City Council - workshop

you you Well, good morning.

Welcome to September and our first Tuesday of the month City Council workshop. The agenda is short. The conversations are not likely to be so short. We're glad you're here today. This is a chance for us to talk about things that are coming up, things that need discussion, just carry on the conversation. We've been talking about many of these things for some time. So I don't know whether we'll reach a final conclusion today, but there is that possibility. So let's start. We've got a capital improvement project update. Ken Snee, Janet Curry, Dustin Jordan.

Good morning, everyone. I missed my original appointment here when my name was announced over here. My name is Ken Snead, director of capital projects. Some of you I've met in passing over here and some of you I will meet as things go on. We have our update today for capital projects. Also in my building, just as we'll get later in the program over here, is housed building maintenance, and I have a manager as well from Parks and Rec. So as all the different capital improvement projects and monies go together, we're all together in one place where we can work on those things. There we go. Okay, we'll go through, and you guys can certainly let me know, we'll go through some completed projects that we've got on here, and if you wanna move on to the ones that are up and coming, we can certainly do that. But we had the Emerge expansion, so that budget was about $1.4 million, which completed in May. That project added seven private offices, small and large conference rooms, a break room, and restrooms to the existing space as they expanded to the space next door down there on 9th Avenue North. Pelican Stadium, another one that was completed. Pelican Stadium was completed in July. There were several portions to this. One was the PDL, the Player Development League that's on there, which is the governing board. tells the minor leagues what needs to be in the ballparks and what needs to happen for those. And then there's an SKA, which is our engineer's report that evaluates the building and what needs to be done to keep that facility up and running and safe for occupants to be in there. Project comments, so I said the two phases, new visitor home, clubhouse, training rooms, upgraded seating and press box. the field, and then the city portion, we had to do some structural repairs to the stadium, and we added all new deck coating to prevent water damage to continue that was in there on the concrete surfaces to upgrade the seating bowl.

Excuse me, so that project is total $2.23 million, is that what we're saying?

For the PDL portion that was completed, yes. And then the SKA report, that's multiple phases that continues after that.

Also, part of that, for folks who may not remember, we had a new lease with a team where they're now paying $850,000 a year in annual rent instead of about 150, which is what it was under the old lease.

So they're paying the debt service on that?

As you recall, we paid, I think, Michelle, correct me when we paid cash for that with the fund balance. Yeah, we wrote a check for that one.

That's right.

And we'll go to fire station three so that budget was 12.65 million, as you can see up here project completion was in July. So that was a three phase process that was out there, which added a standalone fire station and expansion to the existing building for fire department administration and training so they're open and occupy occupied right now, and I think very. few things down, the final bill has been issued and paid for that, so there's only a few minor things that may come up that need to be maintained as we move through that one. Continuing through the restroom program and we'll talk about programs as we get further along through here in Newtown dog park We have the new restroom that was installed over there a budget of four hundred thousand Completed in June when we were here. It's already in and drive by a couple times It's receiving use and those are a great little restroom. That's on there that you guys have figured out to put in these areas and Another one here is Warbird Park plane repainting. So this one coincided very closely with all the other events that were going on at Warbird Park with the new memorial that was in. They were due for their repainting, which is typically every five to six years, depending on the wear and what they need over there. So with the new memorial, the new plane painting and everything else, we've really refreshed that park and given it a good facelift for this year.

Pardon me, can you tell me when the last time we did that was?

I can't, but I can get back to you on that for sure.

That's fine. And was that price about $87,000? That's what I'm curious about, the increase in cost on that. I'm drawing from memory, so don't nail me to the wall on that, but I'm curious about the escalation in cost.

Yeah, I have the people that I can ask for that. It'll just predate me to predict for you on that one. All right, Oceanwood Cemetery. So again, multiple phases to this one over here, but there was an expansion in the fencing projects that are both complete. What we have coming up in January is the roadways. On the roadways after the new building, the fence expansion and about 4,000 graves that have been added to the existing facility, the roadways will now get curbing, chip and tar for a driving surface, and some stormwater drainage to improve that gravel surface that's over there right now.

Ken, can you define chip and tar for us?

Yeah, I can give it my best. Other places, they call them a CADM treatment, so you spread down your recycled asphalt material on there, and then there's a tar material and an oil that goes in there, so it becomes a compacted, wearable surface.

It's not an asphalt that we think of for roads normally?

Not like you would see as you go down the roadway that comes out of a paving machine over there. It's a completely different process that then gets rolled in. Completed also is McLeod Splash Park, a budget of 3.5 million. Completed again in June. So that project, excuse me, added a new splash pad, fencing, and 16 additional parking spaces. Upcoming to there, I think we have another spot that's in the presentation for that, is some replaced parking and new equipment. So we'll leave that until the next presentation comes up. The Stiers Complex. Continuing on with the field replacements, this was fields number eight and nine. Project consisted of the full turf replacement. All synthetic fields are now at the Stiers complex and have been replaced within the past three years. Now we'll jump into what we have as projects in design and upcoming projects. So Charlie's Place new stage is one that we have on tap right now. We do have a budget of $275,000 for that one. This new stage is based on the one that's over at Chapin Park. So we had some older drawings that were on there to put that together. We have that out to our design professionals and they're drawing that for us right now so we can get that as a current project that's ready to put in place. It'll be covered. It'll include electrical connections and services. And then we've also put in with the input from the parks department and events over there, some additional electrical connections that'll go down along the driveway. So when they have special events that are over there, they can house food trucks and they don't have to bring their own power or whatever the vendors might need that's over there. They say whatever loosely we will have provided power for them so that they don't have to bring some with them. And that'll be part of the project and part of the new electrical service that goes on.

Let me ask you, is it possible or are you guys thinking that the stage would be a little more elevated than what we're showing here? And the reason I'm asking, because if you're having something on the stage and you're in the back towards the road, then it's gonna be kind of hard to.

To be able to see down through there. We can actually, certainly as the preliminary drawings and our 50% drawings come out to look at that and see, I think in the bottom picture where you can see where the red square is, that's the most advantageous place to put the stage. We can get the electrical service back there and then it opens up everything to you almost like a baseball diamond so that you can see through the whole green space that's available to you over there.

To Mike's point, typically when they've set up a stage over there, it's three or four feet tall to the floor surface.

Absolutely. So we can look at when these drawings come out, we can evaluate the site conditions and what the planned finish floor elevation is for that.

That's good.

Okay, fire station one is one that's in design right now. Again, multiple phases to that, but it has not been bid out yet. So what we've gone through is we have a budget of 27.7 million for the ultimate build out. Right now we have allocated some money for design. So the two and a half million is what we're working with at this point. Beginning value engineering to evaluate potential cost savings as we now have drawings that are being produced, but right now it's in collaboration with the Coast RTA, so the Regional Transportation Authority has that property that's over there, portions that will be ultimately divided into two parcels. One will be the cities and one will stay over with the RTA, but everything will come over onto the city side of things. There's a shared driveway that connects between the two of them. And like I said, the design documents are progressing in parallel as this goes through while the state is also reviewing it for our access requirements. So we need to move the intersections and put that together. So both parties are still working on their building designs and the site design while the state reviews the Robert Grissom access portions to that.

Ken, do we have a timeline, a possible timeline on when Coast RTA will start its construction?

We don't have for them. There's different phases of the drawings. The fire station one drawings are a little bit more advanced than where they are. But going through right now until we have the final state version of where the accesses can be, I can't predict that right now.

And do we have enough land with what Coast RTA has purchased to do all that needs to be done?

Yes, everything's all been roughed out on there, even more than roughed out. It's a little bit more advanced in the design over there for the buildings, the parking, the circulation, turning radius for the fire trucks, the size of the bays, and all of that's already been determined.

Ken, we know it always takes longer and costs more many times. If this project is at $27,700, And again, I think year one, CPI was at 26 million. I don't know how we marry all the numbers exactly, but say it runs 31 million. Where do we get that extra $4 million, curiously for the audience, for cost overruns?

Cost overrun, I would go there. To try and mitigate that, I would say that with the value engineering that we need to look into going in through this would be one of the keys as well.

Sure. Thank you. As Michelle tries to answer that question, this number does not include the EOC, does it?

No.

no and that was one of the things i was going to mention that you know right before jay left one of the things he talked about in this contract is having some alternates in there so that if the overall bid does come in higher there are some things that maybe they don't finish out or that they take out of the project and i'm sure that's something they would discuss with you at that point and then of course if you need more money for the project it's up to council to direct us to do so and could appropriate it with a motion i would assume hospitality or a tax um

I would be interested in identification of grant funding. Have we been working on that? This seems like a really good project, especially if it includes the EOC, what we are looking for. to supplement that.

As you know, we have a grants manager, and Brooke is always looking for grants and combing through those. Probably the best thing we could get a grant for would be the EOC. But she's absolutely on top of it.

And we continue to look for state proviso money. Hopefully our long-serving state lawmakers can ring the bell for us.

I can't help but ask this question. Looking at what's on the screen right now, how much of that is space that's not usable?

Very little if it's the full build. So on the second floor would be the EOC, the meeting spaces and the operating space there. Downstairs is all fire department operations that's built for their ships, that has the bunk houses and all of their bays.

The center of the building, basically we'll say the center of the building with the glass and all that right there, how much of that area right in there is actually usable space?

I could certainly pull out the plans and look a little bit deeper on there. I'm taking this one over, but I don't know. Couldn't answer you right now right here.

Back to the EOC for a minute. I believe that's planned for the second floor.

Yes.

Does the $27.7 million include the construction of the second floor, or is that a later build cost?

It's a shell space so that everything gets built at the time, and then the interiors would come after that.

Do we have a rough number on what the EOC will be, $5 million, $10 million?

I want to say I'd seen a piece of paper that said 10 when I was researching for this. Anybody else?

Only thing I was gonna add is that the subdivision and the annexation of this parcel is going through the Planning Commission right now and we might have something on your agenda next week or the following, just the second meeting in September.

Second reading, right? We've been through first or? Second meeting. Second meeting, okay. Good on that one. fire station five renovations so keeping in with the renovations to the fire stations they just completed fire station number two and next up is fire station number five so this is a place where everybody lives and works we all know that but similar to this station we've walked it with the design team members of the fire department and identified areas of renovations that need to be updated or improved for their operations inside the facility and we do have that one in with our design professionals right now as well for a design review, design drawings, and we have the budgeted money for this year, so we can go in there for the $475,000, but we'll bid that out once we get our final drawings so we can put that out and see who's our contractor for that. solid waste and new scale kiosk system. I drove by the other day. I see that everything's been hooked up. I think we even saw on the inside voice that they've done their training on that piece of equipment that's over there. So now they can add the second scale, which allows simultaneous inbound and outbound weighing. They added four new kiosk systems, which frees up some of the manpower that's inside the scale house so that customers can record their weights without requiring direct interaction. So very soon to be up and running. I did not get a chance to drive by this morning to see if they're using it, but we're right on the verge of that one being completed for them. And then the theater renovation, which is underway for ongoing projects. So a little bit different project over here. This one bills out at $22.5 million with the capitalized interest included in that one. There's also a $5.1 million tax credit that's set to be done here when we get our certificate of occupancy. So when you do the math coming backwards, then we're at $17.4 million for the entire project that's over there. Our anticipated completion date for final building inspection is the end of this year. And in collaboration with Coastal Carolina, this work continues. Preservation and reconstruction of the three original facades, which you can see over here from the aerial view, will still be maintained so that it looks like the three separate buildings, while inside everything's all brought together as one interior space. And then once we get to our final certificate of occupancy in December, that allows Coastal Carolina to come in and start to do their commissioning, learn the new video systems, the lighting systems, and start to operate the building. We did a walkthrough with them. I think it was about a week ago, week and a half ago. Some of you were there with us that were over there, and Coastal Carolina was there as well. So they've been a partner in this through the whole entire process. So they're there, they're on board with that, and they're ready to start working with the contractor as things come online so they can start to get in there and know their building and start to work with it.

Two questions. Going back to the solid waste, do we have a designated area for electronic and lithium battery type drop off areas? Maybe a Janet question.

It certainly is. I have seen that there's a designated area for the electronics when I've been through there. If you're going to separate out lithium, I would have to get that answer for you. I don't know if there's a separate place for those batteries to go.

That might be a fire department question also.

It could be. There's many segregated areas that are over there, so I wouldn't be surprised, but I do have to get that. One of us could answer you for that.

And another specific question. Maybe in 2023, I ask on the Stiers property, were there restrooms built between fields 9 and 10? Does anybody know?

I believe there was. Where's Tony?

Yes. That's a yes. Yes. Well, the grandparents would be very thankful. Thank you.

Certainly. Okay, up and coming and also in process, ground zero emergency repairs. So while investigating an area of falling brick veneer on the exterior of the building, it revealed deteriorated structural framing members. So temporary shoring has been installed, as you can see on the bottom picture there, to hold the building up for now. We are through purchasing. We have a contractor selected. Permit has been reviewed and issued within the past couple of days. So we'll start with our pre-construction meetings, submittals, so they can get their materials ordered in here. And we'll be over there, and we can start to get that work completed for them. Invention Center Lobby, another ongoing project. This one's at the $21 million budget range. Anticipated completion date is in September of 2027.

Ooh, it's got another whole year to go? Yes, it does.

I don't know that I realized that. I'll just go through the blurb real quick, and then we can ask any questions on that one. Basically, it started out as four phases, and now it's down to three is what the contractor has put it together for. We are in construction on phase one, and they're doing field measurements and ordering material for the second phase that's on here. Working closely with convention center staff and the contractor, exhibit halls have all remained open for events during construction and even with the presidential visit, everything was accommodated for that, everything moved out, no issues, they had access to the space and things worked out well. So like I said, three phases, we're trying to cut it down and then there's some interior stuff as well with the new escalator and different things that go on from a maintenance and upkeep standpoint.

unrelated i think unless it's on the next slide did we end up finally replacing the hvac at the sports center it'll be coming up as a slide absolutely so that that's also through purchasing i don't know if it's the exact next one it is

Okay, so the budget of 2.3 million on their anticipated start date is in October for this one. All of the equipment, this is already gone through purchasing and been awarded. The equipment's already been ordered, and that's what brings me to my start date of October. So that's their ship date from the factory when those four units will be ready to come out.

Was this in the current year's budget or the last year's budget?

It's an emergency repair, so the money's in for...

It's in last year's budget.

So it went through the process, got material ordered, got the engineers went through and specified the equipment. It was about an 18-week lead time, if I believe right, on the equipment. So that, like I said, that's due to arrive here in October. And we've been working with them for the start date to get over there to start with the concrete pads and some of the enabling work so that when these units are ready to ship from the factory here in October, we're there and ready for them.

Has the temperature inside the building continued to be a problem, or have we mitigated that in some fashion?

He's managing it. He's working with it. He hasn't had any floor issues from the last time that I spoke with him, about two weeks ago, but it's an effort on his part to get it pre-cooled in the morning and whatnot, and then hope that it maintains throughout the day. They're doing okay for right now, but they're not running strong.

Could I ask one more question? I see bond counsel in the office, and this is with regard to the Convention Center, and one of y'all that were here might remind me. The $21 million, was that married into an $80 million issuance in my absence? Is that how that went? I don't remember the dollar value, but yeah.

Yeah.

It was, we combined with that bond, we also did $16 million for the downtown. And then there was also a bond refunding. So there were three different issues. We did kind of separate out the refunding so that it could be seen a little bit better. I think it was a refunding on a hotel bond. But yes, it was three different projects.

Okay, and I appreciate council's indulgence. I just, trying to put it together in my absence. Yes, Virgo.

It's not gonna do it, is it? Gentlemen? There it goes.

All right. That's the next slide anyway. It was buzzing in my hand. Another one over here at the Sports Center that now is in this year's budget that's on there is for the patio room renovations. The patio on the rear corner is under or rarely utilized in that space that's over there. By enclosing this space, it'll create additional area that can be used for private parties, vendors, during larger events, and also give them the opportunity to add some power into that space where, I guess when I was speaking with them, they have some vendors that come in for big events that'll make t-shirts, and they have the big irons and whatnot that are in there, and just the general lobby space, they don't have enough power to accommodate that. So that may give them another spot that's over there. And we'll accommodate them for some power so they can add different vendors and vents and use it enclosed within the space. And then one that's on, a newer one that's on the books is the tennis center new facility. So currently right now we're in due diligence that's being performed for a potential new racket sports complex on city-owned land that's adjacent to the sports center. This current program design, what we have right now is a consistent of a small clubhouse that has bathrooms in there, 100 plus parking spaces to meet the code requirement for that facility. 37 tennis courts, that's 36 that are all put together and then one championship court and 12 pickleball courts. That's how it's roughed out right now. Like I said, due diligence, some preliminary meetings with the USTA have been held and we're taking that process from here.

This is a new project that we've come to realize maybe something we'd like to do. It's not in the five-year CIP at this point.

No, this just came up. We're looking into it so we can give some more information and see how we would like to proceed.

It'll be a budget discussion later this year, I hope.

Mayor, is there a seating provision on the championship court surrounding it?

It's kind of what I would call a bubble diagram. It's all just an idea that's right now. But yes, you would assume that for that it would be there because it's a standalone. It's tough to see on here. It's just a sketch that we've roughed out on here. Actually, they showed me a new trick. Hold on a second. Does it work? It's a different pointer.

I think the championship court's in the middle.

It's not. Yeah, you can see it standing alone that's over there.

One of the things I think, the National Tennis Association has certain guidelines for various level tournaments. And so Dustin and his group, along with others, have done their due diligence to see what do we need to actually make this a destination facility for sports tourism. And so one of the things to hold a higher level tournament is to have that championship for it.

And I would assume there has to be a seating component. If you're going to watch a championship game, you need 2,000 or 3,000 seats maybe to do that.

And do we have a rough out cost?

I don't think they're there yet.

Until we really have it, it could vary so wildly depending on what we would put in there. Okay, then upcoming also is boardwalk renovations from Plyler Park to 16th Avenue North. And this would bring the renovations of the existing boardwalk systems forward. So it would be the same plastic recycled material as the current boardwalk and bring ourselves then from where this portion of it ends. And then you can see the picture that I took up there of what the existing looks like right now.

The anticipated start date is a year from now?

This is out, yeah. So we've moved now into the next year out there. So this is right now money that's in the idea for fiscal year 28.

So this is not in this fiscal year's CIP. This is in the next, the year two CIP, if you will. So this is not funded at this stage, correct?

Yep. One of the ones that I wanted to highlight on here too is so inside of our building, like I said, building maintenance is in there with us. We have these CIP programs that are on here. So this is different from your maintenance and repair budgets and what those guys take care of for us. But we know that there's certain things that need to be taken care of over a certain time interval. so what we have in here right now are roof maintenance programs and then each year there's there's an allotment form so we have 95 000 that goes in to this year's roof maintenance program hvac and refrigeration so that could be replacing units anything that comes up with our building facilities that needs to be HVAC-wise. These are all things that we know that are gonna be up and coming that we can put on an annual basis to put money in for so that it doesn't become a big surprise or a big hit to our maintenance and repair budgets on there for the whatever comes up type of issues or breakages and emergency repairs. Generator replacements, one of our other ones, and fire alarm upgrades. Included in that but I gave it its own slide over here is the dune walkover replacement program So again, that's one that each year we put certain monies into Last year we were able to replace 12 walkovers Made many needed repairs to 14 of them and the dune walkovers are constantly being inspected for by our building maintenance team So they have a schedule down pat where the guys are going up and down and checking on them anything that's identified as a hazard We can fix by having this program in place and the more frequent inspections. We can get on some more of the minor repairs or repairs that can be made before one has to be completely removed and put back in. you can see the pictures that i took here that's 78th avenue north that's one of our newest ones that's up there and then the shower has been installed on that one as well so that one's complete and ready to go but to have this program in place then makes it so that it's not wait till something breaks or the call comes in we're on it we know in real time if we can do general maintenance on it then it then it protects that one for later but and i'm getting a lot of good feedback from the folks on the north end about that

they uh not only the new dune walkovers um but the ongoing maintenance of things that need to happen where you don't need to replace it you just need to fix something whether it's a board sticking up or a nail or whatever it might be and i'm getting a lot of good feedback lately from the people on the north end they really appreciate that so i just want to let everybody know that

We've been doing this sort of rolling replacement of dune crossovers for 10, 12, 15 years now. In this coming year's budget, we've also contemplated rolling replacements for street paving, street markings, that sort of thing as well. So we need to keep that constant maintenance in mind and schedule it so that it doesn't come as a surprise.

It gets us out ahead of it for sure. And then the public restroom program, we touched on the one that was just done over at Newtown Dog Park. Again, there's a yearly allocation for these. We have an anticipated start date of March of 27. For the next one that's identified, that's at the Grand Park near the existing picnic shelters.

March of 27, so that's in this year's budget. So that is part of this year's fiscal CIP project. Okay. And I think, again, for the budget discussions in the future, I get the sense that City Council would like to see some of these on Ocean Boulevard, too. Is that a reasonably accurate statement?

Yeah. Okay.

Those are the ones that I had prepared for you today. Any questions we can...

take some notes or try and answer them for you i've got a one larger conversation i want to have but shorter term there was a comment on next door this morning or last night asking about the small playground at grand park and when it will reopen i had to stop and think about where it is i think this is the one just down from the football field is our plan to close that completely renovate that where are we on that

We can, so I can get the answer back from Dustin or he's gonna come up and do a presentation here in a little bit and we can. Okay. When he gets the podium.

And then when we did tour, three of us toured with the CCU president and some staff from the theater program, the new theater, and their first question was, where are we gonna park? Main Street relocation is expected to occur this fall. I don't know when we plan to close the existing Main Street. I don't know that I've seen the current plans for the existing plaza that exists where those two blocks of Main Street exist right now. And that's not funded either. I would be interested in seeing the construction plans for whatever goes into that area that literally is in front of the theater on Main Street currently.

For sure. We've had some conversations on those and I know Janet will be coming up next for a presentation so she can add the portions that she was feeding to me so you can hear it firsthand from that because right now that'll be under public works. That wouldn't be under- Okay.

But I don't think that's funded either at this stage. I don't think that's in a ... That may be in a year two or three CIP, but I don't think ... I know it's not in this one. Okay. um and then i don't know that we need to have this conversation today but i want to put it on everybody's radar if the theater is to be done by december 31st ccu will begin to have access to it they've talked about a grand opening perhaps in february it doesn't have a name at this point correct there are facades that will get some sort of design although as part of the historic Guidelines, we need to use the font or the spacing or something. They generally explain that to me on those facades.

Yeah, there's power provisions that are made for all of those. There are designs that are shown on the drawings. They still need to be run through and approved. Excuse me, and there are guidelines that need to be met for that.

Just for the future, at some point, I guess we have to pick a name for that thing. So y'all be thinking about that. Main Street Theater comes to mind.

Not picking a name has sort of been intentional because, as this has been discussed, we were looking for sponsorship or donations, money to inflow to help offset the cost for the naming rights.

I think the receipt sponsorships, although we haven't We haven't talked about those, if I don't mind. Seat sponsorships are going to CCU. Yeah, they're going to Colson. Okay, those go to CCU at the end of the day, okay. But again, we haven't promoted that opportunity as a real thing, though, either, and the clock is running, finally, on the theater's opening, so just keep that in mind.

As we talk about the 501 Main Street, I think Janet's gonna talk about this, or someone's gonna talk about it. It's also owned by SCDOT, and they're gonna open up the new portion of 501 I don't know, 30, 60, who knows, soon. There's a process, as we learned earlier this year, it just doesn't happen like that. We're dealing with other things, like Fred Nash Boulevard's still DOT controlled, so we really can't do a whole lot until we get it in our control.

But that's where much of the parking will exist to service the theater.

But we also, we got to work with the contractor to get them out of, once they're gone, they'll be out of the back parking lots and that'll free up a lot of spaces as well. A lot of the subs are using the back parking lot right now, which is... A problem. An issue that we're constantly...

And I think Coastal, in conversations on the day that we did the tour, also considering a parking service.

And there's also 1,000 spaces in the pavilion parking garage right across the street that they were unaware of.

And Chad's here. I don't think they're using the top two floors. I wouldn't say there are 1,000. I just know there's 1,000 spots over there. There aren't 1,000 spaces.

Ken, have we had any requests from Coach Wilson with regard to Doug Shaw? as the season starts and everything going well with the visitor's locker room we built last year.

I'll defer back to Tony. They see thumbs up coming from back there. Those phone calls would hit those guys before it made it to my desk.

Everything good then.

Anybody else? Thank you, Ken. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. While that presentation is loading, to answer your question, Dr. Render, about batteries, all the batteries go to the landfill. We do not handle household hazardous waste materials like car batteries or lithium batteries. and you may recall a time or two we had a surprise of a lithium battery making it into our waste stream and unfortunately we had a hot load as we call it that's on fire so all of those materials do go directly to the landfill we do not transport them well i'm just curious about all the golf cart charging overnight you see all over town as we go to these different meetings just it's it's frightening what

could happen, and I don't pretend to understand lithium battery science, rare stuff, but we just need to be proactive. Whatever the cutting edge tech is, we need to be there.

Absolutely, and also communication with Horry County Solid Waste Authority and keeping it in a top of mind for everybody, absolutely.

Who's our rep at Solid Waste? I know we alternate in Conway.

Our representative that works with our team, Monica Vereen, is our solid waste superintendent. And Ed Marr is the assistant director working with Danny.

Our appointed member that On the authority. On the authority.

I think Monica this year, I was last year, she is helping with that. They're rewriting their plan as we speak. And she's helping provide them with information about our system.

Well, I'd just be curious who that is, no rush.

Thank you. Much like Ken's presentation, I'm going to start with some completed projects and roll into some ongoing and then finish up with some future projects for 27. So first we're gonna start off with one that was on the books for a long time and I'm pleased to say that we've completed it. This is what you would call a previous landward improvement for our Fourth Avenue ocean outfall. This was an extension of those improvements, a 30 inch pipe extending from Ocean Boulevard all the way up to Kings Highway and helping relieve the drainage issues, localized drainage issues we would have around the post office. So that was a great project for us and around 1.9 million. The next is a 3rd Avenue North sidewalk improvements, around $709,000, and this was an extension of the sidewalk from Highway 501 down to Broadway Street to provide us with that connectivity from 501 down to the A&I District in Broadway. Road resurfacing, our FY26 was about 2.5, Kind of went out for a minute. Of that, 8.3 miles of road were resurfaced to include city and state roads. And you'll see on the slide that there is a $1 million CTC reimbursement for those state roads that we had. And I will say that I'm proud to say that we came in under budget on the CTC portion of the project. So much so that next Tuesday, if you would like to join me at the old courthouse in Conway at seven o'clock, we're going to be in front of the committee requesting to reallocate those project savings to resurface about six additional state road segments in our community. at around $874,000, so.

Janet, you said this is coming a week from today?

Yes, on the 8th. All right, these next two slides are related to Thunderbolt Path in the Market Common. The first is an extension of the path from the existing pedestrian bridge near Thunderbolt Park all the way up to Emory Road. And the cost of this project was around $651,000. It allowed for the addition of an asphalt path as well as 26 space parking lot. Partial funding for this project was the Arbor Glen PUD in addition to the Myrtle Beach Air Force Base TIF funding. There is an older section of Thunderbolt Path. You probably have seen a lot of back and forth in the last year about resurfacing behind the reserve. That is on for FY27, and we have $290,000 from the Redevelopment Authority contribution to resurface that section of path. So those are some additional improvements that are forthcoming. The next section of Thunderbolt Path is what I like to call the final piece. I know Kelly Mezapelli, when she was here, this was the one thing that she was wanting to finish, to complete the loop around the lake. So this is from, if you can remember where DC Blocks is, where it was unfinished, this was finishing that last segment to go from that location all the way to Ferro Parkway. And... This was constructed with Myrtle Beach Air Force Base TIF funding at around $500,000. All right, the next sidewalk extension is also in the Market Common. It is on Howard Avenue. If you have been to our EOC or substation on Howard Avenue, there was a gap in the sidewalk from the DMV pretty much to the substation. So with the help, again, from the Air Force Base Redevelopment Authority of $45,000, we completed that short 380 linear foot segment. And I will also give a shout out to Buddy and the Redevelopment Authority. Also, they contributed around $47,000 this year also to help us complete 11 additional ADA ramps in Seagate Village. All right, and Warbird Park, the beautiful addition of our Vietnam Veterans Memorial, was completed this year at $1.4 million. Again, a significant contribution from our Myrtle Beach Air Force Base Redevelopment Authority, as well as private donations. And I remember not too long ago, we had the pinnacle donation. So it's a wonderful project that we are proud of in our parks. Ongoing projects. 24th North ocean outfall. The cost of this project is on $44 million. And this phase of the project, call it the ocean phase, are the dual 84 inch outfall pipes that extend into the ocean about 1,300, 1,500 feet. We anticipate this project to be complete by December of 26, so this year, and that includes removal of the construction, temporary construction pier, or construction trestle, as we refer to it as. And the next phase will be additional landlord improvements that I'll talk about in just a few minutes.

let me ask a question it may fit into the landward phase improvements but 24th avenue north has been closed while this work is underway and it comes all the way back to the alley this side of withers withers i think is that alley gonna that alley desperately needs to be repaved is that part of the final piece of this or is that years out into the future on the next phase

So that's on the next phase that is starting actually a little bit later this month. So that section of 24th Avenue will continue to be closed as we relocate the sanitary sewer pump station that is existing in the street end right now to Withers. So that section will be improved at the very end of the project. The whole corridor of 24th from Ocean to Kings Highway.

Will that alley be part of the construction for the horizontal piece of this?

Maybe a portion of it, but majority of the work is going to be on 24th North itself.

I'm just trying to get that alley paved sooner rather than later. Understood. Because it's a moonscape over there in some places.

Understood.

Janet, are you aware of any coastal state that employs its own infrastructure they do it themselves, in other words, their outfalls, their bee tree nourishment. Are there any North Carolina, Virginia, and along the Gulf, any state agencies within those individual states that handle that instead of having to depend on outside folks? And you have 24 coastal state senators in our legislature. It would seem that things might move along a little quicker I hate to say it if we did it ourselves.

I am not aware of any state entities that are actively managing projects or constructing projects. The contractors are specialized for those types of activities. They are involved in the permitting process, so that is where they have their input, but just like with the federal government, with Army Corps, they lean in on contractors to do the beach nourishment. Like I said, there's a select number of contractors that actually do these marine outfall projects and interior dredging projects like for the Intracoastal Waterway. There's just a limited number of those specialties.

Understood. There are 40 trillion reasons we hesitate to rely on the federal government.

Janet, let me ask you, how many pipes are we going to be able to get off the beach doing this outfall?

With this project, we have up to 11. Up to 11? Yes, sir. And that's part of the landward phase is in the beach access, we have what I like to call stub out 60-inch RCP pipes that are sitting there waiting to connect to the future header pipe. That header pipe is going to be running along the coastline and collecting all of those 11 beach pipes that are existing.

The other question I was going to ask you is about how many more do we have in our area of the beach? And then how are we looking to address some of those at some point?

I don't know what's up with that. I'll try to just... Is your book, is your material touching the button? Try that.

push the button there we go un-push the button there we go maybe all right very good learn something new today um so i'll start out by saying we had um well north of 100 beach outfall pipes when we first started with this being our fifth we are probably down into the 50s okay um I will tell you that it would be fantastic to have more. However, economically, it's a challenge financially. I think I've told the council this before, is that this one outfall at 24th costs more than all previous ones combined. So we have to maybe look at alternative approaches moving forward. Thank you. All right, moving on to the ANI district. Again, this project was so well needed. This is one of the oldest sections of our city and includes water, sewer, storm water, overhead, telecommunications and electric to underground, streetscape improvements, all of these things in this one concentrated area. in terms of schedules we're looking at finishing the city services and in front of the parking area by the end of this month and then oak street hopefully by the end of october and with that being said um the phasing for the next sections is uh i think still in conversation with the contractor but we're hoping to have this project wrapped up by spring of 28. and that's at a cost of about 36 million dollars for all of this infrastructure work that we have done All right, moving on to Highway 501 realignment. This was a Ride 3 project that we have familiarity with, and it also is adjacent to all the work that we're doing in the A&I District. With the relocation, we had to relocate our utilities from what is existing, or now it's called To Be Abandoned Main Street. and to reconnect it down Seventh Avenue North. I will say also that as part of this project, we went underground also with the overhead and electric and telecommunications to create that corridor for our visitors and residents in our community. So with that conversation that we had earlier about the abandoned portion of 501 realignment, the project itself is going to be complete hopefully with all the punch list items by SCDOT Horry County by the end of this calendar year, so by December. And then we will start the process by which we are requesting that abandoned portion of road of Main Street to be accepted into our road system. And because we have had some earlier conversations with county and DOT about this request at the end of the project, I am hopeful that it will be a simple, more simple, simpler, quick claim deed from DOT, and hopefully we could have in our possession that section of roadway by March of 27. There we go. All right, so the next project I have for you is our 48 inch water transmission line. We are actively in phase two. That is about 2.4 miles of steel pipe and should be completed by February of this coming year. And this section is taking us from 33rd North to 62nd Avenue North. There we go. And then future projects. Again, we kind of touched on this one already. Happy to answer more questions. It's a combination project at 24th Avenue North to relocate the sewer pump station back to Withers to retreat away from the ocean for an environmental effect. as well as upsizing the pump station, and then also while we have the road open, we are putting in the components that are the landward components for the outfall at the same time to take advantage of the contractor being in that footprint and saving us money. And that's a little over $16 million for both of those projects, and they're divided. about 6.4 for the sewer work and about 9.9 for the stormwater work and we also have a south carolina rural infrastructure authority grant of 1.5 million that is also helping with this project and this will take about a year to complete and of course we have to cross over ocean boulevard so you'll see in the future there'll be temporary closures of ocean boulevard periodically as they have those pipes come across and then 24th avenue north as we spoke of earlier will be closed for a majority of the time between ocean boulevard and king's highway as this work continues All right, moving on to some of our neighborhood projects, Acline Avenue and White Street. That construction project is around $1.5 million, and that is supported by our CDBG funding, and I think we may have grabbed a little bit of drainage just to get us over the top to get that project moving forward. So as you might recall, this is sidewalk improvements in our neighborhoods as well as some drainage improvements. All right. The next is our road resurfacing for 27. And we are in the process of preparing that to bid. We are waiting to hear back from ORECTC next Tuesday. And then we'll be ready to push out a very large project. And when I say large, up to 17.5 miles of road to be resurfaced in our community, which is double what we did this year. So we listened to what council wanted and we are responding and with Michelle and her team's help of combining different resources, reaching out to CTC, we are making it happen. And then the last project I have for you is our Highway 15 multipurpose path. This was, I call it number two on the list, once 79th Avenue multipurpose path was completed, and we are preparing to bid Highway 15 multipurpose path, which is essentially Third Avenue South to Harrelson Boulevard. It's a 1.6 mile project to have the connectivity again in the community linking all of our place making locations in our community.

What's the construction schedule on that?

We are hoping that should go fairly fast once it's bid. So about three months to bid and the team was actually doing a walkthrough this morning of that to get those documents ready. So I would say get some return bids by the end of the year and then just jump on it because it's gonna be asphalt. It'll go a lot quicker than concrete.

Question, Michelle. On this path here, is it going to be where the current sidewalk is now, or is it going to be on the other side of it?

A majority will be where it currently is. However, we had, in order to get DOT approval, we do have to cross Highway 15 near Hewitt Plaza. If you could, you know, you visualize all the, let's call it non-conforming parking that's there. So we have to cross the street there and then tie in from that short segment near 3rd Avenue South.

A way to work that out, I mean, that's only a couple hundred, I doubt it's 100 yards. So you're going to be coming on Highway 15 from 3rd Avenue South. You're going to walk up on the sidewalk or path about 75 feet. And if you want to stay on the path, you'll cross the road. on the other side and get past Hewitt Plaza and then we're gonna come back on the other side of the road and continue on.

Right, it is for a short segment. However, it was the only way we could get a DOT encroachment permit to move this project forward.

Thank you, DOT.

small random question neighborhood watch meeting recently one of the neighbors asked about completion of a little sidewalk segment off swallow i think i have not gone to look at it myself apparently we've read somebody's redone sidewalk there along swallow that may be hgtc it is okay but there's it was described to me as a 30-foot section where the sidewalks did not meet and they asked if we could put those together sure we'll take a look at that

Any other questions? All right.

Thank you, Janet. Thank you.

That's a lot. Good morning. Before we get into McLeod Park, I will answer a few questions that have come up. Dr. Renner, you asked about the plane repainting. The last time was six years ago. That was $87,000. This time it was $120,000. As far as the increase, I can't speak to that other than we're at the mercy of the procurement process. We do bid that project out. Thank you. The Tennis Facility Championship Court that is a 500-seat championship facility for the court. And Grand Park Playground. That playground needs some renovation. We're probably looking at a $500,000 project for the renovation of that playground. I think staff's recommendation for that would be to permanently close that playground, be in its location where it . . .

It's steps away from Savannah's, yeah. I don't have that size children anymore. Is there anything different offered at the playground that's not in use that you couldn't find at Savannah's?

No, there's not. Okay. So unless Council has a desire to renovate that playground, I think our recommendation will be to close that one. All right. McLeod Park Playground. So a few months ago, I presented to you the plans for the McLeod Park Playground renovation. Since that presentation, we have heard some concerns, I'm sure you guys have too, specifically with the removal of the trees inside that playground that it would take to build the new playground. So myself and staff have, and the arborists, have taken a look at the playground, taken a look at the plans and the trees, and we are bringing to you another option for your consideration this morning. this is mcleod park located up on 61st avenue north right off of king's highway a little under a half acre park the blue section you see there is where we uh we installed the splash pad the western side of that is the the current playground and the parking area All right, so here's the tree inventory for McLeod Park. There are 16 total trees in the park. Seven of those fall within the current fenced playground area. Four of those are on the west end of the park, so if you're familiar with the park, that's where the parking area is. Five of those are on the east end of the park, kind of in the splash pad area. The important thing to note on this slide, they're in red but you can barely see them, the arborist has identified four of those trees that are in decline. Two of those fall in the playground area, two of those fall on the western end near the parking. So our recommendation for those four trees, regardless of what we do with the playground or if we leave the current playground, there are four trees that need to be removed regardless because they're in decline, they're dying. um so this is option one that was presented and approved a few months ago option one is a fully inclusive destination playground i think what i said then was think of a mini version of savannah's playground that's exactly what it is option one does require the removal of all the trees within the fenced playground area That is about a $2.4 million playground, which is budgeted in this year's CIP budget. Parking will be an issue with option one. I'll go ahead and put that out there. We have concerns with parking. Option two is the new option that we've come up with with the playground company. Option two is also a fully inclusive playground. This would not really be considered a destination playground. It would be more of your neighborhood park playground, but it is indeed fully inclusive. With this playground, would not have to remove any additional trees other than the ones that we've identified that are in decline and need to be removed anyway one thing about this playground because of its smaller footprint we will also be able to add additional parking down one side of the park so you will be able to get additional parking in with this playground as well this playground is about a 1.4 million dollar playground so also a significant decrease in the the funding for that so really that's uh that's what we've got what we're looking for today is just some direction um on where you guys would like us to go with this project i think since this is located in a neighborhood i much prefer going with the neighborhood park um and leaving the trees i completely agree with you i think option two is a better I will say that is staff's desire at this point as well. I think option two is the better option.

I agree. Sounds pretty easy.

All right. $1.4 million, I agree. Thank you, guys.

Anything else on the CIP side of life?

I don't think so. Before we move on to the next one, though, I think there's been a request. We have like a five-minute break.

Yes, we've had that request. We're going to take a five-minute break, and let's see if we can keep it to five minutes, come back at 10, 11, 10, 12. Sorry, math is not my thing.

10, 15, 10, 20. Math is not your thing.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. you Thank you. Thank you. you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, we're running a couple of minutes longer, but thank you for your patience. Thank you all for being here today. This may be the most unassuming agenda item I've ever seen, TDF discussion with large potential results and effects. So TDF discussion, where are we beginning with this, Michelle?

Good morning.

Good morning.

You know, we spent a lot of time during the budget retreat talking about the TDF. So what I want to do is just sort of recap what we talked about during the retreat. A big part of that discussion was how the tourism development fee revenue has not matched the growth in our tourism development credit. This is just sort of a history. If you look at that, you can see that since inception, the tourism development fee revenue has basically doubled where it was. The 80% that went to the Chamber has doubled from the beginning. And if you look at the tax credit that we give to our homeowners, that is considerably more than doubled over that time frame, like 3.7 times. What that's done is led to a situation where we don't have enough revenue from the TDF coming to the city, that 20%, to cover the tax credit that we give our residents. Now, we did remedy that in our 27 budget, but we recognize that this isn't sustainable. We've got to look at something and make some changes going forward. Also here, these are just some other numbers and a graph to kind of show you how those numbers have changed over the years, how rapidly they have grown. The chart over here with the stars on the side, they show years that we were actually in a deficit in our general fund because of the growth of the 4% property compared to the TDF. And this chart just really demonstrates again that variance between the two if we continue on the path that we're on today.

For the public's benefit, the increase in the amount devoted to the credit is due to two or three factors. The new number of homes that have been constructed within the city limits during that time period, inflation and the general rise in the value of homes during that time period, and then attached to both of those would be the fact that during and after COVID Myrtle Beach, the MSA here was the fastest growing MSA in the country. So we welcomed literally thousands of new residents just inside the city limits. In fact, over that time period, in addition to building thousands of new homes at a higher home value for those newcomers. So it's not just as though Oh, the credit doesn't fit because the credit was stable along the way or the circumstances were stable along the way. The circumstances changed significantly along the way.

Right, and we all know that during COVID, a lot of the folks who had second homes here decided to make those their primary homes, and that also impacted that credit.

Looking at that graph, it occurs to me, does that include the effect of Act 388? Yes. It contemplates that those properties which have been owned for more than five years are capped at a maximum 15% growth in value?

Yes, it does. It absolutely does, yes. Those charts really are from the MuniCap study we had done. All right, so just to sort of recap, from 22 to 26, 80% of the TDF has funded 33 to 36 million annually for the Myrtle Beach Chamber of Commerce. And with regard to the city's tourism revenues, between that same period of time, our hospitality and accommodations tax revenues have been used to cover 56 to 61 million annually, and those are allocated to tourism-driven operating and capital costs. Some of the tourism-related projects that you heard this talked about just this morning in the previous two presentations. I wanted to just sort of point out some of the things that we are doing, we have done, and we are doing with our own tourism revenues, the hospitality and ATAGs. The boardwalk renovations, we talked about those to come, the tennis center. sports center improvements, youth fields, 12 at Grand Park, that's really for like 29, but that's still a $10 million project that we're looking to do. Doug Shaw track and field enhancements, Ocean Boulevard resurfacing, Myrtle Beach Convention Center, the baseball stadium renovations, the ongoing downtown redevelopment projects, and we've just at this last meeting talked about the incentive and vacant building grants. I bring this up just to talk about the things that we are doing here in the city of Myrtle Beach to enhance our product.

So Michelle, when I looked at this list, one thing that strikes me in conversations that Bill and Mark and I have been having with the chamber, as we look to an adjustment in TDF, I think that it's gonna be really important that the money that we reinvest in capital improvements be inspirational, be change-making projects, that aren't resurfacing roads, et cetera. So one of the things I think that is gonna be really important as we see an adjustment is, and I don't know a better time to bring this up, but an establishment of a commission, a committee, much like Ride 4 has a committee, that we would have a committee made of city residents, specifically those invested in the tourism industry to make recommendations to the city on how we would invest that in the future. I just wanted to put that out there for everybody, kind of how I was feeling about that. So when I saw this, I was like, okay, I understand these are things that we've done, but resurfacing of roads, we heard an update from Janet about roads, and that should be included in those kind of things. So I just wanted to bring that up.

Absolutely agree with you. From my chair, when I look at the things, we're often talking about building things. And that's great for that committee, but we have a lot of things we also have to take care of. It might not be just for resurfacing the field, but when you've got to invest 20 to 25 million dollars in a convention center, I mean, that's just as impactful for our tourism as well. So I'd like just for that to be kept in mind when we do talk about transformational or important projects that are coming up to add new. We have a lot here to take care of every day that are in existence right now and that are bringing and serving tourists today.

I hear Debbie and appreciate that point of view. The final form of whatever that little group is hasn't been decided, obviously. And it would be a public body, I think. Well, it would be a public body at the end of the day, too.

So I agree with Dr. Conner about transformative projects. But as Michelle pointed out, a lot of it is what we need to be doing on an ongoing basis. When you think about tourism, the look and feel of the city is very, very important. And while, yes, we have put millions of dollars into the Arts and Innovation District, we have to focus on, as Mark has said, forever now on a whole city approach. How we look, how tourists see us, that creates their image of who we are, and that's what brings them back. I mean, when you think about it, you know, based on just studies that have been done, including from the Chamber of Commerce, but we are a drive-to destination, when you think about it. We are a drive-to destination. And people come here for a reason, but we're also seeing, based on the numbers I've been running, we're starting to see, rather than an increase, a decline. And I think part of the reason for that is how Myrtle Beach appears to the visitors that are coming here. And the other part of this, too, is we need to also focus on not only who is our customer today, but we need to focus on who's going to be the customer five, 10, 15, 20 years down the road. And what my generation grew up and enjoyed about Myrtle Beach, I can guarantee you. It's not what my grandchildren's idea of it is. So, it's a bigger package. than just who gets a split of whatever it's gonna be. My two cents. What Bill said.

And I've also asked for a landscaping plan. Again, as I've stated, the Market Common looks nice, Grand Dunes look nice. The center part of the city could stand some improvement. And I think the business community would agree with that sort of sentiment. So we need a landscaping plan to make those changes to upgrade that sort of thing.

Can you go back at the slide for a second? Excuse me just a minute, Mr. Meyer.

Sure.

I don't disagree with anything you guys are saying. But our brand, I've said this a number of times now, our brand is not a T-shirt. Our brand is not what's on a ball cap. What our brand is, is truly what people see. One of the things is what people see when they come to Myrtle Beach. Now, roads and sidewalks are important. But the other thing people see is how property looks. And there are areas of our community that in our main roads and our boulevard, Highway 17, that properties need to be improved. And when you look, and just like a friend of mine did this, I shared it with all of you, when you drive down the boulevard And he presents 26 photographs. And of those 26 photographs, all of these areas are properties. And some of those properties belong to City of Myrtle Beach. So if you're talking about wanting to improve our brand, two things will improve the brand. One is how our city looks when people come here. But the other thing is what I do agree with what Bill said is If you look at other areas, they're always creating something new for someone to do when they come to their area. I think that's something that we're trying to look forward to today. Is there something else? Is there something new? Is there something that's going to cause people to want to come to Myrtle Beach other than what they've been seeing, what they've been doing for the last longest? That is also a very important part of how the brand in Myrtle Beach is. And the third thing is we do have to determine. A friend of mine keeps telling me this all the time. He said, you know, I've lived here in Myrtle Beach all my life. And he said, you know what I think? I think Myrtle Beach has a problem determining who their customer really is. And so those are three things that I think if we want to focus on, that's it.

and what Mike said too. We do focus on property maintenance along the way, but I think the city should probably set the example. Our properties should look as good or better than what we expect out of the private sector at the end of the day. Go one more forward. On the second bullet there, the 56 to 61 million annually, The hospitality fee generates 20-ish million. Accommodations tax is 12-ish.

14, depending.

So that's 34.

Your hospitality tax generates 26 to 27. Okay, so that's more than. The hospitality fee has been 16 to 17. And then you have the accommodations tax at anywhere from 12 to, we've seen as high as almost 15.

I was skipping one. That's what I wanted to know. Okay, thank you.

So with all that being said, that brings us into the discussion I know you all wanted to have. I just put some bullet points on here, challenges, opportunities, if you will. Growth in the 4% households exceeding TDF growth, we know that. We have a growing need for investment in tourism infrastructure, both existing and new infrastructure. There's a dependence on Myrtle Beach tax revenue to fund advertising for the entire Grand Strand area. The current climate against earmarks is working against us. I know, Phil, you talked about getting more money. Right now, that's a whole lot harder than it was a couple years ago. Doesn't mean we won't try, but it's harder. And then we need to identify other revenue sources to support the tourism economy in Myrtle Beach.

Along those lines, I would only say I think the latest tranche was $300,000 the $300 million available for local projects in Columbia in the proviso budget, and although it does appear that mode of funding has fallen out of favor, I would be surprised it will ever go away unless you have an unusual year when the Senate Finance Chairman says no more. Those years do happen, but the point is we need to keep vigil in our effort to try to secure those state monies. I would just say, Thinking back, and most of you folks would remember this, back in 2009, Brad Dean stood in front of this council trying to convince us that this was the way to go, which we agreed with. But at that time, members of council said, Mr. Dean, no property tax credit for our, at that time, 6,000 families, no TDF. And so what we've tried to do over the years is strike a balance between the needs of our citizenry and the needs of our tourism economy, which drives the bus. And that's why we're here, and that's where we want to get to arrive at a positive outcome to this. There are no enemies in this game. We're all in this battle together, and it's for economic survival, particularly in these times, of our state and city with the federal challenges we face. So again, there may be three cents, Mr. Lowder, but that's kind of my broad view of things and we're here to find solutions.

Do you have questions or do you just want to discuss them?

Well, stick around for a minute. Let me see if I can frame the challenge and the opportunity that exists for us at the moment. State law back in 2009 created the tourism development fee. three counties, municipalities in three counties only in South Carolina currently are allowed to use the TDF because they meet the more than $14 billion in accommodations tax collections countywide. We're the only city in South Carolina that takes advantage of the tdf this conversation probably should have been had five or six years ago we went in another direction it's up now in part because one of the low country lawmakers said hey we'd like to be able to use this revenue source but not at the 80 20 split that currently exists which prompted us to seriously have a conversation with the chamber of commerce in our business community the 80 20 as I've said out loud, really doesn't work for the whole community at this point. As you point out here, and as Debbie and Bill and I have all said, we're funding the advertising for all of the Grand Strand, which is nice, but it's not fair necessarily at the end of the day. So, if we are able to go hand in hand with the Chamber of Commerce and the business community to Columbia and our lawmakers with a proposal that still achieves the original goals of the TDF, provides additional funding for tourism related infrastructure because we have opportunities which are upon us to improve our tourism economy with the redevelopment of the pavilion site sooner rather than later, potential redevelopment of the Myrtle Square Mall site at a farther timeline and other things that are coming to us to make the Myrtle Beach of tomorrow we need to look at how to revisit that 80-20 split in a way that doesn't cause great harm to the advertising that the Chamber does, but also allows us to continue providing a decent, reasonable property tax credit and then most importantly gives us a slice of money that we can use for tourism-related capital projects to take us into the future to improve our brand, to do the things that we've all talked about doing here the last couple of minutes. So we've been chatting. The Chamber said, hey, come sit at the table. And Bill and Debbie and I went to sit at the Chamber's table to talk about possibilities. that nobody was happy probably indicates we were having a great conversation. I think we are of a mind though that we can reach an agreement that will benefit the whole community and maybe have a plan that we can take to our lawmakers here and then the lawmakers in Columbia and also encourage other jurisdictions, at least here in Horry County, to consider the possible benefits that a TDF would give them, not just for the advertising piece, not just for the property tax piece, but also especially for the tourism related infrastructure piece.

Did I leave anything out of that? You got it.

Okay. So after much backing and forthing, we received an email from Stuart the other day, Stuart Butler from the Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce. I think everybody has compromised a little bit, which is always somewhat painful. Unless you've got questions for Michelle, I would ask Stuart to come forward and chat with us a little bit at this point. Stewart. I will also say that Matt's not here today because he is playing in the World Amateur Golf Tournament with family members who came to town specifically for that purpose. I saw Matt at the convention center last night. I did the welcome for our 3,000 amateur golfers who are here this week to play in the World Am.

The largest amateur golf tournament in the world and the largest 19th hole.

48 states represented 19 countries ages 17 to 93 are playing.

Wow. And the world's largest 19th hole.

Emphasize that.

100,000 square feet.

Thank you for having me here today. If you'll indulge me for a second, I wanted to say a couple of things, and then I'm happy to answer questions. TDF was created almost two decades ago now, coming around, at a time after the market crashed. This was sort of 2007, 2008, housing crash had happened. And we were struggling. We knew that tourism was our biggest industry and it drove the entire economy. And so the business community came together and said, we need to put more investment into promoting this destination and building up this destination. At the time, this region... received about 12 million visitors a year, and our economy was a lot smaller than it is today. I think it's, without any hesitation, I would say TDF has been really effective and transformational for our entire economy, regionally, not just the city of Myrtle Beach, to your point. I will push back a little bit. There is other funds that promotes the rest of the Grand Strand. There's money from the state, about $10 million a year. There's money from hospitality fees and ATACs throughout the Grand Strand. So TDF is driving about 60% of the regional tourism economy in terms of promotion, and considering Model Beach gets a good share of the actual revenue, I think it's fair, but we could ask our friends around Lurie County to invest a little more, for sure. Since its inception, we're now at over 18 million visitors a year. It's grown over 50%. The revenue has certainly exceeded anything we expected. It isn't just going to promotion, though, right? It's going to things like the World Am Handicap. It helps to fund that. It's going to air service. It's going to filling our convention center, which, by the way, we do need to invest in that convention center, Bill. We're booking it out through 2033 right now. We need more convention center space. So TDF has unequivocally worked for us, continues to work for us, but we're in a different position. I think we've looked at the gap now with the tax credits, primarily driven by growth in the value of homes, more so than growth in the number of residents. And I'd say that's another testament to the fact that this region has blossomed under TDF. So it has worked. It continues to work. But I think now is the right time. The business community believes now is the right time to evaluate it. It's easy for folks in the public to look at the number of TDF. It is significant. Over $45 million a year is a lot of money. I'd like to contextualize it a little bit, you know, because we're not fighting for our economy in isolation, we're competing against other destinations. When we look at how much we currently invest in tourism promotion relative to our size, the number of hotel rooms we have and the number of visitors we have, we're investing a little over two dollars per visitor. That's not a lot of money. It's actually less than Charleston. It's less than Daytona. It's less than Panama City Beach. It's less than Virginia Beach. So yes, it's a large number, but we're the number one beach in the country for leisure travel. We should be investing a lot in ensuring that that economy continues to grow, not just to benefit ourselves here, but also the state. We send 40% of all of the tourism dollars to the state, 40% right here from the Grand Strand. So we want to be cautious, but we want to be pragmatic, right? We want to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and do something with unintended consequences. Now, with that being said, we are all in favor of diverting some of the promotional funds to product development that is tourism related to Councilperson Connor's point earlier. Things that are going to grow the economy. I would say Convention Center would fit. I would say transformational attractions would fit. I don't think paving roads gets a lot of votes from the folks in the business community. But we're open to discussing that. We're definitely here at the table in good faith, ready and willing to answer your questions. The final thing I'll say is folks say, well, if we didn't promote the destination, people would just still come. This is Model Beach. It's amazing. They're right. It is great. And some people would still come. But not everyone. We can empirically measure that the TDF drives more than $1.5 billion to this economy, directly measure this incrementally every year. So to do too much too soon could be catastrophic. And to those of you that have gone through elections, Draw an analogy. Folks would vote for you regardless, right? But if you didn't promote, if you didn't put out yard signs, if you didn't show up to conversations, if you didn't promote yourselves, fewer people would show up to vote for you. And tourism is no different. So we wanna make sure we make an intelligent, informed decision on TDF, one that doesn't hurt the 30 plus thousand people that live here, the more than that that work here, that depend every day on tourism. And don't forget, tourism is driving tourism revenue, but it's also helping to pay for our penny sales tax for our roads, our penny sales tax for our education. It's helping with the hospitality and the A-tax fee for these fire stations, police stations, our first responders. So tourism matters, and we just want to make sure we do something that's forward-thinking and is impactful in a positive way without causing any unintended consequences. Happy to answer any questions.

And we would agree with you, I think. Is that an accurate statement?

Well said.

And if we are able to invest in the brand, improve the quality of our offerings here, we would expect that all of those fees that are related to tourism, all of those revenue streams related to tourism would increase, which would provide some additional money for advertising, some additional money for infrastructure projects, and some additional money for our property tax credit as well.

And that would be the lens we would recommend. Any project we're gonna invest TDF dollars into, is it gonna grow the economy or preserve the existing revenue? I think maintenance to some of the sports facilities would certainly be a part of that, but also expanding the sports facilities. Same with the convention center, same with major attractions incentives for things like that too.

So how do you feel about a tenant center?

Yeah, I think, again, Debbie was right, and it was mentioned earlier, we've got to look at what makes the most sense. I mean, obviously, there's been a lot of conversation recently about the local groups that want to play tennis and some facilities going away. And so it's a hot button. I don't think we want to rush into it. I think that the data is pretty clear on what types of facilities will attract tourism en masse. And so I think we've got to really look at that. Is it clay courts versus asphalt courts? Is it 14 versus 30 courts? These details will matter. If we really want to compete on a national level and attract folks, especially in the off season, we've got to make sure that the programming of that facility is right, and maybe we need to spend a little bit more in order to ensure that the revenue coming back is a good ROI.

We haven't priced that out. I was attempting to be funny, so I appreciate the very serious answer you gave to that question, so thank you.

But those are the kind of questions we would love to have, or answer, and the conversations that we'd love to have. I think the idea of having a group that is, ultimately, city council should have the final say on how the public's money is invested, but I think having input from a larger group of stakeholders would make a lot of sense.

Can you encapsulate any alternative revenue stream sources akin to the TDF, a fee as opposed to a tax? What in the mechanics of South Carolina government now is available, if anything, that we can employ or explore

Yeah, some of them are voluntary, some of them mandatory, but similar to the MID that's in place, there are things called TIDs, Tourism Improvement Districts, that we could explore. We actually have Civitas right now doing an analysis on what is legal in South Carolina in terms of the current law. The reality is TDF is very unique. There's a reason that it was created the way it was, there's a reason only the City of Model Beach right now is using it, because it was designed very specifically for that moment in time for this community. And so most of the other options are taxes, not fees, and we're already at the top of our tax stack for accommodations, so fees would be the only option if we're gonna add something, or voluntary fees which would require buy-in from the business community.

Thank you. So we started with a ballpark. You all started with a ballpark. And we've moved towards a central position.

Yeah.

I would encourage council to look favorably upon the place at which we've arrived. I'm thrilled that the business community has moved as well. We recognize that this is a unique problem, gift, opportunity for Myrtle Beach and Horry County to have this sort of conversation. Nobody else is doing this. So we really do have a chance to shape not only our future, but the future of the rest of the state potentially. And if I can speak for you, I will. If not, I'll let you do it. The Chamber, after much discussion, we met three or four times with your group, four times, I guess, has come to, rather than an 80-20 divide, they would accept a 60-40 divide, something that still has to go to Columbia, still has to be approved by the lawmakers there. But it is something that I think, I would hope, we can all be comfortable with and take with smiles on our faces to our delegation and then to the larger legislators in Columbia.

Yeah, so we've come a long way. And there were some folks in the business community that were, don't touch this under any circumstances. It's a mistake and it risks it all going away in Columbia. And I hear that. And I think it's something we need to take very seriously. I think the only way we can as a community go to Columbia and ask the legislator to make a consideration for a change is to go with one unified voice. And so the staff at the Greater Myrtle Beach Collaborative, Visit Myrtle Beach, Chamber of Commerce, have been working really hard with our business community to educate folks, to get people to understand the potential here. I think 60-40 could work, right? But the details matter. And I think what I've said to you all is important to look through each one of those and consider them in good faith. 60-40, candidly, is lower than I wanted to go initially. You know, I'm a data nerd at heart, and there's a lot of data out there that says it's over a $9 million gap. reduction in promotion. That will have an impact. So we've got to look at how do we mitigate that? How do we overcome that? Some of that is in the product that will be developed. If we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to build some transformational attractions here, especially on the Pavilion site, that will not only bring people, but will redefine the brand of Myrtle Beach, to Mike's point earlier. I think we're on board with that and we understand the long-term positive impact. So what I'd send to you guys is the opportunity in front of us is to get to 60-40, but the details matter. And then we can go, the real hard work begins then, is going to Columbia and convincing everyone around the state that this is good for the state of South Carolina, not just Bermuda Beach, which it is good for the state of South Carolina. Ultimately, my belief is if we can come to this agreement, we'll be sending more tax dollars to the state to reinvest in the great state of South Carolina.

Stuart, if you would speak to where that journey begins with regard to Columbia. Does it begin in House Ways and Means? Does it begin in Senate Finance? Of course, it begins with our local.

Yeah, I think it begins with me talking to Jimmy Gray because he's more of an expert on that than me. You know, there's a lot more. A lot of folks that are way smarter than I am on the legislative side. I'm a data nerd, like I said. People, I still don't understand people. So what I would say is we have a conversation between staff here, staff at the Greater Myrtle Beach Collaborative, with our lobbyists, with your lobbyists, and with our local delegation, and then we sort of devise what is the approach. This is public conversation now, so I'm sure the media's gonna be all over it. So we're gonna have to move quickly. to ensure that we tell the right story, that we educate folks that maybe have some misinformation and that we come away with something that I believe will ultimately be very positive for the Myrtle Beach area.

I think we no doubt want to do it right as opposed to doing it quick. It just has to be right out of the gate. Yep.

Jimmy and I had an opportunity to meet with both our lobbyist, Scott Talley, and the lobbyist for Myrtle Beach Collaborative and had a really great conversation in regards to first coming to an agreement and then how we approach our delegation. And that's gonna be critical is the support of our delegation and... I think that we're trying to be on their agenda for September 15th, a delegation meeting, so we can provide an update and disinformation. But this conversation had to happen first. And I think that they're, Stuart, what you said, it's all in the details, and I think There have been some conversation individually around the bullet points regarding the 60-40 and expectation that the chamber has in regards to that. And I think there's a little bit of disagreement on some of the bullet points that need to be ironed out.

Yeah. And I would say, you know, there's still disagreement in the business community. What I was saying was voted on by the Greater Middle Beach Collaborative Board last Thursday. It was, you know, so don't shoot the messenger. But it was the closest we could get to a consensus. You know, some of those specifics are in there for a reason. Um, we wanted the business community to be unified in this. Not everyone was on board. Like I said, there's still folks that feel like 80, 20 is the right number and we shouldn't touch it because it's working and, and we risk everything. So I think what I sent you in good faith is, is, uh, how we could get to consensus. We ended up having a unanimous vote on our board, which I was shocked at. And so I want to make sure you guys really take those seriously. They were well thought out by the business community and they're there for a reason.

Two things quickly. One, we have the opportunity to lead the conversation in Columbia. That may not have been the case had we not been able to reach some sort of general agreement on how best to move forward. The conversation could have gone on without us. And then two, I think we all would like to be able to say that the fee would no longer have an expiration so that we could effectively bond the $10 million or so that will be available for tourism related capital projects. The sense I get is that that may not fly in Columbia. We might have that conversation, but at the end of the day, we may not be able to make it in... That was not recommended by our... That's not been recommended. So that...

they that that's something we'd like to do that was on your list because it's something we like to do but i'm not sure that it will fly at the end yeah i i still believe we should explore it i think the the the way it should be worded is that it could be uh removed in the same way it's enacted you know so right now it can either be a two-thirds vote or super majority of city council or a referendum and i think if we can at least have the conversation around whether or not the expiration would depend on the same mechanism. But if we're being told by the experts, that's a no-go, then obviously that's a no-go. But you're right, we put that in there at your request.

Correct. And I think there's some merit in at least having that conversation because we're the only ones who are using it at this point. So it doesn't affect anybody else except Myrtle Beach, and Myrtle Beach would seem to be inclined to keep the fee in perpetuity if it works for us.

Anybody else? I think at the end of the day, I mean, yeah, there are a lot of details and they're very, very important. But I know council recognize and I really feel the business community recognizes that We do need this extra money coming in specifically for tourism-related capital improvement projects, specifically for that, if we're gonna move forward. It's just not gonna come from any place else. The other part of it is that I hear about we're gonna approach Columbia and everything else, but when you think about it, just in a very level way. What we're talking about, and I think Mark has used this a lot, is rebalancing, rebalancing the TDF to help us do what needs to be done today. I understand that almost 20 years ago, the creation of TDF, I understand what it has done. But as you and I have talked about, right, What was needed 20 years ago and the reasons for it and the emergency to do it, that's not today. You and I have talked about in certain areas of promotion, not all areas, but what we could buy in terms of digital marketing three years ago for a dollar, we now can buy it for 70 cents. Certainly there are other areas that have increased. But the point simply is we do need to rebalance it. The product needs the money for capital improvement projects that are specifically related to tourism. And it really is, at the end of the day, it really is that simple. That's what's gonna drive us forward.

Yeah, we agree. That's why we're here.

I think we both moved toward the middle. I think at the middle we can smile and shake hands and take to our lawmakers and then the lawmakers in Columbia the details are something we can continue to chat about it would be nice to have this before the legislature next year um the tdf is due for renewal in 29 i believe so implementation of a revised split could occur upon approval in columbia upon renewal there are some some clocks that we have not determined how they'll run yet but on behalf of the city and the business community here you know we thank you for understanding the the needs that the city feels for this fee um but also i would say that we understand the need to promote our destination and continue the advertising advertising runs the world it just does continue the advertising that we do on behalf of the community mark beyond beyond our local scope here i think it's important that we realize what's going on on a national perspective also

I know these gentlemen know what a long bond is, but the 30 year bond is at the highest interest rate in two decades. And the reason for that is inflation, government debt, and also the build out, the crowding out of borrowing capacity by hyperscalers building these big centers to compute. So we need to look at the broad picture too to do whatever we can locally to mitigate what's going on up the line, not just in Columbia, but in Washington, too. So I think it's farsighted for this group to get together and render their opinion as the best way for us to survive in a small way. I mean, this is just very important. And I don't mean to talk in such dire terms, but there are greater things we need to look at other than our just local economy.

I also want to thank Stuart and Matt and Jimmy and their staff for leading this conversation. I certainly want to thank the Collaborative Board for giving it serious consideration and for the unanimous approval of the proposal.

Also, I see two folks that sit in the group with us, both Patrick Norton and Mayor Jerram. Thank you for your work on this as well.

We have a large cross-section of the business community here. I don't want all of you to speak, but if there's one or two of you who feels compelled to speak at this point, we'd be happy to hear from you. Patrick, Mark, Mayor.

Charlie's going to be quiet. Charlie's going to be smart today.

Let me say this real quick. I don't know if this is in closing or not, but I'll just say this, that this has been a prime example of how you can bring two ends far apart to bring them to a point where some folks feel it's not the best deal, but I've got to tell you, All the time, what I look at is where can we get to have a deal that works? And that's called compromise. And I think what's on the table right now is relatively close. I think there's a couple things that need to be discussed. But overall, it's as close as I've seen since the discussion started. I mean, really and truly, we've come a long ways. And I think that's taken both sides here, so to speak, to come to the table and be willing to, other than just stand with that line drawn in the sand, to try to move the ball forward. And I appreciate all everyone in the room's effort so far. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you all. I really appreciate it. And in that spirit, you know, we really do ask humbly that you look at those points and even if they maybe give you a little heartburn, you know, consider them that the business community has been a lot on this and beyond where I thought we could get them. And so really please take a hard look at that and, and we hope that you can find a way to agree to it. And at the end of the day, I think we all agree that this isn't the city's money, this isn't Visit Model Beach's money, this is the community's money. And so I think we've gotten to a point where this money is being invested to improve the quality of life for every resident in the Grand Strand. So we're happy with where we are. So hopefully you'll bless it and we can move on to Columbia.

Great. And again, on behalf of council, our residents, thank you for the serious consideration that we've been through. Thank you to the business community for recognizing the city's needs and positions on this. I think we both moved again towards the middle and hopefully have found a place to land. Thank you, Stuart.

Thank you, Stuart.

Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Thank you, Stuart. Oh, and Patrick, remember page two.

Okay.

excellent well thank you it's 11 o'clock 1101 council member districts and wards discussion i don't know that i anticipate i don't know that i don't know that i anticipate any lengthy conversation about this but i didn't want it to fall off the table and not come back Apparently, it is something you all discussed last year when I wasn't seated here. Just a general let's not forget about this as a subject sort of thing. Does somebody want to start, Bill?

Yes. We had talked about earlier about putting out for the public. the concept of voting wards or districts. We have a lot of sentiment around the city that this is something that we should really take a look at. My vision on this is that we form just in a few months, before we get to the first of the year, a number of seminars to take it out to the city where people can come in. We would do the research, probably bring in the Municipal Association of South Carolina and talk about what it's going to take to basically change our form of government in this way. What are the pros and what are the cons? Because it's not as simple as people think. And then to understand if that is something that people want, we put it on a ballot, we put it on a referendum, we vote for it. If it's approved, the understanding then needs to be that it's not going to happen in two months. It's going to happen in a couple of years because of all the things that need to be done. So the short notes are we had asked Michelle to put a couple of bucks away so that we can finance these seminars around the city. And I'm not just talking about at a neighborhood watch meeting where 30 or 40 people show up. I'm talking about our bigger venues where literally hundreds, 150, 200 people can show up so we can get the message out. I still continue to get... requests every day when is this going to happen and so this is how we make it happen we take it out to the public and we explain it to them and then we put it on the ballot assuming the council wants to do that it'll be at the will of council but we put it on a ballot we put it on a referendum

And that would be my recommendation. The public needs to decide this, not us. The public needs to say this is the way we want to elect our representatives on city council. And I believe we have to be neutral when it comes to favoring a position if it goes to a ballot measure. We can't say, oh, this is the one we like or, you know, We don't want to do that. I think we have to be completely neutral at the end of the day in terms of our presentations to the public. But rather than council decide to move forward, I think we should have that conversation among the city, among the populace, and then if they're interested in making a decision, let the public make a decision, as you suggest, with a referendum probably next year, if we can make that happen at that time.

And so I would ask that staff take a look at scheduling now to where we can host these seminars. I don't know that I'd call it a seminar, but an informational session. Yeah, whatever we would like to call it, an informational session. And then there will also be, and we need to recognize, suspect most of this will be done in the evening hours and so then we have to look at staffing what the what the whole package is going to take do we need to do any printing do we need to have handouts that type of thing but I would ask staff to start to take a look at that I'd like to see it start before the end of the year we may have to take it into maybe the first month or eight weeks of 27, but we need to get this out. And so people have a time to understand the information that's being presented to them.

Again, I wasn't part of the conversation last year, but I gather there are a couple of three options probably that could be considered.

There are. I don't think we need to go into that detail right now. No, I agree. I think where we need to be is just, let's just keep this thing simple. If our residents decide that they want to take that route through the referendum, then we have, after that, we have an opportunity to determine whatever that may look like. But I don't think we need to be Talking about all of that. Agreed. At this point in time.

As you said, keep it simple. I just didn't want it to fall off the table completely. Anybody else on that subject?

No, I know Bill said afternoon times, but I would mix it up somehow. One of the things we hear now, everything's done in the morning, not in the afternoon. I'm sure we'll hear the same thing if you... I just think we need to think about just make sure we have a mixture of times for the meeting.

I agree with that, absolutely. That's a good point. I guess what I wanted to say is not try to do it every time at 9 o'clock in the morning.

I got you. Heard you coming when you drove up.

Thank you very much. Yes, sir.

Council, any other items? That was it for the agenda. I've got one question. I'm good.

um i would like to bring up one thing okay um for consideration in the future um so right now it's my understanding and maybe i'll get a couple of head shakes out there does the chamber have anybody that is an events coordinator is a what events coordinator oh no i've suggested that we need an events coordinator on staff yeah and that was what my suggestion was going to be because Our guys do a great job now with... Is that Troy back there?

That's Troy back there. I've already mentioned this to Troy, and Troy's on board with this too.

But I think we need somebody that goes out and actually finds new events that are throughout the whole year, rather than just certain times of the year, summer events and stuff like that, so we can kind of grow our events. a little bit more than what we've been doing. And our staff has done a great job. I told Troy earlier, I'm like, don't shoot the messenger here, but he needs help.

Yes.

And we need somebody that goes out there and talks with our businesses, gets sponsorships, gets stuff put in place where we can facilitate.

Looks at the whole calendar year and figures out how to fill voids. Yes.

Yes.

Absolutely. My question was about food trucks. We talked about food trucks several months ago. I was anticipating that something would come back to us on food trucks. Okay. We've got one executive session item. Thank you for your patience and for your attention today and for being here, especially to the business community. The following are invited to attend the entire discussion. Fox Simons, Will Bryan, Josh Kay, Josh Brugger. Welcome, Josh Kay. I didn't say that earlier. I needed to do that.

He's in the circle of love.

Yes. Michelle Shumpert, Marla Bell, Meredith Denary, and Amy Neuschafer. A motion to go into executive session to discuss negotiation relating to an incentive agreement with the private sector and related negotiation with Horry County concerning formation of or amendment to existing multi-county business park to encourage commercial development within the city limits. I would also invite Devin Parks, Bill Musser, and Chad Carlson, if I may, into that executive session.

Is there somebody else? Michelle.

No, they're looking at me because I invited Chad.

Chad's going to come to part of it?

Yeah, for part of it. I think that's fine. We can ask Chad to depart at some point if we need to.

Are we going to have a motion? Say that again?

Is there a motion?

Yeah, we're about to do it. Do we have a motion? I'm sorry.

Are you ready for the motion?

Yes, I'm ready for the motion.

So moved.

Second. Okay. Debbie and Mike, thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. We'll go into executive session. We're going to do it here. Where do you want to do it? We'll do it in here. So thank you for being here today. We appreciate that. Thank you, Mark. Okay, there it is. Good afternoon. It is 12.07. The City Council has been meeting in executive session. Do we have a motion to come out of executive session?

So moved. Second.

Bill and Mike, motion and second to come out of executive session. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? And we are out of executive session. I know it's a workshop. The workshop isn't specified in FOIA. Is there a motion to adjourn?

Don't need one. We'll just call it an end. Motion to adjourn. Thank you.

Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Thank you. We're done.