Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

Good. Okay. Vote. Um, we're going to call the meeting to order. Um, yeah. First item on the agenda is to approve the minutes of March 11th. I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes of March 11th as written. Seconded. Move and seconded. Any discussion? No discussion. All in favor raise your hand, say I. Opposed. Carried. Okay. Uh we'll go right on to new business and um review the attendance. uh situation you guys have been uh I guess that's in my lap. Uh well, yeah. Okay. It's been going on for a couple of months, right? And I did this, but uh anyway, I thank you very much for doing a summary, I guess. Oh, yeah. So, I guess anyone else wants a copy of that, I got on you. So, uh I think they tried to get yours all squared up. I think everyone got the information by email probably. Y comments from the committee. So um uh my comment is and it's been brought up in uh not public discussion but uh what do we consider attendance that requires attention? Not sure I understand the question.

Well, what is the town's policy for committees? I don't know or I don't know. I'm not aware of any when when we started this several years ago and started doing this I think we discussed it last meeting is we had a committee and you know we were having 50% absenteeism on a regular basis and we would come down for meeting and not enough members to have a quorum so that's when I started doing this and then we reviewed it once a year and some people looked at it and decided that their attendance wasn't good and they resigned. So then we brought in new members and for the most part it's been pretty good here. So basically what you're saying and and I I know what the answer is that it's it's a personal choice. You can be appointed to be a member of the hyper committee if you don't attend or a majority of the meetings. there's no disqualification for them being a member as far as I'm aware. No, it's just between us committee members and it's so and I don't know if that's something that would have to be uh designated by the town or even in our own uh ordinance and uh it was it's been brought up. John and I talked about it. Um does anybody have any feelings? Do we have a waiting list? Yes. I think, you know, if people can't, you know, if they're at 60% or less, you know, at least we could, you know, say, you know, do you still want to be on the committee? And if you do, you need to attend the meetings. And if you don't want to or can't attend the meetings, then please resign and your seat will be filled by somebody who

wants to be on the committee. It's probably a good idea. We We have a person on here that's, you know, absent more than he's here and a lot of them unexcused doesn't even bother to call in. So, uh, and that's the other thing. We do have the excuse process. You know, every one of us once in a while are not going to be able to make the meeting. What I'm going to suggest is that John uh check with the uh town manager see if we should have a committee rule a private regulation or if there's some other way to address this because if we have a waiting list of people who would like to be on the committee attendance is important and uh so okay is does anybody else have anything to Well, I think the I wonder if the selectmen have a policy because they're all always there and I think you have to be in the meetings for continuity of discussion focus. That's what that's what John's going to ask. And also now with Zoom, you know, I was out of town. I took the meeting on Zoom. You know, it's it's a lot easier than it used to be, right? So, uh, maybe you could tell us at our next meeting, John, if there's a rule or regulation or if we want to establish something. Okay. Sure. So, we'll keep this on the table. I think next Yeah. Yeah. Could we uh I mean in June when the cycle usually appoint people, I believe certain time of year. Yeah. I don't I forget. [Music] Um, I would suggest the chairman of the

committee if someone is chronically not here, ask them if they want to resign or when the time comes, you know, in June is a good time to do it. Say I if you want me to do that, I will do it uh in cooperation with John. Yeah. Is that how the rest of the committee feels? That's that's not a bad thing for the people that don't ever show up. You know, we can maybe be proactive and just ask them if they want to just resign. Then give us a chance if they wanted to step off then when you slept when they're in their appointment mode is when they could do it. Then we wouldn't have to. Most all the appointments happen right after town meeting. I'll come down and talk with you, Joe. Sure. Well, I can get the information from Claire on whether there already is something Yeah. on the books somewhere that we could we we could send out a letter or email uh to all the members and because I think it's important if you're going to be on on the committee, you should have a positive attendance record. Yeah. And I think we should once you find out what the towns is, you know, endorse that or and or and then establish our own too, you know, and maybe once a year we go back to this. Obviously, we have some issue here now. Uh we go back to doing this. Um it hadn't been an issue for a while, so I hadn't been bringing it to the committee, but it is now. I guess I don't know if we would have if the people who are on a waiting list if we should just go with the order that they're on or if we could try to have uh a better diversity of the harbors

that we have representative that's up to select like like I'm in you knowsville and I keep a boat in Shs Harbor. There's only two people on the waiting list right now and one of them is probably going to be one of our new selectman so he's not going to be eligible and they're both from Seal Harbor. So that'll give us a little backup. You need backup power. I don't know. I can always use some help. There you go. All right. I'll I'll come down and see you, John. We'll talk for So get back to you at our next meeting. All right. Um, main peer discussion. That's my high high priority. I don't know if we got all these people sitting here for the ice rink. I don't know if you want to take them at first. That's that's fair. All right, let's uh let's do the ice rink. Brian, you asked me to put this on the agenda. So yeah, I'll maybe start us off and just talk about a couple of the things we can cover and it had been I I'll turn the floor over to you for the ice rink. Okay. I think everybody knows me. I'm Brian Nickel, public works director. Yeah, that's Yeah, if you do speak up for the record, state your name, please. Thank you. So, we uh you know, I heard from a few people that they were interested in getting an update here at the department committee relative to the uh tennis court, pickle ball court, and ice rink combination project that we have going on now at the uh next to the chamber of commerce. So, I thought it would be useful to come here and and at least give you an update on on where things are and what's been done towards that project and uh what we're looking at and and try and answer any questions if there are outstanding questions because I know it's an important space for this committee for

people that are working out of these harbors um and just want to make sure you have an opportunity to understand what's going on. And I think the areas that we can cover is we I've got Greg Johnson here. is working on the design of of uh the town of sports and ice rink combination. We can talk about, you know, what our construction schedule is looking like, where design is, what our anticipated timing is for the work that's going on down there. Um, we can also talk about, you know, the fundraising aspect of it. So, we have folks u that did a lot of the fundraising for the ice rink side of it. And then we also have Peter here who's been managing the ice rink. I think we can talk a little bit about the use that's down there. And I think the one other aspect of it is once we do have chillers in place, I think some of the questions were regarding sound levels and where things were going to be, we can kind of address that. So I I do have a question. Are you happy with the attendance, the use of the area? We could start off with that and I'll maybe turn it over to Peter because he gave a little presentation at our last our last one before that about the attendance um which overall I think for the limited days and capacity of the ice I think is pretty good. I'll let Peter speak more likely to it. Yeah. U Thank you. My name is Peter Bronson. I'm sort of operating on a day-to-day basis. Um most of you have seen that maybe um the amount of people that are skating is is absolutely dependent on the on the weather unfortunately and and the first year we had a sort of average year. The second year we never were able to skate in the afternoon I think. And this year we've we've had many many days where we could skate all all day long and into the night because we have uh some some little portable lights down there for a

couple weeks. um the so not a few so let's say um 38 days was on average let's say but this year we've had 60 days of skating and and it's an estimate because I'm not there all the all day long but as far as from what I've seen and the reports I've had from um from some of my my helpers and volunteers I think we've had about 1,600 people down 1600 so that's quite good. And um there's also obviously a virtual side of it which is the Facebook and and uh Instagram reach let's say which is publicity and and in that sense we have uh a thousand followers who check and and obviously there I post whether the ring is open at all and when it's going to be open and when it's reserved for ice hockey and when it's general skating and stuff like that. So, um, a lot of people are checking that and people are sharing it and they're from all all over the state of Maine and also all the way down to Philadelphia and New York and all the summer residents like to check that out. And we have um we've had the posts that I've made, 140 posts, they've had over 60,000 shares and likes and and stuff like that. So, that's somewhat significant. But um obviously the the attendance is not what what I'd like it to be because we can't organize ever anything really. I've tried to do clinics. I've tried to do learn to skate and and learn to play hockey for adults and kids and organize games and it's it's really difficult when when you have to cancel short notice because it's just too warm. So, uh, this is I'm not being critical, but I've seen it when it

could have been good skating and the the the gates locked. So, when was that? When was it? I don't have the exact date, but somebody could have been skating, but they couldn't get in because there was a padlock on the gate. 47 in the morning. Uh, no, it was actually in the middle of the day. Then the ice was not okay. You believe me, I don't think in the last three years there's ever been a day that's been good skating and the ice was was unused. Really? There's It's hard to tell. And if you could by any chance remember the date of that day, go back to the post. No, I I was just surprised that I saw I saw a padlock. Yes. Yes. Yes. know the padlock is is a great thing because what happens is when when the ice let's say it's 31° and the everyone would think oh it would be great we'd skate and the ice looks good and everything they go on the ice maybe the day before wasn't or the night wasn't cold enough maybe there's slough on the ice that you can't quite see and people potentially cut through the ice with their skates they cut the liner water gets out and it's a nightmare so they the fact that we have a fence around it is is key and that padlock stays locked whenever it's but I've I've never missed a day of skatable ice. Well, I've I've just on Rick's note I've made a point of watching and going by pretty much once a day, different times a day. And it just seemed like, wow, it's 30°, it's not blowing a gale, it's not raining, you know, no one's there. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. on on a weekday uh there's some people that come first thing in the morning and then from 10 11 12 it can be totally empty like say at the end of the day when school gets out if there's ice to

skate it's full and I know a lot of kids that come down parents are hanging around town just waiting for their kids to go and many of afternoons and evenings go when it get dark coming in on days that are cold or what when there's when I'd be out fishing there's always someone on if the weather's Mr. I mean those cold days that it's been used and this year was exponentially way more use that I've noticed and a lot more pe and and it's you see people in town just for that. I think it's one of the biggest draws in the off season right now besides a neighbor. Yeah. My name is Sarah Mitchell. I would say uh two things. One I have high school kids who at the end of the day when school will get out we could see who is down there. and high school kids I've never seen in town here coming by at the end of the day to play hockey. Um the other thing that's important about Peter's numbers is I think this year because it was so cold for so long that we saw a huge jump in numbers which goes to show that if we have the refrigeration and we're open all the time that we really will have a great attendance and be able to plan things that we can't plan now because we never know if it's going to be cold enough. And in the middle of the day, I would love to have the PE classes coming down like they have done sometimes, but again, it's it's impossible for them to plan that because uh we don't know if there's going to be ice that way. So, the one of the harder points, what is the what is the decibel? I know we have a limit in this town obviously and that that wouldn't be permitted without it without it violating that. Is that is the compression even close to being at the at the level on you know above the levels or we've all seen some of the data, but yeah. So I think the um the so it's a single compressor. It operates at 90 dB which is equivalent to like a lawn mower if it's not closed and the plan is closed. So it kind of gives you a sense of what the noise is.

Um which we have on all the time. Um I don't know that the town has decame. We don't have a standard. We just have disturbing the piece. Disturbing the piece. Yeah. So actually there is times that have the desk one. I was trying to figure out what it was ex. So um yeah lawn mower is one that I've seen compared to haird dryer but that's if it's not in so there's plan to put privacy fence around it. Will you use sound out as well? Uh we'll look at some products that might be what's it's certainly not going to be on all the time. I mean it only runs when uh it will run in the shoulder seasons quite quite often. But in the middle of winter hopefully we won't need it that often. But I have extra marine sound more to donate to the inside of the case. Yep. Awesome. It was my understanding and I believe our committee was told that this was all going to be done with private funds and now we have a bond issue coming up for $600,000 which will be $900,000 once it's said and paid for. Well, I'll speak to that. It is I'm James Lane. Uh it is all being done by private bonds. The bond issue is for both the tennis court and the rink and the money that's coming from the tabs through the tennis court. I I looked up what it cost to resurface the tennis court and they said it's plus or minus $15,000. Well, you have to ask. And I don't I don't see why you're tearing the whole tennis courts up. I know to put chillers underneath them, but to just take care of the tennis courts, they would just need to be resurfaced. No, those tennis courts are incredibly sloped and damaged. They're

they're needing to be complete. The project always was to completely redo them. We're going to end up with million-dollar tennis courts, and that's a lot of money. Yeah. In fact, one of the things is that the courts slope way more than you should be. I'm not saying it doesn't have to be um professional grade, but it not a professional facility. It loses 18 inches from end to end in places. Um and the reason why they are so variable in surface is of course we know the harbor infills like the water table coming up and down and pulling out. Yeah. And pulling the spines out of it. So if we're going to put money into the tennis work for saying the tennis court, there's a bit of work to do into the base just to make the investment the surface um have some more longevities. um the the way it the poor condition of the courts right now and knowing that the material that's underneath was not stable and that there has been a lot of settlement in that area. The project as anticipated and this actually started before me the way that was conceived when Tony was putting the first part of this forward was that it was going to be a complete tear out in order to stabilize that surface, bring in new material. um it wasn't just going to be an asphalt resurfacing because the asphalt that's down here now is on poor foundation and is in very poor condition. So there there was going to be a fair expense already just just for the way the project was conceived because of the need of having that stability of that sub that soil. I'm pretty sure the original construction was a gift to the town. I I'm not going to mention any names but I that was on the board a select man of those courts. Yeah. Yeah. And there's actually there's a lot of deliberate effort in that base. I don't actually know how long they've been there, but there's been there over

20 20 25 years. There's a really good solid layer of brushed rock. They meant for drainage and that that is sort of plugged and didn't have pipes. So there was a a deliberate attempt at that time to do exactly what needs to happen. So where will it there'll be a new perimeter drain around it? Uh yes. Where will that be tied into? Uh one of the basins in the lawn and that and the courts will be designed to shed. Correct. um courts themselves um actually to have them part of it the courts can be a um pickle ball or tennis court at the same time and they're um sort of a polymer plane surface that allows them to be both control when the chamber used to keep some control over but for at least the last 10 years or they've just been open and questions. Go ahead. Um, so what's the time frame of how long do you think it'll be open? You know, from June to or whatever, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't skate. So, what are you guys planning on? The skating rink will be open hopefully from maybe the end of October, something like that till the end of April. Okay. In theory, depending on the weather because obviously you can have ice with the chillers with 50° but probably any warmer than that is. Okay. So, so pretty much October to May October, December. Okay. Into April and something like that. All right. And then um I know that we've brought this up in

previous uh meetings and it's something that I'm curious about as well is uh sort of the footprint of these chillers and you know and are they going away when you don't need them? You know that kind of thing rather than just being a fixture in the landscape for for permanent. They're they're permanent because they're wired and electrical and they have their footprint is about 16 by 24. The housekeeping slab 16 by 24 is about the area that's that would be enclosed. How tall? Uh let's see 7 ft tall just paraphrasing. Tall than a regular transformer more like a generator. And this is all electric. Correct. Yep. Do we have the power to down there to run something like that? You do. Not necessarily yours. The plan would be that it has to set another transformer that feeds this. So, the transformer that's for the harbor facility um operates on its own. Do we have any projection on how much the electricity is going to cost to do this and who's paying for that? Um not at the moment. Um, if we go into the public forks budget, we have to adjust the budget for electrical use. Could Could you speak up? It's a little hard to hear. Sure. So, that would be the electrical costs would be part of um the I guess either parks and cemeteries or buildings and grounds. One of those would be in the public works budget where we would add for electrical costs for the for the rink. Dr. Harvard the ring. I guess one of the thoughts I have and I think it'd be wonderful to have a skating rink, but my first thought is to

have it at the high school though the high school can have a hockey team and maybe even have Ellsworth use it also. There's been they've been trying to do that for years and never have been able to do that. We envisioned this rink as a community project, a community asset that the kids could go down after school that families could use and um and that's why we originally had it tennis courts. Um that would not be the case if we're the high school. The other part of the community project is as an economic piece. We see people coming in from outside. Maybe they'll start using some of the services in town that are open. Maybe others will stay open in order to get that service. I think it's a it's been a real benefit for the town in our opinion and I think it can only be more another another one of my concerns is and I have skated when I was younger and a tennis court two tennis courts is not a very large area to skate right you know you can't get going very fast and when we were kids you know we're going you know 60 miles an hour backwards because we're young pitch. Two things. First of all, you probably haven't seen some of the hockey play down there. It's extremely fast. Secondly, the high school can't have a team down there because the rink is not official size. So, you're right about the fact that we have half a rink. Half a rink. So, we're talking the difference between a million dollar project down there on the tennis courts, which is not just a million dollar tennis courts. It's a million dollar rink and tennis courts, and it's the only one within 50 miles. So, that that would create quite a draw. But to have a full-size rank with a with a high school hockey team, because you're totally right. I would love there to be a hockey uh high school hockey team on this island, but then you're looking at

a 7 to10 million project. Could we think about an area maybe by uh somewhere else downtown where we could have a full size rink? I don't think it costs that much more money to to have a full size. It's about 10 times the amount of light. 10 times. And you know, to have a good drink, uh, you really need to have a roof over it to keep the sun off of it. I personally don't disagree with you. I would love to have a full, you know, absolute wonderful facility, but that's we we're talking about the difference between really a million dollars and and 15 to $20 million to have a big arena as as I'm not talking about $20 million. Even even the most modest ice rink now costs about $10 million. I don't know where that money would come from, but we're not Well, that's what this one is. A million dollars. 10 million. The other there's another aspect that I'm tie back into the comment you had made earlier um as far as bringing people into the area as we were doing this. The sustainability committee also came and made a suggestion regarding um bringing in a car charger. Right now we have a few car chargers around town. So there's pair at the yachtsman's building. So there's a dual head charger there. There's a dual head charger at the north lot across from Swallowfield. And that's kind of it. Those are level two chargers. And so if you have an electric car and you want to charge it, it's going to be hours of sitting at a level two charger because it's 220 volt. There's a level three charger that is 440 volts. Those are the DC fast chargers or fast chargers that um really can charge a car in a very short period of time. um within an hour, two hours, something to that along those lines.

There are no level three chargers on the island. And so some of the cost that is rolled into that um warrant article is to put a level three charger in that area as well, which I would anticipate is going to have the opposite seasonal use as what the ice rink does because I think most of the electric cars that are going to be coming to use that are going to be here as visitors in summer and not while the ice rink is running. icebergs will be running. I find I find it unlikely that there's going to be a lot of electric cars that come in, but it's one of the other aspects that I think is going to be a draw for the town to be the only level three charger on the island at all. The closest are are in Ellsworth and with people that are coming here with electric cars, they're, you know, that capacity to charge at that speed is is is a pretty big draw. So, I think that'll be another aspect of bringing people into town. um specifically to come and hang out in town for a few hours or go part of that cost of or wander off on a boat for a day while they leave their car on the charger. How you going to control that? Well, you won't be able to control that, but you Yeah, you will be able to set the timing of disconnecting and disconnect. That will be a problem down here. that will we've been in a fight to I mean we just got the police to get like get a handle on the parking down there and then the abuse of it for long-term parking and that will be an invitation for some serious abuse. It'll be a pair of spots so it won't be the matter of like anywhere in the peak time. I mean it's we we had no room. We've just gotten this so we've had a few spots where time still moves out. But I mean it's well something we seriously have to address with I I don't know how if you could signal you know what I mean what how long they've been there and charging but and like this charger up here has never even they not even come close to pay for itself. We don't do enough charging hasn't done enough for it to even cover its cost for operation.

thinking about contin a lot of times I'll go skating down there with my kids and there's other families from Uhill and other areas who have they're trying to do the ponds and southwest and we've gotten out of there and we've gone out to the restaurant and we've met people up there and so I think there's that symbiotic um relationship of people being there to be able to walk around and do stuff and I know we have done that even ourselves several times just by being down there when when they were open. Well, okay. I'm I appreciate the update. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, 16 by 24 is a gigantic building structure and um I mean I don't know but you can't rent a generator truck that can drive away and may just a just like a a work site has the small generators. I'm not saying a small generator but even if you had a great big It's all the refrigerator portable generator. It's 16 ft by 24 ft. The pad for it is the pad is what's the actual size? I think it's 55 ton is the compressor. I don't know. That's a no answer. I was trying to think that the maybe there is a way that you could drive a piece of equipment away. I think the the operational cost of connecting wiring, you really need permanent power. Um, and there's so many things that plug into it besides that being the timers, the temperature controls. So, I'm saying that that's a no. I'm just Well, it's it's also in my mind a huge structure in an area that we've been working so hard to keep green for people to run around with dogs and kids. We we we had discussed at one time going down and doing like stakes so people that had concerns could get a look at

where would be there any chance we could do that again or Yeah, I think we sent something out. I want to go back though on the structure. What are you talking about? Just the compressor. Oh, what are you talking about? Just the compressor because that's the only thing that's taking up new space, right? Well, you said it was 16 by 24 by 5t high maybe. I think it's probably I think they're like those are five and a half to six cuz it's like a bank generator. I mean it's a huge noisy thing. I think that's what most I've heard concerns about is the setting. the building itself. I would have to say it's a fence, but just it' be a fence. It's a it's a screening fence like you would screen in a refuge area. Um so you can picture a 7 foot wooden fence around um that component, not so now it just got bigger. No, I'm saying that that's the pad size and I'm just saying what I heard sounded like it was a building when it's not. It's like a utility pad that's enclosed in in a fence. That's all. How do you sound? Excuse me. I have a question. This is Donna speaking. Um, it it's enclosed with soundproofing, correct? like a brick wall that has sound down on it so that it absorbs the sound because the constant drone would have a large impact on the town and especially the proximity with the neighbors and just people like Story said playing with their dogs and playing with their kids and just trying to enjoy the outdoor um green space. So this is this is an enclosure that's like built of brick or cement and sound. What is it made out of? Um well you can get pre-made ones. The the program so far is to have wood enclosure sound perfect on the inside

but there is um you know it does happen that way. How long would a wood structure like that last and and what would the sound uh absorption capacity of that be? Um I would say we could get some stuff together. The idea is um to have it soundproof and exactly what level you're allowed to get to your STC level. Um that's exactly how it's comprised but is it half or 50 more like maybe it's 60 or 40% of it and there is some like area I mean would we plan in around it as well? Yeah, because whether we have some vegetation there now, if that's where it's going to go, just remove that, put it around it. I guess it'd be nice to for everyone to be able to visualize it. And then, you know, because once we had a building and I get, you know what I mean? And a lot of it is communication like different designs and things. And I think we talked once about going down just marking it out and then seeing it where where it's going to be relative to everything. I mean, there there's areas there that aren't used, you know what I mean, that don't affect the larger usage areas. I would say keep in mind since I was down there almost every day this winter and I could count the people walking their dogs and the kids I on average maybe there's two or three people walking their dogs. I'm not talking about winter. I'm talking about summer because the thing's going to be there in the summer. There's going to be no it's not going away, right? But there'll be no noise. Well, it's a structure. We don't want to get in an argument here. We're expressing concerns about a permanent structure and change and uh I think it's all legitimate. So be nice if we had

some you know stakes in the ground and stuff like that. Uh Steve Pinkham still have a uh I realize it's a lot of money. Uh but the more you can keep the children in the town busy in the long run, it's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than rehab. Um yeah, kind of not anything that we're going to do, but if I could ask the committee and you how come you're allowing kids in there without a helmet? that I've known two people in my life that have died ice skating and to see that going on. Professional hockey players wear a helmet for a reason. Yeah. We're not playing a lot. Someone fall over backwards or forward. Yes. But in in Would you not have trouble playing tennis? That's just as dangerous to fall over backwards. you're you're asking for trouble and the towns is going to have will be liable for it. Um well, we do encourage people to wear that for hockey. I think that we should mandate it, but it is also the town that so policies. I think as far as looks like the I heard the staking out that um there's some options on how that goes and I want to predispose and say this is the best and the pros and cons and I think that we have a a plan that's fairly welldeveloped to have an informed conversation and and maybe stake it out and have this mean maybe look at it beforehand and then we got to construct it another discussion. I think that is it, you know, let's the spaces um particularly around it is limited and some of those factors is that that that

structure wants to be within 20 ft of what it's trying to pull. Um you can get away with that. That's that's the critical point that it has to be has to be pretty close within 20 ft or you get a bigger compressor which is not the right direction you want to go. And so instead of predisposing this is X marks the spot. I think there are a lot of discussion points around the use on where that might best fit. Yeah, I think you need to go down there steak and I mean anything could be screened. It's not going to be used in the summer and in the winter if we want to go down. We can simulate the noise and and view it. You know what I mean? Pick the spot. I'll bring a lawn mower down. We'll fire it up. No, I I'm not trying to be funny about it, but you can walk the various areas where any concerns are and we'll we'll know for a fact rather than we're just speculating and guessing and somehow very much unknown at this time. Well, yeah, I appreciate the conversation here, but we're not um I mean, you're enlightening the group about what's going on. We didn't really have any idea. Um some stakes would be good. So, I'm going to ask that we move on. Okay. Just one thing would we as the committee and all the people involved meet down there at some point? We could before one of our meetings or scheduled meeting or the same as a public hearing, you know, invite it like a a site review. I mean, obviously would have to be before they could pull a permit, right? Yeah. Some kind of schematic showing us what the impact of parents would be. I think you there's there's also the the warming building that you wanted to put in too. I believe we heard the message. Yeah. So just about this data, I think that it's important to have an understanding and and take input before everyone says X marks spot. That's exactly what we want to do. I think that there's a lot of different ways to do things. And part of being here is to have the conversation. And so maybe made sense something out. I had a meeting that you guys already have. We

could meet there, answer questions. If we had to come back here, we could that seems our next meeting is in June 2nd. May I'm sorry. Second Tuesday in May. I'm jumping ahead. Second Tuesday in May. Second Tuesday in May. I think uh uh an on-site visitation before that and we can discuss it in the public. That would be very helpful. Put it right up against the bathrooms in that building and they would we'll I think it's a good I think it's a good point. And uh we got May 13th and then June 10th. Yeah. For meetings. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Uh how we going to arrange a meeting for this? We can uh have a open the meeting down there with a public meeting at Well, I think we should have a I think we should have an onsite inspection. That's what I'm saying. We can have open our meeting down there at 4 or 4:15 and have a 10 or 15 minute thing like we do on the plane and then convene back up here to finish our meeting. That's fine. Let's do that. Just like we did with your boat ride. Yeah, we're not going on a boat ride this time. Well, I'm just saying. Yeah, maybe we should. I would enjoy it. Do we need to have a motion to have a site visit 15 minutes before the meeting? I think that'd be a good idea. I'd like to make a motion to have a site meeting at 4:15 before our next meeting. But we we whole half

hour 15 minutes down there. And everybody's got 15 minutes to get you back up here to reconvene to have a site visit at 4:00 on May 13th. We didn't give them a date. We gave them two dates. Well, I gave them two options. So, they they want that earlier. Okay. I didn't know, but we just gave them to say we just told them May or June. We can communicate. I'll communicate with them. Yes. I I think that's a good motion. I'd like to hear that. Seconded. I'll second it. So site review at 1615. No, 1600. 1600. Yeah. On May 13th and then the regular meeting convenes back at 4:30 here. That's a motion moved and seconded. Now the other only other thing is a rainstorm back. Too bad. We'll worry about that. I know. Rain slicker in the southwest. an umbrella. I'll bring an umbrella. All in favor raise your hand. I opposed carried. Thank you very much. Greg left. I wanted him to stay warm out. We got all my He's coming back in. He is. Yeah. You can talk with me. Oh, all right. You can give him a date then. Well, no, it's not what we wanted him for. It's not what we wanted for, but we really I had a conversation with him today anyways. So, go ahead, John. Something happening out there. Yeah, there he is. Hey, Greg. Greg, do you have two seconds to just give us a quick overview of what you uh your

plan is for our RFQ? Uh, I would anticipate that you would uh first meet your group and um I know we know what the scope is, but we all want to make sure we're clear identifying on exactly what we're asking for. I know what the I know the things they need to do are, but collectively the input. So things need to do are like they need develop and understand existing missions. They need to have geotechnical work done. Um then they then they have a schematic sort of workshop with you guys to develop what it is. That's the RFQ. So basically writing the RFQ but developing with you to make sure it fits what your vision goals are for it. The first step is this is how I think it outlines for the steps of the consultant that's going to design and bid it and you guys say yeah that's what we're thinking and then there's methods of putting that out for solicitation either by which is likely a QBS quality based selection um and then that is either in a form of public or select bid process for um consultant that would do existing conditions design um and estimate and then the the break where they would estimate cost prior to just going out the door. And in that slot um is the meetings with you to make sure it's it's tracking to where and how you want to um rebuild it. And so my my job would be to work with you guys on the onset say this is how it's structured going out to how we select those vendors. Um so what we get back is is what you're looking for and I have a lot of done it for other towns terminal harbor other large projects and say okay here's a way it

can happen but it needs to be catered to how what your expectations are and what your end goals are. And I think that's how I see unfolding. So it's critical for you to be our go because I mean you have all this knowledge that we you know we don't I think yeah in solicitation for them but I think also it's important why consultants once they're getting to that phase that they're integrating u that on the front side when you you retain them that their process has break points in it that keeps you informed so it doesn't go eradicated bring cost or what the final product is to make sure that the contract you sign with them includes those um I would say stopping points but clear defined stages of what they're doing um you don't get all the way down um the wrong path that's part setting that up on the front side of what we're asking them to do is what I could help um you guys coales in some document that we can then use to solicit Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very And you're going to do that for 6,000? You said 6 to 8,000. 6 to8,000. And that's for the whole job with no change orders for me. Okay. Until we solicit them. All right. And then but then are you going to be ongoing after that or does the next engine hearing? I think that's what we talked about a lot of times then account which help us just um stay involved until they are either comfortable with their side representative or say how do we um react to or digest what we're getting or even I'm not saying peer review it's like just like you me that doesn't really work based on this experience or not but helping kind of digest what's coming back mostly what I really see is making sure the communication is clear as

you're going so you end up with a project that's way over budget. You mean like the two peers we did down here? The time was a problem there. But anyways, I think that's the Awesome. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Great. All right. Well, we definitely need the guidance. Oh, yeah. And but I think where we got astray, we we got to be better. This was a I mean these last two projects we've done is pretty shameful. The building looking at the other building, the one that took three the two peers, it took three times as long. I mean, I would hope that, you know, we do a little better job, have more time really holding the people to the fire and what we're doing and hopefully we get a, you know what I mean, someone that's, you know, you know, and have incentives to complete it and we never held, you know, you know, and have it in the contracts, you know, set times with penalties to make it and be enforced instead of just throwing their hands up and being at being at the whim of the contractors so many times. This is a this is a huge deal for the town. So, yeah, it's going to be a big project. It's and we we know ideally it would be done in from the fall to spring and ready for summer, but and I and I've worked with John and we have a pretty good plan of how to accommodate the commercial access and he's already indicated that his main thing would have that. And I talked to Mike Luzetti. He said doing power to the north dock's not a problem running the routes. it's got to be redone anyways. And and then also coming up with a way where, you know, we talked about providing a conveyor which then could be sold at the at the end of the project and then using half of the seafood buyers funds, the licensing fees or we say half those funds to go to that conveyor that year. So we collect we

don't have to hand back or reimburse. We make it capable. So they're still there. We give them a viable option even though I think some of them might go elsewhere. we have a viable option to use the the dock down there and the end of it that the project that can be sold or that can be part of the you know thing that the contractor has to provide. This is for unloading off streets. Yeah. Or going down so they're not sliding stuff down. So they make them they're just a you can either have a belt and they have a stop and you just go back and forth. So we'd basically kick all the skiffs off that dock down there and no more no more tying up on the public dock and that would be used for the ferry to come in, people to load and unload on the other side. You could come talk, you know, dock depending on if they need to get a bargain, what they're doing on the construction, but that would become just a pull in drop off and then the truck could back up and they could use a conveyor right into them. And but I mean some might go to Southwest, but then we're not we can still charge the fee. We don't upset that permit schedule. Yeah. And we just walk in half that money to say, "Hey, this year we're going to put that half that fee to the conveyor, which we can sell at the end. The contractor be responsible." We're still providing that service so they can still come and we're still getting our money from them for the season. Y because that's only part of the season's reduced because when it's done, they should still be in full. Boom. But we don't have to, you know, cut the fee or negotiate with them. are still providing them access and the fishermen pay a fee will have access. Would they be able to unload traps this way too? You could put it up, but I mean you're better off to pull in and throw them off or use another pier, but mostly in that time, I mean, they'll probably go somewhere else to do that depending on the start date, you know, of the construction, which will be determined by the contractor really to make those tracks come in as usual in December. But yes, you would be able to put them on the conveyor and push them just like Yes. Yeah. Well, it's a big deal. So, anyway. All

right. Uh, I'm going to ask us to move on. We got all business ordinance review. Everything in agreement for town meeting best to my knowledge. Yes. Everything's set been sent to the printers is today. Well, yeah. As far as I can't make any changes. All right. Yeah, a lot of lot of information here today. Um, impactive. When do we think I mean three years would we start this again? Well, I know I I would think we'd be damn lucky to get it. Me and Greg have run through it. So next town meeting 26 town meeting is when we would approve ask for approval for the engineering firm to be money to pay them would be accepted. They would have all of 2026 they would have a sometime in 27 would put out to bid for construction to happen. So if they put out to bid during 27, it would be approved at town meeting of 28. Construction would start in say November of 28. You're going to be around. That's probably that's the timeline where we're at. And we actually we could stretch to 2029 before construction and still be within the window that the uh GEI the company that did the survey for us which would be our choice for the engineering if possible they did a excellent job. They have you know a good background. Uh they're actually the company that uh

does the uh radaring that we're looking at for Seal Harbor. They uh they're the ones that did that over in Bar Harbor. Um so just remember that this one was built in six months. Our anticipation is to hope, you know, someone like Chimbro or a huge company like that, they might even pre-build the the pier itself and just bring it down and set it on the new pilings and everything in one or two pieces off. So, we don't need to limit the weight of the trucks that go on there now. No, there's some nice chunks missing out of there. Yes. superficial raing it up to what we're doing. I think we need to raise it two or three feet and get the width that we can do the do away with the width of those big like rail times that so our width is that much. Yeah. And then we'll get a walkway down the middle that's going to keep people from going over the edge. Well, no, we can go we can put railings on the side of that. Okay. So, because that's part of the footprint. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? But we'll use we'll use our whole footprint and then on that side of that cuz the pylons on the outside, right? So the footprint's going to go on the side of the pylons. That's what they're considering. So we go over that and then we can just have a railing on the side of that. So the pylons aren't hopefully not fastened this. It would be nice if they could prefab that just I would assume most dogs for the expansion. So your weights, you know, the solid you have rest and they have a gap in between them and some allow drainage. Some also allow for expansion and they're sectionalist like the manet I mean the southwest upper t lower town dog that they redid. You'll see the sectional components and that's you know part of the one we have as other than draining off on its own. There's no drainage. Water just sits

there with the and what really hit us is when they were spraying for a while. We're using the calcium spray and they back the tanker truck down there and they just spray it before a snowstorm or icing and that's when it really blew it apart and then once that once the and nowadays they have different concrete and the rear the rebar inside of it will be probably a galvanized something that won't corrode. So once that once oxidation started in the rebar that starts popping the process and that's you know what I mean that's where it kind of got as exacerbated the problem. Go to straight carbon fiber get hit by if you're going to go up we're going to need new ramps too there's no way they sure new ramps the ramps are are timed at the same time that the pier is happening. So 28 29 I have uh CIP money we've been putting away for 30 years to well not for longer than they we that'll be all part of our discussion and new ramps are already the money is already sitting in our CIP accounts to buy new ramps. So, we have money tied up and the best that I went met with John has some pointed questions about the budget confusion. Basically, we can afford comfortably, we determined that we could afford $200,000 a year in payments for this and have $800,000 to a million dollar to put down towards being conservative. Correct, John? That was our estimate. I think on the current one we have I think when it started we were paying $236,000 a year. 100,000 bond payment and $136,000 in interest. Obviously now the bond payment is still 100 but I think the interest is down to like $30,000 because it was all frontloaded like any loan. So you know we also make almost double what we made when we

originally did that. We were making roughly 600,000 a year back in 2011 12. We probably make somewhere over 1.2 this year or the fiscal year. It will end in June 30. Very good. Anything else? John, um I mentioned to you about the way they run the W from the power to the crane. I had that discussion with MCM and and expressed our concerns the way that chafed off and they were going to they're going to run across through the uh PVC pipe that is at the beginning and uh come along the other side is the discussion I had the other day. They've already they've already hooked everything up. they've run. Hopefully, well, the uh the one that they ran last year was still there. Yeah. Have they run new? No. So, it's already chiefded off. No. I had a discussion three weeks or a month ago with Andrew at MCM that, you know, the way that that was run was not adequate and it wouldn't last and it needed to be run and he needed to utilize the the PVC pipe that goes underground and uh and try to come up the other side to the hoist and then over to the the light. Well, you you might want to mention again because as far as he's concerned, he's all done. and they're just waiting for the hydro the immune to to hook it up. Well, I I'll go over and look again tomorrow and and see and if that's the case, I'll have a discussion with him. But, uh I was told that barring any problems uh by the middle of this month that power would be back on. And they were supposed to have done as much as

they can to make sure the hoist is going to be functioning. Uh but obviously they're limited until they turn the switch on. No, nobody has checked it, he needed it or anything. I I asked them to do anything and everything they could without electricity to make sure that it was going to function and they said that they would do that, but ultimately until they flick the power on it and and do it, they may or may not. But I did tell you I do have a spare motor in my office. So, you know, and I I've told Andrew that, too. So, so where is the power of how are they going to hook up the the toilets when they when they back it in? The the toilets that obviously they're going to pour a pad similar to where the old one was. Uh the toilets are actually sitting at the bus garage now. They're actually really nice. Uh I pushed Brian to get two handicap ones because it it was provided a lot more room in both of them. Uh they're going to have a temporary type pedestal hookup. Uh and the same for the water. They they both have sinks and flushable toilets. So that power is not going to go underground to it. It's going to go really it. Yep. The power will go over and and be on some sort of a pedestal type hookup and they'll hook into them every year with the water and the sewer and the uh the power. And so they'll have to set another pole Not that I'm aware. No. No. They'll uh they'll run power like it used to be run. Well, it did. It used to go across. They may decide to I'm not sure exactly what they've got planned for that now that I think about it, but they will be a temporary hookup. They'll be able to put them over there with the forklift every

year, plug them in or wire them in every year and they have electric lights, electric fan, and you know, running water in them. So, they should be they're really nice. And you stop by the bus garage sometime, they're sitting right in there. Yeah. Yeah. And the last thing you mentioned, the alt design. Did you say that was done? No, it hasn't been done. Right. It I mean you've been over there that that not cold but drain that is some even more open weather. Are you talking in the parking lot? Yeah. Yeah. See my concern is our concern for the harbor committee always stops right at the where the pier turns into the parking lot. Uh I thought you've always been asking me to have the pier itself. You want the whole parking lot but no the whole thing. I thought so the conversation I had with RFI which is that company I was only asking them about the pier that's the main thing I'll I'll get with Brian I'll ask him tomorrow because uh the parking lot itself belongs to the highway department or public works. So, that's really not in our uh we don't, you know, put money aside for that parking lot, but that's like the polar toilets or public works. Yeah. All right. But I'll I'll check with Brian and tell him that I thought your concern was always just pier. Well, it is, but I I just let you know that's that's Oh, yeah. So something I mean we know where nobody will really have what they're going to into. Yeah. Okay guys, but hopefully all well the light should be on the middle of the month. That's what I was told by MCM. The invoices came.

Anything else? Motion to adjurnn. I make a motion to adjourn. Second. Seconded. All in favor raise your hand. Carry. Thank you. Who second German? I did. All right. I