Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Heat. Heat. Johnson here. Cipher here. Kenir Blake Bron here. Will Laoy here. Mazade here. Montgomery Keys here. And Simmons. Okay, thank you. I'll add that we're using some new technology, so we might try to keep pace with that and uh let you know if we have any hiccups. Now, we have approval of the minutes. I'll move to approve the minutes with a correction on Madame Chair's last name. Two T's. Is that the only other items? Have a second. Support. Motion and supported to approve the minutes. All in favor say I. I. All oppose say no. Hearing none. The motion is approved. All right. We have a series of public hearings today. Uh item A, case 2025-19, request for a special use permit to operate an urban commercial farm at 2407

Barlay Street by Cody Sloan. and I'll initially request for a staff report. Yep. So, the applicant uh is an urban flower farmer. He's re moving his business restoring Eden from Georgia to Michigan. Uh he's requesting a special use permit to operate the farm at 247 Barklay. Um he'd grow flowers on site and supply them to fl uh florists and event planners and customers. Um he does have a depiction of a flower cart on his site plan. However, the the ordinance does state that you cannot have on on sale site on site sales for commercial farms. Um however, we've done some work in our ordinance lately that maybe we could revisit um in the future if this does get approved. We do have our accessory commercial uh units which are allowed now in certain areas. This is not an area, but it's around a lot of commercial and it it could be worth a look at. And I think it could also be interesting to allow on-site sales if it's an area that is okay for retail. And if we took a a look at our accessory commercial unit uh ordinance, which we just wrote, we could potentially also allow um farm tables or carts. So, while it wouldn't be able to be approved now with on-site sales, it's something we could potentially look at doing in the future. I think it might make sense. Um we do have a site plan um shown. There's two. There's a an overall site plan. and it's zoomed out and then a little bit closer in one shows the the planters, but this is a good one to look at. Um, in the bottom left corner of this rectangle that's drawn, that's where Rutman Creek actually goes through. It's not depicted on here. Um, I did ask the applicant if he could

update that. Um, but that wasn't until today. I'm not sure if he was able to do that. Uh you can see on the aerial photo though that we included where the creek is located and it's uh to the south and there's quite a bit of landscaping and trees in between that and the farm and we did send everybody notice within 300 feet and we haven't heard anybody from the public and I believe the applicant may be here. Yep. Okay. Do I have the applicant available? All right. Hello. If you wanted to just address the commission with any other updates besides what Mike's presented. Yeah, no other updates right now. just uh we'll look into exploring possibilities for actual community engagement um as far as the sale of flowers, but the the I I explained this I think uh even briefly over the phone. It's not a um a pillar of the business plan as it as it is exists right now. The the main goal is to um continue our Dalia hybridization program and also sourcing um Dalia specifically. I mean, that's over twothirds of what we grow. Um, notoriously hard to ship and so they have to be grown and sourced locally for uh use for events and things like that. So, um, that's where our our focus continues to lie and uh, yeah, excited to be getting established here in Michigan. You'll stay right there. Do you have any questions? There's one question for you. One greenhouse uh, plans for a greenhouse, it's not even there right now. Um it would be a small uh I think 12 x 10 was the size structure. Um yes this is not a huge operation. Our our total uh planting area is around five uh 5,00 to5500 square f feet. Um so it is not we are

not a huge commercial outfit by any means. Um but again with a with a huge uh emphasis on deli hybridization. Uh it's kind of a very niche uh explorative type realm to be sitting in. A huge part of our um our plot is actually given over to discovering new Dalia hybrids. Um so while that's exciting and fun, it's also uh for the business's sake learning how to uh make that work. And one of the ways of making that work is by sourcing and making those cut stems available um for local uh florists and event planners and and the like. And then I just have one more followup question for that. I wanted to ask about shipping on and off your property like trucks. Nope. No. How do how do you get them to sales? Just uh we I actually load them into the car and bring them to the and the and the main the main um avenue that we're looking toward especially this year is as local as we can provide as possible. Um it not only cuts if we can work on shoring up our relationships with local florists and local event planners. Uh for us it looks like twice a week you know har having a large harvest going out and delivering those and uh yeah that's kind of how the mainstay of it works. Thank you. Is the growing already occurring? Yes. On site? Yep. Yeah. I was already informed that as far as the growing aspect of it, there wasn't anything we needed approval for. um really where the approval came in because there's uh because of the fact that we haven't moved on any of the structural elements yet. It's just the planting in ground um that's happened and yeah as you know uh the earth waits for no one and so yeah we began growing them and with the hybridization program anyway even if I didn't have an outlet to sell cut stems I would be growing anyway just to continue what what's now a fiveyear journey of uh of

hybridization. So, y any other questions on the side? Go ahead. Uh, it was mentioned earlier about the prospect of potentially having on-site sales in the future, but your uh business model or how you plan on pursuing this or or in fact, you just suggested you'd be planting this and growing this even if you didn't have a business model. Correct. But the business model that you're pursuing right now is not predicated on having on-site sales. Like, you would be doing this and looking to distribute it to um Flores and the like and our community regardless. Correct. Yeah. I mean, I think that the the space where it gets really interesting is considering and there's a lot of small urban farmers as far as making the business work. Um, it's about having really small niche events right on the farm. So, I know like a farmers in Canada and around the uh New Zealand that do um on-site Dalia dinners where they just have kind of like a high tea and they will have a musician come out and they just sit in the garden when it's in full bloom, which is usually August, September. Um people are getting more like curious with how do we like generate revenue and involve the community in a way that doesn't make it an open cut flower farm um where people are constantly visiting because that's really not at all what I want. I don't want people just milling around and doing whatever they please to do. And there's a lot of farmers like sunflower farmers where the the idea is to mass, you know, mass produce crops and then get in as many people locally as you can. That's certainly not the angle of what we're what we're trying to do. Don't want to annex from the community in any way. Um but it's not uh an open farm for the community to just come and and visit whenever they please. So Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Uh you mentioned potentially doing dinners or engagement events. Is that something that's current you're currently proposing? No. As part of this would love to be able to do that, but again we would need some structural elements in place to really facilitate that. We've got um across the street there's the what was the um uh Barlay uh event

center uh that's directly across the street. So we certainly have a parking option and and being able to partner with somebody who wouldn't be able to be facilitated right on site for something like that. But again, even in talking about something like that, we're looking at like 8 to 10 people. Um certainly not, you know, anything much bigger. One other item I didn't see in your application was any mention of um items you'd be applying to the ground as part of an urban farm. So, additional commercial fertilizers, things of that nature that we wouldn't normally see in a residential garden. Nothing that you wouldn't normally see in in a residential garden. And our practice, we try to go as organic as possible. So, um everything we've needed so far for the season and as we as we look to the season ahead. Um all things we've been able to source locally and nothing that would uh stand outside of anything that a residential garden wouldn't be using. Okay. Any other questions from commission? Okay. Um, at this time this is a public hearing. So if I have any members of the audience who would like to make a comment, please come forward at this time. Thank you. Mary Oaks and my acres butt up against as far as I can figure out from the map that we received up up against the our this project and I was just wanted to make sure that they were not intending to this this sounds silly but you know how things go that they weren't dumping their stuff on our acre on our land because there's no house sitting there. That's that's place where we look at and enjoy and walk in and but um so that's what I needed. They're just their uh

agreement and a premise that they wouldn't be taking those flatbeds and throwing them over the burn because they would well just for a while and then they're there for six months. I I don't or they're junk. They're leftover leaves and they're that sort of thing. I am asking that that not be done. I don't think it will be done. I think they're reliable people, but I just thought if I don't say something and they start doing it, I won't have a leg to stand on. Does that make sense? Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. Is it okay if they um Anybody else in the audience? Okay. I'm going to go ahead and go to the phones. 231724-6721. I will give one minute until we shut that down. We have too many minutes before it's forever. I know. All right, I have to get back to any calls coming in so far. No calls. back to this agenda. Okay. Um, hearing no additional public comment. Do we have any further discussion from the commission? I'd like to motion to close the public hearing. Support. All right. I have a motion in support to close the public hearing. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed say no. All right. Hearing none. Public hearing is closed and I think Go ahead. So that we may proceed with debate. I move to approve the special use permit to operate an urban commercial farm at 2407 Barlay Street based on the findings of facts listed in the staff report. Support motion and supported to open up discussion with that motion. Any final discussion? Commissioner. Yeah. Could we have um Mr.

Sloan? Yeah. The response come back up. So, if you could just speak to your practices on how you plan on disposing of any any waste from your operations. Sure. Yeah. So, um thankfully for us, the the waste is all very usable product. Um so, it's actually stays if if the map was up, you'd see in the back uh side. Um we actually have a specific area where all compost goes um that gets a chance to break down over the season, becomes a very usable product for us in the following year. Um that's all right next to the plot, so it's nowhere near property lines. Um it's right on the outset of where the garden actually is about uh 50 ft outside of that. Um and so yeah, there wouldn't be any uh need for worry or concern about dumping. We don't actually aren't looking to dump anything off site. We want to keep it all on site. Um and yeah, and basically what that looks like is just stem byproduct as we're cutting throughout the season. Um leaf compost at the end of the year that we'll intentionally want to break down and add to uh to what's going on out there. Um, yeah, very usable stuff for us in the coming season. So, thank you. So, uh, your intention is to compost as much of the organic material as possible on site. It's be close to the the garden area, farm area away from any other, you know, residential properties or or living quarters. And whatever does need to be disposed of, you would be using regular waist streams to dispose of. You're not going to need, you know, commercial dumpsters or anything like that on site. Nope. Okay, thank you. Seeing no other items for discussion, I will take a roll call, please. Yes. Yes. Willoy, yes. Goran, yes. Cipher, yes. And Johnson, yes. All right, motion passes. Item B, public hearing case 2025-20,

request for a special use permit to operate a cat cafe at 9262nd Street by the Ark of Moskegan. Staff report, please. So, the property zone formbbased code Main Street uh ordinance was recently amended to allow cat cafes in several districts with a special use permit. This is one of them. Um there's a few guidelines that they do have to adhere to. Um they have to be able to follow the noise ordinance. Um, it's limited to to only cats. Uh, there has to be at least 62 square feet per cat and no more than 15 cats on site. Um, cats shall always be kept separate from food and preparation areas. The boarding of cats shall take place entirely indoors. Any cats leaving the establishment must be in a carrier and there must be a sign for 24-hour emergency phone number um to be able to be contacted if there's an issue on the building. Uh the building the suite measures 97 square feet. So that would allow up to 14 cats on site. Uh notice was sent to everyone within 300 ft of the property. And we did receive several comments. I think there's at least six of them. Half for and half against. They're pretty lengthy. So we'll probably give you a few minutes here to get caught up if you had a chance to read them. And in the meantime, if we have the applicant here, they could please join us. Minute or so for folks to scan over, but you can review that. Have any additions to the report as presented so far? Um, no. I just we just want the opportunity to be able to I mean, our agency advocates for individuals with disabilities. We've been in Moss County for since 1954. So, our goal is to provide jobs for individuals with disabilities and also

have the opportunity to partner with Big Lake Humane Society to provide um forever homes for cats in shelters. So, it's a twofold business um venture that we're working with and we would just love to be able to um be able to buy that downtown Moskegan. Okay. Let me know when you guys feel you're good on your review here. I have some initial questions if that's okay of the applicant. I'm I'm a cat lover so don't think I'm not cuz like I have a Well, anyway, I'm more of a dog lover. So, um anyhow, I was looking at your plan and I was looking for where litter boxes and those kinds of things are going to be kept where they're kept. Um well if you're Did you see the drawing? So that we separated looking at Okay. Okay. So we separated the um two partials that we'll have the coffee side and then we'll have the cat side. So we'll have um we're going to have built benches and then the cat boxes are going to be underneath. Gotcha. So and we and those cat boxes are actually boxes within itself. Okay. So, so the coffee area and the cat area are going to be two basically completely separate. Yeah. And it's a it's pretty cool. It's just a glass wall. So, when you're in the coffee area, you can see the cats. Yeah. Okay. And then I was going to ask about um you're partnering with um an animal agency. So, as far as grooming, fleas, vacuuming, all those things, you get that. Yeah. They're completely vetted before they come in for temperament, shots, all that before they even come to our facility. Big Lake's going to take care of that. They'll take care of all the adoptions, you know, we're they're taking care of the cat side. We're taking care of the workers and the coffee side. That's that's good clarification. Thank you. Any discussion

over here so far? Okay, go ahead. Um this is probably more for staff. So the it's noted that the unit space is 97 square feet. Um, but because of the partitioned area, is that inclusive of the entire space or the partitioned area? And would the cap be applicable to the area where just the cats are? Um, it's written as the establishment must provide 62 square feet per one cat. Um, that's that's all it was listed as. I I guess I would interpret that as the whole site. Um they're not required to partition them off, but they've chosen to. Okay, that's fine. My understanding is is they partitioned it to separate between the prepare preparation of food or we're not we're not preparing food, but in order to even serve coffee, we have to separate that. Correct. Um, and so I would interpret that to be the space in which cats are free to roam would be the square footage that they that's based on discussion here, but um, go ahead. I guess I'd like a little clarity to what the city manager asked. Um, Mike, so when you come up with the 14 or the 14 cats on site, you're using the entire space. Yes. Okay. Yes. Thank you. I and I would like to mention they they're only asking for four to six cats, but I wanted to establish a maximum number based on the ordinance. So, go ahead. Just to feedback on that line of questioning or thought, could we, if we were to approve uh the special use permit, could you add a condition or can we add a condition that it cannot exceed six? I mean, you've heard that they only plan on having four to six, and given the partition space is less, we could stipulate that no more than X number. Yes. And I think it'll be important that we run through the exercise uh after

maybe the public hearing and we talk about if it meets some of those issues and that would be the rationale for limiting. We're actually asking for eight is the maximum. Okay. That's our HOA limit. Okay. And then um can I ask that? Yeah. How did you uh arrive at that number? Because some of the communications I've been reading from folks is that it's a limited to two per unit. Uh two cats or two dogs per unit. So, how did you arrive at the eight um the number of eight cats that are allowed per the HOA because it's a business versus a actual living condo, living condo. Okay. So there's a carve out in HOA bylaws that allows for master deed. The master deed or the bylaws say something different. So there's a conflict there. But that's not for us to, you know, adjudicate, but I just want to understand that the deed says one thing, the bylaw say nothing. There's potential conflict. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. My name is David Coulson. I'll be the manager at the dividing wall that's in there. Um using the 62 ft and that the HOA. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And then one question I had is um what the air system is for that unit compared to the rest of the building. Whether there's any interaction between the HVAC systems. I know you had a floor plan, but I it has its own HVAC system. We also have in just that one section in just that side. Okay.

Those are newly installed. Yes. Not. Okay. I know previously when it was a you know was a cafe and they did roasting on site when I was there and they were doing roasting it was a bit overwhelming. Yeah. You know. No. No. We we bought our own and so um you have additional odor controls and HVAC. Here I mean our goal is to not have a cat smell. I mean, yes, that's a couple other things we're doing to address that issue is we recommend they use wooden pallets that they special. Secondly, the people that we will be training, part of their jobs is to obviously take care of the cats, clean the area, but they'll be cleaning cat boxes minimum two times a day, probably more as much as they have free time to do. Our goal is to have it as spotless as possible. Okay. Commissioner M. I'm good. Good. Okay. Um and then one final question was um for how long that the animals would be left unattended? Uh, we will be well, let's see. I mean, we close at like 8:00. So, 8 o'clock in the evening until probably 6 o'clock in the morning and probably 9:00 in the evening until 6 o'clock in the morning. And that would be 7 days a week. Mhm. Okay. Any final questions? All right. This is a public hearing. Thank you so much. I'll open it up to any folks in the audience who'd like to address the commission. You'd have three minutes to provide your remarks. Welcome, Cindy. Hello, I'm Cindy Larson and I live in the building. I don't live directly over the top of it. We do have a tenant that lives over it who has a dog and then I live next to that. So, obviously, K Cafe sounds super exciting. It would be great for the downtown. However, when you're living in the

building, you can see it just makes us super super nervous. Um because these are goals to make sure there's no smell, goals to make sure the cats don't get out, goals to make sure the cats don't pee in a common area. um so concerned about the proximity of the common area uh to this cat cafe. So um they do have one door that goes outside and then we use then there's the common door that goes to the elevators and the guest bathrooms. So I don't want to use up all the time because there's one other person here. But so it's just making us nervous because we don't know what to do, you know, how are we going to manage the relationship? I did I didn't call Blue Lake because I thought it would Heaven can wait. So, I called the Heaven Can Wait people and asked a lot about questions and they even had concerns about how difficult it is to manage a cat cafe and that it takes a lot of work and it's a lot of effort and they recommended just FYI that just they should even start with only two cats to make sure all the systems are in place and they can manage it and there's a lot of issues. They said they'll probably have more issues managing it um than anything else. So, it just makes us pause and wonder, you know, where is this going to go? is this really the right thing for that building. I don't think they probably even realized we lived in the building when they purchased it. I mean, I've talked to a lot of people that don't know there's residents there. So, um, we did make them aware at the very first meeting. We told them at the very first meeting before they even closed that we are really concerned about this, especially when we heard the 12cat number. And so, they have backed that down, which is really good. And I'm glad the law is going to prevent that. But, you can just I'm just like thinking, where is this all going to go? I've had a cat before. I've had good cats. They're great. But I have had a bad cat that peed on a chair and I had to get rid of the chair, a brand new chair. I had bought a house once, so I thought, "Oh, I'll just change the carpet." I couldn't just change the carpet. I had to take out the floorboards because the cats had peed. So cats are not, you know, always the best thing to manage. So I guess I can stop right there because if if you don't get it, then you don't get it. But if

you do get it, you'll get it and understand why we're nervous and we don't understand what the recourse would be if we started to have problems. I mean, how often's who's going to inspect it? How often do they inspect it? Because probably the health department, you know, some places have to get inspected a lot if there's animals involved. So, I guess that's it. Thank you. Anybody else? Hello. I'm Emily and I have um a business next door. Um, my building isn't directly um touching their building. Um, I just also worry about the smell. I'm all for new businesses and I think a cat cafe is awesome and I stand behind Ark. Um, but I'm just worried about the smell and the odor. Going through the hallways. Um, you don't know if somebody's allergic or anything like that. I just think of the cigar lounge in the building downtown and that kind of deterred people away from that building. Um, so I would hate to see that happened to the two businesses, the other two businesses in the building. You any final folks from the audience? If not, we'll go to the phones. 2317246721. This is a public hearing. [Applause] excitement coming in on the phones. I would take a motion. Motion to close public hearing. Support motion and supported to close the public

hearing. And do we want a motion? Do we want to do that exercise? Yeah. Run through that. Yeah, probably. Sure. Good idea. So, I can just There we go. Um uh just before you go through that exercise, I need to disclose that I live in the building. I live within 300 ft of this property. So, I So, I did receive a notice. Um but it's not a conflict because I don't have a financial interest in that particular HOA. So, thank you. So, I'm going to an exercise here. I'm going to run through some questions from 20 section 2332.4 of the zoning ordinance and um the planning commissioners should probably just answer these in their heads and as emotions made maybe reference um if any of these decided help you decide to your conclusion. So um the first question is do you believe that this use is consistent with all adjacent uses and structures? Two, do you believe the proposed use would be considered offensive or a nuisance for any of the following reasons? Increased traffic, noise, vibration, or light. And do you do you find the adequate water and sewer infrastructure exists or will be constructed to serve the use? So what are we supposed to do? Um well he mentioned to answer them in your head but I think and we can we can answer them out loud if we want to go through one. Well I don't know if that's what you I know this is kind of new to us. Um, is this what how So, I think we need a motion. Or is that just a part of the deliberations? Yeah. Be part of the deliberations. Take a motion to discuss it and we'll decide whether to move forward or amend the motion. Okay. Okay. I'll I'll take that then. Um, I move to approve the special use permit to allow a cat cafe with a maximum number of 14 cats at 926

Street based on the findings of facts listed in the staff report. Support Okay. So, we have a motion in support. Any discussion about that specific motion which includes 14 cats? I I I first want to talk about the number of cats. So, um I don't think we can have half a cat. No, that would definitely not smell good. Um but um that 14 is is much too um too large I think for the space. Um maybe a few I I like the comments that were made about um maybe starting with a very small number on management um on that. Um that's the first thing that I've got in my head about that um in particular. Commissioner, so was a motion for 14. That's what I thought. So we have to amend it. Could be modified. Yeah, we'll have to change. You don't have to amend it for me. Um because I don't think that this use is compatible. I think there's a reason why um this type of use is not a a use permitted by Wright. Um and so I I I just don't think that it's uh compatible with the existing uses in the uh building. Okay. Any other then? Oh, go ahead. There's a question for our planning manager. Do we have the opportunity to approve a permit for up to x number of cats or we start out with four and a smaller number or eight? I don't think any of us want 14. Um some of us are against this regardless of the number. But um is there an opportunity to approve a permit for a sixmonth or one-year basis up to four and then review it at a future time to renew the

permit? Um or is that not we don't have the flexibility within uh well zoning enabling act and planning laws and like I believe we'd have to run through the same public hearing process and notice everybody. So it' essentially just be a new request. It wouldn't really be much of an amendment. So it would be just a we'd be giving a permit for x amount of time and then we'd just do the process all over again if and they would shoot for a higher number that second time. Um, and then I had a question regarding the current expectation of inspections as to whether we would expect that the health department, obviously there's a coffee shop, so the health department is going to be involved in that capacity, but what involvement health department would typically have in this case or any other inspection agency that we're aware of? Well, our inspections department isn't probably not going to need to do too much. It's not a change of use for them. Um the health department will do whatever they do. I I'm not sure exactly what that entails, but they will have to get their permit. Yeah, I'm assuming with food there's a regular, right? Yeah. Inspection process there. Yes, there is. And and you know, I I worked for public health for 23 years. I I can tell you that um having the combination of both animals and food is probably unique. So, it'd be something you'd have to ask the department on how they would handle that. Mike, in this situation, um, due to the zoning, this type of operation cannot be embarked on by right. Correct. Correct. special use. Uh ju just for you know clarification in my own mind, you know, we we have a general business area with commercial storefronts

um throughout the the downtown. Um would pet stores Yes. be allowed by right as a commercial operation? Um, I would because it's basically like to look that up real quick. Only take a minute. We're not all on encyclopedia, so give me a second. Um, any other items we wanted to talk through in the meantime? Go ahead. Um, so I was just looking at at what we could do regarding conditions because one of the questions came up like as far as recourse or if things were going sideways. Um, and per special land use, we can put conditions on uh addressing concerns such as traffic noise, glare, odor, things of that nature. So, two of those would seem to fit uh the discussion that we're having here. uh that if there were, you know, kind of like we do with um cannabis, cannabis, if there's an odor issue that we receive a complaint about, that gets investigated to determine if if there's something there that could be a reasonable condition to put on this. Um I would agree that you know the again that the noise was also mentioned as a potential issue. Um so first of all the this commission um is interested in the idea of expanding business opportunities. We you know we did approve the the ordinance change. So, um, this specific situation, we're just trying to account for how we can make sure that it's viable, you know, so that it doesn't become a a dead idea. Can I ask again on the HOA, what what is the maximum per household for animals? It's two two cats, two dog, two of anything, two iguanas. Yeah. Okay. No fish. Somebody said no fish. All right. Okay,

we're still checking on pet stores. I don't believe I've ever seen the word pet store or shop in our ordinance if it's defined like that. We do have um vets vets and kennels defined, but it's not allowed specifically in this district. Okay. We usually define it by kennel. Okay. Um Okay. Okay. Well, what I'm generally hearing is that if somebody wanted to put a motion forward, it would need to after we resolve this one, it would need to be for a lower amount and have some caveat for recourse with issues and how that would be resolved potentially through a complaint process with safe build. But we have a motion on the floor. Can I ask one more item? Um, it wouldn't be for anyone on the das or on staff. would be someone within the HOA because I'm trying to understand is this something that the HOA had to vote on to allow has that vote happened? Is this you know my first my understanding please correct me if I'm wrong is is that regardless of what's viable for ordinance high the HOA would then be on top of that and they would have to resolve that amongst themselves. So the HOA still has to weigh in. Do we have confirmation on that? like the HOA cuz I because I've heard I've got a letter from the HOA president who indicated that he'd heard no complaints or issues from that was the neighboring res and then I've got you know some communications and we've heard from some tonight of some business owner neighboring business owners um who aren't keen on it as well as residents who aren't keen on it and so I'm just wondering if this is all moot like I don't think we've seen any if HOA is going to vote it down like why are we necessarily so we did receive and for folks in the audience and and watching we did receive commentary from neighbors. I don't believe we received any positive commentary from those in the same building. Yes. Only you know we

see other neighbors other there's one in the building. There's two in the building who were have concerns and then there were two others uh two other neighbors uh who support it. So that we got three support two concern. So I suppose if the applicant I I guess you know if we want to ask the applicant to describe how they anticipate this going forward. I do have additional questions for the applicant if we could hear from them. Bring the applicant back up here. Basically as mentioned before you know the concept of cat cafes is not something that we're against. It's the concept of these suggestions being viable. So how do you see yourselves moving forward in this scenario? Yeah, my name is Gary Post. I live at uh 942nd Street uh in one of the units above where the uh Cat Cafe, although at the other end of the development, I'm also the uh developer of this uh project as well as uh currently chair of the board for the HOA. Uh Arc of the Lakeshore, you know, purchased this building uh a little over a year ago. Uh I do believe that we've been, you know, quite transparent through the whole process. Uh I mean that was their initial intent when they purchased the property was to uh you know develop uh the cat cafe. Uh we've had a couple of different meetings with the uh property owners there and I certainly understand Cindy's concerns uh Emily's concerns uh there as well. I think that's a concern all of us but I believe that we've adequately addressed those. Um I know David and and Karen who have been uh deeply involved in this project. They also lived in one of the town homes uh up until a few years ago. Uh I have confidence uh we we've talked about um you know the odor issues. We've talked about uh loose cats or that possibility. Uh I'm confident in our conversations with them that those are all being you know adequately addressed. Um I think this is a small business. I believe it's a win-win you know for ARC and the people that they serve. Uh I

believe it's a win for the uh rescue organizations whether that's the Humane Society or Heaven Can Wait or others. I think it's a win for them as it gives them more exposure and hopefully puts uh you know cats in the homes of uh people that that can use them. With all apologies to to Jill, I'm I'm not a cat lover. Um I currently u actually probably uh have a have a bit of an allergy to them, but I can also say that we have a daughter who owns four cats and I can visit her house and there's no odor, there's no allergies. Um there's there's methods now that they can be well taken care of and I'm confident that uh ARC will take the same steps uh to mitigate any of those concerns that we have there as well. So uh one more item I guess we don't necessarily have it in the requirements but I would have asked if there was signage that basically makes it clear to anyone entering the premises that there are cats. Um which I'm pretty sure that sign get that impression. Um, but you know, I have I have gone into establishments and not realized cats are on the kind of You mean like allergies? Beware. Yes, absolutely. Go ahead. I do want to mention something. The zoning ordinance actually defines a commercial kennel as any premises on which more than three dogs are four more than four cats older than four months old or cats. So more than four. Yes. They just kept it at four. They actually don't need as use by right they could do up by right they could do four there okay just four gotcha that clarifies a lot okay well I mean that you know that's really helpful to know we do I do have no I did another question for the applicant um can you just explain your business model some you know for folks that aren't familiar with the cat cafes and also how you plan on operating I know you got the the cafe portion you're be selling beverages and the like but I did see some um cost uh or fees associated with the the cat portion of

it can you just help um us understand how that operates. So, we traveled state of Michigan. There's probably about probably 12 to 15 cat cafes in the state of Michigan. Everybody charges different. So, basically the premise is people um book time with the cats. So, our I I think we just got our website up and going, but it's not up and going. It's not live. But anyway, it's like $6 for 30 minutes that you can book time with the cats. So, say I want to book me and my two kids. So, I would pay $18 for 30 minutes to go in and spend, you know, 30 minutes with the cats. We'd play with them. Maybe it's because I don't want to have a cat in my house and so I want to take my kids there just so that they can play with the cats and they get their cat fixed and then we go home. Or, you know, maybe I book an hour and it's $10. Or maybe I want to have my kids' birthday party there. So, I book an hour and a half and, you know, rent the place for an hour and a half and have 13 kids there to play with some cats, you know. or Baker College is right across the street. Maybe the kids want to, you know, students want to go bring their laptops and hang out there for an hour and have the cats hang out there on their laptops and pet them. You know, it's a relaxing type atmosphere for the students. So, they can go hang out with cats and study. So, on the cat side, it's just going to be free flowing. Cats are able to come go and play. You'll have doors partitioning the two then. So, their physical, it's not an open door. It's a physical partition. No, the health department had us completely block that off. So, we've already been in touch with the health department. We've passed all that stuff. So, um, and to their point about the open corridors, we do have. So, if you look, there's we have the coffee shop, there's a glass door going into the cafe. So, there's one barricade here, there's another barricade that they can never get into. So, there's two barricades where they can get to the common corridors. You go into the back section, there's going to be a door here. So, they'd have to get through that door and then get through

another door before they can get to the common corridor. So, there's two blockages before they can even get to the common area. Speaking of the Let me have one more followup. Speaking of the doorways and uh had to access the the building, I know I had heard concerns in the past about it being accessible um given the stuffs in the front and the only accessible entrances in the back and you know you'd have to walk through the front, go all the way to the back, then come back around to the front uh to be served and um the concern was that wasn't equitable like forcing you know someone that is mobility challenged to go all the way back and loop around just to get to the front versus having an accessible entrance at the front. Are you contemplating ways to improve that or or change that so that you know it is an accessible entryway from the front? Um you know whether that's trying to figure out with the city putting a ramp in right there or another idea that I'd heard in the past was putting a u in that front fiery that you go to the rest of the building like doing an entrance into um uh the cafe there. So yep, that was done. Oh, that's already been done. You guys already put that. See, I haven't been in that building in a while then. So you already have an extra side entrance there. Okay. So, I didn't I didn't see it um reflected on here, but it's there. Okay. Well, that is good to know. I'm happy to hear that that access um has been added and has been improved. So, thank you for doing that. We did not do it. I mean, we didn't pay for it, Mr. Posted. Thank you. All right. So, let me get this correct then. If if they do four or less cats, then they don't even need to come see us about this. Yeah. And I'm over here just as a use by right saying as a use by right with underlying zoning that they could have up to four cats there. Um qualifying as a kennel a commercial kennel register as a kennel not a kennel. It' be under a kennel. So it just be a coffee shop. Kenn kennels aren't allowed. Oh you're saying it. Okay. I thought you were saying. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So once it becomes a

commercial kennel once you exceed four cats which is a use by right or not. Right. is the commercial. Yeah, this will not allowed there. But they would not qualify as a commercial kennel so long as they have four or fewer cats on site. But there's nothing otherwise in the zoning that would preclude them from having cats on site. Okay. So, knowing that, I'm of the mind not to approve the permit at this time operating, you know, they still move forward with the the cat cafe. You're starting off with four, you know, seeing how that goes. And then you know if there aren't if this isn't you know a problem you know your neighbors find out oh no this is not a problem whatsoever we don't have issues with it we enjoy it um then there could be opportunity to then expand it but that that's where my thinking is at this moment. Can you give us a time frame because I can guarantee you we're probably not going to be successful if we just have four cats. That's good to know. Was there a minimum number of cats that you considered in this business plan that you needed in order to be I mean six to eight was our I mean we never wanted to go past eight because we don't think it's I mean for us to consciously want to be cleanly and have the people that we support be able to successfully clean them and you know be able to feel good about themselves and cleaning the area. eight was our always max and the the um cafes that we've gone to across Michigan. I mean there's one cafe there was 36 cats. So I mean we are way under the cat limit that we've seen in the areas that we've gone to. So we think eight was just like you know way easy to go with. So I mean Mike, would you be able to confirm for us the square footage in the enclosed area where the cats would be allowed? I would not be able to do that on site plan with no dimension. No,

say one more time. We have a paper set upstairs. Uhhuh. Um because we do definitely have a square footage in the ordinance of how many cats are allowed per square footage. No. So there would not be their initial assumption is seven but I think we should confirm anything over here in our plans. I was going to say I I rough to get to the measure those but it was about I don't know that the hallway would count. Just know there were where there part of the room. There's a door being shown to the hallway. Is that correct? Yes. So, the door would have to be open for that to count. Yeah. So, like I said, I didn't count that when I just did threw a tape. I just for the sake of clarity I think it's useful to know exactly what we're making possible. Yeah. Um so I was reading some of the the comments uh from the emails and some of the concerns and there was uh in one of the emails it noted some of the suggestions was building a separate uh separation wall giving up access um to the shared hallway elevator and bathrooms. That's been done. uh a separate heating and cooling vent system should be required to avoid any allergies uh or odors to be transmitted. And they noted that it was a separate HVAC system with additional and purifiers. Yeah. And purifier. So that's been done. Um so uh it goes on to say extra sound insulation. Um that wouldn't really be our purview. Um

uh separate Oh, separate dumpsters. I don't know. That would be our perview either. Well, maybe. But um so I think you know a number of these concerns have already been addressed per some of these emails. Go ahead. So I want some clarity on the kennel issue um since that's been brought up. So if there's more than four cats, it's considered a kennel and that um that use is not permitted in this current zoning. Correct. Unless it's a cat cafe. Unless it's a And and then that's allowed under a special use. Yes. Thank you. Yep. And we have a total on the area. The cat area is about 365 square foot by 62 says 36 by 10. So is that six? No, that's a third actually. Six. 5.8. 5.8. Okay, that's what's on the plan. Let's round it up to six. How many? We're We're thinking six. Possibly 5.8, which is more than half. Yeah. 5.88. You would round up. Yeah. Yeah. All the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. We gave you plans. We had to We had to switch our plans. Was it 14? Where? Where does it say 14? The wall is right here now. Okay. 36 by 14. Yes. One more comment on this issue. 8 8.12. Yeah. 504. 8.12. Now, okay. So, now we're back up to eight. Yeah. All right. So, I think the ordinance allows based on the square footage Mhm.

of the, you know, the special permit up to eight. And so the current motion is for the originally requested 14. And do we want to amend that motion or just vote? Any ideas on amending that motion? I still think eight's a little too high. Um, honestly, the snowing cats, um, that is quite a bit of square footage and they're going to be taken care of on a regular basis. I'm not concerned about the cat's health. I just think it's a small space for that's the square footage you put in the ordinance, but that's my opinion. And I'm going to lean on you to some extent. I'm not a cat person. I don't own a cat. I've never owned a cat. I couldn't I'm not, you know, well versed or experienced in caring for cats. So, um I am going to have to lean on, you know, others. That means that the Yeah, they're pretty Yeah, they're very self-reliant. I don't do that, but a few days. Yes. As long as they're getting along, they're fine. Um I don't know. I I could have I really torn on this. Um well, I wanted to ask another question. kind like how they're going to let's say this moves forward whether it's approved at 8 or six or you know some other number. How do you anticipate fielding and responding to concerns and complaints that are received from the neighbors or the general public and maybe there's one cat that's particularly boisterous and vice like are you just going to be like okay we're going to you know Oh yeah okay. Oh yeah 100%. I mean, Big Lake is going, like I said, going to vet them. So, they have them in their kennels already. So, they're going to pick out the ones that they think are going to be compatible with the other groups. I mean, I work closely with Alexis, who runs the Big Lake Society. She's very excited about

this venture. She knows what's going to happen. So, she she's not going to put cats in there that are going to be disruptive. She is going to put cats in there is going to get along with other ones. And she's already said if there's a an incident, we'll come get them right away. You know, it's not going to be an issue. we work well together. I mean, it's that's never going to be a problem. And we're going to I mean, we're going to have people there all the time. I mean, we're going to have I hate to say say it like this, but we're going to have a designated supervisor in the cat area along with one of our individuals we support in there. So, there's going to be two people at all times just in the cat area watching the cats. So it's not like and then whoever comes in there to during business hours. During business hours, yes. But other than that, I mean cats, they're you know, they're not going to party all night or anything. Did you have a final thought there, sir? Yeah, I do. I just want to speak again. This particular this cat cafe has carpet in there. Most of the furniture is either metal chairs, tables, which are hard surface. We have a couple couches. Um but those won't survive. It's easily cleaned. Um yeah, for our uh sakes as well, we do want it clean. Sounds bad or whatever. So it's it's some of the cat cafes did have carpet. We're just not we're not Okay, one more question. Final question and then I'm looking for an update on I got one more question. So did I hear correctly earlier from Mr. post that um the ark acquired the entire building, not just that section. So just that space, not the entire building. I see. Okay. I was going to say if you own the entire building, now you've got, you know, your other tenants to uh be accountable to and if they're having issues with it and like I don't want to operate here and makes it change the dynamic. So like you have more onus to make sure that you know everything is it

was the old dripped dropout drink we bought that business. Okay. Just separated just the that one unit on the corner. Okay. Thank you. I own the other two. Absolutely. We've somebody that lives there bushes actually smell. We've asked Gary to um replace the bushes in front. They're actually bushes that smell like cat pee when the sun hits them. So, we've asked Gary for per Yeah. We've asked HOA for permission to replace those bushes and as mentioned previously any of the HOA specific concerns about limits or what have you um do have to go back to that. So, what do we got on the motion, ma'am? Otherwise, we can vote on it and start over. And and to just be honest, I it's not like we're going to start with eight, you know, we're not going to just throw eight cats in there right away. We want to start small. We want to be successful. We're not going to go in there and just throw eight cats together and say, "Hey, let's figure out how this works." We're going to start small. We don't want to We don't want to, you know, fail. We don't want to do that, especially when we're starting out, you know, with individuals that have disabilities. We want to accustom to our business. We want to accustom them to the cats. They might never have worked with animals before. So, I mean, we got to be, you know, susceptible to what they their needs are, too. So, this is a learning curve for everybody that's going to be working there and everything. So, we're not I mean, we're not going into this just like, oh, we're going to make tons of money. That's not our goal. We're a nonprofit agency, you know. We're going into there just to Thank you. to Yeah. Sorry. It's okay. Forward. We will amendments. The one that was suggested about odor, right?

Odor and noise. I think odor and noise because those are two things we can regulate. And then the other one was to take the number of cats down from our from 14 to eight. No more than eight. which still fits into the particular ordinance. Yep. Okay. All right. Then um do you want me to amend that? You would please. I will. You have some verbage? No, I was just writing down like I was just writing down notes. Okay. I'd like to amend my original motion by um reducing the number of cats to eight, maximum of eight, and then applying the um that they lose their special permit if there's a noise or an odor issue persistent. That's really hard to enforce. We we do that with the marijuana. Yes. I don't Are you having I've never been able to do that. I don't we don't have anything that measures marijuana smell and I don't You don't want to go by different people's noses. Is that what you're saying? I'm not even sure how I would do that. Okay. Um I don't know how we address that then. It's not very effective for marijuana either. So, if I may. Mhm. Yeah. We're going to need to find a solution to that period then. like whether it's cats or cannabis like when we when we add a condition that this could potentially be revoked due to uh you know being noxious and odors and we do that regularly with our cannabis like and I know we have certain facilities that are regular offenders that is very irksome um and so we don't have the teeth to like say hey and I do shape up or we're you know we're going to revoke like I would like to so like I would just like to see how

we might be able to have a suggestion there strengthen it. Sure. So, I think having that in our marijuana ordinance is helpful because the people that we are giving the the permits to know that and I'm able to contact them and they're usually able to switch out their filters which helps a lot. I don't believe this is going to be a case where changing out a filter is going to do much. Um I just I don't really know how I would can we include um unreasonable number of complaints and I know that that is subject to discussion but we can determine reasonability based on you know the people in the building how many complaints over time but basically you know including I think it'd be a mistake to leave it out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think that, you know, that it's predicated on Well, yeah. I mean, because then the onus, if I may, sorry. Um, if we're adding that as a condition or or a potential revocation because of noise or odor, well, then the onus is on us to prove it. And if and if, um, you know, they disagree with our assessment, then it would be adjudicated and we'd have to defend it. Um, so I would prefer it be in there than not in there. I know it puts, you know, perhaps our planning department a little bit of a challenging situation, but at least we could enforce on it if need be and then defend ourselves and find a way that's most appropriate to defend ourselves in. That's a really good point because while we haven't gone that far with the marijuana people cuz they've usually complied, um there are tools over here to do it. We have a magazine with municipal services. There's a telescope you put up to your nose and I'm even joking, it gives you a reading for marijuana smell. Okay, we have not done that. We didn't bought that equipment, but if push came to shove, that could be something for that. I don't know what that would be for cats now, but I think we could

probably figure something out. Okay, so something potentially like this permit is revokable based on unreasonable unreasonable number of complaints relating to noise and order. Is that vague enough for you? Unreasonable number of complaints for os noise or or Repeated is what we use. Repeated um is what we use the marijuana a lot. Keeping keeping in mind that even if we if we revoke the permit, they could still have four. Y like they can still have four cats. Um Yeah. Without without approval from us on anything. Mhm. Yeah. So yeah. Is that was that clear as mud? Did you get anything out of that? I think it's helpful to have that in there. 32 I think it'd be a we'd be missing about so this would be with a maximum number of eight cats a unreasonable number of I would say an unreasonable number because even if it's if you get 20 people you know who are saying this is terrible excessive unreasonable and or excessive well so it's the number of complaints it's revocable based on an unreasonable number of complaints and then we're changing it to eight and the persistency of it because I you could get you know 10 complaints. If they fix it and there are no more complaints thereafter, well then it's good. So that's why I'm like it's just we have an opportunity to cure it. We also don't have to go We also don't have to go with the number that is calculated. We can use the exercise to bring that down you feel necessary. And I believe they're only asking for six. Six. Well, they prefer eight. Six to eight. They're asking for I mean I'd be I'm good with six just you know but well I am too quite frankly. Me too. Um I'm more comfortable with that. Okay let's move that I would like to change my motion to six versus eight. So we're changing six

versus eight controls in for order and noise. Anything else missing off that? I think we got anything I'm not hearing anything from anybody over there. Our commissioners over there. Well, well, I like the idea. I, you know, I'm not excited about this at all, but um I like the idea of what the mayor had to say about um possibly starting with a smaller number, say four, and the um petitioner talked about starting with a smaller number and and I know it's uh difficult to go through these machinations again at a later date, but then I think it provides some kind of checks and balance at that point. You know, like I said, I'm not really excited um about it to begin with, but four is not a whole lot different than what somebody might have in a residential unit. The applicant did mention that they would not stay at that for long. So, they would be coming back just because of the But if but if it's at four, if that's the if that's the limit, then if they want to go more than that at some point, they got to come back here. Yeah. Go ahead. Does the let's say we went we're doing a hypothetical planning manager. Let's say we don't do a permit right now. They move forward with four. Everything's hunky dory. No issues. It's working well. They want to add a couple more cats, maybe up to four. Sounds like eight is the max period given the the the size constraints. Um, can we table this request of um the permit to a future date while they move forward with what's available used by Wright and then reconsider it so they don't have to pay again. Basically, we could still we could still notice the same property owners. We've heard from several of them. We could let them know that this is coming back at a public hearing, but at least saves them the the

the cost and application um to go through the process again. And I'm just throwing a scenario out there. I'm not aware of a sunset date on a table. I don't know if the city manager has heard on that, but that that that does come into question. Yeah. If Well, I think you either have to you either have to set a specific date or it has to come up at the next meeting. Um so we like Yeah. So that things don't live in perpetuity. So we could say six months. Yeah. We we could put a like you know 6 months from the time of opening or 3 months or whatever it is but we have to set a specific date on it. Um otherwise we we have to take it up next month. Would would you be comfortable doing six allowing them I mean I think if four is going to work six is going to work and allowing them to come back they need to expand to eight. I feel like that's I'm comfortable with that too. An amount that allows them to move. I'll tell you, you know, there's a there's and this is just an opinion, but there are a lot of people where they live, they're not allowed to have any animals at all. And a lot of people really like animals. And so, you know, it'd be nice to have a place, I mean, dogs, cats, iguanas, I don't I don't care what's in it, but it'd be nice to have a place where people can have contact with animals. I think it's good for your mental health. Um, honestly, so, you know, I see the point. I'm I'm really torn on this because I really like I'd be like there every day if I didn't have my own cats. Um but I but I understand the concerns of the people that live in the as well. So um it's it's difficult. I've been around cats my whole entire life. I get it. Okay. So just to clarify regardless of the motion. Yeah. Four cats. I don't even anymore. Okay. Yeah. Nobody's nobody's preventing forecasts, right? So cats are allowed without a permit. Yes, they can do up to four without even talking to us. Correct. And so if there

is a amendment to the motion changes the number from 14, I think we should take that and run with it. I mean you've already proposed a friendly amendment down to what? I did down to six to six. So you have a friendly amendment down to controls. Who supported that? I did. So did I accept the friendly? I'm sorry. Like taking over his chair. It's on the screen now. All right. So, we have an amended motion amended motion for six cats instead of 14 with caveats for noise and odor complaints that you've I think that's what put that into writing in a way that makes sense. Good with that. And okay, great. We're ready to vote on that then. Okay. So, are we voting? So, we friendly amendments. We don't have we don't have to vote on the amendment. We're just Okay. For six. All right. Roll call, please. Commissioner Johnson. Yes. Cypher, yes. Gram, yes. Will Loy, yes. No. And yes. Okay. Motion passes. Okay. There are other items on our agenda today. Yeah. But that's a good one. I mean, who I mean, we allow chickens, right? So I mean because my computer closes one went walking through my front yard the other day. I was going to call you and say come get it, but I just square you know a lot of competing. Going back to we have an item C on the agenda. An additional public hearing request to reszone the property at 62 Irwin Avenue from our neighborhood residential to RM1 lowdensity multiple family residential. So, this is a former church building that's vacant. It's zoned our neighborhood residential um which would allow up to a duplex. Uh

there's no alley, so you can't get any more units than that out of that per the ordinance. However, it's fairly large building uh over 2500 ft that could host more units. Um, so when staff heard what the applicant was looking at, uh, he was discussing maybe up to four units or possibly even going the single room occupancy route. Uh, and I let him know that the RM1 zones would be the best fit for that. That way you could get um, let's see how many units per acre. 16 units per acre. Uh but on this specific property with the calculations, they would only be allowed up to four. So they could have a forplex under an RM1. They'd also be able to have uh the ability to apply for the single room occupancy. We'd have to take a look at how that would be drawn up to see how many people would be allowed, though. Um but that appears to be the best zoning ordinance for this type of use. The master plan also discusses um how we should be a little more flexible with uh former civic buildings, you know, schools and churches because there's uh often have a tough time redeveloping these properties. So, reszoning to RM1 fits the master plan. We've actually held some focus groups uh for all the properties up and down peek to reszone them. We may see a request here in the next month uh to reszone those to formbbased code. Uh, however, I would still not consider this a spot zone if this was the only property because it meets the intent of the master plan. So, uh, I don't believe the applicant was here. He did show up last Thursday and we let him know it was supposed to be today, though. So, and I don't what I don't see is the description of RM1. Is that something that you could make avail?

I'm checking. I didn't see it. Would allow 16 units per acre. Can you pull it up on should be four units on that property. You could apply for a special use permit for single room occupancy building. I really had some questions for the applicant too. And so again the applicant is not in the audience just confirming not seeing one. Would you like to see the uses or the area and bulk requirements? Um, mostly I was just looking for requirements. Okay. Okay. Specifically, I'm curious about the alley situation. There's no alley requirement with the RM1 to achieve the density. And the actual property outline did or did not include that parking lot to the right. The parking lot comes with the property. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, I don't have an applicant here. Uh but this is a initial discussion. Otherwise, I'm gonna move to the public discussion. Okay. Anybody in the audience have comment? This is a public hearing. Seeing none, I'll go to the phones. 231-724-6721. Okay, we did notice all folks within 300 ft. One is here in the room. Nobody's on the

phones. I'll take a motion. Move to close public hearing. Moved and supported to close the public hearing. And so now we would need a motion in order to discuss item. Anybody? I move that the request to reszone the property at 62 Irwin Avenue from R to RM1. Oh, sorry. Oh, all in favor? Yeah. On the public hearing. Yeah. Jump the gun. We do an order. All those in favor of closing the public hearing. I. All those opposed say no. No. Okay. Try again. Now I move that the request to resone the property at 62 Irwin Avenue from R to RM1 be recommended to the city commission for approval. Support. All right. motioned and supported. Any discussion amongst you folks? Thanks for keeping me on task. All right. I was only concerned about the alley requirement, which there isn't one. There's some parking there nearby. And we've been looking to expand opportunities for density within the the city. So, I certainly would be in favor. All right. Roll call, please. Commissioner Montgomery Kee. Yes. Made. Yes. Wlette Loy, yes. Gan, yes. Cypress, yes. And Johnson, yes. Motion passes. Okay. And then we had an additional Yes. Uh item D, case 2025-22. Request to reszone the property at 1188 Lakeshore Drive from Lakefront Recreation to form base code urban residential. Staff. Yep. So, this is a vacant lot. Uh it's in between the Lakeshore Yacht Harbor and uh Adelaide Point. It's zone lakefront recreation. Uh it's 1.6 acres, but much of it is undevelopable because it's under the ordinary high watermark. Um they did provide a site plan, which

is not necessary for a reasonzoning, but it kind of gives you an idea of how the property could be developed. Um there there is the bike path and the former CSX railroad easement uh which you would need to get approval to cross both of them. You can see where it comes in off of Western Avenue and the way the driveways sloped a little odd like that. That's because he's worked with our engineering department and us to make that a little safer so it's not at the intersection where the bike path curves and we avoid some conflict there. So the permit to go over the bike path would be fairly simple. Uh however CSX still has rights to this area and he would need to get approval to get any infrastructure under there. Now, there's already water on the other side, uh, but we're not sure. I I believe he'd be able to hook up to our water, uh, but there's questions with the sewer, uh, and also private utilities like gas and how they would hook up. So, that's not totally been achieved. Um, he'd still have to do some leg work on on getting that done uh, to get the utilities over there. But if he can't, you know, there may be alternatives. Um tying up with um gas with the neighbors at the yach club could be a possibility. He's also mentioned the possibility of um septic. Uh I guess we'd have to look into that whether that's allowed in the city. I I don't know if that's even a an option if you can't do that. Uh probably is though. So there are some issues. Um

but uh the the future land use map does identify this as lakeshore which is defined as mixeduse development and recreation water related activities located along the Moskegan lake lake shore shoreline. Um now single family zoning isn't particularly mixed use uh but I don't think you could develop anything larger on this parcel. So, I think it kind of does go along with the different types of uses that are down there. And we be a good use um to actually get something built on this property, which is probably as dense as you could go. So, uh we do staff is recommending for uh approval of this as long as they can uh figure out getting under the CSX easement and getting their utilities. Um, but I believe we had, let's see, a couple of recommended conditions on a motion, which would be that the applicant receives permission to install all necessary utilities under the former railroad easement within the next 18 months. Um, it's very hard to get a hold of CSX. I believe the applicant might like a little more time than that, so I'd be willing to be flexible. um building permits are issued within 24 months and that the property shall revert back to lakefront recreation if these conditions are not met. We don't we haven't really done conditional zonings, but this was one that particularly interests me uh because if it's not able to be built on by this gentleman, I'm not sure if anyone's going to try to undertake this and uh it may be better served as recreational uses. So, um I'm flexible on the time limits. I don't really care too much too much on how long they would be 2 or 3 years. I I would just like the ability to

put the zoning back to its intended or its original use if this project falls through. Okay, some discussion. Who owns the property? Actually, that's a good question. Uh Kohl's owns the property. Okay. And the property does not have any road frontage. However, um the applicant is a member um of the marina. uh might be part owner. I I don't recall. And um they may be able they're going to be working with them on an easement out to the street for a road. Does Does Kohl's own any property that um accesses a a street that they could provide them a No. No. Uh we could Can you pull up the aerial? I don't believe there's really any way and it's going to be very difficult for them to get this easement in because they're going to have to bring in a lot of fill, I believe. So, and kind of reshape the topography there. You know, I'm I'm I thought I think it's unique what you said about the conditional zoning. Um my concern about that is I don't know the transaction issue between Kohl's and the um applicant but you know if they purchase the property and then for whatever reason can't get the deal done then they don't have a salailable asset at that point. Um that's a good point you know. Yeah. Um that maybe somebody else could get done. I you know I don't know that this is to me um it's not the biggest deal if it remains residential. Somebody else would just have to ask for a reasonzoning if they want to do something recreational. So maybe this isn't the best way to try to champion that at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm just kidding. Any other discussion? All right. Do we have an applicant in the room?

sitting here patiently at their discussion. Hello. Hello. Hi. Hi. I was if you have any additional comments to the information presented. So, it is a small plot and really nothing can be done over there other than a small home and uh I I can undertake it no problem. And actually, I'm under contract. So my contract is expiring on the 15th of July and that's our closing date and the only thing is holding back is going to be CSX but I'm going to hire a lawyer to go after CSX because it's pretty much they're pretty much inapproachable. There is one lady who's in charge of 10 state. So just imagine the crossings. It's it's a lot of crossings. So, we're going to try that approach uh with the lawyers and then I have a phase two coming up in a couple of days and if that's complete and there is no toxicity on the land and I'm go ahead and going to purchase it and uh LIH which is the marina I'm part of and our president is here and couple of other fellow members They were gracious to provide me with an easement, you know, uh to exit and access the property. If something, you know, falls through with me buying it, then I can always like buy out the easement, you know, and then it's so it's not going to be a loss of property like you were concerned about that. What's going to happen at that point? Okay. Any other discussion from

commission? Go ahead. So, so your contract for the purchase of the property expires in July? July 15 is a closing date. Okay. And I thought I heard you say you're going to purchase the property. I mean, that's the Absolutely. Unless unless a property is toxic for some reason. I had a phase one done and the phase one had concerns but they did not reveal any toxicity. Okay. So phase two was recommended and you know I was looking at it if you know water is hard to bring it through then maybe well water that's what I'm going to try to use. So, I'm testing for the soil and the water and um hope for the best, but I won't know that till probably the beginning of July. Thank you. you're gonna you're going to try any as well if if I can get a city water under that railroad track cuz you know CSX is giving you options to work with and you can pick out of their list you know but there is no railroad so how I'm going to go under something it doesn't exist and even if I go under it the way they want me to go under it and they come back with a railroad and the railroad is going to be off by, you know, just a small amount of length, then I'm in trouble again. I got to redo the whole underneath again. So, I um again, and I already said this once before, I worked for public health for 23 years. Part of my job was working in environmental health. I do not recommend using well water, okay, in the city of Moskegan. Matter of fact, I don't even believe it's allowed to do that. So, you will need to hook up to city water and that's no problem. sure that you do that because there was a lot of industry on the shoreline and it's not exactly um I I I wouldn't drink

it. Yeah, I I wasn't going to drink it but um you know just for like shower and things like that. It depends on how it comes back. It's also very close to the high water mark. So I don't even know that you can well below that. Yeah, that's right. So you're you're sitting basically right in the aquifer where it is. Okay. So there's an area between the ground water. I like the idea, but I think it's um I think it's pretty Yeah, he pointed to the far end. Yeah. Okay. Which is uh you know sea level is like 500. Where are we at? Um I do think given Commissioner Mazade's comments too, I don't believe we should do this as a conditional. I think maybe we try that again. We discussed the utilities, right? If if we have the condition with the utilities that's essentially conditional. We don't know we need to add an additional version. Well, it's for the reasonzoning. I think you know if he just finds out he can't get it done. It just stays residential. And that doesn't hurt anything. No. Anyways, so I mean we can change it to something else later. No, I'm just saying I agree. It just stays residential when Right. It's okay. One more comment, sir. Yeah. Uh, so it's probably was lake for lakefront or recreational because it's part of the marina. Mhm. So we didn't I mean I didn't even know about it. It's separate, you know, that's it's in the same fence line of the marina. So we always I always thought it's part of the marina. M and now that it's not, you know, maybe that's why it was M Lakefront Recreational cuz everybody always thought it's part of the marina, but yeah, it could be separated off. Well, that's what you're sounds like you're intending to do. Yeah. Is to purchase it as a separate entity. So, it would not be associated with the marina, but you would need an easement from the

marina in order to access. You have not acquired that yet or is that part of your I I have I have acquired that you know verbally and if my purchase goes through then uh the marina will and I will write up the agreement and the easement okay after the purchase goes through but everything is relies basically right now on that phase two. Okay. Um, and so we do have a public hearing. So I'm going to allow folks in the audience if they have any comments or statements. Thank you. To let us know your You have three minutes to provide remarks. If you have any, please join us at the podium. Go ahead. Thank you. My name is Gary Swindlehurst. I'm the president of the Lakeshore Yacht Harbor Co-owners Association. It's a condominium uh marina. There are 63 slips. So there's 63 individual owned properties all paying taxes and enjoying all the things that Moskegan has. Um maybe shed a little light on how this property developed the way it is. This triangle was part of the marina original development. Kohl's did the marina development. They owned a lot of pieces. They've been carving off things. But um the marina actually got going and was being built and this property was all part of it. But then the family decided they'd like to have a a site for a potential lakefront home, a single residence sometime in the future. So, they drew up this piece and set it aside. Until just recently, um it hadn't been offered for sale in the last year or so when nobody in the family had any interest in building. Okay. So, it became available. Uh we the marine has basically been taking care of the property for over 30 years. So we have a

vested interest in what goes there because it's part of our ambiance. It's it's our northern view. Okay. Our clubhouse is right there. Um the marina board is is very much in favor of this project going through. Um we think it's a whole lot better used to have a single family residence than maybe a dog park. Although we all we like dogs, but there's a big building there with a lot of potential dogs and the line comes right up to our driveway 20 or 30 ft from our clubhouse. We don't want that kind of a development near us. You know, we like the green. We like the way things are. Um, in the event the phase two doesn't go through or for some other reason the Wilhelms have to back off, we're going to step in because it if it is undevelopable undevelopable, um, we might be able to afford it. So, you would pursue it as green space. Pardon? You would pursue it as green space. Yeah, we would we would pursue uh buying it and just merge it back so that it would become one one property again. Okay. Okay. And we have some of our owners here. We have a uh we have owners meetings every six months where we bring up things like this that are fun to kick around. But um we have a meeting Saturday and um I'm sure we're going to get more input because the details of the easement are are coming to the forefront and it's along the north line kind of beyond our our sight line actually. So we won't even see cars going up and down. And there are other issues with our access from Lakeshore. It also is an easement going through a property that was just sold by Coles to a local development firm. They don't know what they're going to do with it yet, but it's possible our driveway is

going to have to move. Okay. And it is possible that we'll be coming back and asking about using this access for the Wilhelms for the marina at some point. So, it's there a whole lot of pieces moving around, but this this one this will be a good use for for the this property. Um, it's low density and you know, it just will be a nice addition. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else in the audience who'd like to comment? We're uh we're also at the marina and just support everything Gary said. did be a great use to have that with just a house on it. Yep. Thank you. Hi, I'm Tom Shod, 1298 Lakeshore Drive. Uh Mary Price and I are here to support uh Gabe and Maju's uh resoning proposal enthusiastically. Um, we've known Gabe and Maju first as neighbors on Lakeshore Drive where they purchased a blighted house on our street and removed it and turned it in now into a a beautiful green space, you know, mostly by Gab's own hard work and labor. And so, uh, um, and I'm sure at one point that'll be a a home site as well. Um, that that's an enhancement to our neighborhood. Um, we also know him as fellow slip owners at Lakeshore Yacht Harbor and they're great. Um, Gab's probably our most active member. He makes me feel guilty of all the work that he does around the marina. So, uh, um, he's always part of part of the group and he's a a great member and so we just wanted to show up and and and say that we're excited about them getting their dream house on the shores

of Moskegan Lake. Thank you. Anyone else in the audience want to comment? Dennis Kirsy, uh, 1856 Cedar, North Mskegegan, but most of you know me and I was pretty much a resident of 1204 Westwestern for over 30 years, uh, operating that. So, I just want to point out a couple roadblocks with this. Just not saying no. I'm just saying concerns. Um, wild water. Jill, thank you for addressing that. It won't happen on that site. Nope. Uh, it's part of the Shawwalker plume. There's groundwater contamination. It's probably low levels, but you're not going to drink that. Um, the site where you're showing the home to be built, that particular spot, that whole burm was the original dredge material from uh what used to be the city dump along that shoreline. So when they put that marina in. So again, you're not going to want to haul it off site, but you're not going to want to I don't think building on top of it is a really good idea. Um unless you're going to do tile structure or something there, but that's again, you got structural engineers can address that. Um, I think repairarian rights that are a part of that parcel are very controlling for the neighbors even though the whole easterly property line of that parcel is owned by city of Moskegan. Um, just in case people don't realize that's fe simple ownership. The city owns that trail. It's not an easement. Um, CSX easement where you have to bridge there. I understand they still have some rights. Um, Marina's Lakesure Yacht Harbor's sewer tie-in is actually right at that southwest corner of Adelaide Point's

office. Okay. Um, it's very shallow and it's going to require some work because when you go back under there, it's a little bigger when you go over to a coal's production facility, but they're going to have to bump up some sewer lines even for a single household because the marina has occasional problems with their sewer making it past that corner of the property line. Um, again, just some concerns that hopefully everybody's eyes are open as they approach this because it isn't just a matter of reasonzoning. Um, I I don't like to see development that close to the water. I think it'd be better as a green belt, but again, that's that's all of you. You get to make that decision. But I just want to raise a few flags just so everybody's aware that it isn't a walk in the park and it definitely is not a green space. Um, it's a brown field and one and hopefully they've I see I see the storm water outfall is on there so they realize that's there. Um, that's Adelaide Points 48 in outfall that uh they kept indicating they owned the parcel when they put that in there. I don't know. Hopefully they got an easement to put it in because it's now there. So anyway, that's all. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? All right, seeing none, I will go to the phones. 231-724-6721 excitement happening on the line. Emotion so moved. I I move to close the public hearing. Support. Support. Motion and

supported to close the public hearing. All those in favor. I. Those opposed say no. All right. So, we've closed the public hearing. Any final discussion from Go ahead. Make a motion to Yes. sandwich. Yes. I' I'd make a motion to I'd move that the request to reszone the property at 1188 Lakeshore Drive from LR to FBCUR be recommended to the city commission for approval. Support including conditions. Did not include conditions. Do you want you wanted to keep that without all conditions? Without conditions. Okay. And supported. All right. Any discussion? Um so what previous speaker was just um alluding to I had questions about myself because I had heard previously about the neighboring property in Rley Point um having claims to own a portion of this early shoreline and I know they've had activity there. You talked about doing a beach there. I don't think the beach would happen. I don't think the eagle would allow that anyhow. Um or there would be other issues with that. But I just I don't know if you have any insights into that. Make sure everyone's had conversations, they understand who's who owns what. There's no confusion of ownership. There's um I I have not talked to any of the neighbors. Um I don't have a survey. It's a private party matter, I guess, wherever the property lines are. But I would say um that there's going to be no development in that area. Um, I know the applicant did notice that Adelaide Point maybe, um, by accident could have placed some of their fill on their land. Um, so I know there's probably going to be at least a conversation with them moving forward. And yeah, I've seen activity

over there, earth moving and other stuff and I' have heard also that, you know, the person doing the moving had owned that property presumably, but I do see from the county property information viewer that it shows Cole's Quality Foods as the owner. Um, so I just want to get clarification. Have we um have any of your other members of your planning department reviewed this in terms of because at one point we were talking about doing a trail head at the end of Western Avenue right there. Um, and I see that would like come close to, you know, where they want to put the easement in the driveway onto Western. So, like, have there been internal reviews of this and discussion in terms of making sure that if we did want to move forward with the trail head um there it would be possible even with the potential for um that driveway, a new driveway, presuming they get the easement from um Yacht Harbor. Yes. So, we did have a pre-development meeting with several departments and uh Dan Vannerhyde was there, so I'm sure he's familiar with the most recent topics as well. Okay. So, I a couple things I guess um after the motion, you know, I appreciate the fact that everybody's rallying around these potential owners, and that's that's a good thing, but it's it to me it's really about is the zoning change that's requested suitable for the property? And it seems to me that this is probably the the best or maybe the only use for this property. Um, and so I think that's a good thing. It sounds like there's a lot of balls in the air in terms of things that have to be taken care of. The applicant mentioned some some of those, others have mentioned some potential pitfalls that have to be addressed. But to me, that's those are things that h the potential owner has to deal with. And

for us, it's really about the zoning. Um, and so I I think it's, you know, a a reasonable request. Um, and so that's why I I sus supported it. The issue about the con conditions, I didn't add those to my motion because I I got the sense from Mr. Franzik that um maybe that wasn't um what we should be doing. So that's what I had to say. Thank you. I just would add the caveat that the current zoning is also appropriate for the just choosing to use it have request a different use. No, I would just concur with Brian. you know, we're we're deciding on use, you know, would this be an appropriate use and whether whether that can come to fruition, those are things outside of our purview and if there's other, you know, major issues, whether, you know, environmental or lot lines or anything else, that'll be handled by the appropriate agencies. And uh also, you know, once uh uh title investigations are done and uh see if there's any other uh you know issues regarding the property or so um one other item to note if this is change to residential I would fully expect there to be a dock permit following that uh they do not apply for that with us commenting that the land use will expand beyond the shoreline I would anticipate as a residential probably so to keep that in mind the applicant has his hand up too but If you want to acknowledge, you want to go ahead and approach some of the sponsors of the gentleman. He mentioned a sewer line over there and uh has problems. I I would have a sewer pump definitely and that was brought to my attention that's a possibility

that would definitely take care of the area, you know, being a long sewer to do that. And so the house position, yeah, I could have it on the top, but then again, I could move down closer to the clubhouse. Uh I don't have a map, but Mhm. So the the entire property is not a hill, so I could I could adjust down toward toward the marina away from the from the hill. So that's not a problem. or just take part of the hill and dispose it was properly disposed and uh the area, you know, the the northern area is I'm not sure if I'm going to hang on to that. I I might even approach Edelite if they want to purchase it, you know, and then it's going to be open and green, you know, and they can they can use it. that triangle the very top of it, you know, right right above the the drain pipe, you know, a light, you know, I I might approach them if they want to purchase it and they can keep their beach and other people are welcome to use it. So, I won't be like, you know, I'm going to fence it off and it's my area, you know, I open to the public. Thank you. Thank you for that color. Any other commentary or discussion on this side? Question for plumbing manager. Um because the desired use can be accommodated with just a simple reasonzoning. That's the preferred route versus a PUD for this because there's not multiple different uses being contemplated in a PUD or could a PUD still be an option?

Well, we have a zoning uh district that would allow them to do what they want to do and also help the city achieve our standards. So, I don't really see the need for a PUD unless you have a specific caveat maybe you wanted to add or Yeah, it was around um veget native vegetation buffers along that shoreline and and preserving that and and landscaping elements to it. I mean, if that's incorporated into underlying zoning or or what. I mean because you know this was lakefront recreation which limited development um on it and um there is a buffer certain amount. Yeah, it's uh we do have that buffer requirement does have to be above the ordinary high water mark to develop on anything and outside of that high area. I don't believe anything is intended to be touched. Okay. And then let's say hypothetically they did want to build it to the max would be the most that they could develop on this site. the maximum size or like you could put multiple houses on there one house. I mean you could use multi-unit according to urban residential form based code. I'm just wondering have you I don't think it's real if we have any kind of assessment in terms of like you know if they were to deviate or or aerial could you go to the aerial for some reason they had to sell the property to somebody else and now it's um urban residential has been built and now we're getting you know a multipplex there. I'm just trying to understand what would be the maximum extent with this property configuration with this resoning that development could occur. That's a good question because we went back and forth on what should we should zone it to. Um and under the proposed

zoning of urban res was it urban residential? Okay. It would be a duplex and an accessory dwelling in it, but I don't think they'd be have the room to do the ADU, especially since you'd have to put it in the back. Mhm. And we discussed maybe larger to kind of fit in with the master plan's goals of mixed uses. And if you did something like a formbbased code neighborhood edge, you could go small multipplex and retail options, but that doesn't seem to fit that size. So that's not what we wanted to recommend. Okay. plan. While it might seem minimal, there will also be a um change to the viewshed along the bike trail. Currently, I believe there's trees and it's kind of an alley corridor. Mhm. Um very, so you may in fact get better viewed if the homeowner decides to remove some of those trees. He actually is. He's told us a couple times he's going to be clearing all those trees out. It's gonna make it safer for the bike um pedestrians, but we didn't even mention it's going to open up the views a lot more too as well. So, um because again, some of these are things that are, you know, adjacent to the actual use, but they're what the community experiences when we make these changes. So, my future anticipation would be should it turn residential, it would would be nice to see, you know, to maintain some vegetation, which is good for the property, but also to allow folks to share that experience. the lake. There's quite a large burm next to that building on Adelaide Point. So bikers usually can't see the water much in that area until you get past that. All right. Where you're talking about where he's wanting to build the house, the burm on the other side of the Well, there's the burm next to the Adelaide Point

Industrial Building to the west of the property. Yeah. On the other side of the bike path. the pre-existing building, the one that existed before. Pre-existing. Yeah. Yeah. Original. So, it's it's when you get further north that you have more view and Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. So, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts and uh still to come if if we do resone it. Um but yeah, I'm trying to stay focused on the resing question as Mr. conver said like it doesn't matter you know number of people that come out and support or oppose it in this case it doesn't you know matter how good of a person you are though I trust you to be a very good person it sounds like you're a great neighbor um and doing good things over there um which I very much appreciate and I would love for you to be um be able to do um build this house uh for you and your family um so I what are we thoughts on the conditions though we don't think there should be any of those conditions that originally I'm recommended by staff I think if we don't build anything, if this house doesn't happen, I I don't believe the the marina intends to build on it. Kohl's doesn't intend to build on it, nor do I think we'd reszone it to industrial. So, if it doesn't, if a house isn't put here, keeping it as ours is fine. Is fine. And and it's simply essentially that comes back to the question um which is does the master plan want us to maintain the original zoning because that is the zoning or do we feel that it is to the benefit of the master plan to allow this change in use? I think it's a benefit of the master plan because it asks for mixed uses. We don't have enough space to put a mixed use here but it's another different type of use along the waterfront. Okay. And there's marinas, there's uh retail now at Adelaide Point, there's condos,

there's a proposed hotel. Uh there's some industrial. So the area is mixed use. Not not this small parcel though. So I do believe it meets the intent of the master plan. Yes, I have a motion and a support. Any final discussion? hearing them going once. Okay. Going twice. I don't I mean, well, I mean, no, I hear you're breathing. It's fine. I mean, I can I can reflect on this further because this still got to come to the city commission. So, if I do think it's appropriate to have those conditions on there after all, I can always, you know, ask the commission to consider that. So, I'm comfortable with the motion as is and I can still reflect on whether those conditions are really important and warranted. Great. Roll call, please. Commissioner Johnson, yes. Ciphers, yes. Ganon, yes. Wlette Loy, yes. Yes. Montgomery Kee, yes. Motion passes. All right. I believe we had one final item on the regular agenda, however, that's been removed. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. The last request, which was that? Oh, item has been removed. Which one's been removed? Uh, so this was the Did I make sure I got the agenda in front of me? Hold on a second. So, we had item E was removed at the applicant's request, correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay. All right. So, do we have any unfinished business? We have a site plan review still. That is new. Well, you put it after new business. I'm sorry. No, you want to move it. No old business. Okay. It should be under new business. New business. We have a site plan review. All right. This is case 2025-24. request for a site plan review for building additions at 2034, 2084, and 2140 Latimer Drive by GE Aerospace.

So, GE Aviation owns all three of these parcels. They acquired 2140 Latimer a couple years ago. So, that's the newest part. Um, the buildings at 2034 and 2084 were combined some time ago. I'm not sure how that was possible because they're three separate parcels. We have noted that to the applicant. There's no reason for them to they said to keep them separate. So they've actually started the process to combine the parcels. Um so they would like to put a 33,800 ft² addition on the back of that main building and they would like to add on to the storage building um a small addition as well and that would actually spill over onto 2040 Latimer. So that's why that one should be combined as well. We've routed this to all the different departments at city hall and it's a pretty straightforward plan. Uh there really are no conditions um or comments. They they are adding a lot of parking spaces too. Um but that also meets the code. They've installed landscape islands and and are proposing trees on there as well. So, uh, everything looks good from a planning perspective, uh, on the addition. Okay. And do we have the applicant here? Hello. Hello. My name is Todd Sty. I'm with Excel Engineering. Prepared the plans. Um, you're representing the applicant. I We have some guys from GE here as well. So, um we haven't even met that yet, but um so yeah, we just yeah, like u was said, it's um fairly straightforward. We are uh we're we're netting 45 additional parking spaces. That's um we're we're

adding quite a few on the easterly site, 113, but we are losing some on the on the west site. So, the net is 45. And we are uh preserving a fairly significant uh buffer of trees along that north uh north of the parking lot. U there is residential property to the north. So that that screening both what's already there on the westerly sites that won't be changing and we're preserving that same width of trees on the on the east side. Yep. We're here for questions if you have any. Thank you. Any questions for the applicant as of now? Okay. And so we're doing um essentially just a site review here, Mike. And then what what action do you need from us today? Uh motion to approve the site plan. I would also add that the condition that the storm water permit needs to be amended that they can do that with our engineering department. Okay. Which I believe they've already started the process. So moved. Go ahead. So moved. Okay. Thank you. Support. moved and supported um to approve the site plan with the conditions that the lots be combined and the storm water permits are amended. Um I did just have one question about the total coverage of non-pervious surface. Did we establish that already? What's the question? I think that they were talking about there's islands um in the plan. I noticed that too. um about the thermo issues. Is there essentially um any opportunity to you mentioned retaining a buffer for the north side of trees um and that there would be this very it's hard to read from the screen. It's very excuse me zoom in. You have quite a few islands in there, don't you? in your in your paper, right?

If if you go to the so there's the westerly two sites that have the you know original two buildings that have been connected. If we could go to that first slide. So actually the entire area where the building's being added is currently black top. So we're not increasing any impervious. In fact, we're decreasing the impervious on on the westerly two sites by adding additional islands and green space along the north edge of the existing building. Um, and then so the the only only the additional uh impervious is on that far east site where we're adding the parking and preserving the u on the on the north. So yes, in total we are, but in the area that's currently all paved and or building that that green space is actually increasing, you know, not by a lot by the the amount of the islands that we're adding and the the green space along the along the building. It's not any worse than it was. And we have current again just because it's a complex diagram and it's zoomed way out. Um we have sidewalk access to the spaces within the park. So I don't know that we do Hard to see. Sidewalk access. Latimer. Just trying to understand whether there were sidewalks along. I think Well, there's the bike trail on the on the other side of the road, right? Okay. Um and so it's unimproved on their side, I'm pretty sure. had any considerations of using the large amount of surface area on your roofs for improving the cooling green space and cooling. Has that been considered at all?

Green roofs or solar. I can't see. I always think I can zoom in. Okay. Any other further discussion? Okay, seeing none. Roll call, please. Montgomery, yes. Mazade, yes. Outroy, yes. Garan, yes. Ciphers, yes. And Johnson, yes. Thank you for your patience today. Thank you for your investment in our community. Yeah. Thanks for sitting through listen to us talk about cats for an hour. Got to think about every detail. We do try. All right. Um we're still in new business technically. One quick question is is what the items that we've received from comments like emails and so on. Are we uploading those into Civicio? So that's now the future part of the packet. Um we can add them in at any time and we've changed it so we can amend things all the way up until after the meeting. So as they come in we'll just throw them in there. My recommendation is simply for a sense of foyer so that maybe we don't necessarily have to retain them. Foyer you personally. Oh there oh what's the No, we don't. Yeah, you don't have to retain them. No. Yeah, the fine file. Yeah, they're on file. They're on file. You don't have to. We will upload them though, I think. So, you can read them though. I think it's useful for the packet information to know, you know, who provided the information that was available to us. Yeah, I think you know, even if it's Yeah. Whatever timeline, you know, cuz I know you try to get it out several days before, if not a week before, you know,

the the planning commission packet. So if you got comments or comments were received at subsequently if they could all be shared or uploaded you know a day before or you know the morning of our meetings or something just so we have more time to to review and process it versus but for public transparency being able folks being able to see what we received if you are able to add it to the meeting information I think would be super useful. Okay. Uh we have any other business? Seeing none public comment. They all left. Yeah, nobody's here. All right, go into the phones. 2317246721. We will wait our minutes. I worried I was going to have to resuggest by All right, everybody's calling in. I'll take a motion to close public comment. Do we even need that? No. All right. Move to move tojourn. Support. I adjourned. All in favor. Hey, thanks guys. [Music]