City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, thank you. The back seat. Good evening. Welcome to the February the 2nd, 2026 common council meeting of the Muny Council. We're going to stand for the pledge of allegiance, please. led by Councilman Dale Basher. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. At this time, we'll have the invitation be given by Mr. Macintosh. Let us pray. Gracious heavenly father, thank you for this day, Father God. take us for this evening. We um we just give you the grace and the glory you so deserve. We ask that you bless each and everyone that's here, the homes they represent, Father God, and open up our minds and hearts for the business and transactions that may come forth for this council. And it's in Jesus Christ I pray. Amen. Amen.

We have citizens recognition this month is given by Councilman Brandon Garrett. Uh, this one is kind of special, especially growing up on south side of town. It's kind of a long time coming back, I'd say. Um, and I, uh, I'm going to kind of speak on what it means to me and and, and bring them up and let them speak on how we got to where we were to where we're at now. But, uh, growing up on the south side of town, you, uh, you played at the Raw Center and you would pick your two best friends and your your two best friends was your team and the Gusmacker. That's who you're playing with. No matter what, that's who you're playing with. Um, and it was you you got to go. And then as I got older and got into high school and I wrestled, your your event for the year was to work the Gustmacker. And you always got a nice pair of shoes or something for working the Gus Macker. And as you got older, that's kind of what what you did. You would just always go back to growing the, you know, when the Gusmacker would come to see your buddies play and and their younger brothers and sisters play. Um, it's it's a lot more on the south side of town than just a basketball event that used to come once a year. That's kind of what you you know, as a I come from a a a household where just my dad worked. My mom stayed home with us, my dad worked worked for the parks department. So that was kind of my big look forward to and in and summer was was the Gusmacker was going to the Gusmacker and seeing all my buddies play and getting to play. And we would always I always tell Stephen we'd always try to lose and you'd always want to win lose that first game so you could win that toilet bowl trophy because the toilet bowl trophy was the coolest. It's the

coolest one out out of the Gusmacker. Um and when I heard that was coming back that that's a that's a big win for the city. Um, not to mention all the people that come around to come to the city. But it's just a big win for us that live in the city because that was our uh that was that was big for us on the south side of town. It's big for a city. You know, everybody got to come to the south side of town that weekend instead of, you know, kind of, you know, not, you know, I not as much as what they normally would, but it's uh it's an honor to have it back. Um, it's an honor to know that we have an organization that is fighting to get that back. Um, I am very proud that you fought to get that back. That means a lot more than, you know, than anything is to have that back. And that's really cool. And I know that was not easy. Um, and I'm not going to speak on how that came back or how about that came back. I'm going to let them tell you that we have numerous uh representation from the Southside Neighborhood Association. So, um if you're with the Southside Neighborhood Association, could you please come up and I I can we please give him a round of applause for bringing a monkey. Well, um, a couple years, can you hear me? Um, communication with Gusmacker started two years ago. Um I I know like we said Southside it was such a big deal to have it at Southside High School many years ago and it was there

for quite a few years before they had to stop to do um some renovations on the high school whenever they built onto the gymnasium. Um so it was always a huge deal and like you said all the kids from Ross Center, anybody who played basketball at all showed up. It was a massive event. Um at one point there was even 1,200 teams that um played in it. We're looking to bring back two to 300. We don't want a huge event that's way out of control or anything like that. Um but so uh if you're building your teams, get registered soon, okay? Um and registration is open now. Um, and we are also uh accepting any sponsorships available and I hope obviously the city council is very supportive of this event and I hope to get some volunteers out of them maybe and uh maybe even a team or two. So

let's do you want to Okay. Oh, well I'm I'm Courtney Southside Neighborhood Association. Um, and I'm very excited for this opportunity, not just for us, but for the city as a whole. A lot of people were really sad when the best left about 12 years ago, 15

15. Um, and so we're excited for the opportunity for it to be able to be something back in our community. And so we're looking for not only sponsorship, not only teams, we're looking for the community to come together and help us, not only at the pre-version of this particular tournament, but during the time and the after. Um, so if you or someone you know would be so gracious to volunteer, please reach out to us. We haven't officially opened up the volunteer registration, but we are looking for a ton of people to be able to come out, not only have a good time, but help us make sure that this will come back next year. Steve, Greg, I'll just say that with 200 teams, uh, that's approximately, including the players, uh, and the spectators, almost 10,000 people over the course of that weekend.

I mean, that's that's big. That's, you know, the economic impact for the city and the southside is really big. Um, it's changed a little bit. The the uh it's now about 70% youth groups. So, 70% of the teams are under the age of 18 now.

So, um, that's big and that's what we want. We want a lot of new players. Really, really like if you know kids that want to sign up, please do. Um, and so that's what I got. Can we please stand in uh giving the uh February uh citizen of the month to the Southside Neighbor Association for bringing the Gus Macker back. Okay.

Thank you, Steve. M Mr. President. Mr. President. Yes. Mr. Could I say something?

Yes, sir. I like to uh let people know how appreciative I am of the city's employees on the street department. When we had when we had a snow emergency, they had a big task to uh perform. Um they went into neighborhoods. I don't know how the other districts up here, but the district five was very well taken care of. I I never had the first complaint somebody call me and say, "Hey, my streets are blocked or whatever." And I would like to give them a big thanks. Then I also would like to thank the Muny Police Department for being out there in the subzero weather, you know, when somebody has an accident out there. I know they go through a bunch of trauma, too, with the snowstorms. The Muny firefighters, I'd like to thank them. They had a fire over there on Willard Street in a big in a trailer over there went up. I know they had a tough time fighting it. They was out in the cold and stuff. And um and I would like to thank the EMTs, too, cuz they they was right there with them. And all of our city employees stepped up and kept us all safe while this emergency was around. And I I thank you people.

That's awesome. Yes. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT MONTH'S citizen recognition will be by Sarah Golan. Okay, that brings us to roll call, please. Present present. Macintosh present. Mr. President here Mr. President here here

moving to approval of minutes of last month. So move second. Well I don't know which one got which Mr. Mason seconded by Miss Pal. Okay, we have roll call on that, please. Mr. Yes. Mr. Garrett, yes. Mr. Dishman, yes. Mr. Bash, yes. Macintosh. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Moving on to public comment at this time. Who's first on? Oh, you want to

Yes, Miss Courtourtney. That's page two. Page one. Mr. Richard, the answer, please. Oh, that's my name.

Ricker, news, author, and you got the mic. Oh, that I'm sorry. I don't pay attention. But anyway, I also direct now the latest show in town called Quill and the Quiver. Some of you know because we're testing it right now and it's going to be our new news. But anyway, a couple things. Uh hopefully with Macker coming back, you might want to look in your park plan that I looked at a couple weeks ago and the city committed money because it's going to need there's going to be needing help to fund this with 10,000 people come to town. I know destination monthies have bought in schools bought in and I hope the city will buy into this project too. And as far as follow the money tonight, uh I got a couple other numbers when you consider spending edit money instead of using it to create jobs or have business and industry and giving it to charity. Uh we got the year-end reports for u you know ball brothers and community foundation. Ball brothers gave 8 million. Uh community foundation gave 4 million. So, I don't think you need to use that money for charity. You need to use it. Well, I suppose you could use for public works uh public safety like Jerry said, but I I still don't understand how putting development money in the community or charity is going to help create jobs and bring people here. And in the meantime, hopefully everybody get a chance to speak because it's supported under the constitution. There can't be any law by local or state government that overrules the constitution or the right to people to redress their government. So, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Miss Miss Susan Dylan, Ethics Commission.

Good evening. um Susan Dylan and as the new chair of the Muny Ethics Commission, I wanted to take this opportunity on behalf of the commission to first of all thank you for the opportunity to serve our community in this way. I also publicly wanted to acknowledge and thank Dr. Chip Taylor for the extensive amount of work that he put in to this last year, put into making sure that the commission was up and running. He he is so appreciated in in everything he did behind the scenes. Uh another thing I wanted to mention is I believe that uh that you have received a copy of our annual report and wanted to mention that that is on the ethics portal for public review. Also on the public um of the portal is the uh copy of the ethics ordinance. So we just request if somebody would like to submit a complaint to review the ordinance closely, make sure that it falls within our jurisdiction and then follow the instructions that are on the portal. Another thing we can provide if needed or if it would be helpful would be an advisory opinion. We haven't provided any of those yet, but I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that that is an opportunity um that we could do. Also wanted to call attention to the fact that we have a transparency portal. Now uh what it is is it is a list of the city contracts and those are available for public review. We appreciate uh the hard work of the clerk's office and of the department heads in helping us get that pulled together.

That's wonderful. So in closing, I just want to reiterate thank you for the opportunity to serve in this capacity. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Elizabeth Riddle.

I need to lower this a little. Hello everybody. Uh my name is Elizabeth Riddle. I've been a Muny resident for 23 years and 20 years before that in the county. Um, I urge the council to support ordinance 03-26.

And I would like to say that this should not be an issue of a political philosophy. Having and sticking to a clearly stated procedure for proposing ordinances should uh avoid trouble and benefit everybody. Also, I oppose the proposed changes to the rules for public comment at city council meetings. And although I see a number of problems with the uh proposed comment changes, I'll just mention three here. Uh first I think that uh removing comment from the public for the introduction of an ordinance seems counterproductive for full uh consideration of the issues by the council because useful ideas may come up from um in in such uh comments which may not have been anticipated by the council beforehand. We have a lot of different kinds of people in the community with different ideas. So I think that's good to encourage and they could be incorporated into a proposed ordinance at the outset. And secondly, I think citizens should be able to comment on issues that come up during a council meeting for the same reason. And uh third, uh commenters should not be required to state their home address publicly in a council meeting. that could open them up to harassment by bad actors in the community, in the public, and inhibit freedom of speech. Um, I think, um, I understand why you want to know where commenters live. Um, but I think you could they could give their district and and or zip code. So in short, the entire city council should do everything possible to welcome comments of the citizens of Muny in order to consider a variety of opinions and to encourage

participatory democracy. And thank you for your attention and to the committee the council, sorry, for the complicated work that you do. Thank you. Thank you,

Miss Daisy Dale. Just a moment before before you speak, I would like to make a comment. Uh, and I agree with the not giving of the address. Uh, I think that in the day and age in which we live in today, there are a lot of things that would transpire that should not. So if you would just merely say that you are a citizen of the city of Muny, I think that would suffice. We'd like the citizens to be able to speak. I think that's important. Okay, floor is yours. Thank you. Uh, hi Daisy Dale. Um, thanks for saying that because I don't have an address to give out. Uh, I can give you my social security number if that would

No, no, no,

no. We don't want that either. Um, I'm standing here to address the fact that the last meeting, as soon as Jeff Green became the new president of council, he immediately decided to make six different changes, uh, five, I guess, now, uh, that were all intended to restrict the free speech of members of this audience. I'm speaking as someone who's going to be, uh, who's been going to these meetings for the last two years. Uh, I've had to skip other important things in my life just to be here and to stay involved. Um, I've had to suffer through every decision the council has made since you were all sworn in. uh to mention just half of the changes. Uh one of them being uh members of the council can only speak for two minutes instead of three. Uh two, members of the public cannot uh sign up to speak after the meeting starts. And three uh as you just said has changed. Uh speakers will have to state their home address. Thank you for changing that. Um the decision doesn't come as any surprise. Uh the the serious decision doesn't come as any surprise most people in this room, but it absolutely reflects the members of the council uh that they don't have any conviction what they believe in. Uh even though members of council like Jeff Green could spend their time listing their own districts, uh they'd rather just follow orders and list their own political party. Uh putting those changes aside and forgetting council's lack of care when it comes to parliamentary procedures or transparency, Jeff Green's decision is nothing more than than continuation of vast set of other restrictions um making it harder for residents to get any information from city hall. Just to give recent examples, um any of the recordings uh from the city council meetings from uh the from the middle of 2024 and before then uh have now been erased from online. Um as of right now, the communications director has not given an answer whether or not those recordings are saved anywhere at city hall. It's extremely telling uh that the mayor's uh the mayor's administration doesn't see any value in archiving them. Uh and it's absolutely something that the council should be proactive in in having a say over. I think on top of this, the communications director decided to stop sharing links on social media directing people where to watch any of the meet uh any of the public meetings online. I also want to mention the fact that there have been uh no

major disruptions made at the meeting so far about any audience members and we've seen more chaos come up between our council and the mayor than anything else. Uh yet Jeff Green added that council will quote not put up with language nor attitudes that are uh incorrect and would cause dissension. Uh it's a statement for obvious reasons I think. Uh but it's also massively hypocritical uh considering council wanting to acknowledge a recent statement made by communications director Amber KZ sorry uh Amber Green my bad. Um where she made a lewd sexual joke about transgender people. I think I speak for a vast number of people uh in this room who say that if you um if you guys don't care about professionalism or yourselves for yourselves or anyone in the mayor's office uh none of us should care either. Thank you. Miss Rita, I'm sorry, Falconer. Is that correct? Thank you.

Um, good evening, council members. My topic is the new city council meeting rule. I am concerned about the troubling new meeting rules that discouraged public and democratic participation. Before those new regulations were adopted, there needed to be public comment and a vote by the council for a resolution or ordinance laying them out. First, I'm offended by your authoritarian attitude, authoritarian attitude, Council President Green. As you can surmise, I am bothered by the notion of policing attitude. How can you determine what is an attitude undeserving of free speech? Whose or what attitudes will be censored? What standards would be fair and just? Second, I'm in favor of civility, so I would not mind a prohibition on foul language. I have been shocked and disappointed by the examples of incivility given to the American people since 2015 or 2016. Third, the new timing of comments is totally out of whack. Public comments should come at the end of the meeting so residents can comment on what took place during the meeting. Fourth, a twominut limit on public comments is too short to develop some points. The threeinut limit should be maintained. Fifth, as regards no comments on ordinance being introduced, it makes no sense. As Councilwoman Powell pointed out at last month's meeting, the public should have input on proposed ordinances before the last minute so that council members can consider their feedback when they vote on whether to introduce an ordinance. and if it is introduced over the next month before the council votes on whether to pass it. In addition, the

public should have the opportunity to comment on resolutions before they are passed. Thank you, council members, for your careful consideration of these remarks. I will email them to you so that you can fully understand them since I had to talk so fast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Miss Ellen Whitehead.

Hi, my name is Ellen Whitehead. I am a Mensy resident and my views do not represent those of my employer. I'm speaking today to urge you to reconsider the new rules for public comment at council meetings that were introduced in January. I want to begin by thanking Council President Green by already removing the requirement to give one's address, which was one of my concerns coming into this meeting. I want to also urge you to reconsider the changes to when residents are allowed to speak, specifically moving public comment to the beginning of the meeting and eliminating opportunities to comment on ordinances when they are introduced. I want to especially emphasize that I believe these rules will make meetings more confusing, disorganized, and inefficient. For example, if people know that they cannot comment at the end of meetings, they may try to raise issues throughout the meeting, even when they don't align with the agenda item at hand. Further, if there is no opportunity to comment when ordinances go up for introduction, I think that people will look for other moments to give feedback, including during unrelated discussions. I want to highlight that we already saw some signs of this at the January meeting as speakers began to try and navigate what they could say and when even though these rules had not even yet formally taken effect. Overall, I worry these changes will increase confusion and inefficiency at council meetings. Thank you in advance for considering these concerns.

Thank you. Thank you,

Alexer. Good evening, council. Uh, Alex Clubber. I live in uh I'm a resident. Um, I and my views do not express those of my employer. I applaud you for reconsidering the address issue and I respectfully ask that you also consider to keep public comment at the end of the meeting and allow the three minutes per speaker. I just want to say it goes without saying um if individuals have to speak at the beginning of the meeting they won't be aware of any information shared during the meeting right and that could be relevant to their remarks so I think it puts the public at an information disadvantage and it could make the whole process less effective um whereas having public comment at the end of the meeting I think it makes it possible to have a more uh productive interchange also say many members of the public may be coming from work or their obligations. I think attending the meeting may be one of the few times they have to sit and think about some of these issues that come before council and I think they should have just uh as much opportunity to participate meaningfully in the process. So I ask uh consider keeping public comment at the end and also on the introduction of ordinances uh just to give the public the most opportunities to provide input and participate. And then I'll just also say um if you have a chance to interact with any folks on any of the numerous boards or commissions to encourage them to make an effort this year to make sure all their agendas and meeting minutes are posted online. So thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm sorry if I mispronounced the last name. Jerry White or Wyatt. I apologize. Wait, I apologize. Thank you.

Okay. Well, I'm Jerry White. I live in district five. Uh, thank you for the change on the address thing. That was my principal complaint and serious one. I don't want to give my address to basically Republican uh group that has MAGA followers. just don't want to do that. Uh but I am concerned about the changes in the meetings and I do feel it was authoritarian in the way that it was done. Um but the two-minute rule is not enough. It we need a little more time when we can comment. Uh it needs to be later in the meeting on stuff that's been introduced. So there may be two comment times in the meeting. I'm not sure how to do that, but um we need to we need to get as much public comment and as much public participation as we possibly can in what you do. Uh, I think the council does overall an excellent job and um I really appreciate the fact that you are considering what we have to say about the presentation rule. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you,

Mr. Waynecape. Waynecape. First of all, I don't like any of the changes, just to be blunt. Um, civility, formal politeness, and courtesy in behavior or speech. You stated that we'll conduct ourselves in a civil manner. But being univilized doesn't just come in the form of anger or outrage. Can also come in the form of laughter, giggling, which I see a lot going on up at the council up at between your council members. Uh snickering, even your body movements when you show a lack of care or concern when someone is speaking that you don't agree with. Shifting, rolling your eyes, that's being univil. Um, emotions run high in these meetings. So whether you laugh, frown, or give an angry outburst, it can also be described as being univil. But not one elected official has the right to decide which definition of civility that he or she wants to follow just because it fits his narrative. I believe that's wrong. I believe it's unnecessary. Um, and just to say talk about the profanity. I don't I've been coming to these these meetings and you can't just use that excuse because you said some people are using profanity because it doesn't happen. But I think that was just an excuse. But anyway, so let me go on to the next one. Um, not being able to speak during the introduction of resolutions. I mean introduction of ordinances as Miss Pal already pointed out.

Chief Sloan got up here and spoke and asked for y'all to um what word am I looking for? Suspend the rules because he spoke during the introduction of an ordinance. Y'all did it. And Miss Selvi was the one that made the motion, but I didn't hear her say anything about let's reconsider. Miss Pal was the only one that objected out of all you council members to the rules and and I thank her for that. Uh Mr. Green, you even say that you would have liked to heard from some of the kids doing the introduction. So if you do away with that, you contradicted yourself by saying you wanted to hear from the kids. and everyone who voted to suspend these rules on the orders, but only one person objected to silencing the public during the introduction. I think all these need to be reconsidered because I went to every forum debate that you guys had to get these positions and we listen. Now it's your turn to listen to us. So, I hope this these changes don't go into effect. I see they're doing tonight, but this needs to be reconsidered. And I think every one of you other councilman should be saying something to him because it's not fair to the people that elect. Thank you. Miss Melinda Missio, please. Hello. Thank you all for being here. Um Melinda Missino. My positions do not reflect those of my employer. I would like to publicly thank the AEW, the League of Women Voters, and the Committee of Experienced Educators for hosting a very important education event this weekend. I want to also publicly thank uh uh Representative Selvi, Golian, and Pal for their presence there. I'd love to see a show of hands in the room who also

was at the educational event today. I know a lot of you were there um at Moms. How many of you were there at the event? A couple of people were there. So, very good. Thank you for showing up. really important information shared about our educational system here in the state of Indiana and it will have definite effects on uh our city and our community. I'd also like to announce that this Saturday is the Black History Month kickoff event at Minatrista and with appreciation, Mayor Rhinower will be giving um a proclamation at that event. So, thank you for participating in Black History Month kickoff event. In terms of the conversation around the um new rules, I want to amplify those comments made by um my neighbors prior. I'd also like to ask the question as we consider these, what is the problem that we're trying to solve as we define the problem that will also define our solution. I appreciate uh green that you've already thought of how this impact has helped you make decisions. So, I hope you'll continue that conversation. Um, I believe that, um, having feedback prior has helped us make better decisions. I recognize you're all very, very busy people with lots of things going on. This time together helps give you feedback that I know in other contexts might be hard to get. So, thank you all for your time and your consideration and for already making movement on changing these roles.

Thank you, Miss Beth Mesner. Good evening. Thank you all. Um, my name is Beth Mesner. I am a resident of the city of Muny and the views I express are not those representative of my employer. I'm here to also uh encourage that the threeminut rule and comments placed at the end of our meeting be retained. Um, I think what we all agree to is that freedom of expression is at the heart of a participant democracy. It's what's necessary for a healthy and functioning republic. Um, the rules, as I understand them, will silence public voices, which is not something that we want to be encouraging if we are indeed champions of freedom of expression. Emotions run high at these meetings because people care.

They care a lot. And some people express their concern and their passion more dramatically than others. But the one thing that should never be questioned is people's interest, their need to be engaged, their desire to be engaged, and their concern for the well-being of our community. Citizens voices matter. They bring substantive ideas to the room. They encourage robust conversation about important issues and they help us better understand the advantages and disadvantages of public policy that you are deliberating over. The rules that we pose for these meetings should widen not restrict public input. I understand the importance of efficiency, but I do ask efficiency at what cost. Thank you.

Thank you,

Mr. Christopher Bilbury.

Uh, good evening. My name is Christopher Bilbury and while I I don't agree with this and I won't ever do it again, I will never do this again. I am not a citizen of Muny. I live a mile outside of the city of Muny. Most of my life is conducted in the city of Muny. I pay a hell of a lot of taxes here just like everybody else. The fact that the city of Muny is the county seat. I feel like the government here uh affects a lot of what I do. And I don't care if I was coming from Chishamingo or Seattle. This is America. You guys have first amendments here. We would be able to speak. You will not be able to stop us from speaking whether we give address or not. And whether I live in Muny or not, I will always come here and I will speak without giving my address. Okay. Um the day after the meeting last time I was contacted by the Republican party chairman and he tried selling me on why these ideas were changing and what was bizarre about this was I was hearing from the Republican party chairman. Now I'm a conservative and I guarantee you and you will not believe this and there will be people that will laugh and scoff but I am more of a conservative than any of the Republicans sitting on the dis and I am fighting and standing with those that are liberals and and Democrats in in condemning you for these rules changes. I was told by the Republican party chairman, maybe I should be nicer and maybe I should try emailing the party chairman uh or the excuse me, the the president. And I laughed in our phone call because I've been emailing you, sir, since you've been up there. Here are five examples of emails. I didn't cuss you. I wasn't rude. And you haven't answered a damn one of these. I would like to know why. Can you answer why you don't respond? When I say to you, how can we meet in the middle and move forward? Good

morning, Mr. President. Can you can you could I have a couple of qu I have a couple of questions about city council and I'm hoping to hear back from you so we can set up a conversation so I could ask you a few questions and hopefully get some answers. Could you please respond? I hope you have a good day. Can you tell me how I've been rude in these emails that you refuse to respond? Or are you just going to sit there like a bump on the log like you have for the last four years? Okay, you're you're pathetic setting up there. You do not serve the people. And I want to be very clear. My thoughts are are are uh responsive of the uh your employers. Okay? Your employers feel the same way. That's the public. I just don't understand what you guys are doing. Why don't we meet the public where they are and we have public concern at the front and at the back. That way, if people want to come here, they can speak and leave if they so choose. The people who hear something that's going on in the meeting, they can speak at the end. It would be great if you would start to meet the public where they are. Wouldn't that be fantastic? That's what you're elected to do. Also, House Bill 1338, which discussed decorum, it was in 2024 that was voted on down at the House, stated that if you guys were going to set up rules that you needed to vote on these rules and you needed to post them on the door and you vote, you you uh made these rules up last time. Uh I guess without anybody else's input, you guys didn't vote on these. And so I would say that the rules don't go in effect until you do that. Uh if you want to look at House Bill, it's uh 1338. It went in law last year. I don't agree with it, but if you're going to try to violate our rights and be authoritarian, you might at least follow the rules that have been put in place for you guys. Um lastly,

let me see here. I think that's pretty much it. I guess I would just like to say in passing that I would really appreciate if you could start responding to emails and I'm give you just a second because I would like I would like an answer. Oh, hold on. Someone's thinking I think she needs to be with Mr. President. May I ask a question of the commenter? Supposed to be public comment. You just we're listening to what he has to say. She can ask me a question. Is it okay with you? Sure. Okay. Ask him a question. A point of clarity, M. The Republican party chair called you to explain the rules.

Yep. Uh and he told me that the rules were changing because the um there had been a couple of businesses, one or two or three businesses in the city of my over the last couple of years had either packed up and left or refused to come to Muny because of the chaos and disorder in the meetings. and I pushed back on the party chairman and I said, "Well, if we've seen any chaos, it's come from the council."

I I haven't seen chaos from here. I I when you guys talk about chaos and you're trying to uh correct people's behaviors, I don't know whose behaviors you're trying to correct. And and first of all, I would say correct your own before you try correcting ours. That's the biggest issue. I did try reaching out to the mayor. I tried reaching it back out to the party chairman. And I think I tried reaching out to you sir and asking if you were aware of what these businesses were, what meetings they were specifically talking about because I would like to went back and watched them and I would like to have seen because I guarantee you the disorder would have came from the the dis. I have one follow-up question, Mr. President. Yes, ma'am. No more no more questions. Thank you for your comments, sir. We appreciate it very much.

So, you're not going to answer why you don't email Mr. President Who's next? Am I not allowed to talk with you after the meeting? You will talk with me after the meeting. A point of clarity. She She can ask a point of clarity. That's fine. You say she could or she couldn't. I say she could. Oh, okay. My guess my question is to to you, sir. To me. No.

Yes. Well, to you, but I guess for to follow up, why if that's the reasoning, why I That's the first I've heard of the fact that we've lost businesses because of council meetings. And so my question is number one, why is this being discussed with Republican party chairman and you and not with the rest of the council members? And to that might be a question for that might be a question for you, mayor, because I I would like some clarification there. I would like to know who we've lost and and what they've cited and what meetings they're discussing and why you discuss this with the Republican party chairman as opposed to the council who is supposedly responsible. So, if we could schedule a meeting with council, even an executive session to discuss those things, I think that would be in order.

Council, thank you. I'll be waiting for you when you're done. And and the only thing is I'm going to record that conversation because I want everybody to be able to hear it. So, just FYI. Okay. Next,

I'm sorry if I mispronounce or misay the name. Stanley Bostik. Mr. Stanley or Miss Stanley Bostic. Thank you. Good evening, council. Well, many of you guys know me and you know my name is not Stanley Bosage. It's one of the aliases I use from time to time. I wasn't willing this evening to forfeit my first amendment right to freedom of speech, nor my Fourth Amendment right to illegal search and seizure. Uh, but I will willingly give my name as Ryan Webb. And I'm here this evening to really object to the decisions that was made at the last meeting with the public comment. Listen, uh, I know public comment can get testy sometimes. It can be uncomfortable, but that's part of the game. That's that's what we sign up to do when you when you run for office. And most of the time, you're not getting out of voice. It's usually people, you know, reaming you and telling you how horrible you are and what you did wrong and um but it's necessary. It's necessary to keep us grounded. I know some of you are active on social media, but I know a few of you who are ghosts on social media. So, this is really the only opportunity for for many of these folks uh to be able to interact with you. Um so, I think it's important that they get that opportunity. I would say that I think you should and and I I I want to say President Green, I applaud you. You show you're a person of reason by reconsidering the address thing tonight. I think that's wonderful and I hope that after these comments here this evening that you guys will all come together and come up with something a little bit more reasonable. I want to make a a quick suggestion and I think is a great model is what the Delaware County Council does. They have a list as well, but it's only to reserve your place in line. They put the first name on. It's for the it's

for people to save their place in line. And at the end of all the public comment, the president says, "Is there anyone else who would like to speak?" That takes care of anyone who comes in the door late, anyone who didn't want to give their name. Um, but it gives everyone an opportunity without necessarily forcing them to give up their identity by the local government when they haven't committed a crime. You got to look at from that perspective. There's been several councils that have went down this road and it never ends well. Like even tonight, you guys are doing way too many good things with the council, with the administration to have this unforced air. You're opening the door for criticism and conflict. It's unnecessary. Look, I I'm a Republican. I don't like giving lefties any ammunition. And you're giving them ammunition. I would I would hope you would reconsider this and um meet the people where they are. None of you have ever taken as much heat in those seats as I did when I was an elected official. And that's just part of the game. So ask you to consider reconsider. Thank you so much.

Miss Lynn Thornberg, please.

Lynn Thornberg. Been a resident of the city of Muny for in my eighth decade. been at this podium here and back when it was on Jackson Street bringing up things in my neighborhood, telling good news, bad news, raising questions. This is where it's supposed to be. When I go to different uh gatherings where they're training neighborhood association people, they say, "Go to your council meetings, raise issues, find out." So, this would limit that. I mean, so they'll have to try do all their training over again. Um I want to um again reiterate what everybody said about if you come at the end I mean there's no input. Why do you have sometimes have public hearings for public input? So each meeting is a public meeting, a public hearing and to me I would welcome the input and like uh finding out about the businesses that well what caused that? I mean, maybe if the businesses or the administration or whoever met with affected parties, the neighborhood association or the neighbors, you know, ahead of time and started trying to figure out work things out, then maybe it wouldn't be like, "Oh my gosh, you're going to put that in my backyard, you know. I mean, I'm just saying these are ways that we can bring our concerns." And I've lived this for five decades, you know. And um the other thing um oh we tell people to come to city council to give input. So there might be people sitting here that want to talk and it might just be nobody ever plows my you know or there's junk cars. I mean what what's there now? What's their avenue that will they have to come at the beginning and raise that and then you guys will have to stop and think

about that or will you just write it down and say somebody said that? that I can't believe that such a variety of of of conservative liberals, rights, left, blue, red, have been up here to raise these same issues. So listen to our voices, please. Thank you. Thank you, Paul Bartis. Zena,

she's a she is. I get it honest. Good evening. Paul Partisana, citizen of Muny, and I'm here tonight to talk about Oh, I can do this. I'm here to talk about win-win. Um, last meeting I asked about the former Borg Warner site. I I brought that up and I I did a Google search and um it was sold to a gentleman by the name of Jim Wallace in 2017. That's the latest I got. It's the Jim Wallace company. and now it's it's co-owned by institutional investors. And so I don't that's about all I've got is there's, you know, there's a company and there's some investors that have it. And I'm here to ask for your help. If anybody knows a way that we as citizens can have agency and voice in this, I'd be happy to contact people to get the ball rolling because I want it to look when we go to Yorktown and we come into Muny on 32. There is no reason why it cannot look like Pendleton, Noblesville, Fisers or Caramel. Okay, it would be win-win for this. And so if anybody here finds out how we contact and how we get things started, let us know. social media or the Muny Star Press because I'd be really really happy to um to get the ball rolling on that one for the year 2026. And the next thing I'd like to talk about is transparency. When we have democratic participation, free expression, and transparency, everybody wins. And so I'm urging you to please adopt ordinance 326 tonight, okay? Or whenever you whenever it comes up for an adoption. Okay? And I just want to leave us with this. Everybody in this room, um, let's all get better than who we already are. Okay. Thank you,

Miss Mary Moore, please.

My name is Mary Moore. I live in uh precinct one, which is district three, and I'd like to make sure that everyone knows that my comments are my own and not my employers. Um I'd like to thank the council tonight for clarifying that public comment now requires advanced um clairvoyance. Uh since comments are limited to two minutes at the very beginning of the meeting, um and ordinances or resolutions that are up for introduction will not have their own comment portions, residents are apparently expected to know before the meeting starts their own comments. Unfortunately, my crystal ball is in the shop. So instead, I'll rely on the next best thing, which is past meetings. Based on those, I can reasonably predict that some of us will leave here tonight with questions that we were not allowed to ask about process or timing or maybe even community impact. And we will be told to bring those questions back next month. Clearly, after the decisions of the council are most likely already made, the council, well, more fitting, the council's president, Jeffrey Green, declared his declaration treats public comment like feedback on a final paper rather than a draft. When items are introduced, that's the moment when questions or concerns or missing information should be considered. Waiting until the vote meeting means the feedback arrives when those margins are already closed. Public comment works best when it is responsive, not prophetic. Right now, participation is being treated like fortunetelling rather than civic engagement. And while I'm happy to wait until next month, I'd prefer not to need a crystal ball to participate in my own local government. Thank you.

MISS COURTNEY MARSH.

It is cold underneath here. Really cold. Good evening, council. My name is Courtney Marsh. I live within the city town. Um, I come to you today with a question. It's a question that we're going to talk about tonight, referring to ordinance 1-26. Um, when the mayor announced the information at the last city council meeting, there was a list, if you will, of places that that edit money was going to be going. And not that I agree with every portion of it, but I'm excited for some of it. On one of those lines, it listed the community center that is currently forming a board. Um, and beside that it said TBD. I'm not sure what that means. Other people in the community might not know what that means either. To be determined is what I assume it means. Um, and I'd like to know why. Why is TBD next to community center, but it's not next to any of the other items. They talk about giving money out to different organizations and entities. And again, I'm supporting of most of those. I just have a question on why that particular line item. So, sorry, uh why that particular line item had a TBD at the end. And since the ordinance is on the list tonight to be spoken about, I'd really appreciate if one of you would be able to ask that or for the mayor to address it when he comes up to speak. That is all for now. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Miss Janetta Presley.

Hi, I'm Janetta Presley and I live in Muny in the Thomas Park Avenue area. I'm here about a program that your city has called critical home repairs. So, they put a furnace in my house trailer two years ago, and that um furnace um almost burnt my trailer down today. Um so, I had called um it went out. The furnace went out. I called up to Miss Cheeseman's office to talk to them about the warranty on it, and I never got her. But I did get someone from her office. They said there was no warranty on the furnace, that they did not purchase warranties on those furnaces when they got them to have them put in, that it would be at my uh I would have to pay to have it looked at and worked on. So, I contacted the company that put it in for the city, and they told me the same thing. She said the city did not get um any warranty on the furnace or parts or labor or anything. They wanted $250 to come out and look at it and then um it would be Thursday before they could even get it fixed. As you all know, I am a hospice patient and um I can't do without a furnace. Um, so I went uh above and beyond and um Mike Martin helped me find someone to come out. Uh uh uh Summers Heating and Cooling came out. Um they charged me $98 to look at it and when he pulled it apart, he was appalled. He said it was not put together correctly. He said that it was lucky that it hadn't burnt my trailer down sooner. And I will have this all in a letter from uh

Summer's Heating and Cooling. Uh they're gonna mail it to me, they said. Um so they had to fix it. So he fixed it. It cost me $419. Um but they gave me a discount because I was on hospice and my partner is a veteran. And so they gave us a discount. It would have been like over $800 to fix this furnace that should have been under some kind of warranty with this program that it came from. He asked me for the booklet to the furnace. I gave it to him. He opened it up and he could see where someone had tore out the warranty for the furnace that was in the booklet. But I hadn't done that. I had just put the booklet up when they gave it to me. So, um, somebody had taken that out and so that furnace had no warranty on it. What whatsoever. So, if my furnace doesn't have a warranty on it, how many other furnaces that have been put in by this program doesn't have a warranty on it. And this is just our second year using this furnace.

May I Mr. President. Yes. Go ahead. Uh when they when you said appalled appalled probably because it was not put in up to code. Correct. Yes. They they said that it was not put in up to code. And if I and when they put it in like no one came out from the city inspector's office and inspected it. Not one. Not anybody. Nobody came and inspected it. Um I can tell you the company that put it in but what's you want to know? Yeah. Uh, comfort heating. Okay. And you said this is a 2-year. This is your second winter. Yes.

Running the furnace. Yes. Okay. Do you have could you give me the or could I see what Comfort Air gave to you versus this this furnace that that they that they inspected that was in your home? Now, I'm not understanding. Well, when Comfort Air came out Yes. or uh summer came out to to show you and give you um what they had to fix. Could I see what they had to fix? Yeah, it was like your invoice. Yeah, it was the igniter. Okay.

So, and the igniter has these two little wires that come out and those wires actually was touching the heating element and they burnt in half. So they were piggybacked and they burnt down and he said that we were lucky that they stopped and it just didn't take the whole trailer. Yeah, we uh a after a after this let's have a conversation because this is uh this is not up to our city code at all. Thank you. Let's me and you please have a conversation after this. This is my wheelhouse. Please. Okay. Y that's fine. I just wanted to let you know that that that the furnace did not have any warranties.

Yeah. Well, two it should you shouldn't even you should not have to worry about a warranty with a 2-year-old furnace like that. That's just plain and simple. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Wait. Yes. I have a question. Go ahead. I have never heard of critical critical home repairs program. What's that? Has anybody on this council heard? I have not. What is critical home repairs? So it's through home savers community development. Community development. Mhm. Because because and it's looked into it. So that's the name of the program. Yeah. Yes. And how did you apply for it? How did you find out? I applied for it here at the city hall. Thank you. Thank you.

Good questions. Have you? Okay. I'm sorry. Um,

Mr. Joseph Sza. Hello, my name is Joseph Souza. I'm a recent graduate at Ball State University, majored here in political science. I just came back from test uh giving testimony at the state house over SB72. I won't get into the specifics of the bill. Tony Skinner was the county sheriff was there advocating for it. But I I wanted to mention that it's more difficult now to sign up for this city council to give public comment than it was for me to go to an Indiana House Judiciary Committee meeting and give testimony. And that is absolutely ludicrous. Um they have a public and an online portal, right? That's just one thing to start out with. But if uh to remind everyone the rules that this so-called president tried to pass before the council, um members of the public can only speak for two minutes instead of three. Ordinances up for introduction will not have their own comment portions. No members of the public can sign up to speak after the meeting starts. Public comments will take place at the start of meetings instead of the end. And council quote will not put up with language nor attitudes that are incorrect. or cause dissension. Six, which was changed immediately, speakers will have to state their home address while at the podium. I think what's scary to me is that those words can come out of your mouth during a public meeting and no one around you, not enough people around you tell you how utterly ridiculous that is for people to come before this meeting and

have to give their entire home address to speak with you. I'm not telling you to change it. What I'm telling you is that if you implement those rules as they're stated, you don't need a law degree. You don't need a suit and tie. You don't need to be a genius to know it's unconstitutional. It's illegal. And it's going to get you sued.

Miss Chelsea McDonald. McDaniel. I apologize. McDonald. McDonald. Thank you.

Good evening. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. Thank you everybody for being here. I want to say that I agree with all the comments from people who have come up here and disagreed with the new rules about what we can do and say in this council meeting. I'm going to actually say something a little bit different though. Um I look around this room and I see a lot of people who would rather be home. This has been a long night already. I don't know if you were expecting this, President Green, but um it's been a long night already and I'd like to be home. I know a lot of people here would like to be home. I usually listen from home, but I had to come tonight because what is happening is just so absolutely ridiculous. We wouldn't have to sit here for this long listening to these people come up and talk to you about this if you didn't do it in the first place. I also think that you already know this, but I'm going to say it for everybody else in this room, and I implore you to do your due diligence in looking at the laws of this land. I am a Muny resident, and I am also a citizen of the United States of America and these rules are illegal. You know it. Thank you. Preston isn't

um I'm sorry. Preston is it? I don't know. Mr. Preston home. It was written in cursive Preston K. I'm not speaking. Okay. So, did I say your name correctly? Where's Mr. Preston? Yeah. Okay. Okay. doesn't want to speak. Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Jackson Franklin. Where's

Hello everybody. My name is Jackson Franklin. I live here in Muny in the in District 3. I'm a combat medic in the Indiana Army National Guard and a paramedic, but my views are my own, of course. Firstly, I didn't come up here to talk about this part, but I'm curious why the doors were locked shut because there's been a few times where us in the public have had to let our fellow members of the public back in. I don't think that's usual because I think that should be open for people to come in this meeting. I'm sure many they're Yeah, yeah, I let him back. I had to walk out there. Yeah, it's a closed door and it's supposed to be like open to the public. So, I just wanted to that's not what I'm mainly here for, but it's something I noticed on the way. Just look into that, please. Um, but I am here today to oppose the new uh restrictions on public comment recently implemented by the council president Jeff Green. Removing public comment for the introduction of an ordinance. Also, this thing is way too short. Anyways, like removing public comment for the introduction of an ordinance will remove the chance of uh for residents to raise important information or concerns early in the process. It also prevents public comment that could justifiably expedite the adoption of ordinances for important matters. I urge Council President Green and members of this body to please reconsider these new rules. I think it'd be good to have public comment at both the beginning and end at the very least. And yes, for at least 3 minutes, not 2 minutes, cuz that's just way too short. Public comment is not a nuisance. It is not a procedural obstacle. It is not something to be minimized or avoided. Public comment is democracy in action. City government exists to serve the people who live here, work here, raise families here, and invest their lives in this community. When residents come to speak, they're not wasting time. They are offering lived experience, expertise, and perspectives that

government officials simply cannot have on their own. Many of us cannot attend every meeting. Many people work nights, multiple jobs, or have child care responsibilities. When residents do show up, it's because something deeply matters to them. Removing opportunities to speak sends a message that convenience is being placed above community input. Freedom of speech is not only a national value. It must be practiced and enforced locally. The First Amendment is not just about protecting speech from federal interference. It's about ensuring that government at every level remains open and accountable to the people. On top of that, as others have mentioned, public comment is often messy. It can be emotional. Sometimes it is critical. But democracy is not supposed to be tidy. It's supposed to be open. It's supposed to allow disagreement. That is how better decisions are made. So making rules for us the public to be civil uh in the council uh in their speaking while many actions taken by the council is as my friend said is as a slippery slope into other word pleasing. What happens if what you see as uncivil is seen as the just the honest truth truth by most of us in the community? What if critique against our city council actions are seen as offensive? What if we see your actions and your votes as univil or offensive? That wouldn't be quite fair. I I urge you to reconsider these restrictions. On top of that, sometimes uh public comment improves policy. Residents point out unintended consequences. They highlight overlooked communities. They provide data, personal stories, and practical solutions. cutting off public comment risk passing policies without fully understanding their impact on us the public. I'm getting close to ending, I promise. Um, this chamber should be a place where

residents feel welcomed, not discouraged, where participation is, you know, not restricted, where disagreement is heard, not avoided. There's also one more another important point. Trust in government is already, as you guys know, very fragile. Many people feel disconnected from their politics and they feel left out of the system. When opportunities to participate are reduced, it only deepens the feelings that decisions are made without the people instead of with them. This is a collaborative effort between the council and the public. We should work together in these goals. We should be doing the opposite of what we're of the direction we are heading. We should be making it easier to speak, easier to attend. As my friend Joe said, like there's online sessions at the state house. You can sign up to speak there. It's full display. Expanding asset access builds trust and restricting access weakens it. So tonight, I ask council leadership along with other city councilors to please reconsider these restrictions and restore meaningful opportunities for public input. Not just for those in this room, but for all residents who want their voices heard because this city belongs to us, the people, and the people deserve a seat at the table. Lastly, I urge the city council to make efforts to get ice out of Muny and to keep our community safe. Thank you,

Mr. Julian Franklin.

You're not seeing double, I promise. So, I had a longer My name is Julian Franklin. I'm a, you know, live here in Muny. I had a longer speech, but I think the point has been made, Mr. President. So, I'll keep it real short. Uh, my views do not reflect those of my employers. I oppose the new restrictions on public comment recently implemented by the council. Uh removing public comment in the introduction of the ordinance will remove the chance for residents to raise important information and concerns early in the process. It will also prevent public comment that could easily and justifiably expedite the adaptation of ordinance for the important matters. I urge the council uh and President Green to reconsider these new rules. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Cameron Grubs. I need to sign up, please. I'm running late. I just got in from work and I'd like to sign up. I'll let you speak. Go right in. I'm going to let him. Evening council Cameron Grubs. Uh my citizen. Uh who'd have thought that you'd all had me agreeing with Ryan Webb tonight. Uh

so, uh I do want to appreciate that you had made the the change to the uh to the address. Yeah. Um I just want to make sure that uh everyone knows Friday, February 6 at noon is the deadline to file for office with the Delaware County Clerk's Office. I'd encourage anyone interested in making things better, regardless of party, to run for an office. Positions like those with the county council, the county auditor and assessor are some of those among others at state and party levels that are open. I encourage everyone to step up if you're tired of seeing the same names on the ballot. I realize it takes a great deal of bravery to put yourself out there. Speaking of bravery, I have to commend Council President Green. The bravery it takes to make unilateral changes that completely disregard the public's voice, with no input from anyone, with no discussion, moving public comments to the front so the public can't challenge information or provide insights or concerns to council before the second reading. It is remarkably brave of you. Perhaps a fellow Republican can put forth a statement stating how the council under your leadership will not be bothered to uphold the promises or operate in ways that serve my resolutions becoming empty words and transparency and accessibility non-existent. I cannot speak for everyone here or those watching, but I for one am tired of the same minimal effort day in and day out from elected officials. I'm talking beyond this council. This applies to the whole of the county. Today is Groundhog Day. It doesn't mean that we have to live the same each and every day. We the people of Muny and Delaware County have to live with the same level of ineffective leadership that doesn't even qualify for mediocrity. We should not have to put up with office holders who will not engage with the public or share details or impacts of proposals and decisions. We should have leaders that get up each and every day asking how they can do better than the day before. leaders who are willing to stand up and actually defend those they serve individually or collectively as a

body, even if that means putting us at odds with other levels of government. This is how we've always done things doesn't work when the way we've always done things prevents the people of Munier, Delaware County from benefiting. Muny deserves better leaders. Muny deserves leaders who listen and my deserves better than the bare minimum. Thank you. Hello. Everybody knows me. I'm Audi. Um, I come in, the doors are locked, so this is an illegal meeting at this point. Um, I came in late, had to sign up late, and you have let me spoke. So, you broke a couple points of your own rules already. First of all, you are the president of the council, not the king. Just remember that. You should make every one of these folks up here vote whether to accept this new change

or leave it the way it was. You are not a king. We don't elect presidents to become kings. Okay. Second of all, I just got in from work. You allowed me to speak up here after you've done broke your own rules because you know the consequences that you'll pay if you try to shut me up. You're trying to shut these people here up.

Okay. You're trying to shut us all up. We're an hour and 15 minutes into this meeting. Do you think public comment would have lasted that long at night? Had you have changed it? You may get four, five, maybe eight people, maybe 10 people at 30 minutes. You're an hour and 15 minutes into this already and we ain't even talked um anything to do with

business of the city of Muny. And if you think you're shortening in the meetings, this is going to be like this every month until you get it changed back. If we have to give up our time to come in here to prove a point, these folks will do it. They're here tonight. They'll be here next month. You have a twominute limit. Although there's a lot of them that's already went over the two minutes. That's rule number two that two that you've broke. So, let's just throw this damn rule out and start all over and put it back the way it was because anytime the council has changed any rules, the council has voted on it. They changed the time three years ago. Guess what? The council voted on it. Anytime you're not you're not just because you're the president of the council does not give you the big head of power. Okay?

You are not Hitler. I hope you're a god-fearing gentleman that you say you are.

And realize these people are very upset with this rule change. You've got people out here you've never seen in here before because of this rule change. And if you change the public comment to the front, then you're not going to get the input on some of these ordinances and and stuff that you're passing and get these council members to change their mind because there's constituents are out here telling them, "Hey, we don't want that." And Miss Pal knows, Mr. Dishman knows, everybody up there knows that this council has been changed their minds a few times because of public input.

It has happened. And I hope and pray that you see that there is a need for the rule change to be changed back because of all these people that are here tonight that are out speaking on this. You're, like I said, you're an hour and 20 minutes into the meeting already. So, I'm hoping you realize, hey, you messed up. Please forgive me and let's change it back to the way it was. Thank you. Can we get the doors unlocked?

Mr. President, can we get the doors unlocked? I assume we have an officer that'll handle that. I don't have the the wherewithal to do that. You're in charge. It's being addressed as we speak. Moving on to appointments, boards and commissions. Are you going to vote on that?

We're going to appoint appointments, boards and commissions. What com? Okay, let's go. Can we get a roll call? Can we um you tell us which committee will go? Mr. President. Yes. Sarah just may I say something to you? Yes. Okay. I'm not sure that this is the time say. I do plan on bringing it up at some point. I want you to know that. So just make a motion. I don't know that this is the I don't know that this is a proper time in the in the meeting. But but is this is this a proper time to do this? Council if I wanted to. Yeah. and just give it we're ready to go ahead

do appointments. Nothing on the agenda. I'm talking to you. Just we're moving on to appointments to boards and commissions. Okay. Which board? The edit building. Mr. President, I'd like to uh nominate Danielle Castle to the building um edit corporation. They've already met this year, so it's just a one-year appointment. And um next year she'll have to be reappointed again. So I would like to still nominate her to take that seat. Is there a second? I'll second that. Any other nominations?

Yeah, Mr. President, I'd like to nominate Judy Hill for the edit. You have a second. I'll second that. Second by Miss Spa. Any other? nominations. Okay, we'll do roll call and they'll mention that. Was it Julie or Judy? Judy. Judith. Judith. Judith. Mr. President, could you have the clerk read the two names of the nominees? Yes. Would you do that, please? I have Danielle Castle.

Yes. and Judith Hill. Thank you.

All right. For Daniel Castle, Mr. Dishman, yes. Miss Selby, yes. Mr. Macintosh, no. Mr. Mason, no. Miss Pal, no. Mr. Garrett, yes. Miss Gian, no. Mr. Bash, yes. Mr. Green, yes. Five. Yes. Castle

Mitch Bourne. We have one. Mr. President, I would like to reappoint Mr. Bill go on the he has uh attended almost every meeting from other board members and he is also a writer. So um one of the points that they express is they always like his opinion as a writer because when they make big decisions as a board members he actually has the hands-on experience how it affects writers. I'll second that. Mhm. Okay. Motion a second nomination. And do we have any other nominations? Seeing and hearing none, I guess roll call. Missing.

Mr. Go. Miss Pal. Mr. Goian. Go. Mr. Garrett. No. Mr. Bash. Mr. Gold. Mr. Macintosh. No. Mr. Dishman. Mr. Good. Mr. Mason. No. Green. Mr. Good. We have one. Moving on to committee reports. We have one on the community center. It'll be given by Mr. Macintosh.

Thank you, President. Um, resolution 15-25. It was a resolution of the common council of the city of Muny establishing a committee to study the development of the community center to replace the former South Madison community center. And a motion was made by uh person uh council person Selvi Ro Selvie and seconded by council person uh Mr. itman to amend to include Morningside North North Neighborhood Association and language regarding the number of board members from 5 to 7. A roll call and the vote was nine yays zero nays. I would like to at this time announce the board for the M uh community center. Morningside industry neighborhood Tammy Harris Blaine industry neighborhood Kea Edel South Central Indiana uh industry neighborhood Leslie McCroy East Industrial Neighborhood Jasmine Taylor Southside Industry Neighborhood Courtney Marsh Maurice Richardson

Edward Jones district 1 council person President Jeff Green, I now give you the committee for the Muny Community Center. Mr. President, yes. One of those members want to speak. Go ahead. Yeah.

Good evening, mayor, members of the city council and neighbors. We stand before you today as representatives of our neighborhood associations and more importantly as voices for the families, youth, seniors, and residents of Muny Southside and the city of Muny. We are honored to have been appointed to serve on this committee, and we take that responsibility seriously. We are committed to working collaboratively, transparently, and digitally to ensure that a community center is not just discussed, but built, sustained, and rooted in the real needs of our community. This center represents more than a building. It represents opportunity. It represents safety, connection, education, wellness, and hope. It is a space where our children can grow, our families can gather, and our neighbors can thrive. We pledge today to listen to our residents, advocate for equitable resources, and remain engaged throughout every phase of this process. We are committed to being accountable to the people that we represent and to partnering with the city leadership to make sure that this vision becomes a reality. We believe in the future of the south side of Muny and we believe in investing in our people and we are ready to do the work to see this community center built for this generation and the next. Thank you for your trust, your partnership and your continued support.

Thank you. Moving on to ordinances previously introduced. Ordinance 1-26. Ordinance 1-26, an ordinance for additional appropriations. Edit. Entertaining. Make a move to adopt ordinance 1-26. I second. the first and a second. Anyone listening to speak on ordinance 1-26?

That would be me, Dan Rydenower, mayor of Muny. Um, I think I went through the details last time. Hopefully everybody has them down. Uh, just for your information, the reason it was TBD was to remind me that I didn't know who the committee was and so now that we have the committee, I know who to call to get this all started. So, uh, looking forward to that. Uh but that was that was the reasoning. Uh everything else is ready to go as far as what's on the that this resolution. Uh but I did not have the names of who each of those neighborhoods picked. So um that's it. So unless somebody has a question. Thank you. Thanks. Anyone from the council have a question?

Anyone from the audience wishing to speak on this? Yes, sir. Carl Malone, Carl Malone, Park Superintendent, Interry Neighborhood President. Um, I was not aware of a meeting that took place. Uh I know we had some conversation and we've since then had some conversation with several other people went and building center but I'm not sure why I wasn't contacted uh about this current meeting where the names came before the council. You mean for the for the representative of industry? Yeah. I was not was not

that was done that was done at your neighborhood association meeting. No, no, no. What I'm saying is I heard the conversation of that this particular meeting that took place a month ago, two weeks ago, whatever. I was not notified of such meeting. Your representative was so at this point in time, I don't know that I support that as a stance and we should have further conversation. Me as a president, I was not informed. That's all I have to say. May I speak? Yes, sir. Mhm.

I just want to speak to uh Superintendent Mr. Malone. When we went to all the neighborhood associations, they chose who they wanted to represent on the committee. I'm just telling you what happened. Okay. And so once we knew meeting called, you going to let me finish? When was the meeting called? You guys didn't invite yourself to our neighborhood association. We didn't invite nobody on this board up there to it. You came on your own. We didn't invite you there. You didn't invite us where? To the neighborhood association meeting. You guys came on your own and you had a plan. We didn't ask for you guys to come and give a plan. I I I see where this is going. All right. I I know you do. I see where it's going. This is confusing.

Which hat did he have on? Just Just just for clarification, at the last meeting, the mayor said that uh this building was going to be on the south side of town. So, I was told it's going to be at the old park office. So, is it somewhere in specific is going to be? Is it the south side of town or is it going to be the park office or they don't know yet? So, I'm just curious. They're still working on that. Huh? Huh? They're still working on that. They just got it. We just got it going. Not going to be at the old park office.

I'm sorry. No, it's not going to be at the old park office in Hein Park. That was the understanding that we got from the mayor that he would like to have clarification. Is that where it's going to be or is this going to be on where the mayor wants it? Yes, that's where he wants it. Council, Mr. escape. I just want to thank you for your efforts over the years and to calling for this center. You've it's been years and years you've came and many people didn't understand what you were saying and sometimes they thought you were

excuse my language off. Yes. But um I think you need to be applauded because every time you've came here and spoke and even if it went on some deaf ears, look at it now. It's happening and congratulations to you. Well, I appreciate that. But Mr. President, I've been told before that it was going to happen. So, I'm not believing anything until some kids in in a building. So, I've been

I've been bamboozled before. So, I believe that the mayor has stated that the 500,000 that was committed for the community center was for that building. It's for a community center. We'll have to commit. So it doesn't necessarily have to be correct for that that building. Okay. That is one of the options. Yeah. Can I speak? This is the whole reason we got the committee to get with the mayor.

Where it's going to be at, when it's going to be, that's what this committee is about. Am I hit? Am I saying that right, Mayor? Thank you. Anyone else with questions?

Yes, sir. I'm Neil Crane. I live in Muny. Um I am curious about the committee that's been created. I know a lot of the folks that are on the committee and between the mayor and the committee. I'm just uh it would be helpful to understand like who is the decision maker on this? Like is the committee the decision maker? Is the mayor the decision maker? Committee is there to advise the mayor.

Okay. So you will be making the decision about where the community center is.

Okay. I think that is probably helpful information that people would want want to understand like um who is responsible for the decision about this because there's I know from work I do in industry neighborhoods that there are a lot of thoughts that are probably unrepresented um in the context of even this you know that would want to understand like who is making a decision. So, um, and I'm just speaking of neighbors. I'm not I'm not speaking of a necessarily even a process of doing that, but trying to understand and maybe educate the community about um how this process is actually working would be would be helpful, I think.

Thank you, M. Mr. Mason.

Mr. I believe at our at their next meeting, we're going to invite the mayor to have further discussion on how to proceed with uh maybe a feasibility study. There are those on the committee who's never been in that building over in Hein Park that might want to look at it as an option. Evening council. Um, I just want to come up and and say that this is kind of how we find ourselves in a lot of things. Like I'm not sure what happened where, but it's like there's all these questions and and everything's confusing as to who's making the decision and a lot of things unknown. Things are not communicated to the public so that they can know. I would like to ask one thing from them. It seems to me if you'd consider it, mayor, is that instead of you necessarily being the decision maker, I know it's your funds, but if you'd be able to say like we're going to put this money into a place that then the people of that community can decide what is the best decision for and make the people of the community be the decision makers.

I can speak real quick. Yes. Right. Gosh, once again the resolute

once again Mr. Councilman uh there was a zoom meeting today with a individual from outside the state who met with the uh the committee industry neighborhood committee. One of the questions mayor came up with would that 500,000 be able to be in a new location? uh doesn't have to be at uh that location pick that we got uh that came up as a question. Um and then also he hammered home hard about having the residents uh be at the table and have a lot of lot of input. And so when we talk about the community center and the importance of the center, as I look at myself, I think I got more years involved in a community center than a lot of you your age

and I go back far as 84 being the program director being on several boards. So me personally, a phone call would have been helpful. However, you guys called the meeting, I was not informed. I just want that to be clear. Now, may I speak, Mr. Rick? The resolution states that it's the study of the development of the community center. This is what the committee is about, the study of it, an advisory committee,

advisory, but it's the study of it. They're just there to be able to advise and and and go by the mayor's lead. When these industrial neighborhoods, when their community ne associations got together, they all elected a representative. We went by the resolution. We had to have a seven person. Didn't say anything about getting a president of an association or anything like that. So, we went by the resolution. We have a committee in place. The mayor knows about it now. The TB uh to be determined is off the board. So, he knows now. He got a committee to work with. and let's let's move forward, man. Come on.

Any other comments, council? Yes, ma'am.

I'm trying to figure out the logistics of this. So, it's a Southside Community Center, but then I was hearing the committee. I was kind of not really listening closely. So it's in Morningside. It's a community center. Did it come through East Central or did it go across the river and miss us? It's a community center. Okay. The amendment uh the resolution had amendment to add Morning Side. So it's those representatives on this committee or what have you. It's just it doesn't mean that it's southside. We don't know where it's going to be right now.

Oh, I'm not saying that. I'm just curious as to I mean I I agree industry and southside and and everything because I know Whitley's doing their own thing which is in the north and I wasn't paying attention because I thought oh this is southside but then I'm hearing there's like in the north so but I heard something about east and and we're east central and I think people know where we are and who we are and I I don't know whether anything was I'm just asking from my own because I'm not I'm not here representing the central neighborhood right now. I'm just asking the question since I've been involved with it for 50 years. Okay. President,

you know, I don't know how many people know the history of what happened to the South Madison Community Center. Yes. In 2003, the city was awarded a Hope Six grant. I lived there. uh South Madison, they needed that land, I guess, to construct housing. Now, in the original grant, it stated that a new community center would be built. Yes. In the first phase of construction and somehow or another,

the grant got amended and the community center was lost. So what we done when we put this committee together, we tried to include the neighborhoods that abudded this area. Mhm. You know, um industry, South Central, Blaine, I think it was originally what five that abuted this this particular area. Uh I think Mr. Green then put in a amendment to include Morning Side. Morning Side. I did. It was me. Or you did? Yeah. To include Morning Side.

That's a That's Now it's a community center. Yeah. But our main concern was to include the neighborhoods directly abuing that particular area.

Well, I think we abut a lot. I'm just saying. I mean, East Central abuts. We abut. That's our boundary. And I'm not I'm not fighting for East Central because we've raised our money and we have the Emily Kimbro House. I'm just curious because it is should be industry and South Central and maybe Southside and that group that's doing such amazing work right now. And I was just curious how it happened. White if if I will tell

if Morningside needs to be hooked with somebody they're north and so is Whitley. I mean could they just like join in with Whitley? I'm I'm not saying do that. I know Whitley's work their butts off to do their thing but I just it that was the one thing I'm sitting there going this doesn't make sense. We're saying Southside Southside Southside and and the why South Madison why I know that I mean you know that was hard. I mean, it's supposed to even be in um the Garfield school and all that stuff. So, I agree with that. I'm I'm just I'm just sitting here and I was trying to make it make sense that it that we it skipped East Central without even just maybe saying, "Hey, do you have any opinion?"

Okay. Thank you. I'm going to tell this council in this city that Morningside neighborhood has been neglected for so many years and I have been working with this neighborhood association that needs the most help and most support. Right?

Every opportunity that we have as a city to include something we have neglected over decades is an is what we must do as citizens. And yes, I was. And I ask not just me, I'm asking every neighborhood association to reach out to them. They're with all due respect, if I may say, they're a little bit behind of the eighth all. We look at East Central neighborhood. Kudos Southside, you guys are doing amazing things. Be mentors for them. They're ready to learn from you. They want to be included. So yes, I was the one and I will always rally for them as an atlarge person because they are part of the city. There are teenagers and young kids that need the mentorship as well even if there's a distance of a mile or two extra. Thank you.

Uhhuh. And I don't disagree with that. I was just I don't know. I just couldn't figure it out because it made so much sense to to replace that community center in the south side of town with those neighborhoods. I wasn't I was just more curious why East Central wasn't and like and I don't know maybe you reached out to our president and I didn't know that but but uh and if you want to mentor why wouldn't you pick I mean Southside's a great neighborhood and they can mentor um South Central's been doing great there's all those people but East Central too I mean they you know there might have been somebody that could have been helpful as far as and Morningside was great. They had a cop shop. They had that building. I mean, they had a a viable neighborhood. They did the the the park and everything. And they have Roger and all those people over there. And, you know, I just was curious because it kept being said southside and then it's like, "Oh, wait. We're going to go clear down Broadway a little bit north." That was I'm just being I'm just being me.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? remarks. Good afternoon again. My name is Courtney. I'm the Southside Neighborhood Association president. Um, I've heard a little bit of chitter chatter in the community over the last couple of weeks as this conversation has come about. Um, and I feel like there are a lot of true misinterpretations of the information. I've been told myself from a few different constituents in the world here that they thought that the Southside Neighborhood Association was the only one that was a part of this. And I'm here to tell you we're not. Mhm.

We said that here publicly in front of you tonight and we'll say it every night together. Together we're going to move forward because we made that commitment to you here publicly for a reason. It wasn't because we wanted to be behind closed doors. It wasn't because we wanted to hide anything from anybody here. And I personally, just like most of my other friends here that are going to be joining us on the committee, value the fact that we do have a representative from Morningside. Thank you very much, Miss Roseli, for that.

She brings a lot of good information and even though we have only met one time, one time. Please explain that to everyone one time. We each sat around the table and said, "Hello, how are you? What's your name?" We did not go into depth in detail about any of this information. We got a very quick, brief introduction as to what it is that our expectations are as a committee. We are still working on that. I'm up here to scream at you tonight to let everybody in the world know we are very new to this. We want everyone's input. As Jasmine has already said to you, we are very strong about this. We're passionate. The four of the neighborhoods that surround that park were asked to be a part of this committee for that reason. We surround that park. Those are our people. Those are our loved ones, our friends, our neighbors, our people.

Miss Roseli said, "You know what? There's another great amazing person in the world that should be a part of that committee." And she stood up here in front of everyone and said, "I would like to represent this person." And here she is. She's a beautiful soul and she has brought a lot to the table in that one conversation that we had. We look forward to having more conversation with her. She's got amazing input on not just her neighborhood, but the things that she's been through with her neighborhood. She brings a lot of information just like the rest of us. We're going to be reaching out. We're going to be asking questions. We're going to be asking each one of you for advice.

We're going to be asking each one of our constituents that reach out to us or that we reach out to for their advice, their input, and their opinion. We really appreciate the support from the city council and everything that you guys have done in order for us to get to this point because just like we've already said, it is a long time coming. The multi has been gone for way too long. Most of us grew up in the multi, if not the Ross Center, if not the Buy Center. If not, the people down the street, they had a community center on their front porch. Just saying, right? All the kids in the neighborhood know where it's at. They know the snacks are there. The dogs love is all over it and they're ready to come. We have a following, not just me, everyone that stood up tonight that said they wanted to be a part of this committee. Y

every city council person that's a part of the committee or or some portion of it up to this point. It's not Southside's community center. Let me make that real clear. This is Muny's community center that's going to be built by Muny residents. It just so happens that the building that we are anticipating using, hear that, hear that loud. Anticipating using is owned by the city of Muny.

We've not had conversations with a contractor. Do we know if the walls are good, the roof is steady, we can do anything in that building besides walk through it, and that might be questionable? No. We have not had time to sit down with a design crew, anyone of an architectural background. Again, we are people that love our city and we stood up and said we love our city. That's where we're at. That's where we plan to be. And from this time moving forward, now that we know that we are all very committed to this committee, we are going to be stronger. This is our point of foundation. We are standing up here to say we love the city, we love you all, we know you've been fighting for it forever. Especially Mr. Sta.

He's been at numerate meetings streaming the same thing we are. and we plan to make sure he's a part of this group some shape, form, fashion, whatever. But we have to build our foundation in order to do that. So the misconception that this is a southside community center, I'm southside and it's not. It's also a very big part of our industry neighbors, our south central neighbors, our Blaine Southeast neighbors, and our Morningside neighbors because they're not way out there in the boonddocks. They have viable information that they need to share with us because we as a committee want to make our city stronger. This generational issue that we're having can be corrected as long as we get our foundation together. That's what we're building right now. If you want to be a part of that, that's great. We would love your input. We definitely would. But right now, again, we're trying to build our foundation. We're trying to get our feet together because if we don't, exactly what Mr. State said early is going to happen.

True. It's not going to come. It's not going to be there. Just like Jasmine said, our generations need this. Not do we need this? Do we love it? Yes. But my kids and their kids need it. So that's why we came onto the committee. That's why we said yes. That's why we publicly stood up here tonight to make a point because we don't want to be in the dark. And we don't for the want for the community as a whole to think that we're being shady or deceiving or conniving or we're not trying to share that information. We've had one meeting. Please be patient with us. we are getting our together

and we are excited to be a part of that committee. So, thank you so much for your time tonight. I just want to make sure to set the record straight is not a Southside only community center. It is a citywide community center that all works together. Thank you so much for your time tonight. You guys have a great night. My name's Judy Hill. I'm just a citizens of my but I just want to say um about that community center. It's just a replacement. The original one that had been there for years. I'm 83. I went there. My parents, they all went there. And it's nothing new. It's just that it's been overlooked because the money was there, but it was never replaced. They used it that block where it sat, they used it to build those some of those apartments and left that community center out. So, it's nothing new. It's just a replacement that's been long overdue and it should be in the millions by now if that 500,000 had been left instead of spent elsewhere. So, you know, and a community center is for everybody.

That's right. Mhm. It's not just for where it's going to be because the kids that went there widely blame everybody went there.

So I just want people to know it's just a replacement. It's nothing new wherever it's built. It's the money that should have been replaced when they tore that down years ago. When there used to be a swimming pool, when the black kids could not go swim anywhere, that was the place where you went to swim. That's the place that you went. So, it's just one of those things that is going to be for everybody. Yes. It's not just going to be it's just a replacement that should have happened years ago. Yeah. Thank you.

Any questions or comments? Okay. Hearing seeing none, roll call, please. Yes. Who we vote on again? We on the ordinance. Yes. Okay. 26. Yes. Yes. Mr. Mason. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Nine. Ordinance 2-26.

Ordinance 2-26 being a resolution of approval to supplement and amend the text of the city of Muny subdivision regulations regarding an article five improvement and requirements. I have a motion for I'll make a motion. Is that Mr. Mr. Garrett? Yeah. Second. I'll second. Anyone wishing to speak on ordinance 2-26? Yes, ma'am.

Eileen Swackhammer from the plan commission. Good evening, council. Uh, last month this was introduced. At your last meeting, Brandy Ingramman from my office came to read you this introductory letter. Um, I also did email all of this to you um with some supporting documentation.

This amendment would be to add text to the city subdivision ordinance to require that trees be included in the development of a new subdivision. Um, so I'll go ahead and read the the amendment. It would be section 28-31 natural features in approving a proposed subdivision plaque. The commission shall consider the preservation of existing natural features contributing to the enhancement of a subdivision in its environments such as natural growth, water courses, falls, beaches, and historic areas. Such features shall be incorporated in the design of the subdivision. Trees shall be preserved and shall be welled against grade changes. The subdivider should provide at least one shade tree per front yard. Corner lots shall provide at least one approved shade tree per street frontage. Such trees shall have a minimum diameter of not less than 2 in measured at 48 in above grade.

Yep. Thank you. Any questions for council? Anyone wishing speak from the audience? Seeing and hearing none. Roll call, please. Mr. Macintosh. Yes. Yes. Mr. Mason. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Ordinance 3-26. Yes. Ordinance 3-26. An ordinance of the city of Muny amending section 32.39 of the city of myy code of ordinances prerequisites to action on ordinance comma resolution. I have a motion to adopt second president I'd like to make amendment. Please make comment. Go ahead.

Yeah. that this or ordinance reorganizes section 32.39 of the city of Muny coding of ordinances and adds requirement that each ordinance of resolution be filed in person or by electronic mail by the member of the common council that signed the ordinance or resolution or by the attorney that approved the form of the ordinance or resolution. 3-26 simply represents a common sense change. It will build public trust in the council and our city government. This ordinance offers clarification the following procedures that will create clearer expectations for all officials and staffs of this administration and future councils and administrations to come. There's no reason why the original ordinance should not have passed a 90 vote. So, here we are again. And those of you who voted no have an opportunity to write a serious wrong. You've received the same emails and phone calls that I have. Yep. Uh which have been many. from the public voicing their concerns of accountability and transparency of this council and city administration. We as a council cannot expect to hold others accountable for their actions if we ourselves are not being accountable and transparent.

Okay. I encourage you to do the right thing tonight and let's get this ordinance in place and passed. Okay. Um Okay. I I agree with uh what you're saying, Mr. Mason. I do have an amendment to make um all besides and that would be um section 32.39 and I will explain my amendment and the reason paragraph A to adjust um the city. You need to make a motion, right? I would like to mo make a motion to amend. Tell us how you're going to amend that if you would.

Oh, you would like Okay. I would like to make a motion and that's what I was going to explain because I have to explain. Um, the city clerk shall not accept for filing any ordinance or resolution to be considered by the common council unless and until it has been approved by written signature thereon of a member of the common council. I would like to add and the city controller, and has been approved for form by city attorney. So, I'm just I think it's a great idea. I'd like to add the city controller since the city control is responsible for most of the financial if I may finish financial uh transactions of the government. Therefore, the controller should be included in the signature and knowledge of items submitted um because to be honest most of our items or some have a financial cost or a financial reporting uh component. So, he should be aware of those ordinances. Let's go ahead.

Is that the motion? That's the motion. That's the motion. Okay. Make a motion to amend. There needs a second. Okay. Okay. Do we have a second? I second. But I just want to be clear. We're just really amending. We're adding the controller and the city controller. Yes. To paragraph eight. Eight. A. Okay. That's it. Mr. Just a minute. So that goes to I'm sorry. That's the I second.

Okay. Um, I guess my question is why the controller would needed to be added to every ordinance because for instance, if we're changing city parking or we are um, you know, something on there's no need to have a city controller sign off on on every ordinance. Now, I would ex I would be in support of to add and to amend your amendment that uh city controller on ordinances that pertain to financial Yeah. decisions or actions.

Um I also you had said that as a city the city attorney and I don't agree with that either because we have a council attorney that is just as qualified to validate signatures of council. So I I I think that I think to to designate or to to limit that to just the city attorney nullifies why we have a council. I mean, you know, yeah, I have I didn't I don't think I did. I said the city attorney or the attorney of the common council. Both. She said both. Both. Okay. All right. Both, Mr. President. No, you're right. Both. Absolutely, Mr. President. Let's clarif

Yes. I have a secondary motion to amend to say the city controller on ordinances that pertain to city finance business. So I'm looking Thank you, Councilman Macintosh. All right, Mr. Do we have a second? Yes, he got Mr. Mintosh. Okay. Okay. I'm just going to say I think that's muddying up the waters. I think that that's all it's doing.

Um and even even even council person Powels, I understand that you're, you know, trying to to tweak it a bit, but that's broad. I mean, you know, that's can you can anybody can say, well, this might affect finances down the road. I I just think that that is not necessary. I feel like if we're doing something that's financial, we're probably talking to the financial person. I mean, I hope that we're, you know, doing that. We have an attorney and if the attorney believes that the controller needs to be agreed um you know spoken you know or needs counsel from the um controller then the attorney will make that decision whichever attorney that is I feel like why are we why are we adding steps

he will but I'm sorry Miss Gullian with all due respect but like when we are introduc May I yes go ahead

thank you I don't see the reason why somebody like especially the controller not know what's going on. I mean every anything that we do is um like it doesn't change what the purpose of the accountability that Miss Powell introduced to make sure that the council person's signatures on the I totally agree with that and we have to make sure that the person or the council person who's presenting the ordinance or resolution it is them who signed it but I don't see what's I mean when do we decide when do we show it and then it becomes like us against them and them against us. I think if one person is open communication and just in case we might think something doesn't cost money but later on it might need the attention of the controller and that's where I'm coming from. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, I don't think there's money in the water. May I respond? You're fine, Mr. President. That's correct. Okay. I I I hear where you're coming from and I I trust that you're you know heart's in the right place for that. But I just feel like I mean most none of our resolutions have anything to do with money rarely. I mean um that most most of our I mean you know it really and truly I just feel like you're saying that everything that we told or somebody to know. Yeah. Yeah. And then and that adds more time. That adds I I mean I don't understand why we would have to do that. Again, we have two attorneys. We have the city attorney. We have our own council attorney. Yeah.

They know when we should bring be bringing in like controllers um opinion. Okay. Mr. President, yes. I'll call for questions so we can have a vote on this selfies. We've got two We've got two questions. Are you calling the question for Miss Powell's secondary amendment? You pardon me. First, do do we need to go first? The secondary would need to go. That's what I mean. That's what Okay. Yes. Okay. So, we're voting on Council Person Powell's secondary. That's your call for the question. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to

keep up. And which mean I'm sorry if I may. It means not having the control involved. No, no. It means that my and mine was conting and mine was contingent on yours because I agree with council person Golian that it's it's extra layers of of things, but I think that if we are going to move forward with yours, which I understand as as council person Golian said, your heart's in the right place. I feel like we really only need the controller's signature on on ordinances or resolutions that involve finances. Okay. Okay. Mr. President, I call. Okay. We got a question. Question without citizen input,

right? Let's not do that. What question? The question has been called ask but it's on the amendment. It's not to pass it. It's just on the amendment for a minute. Okay. So take a vote because I have comment on this. Okay.

As as the city clerk specifically says, city clerk's office. No one consulted me when they I'm totally for this, but I have a lot of really good insight. For example, if you look at the 2026 budget, we don't have the controller signature on the one that's online. But last year's, we have the controller, the attorney, and the council member. I have lots of good information. All you have to do is ask me, Mr. President. Yes. I may Oh, we've called a question.

Sorry. I'm sorry. We can't do anything except do it. Okay. So, at this time, council, we need to vote on the secondary amendment. Is that correct? Only reason. Okay. In reverse order. Okay. Voting on whether or not do you want to change it? I'm fine on the is fine. You want to bring it up? We're all good. Right. We're all good. Okay. Mr. President, right? We've got We've got a question. We need

Yeah. to Belinda's question. So, are you saying that this is already in place? No, we're not saying that that a lot of is I mean if they got those signatures that questions been called things and I have an issue with some of the electronic submissions because I would have liked to have been part of the discussion. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. We have question. We need to vote roll call on this amendment two. Mission. No. Mr. Bash.

No. Mr. Mason. No. Mr. Macintosh. No. Mr. Dishman. Yes. Mr. Garrett. No. Miss. No. Miss. Yes. President. No. Okay. Okay. To the amendment. To the secondary. My amendment. That was amendment to the amendment. I'm just I'm just trying to get clear. Now was Now we have

a vote, but we haven't had question called on it. Right. There's a motion on the original Yes. So that's the adding the controller to those. Yes. Yes. Do you want to do Yeah. It's not been a question call. So is there there's comment on the amendment? On the amendment.

On the amendment. Yeah. So, quick question because like this is it's been ongoing since I think October, September or something. Why is the amendment now being brought up and it's not been offered before or anything? I mean, I'm just Okay, I I'll answer. May I? Okay.

Okay. And like I wish as council to be honest with you that when I I'll start with myself. when I bring an ordinance I wish we would talk to each other as council even one on- one because a lot of times we see right when you brought this you know like we don't call each other and say hey what well we might call certain people but we might not call everybody to see hey did you look at this what's your input and we don't do that let's be hon I was never questioned so now that it's moving forward I read it study it some more kind of figure out what And this is how I felt before. What do you mean? When you say you don't you didn't understand before. What do you mean?

What I meant like the first time? Yeah. I didn't read it like understand it. Meaning like So it's been going on since October at the September, October. What? Okay. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that's been like how many months is that? Okay. Yeah. I mean that's several months. I mean, so I read it some more and this is what you know because everybody to be honest with you, I was on the uh fence with it and I had to sit there and ask myself what is it that but at any of those meetings you could have brought up the amendment. You could you could have amended it before. Well, this is you know the the second reading. Okay. In my opinion, I think council should have uh its own independence and not be um you know having the uh administration

I do have my independence. Thank you, M. Daisy. I don't know about that. Okay.

Um, Alex Blubber, my resident of views don't express my those of my employer. I'll just say I think council person Mason said it best, so I'll skip my prepared statement, but I will say I support passing the ordinance ordinance un amended. Okay. And I hope you will, too. Thank you. Yeah, I want to know. Christopher Bilbury. Um, this doesn't make sense, Ro. You know, this doesn't make sense.

It It doesn't make sense to have the controller have to sign off on an ordinance where you guys uh or the resolution where you guys you were wanting civility. it doesn't make sense to have the controller sign off on

uh the stop sign thing that they did in the neighborhood. And and furthermore, if you have a contentious bill that someone from the other party puts forward, the administration is going to be able to kill that anytime. Any ordinance that they want to kill and say, "Nope, I don't want to sign this." then no ordinances or resolutions can ever come before the council because the controller whether it's this controller or any controllers in the future you got to think about when these people 10 20 15 years from now when these people are gone the controllers can just say nope not going to sign this and they're going to kill any kind of legislation that comes before so it really I mean if if you please please please think about this if you pull this and just vote on this it doesn't make sense to tie this up in nonsense you you see how you see how you guys get in your own way on a lot of on a lot of very just easy things. Just there's no need to get in your own way on this. Just pull this off. Vote on the bill. Vote yes or no and let it be how it is, but don't don't tie this up with nonsense. Thank you.

Mr. President, I may I make a comment. Um, I have heard for the first time tonight from our city clerk that she had no input in in the constructing of this ordinance. Recognizing your vital role in the whole process. Now, this might not be the time to ask if it's a prop if it's appropriate, but I'd like to I'd like to table this ordinance

because I'd like to involve our city clerk in any amendments going forward before we actually pass this ordinance. When is the appropriate time for me to call to do that? If you're asking table, do we have to vote on the amended? question that's on the table.

I I I make a motion we table um ordinance uh 326.

It'll need a second, right? Yes, we have a second. Okay, I guess I got that

tried. We elected you as councilman do our business. We should not need the city administrator that is appointed to dictate whether you guys are allowed to bring you vote on this. That's what you're doing by putting the controller's name on there that he has to approve it forward. Problem is there was an ordinance in it that councilman did not sign. So that's the problem. You guys get all these ordinances. And even if you are the one that was supposedly signed, if you know whether you signed that or not, step up and make sure, hey, that's the ordinance I signed. That's the one I put forward. And if it's not, you speak up and say, hey, that's not my ordinance. I did not do that. So check yourselves before you get the controller to check. That's all I'm saying. You got to check yourselves. If somebody's getting ordinances in with your signature on them, I think that's a I think that's against the law. So, check your ordinances before you go to the council meeting. Don't put the c Don't put controller in charge of council. Okay.

Okay. We need to vote on the amendment. Okay. Any more questions? No, he did not tell you. We didn't get a second. Wait, no, didn't get a second. Okay, roll call. This is on the the amendment that made. Yes. Yes. Voting on. Yes, no. Mr. Garrett, yes. Mr. Serious. No. Mr. Bash. Yes. No. Mr. Mason, no.

President Green. Yes. Wow.

Uh, Mr. President, I'd like to make a an amendment. I'd like to add an amendment. I'd like to make an amendment. Um, I'd like to add or the city controller um to the paragraph B section 3239. It suggests it reads now without or the city controller to ensure that the approval required in um subsection A above has been obtained. Each ordinance or resolution shall be filed in person or electronic mail by the member of the city council that signed the ordinance or resolution or the city controller or the attorney that approved the form of the ordinance or resolution that is being filed.

Mr. That is my motion. That is my motion. Do we have a second? We have a second, Mr. President. Yes. So, you're saying that we don't have to have an attorney look at it? No, it says or. Yes. Or the city controller or the attorney. You're saying or for all of those? Yes. So, you don't have saying you do not have question. You do not have to have an attorney look at it, Mr. President. We don't have to have an attorney look at Mr. proposed bills our ordinances. We have question.

I'm going to I I would like to ask a question. I would I would Yes.

I'm sorry. Okay. I have I have a question about calling question. I was told that we are able to to to challenge the question being called by a vote. So I would like to put the the question being called to a vote to see if we can continue this conversation to clarify what has been suggested. This is I will second that. Yes sir. So I would like for I would like to I would like to I would like to to to call to have a roll call vote on question. I will second that. I I don't still When question was called question there's no question

so there is no question there is no question okay any other comments on I the amendment I would like Mr. Mr. Bashion to clarify what he is suggesting. I actually I I I don't need to clarify. I just read the proposed amendment to include or the city controller or the attorney that approved the form of the ordinance or resolution that is being filed.

So, Mr. President, I would like clarification from our attorney if that re if that says an attorney or the controller because I don't feel like anything should come before the council that hasn't been approved by either the city or our attorney. You're asking about whether or not

I'm asking for for your legal opinion on his on his amendment to make sure that a an attorney is still involved in every piece of legislation that comes before this council. That it is not and it's no Nothing against Mr. Wright. It has nothing to do I'm looking not I'm looking far beyond myself into 20 years from now because we cannot guarantee that people that are sitting at this bench will have the same intentions that we do. And I want to make sure that we are not putting things in place that that removes an attorney from any piece of legislation that comes before us. I think you're asking whether or not

so it would be more appropriate to say and I know I don't agree either. Um Mr. President, yes because if it says or is that even legal? I mean does does do we have to have an attorney look at these before we can I mean I know we do right now right you know I mean because of our you know rules under however you know state coder and you may not know this because it's honestly insane to me that anybody would bring up not having an attorney look at these things but is do you know if that's even legal I don't know at the state level before this for our own protection

shouldn't we know that before we vote on this if It's legal. Yeah. May I amend my my second? No, I did get a second. Mr. Vote on the amendment. your

so we could vote down this amendment and then I could make another amendment. It seems like what you're asking I guess whether or not you make a secondary amendment. Oh yes. You would have to have a second. You have to make a secondary amendment and get a second for that. Okay. I'd like to make a secondary amendment to include the word and rather than or

is there a second that includes an attorney? Second by Mr. Dishman. You second it. Okay. Okay. Now we're voting on the secondary amendment and any more discussion from council on the second amendment? So we are saying two people now have to do this too attorney and the controller. Correct. Sure. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. Any other comment from council audience on the amendment?

Yeah, I just notic the mayor already left I believe. So I just be curious if you like to talk mayor's back yet. Um I mean as as far as whether I'm signing anything or not to go in front of the council for debate that's uh you know I'll accept 90. That's what you're asking.

Mr. President, may I ask a question? Yes, you may ask a question. Mr. Wright, um, all the ordinances and and resolutions that come before council that deal with finances usually are generated from your office in in collaboration with the mayor. Correct.

And generally, yes. I don't recall in the time I served on council before or in the past two years that anyone on council has sponsored an ordinance that that tries to appropriate money or anything without ha talking to you about it or having actually having you sponsor. I actually I don't think that anyone has sponsored. So basically everything that's generated that comes before us that has to do with finances that has to do with proven contracts that anything that can do with anything financial is generated through your office working in tandem with the mayor's office. Correct. Correct. So, if I were So, if I were to work with the people at Westview Elementary about parking or stop signs and and I collaborated with our attorney and it was the last day of filing and you were already gone, then there's a chance that I would have to wait an additional month because I could not get the required signature of the controller. Correct.

I mean, if if you don't have all the signatures, correct? Yes. Or if there was something that you were absolutely against, you not saying that you would, sir. Not saying that you would, sir. Or but but a controller might just not be available. And when since there's only one controller as opposed to two attorneys, one with the city, one with a council, it limits my options of pushing something in that I would like to have for my constituents in district 2. It adds an additional layer of requirements. That's right. To to even introduce legislation. That's right, Mr. President. Thank you. That's all I wanted to ask. I just wanted to prove a point.

I'm finished. Thank you. I'm sorry. Okay. Um, so I'm gonna I'm actually gonna ask our attorney if they can for a second if I can. You want me? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I swear to you. I did that already. Okay. So, Mr. Arnold, so when we send you one of our ordinances, resolutions, you look through it. What do you do? What What do you do when we send you back? If you see something that What are you looking for? What are you looking for?

For as to form. But you're also sometimes But you you've also if you you're approving as to form, but you're also checking it to make sure everything is legal. Correct. That's what that is. Right. Correct. Right. Exactly. So my question is thanks. That's um I love Robert's rule of I was making. Um, so I'm asking

is this, you know, is this would this give the controller that same power or I know power is the right word, but you know that same kind of input? It's like if he thinks if he doesn't agree with something that's in there, is this going to give him the chance to change something or not sign it or or get ghost? How did how does that read in what she said? Yeah, I mean that was more I think probably hypothetical but just points making a point. How why would he not be able to do the same thing? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean what's stopping him from that? I mean if he's making this or saying no I don't agree with this or I don't think this is right correct what you know whatever it is. I don't think anything. Okay. Okay. We're We're going to go to a fivem minute recess. We'll come back. There's no water.

You make right choice. We're going to need bathroom. Okay. Okay. I'm not doing this anymore. I got to go talk to Miss Daisy.

You going to take this time and tell me what what the deal is? Why you can't answer emails? Does your email not work? Okay. So, you just refuse to answer.

You can chime in too, I guess. I mean, it works for both of you. It's just a failing of yours. No, I wouldn't say it's a failing of mine. Um, you are media. You are you're you're the media. Sure. And I I've tried to I I don't mind speaking with constituents. I don't mind discussing things with them. I don't do social media. I'm not involved. I've not asked you on social media. email. I know that.

I know that. But you are not as a citizen asking that. You're asking it as your media. You're like channel 13, channel 8, if I understand that correctly. Am I right? Right. Absolutely. Okay. Uh but I don't I don't stop being an American. I don't stop being a I never I never meant I never meant that you weren't. No. No. I understand. And I know you're a citizen of Delaware, Kansas, and I understand that. Right. And you don't think I pay taxes here? Well, I'm sure you do. Okay.

So, as a as a person that gets paid by my tax contribute contributions to this city, you feel that you don't have to answer to me ever.

It's a It's a very fine line. I I guess that that that is a pitport and you know you know that I mean you know that you're supposed to be a conservative, right? You you know what you're saying is nonsense. What you don't want to do is you don't want to get the trick back. You're afraid you're afraid of what you're saying because you don't sit on your own morals up here. You know, I've heard lots and lots and lots of people tell me what a nice and respectable man you are. What a great creature you are. People going to bat for you all the time. That's not the man I'm seeing. So, what is it you want to see?

Are you for real? What is it? I'm talking about you as communication as an individual. Yeah. Communication. You are an elected official. I would like to see communication. You know, maybe things wouldn't have to be as so adversarial if you would just do a little bit of what your job is. You don't have to like I'm talking about you as an elected official and Christopher Bill

because while you might look at me as a media and that's a reason to not communicate with me, I project a voice out that people do see, that your constituents do see, and your constituents do hear. And let me tell you, your constituents are upset with the fact that I've got dozens and I mean four years of emails from you, from Mr. Basham, from Mr. Dishman that refuse to answer emails and nobody understands what's going on. And I've got Tim over here telling me that it's the um behavior of the citizens that drive away business from council meetings. I think it's probably businesses seeing that we have a council who half of the members aren't in the 21st century.

If I was a business coming to Muny and I heard that half of the council couldn't figure out email, I would really consider whether or not I wanted to sit down for business. So whether it was your idea for the rules or Tim's idea or Dan's idea or whatever, I mean maybe if one of those times you would have answered an email, I wouldn't have such the attitude I have, which would probably help. It's like which came first, the chicken or the egg. You know, I didn't start out having a problem with you. started out not knowing anything about you.

First email I send you, you don't respond to. Well, he's busy. Second email, well, he's still busy. Third email, well, he's still busy. Three years into it, well, the dude's got a problem. You know, you never once sent back an email and said, "Hey, Mr. Bill, the reason I don't respond to you is because I can look at you as media." So, you want me to tell you I think that that's just an excuse that you pulled out of the air right now or else you would have sent that back three years ago

or you would have sent that back on email one or email five. So, as I told Tim, I'm working on and I will be willing to work on a nicer attitude moving forward. But I, you know, that old country song, you start walking my way, I'll start walking yours.

We both have to work toward that. And I I realize that I I need moving forward. I need to reach out and respond. council. I would hope that maybe you would take some time to counsel your other fellow counselors, maybe at least your your fellow wing of the Republican party, you know, your vice president and whatnot and uh your your the new trans Republicans that we have and tell them the same thing. You know, maybe they they ought to consider communication because let me tell you, I'm not the only people that you guys don't communicate. That's the other issue. There are other people that you don't communicate with and they are your constituents and there are other people that Jerry doesn't communicate with and there are other people that he doesn't communicate with and there are other communicate that you know half of the people and they are adding ordinances on top of ordinances on top of

amendments or like it's written they don't have they don't have yeah vote on it like it's written or they don't care about I don't want to get it's too easy. It's too easy. Let's amend it to amend it to amend it to amend it again. Just vote on the damn thing and kill it.

5 minutes. I didn't time it apologet. Please.

They got to control all of this. Roll out there and control. That's crazy. Okay, you ready? Let's go. I'm ready. One back. Where's Brandon? Brandon. Oh, here he is. Sorry. I apologize. Somebody else. Okay. Oh, there they are. We'll bring meeting back to order.

Mr. President, I'd like to withdraw my secondary amendment. withdrawn. Any other comment concerning ordinance 3-26? Okay. By council. Do you want me to read it again? But but but now we need to vote on the amendment. So he's pulled his secondary amendment. That's it. There's no more amendments to be two. So the primary amendment is still okay. So the one with the controller started the one

or oh the or Mr. Bash made a secondary amendment. Okay. So we're back right section B wording or city controller. That's right. And and just just for clarification, after recess, it was your legal opinion that the ores meant that it could be during before the recess. Before the recess that that the ors of Mr. Basham's amendment could mean the the controller or the attorney, correct? That was your legal

as for it means if motion passes then we don't attorney design question. No, I'm calling question. So, so now then, Mr. President, sorry. Yes. So, now is when I can call a challenge to So, that's why I can now is when I can call a challenge to calling a question. I would like to do that. Second that.

Go back to debate openly. No, no, no. Excuse me, Mr. We have to vote on the challenge before we can move on to discuss to vote to call the question. So now we have to vote on the challenge whether we want to call the question or we want to vote for the challenge. Am I correct? I mean you're extending the date. So right two. So we we needed two to either way on the challenge. On the challenge.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Roll call on clarification. Could you Yeah. Clarification again. I have no idea, but I called the question. That means that we vote. Yes. There was a challenge on the question. On the question and second and now we're voting on the challenge. Thank you. Am I correct? Yes. Okay. clarify it for you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yes. No.

Mason. Yes. No. Garrett, yes. Yes. Yes. Green. No. Six. Still two3.

So that brings us back to the two comments. Second comment until everyone has a chance to make a comment. So this brings us back to discussion again. Okay. The amendment only amendment. Yes. The word or is that correct to put the Okay. Okay. So yes.

So I'm just going to make it clear that that amendment is saying or. It means that does not have to be signed by an attorney. Just so the public understands exactly because I know we're going back and forth a lot. It is saying that the controller or one of the attorneys, not and so an attorney does not have to sign any of the ordinances or any of the resolutions that any of us would bring uh to to vote on. Miss Clea. Yes. Go ahead. Uh, so that could be the attorney you're mentioning could be a city or a Yeah, either. Okay. Thank you.

Any other question for council? I do not forget. Um I just wanted to offer an observation that I have spoken to this council on this ordinance four times across four months across four different council meetings. If these kinds of concerns were at play, they could have been brought up earlier. We just heard over an hour and 15 minutes earlier of public comment regarding people wanting to have input in their local government trying to be engaged and involved citizens. And what is happening now is that you had a group of people who were willing to stand up here and speak in support of this ordinance. I spoke to many of them who were here and I spoke to many others who already went home tonight because of the the time that we're at and like

I'm sorry if I'm exasperated right now but it is past my bedtime at this point and I so please let people be engaged and informed citizens and what is happening right now is there is a lot being added to this ordinance that confuses things that the public is not ready to speak on right like we need to have more time to process what these changes I mean think about the conversation that has unfolded over the past 15 or so minutes we're trying to even understand what is happening with these amendments with the process at play here what this represents there's one amendment then it's being withdrawn let the people speak on what they came to here on and if you think the controller should be involved propose your own amendments propose your own ordinance I mean, it should be a separate ordinance. Let your constituents speak on what they're here tonight. And don't make it so confusing that people aren't even able to offer a support for an ordinance that I know that you'll have heard across several meetings from so many people that people are in support of. Thank you. I agree with her, but I respectfully disagree with her in the fact that I'm saying that this is this is not being done in good faith. Okay. Um it would be one thing everything she's saying if this was something done in good faith that was brought up at the last moment, but it's not being you're you're doing this in attempt to kill Bill or to do something weird. This has not been brought up at any other point. Um there's no sense in what's going on. And what's really heartbreaking is there are people that's sitting up here that could could we could just all shut up and you guys could vote if you guys

would vote like you had some common sense. If Jerry would vote this down, if Garrett would vote this down, if if some of the other Republicans that know that there's no real reason to do this, this is just nonsense. I literally just stood and had a conversation with the president during break that I thought was hopeful. But then we come back and we got this nonsense that's just shows that it's not it's all gameplay. This is all fake. Everything we're doing here is fake. It does not matter. You guys are going to do what you do. Jerry, you're a Republican. For God's sake, vote no on this one. No one's going to throw you out of the party. It's okay. You can vote no. Be a man again. Do the right thing. Dan can't get you. He's not going to kick you out. Tim's not going to kick you out. You're a Republican. Garrett, do the right thing. Let's do the right thing here. Whatever this is, would Could you tell the people why you think the controller needs to do this? What what magically all of a sudden that his role has in this? What what does this mean for you? Well, as we've discussed before, it to the eyes of the controller to view it and to to recognize it's important and to and to violate.

Okay. To me, it's like some ordinance that cost money just to make sure whatever we're for example the ethics committee, it needed a budget. Uh so that whatever we're bringing into the city that we have the money to to get it through. So why don't you do this? Yes. Why don't we why don't we not add this level of nonsense to it? And if some bill comes before you guys that you don't agree with because it has some kind of money aspect to it, vote no on it then

rather than adding because here's the deal. This ordinance doesn't affect you guys really to begin with. This it doesn't affect you. If you vote and pass this without this bash of nonsense, it doesn't affect you guys. If it passes, you you guys do the ordinances and the resolutions the way that you always do them. The only people that this affects are the people the the citizens and I ask you to push something that the administration doesn't like and let's take you guys out of it. I'm not saying you guys as Jerry Macintosh. I'm not I'm saying the council because eventually you guys aren't going to be in these seats. The mayor's not going to be in his seat. That controller is not going to be here. You guys have to think about your weirdness that you're doing now 50 years from now. This is nonsense. Just son of the Republicans, please kill this weirdness and vote on the bill like it's put forward and let's go home.

Amen. Amen.

I agree with what was just said, but I want to add a kind of point from a totally different angle. I am a retired linguistics professor. I have a doctorate in linguistics. I taught it for more than 40 years. My specialty is in semantics, word gaming. Linguists test I've never done this, but linguists do testify in court about the meanings of words and how they may or may not be interpreted um in um contracts, laws, etc. So, I just want to say that putting in or the or controller confuses things because in English this may not be your immediate reaction. But the or is ambiguous between either or or and or.

Right? And there, believe it or not, there are many books and dissertations written on the meanings of and and or. And this comes up in courts. And so really looking down the line, this could be disputed what that means. It's better to just leave it out. the or the or controller

and the controller today said he would approve but this was the appointment Nor was making it's not about the individual it's about the office and you don't know what the next controller is going to approve you have to have this stated in terms of a principle a guiding principle not will cooperate. Thank you.

I just want to say I agree with Dr. Riddle and I also want to ask are you really saying that you don't need an attorney? That's what it says.

That's frightening. up there 10 years and this takes the cake by far takes the cake on the amendment to amend to amend to amend and take it with that pony show guys you guys you got to remember businesses are watching you two sitting up there you guys are controlling this meeting not doing a very good job I'm my post thank you No aren't on either.

Mine is on. No, ours aren't. No, ours are not there. There's a button. Try it. Try it. I didn't do it. So, we have Wait, let me push it.

Legal counsel, I have a question. Are we ready to vote on primary amendment? He's got some of them cut off. I'm not saying anything. Oh, I don't care. Obviously, I'm loud. Nothing to say.

I just sit there thinking about this. If you don't make an attorney and Say the controller does it not even like you know or on purpose. if he makes a mistake and it passes and then three or four years down the road something happens and it goes to court, you know, I mean at least by having the ordinance ask for either the city attorney or the council attorney for sure or you know you are at least with their degree and their legal expertise guaranteeing that the form and the legality of the ordinance presented to you that you vote on in good faith because it's been reviewed by attorney. You know, you don't I mean

it just could save the situation years down the road where maybe that ordinance is questioned and goes to court and things like that. That would be my situation that I think having the or like she said about ambiguous. I think my opinion is it should be a city attorney or the council attorney

and then let the controller like he said he reviews it anyway and comes up here and talks before you know just that's not I mean to me I would be more comfortable as a citizen knowing that an attorney reviewed the ordinances and said they were okay to bring I have a question for legal if my understanding is correct act the paragraph A requires the approval of city attorney or the attorney for the common council. We're dealing in section B which is talking about the filing. Am I correct? This is not the approval. This is the filing of that

I think. Well, Mr. Bash Yes. So it is it is a clerk shall not accept for filing any ordinance resolution to be considered by council unless approved by written signature by council member and has been approved performed by city attorney or the attorney for the common council. Okay. So

to ensure the approval required in subsection A above has been obtained. Each resolution shall be this is in B filed in person or by electronic mail by a member of council that signed the ordinance or resolution or the attorney that's approved. So yes, it's dealing with who is presenting it, who's filing it, but it's already went through the attorney. It's already gone through the attorney. attorney. The attorneys have already looked at this and the form is correct. That's my understanding. Yes. Okay. So, simply filing. We've been here since 1865. We've never had this done. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Thank you. Okay.

Any more questions from council? Yes, ma'am. Does not If a controller does not sign off on the filing, nothing happens, right? Because it has to be filed. So then you end up with a contradiction between two different sections. Okay. Actually, Mr. President, yes.

Okay. actually what could happen is sort of what happened that got that generated this in the first place which is we should be and and I mean I think for all time basically it's been the sponsoring council person has filed it with the clerk or an attorney has this last time the administration did it. This is allowing the administration to do that again. rather than so if I signed something, decided to pull it, and they wanted it to do, the controller could go ahead and do that without asking me, without me doing it, without an attorney doing it.

And that's what the or Yes. To me, the the ore is not ambiguous in this case. It's clear what they want. Wow. So we have the

I just want to say that this is a embarrassment of how things should be running. Think about in the future as people have brought out how do we know that the other actors in these roles are going to act in good faith. We don't know that and this leaves room for error and and disregard of people's lives. or to deliver education, energy use, these things. So should be impact these will impact people's lives, our children's lives down the line that we don't know. And I mean, as Miss Gillian just said, like this is literally the reason why we came. It should be common sense. It doesn't make any sense. It leaves room for for people to just push their own. I mean, if if if the count if the controller already proposes most of the financial

legislation, it doesn't make any sense why they would also have the power to just sign it. And I guess I also have a question about what are the bounds on if they just don't sign it like what are the repercussions if they decide to just not sign it? Are there any like what are the rules and responsibilities and requirements if they end up?

Oh yes. Yeah. Like I mean is is that a concern like it's a concern of mine? Yes. Yes.

City attorney or the council member that signs the the ordinance or resolution that's being sent to the clerk has to sign off on either the council member or me or the city attorney that's doing the ordinance or the resolution. The next step then would be either that attorney or that council member or the controller would be filing it. already been signed off and reviewed by an attorney and a council member. And then section B has to do with filing. So it's really adding an additional person that could do the filing after it's been approved by an attorney or council member. So that's correct.

There's not a signature. Okay. It still stands. I just don't think that this should even be a conversation. I mean, this is the fourth time. Like, it just is ridiculous and it's just a waste of time. Like, we all go home. We're hungry. Yeah.

Any more questions? Ready to vote on the amendment? I am. Roll call, please. Mr. Garrett, no. Mr. Dishman.

No. No. Mr. Mason. No. How? No. Mr. Macintosh. No. Mr. Yes. Mr. No. President Green. No. So now the adoption of the ordinance right un amended is on the table. Yes. We amended on the table. We we amended section Amended

as amended section A. Amendment number one. Okay. Okay. Point of Did we ever vote on Council Person Salvation? Yes, we did. We did. We did. Yes, we did. Yes. I didn't think we did. I didn't. I thought we voted on my second of amendment and then we had more discussion. Right. I didn't know that we voted on. We did. No, we didn't. I don't think we did Sarah. I mean um doors first amendment was to add the city controller. The second amend the secondary amendment was to add city controller that pertains to financial pertains to

not secondary but the second amendment that was made was to add the city controller again and then at or and that one just failed but the first amendment passed 54 right? Am I correct? Okay. Yes. All right. Yes. So, we need an amendment, Mr. President, to um adopt the resol or the ordinance as amended before we move on. Is that correct, counselor? No. Not to take over the meeting, but why would we need an amendment to adopt? I think

we don't need amendment to adopt. We've amended it. We've accepted it. We're ready to move on. But don't we need a motion to adopt the ordinance as amended? Yes, correct. That is correct. So, you make Are you making that? I make a motion we adopt 326 as amended. And explain. I want you to say out loud what that amendment is again to the public. Miss Selby, it's your amendment. is to add the controller and then you had a different that one failed. So your amendment is the only one that's standing. My my amendment failed. No, she asked my secondary amendment it also failed. Right. Okay.

So your amendment is the only one standing and they would like to know what exactly it is you. It's just adding the controller to the signing to one of the people that can sign the um ordinances or resolutions. So it's adding the controller to every piece of legislation that is in is sub is submitted. Yes, that was what I So the the motion has been made to to uh to adopt the ordinance as amended. And is there a second? Is there a second? Second.

Okay, we have a second. control. Any more questions? Yeah, read it as amended. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Love you too. I don't even know where I put that. So stressful. Okay. Sorry. Just a minute.

Yeah. Well, okay. Um, so I just added a paragraph A. The city clerk shall not accept for filing any ordinance or resolution to be considered by the common council unless it has been approved by a written signature of a member of common council, the city controller, and has been approved by a city attorney and a attorney of the common council. So I just added that there. So Mr. President, go ahead.

So that means that this amendment is saying that this that this ordinance as amended is saying that it a the controller has to sign every single amendment and or I mean I'm sorry ordinance and resolution that is brought to us. Can I say something?

And Mr. President, isn't that what we voted on by voting on that amendment? Isn't that what we did? We voted in favor of this amendment 54. The ordinance, however, had already been motioned and seconded. So now we need to act on my motion to amend. And there's been a second. Is that correct?

Right. So now we are you are the ordinance as amended. Okay. Okay.

It still has the problem. I know.

Did you read that? Yeah, I will read it again. Sorry. Yep. Let me let me read.

Somebody can prevent the filing. Okay. the can but it seems to me that it cannot go forward if it cannot be vital. So that gives that person in the same way in Congress. Could you clarify that for us

once again? An hour and a half ago, I said you guys are elected officials. That controller is appointed. Don't give them that control over a council like this. I said that part of the executive branch. Correct. You all are the legislative branch. Correct. By doing that, you are you are adding an executive member to be able to not sign off on an ordinance and therefore then it can't be filed.

In the future, maybe council have besides minutes maybe like a journal proceedings or something so that people can follow what's going on. Just one thing. Yes. Okay. I have a question. Yes. So, if the the if the ordinance fails to pass as amended, then it then it's dead and it never existed. Correct. So, in essence, by by motioning to amend this

and having all this discussion It kills the bill. If

you were saying something, counselor, I'm more thinking out loud. Okay. About options. Okay. Whether or not you can There's no there's no more amendments already on, right? anymore. So you can vote on the ordinance. Okay.

Ordinance has already been this is shameful. Yeah, that ordinance is gone and I think would need to be properly would need to be it's already been introduced. suspend rules and reintroduce back up. I'm not 100% sure. I don't have that. The only thing that's being voted on right now is the Would it be beneficial to table the ordinance?

That way it's not destroyed. as amended. May May, may may I Mr. President? Go ahead. Originally, when I requested a tableabling of the ordinance was to give our city clerk an opportunity to have some input because her office is most affected by the by the whole filing process.

What about our lives? and well I but I want her to impact I want to have an impact on this so it makes it more efficient for her and for us that was the only reason why I suggested the tableling Mr. President I'm not having a conversation with okay then okay then you call it you Mr. Bashim has the floor. Let him finish, please.

No, no. I I finished what I had to say because I thought it was important new information as we deliberated on this ordinance. New completely to me. I had never heard our city clerk say that she had not been asked to have input on this ordinance. It's okay. Don't worry about my opinion. It doesn't matter. But it does. You're an elected. you're elected to do this job and that was why I I suggested the tableabling. But here we are. We have the option of voting on a um the ordinance as amended

is is tableabling another option. I'm I honestly I I'm not sure when your first motion to table was made. What was it was early on, but it was voted down. So that's all right. I mean,

it was before I made the amendment. It was after we voted on the on Ro Miss Selvy's amendment and then um Belinda made the comment as as approp as uh appointed by the the president that she had had no input and it was astonishing to me that that would be the case. I would have imagined that she would have been a part of that conversation. My my input is I would like all the signatures on one page, not three separate pages. And I would like there be a deadline on the electronic and whenever we have a contract, I want that included in the file.

I don't get the documents I need to share to the public. That's all I wanted to input. Thank you. That was the reason why I really wanted to table it. Yeah. But but right now we here we are. We're here to vote.

Motion to table the adoption as amended. Mr. President. Yes. So if you're really and truly serious about wanting to work with the clerk, wanting to make this more transparent and real, then you all should vote against this. you should vote no on this because that's the only way it's going to go away. And then if you want to work with the clerk on something that's real, we can do it at that point.

You have comment.

Yes. So I would urge you to vote against this to encourage the conversation. I think we have four things that have come from this. We as a body want to make sure the legislation we're putting forward is legal. We agree that lawyers should be looking at it. We also agree that there's a value resource and our clerk could probably help us catch some resources. Is there a way to work that into processes and procedures in this filing? We want to make sure there's enough money and I think that this is conversations that are already happening or could happen. Doesn't necessarily need to be in this ordinance, but I think this is something that you all agree on and whatever comes forward that could be part of that conversation. And I think we want to get back to the main point of the ordinance was that we are encouraged as representatives in the community that the ordinances are put forward under the ownership of the author of those. And so I regret asking that this get voted down, but it's been so much change. I think we do need to start from scratch.

Um I love democracy. It is so messy. Um we've learned a lot from this meeting, but I don't see how we Yeah. Let me ask There was a motion. Yes. So, we need to vote. Okay. May I ask another question? And and anybody he said from everybody we need to vote. Okay. Call for vote. Said we need to vote. Okay. Roll call. No

Mr. Garrett. No. No. Yes. No. Mr. Mason. No. No.

Okay. So now that can be started again. Ordinance 4-26. So stressed out. Okay. Ordinance 4-26. an ordinance fixing the maximum salaries of each and every member of the Muny Police Department of the city of Muny Indiana for the year 2026. I make a motion to adopt ordinance 4-26. I second.

Second by Mr. Garrett. Any anyone wishing to speak on ordinance 4-26?

Mr. Right. Deputy Chief.

Okay. Any questions or comments from council? Anyone in the audience? Sharing seeing and hearing none. Roll call, please. Yes.

President. Yes. Okay. No new ordinances. Do you have resolution? Yeah. 1-26. Yes. Resolution 1-26. Resolution of approval for the 2025 changes to the official zone maps for the city of Muny. Mr. President, I um move that we adopt resolution 1-26.

I'll second that. Okay. Would you speak on this order or resolution? Excuse me. So in 2025 there were 12 resonings that came before you. our change and approve those res.

Okay. Any questions from council? Thank you. Anyone from the audience? Roll call, please. Mr. Dash. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Garrett. Yes. Mr. Green. Yes. Yes. Macintosh. Yes. Mason. Yes. Yes. Okay. Resol resolution 226.

Resolution 226. A resolution of the common council of the city of Muny, Indiana, approving the collective bargaining agreement with the Greg Winners Memorial Fraternal Order of Police Lodge number 87. Mr. President, I move we adopt uh resolution 2-26. Okay. Someone wishing to speak.

I'll make this very very brief as uh I'm sure we're all tired. Um again, this is a good step in the right direction. Um, I've spoken with all of you. Um, we know that we have to remain competitive. Anderson is going to make our job difficult the next three years with what they are doing with their police department and the competitive salaries that they put up for the next three years going to 2029. Um, and with them being so close and our basically our sister agency in size and population have be competitive. I appreciate your vote in favor of this contract and I stand for any questions. Yes.

We had just discussed and I just wanted on public record that the the union made concessions in order to meet this agreement. Correct.

Yes. Like like every contract, at least the ones that I've negotiated, there's always concessions on the union side. Um, our concessions had to do with trying to reduce the overtime costs, um, which restricted when officers can schedule vacation and things like that to try and increase staffing. Um, we also have a uniform change that's coming and the way the contract currently reads is if a uniform change happens, the city has to purchase all new uniforms. Um we said for this year there'll be no grievances under that. One of those gains was that our clothing allowance was increased. That was a that was a concession that we made a few years ago to try and help the city with retirey insurance. So basically getting back what we had already conceded years ago.

I just wanted that people to know that you they were give and take. Any anyone else with questions? Thank you. comments from public. What kind of percentage are we looking at for a raise on the police officers? Do we have the money for that controller? Yes. Okay. I just want to make sure we have the money for that. I% know.

Thank you. Anyone else? Roll call, please. Yes. Yes.

Any other business? Seeing and hearing none, entertain. for adjournment. Second. Okay. Ajourned.