County Commission - workshop

They would have the different trades, so Davis High would frame the house, Clayton High would form the house, Northridge High would do the electrical, and then they'd hire out the HVAC.

So we have two teachers that are general contractors, and they build the hall, and then my class comes in. I mean, it used to be, because we used to build five homes a year. Now we're doing both. We finish one complete home every year. So we'll start one house and get it to four-way. And then we finish the one from the previous year. We do all the finished work. That way, we're not, there's always a push, but the sound is really electrical.

and they wanted it back because the water, they're seated, so they had to move it all the way back to the... Is that Tang?

Yes, it's Tang.

We got them at 1 a.m. None of us are brave enough to ask what it is.

Like, how much did I pay for the setting?

That's beautiful.

They're married. What?

I was leaving this open if you wanted.

You don't want a front row seat?

I want no front row seat.

I said we saved you a seat.

Or is it?

If you were to take everything that was gathered, those were the common tracks.

I like the higher density housing down here connected to where Gardner has his, and it works into larger residential lots. I wasn't personally thrilled about, you know, I didn't feel like commercial was going to work that well in there, but I love where it sits right next to the fire and the access from the maintenance.

so i don't have i don't really have a time so i have to admit too when i opened up this today i saw it i was like

I know you're saying there's 10 plus. it needs to be at least five and a half so I want specifics like instead of just saying a public park area but we also have this area here that's also right right but that's not we can't place on that so I'm thinking the flat area I need a number that's in there that's So they have to do playing fields. This gets them this of playing field. Smith has two soccer films.

Do you want to come over here?

So I'm just going through my list, right? So I'd like to come up with an actual number on what this park is. Okay, I got that. And then, let's see. So I don't want to count the unusual detention areas or just deep slopes. Thank you.

So, either here.

This is two and a half acres, or maybe it's more. I don't know. We'd have to scale it.

So this is five and a half acres. Seven and a half acres.

and I know you're going to roll your eyes, but You can't compare.

the community at large. And this was beautiful. I loved your concept. Just need to make sure we have two playing fields, a playground in this area. So all these people coming to the soccer games had little These are my other things, right? If I were to take it and just make it my ideal piece, right? I would love, like, a trail that also went on this side.

How beautiful would that be?

And then the other one is... Question on the commercial. Nothing's actually been developed, right? It's just a piece of land that's stuffed.

The utilities will be stuffed into a core development, but we are not building a commercial.

So.

How do you guys feel about that?

Which I mean I understand if you don't do commercial development

have a minimum of 35%. Otherwise, it's all commercial.

So me personally, I would love to see

for it to be viable to develop. So typically we don't develop commercial the same way we develop houses. So we do develop commercial when we have an end user that wants to buy it. So for instance, we'll get an end user that wants to run a grocery store The spaces are all so personalized for each individual business that to speculate on commercial is a good way to lose a lot of money and go out of business.

Because you have to have the end user in mind when you're building the space. If it's a restaurant, it has to be built from the get-go. It's like a restaurant space.

If it's a grocery store, it has to be built all the way. If it's an industrial area, you have to build that way. So we do intend to develop this. houses, meaning that we'll build the houses before there are buyers for the houses because there's a pickup demand in Utah for those houses. And so we can speculate on the residential side, but not on the commercial side.

So you could just sell it?

As soon as we have the site identified and we can quantify what acreage is there and what it looks like, the shape of it, and what the nature of it is, have to sell. But yeah, it's funny. That's funny.

You see most commercial properties sit there until some

Just to put it in perspective, the Sinclair that's at the Trapper's Loop Quarter sits on 0.8 acres. So it may not fit a luxurious fabric with, you know, truck parking and truck bays and stuff like that, but it would fit a pretty good size.

Is that run a risk of trying to be resound residential?

To be clear, none of this, this is all R01. So this commercial is actually not even in the town center zone.

That's a good concept, yeah.

Yeah, I didn't like that.

It'd be tied to a layout.

So the numbers in there aren't correct?

Generally when we get a layout in an MDA that has entered into the MDA as an exhibit, usually the streets in the general form Because on the exhibit to the MBA, that would constitute a major change. So only minor changes could be approved at the staff level. Any major change like that would have to go back to the board commission. And we can tighten up the label of the MBA to make sure that that's the way it works. But in my experience, that's how all of our MBAs are. They're intended to basically deliver the concept as is with the form. already delivered and then the minor changes can be approved by staff just to not clog up the work.

I think the minor changes we identified as less than five percent

Scandinavian, but it'll be a mix with what's popular today.

I really like their addition of the clubhouse.

Yeah, it'll be similar. We'll have similar. What we end up doing is on our townhomes, we tightly control that architecture, but then on the houses, we actually grog it out a little bit. We offer four different elevations on each of our house plans. So our single family, you'll see some more variation. But on all of our town roads, we'll probably follow that kind of more scantily and crass for the architecture. I think we've submitted some elevations for that.

So when I was looking through it, I'm excited you're providing this. into Verde Mountain. No, for 550.

Like if you look at what we've been building in Utah County right now, all of our stuff is pretty reachable by those families trying to provide the same kind of spread. That's a really popular lifestyle choice right now. They like the Siegel family layout. It doesn't or around 80 to 90 bucks a month. It kind of depends. We've gone back and forth on whether to offer a pool in this area because of the seasonality of it. Pools are pretty hit and miss. You can only get three to four months of use out of them. So this may have a pool just because of the nature of the community, but there's room to add on to the west side of that. We've also done some pools that are So we're exploring all those options right now Well, there's some questions That layout there would be intended to be turned over to the county.

I like that.

I thought you said you wanted to send it to the county.

It was actually going to come up. We're getting close, we're getting close. That does bring up, though, another conversation, and that is the roadways. You have most of the roadways in the single-family areas, all, well, really all of that is being dedicated to the county, and the roadways in the town hall areas. that's not really a good thoroughfare road, it causes us some grief. So just something to think about Morgan can't just sit here. get a little more for the mileage, you know, but it's going to be something that

how feasible their mighty operation plans are.

I hope they are feasible, because that would help the feasibility of connecting these two properties. Because right now, there's probably 20 feet of elevation difference between where we're gonna leave our

What do you mean, to the hospital?

get a chance to.

have 270 residential units and then the work units etc because i just wanted to compare what you brought in the first time to what happened there are some things i like better about this plan there's things i like better about this plan to be honest with you i i don't love and there must be something key about the number 270 because you've got 270 residential units here and you've got 270 residential units Which is cool, I get it, right? That's a business decision. I guess part of my concern is this originally did not include the six acres up here, right? And now we're including that and asking for All the commercial is moving to the non-TC zone areas. No, no, no. Yeah, and then the rest of it, which is currently RR1. So currently, if you have six acres roughly there, you've got about four acres left, you currently put about four homes on that, right? A little less than four homes probably by the time you take roads out. Maybe three homes. You're asking to put 18 on there. So that's quite a bit of a jump in density. pretty critical about that so I do appreciate the notion that you know there's more single family in this plan I don't know that that's a huge leap to take away I mean you had proposed 13 acres 14 acres sorry of commercial here you're proposing two and a half here and actually increasing the size of the old but I guess I would just reiterate the TC zone is a commercial zone. Yes, it allows for mixed-use residential, and you could go down to as low as 35% commercial if you do mixed-use, but it is a commercial zone. It's in our commercial use table. It was designed as a commercial zone. It has all the commercial elements in it, and the whole point was to create a town center, not a residential development. I don't know that this parcel, and actually when this was rezoned to town center, this was brought up. I brought it up. Multiple of us discussed it. I don't know that this is the best place for a lot of commercials, so I get where you've gone with this. And I think we're definitely a lot closer than we were the last time by far, and I appreciate that. If it were solely up to me, And the biggest problem I see is that Morgan is a bedroom community. We know that. We don't have a lot of, Mountain Green isn't a municipality. So you can call it Mountain Green all you want, but it's not even a good place. There's no zip code. It's an area in Morgan County. It's not incorporated. Until it is, it's part of Morgan. the more it becomes a bedroom community. We cement ourselves in that area. There's only a certain amount of property in this community that's even suitable for commercial.

And this is one of those pieces.

So it concerns me greatly to trade 13 acres of commercial for two and a half and a couple of soccer fields in the next 20 years. You're not going to redevelop it in the next 30 years. And so once that land is gone, it's gone. Now, I understand saying that. You have property that you purchased and you want an ROI on it. You can't wait 15 years for that ROI. I get that. And so I'm not arguing that, hey, you should leave a bunch of empty space. But what I am saying is this was zoned commercial. You bought it as commercial. You knew it was commercial. Now you're coming in and saying, well, but we don't want to was we feel like the commercial would be better centralized and we asked you to go get with the other developers and centralize that which you did your best at to be very clear I think you guys went above and beyond to do that that is not on you of a house with a big garage, but they are commercially available. And some of them are sitting vacant. And I can understand why you wouldn't want to do that right now, because there's not a market to sell those right now, which makes sense, right? Just overall, my feeling is if we allow full residential development in a commercial zone, which is what we're talking about here, like it or not, this is actually 100% residential in the commercial zone. And that may be the right place for it, so don't get me wrong by saying that, but if we allow that, we are setting a precedent for every other landowner in the TC. So, in my opinion, and I think we're giving up space that could be viable commercial in the future. Maybe not now. I understand you need rooftops for commercial. You do. But I'm nervous about is that you're seeing it from the wrong angle. As I said earlier, the TC zone is a commercial zone. It allows a reduction down to 35% commercial if you do mixed use. It is not a residential zone that requires some commercial. It is a commercial zone that allows some residential.

Some residential, not all residential. Can I? They had real problems with the fact that if you live by the 35% of all the future town centers only, that it basically requires 80 acres of fully built out commercial, which they consider way beyond the mark of what a viable town center would be. Towns the size amount. They cited examples from the other small towns that they kind of did their planning for the town center. commercial that we put on our site could potentially get into the viability of their commercial. And so even though we tried to consolidate whatever commercial we could, it was pretty difficult to work with them when they're already radiating out with residential away from their commercial zone. So the idea of putting in And frankly, this would outperform everything but sales tax, big box retail, as far as a commercial use. Because most of your commercial uses that you are going to get if you isolate them from other commercial town centers and do these kind of spotty pockets of commercial, most of those are going to be service-oriented commercial. residential anything what we found and we we did the we ran out the performance for for property tax use on both scenarios and as long as we got over six and a half feet to the acre residential started to outperform commercial because of the density of it and so even if they pick a 50 reduction for their primary residence residential is still outpacing because of the way that it consolidates the property value on such a small acre, right? Similar to how you consolidate the value of a commercial building on a smaller footprint. A lot of it's parking lot, but then the office itself is worth quite a bit of money because it costs a lot of money. We probably won't get everything we want on this site. We probably won't arrive at the perfect utopia that we all had in mind for this area. But I think there is a good project waiting to come out of this if we can figure out a balance of what the county will get versus what we can deliver and the market is ready for. Because a lot of times, I mean, The roads are going to cost, if we put these roads in right now, this site is going to cost, we say we don't know the numbers, but we know if you look at those two layouts, the roads don't differ that much from these roads, the two layouts. So we've ballparked our development cost on this property at about $23 million. It's going to cost us to develop the project. And so we have to be able to spread that out among viable units that can actually return revenues to be able to make that pencil for us as a developer.

And we also... And I get that, but Cameron, it is not the county's responsibility for you to make money. We don't have to make your project pencil, and every time I hear developers say that, I just cringe because I'm like, look, that's not our problem. Our problem is designing a good community where people want to live.

But if we develop roads in commercial areas that then sit... If it's a commercial project, that's the way that they would be public rails. So I agree. Ultimately, here's the thing. It's not the county's problem.

You have commercial property, right? And you want the benefit of the commercial because it gives you higher residential density. Like that's ultimately, that's why we're not discussing rezoning this to residential. Because if you only wanted residential and you didn't care about the commercial property, benefit of the higher density that's allowed in the commercial zone but you don't want to give any of the benefits of the commercial zone to the community does that make sense that's that's my concern here i think that's i think that's overlooking the fact that we're not looking to maximize our density of this as a town center project we can maximize the density far greater than both of the projects that we've already submitted buy that. That's bull crap. If that's the case, shame on us for rezoning so much land to town center. We shouldn't have done that. I think there's a lot of potential.

But what if PV3 waits and it reverts back to residential? What if they do?

How big is

Why are we doing this in a commercial zone? Again, we're shoehorning residential into a commercial zone. Because we zone it that way. Because we want to give them the benefit of the higher density, or they want the benefit of the higher density. If you want the benefit of the higher density, what do we get out of that?

The referendum even on the face of it was saying that the town center was the appropriate zone because it wasn't big enough to be the PC zone with its own zoning in upper lane. But it would give flexibility to a developer to come in here and do something that wasn't all high-rise condos and stuff like that. So I think what we're getting at is kind of getting close to where we are, but the reality is it's got to work for both of us. Yeah, I mean, at this point, that previous layout is more beneficial for us as a developer. Much previously. I can show you the performance of most scenarios. What this project does is it's 44 acres instead of consolidating the use to smaller acreage, but the unit count is roughly the same, and we're not going to get that much more. If we were selling luxury here, we would probably outperform it if we did that. We went to bigger lots and did that. But there's a diminished return every time we do that, too, because you're spreading the density out over the same area. So realistically, we're kind of getting to the sensitive point where when I present these two projects, our ownership is leaning more towards the original layout and providing all the commercial and acre lots along the highway. Because frankly, that one forms a little easier on the platform. We can deliver townhomes, and they sell really well everywhere we go. Townhomes are, even in areas that aren't affordable, townhomes are feasible for most buyers. They can afford them. We've found that townhomes are becoming more of a lifestyle choice than it is a housing necessity. They're not buying the townhome because they can't afford something else. They just like it.

I'm going to go back to a comment I made in the last commission. In areas, yes, townhomes. But our residents, the majority, are leaving because they don't want to. It doesn't happen. What does that do? It drives our costs up. But I believe, so about 20, 22, 23 years ago, Lake Construction hired a consultant from BYU to do a study on where's Utah going? And he came right in. He says, we're going up. We're not going out. We're running out of ground. You can go build in Skull Valley. Where are you going to be? And he said, kind of what you guys are saying, the generations coming up, they want to go skiing. They don't want to mow lawns. They don't want to have big acreage. But that doesn't mean we have to provide those amenities everywhere. Is there still a place where people can get away from the townhomes and have that acreage that they want? And that's where I think we find that balance of, you know, people are leaving Layton and Davis County and Salt Lake County because I don't want I like having a little bit of room. And so I think that's kind of where, that's where I'm at. I do like, you know, I think you listened to us again and I will appreciate that. I mean, I think my exact wording was a couple of soccer slash football fields and there they are. And so I will commend you for, you went above and beyond and working with developers that frankly didn't want to work with you. You've listened to our concerns

we are and i think we're heading in the right direction i agree with commissioner newton as far as we're shoehorning residential and commercial i mean we're kind of in a weird it's a weird spot it's a weird place well that i i hope you guys know that we're we kind of feel the same way we're really trying to make a project work here and we're advocating for this kind of a layout with an ownership group that's starting not to believe our narrative right so They're the ones that are crunching the numbers every time we open our mouth. We're trying to buffer that with what we think is a cool project for the county. I would much rather build this because I can envision myself or my kids living in this neighborhood and having a ton of fun here. When I look at that layout, I get less excited, but financially, feasibility-wise, our ownership group can make that one work really easy. And it's not a hard ask. But I can take you to neighborhoods that we've built like this in Vineyard, and you guys will love them. And they're full of young families that are out playing together and building lives together that makes it really fun to see. So I get more excited about this layout than I do about that one. But I think we are starting to feel each other's areas of tension where the county wants what they feel is best for this long term and we recognize that we want to make sure that we're trying to deliver it but it's a balance between what we can feasibly do with our ownership group and what we can present to the city all of us can be proud of, because I don't think we're going to get the perfect utopia that if we had unlimited ground and unlimited dollars, then we could just... We'd have lost our speech. Maybe. No, I'm just kidding. Two and a half.

I'm curious.

Could we do another take here on the workforce?

You could, you know, strangely, like commercial is an easier ask. If you guys ask us to go back to our ownership group and say they want more commercial, it's an easier ask than public parks.

Why do you vote?

I don't know. But public parks are tough because there's no revenue event at the end of them. Right, but it's... For Brandon and I to advocate for...

to the state. And yet we have people that work here and live here. Our firemen, our police officers, our school teachers, they can't afford to live here. And that's why I mentioned that we look at a few of them that are deed restricted and try to figure out how to do that right. So that we are giving, to me, that's a benefit to our community when our school teachers can now live here and our firemen can now live here. And you're gaining a little bit here to the fire station, but I think, I know that Park City, they flat out told me, says, we did one, and it was a disaster. They're doing another one, and it's working really well. Weber County, I can't think of his name right now.

Harvey?

Harvey, yeah. He says they did one out there that has been working quite well. And that's it. Yeah, and it's like, is that something where, again, to me, that would be a substantial benefit to the community. You know, and not like, this whole section but you know just we could come up with a small percentage that we could do maybe a 15-year deed restriction they grow their equity but it allows these people that hey I want to get into a townhome but I can't swing the 700,000 but under the deed restriction and how it works they can get in a little bit cheaper and I to me that would you know again it's all give and take right what are your guys willing to do where are we at that to me would be something But then again, you know, I know that, you know, I teach high school. I teach the construction class. And I know, like, up in Cache Valley, the school district there teams up with the city. And they work it toward the first homes. They go to county school district, fire, police. They have the first option to purchase at a reduced rate, at a reduced cost. for the max dollar we can to keep our program running. What does it look like? I don't know. But I would love for you guys to be the first one and work with us. How can we make it work? Talk to Weber and see what's feasible, what works, what doesn't. We don't need to reinvent it, but is that something that your group would be willing to look at a handful? Just a few. We already offer a public service discount for police, fire, and nurses. And

We go so far as to give a discount to anybody that's a trade partner that works with us on the house side, vertical construction, anything like that. We haven't had good luck with deed restrictions, to be honest with you. Most of the time, the deed restrictions don't come with it. and they got additional units for that that you know see but what we're talking about

That's what he's saying. Like, hey, okay, instead of your 13 acres of commercial, you're going to go with two and a half and a three acre park. That's five and a half acres. So you're still getting a significant reduction in commercial in exchange for some single family, which is awesome, and maybe some deep restriction or something of that nature.

I don't know what it is that this company usually do. So deed restricted is you basically reduce it so that you get to within 30% of the median income you're afforded. So basically, like Mike's saying, you have to get down to mid-300s and sell a house. And we currently don't even have anything that's under 380 without losing money. there are some grants that we could go after we haven't generally don't reserve those for mountain green type locations those are usually done for good fill and redevelopment areas and we've used those for redevelopment and but we haven't frankly looked into that at all in morgan county so there's also we've got the other program that is out there by the state that if you can give some of these lower cost homes that it's a benefit

No, it's the State Office of Planning, but it used to be the House of Representatives.

My only concern with, and I think the reduction of the credit for the public services is great. My only concern with that versus the deed restriction is one of the issues we have in Oregon is we get a brand new fireman or police officer right out of post or they're training. We train them up and we send them right to Weaver County because they can make way more money. Through the deed restriction, they're not going to get that because they don't does that make sense and so I mean I I think anything you do to help public services is great you know it's like my dad he's an Air Force veteran and everywhere we go he asks if they have a discount that's great you know I'm not asking for a teacher discount I'm just like I don't I'm okay I don't want to help somebody else you know that that's my concern with just what you're doing right now to looking at the deep end and it may not work I don't know but that's just something I'm trying to figure out how to How do we get our teachers, our firemen, our police, how do we get them to come here and stay? And not just train them up and send them down the canyon, because being in that donahoe, they can make a lot more money driving 10 miles, a lot longer. So how do we get them to stay here? Because you drive up the canyon, they're like, man, everybody should live here. I mean, it's a beautiful place, and that's why we come here. my cousin, so I know him quite well. And I know if you sit down and have a meeting with Mike, I know you'll get it. I used to hold him for him. I'd do anything for him. My other question is, is this access down to Nippon? According to our

They're placed on their survey boundary, and so I went before where before the fence kind of drifted for convenience along that hillside, and also made accommodations for a couple access points. I don't want to put words into Dwayne's mouth, but it kind of seemed like he was just trying to put things where they're supposed to be, but he didn't do a very tactful thing either. We've tried to be really careful about not leaving any fences out because Bonnie does have her cows down there and we talk to her all the time to make sure that she has her cows secure and in excess. it would be a much more favorable access to her property we'll regate it and everything once we do all that but it'd be way easier to get her cows and tractors and trainers and pay wagons or whatever she's getting down there off of this layout than what she's coming the south side along Bonnie's property we were going to do a precast fence just for a little bit more strength. Almost everywhere else that's what we planned on doing is six foot vinyl but down along Bonnie's property where she was going to So based on what you heard from the commission as a whole, I feel like we're close. Is there any, have you guys discussed anything that, oh, we could do this? would still work or well we met as a group with our ownership and they they've seen this map and they're prepared to do this one anything that we've discussed today we'll have to go back and reopen the discussion see what they're open to and so our commitment to you is we'll do that like we we really want to work towards a good solution for both of us and so we're we're trying our best to be swift but our main concern is we want to add That's really cool.

I want to live there. I want to play there.

We're really excited with this layout.

I do like this way better than what you've shown us in all of this. I believe, I mean, even when we look at what the city is doing, they're leaving this stuff out. And I think over the years, the county has kind of just put it at home. I think this is maybe not the size where everybody thinks it's worth it just a little.

and what kinds of commercial are you thinking of? I mean, I'm asking the commission and you guys because, I mean, that is not a good, in my opinion, from my planning experience, that is not a good place for a commercial area no matter what Chris Roydell says.

Sorry. We look at it from just cars passing by and see what would make

I'm against the commission on this one thing and that is is I don't see us having that benefit of the commercial area right there when we've got the commercial area only a half a mile down the road or a mile down the road where the town center is supposed to Layton or Clearfield where you've got this pocket, this pocket, this pocket, and every different development. And I know you're going to say it's a TC zone. We did not have PC at that time. We had no option except TC or commercial or residential. And that's all we had. We did not have a PC zone at that point. We didn't have PRUVs at that point. This here, in my opinion, I don't see what you're going to put in there for commercial development for 2.47 acres. I really don't see it. And I'm seeing another problem. On those park areas, there's no parking. There's zero, I mean, you've got 18 things. Yeah, you've got 18 and 12. You've got 18 and 12. You get two soccer games going there, you need at least 40 or 50. So where are we gonna put it? And I'm asking you guys in the commission, where are we gonna park? Because on Saturday mornings down at Kent Smith Park, we do not have enough parking. When I was hurt, there was one parking spot. I could not, I had to sit out on the road to be able to watch my grandkids play soccer because somebody else that could walk took up the handicapped area and I couldn't. And I had a handicapped thing too, but I could not use it. So I'm looking at it as a perspective of where are people? It's a walking community. Yeah, it's a walking community. I'm just saying, why do we have, why do we need to have a commercial area within this residential area, even though it's on the main road, and it's 35 miles an hour, thank goodness to Ray Lee, we've got 35 miles an hour through there, and I'm just concerned that this is just I don't want to see Morgan become a Layton where we have this cluster of commercial, this cluster of commercial, and we've got homes all the way around it. It's just not good planning for when you're trying to get an area. So my opinion still is I don't like the commercial. I'd rather have homes there.

I can see what you're saying.

Or I'd rather have a ballpark.

I guess it depends on your vision, what your vision is.

That's what my vision is for Morton County.

A quaint outdoor cafe. You go over for breakfast. You walk there.

Yeah, and what restaurant?

It's right next to the fire station. It's right next to the airport.

And that would be good. How would you do that? There's a physical therapy. How do you envision it as commercial with only 2.47 acres?

We've sold both bigger and smaller sites than that for gas station uses and strip malls. We've done this before. That would work for a pretty good little holiday oil. We've already talked to them. They've gotten their initial yeah realistically they can make something like that work we've talked to them and a couple other groups on other sites similar we've got a site almost exactly like that in salem among woodland hills drive and strangely enough it's separated from the commercial town center that we're doing we have uh i don't know if you're familiar with salem but there's a subdivision called salem fields that we've been down there and it's we've got a lot of commercial And Stokes Market is kind of like Lee's, where it's got an Ace Hardware component in it. And it feels really similar, and they've got a couple little cool restaurants there. And we've got, our side has some commercial quarters reserved, but then even apart from that, probably three-fourths of a mile east, where our project goes on Woodland Hills Drive, that's a whole separate road. It's really similar size to this. It hasn't been something that we've expressed regret over planning that way. I think it'll sell well. We're developing it right now along with the rest of that phase. And I think we'll end up selling it to a holiday or a band ring or something.

So you have built out some things like this?

It's not built yet, but it's planned. So we're building it right now. We'll probably pay that site here in the next... Is it worth it?

When you're looking at this commercial, the people that come here for business, they're specifically coming here. So you're not getting passerbys unless they're on this main road. So they come in here and it's purpose, I mean, it's going to have to be a niche market or something. What people are going to go in there for because...

You know a lady already that wants a gym.

Yeah, we actually have books.

In that little piece, I mean, whether we extend it a little bit further, I mean, think of all the people up in your area that can come into those little areas. You think about Morgan City where they have the little alleyway behind the Smokin' Box car. I can envision those little things. You know, again, I can see those little things coming up. get an ice cream or get their coffee or whatever it looks like. Why not have them closer together? Well, you could come to a fire station. Well, you could change the clubhouse area to a different area.

I'm just saying.

Typically, you want to come to a shop where it's quickly accessible on the main road and not jammed back in. These people don't want all the gristles coming past their homes to get to it. You want it out here where they can come out to get to it on their way out. Or if these people are coming in but they stop here, they're not driving them down. to go to the grocery store. You want to stop right here. You don't enter the residential area if you're going to get a sandwich or an ice cream.

Yeah.

You know, and that's the other thing is with the roads as they shrink or get, there's no change. We can maybe look at some on-road parking, you know. One of the problems that a friend of mine has, he lives down in Saratoga. He's got the ball fields. He goes, I can't pull out of my driveway a lot of Saturdays. So as we start to look at that, we can road sites and sizes. You're only 100 yards away.

All I was going to say is I don't know how big of an area is feasible here.

If some of this could be parking.

Because that's my biggest worry.

I do see that this is a small amount of parking.

You've got a small amount of parking there. You've got a small amount of parking right there by the clubhouse. I mean, if you were to put in the ball field, as we've been looking at, or a baseball field, that could be a better spot for it because everyone needs three acres. Three acres for a ballpark. And with parking.

But our community needs soccer.

But we're going to have to find a place for a ballpark.

I think we ought to talk about, I don't like the idea

I think us taking over that, it's just like this here. I mean, when you start to restrict access to your swimming pool, hot tubs, whatever it is you're doing, I 100% agree that it's not open to the public. Your HOA is maintaining it. It's their property. But we have this for the county, and we would take care of that property up and work on it. I agree with Raylene that, yes, we need a baseball, something like that.

The other thing that we probably ought to talk about, because you had all of the roadways in this end, we'll call the green section, as private.

I do think there probably ought to be a public road that accesses the park, if that's the case.

I don't know how well that fits in with your design standard, but maybe think about that, if that makes sense to make at least one of those walkways public. And then the other cul-de-sacs, if...

Tomorrow you're on the agenda.

I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me to have no public road leading to a public . I think we ought to take the responsibility of that.

It does probably what it ends up doing is it makes us take this road and shift it up like this. And so we haven't optimized any of these layouts for the things that we're talking about today either. And so I think give us a minute to revise this layout a little bit, and then we can look at things like optimizing parking. Because there's a lot of stuff that even on this plan, if we left the roads and stuff the same, we could optimize this building area to provide more parking over corners here and here pretty easily. And we didn't really consolidate any parking from this trailhead over to here. optimize it as we tweak this layout a little bit more so.

Is there a plan for a pedestrian bridge across the area?

Yeah. Okay.

It'd just be a box culvert. It'd be a box culvert. Oh, yeah.

Okay. And optimize your plans like you gave an exact number. Sure will.

Yeah, we'll specify acreage of all the parcels.

stats. So tomorrow we'll stand.

Okay, so that would be our request. We'll get a concept put back together.

It'll be a quick turnaround if you want to get back.

So a question for everybody here. So if we reduced and made the public road around by the recreational area, or should we be getting an additional area for ?

So are you saying to kind of bring this up here like this? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, because if we're doing that, and you were saying, OK, if we make this one here public, and say we make that private, then that does not have to be 60 this year.

because like almost the only thing that hasn't changed this whole time is our alignments so we've tried to our points of connection have been really important to us the whole time because we've been talking to Ruler about crossing the creek here we've been talking to Ruler about connecting here we've talked to Bonnie about connecting here Mike isn't as critical we can move him a little bit as long as he does what he's saying he's going spot on about because that alignment is a four-way intersection basically so whatever we do to tweak this it's your fact we'll kind of just try and get back to this point but we might have to i would just try something through you know because we were talking about can we get it additionally if we make it even more of a private person so i'm

And I would like income to steepen it.

and then come back to get all of the effect.

want to have that list so that we can say, hey, residents. And you've already made that list kind of for us as part of the DA, which is awesome. But we want to be able to say that, hey,

well thank you commissioners thank you thank you yeah so september 1st is the goal and anything in the packet the 25th the 25th of august yeah so that's another double va let's have this one go first yes so if we could get it in the packet by june on the 25th is our typical

Okay. Would we be on? Oh, I didn't.

Would it be a work meeting then? If it's not already taken.

They gave more part. As long as you talk to her.

So you're still trying to get between

So when we want to do a workstation,

I want to make sure that we come back I've heard increase the commercial

Dwayne's is right around here.

So that.

Oh, work meeting.

We didn't decide that.

Right before.

I won't be here next Monday. No, no, no. She's talking on the 1st, September 2nd. Oh. Before the meeting. We don't have a work session scheduled. So the question is, do we want to do a work session?

Might be smart.

Yeah.

It will be less painful.

Yeah.

Would we want to have a...

We're talking minor stuff.