Shoreline Regional Park Community - Regular Meeting

Okay. I'm gonna now call to order this Wednesday fifth or Wednesday, 05/13/2026 meeting of the City Of Mountain View's Parks and Recreation Commission and Urban Cloister Board. Allison Quinn, will you please conduct a roll?

Mister Bryant. Yes. Mister Davis.

Here.

Mister Schlester. Here. Mister Schumer. Here. And chair of

the chair. Here.

K. Moving on to the minutes. These are the minutes from the 04/08/2026 meeting. First, let's see. Is there any public comment on those minutes?

Seeing none, is there a motion?

So moved.

I second.

Moved by Commissioner Bryant, seconded by Commissioner Summer.

Okay. Commissioner Bryant? Yes. Commissioner Davis? Yes. Commissioner Sylvester? Yes. Vice chair Summer?

Yes. Chair?

Yes. Alright. Oral communications from the public. This portion of the meeting is reserved for persons wishing to address the commission on any matter not on the agenda. Speakers are limited to three minutes, and state law prohibits the commission from acting on non agenda items. If anyone would like to provide public comment, please fill out a blue card. And for those who are online, please use the raise hand feature, and also Flynn will recognize you. Is there any public comment in the room? Okay. No. I'm

I

will close public comment. We are now gonna move on to item 5.1, which is the public safety building project twenty forty nine. This is coming back to us for a second time. The process tonight, we will have a staff report, then PRC will have opportunity for questions. We'll have public comment.

Then there'll be PRC discussion and deliberation and then a motion and a vote. And I believe that we need to take care of this one tonight because it's going to council, early next month. So, with that, I will, turn it over to, I believe, Naveen Govind, and David Princi will also be here helping out.

Yes. Thank you. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Naveen Govind, and I'm a senior project manager with the public works. With me here today,

I have David Trinim, a

full project manager with Public Works as well, and Russell Hansen, a public policy manager. We are following following the March 17 PRC, and the design team is working with the the adverse the city average teams have addressed PRC comments that we've received. And tonight, we are here to present the revised mitigation plan. On March 17, staff presented heritage tree mitigation plan, removal of 42 heritage trees with planting 84 trees at two is to one ratio. Commissioner reviewed the mitigation plan and directed staff to return to ERC with the revised mitigation plan focusing on canopy replacement and the preponderance of native trees at a two is to one replacement for heritage tree and one is to one for non heritage tree.

Additionally, staff was directed to explore the placement of mitigation trees, those that do not be accommodated within the project site. Following the part, there are some heat, the court staff wanted to point out two corrections. First correction was thirty two fifty was found to have died. And for safety reasons, it was removed by the CPR team in fall two thousand twenty two. Infection is three number two eleven was mischaracterized as phase three.

It'll still be removed, but at one is to one ratio. So as noted in the March 17 PRC meeting, due to the constraints due to the constraints of the construction of the new public safety building, trees will have to be removed for accommodating the new building as well as maintaining the current operation of the existing building. So for those reasons, 40 heritage trees will be removed and 35 nonhistory trees as well. The plan will project will preserve 20 heritage tree and non heritage 10 non heritage trees. The project will also separate redwood trees and repurpose the reclaimed wood and construction of benches along villa in public spaces.

The trees selected for mitigation plan was selected from the draft biodiversity and urban forest plan. The tree selected estimate project goals, the desired aesthetic and no water use, as well as addressing long term concentration commonly associated with native species such as mature height, root system impacts, and pest. So in response to the March 17 PRC meeting comments as well as the correction made to the report, 51 sorry. The the native species was increased from nine to 51, and and in 2034 trees. So all the proposed trees were all the proposed trees was able to be planted within the project site, and staff found opportunities to plant three more trees, increasing the total count to 118 trees that includes 18 mitigation trees.

Tree canopy study was also conducted. The goal was to make sure that proposed canopy trees, proposed canopy for the trees needs or exceeds the existing canopy. So after conducting the analysis, you

know,

at ten, fifteen years maturity, the proposed trees will exceed the existing canopy by about 1.5%. Here are the proposed trees. We have added two native trees, valley oak and to the palate, and this includes 34 oak trees. This concludes our presentation. We have no questions, comments.

Alright. Any questions from commissioners? Just I have

a couple of quick questions. The on your canopy calculations, how is

that performed?

Would you take the number of trees times radius to come up with the chain figure?

That's fine. So, typically, what ultimately, the calculation itself was done by the contractor that we had, the landscape designer that was doing this. But, typically, the way that's calculated is you take the tree at maturity, and you estimate kind of when that tree will reach that maturity size, and then you kind of extrapolate out if you want five years, ten years, fifteen years. But fifteen is typically what we're using because that's about the half life. Absolutely.

We get in some of

our oaks. We get into some of our other ones. They will get much larger even past that thirty years. But a lot of the species we're talking about here, thirty years is kinda when they're gonna reach maturity. So we kind of halved what that canopy would be at the first.

And then saying that was the

same that was used for the existing? You you counted the trees and multiplied by

No. In terms of the existing, it was just what is actually on-site currently, 26% or whichever the number was, was what is existing. Potential. Pardon?

Was that calculated Based on the aerial survey.

On the aerial survey. Correct. Yeah.

It's an existing measurement. And I would just add that while that does not account for some additional growth out of those trees, a lot of those are kind of past that fifteen to twenty years or get close to their mature sizes. So there's gonna be some growth, but not as significant as we see from young trees to that moderate.

And is the percentage based on the higher site boundary or just the the the part without structure?

Do you know the answer to that?

Site boundary.

Yeah. I was gonna say that's typical as

you take the site boundary and

assess that entire site. Thanks.

Just last question is when would you expect the freeze to be removed? We

are targeting to start demolition end of this year. So in November is when we're start. So sometime early spring next year, we're gonna remove the trees

early spring. And to be clear, it'll be done in phases. So the the the frontage along the Villa corner of Franklin, that whole frontage is where the initial development will take place. The remaining site needs to remain in operation. So we still have please need a place to live in one. So we're not gonna, be removing trees generally in those areas initially. So for the ones that are marked to be removed would take place in a later phase, after the initial building was built on Villa,

the frontage. Okay.

I was, I'm sure my friends with the Berta Alliance would those. But I noted in the environmental impact statement that according to the federal market for bird treaty act and the California Fish and Game Code, the contractor has to indicate all the nesting birds on the plans. And during the breeding season between February 1 and August 31, certain I I think you have to have a biologist participating in that. Is that

We have provisions in our standard specifications for every project. Okay.

That that address those.

Okay. Great. Thank you. Any other questions? Yes. Go ahead.

Thank you. Or no. Go ahead. Fine. So I also had questions about timing, which are partly my lack of clarity and partly questions that that, residents have asked me. So many people thought that this project was kind of sometime in the future, that it wasn't completely funded, and there was going to be time to agonize. So but so the project is funded. It's moving forward. The construction or the demolition, I guess, is the first stage is happening

this year. Yeah. So I

can I can walk you through the timeline? As I explained earlier, this project is being built in in packages. So the first package is a a site, we call it a site preparation and building pad preparation package, as well as a temporary parking struct or not structured parking lot in Lot 11 across the street. So we first have to clear the area in in the frontage along Villa and prepare the site for receiving the the new building. And before we do that, we also have to build some parking capacity across the street and and so that people can continue to access the existing and operational, admin building during construction.

So we'll build the three story building along Villa for so there's a site clearing for about six months and then a two year plus process, for building the the building. And then and only then once they can move into that building, we can vacate the existing facility and clear the back two thirds of the site for development, for site improvements, and the parking garage. And so the overall timeline is the first, package with construction would commence on or about this fall of twenty twenty six, and the final, package or construction would be

the the

parking garage, and that would be completed, we hope, around 2031. So it's it's a lengthy process.

So, would you mind, bringing up the slide that had, the possibly this one. The

The existing trees?

Yeah. I mean

Good thing or new?

No. The existing trees that that, readily brought that that people are really concerned about, that's not actually the footprint of the building, or is it?

The second one shows

the existing building.

That's the existing. There's the new layout. Alright.

Okay. That answers that. And then And we're we're we're talking here

about a

100 trees or so to be replanted. When in the general, when is the time frame for doing that replanting? You obviously have demolition and construction to do.

Right. So and, again, these are ballpark, of course, time frames. Based on the prior time frame I explained, we would probably not plant we would plant maybe some of the trees, the street trees after the main building was completed along villa. Mhmm. So the trees that are on so so we say the left side of the building would be planted, on or about, 2029, I'm praying.

So four years or so.

Yeah. Two and a half.

Okay. Great. Okay. Those were my questions.

Summer. I wanted to, ask, Russell to talk a little bit about your experience with that Regal Prince oak and why why it seemed to be a good match for this project.

Sure. Sure. So it it's not one that I'm super familiar with. Ultimately, we planted probably 50 to a 100 of those in the San Jose area before I left San Jose to come here. So I've got a limited amount of experience.

I'm gonna say for probably close to about six or seven years they've been in the ground that we've seen them locally in San Jose and how they perform. But, ultimately, to kinda get to the nuts and bolts of why we selected those, again, as we can kind of look at the drawings that we have there, the one on the right with the proposed free canopy, you can see the lower right of the diagram that that area in particular is one that's not gonna be developed as a part of this project. And so what we were trying to do is provide that shape for the roadway that goes into the parking garage into the parking lot to the left of that while preserving as much of that space as we can. And so what we did is we chose columnar trees that rather than taking them if if we were to plant a Quercus agrofolia, that canopy gets to be 70 plus 70 p feet plus in width. And so, typically, we would offset that 35 feet from the garage, then it grows another 35 feet out into that lot.

Ultimately, that would perhaps prohibit construction in the future. If it's another police building or otherwise, that's gonna prohibit that. And so what we wanted to do is keeping in mind that we don't wanna plant trees to only come back fifteen, twenty, thirty years later and remove them. We kind of pre anticipated some development there and chose those regal princes for that reason on their canopy shape. Above and beyond that, again, semantics or otherwise, you can talk about oak trees and acorns and what the squirrels will like and what they won't like, but the habitat benefit ultimately is going to be very similar, short of the canopy size in that.

I'll say nesting habitat. That is the one limitation that those will have compared to a quercus agrofoli or a co saliva. But, ultimately, that was why. Again, the only other thing I would add on that is there was a limited kind of planting strip on the parking lot side that if we were to plant the agrofolias or otherwise, again, I'm just concerned that thirty, forty years down the road, the root systems, the root flares on those are ultimately gonna start to eat sidewalks, cause damage. And, again, just based on my prior experience, while they're tolerant of some root pruning, significant root pruning of larger roots, six, eight, ten, twelve inches, definitely has an impact on the oaks, and it requires a lot of mitigation, watering, or otherwise to kind of help them recover first from significant root pruning.

Right. And so it's a sounds like it's a deciduous tree, and it does produce acorns.

Yes. Correct.

And so being up there really close to the parking garage, is that all above ground, or some of it extend below ground? All above ground. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So that will be foundation to think about that. Correct.

Yeah. And and, ultimately, that's another consideration. While using a columnar tree, it's going to have a smaller root system. It just does not need to spread as much to get all the nutrient water, etcetera, let alone to stabilize itself, then it can hold itself with a little bit tighter root ball. So that will be a benefit as well.

And what what is the spacing that you're showing there? I didn't get out my little ruler.

On which ones? Are talking about the Regals?

Regal Prince Oaks.

I I can't say for certain because I don't remember the dimensions specifically, but typically what I recommend is about 75% of canopy of maturity. So in those cases where they're at 20, 20 of canopy of maturity, we'd look to be about 15 foot on the stack. Okay.

Alright. And so it's probably safe to say that they're doing a fair bit of screening at the ground level of that parking garage, which this can be sort of ugly. You know? Yeah.

Correct. Instead of having a three story structure, you'll have some good screening on it for six to nine months out of the year. Where it goes deciduous, not as much. You'll have just the branches.

But And

that tree gets to be how tall?

I'm gonna say 50 feet. Okay. Maybe 40 or so.

Could be. And what what's the height of the parking garage?

It's 45 or so? 50 or so?

Someday it may.

Okay. So maybe 50 to 60. So it might not cover it completely, but it'll get the majority of it.

Yeah. Alright. And so you were calling a 24 inch box, but it looks like you can get them there. So those are cheaper usually.

Sure.

Alright. Those were my closing questions.

Sebastian. Thank

you. Sticking with the the Regal Prince theme, I understand the practicalities of its size and its shape. But in the report, I think it said that Mountain View prefers oaks or likes oaks. There was some nod to preferring oaks as a tree in Mountain View. I think a lot of members of the public and myself as well would have preferred a native tree that had similar physical characteristics. I completely understand needing to keep open the front area for, you know, plans TBD, but I would have loved to have seen a native tree of that that could fit the same requirements.

Understood.

Any other questions?

Well, I I have a question, if that's okay. Russell, what do you mean by habitat value? You mean shade.

Well, ultimately, when we look at habitat, is is it a food source? Does it provide shelter? Does it provide things for the environment? You can also get to the root system ultimately and how that fractures the soil, etcetera, that that encourages the microorganisms and all of our little bugs and so forth. And so that's what I mean by habitat is all of those different aspects. There's many of them, but those are just, you know, three, four, five of them. If we go back to kind of the north base or palette that I think you guys are all kind of familiar with, those are those different columns that we have there that it talks about those different aspects. You know, in the future, we'll have all that stuff for you guys as we develop some of our client tickets, etcetera. We'll give

you more specifics on that. Very good. Thanks. So I just had two quick ones. Actually, Jonathan sort of got my my first one, but just to I mean, basically, since since the existing tree and the canopy coverage calculation, since the existing trees are deemed to not be growing at all, If anything, the calculation understates a little bit, but it's apples to apples across essentially across the two. So, I mean, the 27% might be a point 9% or something like that

because the existing It is a s

Yeah. But,

I mean, they are gonna grow. Yeah. So, okay. And then my other question, this was to follow-up on Ronit's question, which I didn't maybe I missed it. In in terms of the funding for the project, you talked about the different phases. But is has funding source have a has a funding source been identified for all phases of this project? Is it I mean, yes.

That that's what I

K.

I have one question.

Go ahead.

Would, public works staff be able to describe the typical, guarantee that upon a landscape contractor would include, you know, you would require them in terms of taking care of the trees after they're planted?

Most public works projects have, usually, a ninety day establishment period for all landscaping. But for all public works contracts, we have buildings and parks through including the landscaping systems, irrigation system, etcetera. It's a standard one year from date of, final acceptance where they have to come back and address any deficiencies. If something dies, if something is, you know, deemed to be sub subpar, they have to come back and address, defects. We we would consider it be a latent defect in my installation.

So if a tree were to die during that first year, the contractor would have to replace it at no cost to the city. And then after that, I'm assuming it would be turned over to the forestry crews, you know, parks maintenance and who are experienced at taking care of trees and monitoring.

That's why we involve them early on to help

selections of Okay.

You know, make them unhappy.

Thank you.

Have actually

one question. I know it's not part of the plant because it's a tree mitigation strategy, but is there a plan for the rest of the landscaping? I know there's a big grass area for the canines, but is there a plan for, like, planting more native shrubs and other

lower level plants up to

the trees?

So the the plant the the full landscape planting plan is it is currently in development. It's being finalized and will certainly be, developed in concert with the recently completed biodiversity plan. And so we're taking very close, you know, monitoring that very closely, and it's coming to fruition. It's just I think it's scheduled to be adopted June. And so Mhmm. That'll be perfect timing because we'll we won't be completing the the final plans, until later in the fall, through the main building and the rest of the site. So we have time to incorporate.

Those developments. I have one more question, really specifically relevant to the, basically, the development of the plant pellets and the expertise and staff is planning to get on on biodiversity. Why would you need to develop the the building, of course, no question about that, the infrastructure for the building, the building itself. The planting that will not happen for three years, why does that planting need to be in place rather than a general budget budgetary idea of how much it would cost?

Well, I mean, you make a a good point, but, there's a relationship between those two things. Obviously, we make a selection based on water use. We have to submit plans, to the building department that include our irrigation system, including all our water calculations. But we would have to get somewhat specific about what we're planting, the density, the the general plant types. I mean, certainly, there could be some changes or tweaks, but, I think they prefer us to have that sorted out so that we can submit, yes, we're, low water use, and and can prove it, to some level of specificity.

Okay. Thank you.

Anything else?

I think you want if you want

me to ask you about that. I can

feel it. I can feel it. So the December 23 council meeting when they reviewed the concept and made all their inputs on this, They articulated a preference for curbing landscape forms. I think it's a, you know, naturalistic layout, landscape curves with natural forms contrasting with the building. And what I see is a fairly rectilinear layout. Was that disregarded, not remembered, decided otherwise?

Well, I and thanks for the question. I think what's not shown here because, again, it's just showing the trees. And I I would preface that by saying one of the big challenges of this project is that we had to develop the building, you know, in a certain program for what size of building and features, qualities it had to have. And then we also had to build it while the other the rest of the site was still in operation. So it didn't afford us the ability to have a great deal of setback.

That said, the architect has developed and and and unfortunately, we can't it's not shown here in this in this document, but there is some curve linear, feeding as well as, sort of landscape elements and, plantings areas that, you know, again, are actually have more curves to them and are due contrast with the very rectilinear features of the building, and they're just not represented here on on the street tree plan. We look forward to presenting that to council along with an update to the garage design in the fall. And we we trust that you'll find that we have addressed that point here.

Else? Okay. Is there any public members of the public who would like to speak to this? We've gotten a couple emails, and we've read those. Anybody in the room want to speak?

We have one hand up for

Okay. Bruce.

Hello, Bruce.

Hi, all. Bruce England was in the station drive and a member of Green Spaces Mountain View. I'm gonna be very quick. We submitted a letter. Green Spaces did. And I hope that you will that you've had a chance to look at it or will have a chance to look at it in in Russell and others too. I think we are pretty aware of the things that the city and Russell are in community services that and you PRC, what you're thinking about and the various kinds of limitations and challenges. We're aware of those and still we think it's important for the community to weigh in and leverage our own expertise out here and and share it with you. So I just wanted to highlight that and also to say that I personally support the letter. Thank you.

Thanks, Bruce.

Next, we have Rashmi.

Hello, Rashmi.

Hello. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Great. Yeah. So Rashmi Sahai, also with Green Spaces Mountain View, also kind of speaking to some of the points of the letter that we submitted. I, do appreciate the increase from nine to 51 native trees in the plan, but I feel like that since more than half, 67 of the 118 mitigation trees are not native, I still think there's opportunity for improvement. I appreciate the discussion and the questions about the Regal Prince Oaks, but I'm not quite satisfied with the answer.

I understand that you guys are trying to meet certain shape preferences, and creating kind of a wall on that side. But I with with 200 native tree species in California, I feel that there must be other options out there that could also hopefully meet some of those things that you're looking for in that space. Also, I would say that, you know, it's not necessarily the number of trees that are as important for biodiversity and for shade and all the benefits that we look to from trees. It's, the canopy that provides the best benefits. And, you know, I think that there could be there there could be some value in thinking about how do we maximize the canopy even if that means that some of not all of the 118 trees will fit on the project boundary.

And if that allows for planting native oaks as opposed to the Regal Prince oaks, then so much the better. I also wanted to comment on this comment about create that the Regal Prince oaks are gonna be creating habitat. They they probably will be creating habitat for some species like squirrels and other species that thrive in a suburban environment, but it's they're unlikely to create the same amount of habitat that native plants will just because these trees have not coevolved with insects for, you know, thousands of years. And therefore, a lot of, a lot of the kind of basis of the food chain is not there. The insects cannot feed on the leaves, and therefore, they cannot thrive, and the animals that rely on insects cannot thrive.

So I just wanted to kind of call that out there that there are levels of habitat, and I don't think that the regal prince oaks will provide anywhere close to what native species will provide. Thank you for clarifying the timeline. It sounds like there's gonna be some stages in terms of cutting down the trees and replanting the trees, so I appreciate that. And I would just encourage that we leave the trees in the ground as long as they can, And I appreciate all the other questions that were, answered. So thank you so much.

Thank you, Rashmi.

There's nobody else online.

Nobody else? One more chance in the room. Okay. I'm gonna close public comment and bring it back to the urban I guess, are we on this one, we're the parks and rec parks and rec commission discussion. Are we the forestry board on this one? Yeah. I guess it is true. Sorry. Alright. We're both.

I'll be

happy to start

since nobody else will join again.

So

I I'd like to start by by talking about the Ringel Prince Oaks. And just as a personal my personal reaction to having these trees chosen because of the city's preference for oaks.

That

is not what the community was talking about when we mentioned oaks. I personally talk about oaks all the time. I know it. And I don't say locally native oaks because it's always seemed completely obvious to me. It's not that I want oaks.

It's that I want locally native oaks, which is what belongs here, which is what nourishes the soul, which is what supports the supports the birds, supports the caterpillar, supports the insects, supports what lives in the soil. And so having an oak tree because it's an oak when it's a hybrid of an English oak and a white swamp oak is really is really contrary to what we have in the biodiversity plan to the point where it's almost embarrassing to say the city wants oaks, so here's this a hybrid oak. As Rashmi said, the these oaks will maybe make the squirrels happy, but they will not support the caterpillars, the birds, the the various insects that live live in the soil. They also don't even look like bugs. You know, if I wanted clumps, I would get clumps.

So this has pushed pushed a lot of buttons for me, and I find I find a choice that is very regrettable. Now on to to more positive things. I'm really happy to see how many, native trees have been added. That's great. I I really appreciate that.

And, there is a preponderance of native trees. There are more native trees, not a huge amount of native species of native species, but there are more native trees. My own sense about this plant palette, and it it may have been obvious for my questions, is this cannot be the final plan, but, the numbers the the mitigation numbers are fine. This is what the city usually talks about. This this response to the usual requirements.

But as Rashmi said, which I completely agree with, it's not really the number of trees. It's the amount of canopy. And I looked into canopy calculations. I didn't use a calculator, but, frankly, I always find the canopy calculations very surprising. The results are never in any way intuitive.

I I was on council pushing for canopy calculations to be included in plants, and I thought I would get results that would be really helpful. And I have never found them helpful in any way, so there we go. My my sense about where we are with this is I have no interest in slowing down the project. This is a project that needs to move forward. Building has needed to be rebuilt or built a new, for a very long time.

I have no interest in slowing down the process. And the mitigation that is being proposed numbers is fine, but the plant for let is mostly unacceptable to me. And the good news is that we have a biodiversity plan that I'm expecting council to approve of. And the biodiversity plan is full of immediate action plans that we're all very happy with. Staff is building plant collects, which is wonderful.

The heritage tree ordinance is going to be looked at again. And we have talked about the difference between trees as numbers and trees as providers of canopy, and that maybe it's not about the numbers, it's about the canopy and the benefits. So over the next two, three years, I really expect a lot of learning change and improvement in what the city is doing. We have it written down a plan that we are all all happy with. I I could live with moving this forward on the understanding that the plant palette is looked at again in two to three years whenever the building is ready.

And then based on the experience that that staff has gained on the new plants and palettes that the that staff has put together, then it comes back to the PRC in public meetings to discuss a new plan for that. I to me, not an engineer, not public works, it seems that that would the pro the process continue, but we would end up with a much better result. This is a $200,000,000 public facility. This has to be the best. We we have to do really well with so much money.

And even not with so much money, but it it will be visible. It's an important facility. We need to make it as good as possible. So that's where I am at this point.

Thank you. Anybody wanna follow that?

Connection? Oh my god.

A couple brief comments. I meant to say this earlier. I wanted to thank staff for bringing this back to us, after two months. I think we all really appreciate the effort put in. I just wanted to start with that.

But I also concur with virtually all of what commissioner Bryant said. I like the idea of bringing this back to look at the plant palette before things are finalized, particularly with the Regal Prince trees, which my understanding would be in the because they're near mostly near the parking garage would be the last phase or the the second phase of the project. I really hope we can look at a plant palette, not just the trees, but the entire planting landscape, and take a look through the biodiversity plan lens and the new plant palette lens instead of just saying, well, finish what we're doing with trees today and consider this done. I think I'll leave it with that. Thank you.

Good. Anyone? Why don't you come in? No. You. You want me to Mhmm. Know

my I tried. It's coming. Today.

I can

see. You you heard my diatribe, and, yeah, you can probably hear it yet. Okay. So we swapped some, maples for some dahlium. So we swapped some Carolina cherry laurels from Yeah.

Lineup of plants.

So thank you for making some adjustments. I don't see really materially significant change to the plant,

but that's

okay. My comments first of all, I'd

like to acknowledge that and

the work you've done. Very professional. My really, my comments are directed at council, this one and future ones. And I know the focus is on mitigation, but I probably have a slightly different emphasis than some of my colleagues that are more focused on the activity of the plants. As previously stated, my concerns are more about the initial site plan and the loss of that would go than the mathematics of tree replacements.

At least until the heritage tree ordinance is revised when ever that may be. Redwoods have a unique status, both in the perception of the public and statute poorly in the ordinance. For many people, these trees are symbols of nature's grandeur, ecological identity of California. And we understand that with changing climate, that redwoods probably aren't gonna be appropriate in many locations, and we probably won't be planting many new ones. But on this site, we're not talking about individual specialty tree.

We're talking about vibrant, healthy, redwood grow with roughly a dozen trees clustered together at the edge of the property. In the middle of Downtown Mountain View, and it's an extraordinary environmental resource. And what makes redbuds remarkably special is that they don't exist as isolated trees, but they function as a cooperative ecological system. They share structure and ecological support through interconnected root systems. It might cool rise punctual networks of this underground system.

The trees literally communicate with each other. It's it's an interdependence that is such a powerful symbol of resilience. And in a highly urbanized downtown environment, this growth is unique. It's a tragedy to cut it down, I and don't see a commensurate mitigation reflected. The staff memo clearly explains the constraints.

These have to be removed to accommodate public safety building, and that's modern life. But the project exposes the broader policy. And I'll give council a pass because this plan was conceptually approved before the biodiversity plan was developed. But at that December 23 conceptual approval meeting, you know, council deliberated extensively about the architectural motifs and the historical preservation, public art, and the aesthetics. But as for the environmental site planning, it wasn't really considered other than to stipulate a preference for some purity plant parts.

That has to change. This city spent an enormous amount of resources, hundreds of thousands of you know, a million dollars on

when you consider the the

$800,000 consultant and and many staff hours on this biodiversity and urban forest vision that's intended to find our environmental values and priorities. So I'm certain that if at that time, the requirements were put in place, we wanna preserve that growth programmatically. You could develop that site. You could design that site complete with the staging to accommodate that. It just wasn't done.

And and that can't be the case moving forward. Otherwise, we risk becoming a city that adopts symbols, slogans, paper plans, but doesn't consistently integrate those values into an actual planning decision. So I wanna emphasize I don't also don't wanna delay the plan. I support a modern public safety bill. And I fully support my fellow commissioners if they choose to move this project along. It's been encouraged to do. Of course. No. Encouraged. But, personally, I don't feel comfortable with the objects of the unanimous support, for the staff resolution.

Not to say that not trying to be obstinate, but I I feel strongly that this message has to be conveyed, and this is the only way I know how to do it. So I do thank you for your efforts. I won't support a mitigation plan that's proposed. I do have other comments about the planting, but I think my primary point is to send a message to counsel. End of diatribe.

Unless you want more comments. Whatever you want. I'll let commissioner summer.

Good morning. Okay. Thank you. I I completely support the replacement of the Public Safety Building. It's going to be really important for emergency response going forward.

And with with that that replacement on the same site comes some difficult choices. And I I am I am troubled by the choice of removing things. That Redwood Grove is really not only a nice grove, but it's right there at the entrance to the downtown, and it really does have a big visual impact. Kind of sets the tone for things. And and and that's difficult.

There's also a couple of really nice valley oaks that are right in building footprint, and that's very difficult to support removing those. I think that all along and so I do agree with commissioner Davis that all along, there's just been sort of more practical look at this and not thinking about what the site design should really be. You know? We need this many car. It's been programmatic. We need this many cars. We need this many square feet of building. We need parking garage like this. Need it. It was all very programmatic driven.

And and and I I feel as if we really don't. I don't really have much other choice but to support this mitigation plan. But, I do also agree with it's sort of strange to me to be because biodiversity requires diversity. But then there we are planting, you know, I forget the count, you know, 30 of the same plant. And, you know, while I was sitting here, I thought of two native species that could substitute fairly easily for some of the, regal prince oaks.

There's the Pacific wax myrtle, which is gonna stay smaller, and then the Catalina ironwood, which gets just as big. And, yes, it's from the Channel Islands, but it's still a California plant that does quite well in Mountain View. That will get as tall as those Eagle Oaks. It's relatively narrow, and it will provide some bird and animal and, you know, soil habitat. So I think I'm falling in sort of the realm that, commissioner Bryant described, which is that I'm willing to keep it moving, but I would like to see greater effort, put into the final landscape plan that, you know, looking at all providing kind of, you know, an ecology.

You know, we're almost in a post wild environment. So ecologically, we need to we need to have the ground plane. We need to have the middle plane. We need to have kind of the small tree plane and then the canopy plane. And we need to look at all of those and how they function and the depth of fruits.

And that is how you build a biodiverse planting plan is thinking about the size above the ground and the roots below the ground. So I realize there's a lot of constraints, and I wouldn't expect a native plant to thrive to full extent in the middle of a parking lot. That's just not you know, there will there will be places, that's an example, that we will need to look to climate adapted, you know, probably Mediterranean plants, that will survive better. But I think we can still we can continue the great work progress that we've made between March and now, and we can keep going even further by the time that final plan is prepared. And I don't know where you know, is this the last chance for this to be publicly vetted?

I don't know the answer to that. Council approves the hereditary replacement plan, and the public never sees it again, I guess that would be nice thing to know the answer to, as we figure out, you know, how to keep moving. So I'll just say, you know, I would be in favor of keep keeping it moving, but finding some way to monitor the evolution toward an even better plan.

Alright. So just coming to me, I again, I I I appreciate the, comments of my fellow commissioners. We're, in many cases, more well versed on on specifics of trees than I am. So I I learn a lot. You know, I appreciate I appreciate the revisions to the plan to include more native trees.

I also mister Sylvester made a a statement the last time we we we saw this that resonates with me. You know, that this is a showcase for us. This this is a a project that's on you know, that should model what we want others to emulate in terms of tree canopies and and using native plantings. So while it's important in all buildings, I I think this one is is especially important. Diverting, just just to go in in the direction that others haven't found before.

But, you know, I like the idea of of the redwood benches along the perimeters and the notion of using repurposed wood for some of the earn internal furnishings in the the buildings. And sort of along those lines, others have done show and tell. So I I Santa Clara County Parks recently renovated one of their conference rooms using repurposed wood, and I there are a few pictures of that. Allison.

Yeah. Let

me pull on that.

But it was

a pretty cool design. I mean, was just over there three or four months ago. So that's the that's the conference room, and so the table is from a tree. I'm gonna go to the next one. So that one and we'll have a a better picture of this later on. That's on the on the far wall, that is a they call a a moss a moss wall. So it's actually it's actually living, and it's, you

know,

apparently no upkeep. No pruning. No watering is needed. Again, that's just another picture that the the drink coasters are and I think those mats I can't remember what those mats what the mats are. And then that's a picture of just the the they got a pretty nice cut of anyway, when you go into that room, it's it's it's pretty cool.

And I I think that the the moss walls also a noise what do call it? It absorbs it absorbs sound, so it serves it's nice. It's a striking striking room. Anyway so thanks for showing those. And I have the contacts if you guys want any of those contacts.

So, anyway, I just maybe a a follow-up question as it relates to several of the commissioners' comments, a question to staff. You know, if we were to approve this to keep this moving forward, but request that it come back in two to three years prior to planting for another review of the planting palette, and it would also be after the biodiversity plan was finalized and we had tree lists and and and stuff like that. Is that possible, and how does that look? We didn't necessitate going to council again as well. Or could it just be a PRC item?

And maybe

that's a

director Marshawn question. I'm

gonna allow staff to respond to anything else, and then I'll I'll get to that. But there was some whether it's, related to tree species or otherwise.

So I I can take take a stab at it, if you will. As I explained earlier, know, this project is being bid out in packages. The first package doesn't involve planting any trees. It doesn't involve removal of some. The second package is the construction of the new building along Villa.

And it most certainly would include planting up the street trees and trees around its perimeter. It probably would avoid planting anything on the other side because the next phase of that package is development at the site, parking, and and other, you know, elements of the the site besides the garage. And, typically, you'd wanna avoid planting anything until towards the end of that process so the study would, you know, not be damaged. That said, however, if we're putting out a package to bid and a lot of and depending on this tree selection, you know, in terms of the lead time, getting them you know, they they have building a building for two years, and they know, oh, I'm gonna be plants in '20 late twenty twenty nine. They can put in grow orders and and so forth.

So it it unless these are just literally on the shelf, if you will, so to speak, it does present some challenges for the procurement. So that's just a consideration. And as to the prep as to the policy matters, I I can't speak to that.

I would just add, I haven't been here as long as some others, but, ultimately, I can point to at least two cases where we have constructed projects and alternating species at construction. I will simply say that. So there is a possibility we could consider, or reconsider this at

a later date because of some

of the challenge with availability, things along those lines. That's part of the reason we changed them previously. Again, we're trying to honor the commitments that we made to the PRC, to the city council, etcetera, so we try not to do that too significantly. But we have made some changes in the past is all that I will say.

And to that point and to an earlier point I made, you know, when we go for

a permit

and we put in, you know, how much water use and and a lot of those calculations are based on the species and genus of the tree and their characteristics. So it would narrow the field of choices for alternates. Generally, the billing department is not going to

make it you know,

they don't look at the species on the side, but they will know if we plant in, at least, you know, increase our water usage beyond what we said we would. So there are things that

limit our options. Is

the timing of going out to bid for that second phase?

It's summer of next year. Summer of twenty seven.

'27.

If we look to do something as part of that in timeline with that, would that be sufficient?

We would be going forward with a plans just to put it in context, we're going forward with a plans and spec approval for package one, which is the site clearing, which does not include any. So, theoretically, we could go for a plans and spec approval of package two, which includes the new building and site improvements. And as probably in the fall of twenty early spring of twenty twenty seven, at that time, we would need a decision on trees.

You you could put in a

spec documents, a number of plantings and a budget and such so a contractor could do a bid on unspecified species, could you not?

Generally, yes. If if it's, you know, their equivalent costs and and so forth, depending if they're an exotic, obviously, that would be different.

Possibility. It's a pain, but it's It's interesting you mentioned the so do you is there a water usage calculation that has to be approved?

It's part of the irrigation system plan. I mean, it's yes. That's interesting. We have to account for every drop of water that falls on the site and every drop of water that we use on the site.

And has any of that estimating been done for

this proposed plan?

No. For this package, it's not that's not part there's not much development going on in this first package, which is the site clearing and and building pad preparation. So it's the next package that has all the, you know, the building, of course, and the irrigation systems and and detailed planting plan and so forth. But what we're presenting to you is a tree mitigation plan for the entire site because we typically don't go forward and with these kind of things. So we're going forward as a total as far as the whole project is concerned, this is the tree count that we've arrived at.

Let me just point out, however, that all the trees on the list that you have right now are low water, and that it makes absolutely no sense to expect that we will suddenly because we want native trees at moderate water or high water use. So in terms of water calculations, I assume it's not specific for tree, but it's a category of low water usage.

I'm not a particular expert in that deal, but I'll

No. Ultimately, we do have a list within the industry that is called Wubles Yeah. Water use conservation, etcetera. But if you

know in Wubles categories.

There are categories, but they are also species specific.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Do you have any comments on this?

I am pondering.

So I have a couple things if if, John, you wanna ponder a little bit longer. Okay. So this I've seen so many times in my career as a landscape architect where nobody ever thinks about the landscape till the end. And I think what we're suffering from is there is no master site plan with trees, ground plane, paving areas, and this conceptual design is never done. And the truth is I don't feel like that it's completely the role of the urban forestry board to choose the species.

Ordinarily, we leave that to the director when we start talking about mitigation tools. But but if you were doing a schematic design here, you know, master schematic design, you would probably express kind of the design is one

or three.

Wide canopy, spreading, you know, habitat free. Right? You would categorize like that, and you might have multiple options for that to allow for flexibility going forward and to allow for, you know, unavailability in the trade and less staff to, you know, flex with things as things change. And I feel like something like that would have been an appropriate way to deal with with this project and, you know, get that would give you know, allow us to add to the list, but we wouldn't have to, like, make the final choice because it's not really up to us when you get right down to it. It's up to the council.

So, you know, like, I I don't know if it's too late to switch to that type approach. It probably is, but, I can tell that, you know, that's what we're suffering from. This is the classic type of project where the municipality will put out a contract growing bid way ahead of their, you know, full construction documents, way ahead of their, you know, building plans so that you have five, six, seven years to grow the species. And you can even do that with alternates. You can, you know, provide a a list and say, you know, 70% of each of these will allow your grower to go fill your plant pellet out a bit.

Again, I that's being given to us as a constraint, but it's actually not a constraint. There's a way to work around it by using a contract grow bid out ahead of the project. And, yeah, it does put the city on the line, but the landscaping bid is gonna be a spec compared to the building. It's almost you know, it's trivial to to take the risk of, oops, we bought, you know, too many toy ons. Right?

So I think the good news that we heard that I wanna focus on is that we can fit the mitigation trees on the site. And I think that's fabulous. And, also, it appears that we're able to get them to be at least half native. And that

also I hope

You know, personally, I'd like to go farther than that. But because we don't have a master site plan, we don't really know how much farther we're going in the rest of it. Was that enough time to ponder?

If I if I may.

That's

Within the phase, what, you're calling two

Package two.

Package two. Yeah.

Is that can you explain which set of trees that is? Is it trees for the entire site, or is it the trees for the

Oh, yeah. Let's it'll be I'm gonna complicate this. So there's package two, which has phases. So package two phase one is the building. So we'll be building the building and the frontage along, villa part of Franklin.

And I guess I'll but just you know? Once you get to the back of the building, you have phase two of package two, which is clearing up the back lot, which is the existing building, the city, you know, all the parking for the marked vehicles and all the secure parking areas. So that's a significant phase, and it requires the building to be complete so that staff can move in and we can clear up. So that's and it's after that that you develop the site, everything except for the parking garage, which is package three. That's done last.

So the and we we can help if they put up the graphic, if that's possible, that helps visualize what I'm talking about. So in terms of the trees that are planted first, it would be the ones along Villa, a little bit on Oak. Although the those ones along Oak are mostly existing. I think we have one new tree there. The street trees along, Villa and the trees in the front along Franklin.

We would probably stop, at the corner there of the building, so that the sec the second half of the package too is where we build out the the public parking lot there to the to the right of the building and then the secure parking in the upper right hand corner, including the, police, canine training. Does that answer your question?

Well, his it was it was directly Marshawn's question. So so now that you've heard that Yeah. Please advise.

So I went back into city code. I love doing that. So it says capital improvement projects which propose the removal of any heretics tree shall be submitted by the projects, project staff to city arbors for review and recommendation of appropriate mitigation measures. The government's recommendation shall be forwarded by city project staff to the Urban Forest Board for their recommendation on the number, size, and location of replacement trees. The recommendation of the Urban Forest Board shall be forwarded to city project staff, to the city council for their consideration with the approval of the project.

And I know we have done above and beyond that in in previous, reviews of of our facility. So I just wanted to start with what that says. We're in a new situation here, because, typically, while it says the number size and location of replacement trees is approved by the PRC, the species would be included as part of that bid package to go out. So I'm trying to understand if there are if there are concerns from the PRC with what is considered to be the, like, the first planting that would be happening of of that species and locations is where I'm trying to get so that we can move forward and assist the public works director. Not sure if you want to to jump in on this.

This is Ed Arango, assistant public works director.

As John mentioned, Ed Arango, I'm assistant works director. I've been hearing the conversation. I understand the inputs. So there's some amount of certainty that we do need. As kinda mentioned, as we develop these packages, put them up a bid, We get certainty when the contractors bids on our project, and we hold them accountable. So that gives us the we are what we are proposing is what we're gonna pay for in for the life of the

project construction project.

So if it takes them two years to build it, they will honor that price that they give us. I'm also weighing in this, complexity of of, the planting effort. We will be closely coordinating with security service staff regarding this the urban forestry biodiversity risk forestry plan. That will be approved. It's gonna be close coordination with staff.

You know, very clear direction on what we're going to have to help us with this planting. That would really guide us as we're developing as again, this next year, is this planned about? It's this you're hearing about package one, just demo, package two. That's the big project of the main build. That's where we're gonna get the true get the large effort.

So this time next year, we're hoping to get approval of those plans with council to put that one out to bid. Before that, there's a there's a there's a runway to get there. We need to get our plans approved, ready for approval. So that way, once we get counsel authorization, we can put it up. Again, we're gonna be coordinating over this next year with staff to help us develop that plan.

And I hear this sort of ground cover, you know, mid plain, high canopy, very clear. I think we can get there for meeting post unit staff, community services staff that has been integrated into this, biodiversity and urban forest plan, coordinating with you and the community. So we're hearing that loud and clear. I think my my takeaway is that it's you further reinforcing the importance, which we'll do.

Thank you. Thanks. I'll go back to Commissioner Bryant. Do you wanna take a shot at some kind of a motion or something like that?

No. Not yet. I mean, I'd like The first phase, which is a straight tree and presumably the trees that are closest to the building. The building is graced at the front by four, I guess, of the royal prince Oaks.

The,

the valley oaks, the appearance of rich and the list, greatly appreciate, are actually on the whole going to be quite hidden from public view.

It's true

that we, the PRC, should not be choosing plant species. I mean, we we have staff to do that for us. On the other hand, as we were walking, you know, through the process of the biodiversity blend, we were talking about a paradigm change, changing the way we we look at plants changing the way we look at nature in the city, at the at the environments, at the natural environments in which we live. And we are working on that, but we are still teaching. We haven't reached that yet.

This has worked for many years. So what what we it's not we we we didn't choose this design, but what the community is getting is a redwood grove gone, a big building on the streets, and four others, which are they don't look like oaks. They're hybrid oaks. They possibly will will cross, you know, cross pollinate with our oaks and and and bring up some new hybrids, which we don't want. This really goes against what we have worked on for years in the biodiversity plan.

So even if we just talk about the first packet, those four oaks are, it's a strong word, but because it's like saying to the community, yes, we did the biodiversity plan, but these cute little oaks. They're exotic. They're lovely. It's not what you meant, but they they I cannot support this.

Would you wanna swap out those for for right now? I mean, we could do it on the fly. I mean, I don't know what the other alternatives.

They we need we need to communicate to the residents that we mean what we say. Mhmm. And not just, yes, we have a lovely plan, which I bet we will submit to any kind of of conventions and get lots of awards for because it's a lovely plan. But in actual life, this is Yes. If we found native trees there and because these are supposed to be

little

oaks, little tree, columnar tree, shouldn't be difficult at all. And it faces West north no. It faces south. It shouldn't be that difficult to find for a tree that can actually talk to the community about this is this is what you said. This is the plan we built based on that. We actually met. And this is this $200,000,000 building, and we're looking at all the details among the biodiversity.

So

that is one concern for me. I think that what what you what you were reading about what ERC is supposed to doing. I read it before the May when I before the March 13, was it? '17? Yeah. And it seemed to me that the the species was part of the appropriate litigation. Okay. Not a lawyer. Me, it seemed that the PRC had always done. I will not be comfortable just saying, yes.

Fine. I trust staff to figure out figure this out. Like, I should stop talking. Figure this out and and trust that this will happen without being part of the public. And I would want to add that to an emotion that we may. Otherwise, I don't know. You know, I better take something from my throat.

If I may have ask a question, Patricia Nirbhaya. Is it those four specific trees, or is it that type of tree on the whole property? I'm a little unclear.

Well Okay.

That's because it's phase one. Right? The

the Exactly. Phase one. Right. Exactly.

But it's how it matters in creating emotion.

Right. But but but I'm just you know, could we do something in phase one where we say we wanna swap out those four and also say we want in prior to phase two or whatever the phase 2a is, we would like to see this again. I I I'm just throwing stuff out.

Yeah. Something in that direction.

So either a swap out or a review before that next phase. I think that language matters.

That language does matter because So Yeah. Yes. It matters both things. Yes.

So just to make sure I'm understanding, phase one, what I'm imagining based on what I heard was that if you were to draw a line, I don't know, three feet off the back of the train track side of the new public safety building, that that's probably everything toward Villa is phase one. Yes. It's kinda rough.

The first that will be built first.

Yeah. And so nothing in the back part of the site would have even been demolished?

No. Because they need to operate.

They need to move. Mhmm. Okay. So but there's a lot of tree removable for that first phase, and it looks like we're not even mitigating all those trees in the first phase.

Very true.

A lot of the trees are being the mitigation trees are happening in the second phase. I I I'm not sure what to think about that. And then I still can't completely tell. I thought I remembered something from March

that the

parking garage was still not a 100 per It It is now received the full

We're fully pumped.

Go ahead. Okay. Alright.

Because I given if you

draw that vertical line and I mean, there is almost nowhere to plant anything in phase one. There's basically not. And there's gonna have to be a ton of utility work in that area to support the new building. And, all we're really left with is some straight trees to be planted. Yeah.

I mean, it looks to me that in phase one, you're you're looking at four regal print books and then a bunch of sweet sweet bays.

Yeah. I mean

Yeah. The thing about that little thin space you know, so the street trees, that's pretty big tree. The the tree that is in between the street trees and the building has almost no space to grow. It has to be a small tree. And it's and it's going to be shaded. That's the South side. And, you know, the sun, when it hits a fairly big tree, is just gonna cast a shadow.

And then the other part that could be in phase one is the stuff on, Franklin in the corner there, and those are redbuds, which are native. So I presume those

are Okay.

Those are the native. Occidentalis is the native. Northern I mean, they're not legally native. Are.

There's negatives than anything else. Okay.

So I'm I'm trying to find a path forward. I'm gonna give Russell an opportunity to talk about kind of the location of some of those trees that we're referencing, the size of the actual planting area that we have. And and the question is, do you have re recommendations to provide a different species for those locations that meet the planting requirements that you're working with them.

So are we keeping this to kind of the phase one, or are

we keeping it to the project?

So, ultimately, again, it's not a good example. The photograph that we have up there or the drawing that we have up there in terms of what we're dealing with in terms of site constraints. Sandy kind of or commissioner, sorry, Sumner, ultimately kind of referenced that along the front of the building. But even along that backside, even in that parking lot, we are very, very restricted in terms of the space that we have available to plant trees. Again, trying to balance that development while keeping the other building going, there are just so many challenges here that even once we get the buildings laid out on the property or otherwise, we still have to provide sidewalks.

We still have to provide all of these other little amenities, benches, etcetera. They all take up space. And so it just yes. I'm sure if we sat down and we went through this 50 different times, we could probably come up with some other alternative species. It it just ultimately we're we're going to have some of the similar challenges, and we're still gonna have some that aren't happy with those species because of certain constraints or otherwise. And so this is a balancing act. Again, I'm open to consideration on some of these where we could perhaps identify some alternative species. I I just don't

know as though it's going to be enough that it's

going to satisfy everyone is where I'm coming from. That's going to be the challenge. And, also, in terms of the Catalina Irwin Act, absolutely agree with you in terms of some of the locations. But, again, that's one of those species that I just know historically when I've tried to find them or otherwise, they're very difficult to obtain. Doesn't mean we can't do a contract grow. Again, we can talk about some of those things as we move forward, but we're just trying to do the best that we can ultimately. And there are just so many site constraints in this situation. I don't know as though we can do much to add much more canopy. I don't know, you know, native wise. Yes. Absolutely. I think there are some other opportunities. I just don't know as though they're the best choice. You know, again, that's a personal preference. It's subjective, I'll say.

And so that's part of the challenge is that subjectivity of it all. I mean because I

think the part of the case that Russell was making is that, you know, were this a park development where we're dealing with a wide open, you know, green spaces, then we would have more opportunity for large canopies where we didn't need the turf area for for playing fields. We had we could reserve an area where we had a lot of mulch. You know? It's like this. We go to, you know, Heritage Park.

There's a nice lawn, but then there's very large swaths of mulch that, you know, that live under the yolk. And you you wouldn't want that in an area where you'd wanna have a a turf area for, say, canine training or an area for recreation. So this site, again, is is very constrained, planting a valley oak in a in some of these areas would be a disservice to that oak because it wouldn't be in its best environment to thrive.

It wouldn't reach its full

potential because of the constraints or it would be cut back or the roof turning and what have you. So that's part of why we've come up forward with this.

So, yes, it would be lovely to have the valrox, the rocalsalivolix. I I don't that's not what I personally am talking about. Okay. The the royal prince the the toyons are great. The the the red buds are are fine.

I think the up up in the in the corner, up the the up at the on the top corner, there's a lot of trials. Mhmm. That that's great. I'm I'm not thrilled about the about the the straight trees, but the royal oak is for me the I'm sorry. Is is a problem both because of well, mainly because it's a hybrid oak that doesn't belong here. We should not be flooding hybrid oaks until the fall.

And that

that is really basic. We should not be doing that. The the site is very constrained. Absolutely. I I I'm sure you none of you would have chosen to do this.

And it's it's uncounseled to have chosen this, to not have thought about the Redwood Grove, or maybe to we maybe should have all been there and said, why don't you think about the Redwood Grove? And then they might have thought about it. Because, you know, with with with all due respect, council has endless stuff to do. And if if people from the community and advocates don't come and point things out to them, they don't always see it on the on on the road. That's that's that's how busy they are.

So, Commissioner Frank, it sounds like the the biggest hurdle to get over is this Royal Prince

Yep.

Okay. For me. K. And Russell, I don't know if you're in a position now to provide an alternative that may get us over that that hurdle or not.

John, are you just talking about the first four in phase one, or

are talking about the whole the whole?

I'm looking at the whole

at this point. I would recommend we look at Yeah. Because we're designing this at the whole. Calling that you're built within a relatively short

period of

years, but yes. So

my short answer, Doug, would be no. I off the cuff, absolutely. I think Catalina is something that you could consider, but I would also wanna look at

some other. I just off

the top of my head, I don't wanna try

and be that committed to see.

Sorry if if I may interrupt. I really respect what you just said because you don't pull pull out of pull out of your hat. I mean, nobody would want to do that, especially as you are working on the platform that right now.

I

mean, that that's partial of the action of this that we are happy with the council, I'm sure, will will will support. So that that con

Commissioner Brayan, language that would satisfy your concerns over the royal prince and whether that is to direct staff to identify a native tree that fits in that a a what wording will get us over the finish line to to try to meet what it is that you're looking for?

So

with all due respect to to planning this as a, as a as a as a unit as whole, which which is seems the odd way to go. The four trees, the forms, the water liquids in front of the building are not critical to be the same as the other one. So just in terms of making phase one possible, finding a solution, which I don't think would be difficult to do, for for the trees that are public facing, that make an important statement to the community and in the on the building. Doesn't have to be a tree. It could be a big shrub, which, frankly, some people would say that that the are also shrubs.

Some people say that the the straight trees are are shrubs. So so that that that should not be a difficult choice so long as they they are part of the plan for it that we are moving forward with as natives in the biodiversity plan. And then I would like to see language that says that the rest of these hybrid oaks will will will will pass through another round of thinking because that's not gonna happen right now. That their planting is not happening right now. And, you know, those will be low water trees, but they won't call themselves Oaks and tell the community that maybe we don't we haven't actually heard what they're saying.

What do you need for us to pass a resolution? You need four or three? Three. Okay. Good. Okay. Can you said size, location, and number. Can my colleagues since I'm not Can my colleagues agree to the size, location, and number and add with continued consideration by the city arborist of the specific oak species.

Does that get you Or language that meets good roots. Yes. That's that's more along the lines

of Right.

Mean, that's that's what I think. It's just whether we do a phase one that says that calls out specifically for trees and then also says phase two needs wants to come back to it.

And it sounds like the if we can find language that gets us through the site, that would be very helpful.

Mhmm.

So I have a couple thoughts. The one of the challenges of this paradigm shift to what is expressed in our biodiversity and herb forestry plan is influencing the nursery industry to produce the kind of plants that meet our needs, and they aren't there right now. This is going to be a publicly bid project. The standards are different. It's not like walking down to your summer winds and buying a tree.

The nursery industry does not produce the kind of natives that we are looking for right now. They don't, and they haven't forever. I mean, they never have. And it's gonna take an entity like a city to start insisting that we they they do that. I I think there are issues where they aren't as profitable because they require slightly more specialized care.

Sometimes they require mic the appropriate mycorrhizal fungi to grow correctly. Anyway, it but that said, I do think we would be able to find four Catalina Ironwood, line of analysts between the in the state of California. I mean, I do actually think that, that being an example, That would meet our standard spec for a 24 inch

box. I

mean, they might even be some in the state of Oregon too where they grow a

lot of stuff.

A lot of our plant material that gets planted is coming from Oregon, at least in the in the Bay Area. Yeah. So I feel like I would like to see I I I would like to see I don't know if you wanna call it gesture to kinda commit to a different species for those four. They're going to have to be small because they're in the shade. We don't have to identify that tonight, but to commit to, you know, putting on our thinking cap and making a different choice.

Then the rest of it, I realized that the the urban forestry board and PRC don't really have a role. But it's a it would be a great chance for I don't know what you wanna call it. Community open house, something where the city is sort of taking this opportunity to bring to harmonize this plan for this wonderful facility with the the wonderful biodiversity plan, and we're all just gonna, you know, figure it out together kind of thing. Like, it's still for the public because that's I think what we're seeing is that there's a lot of members of the public who still have not just some commissioners, but members of the public who still have concerns that they wanna raise, and they kind of wanna be part of it. So I don't know.

Concocked whatever works for the CSD, but some kind of way to get that plan out in the a and not in not a critical path. Like, it's outside the critical path of this project. This project goes forward. But we're still going to share and think about together how to bring the two project, you know, the biodiversity into this first facility that's coming in. So it's not a hearing.

It's co creation. So, I personally would be ready to move forward if we could make a commitment about the the trees along Villa, and, I'm okay with the rest of the plan because I think it's gonna change over time because they've listened to us for now two hours at least. Talk about

So I I agree with everything you said.

No.

Cooperation, the working with the community, I feel that needs to be part of the motion. Okay. If that were part of the motion, I'm fine with that. Because that's really what I want. Okay. So those those portrays, yes. And they don't have to be ironless. They don't have to be Or none

of them big of it.

What was forestered. They need to be visibly visibly natured, visibly attractive, visibly something to decorate the building and to tell people, yes. We heard. We agree. We're doing it together. And then and then the process that we are embarked on on figuring out the. But that needs to be part of what we're asking for or what we're recommending to city council, and I could easily go. I can go with that.

So I guess I I I need to have a better picture of what you mean about working with the community. You know, is working with the community, Is it sufficient to have it come back through PRC one more time? I don't envision a stick the dots on it. I mean, I don't know if that's what you what you what you see for this, but I I just wanna be a little bit more clear on you know? Because the community was involved in the biodiversity plan. So I don't know if it maybe there's language about that it needs to adhere strictly to the biodiversity plan or

something like

What what I heard from staff when we when we, had a meeting Monday. Was was working on the tree list and working on the plant, with the PRC, with with local groups, with volunteer groups. That's what I mean by working with the community. I don't mean 400 people putting dots on on maps.

I'm

never too thrilled with that. But the the actual work that Russell was describing to me, that sounded right. And that's that's already in the process of planning, as I understood from you, in the process of implementing that.

It is on our radar screen for this fall winter. Yes.

That's it. That's what I want. I just wanted to be clear that this is the process we're going to be using. These these will be discussions that will happen. And then it will come back to the VRC. We're, like, saying Okay. Yay.

So So what is

the Let's let, Commissioner Blank, can you take a shot at at what you what you would like? And and if you if you want us to all to pause for and be quiet for a little bit.

Can I

just weigh in? Or

I'm just gonna weigh in with the comment on that. My the the axe I'm grinding has to do with the site planning process that needs, at least at the conceptual level, needs to hit council in a

different way than it has

to past. That's not what this resolution is gonna entail. I have a. My vote's probably gonna be. Right.

Otherwise, I would be perfectly comfortable with putting it under the purview of the city arborist. You know? So we we you approve the location number and size. And by the way, I don't think they all think box with that something. I would otherwise be comfortable with city arborist being that point of community cohesion and input by whatever means the city finds acceptable to look at those four trees and the oceans. So,

like I said, I think that's you're gonna go anywhere. But but but I appreciate no. I hear what you guys do. So I appreciate important that you still weigh in, and I know that you can see things from our perspective. So thank you. Thank you. No. That's good.

Well, so we know that city staff is planning an interdepartmental group to tackle this issue, and the city forester is gonna be a critical part of that. I'm sure there'll be people from public works, planning, and everything. The kind of problem we're faced with that hasn't really I don't know. It's either has barely kicked off or hasn't kicked off yet, and so it has not been able to influence this plan. And I'm you know, I wanna be sure that it gets to influence this plan.

That's kind of where I'm at. And and I also wanna make sure that there's few touch points with the public as a part of that because you almost could create an advisory committee Mhmm. That involved, you know, some of our partners, you know, canopies, the, you know, various groups that we've all heard mostly at the, March meeting, but, you know, folks submitted letters. You almost could do that, but, you know, I know that there's, you know, tons of stuff on on the plate. So

Let me

ask Commissioner Bride to take a shot

at at

No. No. I I want to respond to what Commissioner Summer said. My understanding from what Russell told me was the creation of such an advisory committee. A staff interdepartmental working group is not what I'm looking for.

Because we all know that staff is still building expertise in this. That's why we had consultants. That's why so staff isn't quite there yet, but there are people in the community that are there yet and that are there already that have professional expertise in this and that have and an advisory group such as is being set up, as I understood what Russell said, is what I was looking for. And the work of such a group to work on the plant pellets, give it a year. It should be enough, and it's it's scheduled to start.

If that groups looks at You know, they don't for that's appropriate for the city that that that conform to the biodiversity plan and to the to the goals that that biodiversity plan, has has specified. They should do that work of preparing the palettes, and out of those palettes, the trees should be chosen. And if they're not all native, they're not all native. Not not all of the street trees are native. But maybe at least some of them are ponderance is what we wanted to be native.

And when that group is done, it'll come back to the, and then the recommendation can be made to counsel. So so two things that should be part of the motion. One of them is to move forward with staff's recommendation, exchange support

Here we go.

Regal regal Prince Oaks in the front of the building with appropriate native trees and use the plant plants recommended by the advisory board that staff is going to put together, if that's the correct wording for it, to choose. To replace the the preponderance of the nonnative trees in the for for for the planting for the mitigation planting of the safety building site.

If I may.

Sorry. Hang on just a second. I just wanna make sure we capture this. So in that little gap there, there was a in the gap between alternatives and two, it was the notion of of working with the

Working group? No. No. On. There's there's a exchange. Oh. In on on on on Franklin.

Villa is the frontage.

Villa. I'm sorry?

Villa is the frontage?

Villa. Yes. Of course.

Which

with appropriate native trees. Locally nate well, native trees. Okay. And then, chama or no. Then then in your so after arborist, full stop. And the second part of it is

These four.

Is this where you wanna mention the working group advisory body? Yes. That has community members, not just staff members. Yes.

And that that result will filter in and have the PRC reviewing it. Okay.

Yeah. There's no way. Yes. That's been thinking so far.

I I think we're and

So maybe if you

just Commissioner Bryant.

Yes.

I'm sorry. And the creation of a committee, creation of some alternative plant palettes and the timing of this project, I don't know how those are going to coincide right now, and that's where I'm having a hard time.

Okay. That's So question.

What if and please tell me what if we looked at the site, we worked with Canopy We

can

name another group. And, in concert with Public Works, the city arborist that and within the within the context of the biodiversity and urban forest plan that we'll be able to make a recommendation for those trees. And I'm saying that I I I like where you're going. It's the timing for me is the issue right now, and I think we'll be in a place to do that in the future. We are in this crossroads of a site plan that's already been developed.

Yep.

We're trying to fit information a plan that we've been developing, but hasn't we haven't done a lot of work on it yet.

It's not adopted.

It's not adopted. But that and but the spirit is there. Right? It is. I get it. And so I'm trying to figure out if it's a matter of working with others to come up with a plant palate that is specific to this site before we get to the larger palates, that's fine. But I'm I'm I'm having a hard time trying to work within the confines of this larger group that we're gonna be working with and the timing thereof. So I'm trying to find a win win, but I'm I'm I'm I can't support looking at that as the solution.

Or if you think that's not realistic

It is not. Fine.

Okay.

Thank you for saying that. Well, the one question about the vote. It's almost like doubling the word about the implied ballot for that specific site.

But we have the major we have the street treaties. I think it's a matter of just coming up with better alternatives than than some that we have right now.

Canopy are not experts on the. But we do have the North Bay Shore fan blood. And North Bay Shore is not that far away from Bill Street. We we have a basic. We have a plant.

So if if you wanted to work with the no facial cleansing canopy and bring it back to the.

So I I I need to understand whether there's the rest of your members feel that need to come back.

Okay.

Hi, Rose.

Some of my question was just answered. My question was going to be given the working group or whatever. It's when you called. It won't even start until the earliest of fall. It just felt like the timing would line up. So you confirmed my suspicion about that? I think I just lost a train of thought on my second part of the question about timing.

Yeah. Come back to

me. I I feel what I'm comfortable with the general phrasing of putting this on a city arborist

and not over specifying complex processes. So would you would you take that first sentence and then just add a second sentence that, city arborist will reevaluate or whatever the right word is the remaining part of the plant pallet and have it come back

to the PRC.

I'm sorry. My question was the feasibility of it coming back to PRC because this is go this needs to go to council ASAP.

No. I'm talking here from I get

The whole plant pallet working group.

Oh, as a separate project.

I don't know.

I mean,

that was

part of

Not really.

Whether or whether you need to be done tonight, and we never see this again. I mean, that's what the question is.

Many people ask me. Because there's this, and then there's a separate plant pallet for the city.

Oh, that's a separate I'm not

even talking about that.

That's a different

So if it if this came back with a different plant pallet to the DRC, is that even feasible?

Plant, you mean tree palate?

Tree palate.

Central A year

from now after stage one.

Right.

So next and I'll defer to I'll I'll I'll let Ed speak to that. I I can just share the timing as I've shared before. Package one is site prep, removal of trees along villa and building pad prep. No trees are in that package. Package two is going to counsel for consideration of approval in the spring of twenty twenty seven for bidding out the main building and the frontage and and and actually the rest of the site development. So that's package two, and I'll let Ed speak to his preference about how to

Thank you. So I'm just gonna speak about just timing and, you know, feasibility. It I'm gonna bring you into a little bit of our world on developing plans. So it's very much an iterative process. We go through sort of stages of plans. We get to, like, a 50% stage, 75% stage, and then a 100% stage, and we're developing the plans as we get there. By the time spring hits of 2027, you're hearing this, we're gonna go to council for approval of the main building, the site. The plans are complete. They're fully complete, which allows us to bid out the project for a contractor. So we need the runway in front of that to prepare the details.

So we're preparing the details this whole time. So over the next realistically, over the next May, essentially, by about February, March, we're pretty much done. This is the only time frame that we have to do it because we're we're wrapping everything up at the end, and then we're going to council. So just to give you a timing of framing, it's it isn't that next year we'll be in front of council, and then there's gonna be an opportunity just to just to

Yeah. To sign in a new

a whole new set of plans. You know, irrigation may change other specificities. So it really complicates our efforts. And so and, you know, speaking to, John's comment about the feasibility, the timing just it doesn't work. But I again, I'm we're we're absolutely hearing what you're saying. We're working closely with staff and how we can incorporate kind of the best planting plan palette for the site that is in concert with what we've

been hearing.

That was right. So thank you.

Thank you.

So I was

Go ahead.

Going to say, you gave me the metaphor. The horse is out of the barn, you guys. We this doesn't get to be perfectly harmonized with the biodiversity and urban forest land. It's too late. And I think the progress that we made is fabulous, and there'll still be the actual full planting plan that will get done.

I don't see any reason to come back to the Parks and Rec Commission, the urban forestry board. There's nothing in the city's ordinances that requires it. We are we're talking about species, and that's not even in there. So what I guess what I was trying to come up with was something that would sort of satisfy the this this intense public interest in the subject without throwing a big old monkey wrench into this process that's well on the way and has, already spent a lot of the city's money to get there. So, yeah, the this isn't an ideal process, and, I'm I'm very disappointed about that.

But there's also no format for it except the city council and the input of citizens as commissioner Brian raised. There's no other entity that can make those decisions. So So

what are you proposing?

I'm proposing that we Allison, can

you please put that back in?

We make changes that are are kind of simple, this the the four trees along Villa, and we trust the city's arborist to hear hear what we said, which I I do pass the city's arborist.

Or can we put in a second sentence that we would have a preference to, on the on the other

legal oaks?

Well, my to my mind, I I my thinking is that I would like to see some of them change to a native species, but I there is a place for that tree on this site plan.

It's a hybrid oak. It could But that doesn't make it an inappropriate plant to plant in a difficult situation. It it could cross pollinate with our native oaks. It is truly a risk that is not worth taking.

I I disagree about that, Renee. And we aren't experts, so I think we should leave it to technical people with technical expertise to make the decision. So I wouldn't support a motion that that micromanaged that to that level.

I would change exchange for to exchange several species with appropriate native trees to be determined by the CVRs.

And others if possible.

Well well, that's just several. I think

the four I think the floor prints out. So Well, I don't know. I think I'm too specific on those. Those are those are coming up. Well, maybe they're not.

It's the first phase. They're gonna be really prominent.

Are part of the showcasing. Back to my language about just where they are

Right.