City Council - Regular Meeting

And I mean I appreciate it's okay this time. Yeah. Next time. Oh yeah. Yeah. I can. Okay. Yes. Is are these things on cuz last time there were Oh, we're on. Here you go. Pass them. Oh, you did. No, I didn't. I did. I did. I'd like to call this meeting to order. March 2nd, 2026 regular meeting for the Mudy Common Council. At this time, we'll stand for the pledge of allegiance. Please remove your hats. And Seth Rollings, would you lead us in the pledge, please?

To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Would you remain remain standing please and Mr. Macintosh will do the invocation. Let us pray. Gracious Father, we come to you today, Father God, asking and believing in you, Father God, that you will open up our hearts and minds today, Father God, for this meeting that's coming before us. I ask that you bless each and everyone that's here, Father God, and the homes they represent. We just want to be able to do the business of this city, Father God. And then we just thank you in advance. And it's Jesus name I pray. Amen. Amen.

First order of business is the citizen recognition. Uh unfortunately unable to do that this month. So uh we're going to put it off till next month and Sarah Goen will do that uh for the April meeting. So that brings us to the approval of minutes. from last month. Do I have a motion to accept the minutes? Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve the minutes of the February common council meeting. Second. Have a second. Lyn, did you get that? Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Opposed?

Motion passed. I would like to make uh a statement before we get into the appointments and boards of commissions. We would like to say a thank you to the Muny Fire Department and their honor guard for their former firefighters. It was very much appreciated by the Starks family. So, we want them to to know that uh they appreciate it very much. U also like to make a comment concerning the structure of the council meetings, the way that we have been doing things. We're going to change it again tonight going back to the old former format. Public comment will be at the end of the meeting. Three minutes will be given to each person. Uh do want you to know that Belinda has asked that the list that uh Ro has for those that will be speaking. Your name will be included into the uh minutes of the meeting at the end. So, I want you to know that we have one other thing I'd like to share because I know that some may not stay till the end and that is uh Muny Central, the color guard and the drum line. Uh I received this information from uh Dr. Reynolds. They will be performing uh their shows that they will perform for state competition. That will be in the Mussy Fieldhouse March 19th at 700 p.m. And that is open and it's free to the public.

So we want you to know that you have that opportunity to go and be a part of that. Moving on to roll call. Yes. Roll call. Mr. Dishman present. Miss present. Mr. Macintosh present. Mr. N present. M here. Mr. Garrett present. Miss here. Mr. B here. President Green

here. Appointments to boards and commissions. Um, we have the Beach Grove Cemetery that we have an ordinance before us tonight. So, we want that would be uh reducing their numbers. So, we will put that off until next month uh to help them out. So, that moves us then to committee reports and I believe is Miss Daniels here to bring a report on the opioid advisory committee.

Good evening. Uh, I'm Linda Daniel, 1305 North Elm. I'm the secretary of the opioid fund advisory committee and I appreciate the opportunity to come and give you an update on what we're doing. A little bit on my background. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. I've worked in the community for 40 years. I retired from Ball Hospital at the end of 23. Um, the last five years of my career there, I helped start the addiction treatment recovery center. Um the the committee has met three times and our next meeting is Thursday, March 5th. Our committee members include Abby Carpenter, she is the executive director of the Recovery Cafe. Eric Hoffman, prosecuting attorney for Delaware County, Ashley Hunter, IU Health Physician, Neil Ging, pastor, community activist, and he's also with the Muny Folk Collective. Corey Matters, who's with Open Door, he's a licensed clinical social worker. and also a licensed addiction counselor and Dwayne Wiggins who's a retired fire chief and first responder from uh Randolph County. I feel like we have a really good group. It's a working committee and we're so far we're off to a good start. So the first couple of meetings we discussed the importance of transparency of how we distribute the funds as well as responsible stewardship of the funds because these funds are available only because of the loss of of life. Uh it's it's also important to the committee that the funds make as much impact as possible and that we support local recovery efforts already in place. We've reviewed state guidelines for for the approved use of funds as well as the ethical principles of use published by John's Hopkins. Uh and these principles are used by most communities uh for guidelines to how to distribute the funds. And all of these guidelines are available to all committee members on a Google share drive. And we're also

working on how can we make our agenda and minutes available to the public. So we've compiled a list of treatment providers that offer medication assisted treatment as well as uh organizations that offer harm reduction and overdose reversal products. My has multiple agencies and organizations that don't necessarily provide clinical treatment, but they're very supportive of recovery. And those are the organizations that we would really like to focus on, the local ones that are focused on recovery. So, we are in the process of finalizing a form and a process by which we will distribute the funds uh which agencies can can submit proposals for funding. Uh and an effort though to expedite release of funds, uh we made the decision to recommend uh three specific agencies receive 25,000 this year and next year. And those three organizations are Big Time Barbell, the Serenity Club, and the Recovery Cafe.

And of course, we're looking at other organizations as well and thinking about similar amounts for those other organizations. And I'm willing to take any questions. Any questions from the council? None. No questions, Mr. President. Yes. Um, I'd just like to commend you for the work you're doing. It's a blue ribbon panel. We're so proud of you. Thank you for this report and look forward to more in the future. Thank you very much. Okay. I appreciate you guys starting with the fundings with organizations that are local

that were part of the journey of addiction and recovery and not concentrating on the bigger organizations that get funding from the government. So, Big Time Barbell does a great job with the one-on-one coaching and and the health aspect of it and so does the recovery cafe. And the third one you mentioned was the Serenity Club. Absolutely. So, you guys did a great job with that, starting from the ground up. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Yes. Um, would it be possible for us to be able to put a link to their minutes and and their agenda on our council page? Could we link that up with that? Look into it. Yeah.

Well, just to Yeah, if we could just maybe put a link to theirs or something, maybe we can look into it, but I'd like to talk to you about it. Yeah. Thank you. Anything else? Councilman. Any other committee reports at this time? I do want to mention uh committee that I'm a part of, Mr. Macintosh, uh community center is meeting tomorrow night, uh starting that off with Mayor Rydenower. So, I wanted everybody to know that it's still an ongoing process and it's uh exciting. This is going to happen. We want to see this take place. Uh do want to let you know, remind you when you come to the podium to speak, do not give your address. Just say that you're a citizen of my safe. Okay? We want to keep everyone as safe as possible. Okay. Yes, sir.

Could you please mention where the meeting is going to be for some of us who just want to hear what's going on? Um, the address of the meeting is um 1910 South Mock. Thank you. Okay. You're very welcome, Mr. President. Yes. Can you make sure the doors are unlocked tonight because they're locked again? I think. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Are they unlocked, Chief? Okay, I'm locked. Okay,

there are no ordinances previously introduced. Brings us to new ordinances. Ordinance 6-26. Ordinance 6-26. An ordinance of the city of Muny amending section 32.39 of the city of Muny Code of Ordinances prerequisites to actions on orman's resolution. I have a motion to introduce. So moved. Second, Mr. McDonald's. I think it works. Okay. Any public comment?

I did. Okay. I'm sorry. This is for 626. Mhm. Uh,

yep. So, my name is Seth Rollins. Um, I come in support of Ordinance 626. I mean, a lot of people, actually, everybody ran for office at the city level in 2023, mentioned a idea of bringing transparency to city government, no matter really what it was. Uh, part of this this this actually or the language of it is pretty much like the most basic thing that you could probably provide like basically saying that if you have an ordinance that you put your name on, you are the one who personally signs for it. Um, I just think it's a very basic thing and I mean that's why I I would support you guys not only introducing tonight but both introducing and getting it voted on tonight. I think it's a really easy really easy easy thing we can do for the community brings a lot of like accountability that in just a small way. This is a small win but it would mean a lot I think to a lot of people if this is something that was passed tonight. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you,

Christopher Bilbury. Um, we've been talking about this since September of last year. So, you guys should have zero question about this. We talked about it for two and a half hours last meeting, an hour and a half, something like that. There should be very little question that you guys have. If you guys I I'll be honest. If you have question at this point, it's it would be laughable and it would be ridiculous. It would be showing that you guys aren't doing your jobs. If you have questions at this point, you have heard from the citizens since September of last year that this is something that the citizens overwhelmingly want. No more gameplay, no more adding weird amendments because you could have all done that before tonight. So, doing that tonight will be seen as what it is, gameplay that you guys are trying. And it's it's strange like can you not look at me when I'm speaking to you? Do do you not like me that much that you just will not look at me? That's very strange. Anyways, I'll continue on. Um, just vote for this thing. What I would like for you to do is to unanimously speak to vote for it. Vote for it. Suspend the rules and pass this thing tonight. Get this thing passed tonight so we can be done with it. If you vote against this, whoever votes against this, it will be overwhelmingly speaking that you are against what your constituents want and you might as well just speak up and say, "Look, we do not want or care what you think." So, please vote for this, pass this, and let's get it over, suspend the rules, and let's be done with it tonight. Thank you. Hi, my name is Ellen Whitehead. I am a Mensy resident and my views do not represent those of my employer. I want to voice my strong support of ordinance

626. As I've stated during discussions of previous versions of this ordinance, I think this is a common sense change to the procedures for filing ordinance and a vote against this ordinance represents a vote against transparency and against the clear public position on this topic. In fact, in preparation for my comments today, I reviewed council meeting minutes and recordings across the past several months. I found a total of 38 separate in instances uh 41 including the three comments tonight in which uh your constituents voiced their support for this ordinance or spoke against making any substantive changes to it. And I know that council members have also received numerous emails and support. In contrast, I was not able to find a single time in which a member of the public spoke directly against this ordinance. Although I recognize that I am not privy to the content of all emails received by council members, the pattern of support seems clear. My hope is that all council members will demonstrate that they respect the opinions of their constituents by voting in support of ordinance 626. I especially want to emphasize that I hope the council votes in support of the ordinance as written. moving forward. As throughout all of the public conversations of this ordinance, I have not heard a single perspective from a constituent that would call for any substantive amendments. This issue is not a minor procedural matters. Instead, transparency is a core democratic principle. Voters care deeply about this and they will remember how their elected officials respond. I encourage the council to take their opinions of their constituents seriously. Thank you.

Thank you. Good evening to the council members. My name is Rita Faulner and I'm a Muny resident. I ask that the council members vote in favor of ordinance 626. There are many points to be made, but I'll just make three. Ordinance 626 will provide protect council members from having their names and signatures used without explicit knowledge and consent. Number two, ordinance 626 will ensure that the council agenda is not determined by others in our city government. Point three, Ordinance 626 will codify a practice that many residents consider reasonably that that many residents reasonably assume already exists. It's common sense as mentioned before. Please vote for ordinance 626. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, good evening. Alex Clubber, a Muny resident, and my views do not resent represent those of my employer. I'm here to also lend my support for ordinance 3-26. Um, many members of the public have spoken in support of this the goal of this ordinance over the last several months and uh that includes both Democrats and Republicans. I think it's a simple common sense and should be a bipartisan issue that I think you would be proud to support. Um, previously ordinance 3-26 was introduced unanimously and that's what I'm asking you to do tonight. I do think it would be um highly efficient to do as others have suggested to suspend the rules and pass it. Um,

but um, yep. And I'll just say um uh in the previous meeting I think there were several amendments made that muddied the waters and uh I think it'd be best to uh not amend this ordinance to pass it. Uh in its current form I think um there was no good that that came of that. Um and even through all that discussion no one really spoke in opposition to the central goal. So, I think um let's just keep it simple and uh let's not play politics. Let's listen to the public's wishes and uh let's introduce this and pass this ordinance. Thank you.

Good evening. Uh Chip Taylor, Muny resident, speak only on behalf myself. So, like these others, I would encourage the council to vote to introduce ordinance 626. Um, my understanding of the rules that require unanimous vote. Um, it's an extraordinary measure. I hope you'll do it for three reasons. Um, although this issue has been placed on the agenda three times for for introduction, discussed extensively, there hasn't been really a lot of discussion about the underlying issue. The second thing is um I believe the council members opposed this change in procedure overlooking a a short-term aspect of its benefits and I also the third thing I also think there are longer term aspects. So the first time this ordinance was on the agenda it failed on introduction. Most of the discussion centered around like sort of who did what when um you know the the resolution got got withdrawn um and then re you know that was withdrawn then refiled without the sponsor and council members knowledge. That's an important issue but I'm not sure um ordinance introduction is the best venue for the council to do that sort of factf finding. You have other uh you know capabilities. The second time it was on the agenda. Some others said it was introduced, but the discussion at adoption was kind of derailed by some perhaps well-meaning but seriously flawed amendments. Uh so I appreciate uh Counciloman Pal, I appreciate your determination to bring this forward a third time. I'll admit I'm not optimistic. Um my sense is that your Republican colleagues on the council have no appetite for casting a vote that would be construed as a rebuke to the mayor for his improper intrusion into council business earlier. Um, but I would say the Republican members, if you kind of broaden your perspective a little bit, I think you realize Miss Pal is possibly doing you a favor. Um, let me say this first. I don't think the mayor will do this again. Um, yeah, I don't know why he would want to have another blow up like this a second time.

As Mitch McConnell says, there's no education the second kick of a mule, right? Um, but I can't say that for sure. I'm neither a mind reader nor a fortune teller. I'll make this prediction with absolute confidence, though. If he were to do it again, he won't do it to one of the Democrats on the council because he knows they'll holler. If he were to do it again, he'll do it to one of the Republicans like he did last time. You deserve better than that, Councilman Basham. You deserved better than that. Um, but I don't think considering our current political environment is even the right way to look at it. There's a long-term issue at play. Collectively, the nine of you constitute, you know, the Muny Common Council, which is one of the two key, you know, political institutions that govern the city of Muny. Of course, the other key institution is the office of the mayor, right? And each each institution has its own roles to play in governance. You share power, okay? But they're separate powers. And you influence each other through a system of checks and balances and persuasion, not coercion. um your powers are separate and distinct. Okay? And this is actually described in state law. It's not just the opinion of one cranky retired political science professor, right? That provision may have been written by a cranky retired political science professor, but it's it's in there. Uh it has no teeth. It's more of a statement of principle. So, one of your jobs as a council is protect the integrity of your institution. Um what the mayor did violated that integrity. Let's not mince words about it. Okay? is wrong. Um, and if we know anything about the violation of norms, it's that once someone violates a norm, it makes it easier for someone else to violate it later. Okay? But when you meet that intrusion with kind of collective shrug like it doesn't matter or even worse, an invitation to the administration, offer them like a veto over what you're even allowed to discuss.

Yeah,

you're not protecting the institution. You need to protect the institution. That's why you need to protect this matter, this measure. need to pass this measure. It's it's not because of him necessarily. It's because of the next person that might try and do something like this. As I said, it's a common sense common sense change. So, I I encourage you to vote for it tonight. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Sarah Vitali. I'm a resident of Munie and the views that I express do not um reflect the views of my employer. I almost feel like I should just sit down because um Mr. Taylor just gave such an amazing

um reflections and I hope that he can maybe print those off and and give them to you so you could look at them later because he made so many he made so many good comments. I wanted to take notes and I really appreciated what he said about the integrity of the institution and the fact that you aren't the mayor that you that you get to be in charge of this space um this branch of government and and you can you have a legacy to protect and you have um a situation that you can set up to leave to to future um council people. Um, I think you should support Ordinance 6-26 because it's reasonable and it would promote our trust in you because that trust has been shaky. I do believe that you inserted a poison pill last time. It felt intentional to me, but like Mr. Taylor, I cannot read minds. Um, but it was upsetting to watch. Um, and it um it made the the city council meeting into something that we don't want these spaces to be. Um, but you can change your minds. You can change your minds. You can listen to us and listen to what I think are really solid arguments, not just our feelings or whims. And I want to thank you for changing your mind on the timing of public comment. Um, I appreciate it. I feel like you're listening to some feedback that you're getting. Um, we I imagine that it's difficult to be the president of the council. I imagine it's difficult to sit up there with your faces stoic and looking at us. um especially when we come at you with all sorts of different positions and feelings. Um but I think that that's you know I think that that's an honor that you get to do that as well. Um and I appreciate you taking that into um um into consideration and changing that. I imagine since today is the day that this ordinance is being introduced and not voted on unless you do take extraordinary measures to vote

on it tonight. I imagine then that it seems like you've changed that rule as well and are allowing public comment both at the day of introduction and the day of voting and I'm I'm very appreciative of that and I think that um yeah so many of us are so thank you very much.

Good evening. My name is Mary Moore and I speak on myself and I don't represent my employer, but I do think I represent a lot of the neighbors who have been here today when they talk about their support of this resolution. And I just want to reiterate there's a million reasons why that we have heard why we should support it and not very many reasons why we should not. In fact, I really haven't heard one yet. It will increase transparency. It will prevent undue influence and it will increase our confidence in you as a council. So, I agree with Seth and I urge you to suspend the rules and vote on it this evening. Um, and I think it will not just restore our faith in you, but I think it will also restore our faith in future councils. And that's a big part of what you should be doing here as well. So, thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Edjo. I know you guys knew I would be coming, right? Um, I would urge you to go ahead and put this ordinance through. Um, no one's really addressed and they kind of a little bit addressed it. Uh, the real elephant in the room is what's happened here is our trust in you has been shaken. It started with the party jumping that we had and the power on council changing. I don't know if we're supposed to notice that or it's supposed to be like when they put the other Darren in on bewitched and we were just supposed to go along with it. But um we noticed just so you know and you know that that destroys public trust and faith in the system when you show us that our vote doesn't matter and you go ahead and switch your parties and you switch everything. Okay? It changed everything. All right? If that's what we're here about and we're here about the the partisan crap you guys were serving up last meeting, right? The partisan stuff's got to stop. Soon as you got elected here, you serve the people you were elected to serve. That is your district. That if you're at large, that is the people. Rose sat up here and yelled at everybody in 24 and January saying, "You elected us to serve you when she was pushing the B agreement through. We are the ones you work for, not the mayor, not your party."

And the fact that we've been talking about this, like Christopher said, since September, it's it's just ridiculous. What else could we have accomplished by now if we weren't dealing with this or when we could speak? I'm shaking. I'm so furious with this. And to suggest that the citizens out here were somehow remiss and and we were wrong was just ridiculous. I've not sat up here and been flipped off by John Hampton. I've have seen another city council member censured for racist comments. Heck, last term there was more appointed members of your body than there was elected ones because they kept quitting. Yet, you have the right to sit there and tell us. I went back eight years. Never once did a citizen made a problem. The citizens don't make the big headlines in the newspaper like y'all do or the mayor does. Maybe you. But I appreciate you letting us have our our time back. I do and we were here to talk about that. But this ordinance is a no-brainer and we all know it's been partisan. The reason that you haven't passed it through and the time for that is done. I mean, I know you enjoy your seats, but there is an election coming up. You know that, right? And we want you to do what we want you to do. We've been asking you to do this for months now. Can you get it done for us? Vote it through tonight. Go ahead and put it up for vote tonight. Thank you. HELLO, city council. I'll keep it short because uh basically everything I wanted to say has already been said and I think there's a lot of amazing points. The people are coming here to make their voices heard and I think it's up to you guys. The ball's in your court to just listen to the people that you're supposed to represent. I think we all are in agreement about what is right. Just do the right thing. So,

we're just encouraging you to vote for, you know, 46-26. Uh, I'm Jackson Franklin. I'm a combat medic in the Army National Guard, but my views do not represent my employer. Uh, of course. Um, this proposal is simple and common sense. It strengthens the integrity of the legislative process by ensuring that ordinances and resolutions are submitted directly by the sponsoring council person either in person or through their official email with clear documentation attached at the time of filing. That's not red tape. That's just accountability. That's doing your jobs that we elected you to do. Requiring supportive documents upfront improves transparency for both council members and the public. It ensures everyone is reviewing the same information at the same time. It prevents confusion, protects procedural vulnerabilities, and makes the process more secure. Just as importantly, the provision prevent uh preventing reintroduction of defeated or ordinances without unanimous consent, respects the will of the council, and avoids unnecessary political gamesmanship. This ordinance doesn't give anyone more power. It protects the process, and when process is strong, the public trust is stronger. I encourage you all to vote yes on the introduction of ordinance 6-20 uh 26. Serve the people don't serve yourselves. Thank you.

Evening council Cameron Grubs uh citizen of my um I have one amendment suggest. No I don't like I get thrown out of here so quick. Um, so you know, Professor Taylor had had made such great points and everything and I think there were a lot of thoughts that came from everything that's transpired. And those of you that know me, that have seen me know I'm not um I would guess that the mayor is not going to say I'm a fan of his. So, but what I can do is offer that I can give the benefit of the doubt that I don't know that there was anything nefarious planned, that it was just potentially an accident, an assumption of communication and everything like that. And I think that things got a little bit out of hand. And so, I would ask, you know, we can step forward. This thing has everything that I'm all about, accountability and transparency. So, I think we can move forward. It's not about punishing anybody. It is about preventing this from happening again. And um I did want to offer a thank you President Green for this and then uh Councilwoman Powell for continuing to push this. So thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name's Kim Whitlock. Um I'm a citizens of Muny and I'm staying up past my bedtime tonight to talk to you. The fact that I have to come here on a cold winter night to ask my city council to be transparent with me is absolutely asinine ridiculous. Listen to how that sounds. You are voted in to represent the constituents of Muny who elected you. What are you planning to do up there that you don't want to be transparent with us? That's the question. And see this group gathered here tonight, it's a room full of people used to burning the candle at both ends. And if you do not do the right thing tonight by voting yes on this, we will all work hard to make sure you never sit up there again.

Good evening. Melinda Msinia, resident of Muny. I speak not uh the opinions of my employer. Everyone had said such amazing things here. I'll just amplify those and add two things. One is thank you for listening to our concerns about the rules. That's greatly appreciated. And I believe the interest of the city clerk was reflected in the revision of this and that is just amazing. So, thank you for that um addition and thank you all for being here. YEAH,

Wayne Scafe. I left the last meeting early last month and I'm glad I did. I end up watching it the next day. I probably watched it three or four times. And I have to say of all the city council meetings that I've been to or seen, that was by far the worst. Some of you I know, some of you I know of, but that meeting made you guys look incompetent. That was horrible. That was absolutely horrible. The problem I have with that meeting when this issue came up in November, the mayor stood here and answered all the questions. He wasn't even involved. Two people that were involved never said a word. Mr. Basham, you sat there and didn't give any kind of input and you were in the middle of all of this. But last month, you did more talking than everybody up there to muddy the waters on this issue than anybody. I didn't get it. When we needed your answers was in November. We didn't need all that nonsense last month. All these amendments and and you just took over the whole thing to just mess this whole thing up. And basically, you caused it and you messed the whole thing up. I really don't understand how some of this stuff works up here. I don't understand how some of you guys think. I don't know if you're just so partisan playing partisan politics so bad that you just say screw everybody else. Mr. Dishman, oh my god. during those debates, you did not

participate in anything, but the first time you spoke was to end the debate. That's amazing to me. I'm going to say that again. You did not participate in the debates, but you wanted to end the debate. So, would no could nobody else say anything? And I I I really don't get you guys. I I I really don't. This is by far the worst I've seen. So this ordinance right here, remember 2019 the mayor ran on transparency when I mean he says transparency so so many times at those caucuses those uh uh debates and and and meetings that I mean it should it should be still ringing in your ears. So when we it's time for us to deal with it, you guys want to do something else. This is all about transparency, nothing else. So tonight, no amendments. There should be no discussion. No amendments. And we also need to suspend the rules. Vote on this thing tonight. This been going on since, like Bill, we said, September. Let's get this mess over with. Suspend the rules. Let's vote on this thing tonight and end all this. Thank you. Um Audi Barber, citizen of my coming up here for quite a few years. We've seen a lot of new faces up here last few months over this ordinance. I think maybe you guys need to uh take into consideration the new faces you have seen

and realize that I speak for the citizens out there. I may not be the only one tonight. I may be the only one next month. But when you got people calling you say, "Hey, we need your help. Speak up for us." because they don't they don't have the courage or they don't have the you know whatever it takes to get up here and talk to you guys. But you've seen a lot of new faces up here. Uh we used all the amendments last month. No more amendments. Let's just vote on this thing. I'm the last person in line, I think. Let's just vote on this thing. Suspend the minutes. Vote on it again. And you don't have to face it no more.

We don't need no auto pin for you guys. You guys can all sign your own amendments. You can sign your own paperwork. And if you can't, I'll get you a paper that we can put an auto pen to and let you resign your office. So, just please do your job. Thank you, Mr. President. Yes, ma'am. Council.

Yes. Um, I wanted to address something that was said. Yes, this um ordinance 6-26 does reflect some of the the um input from the clerk's office in that the um ordinances will have all the graphs and documents when filed. Uh but I also wanted to um address something that Dr. Taylor and Mr. Franklin said and that is I would like to ask our attorney for a point of clarity. Um they both had mentioned the unanimous vote which when we first discussed this that was discussed but could you step to the to the mic and talk about

the fact do you feel that this requires unanimous vote or do you feel like ordinance 6-26 is different than ordinance 3-26 that was defeated? Yeah. So um a couple comments on that. um couple of the spectators in your right. The months ordinance does include a provision that that says a defeated ordinance has to um if it's brought back up within a calendar year, it has to be approved by unanimous consent. When I uh approve this as to form, it was not my opinion that this needed to have unanimous unanimous consent. That's because we're not comparing 326, right,

to 626. We're comparing 326 as amended to 626 and 326 as amended included the controller. So there's a substantive change there. I think it it it has a a big change on the legal effect of the amendment uh that was passed at the last meeting. And then there is also an additional requirement on the filer that was just brought up. And so I don't in my opinion I don't believe that this requires a unanimous consent. I think it goes to a simple majority and and that's why. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions for council? I just want to make one other question.

No, just a one other comment that um and in trying to compromise and collaborate. Last month, uh council person Salvi said she wished there were more dialogue. When I filed this, I reached out to all my colleagues and explained that I was filing it. I asked if there were concerns or or questions regarding uh ordinance 626 and I received none. So I I tried to to compromise and include everyone's suggestions and still keep the intent of the original 40-25. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you. Yep. Okay. We'll do roll call with roll call. Yes.

Introduction. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Dishman. Yes. Yes. Mr. Mason. Yes. Mr. Garrett. Yes. President Green. Yes.

Mr. President. Yes. In in listening to many of my constituents that are in the audience and and spoke, I would like to make a motion to suspend the rules and adopt 626 this evening. Second. Second. That was the second. Mr. Mason. Mr. Mason. Okay. Any other questions? Roll call. Mr. Garrett. Yes, Mr. D. Yes, yes, Mr. Mason. Yes, yes, Mr. Mintosh. Yes, Mr. Yes, Miss Yes,

President Green. Yes,

Moving on to Ordinance 7-26. Ordinance 7-26, an ordinance of the city of Muny amending chapter 93 of the city of myy code of ordinances. We have somebody here to speak on Beach Grove. Mr. Waters, we didn't move to it. Oh, I thought we did. No, we suspended the rules. I apologize. Just a second. We'll go back. Looks like we didn't talk. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's just a motion. Have a motion to adopt. So moved. Second ordinance 6-26. So moved.

Second. Okay. Roll call. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Dishman. Yes. Mr. Yes. Yes. Now moving to ordinance 7-26. Ordinance 7-26, an ordinance of the city of Muny, amending chapter 93 of the city of my code of ordinances. I have a motion to introduce.

Mr. President, I um make a motion that we introduce ordinance 7-26. I'll second. All those in favor I I think Troy here. Excuse me, Troy. Go ahead.

Troy Waters, superintendent of Beach Grove Cemetery. Uh, I hadn't actually physically seen the ordinance, so I don't know if I'm here to just answer questions or uh how we want to do it. I know we if I think move this ordinance is to reduce the number uh from seven to five that the board had requested. Okay, that's what I thought.

Yes. wasn't sure. Uh I think my opinion I think everything would run smoother. Uh meetings would run better and I kind of my thoughts are if the more more members you got the more members you got to have to have a quorum and we've been running on three to when Mr. Bastion was still in there we had four members and now we got three and the meetings go a lot lot faster. uh if someone's absent, you just got to have have a two there. So, you know, I think it'll work out a lot better with five and uh all all the way around. And in the p as far back as we can see, I mean, I think 1964 is last time I can see they had a four member board like the state code reads. I don't know. Nobody can determine what year it went to five and why it went to five. And it started been ran running like that. And then in 20 November 2021, it was introduced

by the city council president then to uh turned into a seven member board. And my thoughts, seven's way too many. And I think we can get business run business a lot better, faster, and uh get through things. I think five would be great. Okay. Thank you, Mr. President. May I ask and and Mr. Waters, isn't it also an ongoing issue that board members must be property owners? And when I say property, I mean, grave site, lot owners, uh, yeah,

state statute and city ordinance both states that you must be a lot owner. And I've recently been been told that that means it's you actually got to own the lot. Uh not paying on it. Yes. Okay. Oh man. Paid in full. Yes. Yes.

And in the past, you know, when I hired in there, they was letting people, you know, you pay your 10% down, open a purchase agreement and do that. But uh I would at the time I was told that's the way it was which really the only thing we got to do with it at the cemetery is do the purchase agreement with them. You know it's kind of between council and the board members you appoint but uh but I guess it actually states that it would be paid in full. Any other questions for council? I do.

Yes. Uh before I decide on that, could you tell me what are some of the responsibilities of your board members? Could because I'm trying to think if three people can handle it versus five versus what are the responsibilities if you want to be a board member.

Well, uh ordinance reads, you know, that they're in state state code both. If if you read up on them, it'll stay there. They're in charge of the budget control of the all the funding and this and that. Basically, the way it runs, uh, I'll just I'll stay on the budget. You I'll me and my office I'll prepare a budget, then I'll sit down with my office manager. We'll go over it, and then we'll take it to the board, and most I mean, most all the time, they they go with what we we think we need. we might do a little little changing. So, we do most of everything on there. Uh you know, when it comes to decision making, voting on different things. You I right now I'm in the process of uh working on some grants and uh

one of the board members has been she's been working working with me on it and you know, they spend some time coming in. There's not a lot of lot of time spent other than board meeting days, but times like this working on the grants and things, they'll come in, you know, sometimes come some of them will come in help clean headstones and this and that, but most everything is what we bring to them to the board meeting. And uh I mean if I got something in between then I'll email them, text them or call them and get the you know get the input and uh so it's basically approvals that's brought to the meeting you know and in input I should say not just approvals but given their input during the meetings. I have Mayor

Anyone else with a question for Okay, you have follow. Okay. So, I do know that you guys have some events like during Halloween and I know Mrs. Denise Kings runs that. Um, and then what if you needed to bring new programs to the cemetery? Like, um, do these do the board members are the ones who approve it and do they are they do they do the work the boots on the ground or do you need more people on the board to do that? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm trying to trying to figure out how to celebration answer this without so far uh

we do a lot of histo or a few historic programs. Yeah. And uh I usually plan them and sometimes we'll partner with the EB ball center. Okay. and uh they you know they'll schedule some have them have them there and uh we have had the board member at the the president historic society she's done one or two there but far as the board I mean we usually just schedule them and uh you just approve the dates and stuff like that. Yeah, I get I guess you'd say approve. We just I just talked to him about it and we've never had an issue with Okay. with having a meeting.

So, three people three people on the board. You're going to say they're going to handle all the other extra events right at the cemetery and you won't anymore. We actually handle basically handle that and then uh if they want to come in and help with it or whatever. Now, the historic tour in October. Yes. Uh that's mainly ran by the old west end, the niece and Brad King. Uh we do go in and stay in the office with them, help them uh and this and that, but that's probably the biggest event. Okay.

The other ones are just we'll have guest speakers come in. Uh Chris Fluke, everybody knows him. He's come in and done one and uh we try to try to get history of Okay. Muny and Delaware County. Keep it on that. And it's really nothing. Okay. Not a whole lot of planning. It's just Thank you. kind of set set a date and make sure everybody's okay with it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Now, your amendment is asking from seven to five members. Yes. And not three. Yeah. Three. I'm sorry. I'm just saying we got seven to five. We're down to three right now. They are down. But but the request is going making it seven to five.

Okay. Thanks for that clarification. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's it. Thank you, Mr. You're welcome. Water. Anything else? Nope. Anyone from the audience? Any questions? Okay. Roll call. Mr. Yes. Mr. D. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Moving on to resolutions. Resolution 3-26.

Resolution 3-26, a proposal by the students of the AP government class at Muny Central High School for a special resolution to install a pedestrian scramble light at the intersection of Myrtle Avenue and Walnut Street. and Walnut Street with yield to pedestrian signs for the installation of sidewalks on the west side of Walnut Street in front of my Central High School and for the removal of street parking in favor of a left turn lane into Central's parking lot at the intersection of Maples Street and Walnut Street.

Motion to introduce resolution three. I'm sorry. So moved. Second. Okay. Did you get that? Okay. Macintosh. Yeah. Okay. We ready? Yes, we're ready.

Hi, Julie Snider. Um, good evening. Uh, as you guys know, we try to do this every year. Um, first semester, my AP government class comes to some meetings to observe what what you guys do and we talk about it in class. Um, even though the class focuses on federal government, um, I really like for them to come and watch what you guys do on the local level. Um, similar to federal level, but I just think it pertains to them so much more. So, we've been doing this for a couple years. So, this semester, their role, their job was to create a resolution to try to pass here tonight. So, thank you uh rep or uh Councilwoman Gullian and Pal for coming and helping them because uh they gave them lots of guidance and on how to write it because that's probably the hardest part is trying to figure out how to how to word this. So, they did this on their own. Uh very little help from from me. So, um if you don't mind, they're going to repeat that part and then read the rest of the resolution. I think I'm going to have them introduce themselves first if you don't care and then they'll read through it. Okay. So, it's just introduce yourself. They're all seniors. So,

all right. Um, I am Damian Jones. As she said, we are all seniors of the um AP government class of Muny Central. Oh, I'm Sailor Derby. I'm Clayton Dick. My name is Dorian Freyer. I'm Lexi Dots. I am Alex Navaro Cortez. I am Chloe Miller. I'm Andrew Jet. I'm Arthur Kamargo. My name is Cohen Rivers. I'm Gabriel Novak. Haley Rollins.

Ricksby Christoffield,

Xavier Wallace. So um in this case our proposal is a proposal for a special resolution to install a pedestrian scramble light at the intersection of Myrtle and Walnut Street. The installment of crosswalks at the intersection of Merble Maple and Walnut um with yield to pedestrian signs. the installment of sidewalks to the west side of Walnut in front of Muny Central High School and the removal of street parking parking in that area in favor of a left turn lane into Muny Central's parking lot at the Maple and Walnut intersection. We're just going to read through our um proposal. So whereas the city of Muny values infrastructure, Muny has already supported changes to create a safer environment for the constituents of our community. Whereas these changes are highly valued around Muny. However, it is essential to our community if we continue to make my infrastructure safer and more accessible for all. Whereas of now, many students who walk to Muny Central for school have to cross an extremely busy intersection between Myrtle and Walnut, Maple Walnut, and Walnut and Columbus. Whereas these intersections are extremely busy, can be also very dangerous for any pedestrian or student walking across them, especially due to the already lack of sidewalk infrastructure placed there. Whereas one side of Walnut Street already has accessible sidewalks, the other side, the west side, doesn't have any sidewalks in front of the high school, there's only grassy partitions there. This lack of sidewalk encourages the students to walk in the road or in the bus lane, and it's also not accessible for disabled students. Whereas we already have a light with with walk buttons at the Columbus and Walnut Street intersection, the one by

the Y, it would be even safer with a Continental crosswalk was added with a yield for pedestrian sign pointing towards the crosswalk. Whereas at the intersection of Myrtle and Walnut Street, there is no light, crosswalk, or safe way for pedestrians to walk across the street. Whereas there are other schools who have implemented safer pedestrian crosswalks and it has left their communities feeling much safer.

My class has created a survey for my central students and found that 99.9% of people who responded felt unsafe and witness others get hit or witness reckless driving from others around the street of walnut. Whereas 72.1% of students noted in the AP class survey that they had to uh cross North Walnut Street to go to or from school.

Whereas a collective 82.6% 6% of students, parents or community members agree that Walnut Street is found to be dangerous or very dangerous to cross during the start and end of our school hours with it requiring lots of attention to do so. Whereas my central principal Chris Walker and assistant principal principal Justin Oliver reported to the AP government students that in the last two years, two students have been hit and a countless number of wrecks have happened. Whereas at least 75% of those who've taken the survey are in support of the scramble light across from central. Whereas transportation solutions and lighting states that pedestrian scramble lights have been shown to reduce pedestrian injuries by up to 38% and are an effective safety measure for busy campus hubs. Whereas Carlson Attorney's law firm describes that a Los Angeles Scrambleite was installed in 2015 and reduced crashes to zero. From an average of 13 per year before 2015 during the city's Vision Zero LA initiative, whereas statistics from a New York City study stated that pedestrian scrambleite crosswalks were found to dis decrease the amount of pedestrian injur injuries by 51%. compared to not using one at all.

Whereas Walnut Street currently has street parking in front of my central, it would significantly reduce the traffic backup on Walnut Street at the beginning and end of the school day to instead have a left turning lane into Central's parking lot. Whereas research from Texas&M Transportation Institute supports this claim by stating that left turning lanes reduce the risk of crashes by 44% by removing stopped vehicles from through traffic. Adding a left turning or adding a left turning lane also increases the roadway capacity by 25% and increases the efficiency of moving cars through the road. Whereas the greatest burden resulting from an inadequate response to addressing these traffic concerns would be the death and injury of students and community members outside the Muny Central High School building. Now therefore, let it be resolved that the students of the AP government class at Muny Central High School recommend that the city of Muny install pedestrian scramble light with continental crosswalks and an accessible pedestrian signal at the Myrtle and Walnut intersection directly in front of Muny Central High School. The students recommended the city of Muny paints continental crosswalks in the intersection of Columbus Street and Walnut and that the city of Muny or Muny Central will work to have sidewalks installed on the grassy partitions in front of the school to keep kids from walking in the street. They asked the city of Muny to paint continental crosswalks with yielded pedestrian signs at the intersection of Maple and Walnut. Finally, the students of Muny Central ask that the city of Muny will remove the street parking only in that section in front of Muny Central and add a left turning lane into Muny Central's parking lot um at the Maple and Walnut intersection so as to reduce traffic backup.

Um are there any immediate questions? Any questions from council? Yes. Um yes, thank you. Very impressive. Um I'm interested in the survey. Um could you tell me um how what kind of a survey was it? Um how many people took the survey and um those are very large percentages that you that you're quoted in the um resolution. I'm just interested in the the logistics of the survey.

Uh yes, let me please pull up my sheet on the survey. So the survey itself, it was put out on um Schooly. It is our service that all students of Muny Central view things like our little piece of information on. Um so pretty much all students of Muny Central most likely saw it and I'm trying to find

Okay, Arthur will be able to h Mhm. Mhm. Um and so I do not remember the exact number. Um I do know that we can attest that there are personal experiences from the people here, including especially myself, as to um repeatedly having to cross that intersection regularly. Uh Chris, he's answered the

I I created the survey. Um we had so far 91 responses from the general public. Mainly of uh most of them I'm pretty sure were students. Uh yes 88.9% of them were students uh 8.9% were community members and the rest which is about 2.2% were parents. So we had a lot of students uh give their opinions which are the people who cross the uh crossing mainly. Okay, good answer. Okay, Mr. M. Um I frequently go up and down Walnut and whether you had a survey or not, it to me it's obvious that something needs to be done.

Why it wasn't done in the beginning when the whole process was being done, I do not know. But we have a uh in this city and I've been here all my life. Uh we we always have to go back and then try to get it right. But yes, I'm I'm all for this. I'm

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Well, me myself, I have my personal vision of that. I always had to cross that little part. either I had to go back all the way uh walk maybe 200 feet, 100 feet to actually find that one light which for a little bit of time now it has not been working because of the construction around that area of the light um a little before on Walnut Street and the amount of times that when I had to cross that one part that we're talking specifically the amount of times that I almost got run over that it's very very difficult visibility from buses, uh, from cars. It's just and some people really go really fast over there. So, I I can say it's very dangerous.

It's it's it worries me. My brother also crosses that and I'm always afraid uh for him. Sometimes I hold his hand to help him. So, I try to take care of that. But it's Yes. I'm sorry. Go. I Mr. Macintosh. I think I believe I mean I I agree with you and I think it's the situation got worse when we combined the high schools together. So it's even you know I mean I think that's why things got even more and we never addressed it. You're right. I have a question for you and

I don't know anything about scramble lights so I'm not that person but are we going to be adding or did you think about we're going to be adding a scramble light that will accommodate different different disabilities like people who can't hear people who have difficulty seeing what are we just going to put a scramble light or did you guys think about that and what did you come up with what's the best solution I don't know So with the scramble light um we do specifically request things like audio signals which is really helpful for our visually impaired students in your resolution. Uh yes

there's something in the power too about it's called it's like a certain type of scrambleite that we included in there that accounts for disabilities. Um you tell me where in there is. Yeah I'm looking. Sorry miss. So it has audio signals and that is for and what and then it's lightly I think I saw that somewhere on the PowerPoint too. Did you all put that on the PowerPoint? We just want to make sure that you get what you want. Yeah.

Yeah. It is um detailed in the resolution um specifically let's see I believe there are multiple parts which mention it specifically um it does include at even just in the very end at the resolution section finally is that okay um it does specifically state that we want accessible pedestrian signals that typically refers to things like the audio signals

okay so we'll make sure that thank you so So I have worked with this class for this is my third year doing this with them and um this class I mean I was really impressed by this. I mean, I go in and they've already brain brainstormed before we get there and um they throw out a few things and this is one that they felt really strongly about and I was like, you know what, that's great. I had a child at child whatever. He's 22 now, but whatever. My son when he was at Central and I was picking up and dropping off. That's it. It it was bad then. And that was prior to the YW uh moving in there or I'm sorry, the YMCA moving in there. And um yeah, it's gotten worse as we all know and any and I also work downtown and I'm coming from the Northwest so I know that it's really bad and so for these students to come up with this on their own and write this um is impressive and I think it's an and it's I think it's important. I think this is one we should keep following up on.

Mr. Gary, go ahead. You go ahead. Is it all right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I would like to speak from personal experience. I am a legally blind student. um who has a guide dog and a white cane that helped me uh navigate. Um and I would just like to speak um about the accessibility of the scramble light. Um I have uh used the scramble light uh at Ball State multiple times. Uh, and I can speak from personal experience that having a scramble light is much more accessible than a regular um in uh traffic controlled intersection

uh because of the audible pedestrian signals. Uh for example, at Ball State um there's a chirping sound when um pedestrians are allowed to cross and cars are not. Uh so that would really work especially if we have a unique sound specifically for the um for when uh students are allowed to walk without cars. Um as well as truncated domes which uh

from my experience are mostly already present on that intersection. However, they uh sometimes can be uh damaged or because of the construction that's been going on there. um as well as uh accommodations for uh people who are hard of hearing. Uh that would all that would be uh solved through having the uh the signs uh across the road that have that show um when it is safe to walk kind of like how there are on regular uh intersections. So, um if this is done properly, which I truly believe that it will be, um I believe that this will uh be accommodating for almost every person with a disability. It will make it so much safer. Um because um it's can it can be very difficult to um you know, walk and pay attention to like every single thing that's going on. There are so many sounds, especially when there's so much traffic. uh there are cars going every which way, but having that audible pedestrian signal, it will make it so much easier. Um so I I just wanted to speak on that a little bit and explain that that this will definitely be an improvement for uh every disabled student and it it will make life so much better.

Thank you for educating us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Uh I just got the the way they spoke was amazing. Um, I always say it to every year, if you've you've had the privilege to be in Miss Snider's class, the way she teaches and allows you to she guides you, but allowed you to come up with your own ideas in your own mind. It is you are very one and rare. We we appreciate you from Southside, TOO. And I all the time. They educate me.

Oh, yeah. you uh we truly though uh and the biggest one that got me I love the statistics and the numbers but um we did combine high schools a while ago. I mean we're we're going on a while combining high schools. Um all the statistics but the the biggest one that gets me um we have one high school in the city. We've had two kids hit.

That that's not okay. That that's too too many. Um that's not okay. Um, this is a really good effective resolution and ordinance to come. This is like I mean you this affects not you but as you're driving down the road and that light comes up, you can say your class did this, your class helped this kid from not getting hit. Um, even I mean we have an historic fieldhouse. Um, you know, I want to get and see the point guard to hear good things, but there there's games on and after not during school, after school. It's it's one high school. It it's constantly busy. Um we worry about, you know, to and from school the most for sure. This is um a really great ordinance. Um the the feedback and the questions that you've answered that we've had is uh really uh very above par. So I just uh I'm in full support of this and I just this is a really good one. I like this is a really good one that that goes into place and affects daytoday life and um you know helps day-to-day life from multiple people. So thank you.

Thank you. Um like council person Goian, I just really appreciate being invited to be involved. It was really exciting to come to the to the class that day. Poor Lexi had to listen to me talk and talk and talk. Um, but I'm going to up the ante because something dropped in my lap. We had talked about the the cost of this, the possible cost. Uh, Shannon Powers from the Muny Parks and Recreation Department had notified me of an Indiana safe route to school grant application. Oh,

which this might just be a good fit. And so I will forward that information to you. You can talk to Mr. Walker and perhaps we can help make this happen because the city, you know, that and that's what I explained to you that day is that this is going to be difficult on some of these. But the got a hold of Mr. Leech. Uhhuh. Fantastic. The total Go ahead. Um I believe that the total, if I remember correctly, was about $340,000. That's more than this grant. Yes.

Granted. Granted, this was um an estimate from him. He did not express exactly where that number was coming from. And I do know that whenever I did the math on the parts cost, and I'm by no means an expert, I found that it shouldn't be more than $40,000 in actual construction costs. So, I suspect that the price will be lower. Wow. Miss uh Pal. Well, but I just I just wanted to I'll send that to you and if nothing else, it's a it's a start in regards to the the painted crosswalks and I know that we were talking about different things with the with the um sidewalks y

to create a safer path and so I will forward that to you and you guys can get to work on grant writing tomorrow. Um

but thank you for inviting me and and fantastic job on on all of this and the presentation. You guys ARE UH to add to Miss um Powell's um there was a an email sent to me way back and I did send it to Mr. Chuck Reynolds and it is from Elizabeth Wilcox the planning technician for Delaware County Muny Metropolitan Plan Commission. So the administration uh Mr. Grim and Mr. So I sent that to both of them and spoke them spoke to them about it. They specif I mean they really are were interested with the Westview project and said that there were grants to help with that. So please reach out back to Mr. Chuck Reynolds regarding that. And there is specific grants information and funding for school uh roads and pro protection for students. So I will email that to you too if you would reach out to the administration. So there's another way of funding that too. The applications for this are due March 18th though for this grant.

We got it. Okay. Any other motions from council? Okay. All those in favor of this introduction say I. I. I. Okay. Now we have a motion to adopt resolution. So 326. Second. Okay. And all those in favor signify by saying I opposed. Moving on resolution oh I'm sorry

4-26 get my real quick real quick on that resolution I know it's just a resolution but I'd like to uh challenge every one of you council members to work your butts off to get this done for these kids is very important that's a very busy intersection since we introduced the YMCA there it's really busy and there's too many kids. There's too many precious commodities walking through there every morning and every evening not to have something there to secure those folks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Have a motion to introduce resolution 4-26. Oh, you haven't read it yet. Sorry. Common council resolution 4-26. Common Council of the City of Muny Indiana resolution approving interlocal agreement for the housing and operating of a muniple drone base. A motion to introduce resolution 4-26. I'll make a motion to introduce. Have a second. Second. Okay. Could I have a point of of clarity?

Yes. Are do we need to introduce the resolution or do we just need to make a motion to adopt? Is that this one? It's just to introduce we need an introduction and an adopt. No, I thought that uh in the past we have had just um a motion to adopt and because it is a resolution it once passed it is resolved. Is that correct? Yes. And I may have led you astray. Yeah, you did. And we just signed your contract. You sure did. We read your summary. Y

Okay. Great. Thank you. Okay. We'll sec. We'll hear. Thank you. Thank you. That's right. You're welcome. Someone was chief here to speak on resolution 426.

Okay. Right. Yeah, Chief Sloan with Muny Police Department. I got a Detective uh Sergeant Chris Swanson here with me as well. Um the problem with drones, we use them all the time, right? But the problem with drones is they're never in a state of readiness, right? It always takes time to get these things in the air. Uh it depends on if the person that has been assigned the drone is working that day or whether it's available, whether it's charged. And those are all the things we're talking about. for the for the amount of incidents where we need to use it and can use it. Um sometimes we're unable to. And that's really what this is all about is getting this to an area where we can use it on a regular basis. U and the only thing we're talking about putting on top of the county building here is a drone, a drone base, an antenna, a camera, and a power andor data cords. Okay, so that's literally it. Um, we want the drone located at the county building due to the fact that we already have offices and personnel there who can tend to the drone and already have an interlocal agreement for those offices. It has the height, the security, the central location, the power and the data capabilities that we need. The main focus of this is to ensure that the drone is charged and ready at all times to assist officers. This will help combat crime and it will accomplish all the other tasks that we need to do. So, any questions?

Mr. If uh Chief, how long has this drone program been in operation? Probably I mean we've been we've been running drones probably 8 10 years. Say that again. Probably 8 to 10 years. Thank you.

And Chief, what what are you using for this program? You say it's a program.

Sure. Um so we use them for a lot of different things, right? We use them for locating fleeing suspects. We we use them for um vehicle pursuit mitigation hopefully. Uh warrant service overview, search and rescue, uh criminal evidence collection and crime scene det uh documentation, uh vehicle crash documentation, uh officer awareness in dangerous situations and critical incidents. Um tactical uses, of course, we like to uh usually send a drone in in a tactical situation to clear an area before we send officers in and risk their lives. um potentially uh natural disasters and uh lost children and endangered adults particularly because uh when you lose an endangered adult uh in the middle of winter and it's cold outside and they you don't know what they left with, you don't know what their condition is, what their mental state is, we need to find them right now. Um so officers stumbling around in the dark is not efficient. Uh we'd like to use the drone for stuff like that. I have several so you can skip me after each or you know get somebody. Okay. So I'm going to ask you this. Who's going to own the footage that you

Muny police will retain all of that stuff and it should be uploaded. We're working with the drone company now to um get that uploaded into Axon which is where we'd like to store everything just like our body cams. Okay. So the vendor May I continue council? Does anyone else have a question? Does anybody else can I have follow? So, do vendors have access to that? So, you store it. Do the vendors have access to that data? I mean, it's it's owned by us. I I'm sure that at some Can they see it and then use it? The whoever your vendor use uh I don't know if it's uploaded in Axon, I would guess not because the companies are not saying compatible. Yeah.

Mr. B. Um, thank you. Um, and am I correct that you have also used drones both city and county in high traffic situations to identify where to send help? Where to send Oh, sure. Yeah. And now I don't know what county is doing. I can't speak to that, but I do know other agencies around the state. I mean, Anderson, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, all all these other agencies are running drones on a regular basis for various projects. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Anyone else will question? Oh, I do have a lot. I don't know what So then, so right now, where is this? What where do you keep this? Now,

where we keep them in the cars, uh, as as the guys or gals, uh, run around the city at night. Um, so there are there are officers that are drone pilots, uh, like Detective Sergeant Chris Swanson behind me here. Uh, it's a part 107 pilot. Um, and he's, uh, he's pretty good at what he does. One of the smart kids. So, okay. I do have another question. May Yes. Go ahead. So, let's say you sent a drone for a certain thing, right? For safety. And I I think drones I think technology is amazing. We need to utilize that.

It helps prevent, you know, crime, all that good stuff. But there's certain things I need to process in my head. For example, so you send a drone out for a certain assignment. Can footage from that assignment used for different investigation? Like you send the drone on a mission to spy on me. Okay. Okay. Well, let's not use the word spy. What? Whatever. No, that's not what we're doing.

I'm doing I'm committing a crime in my back patio, right? You some my neighbor calls you and say, "Hey, Rose's doing this." You send a girl. I am doing this, but then my next door neighbor's doing something else. And then do you go back and look at that to get the Generally not. So unless it's an exigent circumstance or we have a warrant, we're not going to send it to somebody's house uh like this. Um if if somebody calls in and says, "Hey, there's a shooting going on or there's gunfire or something like that." Yes, we would send it to it, but we're not just going to send it over somebody's house. Okay. Well, you want to use shooting, you know, just rand Yeah, just random calls in. Once you send a drone on a mission, you collect the data for that mission. M

what you see around later on will not be brought back for another investigation say oh wait at this time we did this this no okay yes okay well I'm just privacy I mean this is this is there's a fine line between that and privacy and I'm sorry about my questions are fine no great question thank you um to but to be clear this resolution is about storing correct yeah a a a platform form for storage to to make sure it's charged all the time and in a state of readiness. Correct. This way. Okay. Okay. Yes, Mr. Yes. Okay. Um, circling back to something you said. You said you had already had many offices in the county building. What?

I I didn't say many offices. I said we do have offices in the in the county building. What off? May I ask the high-tech crimes unit? Point of I'm sorry. The high-tech crimes unit. Okay. Thank you. I just was curious. That's the first I've ever heard of that. Um so how many officer uh how many pilots drone pilots do you have? Currently there are two uh but depending on how we do this um there's what's called a certificate of authority which gives um anybody who's trained at the department to do this uh the ability to fly these things. So

and I appreciate you uh responding today to the questions I sent. Obviously, there's a lot of questions within the community. Um, and I think that my concern and something that I've expressed is that yes, this is about an interlocal agreement, but to build So, we already have the the drones. We're not going to be purchasing more additional drones, right? We've already paid for We've already paid for the drones and um Council Person Selby talked about uh use of footage and so again there was some uh comments in your email about cost. Mhm.

Is there going to be additional costs by putting these there? And and you know where will that come from? Well, like I said in my in my email, all all this comes from the police department's budget. Um, I have to get approval from you to put it there before I know what the cost is going to be for for putting it on on top of the building. So, there's wires to be run and things like that. Um, yeah. So, and follow up for that, sir. Yes. Go right here.

Will this come from your 106 fund? Will it come from grants? Because my concern is at a time when we are talking about hiring freezes and things along those lines for other departments that if you're going to come and ask for more general fund dollars and that's going to further make a a horrible situation for some of our nonpublic safety safety employees. So will this come from funds that are strictly for the police department that cannot be I don't see us I don't foresee us coming to you for any funds for this. Good. All right. Thank you. Uh I might have missed it, but did you give an could you give me an example of of what you use it for?

Uh well, like I said, um sometimes we have missing children. Um sometimes we have fugitives on the run. Uh sometimes we have missing adults and things like that. So any any of those kinds of situations, uh those that I read down through earlier are just a sample of what we can use it for. Would one of the examples be uh face identification like maybe? No, there's no plans for that. What's to stop that from happening? Um me and policy. Okay. Yeah. What what what is the success rates as so far?

The success rate of I don't know how to quantify that. Um well, I mean, specifically in um say um an ERU situation, a SWAT type situation or a tactical situation, um it lets our officers know prior to going in uh what the layout of the house is, what the condition of the house is, where the suspects might be hiding, which doors are open, which doors are shut, uh and just what they might encounter when they go in this house, so they can plan appropriately and, you know, hopefully prevent us from using any kind of force that's unnecessary or from our people getting hurt. I have a question for you. The drone that would be set on the county building then uh what's the range and time fly time? Um something like that.

I don't think that's probably something we want to talk about here. Yeah, that's all right. Okay. Mhm. Yes. Um Mr. Macintosh asked question about the uh facial recognition and I didn't hear the response. You did? I have no interest in facial recognition for this at this point. There's no saying possible. Okay. I'm sorry. May I finish? Okay. So, is there a policy? Is there anything written down for us? Yes. It doesn't necessarily address facial recognition, but there is there is no plan for that. Where is it written that there's no I mean

this question was posed to us. We we aren't even thinking about facial recognition. That's not something that this is going to be used for. Okay. Okay. Again, if we're going on the record saying that's what it's not going to be used for. Okay. You have used drones for 10 years 18 years. 18 years. County has used drones also and continues to. We're talking about an agreement just to house to store, right? and and these other issues of course are important and interesting for us to know the answers to. But again, this

this interlocal agreement, this resolution that we're voting on tonight is just for storing that's the that's it. Yeah. Okay. So you you mentioned that we needed to approve this prior to you having a a number trying the cost. I don't understand why that there's always if I mean if if you guys aren't going to approve it, I need to look for someplace else. Sure. But so you have but do you have some kind of number then on what this actually would cost? No, I I can't know that because we haven't been into the building and had somebody look at it to determine exactly what that's going to be. So, it's I I don't expect it to be an exorbitant number to install, but

question. How many drones are we talking about? How many do we have? And how many do you need? Oh, I'm sorry. Did you give me permission? Yes. Go ahead. Okay. I'm sorry. You said earlier, one one just So, we're going to do that for just one drone. Yeah, just just one drone on the base is all we're talking about. We have other drones, but this is just one drone on the base to make sure that one is always ready at all times. And do Maya. Yes. And do we have a number how much they want or how much are we going to be paying for that interlocal agreement? Is there nothing? That's what I'm saying. We're going to have to get in there and find out exactly once we get permission from you folks to get in there and look at it. You see what I'm saying? Thank you. Thank you so much for answering the questions. Thank you.

We have questions from the audience, I believe. I'm sorry. Real quick, Audi Barber again. Um, this has been approved a long time ago. This is just to house the to charge the drone. Okay. But I'm kind of curious, how often are the drones being used at this time? Yeah.

I mean, are they used every day? Are they used just on certain cases and so on so forth? Again, that goes to availability of the drone, right? Um, we could use it more. Um, but right now it's just contingent on who's working at the time and, you know, if the drone is ready to go. So, uh, sometimes we have to call people in, which costs more money and it wastes time in critical situations or when we're looking for somebody or something like that. So, uh, we could definitely use it more. Okay. How often have you used it in the last year? Not sure I can put a number on the Oh,

probably more than that, but I I couldn't put a number on it right now. Okay. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Someone else questions.

Hello.

My name is Tanya Pearson. I'm a resident of Muny, Indiana. Um, I want to once again thank uh, Council Person Norah Powell for keeping us all up to date on these resolutions and ordinances and um, just maintaining an environment of complete uh, transparency. Um, so I was able to read a response from Chief Sloan. Um he responded this afternoon to an email um that Ms. Powell sent to him um and stated uh that regarding ordinance 426 uh that Muny police already have drones and he hasn't heard any contestation from the public. Um and I think that's probably because a lot of us didn't know. Um it's kind of a recurring theme. Uh so I did a little research and uh the Ball Brothers Foundation did in fact award more than $50,000 to fund the purchase of drones as part of its emergency management initiative in in 2021. And this was designed to promote public safety. Um and I have to say I'm I'm a proud member of the south a South Central neighborhood in Muny. It is a neighborhood that when actually a student recently just said, "Ooh, that's dangerous down there." And I love my community. I love my neighbors, but I live in a very uh drug addled um heavily policed area. And my interactions with the Muny police, and this isn't an individual issue. This is an institutional issue because of where I live have not been uh wonderful interactions. It's very different when I'm at Ball State um and I'm not in a poor neighborhood and treated like a poor drugaddicted person. So 5 years

later after this initial uh drone program um the most heavily policed neighborhoods are dis disproportionately impoverished, undereducated, undermployed, and drugaddicted. They are not more safe than they were before there were drones. They're certain Thanks. They're certainly not going to be more safe uh if the Muny police invests in a storage facility for one mega drone. I don't really understand. 25 years ago, you got Oh, if you're over uh 45, you remember a time before the Patriot Act, the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and ICE, and the militarization of neighborhood police forces. A proposed a proposed drone base would have been an affront to the fourth amendment, our rights to privacy and our civil liberties. Everyone in this room would be freaking the out. This kind of mass surveillance is so normalized at this point that it's scary. Um, criminality is a symptom of poverty. Drug addiction is a symptom of poverty. Full stop. Stop criminalizing poverty and addiction. spend money in community-based alternatives and on organizations already doing the work on the ground every day like the Serenity Club, like Recovery Cafe. Thank you very much. Stop building townous and crisis centers that are never open. Pay teachers, subsidize small businesses, invest in infrastructure on the side of town that you never ever visit or go to. I've never seen the mayor on my side of town. Take the time to unlearn the stereotypes surrounding homelessness, poverty, addiction, and criminality. If all else fails, ask yourself, what would Jesus do? Probably not invest in a drone base.

I'm Andrew Seager. I'm a resident of Muny. Uh I'm neither for nor against this because I don't know what it involves and it appears to me that from from the conversation that you're not very clear about it either. Uh I wonder the question is do you have in front of you is something in writing rather than relying on oral conversation about what it involves. I think you should we're talking about transparency. I don't think you should vote on it without having it in front of you in writing. Thank you. Thank you.

Pretty sure I answered all the questions that put to me in the email earlier about what this would entail. You did. Um so just making sure we're clear about that. I know he might not be aware, but I did try and answer all the questions in writing as to what this entails. Yeah. Okay.

And and the answer questions tough questions we asked here too. So thank you. Ricky answer news man and author. Uh the only question I had again is how much it's going to cost. I was a county commissioners meeting today and they tabled this for some more information. And if you don't know the cost regardless of just needing a flat platform for drones, uh I would um think again before you do anything. Yeah, I know.

Yeah. Hello. Uh, my name is Cooper. Uh, first I just want to echo everything that Professor Tanya said. Um, you know, all that stuff. I just want to repeat that. Um, but I also just want to ask like a few questions and make a few statements like firstly like like what type what does the world come to where we have the students talking about building crosswalks and making the community safer, but we got the police talking about drones and what type What type of world is it where the students come here with more statistics? Uh they have uh information on the cost from two different sources. The police have no clue what's going on.

My sorry my my apologies for the exploitive. Uh a little heated. Um again, I mean I don't know how these drones are going to be combating crime and why we need to be investing all this money. Uh again, I mean we're saying it's going to come from the police budget, but in the resolution it just says the city of Muny shall incur all cost. It doesn't say anything about it can only come from the police budget. I think that'd be important to put in there in wording and make it uh uh just make it like official that you know I'm not my tax money is it's only coming from the police budget. It's if it's going to be by used by the police. I think that is a fair ask and a fair thing to put in there. Um and again I mean how often are we using these drones to where we need a base to uh keep them? I don't know why. Like uh like what what what uh like what how often are we using drones where we need to have a separate building? We can't just keep them in the cars as are why can't the police just charge them before they're going to use them or keep them on standby charged? Uh yeah. And I mean I don't I don't know. I just think there needs to be a lot more information before we commit to something like this. Um yeah, that was really all I had to say. HI, I'M CHRIS SWANSON. UM, I'm one of the drone pilots and um, I get assigned a drone to take take home and to work with me. And some of the issues that we definitely could utilize the the use of the drone more um, is missing children. Um, I've had several times that, you know, I'm not working or something like that, and I've had a call like, "Hey, we got a missing three-year-old, something like that." Um, being able to dispatch a drone quickly, um, as opposed to having to wait for somebody to come in from out of town or wherever the case is. Um, just to have an officer that can respond to

the scene from a drone that's already centralized. And um I think Chief Sloan had spoken in some of the questions about having um be more accessible to officers that are actually on scene and working. Um so I think that would definitely be a huge improvement. We've had several missing person cases, silver alerts, things like that that would be beneficial. Looking for people that are lost in the woods, things like that. Those are the type of things that we're really want to use this for primarily over than yes, we have tactical elements sometimes that uh Chief Sloan had spoken with, but being able to dispatch it for public safety um is one of the huge things. Um, if you have somebody that just committed a robbery, um, you and that person was running through your backyard, I think being able to get the police tip to where that person is if they're going into a house or something like that, um, would basically be could potentially be a life-saving situation. So, um, that's definitely one of the biggest reasons that we want to implement a program like this is for public safety. Um, it's not to, as Chief Sloan said, it's not to record people's faces or things like that. It's to keep people safe.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi. Um, again, I am Damian Jones. I represent only my own beliefs. So, I have a lot of strong feelings about the drone situation. Um, as somebody who is a programmer and I do a lot of robotics and mechanics, I work heavily with both AI and drones and okay, I'm trying to think of which point is best to bring up first here. Um, yeah, my first thought is that drones are not necessary. There are there are other measures that we could be using both to prevent and reduce crime. Um, truthfully, okay, when I think of these drones, it makes me think of a surveillance state because the truth is that is very much like a surveillance state. I know that he is saying that we're not going to be using them for face detection. We're not going to be using them for tracking people. We're not going to send them to your house unless there's a crime going on. But the truth is that first of all, that is not in writing. Second of all, if that is in writing, it will get changed. Um, our US government said that they were not going to be using AI for piloting drones in the war and yet they just signed a several billion dollar contract with Open AI to do exactly that. There is no guarantee in the world that Muny PD will not be doing the same thing. The power of drones is completely excessive. Part of the sanctity of a human's privacy in this city includes things like the fact that if the police are not directly in your backyard, they do not know what is happening. And that's okay. You have a right to privacy as a human being in this country. Um it IS it is specifically implied by the constitution. You have the right not to be watched. And again, he says that we're not going to be watched. But the truth is that there is absolutely no law stopping them from just flying a drone up to your window. In fact, I'm pretty

sure even a civilian's allowed to do that um within a certain extent. And there's also nothing saying that they can't just say that they have probable cause to send it into your backyard and see you. Um, additionally, the suggestion that we will be using this to find missing children, I think is questionable because in that case, right, we need to remember that missing children are not standing randomly on the top of a roof or in an open plane. They are, like he said, in forests or in houses. But the drones can't properly navigate these forests. It's a lot better to put people in there. Frankly, if I was missing and I was scared, I would not run towards a drone. I would think that's going to explode me. And I know that might sound like an irrational fear, but for years now, we have had the technology. There are videos online of even TED talks where they got out drones this big that have they have automatic tracking systems, they have cameras, and they have bombs, and they can explode a person. I I don't want to fearonger, but I can't guarantee that Muny PD is not going to be equipping weapons like that on these drones. There is no real purpose to these drones other than either surveillance or violence. Um it does make me think of the the whole panopticon thing, right? The idea that well maybe the prisoners won't try to escape if they all think that they're always being lodged. That's not a healthy way to prevent crime. The way that we should be preventing crime is by doing things like improving our city, being there for our people. Um, it means creating a sense of community. It means doing, like she said earlier, working on um uplifting the south side of town. It means making more opportunities for people. People turn to crime because they're missing something and they need help. That's not to say that we're not going to be fighting crime, but that's to say that we don't all need to be stared at by floating eyeballs with guns on them to not do crime. we just there there's really no actual practical benefit to this and there are

a lot of better places that our tax dollars could be going to. Um yeah, it it's just not in any way necessary. And frankly, what it feels like is my PD acting like they are at war with the people. This is something that I see a lot. um they've been repeatedly accused of uh excessive force and aggression towards the citizens and truthfully sometimes that feels true. I feel that they are kind of hostile towards me even when I'm just looking for help. They don't I don't know. I just feel like this drone idea feels more like they're trying to be at war with us. They're not trying to keep us safe or help us. Drones would not make me feel any more safe. and I do live on the south side of town, but if I see a drone flying, I'm going to feel significantly more unsafe. And I think a lot of my friends can probably agree that they feel the exact same way. There's just no need for these drones. They're completely unnecessary, expensive, they're not going to help anybody, and there is absolutely nothing in the world to guarantee that they will not become a danger to the common people of my Audi Barber. Uh, once again, we're missing the point here. They've already they're already using them.

This is just They're already using them. Yeah. This is just a point to be able to access the drone faster if somebody elderly Alzheimer's patient parent is missing. Amen. Or if there is a kid missing. Yes. Lord forbid anybody's kid come missing. And I understand that. And we've all got these things right here that keep very good track of us and they've all got cameras on them and they're all recording us all now. Why do you think we're building all these data centers?

But the point here is it's not about the drones. It's about the charging system that they need to save time on putting these drones up in the air because they are already using them. They've done told you they've been using them for eight or 10 years. They're already using them, folks. If you want to stop that, you're going to have to change the law. You're going to have to go back and get some amendments applied, ordinances filed, and stuff like that. This is just a resolution.

This is just a resolution. Don't give it no teeth. They're going to do it anyhow. Period. The only thing is the council would like to know how much it's going to cost to get up on that building and run them wires and put a put a stand up. That's what it boils down to. It's not about who they're peeking on or who they're looking at, whatever.

It's a cost of how much it's going to cost to put that thing on there. And maybe you guys can table it and say, "Hey, go get us an estimate. bring it back next month and we'll tell you whether we're going to pass the resolution to where you can take it on and bring it on in and pay pay for it. So, that's my opinion on it. They're already using them, folks. It's too late. It's already being used. Thank you.

Okay, just to be clear, um I think the term was explode people. We we can't explode people. Um we don't attach guns to them. Uh, let me just read you IC 353359. A law enforcement officer must obtain a search warrant in order to use an unmanned aerial vehicle on or over private property or to conduct a search, perform surveillance, obtain a photograph, or to obtain video of private property or of individuals, items, or structures located on private property without the consent of the owner of the affected private property. However, a warrant is not required for use of an unmanned aerial vehicle if a warrant would not be required for a search not using an unmanned aerial vehicle. Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. Just point of clarification. I think Sergeant Swanson has something.

Um there are FAA regulations that absolutely prohibit dangerous um weapons, objects being attached to drones. So that would include things like deploying any type of weapon or or anything like that. So there's there's definitely no no fear of any type of violence being utilized by the drones. Um and that also includes anything going like attack drones, things like that. So like any of that any of that type of stuff is not going to it's not possibly to be used by by the Muny Police Department. Now the feds like if they operated under different rules that that's something different, but um as far as the Muny Police Department's concerned, it's strictly observation.

Okay. um that it would be used for. And as the code also talks about, like we're not going to be able to use it for situations unless we have a search warrant for it unless there's unless a search would not be um required by by the law. So that would be an exigent situation such as if we're looking for a missing person um or a dangerous person or something like that. So, I mean, that's that's the nuts and bolts of Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. Okay. I think the gentleman asked if they had anything in writing and I think we're kind of putting the cart before the horse here.

I wrote it down. The purpose the purpose of this agreement is set forth the rights and responsibilities of the parties and the housing and operating of a municipal drone base. Yes. For the city governmental function. This agreement should create a revocable license only and shall not convey any leaseold easement or other property interest. Uh, you know, I hear a lot a lot of people talking about drones. We're talking about a base, a charging base

for this drone that's been in operation for 8 to 10 years. Uh, you know, let's not blow this thing out of proportion. Thank you. I I know the one of the big things that all all I mean literally not the big things but one of the things we're asking for the only thing we're really asking for is to run electrical Yeah.

and data um to the building up to the roof. Um my office is over there. I work in the high-tech crime unit. I'm assigned to work there and um it would literally be um on top of my office over there. So, um I would be over there and accessible to it if it's needed for anything and kind of managing um to make sure that it's it's safe and secure. Thank you, Mr. Okay. One other talk about an extension. The chief said that this was coming out of the police budget. Yes. Now, I think we need a point of clarification on that. Um bottom

the police department is the police department. Well, I guess they're considered the city. Shall bear 100% of all costs related to the drone base, including installation, operation, maintenance, insurance, inspection, removal, restoration. The county shall have no financial obligation. I think what we need to be talking about is the cost. what the cost of this is going to be. There's nothing in here clarifying what the cost of this is going to be. You know, we're we're talking about drones and what drones can do when that's not what we're here for.

Okay. So, I'd like to know a little bit more about what the cost of this operation is going to be. Okay, Chief, if you have any Can we let Can we let the gentleman speak? Yeah, let let the young man stay. Chief, could he speak real quickly? The young man, right? He says, I'm sorry. You want him to speak or me? Let him go ahead. Let go and stay. He's standing there if you don't mind. Just a moment.

Thank you so much. I was waiting my turn. Um, first of all, I have a few things written down. Uh, I'd like to start off with the proportion comment. I don't feel it is very welcoming to come to the people you're representing and tell them they're overreacting of any sort. Your position is not to tell us how to feel, but to represent us for what we feel. Um, thank you very much. And uh, yeah, I'd like to reiterate what you said, the cost that is really getting at me there. I'm sure we'll hear a lot from him right after me. And then the policy portions, they're very concerning to me. Um, but again, we're talking about a base. So, from that perspective, um, if we have them in cars and stuff, why do we need the base to begin with is my main question. Uh, I'll I'll just like sit with you guys on the 8 to 10 year part that they're already being used and they're going to continue being used. Um, why do we need to upgrade them? Why do we need to keep moving them forward upwards if they're already functioning and have been functioning for 8 to 10 years? Um, I feel like that's just opening the community up to a cost that could come from people or different boards that already are out of that money. That's my main point here. Um, thank you so much.

Oh, my name is Juno. Okay. So, as Detective Swanson said, Detective Sergeant Swanson said, it is just a matter of running the cabling up there and getting a contractor up there to get that estimate. So, as soon as we know that, it's what 25 linear feet maybe. So, it's not going to be Do you have an estimate or No. Do what? Do you have an estimate? I mean, I I'm going to get estimate. Yes, it's an estimate. Yeah. Uh, less than $5,000 probably. Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, thank you. Anything else? We're jumping fast. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Question.

Evening again, council. Uh try and be quick through this one. I want to start off and say that like through the number of conversations I've had with Chief Sloan, like I have no doubt that he has the benefit of Muny at heart and everything like that. Um the problem is that Chief Sloan unfortunately we're going to have chiefs after you and so we have to watch I think what you're hearing from the people are concerns because we haven't been able to have this conversation um we not not with not on any level really and we certainly haven't had it with u the milit the increased militar militarization of police um crackdowns on on constitutional rights that we've been seeing in recent times and the past year so especially um these are valid concerns and like I I believe that the police have valid you know reasons for wanting a drone and I'm not trying to suggest we don't have a drone but we have you know they're going to talk about missing children and these things that play on our heartstrings and everything like that whereas we have the reality that it's possible that they end up being used to surveil homeless camps. Where are the homeless camps around Muny? How how do we get rid of those? Uh but to back to back to what we're talking about because we are just talking about a resolution on whether or not to to allow this one. I think there are a lot of valid question a lot of good questions you all have had and a lot of good questions from us to where where is the money coming from specifically. Do we need an amendment to this? I would ask that we table or whatever you need to do for the resolution like because if this is just a a first reading if it doesn't get passed till next time, we don't have to pass it tonight. Um,

it's a right. Um, so we don't have to pass it tonight. Great. And to just a resolution, right? It is to allow them so to allow them to do this. And you're right that they can go ahead and do this, but the council has the option to make his voice known to represent the people. Um, I'm going to stand up against the argument that just because we've had phones in our pocket doesn't mean that drones are okay. But we should have

the cost the cost should be I maybe this is something with the system the way you know things get different with government I know to where sometimes you need a resolution in order to allow this to happen in order to find the cost but it seems to me like a lot of times we get these things to where if I were going to a bank want to renovate my house when I need to know what the estimate is for that to go say hey I need to borrow this money not that they're borrowing any money but they're going to need to spend money but where's that money coming from um just knowing information, making information available. What what you also have the ability to do here, this raises a lot of questions that you all should be having to where what are the drone policies because we can't always rely on a good police chief. We can't rely on what's not there, what we don't think will happen. So, we can put it in writing what will not happen. And I would personally like to see some kind of joint agreement from our our police and council and administration that we will not be using this technology against the people even in vast by higher powers. Um I would think that there would be reports if we've been using it 8 to 10 years that there would be ability to ask questions the as to the effectiveness. How often are they being used? Is it three times a month? Is it three times a week? What's the effectiveness? how have we been how many times has it been shut down because it doesn't have a battery charged those kinds of things. Um and then there is the question of public information. Uh I know while you know they they have no plans to release information to to you know go through and and do that. What if I said what if I submitted an NAPRA? Is that going to allow me to access police video from the drone footage? And I mean these are things that should be set in our policies and I think you have an opportunity to think about these things as we move forward and I would appreciate it if you would. Thank you.

Uh I have a couple of just things that I think everybody should be asking. Um first and foremost I'm as pro police and supportive of law enforcement as anybody can get. Uh, and I appreciate the chief reading the law, but for citizens to think that there are police officers or there have not been times where officers have done things they shouldn't do, Audie. Uh, that does happen. That does happen. Okay. Not saying that anybody here on MPD is going to do it. I hope. I hope. But, you know, uh, we do have to think about that. The other thing is it's odd to me that we have two of these that are in cars. I would have thought we had 10 or 15 or 20 of them. Honestly, I I was shocked to find out we only have two. It's strange to me because I'm thinking about this. We're like, well, we want to have a centralized location where one of them is charged so that if there's a pursuit on uh Broadway and McGalliard and the pursuit's going crazy, we're going to have to send an officer up to the county building to lock this into this thing. Start it. Where are we going to be then? and they're going to have to chase the car where to me it makes more sense to have this thing in the car charged up and ready to go. And when we say, "Well, we they might not be charged." Look, an officer is not going to come to work with bullets not in the magazine, the magazine not in the gun. If officers have these drones in the cars, it should be their responsibility to make sure that they are charged. I don't know whether it's just 5,000 or 35,000 or a,000 to put this in a centralized location why we would be spending any extra money to do something that we can't already do. It makes more sense that this it it we would never say, "Well, let's put the guns at the county building and if you guys need the guns, go up and get the guns." We would never do that. It doesn't make sense to not have these drones where these officers are when when they need to be there.

Maybe it's something and I I I look I'm not pro drone. I'm I'm really worried about some of the things that it could be used for in the future. But if it's a question of if we're saving all these children with it and all these elderly people with it, which there there are good drone question there are good instances where drones can be used. I'm not debating that. But wouldn't it make more sense to have more drones? Maybe let's I don't know how much a drone is, but couldn't we use that $5,000 and buy a couple extra drones and put them with a couple extra officers in the cars rather than making something with the county building? The other thing is the money is what it comes down to. You guys have had a lot of questions. The citizens have had a lot of questions. I appreciate that the chief responded to the questions today,

but that went out on one counselor's page and very few people got to see that. The biggest question here is the council tabled this today. You guys should table this today. We should ask more questions. I know it's just $5,000 that we've been told, but let's just uh table this, ask more questions. Come back next month because again, this is a resolution. It only requires one vote. So, it's not like two votes and whatever. If you pass it tonight, it's done. So, there's no reason that we need to get ahead of the county. What if we pass it? you guys pass this interlocal and then in two weeks when the county meets they say no we're not going to do it. So why don't we maybe back up and you guys could get with your counterparts on the commissioners talk with them find out what the issue is and let the public know. Maybe if we had more knowledge if the people had more knowledge of what was going on maybe they wouldn't be as afraid or maybe we still need to just say no altogether. Thank you. Bye. Sam Johnson, Muny. Uh, I just want to acknowledge I think I've heard some murmurss from I was going to say the peanut gallery, but I guess that would include me. Um, that the public comment has kind of exceeded the scope of what's actually on the paper in terms of this is just about the base. Um, but at the same time, uh, a lot of people might not know about the drones, and if this is their opportunity to speak, that makes sense that they'd want to speak up. And there's also something to the fact about, uh, if you don't like what's being done with the drones, just because they are being used doesn't mean that we have to make it easy for the police to utilize them if it's something that we people do disagree with. Now, do they disagree with it or do they not disagree with it? I think part of that has to do with transparency. Um, you know, they said this program has been going for eight or 10 years. I mean, right there there's ambiguity in that answer. U, I

think, you know, if you'd like to have some more solid information on what's being done with the drones, how long it's been in operation, and if it's been in operation that long, um, hopefully the police can try to build some trust uh, by providing some transparency on how it is being used. You know, they said how it can be used, but how something can be used and how something actually is used can be two very different things. you know, they could use this to help Nicholas Cage find the Declaration of Independence. That doesn't mean that that's what's actually happening. Um, so, you know, I don't think anyone here I'd be surprised if anyone objected to finding, you know, lost children with drones. Um, and if that is a big part of what's being done with the program, it would be great to see some statistics about the use of those drones. Um, and that could give us encouragement. or if it's being used in ways that people don't like um then that could lead to pressure to an input of how they would like this technology to be used. Um thank you.

Thank you. Okay, last time I'll be up.

We've operated it for 8 to 10 years without any complaints, without getting sued, without reckoning anybody, without having any problems whatsoever. Okay, this is about putting a drone on top of a building. It has nothing to do with how we're using it. Okay. Um I'm here to tell you, uh we don't we don't track the numbers of times that we use it and what for. That's not what this is all about. Um if it is used in the prosecution of somebody, it's put in a report. Okay. Um it's just not I I think we've gotten into the weeds here. Um so just my opinion. Um, if you guys don't want us to put it on top of the county building, vote no. I'll find someplace else to put it, I guess. Uh, but that's where I'm at with it.

Thank you, Chief. Any other questions from council? I have a question. Thanks.

Um, a lot of points have have been raised while we while we sitting here. Uh, number one, I would like to see the written policy for drone use. I think that um that's something that should be shared with council. It it it should have been shared with the ordinance. Um I think a lot of the reason that people are concerned is because I don't know that we expected that that we were using drones. That's not something that we've really promoted. Um, I think this is a is a a delicate balance between safety of officers, which is very very important, and the civil liberties of our of our constituents. Um, but putting all that away, my my number one concern, because we are the the financial body, is that we go back to we don't know how much this is going to cost. I know you've said $5,000, but we don't know. Um, things things go go higher. Um, and I'm fine with that if that's the money that I'm sorry, what was that, Chief?

If you need to look at bids, that's how the process is set up. Okay. Well, and but it would have been nice to have brought an estimate with this just so we could have an idea because obviously a lot of us have questions about the cost. I'm I'm going to continue. I'm going to continue, Chief. But

so my next thing because I am keeping an eye on how we spend our money because every dollar that we spend from the general fund are dollars where we have to increase hiring freezes and the employees that get harmed when we take more money out of the general fund are our ask me employees and our civil employees. And so I would like to make a motion if it's possible to amend the interlocal agreement page one at the bottom where it says the city shall bear 100% of all costs related to the drone base including installation, operation, maintenance, insurance, inspections, removal and and restoration to add something and and uh Mr. Mr. Arnold, perhaps you can help me to word this, but it something along the lines of these funds will come 100% from the Muny Police Department budget fund 106 or other funds that are only available to the Muny Police Department for use.

That's fine. I told you I wasn't going to come back to you for more money for this. And I understand that you might not serve, but it doesn't mean necessarily that

it doesn't mean necessarily what's in writing is what we have to go on. We I mean we could we we could come back and say but you said but but it's not in writing and so that is my motion to amend the interlocal agreement section one under scope the city shall bear 100% 100% of all costs related to the drone base including installation operation maintenance insurance inspections removal and restorations and then add these funds will come 100% from the myy police department budget fund 106 or other funds that are only available to the Muny Police Department for use. I'll second that motion. Thank you.

The city council isn't a party interal. We can't make an amendment to the interlocal agreement. You're notic.

Let's put that in the resolution then. Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sure. I I want to make a motion that we that we table this. I obviously we need we need more information on on the on the money uh on the financial side of it. Point of order. We have a we have a motion and a second on the floor and we we need to address that before we come in for something else. It's a null motion though. I can't do it. So, it's dead.

No, he said that you could make a motion on the the resolution, not the I haven't made a motion on the resolution and so Okay. Councilman Council person Golian made a motion to table. I second it. So, Point of order could be the motion to amen the agreement and the motion to amen the agreement is at order and so the chair makes that determination we can move on to motion to so move. Okay. So we need a vote.

A point of clarity. We are voting on tableabling this resolution. And if we vote yes, it means we want to table it. If we vote no, it means we don't want to table it. Is that correct? Okay. Good. Yes. Can we We need to vote. Y we need to vote. There's a motion. We need to vote. Motion's been made. Roll call. Miss. Yes. Table it. Miss. Yes. Mr. Macintosh. Yes. Mr. Garrett? Yes. Mr. Dash? No. Yes. Mr. No.

Yes. No.

Well, let's just take the resolution's table. Mr. President, yes. Would it be possible, not dealing with this resolution, but to send the use of drones? Can we send that to committee to public services just so we can have more information on how our police department is utilizing their drones? um public services would would be um chaired by Jerry Dishman, members are Harold Mason and Sarah Golian and just to get more information on how the drones are used and maybe then the public will feel more comfortable

and then we can also get more information regarding the financials. I not necessarily at the committee meeting but at a later time have the committee do that at a later time. Yes, we can do that. So I'm there's nothing we'll need to do before the next there's nothing. So it would just be the committee deciding to Okay. So that would be something that that councilman uh chairman Jerry Dishman would need to decide if he wants public services to meet. All right. Thank you. Not yet. We're going to public comment. Yes. I had a comment before we reached all this stuff, but I also have a comment now that but that issue is over with the resolution's done. Favor. what table

public comment and I I do want to stress again that public comment is not a Q&A it's not a question and answer you come up you have three minutes you'll be timed and you cannot give your minutes to someone else you can come up as your name is called okay and I just want to say that I was given this so when it's at 3 minutes I'm going to let the president know that time is up and I would appreciate appreciate it if you respect that. Uh time is up. So for the first person that was uh registered for public comment is Mr. Richard the answer. You're welcome.

Five days. Rick Yanser, newsman, author. Um, we stand in a moment of history here because the world is at war and war means it's going to cost more. So, I'm glad tonight at least council thought about how much anything costs because I noticed here last week I wasn't around and I see now we're using money or possible money to tear down something that's been here for a half a century, namely the mall. And I'm still wondering why we're not spending more on economic development because you know two of our biggest industries left town some time ago and are out in Yorktown Merc and of course Muny Power Products been around here a century and they're bringing a manufacturing plant here but they're not bringing back to Muny, they're bringing it back to Yorktown. So I think you need to think about using money for its intended purpose for economic development. And if you want to talk tear something down, I hear a lot of noise from people in South Muny about Southway Plaza. Now I know

uh you're on the unsafe building. I think the time's come to do something because there's trash being dumped there. Uh, I heard some reports people hanging out, sleeping there, and I think the time's come just tear that down and clean up that corner like the mayor and others have cleaned up um, Memorial and Burlington and of course 29th and Madison too. And while you're looking for more money, uh another southside need, I saw in the park um uh plan that there was commitment maybe the 50 grand to bring Gus Macker back and the neighborhood association did a good job to bring it back. That's going to bring thousands of people here. is always popular and you need to find some money especially after you spent I don't know how much in edit money on charity when they get money from Ball Brothers and I didn't even know that's first I heard that Ball Brothers bought drones for the Muny Police Department. I know.

I think that was the issue tonight that we didn't even know. But anyway, um with everything going on and the prices going up, you better be very careful of how you spend our money. Thank you, Mr. Okay. I'm sorry, Mr. U Paul Partisana.

Paul been talking. Good evening everyone. Paul Partisana. I'm a citizen of the universe, more specifically my um got several things to to talk about. The first the ordinance 625 on the transparency. Yes, kudos. Yes, that's yeah, no more said. It's good. Um something else that I I want to bring up and I'm 64. I've lived here all my life, most of my life. And I I know we're in a drought period, but you know, when I drive around, White River is lower than it's ever been this time of year. And I just wonder if there's something we don't know because next time you drive around White River, just take a look. It's low. It's lower than it normally is this time of year. And again, I know we're in a drought, but um it's it's concerning. It's concerning. Um and and the um the resolution 326 sounds great. Kudos to the youngsters who came from Muny Central High School when I was their age. The the teachers all said, you know, you're the leaders of tomorrow. And we thought, "Yeah, right." But um it went long. So So kudos. And I I'm a former teacher. I'm a retired high school teacher. And I'll tell you what, anything that provides a safer atmosphere for kids, I'm all in. So great. And and my last point, I've talked here several times about the former Borg Warner site, and I'd like to thank council member um Garrett for looking into this and moving forward, and the the wheels are turning. So, thank you for that. And hopefully we'll have really good news soon about um how this is going to be a win-win for Muny and Yorktown. And and finally, everyone in this room, we must all hang together. We're going to hang separately. Okay. Thanks.

inside your phone. Mr. Seth, I'll do my Thank you, Mr. Christopher Bilbury. Yeah, really. All right. Hey, stopwatch. Go ahead.

Okay. Uh, thank you for listening to the people. Uh, I I hope maybe this was a lesson uh that the people will stand up and speak. Hopefully from now on you won't have to be beat over the head to do the right thing. Uh, but I don't hold out much hope. I think that uh you probably will have to be uh so just you know I don't know consider it because doing the right thing is not that hard. Um I do want to say uh kind of give a an a word to the council. Just because the council president says this is not a Q&A doesn't mean when your constituents which are your bosses stand up here and ask questions any one of the rest of you if he doesn't want to ask questions you guys are always free to. He doesn't lord over you. you all have the same power. Uh, and uh, I just wanted to kind of give a a a status update because it's something we've been talking about. Uh, I only sent three emails to Council President Jeff Green this time and he finally responded for the first time in 6 years or however long he's been up there. Uh, but we didn't get anywhere on it. Um, he responded and uh, didn't want to take a phone call. And since I guess this is my time to speak and you can't stop me or your question or whatever, I'll say just call me. It's when I give you my number, you don't have to be afraid. Uh stand behind the words you tell me. I I don't always record phone calls, but as a member of media, sometimes I do. So, I guess you just it's like Russian roulette. You pick uh and choose if you call and if I record you. And I guess what I would say is don't tell me lies and you won't have to worry about it. Uh, the other thing I'd like to say is lastly, um, we talked about the reason the rules got changed and all this was because two businesses left. Apparently, I was told that by Republican, uh, chairman Tim Overton and it's apparently it's been asked of the mayor and the mayor said, "No, everything's going great and wonderful." So, my question is, who's lying? Is the

mayor lying? Is Tim Overton lying? Or Tim said that this idea came from Jeff. So, is Jeff lying? Is Tim lying? or is Dan lying? I'd like to get to the bottom of that. You guys might not answer me now, but I think it's something that we need to get to the bottom of. Somebody told a lie and it's been corrected, but I'm still going to be digging into the lie and we're not going to be okay until we figure out was Tim Overton lying, was Dan Rydenower lying, or is Jeff Green lying? Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Mr. Chip Taylor. Thank you.

Been a long meeting, so I'll keep it brief. I originally signed up because I thought I was going to have to make my earlier comments first, but I'll just say first of all, I was remiss in not thanking Councilman Green for changing the public comment rules back. Thank you. That it's I I used to teach public management. I always told my students it's like nothing wrong with trying new stuff.

There's nothing wrong with figuring out maybe the old way of work work too. So I I appreciate you taking a look at that. Um to everybody, thank you. I'm I'm always on on 626. Um I'm always glad to be proven wrong when I'm being pessimistic, right? I'm kind of gloomy Gus, but somebody, you know, I'm glad to be proven proven wrong then. And I also want to say I didn't mention the the addition uh with the in input that came from from the city clerk and her team is good. I' I've had a chance to to work with Belinda and Lacy and and some others there in the office over the last two I guess going on on three years one way or another and they've always I think they're they're dedicated to getting information out to the public, but it's you know it's it's other bodies information that they're they're passing through there. So I'm glad to see you working with them. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Mr. Andrew J. I don't think he's here. Okay. Uh, Miss Ellen Whitehead.

Hi again, Ellen Whitehead. My views do not represent those of my employer. I had originally signed up uh for the public comment portion because I thought it would be at the beginning and I thought it would be my only chance to speak on ordinance 626. So, um, I just want to say thank you for reversing some of the changes to public comment. I really appreciate that we we will have the opportunity to speak on ordinances going up for introduction as well as have an opportunity to speak at the beginning of the meeting. So, I still wanted to take advantage of having my name on the list to come up here and say thank you for that. And, um, thank you all for passing ordinance 626. I promise this will be the last time you will have to hear me up here talking about that. So, thank you.

Okay. Um, Miss Rita Faulner, I think she she's uh Miss Tanya Pearson, I was also you. Okay. Mr. Waynec,

Mr. Bri, you did it again. Man, you said you weren going to change any rules. Then you said no questions. First I've heard of that one. So that's a new rule. So I'll remind you, House Bill 1338 states. No changes can be made or any rules that are made have to be made by the governing body. Not one person can make that rule. So the fact that you say we can't ask questions on public comments, that's never been said before. So if that's a change, the governing body has to do that. That was signed into law March 2024 by Governor Hok. So that's a law. So the fact that you telling me I can't ask questions, it's illegal. That's wrong. You can't make that decision. Uh, the next thing I want to say, I was up here November and I was talking about you guys calling a question. And like I said, you did it again last month. So, let me remind you the rules of calling a question. Calling a question is a motion. So, the fact that you say I want to challenge a question, that's that doesn't make sense. It it's it's it's it's uh it's basically not necessary. So when you call a question, it's a motion. Person has to second the motion. If the motion doesn't get second, calling the calling the question goes away. So if the motion is second, it has to be 2/3 vote for that motion to carry. Six out of nine members have to vote on it. So just for clarification and I said you shouldn't be calling a mo you shouldn't be calling a question in a public setting like this because we

should all have input on anything you guys decide on. So calling a question is I call a question someone has to say I second and then you guys vote on it and it has to carry by at least six six uh two/3 vote six or nine or six people or more. So that's how that works. But once again, it's not fitting for this setting at the city council meeting because when you guys call a question, we have to stop debating and we can't give input on what you guys discuss and that's wrong. Thank you. Thank you.

Miss Kim Woodlaw, Mr. Alec Clubber, I saw him leave. Uh Miss Sarah Vitali left. Uh, Miss Cheryl Swingley. Thank you. Pass. Miss Janetta Presley.

Hi, I'm Janetta Presley and I'm from Muny, Indiana. I would like to talk to you guys about the bill that the Senate um put in for the homeless. Um, so the Indiana General Assembly Senate Bill 285, it they passed it. So it's illegal for homeless people to be on private or public property to camp to um live. Um, the governor hasn't signed it yet, but it is pending to be signed by our governor. And then that's for the whole state of Indiana. I called down in Indianapolis to the state house and asked. So I knew for a fact that I when I came here tonight that that I was reading what I seen on Facebook correctly. So what are we going to do with our homeless people here in Muny? Because they're on White River and they're they're on public property. You know, they sleep everywhere and they can be jailed for that now. And our Delaware County, not only is Muny responsible, but Delaware County also, you know, the police are going to start enforcing it. They're going to have to it it's it's a law. It it's going and it's in effect in Indiana this year. So, what are we going to do? A lot of those folks have money. They just can't find affordable housing. So affordable housing for someone on social security benefits, they get between nine and $1,000 a month. So affordable housing for them is like 500 bucks a month. So they have enough money for everything else they need, which includes public

transportation because most of them don't have cars. So therefore, where are we going to house them? How are we going to find housing for those folks so that they don't get arrested and they don't end up in jail and they don't end up with trespassing charges where they're going to have fines and fees and all of this and then they're just going to be turned loose back to do the same thing because they don't have anywhere to go. You know, I think that we need to go back to the 50s and 60s where we had boarding houses. single people lived in boarding houses and they did well in boarding houses. I I even looked up about boarding houses and you know they were ser they were served breakfast and supper that was part of their payment and then if they wanted a lunch that was extra. So you know we need to come up with something cuz these folks are going to go to jail and I work with these folks and I don't want to see this happen. So, I'm just bringing it to your attention and I don't know what we're going to do. I don't know what the city can do, what our county can do, but we need to do something because this is a law now.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, Mr. Cooper Archer. I've been so much better.

Yeah. So, I also just want to speak about the two resolutions that came up tonight and I just want to say like my really proud of these students. I mean, they came in here did this for a class and they had more statistics, they had more information. They did a survey which is far more than the police department did. Um, and that says a lot because those people are paid. Um, and I don't know. I feel like they left, so I kind of wanted to speak to them, but I mean I mean, if you're coming in with a resolution talking about crime and talking about why we need to spend more money on certain things to stop crime, you should probably have statistics about how that would actually do that about like how actually like like we need this. Um, but yeah, um, that's all I really had to say. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Beth Mesner. And I do believe she left. Miss Mary Moore. She loved. She left. Okay. Uh, Miss Allison Stanton. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Cameron Grubs.

I know I've said a lot tonight. Hard to believe there'd be more. Uh, but the uh I I did have a couple things. First thing is that because the next meeting you have is on April 6th, that April 6th is the deadline for people to register to vote if they want to participate in the uh the primary. So, I want to make sure that people go to indian voters.in.gov uh to register to vote online and get registered before April or by the end of April 6th. Um, I had a question about board appointments and how you do things just to something that could be worked in. But I've noticed that it's kind of like people get chosen beforehand that they were going to get just nominated because you've met them. I would I would like to see some kind of a a a procedure to where like people could turn in like hey we know that the board for this is coming up and you can turn this resume in or come up and present themselves and then you get to pick from those people kind of a thing. the uh um the uh I did have a a request in that I don't know that there's any policy that requires the communications from the city to be to happen within a certain amount of time to the public, but I've submitted app requests back in October. Four things that came up with the budget October and November and have not gotten anything back yet. So, I don't know if that's something that the council can do to kind of uh codify or get with the mayor about like, hey, we're you got like 45 days in order to get back with the the public when they make an APRA.

Um, and then back to what Janetta said on Senate Bill 285, just for clarification. Now, there is some stuff there to where uh the local police must remove people within 48 hours of a warning, but it according to the um uh Indianapolis Star that it outlaws long-term camping on public property like sidewalks, river banks, and bridge underpasses unless that use has been authorized by law. And so, while there can be there can be discretion with law enforcement because they do that all the time with like, oh, that's not enough weed. We're not going to take it. So, they'll do that. There could be discretion, but we could take it off their shoulders theoretically if council were to look into this and see if like maybe we can designate a place that is out of bounds for for that in order to have some kind of protection, take it off of the police shoulders, the responsibility of that like of that conundrum of following the law versus something unethical as jailing the homeless. So, thank you'all.

Thank you, Mr. Jackson Franklin. Okay, Mr. Audi Barber. Oh, stiffening up on me a little bit. Um, Mr. Green, I want to thank you. You've been thanked a lot tonight. And when when when it's time to thank somebody, you know, I thank you for changing the rules back the way they were, the the ordinances or the uh meetings and stuff. And uh one of the points I made a couple months ago was when you change that damn was that three minutes already. I apologize.

I know I'm slow speaking, but okay. I apologize. That would have time.

But that goes back to the point I made a couple months ago that if we are allowed to talk, you know, during and after and everything, we might be able to sway some votes to maybe change people's minds and stuff. And that's what we're here for. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Another thing that uh that's been getting a lot of chat on the uh Facebook and the internet is uh the sewage bill. I don't know if very many people have you been told about it, been brought to your attention or anything, but my sewage bill went from about $28 in January of 23. And I was up here then and I was up here last year and I told you guys, you're raising these bills. It's going to catch up to people. You're raising these bills. There's people on budgets. Guess what? My sewage bill went from $23 a month to $58 a month in less than two years. That's more than double in two years.

Yours did, too. Why Why do we have such a surplus of money setting two doors over here for the sanitation district to have 10 or 15 or 30 million or whatever? I don't know exactly what they got, but even if it's $2 or $3 million surplus, why do we have to charge our customers, our city people, our taxpayers more money for sewage bills when they've got plenty of surplus? Are we doing too much of of the uh separation of the storm and sanitary that uh we're just using too much money on that, giving them too much money? I've been brought it to the attention a couple years ago when they was paying like uh about $12,000 too much to have a sewer manhole put in. Nobody wanted to listen. Now our sewer bills are going up, doubled in most cases and people's really complaining about it and it's hitting people in their wallet. So this year when we pass the budget, we need to make sure our 4% is only 4% because 4% of $30, what about buck 20? Why did it go up so much? We was told 3 or 4%. Why has it doubled in the last two years? Doubled $23 a month to $58. So, we need to look into these things and make sure when they're throwing these numbers out here to you guys that it says 4% increase, but it's not a 40% increase and maybe a typo. So, we need to check into that stuff. That way, we just not sitting up here voting, okay, yeah, we'll vote for this. I know some of you folks work hard on that budget. I know some of you work really hard on the budget. Some of you guys are up just up there to vote. You don't even look at the budget. But we need to uh we need to take that

in consideration and look the budget, make sure the 4% is not 40%. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Damian Jones. Not here. That's the last of the last one. Make a motion. Anything else from council? Need a second. We had a motion. I got motion. All those in favor say I. I. I. Sometimes the bathroom.

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, he did. Are we still Give me strength.