Harbor Committee - Regular Meeting

recording in progress. Okay, we'll call the meeting to order. Um, first item is to approve the minutes of January 13th, 2026. Move the minutes of the last meeting. Motion seconded.

Move and seconded. Any discussion? Okay. All in favor say I. Raise your hand. Post. Carried. All right. Tonight's meeting is mainly to concentrate on the proposals from Gartley and Dorski. And I see an item here that John just wrote down. Diver Ed would like to be uh named a moing inspector. How many does that make for us?

I would say between divers and I would say there's between eight and 10. So let's any discussion about having diver as an additional inspector you I think he would be excellent I like if he inspects a moing we say he's an inspector who does that fall back on if it's no good and I don't nec I mean Ed anyways I just I think it falls back on the owner because if he inspects a moing tells you it's no good you got to think well no but if all right if he says it's good and then it's not good I think that's on him and his insurance. I think Jason Chapman now the barge car. He's quite a Yeah, I'm sure Jason does to cover

cover himself. I didn't know if these other people we I would think Jason wouldn't you know like Stevie and stuff like that. Yeah, that'd be a touching one though. I mean, you know yourself if the mooring might have faults that aren't even visible. I think it's part of the game. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. Is there any expense to the town of Winningington? Just it says in the thing that he has to be approved by you guys and he's all he's moring all the but that's true of any person that would expect

but it's not like we have to Yeah, I agree with Donna. Okay. Motion to approve diver second. Move and seconded. All in favor raise your hand. oppose. Okay, thank you. He's having trouble. He said he he he can't log in. I don't know. I don't I told him we don't see him here. The p participant down there. No participants, just us right now.

Okay, John, I'm going to kind of turn this over to you. Uh we got communications from uh uh our engineer and Gartly Andorowski. They have quite a proposal here quite detailed. So of course our goal is to approve you want a copy that Rob approve their proposal which we will vote on and and then make sure that uh gets on the town warrant for acceptance at town meeting. So I'm going to turn it over to you John.

Sure. I don't know if you guys have had a chance to read Greg's take on it. I like I said, this showed up by email about a half hour before our I came up here to get things going for our meeting and uh I've came through it. Greg has been working with them uh for the last four or five days getting this prepped. So, he's been giving them uh ideas and and getting it straight uh back and forth a few times. And he had a chance to read through this real quick. And um essentially, it it's about $74,000 more than what we originally got when we took the proposals then by bid. Uh but as we went through this, we've added I can get in. Sorry to interrupt.

Nope. Somebody had to speak up. Thanks. Uh,

so basically it's about $74,000 above where we were originally, but with the added uh things, Greg thinks it's completely in line with what uh what it should be. And as you can read is obnoxious. I think uh it looks like a good package. It's going to get us what we need. Uh I think they truly understand how involved you guys want to be in the process and that's part of some of the rise in costs, the extra meetings and stuff. But I think it will get you guys full involvement in the building or design process and hopefully get us the best product that we can get for our money. I think our goal as a harbor committee is to be unanimous in uh support of this u because I I don't know if there's going to be opposition but there may be a town meeting but uh this is a major project that bigger than the town has undertaken in the almost ever for one project. So we've been involved totally right from the get-go. Uh we're looking at maybe a 2 or 3 year lead time and uh if you've got any questions or topics you want to bring up, this is a good time to do it. This is what we want to send to town meeting. Seems like some, you know, some of these look redundant. Of course, I'm not, you know, some engineer or something, you know, but there's, you know, schematic designs by G&D and then there's the construction documentation final plans kind of seem like they would be somewhat in the same, but

that's why we took Greg on as a in between to let us know that everything is on the up and up and because it's over my head, you know, $23,000 for wave analysis and sea level rise modeling. That just seems strange. Yeah, we know we we know it's sea level is going to rise and we know there's waves. Know why we have to model it. We're raising it up three feet, right? Don't know. Not 100% sure there's a range. might have been. I think a lot of those waves, you know, going up seven feet.

We don't know where we are. We're hoping no more than three or four, but that's part of what that's for because we're building this to last another 75 to 100 years. You know, we don't have a clue what's going to happen. And that's what that is probably for to determine best guess scenario on making sure we get it right. Wouldn't think it'd be more than 75 years for this thing than the last, especially the way things go these days. That's what it says in the in the summary is that 75 years is what the goal was. Like the last one lasted 75 years.

I think if we went over 3 ft, you know, that would start to get pretty awkward for that ramp would have to come way back. You know, if you go up to five, six feet, that's going to really be awkward. It's awkward when you're underwater three feet too though. So that's why when it's underwater then you know maybe a truck shouldn't be on it. I don't I don't think we'll have to worry about it. You know they're three feet in our lifetime. There's that. Any other comments? That's kind of I think that's kind of what we have Greg for again.

Yeah, absolutely. We really This is Yes, you need that. Is Greg going to stick around? I mean, originally it was Greg was going to get us through this process and kind of step off, but he's going to stick around through the whole I think we tried to send a message last time we were here that we needed him at our last meeting through the whole building and everything. Greg is an in between. That's what I know. We have faith in Greg when he's here. We don't know the Gotautlyski people, but he is a supporter of them and uh I don't see how we can do it without it.

I'm just wondering what your opposition or your what's coming here. What's the goal? Like you bring up a lot of issues, but what's your goal? My goal is I don't want to have to t have the town spend money doesn't have to. Well, that's my goal in a lot of these things. Okay. But you understand the town is spending zero dollars. What do you mean the town is spending zero dollars? This is going to be two or$3 million project. What What do you mean?

Completely funded by the people who pay the the harbor. Well, what you're saying is there's no tax dollars uh being used right now. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yes, but you know, we will be taking out a bond pay for this. This this isn't free. I don't know why you're saying it's free. No, it's not free, but Okay. It's uh there's there's no town money actually being spent in the end. That's what I'm trying to say. There there will be. In theory, the marina will pay for it. You won't pay for it and I won't pay for it.

I mean, we will because we're all town and it's our thing, but it's its own thing. So, in theory, right, it shouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. Yes. Right, John? Right. Yeah. Well, last project didn't. And designing it properly can probably save us some money in the future also because this thing doesn't stand up. Feels ill to me that you're so concerned about it. That's all.

Um well, if we do our job right, we'll be building something that's for future generations. None of us are going to enjoy it, but it should be built right. Right.

It's I I suspect that if it's in these plans, I think they are legitimate uh engineering companies and designers. Um we have no choice but to go along with it. It'd be nice to save some money here and there, but uh 23,000 uh on a 2.5 million is uh like less than 1%. So, you think that's a realistical figure that would come in under 30? No. No. I think it's going to cost us more.

I would say five could be the upper limit. Yeah. How much did it cost last time to build this rock? As best as I can tell, the whole project cost $750,000. I put that into the, you know, 1960s $700,000. Well, it was 1954. Oh, okay. Well, I said, you know, I didn't know exact numbers, so I put in something roughly like that. And I said, what is that in today's dollars? Yeah. And they said 8 million. So I would expect that this project would cost 8 million to be realistic bas based on what we got previously.

One of the five people that put in requests to do this for us gave a number and theirs was four to six. Yeah. Yeah. So I I mean it doesn't seem unreasonable is all I'm trying to say based on what it was 50 years ago or whatever it was 1954 and what they spent then and if we put that in equal dollars today it seems like a reasonable amount of money to say roughly the same. Do we generate enough that we got to do it? It's not like we can't do it. Do we generate enough money down there to

Is it going to be two million or three million? You generate enough money down there that if we if it's six or eight million that well today's intake. No, we do not. If it comes in six or eight million, we do not generate enough money to pay our normal bills and the bond payment on. So then it will cost the taxpayer money and we already fees have to go up at the that's where grants and other options like that are going to come into play. uh pulling on the heartstrings of our wealthy. Name it after a nice local summer person. Yeah, that's a guy. I like that. It's all conversations that I've already had with the town manager.

Yeah, we could have another bench down there. There is a potential that for the first number of years that the town would have to help us with the bond payment, but that money would be calculated and repaid back to the town by the marina at a later date. So, we've had multiple conversations on what if if this comes in at six or eight million dollars, how much could we withstand? And so, we are already working on that. But, thanks, John. We're a couple years. Yes. And Alex has been a big pusher with me trying to figure this out because he's really concerned, too.

And those are some of the scenarios that we've worked out. And obviously until we get these guys to start giving us some sort of an idea where they think it's going to be which is built into this for them to give us guesstimates. You know we really won't know. If it was a two or three million bond I think the marina could withstand it with no trouble. Six or eight. The irony of it is that the longer we hold off on this more it's going to cost. Yeah, absolutely. Because REI that did the survey for us in 2020, Yeah. they gave us a two to 2.5 guesstimate back then.

Yeah. Right. So, and that was precoid. Yeah. So, we probably can almost double it. So, that puts us in the four to five million range. Yeah, it it's hard for us to talk about um the money pie, but I I think our real goal should be about the uh expediency and the quality of the project. I think that's what we should really concentrate on.

That's one thing I was just going to ask. Is there been any indication that they can do tear it out and put a new one in during the winter? REI told us that it was very doable to completely pull that and replace it in the o late October to end of April time frame as long as we don't have a terrible cold winter because they'll have to pour cement. [snorts] But normally speaking, probably 1954 they might have had a worse one than we're getting out

maybe. Um anyway, I I know we're all committed to this project and I think we're working with a good group. I would like to see a proposal to accept U Johnson's uh recommendation that we um adopt Gartly and Doorski's proposal or I'll make a motion to accept their proposal since meeting. Okay, is that seconded? Donna made the motion. Seconded. Any discussion? All in favor raise your hand. Say I

oppose. Thank you. What about uh Greg? We have him on some sort of retainer or this is what this is part of. Greg is going to be built into this. Okay. You guys voted last meeting to keep him involved through the whole process to be the in between. So he's he's in this budget right here. Describes who actually does the work. Is it a committee or is it No, these are the designers, engineers. We don't know who's going to do the work. It'll go out a bid. Yeah. I mean, it would be I would think it'd be um the best to have a big something like Kimbo or somebody that can come.

Oh, well, yeah. I mean that's our hope but that we we've had proposals from uh examples of their work going on you know within the last 5 years. They're they're building some bigger projects and we're going on down here and and expediated like you mean it. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Our time frame is very generous and this may be coordinated with the Clifton Dock project which I understand's a major major project too. So Gartlet and Dorski did the fleet and now they're doing Clifton. Oh yeah.

So and that like you said that one's going to get raised seven feet. So when you drive down past the fuel tanks there it's going to be that level. Well, when when we were down there, when they were talking about five feet, they were talking about going out and taking that one parking spot. So, seven feet might be what? Another parking spot for them down at Clipton. Oh, we haven't looked at Look at We don't do three or four feet what we're hoping for

because I think we're higher than Clifton is now anyways. There's, you know, even during before the big uh pushup of all that water, Clifton was had water lapping through it before we got the surges. Yeah, they're more exposed. Oh, just keep in mind that this is all uh uh to be at the May town meeting and it's a big deal. I mean this is opposition at meeting which I don't expect but the money for this is just coming out of our this is going to be paid out of but we have to it has to be approved at yeah yeah but

und designated fund we have the money sitting there to pay this so okay anything else on the agenda tonight yes but just me before we this letter of Gregs and this is a communication to Gartly and Well, the the first page is strictly to you and me. Okay.

Right. But he he's talking about it, but uh what is recognized through communication with the harbor committee and I assume that through the meetings we've had with Gartly uh Gartly and Dorski is that they recognize the committee really cares about the harbor. I thought, wow, for them to say that stand out, they they probably dealt with a lot of hardware committees. I'm not sure but uh really cared about the harbor and expect very detailed communication and coordination through the design option phases. I thought that was a good statement to be proud of.

Well, everybody here is a part of the maritime community. So, yeah, we do care about it. Let's let's do a good job. I thought that was a great statement. All right, John. Next.

So, the two other things, this uh draft article from Greg to be what is going into the warrant to be able to approve this. Granted, it's missing the number and I think the account number needs to be changed, but this is the basic language for this to go to town meeting. This still needs to go to Patrick Lions for uh commas and a few little word changes to make it 100% legal. But what's the number going to be in there, John? Not to exceed. It's going to be a not to exceed number. It will have a contingency built into it. Okay. Uh

that will cover Greg. Oh, thank you. that will cover Greg and if anything unforeseen comes up that these people haven't foreseen that needs to happen as a you know a backup contingent. Anything else? I need you guys to vote and approve on this basic Warren article. And then the other Warren article that I sent you that Patrick has already dotted all the eyes and cross the te's. I think be good if you guys would approve that too.

Okay. I'm going to put a title on this as proposed warrant article from the house committee. Okay. because there's no title on that page. So, we have a motion. Do we put an amount on this before [clears throat] we This is just a draft. Just Just a draft. Okay. I don't have the final number yet because it has to be the contingency added to it and built into it to include Greg's cost number yet.

I'll make a motion to approve this draft. as as written. Second seconded over here. Any other discussion? Okay. All in favor raise your hands say I oppose. Eric. Thanks. And I'm assuming you all had a chance to read the final product for your ordinance changes that I sent you. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. Did you see I I put it all in one sentence there. One sentence is always good. All right. I think we came up especially if it's a long run on one. I like those.

I think we came up with exactly what all the committee wanted and it was a misunderstanding on my part of of how many openings there were at the beginning when Rick explained. Okay. That one is ready to It's already actually been sent to player for a placeholder, but it is finished product ready for the warrant. So, I'll ask for a motion to approve the proposed changes to the warrant. I mean, the ordinance. Make a motion to change the changes to the warrant. The additional additional seconded.

Okay. Any other discussion? All right. All in favor raise your hand. Say I car. Yeah. Oh, I think there was no that was it. Who made that motion? Yes, that's me on that one. Yeah. And who approved? And who second it? Oh, okay. We got that. Okay. Good. Good job, guys. I think we should make a motion to recognize our assistant secretary for her good job she did tonight.

I think this was worth all that. [laughter]

All right. Thanks, Sto. It's good to get you It's good to get you off my back. Got a question. I I've had the report for the ultrasound with Seal Harbor for a couple of months and it's really hard to read. I have I talked to uh Brian Hkle about getting the guy he he wanted him and I to go over it and have him explain it to us, but I suggested have him come here and explain it, but I don't know how to can he just show up. How do I So,

give me a second. So, I have scheduled a meeting with me and Brian and him over Zoom to get our first initial breakdown of it from him. And after we get that, me and Brian are going to make the determination and see whether they would do something through Zoom for this committee, but we're getting our first It's either this week or next week. I have to look at my account. It just happens. Oh, okay. Good. And I was on vacation last week. So, I called him last week and I never got a hold of him. I called him today and I didn't want to.

We have our first uh whatever you want to call it between Benja and me and Brian sometime either this week or next week. You tried to read it. I It's over my head. No, the thing that stuck stuck out to me was having those areas that were detected and and that that's the problem with that because Bar Harbor had the same thing done to their pier through the same group and then they went and had construction come in and dig these spots and they found nothing really. Bar Harbor actually leaned us towards not doing it because they thought it was a waste of money. The guy that was doing it told me that Barab was worse.

Yeah. and they didn't find anything when they actually went and did the digging. So, but we're having that meeting sometime either this week or next week. I I can't see my calendar at the moment, but it is scheduled for a video call between me, him, and Brian. Who is the guy? His name is I brutalize his name. It's Van something. They're from New Hampshire. I will say, you know, I do see like some sink holes, but that could all be surface. I don't know. I mean there is they're forever patching and he actually detected where there had already been patches things like that. That's moving. Yeah. Great.

Okay. Motion to agend. Second. Second. All in favor raise your hand.