Historical Advisory Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay. Yep. And then it turns green. We did.

Yeah. So maybe Mike can sell. Didn't get sell then.

Okay? Maybe

I'll We're ready? Be able to hear John better, Lucy. Yeah. Alright. I'm speaking to the mic. Sheila and I will appreciate. That's what you're saying. So me anyway. So I

do not forget something. So is everybody ready here? Okay. So I'm going to call to order the Tuesday, 04/21/2026 meeting special meeting of the Monterey County Historic Resources Board. Can I have a roll call, please?

John Skorkis? Here.

Kelly Morgantini? Here. Michael Billig?

Present.

Judy McClelland. Present. Belinda Talubin. Present. Salvador Munoz. Present. Sheila Lee Prater. Present.

Okay. Can we have the protocols, please, of the meeting? Only

staff and board members' video should be on. Members of the public should have their video turned off unless they are presenting. This helps with the bandwidth and helps with reducing distractions. Staff will help monitor and turn off videos as needed. We do ask that you keep yourself muted unless you are presenting.

To mute to mute yourself on the Zoom platform, there's a mute button at the bottom of the screen that looks like a microphone. To mute yourself, you just if you've called, press 6. To participate during public on the Zoom platform, you can raise your hand by opening reactions at the bottom of your screen and clicking the raise hand icon. If you've called in, you can raise or lower your hand by pressing 9. Another way you can participate is by sending an email to the hrrbhearingcomments@countyofmonterey.govemail.

This email address can also be found on the agenda for today's meeting. Staff is monitoring that email. So if you have a question, comment, or a document, staff will do our best to respond in real time.

Okay. Thank you. So at this time, I'd like to open the floor to public comment on non agenda items that are under the purview of the HRB, if anybody would like to speak at this time. Okay. Seeing none, we'll close the floor to public comment. Is there any additions? Can okay. Move on to approval of the minutes. I think we could do this all at one time. Didn't we do that before? We didn't have to do them individually.

But We could do them all unless somebody wants

to pull, unless they have a comment.

Okay. Well, we'll start with wait. What's first? We have September 2025. Anybody have any comments on

You don't need You could just ask about that. Need some Scott. Okay.

I have I have one comment.

Okay.

That on page one of three, I'm stated to have been present.

Which which date?

Pardon me? Are we I think that's September.

Particular date are you talking about?

It's September 4 Okay. 2025, and, I'm both stated to have approved the minutes of the previous meeting, but also to be absent. So I should not be in the my name should be removed from the eyes of approval of the minutes.

Good catch. Yeah.

It says it absent below. I'm trying to hear twice.

Okay. So let's go just to comments on any of the agenda amended items from previous meetings. Does anybody have any comments on any other items? With any other agendas?

Are you taking these one by one, or is

it We're just going through them all right now. Anybody has comments on any no other comments. Anybody have comments on any the meeting?

I don't have any.

Okay. So can I have a motion for approval?

So moved. I move that we approve the minutes as listed on the agenda by different dates.

Okay. With the one comment from?

I actually on page one of 12/04/2025, it says there were board recommended changes to the twenty twenty four, twenty five CLG program annual report, but it doesn't say what they were. But I'm gonna just Okay. Let that go.

Mhmm. It's now December.

Yeah. I think the rest

of it can just go. Okay. But, Judy, you had a motion. Right?

Yes.

You have second.

Please. I think you said so. Yes.

Okay. So all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Minutes are approved. Let's move on to schedule matters. So we have the nomination of election of chair and vice chair. Belinda and Sal were the subcommittee for that.

We are we would like to nominate John as chair and Kelly as vice chair and continue as we currently are. Okay.

Yes.

Any other takers? Yeah.

I make a motion to approve the chair and vice chair as mentioned by the committee.

Okay. Is there a second?

I second.

Okay. Any comments on the motion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Congratulations. Yeah. I like you. I have a good Okay. So now we'll move on to our first project here. It's DA260028 Carmel River Inn. It's a public hearing to consider recommending that the chief of planning approve a design approval to allow the remodel and additions to six existing historic cabins located at the historic Carmel River Inn. Colors and materials to match each of the existing structures.

Basewood siding consisting of dark brown, light gray, and light brown, respectively, with different color trims consisting of mint gray or mint green, white, peach, and yellow, respectively. Project is 26600 Oliver Road in Carmel. Can we have a staff report on that, please?

Yes. Good morning. Good morning, historic resources review board. Elizabeth Gonzales, project planner for Carmel Inn Ventures, VA 260028. The, applicants are applying for a design approval to allow the remodel and additions to six existing historic cabins at the historic Carmel River Inn.

The project is located at 26600 Oliver Road, assessor's parcel number 009563005 in the Carmel area land use plan coastal zone. And these are the cabins over here. The original there was an original survey, field survey, of the subject property, was conducted by Kent C. V. In April 2004.

The Carmel River Inn consists of 22 wood frame buildings, formerly sited in a wooden landscape setting immediately adjacent to the Carmel River. The 1934 Carmel River Inn was evaluated for significance based on age historic association and architectural value. It's significant in the area of architecture for its high concentration of little altered nineteen thirties motor court cabins. Of the 22 buildings present, 18 appear to qualify for listing as an historic district in the California Register of Historic Places at the local level of significance. The original field survey stated that any proposed alterations or new additions to the proposed historic district will have to be designed in conformance with the Secretary of Interior Standards for the treatment of historic properties under the treatment for rehabilitation, and that's why we are before you here today.

The majority of the buildings present are small one story framed guest cabins with attached wall cladding for all of the pre 1940 cabins oh, carports. Sorry. The exterior wall cladding for all of the pre 1940 cabins is vertical board and batten. The cabins with few exceptions have low pitch side gabled roofs with open carports attached to one side of the structure. Most of the carports are under extensions of the side gabled roofs.

However, four of the carports are front gabled. Some of the cabins have small overhanging door hoods supported by wood brackets. All current roof covering on the cabins is composition shingle. Only two of the pre 1940 cabins have fireplace chimneys. Decorative treatment throughout the campground consists of fascia boards with sawn trim and a modified bead and reel motif, scalloped vertical trim board on the gable ends of the cabins.

Their carports were present like wood shutters pierced by pine tree motif. The shutters are clipped at their upper corners. Colors and materials are to match each of the existing structures, including reinstalling the structures or the shutters. A focused phase two historic assessment was prepared by Kent Seavey dated 11/10/2025. As proposed, this focused phase two rehabilitation project will be limited to the additions of six of the historic cabins to include new footings if needed, expanded walls, repair and reinstall existing historic windows and reroofing one cabin.

The intent of the current owners is to continue rehabilitation for several of the remaining nineteen thirty four cabins by small additions and repairs if necessary to include reroofing, add new footings, expand some exterior walls provide utility upgrades to current code and minor expansion of interior space. In all, repair and reinstall existing shutters and windows, if needed, matching in kind the historic features. And based on the Phase two historic assessment, the summary of approved cabin rehabilitation and continued focus Phase two rehabilitation of further cabins at the Carmel River Inn is consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for the Rehabilitation of Historic Properties. These are the six building permits that are in process currently. On 03/16/2026, a site visit was conducted with the HRRB subcommittee, the applicants, and staff in order to provide context to the proposed project.

Based on the Phase two historic assessment, the summary of approved cabin rehabilitation and continued focus Phase two rehabilitation of further cabins at the Carmel River Inn is consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for the rehabilitation of historic properties. Therefore, staff recommends that the Monterey County Historic Resources Review Board adopt a resolution recommending that the chief of planning approve the design approval to allow the remodel and additions to six existing historic cabins located at the historic Carmel River Inn. Colors and materials to match each of the existing structures, base wood siding consisting of dark brown, light gray, and light brown, respectively, with different color trends consisting of mint green, white, peach, and yellow, respectively. And this concludes staff's presentation.

Okay. Thank you, Liz. Any questions from the board to planning? Would the applicant like to speak at this time?

Yes, mister chairman. I'm Paul Davis, architect, and Kent Seavey, historian, is is here. The staff report looks complete and describes the project. Both of us have been involved for two decades of that and moving slowly through the process of of adding on as as was described. There are 16 of these of these cottages with carports.

We've already done four. And so what we're continuing on is in the same same process, same protection of the history of the of the of the buildings and making these minor additions. As I mentioned on the field trip, since this was built, cars have gotten bigger, so the so they can't fit into the carports. So the carports are now a nice place for people to sit and and enjoy the the scenery. No longer are people satisfied with a double bed size, so we've we're pushing out slightly.

Also, we we've we've made it possible in each unit to have a separate little sitting area for two people, next to a window so they can read or watch TV without having to do it on their bed. So it's it's these amenities that we're adding to make them more suitable for today's hospitality needs. The kit the bathrooms are very, very small and tight, so we're expanding those a little bit. So they're they're very minor minor additions, but we are, again, following Kent's guidance in terms of the use of materials and preserving the windows where we can and following through with the detail, shutters and so forth. I might I might clarify that of the six, five are the the the little cottages with the carports.

The sixth one is a newer building upfront that was a restaurant at one time and now it's two units and also head of the laundry behind. And since we are doing this project, there's been a lot of upgrading in utilities and and we've had to add a laundry that provides ozone treated recycling processes that saves 80% of the water in recycling. So and that equipment has been we we need to add this little addition to put that that equipment towards equipments because it vibrates, and it's caused a whole vibration to that to that building. So that is kind of a separate little laundry that's necessary for being able to save the use of the of the existing building that where the existing laundry and where existing laundry will be the employees' area. So but we're keeping intact, the existing building there that has two units in it.

So, anyway, I might add that the owner has, in the past, she's developed this, put a lot of money into the utilities, all the electrical and TV and telephone and all that has been put underground. She's put in new piping. So trying to bring the whole up to good standards and then do these few units as as necessary to to move along and and complete the project. In addition to the four previous carport units that were done, there were other buildings, that have been rehabilitated too. There's been, I think, three duplexes and one three bedroom house that have been previously been worked on, again, in addition to but all of them following these these standards.

So Kent is here, if he wants to elaborate or if you have any questions of us.

Okay.

There is this problem of a river, which has constantly gone through that place. That it's standing is incredible given that circumstance. And so the business of life safety is there. A lot of this where we're going to do the slight moves and the light will adjust foundations and material that has been damaged over time. So we're trying to be as careful as possible.

It has to be the oldest motor court in the county, I think, at this point in place. And the only one I know of on the Carmel River, it is and for those of us who have lighter hair, it is a wonderful place for people to stop now and stay because they've got a reasonable proximity across the road if they can get across the road to restaurants, shopping centers, and the like. And I think that the the Davis team has done a wonderful job over time.

K. Thank you.

I might add that this has further complication that it's in a floodplain. Okay. So under the requirements of FEMA, and, all the new construction will be done with moisture resistant materials. So if it does flood again, that there there's no there's no deterioration or requirement to replace materials, just clean out in the in the cabins. And so we have to comply with FEMA standards and, in terms of all the utilities have to be raised above a certain height. So so we meet all those requirements as well as the historic.

K. So any questions from the board?

Have you heard as far as lifting any of these units, is have you dealt with public works or or anyone else?

I mean, lifting

Because up of the river. I mean, you the we're not you're not worrying about these the way they are right now, there's no potential that somebody's mentioned about needing to come back in to raise them or anything.

No. We have an exemption under FEMA.

Right. I mean

To to not have to raise them because that would take away the historical significance, because we'd have to raise them, I think, three or four feet above their existing floor level. And FEMA has allowed this exemption because of the creating of a historic district. And then under that historic district, then we can add we can do minor additions to the existing buildings with certain protections, which I made it, I stated, to allow us to keep the floor elevation as it is below below, floodplain, as long as it certified that we've taken the steps to protect the construction and so forth. So there's no need to move them up.

That was my well, my question, I guess, did did have they told you that in writing? Have you gotten it from anybody in writing, you know, from anybody? Well Is there as far as I guess, the word comes back here is talking about the minor, minor corrections or the minor additions. Does what you're proposing now fit within what you understand and what FEMA and everybody else understands to still allow you to be part of that, exemption?

That's correct.

Okay.

Alright. That's correct. In fact

That's my concern.

Yeah. In fact, all that has to has been certified that we meet the requirements of FEMA Mhmm. As as is, as we're doing.

Okay.

And that that was not an easy not an easy process to go through because we are in the floodplain, and, it's unique. But by by being historic, we have the exemption of not having to follow the the floor elevation requirements of of FEMA.

Yeah. Just we've we've just had the problem that, applicants have been able to do that. And then when they get to the actual construction, you know, portion, they get a different story. They say, it looks great, but then raise it up or do something rather. I just wanna make sure that, that there aren't any surprises for for you, for the owner.

No. We've done, altogether, I think, somewhere around 11 or 12 different buildings or units, including these duplexes. Okay. And they've all, you know,

a lot

of paperwork to certify, but but but there's been no problem.

Sure. Alright.

Yeah. Thank you.

Sure. I'm gonna take this opportunity to open this application up to the public. If anybody in the public would like to speak at this time, now is your opportunity. Okay. Seeing none, we'll close the floor to the public on this application. So back to the board. Any other comments as mentioned? Question. So when I went out there

the status of the district designation at this time?

The the historical district?

Yes.

That's that's been, that was established and recorded. That that's a recorded, meets and bounds describing the area and the and all of those buildings that are in it. So that's that's that that was finalized. I'm I'm guessing

'4? 2004.

24. I think it was later because, as we progress from 2004, started having difficulty. So probably about ten to fifteen years ago, we worked through this pro process that we could establish this historic district, and that would then satisfy their requirements. So those are all recorded documents that went through the county as well. Through county. Yeah. There is an there is a person on staff in public works that administers that that that clears everything that that we do.

K. Any other questions? No. I don't. Anybody like to

make a motion? Oh, I'm not done. Sorry. I thought you meant for the public. No.

It's closed to the public.

In replacing the fascia, in some buildings are flat fascia. Some are the decorative ornate fascia. Are you replacing them this directly in kind? So if it is a one that's, let's pick an example.

Matching in kind.

52 is black. Yeah.

They're matching in kind.

43 is is the so those are all gonna be replaced in kind.

Absolutely. Okay. The only issue on some of them is because of the carport and the doorway appeared on the rear elevation.

Yeah.

And now the rear elevation looks into vegetation.

Right.

The warfare. So the doorways have been the I think two doorways using the same door, materials will be brought around on the inside of the, carport itself, so it's easy access from

So you're in your report, it says that these some of these decorative fascias, not the flat, but the decorative ones, were put on in 1956, and your significant period kind of includes '56. But

Yeah. But it

That was a clarification I'm looking for saying, yeah, that's definitely part of what's coming back. Year. And replacement of the windows are gonna be are they still gonna be wood sashed and multi pane similar? Okay. I know it said that. Sometimes people see that, and then next thing you know, some of the windows there are not original. No. You know? And I get it. Mhmm.

During the process, you'll notice some of them already have that long term deflection in the roofs if you if you go out and look at them. I know you're adding to them. You're adding these wings to the front and the back. During that process, are you gonna try to, how do I say it, reinforce it from the interior so that they don't continue to get sway back?

Yeah. We we will we'll look at we'll look at that on a on a sit on a cabin based kind

of situation. All of them are.

But we will be adding what we're doing inside to weather weatherproof or or insulation proof is adding furring, so we're adding insulation inside. Okay. We'll be adding insulation in the roof so we can very easily beef up whatever we might need to.

I mean, you'll see it because because you go out there and it's like, they look great, and then one's just like a little. I'm like, well, that one's been aged a little longer than the rest of them.

That's right. Yeah. Well, that that will be that will be looked at.

Those are my only comments. Thank you.

They've all had several baths. Mhmm. They've all had several baths.

Quite a few.

It it is amazing, though, how well they've put up with, I don't know how many, at least two or three floods.

They are well cared for.

And and there hasn't been a lot there hasn't been any signs of a lot of settling

Right.

Which is good. Like you say, there's weathering of wood in terms of the roof structure. Right. But all that will will will take into account.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah. What's the

Go ahead.

Just in general, what's the time frame? I know the permits are in process and all that, but do you have a idea?

Well, we're, soon. We probably it's too late now because of the summer season. I I would imagine maybe fall. But the same builder contractor that's done some of the latter ones will be doing the so he has a lot of history in terms of of the property. We'd like to get the permits because then then we can proceed as he's available and as he's available in terms of of taking units out of, out of commission.

Thank you.

Yes. Even there is some hodgepodge because there was some aluminum windows, you know, added at different times. So they will only, you know, touch what they're actually impacting, and the rest stays as it is. So

they're adorable. But I I I definitely see where, they're very adorable little units. But, I drove by, and some lady's moving out. And she's just like, god. I can only hope it gets bigger. So even the tenants are are pretty you know, it's great, but you walk in, your bed's right there. It's you're you're in your living space, which is now your bedroom and everything. So That's right. I they're they're adorable units now. Mhmm. Okay.

Any other questions or comments from the board? No. Can we get emotional? Even the photographs don't do them justice when you see them in person. Yeah. The setting is Setting. Yeah. The setting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a little interesting area tucked in back there for sure. Mhmm.

I have a couple of proposed modifications to this. And the first one would be that in the second. In the first whereas, the date should be changed to April 21. That's right. This wasn't heard on the second. That's right. And at the bottom of page one, I'm not sure because I haven't been there, but it says the last sentence starts entry into the inn originally of Oliver Road. Is that on or off Oliver Road?

Actually, what it is is Oliver Road did as it is today as it comes off Highway 1 today and serves this property, used to path connect with Oliver Road through the residential development of the Mission Fields. And because of a few years ago when there was a before they widened Carmel on the highway going up to high, it backed up so people would cut through the neighborhood. And so the neighborhood said, why don't we close Oliver Road, so they don't can't come through our neighborhood. So that's why now Oliver Road, the original Oliver only serves this property. There is another Oliver Road that comes through the development, but that that's cut off, and that's the that's the history of that.

Must be off. Mhmm. Okay. Must be originally off Oliver Road. Okay.

And there is the public works has recommended that in in time we we approach the county to vacate that portion of of Oliver Road since it only serves this property. So that's that that may be something that would be pursued, but because of of the change.

Thanks for clarifying that. And, the last thing, would once again be to state that this is passed and adopt this if it is passed, passed and adopted on this, the April 21 instead of April 2.

Mhmm. K. Any other comments? Can we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the project with the draft resolutions with the three modifications as addressed during the comment period.

I'll second it. Okay. Any discussion on motion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Options approved.

Thank you. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you for your efforts. We appreciate it. Good.

Thank you, Kent. Thank

you, Liz. That was a great presentation.

K. So move on to other matters. Yeah. Thanks, Kent. So discussion of solar panels. Well, it's kinda talked about this. I know. I kinda had an email discussion with Craig about it. He mentioned that we could do a policy, but it's not enforceable. It's not legal. We'd have to do an ordinance to do that, and they don't have the ability to do any ordinance work on that. So It's

a oh, you mean the policy is not legal?

Yes.

The policy is restrict.

It's not legal. It's advisory. Advisory.

Yeah. And we would yeah. Because you can't restrict them.

That's we we won't be talking to

because Liz is here now too. Yeah. I think it's just, like, being able to if there's anything that we can do. So either sounds like we do nothing, or we could still push back to see if we could just say we would like to have, like, an advisory policy that says it'd be you know, if you're gonna put these on, if you're gonna have solar panels in historic districts, you do your best to to attach them so that if they're ever removed, that they do the least amount of damage. And if you can put them outside the public view, please do that.

Yeah. Primary elevation.

So Yeah. Yeah. I I I I don't see how well, I think we could ask still because I I can imagine it takes a lot of time and money and all those other kinds of things or ordinances and, you know, adopted policies. But if there if there's a way, maybe you talk again to Craig or maybe Liz could take it back to see what we wanna do.

Yeah. How far we could develop it or what what we need language wise so we can have at least that minimal amount of discussion. Right?

I think what we the end game, right, is that if somebody comes in and has questions. Yeah. If they have if they have, like, in or whatever, and they wanna put in a they wanna just to get the permit for solar panels. It's just to have for the counter staff in the back of their mind to say, look. This is an this is historical unit or historical district. Could you you know, is it is it is it are you able to locate these so that they don't impact, etcetera? And some you know, 90% of the people are probably gonna say, no. I never thought about that. Half will do it, half won't. But just to be able to have that suggestion is is I think all we can ask for.

Because, yeah, it's 1978. Since 2778 or whatever, they've had solar panels that you can't not do them. Mhmm. But we can ask. Same thing with ADUs. We could we you can't not have them. Right. But we could ask that they they pay as much attention to the historical aspects of a of a property as as they can.

And solar panels, some of it's installation too. You know, like, what become our manner, you know, we just ask that they keep them tight to the roof, you know, as tight to the roof as they can, you know, match the same pitch as the roof. Mhmm. And if it's a flat roof, I mean, you know, typically, you know, it's visibility, right, on a flat roof. And I have a lot of times on flat roofs. We actually install them flat. I mean, you lose some efficiency that way, but it would just be like a visual kind of thing. You don't know what would impact the primary elevation, I guess, mostly.

Just a recommendation. Yes. And this has nothing to do with any house in Monterey County at all, but dealing with a lady who had solar panels put on her house, not because she want them. She's got kind of talked into it, and they took them out. And the way they they were attached to the wall, maybe they didn't do it so good to begin with, but now it's caused, like, $75,000 worth of damage to her house because it just kinda, like, gaping holes. And the way they did them, they can't they can't patch them. And so there it's it's worth a suggestion. Yeah.

Kent, do you wanna come?

Yeah. In that regard, if you have an addition, all these ADUs going into historic properties depending upon the location of the ADU, That would be a defining principle when somebody's looking at what's the historic, what's not historic, but you'd have those panels on that indicator that that was an addition to the building, but its design is consistent with the character of the property and meets those rules. I would think that would be the simplest solution because of a lot of it goes to the rear or a side of the building envelope that, you know, doesn't work. I've got them on my my garage on my house, which is an historic property. Yeah.

And it it seems to me that it is a reasonable solution to energy, and it addresses the ability to tell what's old and what's new.

But they're always gonna get the argument, though, where they want more than that, more panels than that, or it's not you know, it doesn't have the right sign. So you're we're always gonna get those arguments. Ideally, that would be the place to put them. But, you know, we're gonna get the other, and that's just what we have. So

So is it worth after you've talked to Craig and maybe asking Liz too, is it worth it to make another run at it just to say we would like just to have this as a advisory, yeah, an advisory policy or something like that?

Yes. I I think we need some language to be able to speak

to it. Get it from the parts department because they actually have a technical report or something that says, oh, we're doing solar on historics. This is what you should do, and it's exactly what we're saying.

Yeah.

Pascot County has it in lots of places.

Yeah. So So we can use that as a reference or something? That's what

I would think. Okay.

That's the natural. Yes. Mhmm. That's where I saw it. Okay. So maybe we pull that document out if that's adequate. Well, I guess it'll be adequate enough right here. Well, I can heard of that.

We we did a memo on it that's got some stuff, so I could Okay.

Let's pull that back. Okay.

And then just ask again. Yeah. Just so

we have something run at it. So we we can speak to it at our hearing. Yeah. If not, we're just making stuff up. Right? I mean

And that and that gives it counterstep. It gives them a lot of direction. You know? Because sometimes you know? And it may not even be if somebody comes in for solar. It may not even be something that rises to the level of coming to our board, but they still have that ability to ask for the

You know, because Carmel Van, I mean, that's where it came to mind. John? Again.

I think solar is reversible because it's always on a plane to rope facing sunlight. So that would be an answer to that question. Does it you know, can it be reversible? Yes. Easily. But we taking it off. Yeah.

Because I know Carmel Manor

The policy should exist. And, does OHP or, the Fed have any anything that they've said on this? I haven't seen anything. Yeah.

We'll take a look at that. Yeah. Surely. But, you know, in a complex like Carmel Manor, they made sure to hold it back from the main road and not a significant building, so that was good on their part. So so same with the ADUs.

Yeah. We had that on the agenda too. You kinda matched them together.

Yes. Some well, I think I reviewed Pasadena or maybe it wasn't Napa for some reason, but Pasadena, it's distributed throughout their entire ordinance. I mean, you go to one section about this and an exception, historic structure shell. So they've really ingrained it into their full ordinance. It's not a separate set aside ordinance. It's like, oh, yeah. Go check out the organ, which I thought was pretty smart way to do it this way. Does it apply here? Of course. It's it's throughout the entire ordinance where it's applicable.

So, yeah. But ADUs, I'm not even I mean, they're just it's like a seed people are throwing out there, and they're just blooming everywhere. And, some of them are pretty substantial. Mhmm. So people are like, oh, yeah. These are just little cute little cottages in the backyard. Oh, no. They're they're becoming massive structures to themselves. I currently don't even refer to them as ADUs anymore. I call them a dwelling unit, and people go, no. Don't call them that. I go, they're not a guesthouse. They're not at this. It's a dwelling. People are living there.

People have a kitchen there. It's a dwelling unit. Mhmm. Accessory, I'm leaving that to the people in the planning department to figure out. But in my neck of the woods, that house is not accessory. I mean, it's larger than my house, and it it's yeah. They're they're turning in to be quite quite a moneymaker for people. And that's the that's the push where people are now they're not buying their homes to live in and raise families. They're buying these properties, especially on the Peninsula. They're buying these houses that they were gonna oh, you may rent them on the weekends, but now they have accessory dwelling units that they're building for themselves.

They're renting out the big houses. This it's all into that ordinance at your STRs. Oh, that's everybody's but this is how I'm gonna afford to keep my house. You're if you're in your eighties, that house is probably paid for. If you're in your sixties, if you bought it and to live there, chances are those houses are manageable. The taxes aren't let me get that straight. But, once you put the ADU on there, I think tax man comes and zaps you again. So I'm like, might help you, but it's also gonna hurt you in the other aspect. And people don't get that until I've seen several people who bounced out of their houses because they afford they thought, hey. I can afford the house.

They built it, then the taxman came in afterwards, and then every the upkeep, the everything, and they're like, I can't keep up with it. And I'm like, yeah. You should have kept that too little bedroom separate to itself, sold it to someone else to to to develop this, but they become quite massive structures.

You get

up to twelve

minutes per feet. Right? Mhmm.

Adding them on the back of a historic could make a significant impact. Mhmm.

Yeah. So that's the,

I I need clarification on that. So a detached ADU on a historic property, you guys can't really see those. But if it's an attached ADU to an historic structure, I would assume that we should bring it here.

I'm wondering if it's an you wanna talk about.

But eve even if they're detached in a historic district, like like, Sprackles, would I don't know.

I I asked John because there was one there's a couple ADUs in in Spratls. Yeah. And there was no policy.

Yeah. We didn't there's no way for us to really without something in language, right, for us to address it. But you know? And then once again, you kinda go, like, if you did it in addition where it's behind, you know Yeah. The primary kind of thing. And and I think that's where that would come in as well. You know? So it's not up fronters, you know, that packs the historic. So we'd have to get that in some kind of language, I guess. I don't know how we do with both of them, both the solar and the ADUs. You know? Maybe talk to Craig on how we best could get some language that is on the books enough so that we can comment on them.

Through the chair. There's already language for specific districts from the D District, HR districts, and Versus district for maintaining the appropriate character of design structures with its surrounding neighborhood. And it's only within the purpose statements of said sections, which is why I did not email them to you because it's just the same exact thing rephrased over and over again.

But

there is not we still try to ensure that whatever structure is being proposed within a certain type of neighborhood, regardless of its zoning district, still blends in with the surrounding character as well as does not impact public access. So if you want something that covers overall, then potentially, we you could pursue trying to develop design guidelines for all of them. But within the HR design and The US District, those are already covered since we've been adjusting the way that we approach our staff reports to be more in detail and requesting for consistency within staff's review for them to make alterations based off a LUAC recommendations and staff.

You even see okay. I'm playing devil's advocate because I have these coming in, and I fight them all the time. Do you even have the power to say anything about it with an ADU? I mean Oh, yes. I'll be honest with you. Now they have passed legislation that says you can have an illegal structure. It's illegal, and people are living in it. You can't deny them a building permit to call that a dwelling unit. And I'm gonna tell you, it's working. They have lawyers standing behind me saying shaking their head.

That's exactly what this that's exactly what the assembly bill passed. So I do have a structure that is soldier housing. I'm fighting, saying it's a historic use of the building, and they can't deny it. The city is attempting to deny it. They're not gonna be able to to hold it because they just passed legislation that said that was put there in the thirties. You mapped it in the books in the fifties when when the assessor started coming out. You cannot take it away. You have no right to take it. And so the guy's putting in an X-ray. Now he's got two eightyUs on the property.

You can't do that. Loss as you can. So I'm afraid that's gonna just obliterate. Yes. Must comply with character. Must comply with this. Must I don't know how that even plays into it. When they can say, you build a chicken coop. You occupied it. Nobody said you couldn't. Now now it's an ADU. I don't know how that to me, it's upsetting because I don't know how we're ever gonna regulate anything. If if that's the the powers of the state of California saying, nope. That's what you get to do. I don't know what

you do. But isn't well, code enforcement's gonna jump in. Mean, if it's not if it's not habitable, they're not gonna let you just slap an an ADU label on it. Oh, yes.

They are. Unless you can prove prove imminent threat. It's very strong language. Mhmm. Very strong language of allowing them to keep it. So if it's a structure that they can permit and a structure that meets health and safety under the under a provision of the health and safety code, which there's about 20 different items, and you can go through them and you can correct pretty much every single one of them on on a chicken coop. You you could go through and, literally, you could make it happen. And with my experience in construction, I know it can work. I use that same health and safety code to demolish structures. They're using and that's what I'm saying.

It almost has to prove that it's gonna be an imminent threat to someone's life or it is a, substandard structure by definition. Yeah.

But there there could they still have to correct it, what you're saying.

Yeah. They they could just say, I'm gonna keep it anyway. And as long as I patched you know, Band Aid it up to make it pass, there's no oh, it doesn't fit the character. I mean, let alone the character. I mean, we're just saying now they're saying you can move into a house that doesn't meet building standards, which I would think is much more rigid than someone's opinion of character. So that's why I'm going, I'm not sure. I was thinking, yeah. Yeah. I looked it all up. I'm thinking, yay. And then I read stuff like that, and I'm like, it's just so opposite of the other it's on the other side of this slide, really. So, not that I'm

What was it?

The public has it. The public I don't know how to say opinion? The public I don't have I have I'm so conflicted because I'm one who says, go get a permit. Get it done right. Do all of this. And now there's laws saying, ah, you don't have to. I don't know what's next. Mhmm.

Well, I do I do know. I'm looking. I found it. Pasadena is usually our friend with all of these kinds of solar panels and things, and they do I remember from a on their planning conference, they do have guidelines for ADUs. They do. Okay.

And they've and they've got a

more strict ordinance, though, but they do have guidelines. And so I'm gonna we could at least take a look at them Yes. And see if what we can

pick and choose because you're right.

We can't not do it, but we can we can hope we can at least have a position. Correct. Yeah.

Mhmm. Alright.

And we put it on the next the next agenda if there's anything else we can do. May and maybe an update from you talking John, you talking to Craig about No.

No. You have some

general policy With the commission. That goes.

Yeah. Well, I think it would be being reviewed. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're just running, which, you know, whatever you wanna call it. I think we just need language that Okay. Really? That we have the ability to comment. You know? Because right now, we don't have any language Right. That really allows us to to comment.

It must be flooded with ADUs, more so than building permits.

Yeah. Yeah. At least I had six staff reports due last week, and half of them included ADUs, and they have to be processed a lot quicker. Much quicker.

So Very tight time frames. I just that's why I'm like, I don't know how you keep up with that.

What about the water issue with ADUs, though? Water issues. Because I know in Carmel, you need water.

Water and septic. Mhmm. Yep. Those are probably the two things that hold them up the most,

I would

imagine. I've got five or six on my desk. People are just pulling their hair out going,

I

need it done now.

And I'm like, dude, you gotta get in line. I mean, the guy with his regular house is in line. He's been waiting in line. Sorry.

Just to clarify for pushing this discussion or just having this discussion during another meeting, do we want that to be on May 7 or the following month since we have one in two weeks, and today is the deadline?

But

Oh, no. No. We did

We currently do not have any any items coming up, for next month. So, usually, when we don't

have any items to present, we usually cancel the meeting. Mhmm. But since you guys wanted to do other matters, the question is, did you guys wanna come just for the other matters? I probably should push

it off to the next May 23.

Hand it off till Wait.

We don't need a special meeting.

June would be fine, John, don't you? June would be fine. Gives us some time to look up some things.

And I guess I sent the South Pasadena design. So if I don't have I don't think I've got your Armita, I know I have your add I have your address, but I don't have your Sheila. But I sent it around, and maybe we can get it to send out to everybody just to take a look. Mhmm. My email address? Yeah. Okay. When we're done, I'll I'll get it. Sure.

Good. Thank you. Any other comments? Just

as a side comment, before Phil left in regards to solar panels, He recommended that if there were questions in regards to installing them in historic resource districts or on historic properties to just recommend that they have a report to say that the roof is not a portion of the historic character that brings its yeah. The coffee is really not hitting this morning. We get it.

Okay. So we'll continue that. You're good? So the June meeting John?

Yes. I just wanna clarify. Is the Redborn residing are we gonna have it on the next meeting? She said no.

She said no.

We don't have anything right now on Matrix for for me.

Because the client said that he talk in the permit center and said, yes. He will be on the next a Yeah. That's And this is a month ago.

The the applicants tried getting ahead of their planner, and the planner is trying to schedule their LUAC at the moment. So I'm not sure when they will, but they they need to go through their planner or their permit tech first before getting scheduled, and they were struggling to understand that. So staff has had Because the last

mentioned it was up to John Scalcos as the chairman to determine when it will be on the agenda. That's what they said to him.

No. Yes.

Let's see. Oh,

it's the planner is is Do

I know about that planner? No. The planner in the building, they they they said that to the client.

You know who that was?

It could have been the clerk at the counter or the planner itself.

It was at the counter, and the planner came to the counter.

Oh. So I know I was asked if I thought it needed to be on the agenda.

Yes. I mean,

if it needed to go before HRB, and I said yes. But I Mhmm. I made no comment.

Because he wanted to add it to this meeting as part of it because it's it's very simple, but there are no changes in alterations on the building or anything. It's just replacing siding. That's it with identical materials and everything.

They had already passed the the notice date for it, so it was we were unable to schedule it. But we can discuss this at another time once they're on the agenda just to add a caution for Brown Act.

So you better let it let him know.

I've had multiple conversations with them.

They should know by now. Okay.

Okay. Any other discussions, comments, anything coming up that mhmm. I know we have a Mae gave a map presentation on Port Overleo Mansion yesterday. Mhmm. I guess if anybody was there, I know we have a subcommittee meeting with them tomorrow to review the project. And we did ask them to do a presentation before the board at some point so we can pin that down tomorrow so I can Mhmm. Do that. Nice. Okay. Anything else? K. Will you turn?

Yeah. I'll move to adjourn. Okay.

Mhmm. Second? I'll second. Okay.

Hopefully. No. You're adjourned. Cheers

to Robert if you don't need a motion.

Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Liz.