Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

Morting in progress. Call the meeting to order. First item we'll deal with is the minutes from May 13th. I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes of last meeting. Second and moved and seconded to approve those meetings. All in favor? [Music] for carries. So, Greg's not here about five minutes, right? So, anything only thing on our agenda, but if anyone has anything else, I have a question. So, I see the dumpster moved. Is there a reason for that? There was a uh ankhole near where the dumpster was and the public works department had a camera run through with the pipes and they found a a hole in a 50 plus year old pipe. The drains pretty much everything from Main Street down to sea street runs straight through the middle of that parking lot. They found a hole and it's leeching material sinking phases on how to be dug up. Not necessarily there. I don't know if any of you ever seen any of the videos where they can run this thing within a few seconds it hardens just like heavy plastic and it can completely seal like that. That's the options. The other

option we're looking at is to physically sleeve it with BBC. It's probably 15 or so feet deep down. So, wow. Last resort they want to do is dig because if they dig, it's going to be an expensive end. I think they're leaning more towards the sle and once they sleeve it and plug off that leak, they will fix the area. I mean, we're only talking this headed off before it gets worse. Dumpster is over in the other parking lot. That was the best spot that I could come up with it. stay in that spot until get that fixed because they were worried that they backed the garbage truck in the garbage truck broke through when we make a mess to damage the truck. So, all those people on town are going to be confused. We have socks over there and I'm trying to get them to make some more permanent metal signs that point people in the right direction, but it hasn't looked as bad over there that did on the other side. No, could have been overflowing when I've been knowing. Chris, do you have something to add? I just put this stuff under general issues. I have two things. Uh, one, uh, this year the dogs were put in later in Sou Harbor and before we voted and talked about having at least a dog in by mans for the scance of that and it's been brought out by multiple people that we didn't do that this year. I think we were only we were very far out and it

really was contracting weather that prevented it from contractor had a sickness run through their crew and that was really the the main reason why it didn't make the May 1st. But yes, we always have the option to roll and throw that ramp on that dingy dot to create access and days notice that you have to. Okay. And I was, you know, leaning towards doing that when when they told me that they would have it done and set up when they did. So So that's still our our goal is May 1. Generally, we beat May first if the weather permits. Sometimes we have a need in, you know, late April. sometimes that I mean early April sorry yeah early April mid I think we've even had March but in some weather determining so should is there another goal should we shoot for like April 15th or another goal we should I mean it's it's so weather permitting we do it as soon as possible in the springtime as we can like I said if the weather is broke and it's going to stay broke we can do it in late March if it it's doable. And the other thing was the the bearing at the bottom of the dock. Can we replace the bearing? We got new bearings. Um you know, we'll reorder them and replace them every year. So that'll be replaced this year. Yes, we replace them every year. I don't think that is hard. No, it's weather depending, you know, if we put them in too early and get a horrible storm, it might bite us. Yeah, but that insight at least at least Oh, not say the main do at least all they're asking for is a dingy dog and Sam brought up years ago. That's why

we left the dinghy dock down, pulled the ramp up so the ramp could be lowered storm came and pulled the ramp back up. I mean, that's they don't ask for much. That's one of the things that they ask and we started watching them. They do that. I just want to make sure we're not, you know, stop doing that. It isn't expensive ever. Last year only one of those bearings got nothing replaced. Yeah. The other one didn't need replacement. We don't replace it if it doesn't need it. The problem is the whole thing is sliding. You and I talked about that before. And it should be lined up and and ramp is sliding down. No, no, no. The the roller is sliding off one side. So you got one end of the roller halfway through the bearing and and the other end sticking out. It physically won't come out through with the You can't get that roller out from underneath there unless you pull a bearing. That's right. But what's happening is the roller is gnaring on that aluminum and it's saring it back and forth and eventually it will wear and it's going to I've had that roller rebuilt a few times and it lasts five or six years and it needs to Well, the roller the roller is steel. That's not the problem. When it goes through the aluminum ramp, that's when you're going to have problems. The interior rod that runs through that roller. Yeah. that has to be replaced every they those bearings they should have each one should have two set screws on that you could if you tighten them down in good shape they had whatever they have set screws when we crank them down and and within a day or two they don't they don't hold because of the thrashing that thing takes back and forth it's funny they damn they should I just got a message that zooms not letting someone in it says wait oh sorry wasn't paying attention

Sorry. Pay attention one thing at a time. But yes, I I have new bearings and and we'll get them installed for the roller both ends. Okay. Replace the ones that need. It's a quick process. Only takes 15 or 20 minutes. Okay. Okay. So, are we ready to move on? Greg is still with us. Hard to do. So, where are we at? I think they're looking for an overview from you on how the process is going to work towards getting us a large engineering firm because that's what your goal is for what we're asking you to do. So, I think the um source of process is generally engage in a workshop of what we're looking for and make your qualifications based criteria of selection um and put together an RFP and um those those are statements of prior projects um team members um decide whether it's Ka New England newspaper select bid and then work through um you know compile all the existing information including the earlier reports um and give them as much information as possible of the existing emissions and your your program. Um part of that being um

anything that changes on the dock, you know, going to rebuild the war, what things need better or should be considered. Some of those bigger, not to the minute detail, those things might affect on how um who you select and and what you want to do. I also think that engagement in what you do for rising tides and and writing proposals that selects them. Um and then we put it out however it is in the advertisements and then um this interview processes and you guys grade them and then there's a selection process. Um typically um as I said would be more of a qualifications based selection with some indications of costs and and then a grading criteria. So we would help work you guys to form that document that could be put out that you think fits uh your goals and what you in the town want to accomplish and then uh assist through selecting them and um maybe it's generating questions, maybe it's a closed door review afterwards. Um that's basically um how we presented that we would assist if you guys were so interested. So, one of Rick's things was is getting an update. I know it's like where we stand or what we need and we go on our break now. Just like, hey, I'm doing this or nothing's happened. If you could just an email to John or Rick just to like update where we're at. Um, you know, so you don't you don't have to come in every meeting, but you know what I mean? Just where you're Sure. So, thinking back and this is just where I think I'm at. Um, understood you guys were interested in advancedness. We put a proposal together to advance that and um hadn't heard back. So we hadn't advanced it yet, right? So that's what I know at this point which is fine. You guys have your

um you know sort of timet that needs to be worked with and so whatever if we're engaged to move ahead. Yeah. So what are the steps? First thing would be then um whether you're in break or not is make sure we develop the program what people are going to receive so we know what the goals are and that's a collective effort with the group after we're engaged to start to help them streamline. So we were presented with the it's been RFP correct like from you that that quote we we were that do we need to make a motion to say no we've already done that and my intention was I would have that signed and back to Greg so he could start after July 1. Um, so where where is our hold up our money? July one, that's going our budgets played out for the sign. So July one RFP will be signed. Well, get it before that will start at July 1 once we have a new budget to work with. through July 1 RFP can be fund. What uh tonnage do uh we build up to? Um, so there's probably a couple of standards. Um, we know like Bernard Wolf that we've done in the past, they have particular needs and so parts that were for were designed for certain trucks. Um, the the bigger sort of um loadings you find are the emergency vehicles of a fire truck have to get out there. It's like an H just 20-44 rating, which is pretty much the highest thing you can get on there. Um, you know, is there a

travel list going with going out there? So, I think some of that could be there are standards to apply to it and if you have a specific standard that could be um in there as well. I think that would be um I don't know we need to specify now. might we may get the pros and cons of not pay as you go but the options through the design process of what they mean to you and your um you know the cost completed but the heavily loaded fire truck with water goes over most of the bridges that's pretty significant what we have now must be it's pretty yeah I mean it's probably way beyond that and what I'm seeing on the the peers and the bases down there, of course. Um, do we we have a dry hydrant down there? So, but and then we have a hydrant that's kind of by the grass just past the the flag pole. So, you pump the dry hydrant and then there's a line that runs up to Main Street and that's used during Main Street Fire. So actually the hydro in this design needs to be moved out farther because when the tide went down too far it wasn't accessible stopped using it. Water company wouldn't get the the water. So that's something we have to incorporate this is that dry hydro because as we've already seen because of that fire you know the fire trucks come down to the dock and fill up their tank. So the the the pump goes down to the dock backs up hooks to a dry hydrant. There's a fixed line, a fixed connection that comes from that dog up to Main Street to a hydra. And that was many years ago. There's a movie theater. No, but it burned and that and that was like the development because that there was a main street fire long before the last one and that was incorporated into design because of that and and the last

time we used it the last main street fire we actually the tide went out and we stopped having usage of it ran out of water for a while and the fire kind of got away from us like one of the uh things too also between the whatever firm you choose is going to need a sub consultant who's or they may have more. It's going to be geotechnical. They're going to have to get borings uh in and around maybe through the surface and um that's the timing to do that lab results recommendations and stuff before you can get design that ends up taking some time because there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen and equipment that's necessary to do that um type of work. I'm not saying that pressure. I'm saying like there there's a lot of um I say um not specialties but team players of that one team you choose that have substantial events leading up to a design. So they would have to bore right through the main deck. um they may I mean they develop what they need to and if you can again you can drill down through and get as much information you can on the interior it's wise to minimize surprises later. Yeah. Yeah. Assuming that they would pass it all. Yeah. like just with G's uh the difference between finding I mean there is looks like there is ledge in places there where there isn't they there's probably be different design elements in their tool belts to help support it they'll have to not just drill to ledge but they will pull samples of the ledge to get a rock quality index and they also pull samples of soils and send off to lab to get compressor strength shear strengths and stuff so the engineers just know what they can rely upon

would there be a record of what they built. [Music] There may be something up in Kyle's files somewhere, but we physically don't have anything down at the marina. Yeah. But we have is the survey that was done a handful of years ago by HR5 rei or GI GI and was done by Schmidt at one time that finished 20 years ago. Yep. um had a similar um work with Bar Harbor in their ferry terminal few years ago. They were like what are we going to do? We need evaluation that's outside of what our office can handle. We help them find a proposal and that worked pretty well. I don't think they ever funded the project but um and depending on um we can we choose how it is and they have regular updates and how they are going to interact with your um team as well. We can specify that like regular updates in writing which is good because they have to think about it put in writing what they've done the last and try to time it before their billing cycles but every 3 weeks or two weeks for this basically we're on hold until July 1st which is not far away I know but we go on break. So after you hand the money over, that's done. Can we just get like a I know we'll be on break just like what's going on like an email to John to pass on that one thing Rick said just keep we want to keep the constant communication you know so things don't

jump ahead and yeah and I don't know that um that yes that made sense to me um it it may be that if you're on that break and we say hey here's a template that we generally we're going to get feedback on how it you know we don't want to work in a in a box we want to make sure everybody the committee has acted in it but right off the bat we say here's some template here's some ideas and here's how some RFQ's have worked in the past RP uh this is well does it give you trust for proposal request for qualifications is more like it so what's the RFP that's money RFQ request for proposal okay RFQ is more like qualifications okay and that may be the first step is this understanding the difference qualifications based selection and and so I can pull that together give an example you guys can digest it if you decide that's July when's your next meeting September September I think we get to give you plenty of time to get something together to bring back sure yep I think disseminating information that can allow you guys to um be thinking forward to that first meeting so we have a good workshop to say yeah how far out of line are we with sort of the framework for how we want to uh present it and and also time frame like the hopes is to have a warrant article for next town meeting. So we need to have selected a vendor get a warrant article written by mid end to late February. That's just for design engineering correct. That's just to hire the engineer engineering. Yep. Goes fast. And where do we stand on what's your communication with the people that did the survey? Where do you stand on that one? Zero.

No. No communication uh since that mean that um that was GDI. Yes. So I've worked with them in the past. I have no communication of the their study in this. They put out a wonderful product and and they would be up in our top of our selections of weed responsibly. They already gave us quotes and they're a few years old on where we'd end up, but the original quote was a 1.5, but I figured two plus. So, we Nobody's going to like this, but should we have a meeting this summer or are we going to be behind the ball if we I don't need to be behind the ball. I think that if we get some information as then is even I don't know how they operate but if there is feedback on that that leads up to the meeting we can be productive with just comments leading up to there I think is um yes as they said this meeting could be an email and I think we could email back and forth if you've all I know we've all discussed before that we can do a lot there's going to be a ramp down in the parking lot and we need to expand the footprint meaning that we have the footprint of the pilings, but it needs to expand over that and we need to go up at least 3 ft. And so what what what we're trying to accomplish is that when you have the the wood there, you can't walk by. You have the pilings there. So we're not we go over the piling footprint. So your your base piles, your supports, we're going to go the edges on the side of the ports and then make possibly have a walkway, pedestrian walkway in the middle is our

ultimate goal with the utilities run underneath and then being 3 ft higher because I mean we 100year storm we understand ramp down that's up to public works the rest of it that was our you know that's our initial objectives is 3 feet a given or is there any that was the thing we observed we at the flooding at the time I And I mean that's kind of an engineering thing, but that would also be on top of where we exist today. So we have piles there. So be about 6 to 8 in above our existing kind of footprint. So where those tall, you know, the edge pilings are to be on top of that. And then have our edge on the sides of those. So we're not like expanding past our like footprint on the on the o, you know, on the ocean base, the seapport base. 3 ft is the standard that people have been coming in the planning board for raise their dogs in anticipation of it. Unless the fleet another 100 field were on there. The fleet praises theirs 3 ft numerous songs 3 ft. We're not looking at building on to or reinforcing the dock is there. What we're looking at is removing 100% inflation. 100%. Okay. The fixing what was there was almost a million dollars and they said 15 or 20 years we'd get added to so for less than for double the price we get a brand new one that may take us out another 75 to 100 years. Amazing lot of person but Never know

phrasing. Well, thank you, Greg. Expectations crazy about getting down more. No, I think um like more in February, we can pencil that out. Have uh proposals back mid December, go out, give them two months, probably want to be out looking for it by end of October, I'd say. So, I think that's realistic. I mean, I think that to get good response, you need that sort of time built in. Um, but I don't think you're behind the ball. Long as we do our work. Yeah. Well, it's more Greg's work and we just answer some questions for Greg. Um, probably in there, you know, built into that is that you'll, you know, five respondents, you probably want to maybe have a Q&A with two of them. So we want to schedule we could do that in a day if we rank then that gives us time to deal with the warrant. We can also extra meetings. Yeah, sure. We did that with some other things in the past, but we'll have two meetings scheduled within that time frame and if we had to add a third or even a fourth it would, you know, it wouldn't be extensive meetings. So no, I guess we're excited. But we may have to step up and do a little extra work. It's not the first time done it before. Yeah. It's important because it's probably the most important thing that I'll have done in know 20 plus years that I'll be down there. Yeah.

And it will go through multiple generations on us. So, you replace those uh short pilings with that big storm where the docks went above the pilings. I've replaced some of them and I've extended the others and they they've done well. None of us ever see a storm like that. But the big scheme that we uh really had no damage a little bit of grow washed away from the shoreline. It's really the only physical damage my boat up in S Harbor now and there's somebody's dock shore that's on the shore right at the harbor entrance. But every other dog in the harbor either got lifted and destroyed or we're very lucky in that point and hog us the whole thing. Any further questions for Greg? Thank you for coming in this evening. Sure. Thank you, Greg. Yeah, thanks. and I'll uh bring us alone John and show that with some general knowledge and we'll help you guys start soon on it and um if we need to meet or need to communicate by email thank you guys for the ask do we have any spect messages from the select board. No, no, I haven't been in deep.

Rodney's here as a civilian. Yeah, those are saying you're on that point. Well, I I just have questions. When you get down, I wouldn't get I don't think we have anything else. This is it. This a lot of this really Hey, that first A lot of this isn't how committee because it's up in the parking lot, but I wonder about the know anything about the toilets going over house. Yeah, we had a conversation about that before you came in. Uh I actually talked with the highway superintendent today and everything is is just waiting on the contractor. Uh that's Brian Hankle's project there. He's there. Everything's approved. I I just don't know what the time frame like he didn't have an answer for me. So, and so that's the same with that big rock that's still taking up I mean they they set the pole but the rock now just needs to be they need to concrete or do whatever they're going to do around the pole because that's part of what they've been paid to do. Yeah. Once they're done that rock needs to go in front of that pole. Oh, yeah. person saying we will allow you to do this but has to be concreted in and it has to have rock in front. Yeah, that's right. So that would still be there from coming out over the hill and slipping and sliding and snapping it up. Yeah. Um have you heard anything else about um the the alter like on the pier? We've discussed it but u nothing has moved forward because we want to do the pier too. Yeah. So um because that that really should because well I said last time but that co is not co the drain that settled all we discussed it because of the sinkhole we have going on down here. You know I brought up the sink holes that are popping up over there and

they say they're they're looking at them but I don't know exactly what they've done about them cuz the ultrasound may appear. So that's us not not the here. However, Rodney thinks that the whole parking lot needs to be done, but can we make a motion to do we have the funding with the availability to do an ultrasound here? It would have to come out of CIP money and depending we we have the money. Uh I would just have to with the selectman to approve it. Our portion of it, the parking lot essentially would be public works. the the the pier is is more concerning than anything else because there's you you've got poles in the top, you know, where where I mean things are leaving. I mentioned before, we've got a sand beach on both north and south of the pier. Well, I mean the whole harbor is sand. Yeah, they're not from the harbor. That was never there until they filled the pier with sand. You know, if we're going to do the pier, the the parking lot, it's cost prohibitive to do them both at the same time. Yeah. And that just, you know, between me and Brian, you've got to figure out how and when. And Right. Right. I know you discussed this with him, too. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Ju just briefly, I'll I'll contact him again because he he tells me the same thing. He's talked to you, you talked to him, but we talked to us. Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to ultrasound with Gio Harbor. I speak I speak against that cuz if we're going to do the parking lot, let's do it all one spend. Well, see if he talks to them about that. I'm just saying we make by this motion for it then maybe they'll do theirs at the same time. I'll second it just for the bon. Any discussion on this motion?

When's the last time it was looked at? 1895. Never. Never. When they find when when they built it, they they didn't I mean it fell down before it was done and they So, it's actually 50 feet shorter than it was supposed to be. It was a big fight and uh they they actually filled it with sand that which who knows why they'll do that but rather than the big bony stuff, you know. So they ended up putting piles around it which hadn't that wasn't going to be how it was. But they did that so it wouldn't fall in even more. Sure. Okay. I think that's it. I I just uh motion second on the floor. Okay. We have any more discussion? Do you think it needs to be ultra solid or I mean there's obviously something going on there. It it probably safe bet to to look before one day we something happens. You know, it's uh we are over there all the time. You've got to see the holes in the page. Yeah. Yeah. No, I see them. I'm just wanting to know what John's opinion was. So, I agree. You know that it is concerning, but I didn't know if it was, you know, a surface thing or a, you know, a structural thing. Any discussion? Yep. Okay, let's move the motion. All those in favor? I is that it? Uh, sorry. Yeah. So, I know that 10 or

15 years ago, we voted to change the system for deciding who uses the commercially peers to lottery. And I just want to make a suggestion that we think about that and I'm sure it's pain to change, but as Greg even said, you could add a request for qualification. And I wonder with we have an opening coming up and maybe it's better to have the have people who want that space chosen by qualification and not just by chance. Well, I think the the thought is that we're going to put out the request with a list of requirements. Everybody that fulfills all of those requirements, those that group is going to get put into a lottery and one of them will be drawn. You guys get I mean there may be 10. You may say that only five of them actually fit all of the qualifications, but what do you do when you've got five that are all equally provided everything you asked for? the only way to that's why the lottery is there because it takes out anything that says that any of you are biased. But even with that lottery, we found people found workarounds. So what happened last time? What was the they found we had one person that did multiple right things? Would that happen this time, John? Could that happen this time? If you guys say that only one per person, I would say that you would stop that multiple or or or we could say uh someone who already has a permit can't apply again. So that would be qualification. Yeah. So and I

something I thought about how many people are allowed to have so many permits, but this would be another thing that's got to go to a war ordinance change. So one one entity one person can't own all the commercial oper two or three or what whatever we determine the town determines through what needs to be. So we had say so what we did was we took away the ownership rights but by doing that it has to be a fair playing field. So there's a set thing that anyone can apply and anyone has a fair chance to change that we have to go to an ordinance for those requirements saying okay you all you you don't own you currently have three commercial leases you can't have four sure we did we redid the buyer firm you know what I mean yeah know I understand what you're saying uh okay so at some point though there's going to be qualif qualifications that we're asking of these people that story wants, you know, and so are you saying all of those qualifications then need to be put in the ordinance because there could be multi, you know, it could be that, you know, we want you to have so much insurance or we want you to or we want you to be local and not, you know, not from away or whatever it might be that that story has in mind, you know. Well, I don't All of the standards are already there, but they're more like insurance or insurance. So, why else are you concerned? Well, I just think maybe someone, you know, there might be a service that someone has for the islands or for the town which is much more needed. Let's say I think in the past the only particular

one that we've talked about that has always got to stay what it is is the ferry service. They're going to be at a deficit for water taxes this year because of John Dwelly not running and could should could we specify water taxes? Well, we right now you're specifying that it has to be a six-pack. It is that is it has to be a six pack because that's what was given up and it's drop off pickup only. There's no scheduled service for that slot. So I mean that's pretty they can ultimately they could do anything they want to do with six people. Sure. They could do water taxi. They could have six people fishing. They can do right whatever as long as they're only drop off pickup and six people there. They could do like the they could propose any of that sunset tours or whatever. And John Dwelly did that stuff, too. He took people out. It wasn't always water taxi. He would take people up the sound, do custom cruises. Um any of that's on the table for this six-pack position. Is that the kind of service what you think other services or I just thought the lottery is has its own set of problems. It does, but it takes the any chance of any of us being biased towards any particular person. And everyone that fits the bill for everything you guys have asked for goes in a hat. and we have somebody that's not involved draw out of the hat. And the only problem with that is it seems like it could end up leaving somebody like a a young local guy that want to get going that lives right here. He'd get knocked off by somebody from

Southwest. It's always possibility. I I mean unless we had in the ordinance that we want to you know we prefer like we prefer a local over fortunate part of that is if you want to do that then run the spot empty for two years. No I understand I I get that. So this I'm just saying that may be a great thing to put on your agenda for next year's meeting to change the ordinance, but we we did uh we we've done that already twice for the moorings for buyers, right? So we did a percentage. So the same could certainly apply, but our current ordinance says that we have to list this in September. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm not trying to force No, I get you. But it would be a great thing to take for next and and I think we have to my thing is about not having one uh corporate entity and slowly take over, right? Have a monopoly, right? At some point and and island needs like everyone's island needs to local needs. I it's something we've not addressed, but we've done I mean it takes time. We we we've done a walk to protect right now and I think it's another thing that needs to be done. Yeah. So that's a good point then. So let's let's put that on ordinance review. Ordinance review that we'll uh we'll we'll change that to be more favorable to what we're we want, you know, and it won't happen for this round, but it'll happen for the future rounds. Unless everyone feels strongly that we have to hold it for another year, but it doesn't sound like that. The ordinance says we can't. There we go. And I don't know if the last time that one came up if there was a Mount Desert resident that applied.

Somebody applied for free or something. out of my five she didn't get any of them. So, but that's that's what we asked to be there strong and whatever. That's one of the things that Rick was talking about. He told me that they had won lottery one time and the guy from Southwest met all three. One guy. Yeah, he put in three, but he didn't get chosen because someone else got picked. Oh, okay. But he tried. He had his son, him, and somebody else, I think. Anything for this story? Just something to think about. Yeah. Okay. Good. You have an item. Yeah. John, now that the ordinance was passed with uh with the favorable residents getting a more favorable thing. How is that working out? What's going on? It's I'm working with online waring to help us build out a system. Yeah. That flex it. Uh I don't know if you guys are all aware, but I have a different weight list for every series in every Harvard. So, I've seen it. I've gone online and seen it. and uh it uh they're trying to figure out a way to I think what we're going to end up doing is splitting and having two weight lists in every harbor for every series. I'm going to have to split off the residents and the non-residents is the only way that we're going to be able to do it and working towards getting towards the 20% saturation. Yeah, my best guess is right now we're close to 50/50. Wow. So, it potentially

could be years before some series ever see a non-residenting. But on the other hand, some series within that, if a one comes up and there's no residence on the series, I've got to give it to a non-resident. So, it will take I'll be long gone before it ever equalizes equalizes to the 20% but Adam maybe retired before that happens because you know there's some that there's quite a few residents in but there's quite a few in what we've been doing research there's a lot of series that there's not a resident even on the list. Sure. 600 series or something. Right. Or some of them even smaller. Yeah. So, no, but I think overall the residents are going to be really pleased. Online just did a massive update on their system last night and they're working with us to try to figure out how to best implement this. Y and I think their system is pretty robust and I think it will work because they can custom tailor ours say different than Southwest. So, and Southwest uses the same system a lot of towns do. So, I think it'll it'll work, but it's going to take me some time before it's fully implemented. But in the meantime, when I go to a list and see, you know, I can look at it and and pick out the resident. Right. Right. But you can nice to be able to go and look at it like I look at it now and everything's all lined up and it does it for me. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Well, they are pretty good organizations. It is. Yeah. There's there's four or five new ones that have

popped up and you know they're always down at our Harbor Master conference and they have decent systems but for what we do online I think is still the best one out there and it costs the town 0. So the $7 fee gets picked up by Warren so there's no cost at all to us. The other ones have cost involved that that would fall under the town and I don't think they're as good a system. We're 10 plus years in with online learning. They've been really good to us. I think we were the second town in Maine that jumped on them. They're based out of uh I think Connecticut. They have them they have harbors all over the world now. So I'm happy with and that was the guy who came and gave the presentation. No, that was No, no, that was a that was Marina High. Oh, and that's been done if you belong to Marina High or even go on and it's like a drone's eye view or kind of like a boat's eye view coming in the harbor to our facility. Just shows it's for people that have never been here that, you know, they want to see what it's like coming into Northeast Arbor and they can watch the the drone come in and go right to the dock system. It's pretty neat. Yeah. And that's zero cost to us also. From that bell we're going to take away the bell over by cranberry. None of ours are disappeared. By the way, you do complete your questions. Well, it's been it's been a pretty good

free-for-all meeting here with non big Jim. I just wanted to know better signage than the commercials down here and the public dock. Oh, did the uh the 25 and no feet, you know, the outside or the the east end the outside end of the 17 and under four hours. Yeah. And the commercial guys are meant to be inside of that. That's what we talked about as we talked about is the enforcement and then having a second date. We said first that they'd be either you get a notice in your skiff. No, I affirm it. We've been putting notices in skiffs that hey, your boat doesn't have a sticker on it. Please come up and get your commercial DY sticker. And and we've had quite a few that have come up. I think I out of 10, you told me there's three or four that still haven't come up and gotten their sticker yet, but so we're out of what's down there. There's three or four that still need to get their sticker. But so we're we're trying. It's you know I'm commenable. Did you get a piece of paper? No, you didn't. It must have blown away. I just went in last week. Did you? Is that only over here, John? Yeah, because the the inside of the public dock there is commercial dinghy tie up. You have to either be a fisherman or a commercial operator doing it. Are we going to enforce then stickers that or boats that don't have stickers that are there overnight? That's my intention. But the whole one thing was the that outside it's it's that's where 17 and under can go. That doesn't mean that if the

commercial is all full and we have so many commercial dingies, the commercial dingies are gonna go right out. I mean most keep them from tying the first everybody wants to tie on that outside cleat. Most of they don't they can get inside. Most people are naturally lazy and go in the point of it was that that outside end has always been designated that 4hour period that they for those 17 and under could go there but if it's full it's full. It's full of our commercial dingies that we've permaned. Then when the half the other float inside is empty because the commercial guys don't want to go around down there, it's not full. John, that's what we talked about. And that's but that whole thing's full. A lot of times it skips. What we talked about was the enforcement after a certain date of July 1st. Meaning that we enforce the ones that didn't have stickers on them. We weren't enforcing getting them out. You know, we reviewed the orders multiple times and it's he's got all the power in the world. They can be removed at their own expense and cost and ticket in they're not paying. I can't all boils down to him. On most days that commercial dingy dock is full. Yeah. But last year John they no long permits the last few years they're not get because you weren't enforcing. So I mean we're trying some warnings out to get people to come in and get their stickers once we've given them time to do that. If you guys want I will go down there and hammer that. We want to turn in the ordinance. That's very, you know, but I'm trying to get them to comply right now and once they have been given a week or two's notice and then we can go down and I feel good about writing tickets. Are you going to remove boats per ordinance from their violation suspense? If if we need to. I yanked one out of the water and dragged it up to the trap pile the other day. So

that's can be done. I mean it's free for the taping if it's over in the trap file. No, it will eventually get crushed and go to the dump if that's that's the only place it's going to go. That's a hard job. I'm being I it's not fair to throw it all on him. And honestly, it's in my opinion, it's some of the lowerhanging fruit. There's a lot more other stuff that is more important than worrying about whether someone's got a sticker on the dinghy. But you are right. It But you can't a lot of it's commuters. They commute from the islands. They both they pull in port back. They know his hours. They know the weekends at certain times of the year. It gets abused mostly by the island nonstop. It's also people that come in and rent Transient Horses. trip that you know make a mistake and go to the wrong dock. So there's always that in there too. And you know I try my best. I can run registrations on main registrations and we try to do that before we you know hammer somebody to make sure we're not giving someone a ticket that rented a moing for a night and you know but but then again if they're in violation they deserve a ticket. Um, but you know, there really isn't any clear markings there to keep them out of there either. The science says commercial skips only and it points that way. It's a tough balance. It's a and it's a short-term problem, but a lot of it is that people the people that are actually allowed to use it don't get their stickers because there's no enforce. But, you know, like I said, we're down to I think three or four that haven't. And you know, we're trying once we get them all handed out, then it's easy to go down there and walk the Peter. And if you don't see a sticker, you can go down

and do something. How much are the tickets? It's determined on what box I want to check. Oh, I see. Depending on whether they're first time offender or anywhere from a warning to I think 50 bucks. No. So any violations of provisions of this ordinance specifically penalty set forth here and or specifically penalty otherwise not provided by laws of state of age was subject to a monetary penalty. So 430A MRS 4452 amended and includes a limitation and minimum penalty for specific violation of $100. The maximum penalty for $2500. I don't think that's to do with dingy dog. So when you collecting dog violations of people not in our respon orders, it goes back to this subject and we brought it back to that in the ordinance changes for me. I think the $2,500 fine would set up but 100 bucks and they don't pay our fine. They lose their rights to being here. We we we spelled this out numerous times. My tickets are already preprinted with the numbers on them. So there got a big change of that. Then I think they go to 50. There may be a $100 check mark on there. Not quite sure. I haven't looked at one since last year. So just add a zero to all those numbers or two. Change a 20 to two 50 to five. You need money for that new fear. I was experienced the sign down there does point to where the commercial fishing meant to go. So I think I don't know what's in the word. So even the public f here violation would be fine in accordance with article X $100 fine. But we need an objective where

two then and says of the acts and the vessel may be removed by the owner's expense and rest. I think $100 fine is a little much for expanding over the twohour limit myself. But you know there's other things in there that would warrant that. But, you know, a parking ticket for a car is only 35 bucks. So, we usually start with the $20. But where do we start enforcing certainly change the ordinance? So, we say that how we select people for the commercial dock and we don't do stuff. We're going to pick or choose how we enforce the ordinance. That's it. That's a slippery slope. Oh, I get you. But I'm just working off the tickets that are printed that say Mount Desert on them that we've been using all along. Well, given the fact that hardly any tickets have been written at all in previous years, let's see what we write. More tickets than you probably Oh, yeah. imagine. I mean, my guys are down there even today during the rain every hour. They're down checking the public dock and they're down there determining whether a boat has been there over the two hours. And we do we start with with warnings this time of year and and we escalate when we need to. And it's it's up to the officer or the kid who goes down there with a clipboard when he looks at something and it's gone past its time. It's his discretion whether he feels that it warrants a ticket. But that's not under his discretion. It's under the ordinance. But anytime an officer does anything and pulls over a car, it's his discretion whether they're dy they're duly officers. Yeah. Of the state and the board. It's their you know discretion and you know you don't always

go down and put a ticket on with a monetary value on it the first time. We give people a chance with a warning and the next time you see the boat, if they continue, we escalate up the chain on the check marks and generally people figure it out after they get hit for even a $20 bill, you know, hurts people and and we, you know, work up through it. Probably run into that about every hobby, right? Have the same problems have. There is not a no public dock or a dingy dock in the island. The island comes to the United States that doesn't have the exact same problems that we I'm playing devil's advocate. It says the answer maybe he they have the choice that but I'm trying to get him to escalate the like you have the ability to lay down the law and clean up the problem. it it you're not going to be a nice guy to do it and it's tough at times but at some point we have to there's folks that have commuters there's repeat violators people at some point we have to start because because the usage have gone up it's the same with with the parking we've got it at some point you have to like you have to step it up and that's all I'm saying and we we can crank it up you're right because Cranberry Island has sealed a dog tied up do that again and that's something we but our whole like it took us a long time to enforce the park and you know what it it's not a small ticket now they get enough to get them to but it it's taken it's taken some time and at some point you have and we have the authorities all here and we just have to sometimes those were pe people and we had we had to sometimes they're friends and say but they still exactly you know it could be me as well like if I'm a guy it doesn't matter you There's only like most things a few that

really abuse it and there's some that are there once the largest abuses of our system both arms well committee we've had a good robust discussion here I I have a question though to John about that John are they abusers because they don't have anywhere to Oh, I mean is that like is that their only option? Yes. To abuse the they they do have Southwest, but essentially that is correct. You know, I think opportunities were passed on years ago by the Cranberry Isles that could have benefited their people and they they didn't do anything or couldn't. And uh you know their answer has been extremely kind and our resources to them and we get abused. I mean they have their own peer. They enforce their own pier. They take it go after people that tie up illegally on their pier that Allens advance it. Oh advance it. Okay. They have to have a permit. Yeah. So they have their have a whole parking facility. They have a whole pier multiple float system and they some people don't even want to pay or be involved in that island. So, it's easy to come over here and run them up. Well, last year there was a 22ft boat tied up at the skiff float for couple of weeks. I've got a boat. They won't let me have more and I'm going to use my boat. I'll tie another Oh, that's the attitude. Yeah. Where were that? Where was that boat from? Uh, I don't know. I didn't know the guy. A huge outboard. Look at 150 horse outboard. And then if you say anything about it,

they don't get pucked up, you know, put steam on them. Yeah. The agenda that address general issues, rule business, but I think we've talked about everything. So motion to adjourn. Next thing is adjournment. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Seconded. Any discussion on that? All those in favor? Hi. Wait, September. Enjoy the summer. Yeah.