City Of Muskegon Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Good evening, good folks, and welcome to the City of Muskegon City Commission General Session for this Tuesday, May 26, 2026. Before we get started with our agenda for this evening, I do want to remind folks we have a few different public comment periods, two of which are public hearings towards the beginning of the meeting. Then we'll have a public comment on agenda items before we get into the meat of our agenda and before we discuss and vote on any of the consent agenda or new business items. And then we'll have a general public comment period at the end of the meeting, and that's an opportunity for folks to give input directly to the City Commission on whichever topics they wish to share with the City Commission. During any of these public comment periods, it's a time to give input directly to the City Commission, not necessarily back and forth conversation or Q&A. We can arrange for that to happen at a separate time and place if desired. And during public comment, everyone has three minutes to give input, one time per public comment period. And we accept public comment in person as well as by phone. That phone in number is 231-724-6721. Sharing that just so you have that at the ready. Please do not call in just now. For in-person comment, I encourage you to complete a comment form with the back of the room on that table. Please provide your name and home address. Note, I'll not be asking you to announce your home address. Nor will I be sharing it publicly. That's for our records. I will be calling you up by name and acknowledging if you are a City of Muskegon resident, which neighborhood, you live in, and if you're not a city resident, which other township, village, or city you may be joining us from. So without further ado, we're going to start our evening with prayer, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance, and we have Pastor Adam Dollard from Evanston Avenue Church joining us this evening to lead us in prayer. If you wish to join us in either the prayer or the Pledge of Allegiance, I ask that you stand if you're still capable of doing so.

Thank you for having me. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for this day and just honestly the beautiful weather that we've been having this week. The onset of the summer season for this city when things just seem to come alive. From the markets to the events, God, it's just such an exciting time for this place. And so God, we just pray that you would be over this evening with all of the different conversations and agenda items that are here before these people tonight. God, from the smallest one, To the biggest, God, we just pray that you would be overseeing it and that the decisions made, the conversations had about these things would just contribute to the flourishing of the city and the people that are here, God. And so we just ask that your hope and your peace and your love would just mark this meeting tonight. And God is our church, often prays in Muskegon as it is in heaven. That's our desire here. And so Holy Spirit, we invite you here. We pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

Thank you, Pastor. May I have a roll call, please?

Commissioner St. Clair? Here. Mayor Johnson?

Here.

Commissioner Kilgo?

Present.

Vice Mayor Keener? Here. Commissioner German?

Here.

Commissioner Jackson? Here. Commissioner Cochins? Here.

Thank you. All right, we're going to get right into our public hearings. First one is Neighborhood Enterprise Zone Certificates for 367 East Forest Avenue, 377 East Forest Avenue, 58 East Grand Avenue, 77 Monroe Avenue, and 181 Irwin Avenue. Good evening and welcome. Kindly introduce yourself and please report out on this item.

Absolutely. Isabella Gonzalez, Development Analyst with the City of Muskegon. So, Stephen Homes and Investments, LLC, has submitted five applications for Neighborhood Enterprise Zone Certificates for the construction of new single-family homes located at 58 East Grand, 367 East Forest, 377 East Forest, 77 Monroe Ave, and 181 Irwin Ave. These addresses are located within neighborhood enterprise zone districts, which encourages the construction and rehabilitation of residential housing within eligible communities. So these properties were previously purchased from the city of Muskegon for residential development. As part of the development process, One parcel was split to create two addresses, and one parcel underwent an address change. So there are estimated project costs for the proposed homes, and they range between $125,000 and $180,000. The applicant has paid all required application fees and has met all local requirements for the issuance of these certificates. Pending these are approved, the future property owner would be able to take advantage of approximately 50% off of their property taxes for the requested 15-year term.

Thank you, Ms. Gonzalez. All right, this is a public hearing. So first we're going to open up to the audience, then we'll go to the phones. After we've had the public hearing, Commissioners, I will have the opportunity to close the public hearing and proceed with consideration of the issuance of these NAZ certificates. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to give a comment as part of this public hearing? We don't have any forms on this public hearing, Madam Clerk, either? You don't have anything?

No, we do not.

Seeing no one in the audience, we're going to go to the phones. That phone number is 231-724-6721. This is an opportunity to phone in your input specifically with regard to the issuance of Neighborhood Enterprise Zone Certificates for five properties. It does not sound like we have any takers for phone in common as part of this public hearing. Commissioners, what's your pleasure?

Move to close the public hearing and approve the neighborhood enterprise zone certificates for 15 years for the properties located at 58 East Grand Avenue, 367 East Forest Avenue. 377 East Forest Avenue, 79 Monroe Avenue, and 181 Irwin Avenue, and authorize the mayor and city clerk to sign the applications and resolution.

Support. All right, we have a motion by Commissioner St. Clair, supported by Vice Mayor Keener. I'm going to start with any questions you might have on this. Any questions you might have, Vice Mayor?

Is the developer here?

All right, before we call up the developer, commissioners, do any other commissioners have questions for staff at this time?

All right. Mr. Mayor?

Yes.

I do have one question for staff.

Yes.

Let's just get the staff out of the way and we'll hear from the developer if that's okay. Thank you.

Ms. Gonzalez, with reference to our NEZ zones, do we know how close we are to the cap of 15%?

I am currently working with the Muskegon County's GIS tech to calculate the correct percentage following the recent approvals of new NAZ districts. So my prediction when I initially brought forth those two new district requests would be around 14.1%. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner. Yes, Vice Mayor Keener.

In regards to purchasing properties in any of the zones, what's the ratio of just an individual citizen have purchased over the amount of developers that have purchased?

I could not speak to that as I do not have, I guess, an entire idea of all the properties owned and currently developed within these neighborhood enterprise zone districts.

Is that like some information off? may be able to get, because I think it would be helpful for me to be able to explain from some of the citizens in our community that are a little bit agitated about not being able to purchase properties that are very, very close to them, and they've tried to purchase those properties previously in the past to build on.

I would have to check, but I'm sure we could have a conversation regarding that. Thank you.

Can you just expand on that, because I just want to make sure I understand. Who can get the NAZ certificates, and how are they utilized?

Absolutely, so for any builders or developers out there the city of Muskegon has designated 14 ish percent of our total acreage as any Z district, which means properties within those Districts could take advantage of an any Z appointment whether it's through a rehab or it's through a new construction so we typically see a lot of vacant parcels with new residential buildings that qualify for the any Z new certificates and

The family-occupied housing has to be owner-occupied. It's not a commercial property or developer-owned property. It's the resident that's benefiting from the tax abatement.

That is correct.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? Any first questions for staff before I go back to Commissioner Kilgill? No? Commissioner Kilgill.

Thank you. Analyst Gonzalez, can you explain because I think there's a little bit of a disconnect. So I also do know of some residents who may be interested in purchasing an adjacent parcel to their home or a vacant lot in the city of Muskegon. Can you explain the city's housing policy as far as our vacant lots go, as far as if I'm a citizen and I wanna buy a buildable lot in the city of Muskegon, our current policy says?

I wouldn't be able to speak to the vacant policy for our lots. However, what I do know is we are very open to having conversations with future or potential builders or developers. I know exactly who to reach out to. It would be Ms. Sam Poulos upstairs.

Gotcha.

Our manager can add some.

So our current policy for vacant land is that if someone wants to purchase a piece of property, they can come in and talk to the Development Services Office, if they want to build a house on it and it's a buildable lot. If it's not a buildable lot, then we'll have discussions on it being able to be purchased by adjacent property owners. But if it's a buildable lot, per the Commission's policy, it needs to be built on within a certain time frame. Thank you.

Is that 18 months? Is that the standard time frame? Yeah, 18 months. 18 months, yeah. Okay. Commissioner Coe, you had to follow up?

No, sir.

All right. Any other questions for staff before we ask the applicant to come up? And developer? All right. Sir, please come up. Introduce yourself.

Steve Benedict, 1042 Terrace. Good evening, Mr. Benedict.

How are you guys doing? Vice Mayor Keener.

I just wanted to, unlike Mr. German, Commissioner German, I like to know who's building. And you've been up here quite a few times. Yeah, many times. And I like your process with doing your best to make these houses affordable. I just went to a conference with Jake a few weeks ago with a focus on the entire state of Michigan looking for affordable housing. And they're real good. the reality of even just blew my mind away, the loss in income from just the builders themselves to try to make it affordable. And they even had us do a worksheet ourselves. And it just blew my mind. So I do understand you are trying. It looks like the state of Michigan is really trying as well to bring some innovative ways for you all to be able to build and really be affordable for your everyday worker here, your CNA, your grocery store worker, all of those. But I appreciate you.

Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor Keener. Commissioner St. Clair has the original motion. Do you have anything to ask of the applicant? All right. Commissioner Kilgill.

Thank you. Mr. Benedict, thank you for being here. We've had several conversations before, and I'm glad to see that you continue to build within the city limits of Muskegon. I know in the past you've been frustrated by trying to build affordable housing and not being able to. Can you just talk a little bit about what this NEZ, if you were approved for the NEZ on these homes, what that would do for the possible people who could buy these homes?

Yeah, so I think we built two summers without this certificate, and it was a struggle. Our $285,000 house homesteaded taxes are about $8,500 a year. So you're asking someone to pay $8,500 a year for just property taxes and then 1% city income tax. When they can move into Fruitport, I think I brought you these numbers, and they can have the same house payment and pay $40,000 more for a house and live in Fruitport because of the millage rates. It's helped tremendously. I think there's that more lower end workforce. A lot of the people, like the last round that we did, we did 31 homes and I think there was someone in there that was making around $16 an hour that was able to qualify for a house. We've sold to people that are probably making a half million a year. There was a surgeon that moved into the Marquette neighborhood. I think it just differs. I did just explain to Jake, for the very first time in the four summers we've been doing this program, we did sell to a landlord. Again, I have no control over that. He was not allowed to get that easy, so he's paying non-homesteaded property taxes over on Ducey. But again, by law, I can't discriminate who's going to purchase these, but It's a pretty simple process. So you guys approve it. The state approves it probably four weeks down the road. And then I believe they have one year, the buyer, to submit their paperwork. And I don't know if there's a fee to them or not. So on $285,000, with what you guys are doing, it was calculated last time I was up here, it's about a $400 a month savings. and property taxes. Awesome, thank you.

Now, these ones say that the projected home range will be between 125 and 180.

Oh, that's the build cost.

Okay.

So, on that form, yeah, so on that form, 125 is 888 square feet on a crawl space, and the 180, you know, we built the house for 160 last summer, but now I'm in the historic district, and There's some things you've got to do there. So I added $20,000 to the price. Something as simple as they didn't want white garage doors. So we're going to special order our garage doors. The neighbors are white, but I wasn't going to argue with them about the garage doors. But there's some other things that added quite a bit of cost being in the historic district with the new construction. Yeah.

And... Do you see these being kind of some of the same designs that you've been doing? We only have nine plans, so everything's the same. So price range is? So the 888 square feet will be $199,900. Okay.

And then the 1,848 square feet is $280,000. So between $2,000 and $2,800. Thank you very much. I appreciate you.

Thank you, Commissioner Kilgore. Commissioners, any other questions for the applicant?

Commissioner German.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor. And good evening, Mr. Benedict. Good to see you again. Thought about you the other day. Yeah. Well, it's good to see you back. Thank you. You know, you've been doing this for quite some while, partnering with the city, and I always enjoy seeing you up here because I think – Your intent is genuine when you look to give customers the best product possible. Thank you. You're not building just houses, but you're getting them quality homes where they can have a nice quality of life, but also have something that they can appreciate. Yes. Given that said, most of the questions have been answered, and some of these homes are in my ward. Just looking at the price points, I think, you know, everything's going up, so cost of materials and all of that. Yeah. But you still manage to.

We're trying.

Yeah. So I just want to say I really appreciate that. You mentioned that NEZ certificate program incentive that the city is offering. You've been part of that the last couple of years. When we first started it, it was. pretty much targeted and designated down at Terrace Point, where we were building down there, expanding development there, I should say. One of my goals was to see it segue into the neighborhoods. And I'd like to actually see that more with some of the owners that actually own homes and not building, also to make that more equitable. So that's something that I'm going to also advocate for. But it's good to see that these homes are being built and new home buyers have an attractiveness to want to come here in the city of Muskegon and just be here in the city, in our community. So thank you.

I can tell you when they're outside of the district, they sit. We have two houses that are on the market that have been on the market since last fall. And they're actually two blocks outside of your NEZ zone. So people are like, I'll wait for another one two blocks north to get into that area. All right, appreciate it.

Thank you, Commissioner German. Commissioner Cochin.

Yes, thank you. I want to expound a little bit on Commissioner Kilgo's question in regards to the cost to the builder. You said that the homes for you to build would be between 125 to 180 or so. Yes. Looking at kind of like the breakdown of that over the five houses, it's at the low end $357,000. that you would be making off of those homes if we assumed everyone was sold at $200,000 and they were all $125,000, right? So obviously it could be higher. How big is your team?

We have 11 employees and I think there's probably 15 subcontractors.

And the costs written out there, the $125,000 to $180,000, does that include paying your team and your subcontractors?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

It doesn't include the hefty IRS bill for not renting these out for a certain portion. It's about 42% the IRS takes once I sell.

Thank you, Commissioner Cochin.

Any other questions for the applicant and developer?

No? All right.

Thank you, Mr. Benedict. Thank you. Any final thoughts before we get a vote? All right. Roll call, please.

Mayor Johnson?

Yes.

Commissioner Kilgore?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. All right. Next public hearing is for fiscal year 2026 to 2027 budget. And that's coming from our city manager. It is.

So this is the second discussion for the budget. There'll be two more at the June work session and then, or I should say at least two more. the June work session, and then the first meeting in June where we'll look at possibly passing the budget.

So I did my presentation two weeks ago.

And just to see if there's any questions from the follow-up from that presentation.

First, we'll go to the public for a public hearing to hear if we have any input or questions from the public, although we won't answer them during the public hearing, but there'll be an opportunity for them to be addressed nonetheless. Going to the audience, is there anyone in the audience that wishes to give input with regard to the proposed fiscal year 2026 to 2027 city budget? Seeing no takers, we're going to go to the phones. That number is 231-724-6721. Please turn down any audio in the background. State your name. And if you're a city of Michigan resident, which neighborhood you're calling from. And if not a resident, which other township, village, or city. And this is specifically with regard to a public hearing on the new proposed budget. All right. Does that sound like we have any phone-in comments for this public hearing? Commissioners, what's your pleasure?

Motion to close the public hearing.

Support.

We have a motion by Commissioner Kilgo. Support by Commissioner St. Clair to close the public hearing. All right. Commissioner St. Clair, any questions or thoughts you wish to share? All right. Commissioner Kilgo is the supporter. Anything to ask or add right now?

Yeah, just one question for Mr. Manager. Once we approve the budget and move into our new fiscal year budget cycle, if we see things like we're projecting marijuana tax to be lower next year than it was this year, if we see things like that and our projections were off as far as, hey, we made just as much as we made last year or somehow we made more, I read an article today that said some of the smaller outlying marijuana places are going to close down because of the new higher tax and stuff like that. So they may be consolidating. If they end up consolidating in the city of Muskegon and for some reason, let's say marijuana tax revenue is higher, will we just adjust that budget money and kind of how we may be able to have money to spend in certain places as we go throughout the year? Sure. So...

What we would most likely look at is at the mid-year budget reforecast in January, kind of see where those numbers set and if we need to adjust any numbers up or down. And then if there's any spending that needs to be adjusted as a result of that, we can look at that at that time too. Generally on the revenue side, it's okay to underestimate and get more in. it's on the, it's on the expense side where we want to make sure that we're not spending more than what you guys have appropriated for us. Um, but yeah, we, and, and that is something that we take a look at, um, fairly often on where those numbers are hitting. Like, uh, nice thing about our budgeting software, you can look at where, where you're at this point in the year as compared to last year and then kind of see where things will shake out. So when we were doing our revenue numbers, that's what we do. So, yeah, but yeah, we can, um, I hope that's the case. That would be a good one. And I did want to, not related to Commissioner Kugel's question, but the mayor pointed out an error in one of my notations on the top of page two regarding ARPA money. I said at the time of printing, nearly $1.4 million of the $4.5 million in dedicated ARPA funds has been spent. It should be has not been spent. So we've got $1.4 million of ARPA left to spend before the end of the year. That little knot makes a big difference. But, yes, thank you for catching that.

And those dollars are committed.

And those dollars are committed, yes. They had to have been committed last year and then spent by the end of this year. All right.

Do you have a follow-up, Commissioner Kogel?

It was that. When did they have to be spent by?

Okay, yeah, by the end of this year. And just a little caveat with regard to the marijuana access tax dollars. Hopefully we will see a rebound. Part of the reason why we saw a reduction for this year is because the number of dispensaries in the city of Muskegon as of September 30th, which is frustrating that they might be operating nine months of the year, but they happen to not be open. They suspended operations September 30th. If they're not, And going concern inactive and the permits not active on September 30th of each year, they don't count. And so the state calculates how much gets distributed to the municipalities based on how many number of dispensaries are within their municipality on September 30th of each year. So we saw a decrease of two for this last cycle, one of which is reopened. So hopefully we'll see more money in the future for that. All right. Any other questions with regard to the proposed budget? This will be on our June 9th meeting for formal consideration and vote on adoption. It has to be adopted by state law by the end of June before fiscal year starts July 1st.

Yes, we just put that in there as a buffer in case.

Okay. I do have one question with regard to... Nope. I'm going to hold that off until June 9th. All right. Well, question and comment, but I'll hold that off until June 9th. All right. We have a motion to close the public hearing unless there's anything else from the commission. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Kilgore?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Commission passes.

All right. Public hearing is closed. Now it's time for our federal, state, county, and tribal partners to address the commission if they are present. I don't believe we have any. in the audience. So we're going to go to public comment on agenda items. Before we do that, I do want to recognize that new business item A, Red Dance Agreement discussion, has been removed per staff. So that is not an agenda item for this evening's meeting. All right. I have one public comment form on an agenda item. First up, we have Kevin Murphy joining us from the Jackson Home neighborhood, speaking with regard to the PUD amendment for Harbor 31. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Kevin Murphy. I live at 142 Verdean Drive. I am speaking on behalf of my wife, Ann Murphy, and myself. I am not an architect, builder, planner, developer. I go by the rule of common sense. I was raised when you see something, say something. Thank you for receiving all of my emails over the last two or three months. But I truly believe in the commissioners. I truly believe in Muskegon. I also want to tell you that I believe a picture says a thousand words. You have my pictures. But I just want to say that there are some significant issues are not only the choke point, but also the lazy S regarding on Verdean Shore Drive. It is not straight. When things start growing and building, there's going to be concerns, not at the choke point, but just in general. There's been calculations made with regards to number of on-street parking, and I'll leave that at that. I have shared the information with you and also Harbor 31 leadership, Mike, And I just want to say that, you know, I'm concerned about the card of the choke point, the density going from 20 to 48 units, whereas other developments, I was really excited about Q9, but they went from apartment buildings to townhomes. We're going the other way, and density is increasing. I'm not against either, but I just have some questions. I support development. I support Harbor 31. I was at the groundbreaking, wished everybody well. And, you know, there's something called wetlands. And in the application, it just talked about runoff. It was dismissed as far as an EGLE issue. Again, common sense. I am not an architect or an engineer. And I just want to just respectfully ask that this project go back to planning. And Mayor Johnson, you had asked to be involved with the rules and regulations of the board work, which is private property with public element, and we'd love for you to join the group. But eventually, for five years, I've been waiting for two things. Signs and public access path. If those were put in by the architect, he's not here tonight, I wouldn't be here today. I just need Assurance is that my public prop my private property insurance if someone falls into that That the water with the pilings there's insurance issues and I thank you very much and Look forward to you returning this back to planning. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Murphy appreciate Sorry. No. You're welcome to speak independently. All right. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Appreciate you joining us this evening. And don't forget your... Oh, you can leave it, but just not right there. Thank you. All right. Do you have any other forms for public comment?

All right.

Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to give public comment on an agenda item or items? Welcome, sir, if you kindly introduce yourself, and if you are a city resident, which neighborhood are you joining us from?

I'm Peter Nyblad, 274 Viridian Shores. We moved here two and a half years ago. We're excited to move into a community with single-family homes. Last week, or two weeks ago, you talked about the sports complex and how the apartment buildings didn't fit into that neighborhood of Single-family homes, and I think it's kind of the same thing that we're having over here that You know it's all single-family homes in that area and in most of them are residents and not transient residents or rentals and And I just was kind of voicing my concern on keeping with the like-kind neighborhoods of single-family homes as opposed to apartment complex. And then another thing with the wetlands and the snow removal, I just don't see how he's going to be able to fit all that in there in that space that he has to do that. And after living there for two years, when they have events at the hub, it fills up. And if you take away another half dozen parking spots from there, Expect people to park on them curves. It's not gonna work very well. I Guess those are my two concerns is the parking especially for events at the hub and the Keeping with the surrounding areas of single-family homes Thanks for your time.

Thanks, sir. And could you state your name again?

I didn't catch that Peter and I blood a lot Thank You. Mr. Knife lot

All right. Anyone else in the audience wish to give public comment on an agenda item at this time? All right. It may not get pulled from consent agenda, in which case you wouldn't have an opportunity to speak. So if it does get pulled from consent agenda, there will be opportunity for you to address the commission or the commission can ask you questions at that time. But you are welcome to avail yourself of the three minutes for public comment right now.

Sure, just in case it didn't get pulled off the consent agenda. First of all, Kevin and Missy I have the utmost respect for. I consider them friends. I've been working with them a long time. By the way, Mike Houseman, I'm representing Harvard 31 and the Meadows. and can answer any questions you have about that process. A few things just to reiterate. I am taking personally on getting the signs made. They're in process, and just that'll be done. We've committed to planning that the access will be put in as part of the meadows, so it'll be done this year. And even if the metals didn't go this year for some reason financially, the ramp will be going in as well as the signs. And I've committed to planning and staff to that. And I stick by that. In regard to the wetlands, none of our water will go to the wetlands. These are wetlands we made. and then donate it back as conservation easements to EGLE. So they're monitored, they're monitored for weeds. I mean, I pay to have it checked every year so that invasive species don't go in there. And then they, you know, as far as engineering goes, DPW and EGLE, we have to demonstrate that none of our stormwater grows towards those wetlands to keep them healthy. So there will be a detention pond that's placed in there. And then a little bit of history about the project. Going way back, when this was first approved as a PUD, there was significantly more density. There was 134 apartments designed coming in, along with the hotel, Viridian Shores, Tommy Boats, Trilogy. Since that time, this thing has really evolved, and right now the area where we're going to do the 134 apartments, that's actually dubbing way down to much less density. The original density the first time was 48 units on the meadows. That changed when they said that we had to restore some wetlands, so we chose that area to restore it. So then we've been trying to figure out a pattern to put around it. So it's just been such a long process, not an easy one. And we love working with the city. We love Muskegon. I love Kevin and Missy. I'm not going to let anything happen to them. And we'll continue to work closely with staff and planning and the city to make sure it's done right. It's going to be done right when we're all said and done.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Houseman. Appreciate you joining us this evening. Anyone else in the audience want to give a public comment at this time? All right, we're going to do the phones. The number is 231-724-6721. This is an opportunity to phone in to give comments specifically with regard to agenda items. When you call in, please turn down an audio in the background, state your name, which agenda item or items you're speaking on, and if you're a City of Muskegon resident, which neighborhood you're joining us from.

I have a call.

Good evening, you're with the City of Muskegon City Commission.

Hi, this is Brian from Ward 4. I respectfully ask that items F and J be removed from the consent agenda for further public discussion. I fully support the messages of these resolutions. However, Both include flag displays that appear to violate the city's current flag policy, which was unanimously adopted by the commission in September of 2022. That policy explicitly limits displays to the US, state, county, and city flags, plus limited sister city or dignitary exceptions. Last June, the commission approved resolution to display the Juneteenth and LGBTQ pride flags. Yet in the 11 months since, No commissioner or the mayor has offered any resolution to display any other flags, nor have they proposed updating the policy itself or creating an official path for residents to request flag displays. As a result, for example, the Grand River bands of Ottawa Indians have no official way to request their heritage flag be flown in October during Native American Heritage Month. The same is true for Women's History Month in March. Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month in May, Hispanic Heritage Month, Disability Pride Month, and others. None of those flags are currently permitted under the policy and there is no process to request them. It is appropriate for the mayor and commissioners to approve only the flags that represent them personally, or should the city create a fair, transparent process so all residents can request displays. I respectfully ask the Commission to direct staff to develop such a process. In the interest of good faith and equal treatment for all of Muskegon's vibrant identity groups, I would also ask that the Mayor and Commissioners refrain from proposing resolutions to apply any flags that are prohibited by the policy they themselves enacted until such a process exists for everyone. Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you for finding your perspective. I didn't hear anyone else trying to call in at that time, but we'll give it a while longer. All right. No further calls?

No, ma'am.

Commissioners, you've got an opportunity to review the consent agenda. Are there any items that you wish to have removed for a separate discussion and vote? Commissioner German.

Yes, thank you, Mayor. Item F, H, and I.

Commissioner Kochan.

Yeah. Items D and J.

And Commissioner Kilgore. Item C. Any other items, commissioners, you wish to have removed for separate consideration and vote?

I knew it was the ones that were called.

The ones that have been called thus far are items C, D, F, H, I, and J. All right. If there are no others, then I'd welcome a motion to adopt the consent agenda minus those items I just referenced. C, D, F, H, I, J.

Okay. Support.

All right. We got a motion by Commissioner German supported by Commissioner Kilgore. If there's no final thought or quick thoughts before we vote, all right, roll call.

Commissioner German?

Yes.

Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson?

Yes.

Commissioner Kelgo?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Mission passes.

Thank you. First item, C, amendment to the zoning ordinance, several changes to the form-based code. This is a second reading, meaning it had come to us at our last meeting for a vote. Commissioner Kilgore.

I move to request to amend section 20 of the zoning ordinance to edit several areas of the form-based code be approved as presented.

Report.

All right, we have a motion by Commissioner Koza, a support by Commissioner St. Clair. Good evening. Kindly introduce yourself and please report out on this item. Good evening. I'm Jamie Pesch with the Planning Department.

And this is an update to a lot of different parts of the form-based code. It's more or less our 10-year update, so to speak. The form-based code was adopted in 2015. and there have been a variety of things that have happened, rezonings, we've created the Lakeside form-based code, and we are now trying to simplify the ordinance to really only regulate the things that need to be regulated. We've had a lot of experience with different development projects, mainly in the downtown, but also now in Lakeside over the years, and we have taken notes in that timeframe and decided to propose these amendments If there's any specific amendments that you'd like to talk about, I can. There's a lot here and it's kind of hard to summarize just because there's so much to discuss there. But overall, we're trying to eliminate a lot of redundancies. That's what you'll see a lot of in this plan. The way that the code is written is quite redundant, which was helpful at the time, but as we move to more of a digital world, things like that become more cumbersome to navigate for our residents and developers and everybody that uses the code. And so we're really trying to simplify things down and, like I said, only regulate the things that really have an effect on the city and the way people experience it.

Thank you, Mr. Pesch. Commissioner Kilgall. Thank you, Mr. Pesch. And thank you for being here tonight. Would you say that we contract SafeBuild to enforce these zoning updates and form-based code and stuff like that?

Not SafeBuild. So all through the planning department. All of our zoning ordinances are specifically through the planning department.

Perfect. So it has come to my attention that recently we're now enforcing parts of the form-based code that let's say we previously weren't enforcing. And I just want to make sure that if we, I've thoroughly read through this and the updated language does make it easier to read. So I'm glad that we're going to do this update. I just pulled this item so that we could make sure that we are consistent with some of the developers that are coming into Muskegon, whether they're Small developer and they're building one or two homes or they're a large developer and they're doing big projects that were consistent with the way that we are enforcing these as far as Approving their builds or not or improving giving them the go-ahead to build based on our form base code So I am glad to see the the THE EASIER LANGUAGE BECAUSE FOR SOME OF THOSE NEWER DEVELOPERS OR MAYBE NOT SO EXPERIENCED DEVELOPERS, THEY'RE ABLE TO READ IT AND SEE WHAT THEY NEED TO DO AND NOT DO AS FAR AS BRINGING NEW PLANS TO THE CITY FOR WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO BUILD. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, AS FAR AS THIS, WE'RE CONSISTENT WITH HOW WE APPROVE AND EXECUTE WITH THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN LOOKING TO BUILD. SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER KUGO. COMMISSIONER ST. CLAIR, ANYTHING TO ASK OR ADD AS THE SUPPORTER OF THE MOTION?

YES, PLEASE. SO I KNOW THIS IS THE SECOND READING AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS. I don't know, two weeks ago, last month, sometime, quite recently. And I think that you've made it fairly clear that these are not massive changes. These are clearing up overlaps and obsolete zoning language that no longer is applicable. Is there anything in here that does not fall into one of those buckets.

Probably the most dramatic change is removal, and that is the section on the public realm standards. That deals with things in our public rights of ways, so where streets and sidewalks are. That was a fairly significant section of the ordinance, but a lot of that is housed in our engineering and public works departments, and we're working separately on street design standards that would more or less replace that. The way that it's written, all of that section is more or less recommendations.

Okay.

That appears to be a dramatic change just because the quantity of texts that disappears from it, but seeing as they're all not necessarily requirements and more recommendations, it doesn't really have that much of an impact.

And those things generally live someplace else. Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.

Commissioners, anything else to add or ask at this time? Yes, Commissioner Kochen.

I do just want to echo Commissioner Kilgo's sentiment because I hear it in regards to safe-built typically, but making sure that we are enforcing the codes the same way across the board I think is really important, so I wanted to echo that. Thank you.

Commissioner Kochen, if there's nothing else... Roll call, please. Thank you, Mr. Pesch.

Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Commissioner Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Kilgo?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. Next item, D, Amendment to the Harbor 31, Planned Unit Development. This is a second reading. Commissioner Cochin.

Yes, I move the request to amend the Harbor 31 planned unit development for a new residential development at 170 Verdean Drive and to amend the waterfront access paths within Harbor 31 be approved with the following conditions. The stormwater permit must be updated with the engineering department. The certificates of occupancy for the meadows are not issued until the western path to the boardwalk is constructed and usable and includes a public access sign.

Support. All right, we have a motion by Commissioner Kochan, supported by Commissioner Kilgore. Good evening, sir. Can I introduce myself and please report out on this item?

Mike Franczak, the Planning Director. I don't have anything new to add, but I'd be happy to answer any questions for this 48-unit condo development.

Okay.

Just for the audience at home, could you just do a very quick summary of what this entails?

Sure. So there's going to be four separate apartment buildings, 48 total units, about 1.6 parking spaces off street for each one. The middle of the property contains a wetland designated by the state of Michigan, which prohibits development on And as the developer spoke earlier, they are working with EGLE and our Public Works Department on the stormwater management plan that will prohibit anything from entering that area.

Thank you, Dr. Franczak. For anyone that may have not been tuning in previously this evening, I wanted them to have some context. Commissioner Cochin.

Yes, thank you. Director Francik, the developer, when he came up during that three minutes to speak, had mentioned a retention pond. I didn't see that anywhere in the drawings. Do you know where that's supposed to be?

The retention pond, I don't believe is a site, is it? We pull up the site plan.

Sure.

So, yeah, there won't be an actual pond, but it infiltrates. The water infiltrates the groundwater and cleans itself before it releases out into the pond.

Okay, I see. All right, that would explain why I couldn't find it on the map.

I was a little surprised by that, too, because I didn't see that on there.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that. Okay, the only other question I guess I have is at the last meeting, and I know at the Planning Commission meeting, it was brought up about the dumpster locations and the proximity to the wetlands. Has there been any progress in that conversation, or is it still the same?

It's still the same. I believe one of the Planning Commissioners made a recommendation. They weren't At the meeting, but I believe it was over the phone. Ultimately, that condition was not placed on there by the Planning Commission.

Okay. All right.

I would like to note that it is screened, though.

Is what?

It's screened with the privacy fence, so it should cut down on any of the debris flowing into the wetlands.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Cochin. Commissioner Kilgore?

Thank you. Director, last meeting we talked about how I have the full confidence in our planning commission, and they've looked at this several times. You know, it's come in front of us, the big Harbor 31 down to Viridian Shores and the Meadows and everything individually. I am still having some reservations about...

What is it called?

It is Viridian Shores Drive. Is that going to be the name of the street that's on the north end of the Meadows that comes off of Viridian Drive? Is that going to be – it has a separate name?

Between Vita Nova, Parmenter, and the Meadows, that roadway?

I believe that's just a private drive. I don't believe it has a name.

We'll have some kind of name. I don't know. What is it?

I don't believe there's a name on it.

Okay, so it does have a name. It's Viridian Shores.

Okay, so Viridian Shores versus Viridian Drive.

Yep, so separate street from Viridian Drive. I'm still having a problem with the topography of the road, the way that it comes in and then jogs to the left if I'm going to Let's say I'm going to visit someone that lives in Viridian Shores. It is very narrow in there. And I am just wondering, the biggest, or it looks like from the designs, one of the bigger apartment buildings at the Meadows is going to be there on that north side. And I do see it becoming a problem, or at least that one has the biggest parking lot. So the people who are parking in there, whether it's the residents or visitors, or that parking lot will accommodate two of the buildings. They'll be coming out onto that narrow road so that we don't have minor accidents or major accidents, have we thought about the increased traffic that Meridian Shores Drive is going to get. So that's one of my issues. And then another one of my issues is The gentleman that came up and spoke at public comment kind of reiterated what I said a few weeks ago. I did used to have an office at the GVSU Innovation Hub. And when they do have events, traffic flows out onto Viridian Drive where people are parking on the street. And on a normal day, one car going eastbound and one going westbound, they can travel no problem. But when you have cars parking along Viridian Drive, so is our plan to put up no parking signs along Viridian Drive? Or is there any plan for overflow parking in general, whether it's for the Meadows, the hotel, GVSU Innovation Hub, things like that? Was there any conversation about overflow parking in general?

Yeah, so the parking will be allowed on Viridian Drive on the south side. of the street. There will be some additional parking spaces on the north side around this development that will be in the terrace but the overflow parking for any development really would be the south side of Viridian Drive and both sides of terrace on all of Viridian Drive we counted about 61 parking spaces. That's the plan for any development that would have excessive parking. Now this particular development has, like I said, 1.6 parking spaces. Um, that's actually more than we even allow in our form based code, which is the underlying zoning district for this, which only allows for one. So this, this allows for more parking than we would allow for in our downtown.

When you say allow, do you mean recommend? Because if I wanted to build a development that had two parking spots per unit, like let's say I built a duplex and I had two parking spots per unit, and our code only says you have to have one, I couldn't build it because I wanted to have two? Correct.

In our downtown area where parking lots and street parking is prevalent, we want to keep that space open. open for development rather than for storing cars. So we actually have a maximum. Whereas most of the city, you have a minimum where you have to provide that many, our downtown form-based code actually has a maximum. It's one per unit.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Kogel. With regard to roads, though, could perhaps Director Vanderhyde, because I know this came up at our planning commission and we discussed the roadway. There were some concerns from Public Works as well. And so if you could just clarify as to the conversations that happened subsequent to that planning commission and now.

Certainly. Dan Vanderhyde, Director of Public Works for the city. We did have some discussions at the planning commission meeting about plans I guess Verdean Shores Drive, if that's the name of the private drive along the north side of the development. Specifically, my concerns were that the way the road has sort of evolved over time is that it appeared to, if you were headed westbound, it appeared to end in a fence and hydrant. And there was a lack of signage and a lack of cohesion kind of to the road. After working through it with the developer and their engineers, The version that's before you tonight was agreed to with some additional signage and things that the developer mentioned they're preparing. And so, you know, my concerns with the road were satisfied.

Yep. Okay.

So your outstanding concerns were resolved.

Okay. Any questions for Director Van Hyde before we go back to Director Francik?

Oh, yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Director Van Hyde, thank you. That approval, was that approved by planning?

As I understand it, the Planning Commission put a condition on the Planning Commission approval that was to work with engineering, or me as the city engineer, to make sure that I was comfortable with the plan. So by approving it with that condition, then once I was satisfied, then the plan was effectively approved by the Planning Commission.

That condition was resolved.

Okay, so it didn't necessarily have to go back to planning.

anything that's not correct that's my understanding yeah okay but okay I guess my question now is because there is some concern from what I hear from the public participation from residents we did hear also from one of the speakers that though some of those issues are being resolved Do you see any, I guess, conflict? Because there seems to be something that's not all the way complete, I would say, because residents are here. And I just want to make sure that we hear them and make sure that everything that they're speaking on is in, I would say... in their interest, but not only that, making sure everything's in compliance, I should say. So I just want to make sure that everything is in compliance and that when we go back to do this or continue the development, signage and all of that stuff, there's no, you know, remorse or anything like that. Sure.

I know during that Planning Commission discussion there was some, you know, discussion of trying to make the road straight. And for various reasons, we didn't achieve that, and we elected to allow it to remain with the curves that are proposed in it today. With that signage that I mentioned, I don't have any concerns about that. My main concern was to make the road safe, and the design that's been presented here does that via signage, if not as much by making the road straight. But of course, we have curved roads all over town, and Verdean Drive is shown curved here, of course, so You know, with proper signage, there's nothing suggesting that the curve can't be there. We just have to make sure that it meets the standards, and this version does. Okay.

Thank you. And last question. Safety, that's a major concern. Where are we at with that from your expertise?

Yeah. Yep. Again, I think with the signage that's going to be provided that will prevent folks from, you know, thinking the road is straight and proceeding accordingly, they'll understand that there is a bend in it. and that they'll need to follow that. I think that's the right way to do it.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And with what's proposed with this site plan and this amendment to the PUD, that roadway, that curve, has been lessened. The slope has been, or the It's not as extreme or to the same extent as what exists currently. So even if this isn't a straight pathway, which some of us think is preferred, that's my personal preference, it is an improvement over what exists currently.

I believe so. It's a little difficult to tell with the plan because we don't see the pavement joints and things on there. But the way that it is laid out, if constructed that way, is... Definitely meets the standards and I believe could be a little bit less, I'm not sure what the right word is, a little less.

More gradual.

Yeah, a little more gradual or a little more natural than it appears today. And again, the signage will help with that.

Okay. Thank you. And like I said, this is my personal preference, but as I said at the planning commission meeting that I understood what was proposed and what mattered to me was that you and our engineering department had an opportunity to review it and resolve any concerns that you had with it. So I'm satisfied. Commissioner St. Clair.

Thank you. We get a lot of feedback from the community about... roads being too fast and needing traffic calming devices put in. And one of the things that I was thinking as I was reading through this and listening to the public comment is it sounds like this will act as a natural traffic calming device. Am I thinking correctly with that?

Yeah, I think it could definitely have some traffic calming effects, just not letting folks get up to a higher speed than perhaps they ought to, given the surroundings, yeah.

Thank you.

That's a good point. Thank you, Commissioner St. Clair.

I hear a lot of that, speed bumps and stop signs.

I mean, that's been proposed as a potential solution for inducing speed calming elsewhere.

For many straight roads, they would really like us to do something to slow traffic down, so this could turn out to be a blessing.

Thank you, Commissioner St. Clair. Any other questions for Director Vanderhyde? Thank you, Director Vanderhyde. Commissioners, do you have any questions for Director Francik before I call up the developer?

No?

All right. Mr. Houseman, if you could return to the podium and once again introduce yourself.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mike Houseman. I am representing Harbor 31. the Meadows, and I represent Brady and Shores as well, the overall Harbor 31 development. I'm here to answer any questions you have. We definitely, we are 100% want to be good neighbors. One thing I just wanted to mention, I mean, that drive is, we're not changing the drive for this development as part of this plan. That's how the drive was, it's put in for Brady and Shores. So we're not changing it. It's already been approved before for Viridian Shores, knowing that there was another phase coming with the meadows.

So this version doesn't have any changes? Because what I saw, the planning commission looked like that it was more gradual.

Yeah, I don't know if you can pull Google Earth, but if you look at it, it's how it sits today, and we're not changing it.

Yeah, and there's still a slope, but from what I remember seeing the difference, it was gradual. A little bit more gradual, a little bit easing into it, and that's what I thought I heard from the architect as well. At the Planning Commission.

Yeah, there'll be a drive off of that private drive into the new parking lot. And there is some slope in that area where the parking is because, you know, we can only build within like five or six feet of that fence. That fence has to stay there. And so based on that, the parking lot will be sloped, but the drive won't change. Herb cut comes right off of that drive.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Hausman. I'm going to hand it over to Commissioner Kilgore. I'll pull up a Google map and compare. Commissioner Kilgore.

Thank you. And thank you for being here, Mr. Hausman. Yeah. You were here two weeks ago also, correct? No, that was Dan, my partner.

I was actually at another city meeting someplace else.

Well, when Dan came up and spoke, he did also talk about being good neighbors with the fourplex that was there before Meridian Shores and some of the other ones. And I thought two weeks would be a good amount of time to say, hey, have we made any progress on discussions? And I know you may personally have discussions with the owners of the fourplex, but I guess now to ask specifically, how does Harbor 31, the Meadows, Verdean Shores work? plan to deal with their neighbors at the fourplex as far as being that 100% friendly neighbor and getting things done. Now, I'm not saying the fourplex is going to get everything they want or that Harbor 31 is going to get everything they want, but I do believe that there needs to be discussions on certain things. Hey, here's how we're going to move forward. Here's how the boardwalk or here's the plans for the signage for the public access or different things like that. I just want to know how we're moving forward as that good, friendly neighbor.

Well, that's a great question. And first of all, I'd say that I've been brought deeper into the picture to deal with a lot of this to make sure it gets done. I think Kevin will admit that my partner, Dan... said, and maybe in an email, he said, Mike's going to grab a hold of this because he gets S done, or S-H-I-T done, whatever. I don't want to say that out loud. And I intend to get it done. And I have been talking with Mr. Murphy, and he brought his sign. I'm waiting for a proof of my sign, but those are on order once I approve the proof and he approves it to get the signs up. I've been working through different designs for access. It's not as easy because it has to be handicap accessible, at least at one point. But it's my commitment to Mr. Murphy and to staff that that will be done this year. And I personally gave that commitment to staff with City of Muskegon. It's been on my mind a long time because, you know, right now you just can't get up there. For sure.

You have to be capable, let's say, to get on the boardwalk. But also, so for me, from a city standpoint, we told the public, hey, you're going to have public access there on that boardwalk. And then residents who already live there, they have to be Good neighbors and deal with whoever's coming to that boardwalk. Yes. We now have people that already live in Veridian shores right on the lakefront. They have to deal with the public who may use that boardwalk. So. I see the signage is as priority, like, moving them up the list so that. then the public's there, we can point. And I know that these are just rough drafts, right? This is his version. But we could point to whatever that sign is and say, hey, there's no swimming or there's, you know, the noise level here. And hours of access. Hours of access, right? So then they can sleep at night and they can sleep at night and not have to worry. Who's out back? You know, it's 1130 at night. Right. Those are the things that we all want to see, I think. So I would ask that we make those things a priority, working with our neighbors so we can get those things done and move forward.

You have my firm commitment on that. I have two signs that say public access because we want to keep that pure. And then we have the Harbor 31 signage. We'll have four of those. I think I have them ordered three by four. I want to be careful because you know how the winds are out there. It's like put up something too big it's just going to lay it right down but it will be done this summer and it likely be done well before we even start the Meadows. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Commissioner Kilgore. Commissioner Cochin.

Yes, thank you. I would like to echo Commissioner Kilgore's sentiment about making sure that the public access signs get put up immediately. There's a lot of times that I have conversations with the city manager about making sure that the city has the proper signage up and will continue to harp on that. So I want to make sure I'm being fair. So we want the signage.

Yes, absolutely.

And we want that to be a priority. The other question I had is in regards to the wetland there. I was looking at the drawings, and you were talking about the snow storage in the green areas. And I believe Director Francik had mentioned that there's going to be some kind of fence up there. What kind of fencing are we putting up exactly?

The fence is already there. Okay. We had to put up a two-rail fence as part of the conservation easement. And both, we've had to provide two conservation easements. For some reason, the larger one to the east is more restrictive than this one. But neither can ever be in the possession or built on ever again. And we have an obligation with the Department of EGLE, I guess you'd call it, to not only keep it clean but keep it healthy. And there's postings throughout and several locations that indicate.

Yeah, I think I'm probably going to have to do another drive by there because I don't recall seeing fencing, but I've got a five-year-old who's doing a lot of screaming.

Oh, did you?

That could be something that I missed.

4,000 foot of fence that we put out there.

Okay, doing my little drive around. You said it's two...

A two-rail fence.

Two-rail fence, okay.

Yeah, it's not a chain-link fence. We wanted it to look good. We wanted it so it looks homey, like you'd see something out in nature. We actually went through a big deal with Eagle on the habitats out there. You see, like, fallen trees. They were put there on purpose. That's part of the design. And then the plants that we picked, we tried to pick wetland plants that would have some color. There's not that many. And then I also chose wetland bushes that wouldn't get too tall.

Mm-hmm. Okay, I appreciate that consideration. I don't believe that a split rail fence is going to keep any trash from blowing into those outlets.

No, I can't say that it will do that great of a job, but having buildings around it will definitely help.

Sorry, just to clarify, the split rail fence is not for the trash receptacle. That's just the perimeter of the regulated wetland area. So I think there's...

Okay.

Asking and answering two different things. Ah, gotcha, I see. So, Director Franzen, or perhaps you can speak to the proper shielding around trash receptacles.

There will all be trash enclosures around every dumpster location. And our management, so they're somewhat the same. We don't want trash into the wetland area, the grass area. And we could get fined, or whoever is managing this could get fined by EGLE if we let trash get in there and don't take it out.

Mm-hmm.

It's already happened with Trilogy a few times. Like once or twice a year we have to, I call them.

I remember finding construction material in there.

Exactly, and they have to go in and get it out. As far as the trash receptacles, they are all enclosed with a gate in front.

Yeah, and that definitely helps. But when the trash truck dumps, it lifts that dumpster up into the air. And then it has to fall through a roughly 3x3 or 4x4 hole. And so being on the lakeshore, there's a lot of wind, as you mentioned. And that's going to cause things to blow. I see it happen all the time. I used to work for the trash company, so I know all about how that happens. And having to call the drivers up and go, Hey, we need you to go back out and get these things. These bags fell out kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's still definitely a concern of mine. And the other question that I first started talking about was in regards to the snow storage. So it looks like that's abutting up in that just almost to the edge of that wetland area. And I have concerns about the salinity increase because obviously you guys are going to salt. I would be shocked if you didn't. And so having the snow storage in those spots right at the edge of the wetland will increase the salinity in the wetlands. Do you have any plans to continue monitoring that with EGLE throughout time?

I don't specifically have plans to monitor that. I'd like to step back to the trash part. We have to deal with that already. I mean, with those winds out there, there's stuff blowing through there all the time. I think actually having buildings there will actually help protect it a little better from paper getting in there. As far as the salinity or the snow plowing, wetland, I mean, for some reason, Eagle doesn't necessarily care about the quality of the soil because this is all contaminated. The soils were. And I remember having a conversation with them about contamination do you want wetlands that are contaminated and they're like yeah now now i'm not saying i'm going to contaminate them but they don't seem to want to address or care that if i put snow there and it happens to have some gravel or maybe some salt that they're concerned about that and i have a consultant peterson consulting i talk with weekly and she does all my monitoring of the wetlands i can run that by her to see what further concerns they might have but it's likely that they probably wouldn't.

Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you.

But I respect your concern too.

On that topic, you've already been permitted by EGLE for your previous plan of construction there. For this new, since we're evolving, do you have to go back and get that permit amended? Has it already been amended?

No, it does not have to be amended as long as we stay like a couple feet away from that fence. That fence is already designed to be a couple feet off of. When staff sees our plans, the exact edge of that wetland conservation easement is all mapped out. including camera locations where they can come in twice a year and take photos from the same locations every time. So it's pretty heavily monitored, to say the least, by them as well as my consultant.

Thank you, Mr. Housman. And for anyone, because we keep on using the acronym EGLE, for anyone who's not aware, EGLE is the State's Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy. Energy.

Everybody still wants to say DEQ.

Oh. Thank you, Mr. Housman. Any other questions for the developer? All right. Thank you. Director Vander Heiden, we could have you come back. I just want to get some clarification with regard to the roadway because I heard from Mr. Hausman that he doesn't anticipate that changing, but in seeing the site plan in the amendment and seeing the Google Act, this definitely is the distinction between the two. Can you, from your perspective and your understanding, can you elaborate?

Sure. So he's correct that it is not changing much or the plan doesn't show it changing much. There is right now the existing private drive. Oh, look at that. Technology is great. So I sketched that a few seconds ago in the back. So you can see that the drive right now kind of makes a rather sharp transition from old to new, and the site plan shows the curb that is kind of on the right half of this picture where it joins up with the red line. It's going to be a swoopier line, I guess is the layman's way to say it, and that curb then will follow a more natural roadway alignment and signage then will help clarify that. The pavement joints, you know, will be what they are, and they can appear misleading, I suppose, but in terms of the path of vehicles, you know, the space will be there for them to follow an alignment like the red one there on the screen.

Okay, thank you, Mr. Manager.

And just to build on Director Vander Heide's comments, if you were to go look at Google Street View or to go drive down there now, the curb and gutter, when you're turning into Parmenter's parking lot, stops about where that red line starts. So when you talk about the realignment, there wouldn't be realignment of the existing curb and gutter in that area. It would be a continuation and the swoopiness of it. So everything that's kind of adjacent to that red line is just sort of a soft shoulder, for lack of a better term, at this point in time.

With that additional context, now we understand why both are correct, the development applicant in terms of what he's saying, as well as what Director Van der Heide and Mr. Manager are sharing. How do you get to talk? Sorry, we're not engaging from the audience right now. I can speak with you after the- No problem. Can you pull that one up? So, Director Van Hyde. Anything else to ask of Director Van Hyde? No? All right, thank you. I do have a question for Director Franzen. Also, with regard to roadways and driveways, because we've heard several times tonight this being referred to as a private driveway. And I just wanted to get confirmation that even if it is a privately owned and maintained roadway, we do have a public easement on the roadway such that it's not a gateless gated community.

That is my understanding, yes. Okay, can we double check that because I've been very keen on it. I'm an appropriate person, but yes, it is open to the public.

Greg, I'm sorry, I should have not excused you just yet.

Yeah, so it's a private road, meaning that the underlying property owners or condominium association, and it can vary. but hold the property under that road. The access it provides is governed by a condominium document, a plat, things like that, that define access over that area. I haven't seen the specific association documents or anything that govern this particular road, so I can't say for sure that I've seen that, but my understanding is the intent would be that all of the various parties to that drive, including the public, if that was part of the original PUD condition, would have access via one of those legal documents.

Okay.

And really that's just to say that without reviewing them I can't confirm it.

Yeah.

But my understanding is that you know, those documents are in place or will be at the completion of the development.

Yeah, and even if it were contained in those documents, those documents are subject to change in the future. Whereas in the past, when we've had PUDs or, you know, developments and the developer wants to do private roads, I've always advocated that there's public easement. That we're not going to be creating gateless, gated communities in our city. And so, I actually had added the conditions in the past for private roadways that they are being publicly accessible. So, I guess I'm not getting the reassurance that this is codified and we can hold, we can enforce that this is going to be a public roadway.

And I was not involved, you know, with earlier iterations of the development long ago, right? So it's possible that those statements are included in those documents. I just can't say it for sure myself. Okay. Yeah.

That's why I was hoping Director Franzen might recall if it were attached as a condition in the past. Mr. Hausman might be able to chime in here. Thank you, Director. Oh, did you have something for Director Van Huy before I call up Mr. Hausman?

No, I was just going to ask if we couldn't get clarification if we could table it because I don't think we should be voting on it if we don't have that clarification.

Okay. Mr. Hausman?

Just to clarify, these are private roads, but they have public access. So, for example, I can't do an apartment or a condominium association that have a private drive, but, I mean, if it wasn't open to the public, you couldn't have guests in your, it would be a gated community. So these are all set up as public access. Chris Kelly from Palmetto Tools set that up long ago with all of these private drives coming off so that they do have public access. And we can provide that to staff. In fact, they, I'm sure, have it on file from previous applications.

Thank you, Mr. Houseman. I kept on hearing that it being referred to private, private, private, because I just wanted to get confirmation that even if it's privately owned and maintained, that it is publicly accessible.

Absolutely.

Particularly because we do have that public boardwalk over there. All right. Commissioner German? Oh, yeah.

No, just a comment. Thank you, Mr. Houseman. And that was one of the major concerns before a lot of this development started down there, to make sure that there's public access for the public, and that public, I mean, that private driveway that you were just talking about, and you're working out the legal ramifications for it, and that's already been set, or, and If there's nothing in writing that guarantees that, though, that we can look at as a body of government, how would we know that it's been legally approved for public access?

I think the manager wants to chime in.

Yeah, so this was all laid out in the original documents 20 years ago. Nobody on staff in the planning department or manager's office was here when that occurred, but I know that the fact that Parmenter's there and Chris Kelly's diligent and all those type of things, I trust that that's the case. So I think moving forward with it in the way that it's currently proposed makes sense. There's a lot of roads throughout this development that would be in similar circumstances or access points, however you want to say it. So I think we can move forward with reasonable confidence that this is the case.

Thank you, Mr. Manager.

And just one other thing, because it gives me pause a little bit, but it also reminds me of a similar issue that we just went through not too long ago about access to a public drive. So I just want to make sure that we don't fall into that situation again. Again, how can we guarantee... Even though this was set up 20 years ago, this is 20 years later with new development and owners. And just to make sure that we have something set in stone or writing, how can we get that? Or is that something that we can request and recommend that make sure that this is public, have public access to this?

We're not going to get that question answered tonight. We don't have access to the documents. This is a second reading. So you guys would be passing what you've already passed once before. If you counsel, I don't know if they were to add another recommendation as far as a condition. that it confirmed to be public, then I believe it would have to pass unanimously or it would have to go for a third reading. So because this is a second reading, we need four yes votes to pass what you guys previously passed in the last meeting. Okay.

I'm going to ask you, City Manager, as well as you can sit down, Mr. Housman, if you don't mind. Director Francik, I'm going to ask the both of you. If we were to add just a simple condition saying Verdean Shores Driveway or Verdean Shores Road shall be publicly accessible. Simple. Do you have any misgivings, reservations, or concerns about something just simply stating Viridian Shores Drive shall be publicly accessible?

I don't have any reservations. In fact, you kind of jogged my memory. When we've had developments like this, you have always stated that you wanted it to be private private drive that is publicly accessible. So from my memory, every development that we've done since many years has always contained that language. So I do believe that's the case and I wouldn't have any problems. but that being in there.

This is what I want to clarify. Yeah, you're right. Every time there's a development that says private driveway or private road, like I always do speak to having that language recognized that it is publicly accessible, including the one I think you're referencing. There is a condition in that PUD that it's publicly accessible for that particular road. Okay.

I also don't have any qualms with it at all beyond the fact that it will have to be unanimous vote for it to pass tonight.

Yes. All right. I'm going to ask this one question of the commissioners. If we were to make this change, simple addition, that the road, Verdean Shores Drive, shall be publicly accessible, is there anyone here that would otherwise vote against this tonight? I'm trying to see if you're still going to vote no. Okay.

I do want to see it publicly accessible. Don't get me wrong.

Don't want this coming back to another meeting. We're done with it. Commissioner Kelgo?

Thank you. I have no problem voting on it as a second reading. So as it was presented the first time, Harbor 31 is far from done. They'll be back. We'll have time to check if it is already on there, and we can pass it how it was presented two weeks ago. and have time to look, okay, do we have an easement and public access? We can look at all of those things, but staff is confident that it's probably already in there. And I'm pretty confident that this is a big development. There will be more things coming in front of the commission. The developers said that they believe it already is public access. So that means if it wasn't, they wouldn't have a problem. giving an easement to the city for public access. So we might as well just vote on the second reading like it was presented two weeks ago. I could agree with that.

All right. Is there anything else? Commissioner Jackson, do you have anything to ask Rad? No. No. Vice Mayor, do you have anything to ask Rad? Just one last thing. All right.

I think I've heard everyone up. Yes. Well, yeah. And to Commissioner Kilgore's point, and I hear exactly what he's saying. And I'm looking from experience and things that have happened in the past, how we ended up in a situation because we assumed that something was laid out as we thought it would be. And once it got back in front of the commission, then once we found out different, then we had to vote different. I would feel more comfortable if we maybe tabled this and bring it back with all the necessary components and agreements with public access to that drive. I just don't feel comfortable voting on this and not knowing on an assumption. And nothing against Harvard 31 and the developer or anything like that, but I like guarantees if possible. I like things to be credible. and not, you know, assuming or guessing. And when you sit on a commission as long as I have and you've seen some things and not to say that, again, they're not working in good faith, you kind of have pause and you take things from a pragmatic approach and a common sense approach. So that's where I'm at on this.

Thank you, Commissioner German. All right. Anything else, commissioners? All right. Seeing no subsequent motions, roll call, please.

Commissioner Kochan? No. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson?

Yes.

Commissioner Kilgore?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener?

No.

Commissioner German?

No.

Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. All right. Next item, F, Juneteenth Resolution 2026. Commissioner German.

Okay, let me log back in here. Oh, okay.

Okay, let me see.

Okay, I move to approve the resolution as presented and to fly the Juneteenth flag at City Hall in Hackley Park from Friday, June 19, 2026 through June 30, 2026. Support.

All right, we have a motion by Commissioner German supported by Vice Mayor Keener and Commissioner German.

Okay, let's see, give me a second here. Well, the reason I pulled this off, I drafted this a few years ago. And not only because this represents the independence of former slaves that was enslaved here on this continent of the United States. It's also to make awareness and to educate also. There's been some pushback because of the flying of this flag and other flags. And we have made policies. And as a caller called in today, I think it's important that every race or culture celebrate their legacy, their culture, race, I have nothing against that. But when you look at a race of people that have been enslaved and forced into servitude and worked over 400 years with free labor, And still to this day, you see policies and things to set the needle back when people have worked so hard together to try to move forward. We see this in our federal government with the administration that's currently in there. The policies to push back the 13th Amendment, the Voting Rights Act. So I think it's essential to look at how we can celebrate and recognize the independence of this Juneteenth holiday, which has also been approved by the federal government at that level. Is this something that I need to read?

You're welcome if you'd like, but you don't have to.

I've read it before. Let me see.

You can get any if you want. You can just go to the resolved section, which is all the whereas. But you're welcome to read the entirety if you'd like.

Okay, and I will read it. You know, city of Muskegon resolution honoring June National Independence Day, as well as the United States of America formally recognized Juneteenth celebrated on June 19th as a federal holiday with the signing of the Juneteenth National Independence Day Act, on June 17, 2021 commemorating the emancipation of enslaved African Americans. And whereas news of the end of slavery did not reach the frontier areas of the United States in particular, the state of Texas, and the other southwestern states until months after the conclusion of the Civil War, more than two and a half years after President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. And whereas on June 19, 1865, Union soldiers led by Major General Gordon Granger arrived in Galveston, Texas with the news that the Civil War war had ended and that more than 200,000 enslaved African Americans were finally free. And whereas African Americans who have been slaves in the Southwest celebrated June 19th, commonly known as Juneteenth, Independence Day, as inspiration and encouragement for future generations. And whereas African Americans from the Southwest have continued to the tradition of observing Juneteenth Independence Day for over 150 years. And whereas 45 states and the District of Columbia have designated Juneteenth Independence Day as a special day of observance and recognition of the emancipation of all slaves in the United States, and whereas Juneteenth Independence Day celebration have been held in the honor of African American freedom, while encouraging self-development and respect for all cultures. And whereas the faith and strength and character demonstrated by former slaves and the descendants of former slaves, along with their great many contributions to America, remains an example for all people of the United States and around the world, regardless of background, religion, or race. And whereas slavery was not officially abolished until the ratification of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Let me read that over. Whereas slavery was not officially abolished until the ratification of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States in December 1865. And whereas over the course of its history, the United States has grown into a symbol of democracy and freedom around the world. And whereas Juneteenth Independence Day provides an opportunity for Muskegon residents and all Americans to learn more about the past and better understand the experience that have shaped the United States. Now for there be it resolved that the City Commission of the City of Muskegon respectfully honor and acknowledge and reaffirm the 19th day of June as Juneteenth National Independence Day and its recognition, honoring, and acknowledging of the official federal holiday, Juneteenth National Independence Day, the City of Muskegon will fly the flag Juneteenth flag at the Muskegon City Hall and Hackley Park in Muskegon starting Friday, June 19, 2026 through Tuesday, June 30, 2026. And the foregoing resolution was offered by myself, Commissioner Willie German, and supported by Vice Mayor Destiny Keeney. And the same duly passed at the General Session of the City of Muskegon City Commission with the votes followed.

Thank you, Commissioner German.

Yeah.

Anything else you want to add before I go open it up to the rest of the commission?

Well, again, this is more of talking about our history and educating people about our history and the community and the contributions that have been made and the sacrifices. And the flag that you will see There's been some controversy about the flag. The flag that you would see flying at City Hall would be the flag of the red, white, and blue Juneteenth flag, which is the original Juneteenth flag. Some get it mistaken with the black, green, and red flag, which is the Pan-African movement under the great Marcus Garvey. So, Again, these things need to be addressed. They don't teach a lot of this in a school. They're taking history out of the schools. And as an educator, I feel it's necessary and essential that we all know everyone's history.

Thank you, Commissioner German. First, Mayor Keener, would you like to share anything on this?

No.

Thank you. Commissioners, anything else? Commissioner Kilgo. Thank you.

May is... Asian American and Pacific or Island month, and I'd like to recognize that here in the month of May, next month of June is Immigrant Heritage Month. In any other month of the year that a different demographic or nationality would like to have recognition from the City of Muskegon, it can always be a discussion. Anything can always be a discussion. The caller who called earlier, who all the commissioners have gotten an email from, I just want to state that the pin here that I'm wearing on my lapel tonight is a quote from the Spike Lee movie, Do the Right Thing. And here at the City of Muskegon, we're going to do the right thing. We're going to recognize Juneteenth, and we're going to recognize... any other month it can come in front of us and be a conversation. We've never put in a stop to, Nope, we're not going to talk about your nationality or we're not going to talk about your, uh, event or thing that you believe in or whatever. Anything can be a discussion. Now I'm not saying that something that comes in front of us, it's guaranteed to get passed. We're more than open to have a conversation. I just, I just wanted that to be said. We at the city of Muskegon have never put the brakes on someone who's come to us and tried to, um, have a certain something recognized, we're going to have a conversation about it. So I'm glad to see the resolution back in front of us again for Juneteenth next month. And item J coming up, we'll have some discussion about that one as well and move forward from there. But if anyone would like to have conversations, you can always email any of your commissioners or the mayor, or you can stop in and talk to city staff. Thank you.

And Commissioner Kogel? Did I see your hand, Commissioner Kogel?

Yeah. I was going to say something very similar, but the gist of it is constituents have reached out and have asked for us to represent things, and I do bring it to the city commission and ask to see, you know, this is something that we all support. And one of the things that I'm going to be bringing back again this year, because I did ask about it last year, was the Disability Pride Month in July. And we did have a flag displayed in City Hall and we did have a display explaining a little bit more about Disability Pride Month. And I will be bringing that back again this year as well because a constituent had brought it up to my attention and was like, hey, can we get this kind of recognition? And so I brought it to the city manager and was like, is this something that we can do? And so then we had a conversation about it. We're not going to turn down a conversation about how you want to, you know, represent something, whether it be a nationality or, you know, a specific month. We're here to have a conversation. So I definitely think that that's something that needs to happen. And I think we all know my stance on the current flag policy to begin with.

Thank you, Commissioner Cochin. Commissioner, is there anything else to ask or add? Yes, Commissioner St. Clair.

We are a diverse commission, and we reflect a very diverse community. I think that it is important to recognize that and to understand that not everyone is going to be comfortable with that, and that's okay, that our job is not to make decisions that make everyone comfortable or happy. That is an impossible act. That will never happen. And whatever we do is always going to be the wrong answer for somebody. But if we are doing what is the best for the most, then we are on the right side of history. So I totally support this.

Thank you, Commissioner St. Clair. I'll return to you, Commissioner German. I want to give Commissioner Jackson an opportunity. Would you have anything to ask her at?

No, just fully support what we already do.

All right, excellent. Commissioner German.

Yes, just one last thing. You know, I can't tell you how good it feels to have a governing body to be able to address issues and concerns from different walks of life and backgrounds because when I first got on the commission, that was a touchy subject. People didn't feel, I mean, I should say commissioners, some commissioners didn't feel comfortable talking about race and different ethnic groups and different concerns. But you look at the makeup of the community that we serve, and now we have a government body that represents that community and that's open to listening. And as the commissioners, my fellow commissioners stated, having these conversations and not shying away from them. And even myself, you know, I had to get educated on some things. I mean, because sometimes you don't understand what you don't know. So you have to have this dialogue and conversation. So I'm happy to see this, and I hope this sets precedent for the next body and administration that comes up when I'm gone. And to also keep this...

going so we can continue to grow and under I mean and educate the public as well so thank you thank you and thank you for your work on this resolution and bringing it forward for the City Commission consideration as to whether or not we want this to reflect our government speech as a legislative body and so I appreciate the work that you've done on this and always your advocacy and I will firmly support this resolution and our city celebrating Juneteenth and the history of Juneteenth and the freedoms. It's never a bad time or day or cause to celebrate freedom. It's important to celebrate freedom and make sure that we are working to safeguard those freedoms at the same time. So thank you again, Commissioner German.

You're welcome.

Roll call, please.

Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson?

Yes.

Commissioner Kilgore? Yes. Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. Next item, H, Liquor License Extension, Wonderland Distilling Company, 1989 Lakeshore Drive, Suite B, Commissioner German.

All right. Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve the Liquor License Amendment Request for Woodland Distilling Company located at 1989 Lakeshore Drive, Suite B, and authorize the city clerk to sign the required local government approved document pending staff's approval. Support.

We have a motion by Commissioner Germans, a vote by Commissioner Kilgore. Good evening. Can you introduce yourself and please report on this item?

Absolutely. Isabella Gonzalez, Development Analyst with the City of Muskegon. So we received a request from Wonderland Distilling Company, which they're located at 1989 Lakeshore Drive, Suite B, with their barrel room accompanying in 1991 Lakeshore Drive, Suite A. And so they're requesting local government approval for an amendment to their existing liquor license, which was originally approved in 2019. So they're asking... to include beer and wine service to their existing cocktail menu, which does include their distilled liquors, which are whiskey, gin, and vodka. So according to the applicant, this is not a new liquor license request, but rather an extension of their previously approved license. They have indicated that they are aware and intend to satisfy all MLCC requirements associated with the request, and then they indicated that the facility received approvals from the county health department and MDARD.

Thank you, Ms. Gonzalez. Commissioner Drummond, I know that you pulled it because we needed to make some clarification, so I don't necessarily expect it. You do have questions or comments, but I'm going to offer it to you first as the motion maker, if you have anything to add.

No, not really. And just welcome, Ms. Gonzalez. Good job, as always. And you pretty much stated and covered everything, and it's pretty self-explanatory, so I'm fine.

All right. Commissioner Kilgore, as a supporter, do you have anything to ask her at? I'll say it. Thank you. All right. Commissioners, anything else to ask her at?

No?

All right. Thank you, Agnes Gonzalez. Roll call, please.

Mayor Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Kilgore? Yes. Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Kochen? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Commission passes.

Thank you. Next item, contract for housing exemption and pilot continuation for Jackson Hill Estates. Commissioner German.

Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Let me get ready to say okay. I move to approve the contract for the housing exemption as presented and authorize the Mayor and Clerk to sign. Support?

Motion by Commissioner German, supported by Commissioner Kilgore. Good evening, sir. Kindly introduce yourself and please report out on this item.

Good evening, my name's Jake Eckholm. I'm the Director of Development Services for the City of Muskegon. So as was stated in the packet, the term, the affordability term for the payment in lieu of taxes agreement, the contract for housing exemption that was originally passed for the Jackson Hill Estates or Village of Jackson Hill expires in March of next year. And in the event that it expires, it enters into what's called like a qualified contract period where it can become market rate. Some of the rents in those units are as low as 200 some odd dollars. A lot of senior citizens on fixed incomes with specific, a lot of them with disability. So what's being requested by the current ownership is to extend the affordability period with a new contract for housing exemption for 10 years, which is allowable under statute. It would continue at the same 4% pilot and would preserve the affordability of the units in question.

Thank you, Director Atcomb. Commissioner German.

All right, thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Director Atcomb. Okay, we're talking about the Jackson Hill Apartments, which is in my ward, and I go down to that area a lot. Now, this extension here... This has to do with the LIHTC tax credit, right?

Sure. So they were originally a LIHTC project when they were under construction. Those obviously have long since expired. And they were acquired by General Capital, which is the same firm that has constructed the Berkshire here, the senior living apartments downtown, as well as lofts at 1021 Jefferson across the street here. which is family housing. They attempted to receive additional ITEC credits to do a rehab there, like a remodel of the existing units in two separate rounds and were unsuccessful in getting awarded. just because of the competitive nature of LIHTC. And so they have pursued external weatherization funding, which they've been, I believe, awarded for the site, and then with the intention of making some improvements so they continue to operate it as an affordable senior living complex.

Okay. Yeah, thank you for updating the commission on that, and I am aware of that. I have some concerns and some pause here. Now, we're not talking about new ownership. We're still talking about the same company. The complaints that I have received from tenants there over the last two years did not sit well with me. I reached out to management. I even reached out to city manager about some of the things that was not being addressed for these tenants. So I believe in accountability. Now this is in front of us again to extend this pilot. And how can we assure that these things and actual promises are met to serve these tenants and make sure that these tenants are satisfied and happy and improvements are being made? And that's probably something that I'm going to have to ask the developer as well.

Sure. I think the one thing I will speak to is that the city's provision of a payment in lieu of taxes or a contract for housing exemption, really what we're requiring is that MSHDA rent limits are followed at certain income points. And so these units are subject to our same rental inspection processes as every other rental unit in the city of Muskegon. Individual tenant complaints should be handled through Safebill, and if they're not seeing resolution to those complaints as to what they see as satisfactory, then obviously they have redressed through the court system. This agreement in front of you specifically pertains to the affordability of the units, and so I'm hesitant to conflate the two. Right.

I appreciate that, Director Eklund. And, yeah, we definitely want it affordable for our tenants to be able to live because some of them don't have the... higher income or not in that higher income bracket. That's why they're there. So, yeah. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner German. Commissioner Kilgore. Thank you. Director O'Connor, if General Capital was to not get this extension, and let's say they sold their development to X, Y, and Z company, X, Y, and Z company could then process out all the leases, remove tenants from there, redo the whole thing, and rent at market rate or wherever they wanted to rent at, correct?

That is possible. So we've seen expiration of other LIHTC agreements in the city and purposeful transitions to market rate, which we need market rate housing too, but this tenant base that exists there today would, and I've seen the rent rolls pursuant to this agenda item, many of them would certainly be displaced if it were to transition to market rate.

So without having to get into, like, numbers, how much per month, but do you know about what AMI, the program, is allowing those residents to fall into?

Quite a few of the current residents, based on the rent numbers I've seen, and I don't know necessarily household size, I just know unit counts and rent, I'm guessing are between 30% and 50% of the area median income. And I think they are all 55 and up and mostly seniors with other abled households. Gotcha.

So we definitely need this because we don't really have a line of 30% to 50% AMI housing going up or something.

No, as we know, we've been very successful in new construction LIHTC, and that has created just under 90 units in that price range at the 30% to 50%. 50% AMI price ranges, and that's with six developments. So it is very difficult to program deeply affordable housing.

Gotcha. And then my last question, I guess it's more of a comment, I guess. We do have the Fair Housing Center of West Michigan, and we do have other entities. So I myself have also heard about some of General Capital's buildings that they own here in the city of Muskegon and some other bigger entities that own some of these apartment complexes. Even if they're a bigger entity, they still have rules that they have to follow as a landlord. So I just want the public to know that there are resources out there. If they're having trouble or issues with their landlord, there are people that they can talk to because there's rules on both sides. There's rules for tenants that they have to follow, but there's also rules for landlords that they have to follow.

That's a good point. And to expand on that, both Safeville and Development Services staff make referrals to folks if they feel like their issue hasn't been addressed with the city's scope of ordinances and code, then we'll tell people what their options are.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Kilgore. And just in the same vein as your line of questioning with regard to AMI, for LIHTC properties and when we do a continuation, this would fall under the restrictions on rent, relative income, as you mentioned, is that going to be where they have to be an average of 60% or below? So that's going to be continuing?

They would continue with their existing unit scope. And so it's not quite the same as like a 9% new project where you're trying to hit a certain QAP average. It's going to be you have to keep the rents at or below what they are.

So whatever existing now, essentially, they're going to be continuing.

That average is pursuant to whatever the original...

Scope was for the original pilot, and I'm sorry to say I don't know what that was that was 20 years ago Yeah, well before your time here Okay Thank You Commissioner coaching yes, thank you um my question is I've basically been answered at this point But I do also want to reiterate you know the fact that the Oh, no, no, I do have a question, I'm sorry. When you are referring the residents to pursue other options after going through Safe Built and going through your department, are those options strictly limited to you can find a lawyer and then pay for a lawyer to then go to court? Because I think looking at these numbers, I don't think that most of these people could afford lawyers.

No. So in short, no. So we do make people aware of the fair housing of West Michigan. And then additionally, several agencies around muskegon county subsidize legal aid and so there are legal aid office hours at several locations throughout muskegon county um and then we have also referred people to the housing interventionist position at united way in the past which actually the city of muskegon development services division initially funded that position um so no we don't just tell them like get a lawyer it's usually like here are the next steps if you're not satisfied with what we've

given you. I do appreciate that because I have gotten phone calls from people and I've sent them on to Commissioner German and so I do know that there have been some pretty serious complaints and I would like to see more things being resolved. But I also don't want to see residents at that income level being kicked out of their homes. So I have a lot of compassion for that. And I would like to see that program being able to continue with the caveat that I really would like to see some better work done on the other end.

Well, certainly, and I'm not going to opine on those tenant-landlord issues. That is the good work of elected officials to listen to those constituents and see what the nature of those problems are. But I will say that the intention when General Capital made the acquisition was to do substantial capital improvements through that LIHTC process. And because of the competitive nature of the LIHTC rehab side as well as the LIHTC new construction side, As we've seen, it's just there's only so much money to go around through the state. And so I think they've done a good job of maintaining the affordability despite the fact that the property as it exists really does not cash flow after acquisition. So I think it's sort of if one thing is true, then perhaps all things are true.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Gershon. Vice Mayor Keener.

I would really love to see this continue on. My grandmother happens to live in Jackson Hill and has stayed there for over eight years. Personally, I know from just the small rent increases since she first began being a resident there, it is a strain on her budget. Because most of the people there have also, when I worked at Senior Resources, a lot of those people were my clients. So I had the opportunity to know what their income is. And they are in those facilities, not only because it's really safe for them, They're also able to continue to live independently, which I really love in that community. And additionally, it is as affordable as they can have. And I'm really excited about the weatherization program because they have the resources that have been very limited. And I've seen the decline in even my grandmother's home. and where there are necessary repairs that really needed to happen. So I'm really excited that they do have that grant. And I just wanted to let that be known.

Thank you, Vice Mayor Keener. All right. Anyone that has not commented wish to chime in or ask anything? No? Yes. We'll give the opportunity for the applicant and the developer to address the commission. And if you would please introduce yourself.

Yeah, my name is Josh Hafron. I'm with General Capital. We've been working with the city of Muskegon since probably 2013. We were the first development to go through the form-based code that was approved, which was the Berkshire Muskegon. We are advocates for affordable housing. We support affordable housing, and we try to create the most successful affordable housing projects anywhere in Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin where we work. We take complaints seriously. We handle them the best we can. And there are always two sides to every story. And as part of running this project, we have committed and spent an inordinate amount of time to get this weatherization grant that will support half a million dollars, at least, of material and equipment moving into the building to improve the lives of the residents. Affordable housing, as you well know, is a very difficult industry to work in, to develop, and to run. We have limited resources, we have limited rents, and as a result, I'm not gonna say we do the best we can, we try to make it as comparable to market rate apartments as possible, and we believe that we are, if not there, we're there. Even in market rate apartment buildings, you are gonna have tenant complaints. You're gonna have people complaining about when the snow gets plowed, You're going to have people complaining about my unit is too cold, my unit is too drafty. It's just the nature of the business. And General Capital, as a philosophy, as an organization, is committed to affordable housing, working with tenants, and solving issues as they come up. We have been in front of this board before and have told commissioners, if there are issues, we are open for dialogue. We would love to come down and sit with you and talk about specific, willing to talk about anything. We have not been taken up on that at all. We responded to a woman who came in front of the commission and was besmirching our company, the project, and that woman was not a resident of the project anymore because she'd been evicted and currently owes the project a significant amount of money. So as I stand before you today, General Capital is a tremendous organization. General Capital is committed to affordable housing. General Capital is committed to having residents live in the best conditions possible in affordable housing compared to the market rate. And that's what we strive for. So I just wanted to get that out there in the public and state that. We believe in the project. We think it's a fantastic project. The physical nature of the village of Jackson is something you do not see in a lot of affordable housing. street entry apartments with attached garages, with dining rooms, living rooms, and ample closet space. That type of product cannot be built any longer in affordable housing. So we are maintaining it, doing our best to maintain it. We think we're doing a fine job of it. And when people come up with complaints, we encourage them to come to us, to talk to our staff, to talk to the property manager, And if it gets to the level of commissioner, give us a call. So thank you for the time to talk.

Thank you, Mr. Ephraim. Appreciate you joining us this evening and sharing those insights. Much appreciated. And I think it's particularly impactful to know that this is a very unique property and that It would be a loss not to have this continuing to serve as affordable housing for our community. It is quite unique. Will you take questions from the commission? Yeah, okay. Thank you. Commissioner German.

Yes, yes, thank you. Good evening and thank you for addressing the My question is to Commissioner Annette Ward. I've sat down and walked, knocked door by door, sat in and talked with residents there at the Village of Jackson Hill Apartments. Some tenants have been there for years. Probably, if you could just let me know, when was it that your company took ownership of this property? Early 2021. Early 2021. Okay. So I'm looking back probably about almost 14, 15 years when I first ran for office. I mean, there's been some complaints, and as you said, there's two sides to a complaint. But my concern as a representative for my constituents, and especially when – They feel the living conditions are not satisfactory. I have to address those concerns. I reached out to management before. I'm not sure if we've talked. But you mentioned something about the snow. It's something as simple as snow removal, where a resident can't get their mail if the snow is not removed. I've had that complaint several times. There's been some complaints before. about work being done, and I'm glad to see that you have this. If you want to start with the snow, we can talk offline and we can talk online with the snow.

Do you have a question, Commissioner Chairman?

Yeah, I mean, what is it, are you staffed enough to meet the demands of the client's complaints or the resident's complaints? Because that's the biggest, seems to be the biggest issue there. There's no one that they say are in the office or maybe one person that may take a message, but there's no return calls or anything that's being addressed. So that's, I guess, I want to start there.

Yeah, so as far as staffing, the tenants are absolutely right. There is no one in the office five days a week. I think we have someone there two days a week for four hours each time. And just frankly, the feasibility of having a full-time staff member in an office with 40 apartments is impossible. We couldn't afford it. The rents could not be where they are with a full-time staff person in the office. We're fortunate, General Capital is, that we have two other projects in Muskegon, the Berkshire Muskegon and 1021, where we have full-time managers at both of those properties and full-time maintenance techs at those properties, as well as support maintenance techs from other buildings that KMGR property manager manages so that if there is a work order or a call to the office, there is sufficient staff to respond to those people. If they're not getting a response, then they obviously can elevate to you or to whoever they want to elevate to and demand a response. But in our view, there is sufficient staff and ability to respond. So if something's not happening, that's where we need to work on the process. But as far as the snow, this year we implemented a new policy where in the past we did have the maintenance techs shoveling the driveways for the residents. And the snow was just coming down too fast for the maintenance techs to keep up with the snow. And then we also have the fact that the city, which we're grateful for, runs its plows through the streets, so when they run the plows through the streets and if the driveways have been plowed, the street snow is gonna be pushed into the driveways by definition. But so in response to that, this year we hired third party snow removal for the walkways and the driveways instead of using maintenance tax, which we think produced a better outcome from what we've heard. um, was in previous years where we, our staff or KMG staff took on responsibility for the snow. Um, and we're doing the same thing with lawn care this year, moving it out to a third party to do lawn care instead of having, um, staff do the lawn care, which ultimately should free up time for the maintenance tax to do work orders.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you. And that's good to hear. Um, cause that would definitely make the residents, um, Happy. As for getting the information out to the residents when there's a concern or issue and the turnaround for a complaint, as you said, there's not staff in there five days a week at that location. Is there a number that they could call? where they could actually get, for emergencies, I should say, especially with maintenance, immediate response or someone that could respond in a timely manner?

You know, that's a detail that I'm not that familiar with, the number and how the process works, but Selena Gustafson from KMG is here, who's a regional director and oversees the property managers of these. Yeah, there's an emergency maintenance number that they can call, and the response time on that is typically...

immediate response. Okay. And if I can get that number, if you have a card, because I get calls from them all the time, maybe I can share that information as well.

Me as well.

You can get that to the city clerk, and then we can get that distributed amongst commissioners. I digress.

Thank you, Commissioner German.

Commissioner Kogut, do you have a question for Mr. Heffron?

I do. Mr. Heffron, I myself, I'm in real estate. I've property managed myself and recently expanded my company to have a new property management division. So we actually just hired a new property manager for our company. And the two things that I was looking for in our property manager were patience and compassion. And I just think that... someone in the role of the property management sometimes should have patience and compassion with not only a renter, but specifically in this development that we're talking about, senior renters, and just keeping that in mind when we are trying to provide a service for them. Yep, there's money. Yep, they have to pay their rent. Yep. this comes with it and this doesn't, right? So not necessarily going above and beyond for one resident specifically here or there, right? But just keeping in mind that this particular beautiful, I just drove through there the other day. I still think it looks great there in Jackson Hill. But just keeping in mind that the villages are seniors and they may need a little compassion and a little patience when dealing with them because they may not understand what the rules are. what time the snowplow comes through or their trash is picked up or what time the maintenance man will be there and just little things like that. So mine's more of a comment, just keeping in mind that this particular development is our seniors and we should have a little compassion and patience with them.

I appreciate the comment 100% and senior housing, I might come across as blunt and to the point but the managers, we have 15 senior housing projects and the managers are instructed to act with compassion, to lead a community of seniors that lives independently, that can live together and thrive. But your comment is well-known. We'll take it. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Kilgore. All right. Any other questions for Mr. Heffron? No? Okay. You mentioned two of the other projects here in Muskegon, and I remember just got elected to the commission when you started Berkshire. I'm very happy with the investments you made in Muskegon. Are you still working on moving forward with Nelson?

Oh, my God, yeah.

Okay.

Hallelujah. I was going to say, Mayor Johnson and Alderman Germain were, I think, the only two. I don't want to offend anybody. No, maybe.

No, we're the only two.

The only two that were here at the beginning of Berkshire and Muskegon.

Mm-hmm. But thank you. Appreciate you for continuing to choose Growing with Miss Keegan.

Thanks.

All right. If there's nothing else, roll call, please.

Commissioner Kilgore?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. All right. Next item, J. Recognizing June as Pride Month, Commissioner Cochin.

I move to approve the resolution as presented to fly the Pride flag at Hackley Park during Pride Month and support a Pride display at City Hall.

And just to clarify, because the resolution proclamation does say at Hackley Park and City Hall, but... Staff recommendation just leaves out City Hall, but the resolution specifies City Hall as well. My apologies. Just wanted to clarify that.

Yeah, actually that was one of the questions I was going to ask because it did say that there, but not here. So then to also apply the Pride flag at City Hall.

All right. All right, we got a motion by Commissioner Cochin, supported by Commissioner St. Clair. All right, Commissioner Cochin.

Yes, so I pulled this because... As we've discussed tonight, diversity is something that we want to celebrate in our community. And I think that showing that City Hall is a safe place for anybody and everybody is important. And during the month of June, it's generally recognized as Pride Month. And I'm proud that we will be flying the pride flag at Heckley park and having the pride display, um, here at city hall. Um, and then we will also be doing, um, not affiliated with this, but on the side, a garden, um, on June 2nd at 6 PM here at city hall. So if you want to come to join in the planting, um, you are more than welcome to come.

Thank you. And that is included in the proclamation, the garden display. So we do have that.

I wasn't sure if I was going to be here.

Giving explicit approval for that from the commission as a reflection of government speech. Commissioner St. Clair.

Thank you. I think that what I said about the Juneteenth resolution holds true for this one as well. We are a diverse commission that represents a diverse community. And I think it's important to be vocal and supportive of marginalized communities and to speak as a city that we understand the importance of recognizing that love is love.

Thank you, Commissioner St. Clair. Commissioners, anything else you wish to ask or share?

No?

All right. I was just going to read the result, but I'm going to read the whole thing. It's relatively brief, but I'm going to read the whole thing just to give it, you know, it's due. And I'll also give a little background, because... previous commissioner, Commissioner Michael Ramsey, had put forward a resolution recognizing June as Pride Month. That was in 2020. 2019 or 2020, we might have revisited in 2020. I remember succinctly a conversation on Zoom during the pandemic that would have been 2020. Anyhow, Commissioner Ramsey had brought forward the original proclamation, which had declared June to be Pride Month in perpetuity, and also called for flying the flag in perpetuity. We had subsequently adopted that flag policy. and then have taken action as a commission. And this is why this is being brought forward this year, despite a resolution having been adopted several years ago calling for the recognition of June as Pride Month and flying the flag in perpetuity is because this is an expression of our government speech. And so it's important that each commission decides each time whether it continues to be an expression of their government speech. And so I'll just read the resolution. Whereas the city of Muskegon is home to a diverse and vibrant lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, and asexual community and is committed to supporting their visibility, dignity, and inclusion. And whereas LGBTQIA folks contribute meaningfully to every aspect of civic life, including education, public health, business, government, sports, technology, literature, civil rights, and the arts. And whereas each June communities across the country commemorate Pride Month in honor of the 1969 Stonewall uprising, a pivotal moment in the struggle for LGBTQIA rights and justice. And whereas Pride Month is a time to honor the resilience, contributions, and advocacy of LGBTQIA people, to recognize the progress that has been made, and to reaffirm the city's steadfast commitment to equality and respect for all residents, employees, and visitors. And whereas despite advancements, LGBTQIA individuals continue to face discrimination and marginalization, underscoring the importance of solidarity, public recognition, and active support from communities like Muskegon. And whereas symbols such as the pride flag represent diversity, inclusion, and joy, with their public display promoting awareness and acceptance. And whereas the City of Muskegon is proud to host the Muskegon Pride Festival in downtown Muskegon, drawing thousands of people from throughout West Michigan and beyond. Now therefore, be it resolved that the City Commission of the City of Muskegon hereby proclaims June as Pride Month in the City of Muskegon, and be it further resolved that in celebration of Pride Month, the City of Muskegon will fly the Pride flag at Muskegon City Hall and at Hackley Park in Muskegon, starting Monday, June 1st, 2026, through Thursday, June 18th, 2026, and will also host a pride-themed garden display at City Hall as a visible expression of support, respect, and unity. And so for anyone that may be watching and was not here earlier for the Juneteenth flag when we adopted that, I'm just explaining that that's why this flag is going from June 1st to June 18th so that we can then swap out for the Juneteenth flag on the 19th and for the remainder of June. So, Unless there's anything else, I'm going to go to roll call. All right, roll call, please.

Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Kilgore? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. All right, we are done with the consent agenda. We have no unfinished business. Item A, right as agreement for discussion, is removed by staff. So our final piece of business, our new business, would be amendment to Chapter 82 of the Code of Ordinances for Affordable Housing. And I have a motion.

Motion to adopt the amendment to Chapter 82 of the General Code of Ordinances as presented. Support.

Motion by Commissioner St. Clair, supported by Commissioner Cochin. The podium is yours.

Good evening. Still Jake Eckholm, still with City of Mesquite. Yeah, this is a really exciting opportunity for us to sort of bring our local ordinance on affordable housing in alignment with state statute and best practices. So not every city has affordable housing as sort of a regulated ordinance in their code of ordinances. So I think we're very progressive for that in the first place. However, there have been several changes and updates to the MISHTA Act, as we know, because we've been utilizing them for workforce housing pilots and housing TIF, which is reviewed through MISHTA as well. And so Attorney Gorman and I for several months now, mostly Attorney Gorman to his credit, have been working on options to update our ordinance to make sure that it specifically references the appropriate sections of the MSHDA Act, the statute, to make sure that we're being crystal clear that, hey, we do allow these new tools like the workforce pilot to be utilized and that certain LIHTCs, that we're not only restricting ourselves to certain LIHTCs such as senior, we also want family housing and things of that nature. So given that, you know, we had worked on some amendments. There's a couple upcoming renewals of pilots that have been requested that caused us to further work on some amendment. And we had it all geared up and ready to go. And then Attorney Gorman and being detail-oriented as he is, did some research and found the City of Grand Rapids ordinance, which they had sort of already made all these updates, but had actually made their language even more accessible for affordable housing than what we had contemplated. So we advocated simply adopting what they have already incorporated into our own code of ordinances with the appropriate sections and references, so. That's what's in front of you. It just allows us to utilize all aspects of the affordable housing tools in the state of Michigan. And yeah, happy to entertain any questions.

Thank you, Director Eklund. Okay, I was going to say, I did not jot that down. Commissioner St. Clair. Thank you.

I don't have any questions. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the ongoing focus and enthusiasm towards... affordable housing and making sure that we are utilizing every tool and every opportunity that is something that not every community has. And I think that that has given us opportunities that we've really been able to take advantage of, and I know there's never enough affordable housing. And anytime I see an article on MLive that references a new apartment building going up or a new project, um, there's always a lot of commentary about what is affordable anyway. And, um, I know that there's endless work to be done, but we are doing the work in no small part to you and your department. So I think it's important when people do something to say thank you out loud. So thank you for your focus on this. And these are the tools that aren't exciting, right? But this is the work that helps us to be productive and effective. And in the words of Brene Brown, clear is kind. And the kinder we can make ordinance, the easier it is to navigate. So again, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner St. Clair. Commissioner Cochin?

Yes, I did have one question, Director Eckholm, but also would like to echo those sentiments as well. I think we need to use all of the tools in the toolbox and continue looking for more tools because, as we've discussed tonight, affordable housing is very hard to come by. Can you explain a little bit or expound a little bit on section 82-60, the severability and inconsistent ordinances?

I believe that is some boilerplate that I'll allow Attorney Gorman to legally use for you.

No, that is largely boilerplate, so it does two things. One, so that if there is anything that we missed that is inconsistent with this ordinance, that this ordinance would be what controls. Okay. The first part of it being that if there was any part of this ordinance that otherwise was found to be unconstitutional or unenforceable, that it doesn't invalidate the entirety of the ordinance, that it would only invalidate that portion of an ordinance. Gotcha. Okay.

Thank you. That helps.

I knew that. I just wanted everyone to see how smart the city attorney is. He can put it better than I can.

All right. Anything else, Commissioner Cochin? No. All right. Commissioner Koko.

Thank you. Director, so there are federal dollars up and down, you know, depending on the administration. There's state dollars matched to Actually state budgets have been over the last few years not always even flowing. They go up and down too. And then there's local ordinances like the zoning ordinances and different things that we've passed here in the city of Muskegon. Is there anything with this MSHDA Act or by us adopting this affordable housing program into code or as an actual ordinance, is there any downside that you think could come of that, just in your opinion?

Yeah, thank you. No is the short answer. So effectively what this does is it, as opposed to other communities who maybe as an example, they decide they are going to support like a LIHTC project like we've done many times at these meetings. what they'll typically have to do is like a single project ordinance. So they'll have to add an ordinance, a local law to their code of ordinances, specifically referencing that project and allowing it to pursue those tax credits pursuant to the MISHTA Act. We don't have to do that here because it's already ingrained into our code of ordinances. So this is really just bringing updates to our local code that have, happened to the state statute over the last several years since the last time we updated. And again, we are expanding the accessibility and the versatility of affordable housing tools in the local code. So I can't think off the top of my head of any disadvantage to us because again, nobody is certainly required to avail themselves of these tools, but it makes them available in all areas of the community. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Commissioner Keogh. Commissioners, anything else to ask Brad?

Vice Mayor? I'm just super excited about us being able to do this, because homelessness is one of my biggest passions. And we can't cure it, but we certainly could do more in our community to fix a major growing problem. And so I'm just, even what Michigan is doing, the state of Michigan itself in being so innovative and forward thinking when it comes to housing, that was just, it just blew my mind. Even so, a lot of the communities within this state, some of the innovative things that they are doing. So I'm really looking forward to us maybe even doing some of the things that they're doing in other communities with these LIHTCs and TIPS. Thank you.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. All right. Unless there's anything else? Thank you, Dr. Chair. Roll call, please.

Commissioner German?

Yes.

Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Kilgore? Yes. Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. Thank you. All right. Don't go too far, Director O'Connell, because I'm going to have you update on something. However, before we get into the update, which is the Nelson House, before we do that, I do want to acknowledge, because we voted on consent, but the good folks at Johnson Controls remain with us and have been patient and here for the duration of our meeting, which we appreciate. But moreover, I really appreciate all of you and your organization for your partnership. We move forward tonight in adopting the energy performance contract under consent agenda this evening. You've been here before to present to the commission. You've been working with our staff for many months on developing this. And so I just want to express my appreciation for the work you all are doing and I look forward to its implementation now. This is going to be making our organization more fiscally sustainable as well as environmentally sustainable. And at the same time, some of the facility modifications are going to be able to better serve our organization itself, the employees, as well as our community. And so I just wish to acknowledge you all here and say thank you. All right. Greg Jackal, if you would kindly update us with regard to the status of the Nelson House. And I believe there's an open house coming up too, a public open house. Could you speak to where we're at with the Nelson House?

Sure. Thank you. So as you know, we have had several iterations of attempting to market the Nelson House over the last year. And what we have decided to do is go ahead and list it on the MLS with effectively a time period where people can view it. and what we call like an offer deadline of June 8th. So we'll take offers after June 8th. According to our realtor, we've had over 30 showings just on his side, probably more than that with other potential agents, I think. The open house is tomorrow from, I believe, 5 to 6.30 and will be open to the public. So he feels that we're going to get some strong interest from potential buyers and investors. And what we're going to do is we'll then bring those to you, and we'll make some recommendations and kind of give some bullet points. Because I think what we were running into is we were being maybe perhaps overly prescriptive to the market when we were like, we only want it. with an owner-occupier who can show this much financing and this much capital. And we really couldn't find anybody that checked all those boxes. And so now we're going to see kind of what's out there on the open market and leave it to the commission with our guidance and recommendation to decide what you want to do. So, yeah, I anticipate we're going to get several potential offers after June 8th.

Excellent. Thank you, Jack.

Appreciate those updates. Thank you.

Commissioners, before we go to general public comment, is there anything else that you wish to bring up underneath the business? Commissioner Kilgore.

Thank you. Um, there is a financial empowerment series, a three week series, June 15th, June 22nd, June 29th at access health. Uh, I believe it's from five to six 30. Um, I can get times to the city so that we can update people on that. And then I was wondering if the manager could give us, if there's any updates on the fire that was at the village at the Oaks.

I don't know. I don't believe we've got anything additional from what we had over the weekend. But the, it was a smoldering fire that impacted a small number of the total units. The biggest impact was that the electrical panels in the elevators were impacted. And so the folks who live on the second and third floors who are in wheelchairs and things of that nature wouldn't be able to get out easily. So they were assisted in moving out of the unit over the weekend. And Trinity Health, who owns the apartment complex, is getting folks into other units that they own. So fortunately, there are places for everybody to go who are impacted there. So the investigation is ongoing to determine exactly what caused the fire, and then the repairs will begin. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Kilgore. And thank you to our firefighters, as well as our neighboring firefighters. Our fire department responded quickly and joined with assistance from our neighbors. Much appreciation to all of them for getting that contained and extinguished as quickly as they did.

All right, anything else, commissioners, to bring up?

No? All right. Then we're going to go to general public comment. Anyone in the audience wish to give general public comment at this time? You don't have any? Oh. You don't have any forms over there. All right. Seeing no takers in the audience, we're going to go to the phones. That number is 231-724-6721. This is an opportunity to give public comment directly to the City Commission. You have three minutes to provide your remarks. Please turn down any audio in the background when you're calling in. State your name and which area of the city you're calling from if you're a city resident. And if you're not a city resident, which other township, village, or city you're calling from. Good evening, you're with the Muskegon City Commission. Hello?

Hello? Hello?

Ann from Roosevelt Park?

Hi, yes. Miss Vandermolen joining us from Roosevelt Park. You have three minutes to provide your remarks.

Okay, the Miami Vice episode, The Cell Within, does a brilliant job philosophizing who the real criminals in society are. The Miami Vice episode, Lend Me an Ear, says that there are a million ways to spy on someone using technology. I imagine there are a million more ways today. The reason I speak out against child porn is because I believe I was an indirect victim of it because two older children did things to me when I was nine years old. I believe they were probably victims of child porn and I feel sorry for them, but I believe they are trying to get into my house when I'm not home so that they can either plant something or lock me out of the house to get me back for calling CPS on the people I called CPS on. It's illegal for anyone to enter someone's house in order to set them up for a crime or to change the law. At nine years old, I was sexually molested by these people and they and their accomplices need to leave me alone. My dad was born and raised right here in downtown Muskegon. My dad had a talk show on the Muskegon channel about 20 years ago that many people like the former Muskegon Mayor Steve Warmington remember. Both my parents were born and raised right here in Muskegon, but they moved to the east side of the state for a while so my dad could teach at a community college over there. For a hobby, my dad took law classes at night. I guess he took enough classes to be a lawyer, but he chose to remain a professor. Not one night did he sit at the dinner table and say that in his law classes he learned that it's okay to frame someone for a crime. Because it's not okay. It's not legal for anyone to frame someone for a crime. If a cop participates in that, it's illegal. If a lawyer participates in that, they can get disbarred, and, of course, it's also illegal. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Vander Mullen. The number is 231-724-6721. This is public comment, general public comment time, if anyone wishes to phone in. Alright, does not look like we have any additional takers for phone-in comments this evening. Commissioners, we are not yet to adjourn. I think Commissioner St. Clair has something for us.

I move to go into closed session to consider material exempt from discussion or disclosure under state or federal statute being an attorney-client communication.

Support. We have a motion by Commissioner St. Clair, supported by Commissioner Kilgore. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Cochin? Yes. Commissioner St. Clair? Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Commissioner Kilgore? Yes. Vice Mayor Keener? Yes. Commissioner German? Yes. Commissioner Jackson? Yes. Commission passes.

Thank you.