Historical Advisory Commission - Regular Meeting

So. We're

ready to go whenever

you get. Right? But I take the whole renovation. I came before this morning. How

are you? Good. Good.

How have you been? Busy. Good. Wednesday?

Yeah.

Good. I got a vacation and still Mhmm. Still good from that. That was a fun one.

And now you're you're filling the seat if somebody else is on vacation.

Yes. I encourage them all to go on vacation when I came back. It's the same thing.

Yeah. Okay. You ready to go? Yeah. Okay. I'm I'm gonna call to order the Thursday, September. May I have roll call, please?

Yes. Salvador Muniz? Present. Michael Bilich? Present. Kelly Morgantini? Present. Judy McCollin?

Present.

Cherus Korkis? Present. And Melinda Tolupin and Sheila Prater are absent. You have a quorum. Okay. Thanks.

Greg, do you wanna do the protocol of the meeting?

Yes. Of course, we just So, yeah, if you are on Zoom, you please raise your hand when it's time to comment using the raise hand reactions at the bottom of your screen. If you're on a phone, it is star six to raise and lower your hand. I may have that backwards. Star nine to mute and unmute yourself. And that's it. Off the top of my head, I haven't done that in

a while.

Thanks, So at this time, I will open the floor to public comment on non agenda items that are under the purview of the HRV. Do we have anybody on one? I do

not see anybody who has. Okay.

But do we have people on one? Yes. We do. Okay. So has there been any additions? Or

There are no additions, deletions, or corrections.

Okay. Okay. So move on to approval of the minutes for, let's see, April 04/03/2025.

I'll move approval of the April 3 minute.

I'll second.

Okay. Any discussion on the motion? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Nets are approved. So we'll go on to the GraftMed twenty minutes for June 5. You. Mister Chair, I have one correction.

It is on page three of those minutes toward the bottom right before the vote, a paragraph that begins, Belinda Taliban, and it has a reference to the HRRB site design subcommittee. And the word design should be changed to review. I I want us to really be consistent about naming that subcommittee. It's not a design. No. It's not. It's a site review subcommittee. With that change, I would move approval.

I'll second again for the Thursday, June 5.

Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? K. That is approved. We'll move on to scheduled matters. The item today is DNA25250201, Vanessa Leves and Amy Cox Trust. And it's a public hearing to consider recommending that the chief of planning proof of design approval to allow the replacement of existing wood shingle roof roofing materials with a class A fire resistant fiberglass based shingles and an existing 3,200 square foot Gary Barn, and the colors to be weatherwood brown. Project location is 6540 Carmar Valley Road.

I would plan on that. Yeah.

Good morning. My name is Margarita Ochoa. I'm a permit technician, and I'm here to present the DA twenty five zero two zero one Leavitt design approval. So the property is located, as you mentioned, at the 6540 Carmel Valley Road with zoning LDR 2.5 DSRAZ in the Carmel Valley master plan. The applicant, Dennis Levitt, applied for a design approval to replace existing roof materials of a 3,200 square foot historic dairy barn known as the Hatton Dairy Barn.

Due to fire concerns, because the barn is located in a high fire hazard area, the applicant is requesting to replace the wood shingles with asphalt shingles. Prior to installing the shingles, new plywood and an additional layer of fire rated membrane will be installed for further fire protection. Here's a slide of the proposed site plan with the proposed roofing colors and materials. Some history. The Hatton Berry Farm was listed in Monterey County local official register of historic resources by Monterey County's Board of Supervisors due June 2009.

The DPR five twenty three form prepared by Kent CV describes the barn as eligible for listing under the California Register of Historic Resource at the local level for its association with the pioneering California dairyman William Hatton. William Hatton was the owner operator of the Del Monte Dairy, one of the most extensive dairying interests in Monterey County in the late nineteenth century, controlling as many as 4,000 acres at one time. Hatton's dairy milked as many as 600 high quality Holstein and Durham cats daily. A phase two historic assessment for the Hatton dairy barn was prepared by historical consultant Meg Clovis on 07/10/2025 and describes the barn as follows. The Hatton Dairy Barn is a 40 by 80 foot wood frame dairy barn, rectangular in plan that resets the rest on a concrete foundation.

The barn is immediately south of Carmel Valley Road, and it's in a rural neighborhood of older farm buildings and open space. The barn was rehabilitated in 2011. The wood siding on the west, east, and north elevation was replaced with Douglas fir siding that matched the original. The south elevation is original wood that was patched from pieces of wood taken from the other elevations. A new roof was installed using custom made 36 inch wood shakes that replicate the original.

The barn's character definition feature defining features are its rectilinear plan and one story massing, gable roof with louvered windows, door openings on the west and east elevation, stall windows with sliding with shutters, wood siding on the south elevation. The report states that upon h r r HRRV approval of the replacement roof materials, the proposed work will meet standard six. The project meets the applicable secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation. Therefore, the proposed project will not impact the integrity of the Hatton Dairy Barn. That recommends that the Monterey County Historic Resource Review Board adopt a resolution recommending that the chief of planning approve the design approval for the replacement of existing wood shingle roofing material with class a fire resistant fiberglass based shingles on an existing 3,200 square foot dairy barn.

And this concludes staff's presentation.

Thank you. Any questions from staff right now? Is the owner representative here?

Representative. I've got nothing further to say. If staff approves it, we'll we'll adhere to all the conditions.

I have one question. You know, there is a can you my name? Oh, yeah. What is your name,

please? Charles Mandaraga. Okay.

I mean, there is a class A shank shape assembly.

It's it for insurance purposes, the insurance won't cover the roof, and it's already leaking after eight years. Okay. So it has to be replaced so we could replace it with something a little little more sturdier.

Okay. But, I mean, it sounds like your assembly was pretty much the same except you could use, like, a class b shake on top of that assembly, but you're choosing to go with the. Okay. Any questions on the outfit?

Do you have pictures of these, class A fire resistant fire fire glass based shingles?

Yeah. I I have a brochure.

And it it was listed on the the site plan that was showing up.

Oh, that's a lot. Yeah.

I still wanna see that site burn. Yeah. I can't see that.

There's a shingles.

Yeah. They're, like, sure. Asphalt shingles is what they look for.

Mhmm. So sweet. With a with a little bit on asphalt. Right?

They're calling them fiberglass based shingles, but they look

It's a from what I understand, it's like a mixture of slate and fiberglass.

They don't look like the word shapes that were are there. That's all.

I have a question. I think maybe on that one, have you looked at and discounted any other kinds of, wire fireproof, roof coverings that reflect more look more like wood? That's number one. And then opposed to that, is there any calculations? I know that it says as far as the appearance goes, it meets the criteria. But is there any concern about is there added weight with this different kind of roof shingle? Is it gonna be

No. It's it's simulated, so it it's a lot lighter than actual

material of that nature.

Okay. And it would how about opposed to the exact existing shingles that are there now? I mean, do you have any idea whether or it's gonna be heavier? Is there gonna be more of a load on the roof with these shingles as opposed to what's on there now? Did you have to worry about?

I would assume there is a little little more of a load, but, it's it's well within what's what's constructed underneath.

Okay. So it's negligible. It's not gonna be you have to you're not gonna have to shore up anything on the on

the bottom, like a posted meeting. So is there a plywood on there now? Yes. K.

There was a new truss, new set, truss structure and plywood put up,

eight years ago, think. K. But, yeah, the shingles don't represent

In 2011?

They did 2011, I think. Yes.

Yeah. They just replaced the roof.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It it didn't last very long.

Yeah. But they didn't build up a truss structure under that thing.

Yes. They did.

Oh, and they did that without a permit. But

It was, the county has record of it.

Yeah. Okay. I'll let that one go. But Mhmm.

There's there's patrol. There, I I did a public records request.

Yeah. That's how they got There

are structural plans showing with with county stamp on it, so I

don't

Yeah. That that's how they got back. They kept coming back saying they had to do a code resist a code certain kind of roof on it, and the fire marshal he used the state fire marshal to step in and say, these are historic snow. You can go ahead and put the shingle back. That's how they got the shingle on there, but the shingles had to be created because they didn't have shingles long enough to match the existing. So they custom made those shingles to go up in 2031, 10/11, something like that. So, yeah, I don't there's a

lot the weather face weather face, what do call that, is longer or something?

When you drive down? Yeah. I believe so. That's why they're the the longer ones, and they didn't necessarily make those standardly out of a Yeah. So they ordered they had them shipped out, think, Oregon or something to make them long enough to to set. But, yeah, they put it on. It looked wonderful. I mean, it carries the character of what was there at the time.

Yep. Because it's a yeah. It's the longer profile shake or shingle. Mhmm. Yep. So it has a

a different look to it. It does. Yeah.

I mean, because that totally changes the look. I mean, it makes sense as consistent, but it totally changes the look of the barn.

Yeah. And the barn is pretty visible to Kelp Carmel Valley Road. Some of them you never see. This one is one you see.

No. I've seen that, and I know it's a nice look because of those Yeah. The shingles that are on right now. So then So then yeah.

Looks really That's so the question we had I I think it's replacing it makes sense that you need to do that. But there are other kinds of replacement roof tiles that look that reflect more of a wood Wood. Wood view. And if anybody who stops and really looks, you're gonna know it's not the original roof. But there are some that if you're just doing a drive by, it's gonna create a better impression of looking like wood than what's proposed now. Have you looked at those? Because we've got I looked at those before, there's, like, synthetic cedar, shake tiles.

There's Since those they're they're more they're mostly cement in nature. Mhmm. That would be a lot heavier

Mhmm.

On the structure. If you want us to look into something like that.

I think we're just looking at what looks you know, the keeping as close as possible to

This seemed to mimic some kind of wood shake. When you look at the picture, it does kinda have the wood shake appearance.

Do you have the picture of the barn, I mean? Because the the

It's just, we picked that because it's a little lighter in nature. It's not all cement.

But the the scale. I mean, if you could see the bottom picture, the the scale of what's under there is it it's unusual because it's it's different than a standard shingle.

It's it's a lot thinner shingle.

And it's larger than It's larger. Yeah. It's larger than even the standard Shaker if we need a lot. Even wider? Wider? Yes. And then more exposure on it. And that's what's kind of attractive about that feature. You know, this is totally inconsistent.

It's to to find something like that would probably have to be custom It's like you said, it's it's not a it's not a standard shingle shape or size.

And the fire marshal approved I remember hearing a story about that.

Yeah. It's I

remember approving that.

Yep.

He didn't have a choice. The fire state, My fire marshal told him, back off. It's historic. Wait a little long. It's been there a hundred years.

It hasn't burned down.

What's your problem? Basically was the response. But that's on the state historic resource board, state historic building safety board. The fire marshal sits you know, one of the fire marshals, not the you know, there's not one. There's, what, 11 of them. They sit on that board, and they said, no. It's a historic. That's the intent of the historic code is to allow them to continue and maintain in place. And there's no doesn't create an imminent threat. Therefore, it can be

Yeah. Then then it was it was just the fire hazard, but now it's fire and insurance won't cover it.

Yeah. Fire insurance won't cover her house, my house, or his house. That's welcome to California, but that's that's yeah. I hate to say it. Everybody's getting we're canceling if you live in what they consider a rural area. Everything's rural in Monterey County except for, like, in the perimeter of Salinas. But

Well, they said they just

did a class a. I understand. I get that. And even with the class a, I'm not you know, got a tree next to it. It's probably gonna turn you down for that too. So, I mean, the fire, that's a whole different item, but I understand that. So

I mean, because we did a class a shake roof in Monterey. Yep. There's a buildup for it, definitely.

I mean, we can do a simulated cement shake, but it won't look like that. It's like you said, that's pretty pretty unique shingle.

Thing that's unique is just the way that looks. Right? Because that's not a standard shape. And, mean, the scale between that and that is completely different.

Right. And there isn't any more hat and blondes sitting out at the public view like this one. I mean, this is really sometimes you get some. But

Yeah. At this point, let me open, this up to public comment if anybody would like to speak on this project.

I do not see any Okay. Seeing no public, we'll close the board bring it back to the board.

On this one, I'd I'd probably prefer to see a different scale rather than the standard shingle Because I think this point's really unique versus others. So if there's another option.

I would just I would just say as far as I remember, I'm just looking at the brochure you have. I don't I I believe that there are other synthetic, especially cedar, and just cedar because it looks like cedar. Right? I believe that there are other synthetic tiles that are lighter than the ones that you proposed. You said they're heavier and not always concrete.

So there are some new if you haven't looked for a while, there are some new models or types that are as light as fiberglass, which is, I think, what most of these are, and maybe even a little lighter. And so I think that's what I would say. I would want to recommend that that we ask that you do some research on specifically synthetic cedar shingles or others that more closely reflect the existing roof design. I think you may and hopefully, you'll be surprised. I'm not sure they're gonna be that much more expensive. But that's what I would that's what I would recommend.

That one.

You said when you drive by, you definitely notice the roof.

You even know what the

standards it talks about. It wasn't a big issue for it. But when you drive by, you certainly see it.

And you notice a difference too. I mean, when I drive by, you notice the the cleanness of the roof versus just a standard shaped roof. Would be nice to see something more that replicates that.

You're lucky you have a really nice place, and we just wanna make sure that

Oh, it's not my place. But yeah.

It's Well, in three you get to work on it, though.

You know? Because when you drive by residential neighborhoods, you see the scale of those composition shingle roofs, you know, with fiberglass. And the scale is really small. You know? It's, like, just tiny little, you know, pieces, and it it just becomes a residential look. I I think this requires to be

different. Aren't they called, like, long there's a word for it. What's the there's a word for the longer it's like long aspect or there's some word for it for those longer, older shingles that Yeah. It's

you know, what Remember when it's Yeah. They call it his exposure on how much Yeah. Is exposed. You know? Yeah. And then this is actually more exposure between the the rows, and that's actually what's more attractive of that one as well. You know? It keeps it that really clean, low profile look. And I think I think it's important to keep that on this one.

You're saying something, and they're saying something different. You want the the look to be like that, but they want a more simulated wood shingle.

I think we're saying the same thing. We're just talking about different pieces of the of the same thing.

No. What you're asking me to find a manufacturer who makes that special kind of span?

Well, we're we're looking for something similar to that, at least.

And if I can't find that kind of span, but I find a wood shingle simulated.

That's closer. Yeah. That's just we're just we're giving you ideas. We can't tell you what absolutely, but we just

So if we we find something, it has to come back here to talk to you guys.

Oh, wait. What if we give it to you? Just continue this hearing. It has to be continued. Yeah. Then

What damage is created by that? Those existing shingles are too thin

I see. I don't know what how the damage is being caused, but it's it's it's drip. Drips are coming in.

Right. And that's with plywood on the roof.

That's probably due to the the span.

Well, it means you don't have your underlayment in because that's just that just protects your under

seven. 2,011. So you get required the

The paper under.

15 pound. Yeah.

Yeah. And so

And it's not four and twelve, so it's it's only one layer required.

Okay. So what keeps the water out on any

roof? The

the felt paper. Right.

Not those shingles. Those shingles protect the

felt paper. The shingles have to be a certain distance past each shingle to so the water doesn't come back in. And and probably with something

That's I'm just getting to that point because

It's like I said or there.

But the technical thing, it's it's probably you know you know, Monterey County has wind that goes all the different directions. And lately, the wind has been blowing the rain all which way, so it's probably blowing up the shingle and coming back down through the paper.

So you were talking about putting an extra layer or something beneath it for fireproof?

Well, what they'll probably do is they'll probably put two layers of of built paper now instead of one.

Double up on it and then

Sure. Just wanna mention that Dylan does have his hand up. I'm not sure if it's out of order, but just wanted to let you know. And Dylan

has He's the contractor.

Okay. Well, let's hear Dylan. Dylan, would you like to speak now? I'll open the floor.

Can you hear me? Hello?

Yes. Yes.

Yes. I'm the general contractor. I do a lot of work for the Lavettes and in researching the the barn the Hatton Barn shingle, they're they do make other synthetic shingles that represent wood. The the color variation which some of these companies provide are possibly less attractive and would like and the presented shingle that we presented. The other the other issue is what you guys were referring to was the the width and the length of the the shingle.

On the existing barn, those are actually barn siding shingles, which they use typically on the side of

a

barn. And for this, they use it on the roof. And we cannot it's called exposure, the the the shingle exposure. And the synthetic shingles, we cannot get them in a, I think it's, I believe, more than a nine inch, exposure. That's about the maximum that any any company will make.

They do make barn siding, which represents the, what you would typically put on on a wall. But if you were to use that on a roof, these companies do not they will not warranty the roof if it they are used on the the roof. So that is why we have to follow their their manufacturer specs and and kind of go with a they offer, which is a, just kind of a standard, exposed shingle. We we did research some of them, and and the best color that we came up with was the the the composition weathered wood. So I I just wanted to, make that point that, they're the color is somewhat of an issue and also the exposure of the shingle is an issue.

May I ask what the existing roof currently exposure length is on it?

It it's it's it's quite large. They're, typically, believe they're around 16 inches more or less, somewhere around there, 14 to 16 inches. And they are I mean, they they they look good, but it they do. I think that is why the the roof is failing, because of the large exposure. It doesn't, even with the underlayment, the wind the wind will push water up. You know, it can push water up two to two, three feet, even up to five feet in a heavy in a heavy wind driven rain.

Thank you.

Yes. Sure.

And we guess you could use other things than paper. Right? You know, they have left. Yeah. Peel and stick membranes and stuff better.

I know when they can't get the roost done by winter, they always they, well, I don't know what the heck they use, but they glue it down. Have you ever been sure of the name?

It's some kind of thing. Yeah. Fire fire torched it. Yeah. There there are other methods of LARP.

But, you know, if you put a roof on it every ten years, those things curl and give you a grief, then, you know, the original roof lasted how long?

Well, the original roof was under a yeah. There's nothing underneath it. It was actual barn at that time.

Yeah. I would just like to see something more more in scale, I guess, even if it's I mean, to me, this just does not reflect the scale that should be used on that barn.

What I understand from what, Mr. Tesher said is that the roof that's on there now isn't really aren't really roof tiles. They were they were barn siding that they used instead, that it would have been siding shingles. And that's why the

The scale is yeah. The exposure is more.

But even I guess even with that, even if they're if we can't get the same exposure, and that's I guess, I was looking for a more fancy word, but that's just exposure. If we can't get that length in exposure, which is they're saying is more like 16 inches, not just nine, do we then still want to look for the appearance of a shingle that's more like that? Better than that.

Yeah. Yeah. Because this is definitely, like, a little the dimensional. Yeah. Residential look more than a barn look. So if we can't get the

as long of a shingle as we want, can we at least get the appearance of wood? Because we're gonna give up one element,

so we don't have

to give them all up. And I I understand that you guys have looked at everything you should. It's just you see one more step, especially if it's not gonna create, an an issue about being too heavy. If you're gonna put whole concrete, you know, deciding you're gonna put or something on the top,

the whole barn's gonna fall over.

But if it's the same

I I I don't I I what's underneath there is pretty good.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's why I think the cedar and, again, we don't know the cost. It's not part of what we're supposed to tell you is how much it costs or how less it costs. But just what a better view is. If you can't get the how long they are, we can at least I would like to recommend that we at least get more of the view or the vision of it being wood.

Because if you can get a nice shingle, you know, lay flatter than shakes. And if you can do that, I mean because that's part of that appearance when you drop by. This is just a really flat, clean surface, you know, and the scale. So I think I I asked to see if we can get something closer. What do you think?

So maybe we ask well, you talk because you're talking also it's this is already September. Rainy season starts October. We still got some time to take

a look before we have to

worry about it starting to leak again. Right? Or just so we could

Oh, this

Ask for some review. Is it worth it to see if the design I mean, the the subcommittee could take a look at whatever new proposals there can be between now and the next meeting? Do we wanna do that or just have it come to or just recommend it come back?

October 2 is the next meeting.

Yeah. Okay. Mhmm. Thirteen days before. No.

Mean, subcommittee would certainly be able to respond. He's closing. So, yeah, I

Would that be in Belivett coming back here?

Yeah. I don't I think because it's so visible, I think it should come back to us. It should come come back to us, but I hate just saying, here, go back and come back in a month, and then we say, no. We still don't really like it. Yeah. That's horrible. So if we can get it to where you can get, like, a a good idea before that time, I think that would be useful and just keep stringing everybody out. Yeah. Because we don't wanna do that either.

Yeah. No. We can certainly work with best options. Okay.

Could I would like to recommend then that we continue this to the October 2 meeting with the direction to Mr. Tesher and also I'm sorry. Your last name?

Mandarol.

Mandarol. Miss Mandarol to work on reviewing generally synthetic wood options for the roof as synthetic cedar or something else and then to request that staff be able to connect with the subcommittee, the the design subcommittee when those alternatives are developed so that the subcommittee can discuss with the applicant what's going to be, closer to what we're talking about today Contractors

and is a simulated shingle.

To be able to consider for our next meeting on the March 2.

Makes it. It doesn't have the same spread, like, exposure, but it looks more like wood.

I'm saying that those

Did that material give you the class A that you need for insurance purposes?

If it's not wood, then yes. Da Vinci is a simulator shingle.

Mhmm. Better. Right. So already get that word. Yeah.

He's like, don't pass your phone around.

Okay. I I still say we can continue it until you find the material and see what that looks like and, you know, maybe options. Was that that's

a motion, I think. I before we got we got Derailed. Derailed with the the phone call. Yes. But that's good. But, I mean, that's that's a good step because if that's something that you can consider because we just need to have this part of the record too. So if you're gonna say, that's the shingle wherever it is. Those are the shingles we're looking at now. If we wanna replace it with the da Vinci shingles, just gonna need to get that to the staff, and that's part of the application, and we'll be good. So it's hopefully a quicker answer than than than we even anticipate. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I ourselves probably done the same thing where, you

know, we spent hours looking at materials to see the cell. Okay.

There's da Vinci. There's Braava. There's a bunch of different guys. Maybe even the same company you're looking at now.

Okay. Do I make a motion for a second?

I'll second that.

K. Any discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

Aye. K.

So I'll send this new material over to the planners. They'll it'll be back on to the October?

When we receive them, we will send them to the subcommittee. There's there's a couple of things. So, Sal and and John, what they do is we have situations like this where we don't wanna have to wait or you wanna do some application, and we don't want you to come to a sale. Hell no. So you're gonna meet with them. They're the subcommittee, and they're both architects. And so they'll take a look and see, and just to, you know, see how closely what you've just given us is to what the discussion was today and then then be able to set it on the next So we wanna be so it gives you a good check-in as to what we're talking about if it's close to what we want rather than saying, no. You really need to go someplace else. You know, we don't we don't want you to keep going back and forth and back and forth. So the sub the you're gonna need the staff.

Gonna get all the subcommittee, and subcommittee's gonna do their magic and talk with you or at least just look at the plans and let you know and Mr. Tescheno, close or not close.

Is it at all possible that the board relinquished that decision to the subcommittee? So when they make that decision, they can go straight back to the planning and building department for a permit, or is that something that is not acceptable? It has to be moved by the entire board to for the selection. I mean, you're saving you're talking a couple weeks difference probably. I'm probably looking at a month different because I have a feeling he's gonna be down there tomorrow, and she's gonna be seeing him tomorrow.

Gonna be down there tomorrow.

Doesn't mean that that's gonna be the one. I'm

gonna have it. Yeah. I know. But I'm I'm but I can understand there's It'll be down there tomorrow. To the subcommittee. Then, of course, the subcommittee has to meet and look at it. So I'm just

I know.

It seems like, why kill a whole month just to have that decision and, you know, be made that decision in a in a week and still having to wait three weeks to get it back on the board. Mhmm. As an option, I don't know if that's even acceptable. Can we Right.

I mean, I think it is. We just there's been a a ability for staff to approve reroofs when it's in kind, typically. We don't even come to this committee. This is a different situation. So it comes to the committee.

Really, you know, if you wanna give the power to the subcommittee to tell staff that we have the authority to approve a certain sign, I think that would probably be okay. We could report back could talk to Phil and report back on what was done by the subcommittee. The whole board wants to know. But at the time it is approved, if that's not the thing the whole the whole board wanted, it's kinda too late.

I understand.

So what happens what happens if the subcommittee says we like this material or something? Yeah. And then it just be sent to the board emailed to the board or something and says, is there any opposition or something?

And then probably I think it's gonna drop off.

You could do a special meeting.

I no. I'm just meeting. Right. What I'm saying is I have faith in these two gentlemen to make the appropriate decision because I when I came in and he said exactly what is in my head, she's saying exactly what's in my head. So I have full belief and trust that they'll make that proper decision. I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I'm saying that would be acceptable to me to let them make that decision on the material to let it move more quickly through the process. K.

Could we make this is there a way we could we could morph this, what we're saying them to, of finding or

you know?

Because we have conditions of approval. Right? Correct. Resolution. But, because I also see how this is a significant we've just said the whole reason we even care is this is a really significant Gotcha. That we see, and it's gone through the phase one and the phase two and all of those things. Can we make this a condition of approval to say if you know, as long as the the shingles that are you know, the replacement shingles are within the same you know, after review by the subcommittee and they are in line with the discussion we had today that you can go ahead and and have the staff approve it. I don't I'm looking at how you can

Yeah.

Let's just see if

that works out how you where you'd where you'd shove that in.

Yes. So I think it'd be I think it is a good idea to put it in the resolution.

Put in the resolution. Okay.

Act on that, subject to approval by the subcommittee option single options that look more like shake.

Yeah.

It would

just be subject to the approval by the subcommittee.

Yeah. Because that because this is big enough. This is a we want all to be liable for it. Mm-mm. Okay. What so what Mr. Spencer just said.

Does that seem reasonable, Mike?

Yeah. I'm

okay. I I just wasn't sure if everybody else kind of thought that same way or if it's just me. Yes.

Like, no. Let someone else do it.

You know, it also saves time for rainy season and everything. Yeah.

It saves them time. No.

We would love for you to have a problem with rainy season. Yeah. It's because it's raining. Okay. So I would move to to Revise the original Mhmm. Resolution. Resolution.

Five.

Mhmm. I'll take it. Yeah. Mhmm.

Okay.

So did something just change? Yes.

Yes. Okay. We're trying

to But

it takes good. We're trying to speed you up a little It's better, good, Charles. Anyway, it's something like this.

It's a good thing for you.

Yeah. And we made ourselves all responsible so it's not just the subcommittee who says yes or no because it's a significant enough structure that we and there's a lot of work that went into this and what you guys have done that we wanted to make sure that essentially, that we are all in all online and all of the offers a whole committee responsible for saying, yes. This looks good.

Well, thank you. Yeah.

So if the subcommittee makes a decision the board doesn't like, we'll hear about that.

Yeah. Yeah. So it is Gotcha. If they don't,

it's still our fault, Yep.

So we'll keep

We're blocking it.

Approval of the reroof subject to alternative roofing material that looks more like shake and subject to approval by the subcommittee.

Correct. There

you go. Or would it yeah.

What's an existing issue? Material or whatever. Yeah. Mhmm.

So move from continuing to approve? Yeah. Subject to. Subject to the condition. So therefore.

And we seconded it already. I think Sal did.

Thank you.

Yes. So we vote on that?

Yeah. I just have one comment. Instead of just saying shake, I would probably say, you know, shake that looks more like what is there now. You know? Because the whole idea is that that's the profile. And I know it's not gonna be exactly that, but we just want it to be not just that, but something that will replicate like

cedar or some material that representative would

More material. Existing. Yeah. Synthetic wood material. Okay. Given that extra note. Yeah. Any other discussion? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, basically, it's truth with condition.

With condition.

And so you give them that

So I'll submit the new shingle, and they'll submit it to the subcommittee?

Yes. Okay. Thank you. Or if there's another alternate too. I may take a look for it. Yeah. But

You mean an option a or b?

Sure. Yeah.

Whatever looks like more similar, be it cedar, be it whatever. If it's more similar looking Play your best card. Yep. Yep.

Okay.

Mhmm. Okay. I'll send you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

So Sorry for that hassle. The hassle there. I just know how it is. You're just sitting there waiting for a one condition to get approved. You're like, please. Yeah. And so you turn your hands turn white from holding so long, and it then it's like, oh, it's done. You're like, Yeah. Okay. Melinda, thank you for expediting that. That makes it.

I feel

so bad on the other side

of the counter now. Well, that's We'll bring our experience to bear. Because even though it was you can do a class A shingle, they didn't wanna do that.

Didn't sound like it. Okay. So

So we just did that. Okay.

Other matters? I'm just bringing up, you know, this, again, I guess, just a point of of aggravation. Bixby Bridge, Garipata Bridge,

the

the repairs and all those kinds of things. Just this last week, the Monterey County weekly, their front page, if you saw, says here's the iconic view of Big Sur and how it's been recorded through the ages by artists around here. And the the first, front page was a picture of Bixby Bridge, a painting. So just just like, just another just you know, we still are I'm happy that we are firm and and not backing down at least in our opinion of what we think, versus what has to happen mechanically and and for transportation ones.

So is there an update on where that is?

HealthTrans is putting in temporary traffic control measures and the internal do

call it? Guardrail. Bridges is basically the way I look at it.

Yeah. They're saying essentially that, you know, under safety and emergency conditions, they're going to be doing some things out there because and while they explore some other solution to the permanent replacement

of So they're damaging it more to say that?

So there will be traffic control. There will be some temporary improvements to slow speeds through this because they're they're you they're not asking for permission on that. They're just doing it because they're you know, we didn't approve their guardrail replacement, so they're Yeah. Putting in temporary measures, and who knows how long those temporary measures will be in place.

Is that metal rail and stuff? Is that metal barriers?

The metal rails already inside.

Put the key rail on the inside.

Yep.

Yep. That's what they were doing when they were saying, oh, we gotta go out there and look at it. Yeah. Crew walking around, and I'm like

Make it look worse. Yeah.

They're gonna make it look worse so that it'll look yeah. They're gonna use that as their new standard.

I probably probably compromised by what they're doing. Right? Yeah. Sorry.

We're on that. Well, definite if they bolt it to it, yeah, unless they wrap them and just suck it up against those existing. But I'm not sure what they're planning on.

And they

did This is from Sal, the that poster. And they did

You mean the rancher days?

Yeah. There is an event on the September 27 at the Baronda Adobe and a special historical event.

Correct.

Invited. Everybody's invited.

But then they go with the speed. Come back to me. They're they're over the speed. Right?

Remember we begged them, and they said, no. No. We can't. We can't. We can't. And now we're like, we're we'll lower the speed. I'm like, well

Well, they're putting in one way traffic control, which that artificially lowers the speed, but that would change the speed limit.

I think in one of their articles, they said that they will lower it, and I'm like Lower it. Go ahead. Lower it. And then everybody's upset that they're putting up road signs that say lower. And I'm like, the cars physically can't drive it without off. You can't make the maneuver. It can't argue with El Transo.

You're like, okay. Said they can do it, and then it was an article. Right? They did.

The beauty is you just go out there and right past the bridge, right past the Garipati, you go up in that curve. Look at the curve. Now that curve doesn't have that kick in rail that they require on the bridge, and that's a curve, but they don't have the kick in rail. And all it is is these big metal things coming up with the two two metal rails. How can they do that there and they can't fix the bridges? But but the bridges have to have I call it the kick in at the bottom. They widen that the bottom curb, and the curb is slanted. So if the car heads out in that direction, the tires hit it and maneuver it back onto the traffic. So that kick in curb, they had to have on their design. They don't even have on their own guardrail.

So I'm like, what the heck? So the two standards to me, they keep saying, oh, these are the standards. These are standards. They're not really standards. It doesn't say you have to have this, this, this component. It just has to be tested to move the car back into the lane so they don't go over the edge.

Mhmm.

I don't think they wanna do those tests. They don't wanna build it, set it up, and then ride a car into it. They would rather just use one out of Texas or New Hampshire and say that's what we want.

But if you look at

the cost of that bridge, come on, engineers. You can do it. That's what engineers are doing. They like to think up stuff. Right? Architects and engineers. Let's try it. Mhmm. Why not?

Well, Caltrans has, like, one one thing. Right?

They like that. They like that.

They have one one design and

That's what they want. Yep.

Because it'll when you go from here to Monterey, you know, when they did that bridge, right, it's got that rail design on the side that that they look

and think. Yep. It's gonna happen with some of the other bridges.

Yep. And and the sad part is those bridges, they so need help. I mean, if you slow down and you walk on it, you'd be you'd go, what? I mean, the rebar is exposed for most of the pilaster. And I'm like, okay. Come on. Get somebody foxy or something out here and I know. Keep it from corroding. And but if it was your backyard, you'd get a notice from this county saying, clean it up. So I understand the pressure they're under. I'm a little disappointed that they don't think outside the box a little further and get more creative on those bridges because it's not just one. There's multitudes of them. So

And, like I said, I mean, Big Street Bridge, I mean, you see that in all

I know. Everywhere. Right? Pictures, talking Everywhere. You can visit Europe and you go, hey. That's our backyard. Yep. It's just weird.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's so iconic. It's ridiculous. Yeah.

So where's the approval process?

There isn't anything right now. Because I don't think there's So

it just stalled out? Why don't they go through Coastal or something?

No. They can't go through Coastal. Coastal wouldn't take it. They Coastal Commission doesn't take denials at the local level. So if if we deny it, Coastal Commission says we're not taking it.

They only take things that are approved. For more scrutiny. Consider, yeah, changing our approvals.

Well, that's it kinda feels nice because that means they have firm belief that your denials are there for fund fundamental reasons.

Yeah. So

then Caltrans is just gonna do what they want?

They are doing what they want for under

safety. Yeah.

Safety improvements at the moment.

Yep.

That doesn't mean they can replace the guardrail.

They're just gonna do what they have to do to maintain safety for the public.

Which can be k rails, guard rails, one way traffic controls, other other traffic controls that they believe are needed to make it safe to cross the bridge.

So the next picture of the, Lamborghini or something across the bridge, I'll just be in between the guardrails. A bunch

of yellow cones, orange cones. Yeah.

Oh

my goodness. Yeah.

I'm so glad

you brought it up. I'm sorry. Didn't talk to them. No. No. But it's ongoing.

Yeah. No.

And there's a couple of CEQA. Is it no. It's not CEQA, but some rehab workshops that you sent around to some of us from CF from California Preservation Foundation Mhmm. Next week or something. Yeah. There's treatment.

Design standards. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, most of it's pretty good. I mean, you know, most of it's relevant. You know, there's so much that isn't. But, you know, we've gone to some conferences that we should be teaching because, you know It's because we have all the exceptions here. Right? I mean, some of

the my point. That was my next question. Actually, I was gonna ask two things. First, CLG, is there anything that we need to do for our certified local government? And we have a couple of different upcoming and I think that we still have time for this deadline, but there are association you know, American Planning Association, APA, and there's something called AEP, which is the association for environmental professionals.

In this coming year, the AEP conference is gonna be here in Monterey. And so they're always asking for stuff. You know, Jamie's really involved with that. And so I was gonna say we should be as as HRB, it would be really good for us to present a panel and exactly what you were just saying. So, yeah, so if we if that's okay, I we can work together maybe and and put through a proposal to talk about whatever we think we wanna talk about because we are exceptional. Even though we fail sometimes with this stuff, I really think it'd be good for other people to hear about.

I think because most of the conferences we've gone to are seminars, and a lot of them are so general. You know? It's like, it's it's not relevant because all our stuff is, you know, so much beyond that.

This this next CPF thing is on design standards, but the one after that is about substitute materials, and that's the one that I'm really interested in. Because I did have one like the But isn't the one for CPF design standards and context statements? It's really not design standards. Design standards in historic buildings. Oh, it is? Okay. I must have looked at the wrong one. Yeah. Okay. But I think the materials thing could Would be good. Yeah.

Because we have one, and that's basically, they've they've kinda loosened up their standards to accommodate, you know, more more materials based on today's methods and requirements and stuff. So but it's it's interesting, though, because that's the one we're managing with the Otavaleo mansion when they're trying to Yeah. Replace the siding and and how much they're gonna replace and what is gonna be replaced with. And that's always nice to know those, you know, limits and what's required, I guess. Same as the board.

Any other discussions, updates? No? One department update. Yes. Mhmm.

What what would you like to know?

I thought Metaphor. Didn't I go in front of somebody?

You got denied again. No. So It got in front of

somebody again. How's that for a lack

of knowledge? I mean, the dollhouse is gone. Yeah. Medaphor came forward with a new home design that was denied, or there was a motion of intent to deny. She revised her plans, reduced the size, new homes in the footprint, still two stories within the footprint. So larger overall than what the Cuttle House was floor area wise, but in the footprint. And the board approved that revised design last month, August 26. Okay. So that will be a final local action notice. We'll be going out with coastal commission.

We can take that one up if they want. And that would be hopefully end to a saga there.

No. For us. That would

be nice.

Because I know I there's an issue with that too, but I guess everything complies now.

Yeah.

He's like, thank god.

There

That's been a long time.

Yes.

I thought it was interesting that Tony Lombardo made the point that this revised plan, nobody had had a chance to review it or comment on it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It was submitted between the motion of intent to deny in July and the board hearing in August, and it was submitted, like, a week before. So we were scrambling to figure out what to do with it.

That's hard.

Yeah.

Did they ever approve the ADU ordinance for our county coastal?

It is scheduled to go

Thought I heard this.

It's January. Postal Commission for certification for the end of the year,

I think. Oh, okay.

I don't know. I don't have an exact date. They asked us for some more information. We provided it to them. They just need a date. Might be October. I wanna say it's somewhere.

Is there a California. They met in January. It's approved.

I'm like, it's not approved. Look. It's right there on the it doesn't say it's approved yet, but that's why I'm keep

Vacation rental ordinance is approved.

Oh. Certified.

I think sometimes people get vacation rentals make and the public gets vacation and ADUs and accepts some clients.

Got a couple of things pending. It goes to commission. Yikes. But they did approve after five and a half hours

Oh my god.

Our vacation rental ordinance.

That's

Just for a one item, and they have three days and multiple items in every day.

How late? When did your item finally end?

07:30 something. Almost 8PM.

That's crazy.

And I had only planned to be there for the day and drive back, so I got home at, like, 2AM.

Oh my god.

It was that was a long day.

So what's the ordinance on the vacation homes?

It is the same as the one inland that's in place now.

It's Good.

It sets three different types. Mhmm. Limited, homestay. So limited is you can rent your home unhosted three times a year. That's if you go on vacation or if you're out of town for an event, can do it up to three times a year. Hosted is or homestay is hosted. You live in the house. You rent out rooms within your house. And then there's commercial vacation rentals. Commercial, you don't need to have it hosted and it's unlimited number of rentals per year, but you need a use permit or coastal development permit.

And and the other ones, you don't. You just need a license and pay your DOT. The licenses still have some criteria attached to it, but it's not a discretionary permit. That takes takes a lot of time to get approved. Yeah.

Is there a also, is there a limit to the commercial permits you can get?

Yes. So it was 4% of the total number of housing units in each area. So, and there's a couple of exceptions. So zero are allowed in Big Sur, zero are allowed in Carmel Valley, zero in low density residential neighborhood of Carmel Highlands, which is

Yeah.

It is The Highlands. Low density residential in Carmel is The Highlands, and, zero in Moss Landing. Except there's a unique situation in Moss Landing with a timeshare thing that is an exception to all of it. Yeah.

Well, Carmel Valley's gonna get a little pissy, aren't they? Because you

No. We have a lawsuit. It'll be amended now that the Coastal Commission's acted. So Mhmm. Yeah. We'll see where that goes.

So many over there.

Yeah.

So many. And that's why I'm like, what? But I get it. If you're if you bought the property sitting right next to it, do you wanna have a party house next door? And that's what they become. The traffic, everything is just it's pretty immense. So

I get it. What's the situation in Pebble Beach? You know, when they have all the car shows and they have all the events at, you know, private homes. Or

Well, that's next on our list is to deal with events. But you if you were renting short term to for an event or for any other purpose, you need the permit and license starting depending on what part of Pebble Beach you're in because there's inland and coastal Yeah. Yeah. Sections of Pebble Beach. But in the coastal starting in a couple months, you'll need the the permits Perfect. Licenses to do that. And Pebble Beach company is has a standard objection as their HOA

Mhmm.

The short term rentals in that area. So we're telling people about that Mhmm. When they come to apply.

Mhmm. K. Anything else? Thank you.

I'm glad Phil got on vacation, and we kind of got you as a captive audience for, yeah, for a bit. Thank you.

Seems like there's plenty of other things I could update.

So much going on.

They're not coming to you right now. I get it. I understand.

I still don't know what's happening with Pryso. Nothing's ever moved forward.

Didn't they sell didn't they guys sell to somebody else who was attempting to sell to someone?

No. I mean, I think he's been trying to find someone who would be willing to develop it. Yeah. I don't think he has.

Yeah. The meantime, the House Springs hasn't been there. Right? Okay. You know?

Forget the CLG, the the our certified local government stuff. Right? Is that something that filled us? Is there any reports that we you may not know, but that we can help with preparing or whatnot because we have to do that every couple of years? Do you know Yeah. The statuses of that?

I don't. I know that there is an annual report that's needed.

Yeah.

And you all have to provide your training.

And Mhmm.

I don't think it's that cold. And

then, you know, what has been accomplished, what you plan to accomplish? So I guess

the other question while Craig is here is, you know, the the grant thing. You know, if we wanna do Mhmm. Some of the the grants that, you know, Greg used to always write up and and Parks used to put in that, you know, have to do the matching fund thing. Yeah. And and we have the issue. We don't have matching funds. Right? Mhmm. We we don't have matching funds. So is there any way to

But to there are CLG grants. I know Meg used to get for contact statements and things like that.

Parks used to provide the matching funds for that. But Did they?

Yeah. But you need to have I think our problem is we need to have staff who could do that.

Yeah.

Right. But we can't do it once we have matching cons either. That's the issue. Right? That's why.

So is the matching, can it be in kind with labor, with staff, or does it have to be actually dollars?

Depends on the grant. Sometimes it can be Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes.

Because that that's I mean, we've been since May has been on, we haven't had one situation that we could do because of the matching parts.

That reminds me of a story I was talking about this morning. I have an uncle who's he just he reads a lot, and he read something about old grizzly bear traps in Monterey County. And this was years ago, and I got him in touch with Tim Jensen at Parks District. And they actually found an old grizzly bear trap from when they used to trap grizzly bears and golden bear fights and all of that. Yeah.

And it was it was, you know, still intact. But and so this was years ago. I didn't know what the result of all of it was, but then I think it was Sobranes fire happened, and Cal Fire just didn't know what just bulldozed the thing. So it's gone. But it was out there somewhere that would have been something worth worth looking into preserving, and there were some people who were were wanting to do that before got destroyed in Hellfire.

Oh, China. Yeah. I mean, I feel bad. China can't burn down.

Yeah. Mhmm. Stays.

And the sad part is you look at the fire. It's, like, right in the middle of development, and this part's just

Yeah.

Yeah. Indiscriminate. Kinda like the barn. I'm like, yeah. Okay. I kinda understand why you need some kind of protective roofing. But Mhmm. Yeah.

Well, we do talking about that kind of stuff, though, if it's not gonna be destroyed by fire but people don't know about it Right. There we have our local register when we did talk to the the the counter staff. There's a list of a local register of historic cross of historic resources that when we had a grant through through MEG, we were able to get that list put together. And it's not I mean, it's a list. If it's it's in a document, but it's not on Legistar or anything else, and that's something that I need to talk with Liz about or ask her again.

We should as HRB, because she was going to look into whether or not you could take each of those addresses because most of them have an address and just put a note in the file where the planners are looking at it. Say, this property is on a local historic is is in the local historic register. Because that would help with not, we're not missing some of the structures that because they don't know.

Can you just start with me? No.

Yeah.

Yeah. I I mean,

it should

be in both places.

Yeah. Yeah. There's we're I'll I'll ask Kirk I'll ask Kirk again about it. And then there's something else we're working on solar panels, not to see because you can't you can't not have them, but there are different regulations and, I mean, different areas that have some decent guidance. It be kind of, like, dropping into the this our subcommittee design review. And so Uh-huh.

Looking at

some other stuff. But the local register stuff, I need to I'll ask Liz about, I guess.

Because do we have we don't have power right now over any solar, right, in historic.

No. We haven't. But

You can request the the whole I mean, out of the whole there's memos, all this kind of stuff everywhere. It's sent passing, and whatnot. You can request. You can, like, ask really nice Yeah. To have them be on on the side where they're not visible. And then, also, you can there's one little teeny bit that allows you through the historic register I mean, through the the state that says you can at least ask the homeowner to install the solar panel so that if they're ever removed, that the way that they were installed doesn't damage the roof after they're taken off. That's.

Mhmm. Or we don't have permission to look at anything right now. Right? Even location or And

if we could just get something that says, hey, everybody, make sure if you can, if you're put it on, here is a good place to put it. Here's a good place not to put it. And however you install it, make sure it's something that can be uninstalled and and cause as little damage as possible. That's that's really the extent of anything. Any guideline? Yeah.

I'm sorry?

A mini guideline of some kind.

Yeah. Yeah. That's about it.

Well, I just ignore it. You know? Because the solar guy was like, put him here

Yeah.

For for your maximum.

Well, I see all men wrong all the time. So Yeah. Yeah. They usually have to hire a structural. Say, yeah. You can put them on there. And I'm like, dude, so it's not a little close to the edge. Mhmm. What do you mean? I go, well, the fire department requires three feet, don't they? They're looking at me like I'm crazy. No.

They do.

And my fire marsh comes out. Yeah. No. Mm-mm.

Three feet?

Seriously? I don't know

much, but

I know the firemen still wanna get around that roof. So yeah. Yeah. Regulations. Require rent? Yep. Really? From the

Oh, yeah. So they can get around.

I'll ask about the local register, and I wonder about why.

And we were also discussing ADUs in historic areas. Yeah. And I know that kinda I don't know what happened. ADUs are just I don't know what to say. It's prolific. They're just everywhere. Mhmm. Be that they should be there or not. You don't know how that I It's not bad in the cities. I mean, I don't care.

The cities, you got the sewer, you got everything hooked up, but in the county jurisdictional area where you're on septics and the there's so many regulations that, they all come in. You guys aren't slowing them down through the Planning Building because you can't. And then they just get environmental health just sits there and stares. Why did they get this far and not realize? And you go I know you tell them. Check with environmental health. Check. But they don't. They think they can, I might look at my toilet works? I'm good. Mhmm. I'm like, I know. Put four more toilets on it. Not good. So it's I don't know what to say. I mean, my my business is probably 90% of just chasing after the health department going, you can't do that. And everybody blames me, and I'm