City Council - Regular Meeting

I thought you thought I took it from somebody. [Music] Good evening. I'd like to bring the August 4th meeting of the Muny Common Council to order. If you'll stand, face the flag. Join me and my colleagues in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

If you'll remain standing for a moment of silence and reflection. Thank you. invocation.

Mr. President, may I say one thing before we have our invocation? Yes. I'd like to make a special prayer request if it's appropriate for us to remember uh in prayer President Mason, Council Person Selvi, and Council Person Powell who are getting ready to start school and are going to be in front of classroom in front of students for the following year. Thank you. Be with you. Thank you. That is much needed. Thank you guys.

May we all pray? Father, we thank you uh thank you for this day and um we thank you for your grace and your mercy. We thank you for your love and your kindness, Lord. We thank you for those that have gathered together um for the benefit of our city um and those that are herein, Father. And as as uh Councilman Dale Basham has said, Lord, we pray for those that are uh going to be working with the children uh as they go back to school. We even pray for our children uh the facilitators, the teachers, um everyone that is in involved with the school semester. Lord, we pray um for the safety of our children and peace in our streets. Well, we pray that that as this work is being done today, God, that that you will be glorified um and that you will be pleased and that uh not only you will be pleased but people in our community are pleased, oh God, in the name of Jesus, we pray. We thank you and we love you. Amen.

Amen. Thank you. That prayer is rendered by Minister Lydia Randolph of the Church of the Living God. Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Councilman Green. Did you have something you'd like to

Thank you, President Mesa. We would like to from the common council, we would like to thank all of the high school bands in East Central Indiana for their participation in track show throughout the summer. Uh they had the main event that took place at the Indiana State Fair on Friday, August the 1st. Uh do want to say that we had some very good showing uh from those inside Delaware County. Um Ken Daleville was a combination band, marching band. They received an 18th overall, but what was very impressive was their first place uh reward from class A. They received the visual caption, the general effect caption, and percussion caption. So, they did fantastic. Very proud of them. Uh, we had two from Delaware County that were in the sweet 16. If you're not aware of that, they take all the bands throughout the state of Indiana that march on track show and the top 16 get to come back in the evening after the morning show. They come back in the evening and they're able to all participate once again in hopes to win the title. Uh Yorktown class 2A received a 14th place overall finish. Uh they were their point spread was very tight. They were 275 from the 13th position. They did very well. So we're proud of Yorktown as well. Uh my of course my central class 3A uh they received in the daytime program the captions for music for visual and they tied general effect with Anderson Highland Anderson marching

highlanders um the evening program which that then put them into the sweet 16 in the evening program. Muny Central unfortunately got second place. If you heard that, uh, their score was just below that of Anderson. They lost by887

point. That was it. That was so close. The competition was very strong. We're very thankful for all of those that participated uh throughout the city and also those in the county schools. And we want to uh give a shout out and appreciation for Dan Sager, the director, director John Clark, director Tom Christ, and also the guard director Rhonda Reynolds. So we appreciate all that they did. So like for us to give them a round of applause. They're not here, but we appreciate that. Thanks, President Mason.

Okay. Okay. This month's citizens recognition of the month will be presented by councilman council person Roseli.

Thank you. I apologize. Good evening, mayor, fellow council members, and residents of Muny. It is my great honor to present the city of Muny citizen of the month for August for to a man whose actions quietly inspired an entire community, whose work uplifted one of the most visible stretches of our city and whose humility defines the spirit of true service, Mr. Jeremy Coons. Mr. Coons is a proud father of three children. He is a lifetime Muny resident and a 20 plus years small business owner. Mr. Kun, could you come down here as I read this to you, please?

And I want to say this to you. Uh, as most people know, a while back, Jeremy began cleaning up along the west stretch of the White River. He didn't have a contract. He wasn't asked. There was no reward waiting at the end. He simply saw something that needed to be done and did it. With determination, borrowed tools, recycled paint, and the occasional help of a few other caring residents, Jeremy made a significant and lasting impact, making the area safer, cleaner, and more enjoyable for everyone. In his own words, over the course of few months, with the help of some other people along the way, we made a significant positive impact, making it safer and more enjoyable for everyone. This wasn't just a trash pickup here or a quick sweep there. Jeremy covered up graffiti, removed litter, cleared pathways, and even maintained bridges and rest areas. He his dedication became a quiet routine, something neighbors came to expect and appreciate. He turned a forgotten stretch of land into a car for public space. But over time, Jeremy faced the kind of discouragement many volunteers know too well, seeing his hard work undone by others, feeling like the problem was too big to fix alone. And so with a heavy heart, he chose to step away, he explained. He said this, "A few weeks ago, I ended my efforts due to lack of time to do it and some frustrations of people coming along and messing up what I had already done when I was doing it just to make it better for everyone without expecting anything from anyone for doing it. I deleted all the posts and all the

pictures and just decided to be done with it completely, leaving behind only the impact we made, hoping that it stays that way. And for the most part, it has these were his own words. That right there is what makes Jeremy's work so powerful. He didn't do it for attention. He didn't do it for the recognition. He did it because he cares about money and about our shared spaces and about what it means to take action instead of waiting for someone else. And though he may have stepped away, the impact stayed and so did the gratitude of the many people who had witnessed and benefited from his work. Earlier this past couple weeks. Jeremy shared that we reached out to let him know to let him know he had been selected as a citizen of the month and he responded with characteristic humility writing again these are Jeremy's word words I've been I've had so many people thank me over the last several months and city council reached out to me today to tell me I've been selected as citizen of the month for August I put a lot of effort into the cleanup. So even though something like that may seem small to some, it means the world to me. And Jeremy, it means the world to us. You remind us of what pos what's what's all possible when one person decides to stop complaining and start doing. You inspired others to step in and do their part. And in doing so, you set a living example of civic pride, personal

responsibility, and quiet leadership. You also remind us that while recognition may not be your goal, appreciation still matters. So tonight, on behalf of the city council, the mayor, and the people of Muny, we say thank you. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for leading by example. Thank you for proving that even small acts when done with love and consistency create big change. And as you said yourself, those who helped me along the way are just as deserving of it as I am. On behalf of them and I, thank you my well on behalf of my we thank you Jeremy Coons. Congratulation on being named citizen of the month for the month of August 2025. [Laughter] Uh, I just want to say thank you everybody for the support. Jason, thank you for everything that you did to help. Um you have seen firsthand the the improvements down there and the improvements that are still happening with the new murals that are going in. And for the most part uh things have stayed pretty clean to my surprise. Um aside of a few things that are that mean a given. So um I appreciate everybody and thank you Thank you, Jeremy, for your selflessness and dedication to what you do.

Roll call. Here, here. Macintosh. Yes. Green here. Powell here. Garrett here. Goian here. Dishman present. Mason here. All present. Okay. At this time I entertain a motion for approval of the minutes of uh July meeting. So move. Second. Okay. Motion's been made by Mr. Green, seconded by Councilman Powell. All in favor? I I oppose.

Well, we need to do a roll call vote. Okay. Voice vote. No name. Okay. Appointments to boards and commissions. Okay. There any? Mr. President, did we need to appoint a council person to the community um the community um um center that we appointed that we passed last month? Do we need to do that now or is that something that we will do later?

We need to do that now. Okay. Um that advisory committee is probably going to be made up of uh presidents of the association. I I think we have a council appointment on that board too as well though, right? That's what I think. So when that comes up, we will we will need to make an account a council appointment to that. Yep. Thank you. I said corrected. Right. There was one other somebody left that we needed to fill. Cemetery wasn't. No, we filled out. Yeah.

The one you sent the email out on last month. We did. We did. And you made your uh new appointment to the ethics commission. There you go. Okay. Seeing there's no appointments to boards and commissions. Are there any committee reports?

That's Councilman Macintosh. The land and traffic committee. Uh we had a land and traffic committee on uh July the 23rd. The meeting was very informative. Uh Mr. Ralph Privet and I and among others were able to get the right information that we needed while uh in the process of getting our different situations resolved. On behalf of the committee, we would like to thank uh Jason Detti of the sanitation department explaining the codes that they are to enforce. We would like to thank the building commissioners, Richard Rawlings, for his explanation on the codes of enforcement. And last, but far from least, we'd like to thank police chief Sloan, along with Darren Clark, code enforcement officer for the police department. You all did a fine job. We really appreciated it and uh we all came away with great answers and understanding of things we didn't even know. So, I as William McIntyre, chairperson of the land and traffic committee, submit my report. Mr.

President, thank you. Um, I've had calls in the Granville Park uh edition over that land and traffic thing and the code enforcement and the police has been out here tagging cars and stuff. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Mr. President. Yes, council.

Uh, finance committee somewhat. This the finance committee report. Um, tomorrow is the DLG budget workshop meeting and uh, Councilman Basham and I will be attending um, to go over some of those details and find out totals for miscellaneous revenues. Um, hopefully find out what we're going to be receiving in property taxes. So, we should be further down the road on on being having all the things we need as far as uh, budget season. So, okay.

Any more reports? Okay, moving on. Ordinances previously introduced. Ordinance 22-25. Ordinance 22-25, an ordinance to amend the City of Muny comprehensive zoning ordinance from the one I mean R1 resident zone to the R5 residence zone on premises located at 2700 block North Benton Road, Muny, Indiana 47304. Okay. I entertain a motion to adopt. So move. I'll second.

Okay. Motion's been made by council person Selie. Seconded by council person Gilliam. Roll call. We have any discussion? We want you can do public comment. Vote questions. Yes. Any anybody here to speak on that? If I may, Mr. President, as I mentioned last month, um I represented Mr. Dhy uh before the uh plan commission. This is just simply a request to move from the uh R1 residence zone to the R5 so that a multif family structure can be built. It received a favorable recommendation from the plan commission of 9 to zero. Thank you. Okay. Is

there anyone else needing to speak on that?

Okay. Roll call. Basham. Yes. Min. Yes. Sie. Yes. Green. Yes. Powell. Yes. Fishman. Yes. Garrett. Yes. Go. Yes. Mason. Yes. Nine. Yes. Okay. Ordinance number 23-25.

Ordinance 23-25. an ordinance to amend the city of Muny comprehensive zoning ordinance from the R-5 resident zone to the BV variety business zone on premises located at 2611 and 2619 West Ethel Avenue VAC alley and 700 blocks Ma Manning Avenue Muny Indiana 47304. Okay. This ordinance seeks to reszone those locations residents zone to the business variety zone to match the zoning of adjacent properties

that are all used for the commercial purposes to speak. The applicant intends to combine the parcels into a single parcel for commercial commercial purposes. I move that we introduce this. Okay. Motion's been made by council. I'm sorry. Adopt this. Sorry. Second. Sorry. Go ahead. Motion made by council person Gilliam that we adopt. Seconded by council person Selie. [Music] Roll call. Public. I keep getting ahead of myself.

Good evening council. My name is David KS attorney with Dennis in April 324 West Jackson. Here to represent Bob Huddleston. Uh Bob's gone through a process now to vacate that alley over the few months before we entered into this process. We went to the planning commission also receiving a favorable recommendation of 90 requesting that we reszone this property from the R5 residents own the bride business like you stated it's just to kind of combine those properties so that they're all part of the Tulson plaza. He had taken down the houses and they're just fairground at this point. So question that reszoning. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak on that property? Okay, the motion has been made and seconded. Roll call. Garrett, yes. Dishman, yes.

Selby, yes. Green, yes. Powell, yes. McIntyre, yes. Yes. Yes. Mason, yes. Yes.

Okay. Ordinance number 24-25. Ordinance 24-25, an ordinance of approval to amend the text text of the city of Muny comprehensive zoning ordinance regarding lot width, lot coverage, setbacks, and minimum floor area in the rural R-1, R-2, and R-3 resident zones. and regarding accessory dwelling use in their R-4 residence zone. Hey, that's one thing he said 4-25. This ordinance seeks to make several changes to the development standards of the comprehensive zoning code.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we adopt ordinance 24-25. I second it. Okay. Motion's been made by Council Person Pal, seconded by Councilman Basham. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Good evening. Kylen Swackmer, uh, director of the plan commission. I do have some packets for you guys. I don't know if I if that's okay if I bring those up or if somebody

Thank you. Thank you. Pass them down if you want. Sure.

So, the proposed amendment before you to the city of Muny comprehensive zoning ordinance addresses some of the city's current needs related to housing development. These were developed and written by a committee compo comp comprised of Mayor Ryenower, Commissioner Brand, Jim Lowe, who is the retired associate vi vice president for facilities planning and management at Ball State, and myself. The goal is to modernize some of the requirements in the zoning ordinance to fit the current needs of the city. Although the start to the process of a complete ordinance update is a high priority and anticipated to begin in the next few months, this will be a long process and these changes before you help address a right now problem. The current zoning ordinance was implemented in 1973 and in response to the current demand and need for quality housing, the committee proposes ordinance 25 24, excuse me, 24-25. We feel the proposed changes will help address the need for current housing by increasing opportunities for development, the need to use vacant land, and address the physical decline of existing homes. They align more with current planning practices. They support the priority to strengthen housing conditions and options outlined in the together DM. They will help attract new development. Additionally, this amendment is tailored to the city of Muny. Muny has many lots that were platted and/or created before the ordinance was put into place in 1973 um that are 40t by 120 ft. 40 feet wide lots are typical within the city limits. The city of Muny is unique and our ordinance reflects needs to reflect our area. Did do some research on several other communities. This data is forformational

purposes only. This offers examples of trends current planning practices and successful ordinance updates rather than direct comparisons. So, forformational purposes only, um you do have some information on Southbend. Um you have some information on Fort Wayne, Anderson, Cooko, and Richmond. Um Fort Wayne and South Bend are ones that I I focused a lot on. Um Fort Wayne recently redid theirs in 2020. 2021, they did receive an award, the Richard A. Richard H. Dryhus Formbbased Code Award. The mayor of South Bend said that the new code encourages the reuse of historic and other existing spaces and the creation of new multifamily housing. A key to ensuring that all of our residents, regardless of race or income, can remain in our city. Since the new streamlined zoning ordinance took effect at the beginning of 2020, the city has seen an increase in completed projects and with considerably fewer variance requests. I did receive an inquiry as to um if any of these amendments addressed or were prompted by the intent to allow tiny homes. I just wanted to address that. The allowance of tiny homes is not addressed um nor intended to be addressed by these amendments. Tiny homes are typically 100 to 400 square ft and the proposed amendment here still has a minimum requirement of 600 square ft. Also, the current requirement that a dwelling have a minimum dimension of 24 feet is not being proposed to be changed. Um, this prevents a single wide, which is typically 12 ft, or a tiny home, which is typically 8 and 1/2 by 20 or 30 ft. Any home with a dimension under 25 ft, would still require that a variance be sought. Um, the board of zoning appeals hears

variance cases. These are cases where regulation of the ordinance is not going to be or cannot be met based on the qualities of a specific property. By our definition, a variance is a permit which the board may grant in circumst certain circumstances enabling a property owner the use of his property in a way which is in conflict with the literal provisions of the zoning ordinance. This process includes an application, a two-scale map including um several bullet points of things needed to be in that map A through H. So eight um a deed, stamped envelopes for surrounding property owners, a posted sign, an initial filing fee, plus an additional fee per variance, and presentation of the case at a public BCA hearing. This process can be certain um this process can be in c certain circumstances viewed as an obstacle to development by pro prospective developers. These changes could help alleviate some of this burden off of the citizens, developers and staff. So I also provided you with the summary of the proposed changes and they are just to the R1, R2 and R3. Um lot width the perspective change is going from 100 80 and 60 to 40 in each respective R1 R2 R3 lot area going from 12,000 9,000 7500 to 4,800 in each R1 R2 R3 front set back going from 30 30 and 25 to 20 and all side set back going from 10 8 and six to 5t in all corner lot side setback going from 25

and 20 to staying or going to 20 and 20 in the first two and staying at 20 in our three a rear setback change going from 30 25 and 25 respectively to 15 um floor area changing from 860, 760, 720 to 600 and um removing the lot coverage requirement completely. Um as I said, building dimensions are not um the 24x 24 is not being proposed to be changed at all. Um so I provided you with that information, provided you with some information on some of the other communities that we looked at. Um I did provide an email from Jim Low. He's unable to be here this evening. He spoke at the first um when the um ordinance was introduced, but he did send you and provide you with an email for this evening. Um he was unable to be here.

Thank you. You're welcome. Are there any other comments? Anyone have any questions? Mr. Mason Mason, I have a question I'd like to ask. Do you foresee this to be an increase in our tax base by being able to do this and will it stimulate growth?

Yes, I think if we are able to have more buildable lots um obviously that can allow developers and local local contractors and developers to work on those um and then that will provide more housing, more people come in, pay taxes on those properties and those houses. So, um, versus those properties sitting vacant and or with, um, homes, you know, waiting to be demolished or unbuildable lots. Um, yes, I do believe it would increase the tax revenue. Okay. Thank you. Question. Yes.

Um, Kylen, um, I noticed that like the setbacks and everything seem very standard throughout, you know, compared to everyone. Um, I just had a question though about the lot areas. like you set them all the same and I see a lot of these have different is there I mean what what made you decide to do that? All the other ones kind of like have the drop down in R1 through R3. Yeah, since we did all the lot widths the same um and it wasn't a a tiered thing, we decided to make that lot area. Okay. Um the same as well. Okay. Okay. Any other questions?

Yes. Yes. Okay. I've never done this before. What's your name?

Okay. Tiffany Ford. So, with these proposed changes, you want to be able to have smaller lots than what you know is standard right now, and you want developers to be able to build on those, but are those homes going to be able to be bought by people of lower incomes? Like, are you wanting to change the lot sizes for developers so they can earn a butt ton of money selling these houses or are you wanting to do it to help people because they can't afford to buy a house? I mean,

I can I can address that. Um, so basically, by changing this, it will allow more B more lots to be buildable. Um, by getting houses on those lots, it will allow the residents that are not looking for 5 acres of land in a, you know, $200, $250,000 home. It will allow them to have these smaller homes on these smaller lots. Um, so I believe these will be geared more towards people um looking for a um lower cost of a home.

Okay. And to add to that to go off, Tiffany, that is when you look at your floor area and you look at your setbacks and all that. So your floor area goes from usually an R1 to an R3, which really covers about what you're going to build in the city. So if you were going to buy a home or rent a home, you would rent one that's 860 floor area. Now you're going to rent one that's 600. So that's going to save money all around and be able to have more housing, which is affordable housing with the drop of the floor plans, the setbacks, the floor area, all that to allow more affordable and more homes in me and Mr. Green's district, the south side of town specifically to be able to have newer homes, nicer homes, maybe smaller twobedrooms. That's fine. I I grew up in a onebedroom. I shared a bedroom with my sister until we were old enough to not share a bedroom. So, but that is really going to help the value of the rent and if you want to buy drop down to be affordable for those areas.

Understand? No, you're good. No, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. That's understandable. But what are going to be the guidelines that these developers have to follow in order to ensure a 600 ft home? Of course, like if you have children, that's not a lot of room. However, it should go on the cheaper end, but what we've seen,

homelessness is horrible in this county. we want to do something about it. But what we've seen is private landlords, corporate landlords, all of these people are raising rent, ridiculous prices, refusing to fix things. So even though it's a smaller square footage, like you can what, like a 600 square foot apartment downtown is like $1,700 a month. So the square footage doesn't matter if you have the greedy developers that are going to charge you out the rear for that home. So that's what my concern is is because I work with the homeless population. I I think every most everybody is one miss paycheck away from being in that spot.

So are we going to have like rent caps on them if if this is approved and it's a 600 square foot home? Are you gonna say you can't charge more than $700 a month for this home? I can tell you this where we're at. I can tell you if you're renting right now and you have a problem with nothing being fixed, that's an unsafe walk through to the building commissioner's office. You need to call them. They need to walk through. They need to tag. There is due process, which I don't think we explain good enough with that. But you grew up on the south side of town as well as I do, and you know that they don't follow that.

And I I also I did I still and I'll die there. And I also was a building inspector which also we don't that it there's a a state mandate we have to follow with those. You have to give them due process whether we think it's a short time or a long time. We got to give it to them. And I can tell you all nine of us up here will are not up here for people coming in and over raising rent and anything like that. So whatever we can do when we can do it, we will make sure that it's affordable. Well, that's just what I wanted to know cuz Oh, you like I said it worries me. And you did public speaking fine. So, no, I'm shaking. No, you did. Just wait till my next comment. And no,

Cameron, there's nothing that can guarantee rents like Mr. Garrett's saying, is there? No. Our office, the the city of of Monty comprehensive zoning ordinance just addresses these issues along with many many others. This is just setting the setbacks and the parameters of the property. This is just defining what can be a buildable lot, what size can be a buildable lot, and the setback. I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah, President Mesa, may I'd like to make a comment on this. Uh, not only is this opening up for new building for developers, but this opens up the opportunity for people of low income to purchase a lot and build their own home

and they can have a smaller home on that lot and they own that.

This opens up the door for many people to have more opportunities than they've had before. And this is one of the good things that comes about by this. You could take a lot, you could build two homes on it. You could have one for yourself and one that you could rent out. It doesn't have to be a developer that comes in to do that. And the finish in a home is normally based on a square footage basis. The the developer comes in and he'll price that homes by square foot. But if you do things yourself and you get your permits and you're following the code, you can build a home a lot cheaper yourself than having someone come in to build it. And the building commissioner's office is one resource that you can go to to help get these things started. They'll help you with these things to make sure they do inspections to make sure everything is built properly. They won't allow them to put up shacks. They won't allow them to do things that are improper. So, we have an opportunity here for, as Mr. Garrett mentioned, for his area and my area for people to go into home ownership. And we'd really love to see that happen. Give people the opportunity and the pride that they would have in their own home. And it would be a benefit to the citizens of the city of Muny. It would be a benefit to the city as far as the tax base being increased as well. I hope that helps.

Macintosh, I understand your plight. Um, when I ride around and look at the city and I see a lot of new homes or or apartment, whatever they're building now, uh, with all the manufacturing going on, um, and to your point, council, um, there's no way to guarantee the rent or what have you.

But my thing is, they're still building and people can't afford them. I'm just going to be honest with you and that's all I'm hearing from my constituents. And so, uh, that's the issue I have. Uh, I'm all for beautifying and infrastructuring the city, but uh, people need to be able to afford these homes. And we don't even bring in the jobs or haven't brought in the jobs that can help people even afford homes. So, I'm not knocking it. It's just that I'm I'm just being real with her, too. I understand her fight. Yeah. Thank And if you have a smaller lot, a smaller lot, you're building a smaller home. Smaller lot, smaller home, smaller price tag, right? So, yeah.

Um, the other thing that this addresses is changing the accessory dwelling, which you mentioned the two homes on. This changes that. It's currently requires a variance in the R4. It's the only um one it requires a variance. So, this changes it to where an accessory dwelling is a permitted use and not a special use. Any other questions? Question. No question. Roll call. Garrett, yes. Yes. Go. Yes. Powell. Yes. Selfie. Yes. Macintosh. No.

Green. Yes. Vash. Yes. Mason. Yes.

Eight. A ordinance number 25-25. Ordinance 25-25, an ordinance amending chapter 35, section 22 of the myy city ordinance entitled emergency medical service fees and collection. Okay. This ordinance seeks to amend the EMS fees and provisions related to the collection of EMS fees in response to House Bill 1385 that was adopted in 2024 and took effect January 1st, 2025. Chief Ber,

before we before we make a motion point of order to adopt a point of order, sir, um could you uh councelor Gibson address the amendment to the ordinance that we've received? Yeah, let's and give us advice as to how to proceed with our motions. Okay. Um, I think you can start with a motion to adopt and then if you want to amend thereafter, make a motion to amend. Okay. And then you would have another vote to motion to adopt as amended. Um, but before we begin discussion, I'd start with the motion to Okay. Mr. President, I' I'd make a motion that we adopt 2525.

I'll second that. Okay. Motion motion made by Councilman Basham, seconded by Council Fen Selie. Roll call. Keep getting ahead of myself. Chief.

All right. Um, if I can, I want to begin with a clarifying statement. Um, last month while we were speaking, I made a statement that I had had a conversation with council persons Powell and Gullion after they had a recent visit to a fire station. Um, and I said that through our conversation that kind of sparked, you know, us looking and moving forward to this. By no means did I want to insinuate that that these two council persons asked us to raise this billing ordinance. So, I definitely want to clarify that there, you know, um, you know, publicly. So, thank you. Thank you for your conversations. It was about lift assists at assisted living facilities.

Yes. and that's what it was, but it kind of sparked our conversations in house about our billing ordinance. So, I wanted to clarify that. So, um obviously you did not um you had some questions last month. Um and some of them I think were addressed here in the amendment. One of the things that was asked was about the the decision for write- offs and it does say the chief or his design already in this as I went back through there that was already there. Um, you asked what this would do as far as citywide. Well, this because it only truly affects right now out of network and out of contract private insurance carriers, that's about 2% of our total call volume. So, increasing the rate up, if if we received every single bit from the 2%, now we're not going to get it, but there's co-pays and deductibles applied in there. It would be about $252,000 in additional revenue annually. And we believe realistically we're probably looking in the around 150 range. And obviously as we had time with this, we would know more. But because of the way it works with our negotiations, how those prices are set, um obviously and I looked up the numbers, 53% of our transports are Medicare um and 30% are Medicaid. Those are negotiated, you know, through the CMS and regardless of what we bill, they only pay what they pay. Period. And same thing with our Anthem and our our contract providers. They have set fees. Anthem actually currently pays under the CMS rates for Indiana. Um so I hope that answers that for you.

Mr. President, I'll start. Yes, I'll start. Um so this will cover or these increases will go to insured residents. it if you look it goes across the board but we did have and I don't know if we need to look at the amendment or not but we did have discounted rate for self-pay people and self-pay equals just had it up here it's 5% 5% of our um services that we provide go to self-pay and again I just want to clarify that you can do that you can negotiate two different costs for two different

we absolutely can in fact I reached out to our billing company to ask him questions about um treat no transport report and also those write offs and um you absolutely can. I actually have a whole response here from them that deal with both of these. So, all right. Um I wanted to continue real quick. Uh so this covers insured people. For instance, uh when I was on the Affordable Care Act, it would have it would have covered me. Correct. Correct. So my deductible for the Affordable Care Act was $9,785 a year. So, you're increasing these fees and I would be responsible for the 400% that you've increased these fees. Is that correct?

If it applies to your deductible, then yeah, it would apply to your deductible. I believe I'd have to contact our billing company to verify, but the way we're set up now is with the insurance as though we don't collect on uh those co-pays and deductibles. Okay. And so, again, we go to co-pays and and co- insurance. Um, a lot of plans have an 8020. And so under the current the current fees, um let's just say basic life support outside of the city limits right now the 20% would be $127.40, but with your increased fees, our residents would be paying $320.

Yeah, potentially. Yes, correct. It is. Okay. Um so so that is going to cause some financial hardship at a time when we have a lot of other financial hardship coming in from state senate bill one. It can and there are but we do have a financial hardship clause in here apply as well. And I wanted to and one more question then I'll I'll um release. Uh so you said that the conversation with um council person Golian and I sparked this. I didn't say well it didn't sparked this. that kind of led us to bring up the the discussion again. That is correct. Okay. So, House Bill 1385 was adopted in March of 2024.

Mhm. Um, we annexed all those parcels, all those lots in February of 2025. Sure. Did you have conversation before January 2025 about increasing fees? We had conversations after this passed last year. Correct. We started working on some of these before after adop after the House Bill 1385 was was adopted was passed.

But before we went through the process of annexing pe uh four different parcel three different parcels of land, you had conversations with Mayor Rydenower about increasing the fees, but you did not disclose that to the people that you were annexing. Is that is that correct? An accurate statement? That's a fair statement. Yeah, we had discussed this when it originally came out and there was discussion whether we were going to proceed with this or whether we were not going to proceed with this. But to specifically say it was based on annexation, I didn't have that conversation.

I'm not saying it was based on annexation. I'm saying that we had members of the administration standing up where you're standing saying that it wouldn't increase taxes and no it's not. But there are residual costs that will be taken on by people who were annexed and they weren't given that information prior to. Is that accurate? That's a fair statement. Sure. Okay.

Yeah. Um the the thing is where they were before their rates had already increased because Delaware County did pass their billing ordinance which I have a copy of here. um they passed theirs in December and the rates that we have actually our mileage rating is lower but our billing rates are very close very similar like I said I have that with me here today uh they raised their mileage up to $35 a mile or we were asking to move ours to $30 a mile

would that I'm sorry may I ask one more I'm sorry go ahead council person go no that's right finish up would that increase 100% increase cover apply to every single vehicle you send out. So, would it apply to the fire truck, the ambulance, and the paramedic squad? We can only bill for loaded transport miles. So, we can only build in an ambulance when a patient is in there. And our average transport miles is 2.2 miles per transport. Okay. As of the first six months of this year. Thank you, Councilman. Go.

Um, okay. So, I know we're looking at the possibility of amending something here with we had the rates listed here, the new rates. Um, and then we kind of talked about the possibility of instead of having to change these rates every year anytime the Medicaid ad um Medicare numbers change to maybe set it how what how the state law was was set basically 400 not to exceed 400% of the CMS rate basically. Yep. Um, so these numbers that you originally provided us, are those at that 400%.

Well, I did I pulled up all the rates and did the math today. So at that what I would have to do if it passed council, I would have to present actually the billing company with an actual rate schedule for each type. And that's so if the I don't want to get this wrong as she told us the office of the inspector general comes in to audit the billing company and the department for billing. they have a specific rate. So currently CMS for BLS is 40636 and 400% of that would be 162544 which would be where that could not exceed that for a BLS call. ALS1 uh is $4.8256 and 400% of that would be $1,93024 and then ALS2 is $698.44. So that would actually be $2793.76 for an ALS2 transport. Now that ALS2 transports, we had 71 of those in the first 6 months of this year. We don't see very many of them. Um it requires you to do multiple um ALS procedures, meds, things like that. So defibrillation innovation. So it does a little bit. Like I said, when these were originally done, these were rounded. So that's why it was a 16. that one if we did 400% the BLS would actually go up $2544. Um but when you look at the ALS1 and ALS2 services those would actually go down just a little bit.

Yeah. Okay. And then the treat no transport would have to have its own and um treat no transport as well is covered by most insuranceances. It is not covered by Medicare but it is covered by Medicaid. Okay. So those are services that are allowed. Mr. President Mason. Yes. Okay. Um Chief, to go back to uh Council Person um Powell, let me Is this a true statement? The people that were annexed are still paying less with this amendment, right? If we adopt this than what they would have with the county.

It It's very close to the same with the exception. It's close. So it's nothing like something that's like outlandish or they're going to surprise to them. Yeah, correct. The BLS rate currently in Delaware County is slightly under what the 400% would be. Okay. But the ALS1 and ALS2 is slightly over what the actual mathematical figure for the for the CMS rate. So when you say slightly, what's slightly? Like $30. Okay. 30 40. Thank you. President. Okay. Any other questions? Council person Gillian.

Okay. So, if if we So, you're saying that we can or cannot set the 400 after your You can set you could set the 400, but I would still have to do the math and submit that billing chart to Medill with what those specific numbers were. Okay. Which are really less than what's here except for the one slightly over BLS, slightly under the 2 ALS. But that takes the liability from them and then puts that liability back on me to make sure that it's true. And that's what that is. And that's why when I asked them about specific figures as we talked about, um, they gave me the information to figure it out myself, but they would not figure it for me for the same reason. They didn't want me, they don't want to tell us we're going to make $300,000 and we make 30.

So, I mean, you know, and I understand that and I appreciate that. But, you know, at the end of the day, in all reality, this is your ordinance. I'm asking you, you know, you know, to look at these things. some changes were made, but it's your ordinance. I'm just trying to prevent, you know, present some information for you so you can make a decision on how you'd like to proceed. President, sorry, I've got another. All right. Um, so, um, on E on here that we're talking about how there would be a reduced cost for the services or the deemed self-pay,

correct? Um, and I think originally it was saying 60%, but I think um some of the the amendment um the possible amendment that um the council for the uh for the council and the city were talking about would change that a little bit just because of the state law. Is that correct? Yeah. Well, with talking with Med Bill um this afternoon after we got this back, uh technically the the self-pay the maximum amount allowable by law would be the entire thing, which would be a ride off,

but at the So, they would prefer us to have a number that they that that it is built at. That's what they would prefer. So, if not, they're going to bill it the whole rate and then they'll come back and then we'll have to try to then they'll we'll negotiate technically with with the people after the fact. Okay. Well, um I'd like to ask our attorney too. So, Dan, uh Mr. Gibson, what's what what is the reason for that wording being changed from 60% to

It's a pretty complicated process on determining what is allowable for a self-paid discount taking in various types of payers. I talked with Allan Wisley today and just similar to I think what Chief Burford suggested in setting the percentage it was just simply allowing it to be the maximum amount set by law and then putting the onus on the billing company and the administration to kind of follow that so we're not constantly coming back um to council to make that change. But if they need a specific percentage then I think we need to reassess whether that amendment will be made or not. Okay. Thank you. That's I I hadn't heard that until right now that they wanted a exact percentage

and that was a late afternoon conversation that I had after I received the proposed amendment. Okay. So, Mr. Okay. Council person Salie. Thank you. So, councelor, are you suggesting that we don't need to make an amendment to this tonight? If we vote, we can just vote as it's presented. Correct. with respect that's only with respect to E subsection E I mean there there was a proposed amendment to subsection B um

yeah 60% as I said it's a pretty complicated process I believe Mr. wisely got that information from the billing company that I think 60% is perhaps an appropriate number. So I think that's probably okay and then we can come back with an amendment after the fact if if it turns out to be uh not not appropriate. Okay. If I can speak to that with speaking with Medill today who bills for um over 70 EMS providers in the state. Yeah, that's a pretty standard number for a self-pay and that does mirror identically with what Delaware County did put into their EMS billing ordinances. Okay, that's good. Thank you, Mr. President. Yes,

I'd like to ask a question. Now, you do have and you reserve the right uh for those that are in a hardship case that you at your discretion are able to lower the cost or forgive that completely.

Yes. Senate says the chief or his designate may at their discretion um extend to the patient services available up to and including bill cancellation or write off. One of the things through the research once again with Medville, their recommendation is on these hardships um cases is to work with the hospital, the patients you transport, they have specific documentation and paperwork and most of the time that is the best way to go about you know figuring out the hardship cases. steer them there and that way it can take care of both of their um medical bills you know that were required due to their emergency situation at the same time. Uh so obviously what we have to do though to be legal it must be fair and equitable to everybody that you consider. So to have that we would absolutely in house have to have a policy that is that is very specific and equal for everybody that applies.

Thank you Mr. President. So when you're talking about you're so you're saying that that hardship you would only do that for people who have already been declared that by the hospital or we wouldn't have to med Bill just suggested that we work that way so it was fair. So if somebody approaches us and really what it comes down to, you'll have people who have potentially have insurance that's covering their medical, you know, but they're trying to write off their ambulance and then that technically if they wrote all that off would be fraudulent against say Medicare and Medicaid.

So if we work directly with the hospital and say, "Okay, well apply for your hardships. How are you covering your medical bills at the hospital?" you know, and they and it's a there's a little bit of a process with the hospital that if we have something like that in place for us, I said their recommendation was just talk to the hospital and and and get with them because that's what most of their customers who do this do, if you will. So, it's definitely something we'll have to have a specific guideline, you know, that that allows for that. Any other questions? All right. Hey, we have a

Cameron Grubs. Uh, got a couple of things for you, council. Uh, appreciate you. Um, this in itself I I have a few concerns with because you have what what appears to be we've got a maximum threshold that we can raise the amount to and that's what we're taking it up to and unfortunately through whatever reasons like the the information was not I was not able to find it in the packets or anything online to support the reason like I don't know if uh people are getting paid $200 91% more than they were four years ago or if fuel costs are 291% more than what they were four years ago or we bought new ambulances or anything like that. And I absolutely want to make sure that this is clear that I want our first responders to be paid and taken care of. This is not about keeping money from them, but I have a concern about raising the costs for the public. And it is 291% of what it was four years ago. And we also have to consider the second and third levels of this. What happens when we're charging all of that? The insurance companies have to pay that, right? Because they're going to raise their rates in order to cover that. So even though I might not feel it or you might not feel it

in a in an emergency situation, you're going to feel it. People are going to feel it in their insurance co-ay or insurance payments at work. It's going to raise the cost of it. It's going to be essentially an additional tax. It's not a direct tax, but it is essentially a raised cost that we have to be considerate of. Um now I personally believe that health care especially in emergency situations is a right

to be taken to the hospital and I fully believe that our EMS services should be funded well and we should not be trying to make a system self sustainable or even profitable you know by by doing this just because we can because that's what the state legislature allows. Um, I I would ask that possibly going ahead or at least just maybe tableabling it for a bit to to share some information because I feel like the public is unaware of how this is going to impact them. There's not there was no, like I said, outside of the ordinance, there was no information in the packet. Um, you know, we had zoning ordinances come through and they've got affidavit and they've got all kinds of documentation to go through why this ordinance should go through. And then this one comes through and it's going to affect everybody. even if it's just 2% you know people that live or that have something happen out of district is going to affect their costs that I think the pe public should be aware of like where these numbers are coming from and are we just trying to get it to meet those or are we doing more than we should um I I I would also ask on that last point that you had as far as we we don't have a protocol and they talk any Chief Gford tal talked about an in-house protocol. I think it would be beneficial to have something set in place that is there beforehand before passing this so that people know even if it were just like a hey if you are 30% of poverty or whatever like that that you would qualify for this something a basic standard that would let people know that they can they can apply for hardship or anything like that. I think that would be a good place rather than leaving it up to post discretionary ideas. So,

good point. I appreciate y'all. Thank you. Thank you,

Wayne Scafe. I had a couple questions. Um, pretend like us in audience never heard this before. So, all of y'all are familiar with this and y'all saying some stuff that at least I'm not familiar with. So, I have three questions. Um, what's the purpose of the raise or the increase? Um, I think Councilman Green, you answered, well, you asked one of my questions. Uh, what exactly is the hardship clause and who decides whether it's approved or denied? And I think the chief answered some of that, but I want more clarification. So before y'all answer those three questions, I want y'all to consider this. Remember, Congress just passed this big, beautiful bill, and we don't know who's going to get kicked off Medicaid and Medicare. So if y'all vote on this increase, some of those people that are covered now might not be covered in a year, year and a half. So just consider that. But please answer those three questions. What's the purpose of the increase? uh what exactly is the hardship clause and who approves or denies the hardship. Thank you.

Thank you, Chief Beruit. I thought he was Jason.

Well, one thing I I believe if you look back at the existing ordinance now, it actually has the same ability for the chief to write off. And I can say the three years that I have been in the chief in the chief's office between being deputy chief and chief, I've not had a single case come through. So, you know, I mean, it is there, but it's something that was put in the initial billing ordinance in 2019. Um, you talk about costs and stuff. Well, in 2019, the ambulances that we now buy, which are not luxury ambulances, were $120,000. They're $260 now with no equipment, nothing on them whatsoever. You know, the cost of a cot, just the cot that goes in the back of an ambulance now is $29,000.

The loader that goes with it is $37,000. The powers to to put patients in and out. So, the costs of these things have really grown. We set our rates and they were a fixed rate. So, and that was, you know, 2019. They were fixed precoid. And so, yes, it has become much more expensive. Our supplies have gone through the roof since 2019. So there is some benefit like I said and but when you look at the fact that it was really when they passed that house bill it was it was to allow the billing but also made it so when they build at the rates you could not receive um anything that was not covered by the insurance company from the patients at that rate. So when that came out of course the billing companies all said hey man you really need to take a look at this. Everybody else in the state's doing it. I'm not saying we should all jump off a bridge if they do, but it was the right time for us to take a look at this, you know, as we proceeded. So, yeah, I agree. We need to have something in here. There should have been something in here that spelled out how we were going to look at writing off when this was passed originally in 2019 and it wasn't. And then, you know, since we came in, we're looking at a lot of things like that within the administration right now and how to make sure that what we do is fair and equitable to every member of the community. But like I said, 98% of the people in this community will see zero change in their billing with this. So, I mean, when you look at really in the scheme of things, that's why I said it's really your ordinance. So, you know, you guys decide what you want to do and obviously the fire department will thank you and and that's how we will proceed. So, I do want to thank you, Council Scalian. I want to thank you for emailing me your questions and allowing me to do a little bit of research. I am not an expert. That's why I asked last month if you had questions to please email them to me and we would discuss them in a public forum.

I asked for that and I appreciate that. Thank you very much and I appreciate Mr. Gibson for working us with us also. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Question.

You come on up.

Hi, Jason Chap. I'm president of local 348. I just wanted to, you know, again, I said this last month when we introduced this, you know, and, you know, my local been talking about this for several years, you know, in the sense before this house bill because for two reasons. Uh, we in when we in 2019 when we started this EMS game, we, you know, we we took the 2014 Delaware County ordinance and copied and pasted it and made it ours. I mean, identical. you I mean you know so we basically our current rates are 2014 rates because we copied the 2019 ordinance you know in 2019 their their ordinance was 5 years old when we copied and pasted it and made it ours you know um and so obviously we've got 10y old rates you know the doctor's office anyone else is going to keep 10y old rates you know uh like chief said everything goes up higher you know and and and costs increase yet we have basically what is effectively 10y old rates And because we have the write off for the self-insured, you know, for self-pays and and the ability to do that, which we've always had, and most of them do get written off because they don't get paid whether the chief actually meets with that person and writes their bill off

after 6 months, it's just going to be written off. No contact, you know. You know, so no one's getting sued in the history of my EMS.

We're not paying EMS bill, you know. uh and most of that gets written off the you know the the no payers you know so again it's not going to affect even that portion of the population because most of that popular course portion of the population they ain't paying anyway you know uh Mr. Dr. Grubs, my friend Cameron, you know, when he spoke to the right, my guys on the streets, we've never said you have insurance to someone in a homeless camp or anywhere, you know, we take them to the hospital. That stuff's figured out afterwards. You know, I mean, we've never, you know, denied patient care to any person in the world, nor would we even think to. So yes, we treat it as a right for every person in the city of Muny. Uh anybody in response, you know, 911 that that stuff, you know, the costs and the the insurance, you know, really what this is about is capturing the big business, you know, the the big insurance with the little small amount of people that have the big insurance, capturing the full amount we can from those big insuranceances. You know, obviously Anthem has a contract with the state and they already pay lower than what they they should. But the other ones, you know, uh you know, the people that come in here from B, you know, the Ball State student that has parent on their parents insurance, you know, that has the other insuranceances capturing the full amount. Right now, we just leave it on the table. You know, everybody else, including our county,

has passed almost an identical ordinance. They passed this in December 2024, their ordinance, you know, that that took effect January 5th 1st. And we worked with them when you know you know and we talked to them about their ordinance and our ordinance when you know it just took us for some reason six months to get here. Um and they passed theirs like I said already. So we're not even you know we're not even you know oh we're charging a lot more than the county now. No we're charging what everybody else is charging right now. We're giving everybody a 10-year old discount you know and and when I say everybody talking about big insurance you know uh for the most part. So obviously 1348 in supportive of the amendment and this bill.

Sure. Um, so I I I I appreciate that you're doing write- offs for people who don't have insurance and you and people who are self-paying. And my concern is for that middle class, the working class who have insurance but maybe underinsured or the increases that they'll see from out of pocket expenses or co-pays will will be significant um for their homes and and you know, House uh Indiana House Bill, Mr. Grubs had a point. Indiana House Bill 1385 was not supported by the Indiana Chamber of Commerce for that very reason. They feared that insurance costs for everyone would increase as as different uh municipalities began raising rates. And and I understand that other departments have this, but but just because we can doesn't necessarily mean we should when it will put undue financial burden on our residents. And that's my concern. My concern is is not people who will have no problem paying these co-pays or people who will have this written off. it's my kid who will have to pay these high fees because they are insured but they have high deductibles and things like that and and and my neighbor and the veteran who called me who said that they were logged as having insurance at the hospital but the VA doesn't pay for almost 6 months so they were turned over to collections these are comments and things that I've gotten since this was introduced and so you know my concern is my residents who will be caught in that gray area in the middle.

Yeah. And and I don't think just because we can we should. No. I mean, you know, I liked a lot, you know, when Mike Pence was in the the state house and he wouldn't take pork bell spending because it was his Yeah. Just because the money everybody else does, but he shouldn't. I understand that logic. You know, uh, you know, as everybody else captures the money around us because obviously the state has Medicaid, Medicare pools and somebody's going to take the money. We don't if we don't. I understand your argument, sir. And then when the uh I just want to make another you know hopefully hospital doesn't take all their deductible anyone you know I mean like eat up their deductible because hopefully when we take them to the hospital they get discharged with a something you know a scare not a heart attack because if most people take to the hospital the hospital's going to bust their deductible before we ever get there and because they they bill way quicker than we do.

Yes. So most of the time those middle class people when they go there the hospital's going to take them up before we ever get there when it comes to deductibles. Thanks guys. And one of the things too, you know, you talked about your insurance and stuff. Your your rate that you pay is set by what your insurance carrier is. So if your build your build at the negotiated rate if you're an in network anyway. So like with your case and you talk about well am I going to have to pay because I haven't met my deductible. Yours is not going to change with this because if that isn't in network. So if you're part of the of the marketplace, those things are all negotiated in. So, in all reality, changing this doesn't change that unless it changes it for everybody in there. Okay.

So, you know, I I can't say there's not ever a potential of a change there, but that would be a negotiated by your insurance carrier. Thank you. Yes. Could you repeat what you just said? I'm trying to process what you just said. I said when Medbill bills you for your transport,

what they bill you is at the negotiated rate if your if your insurance is in network or your Medicare, Medicaid, those things. So being able for us to bill at 400% doesn't mean that you were going to get that bill. If you're in network, if you're a contract provider, if you're Medicare, Medicaid, those rates are negotiated and set. It doesn't matter what technically what we set here. This really captures those out of networks that the state really provided that 400% for, but also allowed the write off on the backside so that those people didn't get hit with these unexpected bills when they came in. Thank you, thank you, Macintosh.

Uh Jason, I appreciate your quick response to my call the other day in that in that emergency situation. I really appreciate that. I just wanted to make sure I told you. Thank you. Any other questions? Any other comments? I I would like to make a motion. I I believe that we do have a lot of still questions about this. I feel like again, we don't know how insurance is going to be affected with, you know, all of the changes federally and statewide. Um, I do like the idea of having something in place,

but you know, so that if we do, you know, pass something like this that we know exactly what the steps are, you know, for people who really can't pay these bills because we're going to have them. We're in my we know this. We already have, you know, a lot of issues and and I want to make sure that we're not making it more difficult for people. So, I would suggest um maybe sending this to a committee. Not sure what that would be or tableabling it. Um I what do we have a committee that would work well for this? Um I'm trying to think. Public safety. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll make that motion then that we send this to to the public safety committee and maybe work toward getting some kind of um I'll second that. Yeah. In terms of action, table and send to, right? Yeah. Yes. Table for your purposes. Okay. Should we table first? We have to table. It can be a combined Yeah. table and send to your committee to the public. It can be combined. It could be. Okay. Sure. Okay. Then it doesn't have to be. I I would rather it not be. Okay. Okay. Combined. Okay. Then do you want to do one or the other? Yeah. One more. I would like to No, I don't.

So, you've made a motion to table and I second it. Okay. Okay. Motion's been made and seconded to table to table table to allow the council to receive information from Chief Berford regarding how this will affect our residents. Very well said. Well said. All in favor? Do we do a voice vote? Roll call. Macintosh. Yes. Selby, no. Golian, yes. Basham, no. Dishman, no. Powell, yes. Green, no. Garrett, no.

Mason, yes. Four yeses, five. I call question on the original ordinance. The original ordinance. Okay. With no amendments. Okay. Question's been called. Was the original ordinance? The original ordinance. Okay. Macintosh. No. Basham. Yes. Green. Yes. Fishman. Yes. Garrett. Yes. Selby. Yes. Go. No.

Powell. No. Mason. No.

Thank you. Okay. No new ordinances, resolutions, new ordinances. There's nothing else anyone has. Any other questions? Okay, we're going to go to public comment at this time. Cameron Grubs.

Hi again, council. Cameron Grubs. Um, I just wanted to I had a few asks. Um, one like with this, you know, I've noticed in the agendas and stuff. one that you don't really list the boards and stuff that come up. Would that be something that you could start doing is is listing what board so that people can reach out to their council members to say like, "Hey, I'd like to be on this board or or whatever, anything like that." Um, also, is there anything that can be done to kind of I know there's been times where there's late submissions and so is that something that can be introduced to like, hey, we're going to put things required documentation for the meeting two weeks ahead of time, something like that if there's not already something Um,

wait.

And then, uh, you know, and and just making sure that all the packets have everything. That would be great. Uh, also there's some events coming up. Uh, just wanted to shout out, uh, there's always First Thursday coming up. There's a $2 tour on the Ball State campus. Mary's Miles 5K to benefit the Recovery Cafe. That's on August 23rd. Both of those are on August 23rd. Miniaturista Farmers Market uh, is on Saturdays. Um, I'd also really like to point out I' I'd really like to give council members the appreciation those that have stayed with their convictions, you know, good job. I appreciate that you guys have done that. Um, that you you've stuck it out and have not changed anything. Those of you that have done that, the to the five that just voted that down, this is not the first time I've seen it. What is the hard part about waiting? I don't understand that. There's been time that the opioids, you all voted against that. Y'all voted against waiting. I don't understand that. What is the problem with waiting with getting more information? Does more information provide a worse argument? I mean I mean if anybody can answer me that I'd appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you Cameron. M I just wanted uh one comment to add to your announcement of events um for the $2 tour of the village. I will be in the dunk tank at 3:30 that day. So anybody who's uns if you're happy with votes I've cast out give some money. It's going to charity. I'll be there for 30 minutes. Hopefully it will be a warm day. And thank you for bringing that up. Tiffany Ford. Oh my god.

Hello. Um, I want a building for a homeless shelter. The old Justice Department was sold to a developer for luxury condos for $100. Didn't give it a $600,000 grant. Sorry, I can't do public speaking. But this is something really important. So they got it for $100. It would have been free to give to the community and we could have broke grants to make it into a homeless shelter. Who needs luxury condos? It sure the hell ain't any regular residents of Muny. I grew up on the south side of town. We had a three-month rule. That's how long it took for an eviction to go through when I was in high school.

I wore secondhand clothes before they were popular. Most of the people on the south side of town have been in that situation. We have homeless people who can't get jobs because they have to wait for open hours at the hub to get a shower. They the hub doesn't have enough clothing to provide for them. Like we have people that work constantly to try to help. We have Christian ministries food pantry and clothing pantry. We have the soup kitchen which is an amazing resource. We need a homeless shelter. Garfield Elementary School has sat empty for how many years? It probably needs a butt ton of updates, but give it to me. I will write grants. I don't like writing them. They're tedious and they're boring, but I will write them. I got a masters in human services for some dumb reason, but it taught me how to write grants. Give me something. give me something to help the people that need it the most in this community. I will do whatever it takes. I've already talked to Christian Ministries. I've already talked to Christina at the soup kitchen. I've talked to Cameron, the domestic violence detective, who God, I want to be here when I'm old, even though I'm already old. I We all want to work together. We want something that is sustainable. We can't have somebody coming to the hub or to the crisis center and only being able to offer them a tent because there's nowhere else to go. The why is full. The mission is full. And let's be honest, a lot of us aren't religious. And when you go someplace like the mission, that is pushed on you. Is their program good? Yes, they provide housing, but housing should be provided with no strings. Garfield, like I said, might need a

bottle of updates, but if you look at the floor plan of Garfield, women, families, one side, only one side of that building has a second story, gym, clothing, and food pantry. Already has a commercial kitchen. You can feed people. Other side, which there is a lock that goes down cuz I went to that school, could be a men's shelter. You could even have clinics in there for people. The library could turn be turned into a huge clinic. There's already bathrooms, boys and girls, in every hallway. One of those bath sets of bathrooms could be turned into showers. We can help this community, but nobody We spent a bunch of money on a crisis center that has nobody coming through the door.

I know. I worked there. But we can't spend the money. Like it wouldn't be anything for you to sign over a building. If you don't want to sign it to me personally, sign it over to Christian ministries or the soup kitchen or an organization. But this is what we need and I will come to every city council meeting and I will shake until we get a building for a homeless shelter. Okay. Thank you. Thank you,

Courtney Marsh. Good evening, council. Good evening.

I hope everyone's doing well after this long meeting tonight. Um, I am here today just to tell you guys about an event that's happening. Um, we are coming to a point in the Southside neighborhood area where we're going to be holding our annual Mark Kenman Family Fun Night. We're very excited about it. If you've been before, it's a fun time. If you haven't been, I don't know why not. Um, there's food, there's fun, there's games, there's people, there's there's fun. You should come. Um, I brought some flyers tonight to hand out to you guys so you guys will know. We're going to create an event on our Facebook page here in the coming days. We ask that you all share it if you have Facebook pages. If you don't have Facebook pages or don't man your Facebook, because some people don't. Um, word of mouth is amazing.

I have learned that in my many years of being able to come up here and speak in front of this podium that people hear you a lot more than they see you most times. Um, so if you say it loud enough or enough, then uh most of the time they'll hear you. So, not only is this an invitation to our city council members, it's an invitation to our neighbors in this outside neighborhood um and their families. So, if you have family that live in a different neighborhood, we're not shunning you. We're inviting you and your family to come out. We're looking for some new ideas this year. So, if you guys know of anyone that might have a resource table, opportunities, games, um just fun things for the kids to be able to do, the families to be able to come out and kind of have a good night, it'll be right after school gets started back. They'll kind of get into that root of school and how that looks. And it's just kind of a good time for a little bit of a break. They can come out and have a good time. We usually have our splash pad going and and ready to go. So, make sure to bring your towels. Um, and if you'd like to have a chair, we'd like for you to uh bring your own just because we don't have as many as many benches as we hope to have bodies. Um, so we would encourage that. Um, but again, that event's going to be on Tuesday, August the 26th. It starts at 6 p.m., but if you're willing to play or if you're willing to come out and set up a resource table, we're going to invite you there from 5:00 to 5:30. That way, you can get your table set up, all your information, your DAM if you bring that, um, those types of things. But the event will be from 6:00 to 8:00. Cleanup does start at 8:00. The parks department has given us the amazing opportunity to utilize that green space and we would love to be able to do that uh with the greatest intentions of course and giving it back to them clean. So, we're going to ask that everybody be able to at least help clean up or be out of the park by 8:00 p.m. Um on the flyers, it does ask for you to bring your own chair. So, I'm not just saying that. It is printed. Um and we are asking that if you send your minors, please be with them. We are not babysitters and I can say that here on the live.

We will not be accommodating unaccompanied minors. So if they do come and they are not some form of chaperone. Um unfortunately we will provide them with the basic fun and then we'll ask them to leave. So parents please come with your children. It is a family fun night. It's not a kid fun night. It is not an adult fun night. So we intend for everyone to come with their families and have a great time. Um I'm going to leave everybody with a flyer. again, please share it. If you can just pass it to the next person, that'd be great. Uh if you can share it um any way social media wise, that'd be great. Also, take a look at our Facebook page um because we'll have our event coming out here soon. So, um please keep an eye on that. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Janette Presley, am I saying that? Yeah. Thank you, Hi guys. Presley, 1419 West 8th Street.

Um, I just wanted to let you guys know that uh we partnered with Muny Folks Collective. I don't know if you guys seen that to do the drive for the kids laundry. So, our kids are going back to school. Kids stink, you know, their bedding, their clothing, the whole nine yards. So, the Sarah was doing the laundry for the homeless folks. And so I pitched it to her to do it for the kids. And so uh since I am a part of Aendelle um and Thomas Park Aendelle Neighborhood Association and on the board, I was able to get that money donated which was $200 and we did that drive today. And so I left um that uh at 6:30 and we still had tons of people coming in with their kids clothes. So that was at the GI laundromat there. And so we had a big turnout, lots of people bringing their kids clothes and bedding in. So that was wonderful. That was great. So then, so I've kind of flip-flopped. You know, I'm always with the homeless, doing stuff with the homeless, but over the summer working at the common market and also cooking at the um uh Aendelle church, um I've ran into a lot of kids. a lot of kids that just run the streets and that just, you know, and me being u a foster parent and having five adoptive children, kids are part of my heart, you know. So, um the other thing that I kind of want to put in your ear is, you know, I do live on the south side. We have a lot of kids that don't have running water. It's not against the law not to have running water, but I think that we need to figure out something so these kids can get showers. We have some stinky kids in our neighborhood, you know. Let's just face the facts. And you guys have teach, you guys are teachers, so you know what it is to have a stinky

kid, you know. So, I tried to talk with the norm to because they have that portable shower. I can't get anywhere with him to let him let us use that to go around to the elementary schools. He doesn't want no part of that. He doesn't want no part of also letting the kids come there and shower. And neither does the Muny Missions hub. they don't want to. So, we really need to come up with something so these little kids can get a shower and get a bath because we have people coming down to Neil's house and getting you all know Neil and getting water out of the garden hose from the church so that they can even just wash their kids' face. You know, we're giving out lots of wet ones through the program at the Ross Center for that too. So, we need to kind of think about that. I don't know what you guys can do. I don't know what the school can do. Go ahead, Miss Sylvie, please.

May I? Yes. Every school, elementary, middle, and high school has have family navigators that are paid for by the Ball Brothers Foundation. And that's what I would recommend that you reach out to every school's family navigator. Tell her about the issues. We all know there are locker rooms and showers and stuff in schools. So, I'm sure they're not going to open it up for everyone, but if you talk one-on-one with the family navigator, they will accommodate stuff like that. I do believe so. Okay. Well, I don't I don't know. I don't know what we could do for these kids, but we have so many little kids that need bathe.

Yes. If you would like I would I will send you this week the name for each building, school building, the name and phone number for the family navigator if you would like to start there. That's fine. And just to let you guys know that could you send that to all we're gonna we're going to um try to get some more donations to do more of the laundry. Okay,

for the kids. So, if any of you guys know of anybody that would or companies that would donate for that, that would be great if you could let me know because I don't even know where to start with for that. But as a neighborhood association and the common market, we did cover the $200 for tonight. Uh, and that helped. But if we could keep these kids in clean clothes, Sarah said she would be more than willing to do it like once a month. Okay, great. So, that's all. You could also check with Deb Houston out of Southside. They have a real nice clothing bank. Now, I don't know whether that's just for Southside students or not. They have those north side and on the high school.

Yeah. And uh you know you might reach out reach out to them to you know for clothing or well we had a big turnout big turnout. Lots of people needed clean clothes for the kids to go back to school. So thank you guys. Thank you. Janette I wanted to ask you a question real quick. Um how can we get a hold of you for donations? Um 765. Oh, we don't know. You want to put that? Good in private. Yeah, private. Okay. I'm not talking about the council. I'm talking about me. I'm sorry. Not my phone number. I should have said me. I want to know how to get a hold of you for donations. So, I'm

Okay. I'll get with you. Not the council. Thank you. Oh, next person. Hammond because I can't read that first part. Apologize. I think it says Mark or what? I apologize. My name is Marian Hammond. I realized I should have printed instead of signing my name. Well, Hammond, I got Thank you. My name is Marian Hammond. I live on the south side of Muny. I've been born and raised in this city

for long enough now. I live in actually my grandmother's house on the south side. um recently just joined the association of the southside now that I find out we're officially a part of it. My biggest thing I come here today um I'm going to kind of go all over the place because I'm going to give you a little bit of background about me. I've was graduated Southside before they closed four year ROC cadet. I served in the community of Whitley with uh Mary Dles who was my mentor. Mhm. Um I am now currently um I work in construction. I'm also a volunteer firefighter and a first responder.

Um to get with you on waiting. Unfortunately, it is inevitable. I do say this because I work out in the county. It is inevitable of price changing and prices going up. The cost of vehicles and fleet maintenance and stuff like that has gone up. Is terrible. We do get called in occasionally. I will tell you I'm with Hamilton Township Chip Fire. Nice. So, we do get called in occasionally to assist the city at station 7. I am proud to say that I will probably be volunteer until my final days because

I'm not in it for the money. I love what I do. I love helping my community. The biggest thing here I get we have houses. We want to put houses in on the south side. What about businesses? We are losing businesses left and right. I just got done talking with the Dollar General in the Southway Plaza. They are leaving because of well the gentleman is not maintaining the structure. Um and they didn't want to renew their lease on that. And I don't blame them. We just lost Walgreens. the riches. What used to be a speedway long ago is gone. I don't know if there ever plans to change that. There is plenty and plenty of places that we need businesses to take over. The southside used to be great. I mean, it was always the southside this, the southside that. I'm thankful we got a Gilman's now. I don't have to go clear across town to get lumber supplies and home improvement supplies from Lowe's or Menards. I mean, whoever has the best deal, honestly. But you know how it is. We how we work around here.

And you know, they just recently paved my street, 27th Street between Madison and Walnut. Just recently got paved. I am thankful for that.

They did a damn good job. I like I said, like I told people when they were doing it, in my 31 years on this earth, I have never seen that road paved until now. And it is smooth and it is great. biggest thing, the only thing we're going to deal with is the golfers. They come out of that golf course, come flying down that road to try to get over to Walnut and get out of town. I tell you what, I I'm more worried about the kids that are on either end of our street. You know, I just wish there were things that we could look at, you know, one community in my opinion. It's not just southside, north side, east side, west side. It's everybody.

Yeah. I've, like I said, I've worked in Whitley as a community servant there for years. I still go back on occasion when I get called. Would I go back now? Yes. I might work full-time. I might have fire department stuff, but I'd still love to serve my community. So, thanks for your time. Thank you. Thanks for your service. Anything else? If not, I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move. Motion's made by council Macintosh. Second. Seconded by council person Golia. All in favor?

I oppose. Meeting adjourned.