Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

was that I want to go to Yeah. Yeah. Make sure you're there. Stand up and give him applause when he comes.

Good afternoon. You know, you do it. I just pushed the record button, sir. We're ready to go. Record it before you say anything. We'll call the meeting to order. 437 1635. Sorry about that. We got any minutes to approve? You give me a second and I will tell you. Okay.

First item on the agenda is to approve the minutes of April 14th. Make a motion to approve the minutes of April 14th. That's seconded. Seconded. All in favor? I. Opposed? Carried. No business. Commercial operators fee schedule looking at passenger count and vessel length. John must have some information for us. This is uh something that Chris requested. Um I don't know if you got anything to say for a you any info that you want.

So it's something we've brought up. So you have a set fee for the same vessels whether they carry six passengers or 60 passengers. and other towns we research like Rockland, Portland and other places charge per foot of the vessel and a higher passenger cap like fee per passenger. So, we're looking at one, we need I mean, we're discounting for the operators that use here enough so that some operators choose not to operate and keep their permit or their lease. And there's I mean, there's large potential here for I mean, they make a lot of money off of it that we're not like up to speed with the other areas. So, how do we look at this? So if a bigger boat that carries more passengers should pay more than a six pastor or a smaller vessel. So this isn't something that's decided tonight. It's just that something we need to discuss. So we're charging a flat fee at 28 cents per passenger. Correct.

And 660 a year.

60 days. Sorry. And the 20 every other town that we found is charged a dollar for like residents, $2 for non-resident vessels. So we're we're low in that category. So, this is something to look at and gain data from and this something to move forward, you know, into I by December, right, Sean? If we were going to make a change to ordinance, we would have to have it ready to go by the end of December. Or if it's just a fee change, there's no timeline on it because that's just something we put forth to the board of selectment and they would approve it or not. So, do we we charge a dollar?

No, we charge 28 cents ahead and 660 for the yearly license. How long has How long has it been 28 cents? Like we came up with been 28 cents probably somewhere between five and eight years. Before that, it was 25 cents. We did a three cent. No, it was 22 cents, I'm sorry. So, we did a 6 cent increase about 5 to eight years ago. Um, and it's it's still 28 cents. What's the revenue figure for the passenger count for the total revenue figure?

Well, I have all the numbers from everybody for last year. They're I don't have them all together, but the C Princess had 14,769 passengers. The income for the t for the marina off that was 4135. Beon bunker had 28,000 473 passengers for 797244. Sailicadia had 1530 passengers for $428.40. Sunrise had 26 passengers. We made $7.28 off of that. ASCU had 418 passengers for $1174. And the Cadillac water taxi had 2,000 passengers for $560.

Say CRS had 14,000, Bunker had 28,000. Yes. So part of the is like so the sea prince is the larger vessel takes up larger dock space more parking this well everything involves so it we're charging the same fee for whether you're taking six people out in a small sailboat or 60 foot 59 ft vessel and the reason the queen is more because it's a year round boat. So, so this is just the start of a discussion and like so where where's here's rock one what is it

and we had no numbers per foot per season and it's a dollar per passenger for residents non-residents you'll pay $2 per basket I don't understand the not so if you if you work got a license work out of here and you're not a resident yep you pay more So that's just for the passenger feet. This is just for Rockwell. This isn't for us. We're not suggesting that. Okay.

We're just This is just a reference point. So I looked at Camden. He asked me to come up with stuff and he was going to look into it. He was busy at the time. I forward him all the information found on their websites. Port one is obviously more money. Just a reference point of where it mostly charged per foot. So if you have a larger vessel that takes up more dock space Yeah. Avenue, you you pay more. I didn't do it. And so on top of the fee that we're making, they're they have to pay $660 a year. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, it seems pretty pretty low.

It is because some of the towns are it's, you know, three, four, $5,000. Uh, you know, then then I came across some towns like I think it was like St. George, they charge like $458. Some weird number. I have no idea why. Uh, and they they're all over the place. 60. Well, we used to be 600. We got every 10% increase on a lot of things. And that's that's where that came from.

My my discrepancy uh has always been the fact that the dock fee is the same whether you're a seasonal boat or a year round boat. And the reason I find the discrepancy valid is because being a year- round boat, chances are you get dockage out of it. And uh that always is kind of an irritant to me. Well, Bon Bunker does pay slip rental for the winter. Okay. Yep.

But you are correct. That's something else to throw in the mix is, you know, a boat that operates year round versus a seasonal. So this is what we're after is a discussion to put you know for points for further you know how a fee schedule could be made or you know just looking at the different points of it you've summertime pes we're just looking for more data points to put into it and he gathered like you know the trip data the vessel it takes more people or less somehow we can make it more equitable for all the commercial operators but it shouldn't pay the same fee and it shouldn't be a fee that someone's good pay and doesn't want to operate either. You know,

the other key uh as a user down there is the uh access to the dock. And right now, I see it uh pretty well balanced because there doesn't seem to be much conflict between vessels coming in to pick up people hanging offshore. And I think that's a something that we have to really consider. Uh I know as an operator down there, that's a valuable consideration. to be able to come in and land and pick up people and and get away. And also there's different different harbors have like we we allow them to use a ticket booth. You know, everyone's commercial operators allowed to use that.

Well, we have to certain ones that are Exactly. that are approved that have to. It's three. That's not Chris. No, it's eight. It's 900 or not. The dollar of the year chamber pays a dollar. The chamber. Okay. I'm sorry. So, but they pay to the chamber. No, they pay you pay the town and it ends up in our account. Okay. Because we I take care of that building or we do pay for everything in there. So, so how's that approved or how's that taxed on?

You guys approved the town meeting every year. They ask for the approval to lease a certain portion of the visitors center to the uh ticket booth people. That's a article every year. Same thing for the Yes, there's three that have the ability to do it.

C Princess, Bean Bunker, and U Salicadia. Salicadia does not exercise their option. Hey, uh just to keep in our mind as we're thinking about this, what's your you're the one who brought it up, I'm guessing. So, what's your kind of goal or what do you how do you foresee this going forward?

So, the basis of we have a huge project coming up and a lot of usage in this town, commercial fishing to other commercial usage. We're kind of we're cheap. We're an easy place to come. We have parking that we discussed we've had to get control of where we're where, you know, other places charge more for usage and then we get kind of an overflow at certain times of the year and it's a a lot of those businesses have you know huge revenue off from paying $600 a year and 28 cents a pasture versus other places and kind of looking at it and being responsible for we're going to ask the taxpayers for a lot of money. So I think we need to be proportional to other towns for the services we charge other than to say hey taxpayer give us x amount of money to build this new pier.

I have a definite comment about the taxpayers funding that pier. The last pier we built was approximately 75 years old. Anyway, over the years, it's been the best investment this town has ever had. And uh we've returned money to the town. I don't know how long, but it's approximately what, a million now. Our income. Yeah, we're Yeah. One little over a million dollars. We're anticipating this year.

I saw the engineers down here today starting with their um surveying. And if we can build a pier that'll last another 70 years, I think the cost to the town is going to be uh almost uh non-existent because it'll be returning funds to the town. I don't know what the new pier is going to cost, but it's definitely going to be a good investment for our community. But it comes out of our enterprise fund too, right? It will, but if if we get above a certain number at first, the marina is not going to be able to adequately cover the whole bond payment.

That's that's absolutely true, but 70 years from now, it's going to be a huge good investment. So, I don't think anyone's going to have too much of an issue with it. I I don't I can't imagine. But to Chris's point, I think he's right. It's uh we need to look at keeping competitive with other places.

I think I think we need to be competitive and I think we need to keep up with inflation and and uh maintenance costs, but the total cost of that project down there to me is not a real concern. U we need to make the very best uh structure that can possibly be built and uh that's my goal. I think we all support that. It's just like what we're, you know, we have to be conscious of what we're charging and not charging. And commercial fishing, like a lot of commercial fishing has come here because it's a good deal, you know, compared to fees other places have paid. And you you said that before. I'm just saying it comes in both ways. I just want us to be proactive

and accordingly and we're not just, you know, subsidizing other commercial entities at the taxpayers expense. That's

Yep. Oh, and and so the next thing was we brought in was a fee for is a fee for there's a couple organizations that couple boats that haul cargo off of here and so there's two of them that haul cargo and that's something we need to discuss. We don't have a fee currently for that. I scoured every town on the coast of Maine and the only one that I wasn't able to physically talk to or get information that I think may be one that may have something is Stonington because it's another place that sub uh supports an outer island. And not one of the other harbors had any bees that had any cargo involved cuz most of the ones that support an outer island have a main state ferry service and everything goes on the ferry. So there's no

cargo like what we see down here on our pier. I think Stonington may have something but the harbor masters weren't in today. That stone pier is a main state pier. Is it the main the main pier? The boat IO goes into the It doesn't but that's a main state pier subsidized. Did you do Fort Clyde? Yeah, I did actually. I think I have their stuff. They don't they service measure. Couldn't find any Monhe too. Couldn't find any fees. Yeah, Monheaggan actually. Yeah. Yeah. They the ferry charges you take stuff along. Sure.

When you if you go out to Montaggan, you get a number of bags and you go over that. It's like on an airplane and then they have a whole separate freight boat that goes out there. What I was looking for was something similar to what we have where all this stuff gets dumped on the pounds pier. That's this one charges for everything that goes out to this area. Yeah, Be and Bunker does charge free, but we're not charging, you know, the Blue General or Beum Bunker anything for the, you know, you guys all see the pier space that gets taken up by coolers and, you know, it's significant. Yeah. And I had I wasn't able to find a town that had a fee schedule for any type of freight.

Be an innovator in it. Well, might be rather than get that each individual piece, start charging for a flat fee. Well, here that was that was my guess and I've got a little note here is my suggestion is that we start by charging the ones that are running freight the same that we would charge a uh a commercial fisherman for using the dock, which is how much? Sounds good. It's $550. That's an annual fee. It is. Yeah. Who else does it besides Blue General?

Well, B and Bunker runs, but you know, they're license socalled, is for running passengers. It's not for running freight. Yeah. So, and they run as much or more freight than the Blue General. I would say more. Definitely a lot more. Yeah,

that would be my suggestion. And this is also, you know, everything's in place for this season, so we can't change anything. Suggests that we look into it and do a a package change when we do what uh we were talking about the passenger fees and all of that at the same time. Yeah. Because they would they would they've already set their fair rates. Yeah. No, we're you know, we always look at the next season after the one just finished and that's what we're we're up to right now. So, I hope they did a better job last year when they had a separate boat taking their freight out.

They probably will again this summer. They'll use the double B, I would assume, because it just overwhelms them and they can't handle the freight and the passengers, but um does does the restaurant provide their own boat or no? I mean, that seems to be I think the Blue General hauls a lot of their stuff, too. Okay. No, but I think Bunker Bill and Bunker takes their Blue General just does for the store. Okay. down there and then see 30 or 40. What about canisters? Who hauls those? What about all the like the Hadties Cafe stuff and all that? Who's hauling that? I think that's beyond bunker cuz there they'll have six, eight, 10 coolers down there on days. You must believe the lever. Yeah.

Yeah. Not weeks. So, this is just for a discussion. we can put all of this and have this figured out by the end of the year so we can implement it for 2027. I think that would be be a good scenario for I think we've got to talk about another fee too is the launching ramp which is a major access point for construction and uh so $5. No, it's per barge trip. I get I get a check every month from uh John Goodwin Jr. Y religiously and it seems

they it's self-counting just like the passenger fees are and it's very uh reasonable I think what he's doing. Yeah. Sometimes it's 500 and sometimes it's almost 2,000. And is he the only he is the only one other than Aadia Fuel? Yeah. May run one or two three trips a year. Um there really there isn't another barge that operates out of here. So is there a charge for like when I launch boat you charge? No, you're a resident. Oh. Oh. If you're a non-resident, you launch your own boat, it's five bucks. Uh,

what about like fountain when they launch all those things? Not at this time. If they launching a resident's boat, you know, no, there is. Oh, yeah. Because it would ultimately go to the resident, but in theory, if it's a non-resident, are they supposed to pay? And I'm not picking on B. I'm just saying that name. I know there it's never been a fee. It's never been a fee that's been collected. And uh you know, same thing with people coming that don't live here in the summer. If they come in and hand their $5 over, thank you for for doing it, but they're just to have somebody out there watching, you know, are you a resident or not? You know, it would be a waste of our time and money, right?

What about commercial like kayak? There hasn't been any commercial kayak. There's a few that launched off from there. Well, we turned them down a few years ago. We have we actually suggested they go up to the Thomasville Park. Yep. Uh so I think it was the beginning that there was going to be some pressure but I think we turned it down. There's a handful of you know just private people doing their thing and I always tell them is you don't back your car down the ramp and block the ramp then there's no charge. They still use Bartletts a commercial device. Yeah.

Charge them for that, don't they? We do not. We do not. I think we discussed it at one point, but we never finish through with it. Are there issues at Seal Hav for anything like that? Yeah. for cargo and not that I'm aware of. Okay. Every once in a while early in the morning when I bike over there, I'll see a group. It's obviously guide le taking kayaks out off the beach. Off the beach. Yeah. But yeah, that's not in our Bailey work. Yeah,

I have heard complaints of uh them being out there later in the evening in the fog and stuff too, but uh the problem is Well, it's a good discussion. I I don't know if we're prepared to uh recommend any fees changes tonight. No, I the end of the year, right? This was just this is just to open it up and I'd like people to review other towns and just have a discussion and think where they want to be and you know the more the more data we can look at across the state I mean the better you know judgment we can make.

When when would be a deadline for establishment of new fees uh before the end of December. Our last meeting in December. That gives me time to put it in front of the board of selectman at the end of December meeting and uh definitely should be on January 1st on the agenda in September, October. So maybe pay attention this summer and see. Yeah. And uh if we get some new information, have some positive numbers to Yeah. I've got like six different town printouts here, but I didn't have time to compile it. Um,

so even if it's a state fair, wouldn't they have fees? You drive, they have a fee for the truck that drives on the ferry. That's it. You know what's in the truck? The ferry doesn't care unless it's, you know, gas, propane, or fuel. Uh, just like Swans Island. Uh my wife's family ran the Swans Island freight forever and they sold it to the gentleman that owns the store out on Swans Island. He has a big like a one-tonon van and they go off and load it and all he does is pay the the fairy fee to drive on. It's no fee for whatever's in it. And that one carries the US mail also. So,

any other comment? One other piece, Chris. The non-resident fisherman. Yes, non-resident fisherman as well. Just another fee that's charged down there to be evaluated and who is paying it, who's not paying it, whether there should be John says like if you pay, he's got views on that. If you're paying for a slip for six months out of the year, you shouldn't pay that fee. But if you're there during the summer, he charges them. I do charge them.

So, I'm just saying objectively looking at it that I want it brought up as well. The commercial fishing need to be looked at, not just commercial operators and what the fees that you're paying. So, it's basically the fee structure for everyone, not just a few. That and that's why I wanted that mentioned in that one. What is that fee now? Is it 550? 550. We 10% we went up from five to 550. Is that resident and non-resident? That's just non there's no fee currently for a resident. So what what I was saying is if we charge a commercial operator a resident versus non-resident fee, should there possibly be a resident fee for commercial fishing activity off the pier?

What about uh parking revenue? That's what I'm just saying. No, I'm objective in this that I bettering myself versus the others. Yeah. No, I know. And we we put a lot of money into those hoist and there is a hoist fee and we pay the hoist fee again or just it's just a I I think it needs to be a broad discussion that everyone's included. There isn't a hoist fee. There was for years we paid the $75 if that went away. But I'm just saying we it's just a discussion we need to have and look at it broadly for everyone that uses the facility. Y if anyone could think about it is there is not no it's been

there is one and if somebody comes in for like a one-time use or something they want to use it you know it's like five bucks. If they want to pay to just use the hoist for the whole year it's $75. But if you're a commercial non-resident fisherman, the fee is 550. Uh if you're a resident, there's there's no fee for anything down there other than resident slip rental. You said the parking fees, but isn't that tied in with the dock rental?

We don't have any parking fees because we don't rent any parking spots. Wonder if that's something that's easier to do with one of those kiosk things. So, it's not really a burden on you, but we can get some revenue. All the construction people. Interesting one to to do because Southwest is starting it. I guess

they are. But, you know, like with our commercial users that are have licenses to use our commercial dock, you know, that's always been part of their their deal, like the C Princess as parking for all of their people that come in. And, you know, if you start charging, you know, all their people coming in a fee, you know, where does the revenue go from our tickets like down here? Does that go in like a general fund or uh ones I write for like parking on the docks and stuff or are you talking about on the car windshields?

Car windshields uh go into the it's a special fund that they go into for the town of Mount Desert and and town of Bar Harbor. And it's very limited how the town can spend that money has to be spent on roads and stuff. They just can't they could pay a ticket parking person with that.

Yep. or but they couldn't say you know pay for you know other stuff like not road associated but the tickets that I write for like parking on the public dock and stuff that goes into the marina revenue good topics for discussion why don't we start in September and keep moving it back until we get it done.

We're sub. I just want I just want I mean I think we need to you know rather than get to the point we're like oh raise it 10%. Raise it this. I think it needs to be objectively looked at different boards everyone look at it and come in with different ideas. Let's set a deadline for establishment of fees and I suggest that we do it no u by the first meeting in November. We have sure we change the fee we have to have it done by then. No, if we could have our final vote on everything in our meeting in December. Yeah. Then the third the second meeting for the selectman for December, I could get it approved so it's all ready to go for 2027.

If we have it pretty much wrapped up at our November meeting and do a final vote in December, we'd be perfectly fine. So, we're going to have September and October to hash this over, establish the fee u that we want to present to the selectman at a meeting in November and then we'll be in good shape. Yeah. I I'm just wondering John or someone can you just like give us a table now that shows what the fees are for everything. So then we have like when we're comparing it to another town kind of our fees. Yeah. Yep. It's available right on the town of Mount Desert website under the harbor master link.

Okay. There's a summer and a winter one. Right. And uh I think I just had it updated because we updated some prices with the selectman for slip fees this summer. So it should be completely updated. If you have any issues, I just want you know and I'll email it to you. I just wanted a rough but it is there. There's one for summer and one for winter. Could you forward rock ones to them? I mean that's kind of closest to everyone. Yeah, there's there's some interesting ones. I've got I've got Lincolnville. Uh, St. George, Camden, Auckland. Yeah, if you can forward those to me, that

I looked at like 20 of them today just trying to find different things and there's some interesting ones. I even there's things like most towns charge for like commercial skiff dingy fees. Like there's a lot of things we're not doing. I'm not trying to, you know, char make people say much money, but there's a lot of things that we and the taxpayers pay for that are not a given gift, you know, and especially for commercial activities and especially we issue permits for certain areas. Shouldn't they pay a fee to have a permit to park in a certain spot? And I'm not trying to fee structure us, you know, out of existence for a lot of people, but it it's something to review and look at,

especially with our increased usage over the years. in north in southwest that have a dinghy on on the float. You have you have to have a sticker. You you have to pay. Here's that with your hoist feed. Huh? Yeah. I think you get that with the hoist fee over there. Well, I'm talking about the you know where I tie up now. Oh yeah. It's it's usually a 10. Used to be years ago in Southwest $10 for a stick and we maybe that would weed out some of these ones that sit there and fill up with water. Yeah. We just sick. I mean, but yeah, we could see ourselves to not

sometimes fees uh give you the impression that you are privileged to use the dark and I think we have to be very very careful down here because we have diversified use, recreational, yaching, fish, commercial use. Uh the lobster buying has been a high pressure deal on us and I think we have to keep that very much in mind and not allow this gear down here to become uh all commercial activity or uh designed to go in one direction. Yeah. Okay, everybody.

I've got two things that aren't on. All right. Bring it up on the general issues. So the first one is our next meeting is on voting day. So we're getting displaced. Uh the following night, Wednesday is available for this room. Um if that is good with all of you, uh instead of the 9th, we move our meeting to June 10th at 4:30 right here. Okay. Y send send out a reminder to us. An email every month. I'll make it yellow. Thank you. Sticks out.

Go race things at home. Big big letter says Wednesday. Uh I have a a diver Aaron Gilpatrick. Uh he's worked for for the harbor for numerous years and been diving for 20 plus years. Um he's asking permission to be put on our list as a moing inspector as a diver and I would support that. So move second move and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor of I appointing Aaron. Thank you. Opposed go ahead

to get to the diver and the inspection and stuff. I know, you know, obviously like somebody like Jason has insurance. So if he does something and says it's okay and it breaks loose, I'm assuming there's some sort of responsibility on him and he has insurance and stuff. There is is. So

I mean, is that something our moing inspector should have to have? All all of our regular moing inspectors do like Charmers uh Charles Bradley Barge Jason um there's one other uh but they do so they're really most of the guys that are diving uh do their own gear and I had that discussion with Aaron yesterday that I was like you know that you know you're responsible if you do work for somebody and and something happens that's you know because Jason and all them other guys carry huge you know policies and even the diving that I used to do on my own time with for the town I did it through Jason under his insurance so I never did any diving or checking anyone's mooring on my own because I didn't want that liability Jason's name was always the name that was on there and he trusted that I knew what I was looking at. So Aaron has done the same thing. He has done some diving for for Jason and and also Mike Olsen, but they they're neither one of them are doing any diving on their own unless it's their own gear,

but they're and they're not changing tackle. They're not the ones responsible for the upkeep. Well, they can. They can.

They sure if you guys, you know, like we have several divers, but none of them are doing other people's moorings. They've really done it to be able to do their own. And they may do and they do other diving for other companies and stuff on the side. And uh but none of them are, you know, I couldn't call any of them and say, "Hey, I got 10 more I need inspected." They they just don't have the ability because it's so hard as a diver without a barge above you to lower 50 feet of 5/8 chain. It's just not possible as a diver to to be able to handle that without a barge above you to to do all the work. So

is he going to work under Jason or is he he really wants this so he can inspect. He has three moorings of his own, a two 100s and a 200 series moing. So he's he knows how to do it because he's been doing it for people forever and he's just trying to save himself some money. He may do some diving for u Alva Barge, but when he does it with Elva Barge, it's Jason's name that gets put on the inspector. So So should we have someone review the liability and moing inspectors?

It's not our name on the the thing. I think it's even been tested a few times. A few of them have had issues and and have come out of it. Okay. But they all carry insurance. They're not doing work for us. So, you know, it's not for us to make them provide insurance to us because they're not working for us. If when they I guess you could

it really fall back to the vessel if it broke free from moing. the it's up to the the vessel and the you know the inspector you know we carry all those records of all of it being done. I guess you might be able to say that you know we want insurance if they do work on town moorings but you would think so the only one that does work on town morings is Alva Barge and I know they carry insurance. So great. Any other old business? The one other thing, uh, yeah,

you're here because he wasn't aware that we were going to talk about, uh, seafood buyers last month and I guess he wanted I don't know if you had anything particular. Yeah, I just I know there was some discussion about trucks moving and um I just was hoping to get filled in by somebody that was here and maybe discussed about the operations and how how best to handle it down there. I think there's been a major improvement since our last meeting because I called you and and mentioned that, you know, the truck had been sitting in one place too long and I've noticed the truck moving numerous times during the day lately and for the past month and I think they've solved the problem. Uh that was really the only thing, the truck just backing out there and sitting the whole time unless a fisherman asked them to move. Uh I I think it's been handled, but uh I know you guys had uh asked to come and

yeah, have something to say tonight.

Well, I just I kind of wanted to provide a different perspective because I personally think that moving the truck more regularly can may cause issues in in addition to the truck just sitting there. Um you know, it is a busy pier. It's a busy parking lot. Um people are walking around on vacation. There's dogs on leashes. Like it's trucks going on and off there is statistically going to create more opportunity for accidents to happen. And you know there's been discussion about the use of the parking lot. Now they're sitting in a yellow striped off zone that's really meant for maneuvering with trailers and people coming around the corners. It creates a blind spot where that truck is sitting and people are coming in to the second row of cars around the truck. Um I know there was some discussion about the where the pavement meets the um you know when the trucks moving over that multiple times a day that's potentially creating more wear and tear on the facility. Um I not to my knowledge was there any issue where the truck was ever asked to move that it that if it didn't move and get out of the way. Um a couple other things worth mentioning is if the truck moves and then you've got somebody unloading their bags to go on to be on bunker or something and a boat's coming in. Sometimes they leave their car and they're going up and down the pier and they're talking to people. Now now the boat's waiting congesting the harbor. the truck's waiting trying to get onto the pier. Yeah. So, there's basically there's adverse effects potentially to move in the truck more than it needs to be moved. We don't necessarily want the truck to be sitting there more than it has to, but as boats are coming into the harbor and we're trying to provide service, you could have periods of the day where you're going to get boats back to back to back

within 15 minutes or a half an hour of each other. There's also periods of the day where you might have a vote at 10:00 a.m. and we know we're not expecting the next vote until 2 p.m. So, I just think there could be some more open-mindedness or discussion about how to properly handle this because I would say we'd be more than willing. I mean, we're willing to do what is best for the pier and what the board wants or the committee wants. Um, but you know, if we know there's going to be a 4-hour period of time, maybe moving the truck to the trailer parking makes the most sense or something like that. Um, but if we also know we're expecting four or five or six boats, right, back to back to back. It doesn't really make sense to me to move off park. Oh, and now the next boat comes in, now we're backing back onto the pier. It seems like a lot of unnecessary movement. I didn't know where the kind of initiative to, you know, impose stricter enforcement of it.

It wasn't in a stricter enforcement. It's it's always been there. It just it got lapsed and and the truck just were back out there and sit for long periods of time. And when there's two trucks, you can see how someone trying to get to the bunker fairy to unload their groceries or whatever, you know, becomes an issue. And you know, I have heard comments and not saying it's your truck or one of the other trucks, but had people that have asked the truck to move and was very hostile, you know, conversations. So, I'm not pointing fingers at any one truck, but I have heard those and I know there may be a member or two here that have heard the same.

This is a whole new phenomenon. You know, trucks coming to Northeast Harbor to buy lobsters. This didn't happen in 10 years ago. uh all these lobster dwarfs, Bass Harbor, Southwest Harbor, uh have shut down and now all of a sudden the responsibility has come uh basically on the town of Mount Deserve because we had the best facility and it's one of the main reasons why we insist that we don't want to expand that service down there because we're so multiple u directed in many different directions. recreational uh commercial fishing stuff like like that. So, I think you have to be really really u willing to cooperate with our goals of keeping the pier open for multiple uses and not it's not going to be designated as a lobster buying pier.

Well, I don't think that's what I'm asking whatsoever. And I also did explicitly say, you know, we want to cooperate and do what the town's asking. But I mean, I don't know if anyone, you know, can see from a different perspective how additional movement, you know, especially during that time frame maybe where we're expecting boats back to back to back could cause, you know, unnecessary safety issues. Scott, what are we thinking? Well, I agree with you. if they're coming in back to back, but you just mentioned someone coming in at 10 and then four hours later, they certainly can move over, go back to wherever you came from rather than sit there for 4 hours.

Yeah. Which which I totally agree with. But where the way it's written is if they're not buying, they need to move. So that's why I'm bringing up the discussion is is there any you know opportunity to evaluate how the beer is being used and

what he's referring to is 9.16.2 in a regulation. So a seafood buyers will only be allowed to have one buying vehicle in use at the time of the year. Buyers may only use main beer while actively loading their product. There's no waiting or standing on a pier. In traditional years ago we stood loading stuff. It'd be a half hour like if you're loading traps or whatever, you didn't stay on the pier more in this kind of a gentleman's agreement. No one you didn't occupy a spot more than a half hour. Y

and so I think what he's asking is that would you know where it's just this on off on off on off would be you know be able to sit out there for a a set time period versus and the hard thing is to be honest with our worst is cramming around come in the ferry. People run in, they can't back, they drive in, they can't back out. We provide parts or two bags. They run down the pier to load it on the pier. They don't weave it to load like the cargo. They walk down the pier, weave their vehicles, or they're racing miss the boat. They shouldn't They're not They're not a commercial operator. It shouldn't be out on the main pier. They drive their vehicles out and they have a sense of entitlement to log two bags of groceries. We have carts to provide for everyone to log carbon down. The the yachts don't do that. the the yachts you watch, they bring the they use those carts and come down and you don't fogg up the main pier, but when the ferry comes in, it it completely fills it up and then people drive out, especially people that in the summertime they drive and then they can't back out. Yeah. They shouldn't even be out on the pier. We there could back here, but I agree with you.

Two bags of groceries when your car is provided, you could walk and carry it. people paying $5,000 a year and in Bass Harbor and other places that fees may be a little large or or that equivalent and they park their trucks all day out. How about also saying that you set up a time from 1 to 4 you'll buy lobsters. We could do that too. You know get in at 10:00. Okay. just did. You know, everybody looks the truck's idling while they were sitting there waiting and the air conditioner running the windows up and I don't think it's it's the it's the chiller in the back of the truck keeping the truck cold is what you hear running. It's running.

Not always. It's reverberating. They shut it down. They're super conscious on their trucks running because they cost of fuel. The the reapers are diesel powered themselves. So, the truck does not have to be running for the Reaper to be Yeah. chilling. And another example is buying the winter regards to heat. So the truck eventually is running in the winter to provide heat. So I I'll just say it sounds like you're obviously being very reasonable. I think most of the drivers are probably reasonable. If boats are coming in back to back and they're a few minutes apart, it's not a big deal. It sounds like what happened is you had maybe a driver or two that were a little bit rude. Maybe

not necessarily his drivers. It could have been one of any otherbody and maybe the person who came up to them was rude. So it just escalated. It sounds like within reason you pull out. If you're waiting a few minutes, it's fine. If someone else needs to get there, well, the truck will have to move. To your point, I think you're right. Going back and forth, back and forth doesn't make sense. But it seems like as long as all the drivers know, like look, you got to be nice to people down here. People are going to be a pain in the butt. these people are coming in with their two bags of groceries and they want to get out there, too. And you just got to turn your head and just go, "Okay, whatever." You know?

Well, I appreciate you understanding it, but to that point, the way it's written is black and white. And so, if somebody sees our truck and we're expecting a boat in 15 minutes and they're sitting there not buying, now they could come to the harbor committee and say, "Hey, we saw their truck sitting there and they weren't buying." How about the boats being responsible for coordinating a time? We trying our best. We have a group chance but that I mean there's a lot of independence down there when you come around the helm and uh they're not they don't feel obligated to follow many rules. Well, we ask our fishermen to communicate via our group chats. You have a specific group that you just buy from?

We have we buy in multiple harbors. So, we've got Northeast Harbor chat communication group and boats report to us when they're coming in. And so, we do have a general idea. There's a handful of people that don't always message when they're coming in, but we have a general idea of, you know, from 1 to 4, from 2 to 6, depending on the weather a lot of times. Um, we have a general idea of when that boat's going to be back to back. So, you know, I think I personally think that trying to buy and stay on the pier during that time frame, obviously moving if somebody needs to use the hoist and we're and we're not buying, you know, it's totally within reason. Um, you know, if if we know there's going to be greater than a one hour window, say, or even a half an hour window between one boat to the next, you know, I would be mind, you know, continuing to ask our guys to get off the pier. I I agree. They really shouldn't be sitting on a pier from 10:00 a.m. if they know the next boat's not till 2 p.m. That That also doesn't make sense.

We don't establish a particular rules. You as individual buyers don't get together and coordinate your timing, do you? Well, it's it would be So, it's up to the town to say, "Well, I mean, we're not saying it's your truck or somebody else's. there's four buyers and they're not coordinating their efforts. So, the responsibility falls back on us to keep the pier open.

I guess to that point, it's it's when the boats are coming in. So, it's not like we can talk to another buyer and say, "Hey, we're going to buy from noon to 2 and you're going to buy from 2 to 4." All of our boats might be coming in from 2 to 4 and there happens to be two trucks they're buying during that time frame. I don't think want that. We're not asking you to do wait. Every boat's spinning out there. Boats won't get out.

We're not asking you to do that. All we're asking is be reasonable. You know, if you've got another boat coming in 10 minutes, by all means stay where you are, you know, but I do you you guys have done a great job in the past month. You know, if it's going to be more than 15 minutes before your your next boat comes, pull ahead because I've seen you guys, you do it all the time. Your buyer comes in or your fisherman, he loads his stuff and he says, "Move the truck. I need to use the hoist guys." So, you guys are moving a lot anyways. But, you know, I think that's within reason. But I think it should be a half hour for anyone out there, whether it's me using traps or

I think it's kind of like the pier itself from the boat perspective. Like we don't let the boat sit there forever. And for the same reason, we wouldn't want to let the truck sit there forever. Even though it's convenient for your truck, it's not convenient for everyone else. You know what I mean? like so like if if we let your if we let the lobster boat sit there all the time then you could say well they just have to radio to the other lobster boat to say to move it you know but we want to keep things fluid and moving and in your situation I understand you're saying like well you know someone could get run over because we're moving the trucks twice as often but I mean that's kind of you know maybe you know what I'm saying like you could also say you should drive more safe I mean, you know, so we can go back, but in general, I think the idea is is that we want to keep it very fluid with with you do your business when you need to do it and then we leave it open for anyone else who might need to do business. Maybe no one else needs to do business right now, but it would be awfully nice for them to just not have to deal with you when they're doing their business. And it all falls back on the idea of multiple uses down there and not being dominated by one particular enterprise.

What I'm saying back when you sit there, it's more of a domination situation in our minds.

I I think I it sounds like we're in general on the same page. I guess one one thing that I am nervous about is a short time frame somebody sees the truck not actively buying and potentially reporting it as the truck sitting there and now the harbor committee is getting complaints potentially looking bad on our business potentially a snowball effect could be evaluating these permits and their and the use so it's we like a little bit more security and that's that's why we're why we're here. So I I I think it sounds like you're aware of the situation.

I don't think anybody here wants to get really into a scheduled as long as everybody is on same page about flexible times and stuff. Now they flexible use. We also have vessels that tie up that do work and they've exceeded the half hour. So they'll pull in a truck, do welding, change gear over, swap their boat over. Yeah. That ties up the pier for more time. Yeah. So what I'm saying is that it needs to for everyone. That's it used to be a gentleman's agreement. You did not tie up the pier for more than half hour either side.

And that should be broad for everybody. I think it I think it's more when you get new drivers and stuff like that, you've got to be clear with them what what's suspected and maybe be conscious around that half an hour when the mailbo comes in or leaves all that's going on. Like if you have a boat coming, yeah, sit there. I don't think it's right for a commercial fisherman to tie it up either for a while. Oh, no. No. I I think the way it's written is fine. It just says you can't sit on it. You can't you just can't sit down there and anyone within reason if it's a few minutes or you're loading and doing whatever it's fine the fact that you're here taking ownership of the problem you're you know you're you're not the problem everyone's

heard other people you know I I appreciate being heard and um I think that as long as we can operate where we are expecting a vote smooth things over and I think it would I mean I don't know if you talked as dealers at all. We We're Yeah, we can communicate with them. I would, you know, pass on this discussion with them to them. They're aware of the rule. You've made them aware of the rule, the other dealers. Yeah. And even your boats that you can't, you know, you got to keep things moving. Yeah. We I don't know if we've spoken specifically the other dealers. Um, you're the only dealer that's ever come forward to speak with us about

really one other that's there for any amount on what you guys buy 80% of what's down there. The other three are picking up 20%. So, I mean, you are by far the heaviest user down there. And what I've seen over the past month, you have been doing a good job. Are you the white? Yeah, you're white truck. Black cars. you know, the other buyers have one or two boats. They they show up, they buy the boat, and they're gone because they don't have anything else to wait for. They don't have any b any fisherman to buy from.

I also think that we're pretty, you know, understanding of when something goes once or twice. It's when it's a constant repeated situation. And John's really reasonable about all of this. I mean, you know, and and tries very fairly to judge what goes on down there. So, I I don't think like someone complaining to the board is going to be, you know, the end of it. It's only the beginning of f trying to find out what happened. So, don't feel as though, you know, you're undefensible as soon as someone

No, but when Jim brought it up, he asked for revocation of their license. The last when he brought it up, he said they stayed too long. the revocation of their license. They're a constant offender. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why he that any threatened by him saying that rather than saying, "Hey, let's talk to them." He said, "Hey, they're staying on the dock too long. They should be revocational to license." Oh, you were pretty complain because it was a problem that kept growing and growing and it's now been addressed. But you understand his concern?

Yeah, I do. I totally agree with him. But I would like to put in the ordinance that no one is out on the using the main pier for more than 30 minutes. Yeah. I think we have to actually or what John Forson the rights of privileges or get a fine I mean because I mean it's but we can figure out the or what but I mean but no one should doesn't matter who we are is no one should tie up any part of the main pier for more than 30 minutes. I would ask Chris like if we were buying from one boat takes 15 or 20 minutes. Now there's a second boat.

You're actively buying. That's different. I'm saying just tied your boat up. You're slowly working on that slowly unrigging like I mean there's if if you're not, you know what I mean? There's people that take advantage like we have on every every part of our facility. It's just, you know, you have to be conscious that this is a time frame and there's always been a gentleman's agreement and you know, so it it's actively buying. It's just like if and it's not saying you have to weave back and forth and give you a little wee away as well or the guy loading traps. You know, you have some guys will back the trailer out, right? full of traps, go by themselves, go get their bow, take the time, bring back in, and someone else could the ferry could have been back in or out.

Yeah. And avoid common courtesy for the other user. I'll give you something else to think about down the road. There's not going to be a pier there for about a year. So, I've been paying attention to the harbor. Going to be a big deal. And we agreed to come up with a conveyor system or something to accommodate cargo and buyers. So anyway, on the south pier. Yep. And we're going to open up the two sides of it. So that so that south dock was going to be for loading and unloading only and no more tying up. It's going to be a major change and there's going to be some

a lot of moving parts. you know, as you said, it's m multi-use facility and and I I think there's a strong, you know, sense to keep it a working waterfront. I don't think anybody in the town wants to see that change. And I also think it reflects on us that we are buying 80% of the lobsters down there because of the service and the value that we're providing to our local fishermen. So, I appreciate you guys hearing us out. Another example is I talked to John. We had a big yacht come in and fuel right during the biggest part of the day and they tied up the whole pier. So not just no one could operate for several hours.

Couldn't have been Yes. Exactly. Couldn't have been a worse time of the day. Like you couldn't schedule it before the fairies and the fishermen get in. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. It it it happens on multiple fronts. Busy place. Busy place. We do the best we can. David Graves ever was charged from behind that barge up there all winter by he followed every rule that was ever made.

Could we make does anyone want to make a motion that the main pier should not be moved by be used by anyone more than I think it's an ordinance change. I know but for if we say it now though we might do it down the road. Put it on our ordinance change there. got to be done by the end of November birth because that one I think potentially is an ordinance change. It it there's nothing in here that says that it just What's your opinion on that? Well, it would take away the no part. No, with 30 minutes unless actively buying. Yeah, I think you know, you got to throw that in there just to keep keep it.

It's like the thing we added for no riding the radar may appear. It's that's something we add in as part of our ordinance chain. Very good. Any other old business? I got just one thing. He's not John. Did you look at the ramp over there to had him tell you about the ramp over on the skip off and seal it? No. What's wrong with it? Broken the roller because remember I mentioned about the the bearings been not being lined up. The slowa. Well, you talking about the front pier or the dinghy d?

Oh, the dingy. Well, they're both they're both not lined up, but because that grinds it finally broke and and uh the the way it's made, you got two end plates and a not tubing. It's a little heavy in tubing, but not pipe for the roller and it's ground the the weld off. So, it's broken off. So, now the end plate is chewing up the the doubler that it rides on. I'll go look how you replace it without taking the ram. It's tricky. No, but it needs a new roller anyway. And um it's messed up.

Yeah, the other thing is the I mean they got to be lined up. You can't have have it out of the bearing an inch on one side and and sticking in the arm. It's they're the front pier is in the rollers and those bearings are working. Yes, I know you see one sticks out further than the other, but the way that's made, it will not come out of there because it physically can't. That's right. But that's why the other one's broken, John, because it it's grinding on time to meet me over there tomorrow and show me exactly what Yeah, you have these first thing in the morning and you can show me exactly what you're saying and

yeah, if it's an issue, we will we'll take care of it. They they need to all they need is a set screw. Tighten them up and and if they loosen up, log tight them or something. But that's how those set screws last about two days. I have I don't know how many sets of those I put on there and they do they will not stay that there's so much surge and action from the waves of boats going by from outside. Some of them could be done. I mean they're made stay in place. They were he was gonna or they were going to take pictures of the ones in Bar Harbor which have pent time the surge.

So I don't know if it was you but we're those are couple years away from their uh CIP about that. Yeah. Timeline. So you know that would be the great time to reconfigure and build a new and these ones down here don't roll on a big roller like like that. They have separate wheels on each side. It seems to work really well. Yeah. But these don't get the action. The Seal Harbor action floats, right? They used to be um big big shoes that that skidded with that starboard on. Yeah.

And they work good, too. Um the only other thing is I I see you got new um cleats on, but you still got a half dozen with the with the washers that cut the lines when you tie up. That's what I don't get, Rodney, is I have I bet there's 20 or more like that down here in the marina that have been there for multiple multiple years, and I've never had one boat through a line or I'd like to talk to you about tying up on those cleats for the washers after the meeting. Okay. But we can you can show me tomorrow. But you know, there was there was one over there that had a big washer on it that did stick out a little bit. And if you looked, it's gone. And

it was always There was There was one that had a It might have been That's all I had at the moment. And I had to fix the cleat. Yeah. But we replaced that a week or two ago. And it's got one of those new S cleat. I I saw that. Yeah. You know, Rick had a good idea of how to how to put the right bolt in there. Well, I found cleats that solve the problem. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they're they're quite expensive. Uh, you know, I I just don't them other ones that have smaller washers on them. I don't see how that could possibly chafe a piece of rope cuz

these have been down here for I bet 5 to 10 years. We've had cleats like that down here and I've never had one person come up to me and tell me that their rope shave through. And you know for the 15 minutes or 2hour tie up limit that is on those docks over there. If you can chafe through a piece of rope in 15 or minutes or two hours that the limit is over there. You know I just we can look at it tomorrow and you can show me your complaint with it. But I I think that there's not an issue with those cleats over there. There was one that had a big washer and I agree that that could have done something but right in the same spot maybe that was a one.

But the rest of them all have washers that don't stick out over the edge of the cleat. So it's it's uh I don't see how it could possibly be happy to look. So when when you touch base with me tomorrow morning I'm in the office 8:00. You're okay. I'll call you. touch base with me and I'll meet you over there and uh Yeah. All right. And show me your complaint with the roller. Yeah. And uh we can look at the cleat, too. All right. Good. Good. Very good. Good. There's no other old business. I'll ask to adjourn. Motion to adjurnn. Second.

Move and seconded. All in favor raise your hand. Oppos. Carried. Thank you. Who seconded the motion to journ that was only