City Council - Regular Meeting

But um you know I I really don't think we kind of have an ideas problem here. I think I think we we've got we've got a standards problem and and uh for too long our standards have been too low uh in my view. um when when I walk around and and look around and it's and and I admittedly it's getting better, right? um because I think we're incre we're we're we're we're increasing our standards but um you know when our streets are dirty and and uh basic issues just sit for too long and um and expectations are not consistent and we don't send clear messages and are just not serious about our environment um it suffers. So, um, you know, and and if we're not serious about our city, then no one else is going to be. Um, and like we did this opportunity tour yesterday, and and one of the things I said on that tour was, you know, if if if a if a city or if a [clears throat] city doesn't look like if if a city doesn't look like a place that that we care about, the city cares about, then why why is anybody else going to care about it? and and certainly they're not going to want to invest there. Um so um this idea really isn't about you know new programs. It's just about um you know raising our standards and and and doing doing the basic things every day at a high level. Um so if we you know because if we ultimately we raise our standards and and we and we enforce those standards um everything else gets easier and and um and if we don't it doesn't matter what we do. Uh nothing else is going to matter. So this was really fundamental for me.

I would certainly like to see us equally enforcing standards. Um, I sometimes think we pick and choose who we site for what and I have certainly seen the city site property owners for graffiti, but I I certainly know lots of places where there is graffiti on city-owned property or or you know our partners like this the state or the county. So, I think that I am I am with you on that. We should have a high standard for making sure things are clean and look nice and we need to hold ourselves to that as well.

My turn. I agree. Um I but I would like to say because I think our city workers do a great job

and they do have their hands full. Um I I never want this to seem like we are coming down on them because we're not. Um and I do appreciate everything they do. It is a lot of work but I I do believe also we do h we have a standard and you know we are the flag staff university. We have the two largest hospitals in the state um and uh mental hospital as well. So we do get a lot of visitors to this city. Um and I think it should reflect that. Uh, I was actually just talking to councelor Hollings head, sorry, Jody, and we were discussing, you know, some of the do roads. And what people in the city don't seem to understand is well, I'm just guessing here, 75 80% of our roads are stateowned and statemaintained. So, I thought it was important to do an initiative last year to to do the entrance ways into our city. And Jody and I just discussed the Dawn Knots Boulevard because we found out they're only going to be able to mow it twice a year.

Mhm.

We all know that's just not acceptable. So, we're working on plans to take care of it ourselves and safety is a big issue when you're on these uh main routes. But it, you know, our my union guys and that volunteer, we found that out last year doing the entrance way into 155. So anyway, um I do want to say that um we we have got to raise our standard as far as uh the letter um the appearance of our city. Um just want it to be something something that everybody's proud of when they come here. Um, and I know there's several council members here, Danielle, Jody, um, Joe, myself, Jenny. I mean, I've pretty much seen everybody, Mark, out. Um, that put a lot of time into this. Uh, so if we can get some help, that would be really appreciated. So, but thank you for bringing that up because I think that's a huge issue. So,

um,

um, so I think if we're going to have high standards, and I think we've already had fairly high standards, we have a certain amount of budget and a certain amount of people hours. And so, um, if we want to make sure that we are as cleaned up, neatened up, mowed It's going to take some partnerships. Um, so if the state says they're going to mow two times a year, we need to know when those two times are and we need to build around that. We don't take anybody off the hook because we don't have an unlimited budget. We just cut out of a meeting when we're talking about how how many people would like to raise uh taxes. I think if we um and we're stretched pretty much to the limit on what we can do. So, if we can bring in partnerships, uh just make sure the state does what the state says they're going to do. We decide how much we can do and what we can do and what we can't do. Um we look to um the school district, we look to MUB, we look to the university, we look to every partner we can possibly wrangle about how we can make things as neat and clean as we possibly can. I walked down to the park um the other um weekend or no it's weekend during the week during the week and there were mub employees and downstream strategy employees all cleaning up in Kreps Park and they were cleaning up off the state right ofway that whole bank um like across the street from the coliseum. They were cleaning that all up that had been cleaned up on that side for years. The other parts had been cleaned up and they cleaned up in the stream. So, it was a whole whole another level of clean. It

was great, but we're not going to have enough funding on our own to all of a sudden have a renaissance for cleaning up. And we have a lot of groups. I know that um different people here have led large cleanup groups, many, many weekends. We need that plus more plus more than what we can do. So, um, if we could look toward and graffiti may seem like a small thing, but graffiti is an indicator also and and if we're not stepping up on city properties, we need to. So, we may need some new initiatives if we want to up our game, but we need to make sure that we're not loading down the city budget and we need to make sure we're bringing in partners. That's my bill.

Thank you. But it councils have had different times when we didn't like them on the sidewalk, when we really cracked down on graffiti. I think we need to just keep having that cycle and getting better.

I'd like to just respond to a couple things. Um, and and we I'm glad you mentioned gateways. I think that's that aligns with something I wanted to another topic I wanted to talk about later but hugely important um [clears throat] Jenny partnerships another topic um Danielle consistency absolutely I you know uh and and in terms of priorities I mean I think I I think you know our budget is a value statement and and I and I think um so there should be some consideration that we put into you know how how if this is a a big economic development priority for us how we fund it. Um but to we can't do everything absolutely um and I don't think we have to but we have to set the example. Uh if we set an example um I think we seen it we've seen it in Morgantown for you know we we set the example we get out there we work hard we see new faces showing up every time we do things. So um it's you know a rolling stone you know kind of thing. So um

snowball yes snowball correctly you know just to say that I have noticed we are getting a lot of groups uh I I want to say the chamber of commerce um I've noticed WVU there's a lot of people stepping up because on the boulevard coming down the boulevard there'll always be plastic bags and garbage that kind of blow up against that medium and I've noticed lately there's orange bags I'm like doing that. I didn't or my group didn't do that. Yeah. Caring's contagious.

Exactly. So, I'm finding out that there are groups uh church groups as well that are um you know, just if you start seeing yellow bags along our main routes, they're picking up litter as long as well as the uh you know, the WVU uh I call it Eagles Nest, our ROC program, things like that. But um so it. I think it is contagious. I [clears throat] think people are Do we I'm sorry I interrupt. Go. No, you're good. Do we offer uh vests and garbage bags to all these groups that are looking to Yeah, we do. And a lot of them are using the tool trailer for their community cleanup events.

So, I think in terms of like an educational standpoint, it would be beneficial to make sure that people know that in the event that they want to organize these opportunities amongst themselves and their groups if we could if you could help us find a way to allow them the opportunity to sign up and at least be provided the supplies necessary considering the amount of manpower and time they would be saving us on our budget uh in terms of safety vests and garbage bags at least. And if I may add to Joe's, um, the DO on Grafton Road, you can sign out pickers, garbage bags, vest, and signs.

Mhm. Depending on each project, and you just return them when you're finished. And they'll give you a box up to a hundred. Last year I received 500. So, um, we used all but one last year. So, you might want to add that into it as well. Cuz I know that I'm always struggling with the initials. Moto. Yeah. Moto cuz I think of the cell phone. Moto. Um, [clears throat] town tool outach. Yeah. But [laughter] it was the commercial from the '9s was Hello Moto. Hello Moto. Yeah. So that's that's why I have to I have to go all the way back to No, don't say that. [laughter]

Now we're going to be stuck. It's my the glasses is what's killing me. Um, but I know that they have the tools and stuff, but that can be overwhelming, especially if you're just looking for a bag and a few vests.

I do want to shout out Caitlyn with development services because they did um she made it super easy for me to arrange for the moto to be at the South Park cleanup and it was super easy. She only brought what we asked for and what we needed, so it wasn't super overwhelming. Um, she was a great touch point. Now, that's a lot easier because I'm a city counselor, right? The average person might not find it so easy. So, that's a good point. We want to make it as accessible as possible because they did a great job. Yeah. what whatever we could do on our website to make it obvious anything that we do for referring to other other places like if at the Division of Highways has items or um to our own tool trailer and I just would like to point out that that tool trailer was a an employee initiative. So when we're talking about how um important this is to us, I think if we bring other people with us or sometimes we're taking the lead off of um our own employees who have, you know, developed that and saw that as an important um component in a city government. So uh but just not to weigh it down with too many budget items, but make sure that we're organized. I think I would also add a lot of volunteer groups, especially with like high school and college kids, they need someone to sign off on those volunteer hours. I would volunteer to sign those forms if they need it, if any of them are watching.

[laughter] But additionally, I know that so like I find our website where there's a volunteer page just uh other ways that it might be able to entice people because I know I have former students at the college that need volunteer hours. And so if they were able to go to our website to find an avenue to do it and get those hours signed off, I'm sure we could. It's a good idea

benefit from that. So, um, just to for my my last thing I want to say about this and and I should have said this sooner, but, uh, but Jenny, yeah, I mean, to your to your point, anytime or we used to your you were the one that brought it up. I I agree. Staff staff's doing staff's doing a great job. And you know, I'm a big believer in Deming as a management philosopher and you know, one of his sayings that I really embrace is that people are always trying their hardest. It's the systems that are failing them, right? So, um I I think you know, we've got systems issues. These are these these these criticis if if there are criticisms here or it's being read that way, that's what they're intended to be. not not criticisms of people. Um so I just want to state that plainly plainly and clearly. Uh from a policy perspective, one of the one of the ideas that um that uh you know, I've been bouncing off Jamie this week is around sidewalks and and um uh you know, just sidewalk maintenance and uh not necessarily in terms of uh reporting or anything like that, but you know, we've got we've got policy on u on snow removal for sidewalks, but what about um you know businesses that have uh operations that are conducive to making a dirty sidewalk. Uh you know where is the responsibility lie for them to maintain that sidewalk in those cases? Uh, for instance, in um New Orleans was one of the places that I looked and you know, I'm familiar with um on like on on Bourbon Street every morning, you you're

going to see shop owners and business owners out there with hoses hosing down their sidewalks and and and cleaning them up and getting ready for the day because that's how they that's that's how they make their money. Nobody's going to want to come to their nobody's gonna want to patronize their business if it's if it looks nasty outside, right? So, um we should have similar I think we can we've got the opportunity from a policy standpoint to consider um consider alternatives like that. Uh whereby we set expectations that you know if you you're ultimately as a business owner, you're responsible for maintaining that sidewalk. you know what what's on that side, you know, let's keep it clean. It helps everyone, you know. So, uh,

what do you think about doing a flyer? just maybe do a little I mean off top of my head why don't we get a fire together like this take it to all the businesses you know on the boulevard down beachers just wherever university and just say you know we we're having a cleanup initiative take care of your property kind of thing I mean what's your thoughts on something like that I mean I think it's a great I mean there's a plaza right here on the boulevard Mhm. You know, it's constantly got sheets, bags blowing into its bushes,

you know, and um and things like that. And there's just the amount of litter and it's like this for weeks until I just, you know, get crazy and jump out of the car. But, you know, let's take flyers. Maybe that's something we could talk to Ricky and and and say, "Hey, why don't we do it this way?" Instead of code running down every 5 minutes to say, "Pick this up." Why don't we say we we're having a summer initiative or an all year long in a cleanup renaissance. There you go. Great. Ricky, is that something we could look at, Jamie? Okay. I'll be happy to help pass distribute it. Yeah. [clears throat] There are um people in our downtown that um I see

Yeah. that clean up. Oh, sure. Every day or most days or you can kind of you can kind of in your head you can kind of run through who you see doing that and and they do prosper. Mark last year I went to Hoboken. Yeah. I was the same time Danielle was there. went to that Beyonce concert and I know and and we decided to take the boat over to Hoboken and meet my nephew and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Businesses out there cleaning. They had like I would say they're like their little city ambassadors. You couldn't see a lick of trash anywhere and the sidewalks were spless. No weeds. that it's it's fundamental to economic growth and economic activity.

And you should have seen how busy every one of those little doughnut shops and bagel shops work because they know it's consistently going to be nice when they go. There's not going to be throw up right in the center of it. So, yeah, let's try. I mean, let's It's worth a try, guys. I mean, but it's but it's it's it's teamwork, right? You're saying it's not it's not let's shift too much of our city budget toward that. If [clears throat] you need some shifting toward budget, fine. But it's a it's a community because you're developing that stewardship and community pride that you all talk about. And this is the the whole point of Morgantown Forward.

What I do and what Mark and Jody and everybody else is doing is we're involving the community. Um but yeah, I let's try it. I'm really glad you mentioned that aspect of it, Jenny. The um the community, the teamwork. I I just want to express that it's important to me and I think to all of us that the communication I think the flyers are a great idea but um anything we're asking like that that the communication and the the language is very community-minded very teamwork-minded. we're doing this together, not shifting responsibility, not, you know, um because, you know, focusing on

the common goal of a beautiful Morgantown and a a fiscally sustainable and economically developed like a beautiful town. Well, think of how many eyes we have if everyone is looking out for somebody dumping their trash or somebody not, you know, if if people didn't dump it to begin with, we wouldn't have to have quite so many cleanups. We set the standard. Okay, that's good. I like that name. So, identify those systems.

And I agree about sidewalks. We did take a step forward a couple years ago when um where the sidewalks are uneven, we had someone come and do more grinding instead of replacement. And I know sometimes you just plain need replacement, but some of that grinding was very helpful where then it wasn't it wasn't so much of a trip hazard and it looked better. All right, we exhausted this topic. Exhausted.

All right, we'll move on to I guess your your second topic here, Mark, that you sent in is development services performance. So you want to elaborate what you mean on that? Yeah. So, um you know, development services and and and planning and permit our planning and permitting environment is one of our most important economic development tools. It really is the you know the framework by which economic development and activity and growth happen in our city. And um right now um it's unpredictable. um we see shifting requirements and prolonged timelines that um create real friction uh create friction and um it's been getting progressively worse um over the course of the last 10 to 12 years. Uh I I think really since Dan Boroff um it's been getting worse and I think uh it is I really believe it's foundational to um it's one of the foundational reasons for the revenue situation that we that we see um certainly not all of it but um but it's a a big contributor. um we see business after business that isn't willing to uh invest in our city limits. Uh so but you know ultimately when uh permitting is too burdensome uncertain uh we lose investment opportunities uh compliance uh declines and and and growth is impacted. Um so um you know It's been said we have a gold standard for safety, but I think predictability matters just as much.

Um, and our system like it's gone has gone um so far I think in one direction that it's harming the conditions of our buildings and redevelopment. Um people are disincentivized because the system has become so burdensome that they're just giving up and and stopping and that's causing buildings to that's causing buildings to decay. You know when people stop caring because they feel like there's there's nothing they can do. Um so you know those processes that are intended to prevent decay end up you know contributing to it and that it's it's um that that that's we just can't have that. Um so um you know if we have we need a system that's predictable, transparent, respectful of everyone, consistent uh and um and protects safety. Um, so you know, and that looks like clear timelines, defined requirements, consistent enforcement. Um, they're just essential to another just it's another topic, another area that's essential to economic development and growth and our activity. So, um, I [clears throat] look, you, uh, Ricky and Jamie and Ricky's team and Jamie and I and, um, and and Ryan have been working on several, uh, policy alternatives associated with with permitting. Uh, I think, you know, they're they're they're moving us in a good direction, but, you know, I think there's more I think there's more that we can do. um you know and and more that we want to do. So

love to love to hear from you. So I wanted to be more specific

about some of the issues. Um, so I would like to see I've seen um other places where they even had like you could have an accelerated timeline if you wanted to pay pay more which I don't think people are going to I don't think people here are going to buy into that because I think they want the services that they pay for um in a timely fashion. Um, but I think people uh innovate in this area and I think we um were hampered throughout some of these issues by having um we're in a low tax base community and so it's harder for us to provide the services that people are used to other places. Um that doesn't mean it can't be done. That's not an excuse. It's just something to look at. um and the fact that we are um an area where we have code enforcement and then immediately outside of our of our boundaries there's no code enforcement. So so or or very little code enforcement [clears throat] I think we have certain things coming in that kind of hamper us. It's it's not an excuse. It's just sort of looking at looking at what we have. Um it sounded like at one point we had more of a um a personal system where people could come in and get personal um service toward some of the permitting. Uh and then uh the system went more online and my understanding is that there is that there is actual help provided for those who are not comfortable online. Um and my understanding is over the last couple years and maybe the last year um that people have been more satisfied um

in the um timelines and in the uh services provided. Um, I think that we have looked at renovation as an issue just from talking to you, but also talking to a couple other people where renovations and code enforcement are difficult. Um, and it's hard to be consistent and have those safety parameters when it's a renovation because you don't know exactly what you're going to get into. So, you might plan something very well, but then once you get in, you might not even find that. It's hard to take the time to do that. Um but it has to be we do well and people are happy buying houses in the city limits or other buildings in the city limits because they had the code enforcement process. So for economic development we provide a better product because we have code enforcement. So, whatever we can do to kind of balance, uh, timelines, um, and I think we have excellent code enforcement. When I've had code enforcement people in my community, uh, you know, the area where I live or I've seen them working, they're very professional. They know what they're doing. But I think that we are in times where people want something right now and we need to provide it and we need to figure out where that balance is and um make some of those improvements that you're talking about while still being appreciative of our employees that have been doing this for a long time. Some of them and some of them are new. So whatever we can do to but my understanding is that this has improved over the last bit just from people reporting that to me. There we go. [snorts]

What else do you guys I mean one of one of my issues that you you brought up for me Jenny is that I've not been presented with data that shows me over time it's gotten easier. It's gotten timelines have gotten shorter. I don't have any idea if they've gotten shorter. I don't think that there's Yeah. So, we can ask for

Well, and so that answer for that data is complex too, I think. Right. So, it's not just like this is one sizefits-all, right? Because some things may take a long time because they need to. Some things may not may take a short amount of time when they didn't need to. You know what I And so like so painting that full picture I think is difficult but it's a it's something that we need to understand better and I think we don't have the sort of we don't have that kind of data in hand. I think something that Danielle talked about earlier is and the only thing that I've heard consistently around code enforcement and developmental services since I've been on council is that it isn't is how inconsistent it is. Like that's the most consistent thing I hear. And it's like people feeling um very much like why should I follow the rules when this person who never does gets handed this or gets a million exceptions or is able to do one thing and that gets him back into compliance but he's making my life a living hell, you know? So I'm sure you've heard it before too, right? Like is is and some neighbors just don't like each other. So that's part of it too, right? Is like I just hate that guy. Um

and uh but like the standardization of timelines so that we know what's expected of of these and if something doesn't reach that expectation why it didn't and having like this is you know we have a reason why this is missing this timeline for this protracted period of time you know is is something I think we like desperately need. I had heard something um and I think it was when I was asking Mark questions about um the sequential nature of some of the um examination of plans where where it went from one person to another person to another person. So sometimes it takes a long period of time to get through all of those persons. So somehow if we could and I don't know how that works because this is not my area but ways that we could tighten up that sequential nature of how

like segmentation like make it less segmented. Is that what

I've seen I've seen um in engineering a whole bunch of people around one plan having a discussion. So I yeah if I can comment because that's currently an item that I know staff has been actively working on because the system and and there's a lot of benefits to the online portal. It provides a lot of efficiencies. Uh but it like any online system, there's workflow built into it. So I think what you're referring to is the natural or at least the current workflow and it's a system that we're still adapting to and and making improvements for efficiency. Uh but it does that workflow like when this person approves it, it goes to the next. So staff's um currently working on a process of the intake process of how you ensure everybody in the process whether at they're at the beginning or the end of it maybe gets notified of that permit and has an opportunity to see into that window of that permit early even if they are later in the process. Uh staff's also implemented what we call a technical review committee where they all get into a room and sit down and say okay here's the backlog of permits. What do we need on these ones? Where are going to be some of the hiccup spots? So we we too recognize that the se sequencing of the way that is flowing um is something that we want to target in order to help close that timeline too.

Yeah. So whatever we can do once again to work together to get some of these things done, not us saying that somebody's insufficient, but saying this needs improvement.

I feel like All right. We treat applicants as if they're an inconvenience too often. Um, I feel like we like to play gotcha sometimes where it's like, well, you have to resubmit one form or you forgot to put this one piece of information. Clock starts over. We get 10 more days. Now, um, I think that our standards have been our our bar has been set pretty low. I will say like I on behalf of the city have been participating in the West Virginia Works cohort that I've talked about several times and the Institute for Justice folks who are running that are in Morgantown right now for Bridging Innovation Week. I spent half of my day today going around and talking to some of our small businesses who have recently [clears throat] gone through some of our processes. And these people from DC who do this in many different states in many different cities even people who were talking to Wheeling Charleston Parkersburg and Huntington they're like oh my god like that that is so ridiculous that that you ran into that issue or that they required you to do this or you didn't like that word you called it a fence instead of a border. Um there's I think that personally I feel like I am gas lit a lot of the time. I go I have residents or business owners come to me and say I've been having this issue and I will bring that up to Jamie and I always get a response that's like that's the that's the applicant's fault. It's never how can we help? What can we do better? Um,

it's usually it seems to me like a lot of the blame game. And I think that that makes it so that we have a lot of compliance issues. Like Mark said, I had work done at my house 2 or 3 weeks ago. I don't know. I think my contractor probably did it without a permit. It wasn't clear to us if we needed a permit. He got on our city works system or if that's what it's called and he checked and you know we were having a patio board. Well, is it a raised deck? No. Is it a driveway? No, it doesn't connect to the street. Do we need a permit for this? I don't know. So, he called the office. 3 days he didn't get a call back, he said. So, we just proceeded with the work. I don't I'm still not clear on if I needed a permit for that or not, but I didn't pay for one. So, I think that he the contractor came to my house and was like, "Mayor, your your online system is the worst thing I've ever tried to deal with. I get permits in Star City and Granville all the time. They are happy to take my money. They are happy to allow me to do work without, you know, the scrutiny that we are constantly put under. I'm I'm just going to stop doing work within the city of Morgantown." So, I think that that's where a lot of of business people are these days, unfortunately. And it's I agree with Mark that it's putting that's one of the factors putting a huge strain on our budget is the fact that people either refuse to do work within the city or when they are doing work within the city, they just don't follow our processes. you brought something up for me which like I didn't think I would mention but of one thing and like um now that I at

Scotsront Slement House we have a we have a home repair program and for the past five six seven years we will no longer do that program within the city of Morgantown because of being burned by permitting restrictions for people who need emergency repair zones. Um, so I I mean that's just another way to look at it, I guess, is that like there's people who need the roof on their trailer fixed immediately. Mark and I were contacted by a property owner whose decks were failing and they had to remove them and he was waiting, waiting, waiting for a permit to replace those. And

people with children were living in these apartments on the second floor. door opened up to a drop off. That to me seems like more of a life and safety issue than [snorts] most. What are you building your deck out of? Yeah, right. We need both. I am all I am all for enforcing life and safety issues, but I feel like we nitpick a lot about aesthetics or Well, Mark's right like predictability. We have to make sure that it's it the people know that what the rules are can follow the rules in a standardized way and in a way that's not like cumbersome.

Yeah. And and and just in terms of outside city limits, right? Um yeah, it is it's the wild west out there. There is no code enforcement. But what we don't see is buildings falling down. We don't see [snorts] people spontaneously combusting when they walk into a walk into a a a business that changed use from retail to to assembly. They're just not exploding like vampires. Um which be so so you know it it for for me when when I hear that you know well it's wild. Uh, it's that that's that's just an excuse and I don't buy it. Um, it it's an excuse for us to do nothing and we can't do nothing here because it's costing our residents terribly in terms of the services that we're able to provide. It is when we have people that are leaving the system because the system is too flawed, too problematic, not working well enough. That's less safe than if we implement a system that um that that that is easier to comply with, right? It's less safe if we have people that aren't that are just checked out. Um [clears throat] so, but but I do think to the to to the point about being outside the city limits, we've got an opportunity to have a competitive advantage. Um and and you you said code in terms of code enforcement in terms of if we shift our focus from I think less of an enforcement kind of operation to more of and Danielle said to planning and problem solving operation, right? Um, that's a competitive advantage for us.

If if if business owners and investors can come to the city of Morgantown and go, "Oh my gosh, you know, man, development services walked me that, you know, I came with this opportunity and development services walked me through this process like this and I, you know, we weren't sure how we were going to do this or that or the other thing and they we we sat there and we figured it out and it was just the the best thing in the world." Um, that's a competitive advantage and that's the opportunity we have and I think that's kind of where we need to systemically make our focus. I think radical hospitality and then services. Absolutely. That's a great I love that. [laughter]

I feel like not often enough we're saying like we don't often enough say how can we help make this happen. I have seen us a lot say how can we deny this? Um, I mean, we had people before planning commission for a reasonzoning and we said, "Why do you need to reszone this? You said you had people living there. It they were saying it was a non-conforming use needed to be reszoned in order to move multiple families back in." We're like, "But you got a letter of compliance 6 months ago. Like you said people [cough and clears throat] were moving out as you bought this property 6 months ago." And staff said, "Well, we're still looking into that. We're trying to find the the paperwork that says no one's been living there. I'm like, just let it let them move people back in. Put it back into productive use. Why are we working extra hard to find a reason to say no, you can't do that? So, we did not reszone that. We told uh city staff like, "So, stop digging. Just let him move in." Well, I appreciate it. Um, I had a contractor that wasn't doing a very good job. This is a while ago. Anybody in my neighborhood, a long time ago, this person doesn't work in our area. Um, but they were doing a terrible job. And code enforcement came in and said, you know, you need to do this this way. And I appreciated being called to that when it wasn't when it wasn't a good when it wasn't

it wasn't a good I if I can tell that it's not a good job. [laughter] this is not my area, then it's not a good job. And I really appreciated that. And and um uh and they had great like interpersonal skills to explain to them what actually did need doing so that then they did do it right. So um it kind of it kind of cuts both ways, but the time factor the time factor is huge. And so whatever we can do to keep things moving um and still done correctly, I appreciate. Yeah.

My issue was the outcome was going to be the same. That was going to be a two or three family rental, but like we're making them jump through all the hoops of reszoning, like looking for reasons to make them reszone when we don't want to spot zone anyways. Like we don't we don't want to have to do that. We shouldn't have to do that, which is why we're working on the non-conforming use stuff. But is like the outcome's going to be the same. Stop looking for reasons to make it more burdensome.

Mhm. No one was saying they couldn't move in. They were just saying in order to do it, you have to go through planning and you have to go through council and you have to like anything else on this topic. All right. Uh, next we have downtown business improvement district. I'm excited about this one, Mark.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Um, and I think this is a this is this is a good opportunity and and um you know these business improvement districts exist all around the all around the the country. Um most times they're going to be in your commercial core. Um, and uh that it's it's really just a defined area where property owners and business owners uh fund enhance services um based on you know kind of volume and throughput um through a a dedicated assessment. So, because it is a commercial core, it's going to be busier. It's going to get dirtier. It's, you know, where you're you may want it to look look look a little better. Um, kind of like associated with our urban landscapes program. Um, uh, so to to the point earlier about uh standards and cleaning and things and limitations on funding, this is a way to kind of come at that. So, um, it, you know, uh, we have unique needs in our commercial core and and and and they're above and beyond kind of our baseline level of service for for businesses in terms of, you know, cleanliness, maintenance, um, and uh, and just require a st a higher level of care, a standard of care because they they get used more. So, um, so you know, this is kind of a structural way for us to that we could consider putting in place for, uh, our downtown to invest in itself. Um, with it's it's, you know, not it's an aug way to augment city kind

of baseline city services um to to create a higher level of higher level of service. Somebody else take that up. [laughter] You know, I will, but somebody else. Yeah.

So, Mark, do you want to say more about just what um what the structure of that would look like in terms of like what is a business is a business then paying more in taxes when they're in a bid? And I mean it it depends on how they get implemented, right? And and we've we've got Yes. But that's I mean fundamentally yes. Um and and uh we've got you know we are limited in obviously the way ways that we could consider uh implementation of this. Um so we'd be looking at certain revenue streams where we do have flexibility to you know increase an assessment or increase a fee uh or increase a tax and um and you know it does we we have ways by which we could implement those on various revenue streams on you know it doesn't have to be across the board necessarily. you know, we could we we could we could do that in any number of ways that we wanted to, but but but ultimately um it's a fee for service, you know. So, um I I I uh I personally, you know, talked to a lot of property owners that, you know, complain about, you know, uh not having, you know, flower baskets on every light post or or or or litter being, you know, downtown or somebody, you know, threw up in their doorway or whatever. and and you know so okay you know great that you I mean back to back to setting expectations around taking care of that yourself because it is your property and and you exist in the downtown and benefit from you know that existence in the commercial core but this is if if if that if that if that alternative if that solution doesn't

suit you here's another track right here's another track now it's going to you're going to pay for it it's going to cost you something but um but you know you satisfy a need. So um so that's really what this is about.

Yeah. I think it you know with initiatives like this it's I mean it is it's incumbent on us to like show how people would get a return on investment, right? And and what that what that would mean to them. Um and and growing that trust. I think we're in a position right now where there's probably not a lot of that um in terms of trust and how we're handling finances in a way that people feel comfortable with. And um so yeah, I mean I think it I think it would be something that we need to I I'm sure that if we talked to most like downtown businesses and we said here's an investment and here's the kind of things we want to do with it, they'd be like great. I don't know if you're actually going to [laughter] deliver on this,

you know. Um, and I don't blame him. No, I don't e I I don't either.

Absolutely. I don't either, but um but you know, we've got to start building trust somehow. And and and u and we do that by virtue of delivery. Um so, you know, another another thing just to throw something something else. I mean another thing is just you know in terms of uh you know activity um activity and and being a you know having a way a mechanism by by by which you know we we'd we'd all love to shut our downtown down more and you know have more parties more festivals more activities that draw more visitors more tourism more engagement. Um but you know the constant problem that we come up with is okay well how do how do we pay for it and who's going to do it you and u so you know I I kind of view this as another way to um to to you know build that basis of for a return on investment. Um, you know, not only is it, you know, clean and better maintained and, uh, but it's also more activated, right? And your baseline revenue is going to increase because of that that activation.

And this is just for clarity sake for everyone. This is different than the municipal service fee, right? um which we have to acknowledge that downtown small businesses would also be impacted by um one way or another. Um feels like we're asking a lot [laughter] all at once before we and I realize they're you know separate things but they do impact the same people. Um, you know, we just came from the public forum downstairs and I would say easily a majority of the folks who came were downtown business owners. Um, I just want to keep that in mind. I just want to say that out loud that that's on my mind. Um, that the trust building is absolutely imperative. Um, and it it it feels it feels maybe slightly irresponsible to be asking more of people um before we start to prove that we can do it. And I understand that the money is necessary to prove that we can do it, but trust building can happen lots of ways. Um I just wanted to set that on the table. Not for or against or anything, just setting it on the table. I think our ambassadors did a nice job with um trust building and and any group um and I know Main Street does this also, but any group that um actually talks to the people that you want to charge money to and sees what they might need and what they might want to pay for or what they might not want to pay for or what they might want to pull together

their own um their own selves and their own um ability to

uh sweep together every morning or whatever they'd like to maybe they'd like to pull to buy certain things together themselves. Um how um same with graffiti. Maybe they want their own graffiti squad or maybe they want to work through for a specific need like graffiti. Maybe they want to work through Main Street and have a graffiti group or uh identify what the issues are. Like if the issues are more flower baskets, maybe people would be willing to help pay for more flower baskets specifically to help with trust. I think is give people what they really want [snorts] out really need. um if the throwing up is the problem and we provide a [laughter] certain which it is frequently um you know we have a cleanup crew but if we do want um uh a couple more people on the cleanup crew that might be something that people would be willing to fund but I think people don't in general want government to take more of their money they just don't um and so whatever we can do to get people the enhanced services that they want through whatever means are reasonable to their pocketbook and to the condition of our downtown. So, how can we get the things the specific things that they need? And it might be just them getting together themselves and talking about what else they want, what else they need, or what they um what they see that needs doing that isn't being done now. with the understanding that we have limited tax dollars.

But it's a really good point. I think this issue of trust is interesting to me because I think people in general like people tend to trust their specific state legislator, but they don't trust like the other state legislators. So they might they might trust the person at city hall that they have frequent contract contact with. I know I do. When I see someone frequently, I think, "Oh, I know who they are. I know how they're going to act." That's good. But if I don't see someone very often and I'm not sure about the process, it's a lot easier not to have the trust that we might want. So, uh, it seems like it's trust is kind of a specific um [clears throat] specific scenario um feeling or um reaction.

Quick logistics question. Um, Mark, I know you said there's several ways this can be structured. Um, are any of those optional? Is the basis of this optional? Do businesses opt into this? Is this required in the district? I mean, if you're in the district, you I think you you're you're going to participate. I But, you know, I mean, yeah, that would be something I think we would have to look into. Okay. In in terms of implementation.

Sure. Yeah. And if I may add, I [clears throat] think implementation, the details of that is really where the success comes in. Uh the city of Morgantown has used bids in the past. The legislation that authorizes this goes back to the '9s. And Morgantown was actually a very early adopter. uh as you look across the state in the different models um some of the more recent models even if you look just beyond West Virginia and maybe look to Pennsylvania Ohio some of the surrounding states to get more examples of the way people are doing things there's a variety of models that you can consider this doesn't just have to potentially be another line of revenue in the city budget you know the idea is how do you ensure these services are an enhancement to the current service level not just to to supplement the current service level and So, um, while we always want to be mindful of creating systems that can become overly bureaucratic or or just more boards, um, a lot of these bids have gone forward with a governance model that gives that degree of engagement and involvement from [snorts] the property owner where there is a an set entity who manages how these funds are expended, what projects it would go on to that would involve uh, the business owners downtown. Now, certainly you may not be able to capture every single business owner, but you have representatives of the business owners downtown intentionally helping uh decide on how some of these funds are used. And so, I think um something a model like that could be something we should explore.

Thank you. Yeah. And and I just want to I just want to say, you know, like the way I'm going to approach every one of these things with with with with no bias, right? I'm gonna throw I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna throw anything and I'm gonna throw I'm gonna throw I'm gonna throw ideas good or bad

um what you know without without judgment at these at the top at these topics and um you know that bid bids are something bids are something that are used all over the place. If you go to a downtown in a major city and you're walking around and you're like this is really nice man look how cool this is. How are they doing this? Why why isn't our downtown like this? It's probably because they have a bid or a management organization that's running it and cleaning it and making it look pretty and activating it and you know it's probably because of that. So, you know, when you when when folks ask themselves that question, um I hope they come back to that. But um but again, this is an idea. We're going to have a public input session on it uh next month. people are going to have the opportunity like like they had on municipal service fee to come and give us their input and and and tell us what they think about it and that's what this is all about. Um so um you know that inspiring conversation and and and vetting needs and building partnership and trust. I I do believe we had um this type of district, the top couple of blocks of High Street when we um when we paved it.

Yeah, I believe we've had four or five in the history um of Morgantown at some point or other. Maybe just a one time special assessment. Yeah. And it worked. So you you you've been to Charleston, I'm sure. [laughter] Um, you know that really pretty alleyway that probably I believe at least part of it is covered by a bit. Um, and the there's like a park kind of connected to it. Um, just looking at it online,

there's I don't know there's a lot of businesses there that I can't count fast enough, but they also have board members that sit on this bit um that are representative of the local businesses. So like when like those people get to those people that have like a stake in it get to make these decisions into how this money gets spent and like I don't know look at [laughter] it's pretty um and like disagree. Yeah. And and I mean the thing is just priorities. No no for sure for sure. Um, but you know, I I share the the concern that you're bringing up, right, which is that like I can show you what Charleston's doing,

but that doesn't guarantee that that's some that's that's what we'll do, right? And uh the I I think most of the business owners that we talked to today were just like very hesitant about the burden on their business. It wasn't so much like cuz I don't actually agree that much that like people don't want to pay the government money. I think that people don't want to pay the government money for things that they hate and they don't want to pay the government money to do things that are horrible. Um you know they they much more want to see that their tax dollars are actually being spent. It's just like offensive when you see how your tax dollars are spent a lot of time. Um, and you know, I I can say that we've been probably better stewards of our of taxpayer money. I would I would push back on a lot of people who say that we've been such bad stewards of of of of their money. I I don't think we've done the best we possibly could, but we're not bombing Yemen and we're not, you know, um, and we're not the state of West Virginia and the sorts of things they're up to. So, you know, it's like I get it. I get why people are frustrated, but in terms of where your tax dollars are going, I think growing small business and, you know, being rooted and invested in our in in our parks and um you know, all all the sorts of arts and cultural programming that we have and and all that stuff is like I'd much rather see my tax dollars go to that um than a lot of the other things they go to. So, um I think it's it's incumbent on us to make that case to people and show why it's important and and maybe not, um ask it right away, but give people concrete examples of what we could be doing, you know. Anyway,

I think the I completely agree and thank you for um I also didn't quite grasp the like board situation. So, that is I think that's one way of structuring. Sure. Yeah. It's just one of the things. Um

you're right. they they I think people do um generally want to give the money to the government for things that they like and um this is something I think a majority of Morgan countians desire to see is a vibrant alive downtown. I think that we the other side of this is um you know you're saying they they don't want to see their money go to things they don't like. And so we have to also make sure and sorry to harp on it but we do part of this conversation is if we are asking more money from them that we are good stewards and there are huge changes we need to make in our budget in order to be the best stewards of their money and to make me feel better about asking for more money for things like this. Did you all notice during the budget meeting how many different directions people went and that somebody's pretty much always going to pay for something in their city government or their state government or their federal government that they really don't like

and something they really do like and some things in the middle because that's just the nature. Um some things in city budgets no one wants to pay for um because it just isn't isn't an issue that has cache for them. Um but maybe if they're a policy wonk or policy geek or whatever, maybe they love whatever the thing is that other people don't care about. And maybe one person likes technology and another person likes some other thing, you know, and and people differ. So Sure.

It's kind of cool how uh multi- varied uh city governments are and how many different services and very practical services that cities um provide. Sure. And you're absolutely right. I just hope that we can look at what I think most of us agree are irresponsible expenditures um because I think there are some of those before you're asking people for more money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are we good on that one? We want to move on. Okay. Coordination with Morgantown utility. Board you had on here.

Um before we go to the next one, just this I think we could have a business improvement district in any part of town. Sure.

So we have downtown business improvement districts, but I would just always make sure that we're framing it because we have a lot of other business districts. And I know that one city manager was working really hard in Saberton at that business district and getting up flags um at holiday seasons and meeting with them about what they would like to see. So, we could have a business improvement district in several in Evansdale parts of town or um in neighborhoods and you know, you could you could have a bis some sort of I know it's usually or often used in downtowns because they have uh lots of problems,

but um all over town you might have somebody who wants more that um is willing to make a structure um to collect funds and distribute them in the way that they all decide they would like to distribute.

Yep. For sure. Which is a great segue into the next topic. Thanks, Jenny. Uh that's like we planned this. um it's actually infrastructure prioritization and and I think it's just you know prior right this is about resources and priorities and so you know I I think yeah I I we can do a better job in planning and then this is going to feed into the mub topic too but but just you know we have we have a limit we don't have an infinite number of resources so when we try to do everything all at once we don't do anything well Um so you know this is really about you know economic development requires focus um and making deliberate decisions to invest and prioritize um we I wish we was here she talked about the gateways and working on the gateways you know prioritize the corridors that that drive activity that drive economic development and being strategic about those and having those discussion, sitting down and having those discussions and letting them inform our plans. um you know downtown key commercial routes um other areas that are pos positioned for growth if it's if we think it's you know if it's if it's saber if it happened to be Saberden or it happened to be Sunrest um you know this it it means some areas move forward first and others wait but ultimately the ones that are waiting are benefiting by by by virtue of the ones that are moving forward first because we're growing Uh, and we're going to and we're and we're going to get there, but we we've got to build incrementally and that building incrementally could be better

served by planning and being more strategic about uh how we're how we're investing. Um, so that's really what th this this um this topic area is about. So, is this more a budgetary thing or more what infrastructure will help us first thing? Yes. I [laughter] figured yes. Jeez.

Yeah. Yeah. What's the what's like the policy direction with that though? Like you know like how do you affect I mean it it starts with the budget right in the budget process. Um and and and the but the budget process could be informed by some kind of strategic level plan level of strategic planning around you know capital plans. So because I've been sort of stuck in the middle sometimes um as different council