Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

Well, it's official time. Um, this is a special meeting um to discuss the uh engineering services proposed by Gartley and Dorski. And um so we have almost everybody here from the Harbor Committee, general public, if you want to speak, I'm more than happy to have you speak. just tell uh state your name so that we can keep it recorded in the minutes. And uh John, I'm going to open the I'm going to let you have the start off with you and Greg.

Sure. Uh thanks for coming. Um some of your faces look familiar from the meeting down at the fleet. Uh glad you guys were able to step up and put in a proposal for us. Um, and you know, as you can tell, your proposal was the chosen one that we've decided to to work towards. Uh, I don't know if you guys want to introduce yourself to the committee. Sure. I'm Will Gartley, president of Garly Borski Engineering Survey. I'm Eric Stewart, a senior engineer. Mariam, special engineer.

Great. Yeah, I would say uh thanks for a well thoughtout proposal. Um been on the harbor comm's plan and mine for a long time. So excited to get a thorough sort of at it. Um and from there I think um you guys have some questions. I I might have some myself. I tried to give you a sneak peek earlier today of of things on mind but I I'll see if the committee has any first and maybe those will answer some of the earlier. Yeah, thanks for saying that for the question.

Well, I'm going to give a little background. I'm probably the only one here that remembers it being built and and the bulkhead used to be mud flats right up until the motel over here. And um they built the bulkhead, dredged the harbor. I think they started the I don't the bulkhead and dredging started in January of one year and I think it was all done by [clears throat]

um I'm going to almost say May of that same year and the price at the time was $750,000. This was 1956. So there's some good pictures maybe even around here of them building the bulkhead. The the dredging uh went very fast, but the area that got filled in needed tons and tons of additional fill and it was a long time before it was ever used. [clears throat] So here we are. The pier, I'm going to suggest is pretty close to 74 years old. and uh it served the town very well. Best best facility on MDI that I can think of. So, we're looking for you to help us build another one that'll last another 75 years.

Excellent. Well, we are we're excited. We're very happy that this opportunity. I think um our concerns are a timeline. Um we have a very busy summer season. Um for the last few years, our winter season has become almost uh as impactive on the on the pier. Uh but we prefer to do the construction from fall and be ready within 9 months. I don't know if that's possible, but u I' I'd like to hear from you guys.

I I think that that schedule is reasonable. I mean, we felt good about the schedule that you had kind of laid out or that Greg had laid out and um we kind of matched our schedule to that, but we're trying to make it seem very realistic on our our end. So, I think it's definitely doable and some of it's going to depend on, you know, the back and forth of questions and what we're going to use for materials and how much stuff can be. And and I am concerned about permitting. Is that is that going to be an issue? Um, permitting for replacements is a lot easier than than new. That's what I was hoping.

And municipalities are definitely I mean, so you know, part of every permitting project is the need. Well, that's going to be an easy one, right? And your impacts are are not going to be any greater than what's there now. So, um I I wouldn't expect it to be difficult, but there's plenty of you know, you've given us plenty of time. Yeah.

You don't need we don't need to get all the way to construction level documents to submit permit applications. We really just need to know the footprint, number of piles, um, elevation that it's going to be built at, you know, just the things that are going to impact the water. Um, so every nut and bolt doesn't have to be all the way to design. So that gives us plenty of time to get a job on getting permit applications in. We want to know that we're we're pretty accurate because we don't have to go back and change impacts or number of piles or that type of thing. But uh we can we can get permit applications in while we're still working on construction documents. Do you have a time frame or was taken? Yeah.

So right now the D is a little overwhelmed still. Um they have hired a lot of new people but it's taking about five months for them to review and issue permits for major projects. Army Corps will need permits for them also, but they typically are able to fall within that same time frame, if not better. Then the other agency that would be involved would be submerged lands. I'm sure you've got a submerged lands lease. We do.

And u that'll only change if we're changing footprint. [clears throat] And it sounds like there's minimal change that's going to happen to the footprint. So, and they're they're the easiest ones to deal with. Anyway, marine resources.

Yeah. Part of the D application goes to many other state agencies. So, when you submit to the uh D, they then send it to IFNW, Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, Department of Marine Resources. Um, and so they all get a look at it and uh then they comment back to whoever the D project manager is. And if they have any questions then they'll come back back to us. Everything at at D now is switched to online applications. So somebody from your group can be listed and we'll see all the correspondence back and forth. You'll be able to see where it is in the process. Um so you know we can work with you to who who wants to be the one that gets those notifications along with us. Um but you know the DMR and IFNW again we typically you know talk to them ahead of time give them a heads up on what's going on um and you know know what the issues are before we submit the applications. Um I there's one selectman board here. I'm I'm in hope that uh the harbor committee recommendation as it goes to the select men will be basically approved without too much conflict. Rodney

and amazing it wouldn't be how far [laughter] but uh it's quite important uh politically it has to go through the be approved by the select man. Y that's pretty typical. Yep. So, I'm hoping we if we have any questions, we can clarify everything with this group to pass the information on to our board of select.

Yeah, absolutely. You um like when you make a proposal, it's just a design, right? Like like can you change the materials? Could it be the same design only materials are different? Yeah, I mean we can I mean we're we're going to rebuild the pier so it can have you know that's one of the things that we're going to want to talk to you relatively soon about is what works, what doesn't work, are there things that could be different that you want different. Um

we made some assumptions with like everything we included in here for our scope kind of assuming that you're putting it back in a similar footprint and maybe similar materials like a concrete back in steel piles. So, but there could be certainly discussions on those materials and layout. Um, steel pile like like a dry pile.

Yep. And you know, the resiliency was one of the questions that that Greg sent to us. So, that's something we can talk about. I mean, one of the things we look at with resiliency is over times you're going to lose some amount of the steel wall thickness to corrosion. And so, you know, you can anticipate how much that's going to be over time and um add thickness to the to the steel pipe pile. Couldn't you um hook up like a cathotic system like they have on a ship or something? Yes, that's normally done for the steel piles as well. Yep. And I mean, is that so far out of price that people don't do? That's very common for a marine commercial. That would save things a lot, right?

Yeah. So, you typically do a coating, but you also have a product protection system. Ideally, that would be what we would do. And that would have to be maintained. It would. Yes. Like on ship, right? Yeah. All mer pilots are just too expensive for new. Yeah. You know, we're using all pre-cast fiber reinforced, you know, concrete. No, we probably do steel piles that were concrete filled. Yep. Um and and we may do an epoxy bonding and or a cathodic protection system.

Okay. So our our big concern is that it being durable to resist uh calcium chloride because that's what really attacked ours. Not that it's used as much anymore, but at time that's what really took a lot of years off that period start spraying for it. So we'd want to see concrete at least resistant to that above salt. [clears throat]

And then also the loadbearing aspects of it are kind of different that has it's a small space but it's needs to be built at least to what it can handle now or greater. So you have I mean at times you have tractor trailers tied up but you also have the chance at times the vessels being tied and then tied too meaning sometimes the tide will go out and they have the lines too tight that but some be had to come down fire a rack as Rick can attest to it and cut it free before but we also at that time there's a lot of stuff happening people don't pay attention like there'll be a big yacht pulled alongside the fuel and then you have tractors back and forth so it's kind of a lot of dynamic loading that's different than a lot of other peers and the summer it's just so heavily you know, trafficked that it's, you know, a concern and and I think the longevity if it wasn't for the spring that we wouldn't be as far along necessarily in the protest once they got into the concrete and then got into the rebot.

So you guys actually put that on the deck. They used to it's been faded out that was that we had the town had a truck that would go spray they used to spray road they do back out a small tank truck and sprout before a storm and you know what? So that's what my concern is yes it's not practiced today but who's to say in the future that someday that won't something similar will come back into it you know what I mean and there is a lot of stuff spilled on there from you know salt directly from the fisheries. Yeah. I mean our initial thought would be to have a um you know the pile system that Nick mentioned and then pre-cast concrete deck with a topping slab.

Okay. The advantage of the topping slab is that we can crown it so that you get water run off. Um, but it also if that deteriorates, it's easy to and then it protects the the Can you put a seal into that topic as well? Like for salt guard that type of I'd like to reinforce something that Chris brought up. Uh, the the pier now is being used by heavy vehicle traffic that it was never I don't think it was ever intended for. And uh I don't see that we're going to get away from that uh in the future. I think we're going to see more of it.

And part of it too would be able to we're struggling now with space where we could expand the footprint of the side pilings if our decking could go at least over that foot plus on either side the pilings to gain us. We really like to have this point be really nice to have a walkway down the center because in the summer you're p pass your vessels that load up to 60 70 people at once and then they all wander around. And you have tractor trailers and and trucks going on either side to you'll see the hoist to get access. That's where the trucks go over back to the ferry. So if we gain some, you know, a foot on either side, we could have like like a walkway. So in the summer you could have poles that just go down into it with rope or whatever so people don't get off on either side and be directed down through or even just paint it

and then uh paint doesn't they don't I mean I have a backup and they don't move out of the way. They got [laughter] you they always want to look over the edge. Yeah. So if they have and now they like make them wait before they can go down, right? So it's it so it's getting the traffic and that it another problem that doesn't help is that the ramps are offset on the pier down there. Right. Now granted that would affect the lineup out there, but you could shift the float over. You know what I mean? Or do something on that aspect toiate that and clean up the utilities on the end where electrical box and all that is up. Yeah. And also our plan was we're going to maintain power throughout the project. The power have to be run around to that to the main dock because there's going to be a walkway. That was part of our request,

right? Yep. Okay. And another thing is are are do are do are do are do are do are do are do are do are do are do are do you are you picturing like a barge or one crane on it doing this work or are you picturing someone coming in taking up as they work drive the pylons take up drive pie? Sure. I'm not sure we've thought through the logistics of the construction all that much yet. um because it'll hold the weight for equipment to be up there enough to right you know what I mean where you could you could take remove build remove build remove build at least get your piling st back in but right now the the the pia is a seeth through is is does it have to go back that that way can you make it solid like like sheep what do they call a sheep sheep

and and then fill they they really don't want us to restrict the water flow oh Yeah. So, we'd probably recommend putting it back on piles the way it was. No, they they do that. Is that only here or is that a new thing that's coming out with the P? Well, what would Yeah, I mean, they really don't want us to fill Yeah. fill it in the wet. So, right. So, I mean, but making it, you know, like I said, you've got justification, right? That thing is heavily used and u so if you do want to expand a little bit, I don't expect that that would be a problem. Yep. The problem something good to know is

the problem is one way we have room we're tight on either way. So baby dog we're kind of tight on either way but that does work with those piles and you gain I mean the piles are like this you can go over that footprint and it wouldn't change the bottom. Yeah well we can move the pylons to new locations as well. We're not locked into the existing pile. Yeah. I'm just saying width. So once you have like a dinghy dock it's hard to see this time of year. You know what I mean? And then it get angles in as you come in. Large boats approach and go to those hoist on either side. And then you have a male boat a ferry boat. You got to go in around, buy these gifts, and then Oh, I like that. Okay. There's a good aerial photograph, I think, in shows the layout with the we call it the commercial float, how it's laid out. Those floats stay in year round, right? Correct.

Okay. And another thing we'd like to see get cleaned up is our utilities. They're a real mess. And then either I don't know, con something a better way. We have lines run over the side. a water line on here that you bumped into. And and also I'd like to see is something done and we had a main street fire years ago was really bad and we depended on the hydrant down there but then when the tide went out we lost there's a dry hydrant that's part of the pier system that I know it should be something suggested with the the fire chief but now it's kind of a piece that folds down it's kind of in the way tying up as well and but that's something I mean that has been used before did actually sucks salt water.

Yes. Yep. Okay. Fuel drops. So there's a there's a hydrant line that run from there hydrant up here distributes salt water runs down to the pier. But you have to drop a suction line off of the pier with a tank with a pumper and pump the water up to here. You just got a pump out too, right? Yeah. Yep. That's down on the line must come up. Correct. Okay. Right. What's going to be So there's a lot of a lot of What's going to be the best way to make sure we don't miss any of this um meeting with the committee another Yeah. being down there.

Yeah. Walk pictures and make a list and Okay. That's that's that's exactly what we need is that wish list. Um and then like the hoist the position of them either works or doesn't work. You know what I mean? You can't be [laughter] off. That's right. You can't be off like so many, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, does the current location work well? Yes, it does. Okay. It does. And but then also, but we've kind of misaligned on the the sheathing they call it. So, you need a piece coming down so stuff doesn't swing under and go under the pier. And it's not and and it really isn't that great. We don't have really good setup for tieups, you know what I mean? For boats along the side. Okay. But that's kind of it's just around those is the main area. Do

you have ladders now? Yes. Okay. So, you'd want want those Yeah. replaced. They're sketchy. The rungs keep rusting out. We can do that better. Um, and are the hoist going to be reused? And they that was a stamped engineer design. Probably one of those. You did for Troy. I did. I went for Troy. Yeah. [laughter] So I I have a question well more on um how it can be. So one of the concerns or questions is so we have a proposal we got go to the select to finalize

what process andor process that supports the asurances that the engineering um both timeline and budgets can be met. You guys have internal sort of checks on what's being sent where how what's the format that gets communicated back to them. Um, so those checks and balances that that you know, I'm sure again that we're meeting budgetaries and stuff with your team. How does that work? Maybe talk a little about that. Yeah, I think that we're going to learn a lot soon. Um, and should be able to narrow in, make sure we let you know if there's anything that we didn't include. Like you mentioned, electrical, and we haven't carried a number for electrical just because we didn't know what that was going to be, what our responsibility for any electrical upgrades would be. Um, so if there are things like that that you do want us to carry, then we can certainly, you know, adjust accordingly.

Sure. Um but I think our plan is that you know each step of the way once we've got the green light and the select board have given us the the you know go [clears throat] ahead then we're going to start scheduling a lot of the study stuff. So, we'll schedule our survey work um which includes the hydrographic stuff. Um Eric is going to coordinate all the geotech work and um then there'll be a little bit of a pause. You know, this we'll we can work on schematic design and layout and understand all the things that you just mentioned and make sure we've got a good list of everything that we want to make sure we don't miss. Um, and then once we gather that data, which are probably spring, early summer, then we'll then we'll need to be busy again meeting with the committee looking at at the options and going over all of that type of uh information and design options. And we'll develop a schematic plan and meet with you again. And then uh from there, we'll go into design development. And that's where we'll really kind of get into sizing of of you know columns and column layout pile layout decking and uh you know all the different things details [snorts] it'll get to a level in fact we brought set for the um lipin dock that we're working on right now just to show you the level of detail that would be on a design development plan and that's when we proposed to get construction estimate and in our proposal we included Um Ken Canau. Um Ken and I actually went to college together. I've known him for a long long time. He worked for DOT in the bridge engineering department for a while and then a long time for proc marine um uh bidding and managing projects for proc. We brought him on board for pricing so to check our estimates and uh we've used him quite a

bit for that. He's been pretty accurate. So that's why he's the other thing that Ken helps us with is constructibility. You know, when we come up with options or you guys have something you want, we love running by running our details by him because that's what he's done is built these things for for years. So it gives us a good check from somebody that's got a lot of experience actually building um for Prague. But one of I guess to the point we have these um existing conditions being developed um schematic is tracking too um those are all things that happening but as the committee how does um what's the format that both budget and what's happening even before they receive an invoice per se right what's the approach to make sure that um I said the schedule and budgets are there not at the time that they get invoice like oh they've gotten this done so what what are your thoughts around how that meets with and um tracks. That's that's

Yeah. So I one question would be are we going to like is all of our communication to the entire committee [clears throat] or is there points of contact? Regardless, we would [clears throat] typically give you kind of monthly updates of where we're at both on on budget and schedule and what tasks have been completed, what's coming up, if anything has moved from last time we told you schedule-wise. Um, and then, uh, there'll be times where we may even want to be in contact more than that. You know, once we really get into doing design and if we have questions, um, you know, it would be nice to be able to, you know, potentially even have teams meetings or,

you know, where it it won't take long, but we can give you an update and say, "Hey, we've got a list of questions." Um, and it may be that you need to get back to us on some of them. Um, so I think at different stages through the two years because we're talking about from now till this time in 2028 where we're hopefully going to be under construction. I think there'll be differing needs of communication as far as timing. There'll be times where we're going to need to talk a lot and then there'll be there'll be breaks. There'll be pauses. But during the pauses, we can certainly um you know provide monthly updates on both where we're at with our fee budget and where we're at with getting the tax done that we need to get done to stay on schedule.

Now, there was quite an offset in the proposals in the cost and I'm concerned that your cost do you run a percentage mostly that obviously we didn't know you know what your budget is? Uh that was one of our questions kind of for the project. Um, but we've done our best to try to capture, you know, the cost that we thought it would require for this. And I think, um, being local and having some more of the services in house may be some of that difference.

I just I just don't I don't want to see you guys get I don't I want this to work for everyone and get them. I don't want you guys to we put all this time into it and you know what I mean? And we we so we we did a project down here and we ran and we added and they didn't test. There were some things that weren't done right and we went to the voters and got approved for this and there was two separate buildings down there offset from each other. Had a beautiful plan. We sold it. When it was done, we have one visitor center staring at the back of another building because they came in and said, "Well, we can't do this. We can't run utilities to both buildings. We didn't their test for wasn't done." Blah blah blah. And it really threw egg on her face and I'm still embarrassed to this day about it. And you know, and but we just had to be done. This was it. And then it was so work initially wasn't done or they kind of put their hands up says we're out of money, out of time and this is what you got and it wasn't what we told the people we were going to build and it wasn't what we expected. So I

and another thing was the last project we did we went way over time. I mean things dragged on and I think it was Greg what was your definition of it liquidated damages to ask them about? Well, I think the question was how do we assure that? And my response was in a design effort. I've never heard of liquidated damages on a design side of a project. We have uh usability where there's damages when people can't generate fees when things aren't constructed. I've never heard of it in the design world. I think the conversation we had. So I mean just circling back a little bit a little bit of what we discussed we envisioned for this was you know to meet with you more look at the peer have these conversations to really fully detail the scope because this is like our best um proposal based on information we've had but there's certainly more information that we can gather to refine this and make sure we're not missing anything like will said um to get you a better budget number that make sure we're capturing every single thing

I I will suggest gest that this is a top priority with the harbor committee and uh everybody here is a marine operator and uses up here and we know what's going on from a uh operational point of view. So I'm sure we'll work with you. Uh you suggested the front man right now I would suggest it would have to be John the harbor master. And uh we're flexible enough that we don't have to meet on a we [clears throat] could meet more than a monthly basis. Okay. We we meet every month. We meet once once a month every you know

second Tuesday but u I'm sure we'll have to meet more often than that. There'll be many questions. The

back to your initial question. I mean these these projects are always a little bit of a of a challenge to to budget you know and we we know that you know the standard in marine construction is for six to 10% of a design fee of the total construction budget. We don't start there though. We use that we check we start with a spreadsheet and we define all the tasks that we know we're going to need to do or that we think we're going to need to do and then we assign who our staff is going to be and ours and that's how we start. And so that's what we did with this project. We each actually, you know, did our own look at it. Um kind of estimated the what we thought it was going to take. We did our subs that are involved. We got pricing from them and then we we look at that and then see where that falls on what we think the construction budget might be to make sure we're in line and you know we know that we tend to be a little lower than some of the out of state companies. There's not a lot of people doing the marine construction and um uh but you know we we feel feel good about you know what we're doing. We've done a lot of these types of projects recently. Um, we listed a bunch of the examples. We just did burn island down for for DMR actually. Um, and we're working on Idaho and uh, we've done Clifton and Gilpatrick and got another big one down at Harpell that we're working on. So, we feel like we've got a pretty good handle on what it takes us to do this. and uh you know this Erica has has been a geotechnical engineer with Summit for 12 years and uh joined us just recently. Um she was our go-to geotech. So now we have it in the house and we're very excited to have have her there. So that's why she's so involved this project uh and she's going to do the geotech for us. That's that's a key piece of the puzzle for designing the

piles. Um, so and for this project in particular, we think, you know, we can actually drill through the pier. It's in a condition it's strong enough like you drive trucks on it, we can put a drill rig on it and actually get the sampling testing we need from the pier as opposed to bringing a barge which saves a lot of cost. That was one of the things that your pluses I have in your category as we went through was the foresight test scoring and actually doing it at home. It's like other people want to do it like a ways away or didn't and that was a big selling point. Uh another thing was that you said you your time sheets that you completed daily. So you were up to people in the budgeting process. That was another

big sub head obviously is 35 years is another thing. Pre-qualified main dot were all the highlights of what have really kind of made you guys you know shine out from the others. And I just I just really I know I just worried the scale of it. I just hope that I think you do understand it, but I was worried that what you know what I mean between Yeah. Yeah. I just don't it's not in my opinion, you know, you it's going to be a lot more than a barge with a crane on it. You know what I mean? Oh, as far as the construction get to for and our time frame is very tight. But the the that marina pays for all our other harbors, pays for our harbor master, pays for everything

for the whole year. You know what I mean? So it doesn't cost the county even pays for all our construction the nothing comes out of the taxpayer actually we pay back into services of the town. So that being able to operate is a very major component of it. We can't necessarily Yeah. You have like when you begin [clears throat] the project you'll be in charge of tearing everything apart too, right? As far as demolition. Yeah. That'll be part of the plans for the contractor. And are you if you're going to go with pil with steel pil ones out? Can you go down beside them? I would be surprised if the layout doesn't end up with some conflicts and the regul regulators want us to take them out.

Oh, they do. They want to minimize impacts, right? So, a lot of times with the with the old projects, we end up with less piles than the original. Um, especially if we're going from wood to steel. Right. Right. So, so do you you drive right to bedrock or or how do you know how file? Yeah. So, that's part of the scope I'll do with the geotech is we'll see what the soil conditions are. But most likely, yes, the piles would go to bed. With these loading conditions, they'll probably be socketed into bed rockets typically. Yeah. Yeah.

And and then like what Chris was saying, do you do you stop building and and like use what you're building on? You know what I mean? like either go from the shore out and and and travel out on it as you build or or from the ocean in and you know what I mean? We don't necessarily dictate the means and methods that the contractor uses. We'll definitely define schedule timing um work with making sure that our plans include you know a demolition plan explains to them everything that needs to be done as part of that. But how they do it, we usually don't try to dictate because the contractors Yeah. don't like being told anyway.

Actually, Rodney, I think we ought to stay out of that aspect. Yeah. But this isn't big enough to attract someone like Chimber. Is it? Um I don't you know what I'm someone that's kind of got the experience and will come get it done quick and right there. Definitely some goodsized firms that uh we've been working with lately um that I think will be interested in in doing this and we typically try to give them a heads up, let them know it's coming. And like said some of the the could be pre pieces on top of that but Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So So you you bid out the job you don't use the same people all the time. Well, we end up working with the same people quite often just because there's a limited number of marine contractors that are going to be qualified to do this. And you know, as being a town project, they're going to they're going to have to be bonded. Yeah. Um and so, you know, it'll be a smaller pool than say a a commercial building or a house, but um there's a pretty good group that are are doing these types of projects. I'm sure proc will be interested. um Bankraftoft who's who we're working with on another big project I know will be interested um um CPM uh down in Freeport they

is a good outfit but they're small that bring that bar yeah somebody way to go around doing it like going on the other end of the spectrum pinbro is real big but they have equipment that they could come in and mow that thing but it's honestly it's not that large of a structure you don't have that many piles. Is that potential? Yeah, I want the queen project. [laughter] I'm going to ask the committee if they have any other questions. Um the uh

go ahead. Is it part of yours? Um presuming I have not seen the report. We're gonna ra We're raising it up as part of your design to That's one of our question.

Yeah. How how we transition up the shore side. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, part of part of our proposal is we we've teamed up with ATM, who's a marine u science group, that will help us with the loading and the wave study and um kind of refine the options for elevation. Um talk to us about the predictions for sea level. And then we're going to need to have a conversation with with your group. You know, how much do we want to elevate it? How far ahead do we want to look? What's the impact of the parking lot? the transition, how's that going to work? But yes, that is part of our scope and we're our our aselt survey will, you know, locate everything that's there structure-wise on the dock. Um, but we're going to do a a chunk of the parking lot, too, so that we have that information and can, you know, look at options of how to transition everything. And then we'll we'll get water depths, you know, so that we know.

Stan did a quick analysis and said 60 in of to raise. Oh, above 60 in. Really? That's a lot. Yeah, it's right in their proposal. They didn't detail while they came about the figure that So, not as bad as seven feet out. Yeah. So, they're I mean that's basically coming from the state who's saying that in the next 75 years, you can expect up to 5t of sea level rise. So, right now where the you know the GI assessment basically says the pier top of the pier is just a couple inches above flood elevation. So it flooded completely three feet over of the on the on the 100year storm ran. It was a king tide 100 years store but it was washed out all over the park and all that but

to the harbor master's office as well. Yeah really accurate sometimes it's not so good to get feedback on like what you've actually seen need we were when we first discussed we talked three to four feet. Okay. So, so we we also want to look at the gang ways, you know, what's that do to the steepness of the gang ways? What's the length of those that are there now? 40 to 45 ft. So, you're going to need to probably make those longer. We went from now, right? We went from 40 to and 45 to 60 on the two that we just redid. So, Oh, that was six.

We were limited on uh ADA by structures not being able to be moved. So, we cut as long as we could. Okay. One other thing I just to be sure you're aware of our timeline by midFebruary I need a solid number and for a warrant article and this will go to town meeting and won't be approved to spend any money at all until May 5th. So 5th May 5th is our annual town meeting and that's where the money that's going to pay for your services is going to come from and it needs to be approved by the town's people. It'll be an article in that town Lauren. Yeah, understood. Okay.

I have till mid to late February to get the written final warrant article to the town clerk. So, okay. Um, we have some utility work. We can work through what may need to be in there for that. And then also, um, cathotic protection. Um, I don't know if that's induced or passive what you were thinking, but I think that's kind of I don't want to say an industry standard, but I think it adds a lot of life to the product. Yeah. Um, and I don't know if those two are in there now. If they're not, then

probably need to work towards what that warrant would look like. And we might need some feedback from um Barley Dorski before that's written. We we want it to be approved. So, anything you can do to make it uh you know understandable by the voters I think that's but we did one of my concerns. We were adding stuff that in wasn't necessarily in the RFP. I understand but the the voters are most will be mostly concerned about costs and the money that we have to raise. That's what you're saying is you need a hard number from us. I will by mid to late February.

So any more questions that we have, we need to work back and forth with you between now and midFebruary. Okay. If you could have some kind of an explanation for people that aren't on the water all the time to understand why they're spending the money. I don't know if you have it. You know what I mean? That's up to us. That's that's up to committee for your adults. selling points too was that you you mentioned here that you would reach out to uh challenges meet with challenge staff users facility and and abuing users.

So and we can do that through our meeting but that was a nice selling point your guys services that you will there'll be other people affected that we might not see or know about that we got to in the community neighboring businesses other concerns we want to make sure that they have they get heard. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. We did u we redid the float layout for the city of Belfast a bunch of years ago. They that harbor's tight and uh I said the same thing. I said we need to have a stakeholders meeting because there's a lot of people in that harbor that use it. They were tugboat captains and there were the fishermanmen and there was Front Street shipyard and those those were interesting meetings

rightwayish boo. Yeah. Yeah. But we ended up coming up with a you know a good float system and uh we increased the number of votes that they were able to keep in the same area. So it it worked out well but the stakeholders meetings are important because you know people bring up things that they may not have said and I'm hoping you guys will see something the usage of it in a different set of eyes too that maybe point out stuff that we could be doing better or small you might see while you're working through it where hey we could do this and it makes it better for everyone etc. We don't we're not stuck in this one has to be this certain thing. You know what I mean?

And we'll want to schedule those as soon as we you know been given authority to start because that's that's the information that's going to be needed before we start doing schematic design work. Well, as far as we're concerned, we're giving you the authority to prep up for our political aspect of it. Town meeting. Yeah. Raising the funds. But we we have the funds. Correct. This is coming over CIP. We're not borrowing for this. We've been stocking money away for a long time to cover the cost of this part. We're going to be bonding of majority of the construction, but we're we're giving you the go-ahead

to come back to us with finalized proposals. We're not seeking other engineering. And how soon do you want to go down? Did you want to go with the committee down and look has to approve it too first? How soon do you want to do it if you do it? [clears throat] Yeah, I think we should. Yeah, probably um early January. Yeah, right after that. We took a quick peek here before we came to the meeting, but it'll be I was surprised I didn't see you down there earlier today when it was still light out. Yeah, I know. January meeting like we did on other like the our next scheduled meeting is the second Tuesday of January. But

we go down like 4 or something half hour before meeting and then it's not taking away from a meeting time meet with them. We'll be flexible to meet when you can and coordinate it through John. Okay. The master. So, what what does our motion need to be to accept them to come back with numbers or how do you want to um I think we need a motion to accept Gartly and Dorski as the preparer and engineering for this new pier construction. We didn't already do that.

Well, I thought we did, but Chris, not officially. Not officially. That's my motion. Well, let's second that motion. Okay. Any other discussion? I had a couple of points I wanted to bring up when Jim Well, I wish you'd brought it up, but go ahead. I am. Go for it. Thanks. So, um, in your proposal, you talked about the communications and you said it would be every three weeks with a contact with us. So, that's what you were describing when you said we'd be in touch every month. Yeah, it's the same idea. Yeah, if it's requested, right? Yeah. No, that's correct.

Do every three weeks by default we would do like every month or so.

Fine. Yeah. Yeah. I was just trying to get a sense as to we were talking you what you said was the same thing as any that's um and then I think for contact, you know, we can figure it out, but it's going to be John, you know, that's my guess. So, um, he's sort of the the go between us and and whomever else is out there. Uh, then the other thing I thought was I understand that you guys don't want to put a lot of energy into this, you know, into the work until after you get the approval from the town's people in May. And that's going to put us a little behind because you were already talking about we want to get started as quickly as possible. So, I appreciate all of that. So, in light of that, if there's like just a list of things you could relay to Greg maybe and you know, and Greg could work with us on whatever it is you need and so that way when May comes around and we get the vote, we can like hit the ground running rather than having that meeting with you and starting all of that process.

And I think and we'll talk internally, too, but I think we'll we'll try to get stuff scheduled. Scheduling is really the big thing. All right. You know, scheduling the survey and that geotechnical investigation for soon after the approval just to make sure our investigative process is started. Yeah. And if you can tell us you've got pretty good confidence that this is going to go through, then we'll go ahead and [clears throat] and schedule things. All right. As long as it's not an ice rink, we should be all right. Um, yeah, we're not borrowing or spending tax dollars. This is money that belongs. We just needs the town's approval to access it because it is an undesated fund. Can approve that?

They cannot. We do have funds available if we needed to get some things done ahead of time, right? Some engineering work like we did for Greg. Very limited. I think we're obligated to adhere to the vote at town meeting. Yeah. So, uh, if we approve the motion that's on the floor and work on that schedule to the best we can, that's that's the best we can do right now. And just to let you guys know, we usually take the summer off. So, there's two months we don't meet in the summer. Well, I'll if we have to meet, we'll we'll call them special meeting.

Okay, great. The chairman has been born. All right. And then the other thing is um you know in all sincerity and and Chris has has said this and others have echoed it that like the schedules are really really tight for us you know and we really got in a jam a couple years ago with h replacing that ramp and it was like down to the wire and it it was really hectic for us and it and it didn't feel comfortable at all at the very end and you know it was whatever there were reasons why. All right. Um, and so for you guys, like we've got to have like the numbers in by a certain date so that we can bring this to the voters, you know, the big thing. So that like if we miss that date, like we have to wait a whole another year.

So, so it really is a hard date for us and and there is no slippage in that per set. All right. Um, so whatever that means to you guys, that's what it means to us. Um and then just as as sincerely the uh the fact that our season starts and it really does mean that we have to be ready to go for everyone, you know, when the construction happens and and when that happens. Those are I mean it's not a hard number, you know, in terms of like June 1st, you know, the world's going to stop. The world will stop on the the date of the the town meeting, but here it's not that hard of a stop. But it really does matter. Yeah.

Well, and the good thing about the schedule that we have is that I mean we will rely on Ken uh Canour a little bit for along with the constructibility the schedule like can this stuff happen but we can also reach out to a couple of the contractors that we want to make sure bid on this and when we get to a DD level set of plans and we're doing our first construction estimate we could send it to a couple depending on your funding. The only time we can't do that is sometimes there's grants that have restrictions about contacting contractors ahead of time. But if if we don't have that restriction, I love sending the plans to them saying, "Hey, this is coming. Here's the schedule. This is when we're hoping to happen have it happen. Do you see any issues?" That's the best way to know that it's constructable in the time frame that you need to.

What about perform performance bonuses? Yeah. I mean, those are those are those are good, but I' I'd rather just know that it can happen. No, I know. I mean, incentivized or hefty, you know, whatever penalty penalties, whatever. The tough thing about penalties is that sometimes they just say, "Okay, I know I'm going to need extra time. I'm going to add it to the price." No, I understand. That's why my first thing with performance bonus versus Right. Yeah. I'd rather see some incentivized rather than a penalty because I I know that from talking to the contractors that they say the schedule's unreasonable. I'll bid it, but I'm going to just take whatever your liquidated damage is in add 30 days worth.

But you're going to by pre-alking to them, right? And then if we find out that everybody says we can't do it, then we've got some strategy to figure out, right? What what do we change to make it doable or or how do we do the temporary longer or if your preferred person can't do it, you go to the you roll to the next? Yep. We do have the launch. But but if if they all if if all of them come back and say, "Look, we can't do it in in this time you want." Is there is there a way that you can do like half of it and go through the season and then do the other half?

Right. I mean, I think that's that's going to be what we'll need to to figure out. We want to know those if those those are issues early on which is why I'm trying to figure out this is like kind of a universal problem and we've seen this with other projects where they all need the work done in the winter and you know no interference in the summer. So

yeah, it's almost always end of October to uh to May and that's that's the schedule. Well, those are issues we can't solve right now, but uh I'd [clears throat] like to uh call a vote on the motion and uh move forward from there. Okay. All in favor, raise your hand. I oppose. Carried. Our next scheduled meeting is January 13. We have other items on the agenda. I don't know what the agenda looks like or

me either yet because I haven't made it up. [laughter] But uh there'll be minor stuff on there. We have some ordinance stuff that we're talking about, but you know, this is obviously top priority for anything. We can bring it to the selectman now though, right? Like there's nothing to bring to the selectman. I think I think uh with Rodney here that you'll do us a favor of giving a heads up to the board of select men that this is this is what we're in the seriousness of scheduling. and uh get them on board. What we're bringing to them would be our warrant article that they will approve for it to go to town meeting.

Leading [clears throat] up to the the January meeting, what we would do is just make sure um what's being proposed is complete. We can discuss what those are so you guys then can have John write the warrant. I believe that's what's next and I'm just saying that for clarity for everybody here. So on a a next on a next um select meeting, do you you want me to just give them a heads up that this war on is coming? Absolutely. Sure. And they're you're going to get, you know, our minutes from these meetings, too. Yes.

So you're But I I generally I'm going to say this right now, the board of select men doesn't really care about what the harbor committee does until they disagree. So, we've only had one case of that in since I've been here and it was kind of embarrassing actually. So, Rodney, you you're in charge right now to make sure select men understand that the harbor committee is on top of this and we want your approval.

So, so I think I understand what I was thinking about when we opened up those bids. We need we needed to after we opened them then what was the next step? This is the next step. We just made our decision on which company we wanted to pick. We rated them and then said we want to talk to them. We could have asked to talk to No, hold on. Yeah. And then the next step after that is to notify the har I mean the select board that we've chosen this person. We just said that

they're really, you know, they're going to read it in our minutes and stuff, but the really the next solid thing that will go to the select one will be them approving the warrant article to go to town meeting and they're going to come back with finalized right numbers. Yeah, right. We need a solid number and

we'll definitely work with you to schedule it time. Maybe 13th, we'll look at at what our schedules are. Um, and at least probably Nick and Erica will come back up and meet with you guys and make sure that we're understanding everything that we need to understand. We'll update our numbers accordingly and then get you a solid proposal that you take to the war. So that's our that's our plan. Yes. There probably a lot of coordination between now and that midFebruary date with with the committee to yeah make sure we or Greg just to relay questions and right

so so have you already um we already decided a walk around date when when you decide to do that in January I think we want to just check our schedule and uh weather be good to check yeah be a little flexible with that yeah that's look at the times but you want to look on both tides or low tide would be better. Yeah. Okay. Very good. Warm sunny day. Yes. [laughter] Motion. Ask for mo. I'm going to ask for a motion to adjurnn. Second. Move and second. All in favor raise your hand. Opposed. Carried. Thank you very much.

Thank you everyone. I think this would you just when we add things to we say well the things that we add in that separate