City Council - Special Meeting

Mic check, mic check. Okay, everybody. Hello. We're going to wait until the train goes by before we get started. Everyday, I don't think I've ever had a meeting here where the train didn't go by. Okay, it is not a town hall meeting in Mount Shasta until the train goes by. Welcome everybody. Thank you for coming to the City of Mount Shasta's Town Hall meeting number two for the landing. I'm Kim Fowler. I am the planning director tonight. There are other folks in the room here that I'll introduce you real quick. In the back, we have our developers, John and Brian Power, if you want to stand up and wave for a second. They're the master developers behind the landing. And then to my left, your right, we have Linda and Jonathan. These folks are your dreamers and designers. They're the ones that are gonna get us through the conceptual master plan process. Behind me, we have city staff, chief. Chief is here in the room. Our mayor is also here tonight, Casey. Our deputy city clerk is here tonight, Rachel. A little bit of housekeeping. If it's your first time in the building, the restrooms are in the back. We have snacks and water also in the back if you'd like to have some water. Oh, Facebook. Yes. So tonight's meeting is being televised through our audiovisual crew. This meeting is being recorded live and it's being live streamed and we'll also have a YouTube video playback. for those who want to watch it back later. So just a disclosure that this meeting is being publicized tonight, and you may or may not end up on camera. So just wave and say hi. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Linda and Jonathan, and we'll get the party started. Thank you for being here.

Hello, good evening and it's good to be back and it's always a pleasure being here. We're going to introduce the project and let's look at a timeline for a moment. So this is where we are in the project. I'd say we're about 40% through the work right now, so a little early. This is our second workshop of three total with some hearings at the end and we're hoping to finish this by the end of the year. Right now we are coming with some planned drawings that are very basic. and this is following some economic research, and that's really what's important in the crux of this meeting. We have some data about the economic potential of the site, and we're taking a first look at the layout. The next workshop would probably be late October or November, and that's when we would come with a more finalized plan, but still up for comment. So this is a moment of white-hot creativity. Everything's on the table, and everything is in flux, so nothing is settled right now. My name is Jonathan Linkus. I am an urban planner with GHD. We're a planning and engineering firm up and down the West Coast, and it's a national and international company as well. And I'm joined by Linda Congleton. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Yes, I'm Linda Congleton. I'm the one who's responsible for the economics, the financial feasibility. It was our goal to come up with uses that are meaningful to the community but also are feasible and also likely to produce some very positive results for your city in terms of tourism, but also we were very cognizant about the affordable housing needs of the community as well. So we are the ones looking at the demographics, at the trends, what is best for the site to create a really distinguished mix of uses for your community to set you apart and really create an Instagrammable kind of new use for your community that you could be proud of.

I'm really proud to work with Linda because she has so many years of experience working for retail, private developers, as well as cities. And I'll also add that she interviews a lot of local entrepreneurs. So there's an on-the-ground touch to her research that I love bringing to these master plans. Todd Tregenza has been at these meetings before. He was at the first one. Not here today, but he helps us with our transportation planning related to the project. So why are we here today? Our goal number one is present Linda's economic research to build a realistic and economically feasible long-term vision. Goal number two, present a land use plan, an initial layout. It's a bubble diagram at this point. We haven't settled anything, but we want your approval, your review, your sense of what's coming on the horizon. We also want to adjust our expectations. What do you want? Check in on your priorities. Hear from you. Is there anything you like or dislike in the plan you're starting to see on the paper? Let us know. This is the site area to review. Right now, north is oriented to the left on this page. So the five freeway is at the south, excuse me, the bottom right corner. And a feature you'll notice is there's an east side and a west side on either side of Mount Shasta Boulevard. And we also have three areas on that western side that were part of the Superfund cleanup, the toxic cleanup. And those are continuing as a restricted area that we can't put a habitable use on like hotel, housing, hospital as well. So there's a document that the developers have signed that makes that a covenant, a land use covenant. A lot of planning has been done to date pertaining to this site going back 10 to 15 years. So there is a development plan that has some broad strokes Land use planning about interest in commercial It was there was a broad high-level market assessment, but again, this is done at least 15 Excuse me 10 years ago The first plan 1999 that market study was before the recession so you're talking about a very different era the landing Area-wide plan was done in 2015 prior to the cleanup so we did not know what uses we could and could not have and This is pre-COVID, and it did not come with an updated market study. Nonetheless, it did provide some visualization about what could be on the site. This is a very commercial office, employer-oriented plan that featured some indoor and outdoor performance space. Again, none of these were tied to a very specific economic picture, but were based on high-level goals about employment. As you can see, the site is very low density in some areas and very sort of Irvine, Southern California rooftop industrial, I would say, on the other end. And there's some proximity to freeway that might have been appropriate for an industrial rooftop. But I think we want to question all of that from an economic standpoint and also a needs assessment. And what we've heard is that housing is a priori right now. Everyone in the nation is talking about housing affordability and really the market forecast also has to be based on who's living here now and who's coming here now. And there are a number of folks that you can refer to, Linda, but we also are doing some of the first community workshops in the planning of this site. The prior plan did not have a workshop process. So we want to include your citizen's voice. And overall, I think there's a cohesiveness to the master plan, a sense of it being its own village and connected to downtown that we also want to be sensitive to. So this is a slide that we had at our first workshop, but it's fundamental to show at every one of these, which is our priorities. We want to support the existing economic life of the city. We want this site to be mixed use and to generate jobs. Again, affordable housing is ever present in the planning we do for this site. We want to have opportunities for small businesses to live on the site and to grow. It has to be regionally appropriate in terms of form, style, and density. We can't build too tall, but we also can't forego economic opportunity that is relevant to this community. So it has to be economically resilient, and we have to have a sense of environmental consciousness. Is it a walkable site? Does it have room to detain its own stormwater. This project will not include data centers, large scale, heavy industrial. It won't be a single user or single employer, which is its history as a mill site. It will not be in direct competition with downtown. The differentiation of any retail or hotel has to be about what is unique to this site. No major light or sound impact that's spreading out from the site and impacting our neighbors. And no major utilities, sorting. These are sort of the no-goes in terms of land use that we want to be thoughtful of when we do a master plan like this. And so looking at some of the site challenges, let's just go through a high-level summary of them. This isn't very scientific, but it's a good laundry list of factors we're looking at as planners. One of them, again, is the restricted use areas. And they're numbered and they have a defined boundary. Generally, there's one at the north end that's large and two that are a little smaller halfway down the site. And these are areas where the topsoil has been cleared off and has been disposed of properly. But there is a low level risk that means we can build on the site, but we can't put housing on it. We can't put a hotel on it. There are other things we can do on the surface of it, parks. commercial uses, those are acceptable. But we have a little bit of a limitation there. Another site development challenge, and this affects how we phase and what we think about in terms of near-term opportunity, is a limit on how much sewer service the site has right now. And upgrading that to serve all future uses up front is very expensive. So we need to stage it in a way. So right now at Church Street, there is a sixth inch diameter sewer line that could potentially serve uses about halfway down the site. And so we have to suit the first phase uses to fit within the capacity of that utility line. Another site challenge is just the noise from the freeway. When you're standing on the site, you can hear the freeway, you can hear the railroad. It adds 15 to 20 decibels according to an app I used. So it's there and we have to think about who might be outdoors or who might not be behind a double pane window like this to be impacted by that. There are some flat areas of the site that are most developable in the near term, and those are important for us to think about in planning, as is site topography. Some of these large rectangles I've drawn indicate some of the areas of the site that are a little steeper. And so it might take longer to develop the economic head of steam, so to speak, to grade those sites for future use. And some of them might be so steep they might have to just be open space for a long time. Those long, thin bars represent areas where The edge of the site has such a drop down to the developable land that you actually have a divide, a scarp, and you're looking down 15 feet into the site. So those are not frontages where you would put a shop front. Site access. There are a few opportunities with dirt curb cuts right now. Those may be natural future intersections to access the site. And there are some other areas on the north where the site touches the grade of the road, and there is a natural place get onto the site from there in the future. But those are considerations when we talk about where we place future roads. Visibility from the freeway, what we want seen from the freeway probably belongs down where that visibility is coming right off the K rail. And then visibility to Mount Shasta is something that it just affects us when we stand out there It's a panoramic view from the middle of the site at the south, and then at the north through the aspen trees and the grove up at the mill pond, you can see Mount Shasta again framed. So those are opportunities we want to think about as we do an initial site layout. So what's the big idea? We have to have a holistic thought about how we're responding to context in the city that we have. And just really cartoon level, really basic, We have downtown Mount Shasta and we have the five freeway. And our site is the sort of junction or the gap between them. And what we want to do is put uses that might draw tourists that are one to two stories near downtown so that those visitors to the site are coming into downtown and bringing their wallets, bringing their business. They have a relationship to the existing city. Development that is potentially a little denser, up to two and three stories, We probably want that near the freeway so it's not impacting our single story neighbors, the homes that are across the street, and isn't an abrupt change from the existing character of downtown. Those things can be near the freeway. And so when we think about this in plan, we think about a spot in the middle of the site that is appropriate for visitors, that brings them closer to downtown. supporting those existing businesses, but may have a relationship to a new development village or center at the southern end near the freeway. And so we think of this as a kind of little dog bone strategy for site layout. Within the site itself, you've seen this diagram on the right. And on the left, what we're really thinking about is sort of two big areas, an area for visitors and an area for people to live on the site or come to the site who might be locals. And each of them should probably have a small open space that improves the quality of life on them. And the one at the north would naturally be in that land use restricted area where we're already limited on development and there's a water catchment in the middle of it. That's a natural area for a municipal park. And so we like to think of that as really belonging to the city as much as the site. Further south, there's a small open space we're suggesting might be related to future housing or retail. People who live on the site or are staying on the site could potentially benefit from that small open space. And I think what captivates me is that each of them has an opportunity for a view of Mount Shasta. When you're standing in the middle of the site in that purple area, the view is uninterrupted and you can even see the cinder cone to the west, northwest. So there's framed views, I think, are kind of postcard moments that we really want to capture in our urban design. So let's start to build up the site plan that you're seeing on that poster behind you. And what's some of the rationale behind where we place, why we place what we do where? So I mentioned the land use restricted areas, and those are natural places to create open space reserves, parks, areas where you can capture stormwater that runs off of a more developed site. So there's also this notion of a landscape buffer along the railroad tracks because that area has some of the rail noise and the most difficult terrain at the edge of the site. I just mentioned open space and parks in the land use restricted areas and those also happen to be areas with some of the more difficult topography. Those are the areas that are most expensive to provide grading for development. We also are thinking about a long-held idea for a civic facility, like a community center, gathering space, a secondary meeting hall for the city in that northern blue lozenge connected to a potential municipal park. And at the southern end, we're talking about the potential to locate a new police headquarters or fire facility. And some examples we've seen in other rural communities are you do them together. It's most efficient, and you can support that with grants that support public safety. And something like that, you want to have good freeway access and good road access, good frontage, and especially on land that's a little less optimal for housing, such as that strip on the bottom right where there's a good slope to the site, but it still has that Mount Shasta Boulevard access. So I mentioned a kind of visitor-related use. And Linda, please chime in at this point.

OK. I want to explain a little bit about the process. So we work as a team. We come up with the products that have the highest potential for feasibility in your community. And then we go to Jonathan, and we do an all afternoon brainstorming session. He presents to me many of the physical constraints, and we start to lay out where the optimal places are for locating these. We start with the uses, the products, and we have a two-pronged approach here. One is we're looking at uses that can generate TOT dollars, generate revenue for the city, and we're also looking at uses for the community. In particular, we were informed by the last town hall, and we frankly agree with you quite strongly, that there is a need to look at ownership and renter housing, as well as some other kinds of amenities that can serve as maybe short-term. We have even a little hostel kind of idea for PCT travelers and hikers. So those kinds of units, we look at how many can be sold per year, what kind of phasing, what is reasonable, and we come up with those products, the kinds of density. We meet with Jonathan for a very long session. We do a little tugging back and forth of where they should best be located, and this is the result of that plan.

So the first, and all of these users were mentioned at the first meeting. We've revised that list for the end of this presentation, but I wanted to go through some of the logic about why they might be where on the site. So the first of which is a motor coach park. This is an upscale version of an RV park. It's a little more amenitized, it's more manicured, it's more controlled, probably a little higher price point. And the motor coach park is probably the earliest opportunity because it requires the lowest per square meter investment in your site and it also has the lowest impact on your sewer. This is how we could begin the economic life of the site and also to begin capturing tax dollars that can feed the city from it. So it's a near-term opportunity. Again, I mentioned that it has a low impact on the sewer connection. It could benefit from being on a flat graded site in the middle and it doesn't require frontage on Mount Shasta Boulevard. It's something that actually wants to be behind that scarp, that rift in the site for that enclave sense. In addition, we have thought about what we've called mountain modern cabins. And this is similar to something we mentioned at the first meeting, a kind of trendy, upscale, but unassuming type of cabin campus that is also a near-term opportunity. There's demand for this right now that's unmet in the market. And it should be closer to the downtown connection at the north end of the site, Because if those cabins don't have kitchens, those people are going to be wanting to spend their money up in downtown, supporting the business, another kind of visitor. It doesn't need frontage on the road. It wants to have its own park-like setting. And again, this is a lower sewer impact. So this is something we can do in the next probably five years. And with that, you would need a lodge or event space because someone might bring their wedding there or their conference. And again, having that near downtown, downtown businesses, restaurants can cater to that in their event space. That's a use you can put on that land use restricted zone in the red circle at the top. So there's a way we can sort of borrow a bit of that landscape to fit that use in the northern half of the landing. And again, we want it that close to downtown. There's also some talk about using the other land use restricted area for a very small putting course. This is a kind of dressier version of of mini-golf that's, I think, appropriate for visitors that are coming to the area. And I think it looks good too. So the next chapter of this site development idea is responding to the housing need. And we've brought in two housing types that we think are appropriate for the area. And Linda, please chime in if you wish.

We heard the community needs that were discussed in this community. And I have to say, I was very I had a very positive reaction to this because I think there really is a need, particularly in Mount Shasta, that is the priciest community in this whole region in terms of housing. You really do lack ownership housing and any new rentals that are completely modern, new, inside. And there was an express need for what I call tiny or cottage homes. In other words, small detached homes that can be purchased for ownership purposes. They could be either for starter homes for young people, or they could be for what I call move-down buyers. And same with the renters, the renter units, they could be, again, two separate kinds of markets, again, for young people in workforce and service workforce housing, as well as what we call lock and leave occupants. We've seen this in market after market, where you have a move down buyer, they really don't want the ownership responsibilities anymore. They want a very attractive rental place in a great location, but they want to be able to lock and leave it, go visit their grandchildren, go visit their friends, go travel the world, but just be able to leave it and leave it knowing that there's security there. So both products we have looked at quite seriously, and we think that we have provided some product types that could be very appealing in a low-density appeal. We don't think it's appropriate, for example, to look at products that would be grabbed out of, you know, a big urban area. We want real estate that really fits into your rural atmosphere.

Yeah, that's a very important point. The cottage homes also are the classic starter home idea that's come. It's topical right now as the alternative to buying a condo in a stacked flat. We've located it here because that's another one of those flat development sites. And it's probably a midterm opportunity because you're going to probably require a sewer upgrade and extension along Mount Shasta Boulevard to support that kind of sewer load with a denser population. Every home is going to have 2.5 people typically. So we want that to be separate from the visitor uses. It can be near it, but you're not really putting them next to each other. Again, that flat developable site reduces the cost of housing, which is important. And we're dedicating a small amount of space to that right now, rather than filling the belly of the site with housing, because it's what Linda has called a pioneering product. It's something that is new on the market. It is a manufactured house where, you can explain it, they buy the property.

Well, to explain it in simple terms, to bring the cost down as much as possible, we're looking at very, very high quality what we call prefab houses, that can be brought onto the site inexpensively, bring down the price below what you're seeing in the market today, but you're essentially buying them as any, and by the way, just to give you kind of a broad range, they could be anywhere from 650 really, really tiny homes up to 1,000 square feet, and you buy the unit and you say to yourself, okay, there's so many lots here. Maybe there's six lots that I'm buying that I can look at right now. You buy it and then you sell through one phase and then you go on to the next. But all of the square footages would be kept at a smaller level to keep the cost down.

And these are larger than a trailer home. This is a different type. It's constructed differently. It's brought to the site differently. you might say it's one step above a trailer park.

And we have some very aesthetic examples to show you. This is not an RV park or mobile home product.

It wants to have right-of-way access on a public street or collector, so we introduce a road to the southern portion of the site to provide that access. And this is also part of our transition. Remember that initial diagram I showed with that sweep to more density for a cluster development at the south? We're transitioning now back from cabins and RVs to a little higher density at the southern end. The second housing type we're introducing as a part of this micro village is row rentals. And this is, again, this is a midterm opportunity. It wants those flat development sites. We're giving this a larger dedication of space, as you can see on the map. because it's a more tested product. There are more examples of it being built as a... The tiny homes, for example, there are complexes of them put forth by developers for purchase, but those examples are limited. Those products are also going to resorts that use them as cabins or ADUs in the backyards of larger estates. So it's a new product. A row home, we've seen those. Townhomes are two-story versions of that. Those are a little more urban versions. What we're talking about is a very low density, single story version of that.

And there is a reason for looking at single level, single story rentals. Again, in that bifurcation of the markets, we're looking at younger people, workforce people, as well as your median age in this community is 51. You want to provide for housing. that will be suitable for seniors. Most older people do not want to be walking up and down stairs. It's a safety issue. And also, if you look at the products we provide examples, it provides an aesthetic that is much more suitable for a rural community. Instead of having this two, three, five level kind of apartment project, which isn't really appropriate for a rural community, you've got a much lower density project. The other reason for doing what we're calling row rentals, it is much easier to phase these projects as a developer. Let's say you test out the product with, let's say, 12 units, and then you add another 12. You can phase it far more easily. When you have a community that is not hundreds of thousands of people, it is much more sensitive in terms of demand than it is if you're building in a big, huge urban area. So this allows the product to be tested, refined as the developer progresses on the project.

And capping off the southern end of the site, we're talking about really completing the image of a mixed-use village, that micro village of housing, that 60 to 80 housing units at the southern end is connected to an opportunity for a little bit more retail in the future. And this one is what we're calling a retail incubator. And Linda, you had this idea about an incubator.

And the reason we call it retail slash incubator, because we see it as a mix of traditional retail. Think restaurant, cafes, quick foods, things that, and by the way, this is all walkable from the micro village where people will live. Think of food uses, great food uses, but also services. But what we'd also like to be able to do is provide space for what we call entrepreneurial incubator space. There was the idea of a ghost kitchen, there was an idea of craftsmen that are in the area, perhaps artists who could display their space. So we have also incorporated square footage for these really creative entrepreneurs to be mixed into this retail corridor. We see this as not only a dynamic area for entrepreneurs in this area to have their own business, but also something that can tap into both, from a customer standpoint, locals as well as visitors that come to this area.

This phase is a long-term opportunity. It requires a sewer upgrade to handle, again, the sewer load, sanitary flow load of housing, especially the apartment product. The retail has to be long-term as well because its viability depends on an increase of population that's on the site and a concomitant growth naturally in the rest of the city. because we do not want this to compete with downtown. So this is something that is 10 years out to 15 years out. And it's at the southern end because it has visibility and access from the five freeway. So it may be able to serve or actually bring in more people from the freeway than would normally stop in downtown. These are people blowing by and they're not thinking about Mount Shasta. They could turn off and hit this quickly. It's tolerant of freeway noise. These are commercial uses. And it can have shared parking with other things, such as another potential long-term hotel.

And let me mention, there's another reason for doing it far out in the phase. Number one, you don't want to compete with downtown. But number two, we have a rule in retail. It's called this. Retail follows residential. Retail follows residential. You really want your village, your housing village, to be up and going and occupied and where people can actually walk over there and take advantage of this retail. Retailers want to see those rooftops, so it makes a lot more sense to have the retail and the incubator space come at the tail end of the project.

So the last use that we want to introduce to this land use scheme is a limited service hotel. Again, a long term picture that would be supplemental and different from anything that we're seeing in the community today and within our site plan. It's long term. It would benefit from visibility to the freeway. It would not be competitive with downtown at the southern end due to its distance from downtown. And this is a very different type. So this is probably a national chain. that's providing limited service. It may have a connected conference space within it. And it forms synergy with the retail. People visiting and staying in a three-story chain hotel are going to come downstairs, dine in downtown or next to the site. And this would probably be surrounding a little common or open space. We have example images I'm excited about. It's tolerant of freeway noise. These are things with double pane, triple pane windows. And this would represent the greatest density on the site. And you want that in traffic load. You would want that at the southern end, nearest the freeway, away from its impact on neighbors and the high quality life that we see and experience in downtown. Just going through some of the open spaces that emanate from this layout, there's this, again, this idea of a mill pond municipal park in that land use restricted area. that has a natural sump or pond right now, and with some manicured, some development, that could become a beautiful city park with water reflecting a view of Mount Shasta. I stood at the back of it, and it's a postcard moment, I think, in the making. There are two trails recommended or suggested in this plan. One is a paved community path through that landscape buffer. This is an idea that actually precedes our planning work, and we think it's a great one. It could allow a second way to get up into downtown access for community members that want to come down and visit the retail with some pedestrian lighting. It can be safe and really a special Shasta benefit to a site and a connection to the existing pioneer trail. There would be a public street at the southern end, what I call the belly of the site. And we also think a mixed use or a pedestrian promenade that sort of connects the housing to any future retail or the hotel would enhance the livability, walkability, and quality of life for those who choose to live on the site. And that would interconnect some small pocket parks. These are 800 square feet to 2,000 square feet of grass or a playground for residents that live there. And of course, they would be publicly accessible. And any kind of common space used by the retail would be publicly accessible but privately controlled. So it's actually very family friendly. It's safe. It's off street. You can let your kids run around in it. And it's really a part of the urban life of the site. And of course, we want to think about areas where we would capture storm water, hold it, allow it to be filtered through best management practices, as we say, which use natural wetland-like plantings to sort of clean the water, and this site is therefore more resilient. This is a pretty detailed slide, and I just want to reiterate that this is going to be published online. And this slide captures some of the quantities we get as a measure of the capacity of the site if we try to get all these uses on there. And so as we say in planning, this is a capacity study. But these numbers also reflect the economic potential of the site in your forecast. Linda, do you have any thoughts on this one?

Well, the other thing that we have incorporated into this plan are alternatives as well. Let's say one housing product doesn't work as well. Let's just make an example. Let's say we programmed initially to many cottage homes. Well, okay, some of that land can be switched over to apartments. So you have some flexibility in the plan to meet the community's needs, as let's say you're into 10 or 15 years of the plan. Needs change within a community. So part of this incorporates that flexibility. Also, we've incorporated expansion areas. We think, for example, on the rentals, that there might be an ability to expand right adjacent to that and add more rentals. Or if you go over in the east side, there's an expansion area there. for additional rentals. So we've incorporated that as part of the plan to be flexible as you go forward in the future. Because as I say, what is immediately useful and looks like a great use today, you don't know in 15 years how things may change. And we want to make sure that flexibility is built in.

And I'll just add that The plan you see now is the level of detail we're at. This is supported by tens of pages of research from your economic perspective that's backing this up. So this is the moment when your input can really influence the plan. That's why we've come to you today. And our next step is to provide granularity and really do a scale drawing of what those footprints and streets would look like. The last section of this presentation is example images of those types and we brought some of those to our last, or excuse me, our first workshop, our last time in town. And they are development types that are also about character and density as much as what their economic use is. So your opinion on those types and how they look and feel is as important as whether we think they'll sell. And that's important. You've seen this list before, but we've updated it and refined it. The first one is a retail opportunity. It's low density. It's pedestrian oriented. This is very small scale stuff. This is not a lifestyle center. This is not an outlet development. This is nothing large that is in our minds from the last 30 years. This is a newer product in the last 10 years. I like to call it a retail village. They usually are wrapped around a kind of green common space like this one. And small performances with a jazz combo or a musician from the area. A lot of shaded outdoor patio space is always occupied by families and couples that come and sit outside of roll-up doors in front of restaurants. So there's a way the site kind of has a life all day long in a range of weather conditions. And it's very intimate. It's very village-scaled, if you will. This is another sense of how you can put a play area in the middle of it. It's casual. It's clean. And I think this is something that would befit a future retail picture for the site. This is a type that hasn't really changed. It's been an ever present in our presentations about the landing. These are the sort of cottages or tiny homes that we've described to you earlier in the presentation. This is an example from one of the manufacturers of these homes. It's not a trailer home. It's got a foundation. It comes in modular pieces and is assembled on site. Those walls are prepared in a factory, so it's prepared more affordably. And they look great inside. I mean, that's like 800 to 1,000 square feet. That looks like a one-bedroom unit there. And the bottom left is an example where a a community housing complex of a for sale product. And you actually own up to your lot line. These are very small lots that are 2,000 to 4,000 square foot lots.

Yeah. And we hope to provide some sort of a yard area, a small area that each owner can have as well. These are not attached units. We don't believe that that kind of product is really compatible with your community We think that there's a high need for detached small units, and that's what we're trying to reflect in this development.

This one is significantly updated. The last time we came, we were talking about very creative, progressive container hotels. These are trendy. You see them in the deserts of Southern California. We've revised this to be a kind of upscale but unassuming what one local entrepreneur called a mountain modern cabin. And their one story, they are usually in a campus-like setting or a camp-like setting that sometimes might host music, food, or gathering events. It's the sense of a weekend resort. But it's not on a lake. It's connected to downtown. So people are stepping out of their cabin and walking or driving a few blocks up to downtown. The interiors are usually elevated. These are not as rustic as they look on the outside. And the site is amenitized. It's going to have trails, maybe bike borrow or bike rental. And there are a lot of differences with the Mount Shasta Resort in that sense.

Yeah, and if I must interject here, these don't have full kitchens, and there's a reason for that. We want to encourage the people who are visiting there to... go to downtown to dine in downtown. We encourage them to go to the restaurants. We purposely have recommended no kitchen facilities, but the interiors of these would be extremely modern. That's why we call them mountain modern. From the outside, they look like something that really befits your community, but there is a need here for a tourism product that is totally updated and has all your modern conveniences.

You had a question?

It is. It is a huge bath. I mean, obviously, this is something that could be, that the actual operator could, you know, but the prototype that we looked at, they did put a big bathtub in. I'm not sure if that... Yeah, I know, it is. But the real key item is everything is new, modern, spiffy, I'd actually like to recommend that they are dog-friendly as well, that you have concrete floors and that they welcome dogs. That would make a very particular niche in this market, because if you are somebody coming from Sacramento or the Bay Area, it is very difficult to find dogs. a place where the dogs are welcome. Having been very close to people who are dog owners, there are many people who will not travel unless they travel with their dog. So why not just own it and have a place that is completely dog friendly?

Am I still connected? Here we go. These are usually connected to a lodge that is the head of the operation. An event barn is a great way of hosting events without looking out of character for the area. That's why we've actually partly covered the image in the back. We thought that was too large an example. But this is the kind of barn that would have weddings. We sort of want to grow the market and see if we can host weddings as well as McLeod does. A facility like this could be catered by restaurants and businesses just up the street in downtown. And that would be something you could put in that land use restricted area at the top. So you're making efficient use of the site connected to that Mill Pond Park. I mean, I just picture a wedding that goes out into the park with a view of Mount Shasta, the lake before you, and they've stepped just outside of the property of the cabin. And you've got these photo ops. So there's a lot of synergy about the genius loci of the site, so to speak. These are images of the example on the right. And I think the top left are from two of our precedents. And the bottom left is an example from a much lower, smaller scale precedent that hosts music events on a regular basis. Their theme was music. But again, it's very intimate. This is different from the 2,000 people you can host in one of your city parks.

One of our goals is to provide a visitor-oriented facility that we hope will set you on the map. One of the earliest conclusions we came to is doing just another traditional service-oriented, you know, excuse me, limited service hotel in the early years really isn't going to do that for you. So if we can create something very creative, very differentiated, something that is really appealing to your visitor market and really expresses what your community is all about, that we think that will be better for you long term. Not that there isn't room for a limited service later on down the road, but why not try to embrace this of doing something that's quite distinguished from what you already have in the market.

This is an image, skipping back to the residential product, the row rental. This is an example image of it. I'll skip right to. This is a rental product. It's essentially a townhome with one story. I'm not sure there aren't lofts up in those dormers in this precedent. But it has a common porch. This is almost like a cottage-like architecture. Do you have a question? Yep. In the two examples I've seen of the tiny home product, there's usually a small parking lot that's very close to the homes, but the developers have preferred a park-like setting that you walk to your cottage or cabin on a paved sidewalk. And it's a short walk that's adjacent. I agree. In the examples we've seen, there are not always snow. I think one of the examples was from Oregon, but they don't see as much snow because they're on the further on the east side.

And you're right, there could be... We feel that those are the kinds of things we can always incorporate into the actual, because you can have electrical vehicle charging stations as part of the program. But the one thing I wanted to point out about these rentals, I mean, that doesn't look like a traditional rental, does it? It looks like a real home. And that's the kind of aesthetic I think that would be very appealing to this community. If you look at it, it looks low density, looks almost like a single family residence, but it's not. Those were, if you can envision in your head, six rental units in one phase built like that. And it provides a much more homey and much more an atmosphere that is compatible with your community.

So one of the things you can imagine, and this makes me think of examples I've seen in Hawaii, which doesn't have snow, but has a configuration that would work for parking, is that you can have a back alley behind this row of homes. and you're actually parking in the back off of that alley in a common garage building, and everybody has their own door. It's single or double-sided. It's 10 or 14 feet wide, and then there's a small patio space or garden between the back of that garage and the back of the rental facility, the rental property, and you enter in the back. Another way you could do it is a snow-bearing carport behind or adjacent to that, with a covered walk. And so if you build that to support snow, you have the ability to not deal with snow while you're parking in a setting that is otherwise pedestrian. So there's a lot of examples out there that make this work. And it's not a one-to-one relationship between the precedent we show and what we would do in Mount Shasta to meet your needs.

And we also hope that the eventual developer will customize it in terms of design in terms of an aesthetic that meets the local needs and things like snow, and things like that.

This example has not changed. We showed this at the first presentation. It's this idea of a motor coach resort. These, again, are upscale. It's not just an RV park, but it's more like what you're seeing on the bottom right, where it's a very manicured site. There's usually amenities like fire pits. Sometimes they even have a stainless steel kitchen under a gazebo. These are high service, high amenity resorts, if you will. and you pay a higher fee, you have to reserve it ahead of time. Some people have longer stays. They fascinate me because I haven't seen a lot of them in California and there is an interest in them. And then the limited service hotel, we haven't really changed the recommendation of this use in the future of the site, but some of the images we're looking at are a little more regionally appropriate. This was a precedent that Linda found in her research. And then these other images also give a sense of the sort of height and girth of a building like that down by the freeway. One of the last use examples or development types is this community or public safety center. This is an idea that's been floated to solve a lot of the city's challenges with regard to fire and police space needs. And a facility like this tends to also have training space for county or police departments. You can have a kind of meeting point between different tiers of safety or fire. You know, CAL FIRE can come in and coordinate. A facility like this also has community rooms where you can invite the public in to talk about what do you do with your property for fire safety, you know, training about the new CAL FIRE recommendations. Very importantly, a facility like this can also have lay-by or parking area such that if you have a fire conflagration in the region, they can use this facility for parking, staging, coordinating. So I think a thing like this could possibly win a grant in the future and better serve the whole region, not just the city. I think it's a cool concept. And this was a list of outdoor public spaces that we had at the tail end of our last presentation, and we'd like to see an example of all of these in our final plan. So that's where we're at right now, a better sense of site layout, a better sense of the uses, and it's supported by an economic study that's forthcoming as a memo from you, Linda.

Can you explain the next process?

Yeah, so this is a good chance to have discussion. This is also a good chance to explain the posters at the back are an opportunity for you to vote on some of your priorities and your preferences in response to some of the images we've shown. On the right, that board number one, those are just broad visioning statements. None of those ideas on that number one board are bad ideas, but by allowing you to only vote for three of them, we're really forcing you to tell us what's your priority, what's most important to you among those things you're reading about. If there's something you really dislike or feel is something we need to shy away from or de-emphasize, you can vote on the right side of it to de-emphasize that. those will become sort of guidelines at the front of the master plan. Board three with images of the future, you can vote on those in terms of things you like and dislike. It can even just be about the look of the architecture. Whatever you want to give in terms of input can also be put on a post-it, write it down with the post-it on your table and the marker on your table, and just slap that in that little box to the right of each of those uses. And that is another way for you to give us direct comments that we will write down and include in the master plan. So it's simple as that. Have a look at the map as well. And we're also here for discussions. If you have questions you want to bring to the public, please.

Before we begin the process where we hope to get your participation, are there any other questions you'd like to provide for us?

Yeah, so I was wondering about, I know that you were talking about the size of the lot and the prefab nature of the house being how to keep it low. I'm just worried about, like, what if private equity is just going to buy all these up for a short-term rental in the future if the moratorium doesn't stand? That seems to be what happens with people like myself looking for long-term rentals.

You're talking about those big firms that buy up rentals? Well, one of the ways to prevent that, and we have incorporated this into the plan, is to make sure that each phase are small in number of units. Let's just, for discussion purposes, say you only release five or six units at a time, and you pre-sell them. Before you have done any construction at all, you make sure that they go to people who really live here. and that they're not second homeowners. They are primary homeowners. That's the way you prevent it. Because those companies you're talking about, they buy those big, huge 200 units at a time. They're not going to have interest in your five or six units melted as a phase. That's just not in their realm of thinking. I know very well because having worked in Texas, these big developers come in, they build a huge number of units, but that's not what we're saying. It's not even appropriate for your community. We have to be very sensitive to your demand and the low densities that you have of population base here, and we have to build accordingly.

And I think you're also referring to the vacation home rental challenge as well. People who buy an individual one, and they're just renting it out on VRBO or Airbnb. And it sounds like there's a moratorium right now, and we've talked about that. Right.

Yeah, I'll chime in just to clarify real quick, that the city already has a short-term rental ordinance, and that ordinance will already prohibit short-term rental permits from being distributed to clients. RESIDENTIAL USES. SO THAT WON'T EVEN BE AN OPTION IN THE FUTURE FOR THESE UNITS.

The one that, I guess, is similar to Siskiyou Lake Resort, but not by the lake. That would be like one owner that would own that and rent that out.

No, that's exactly right. It'd be one hospitality, one hotel company owner that owns it. They're building individual cabins. They have no kitchens. Think, if you will... like the development of Summit Lofts, except now we have little cabin rooms that are dispersed among the trees. Everything is modern. It's owned by one. They are not permanent residents. They're only for visitors.

Hi, thank you, Linda and Jonathan and Council. My name is David Reynolds. I'm Executive Director of Shasta Mountain Music. We're a 501C3 based in Mount Shasta. And our focus is bringing quality music into the area. And our focus on this process is taking a look at the proposed performing arts center, Bringing music into an area, quality music, has significant economic and social benefits to the community. And by quality music experience, I'd like to talk about the structures themselves. Because working with musicians up and down California in different venues, we've seen a variety of quality structures. where they're sited, sometimes they're sited incorrectly. The band is right into the heat of the afternoon sun. Mixed use spaces don't always work, wedding music. And as you continue in the planning process, I'd like to be certain that there is some consideration for the acoustics in creating that quality experience. I WANT TO ADD THAT I'M EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OF COURSE, OF THE NONPROFIT, BUT I'M ALSO REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR THE CALIFORNIA BLUEGRASS ASSOCIATION. AND FROM REDDING, UP THE STATE LINE, FROM ARCADA TO MODOC.

AND I'VE BEEN NOMINATED FOR THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. IT'S THE LARGEST BLUEGRASS ASSOCIATION IN THE COUNTRY. SO WE WORK A LOT WITH NASHVILLE ROUTING BANDS UP AND DOWN THE I-5.

And right now I have two Grammy-winning bands, separate things, Jason Carter with the Dow McCrory Band and Molly Tuttle's bass player, but I don't have a venue. So we've been working on a music program in McLeod, but we're quickly outgrowing that. We'd like to bring it into Mount Shasta. So we certainly appreciate that a performing arts center is being considered for this. So I want to thank you and...

I was looking at the parks that you mentioned on there. I don't know if you're aware there's a separate park district from the city with a pretty tight budget. What would be the revenue source for maintaining these parks?

You've asked a very valid question, a very serious one, one we have expressed to Kim Fowler as well. You're quite correct that many of these parks require quite a bit of maintenance by the municipality. There are several ways to handle this, and I'll let Kim discuss this. One thing is, like at the northern end where there's the pond area, that you could wait until some of the other projects are bringing in TOT revenues or other revenues to the city and then use those revenues to maintain the park. But you're quite correct. These are amenities that require city infrastructure costs as well as maintenance.

Unless things have changed. The park district is a separate government entity. It's a special district, separate from the city. So TOT currently, unless the city wants to share it, doesn't go to the park district. And the park district's primary revenue is from property taxes, which is a pretty small portion. So just something for you to explore.

I did understand that, right.

Real quick, I got here real quick. But yeah, so, but the city does have parks that we maintain, right? The Parker Plaza is city. It's not a park district, right? So yeah, public works would be handling that. So like they're saying, once we get the people coming in there, we start building up the TOT, that's going to cover any expense of maybe hiring another public works just to handle the park maintenance and stuff like that, right? Because it's not, the park district is separate. So the city park here and Chastise are part of the park district. but Parker Plaza and the Castle Daylighting, if that happens, would all be administered by the city, and this would be administered by the city, so it's separate from the district.

Rosalind McCoy. Sewer lines, what are you proposing? I mean, once upon a time, they were talking about punching under the freeway. Is that currently your proposal, or...?

First of all, we are not that specific yet in terms of knowing where and how to stick that sewer connection. I have seen the drawings that have studied that possibility. There's the need to get under the railroad tracks and get past the freeway to the west of this image. And one of them goes up north and goes under, and another looks at possibly borrowing some of the space with the rail underpass. And we haven't chosen yet. We will probably make a recommendation of one or two of those options. And what we are certain of is there's probably going to be a needed upgrade in Mount Shasta Boulevard itself in terms of flow rate and diameter. That's not really surprising, but you're right. There is a proposal out there to look at possibly going under the freeway. We haven't chosen yet. We haven't gotten to that level of granularity, but I've seen those reports and there is also a pricing feasibility study to that as well. It's a couple of years old now, I think.

So are you saying that you might put it into the sewer line that's on Mount Shasta Boulevard currently?

A portion of the site would be served by the sewer line in Mount Shasta Boulevard and And some of the drawings I've seen offer a possibility of doing an entire separate sewer system feeding the southern half, or excuse me, connecting the southern half of the site to its own connection under the freeway. And then there's a third proposal to, or a third possibility of sending most of the sewer flow up through the site to the north connection that already makes it past the freeway just off the map to the northwest of the drawing there.

Would that require pumping?

I do not believe so. Those are based on the fall lines, which are generally to the west in this drawing. And for most of the site, that's actually to the northwest, surprisingly. It's parallel to the mountain, not just away from the mountain.

So we've been talking about being a Pacific Crest Trail stopover and having a high-end RV park. doesn't really cater to that population. Are you going to put in camping and showers and so forth?

And I apologize, we didn't point out where that could be or we really like this area right over here on the east side for a hostel for the Pacific Crest Trail because it leads right into the trail system. It's a nice small rural kind of treed location. We'd like that location as a place to put the hostel.

Another idea that's been floated in the city has been a carve-out of either the RV or the resort area, cabin area, that could be a city-owned and operated affordable RV site that would still have to be controlled. We can't have people living there. But it would be one to two night stays that would still be paid at a very low rate. city operated or city maintained, possibly a very small revenue stream that mostly covers its own maintenance. So that carve out is another creative idea that was brought to us not a day and a half ago. So that was an interesting one too.

All right. It looks like I'm just wanting to make sure I didn't hear it mentioned, but I believe is that green line with an arrow pointing kind of to the east, is that the existing mountain bike trail? Are you just denoting that's going to be preserved?

Yes, I think that's the approximate route of the Pioneer Trail. Yeah, it looks like it is. And we want to make sure there's a good crosswalk here to connect whatever we're doing in the site to that existing regional asset. Cool.

Awesome. And then on that same note, two things I'm wondering about, talking about going under I-5 already, I'm wondering about the possibility, so the tracks go under and then just if you're looking from the site under I-5 there, elevated above the tracks and to the looker's left there is like a dirt road? And I'm wondering about making a trail that would eventually, and I realize this is outside of the scope of this project, but eventually connect over to Lake Siskiyou with the goal of actually building a trail. This is getting ahead of ourselves, but from here all the way out to Lake Siskiyou, like a bike path. But, you know, starting that and leaving room for that there.

When we were down in that corner, that's one of the lowest points of the site on that edge. It's this, we're referring to this point here for everyone's benefit. You're at a low point where you're looking up at the freeway and you're eye level with the tracks. And there's a gaping underpass under the five where the train runs. And they need 16 feet of clearance. And there is a dirt access road that I believe is probably railroad property. And the first thing I thought is that would be a great trail connection. I know. In Southern California, where I'm from, there is a lot of that, where borrowed space under a freeway or over a freeway is made to be a publicly accessible utility or privately controlled space that is usually a paved bike path, and there's a chain link fence so you can't touch the train, or it's... a high-tension cable fence, and so you can ride on a paved path right next to the railroad. I've also seen that on drainage ditches. So, yeah, borrowing those access roads is a totally valid way with precedent.

One thing we didn't discuss is we envision, too, for those lodge cabins there, that the owner, the operator, could provide, let's say, free bikes there. and you have a bike path, and guess what? The bike path goes directly to downtown. Or if you had the bike path like you talk about, going to Lake Siskiyou. It could be a tremendous amenity, and one that is not just used by visitors, but used by locals as well.

Sometimes a path like that can win separate Caltrans grants, because Caltrans is very good at emphasizing pedestrian walkability, safe routes to schools. I think a paved path like that on the West edge of the site would probably have to have some bollards or pedestrian lighting to feel safe. Even if it's going through trees, it's going to be paved, navigable, may even be like a blue light next to it or something, safety measures. So, yeah. Question in the audience?

In your initial hometown meeting, there was a discussion about the inclusion of Native American culture Wondering if that is still a point of consideration or an opportunity for discussion. And it can tie in, I believe, in the multi-use areas, as well as joining forces with the city to have access to a cultural center because of the rich history of the Native Americans in this area. Having that included in your proposal, I think would be not only beneficial for the community, but also for the visitors that come to Mount Shasta. It would also support this gentleman's recommendation for music. because of the Native Americans and their traditional teachings and the songs, it would tie into what he's talking about in relationship to offering a real rich history. And if it can be included in your proposal as a tie-in to the city and the community as well, supporting that whole movement towards that, It really is a beneficial opportunity for the entire park.

There's a few spaces where we could emplace that idea. And nothing is settled, so there's a flexibility in how we can apply it. I'm trying to get my cursor. Oh, there it is. One of them is right here in a corner or the junction with this lodge and event space that might be borrowed by the cabins to the south. If more of this was public space, and an event hall was rentable by visitors to the city, but as city operated, um, that could be a space that also honors and accommodates, uh, indigenous events that are based in a local tribes presence here or use. Um, that can also be something that's permanently built into the spaces around it in terms of art memorials, acknowledgement of, again, this, the kind of magic of the place because you have the mountain, you have, um, The ability to see a lot of the landscape from some of these points on the site too. So this is one of those opportunities. There's actually been a proposal for a community center or some kind of meeting hall here in prior drawings that were shown with the RFP of this project. That's why we continue to reserve that space. There's room for a 7,000 to 9,000 square foot building right there. So how that's paid for from fees that are connected to a retail or housing development to the south, there's ways to do that. Another place that I personally like to imagine that also occurring is in some of the public spaces. Down here in this mixed use area, is there a way that any open space reserves can, alongside views of the region or the mountain itself, also have public art spaces where people can sit that aren't just dine and dash spaces. They're part of benches, shaded areas, small performance spaces that are connected to the road or a promenade that also have a view of the mountain. moments where you sort of get a sense of the region. So those are two places I like to think about where that could happen.

In fact, I think he failed to mention in our brainstorming session, Jonathan liked the pond area because it is a great view of Mount Shasta. If that could be amenitized as a really beautiful pond area and also had some of your commemorative area, that would be a beautiful spot to put it. That's my own personal view.

My name is Todd Anthes and I appreciate you putting this proposal together. I did not make it to the first meeting. However, has there been a feasibility study done on the hospitality side? would be my first question. I see this proposal is really TOT driven, and my concern is the smaller motels from this development to downtown, which I own several of them. I'm not worried about my hotels as much as some of these other ones becoming monthly rentals and turning that as kind of a blighted area as I've seen in some other communities.

You've mentioned something that we have also mentioned to the developers. This is a first stage approach. The niche that we're looking at is hopefully not going to... It is our intention not to be directly competitive with anything that is already in downtown. It is meant to expand the visitor base, not to take away from what is already here. Now, having said that, I've even said to the developers, a more intensive hotel study needs to be done from an operational standpoint. As you know, last season was a tough snow season and it is very difficult because of the way CoStar and the hotel industry combines figures. I'm getting into much more detail than most of this audience understands, but they tend to combine hotels in Wairika, for example, which are not comparable to Mount Shasta. So there is a real need to do a customized study, and I suspect it will be required by the lender.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm with the Siskiyou Housing Alliance. I'm just on the board there. And in July, our executive director, Evan Drake, spoke. And we're in the early stages of just trying to help the housing situation. And community land trusts are one focus. And they are a thing that ensures that people of certain income brackets in perpetuity can afford housing either to rent or to own. And I just want to remind people that That is something that we know we need and hopefully that that can happen I watched the video of the July meeting and I was kind of sad to see some well-known city members shaking their head when a couple people suggested that Amtrak stop here and Anyway, it just made me sad that that sounds like we all love our cars so much that that may never ever happen and But your point about the parking, somebody said, it's a true thing in a snow town. And also I think that is why a lot of mountain towns have several stories. They need to park their car at the bottom story of their house so the snow plows can come and do their work. Sadly, we are an aging area, and that's kind of what we need to fix, I think. We need a population base that's a little bit lower. Or we need to just make it healthy. We're kind of unhealthy right now, because we're all getting old. So if that wants to be the trend of the city, then I suggest you put some senior care centers down there, okay? Or buy the land by Eschaton and build something there, the land that's for sale. So, yes, downtown. Maybe our downtown is not doing well right now. We have empty businesses. Because the quote you give is retail follows residence. Well, is that why we can't rent those spaces or keep those shops open? happening downtown because our core resident population has gone down 10% in the last, you know, actually in a 10-year period it went down 10%. We're not as bad as Mammoth Lakes. They've gone down over 15%. And they... They actually had a meeting in May and they worried that their town is gonna become a ghost town because 60 to 65% of their houses sit empty because they're recreational use only. 60 to 65, we're only at the 30% level here. So I'm wondering, great, this is awesome. We have this big piece of property that we can do so much with and dreaming is the most fun thing anybody could ever do. But why aren't we paying attention to the core of town? And I know I'm, like, pooping on your parade. But why are we not... All those fatty cysts of houses that sit empty 11 months of the year. We're letting that happen. Is that what Alpine hospitality is? Do we give the best place to the people who are never here? Do we give the most modern, beautiful place to the people who are never here? do we make community land trust down there where the parents have to drive their children into town to school because you know they can't ride their bike every single day to school is is that the kind of housing we want for the people who actually live here year round do we want row apartments do we want Anyway, is that what we really want? Do we need to do a little medical work on our core part of the city? Because I find it depressing to see these empty places and these rentals that aren't being rented. And I know there's been a few ideas of vacancy taxes and things like that. But is it going to be like we've all seen towns where the middle dies and a suburb exists? And is that what we want, you know, because it's new and sparkly? I'm going on and on. But just if you're interested, you can't get insurance for a house here now if it has actual wood siding on it. So those pictures with the true wood siding, those have to be taken away. So you can get fake wood, but they don't allow wood anymore. A few businesses, I thought, they don't make many jobs that would be down there. If we could have Q Cabins of Chico come and have an office here, they build fire-resistant, slightly prefab buildings that do not... ECO BUILT HOMES ARE IN OTTAWA, CANADA. THEY COME FROM 450 SQUARE FEET TO 2,000 SQUARE FEET OR BUSINESSES. THEY ALSO MAKE SHAPES TO ALLOW FOR BUSINESSES. So there's a business called Source 2050 that has products for smart building techniques. Anyway, all those have to do with building. I really hope we get a mill again because all of the wood for making our forests healthy again needs to be milled close by. I'm not saying there should be a mill there, but I just really hope that we can get a mill because that wood right now is being trucked a long ways away to be processed by somebody else. SO I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME THAT OUR CORE OF OUR CITY IS NOT HEALTHY AND THEN WE GET THIS THING THAT MIGHT SURVIVE AT THE LOWER END OR IT MIGHT NOT SURVIVE. I don't know. I think it's a health issue. Do you try to take care of yourself, or do you just hope you can get a new hip or hang a colostomy bag on yourself when things fail? We don't really want to do that. Anyway, thank you.

I have just a thought about the pond, which is beautiful. But just about mosquitoes comes to my mind. Just an issue, potentially. And if it were to be smaller, it could be a place where there is the outdoor amphitheater, something with a beautiful mountain view, and noise could work over in that area, maybe. Okay. And then the other thing just about the prefabs which comes to mind is I know that some of them are having trouble because they're made not for snow and they have PEX tubing that bends and freezes and people are going into the walls. I've been hearing about that. So just to put it on the radar. And thank you for thinking things through.

Any first time speakers before we go to second round speakers? All right.

Thank you so much. Going off what she was saying, I am very worried about retail. I mean, our movie theater just closed. You know, we had a drugstore close. Like, you know, places like the Piedmont and Mike and Tony's, they go out of business and their buildings just sit empty. So I'm wondering about what we can do to get more retail.

As a retail international specialist, I would love to work on your downtown. I think it's wonderful. Keep in mind, you have the most vibrant downtown of anything between Reading and well past Wairika. You have to go way up north. But I understand your sympathies. That's one of the reasons we're not emphasizing the retail in any of the early stages of this project. I'm a strong believer in you building just as she mentioned, you work on strengthening what you already have, your core, before you build anything new. So that was never part of the plan to build retail early in the process. Your downtown is a different issue. I think you can always improve upon it. But may I say a compliment, you having done a lot of work nationally and internationally, You have some wonderful entrepreneurialism in this town. This is highly unusual. Number one. Two, you have some really high quality restaurants for a small town of your population. That is very, very unusual. And number three, since COVID, you've had some new openings of shops that you go away with bags that are very creative. You have people that are committed to this town in a very positive way. Obviously, some of that has to be matured, it has to be strengthened, and it's our goal to bring in that kind of market to help that. The other issue I will say about the loss of young people, she's absolutely right, you've lost population in the last 14 years. One of the goals here with the rental housing in particular and the starter homes is to provide housing for younger people so they won't feel so motivated to move away. But there's But you need the land area, you need the motivation, you need the city behind you to make that happen. So hopefully that will help to stop that kind of bleeding of people moving away. But you're not the only city that is exhibiting that. It's this county-wide problem.

It's also an opportunity to remind ourselves about the synergy you can get with a site like this. It's developable now. in portions without much of a sewer upgrade or utility investment. And that can immediately bring additional visitors that is in its own way a kind of boost or juicing of downtown's vibrancy. This kind of thing brings wallets to town. They're going to drive or walk up north the half mile to feed those businesses. Some of the other ideas that you're seeing before you on the map, this fire police headquarters idea or joint facility, it doesn't have to be big because right now police are in about 1,100 square feet. The fire is in a similarly small facility. So the lift isn't that high, but the point is if they're moving down to be headquartered, adjacent to the landing site that unlocks developable or renovatable land right in the heart of downtown. That's a quick opportunity right at the core intersection of town. So these little things to me are almost synergies that kind of juice downtown and boost it rather than take away from it. And of course, the retail is small here. We're talking 20 to 25K, which is four, five retail base.

No, no, it's not.

It's bigger than that. It's a little bigger than that.

We envision very small entrepreneurial kinds of spaces, but keep in mind, again, as someone who specializes in retail on a national and international basis, there's a kind of a core belief. You don't expand your retail until your existing retail is vibrant and strong. This is why we're not recommending that the retail be expanded in the early years. I couldn't agree with you more, because I respect the entrepreneurialism that is in this town, and you want to grow that, strengthen it, encourage it, and then hopefully you're providing innovative space for these people to expand because they're meeting the needs of the new residents in this area, the new visitors in this area. And remember, the whole goal here is to increase your housing, increase places for primary home people to live, not second home people. And there is ways to do this. And what you're also trying to increase is a new encouragement of a different kind of visitor to come here and really appreciate your community.

I'm going to take a second bite at the apple here. I want to respond to your comment about different type of music coming into the area. I also want to talk a little bit about what other mountain communities have done to bring people in, and often it's centered on a music venue. I'm thinking of Telluride. We have some commonalities between the two areas. And although I'm heavily involved with the national and statewide bluegrass, to borrow a phrase, we're hardly strictly bluegrass. Discover Siskiyou has put our nonprofit together with the Shasta Ski Park, and we're creating a festival there for next year, hopefully. And we're bringing in some different types of bands, Cajun, you know, from New Orleans. We're talking to some folks down there. and other types of music. And going back to what music can identify a community, much as it has with Telluride and other communities. Properly sited, properly built, a significant venue will be able to host music year-round with everything from symphonic music to bluegrass to jazz and so forth. That's the kind of vision we have within our nonprofit for this area.

The city is very lucky to have you.

So there's a lot of talk of... I like the idea of the rentals that don't have kitchen facilities. People just from right there can walk to Seven Suns, Harvest, or the native grounds, the nursery there. But obviously some people are going to want to go downtown, and that's part of the goal there as well. And I'm wondering if it's possible to get some sort of... obviously like a trolley system or some sort of non-personal vehicle, non-car mode of transportation. Bikes are awesome. We should all bike everywhere. But like non-motorized, again, non-personal vehicle system. I realize this project is for a specific area and like the city is going to have to do something to do that. But maybe incorporating something in here that could then be

like expanded by the city so like uh like a d like a depot of some sort of trolley here just so we're not trying to shoehorn it in after things are built i i would completely agree we've talked about the need for what we call active mobility which is anyone biking walking or then also walking to a transit option as you mentioned yeah and we probably need to look at some kind of pedestrian improvements between the site and to the north on Mount Shasta Boulevard to ensure the connection to downtown is safe, walkable, adequately lit, and has enough distance between you and a car going by at 35 miles an hour. And this kind of thing can be supported by, again, a Caltrans grant that has nothing to do with use or the city, but is about safety and walkability that is their focus these days. And this is something, example, City of Bishop. They had won some grants that paid for pedestrian lighting, a new curb gutter sidewalk, connecting some of the reservation and indigenous land to their core at the Y with Highway 6. So those are examples where I can see that vision. And this is something that would be

capital improvement that is related to the site but off-site and I think would benefit and I can I address though the shuttle idea because I've seen developments of about this size more most typically they're privately owned but but I don't see why a city can't do it and you can have very inexpensive shuttle services that aren't horribly expensive sometimes they're even done with kind of redone golf carts or small little mobile trolleys that look like trolleys. And they can be either done on an on-call basis or during your peak season, which would be the summer months, you have a regular program where they go back and forth. I think it'd be a phenomenal idea. And also for helping your downtown, you just make sure that that service is there during your peak months. And hopefully you have less seasonality as this project matures and as your community matures, you have less seasonality with the winter months. And maybe you can activate that then as well. But you don't have to spend big money for those kinds of services.

So I lived at that far end town and I had two small children and when we get snowstorms there is no driving and the distance to get to a grocery store was quite a ways with hauling two children also and we're not looking at any really Grocery stores at that end of town, and is it going to be a food desert kind of thing?

Having spent quite a bit of time in snow communities, I can relate. We hope that's on a temporary basis. However, having said that, the developers have even asked me, when you say a food desert, I think there is a potential for eventually that small-to-retail component to have a small, what I call, let's call it a, I don't want to call it a convenience center. I would call it more as a boutique, deli kind of upscale kind of store where somebody living in that market could walk over, get their milk, get their deli items, get their cheese, get whatever. And it doesn't have to be a lot of square feet. I've seen this done where maybe it's only 2,000 square feet. Maybe there's an entrepreneur in your city already that recognizes, wait a minute here, they recognize this issue. And also to the extent that you have seniors or older people living there, what a nice amenity that would be. They can just walk over to the store instead of having to go into town.

Something I also want to add to this conversation is that That's a use we can allow and recommend, but as a municipal master plan, we're actually not specifying exactly what the tenancies will be. What we should do when we hear an idea like yours, which is a really good one, is to make sure that the zoning and development guidelines allow for a building that suits that kind of use. The land use table in the master plan includes that as an allowed use. And because the developers are right here, they're also hearing that and they're understanding there might be a market for that. And we also recommend study that, consider it. So the master plan isn't going to prescribe exactly what every tenancy will be, but it's good that we hear from you today because we're going to make sure we include the ability to do so. That's the role of the master plan.

Do you want to use this as an entree into the exercise?

Yeah, make sure that you're voting and providing that comment also written. We're hearing you. This meeting is recorded. It's going to be on the city website. And it's an idea that I've also shared. I love the idea of a small deli or bodega market that supports and supplements the larger ones that are in town now. But Please provide comments as well here. I want to make sure everyone votes. We're recommending people put three votes on that first board, number one board, and then if they want to downvote something as well, throw a dot on there for that. We've got more up here if you're running low over there.

We just want to allow enough time to really get some feedback from you. Are there any other questions? Go ahead, yeah.

Building on Rosalind's, well, two things. I was here the first presentation. It's really wonderful to see what you've done from then to now. So I just want to thank you so much for all of your work to put into this. I want to write a story about this, but what comes to mind is conscious, intentional community, considerate community development. That's what I'm feeling here. Can we quote you? That's great. Absolutely. Or I'm quoting you. So I just want to say one thing I didn't see reflected in the pictures, and maybe you spoke to it and I missed it, but just what are your thoughts about families, about little kiddos, like the space for families?

Well, Jonathan did describe some of the things. For example, the green space in the retail should provide for families. One of the stakeholders had mentioned that they were looking for some activities for children. Even though I know it's kind of an adventurous idea, but the idea of mini golf was not intended to be like one of those corny little clown things and whatever, but it was more intended to be a part of the natural landscape where children would be welcome and give them something active to do. We didn't think that the clown things and all that would be appropriate for Mount Shasta, but why not It is actually a leading trend to take the natural landscape, create little bunkers, create areas, but make it affordable for young people to play golf. I mean, if you go to the golf course over the Mount Chester, you have to pay the full fee and you play the nine holes. But why not make it something that they can do?

That's another thing the master plan can do. As a high-level document that doesn't prescribe lot-by-lot use, it does have the ability to say, well, you have to have an open space reserve of a certain percentage. And that eventually gets actually documented in what's called an entitlements package, which is a more binding version of a master plan. And we can say in the southern half, in the residential portion, you have to have 2% to 5% open space set aside at the end of the project or met halfway through the development of housing tranches connected to that housing. And it can be in one piece or three pieces. And there's a minimum size. So these are the kind of guidelines that a master plan can have to memorialize and conserve an open space, and then you have a bullet list of it can be a tot lot, it can be a passive space, it can be an adult exercise space with a park horse in it, and those are the fun parts of a master plan, and they're usually about that size, and that's how they're governed. I designed a couple of tot lots in Southern California, one of them wanted an award. So it's a topic close to my heart and I love seeing that kind of thing included in a plan like this. So I'm with you there.

And we heard that from the community that families would like to place to take their small children as well. Oh, even their teenage children. And we envisioned the Northern area, the pond, the bike paths, the trail system, the lower area in the green space as part of the retail, the trail system to the east side, the open space with the, I mean, the golf is just one idea. Maybe it's an open space. But we, there you go. I wanted John to show that photo. Yeah, that's the retail version of that. Yeah, because we're very cognizant that one of the issues, again, that was mentioned earlier is that you are losing young people. So if you have these kind of amenities where families can be raised, that makes it much more appealing to them.

Well, I think we're ready to conclude. Do we want to? Yeah, let's take a look at the boards. And please don't leave without voting. Leave your comments. Write on the posters if you need to. All input is good.

For your Post-it notes that you have, if you'll attach them to the white poster board on the right so we can get them, go put your Post-it notes over there for us, and we'll get them off of that white poster board next to the things in the back.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you very much. I didn't mean to.

You're okay.

Oh, you're the same kid. You're so much more well-rested, Jeremy. I know. You're better now.

I know. You were all doing a huge job.

You're the bad kid.

I am the one who destroyed you.

Thank you. Good job, good job.