Historical Advisory Commission - Regular Meeting

Believe it was they melted out of your. Here's what they've been but I'm looking at it going, that's full dimensional lumber.

You don't

see that. Okay. This one's old. And I'm they're like, we wanna tear off the roof and do this. And I'm like, we're gonna keep the same pitch yet. We're putting gonna put mission style tile up.

In fact, we've got the months.

I know. Oh, sure. And they go, oh, no. We're gonna change it because we're gonna take all the siding. There's gonna stuff it. I just wanna make it a little Yeah. I I wanna see about you got any Hacienda, and I'm like, can you check out if that's historic? It's got the original steaming barn doors on it. Still to this day, people are living in it.

Remember. No. That's Did see the stable doors? Or anything in it?

No. They just want me to know tell them if the roof can handle load, and my answer was no. Sullivan, this you. That to my windows. Yeah. That that ain't gonna

That's, like, three

two inches on center. No way.

Just tell them.

And I had it I do all. I had

it on my us to reinforce.

I go first and go to the county and ask them because it's over a 100 years old. What do you need to do?

I enjoy it. Yeah.

That's the first thing you should do. So See

it there.

We'll see what they go with the you know?

Oh, yeah. Know. See what they go.

That was a great one.

Okay, Sal, Michael. Mhmm. Way of a killer. Yeah. We're gonna get going here. I'm talking to the Hi, Kelly. Listen. What's going? Oh, Kelly. Hello.

Thank you, guys. Sorry. Just a lot of moving parts today for Steph. So looks like you've got a quorum, and I'll listen. Thank you. Sorry.

Yeah. Hi, Judy. Okay. So I hope everybody had a nice Thanksgiving, and this is our last meeting of the year. So I'll call to order the Thursday, 12/04/2025 meeting of the Monterey County Historic Resources Review. Can I have a roll call, please?

John Skorkas? Yes. Kelly Morgantini?

Here. Village. Judy

McClelland. Present.

Sheila Lee Prader. It's Prader, and I'm here. Salvador Munoz? Present. And Belinda Paloma?

Present. Okay. So I'm just trying to think here. So, you know, Phil left. Mhmm. So I'm

I'm Jordan Demons Polacco. I'm one of the new assistant planners. I've been here at Monterey County for about six months, and I'll be taking over as our, HRB secretary for Phil. He's now working as the senior planner for the city of Marina.

K. Thank you. Yeah. I think you could be doing that. I'll hurry up the challenges. She said the challenges. Right.

Just listen to us.

Okay. So at this point, I'll open the floor to public comment if anybody from public would like to speak. Is somebody

I don't see anybody on Zoom.

Okay. Nobody here. Nobody on Zoom. So vote for public comment. Any agenda additions, deletions, corrections? There are no additions, deletions,

corrections at the moment. Okay.

So schedule matter today is review of our CLG government annual report between course '25. I can go through that. Are you familiar with that, or do you wanna run us through that as your first task?

Phil had actually drafted it before he left. Uh-huh. So I'm still a little bit unfamiliar with everything in regards to that since I found out the day that he was leaving that I was becoming HR VP secretary, so I only had an hour and a half with him. Cool. So

Well, it looks like we did send it out. We are still missing a couple of your guys' information. If you guys could email those, and we'll plug those in to get that finalized to send it out to classes and that you guys

Mhmm.

Have done.

Okay. So if you wanna just probably go page by page, anybody has any comments or changes? No. On the page first page, is there any comments, corrections, or anybody? Oh, I've

got a comment. I'm not sure if it's on the first on the first page or not. So it looks like it's not. Sorry about that.

Well, if you'd like to address it now, Kelly, while we're going through.

Sure. It's in the section that says who does what when. So it's and I we brought it up before, and maybe this is for Jordan, and this will be brand new. But it's about the HRB's review of solar panels. And I it looks like it might fit, and I think it's on page three under review responsibilities, who has the responsibility for design review or certificates of appropriateness.

In our discussion, says minor alterations, including some roof repair projects, etcetera, are within that are within the are reviewed by the staff level and not required to be reviewed by HRRB. And I think I would still like to so for Jordan, I'd still like to push that back to Mel or or Jackie or somebody. We have a memo about solar panels because solar panels either we should have a subcommittee to look at them or adopt some kind of policy that says we don't need to look at them as long as they're on the side you can't see. So it's not asking to fix the policy now, but I just wanted to bring that up that where we talk about minor alterations, whether or not we would want to include in this CLG, whether or not we consider installation of solar panels a minor alteration. So that's that's the extent of it.

Just kinda keeping hoping to keep pushing at it to keep it going until we get a resolution. But that was really the only comment I think I had on the whole thing.

Okay. No. That's good because we've always talked about that. We've never had an answer on how to deal with that other than we know we can't deny it, but it's just location and design. Right?

So if we can add that in. Well, let's just go into comments. If anybody has comments on any pages, check on. Do you think did you need a copy?

No. I was reading his. They all I forwarded my information to them, and I noticed that they have updated it. But I know Mike has some comments circled. Okay.

Mike and Mike Go to Yes. Yes.

Mhmm. Text things.

Okay. Mhmm. You want

On page four. K. Second number two, second paragraph, the third fourth line, I think it probably means, our board considers. As an advisory body, the blank considers. And then on the next line

You need to insert h r r b. Yeah. Okay.

And then, two lines down, just the spelling impacts switching c to a back. And then on three down at the bottom, you have two and the and the

I do the second bullet point. Second

bullet.

Got it.

That's all I found.

Maybe oh, Michael, it says your term is up now.

I noticed that.

You're on that.

So who's your who's your supervisor, Mike?

She's the newest one.

Kate Daniels.

Daniels. Okay. She might Yeah. Check with her tonight.

I guess I did see a couple of other things too, but I already had my turn when everybody gets gets done. I'll

No problem, Kelly. Go ahead. Go ahead, Kelly.

Okay. Well, one of them was the education. I took the same I didn't report it maybe, the same, class that Mike did for an hour on the Palm Springs. Not sure what the title was, but I sent it in Palm Spring Palm Springs School of Desert Modernism. So if we could add my name down there for the one hour webinar, it's it's on the twelfth.

And then there's a couple places that are, if we don't that are highlighted in yellow, and I think Phil put in there, says ask us, ask the board if we've done anything more. And I think one of the first one is of those is on page 13. It says ask AHRIB for input on the goal during the hearing. Either we don't have anything more and just take that out so it doesn't look like we're sending that off to to the state with that question. And then same thing on page 14, ask HRRB for input. And I think we're probably fine for just taking them out. I just think we need to take those two references out of takes it out of the draft stance.

Is there anything that we've been talking about? Trying to think that that questions have come up that we haven't had answered, you know, of process or procedure. It might seem like things come up and and, you know, we're always looking for answers. I can't pinpoint it now. And there's still the grants.

You know? Last conversation with Craig, you know, he said if there's something we want to bring it up to his attention grant wise Mhmm. And help look for the money. So, you know, we haven't had a grant. You know, we haven't done anything since May left, I think, as far as grants go or any any kind of reports or studies. So if something comes up that seems interesting, let's see if we can approach it.

We talked about further context statements, such

as Carmel Donnell Valley.

Yeah. Mhmm. So, I mean, if we see the next round of grants that come up, you know Mhmm. It's possible, then they can certainly do it. So anything else with this?

Let's go back on page 13. Under g, the goals. Mhmm. The fourth was work with realtors and the public to provide information on historic resources, and and that's where we're deleting into it. Was there anything to be said? Was there a response to d four?

As far as moving forward with that? Yes. Not not officially. And as far as personally talking to some realtors that have projects come up, properties come up, yes. But

Is there something that should be stated then in number four to reflect that?

I mean, it's just been informal. You know? I mean, as I see properties come up and and, you know, like an open house or something and you meet the realtor and you just bring it to their attention, I mean, that's as far as I've gone with it. But

is there any point to say something like informal meeting, informational meetings, and With realtors. With realtors, or occasional have a occasional inform informative meetings with realtors. I mean,

we certainly have that in. So That

would be the response to the that.

Number four. Mhmm. Thank you. Anything else? So, Kelly, I know you were doing some of the training.

Oh, she left. Oh, there you are.

Yes. Sorry.

You were doing some of the training for a while. I know I was out of the picture for a little bit. Are you still is that still happening? Or I I know it the whole department's kinda, I guess, upended with people leaving and new interviews. And Yeah.

So we've we've had one, and that was with the the the first encounter staff. And we have a longer one that I was working with Phil on. And since he's left, we've still got it. So it's they they're kinda grind along slowly. So we're still planning to do it to do an expanded version that goes to the to the planning staff Right. That's, like, more in-depth. So short answer is yes. We have. We don't have dates yet, but, yes, we're we're moving along. Another thing we're wanting to do, we have to check to make sure it's happened and if we wanna put it in the report or not.

But there's there's that list of locally, I I can't get into the word. Anyway, you know, locally significant, I guess. Locally significant structures and places that are not part of the local register, but they're still considered to be something that you need to take advantage of looking at. Sorry. Catfight.

So what was gonna happen is this the staff was going to actually take that list and put it into what's called a SELA, which is an identification program so that if somebody in planning is looking at a particular project, that potential fifty year old program fifty year old project or whatever would be identifiable. Because right now, if you're, like, if you're brand new or you don't know where to go look, you're not gonna understand or to know that there's potential historic resource just by looking at the documents that they have now. That's a long winded way to say that's something else we're working on. I don't know if we wanna how we wanna explain it, but that's something I think we could be able to report with our next CLG report, if that makes any sense. During the cat fight when I had to move in the house.

Sorry about that.

That's basically just identifying historic prop or potentially historic properties on the count on the county web GIS or Acela. Mhmm. I think it would be better on GIS, but I don't know if they're interlocked or how they I don't know how that system works. Because everybody goes to GIS to find their hazards. If somebody goes, oh, do you, you know, do you have a liquefaction risk? Do you have a fire risk? Do you have a blah blah blah risk? They all go to the GIS. And that's what I think the staff uses. Because when you go in and type in your name, what's the address, they pull it out and hand it to you to bring to the planner.

So, I know they use the GIS quite religiously on determining zoning, other types of hazards, and I would think that would be a nice place to stick it put it Mhmm. Because, you know, they have the, you

know Mhmm.

Second lot restrictions, zoning restrictions are all identified on there.

Don't they have a historic category on there now already?

Yeah. We have a historical resources category, which has historical sites, the Spreckels Historical District, and then archaeological sensitivity. And then we also have additional buffers for where resources have been found. And so, there is some correlation between Acela and, GIS, but, I can definitely try to organize a meeting with Kelly to see what her and Phil have been communicating about in regards to that project.

Because it doesn't list potential, though. I mean, it lists, like, known resources. Right?

I honestly, I've never seen it

now. If there's a list, Gordon, I can I'll send it to you. So it's it's one of those kinds of things that's like, if you know where you where to look, you find can it, but that's not fair because it's not easy. But, yeah, Jordan, I'll do that. I'll I'll send you what I'm talking about.

That's the county list. Right?

As well. Yeah. Liz Gonzales also knows about it because she was one who's gonna work with Joanna or somebody like that to see if we could put that in as something that pops up without having to really have to go search for it.

Okay. Mhmm.

That is the Monterey County site list. Correct, Kelly?

Yeah. Yes. The specific it exists in the PDF in Right. One of the folders, and that's pretty much the only place it's at. It's not doesn't it's not filtered down into all the different sites.

The beauty is I have that list, but every time I go to look for it, it takes me an hour to find it because it's in a little book stuck in the corner. It's crazy.

So that needs to happen then.

That would be more helpful. I mean yeah. Definitely. Mhmm. It'd be easier for planners to see that. But the the question on the application, is is this is is the house or the building that you're under is over fifth over what is it? A 100 years old, 50 years old on the application?

50.

50.

50.

And there are so many that check yes that I don't think they ever ask, oh, since it's older, do you know if it is historic or not?

I always want that click no when it is. Yes.

I know. It's a 200 and it's not only older than 50. It's just a 100 years old, but that's why it's older than 50. But

When we're issuing demo permits or demo rebuilds, if they do in the initial application request form check off that structure is over 50 years old, then we will ask them if they know if there's any historical significance. And then from there, staff, if they pay for it, will provide a application checklist that will require for them to potentially get a historical resource report. And so that's, right now, higher management is trying to reevaluate what route to go for just simple demo permits. And I personally have a few simple demo permits of structures that are over a 100 years old. Mhmm.

But they have been deemed not historical by Meg Clovis and such, so they haven't needed to come here. So there's gonna be more of a streamlining process that they're gonna work on within the next year, and then, hopefully, we can provide more clarity to you on what the next steps are if, it affects the HRRB.

So in other words, if there's a structure that's 50 years of age or older, someone who's qualified such as May is hired to go out and evaluate whether it looks like it can qualify as a stored resource.

Mhmm. Okay. Shut that off.

So how many of those

I don't know. Do you

have any idea how many of those

are being evaluated?

Structures at the moment, I'm not sure, but just because it there's so many planners right now, and we're just trying to get everything streamlined because of the backup that we had with so such little staff. They're they're we don't come across a lot of structures over 50 years old, so it's mostly been in North County Coastal and in Pebble Beach. But, yeah, they've already had a lot of historical reports already done on the projects or yeah. So not that I'm aware of at the moment. I don't get the numbers on that.

Okay. It'd be kinda nice to know which ones have lost their integrity you know, because you'll see one coming down. And, I don't think there's any way to really document that. But So subjective. Yeah.

Because I have people, this

thing is just falling to the ground.

And I'm going, people living in it. It can't be falling to the ground. There's people in it.

Well, we've had a few where And,

I mean, literally, they just replaced all the windows, and I'm like, what are you thinking? Doc Ricketts' old house. And I'm like, I can't tell you to tear it down. I don't know what to tell you. It's not that rickety. Made me think that was funny.

Okay.

So, yeah, that's that's a a lot harder question. But when you ask the the one thing, and I know I've heard this from several the qualified historians going, can't they just say go and get an opinion? Because many of them that don't meet, they go, you have to go get a report. The owners or the clients are running out saying, need to get a report. And they're coming back saying, I just need a letter. This is not historic. Don't waste your time. I'm not filling out the full DPR because it's it's a no. And they're saying they keep coming the clients keep going back, no. I need the report.

And they're going, I don't do a report for anything that doesn't have look at it. That's not gonna make it. And there's so I've heard that from the the professional side of the, qualified historians that are going, can't we just write a letter? He probably could. Just say a letter. I've reviewed it. It doesn't qualify. It doesn't meet this whatever. And then But if it is truly a historic building that's lost its integrity, that's a different monkey. You've got to write a report on that.

But Right.

Just to get the initial, don't waste your time about it because this isn't historic, is sometimes they just want it. They would request it just come boil down to a letter. And I'd I'd think that seems reasonable. But

So does that not take place now at all?

I I hear there's a lot of argument because they're like, no. I need a report. Then they'll come back going, well, number one, I don't have time for a report, but I can write you a letter. I don't think a letter is good enough, and I don't know if a letter is good enough because I usually get dropped out of the conversation at that point. You know? They just call me for fast, free advice, and then, okay. I'll talk to you later, Clint.

No. It makes sense when it's obvious to a historian. Yeah. That is not that a letter would be sufficient, you know, to administer it. But, I I don't know how we

approach that. I'm not sure how the how it's directed in your policy.

It's directed for a report, but I have also found that issue as well for previous projects where, it just has taken months, and it's delayed their entire project just for that one article that they need to deem the their structure not historical. Mhmm. So I can have maybe have a discussion with my supervisors and Craig to see what going forward could be the procedure to save money in that regard since I have had applicants complain about how much Okay. Money and time was spent

on it. Because if it's historic loss, it's significant. So that's one thing. But if it's not historic, then I don't see why a letter can

Yeah.

Be sufficient for that. Okay.

But even making that decision requires someone who understands how to evaluate it.

No. It'd be a historian. Well, that's the way

it's be a qualified historian. Yeah.

Yeah. We have an entire list of the qualified professionals that Monterey County has approved on our website. So K. Mhmm. Okay. Keller, are you talking to us?

No. She's talking to

somebody else. Sorry. So are we done with Sorry.

I'm sorry about that. Yes. I was talking to

somebody else, but I'm here.

Oh, I think we can lip read.

That's like No. Please know. That.

Don't worry. So anybody have any more comments on the report, or should we approve the draft, or do we need a a vote on approval? Yes. Do we

need an approval on it? Mm-mm. Okay. I make a motion to approve, the draft as with the corrections that we have noted here today at the meeting. I'll second that.

Okay. Any discussion? And we'll provide the information that you brought individually for our training and stuff. Yeah. Okay. No. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Practice approved, and we'll provide our training and whatever other information we need to do. Okay. Any other discussion, conversations on our last meeting here? Any we need to put elections on the agenda for January?

Not that I will worry about.

Mm-mm. Oh, over here.

We'll set that out Okay. In January, then we could. Do we still have to do a nominating? And then Last time, there's not all of the same meeting. Yeah. I know. I

think that's fine. So let's

just get someone to nominate for the nominating committee so Sal and I can just nominate the same people. Yes. Sal and I will be on the nominating committee for next

Okay. This way we don't

have to volunteer that day. It's like, yeah. We've got a plan.

There you go. Okay. And

we'll talk to you, John and Kelly, in the in the near next thirty days. Okay. Protocol, and that's it. And since that date falls on, a holiday, it's gonna be one today. Okay.

Okay. K. That works. That works fine. Mhmm. So any other exciting stories or anything going on? I know there's a training today right now. Yeah. The CPF had it. Yeah. I saw that. I know Michael and I saw the one on Tuesday. I don't know if anybody one. The expositions. Mhmm. It was really good. It was really good. See that and just the amount of design and architecture that went into those. You know? And most of it was all torn down. It was designed to be torn down. They saved a few, but it's kind of a shame to see all that stuff go. So that was good. Mhmm.

They have if you sign up for it, you can listen to a tape of it afterwards. Mhmm. So that's what I got because I'm here today, and I wasn't home the last time.

And on another note with the Pajaro Library building. Mhmm. Mhmm. Sal and I and Mae get probably, what, three or four site visits now Yes. There, and they're doing a pretty exceptional job. Yes. I think on on restoring it, they have that Spectra historic contractor as part of it, and they're paying a lot of attention to detail and restoration. And I I think it's pretty exceptional what they're doing up there. It's great. Goodness.

Last our last site visit was on the November 12 with and we reviewed the interiors. Yeah. They're going from the outside to the inside. So Mhmm. You have to, you know, make up to coat the balusters, the staircases, and things like that. Yeah. Mhmm. But they can get about contacting us Mhmm. About site visits and seeing what they're doing and going through that. So it's it's they're doing a good job, which is nice to see.

There may be a potential project that you may wanna agendize for the January 2026 meeting. Caltrans is looking to do repairs to the Rocky Creek Bridge rail.

Bear us. That's them.

What what's that again?

Why would that come before us again?

Just because, you were involved in the early consultation for the Garipata Bridge rail, and it has a good deal of history as well, this bridge. They changed

it again.

Not yet. No. They sent a consultation letter to Craig, and then he forward it to me saying that you may be interested.

The bridge?

Yeah. The Rocky Creek Bridge rail.

It's so beautiful now.

So they nailed I got one. So they nailed to the side of it. So they bolt all the metals.

They're just doing that to piss us off. I know.

I know they are.

Oh, you won't approve our car. Well, there, we'll just make this big ugly Band Aid on it.

You're worried about the opening. We'll just close those up for you. That's what they did. Right?

That's exactly what they did. God forbid someone fall over that or somebody you know? In the history of the bridges, no one's gone over the edge.

I know that.

The curve before it, yes. The curve after it, yes. The bridge, you know. The guardrails must be working is what I think.

Oh, we trip over the metal rail now. They

use it to climb on to fall over it now. Exactly.

And you can't reduce the speed limits either. Remember?

They did. I know they did. When they did. Yeah.

Yeah. Because, yeah, they figured out they can't get to 65 miles an hour before the bridge. But

Yeah. How many arguments should we yell at that? The the speed.

I do understand their policy, but the policies should be, modified for a specific condition. I don't care where you are in the state of California. There's different specific conditions on every road, and that's why they have the, oh, the little curvy road sign with the, oh, slippery wind wet. Mhmm. That's a special condition. I don't know why they can't do that for the bridges. Oh, but the signs would be ugly. Yeah. Oh, because I mean, yeah, but That guardrail is fabulous. Come on. Much worse.

I know. You can put up a little sign. Was that I did find that clause where they could there is a clause where they can't You can speak a little channel for that. I know

they can't. They just don't wanna go through the study of it. Because that would then require them to do the study and then prove that everybody's going slower than that, and that costs money. Caltrans. But the joy of it is they keep specifying these stupid standards they have to lead to. Oh, it has to be the standard. It's crash standard.

So initially

It's not a design stat. Compared to the They design it. They set it up, they crash a car into it, it works. If it works, they can put it in. That's the design. It's a it's a crash standard. Oh, no. No. We have to have all these can't have it this far apart. It doesn't say that in there. It just says Yeah. Make sure that car stays on the road.

Well, you know what they used to do when we had that committee with Caltrans? Mhmm. And, you know, and they talked about the speed limit. So so they they they put up these pictures of, you know, trucks crashing off bridges. It's like, yeah. I mean, you know, we're adults here. We don't you know? I mean, is this a scare tactic? We we don't know. It's not scaring us. I mean, it's like

Your bigger concern out there pedestrians hanging on the bridge trying to take a photo. That's your biggest problem. And now they they're not allowed on the bridge. Yet But every time I go I swear to god. Every Monday morning, I'm down there. I'm like, what is this? Is this a group of people hanging out on the bridge? What are you people doing? Oh, there's no sidewalks. We have to walk in middle of the bridge. No. Don't cross the bridge on foot. That's what that means. Yeah. Well Walk at your own risk. But, yeah, there's more people diving over the edges of those cliffs and sliding off, trying to give themselves a selfie than than the bridge itself.

If it's on the agenda for chain, who could who who agenda that agenda that? Is that you, or is that Craig? Or who puts on the agenda?

He had just forwarded it to me yesterday, and so I'm gonna have a meeting with him because he said he wanted to provide me with some more historical context.

Yeah. There's a lot

to it. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, that'll be an entertaining way to start the year. Okay. Might as well start it off.

We're breaking into the New Year the right way.

So if it's there, it's there. We'll deal with it. I mean, you know, You have experience.

Give a little background to it.

Yeah. Exactly. So any other comments, questions? No. Everybody ready for the New Year, Christmas, holidays? No. Never. Never. Never. No. No one's ever ready. Come on up fast.

I know. That's for sure.

I don't know what happened. It's like

the little short period between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I don't

know what happened.

And just picking up speed.

My dad always said, you know, halfway through life, you kinda go down the backside of the hill, and life picks up speed, and you just can't ever get caught up. And I said, oh, you're crazy. I'm at warp speed now. Things are whipping past me like, focus on what's in front of you. Avoid everything else. Yeah. So the night before Christmas, I'll be shopping for my grandkids.

Okay. Any comments and anything? Mhmm. Okay. Thank you. Happy holidays. We're sharing holidays. It's so nice. You

have a meeting ahead of you. Do.

Ma'am, with your supervisor. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Well, last time, found us really challenging and exciting.

I know. My undergraduate thesis was on Too much. Adapting architectural vernacular of historical structures for standards of disaster relief within landscapes.

Mhmm.

She is

So I'm looking forward to that. Good place. Another great question. Every time when we go see it