City Of Muskegon Commissioners - Regular Meeting

[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] Good evening, good folks, and welcome to the city of Mskegan City Commission meeting for this Tuesday, January 13th, 2026. Before we get on with our meeting, we do have a few different public comment periods. Uh, one of which is towards the beginning of meeting for public hearings. We do have a couple public hearings. U, then we'll have comments on consent agenda. So, or any agenda items. Um so if there's anything on the agenda that you wish to speak on, you'll have the opportunity to give remarks then and then we'll have general public comment at the end of the meeting and you can share um whatever you wish with the city commission. Everyone has up to three minutes um for each public comment period and we do have phone in comments as well. If you are in the audience and you wish to give in-person comment, I encourage you to complete the public comment form at the back of the room. Um please provide your name and home address. Uh note I will not be asking you to announce your home address publicly, nor will I be stating your home address. Um that's for our private records. I will be acknowledging you if you are city resident or non- city resident. Um if you complete that form, please hand that to um our clerk's office right there at the end of the DAS, our deputy clerk. Um and

when it comes time for phone and comments, we will have a phone number scrolling at the bottom of the screen um and indicating that we're taking phone and comments. We do inperson comments first, then phone comments. Now, we do have a couple honors um honors and presentations this evening, then we'll have public hearings, then get on with our consent agenda um and our regular uh any new business. Now, before we get started with all that, we are going to um be led in prayer by Pastor Russell Dam from Oakrest Church of God. Um come up, sir. And that will be followed by the pledge of allegiance. If you wish to join us in either of those activities, I ask that you stand if you're still capable of doing so. [clears throat]

First of all, it's a pleasure to be here again. I always enjoy coming today. I'm glad you were running a couple seconds late because I was running late and I caught every red light on the way in, [laughter] but I'm here. So, Father, we thank you. We praise you. We want to give you glory and honor because without you we're unable to do anything at least anything worthwhile. So father I just lift this meeting up to you. I pray for each individual here and those who are going to be commenting that um our hearts will be right that we will be looking towards you and that we will hear from you so that the things that we do and decide will be honoring you. We give you all the glory and the praise in Jesus name.

Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, pastor.

May we have roll call, please? Commissioner Cochen. [clears throat] Commissioner St. Clair here. Mayor Johnson here. Commissioner Kilgo here. Vice Mayor Keenir here. Commissioner German here. Commissioner Jackson here. Thank you. Uh first up on our honors awards and presentations we have uh rec recognition of equalization um being let out by our city manager.

Good evening everyone. I just wanted to take a moment to recognize our assessing staff where we contract with the county of Mskegegan for our assessing services and um through uh equalization uh director they uh provide all those services that a department here normally would and we've been contracting with you guys for a long time. before.

Oh, so be so um we had this um recognition that was uh delivered to us in December uh from the state as a certificate of achievement. And I'm going to read what this um acknowledgement says. So this is to acknowledge that the city of Moskegan Mskegegan County on the 16th of December 2025 has been recognized for the outstanding achievement of receiving a perfect score on the 2025 PA 660 assessment audit review. We wish to congratulate and thank you for your continued efforts to provide fair and equitable assessing in the state of Michigan. And for those who don't know what assessing is, that's uh where your property is reviewed and and we set what your taxable value is. That's how we get your uh tax bills out and all that um kind of fun stuff that I'm sure people don't love getting those bills, but we want to make sure they're correct. Um so Donna and her staff do a great job. So, I was going to invite Donna up and um she's going to talk a little bit about what they do for us because this isn't something that you guys hear about all that often. It's not a department here at the that sat here at the city, but uh our team members work with Anna and her staff regularly. So, congratulations and thank you for everything you do. And there's your

Thank you very much. It's an honor and privilege to be here and thank you all for your support. city staff and I want my staff to stand up because this isn't about me. It's about the whole department. Would y'all like to join her at the podium? Yeah. [laughter]

Wes all who's [clears throat] the senior and we have Joel. We also have Kim. We have Kelly. We have a couple of other ones who do some work too who aren't here, but they all without them and with working closely with your staff, Sarah and um Jake and others, it's just great. They do a great job and this wouldn't be possible without my staff. So, and having the resources, I know Mark and the county give us the resources to do it. The audit, they audit us every five years, the state does. And assessing is discover, list, and value the property. And we have to do that every year. You get your assessment notice. We have to deal with all the tax breaks and incentives. There's a lot here, but we they do a great job. And again, we do that. We send out the notices. We have to do it uniformly and equitably. There's three values on every property. Assess, capped, and taxable. So, we're charged with that. And we also value personal property which is statement and we have to go out in canvas. It's a lot of work every year but it wouldn't be possible without this wonderful staff. And I just want to thank you all for supplying or contracting with us and your help because it wouldn't be possible without us working together. It's a good collaboration and has been for a long long time. So thank you and again thanks to my staff. So, thank you all. [applause]

We appreciate the work that you're doing and I hear that the um audit process got even more stringent and to get the highest score um was much more difficult this time around and you uh did perfectly. So, uh, that's accreditation to the great work of your office and we really appreciate the work that you do, uh, for our city and it's been a many, many years and it's been a productive, um, partnership. So, thank you.

All right. Next up, we have, speaking of audits, we have our own audit. [laughter] We have audit presentation. Um, all right. Annual comprehensive financial report. Um Kenneth Grant, finance director. Um so the every year we go through a audit process and um this is called the annual comprehensive financial report. Um it takes about six months, a lot of staff and a lot of teamwork. Um I like to thank everyone. Um I like the department heads, the division heads, my staff, the auditors. We put a lot of work into this and it takes a a lot of teamwork to get this together. And so I just want to let every thank everyone for their support and their um help to get complete this audit. So I'm without further delay I'm going to present uh Eric from um Brookley Dong to um do a presentation about our audit. Thank you.

Thank you Grant.

Hello Eric uh as he said from Brookley Dong. You guys got the big book and I think I think it's up on the screen too I believe. But um I'm just going to run through some of the key highlights. Um, I'm here for your benefit. So, we'll take some uh brief pauses if anybody has any questions and hopefully everyone leaves here knowing a little bit more about uh the audit. So, anyway, got the big book here. We're going to go to page one first, which is the same place I usually start. Oops, I take that back. I might have the wrong number here. Uh, okay. Well, we'll start page five is a transmitt letter and that is uh kind of an overview of the city from the city's perspective. Um certainly nice little uh letter talking about some of the highlights from the city in the past year. Uh following that, if you get to page 17, and that's kind of where I wanted to go, that is the independent auditor's report. And page 17, um it's three-page letter, and this is what makes what otherwise would just be a set of financial statements an audit. We express our opinion. Um you see the top front the top two paragraphs there are the opinion paragraphs. That second paragraph is what I usually refer to. In our opinion the financial statements referred to above present fairly in all material respects. The various financial statements for the year then ended in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted the United States of America. It's a big long sentence but it means what it says. Believe your financial statements are fairly presented. We do use the phrase in all material respects. You know we don't audit every last little penny. We're looking more at the big picture. uh we can't we can't look at everything nor would you want us to even try but uh from the big picture standpoint uh based on our testing and procedures the financial statements look good. So uh following that again I'm not going to go through it but page 21 is the management discussion and analysis the transmitt letter is that we I mentioned before the opinion letter is kind of the city the MDNA looks more at the city's financial statements from the the city standpoint. So, this is kind of the cliffnotes version of the financial statements as written by Ken. Um, if you don't want to

slog through the whole thing, although I hope you do, um, this would be a nice place to go to kind of get the short version of that. Um, all right, let's look at some numbers. That's always the most exciting thing. Uh, why don't we go to 39 and we'll look at the general fund. So, 39 is the statement of revenues, expenditures, and changes in fund balance for your major governmental funds. So, the general fund of course is the biggest of those and that appears on the left on page 39. There we go. Uh, first subtotal total revenues of $44,216,315. That's an increase of about $3.4 million from last year. So, let's talk about where some of those changes are. The top line there, taxes of 24.3 million is up about 1.5 million. Um, income taxes are about $781,000. uh that increase property taxes are about $668,000 and the marijuana excise tax distributions are included in there as well and that's about 47,000. So basically the good news is all of them are up. Um so um moving on down from that licenses and permits in total there are about 2.9 almost $3 million and they're up about $432,000 with the continuing number of new developments. Um the city's had quite a bit of activity in licenses and permits for a number of years now. Um that's just reflective of all the stuff that we see getting built around here, which is good to see. Under intergovernmental activity, um federal revenues there, 788,000, that's up about 489,000. You had a couple of one-time grants there, vehicle barrier grant, the splash pad grant, those are included in there. Um the state line there, 6.6 million is mostly revenue sharing and PPT replacement funds. a couple other small grants in there. That's up about 86,000. So pretty much pretty close to last year. And then local s local intergovernmental there of $180,000 is up about 130,000 with additional support

from the DDA for debt service. Uh charges for services of $5,823,000 is up about 647,000 with higher indirect cost reimbursements from other funds and parking revenues continue to grow. Uh fines and forefeiters are up a little bit. uh due to uh um parking fines and uh other activities pretty close to last year, but as you can tell from me running through this list, you're up on just about every line for revenues. So, um a good year there. On the expenditure side, uh the next subtotal, total expenditures of $42,929,812. That's an increase of about $2.6 million. Um we'll just talk about the areas that increased. Um financial services on the third line there is 7.3 million. That's up about 1.3 million and that's primarily due to additional pension costs. Um the city's defined benefit plan has been closed for a number of years but as time has marched on and more and more people have retired and there are fewer activity fewer active employees on it. The total costs have been centralized in that one spot and the act juries um crunched the numbers and said a little bit more needed to get put aside this year. uh public safety of 19.3 million. That's up about um 870,000. That's really just inflationary increases on almost $20 million in expenses there. Um also um I I would note um capital outlay is up a little bit this year again with some of those um federal grants, the splash pad and the vehicle barrier. You guys incurred some capital costs related to that. So [snorts] overall um you have an excess of revenues over expenditures of $1,286,53. Um last year it was 471,000. So you've got a bigger increase this year. And then you've got some other financing activity where you transfer money to and

from other funds. Uh mostly transfers out the general fund. Um subsidizing operations or providing grant matches or things of that nature with money going to the arena and the marina and the boat launch ramp fund. those sort of things. Um, that leaves you with an overall net increase of $158,246, an ending fund balance of $9,747,474. Um, I would note for external financial reporting purposes, your budget stabilization fund gets rolled into this. So, if you're looking at your internal numbers, they're going to be $1.8 million lower because that $1.8 million has been added in here. [snorts] Um, any questions on the general fund? Commissioners, Commissioner Ko,

thank you. Um, just for clarity, the line for transfers out um for um the ones in that's transfers to other funds in the city. So, the general fund has um provided primarily that's going to the arena and the marina and launch ramp fund with a little bit of money going to streets and a couple other odds and ends, but it was mostly the uh the marina and the arena um just assisting with operations.

Okay. Um I guess the parentheses on the out versus no parentheses on the in was what? [snorts] Correct. um because transfers in are an increase and transfers out are a decrease. That's why we put the parenthesis there just to try to make it clear to the reader that that's a decrease in fund balance there. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Anything else? [snorts]

Okay. Um I would note that you have a policy that requires general fund uh unassigned fund balance to be equal to 13% of the prior year revenues. Um this year your percentage works out to 17.36%. So you're well in excess of your uh funding requirements. And again um you got a lot done this year and we're still able to put a few bucks away for for another time. So really good news on the general fund there. Um let's take a quick brief look at your utility funds. Those are some of your other big funds. Those actually are back a few pages on 43. We'll look at the sewer and water fund. All right. The sewer fund is in the left column on page 43. Um we'll just kind of go down near the bottom. Change in net position. You've got an increase in the sewer fund of 584 548,740 leaving ending net position of 29,452,778. Um, just as a brief kind of timeout here as a reminder, your enterprise or business type activity funds like sewer and water and the marina fund follow a different kind of accounting than most of your other funds. They're full acrual accounting more like a business because they're operated like a business. They're supposed to be self-supporting. And um unlike say the general fund where you only have current assets and liabilities, current resources in them, these funds have everything in them. So you've got all of your fixed assets, your pipe in the ground, infrastructure related debt, anything like that. So that's why we use the term net position instead of fund balance. But that also means it's something different. That 29.4 million is not all available cash. That's everything. And you know, obviously your pipe in the ground and all that has value and it's providing value, but you can't really spend it again. Um if you look across or I guess up I should say at the previous page at the bottom of 42 that net position number is broken into a few categories. Um net investment in capital assets which is basically all the pipe and the ground net related debt. There's some

small minor restrictions for um debt covenants and then the unrestricted number there is really gives you a better idea of what's available in there. And the sewer fund is at $6,587,97 and that is a little bit up from last year when it was 6 almost 6.3 million. So up a few hundred,000 and that really gives you a better idea of kind of the resources that if they're not available today would be available in the near future to use in that fund. So uh that's the sewer fund. Um, we'll go back and look at the water fund on 43. Um, near the bottom, the water fund has a change in net position of 3,550,299. That sounds like a big number, and it is, but I would caution you. Um, a lot of that is one-time grants coming in for your capital items. Um, you can see it right above the change in net position capital grants and contributions money coming from the state. and you're going to get all the revenue today to build the infrastructure and put it in the ground, but then the expense happens over the life of the um assets. So, it'll get depreciated out over 50 years or whatever it is. So, it's kind of a one-time bump in um in a net position, but it doesn't really impact your bottom line as far as cash goes because you got $3 million, but then you put it in the ground. Um well, that sounds kind of funny to say out loud, but

[laughter]

uh we're we're burying money under the streets of Moskegan. So anyway, so probably looking at the income before the capital contributions is a better better measure of what went on this year and that's up about $494,000. Anyway, your ending net position at the end of the year is $40,88,85 just like the sewer fund. We'll look at the bottom of the previous page. 42 to see the split. the city's been um um um as I'm not telling anything you don't already know, but you've been on a multi-year plan working with some of the state um grants and loans and things of that nature to replace a lot of your um aging infrastructure for the water and sewer um in Moskegan. So, you've seen quite a bit of growth in that net investment in capital assets number as you've replaced old fully depreciated items with new items. So, that $40.8 million, most of it is the net investment in capital assets. The unrestricted number is just 562,000 in the water fund. Um, which isn't a big number, but I would note you've been in deficit in the water fund for two or three years now. So, um, you've made some changes, adjusted some rates, and you have gotten the water fund out of deficit now. Um, of course, like to see that number continue to grow. 562,000 isn't a very big uh number for reserves because everything in the sewer and water fund is really expensive when things break or pipes have to get replaced or things of that nature. So, a big step getting out of deficit, but continue to uh grow that and hopefully you guys can uh get that more comparable to the sewer fund down the road in a few years. But, nonetheless, good news for this year. You don't have to worry about um getting the letters from the state on the deficit elimination anymore. Um since we're here anyway, if you flip back to 43, we can talk briefly about the marine launch ramp fund since we're here anyway. Um the marina launch ramp fund has has um has needed a little bit of assistance from the general fund. You can see a $300,000 transfer in there. Overall increase at just shy of 100,000 ending net position at1,449,488.

Again, the bottom of 42 would show you about half of that or 771,000 of that is unrestricted. So, any questions on any of the utility funds, commissioners?

All right, let's talk about some really exciting stuff now. Um we'll talk about your uh MS and um retire healthcare um actuarial stuff because these are some big numbers with uh big things happening as always. If you want to go this will be back a little ways behind the footnotes. Go back to page 97. Um the city has a member of the mer system providing defined benefit pension to uh certain employees. Um the plan was closed to new employees. Oh, I think it was about 18, 19, 20 years ago or thereabouts. So, newer employees are in a defined contribution plan, which is more like a 401k, but the uh longer tenure employees plus retirees are still in this defined benefit plan. So, the city continues to uh to fund that. And the idea with the defined benefit plan is those employees are earning those benefits while they're working, not when they're getting paid. So, you set up a trust, you're funding this plan as people work, and then when they retire, the money is there to pay them. That's a little complicated to figure those amounts out because you've got to got to crunch numbers. That's why we bring in the acturies to figure out how long the average person's going to work, when they're going to retire, what their ending pay is going to be, therefore what are their benefits going to be after they retire, how long are they going to live, what's the estimated rate of return on the investments that you've been set aside. They do all that number crunching and then they back up and figure what you need to be putting aside today for those employees to fund them in the future. And if you're not fully funded because um their expectations haven't been met, then they've got to start factoring and kind of filling in those shortfalls. MS is on a 1231 fiscal year. So we have to report their information, that information on their fiscal year because that's how it's provided. So what we're looking at here is actually 6 months older than the rest of the financial statements. So we're looking at 123124 in the left column there. Um the top section there is what the total pension liability is regardless of funding. That's the total liability. pretty much stayed the same

as last year. It's up about $18,000 to $133,770,000. Um, and then the amount below that is the fiduciary net position or the amount set aside in the uh in the trust at MS. That's up 381,000 to 87,287,000. Um, that leaves you with a net liability of about 46 million. Um, you're about 65 and a quarter% funded, up about half a percent or so from last year. um that's gone up the last couple years. Um this plan I know we keep looking for the the kind of the hump once you get over the hump as [clears throat] more and more people are retired there's fewer people in the plan you know unfortunately over time people pass away that the uh the total liability on this should start coming down over time and you can kind of see if you look at the top that uh it's really been stuck in the low 130 millions for about the last four years or so now. So, I think we'll see. I mean, obviously it's up to the acturies, but I think we'll see that total pension liability number starting to come down or at least not going up much anymore again as as um people age out of the plan. Um the asset on the asset side, you guys are required by state law to fund your required contributions. MS, like I said, they cook up that number that you're required to fund and then you uh remit it to them every month. So, you're doing that as required. But the thing that makes the biggest impact, which is the thing you don't have any control over, is the return on investments. MS invests the money. Just like the rest of us, some years they have a great year and some years they don't. Um, you can see the net investment income under that plan fiduciary net position was $6.3 million this year and it was over $9 million in the previous year. So, you've had a couple of good years um that have helped um get the funding up. Unfortunately, every year is not a good year and every so often you will have a down year. You can see in 2022 was a down year. Obviously, we don't know what 2026 is going to bring. Hopefully, it's another good year, but every year is not a good year. At some point, there will be a down year. Um, as I'd mentioned, due to the fact that your funding is kind of in the hanging around the mid60s, that was

another reason why MUS bumped up your required contributions this year. And depending on future funding and if it continues to, you know, stay where it's at um or not climb as much, I think you're going to see um continued increases in that funding. But you will get over the hump here. Like I said, most of the majority of your employees are not even in the defined benefit plan anymore. Uh, so that liability should start going down over time. That's a lot I just threw at you. Any question on the MS plan here, commissioners? No questions.

All right. And for more excitement, if you flip back a couple pages to 99, you have the same thing for retirey health care. Um, just like uh with the MS plan, you provide retirey health care. That benefit has been um closed as well to new employees for several years now as well. But you do continue to provide it to eligible employees and retirees. Um these numbers are smaller than the Merse plan. It's just a smaller obligation. Um we were looking at 130 some million for Merse. These numbers are a lot smaller like 24 million. Um but h you've got a total liability of 24 million total assets of 28 million. So this plan is actually you actually have a posit an asset. So a negative liability if you want to look at it that way. So this plan is actually fully funded. you're at 117% funding. Um, that basically means you don't need to be sticking as much money in it and you have cut back the amount that you're putting into this plan. So, that's good news. You've got the retire healthcare under control and uh it's been fully funded for a couple years. Um, couple things bookkeeping things to mention here. Unlike MS, this is your plan. So, this is on your year. So, this is 63025, not 123124. And also just like MS, you're kind of held captive to the market and how well the investment return goes. And again, you've had a couple of good years, but down years do happen. And they may happen in 2026 or 27 or 28 and inevitably you'll have a down year, but as of right now, this uh this is in good shape and in better shape than the pension fund. Any questions on this one?

Commissioner Coin. I do actually. Um because I know you guys have been doing our audit for a while now. Can you explain why the healthcare fund would be doing better than the uh pension fund?

That's a good question. Um it really depends on a couple of things. Uh first of all, it depends on funding. Um MS says you need to set aside so much money. You guys set aside that amount of money. The city has in some cases in the past few years chosen to put a little bit of extra money into MS. You're certainly welcome to do that. Retirey health care is a little different because the actuaries still come up with a number, but state law doesn't require you to fund the trust. The city has chosen to do that and in some cases the city has chosen to put extra money into the trust. And that extra money helped this fund grow in some of those earlier years. Um the city of Moskegan was a very very early implement in funding its um employee healthcare, retire healthcare. Uh most entities only started thinking about it with some of the accounting changes in the last 10 to 12 years. The city's actually been funding its retirey healthc care I think since the late 1980s long before I was around. Um so you kind of were on a head start here compared to if you were to compare yourselves to other communities. You're going to see a lot lower funding percentages for retirey healthcare because they've only been doing the actuarial studies and funding it for the last 10 years or so whereas the city's been funding it for you know over 30. So that's helped. And then some of it is just um benefits provided and expectations. Um in some cases uh benefits of course are just lower to begin with from healthcare compared to pension and uh people work longer don't retire when expected you know if they than the benefit you know they're getting fewer benefits if they're retiring later than they need to that sort of thing. So it's a combination of just when you when you started funding it and how things are coming out compared to what the act juries are thinking.

Thank you. Any other questions, commissioners? No.

All right. Um, Vback, I will briefly cover this as well. You also have what we call a single audit. Um, it's a federal compliance audit. It's, if you kind of go back to 155. Um, what this is in regards to is the city, if you expend in excess of $750,000 in federal funds, you're required to have a compliance audit. It's called a single audit. Um, so we we uh on in addition to doing the regular audit, we do this compliance audit. And I should mention too, it was 750,000, but after effective after the June 30 year ends, it bumps up to a million dollars, but that really won't impact the city. You guys generally have quite a bit over that amount. Uh, but we do the compliance uh the compliance work, which um and not not not only involves tying out the numbers, but testing compliance on these grants. There's a lot of different compliance areas from allowable costs to filing reports and eligibility and um I think there's like a dozen or so different areas and different grants and loans have different areas to test. Um this year there were what we considered that we have to determine um what your major and non- major programs are um depending on size and how often they've been audited and certain other risk factors. and you had three major programs this year. Um the kind of the spending on the uh the Corona virus uh money, the the ARPA money that you got continues to be a high amount and was tested and then the uh two programs for the water and sewer um loans and related grants as well. So there were three major programs this year that were tested and I would note that there were no findings related to the single audit as far as compliance goes and we also did not come across anything on the financial audit that we felt warranted reporting as any kind of a recommendation or finding. I would definitely emphasize the fact that we're auditing the the financial statements themselves. We're not actually auditing the controls, but we do obtain an understanding of them in the course of

planning and performing an audit. And in doing so, if we come across items that we think are significant, we bring them to your attention in the form of a recommendation letter and we didn't find anything this year that we felt warranted a recommendation letter. So, just letting you know there's no uh findings or um deficiencies or anything like that reported in the in the single audit for the audit or for the compliance work. So, um I think the only other thing I wanted to touch on, you guys also have a letter um that was included as well. Um we are required when we do an audit to provide certain things in writing to governance which is the the city commission here. Very spec specific things go in this letter. Um you know we talk about qualitative aspects of accounting practices. You know there was one significant new accounting standard this year that uh Gazby government accounting standards board statement 101 which is in regards to how compensated absences are recorded that was adopted by the city this year. It goes through significant estimates. the fact that we looked at them and believe they're reasonable. Um it gets into any um like uh if there were any significant footnotes to bring them to your attention. I went through those two tables on MS and OPED, but footnote M&N are the big footnotes if you want to get into all the detail and the actuial stuff and all that. There's five or six pages on each of those. So footnote M andN are particularly important just because of their size. Um any difficulties encountered in performing the audit, there were not any. um corrected and uncorrected misstatements just talks about some of the adjustments that we made and um there was not anything significant enough to to note as far as u material audit adjustments anything like that although we did assist the city in some areas that we were requested to assist with no disagreements with management on accounting or auditing principles management provided in as was required by an audit a sign representation letter at the end asserting that they fully disclosed everything and a few other odds and ends in here for the most part this is a pretty generic boilerplate letter. There's really not too much out of the ordinary in here, but every year I just want to make sure you know what it is and why you have it and that I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time dwelling in this. I think there's far

more value in the financial statements themselves. So, that's what that is and why you have it. And I'm pretty much at the end. Any final questions on anything I talked about or anything I did not talk about that you were wondering about? Thank you, sir. Uh, Commissioner, do you have any questions for our auditor? Question. Commissioner German. Yes. Thank you uh mayor and thank you Eric for doing this um been here for a few years I've been around um just on the section two on their um financial state statement findings when you talked about the material weaknesses and um some of the strengths could you just talk about that um what page are you looking at there I look like I'm on page uh let me see

are you on 168 by chance uh yeah is that it mine said 177 oh Okay, sorry just to clarify those we had some recommendations from last year. This is actually the summary schedule of prior year audit findings. So there we had three recommendations from last year and those were all acted upon. So as is noted their current status these were recommendations were implemented. So um we consider them to be addressed and taken care of. Sorry I should have clarified that if you saw those you're like well there are recommendations. They're actually last year's recommendations. It's just required in a single audit that prior year recommendations be addressed and they have well they're the uh city's response to them and they have all been addressed. Okay, great. Yep. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner German.

Y any other questions, commissioners? No.

Well, before I go, I certainly want to say thank you to the city commission for having us out to do your audit every year. It's always a pleasure to come out and see you. And uh you know, we're just a couple blocks down the road, so it's always fun just to see what's going on around the city. And I got to tell you, I was here during the quiet times when the mall was gone and it was a big empty field and holy smokes, it's not the same city anymore. There's so much going on. It's been nice to be a part of that. So, so anyway, thank you to all of you and I'd say certainly thank you to city staff as well. Um, I certainly would single out Ken, Jessica, and Sarah who we get to drive nuts for a few weeks. Um, but they put a lot of time and effort into the audit. I mean, people look to us as auditors and saying, "You guys do a lot of work." And while we do um an audit isn't really possible without a lot of work on the city's end as well. So to them and to the staff that serve with them and to other department heads um we certainly appreciate the time and effort. So thank you very much and we look forward to seeing you again next audit. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Van. Mr. Manager.

Yes. And I just want to reiterate um what Mr. Van said about um uh Director Grant and his team. They've the amount of time and effort that they put into this audit for 6 months of the year is unreal. Um, and I and I I can't overstate how much time they put into it. Uh, and the product that we have, uh, this year, uh, with, you know, the the clean audit and how everything's presented, this really goes to show how hard the finance and administrative division works to to do things well on behalf of our residents. So, thank you. Absolutely. Um and and a reflection of that is um the certificate of achievement for excellence in financial reporting uh that your team and our city has received because of of your work. And not only did we receive that for last year's audits, we're a little behind, but uh last year's audit um and report was the 38th consecutive year in which the city has achieved that designation. and that is um certificate of achievement provided by the government finance officers association of the United States and Canada. Um and so kudos and congrats on uh maintaining that uh level of excellence um for our city and thank you for all the work of your team and all the different other departments that were funneling [clears throat] information to you to to make sure that this audit could be done properly. Um, and it's a relief to see that it was clean, unmodified, and uh without any uh uh faults [laughter] or deficiencies. Yes. All right. Unless there's any final questions or comments from commissioners, we're going to move on. Uh, first up, we have a public hearing for the establishment of a commercial redevelopment district for 356 Westwestern Avenue. Good evening. If you kind introduce yourself and please

report out on this item.

Good evening. My name is Jocelyn Hines and I serve as the development analyst here for the city of Moskegan. So, as you all know, this is the for a public hearing for the establishment of a commercial redevelopment district. um districts must be created prior to considering a commercial um certificate for this project. Um this address is specific to the um Century Club building is potentially going to be under new ownership um with um a commercial facilities exemption certificate. It allows the um property taxes to be frozen for a certain amount. So this is the first step um before we can um consider the um commercial facilities exemption certificate is approval of the district.

All right. Thank you Anna Hines. Uh this is a public hearing commissioner. So we're going to open up to any comment from uh the public. Afterwards I'll ask that you all make a motion to close the public hearing and um consider what's before us and then we'll have any questions and discussion amongst the commission. So, is there anyone in the audience that wishes to give comment with regard to the establishment of a commercial redevelopment district for 356 Westwestern Avenue, commonly known as the Sentry Club? I don't see any takers in the audience. We're going to go to the phones. The phone number is 2317246721. If you're calling on this item, and we're only taking um public comment as part of a public hearing for the establishment of this particular commercial redevelopment district. Um if you're calling in with comments on this public hearing, please turn down the audio in the background. State your name. Um and if you're a city of Mske resident, which neighborhood you're calling from. There was a bit of a lag so between what's stated here and people see it at Facebook or YouTube. So we'll give it a few moments. Excuse [clears throat] me.

Does not sound like we have any callers for this particular public hearing. Commissioners, I would entertain a motion. I move to close the public hearing and approve the establishment of the commercial redevelopment district for 356 Westwestern Avenue and authorize the mayor and city clerk to sign the attached resolution. Support.

Support. We have a motion by commissioner or vice mayor Keenir supported by commissioner coachin. Uh starting with you vice mayor. Do you have anything you wish to ask or share on this matter? I I really don't. I'm looking forward to the development. It's great to have more jobs and it's really great that it's going to be um um it's going to be a doctor's office. So really looking forward to that.

Any advice commissioner coin? Um, yeah. So, I I also would like to echo those sentiments. The pediatric office that'll be going in there, I think, will be a great addition to our community. Um, I think that I'm really excited to see what they do. I'm really hoping that they keep a lot of the building's interior historic touches because they are just so beautiful. Um, but I'm looking forward to see what happens. Anything else commissioners to ask or add at this time? Commissioner German. Yes. Thank you, mayor. Um, is the developers here today do Okay. I'd like to hear from the developers after the Yeah, if you don't mind, I'm going to um ask the developer up when we consider the certificate. Okay.

Um, so the next item, I'll ask them up to present because yeah, I would like to hear um what all their uh other than that, I echo the same sentiment. Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner German. If there's no other questions or comments on the establishment of the district, roll call, please. Commissioner St. Clair. Yes. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilgo, yes. Vice Mayor Keenir, yes. Commissioner German, yes. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Cochen, yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. Next up, [clears throat] we have public hearing for the issuance of a commercial facilities exemption certificate. Now that we've just established the district, 4356 West Western Avenue. Welcome back analyst Hind development analyst here for the city of Moskegan. So this is a public hearing to discuss the issuance of a commercial facilities exemption certificate for 356 Westwestern Avenue. Um is was the Century Club. Um King Real Estate Holdings is planning to rehab the 15,000 foot Century Club building. Um they're looking at about a $475,000 investment. Um as you all mentioned in the last public hearing that it will be a um pediatric office. So the um pediatric office is currently located in the city of Moskegan Ontar. They're hoping that um this the Century Club can be their forever home for that um doctor's office in addition to they plan to still maintain the Century Club ballroom on the top floor, the pediatric on the the um ground level floor and potentially looking at um some familyfriendly entertainment in the basement as well as maybe could um keeping one of the current tenants in that space as well. So, um, as you all can see, they're hoping to do some significant um, rehab to the building, but also keeping the integrity of the building as well. Um, the internal tax committee met um, and we decided based on the taxable value and some other factors that are outlined in our um, our um, rubric that we use that we are recommending a four-year um, four years for this particular um, certificate. and the um the property owner is here if there are any specific questions to about the project.

Excellent. Thank you.

This is a public hearing, so we're gonna open it up to the audience. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to give comment as part of this public hearing for the uh issuance of a commercial facilities exemption certificate for 356 Westwestern? I don't see anyone in the audience that wish to give comments. We're going to go to the phones. The phone number is 231-724-6721. Uh this is phone in comment times specifically with regard to the issuance of a commercial facilities exemption certificate. I need to read the [clears throat] he goes to two pages.

Does not sound like we have any takers for phone and comments for this public hearing. Uh Commissioner German. Oh yes. I move to close the public hearing and approve the 4-year commercial facility exemption certificate for King Real Estate Holdings LLC and authorize a mayor and clerk to sign the application and resolution support. We have a motion by Commissioner German supported by Vice Mayor Keenir. Uh Commissioner German, do you have any questions for staff before we call the developer? Uh no, I don't not at this time. Okay. Sir, if you could kindly come up to the podium and introduce yourself.

Hello. Thank you for uh giving me an opportunity uh to be heard and to consider this application and process. My name is Aaron King. Um my wife and I have been in the area for 14 years now. We have four children. Um I am a youth hockey coach here for the Moskegan Lumberjacks. I thought I'd mention that. Um my wife's practice uh Moskegan Pediatrics has uh been uh in operation for 5 years at 888 Terrace where we lease the building or lease a space there, [clears throat and cough] excuse me. And uh we are seeking to purchase the Century Club um on Western and we have secured uh funding financing for that and expect to close within the next couple of weeks. Um the project as uh stated by Joselyn bite just uh I mentioned that um Jocelyn Hines has been an exceptional advocate for the city and uh steward of the process and has really helped make that easy and smooth as a business owner um as an investor. Um it's really great to see that and she's been a great partner as has every member of the city that I've dealt with. Apologies. [clears throat] I've been uh barking as a coach on the ice a lot lately, so I'm not sick, I promise. Um we are uh seeking to move her practice to the Century Club on the main floor as mentioned um as a forever location for the practice. Um we will preserve the Century Club Ballroom, as a wedding and entertainment venue. Um and we do indeed seek to I forgot who asked that. I I believe it was um uh Commissioner Kener. Um we do indeed uh expect to preserve the um aesthetic of the building out and in um especially the ballroom. Uh it is indeed a beautiful uh set of architecture that has storied history here in in the city um which I've come to learn and [snorts] uh truly appreciate. I'm excited

honestly to uh to be able to be a part of that history. Um we will uh we will also seek to develop the the lower level the basement or the lower level of the building as mentioned either as a familyfriendly uh entertainment um possibly additional retail space um because that that what that has come up several times is doing trying to keep retail. Um I've extended a lease opportunity for the current um primary tenant on the main floor, skis te's. Um and uh we're working through that and we'll we'll see how that comes out. But um we're certainly long-term committed to the city. Um we've lived in this area, as I said, for 14 years and expect to retire here. Um and I I seek to contribute in additional ways beyond this long term. Um [snorts] the project will, as I said, will close in um in the next couple of weeks. We'll begin bidding and uh and uh permitting um in February. Um the bidding process will I've asked the builder, which is Moskegan Quality Builders, by the way. Um uh an excellent long-term builder that's been in this community for decades. Um, I've asked Tom, uh, the general contractor there to, um, seek to be inclusive in the bidding process to make sure that, um, that we give we seek to find, um, uh, contractors who represent the makeup of our community. Um, and so, um, that way we're we're providing a good, um, fair way to be inclusive in our bidding and and, uh, contracting process. Um we'll we'll we'll uh start construction shortly thereafter and seek to conclude construction in June and move in in July. So we're on a we're on a pretty tight schedule, but um everyone believes that we're on track to do that.

So as mentioned um I'm proud of the fact that we [clears throat] uh will be uh seeking to hire another doctor which will also come in with an additional clinic uh clinical support person. So, that'll be two long-term jobs and then in addition to the construction jobs that we're adding short term. Excellent. Thank you, Mr. King. Commissioner German. Oh, yes. Thank you, Mayor and thank you, uh, Mr. King. Um, and, um, I commend you for, um, wanting to do business here in the city of Moskegan. Um, um, you answered a few of the questions or, addressed a few of the questions that I was going to ask, but also um, I was going to ask who's the medical professional. So you stay stated that was your wife. Okay.

My wife and and working with the kids and youth is you know so dear to me also. So that's a profession as well. Um

that's a old building and um a lot of historical value there. Um there's been some other proposals and offers. Um, but I'm glad to see that we're going to have something that could actually um serve the people as well and then keep that historical value and culture and character of that building to also like you stated um the ballroom and and other um opportunities. Also, um you touched on something that's very dear to me when it comes to fair opportunity and equitable opportunity for jobs and um for contracts and and local contractors and um also um options for minority uh contractors, which I don't see a lot of in Moskegan when we see these jobs and they bid out. Um, and I have to say specifically, you know, black contractors, um, I'm glad you brought that up and and addressed that because that's one of the things that I really, uh, like to see more of and I'm not seeing a lot of that because um, for some reason the opportunity is not there for whatever reason, but we have to make that happen. As you can see, this uh, commission here has changed over the years. Um, and we need to have our city reflect our government body and our workers and be able to look like the city that we serve. So, the fair opportunity is definitely um something that's dear to me and I really appreciate you um looking to address that as well. So,

yeah, I couldn't agree more and I seek the commission's guidance. If there are is a list of uh of contractors that we should make sure we include, I'd be happy to I would ask you to please. Yeah, and I I do know some. So, if um I can have a contact them or something like that, um I could be, you know, a voice also in that process. I couldn't agree more. Um I the board represents community. The work that's done in our community should be represented by the the It should look like the people that live here. Exactly. Well, well, thank you again. Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. German. Manager, who maintains that list? Which department?

Uh, development service would probably be the one that would have any type of our contractor lists. So, okay. So, I noticed that reference in our commission handbook um with regard to our goals um on contractors and subcontractors and mentioned that a list is maintained and available. Um, thank you, Commissioner German. Vice Mayor Kenir has a supportive. Do you have anything that you wish to I don't ask. All right. Commissioners, is there anything to ask? Commissioner Cochen?

Yes. Um I am a firm believer in supporting people and kind of applauding them when they do something right. So, thank you very much for taking the time and dedication to making sure that the building stays um historically important and bringing new jobs here to the city and considering diversity and also helping the community just like every commissioner German said, it is so important. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure.

Thank you, Commissioner Goen. Anything else, commissioners? Um, with regard to the buildout, do you anticipate when you say the first floor, it's the first flight of steps, that's the first floor where skis te's is off to the right. So, do you envision that entire floor being used for pediatric and clinical purposes? Yes. So, our current plans have um the entrance being modified so that there is a bore with the Moskegan pediatrics logo inside the building to enter the practice and then it's open to the stairwell going up and down. [clears throat] And then it's otherwise it's all it's all exam rooms, offices, things like that.

Okay. So then the offer for skis T's is for them to potentially move to the basement. Yes. Well, so production on one side and then retail would be on the other side. Okay. And you anticipate, you said you'd like to try to find family-friendly entertainment option to go down there, but otherwise you'd be envisioning making that basement available for other retail suites and spaces and the like.

Sure. I mean, I I'm I'm very open to um either a retail tenant or uh partnering with an operator for family entertainment. Um and I'm I'm I'm definitely open to the city's ideas on what belongs there um in terms of attracting improving, you know, the the aggregate business in the area.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate uh your interest in u repurposing this this building. Um, I know there programming has been somewhat uh challenging uh there and to do so in a in a sustainable uh way and so I appreciate you taking that on and making space for skis te's as one of the um longtime tenants there. Um it's one of the reasons that I go there and there um I don't neessy shop at all the other places but um um I've gone and found some good things at skis te. So I'm happy that they might have an opportunity to continue. Yeah, we've had shirts. This one isn't, but we've had shirts printed by skis te's. Definitely. Yeah. Is that um your wife's practice? Yes. Mskian pediatrics. Yes. Very nice. I like it.

We we definitely took a hint from the logo design. We we started the practice. I was signing uh loan paperwork in March of 2020. I don't know if you remember what happened in March of [laughter] 2020. That's when we moved. Prior to that, she had been practicing with Dr. Woods and Dr. Mel who have been pediatricians in this community for decades. uh many of your children or you may even have uh had them as pediatricians growing up. So, excellent. Thank you. Uh thank you again for being here and for your uh interest in investing uh here in our in our city and uh thank you for choosing to grow with Miss Keegan. All right. If there's no other questions or comments, roll call, please. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilo,

yes. Vice Mayor Keenir, yes. Commissioner German, yes. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Cochen, yes. Commissioner St. Clair, yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. I don't see any federal, state, or county partners here this evening to give us any updates. Uh, so we're going to go on to public comment on agenda items. I don't have any forms. Um, you all received any forms? No. Okay. Uh, we're going to Is there anyone in the audience that wish to give public comment on agenda item? Seeing no takers, we're going to go to the phones. That phone number is 231-724-6721. Uh this is an opportunity to phone in comments specifically with regard to an agenda item. It looks like all we have are consent agenda items. Um and so it' be one of those items A through H. So if you're calling in with any comment, please identify the item which you're speaking on. State your name. Um, and if you're sitting Msk resident, which neighborhood you may be calling from? All right. Does not sound like we have any takers for phone and comments and agenda items. Moving on to the consent agenda. Commissioners, you've had an opportunity to review. Are there any items that you wish to have removed for separate consideration and vote? Commissioner German.

Uh, yes. Thank you, Mayor. Item C as in cat. Uh, F and G.

Commissioner Cochen. Uh, item E as an elephant.

Commissioner Kgo. Item D is in dog. D is in dog. Yes, sir. All right, there are no others. I would to entertain a motion to adopt the consent agenda as presented minus items C, D, E, F, G. Some moved. Support. All right, we have a motion by Commissioner Sinclair, supported by Commissioner Kilgo. Discussion. Roll call, please. Commissioner Kilgall. Yes, Vice Mayor Keenir. Yes, Commissioner German. Yes,

Commissioner Jackson. Yes, Commissioner Cochen. Yes, Commissioner St. Clair. Yes. Mayor Johnson? Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Item C, 2026, wage matrix for non-union part-time and limited term employees. Commissioner German. Oh, yes. Thanks again, Mayor. I move on the recommendation adoption for the 2026 wage matrix for non-union part-time and limited term employees. We have a motion by Commissioner Germans, supported by Commissioner Sinclair. Good evening. Welcome back.

Ken Grant, finance director. I'm doing this on behalf of Dana Thompson who could not make it tonight. So, um so if you have any questions, hopefully I can answer them. But it pretty much we update this once a year to um upgrade part-time and limited positions and we kind of use uh standard rate that I I don't know what percentage she used but she did increase it from the year before Director Gman.

All right. Thank you, Director Grant and the good work that you're doing. Um that was one of my concerns. Um, I know these are part-time employees and they work hard. Um, as commissioner, um, these things come in front of us and I try to be fair and try to make sure that, uh, my employees are, uh, getting decent and and fair wages and increases also um because we couldn't do the work without them also um, being part of the city. I guess um with inflation and that's another thing and you know everything's going up seemed like except wages.

So I I wanted to find out um what percentage and um the increase um from um last year to uh this year to try to meet I didn't I I think she used 3%. I'm not she bet I don't know I don't know if you call me out city manager or not. I'm I was I'm trying to look it up right now. [laughter] Yeah. She said this will not get pulled. I know. She [laughter] thinks [clears throat]

and one of the other factors that she does look at when looking at this is the change to the minimum wage. So, we did have a change in the minimum wage on January 1 for both minimum wage and um the minor minimum wage. So

I remember saying talking to her she said I think it was 3% that she increased it but I I could do the quick math from last year but she did increase it and I and I know she took it to the agenda review to I wasn't there for that either but um but she could not make it tonight because her her she had to take her dad to the um some medical stuff but What's this?

[laughter] I just texted her that commission. [laughter] She knows how to get a hold of you. Um, wonder if we did it in December 24. I found 2024. 25. Yeah. Now that's coming slow. I know. You got it. December. She's on a roll. Um, she said she didn't do a increase, but she did she didn't do a a percentage. She increased some by dollar amount. So, like a dollar and some by 50 cents.

So, um, so she just looked at those and she increased some by a dollar based on, you know, like the adjustment to the minimum wage and things like that. So it wasn't a percentage across the board. She did some by dollars and she did some by 50 cents. Okay. So yeah, which equate more to like they equate more than 3 or 4% than right. I would think so. Yeah. Cuz I'm looking at the minimum wage um as of January 26 it look like is 1373 and um by 2027 we'll be up to about $15. And by that time food and groceries and all those things increase as well. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she will increase it again next year too. So it just just for this 2026 and we'll look at it again next year

and to make adjustments every year keep keep you know keep we take that in consideration. Okay. And now are these part-time employees are they receiving any type of health benefits also? I think so. Okay. And has there been any conversation or way that we can give partial benefits to um these part-time employees? Not not healthcare. They have to be fulltime. Okay. Okay. They um the new ESTA rules do apply for sick time benefits. So for uh once they work I think it's 30 hours they have to receive one hour of of uh time off um to be used for sick time. So so they do get sick time benefits. Sick time. Okay. But they don't get better like

health benefits. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's all I have. I yield my time. Okay. Sorry. [laughter] Sorry I didn't have all the answers. Thank you. I appreciate your effort. Thank you Commissioner German. Yeah. Commissioner Sinclair, is the support of the motion. You have anything to ask, Brad? Uh, the only thing that I would add is I appreciate the fact that we pay our interns. Um, as somebody who did a whole lot of unpaid intern time in my career, um, I I think that's a really valuable contribution that we can provide to the community as as people are navigating their education. So, and I appreciate that we're also giving them a raise. So,

and the one thing that we probably use are like the most um like I said is probably for our election workers. So, we so we do pay them a fair wage. I mean, they don't work a lot of hours, but we do give them a decent amount when they do work. And then we have some people work flat amounts and things like that. So, but um so we do we take care of our election workers and that's one of the most coveted positions. A lot of people don't work to elections. And I do hear that people enjoy working sit elections. Thank you, Commissioner Sinclair. Commissioner Goan, did you have something?

Um, I also wanted to echo the sentiment of appreciation that we are increasing uh the wages as Commissioner German pointed out. Um, the minimum wage is not keeping up with inflation. Uh, it it is kind of crazy to think about how much you have to make now versus how much you had to make even 5 years ago. um six years ago because it's 2026 now. So six years ago. So that things have changed so much in the past six years where you could get by making $50,000 a year and you were doing fairly okay and now that's like poverty level wages practically. So it's really good to see that we're increasing this. I would love to see it increased further especially since we just went over the budget and we're doing fairly well. So I would like to see that um you know increased again in the in the near future. But appreciate all the work that uh Dana did on this and um I hope everything's okay.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Cochen. Anything else commissioners to ask or no? All right. Thanks, Grant. Thank you. Roll call, please. Vice Mayor Keenir, yes. Commissioner German, yes. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Cochen, yes. Commissioner St. Clair, yes. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilgo, yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Item D, 2024, Justice Assistance Grant. Commissioner Kilgo. I move to approve the 2024 JAG grant memorandum of understanding and authorize the mayor to sign to receive the grant funds. Support.

We have a motion by Commissioner Kilog, supported by Commissioner Cochen. Good evening. Hi, Emily Morgan Stern, police community coordinator here at the city of Moskegegan. So, this is a federal grant. This is our sixth year receiving these funds. Um, how it's broken down is into county levels. Um, and then appropriated to communities that are facing disparities. So, both the city of Moskegan and Moskegan Heights get funds. The city of Moskegan, the county of Moskegan does not get any funds. Um, and the city of Moskegan, we are the fiduciary. So, then we will give out the money to the city of Moskegan Heights. Um so it's general practice signing thisou um and we have been using this for the last six years um for parliamentary law to give legal representation for our citizens that need issues with like neighborhood issues. Um so whether that's just filing paperwork representing in court or mediation as well.

Thank you Commissioner Kilgo. Thank you. Yeah. I just needed clarity because our packet said the grant is used for prosecution of city ordinance cases. So I was reading it backwards because it just said prosecution of city ordinances. I thought it was a grant for us to prosecute citizens who violate city ordinances. Is that so? It's the opposite. the funding is really for our constituents who need legal help to fight stuff that they get from city or I I just I'm trying to get some clarity on what the grant funds are actually used for.

Yep. And maybe I think I did misspoke myself. So, it is for those issues with the neighbors um that we would have to normally deal with. And I know Brennan, you're very new to this. Um and I know John, he was attorney Shrier was great with handling this. So, I've been kind of off hands for kind of how that all happens. Um, so I don't know if you have any background or No. And I believe it is uh at least it's my understanding as it's drafted in the agenda that we do prepare a report on a monthly basis to highlight the prosecutions that we do on behalf of the city as part of our JAG report.

Yes. So, yes, Commissioner Clego, I misspoke myself. Um, okay. Thank you. Um, m Mr. Manager, if you could maybe help, what kind of things does the city use these funds for? Could you elaborate a little bit more? Um this I think as legal council was pointing out it is to help with um processing of legal issues that come before the city. Um and I think as Emily pointed out uh uh attorney Shrier might be able to give some more detail because he's the one that was really u h handling this program. So I'm honestly I don't have a lot of information on it. Gotcha. So, it's on our agenda to vote more on the memorandum of understanding part because some of these funds go to our neighbors in Moskegan Heights and they use those funds which they may need, right? So, I'm not going to object to theou with our neighbors in Moskegan Heights. I am concerned that we're getting grant funds for prosecuting what can't be explained right now. So, I will look more into that, but that's why I pulled this item. I'm very curious cuz I think a lot of our constituents may need help on the other end. Maybe they get a fine for a broken down car that's on their terrace or something like that and then come to find out that the person's elderly and uh indigent and they can't do something about it. And I kind of want to make sure that we have programs in the city to help more people, not prosecute more people. But thank you very much.

Yeah. And I can definitely work with the city attorney's office to get a fuller report about what the current funds are being used for. Um, and then we can also kind of work together to see those gaps and what other funds may be out there. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank.

Yes. Um, thank you very much uh for pulling this, Commissioner Kilgo. Um, I wasn't going to at first, but you brought up a good point. Um, I also would like to get more clarification um on that as well because I I second that. I agree that I think we have citizens who probably need help. Um, and I would like to hear more about the details um of that. So, if you could let me know about that when you find out, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Cos. Commissioner, is there anything else to ask or add? Uh so I know we've been getting this JAG grant for many years. Um so this is a new dollars um and I believe we've been administrating this way as well for many years where we as handling it and then assisting or partnering with the heights as well um to to assist them in getting these resources in terms of prosecution of local ordinances. understand it. Um those are prosecutions that have to happen regardless. And so if we don't have these grant dollars that that just comes from our general fund dollars and we have to pay for it. Um and so by being able to utilize and receive these external resources, it helps um free up re resources internally um within our city.

And they are just for like a big picture. It's about three and a half months worth of paral laws times for that. So, it's not all of that, but it does help with a little bit with that general fund. Mhm. All right. Well, if there's nothing else to ask or add, roll call, please. Commissioner German, yes. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Cochen, yes. Commissioner St. Clair, yes. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilgo, I would like to abstain as needing more information, please. Vice Mayor Keenir. Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you. Thanks, Morgan Stern. All right. Next item. Resolution revoking an obsolete property rehabilitation act or OPRA exemption certificate for GZI Investments LLC. Commissioner Cochen. Yes. I move to adopt the resolution revoking the Obsolete Property Rehabilitation Act or Oprah Exemption Certificate for GZI Investments LLC at 1937 Lakeshore Drive. Support.

Motion by Commissioner Coaching, supported by Commissioner St. Clair. Good evening.

Good evening. Isabella Gonzalez, development analyst for the city of Moskegan. So, um, this resolution, uh, is to revoke the Oprah certificate for the property located at 1937 Lakeshore Drive. So, on March 12th, 2019, the city commission approved a resolution to establish an Oprah exemption certificate uh, for Richard Gzi of GZI Investments LLC. Um, the property, 1937 Lakeshore Drive, was the former Harbor Theater. Um the expected project at the time was a 1.1 million redevelopment. Um and they were approved for 12 years. The project was required to commence within two years of the certificates issuance. Um the deadline was March 12th, 2021. Unfortunately, the project was not completed within the required construction period and the property has since changed ownership. So, a new mixeduse redevelopment project is now proposed for the site and staff has prepared a resolution to revoke the existing certificate in order to allow the current property owners uh to consider the future development incentives.

Thank you for that report, Commissioner Coach.

Yes. Um, thank you very much uh Miss Gonzalez for putting this together. Um, I think I speak on everybody on behalf of my ward when I say I'm sad to see that the harbor is gone, but I'm excited to see what's going to come next. Um, the the reason why I pulled this item is because I wanted everybody in my ward to know that this was this change was coming and what it might look like, but also I wanted to ask a couple of questions about the the OPRA. Um, because you said that it had to be initiated [clears throat] in within two years and expired in 2021. So what exactly like how come we haven't revoked it sooner is the kind of the question.

It is my knowledge that uh this uh OPRA certificate uh was not checked up on because of a period of transition with economic development. Okay. And then um there hasn't been any kind of economic benefits that they've gotten since 2021 when that expired. Correct. They did complete some of the work on the property and were given a different taxable value. Um, however, after a conversation with the city treasurer, uh, we decided not to claw back taxes for the property due to, uh, possibly being costly, more costly than the taxes themselves. Okay, I understand. Thank you very much for that explanation.

Thank Coachen, Commissioner Sinclair. Uh I I will echo Commissioner Coachin and that I'm excited to see something happening with this property. Um it's uh been a long time coming. So um hopefully this will help clear the way for something new to come in there. Thank Commissioner Sinclair there. Anything else to ask or add? Commissioners? Nope. All right. Thank Gonzalez roll call please. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Cochen, yes. Commissioner St. Clair, yes. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilgo,

yes. Vice Mayor Kenir, yes. Commissioner German, yes. Motion pass. Thank you. Next item. F. Amendment to purchase and development agreement for 286 and 294 Myrtle. Commissioner German. All right. Thank you, Mayor. I move to authorize the code coordinator to amend the purchase and development agreement with RSW Holding LLC and Barrelstone Capital LLC approved on June 10th, 2025 as described and to have the mayor and clerk signed a purchase agreement addendum.

Support motion by Commissioner German, supported by Commissioner Sinclair. Good evening.

Hi, I am Sam Pulis. I am the city's code coordinator. And this item is um another amendment to the same purchase agreement that we saw in December. Um this one however is a double encroachment issue. Um for this this property it had some a unique situation on the westerly side and the easterly side. Um to the east we had a house that was pretty much right on the partial line. Um, and so to build two houses here, we're we're um proposing to build one house here. Uh, if we built two houses, it would crowd the house to the east. To the westerly, that encroachment issue is an established shed in a parking area of a neighboring property. um that at 794 Wrathburn that shed if we we thought about moving it. We thought about a couple different um solutions to the problem. It was a build on ch sites shed. So if we were if we were to pick it up, it would essentially fall apart um causing hardship on the neighbor, which we don't want to do. So it is our position that the best thing to do here is to recombine these lots and to build one house, one single family home. and the developer is here uh their representative is here to speak if necessary.

Commissioner German.

Uh yes, thank you mayor and thank you and welcome. Um this was brought to my attention yesterday by city manager and um after hearing this I just want to say um thank you to the work that you do um the uh resident and the developer to work together to try to resolve issues and and problems so um they can maintain their share of the property once they you lived and where they lived for all of those years. But the hardship of picking up a shed and moving it and the concrete would have created some type of hardship. So, I'm really uh appreciative of that and I reached out to the resident and um if the developer is here also um like to hear from him and if the resident wants to come up and speak. But I just think this shows uh good communication, but also a level of where uh residents and developers in the city can all work together for the greater good of each other. So I want to thank you for that.

Thank you, Commissioner German. Commissioners, do you have any questions for staff? Commissioner Coach. Yes. Uh thank you. Um, Director Pulos, uh, the the changes, uh, on this site that they get a little convoluted. Um, and for people following along at home, how many houses are going to be on the site total? One. Just one? Yes. Okay.

Originally, we split the lot into two pieces. We were going to build a single family home. The developer, excuse me, um, was going to build a single family home on each half. Um so are we are asking to combine it back into one lot and then I will do boundary adjustment to accommodate the encroachment issues on both sides and build one single family home. Okay. And then I know we give uh like specific timelines for things. We are keeping that in account right while we're doing this. Okay. Yes, of course. And they're still well within their timeline. Y thank commissioner coach and commissioner Kilgo. Thank you. by chance as are are we building an ADU on this property also just a single family?

Yes. Thank you. Anything else to ask, Miss Pulos? No. All right. Uh heard a request for the developer. Uh Commissioner German, what uh new information are you looking to receive on this project from the developer? Well, um the scope of the project uh pretty much uh is that's going to be as you said a uh single family home. Yes. On one lot and the other was uh two single family homes.

Oh, two single family homes. Okay. And um I just wanted to just kind of hear from the developer um as his view of working with the neighbors um because I had went out there to the site and they had talked and you know just to share those stories that and he doesn't have to come up or she doesn't have to come up but I just think that it's um it says a lot about how people can work together and if um the community hear these stories because we have a lot development going on within this community and um due to the zoning changes, I've heard it from residents and they were not happy about all the developing development and houses being built next to them after they've had these lots and open spaces. But again, I just think it's so important to uh communicate and try to work things out in a diplomatic way and be pragmatic about things. So that was my only reason for it, you know, and if they would like to share something, that's fine. If not, I'm not going to, you know, insist though.

Uh to the developers representative, is there anything you wish to uh share with the commission this even? I know you've been up uh here a number of times before on this project and others, but you're welcome.

Thank you. Yes, my name is Karen Novak. I'm here on behalf of Borrow Stone and RSW. Um, no. I think it was just really apparent that when we went and saw it after we had the survey and we staked it out. Um, you know, we talked with the neighbor, we wanted to make sure that it wasn't encroaching on on their homes on either side. And the home on the eastern kind of um point was almost it was a foot and a half over the parcel line. Um, and on the other side there was uh, you know, the shed and the parking. And I I mean I talked to the neighbors. This is a family who has been there long term and it's, you know, important to keep that neighborhood and con and that community kind of true to its roots and making sure that it's not overcrowding, that it's not creating hardships for them. Um, also they're just so sweet that I really just wanted to make sure that it worked out really well. Um, and it just makes sense to recombine these two parcels, make one nice home on this block. I think it's really important to stay true to the community and to the space. And it'll be a really great location for one single family home that's going to be um you know, sold to a long-term resident, hopefully somebody in the community who wants to be able to buy here. So, yeah, we're just really excited um for the opportunity to continue with the project, make it true to the community, and make sure that it's honoring the neighbors because um that's extremely important to me. I want to make sure that we're only making improvements. I think that's the difference between some small incremental building versus large development. We can sit and talk with each neighbor at each parcel and walk the site and say, "Does this make sense here?" So, I appreciate your time or consideration and if you have any questions, please let me know. Um, I just wanted to make sure that it fit well.

Thank you. I appreciate you uh the work that you're doing and um being a good neighbor, you know, to be a good neighbor. Uh, Commissioner German, did you have? No, I don't have any. Thank you. And I appreciate you coming and and letting the public know and um working with the uh resident as well. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Commissioner German. Commissioner Kilgo. Thank you, Miss Novak. I just want to thank you because there are some developers who may come into our city and say legally this is on my property line. I don't care. Tear it down. It's on my property. This is now the second time you've been in front of us where you've worked with people in the city first with the garden and now with this neighbor shed

and not a lot of developers go the extra mile. So, please continue. You're very welcome in the city. Uh, I'm working with um some education folks to bring home buyer education so some of the people that already live, work, and love the city of Moskegan can buy homes and they can be first-time home built buyers and build generational wealth. And we need good developers to continue to come into our city that want to be part of the city and work with residents. So, I really just want to thank you for the the extra mile that you've gone.

Thank you. It's been really exciting. I have an another property that I'm helping with on oak and I met the neighbor and they happen to own the parcel next door and the brother is now building on that and I'm helping walk them through those steps to develop it. Um since he's you know living with his his sister and they've wanted to develop it for a long time and it's just really awesome to be able to help him that way. Um, my day job is treasury management and fraud mitigation, and I just happen to love uh these developments and being able to help create community. That's that's the best way I can put it. So, thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Thank you. And well done. Thank you. [clears throat]

Anything else commissioners to ask or add? All right. Thank you, Mr. Nov. Um you see the neighbor in the audience um as the you know nearby affected property owner. Is there anything that you wish to share with the commission? All right. Thank you. Thanks Pulos. Thank you. If there's nothing else roll call please. Commissioner Cochen. Yes. Commissioner St. Clair. Yes. Mayor Johnson. Yes. Commissioner Kilgo. Yes. Vice Mayor Kenir. Yes. Commissioner German. Yes, [clears throat] Commissioner Jackson. Yes. Motion passes.

Thank you. Uh, next and final item from our consent agenda is G. Sale 5 02 Oak Avenue. Commissioner German. Yes. Thanks, Mayor. Um, I move to authorize staff to sell the city owned vacant lot at 502502 to David Arnold, Inc. Have a motion [snorts] by Commissioner German, supported by Commissioner Coachen. Good evening again.

Hi, still me, Sam Pulis, code coordinator. Uh, this item is the sale of 502 Oak. This is a 66x 132 ft lot and the developer proposes to build a duplex and an ADU here. Thank you, M. Commissioner German. Uh, yes. Hey, welcome again. Um I'm I'm I know that area, but I'm I'm Is this a corner lot? It is not. And this is

I walked this I looked at this extensively. Um to the east of this is a land bank lot um that I believe a single family home will be on. To the west are established homes with no apparent encroachment issues. Um so Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Because I know exactly where it's at now. Yeah. U because I tried to find it. Um, it's to the west of 514 Oak. Okay. Yeah, I know exactly where it's at. Okay. Now, this is uh duplex. That duplex and an ADU. Okay. And uh no alley or anything back there. Not the none is required for duplex only triplexes. That's okay. That's right. Okay. Developers here.

Um their representative is Cara Novak who just spoke. Oh. Oh. Okay. [laughter] Okay. Well, um I have no questions there. No more questions. Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner German. Commissioner Coach. All right. Uh Commissioner, is there anything else to ask or add? Commissioner Kilg. Yeah, I did just drive by here the other day. Is someone already starting construction on this or is that the lot next to I4 Oak? It's the lot next to I I believe that's an Alen Edwin site. Um it was a county land bank lot, but I believe that's on their list. Yeah. And they're building the affordable rentals. Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. If there's nothing else to ask or add, commissioners,

roll call, please. Commissioner St. Clair, yes. Mayor Johnson, yes. Commissioner Kilgo, yes. Vice Mayor Kenir, yes. Commissioner German, yes. Commissioner [clears throat] Jackson, yes. Commissioner Coch, yes. Motion passes. Thank you. All right, that concludes our consent agenda. We do not have any unfinished business to address. No new business. That brings us to any other business. Commissioners, Commissioner Keenan. Yes. Or Vice Mayor Keenir.

Oh, I'm still getting used to it. Um, I just wanted to read a short notice on um, last week's communication. Um, and I tend to get scatter brain, so I typed it out. Um, but to the residents of the city of Moskegan and my fellow commissioners, I would like to sincerely apologize for the confusion and lack of clarity that occurred during last last week's commission meeting. As elected officials, we carry a responsibility to communicate thoughtfully, clearly, and with intention, especially when our words and actions directly affect the public's trust in local government. During that meeting, it became evident that I misspoke without accurate knowledge and did not communicate with the level of precision and coordination that our residents deserve. While there was no intent to mislead or cause concern, intent does not outweigh impact. I acknowledge that the discussion created uncertainty and for that I am truly sorry to the residents of the city of Moskegan. You deserve transparency, accuracy, and confidence in the decision-making process. When communication falls short, it undermines trust, and I take that seriously. I am committed to doing better by be preparing more thoroughly, asking clearer questions, and ensuring that information shared publicly is accurate and well understood. To my fellow commissioners, I appreciate the work each of you does on behalf of our community, and I regret any confusion or difficulty that arose from that meeting. Moving forward, I am committed [clears throat] to strengthening collaboration and communication so that we can continue to serve the public with unity and professionalism. I believe accountability is not just acknowledging mistakes, but learning from them. I remain dedicated to open dialogue, mutual respect, and continuous improvement in how we conduct and conduct the people's business. Thank you for your grace, your patience, and continued engagement.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate your leadership and I'm grateful for your friendship and partnership.

I I had was thinking about or planning on addressing the same matter um this evening. However, you um have addressed it so well already. And so, I will uh simply say I co-sign to the sentiments expressed in your statement. Um, and I'm committed to working collaboratively and collegiately with all of our commissioners to best serve our residents and to keep moving Moskegan forward. Um, now holding myself accountable, I do think it is necessary to apologize to Commissioner German uh for interrupting him at our organizational meeting last week. There are limited circumstances in which a chair may interrupt another board member uh who's been recognized to speak and none of those circumstances existed when I interjected. And so my interruption was inappropriate and for that I'm sorry, Commissioner German.

Apologies. It's still Commissioner Kel.

Yes. Um on a uh super positive note, I have been um working with some community members and it came up earlier about um some of the contractors that are used around town. So, just anyone who's listening, um, young people, old people, any people, um, Home Depot has a path topro, um, free trades training program. um pathtoppro.com I believe is the website and you can take some classes through Home Depot, plumbing, electrical um uh there's a whole list of things um that are in that trades um kind of area. So, I encourage anyone who's looking to learn a new skill, add to their skills because our trades are very, very duly needed in and around, especially a city like ours who's building and growing.

Did you say that was path to pro? Um, path to pro. Okay. Yes. And that was Home Depot, right? Home Depot. Yep. So, you can go to Home Depot and um or Google Home Depot path to pro and it'll come up. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner Kville. Uh, Commissioner Sinclair,

thank you. I just wanted to remind people that uh each January is an opportunity to apply to participate in a variety of opportunities on the city's uh commissions, committees, councils, boards. Uh we rely heavily on community involvement to fill those um important seats in and um we will be appointing new new individuals to new opportunities in the near future. So um I'm wondering uh Mr. manager if it might be possible to get that application pinned to the top of the the website. It's hard to find.

Um and it would be really nice if people could just pull up the website and find the application easily rather than digging through. We can do that. Yes. Perfect. And uh the clerk's office is also super helpful if you are technologically challenged and still want to participate. They have been extremely helpful to folks to navigate that process. So that's all.

Thank you, commissioners. Thanks that commissioner. Is there anything else to address under any other business? If there's nothing else, we're going to go to public comment. I've got a request to speak from, I believe, Jody Mlan joining us from the Nelson neighborhood.

Good evening, ma'am. You have up to three minutes to provide your remarks. So, good evening. My name is Jodie Mlan. I live at 15616th Street. Been here since 1999. Normally, I try not to come into these meetings. Um, but I wanted to make a request that the commissioners when you are out in public, please guard your words in light of the things that have been going on in the system over ICE. There was a great um gathering and there was a video of that. I did not go out to it, but I did see the video. And Mayor Johnson, you were very kind with your words. And Commissioner Coochin, your daughter was standing in front of you. And you said very kindly after one of the other commissioners had used a cuss word that she would refrain from that because her daughter was in front of her. And then another commissioner used cussing and then uh our representative Will Schneider I think was his name also did. I just want to remind you, I might not feel the same way as anybody else, but I love our city and you are elected officials and I need you as an elected official to represent everyone in our city wisely. You have a privileged position and how you speak makes a huge difference. I was offended and it just made me cringe

especially because her daughter was there and I'm sure that there were other children and I know that it's very hard sometimes to control yourself in an atmosphere where there is a lot of emotions flowing but I expect more from you And that is why I came here tonight. Some of you are friends. Um, but please, please represent our city with a manner of excellence. You can still express your opinions very well with very specific words. So, thank you for letting me speak this evening.

Thank you. Appreciate you joining us this evening, sharing your perspective. Next up, we have Christy Collins joining us from the Nelson neighborhood. Welcome. You have up to three minutes to provide your remarks.

Thank you. Good evening, mayor and commissioners. Um, I'm here to speak about the need for expanding public transportation in Moskegan and why this is both a data supported um and lived reality for working families just like mine. National data shows that nearly 60% of public transit users rely on it to get to work and limited routes or service hours directly affect the job stability and income. Transportation is also a major social determinant of health. According to the CDC, transportation barriers lead to more than 3.6 million missed medical appointments each year, particularly among low-income families, seniors, and people without reliable vehicles. I want to share how this looks in real life. I'm a workingclass solo parent. When my car broke down recently, I had to rely on the go-to service to get my child to a very important medical appointment that was scheduled very early in the morning. I scheduled the ride in advance, did everything right, and then the ride was cancelled by the go-to service 1 hour before the scheduled pickup time. At that moment, I was scrambling, not because I didn't have a plan, but because there was there was and is no reliable backup option. I was forced into a stressful situation where my child's healthcare depended on lastm minute luck instead of a dependable public system. I'm sure you can imagine the stress this would have caused if I was relying on public transportation to get to work, daycare, or school. This is what the data means when it becomes personal. When transit is inconsistent or limited, it doesn't just cause inconvenience, it creates real risk. Missed appointments, lost wages, increased stress on families who are already doing their best to stay afloat. Re research shows that every dollar invested in public transportation returns roughly $4 in economic benefit and that transportation costs can consume up to 30% of households in income for working families. Reliable public transit helps stabilize households, support workforce participation, and keep local dollars in our community. Improving our public transportation system is not simply

about buses or ride services. It's about economic stability, public health, and dignity for residents who rely on these systems to function. I'm requesting this commission to view our current public transportation system as critical infrastructure and to prioritize its improvement and reliability so families like mine aren't put in impossible situations. Thank you for your time and listening to the realities faced by your constituents.

Thank you, Miss Collins. Appreciate you joining us this evening. Is there anyone else in the audience that wish to give public comment at this time? Seeing no takers, we're going to go to the phones. The phone number is 231-724-6721. If you're calling in, please state your name. Turn down any audio in the background. Uh, state your name. Uh, and if you are a city of Mske resident, which neighborhood you're joining us from or calling from. If you're not a city of Mskine resident, which other township, village, or city you're calling from. We have our first caller. Good evening. You're with the city of Mskegan City Commission.

Hi. Yes, this is Michelle Tyson and I just wanted to comment on the lady's comment. Um, February the 20th we will be having a roundt uh discussing transportation with Hillary Shelton with Congresswoman Hillary Shelton. So, it would be the mayors, all of the mayors, representatives for Fruitport Township, representatives from uh Moskegan Township as well, Hillary Shelton, and she's going to be bringing her grant writer. We're going to try to find some funding to help improve transportation for Moskegan.

Thank you, Miss Tyson. You're very welcome. Tell her we are working on that. Yes, we are. Thank you. We appreciate you uh calling in uh and sharing that information. Thank you. Again, that phone number is 231-724-6721. If anyone wishes to phone in their comments. Another call. Good evening. You're with the city of Mske City Commission.

Oh,

hi there. This is Angel calling. Um I'm the owner of Earthwise and Don Thomas Eaggan. Um, I just wanted to call and voice my um, support for any initiatives that are going to increase uh, the ability for our residents to get around and uh, take care of their their needs and their and their responsibilities. As somebody who actually went for a period of time where my transportation was down, you'd be surprised at how hard it is to really have to rely on other people. And I understand that there's some of areas of our community, our broader community, that don't necessarily feel like they would want their tax dollars to go towards this. But I do think that there's many of us that are already going to start pushing for our county um to support this as a whole, we rise the together, the more of us that are able to take care of ourselves. And I feel like this is the um direction that MSA needs to go towards. So, we need to just support these initiatives and then be about the solutions to um cover the expenses for them or or anything else that needs to be um uh figured out. I'd also like to start seeing some discussion around potentially solar uh powered shade to go over our parking lots in the downtown area. And again, I would like to see some movement on changing our noise ordinance so that um those of our businesses that rely on nighttime activity or those of our um businesses that have members that don't operate within a standard 9to-5 schedule have things to do so that way um our residents are not left to their own devices and to find good trouble or bad trouble. We have places for them to go and be themselves. Um but that's it for tonight. Thanks so much, guys. Thank you, Miss Appreciate you calling in. Give it a few more moments in case anyone else pushes the phone in.

We have another call. Good evening. You're with the city of Mskegegan City Commission.

Hi, this is Chelsea McKinley. I am a resident of Mskegegan Heights, but um I know our transportation is really at the top of the list for um the whole county. I would have to say connecting those routes. Um so I love to hear people talking about that. um a concern that I've had for some time. Um I feel as though uh especially outside of the men's mission um in other areas, hight traffic areas around town, I feel like we should also prioritize um pedestrian crosswalks um and just really um have a priority towards uh making our city pedestrian accessible. Um so yeah. Uh oh, also I knew there was a third thing I was forgetting. I am very much in support of extending the noise ordinance especially on the weekend. I feel like these are the things that really prevent our city from growing in a positive direction. Um is the noise ordinance and um the public transportation and I won't take up any more of your time. Thank you so much. You guys have a great night. Okay.

Thank you, Miss McKinley. Appreciate you phoning and your comments. Do we have anyone trying to phone in during that last call? No.

Okay, just one more moment. All right, I think we are concluding our phone and comments. Same sign, we are ajourned. Thank you. Take care and be well.