Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

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e e e all right uh we'd like to call the meeting to order for the PNC Planning and Zoning Comm Mission regular session March 11th 2025 um public comments public comments are limited to two minutes the Planning and Zoning commission is now permitted to respond to comments from the public for the Texas open meetings act third on the agenda is approve consider approval for the minutes of February 11 2025 for the planning zoning

committee uh commission meeting and take any action necessary do I hear a motion to approve the uh February 11th um Planning and Zoning meeting make a motion to approve I'll second motion passes all in favor I I all right fourth on the agenda is discussed the potential upcoming code changes um staff decisions with commission members on potential minor development standard code changes and enhancing the city development process and clarifying codes requirements and obtaining additional recommendations for future zoning and building code changes good evening um so uh this is a discussion item um that was brought up because we have um development standards that belong in the zoning code and these actually are not necessarily there but um we propose to bring them up officially with you and Council having a an initial discussion with you to kind of talk over the whole process of doing incremental additions and changes to to the code um because these are issues hold on these these um are four proposed

changes they're very small as you can see um but they are um I guess Perpetual thorns in the side of both the the development side code enforcement side planning side kind of um that we would prefer that we had and so um this is a conversation no action needed they're not an a formed to actually um go in and change make changes to the code and I'll probably uh based on the new city manager's preference that she wants to have a conversation with Council similar to this or if she wants to just go ahead anding bring the for forward um number one is having engineered plans be um required for commercial building permits right now we don't have anything in place other than what this the standards are um in the state however there are issues when there are need for additional scrutiny um and so we don't officially have any way to make a an applicant hire an engineer to um do structural um analysis for small jobs for example and so this gives the building officials some additional re leeway for those uh unusual circumstances that don't necessarily follow uh the best practices for The Architects and Professional Engineers so we just um have kind of added that it'll be in development standard kind of portion of the code um the second one has to do with

Paving so our code now um does require Paving um and the um engineered standards refer to the city standards but only allow for concrete um this would put in uh the additional requirement um that would allow asphalt to be um one of the choices obviously it's a lighter Duty um paving material but right now there's no Al there's no alternative it's conrete um and that gives some of these smaller parking lots um and parking areas a cheaper alternative particularly if price oil brings asphalt prices down um so we felt like that would be and uh un allowed kind of a a welcome um change to the code question on that um on these uh Paving requirements for those asphalt when you're talking parking lots on Commercial I'm assuming that that would get done through the permitting but that wouldn't be maintained by the city it would be on their their property so at the end of the day the city's not going to have to maintain any of that correct correct um and the I don't know what the code said before but when the um engineering City engineered standards were redone that also had a um a requirement for uh parking lots they took out asphalt I believe it Was An approved approved you know asphalt or concrete in many codes it just says asphalt or concrete it has

to be solid surface whatever it said they changed it to concrete and concrete it is right now so that um took away any option I mean obviously if you've got heavy duty uh trucks coming and going and turning and asshols AR going to hold up but a normal retail shop and driveway uh asphalt works fine and so we but we have to make people put in concrete right now um if it's commercial building and you're doing commercial parking lot and they have I think it probably and this is up for just discussion correct tell me if I'm thinking wrong but if it's a commercial building with a commercial parking lot 99% of the time now we're not talking about driveways but necessarily parking lots if commercial building it's going to have have a commercial trash can with a big dumpster that's going to be dumping all of that there's no way unless we do an asphalt portion of it and then maybe where the the containers are for trash must have concrete and you know I I don't know but asphalt is certainly not going to hold up especially if he has to turn it's all over so really if it's commercial parking lot in my eyes it kind of needs to be concrete for for just low maintenance on on the let's take for example if we could do um well across the street from um right there by a ABC ABC U Auto Parts you know there's a guy that built that red building right there that single story you know with these stoning the front of it if he did Asphalt in the front of that uh is that something that that he could do with these different and and how much would that hold up is

what I'm saying because there's going to be there's going to be big trucks if those are commercial that I'm afraid from an aesthetic from driving down the road if someone does maintain that parking lot and it's not concrete and they do have those trucks those big trash trucks on it it's not going to hold up but at the end of the day it may be something that needs to be approved on a Case bye case basis depending on you know what portion of the where the trash can is versus what portion needs to be concrete and then they maybe can save money on something but if you're going to have a big truck concrete truck there's no way that that's going to work if that's a good point and uh to throw another wrinkle into this whole thing we have the fire lane issue so if it's if there's a fire lane required it has to be concrete as part of the code so um but part of the issue we were having is people wanted to redo their parking lots and um even small like a you know a small business that didn't do anything except to have cars drive up and we still had no leeway to allow anything but concrete and so that and in typically cities it's it's PVE surfaces as needed uh to your point but we don't have that option right now how is how's the as needed regulated in other cities like I mean would it would every inance of somebody want to use asphalt instead of concrete come to us no it would be it would be staff it would be and typically um because James's Point um the the owner is responsible so if it doesn't hold up they're going to be redoing it because

the C is going to make it be paid and not in pieces so the city can make them I mean if it becomes a big isore out in front of their building and people are complaining not only are they not going to get business you know it's going to be an eyesore but the city can make them make them fix the asphalt at that time even though they don't have money maybe because their business I I don't know if that's a great idea that's all I'm saying I I don't know if it should be at minimal it needs to be Case by case for sure but at the end of the day um if it's a commercial business they've got the money to pay for if they don't have money to pay for concrete they probably don't need to be open up a business at the end of the day because you're going to have huge trucks coming through there you're GNA have and again it's Case by case it may be a it may be a dress well like for my business for example I just have a roll out trash can and I don't have it mine's an asphalt mine's asphalt I'm fixing to wrap it out and do concrete because it never holds up I get it redone every probably oh at least once a year um and uh it's fixing to get ripped up and we're going to do concrete and I don't even have trash trucks but I have a lot of traffic over there because we have quite a few people that come through there but um anyway just making a point the issue came up because um the for small business is obviously it can be the difference in um having the ability right and and typically if you've got the money you're going to go with the one that doesn't have to be redone all the time um and that that but because we do not have the ability for anybody to do asphalt at all right now it was it

was something that was brought up as an issue um that could be seen as an obstacle to being business friendly and so that's why we wanted to add it back into the code after it was removed I don't know if it was done on purpose or it was one of those things where it was a can development code that was lifted from somewhere else who knows where else with a different business climate than we have I don't even know this is a good disc this is a good discussion and it certainly is uh worth have but it was one of the things that was brought to us um with some of the issues that we were having trying to get compliance from folks particularly when they were redoing uses and re kind of um repurposing this we didn't have Asal at all as a requirement I think it probably NE for sure would have to be done by Case by case basis and I'm not sure that we're not opening up a discussion that says well you let this guy do do it but this guy didn't do it and that may be become a problem later on to just and that maybe that's why they they ex it in the beginning you know if it's a driveway and it's going straight into someone's house that's one thing but if it's a commercial properly property I I you know I just um a case by case at minimal but probably it's going to cause problems later on because you let this guy do it and why can't I do it the problem with the asphalt in the old system is it just said that you had to do concrete or asphalt and there was no design standard for asphalt so people would come in level it out put two inches of asphalt and then you know that's so I I do agree that I mean there needs to be something in there in regards to you know a design or something on what the minimum standards are for asphalt because just a lay it over top of dirt it's it's going to be the exact situation you're talking about

maybe it would need to meet a do standard asphalt mix and that's what I would definitely put in there at minimum the dot um standard asphalt mix would at least give it a little bit more you know workable that might be that's a good point also um but as as he brought up since we don't have it allowed in our code we couldn't have minimum standards for it so um we're kind of in Catch 22 so we could certainly make it that way give and and if the price of oil comes way down and it's a lot cheaper than that otherwise sometimes they're almost at the same price so on to the next which is um the fencing so we do not have any fence material standards in our code or screening standards uh for materials um I only discusses height uh and so what has happened is we have hodge podge of things like tarps and pallets and pieces of tin off old roofs and there I mean it's it's everywhere um and of course what happens not only does it look bad but it becomes apart and it falls down and and all that so um one of the proposals was to just specify materials for that are allowed um and and also those things that are not allowed um and the all other things for any kind of screening so people they'll try and cover up things in their backyard or um if they have a carport they just hang an old tarp in front of it and again um it

doesn't take long before those are shredded and look terrible and and you've you've almost got BL in the neighborhood this is primarily um an issue with residential dist districts not so much commercial however I mean sometimes commercial people get creative with their uh materials on fencing too and so um this is kind of a a list of what's uh what could be allowed in other words you need needs to be made specifically for fencing not loose materials that you have around and then prohibited um to make sure that we don't just let people pull things willly neilly out of construction and just throw them together so that that was the rationale behind that is this list pretty standard for what cities have as far as this actually came out of uh one of the cities that I've worked for in Temple was very comprehensive um and kind of never really found anything that should be on the list it wasn't um I don't sometimes they're not quite this um specific but since we've not have one I thought might as well lift lift it so I lifted it from there and the final one um has to do with again uh residential parking of trailer boat and RVs um they are on the grass in the front and and left all over town um and so

specifically um requiring them to be behind the front set back line and other I.E on the side of the back of the property um checks that box of having them in the front it also does not require that they own only Beyond pavement which is the next level um a lot of cities require no parking on anything except pavement um I don't know that we necessarily want to jump right into that Fray but the the main issues are the RVs and the trailers and uh the boats that are on grass and of course it turns into dirt then mud um in the front of the property and there's also a a you know kind of a a release that if it is U there's previously permitted dedicated concrete parking area um that happens to be in the front then then then it would be um fine but otherwise it needs to be the side and the back so if somebody comes to us and says hey I want to park my RV at my house I sure go ahead and and put a concrete pad or driveway or or something in the back or the side for it but if they already have one then we're not really penalizing them when we're really trying to stop people from parking in dirt now if you have any kind now that you see this for um we have I am have another list that this is just the first iteration so we have some other code more code kind of um items that we're kind of going to look for in the future that will be

um a little bit more inclusive so I I want for example to bring um separately not in a group like this um if there are other design standards that come up I have a list here somewhere I was going to read from but for example uh Town Homes right now the only way Town Homes can come in and it's a pretty popular um type of construction is with a PD and that means that you have to have a lot of design on the front end um to go to pnz and Council to request that it be allowed if we had it as a construction type with development standards with minimum setbacks and and sizes and lengths and all of those things then it it could go um by right say where multi anything where multif family could go for example right now we don't have that it's it kind of burdensome to the developer to have to do all the design up front to ask for something even in a multif family Zone um where it would an apartment building would be fine but if you want to actually make it better with individual a lots and sell them like that you have to come and get all of your design work done before you even hit Council um that just seemed a little backwards to me and so that was that's one um another one would be kind of looking and addressing downtown standards um for example just off the top of my head having Vape shots and tattoo parlors downtown probably make a lot of sense but right now um you know we really don't have anything you don't have any separation we don't have in some places don't allow them at all but um you certainly want separation so you

if you have you know a tattoo parlor every th000 feet maybe be all right but you don't want five of them next to each other on your downtown so we don't have any kind of you standards downtown for anything um another one is automotive repair and storage and screening and also a minimum lot size for some of these smaller lots that we have that are LGE Podge in next to housing um and they spill over you know their storage of their vehicles all that we need development standards for those um I had put noise regulation so um I don't know I guess we do have General noise but not construction noise uh or any kind of uh we don't have any permissions or anything and that's that that could probably potentially be an issue as we have more development where those um conflict with people in residents do we not have uh something in writing that says I thought we did on like if I'm pouring at the Country Club at 4:30 in the morning I can't really do that it's got to be after 7 correct okay we have construction hours yeah for for construction but but as far as noise goes it noise is just as if it constitute a nuisance but you know there's a lot of other cities we were looking at where they do if you're so many decimals above ambient or whatever the case so it's it's a little more specific as to what you know can actually be a violation and also to to that point um the the one thing that has been popular is Data Centers data centers are really really loud and it's a sound that is not like normal sound it is it's pervasive and those suckers

run 247 and not having anything I mean how do you constitute a nuisance and so that actually happened in Temple we didn't know that how loud they were and this particular one moved in um adjacent to the county um but we didn't have any we they did have deciel standards at the property line which at least held them to um a standard that was still pretty bad for the people but it would have been horrid if they hadn't had any standards at all so um you know they're as it's kind of as a zoning kind of a you know maybe have one level for downtown and one level for industrial um or or some something like that that kind of covers it and it's always at the property line anyway which our big industrial users have a fair amount of property around them so you're not necessarily um stepping on any of those toes but it would keep it U make a data center for example not annoy people that were nearby uh the land use table if you have spent any time in the zoning code is very old and our zoning districts in general kind of build on them themselves but we have some really outdated land juices like um tanning leather tanning companies and just really weird old timey kind of things that could could stand some uh updating I think they even call um um a car wash is an auto laundry or something like that I mean they don't have a what no modern nomenclature it means like back in the 50s 60 some of it

have been brought forward so just to update the land use table and kind of modernize some of the uses and where it's appropriate um mean the uh one of the last ones we kind of have talked about is uh we've had several people want to do food truck Court um which you see in some of the Metroplex cities and around Austin and places like that we don't have anything in our code that allows it doesn't all I mean we don't allow it and I don't even know same issue would come up as come as for town homes where you would make somebody engineer everything and have it all designed just to take it for special use permit which I'm not even sure about that and so having a set of standards that says you have to have X number of square feet on the lot and have you know no more than this and the hours all that set gives people who come in who want to do a business some set of Standards to be able to to adhere to without having to reinvent the wheel through you and PNC for every single or um Council for every single request that's my list um and this is kind of an opportunity if you have come across any of these or think go home and think about it and say you know what I wish we fill in the blank um call me email drop John a line something and we can is this is a these these would be you know mostly one or two at a time so that we don't over overwhelm everybody and as John pointed out um when we came in some of these things are in various places so the fencing is in one place and um uh the we have little there's there's stuff mentioned in streets and it's you know they all over so just a few of these are going to require us to

kind of cone through the existing City Coes and change and consolidate and put them and hopefully the the plan is to have it all in one place when we're finished but be able to do it and make it a mountpleasant document and not um hire a consultant and have them just redo everything in can that doesn't reflect who who and what we are and um to be fair that kind of happens haven't brought it Forward just because of the political climate but we have a document that that was done they spent almost $660,000 on um and and to be fair it does not have these Common Sense things in it um and so um but it does you know have increase a minimum square feet on housing and things that were maybe a little too metrop plexy for us and so if we can kind of get everybody on the same page we can do as as the Comfort level increases we can um maybe do larger pieces at a time but have a lot of input from the you know even from the public although these are pretty common sense that's all I got so I know all you guys live in the city limit so if there's especially from the code enforcement side you know that how we're trying to get the tarps and trying to clean if you see issues out there that that you know of that you know you'd like to bring forward that things that we need to address we'd certainly like to add anything um if you have anything in mind all right uh fifth on the agenda is the planning director's report so um we did have a

um special use permit that went forward um to city council that had come through here um they did approve it um at their last meeting um so I I guess it came through here on the 11th and there on the 18th say so a week later Council it did get approve as I know build for the um pass container ET so he should be get started PR quickly I've I've approved one minor plat since this we prepared this um which was changing lot lines I do that probably one or two every month at least where some my lot line either disappears or moves or com combination so we've been bringing those administratively they don't come through y'all anymore all right um anything else uh We've uh so we've already talked about the house um and the uh construction and the and the storage on that so that's all done I guess we're here for an adjournment so um do I hear a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all in favor I I motion to adour meeting adjourn