Planning & Zoning Commission - Special Meeting

good evening and welcome to the city of montgomery city council and planning and zoning commission special meeting for august 18th uh 2026 it is exactly 6 p.m and i'd like to call this meeting to order uh before we get started if you'd please check your phones make sure that they are off so that we can conduct business and not be interrupted that would be most appreciated uh we will begin with we have um everyone is here but miss langley And we will begin with the invocation given by Mr. Stan Donaldson and then the Pledge of Allegiance. Would you please rise?

Father, we thank you for this day. We thank you, Lord, that our hearts and minds are receptive, Father, to the presentation. Thank you, Father, we use wisdom and guidance in all of our business affairs. And thank you for blessing the city of Montgomery and the people in it. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the United States flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands,

one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Now the Texas flag. Honor the Texas flag.

I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible.

All right. I did receive one request under the citizens' comments. So with that, Mr. Rocky Butler, would you please come to the podium? Yes, ma'am. He is here to speak on the item of a thank you.

I have my office-based office off FM 1097. I live in Minnesota, by the way, right there in Whitehall area, actually. But I just wanted to kind of say a few things. First of all, good evening to you all. Mayor, city council, and planning committee, as well as the MEDCU, whatever members are here. I don't know what you're here at this time. But I just wanted to take a few minutes to personally thank you for giving me the opportunity and placing your trust in me For those of you who don't know who I am, again, I mentioned my name, Rocky Butler. I'm with Butler Real Estate Group, and I work under the commercial division of Berkshire Hathaway. And I had the privilege to list and sell 213 Prairie. Y'all can marry that property to the city. I wanted to come before you tonight, not only to say thank you, but to also share a few of the analytics of the listing and give you an idea of the exposure generally. Throughout the listing period that I had, the proprietors promoted more than 50,000 times. It generated over 1,400 detailed views. That means those people spent some time looking through the metrics of the marketing materials that we sent them. And then that exposure resulted to multiple calls that we serviced, as well as over 30 private showings of that property. As many as you may know, in commercial real estate, getting the property from listing all the way to closing requires cooperation from a lot of people. And throughout that entire process, the city administration, the MEDC, were extremely responsive and professional. Whenever we needed information, documents, signatures, any type of property maintenance or decisions, everyone involved made it a priority to get these things handled quickly and efficiently for us. I especially want to recognize Brent Walker. Brent was pivotal throughout the process and was always available when something was needed to be addressed. And I want to thank you, Brent, thank you personally very much for being so helpful to us. I also want to thank the city and everyone in behind the scenes that assisted along the way. A successful closing is truly a team effort, and I sincerely appreciate the cooperation and professionalism I received from beginning to end. And then finally, and most importantly, I appreciate the confidence you placed in me to represent the city of Montgomery and its people. I never take that responsibility lightly. It was a true privilege to work on your behalf and help bring this property to a successful close. It was an honor.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next item on your agenda is presentation number five. Presentation and discussion by Brett Keist, Appendant Keist Collaborative regarding the proposed Unified Development Ordinance, UDO.

Presentation I'll give you a little a little intro where we are and what we're doing here today. I wanted Can you see right there All right, no problem. I wanted to touch base with you and tell you what brought us here and why we kind of scheduled this. We've been working on this for quite a while, and I know you guys have heard inputs from us and the staff and everybody else. Zach, the attorney, everybody's been reading this. We've been working with him. It's taken quite a bit to get where we are. This is your opportunity to listen to what's been going on, to ask the questions because we're getting very close to being able to close this out and adopt this in the month of September. So this is the opportunity to ask questions. If you hear something you don't understand, this is the best time to do it. We want the feedback. We want to hear from you. If you hear something that you want to learn more about, the attorneys, Zach, or Brett can answer those questions, or myself, any of us. Tilly, she has lots of answers. So that's it. Go ahead.

Well, good evening. I'm Brett Geist, CEO of Kendi Keys Collaborative. Address is 77 Sugar Creek Center Boulevard, Suite 600 at Sugar Land. Pleased to be with you tonight, as Brent indicated. This has been a long process for a variety of reasons, but we're to the point where we're very, very close. So I wanted to give you an update on where we are. Next slide, please. So this shows you the organization of the Unified Development Organs, or UDO. We delivered really four different modules because we broke the first one into modules one and 1.5. So that's where we have all the zoning districts and all the setbacks and heights and other types of standards. The permitted and conditional land uses, site development and design. I'm going to talk to you a little bit more about that tonight. Floodplain and floodway development didn't change. We simply brought that from your current ordinance into the new format and then measurements and word usage. Module two, you can see what was included there. We've been going back and forth with staff of recent on the tree preservation standards. Brett and Seth has been very good about reading it from their perspective, making sure that it's something they can understand and administer and trying to keep it simple and straightforward, but yet achieve the outcomes that we're intending to get. And then module three is basically all the procedures. please so these are all the deliverables that we've sent to the city over time most recently last week we just worked through the thoroughfare plan which is basically you know, text out of the county shows kind of your larger streets, but they do not get down into the collector roadways and some of the connections within and between some of your neighborhoods and how the whole city is going to tie together. This is critically important. In the past when we haven't had this, as you know, we have lots of neighborhoods where dead ends and circuitous streets and It makes it very difficult to move through and across the city. And so we want to be able to make sure that people are able to move freely without having to get back out on, you know, 105 to go down to two places when they can just go across access and make sure that there's adequate collector roadways, which all your residential streets feed to, and that feeds out to your major streets. or two roadways. So that'll be delivered, the revised draft will be delivered tomorrow. And then everything else is all the UDO pieces. Next please. So the UEO implements the comprehensive plan. So you have a comprehensive plan. We made sure that we were making reference to that and we were following the policies and initiatives and the objectives that were spelled out in that plan. Should you ever be challenged on a zoning case, you always want to be able to look back to the comprehensive plan and point your finger and say, this is the adopted plan that we relied upon. So from the land use, the land use plan, the zoning districts match the land use plan, the districts there. And you can see some of the objectives that are identified in the plan and the response to some of the different sections of the UDO that are included. Next slide, please. So for downtown, obviously revitalize, encourage Enfield, work streetscapes, all those things are addressed within the code. And housing, expanding housing options, allowing mixed-use housing and support housing near amenities. So we've got districts that provide for a variety of housing types, not obviously just your single family or a large lot, but we do have a land development district and R2 district to some extent. And then particularly having transition standards. So if you live in a home now and you have a field behind you, you want to make sure that whatever might come in your backyard is going to be compatible or going to have a good transition. So that could not only be lot size, but it all could be landscaping, screening, fencing, whatever that might be. Next slide. Two other categories, mobility, connectivity, walkability, sidewalks, biking, improved connectivity. All those things are addressed and then same way with open space and landscaping. I'll be talking to you a little bit more about that later in the presentation here. Next slide. As I mentioned, compatibility. Every community and every development ordinance wants to achieve compatibility between different types and scales of development, making sure we're protecting neighborhoods and personal investments. So the UDO has spent a lot of time on design standards and buffering and landscaping and other things to make sure that we're providing for that. and then the plan becomes action through the udo so basically for every element of the cop plan there's a response within the udo so since we last met with you there's a few changes and these many of them came from staff review zach's review attorney review etc so um let me get to the right spot make sure So the proposed districts are on the left-hand column. the corresponding districts on the right. So your R1 is still R1, your R2 is still R2. We have a new downtown district. As you know, downtown has always been zoned the same thing as every other commercial district, even though it's entirely unique. So we wanted to make sure to have standards that mimic the rest of downtown and what exists there today. And then your commercial and institutional and industrial districts are all the same. The plan development district, if you recall, it had expired. And so we have new standards in there for So originally when we drafted it, we had some kind of different development options where people can have smaller lots with increased open spaces and things of that nature. Basically provided for development clustering. We simplified that. So we removed that requirement. We still provide for open space. Your compensating open space provision is still in there. We're just doing it in a different way. And then we've added variations for lot size and rear setbacks. So for instance, if there's a new subdivision coming in that's R1 that has 9,000 square foot lots and they are beside or back up to a one acre or larger lot, it requires that those lots be 70% the size of the one acre lot. So just those, else can be, you know, single family. But again, you know, you've probably heard it before. Everybody, you know, is concerned about the value of properties and the impact on their property. So that's part of the reason why we do that. And all the regulations are in tables that spell out a lot of areas and widths and depths and all the setbacks. And then we have graphics in there to help Next slide. As I mentioned, we have transitioned between your different districts. So whenever there's a difference in building scale or height or the massing of a building, or just the intensity of the land use, we've built in transition standards. And the purpose is really to reduce the impacts on privacy, on shadowing in certain instances, as well as on the visual character and value. And so an example is a maximum two-story apartment has to be at least 50 feet away from an R1. There's requirements for building separation, heights, and buffer yards. The buffer yards are based upon the housing type. So basically, the bigger the difference between the intensity of uses, the larger the buffer yard, the more landscaping that's required. When there's a non-residential use next to like a commercial use, whatever that might be, office or retail has to be a hundred foot away from R1 and 50 foot away from R2. And then there are also building design standards. If the district provides for say a three-story building, it has to step down to two stories, you know, so it's more in line with the two-story single-family home. So the image there you see on the right is apartments, and then you have single family. And again, depending upon the height and the intensity of that use, the buffer yard will shift in the mixture of trees and shrubs, and in some cases, Pre-preservation standards. you have the benefit of being in an area where you have a lot of mature vegetation that contributes to the aesthetic of the community and the character of the community so we want to make sure that you know we're not being too difficult for development but at the same time if they're able to preserve trees to the maximum extent practicable we want to do that we've simplified the standards to ease the administration so there's not you know any massive tree surveys or anything like that that are required. But if there are trees you know, along roadways that exist now, we wanna preserve those. We have like a 30 foot preservation width. So you see the difference between the top photo and the bottom photo where we can preserve trees along our streets. And then we have landscaping requirements on the individual sites themselves. But if there is open spaces provided and they're able to preserve the trees, we expect them to do that. There is a new open space requirement. It's actually in the subdivision standards. Basically, it requires a minimum of 10% of the total land area. In a planned development, it requires 20% because you have mixtures of housing types and just more intensity. And so you usually want like a common green or open space or even small parks throughout that. And then it provides for no more than 50% of that can be within the floodplain, no more than 30% of that can be for stormwater requirements. A lot of those stormwater requirements have to be minitized, so it can't be ditched with weeds in the bottom of it and count that towards open space. If they have a retention and they have fountains and they have a trail around it, things like that, then it can be counted towards slightly or not gonna be maintained, it will not count. And the open space must be equal to the amount required for the current phase, basically each phase of development will have to provide their open space. So they can't say, well, we'll do that later on when I can put in here. you know, the first phase, and then they sell to somebody else, and now you've lost out. So we need to make sure that each phase of development meets their own requirements. And you've always had compensating open space provision, so we have carried that through. So you're used to administering that. The procedures, we did a significant overhaul on that. We dramatically simplified and streamlined them. We consolidated a lot of the processes where they were similar approvals. We removed and folded in some of the standalone permits. So instead of being a separate permit, we're actually at approval now as part of another process. we reduced provision for a lot of ongoing monitoring and technical calculations and things like that that just put a lot of added burden on on your staff and we also removed procedures that they're still out spelled out state law we didn't duplicate or replicate them and we're still continuing to make a few minor revisions but nothing really substantive so um We have put some building and site design standards in for multifamily. And you can see that basically it doesn't provide for square boxes, that stairways have to be internal or covered. You have to have different materials and different colors. You have to have variations in the roof forms. Also, you know, balconies and places where you might have jut outs or building step backs, things like that. So you're not getting just a blank facade. You have different wall planes. And then there's also foundation plantings and things of that nature. So this is an example of an illustrative, if you will, of those standards. So making sure that building entrances are accentuated. There's two or more stories that they're identifying or low articulation kind of the different stories using materials or other other types of architectural methods and we also don't provide for large expanses of blank wall so there's a side elevation or rear elevation they can't have beyond 25 foot that's just a blank wall with you know no architectural treatment or material change or color change or windows or something And then we also have a 360 degree requirement. So if it's visible from a public street or public space or another property, they're gonna have to kind of carry some of the design. It doesn't have to meet the front facade standards, but it has to carry that around all sides So they can all be in one centralized space or it could be broken out like this as long as they're providing for a minimum of 15% of the same thing will apply relative to storm drainage other Now when we first draft last time we're here we had some fairly sophisticated building design standards State of Texas a handful of years ago limits local governments from dictating building returns. So our approach has always been to basically say well We're going to give a menu of options and you have to have three of these things or four of these things and you can pick and choose You know masonry is in there. It's not mandated, but that's one of the choices We thought and together with staff that it would be easier if we just kind of have a straightforward you know, standards so you don't have all these different scenarios and stuff that can be confusing and more difficult to administer. What I would like this evening is to get commission and council's authorization to draft standards that are based upon what you're seeing here. So we would have standards for single occupant buildings. So, you know, just a freestanding bank or a freestanding restaurant or something like that, just a single occupant. where we would make sure that, as you can see by the illustration there, that we have, you know, for every 30,000 square foot of a single occupant building, you have some sort of corner element or tower or something of that nature. Again, your entrances are accentuated. You have different building materials and colors. You have different facade planes. So we have some setbacks of a minimum of 18 inches. And again, that has to be carried around the building. So in the draft that we have right now, we have these illustrations and below the illustrations are the corresponding standards with the numbers that are shown shown on the graphic. And then there's also requirements for building roof-mounted equipment to make sure that that's also screened to have a beautiful building and then have big AC units or whatever else on top that aren't well screened. So this would be the single occupant building design. The next slide is comparable, but it would be a multiple occupant building design. Much like you saw with the multifamily, again, we are delineating between first and second floor. We have modulation of the roof line, so you don't have just one continuous plane along the top. You know, using windows and different materials and things like that to really break up As you know, you've got some pretty great examples in down along number five of some existing buildings that have done a very nice job incorporating many of these same things. So this is something that you're not used to doing. But basically, every individual tenant, we have what we call kind of a building module. And each module kind of has to have its own uniqueness. So you don't just have monotony of these buildings. And then lastly, the multiple building center. So if you have a shopping center and you have out parcels, we don't wanna prevent them from having individuality, but at the same time, we wanna make sure we have some sort of uniform or some consistencies between them. So the out parcels, can have their own uniqueness, but at the same time tying in with some commonality with the overall development complex. So it looks like it was actually designed to go together rather than a bunch of one-offs and every one of them have whatever the franchise architecture is and signage and everything just doesn't feel like it's a very well planned environment. So again, a lot of the same things with having corner architectural elements, providing for pedestrian amenities and outdoor spaces, interior pedestrian connectivity between different buildings and storefronts and things of that nature. So those are three different designs. Let me pause there and just see what thoughts, comments you have. Again, what I'm looking for is, are you on board with this? Or are there certain things that you have more concern about than others? So as we go back and draft it, we know I want to make sure that when that first building goes up after this is adopted that you go.

That's exactly what we were looking for So I just had the one question about the lot size There's just about the space of green space versus the space of a building using a square footage phase So is there a minimum lock size? I think we have a commercial at 15,000 square feet

The only place that that's different is in a plan development. In a plan development, they have to bring you their plans. You have to approve those plans. If they make any changes to those plans, they have to come back to you, get them approved again, and they're filed with the county. So whenever anybody is going to develop a piece within that master plan or adjacent to that, all that's filed with the county. So you have a lot more control. There we're allowing, and I'll show you an example here in a minute, you can have duplexes, you know, triplexes, townhomes, apartment buildings, you can have a mixture in a development. And the lot sizes obviously vary accordingly.

This is the best presentation I've seen from KKC, great job, you nailed it.

Good.

I do have a question. So BCS Capital, they purchased the property. We've not seen really hardcore plans yet. Adopt this tonight, they would have to go according to these, right?

The UDO, when we adopt that, depending on where that is, we haven't approved anything on that.

No, we haven't. We've just approved what we're going to do as far as a 380. There's been no design, correct?

Not on building. Sometimes the development agreement will specify that which regulation is held by by part of that agreement Okay next slide please

This is an example of when you have two different districts, two different uses, different scales that are next to one another. We don't want them right on top of one another.

So again, you have

50 foot of distance or 100 foot of distance depending upon whether it's single family or multi-family. And there are buffer yard requirements. So the buffer yard are spelled out. There's like A, B, C, and D. And then there's a matrix. So if it's single family next to single family, it's an A buffer yard. There's not much required, right? Then as you go from there, I'll have the industrial, then you get up to the D, and it's very, very intensive. And then there's also natural buffer yards where it's just trees. And then there's a structural buffer yard where they may have a fence or a wall along with trees. Or they can do a berm if they have enough space. So that shows you kind of how that works.

Is that 100 foot total, the distance?

This one here is showing 50 foot. So we've got a 20 foot buffer with 15 foot on either side.

The code says it's gonna be 100 foot between commercial and R1, and 50 foot for R2s.

Yeah, so that algorithm looks like R1. It does, you caught me. The code, that's a good point, good catch. The code does say 100 for a single family and 50. This illustration does show 50.

Yeah, it says it up there. It's at the top right over there. It says R1 or R2. R1 or R2.

Each doesn't have the second story.

Yeah. And you notice that the building on the left steps down from two stories to one story. It's within a circus.

So that's how those standards would apply. Next slide.

We have landscaping standards. So for single family, you would have canopy tree in the front yard and then another canopy tree in any yard. So you have a minimum of two that are planted. And then for commercial, there are a combination of canopy trees per lot and then canopy and ornamental trees per thousand square foot of landscape area, as well as shrubs that are required. And then, you know, depending on what they're next to, they might have buffer yard as well. So, and then there's also interior parking lot landscape.

How do you define canopy tree? Is there like a, Yeah. Because if you go to our Kroger, those are supposed to be canopy trees. They're sticks.

Well, what we can do is we could include an appendix that calls out the specific tree types that qualify under canopy and ornamental.

And how about irrigation of all this stuff? Is there a forest irrigation? Is that planned?

So what does that look like if they were to do that and then they put in some canopy trees that are not on the list or they do and they die.

We have the ability to have code enforcement go out there and let them know that this tree is dead and they have 30 days to replace it, rip and replace. Okay. Is there a certain size for the trees, how many gallons?

Yeah, so they're a two-inch caliper, or any shrub is a minimum five-gallon shrub. And if it's an evergreen, it's, I believe, minimum a six-foot. So they're not whips, necessarily.

A five-gallon container.

So the bigger they get, the more difficult it is to keep them alive when you plant them. We don't want them too small because it may take years before they really have any effect. So this is real common of what most cities do.

Is that trees can be placed in clusters and need not be placed at even intervals? Has that hurt us or helped us or what's the pros and cons there? I just want to see the parking lot with all the rich trees clustered here because they didn't want to do anything.

So it would create more of a natural type of environment rather than having this rigidity. So every way you go in town, they're exactly 25 foot apart. Plus, if there are power lines or other utilities, they can group them so they don't have to ask for variance because we can't put a tree there. And it just, you know, they can group them within their open space. So it just gives them more flexibility. They still have to meet the numbers. The shrubbery along the parking lot, though, we require that as a bumper screen along all areas. uh parking areas and parking and vehicular use areas so it may not be a parking lot it could be a drive aisle or it could be a truck lane or whatever that might be if they're adjacent to a public rights away or another property they're required to provide screening and then as i said there's um islands within the parking lots that require a canopy tree as well. So you don't just have 500 spaces out there with no trees or with a few shrubs and an island, right? When you stand back and look across the site, you'll see a variety of trees across that site because they're required every 10 or 12 parking spaces, I believe, you have to have an island. Downtown, there's none required. Obviously, you're very constrained with your auto and so forth, but we show that depending upon what may happen in the future, if somebody were able to provide a tree and some street furniture and stuff, then that would be great, but we don't outright require it downtown. This is just an illustrative example if somebody has a planned development. You see this, well, even in the Houston area and all across the country, people are coming in with a variety of different housing types. So what it does is it allows them to increase their lot count and their unit count by having a mixture of single family and two family and town home and stuff. It helps them meet different markets so that they can meet different price points. So your firemen and police officers and school teachers and everybody else can afford places. They're not all just, you know, large lots that are super pricey. This one actually shows how you can have kind of some neighborhood commercial at the entrance. It's walkable. as well as a large common open space. So in some cases, maybe that's an elementary school or maybe it's ARC or whatever that might be. So that just gives you an idea of what plan development, again, nothing gets approved by right. It has all the standards in there, but they have to bring a plan to you. You review that plan and that plan is adopted as part of that ordinance. and they often do because they don't know what the market's going to do. They don't know what end users might come to them, right? So they may even say, gee, we got, you know, we've got this use come to us and we want to come back and do a plan amendment. So next steps, state law requires you to have at least two public hearings. So generally that's one before the funding and zoning commission and then one before city council. I should mention that the zoning map doesn't have to be changed except for the downtown boundary. That's the only change that you have. So we have proposed a boundary to staff and they are looking at it to align the boundaries. I think it's fairly obvious where the downtown boundaries are. So that would be the only change from what you have. So you would have a DT for downtown district for that area. Otherwise, everything that's zoned today still be zoned the same.

So you're saying we're lifting the historic downtown district name and just making it a downtown district?

Yeah, the zoning order is DT designation. It's downtown. That has boundaries. And as I said, there are standards where We're bringing buildings to the street so they have a maximum setback, not a minimum setback. So we want them to keep that pedestrian streetscape. And then there's provisions in there that if they do a two-story or a false two-story facade, and creating small open spaces and stuff, whether that's for outdoor seating or outdoor restaurants or whatever. Keep in mind that everybody looks at downtown today and says, well, it's pretty much there, right? But who knows what's going to happen in the next 10 or 20 years. Things could start redeveloping or whatever that is. have those standards in place. So somebody can't come in and put, you know, a gas station in downtown and have pumps and a canopy out front that just disrupts that whole historic character. We have, well, first of all, oftentimes when we do this, it's dramatically different than what you've had before. So oftentimes what we will do is we will provide assistance to you for a certain period of time. Oftentimes what we do is we have you adopt an ordinance whereby an applicant posts an escrow fee, and that fee pays our fee. So it doesn't come out of the general fund. So they may post, you know, $2,000. It costs us $1,000 to work with staff, whatever we need to do if we need it. you know, meet with you or what have you. And we spend $1,000 and they get $1,000 back. If it gets very involved, there's lots of meetings and lots of reviews and revisions and things like that, we spend $2,500, then they post another $500. So we have done that in multiple places around Texas. We're doing it in Simonson, Texas right now. So we could help and... working with staff to make sure that they are identifying all of the applicable provisions. When somebody comes in with a plan or rezoning or a site plan, so they're making sure that they're addressing everything how to interpret it or how to apply it to a particular lot, or even talk with a development applicant or an architect. Whatever that looks like, we can be available. Generally, it's just on an hour by hour basis. And we can help give you a new staff report template obviously the standards are a whole lot different so there's a lot more materials to cover in a staff report that you get when somebody submits an application it's basically from staff saying here's everything you need to know about this application it can either be structured as saying if you want to approve it here's the conditions and stipulation if you want to deny it here's the stipulations and conditions We could do a memorandum of staff review processes just to make sure that everything is flowing smoothly, that the communication lines are good, that we're not chopping the ball and things are taking longer than they need to. We want to make sure that when an applicant submits that they're moved through the process and they know what the next step is and when that's happening so they don't get frustrated. um it helps everybody if everything's laid out clearly and you have a schedule of when to submit an application when public hearing notice goes out when the meetings are scheduled when you have to have your comments back things of that nature um so that is one thing that i wanted to point out if that's something you may be interested in and then the last item um last slide We have a new tool that's called a knowledge advisor. So as you recall, your code of ordinances is in the Encode Plus platform. and the UDO is in that same cloud-hosted web-based platform. So somebody will be able to go to, we'll eventually put them together, so they'll be on the same site. But whenever you go into the code, all of the table contents are hyperlinked, right? So you can easily jump there. If you come across a definition, you hover over that definition with your mouse, it pops up the definition. If it makes a cross-reference to the Landscaping Standards or the Parking and Signing Standards, it's a hyperlink, so take it right to those standards. We can link back and forth between the Code of Ordinances and so forth. So since we have those in this platform, and since they will be kept up-to-date, so whenever an ordinance is adopted and sent to us, we codify and publish it within 10 days, okay? it doesn't sit for months. Because if somebody's submitting for development and they're investing hundreds or millions of dollars in the community, they need to know what the requirements are and not have to dig through other ordinances. So they all need to be posted. Since they're in the system, we have this tool that somebody can ask a common language question. So they can say, What are the cities, what are the subdivision requirements? Or I'm submitting a rezoning application, what's the process for that? Or they can even include GIS, so somebody can actually add about an address. So they can say, can I build a restaurant at 110 Cherry Street? And it'll tell them yes or no, here's all the setbacks, here's all the uses. You can click and go to a GIS map. So this came up because in a conversation with staff last week, and I was in their shoes when I was a young planner, we did a whole new unified development ordinance, entirely different than our old ordinance. And it was a lot of work for those first few applications because, you know, we couldn't remember where everything was at, we couldn't remember how everything went together. And the question was, if somebody splits an application, how do we know all the different bits and pieces that go with that? This tool would answer that question. So an applicant, council member, commissioner, staff member, member of the public can ask any question of your code of ordinances or your UDO, and it will give them a response. And it is trained only on your ordinances. So it does not permit any scanning across the internet to bring in something that doesn't apply. And it's all entirely factual. Don't give any suggestions and your recommendation is nothing. It just says, here's what the code says about your question. So that would be an add-on to the online code. We just came out with this like three weeks ago.

So this would be on our website, did it hyperlink to yours, and then that information, you host the software on the back end?

It's all, yeah, it's hosted by Microsoft Azure, so you've got 99.99% guaranteed uptime, and it's all backed up and secured and everything. We're on the cloud, too, so when they send us ordinances, we can immediately publish those ordinances right to your site. And we would update your, probably not your code of order, well, it could be your code of orders and your UDO. You know, you're making changes along the way. So we provide at least two updates annually and can do more as needed to make sure that when somebody asks a question, they're getting the latest and greatest answers.

What's the SLA to get the answers? So, like, well, say, for instance, we changed the code of ordinances. What's the SLA to get those up and published?

We do the ordinances within 10 days. We would probably take another Another 10 days or so to make sure that it's online. Obviously, we're using new technology. The way it did have to be, you'd have to update the entire code of ordinances if you made one change. But what we're getting ready to deploy is you only have to update that one section, and it'll update the whole thing. So, again, I will get back with Brent on that.

You said it's an add-on.

Yeah, so there's not a one-time fee, so we bill it for you at no additional cost. But we roll that into the annual cost because it's going out and utilizing different models, and every time somebody asks a question, there's a usage charge. So obviously those amount up. So it's $3,500 annually. So we've done some math, and basically, if you get a couple inquiries a day, it'll pay for itself in four to six months.

Yeah, so...

So we have access to a whole range of different models so depending upon the question that it's asking it will basically utilize Mars language or is it?

Yes. So it's not agentic? So I can write you an agent Well, yeah, the only

The only thing is that this is drawing directly from your official code of ordinances and code of order, and it's in the platform. By having it in the platform, it's all, we go through the process, it's all indexed. They're governed documents, so there's a lot of parameters on that. You could try to use a PDF and use ChatGPT, but you may or may not get the right answer.

So you say X.

Usage there's no that's that's covered. That's why we do an annual fee, but we're not concerned about the usage Yeah, I mean oftentimes whoever is calling or asking questions of staff multiple times a day, whether it's an applicant, whoever it might be, and they're going to have to chase that down, find information, email to them, call them back, all that type of stuff. So what we're trying to do is to limit that to the extent it's practical. They can answer their own questions on their phone or on their laptop. And then once they have that, when they come to staff, they're more intelligent about what they're asking. So in a short amount of time, they'll get their answer right up front, or they'll call staff and say, hey, I got this, and I just want to verify. There's also a disclaimer. Every time you ask a question, you get a response. There's a disclaimer that says staff is the official answer, right? So we don't want you relying on this tool as the end-all, be-all. You always have to verify with staff.

I understand what that is.

Yes, yeah.

And you know, when orders get posted to various interpretations, depending upon the user, so.

Who owns the data, you or us?

You.

We don't take any data. Lots of other software companies, all the data you put in, it becomes their data no matter what, to get it back out, to extract it as a cost.

It's all yours. Yeah, there's no additional cost. It can be exported to a Word file,

Any hour of the day, any day of the week.

Which platform did you say you were using?

Oh, gosh. I would have to ask my AI engineer.

Like I said, we utilize a service that has access to a variety of different AI models.

I'll email Brent in the morning. He can pass it on to you.

How much time do you think this would save you, Tilly?

Time to save me?

How many inquiries do you get in a day's time?

A lot of inquiries. The inquiries come from engineers and architects. They would still rather get it from a live person. I'm still directing them and having to read the ordinance with them. to verify that they understand exactly what the ordinance says. So even if they know the location of the ordinance, even though I refer them to that location, I email them the information, they still wanna phone call. So. Need for hand holding.

And we say there always has to be human intervention, right? This is never the answer. Yeah, different cities have done it for different periods of time. It's whatever you want it to be. So basically, it's to get Zach and Tilly and anybody else in the city up to speed so they feel comfortable. And when applications come in, they know exactly where to go with the code. This would go a long way towards helping with that. What is your cost of that? That tool is the $3,500 annual.

Is this going to be for six months?

That is, we just have an hourly rate charge, and there is a fee that the applicant posts with their application. So I believe in Simonton right now, they post $1,500. And like I said, if we spend $1,000, they get $500. So sometimes it'll be different depending upon, if they're submitting a plan of development, it's a lot more involved, so maybe $500.

if they need assistance with it. Is that in charge for that or is that gonna be the significance?

Yeah, because our contract for this project will be done and gone. So it's basically an on-call agreement and we can, you know, say we'll have a weekly meeting with Tilly and Zach or bi-weekly or if you want us to talk to somebody, we can. But basically they can look at it and say, did I catch everything?

Well, it was May.

The deliverable date, I think, was May of this year.

We went for a period of, what, six, seven months without a point of contact, so that halted us. And then recently, staff, to their credit, has really dug into it, and they've been giving us a lot of their feedback, and so we've been

can you revisit your explanation to the mayor about the historic downtown and then you said no on it downtown so When people look stuff up, is it going to say historic downtown? It certainly can. Right now, it's just called downtown, but that's a simple change. I'm just asking because I wanted to clarify because I knew you said, no, we call it downtown. So I was like, is that something we want to hang on to? I'm just asking the question, historic downtown.

I can explain part of that. You know, the historic overlay that is down there now has no teeth in it. It's really a suggestion. I mean, it was a good idea, and it's a much broader, it covers some of the houses and that, but it really doesn't cover, it doesn't make them do anything. I know you've read it because, you know, I mean, it gives them some design suggestions and things. What this, the difference was what we're trying to do or what we tried to deliver was a downtown district that you could control setbacks, heights, you know, looks and all that. You're actually controlling something. You can always have the suggestions of how you want it to look like a 18 building like it says now. There's some weird suggestions in there, but that's exactly what it is. It's a suggestion. There's nothing that we can say, you have to do this. This gets it a little closer. It's still insane. You're completely limited, but they're not going to plow half of it down and then put big setbacks and put porches out front because we're going to keep them

street level facing you know tight tight areas like it is now that's kind of the point of it i imagine the historic preservation ordinance came along because downtown didn't have its own district so it didn't have enough standards and so i'm guessing maybe that was put in as a step toward what we've got now yeah i i the reason i'm saying it is because when you live here for quite some time you uh

would tie everything into it like come to historic downtown for you know the cookie walk or for the historical home walk or you know that was our ploy to gather people into downtown um i'm just i just want to clarify

You can keep that. The district is only for controlling the architecture.

Okay, that's all. Just want to know why as people go, is it downtown or is it historical downtown? Guarantee it. They'll ask. They'll go, what happened to historical downtown? Nothing. We just took the word historical off. It's a question they'll ask.

So I have a question about the PD. Thank God it's now expired. But anything that happens on Pleas Morgan, we don't get those ugly institutional buildings ever again, we can institute this, correct?

In the expired PD? Well, yes, because it has, again, there's no teeth in that either anymore. You know, there's Most of it's filled out, but as we go into the new development that's still going to be in some of those areas of that PD, this will take over from that.

Awesome.

I just wanted to clarify something about that planned development. So the planned development district is a zoning district that did not expire. The development agreement expired. It's indefinite. It's indefinite, yeah. Until you rezone it. Otherwise, the plan development is still there. It's the development agreement that's expired.

There's no piece to it again, the plan development. No, it was a huge one.

It was finalized when the development agreement expired. Right.

I won't say I'm shocked.

We have to do to get the ball rolling. We have to have a public hearing.

We just allow staff to finalize what we have and bring it to us in September.

Yeah, we have a few more things to touch up on. And that's one of the questions for you guys. I mean, I could send everybody the 400 page thing or whatever it is, but I didn't feel like that was a value. I don't think anybody's really, but we can send out whatever you want us to send out. You can take the time to read, you know, parts of it that you want. That's why I wanted to hear the feedback tonight. You know, as long as the direction is right, I think we, you know, you'll adopt this and we'll move forward. And it's really a, just like you said, you know, a couple of meetings and full adoption.

So state law says public hearings, plural. So you need to have these two, but you can also, if you're interested in timing, you can also do a joint meeting where the commission will take action and then the council will take action. So you can kill two birds with one stone. So,

And when it's adopted, it's moving forward. So anybody that rushes in here and they're in the middle of developing a yes and no, are they referring to this? Are they referring to old stuff?

I want to be clear that there are vested rights laws in the state. So if somebody has made application, they're basically vested. The question was asked, if somebody plats a large property, then each owner, landowner comes in and wants to do a site plan over the next several years, then they will have to go through the site plan process. But that plat, we can't, you know, halt them and make them start over again.

Did you make the ordinance about two years ago? Yes.

Yes. And that goes to where? Well, that's what I'm trying to figure, because when we sit down for our meeting and they bring all the paperwork to us, now we have to sit there and we have two new members that are going to go, did you already talk about this? And we're going to have to dig back and see. And I guess we just have to be more proactive with our agenda and say, hey, this was. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think it's assumed too, but if we do make these rules, can you share with these new developments that are happening a suggestion? You know, at least throw it out there. Yeah. Because they can not only BCS, but the other side of HEB. Yes. This is what we're going for. Try to influence at least, you know, don't just go, okay, well, they're just doing what they're doing.

They haven't done anything, so they would be a part of this.

On the other side of HEB? Yes.

And that big old dirt pit?

Yeah, they were ready to move dirt, so... Was there money?

Yeah, see where it is, because once it comes to it, it would probably be very understanding, we hope, to negotiate, to look aesthetically.

The way that this is versus what we had, the financial impact is totally different. So I'm sure that they would love to be grandfathered.

Maybe they'll be more agreeable. It's more pleasant to be submitted. Like, I mean, we can hope for the best.

That's how everybody, let's just suggest it to the people that are, you know, in limbo right now, at least just to share it, just to hopefully they want to fit in. Cause you know what? They might go, well, I want to do other projects. So maybe they will go along with the program. So hopefully.

have a few temporary ordinances that we can correct to, you know, and we can clean up the tree stuff and, you know, because we've been having to kind of, we've been in limbo on some of this. So there will be some things we can suggest and work with. And a lot of these developers are more than happy to, you know, I mean, last week, cost them a whole lot of money.

And that was a question I had. Are the developers, are they like these, or do they just go in with it because they don't have a choice, or do they actually want these changes?

They'd love to get away with it. Are you finding that?

Are you asking me? Yeah, no, for you. Are you finding that they're actually going with it, or is there a lot of fight?

Well, once they're adopted, then there's no choice. Well, your national retailers, national chain, they do this all the time. You'll probably get some pushback. People want to be there. They'll do what they need to to be there.

praise to existing software agreements that we have and then discuss the difference in money for the how much more time do y'all need to get these other little points settled other decisions I think we can do this in September like he mentioned I think we can get it done and they will be calling the public meeting

I like jointly.