Township Council - Regular Meeting

Right.

Okay. Good evening everyone. I do want to

welcome to the township council conference meeting of March 17th, 2026 at 5:30 p.m. This is a well, it says a conference meeting up at the top. Down the bottom, it says a regular meeting of the council of the township of Montlair. It's being broadcast live on channel 34. It's streaming live on the Montlair TV34 YouTube channel and it's available on demand and can and will be rebroadcast. The meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meeting act. This meeting was included in the revised annual notice. The meeting schedule is set forth on resolution R-26-064 adopted by the township council at its regular meeting of February 10th, 2026 and advertised to the official newspaper on February 26th, 2026, posted on the township website and bulletin boards outside the municipal building and it has remained continuously posted. In addition, a copy of the revised annual notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of our township clerk. Please stand and join us for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Madame Clerk, whenever you're ready, will you please do the roll call? Deputy Mayor Anderson, here. Councelor Birmingham here. Councelor Damato here. Councelor Harrison here. Councelor Toller, good evening. Present. Good evening. Councelor Williams absent. Mayor Baskerville

present. Thank you. At this time, we are going to adjourn to the executive session. We have a resolution authorizing the executive session of the mayor and the council of Montlair without the public being permitted to attend in accordance with NJSA 10 col4-12B. The purpose of this meeting is for uh contract negotiations and to interview an individual for chief financial officer. We expect that we will probably be uh resuming the regular uh public portion of our meeting as close to 7:00 as we can. And at that time we welcome you to come back and join us and we'll have public comment and continue the meeting. Thank you so much. I

I so move. Second. Second.

We vote. You want to say all in favor? All in favor? I I opposed. Abstensions. Okay. and reassess. Yeah, you got the best information. Yes.

Thank you. I'd like to make a motion, please, that we exit the executive session and enter into the public portion of our meeting. Second.

All in favor? Any opposed? Abstensions. Okay, at this time um council please we will take a five minute um recess and then we will be ready to go um in 5 minutes. Thank you. Okay, good evening everyone. Thank you for joining us this evening. Um we going to continue the um public portion of our meeting. Um, first thing up is the pending ordinance on second reading 02603, an ordinance authorizing execution of a financial agreement between the township of Montlair and Lacawana Montlair Urban Renewal LLC. We are going to uh continue the public hearing and so if there are people here that wish to be heard, we're going to ask please that you come forward. This part

of the meeting is only on the um public hearing for this. if you signed up over there and you have an opportunity to discuss anything. So, are there people here that wish to be heard on this?

Good evening.

Hi, good evening. Diane Angland 158 Orange Road. I'm here as a resident in Montlair, not representing any organization or affiliation. Um, but I am requesting well I am first in support of moving forward with Lacana Plaza. Um, but I'm also really concerned that this keeps getting pushed and pushed. We elected you all to make decisions coming here and I don't want to do this or somebody's not here. I understand all of that. But if this is a situation based on anything other than like if if you're no, vote no. If you're yes, vote yes. But don't base your vote on what somebody else is doing. your constituents in your area voted you in to represent the people. This kind of soft way of doing governance is not what we voted you in for. Yes, I want Lacawana, but I want you as our council people to make a decision. This has gone on way too long. It's not about race. It's not about wards. It's about what your decision is for the township of Montlair as a representative. Let's get this done.

Hello, my name is Michelle Ward. I am at 30 Harvard Street. Um, and I support the pilot for Lacawana and also encourage a yes vote. Thank you. Thank you. Next, please.

Charles Rosen, Irwin Park. Um I came before you last uh meeting to suggest why I thought there was value in the in the in the project itself. But I did want to just stress tonight that um as we look at the situation with our schools, as we look at the um requests from our police department and our fire department, all things that we value in this town tremendously. And as we see that we have few other revenue streams other than our property taxes, which I know is getting very difficult for most people in this town to bear, and we have an opportunity like a project like this that can bring real capital into our township to support the things that we care about, I strongly urge you to vote yes to for Lana Plaza. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi. Um, I'm going to uh take the exact opposite position of my friend Diane Angland and the previous speaker. Um, I don't think it's too late to get a plan and a pilot that will benefit this town. It can't be too late. This has to absolutely be guaranteed to be good for the future of Monontlair. Too many questions here. Um, there will be a lot of people speaking after me who will raise some of them. But as I'm sure you've seen, there has been quite a lot of comment about the structure of this particular pilot and about pilots in general. This particular pilot is not taxpayer oriented. It is developer oriented. It is unacceptable for that alone. Now, I want to start by reading to you again from the very preient and late Joan Pransky's letter to the council just before she died last fall about the entire project. Other people are going to take up the rest of my time. So, I want you to allow the flow of the letter to come at you. She urged the council to deeply consider the impact on the town of giving away in her opinion and mine uh tax money and income that is only speculated uh upon by the developer that would benefit the down. The structure of the pilot does not guarantee that. Okay, here's where she begins in uh close to

the top of her letter and I will hand off to others. To put a 10% pilot in perspective, consider a 10% pilot for Mont the a Monontlair homeowner of an average home assessed at $650,000. If that home was rented for $5,000 monthly or $60,000 annually, the homeowner would pay only $6,000 in pilot monies to the township. We know, however, that the homeowner's taxes are far greater than $6,000. In fact, that homeowner probably pays at least $16,000 a year in property taxes. Now, I think it's up to 20, isn't it? Anyway, representing 24.6% 6% of the property's value. Imagine the town's budget if we all got a 10% pilot. BDP will surely claim that it needs this break in order to be induced to build on that very, very desirable piece of our town's land. Is that credible? Monontlair's real estate market tells us otherwise. Over the last several years, we have watched residential real estate values in Montlair dramatically rise. Developers have brought up every available single two, three, four family property and multiple dwelling in sight. Rehabbing, reconstructing, flipping, selling, and renting in every corner of Monontlair. We know that home values are up about 1 up to about 1.26 26 million from about 690,000 from 2020 to 2024. A faster growth rate in value than both the county's 37% growth rate and the state's 44% growth rate in that four-year time. She goes on about the

rental properties, which I've also think are um getting a cap on what this project will do to rental rates is very important and I know that the NAACP and Mr. Scott will be discussing that with you further. Um I'm going to skip down now and then hand over in one second. the

we can continue and and I'm going to let you have your it um I apologize to you. I should have announced the three minutes um time for this and so um I noticed that our timer wasn't on. I didn't announce it. My apologies. Please moving forward. Understand that we two paragraphs three minutes. Yeah. No, I'm sorry, but I just wanted to make sure that people knew that.

I think I'm over three. The pilot program was designed to encourage developers to build in what would otherwise be considered an undesirable area where developers would likely have trouble renting or selling. To secure a pilot, the developer is required to show that its project would not yield an adequate rate of return and would not be economically feasible without the pilot. While we've seen those reports since Joan wrote this, it is still judged to be a risky project by the town's own consultant. While Lacabana Plaza site may satisfy the letter of the law, being an area in need of redevelopment, the intended plan is surely not a needy development and it is certainly not to be built in a needy town. Good evening everybody. My name is Lynn Stockhammer. I'm only going to read for a minute, maybe two, because I'd like to speak about something else later. Um,

you can have your three minutes um here and then if you wanted to speak about something but this is just for this particular

Okay. Thank you very much. Well, the L um as as Tony Martin just said, um while this may satisfy the letter of the law, it's certainly not the spirit of the law because this is not a needy town. The Lacawana Plaza project covers 8 acres and is proposed to include, now when Joan wrote this in um July, I don't know if this is the correct amount, 300 rental apartment units and tens of thousands of square feet of retail commercial development right in the middle of our booming town. Is it believable that in Monontlair's thriving real estate market, the Lacawana project won't be sufficiently lucrative without a pilot? What possible justification could BDP have for a pilot, especially a minimum decadesl long pilot? Is there a likelihood that without the pilot, BDP would abandon the project? According to recording recorded documents, BDP paid approximately 34 million for more than 8 acres. BDP clearly secured a great deal. Ah, glasses. If anything, it is more likely that after securing a generous redevelopment agreement and 10% pilot, BDP with no experience in developing a project of this size will grab its highly lucrative deal, sell for a fast profit and pass the project on for another redeveloper to build. Thank you, John Pransky. You got it. Yeah. Bonnie Fogle to continue. Um, is it is BDP's plan? It's not BDP anymore, Lynn. Uh, so generous that it deserves a pilot or a minimal pilot? Minimal pilot from the town. The plan does require 20% affordable units and 10% workforce housing. In reviewing the updated LA Lacawana plan, however, the planning board issued a report

pointing out that the inclusion of 20% affordable and 10% workforce housing units would not ensure the continued sustainability of the current economic diversity of the neighborhood, an important consideration under the township's master plan. Um, in any event, Monontlair has its own inclusionary zoning ordinance. That ordinance already requires all developers of new construction who build in areas not designated as areas in need of development to set aside 20% affordable units. And the town planner Janice Thally recently recommended that Monontlair's inclusionary zoning ordinance be increased from 20% affordable units to 25 because they are not in designated areas in need of redevelopment. There are no accompany pilots for this new construction. Even without pilots, these developers do just fine. My own inclusion. Um, uh, a few people I know who have the background have done a very careful study of all the pilots in this town. And there's no evidence of the township benefiting from any of the pilots in a greater way than they would if the developers just paid their taxes like all of us do. The Lacawana plan also calls for a supermarket and we told that the supermarket is something that the developer is giving to the community. While the community desperately wants a supermarket at the site, we are certainly not getting what is needed. It is not a supermarket on Bloomfield Avenue with convenient parking for the town's people. It is a supermarket in the middle of the Lacawana Plaza development. It is really believable that the residents of the town, especially in the food desert south end, are going to drive into the middle of this project, park on a second floor parking deck, shop at the Lacawana Market, and then return to the second floor deck to unload their groceries. Obviously not. Once they're in their

cars, they're much more likely to just drive to Shopright in Bloomfield, as many do now. Um indeed, the planning board report noted that the plan had not clearly defined the supermarket intended to be built and that insufficient consideration had not been given to the location of the proposed market, how customers will enter and exit and perceived inconvenience to supermarket patrons from parking decks and escalators rather than easy firstf flooror access by those who drive to the supermarket. The supermarket in the Lacawana Plaza is designed to serve the residents living inside Lacawana's 8 acres so that when they get off at Bay Street, they can stop at the market, grab a few things, and go to their units. There's nothing wrong with a market design to do the residents of Lacawana City. And for I know many of you go to planning board meetings, but I I used to go to every planning board meeting and I recall there being an almost there was only one party who a agreed that this was okay and there were great exceptions to the uh characteristics of how this supermarket is planned. Thank you for your patience.

Thank you. Next guest please. Anson Pope Elma Street. Um, as Diane England said, you were all voted here to make decisions for us. You made a decision to assign uh everything to BDP Holdings for redevelopment of Lacawana Plaza. My question for you is, what qualifications did the developer submit to the township to demonstrate himself as a qualified developer as required by New Jersey statute title 4A, Chapter 12A? It's a question for the council or any of the members of the governing body that deal with that.

Okay. Generally, generally during this session, we don't have um a back and forth communication. It's important that we hear from you. We're taking notes. Um Okay. And then Yeah, we Well, then then I'll I'll I'll list all my other questions.

Okay. Um, what past projects, local or elsewhere, can you point to that would show he is qualified? Have any of you seen those projects? There are also additional requirements that a qualified developer be in good standing with the New Jersey departments of labor, Treasury, and Environmental Protection. To your knowledge, is the developer currently in good standing with those departments? Does the developer have the funds to finance and produce this development? I currently live next to 10 Elm Street. You might remember it as Benderian carpets. It's been an empty lot for 2 years now. That's what happens when people don't have the money to build these developments. So, we have a pilot. I'm not in favor of that. I'm also curious who Lacawana Urban Renewal LLC is. Are they the redeveloper now? Is it not BDP Holdings? Why is there no transparency on this? I believe the public should know exactly what the entity is. Is it a partnership? Is it a qualified developer? Who who are these individuals? That's of concern to I think many of us in the community and why we do not support your voting on the pilot tonight in favor of it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um just for the the audience members that don't know, if you have, you know, some questions and you want us to reply to them, we're pretty good with if you send us an email. Um and that's that's one way. and then we can try to make sure that the appropriate people will address them. Good evening, Mr. Scott.

Okay. Good evening, Mayor and Council. And I did send uh my document into the uh entire council and it deals with CA um case for applying rent control to newly constructed affordable housing units in Lacawana Plaza. Monler has a severe housing uh affordability problem. Public opinion and housing data both show affordable housing is a major concern in Monontlair. In a survey was done and it came back 62.29% of the residents of Monontlair supported affordable housing. Yet the rents in new construction buildings are far above most uh residential afford residential units. Uh, and I provided an example, and I use 37 uh, Orange Road, the Clare Apartments, which were recently built on Orange Road. Um, a one-bedroom apartment currently is $2,400. A one-bedroom apartment is $3,200. A two-bedroom apartment is $5500. If you roll that out uh over the next 10 years, uh those units uh would probably be an example of what the starting prices of the units in Lacawana Plaza would be. And you would be uh looking at units that would be a studio would be close to $2,600. A onebedroom $3,600 possibly. A twobedroom $6,100. And a threebedroom if there were three bedrooms in that uh development could be over $6,400. A typical one-bedroom apartment would cost per year close to $40,000. In order for someone to afford that, they would have to have an income close to u $31,000 of income to afford a one-bedroom apartment in Monontlair.

Over n over 900 over 958 units currently are exempt from rent control in Monontlair. And that's because we did not uh apply any controls on those units. But there was a state uh exemption allowing several of the uh major developments that we've had over the last 25 years to be exempt from rent control even though we did not have it many many years ago. But we can see that those units have basically set a much higher higher price for housing in the township of Monontlair. Uh and also in addition to over the last 25 plus years, we've only supported a 10% set aside for affordable housing. We've lost over a 100 units of housing. And I really want to be clear when I say units. We've we've allowed over a 100 families not to have housing in Monontlair. So, we should start thinking about not units but families that have not had the capability of living in Monontlair because of our lack of commitment for affordable housing. I'll continue to see if I can get well uh I'm going to run out of time, but I did send this document to you. The point being I think that Lacawana Plaza should come under rent control even though there's a state exemption. You have the capability through uh negotiating at this point because if the pilot is something that the developer strongly needs, you have the capability of asking the asking the developer to not take advantage of that exemption because when you roll these units out two to three years from now, they will be the highest market rate uh units in the township and they will continue to disproportionately offset the affordable housing units that we have under control from our rent control ordinance. So, we really need to take a hard look at that. Again, I did send everyone that information. I appreciate the mayor

responding. Uh deputy mayor responded. Uh Miss uh Birmingham, you responded and and I had a brief conversation when we had our first town hall meeting about this uh at the uh at the firehouse. So, there is a real concern that we need to bring this these units under control from an affordable housing standpoint. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please Avery. Hi Sarah Avery, Monontlair resident. Um, I have a question as to how the project value uh was determined, which is really the basis for uh Mike Hanley concluding that uh a pilot is necessary. You know, on the one hand, he says the project value based on conventional taxes is 297 million. On the other hand, he says it's um $320 million. Now, the project costs $326 million to build. So right off the bat, you have to say how can it be that the value of the project is not at the very least the cost. Now, if you take a look at the alister, which by the way, um, the same attorney who is representing the town in connection with this Lacawana Plaza pilot represented the owner of the Alistister back in the early 2000s, and it is a very bad deal. The project cost $35 million to build. The certificate of completion was issued

in September 2011. One year later, one year after the certificate of completion was issued, the property was sold for a 50% profit. It cost 35 million to build. It sold for 53 million, $18 million profit. Tell me why that needed a pilot. Nine years later, the Alistister was sold a second time for $78 million, another $25 million profit. The pilot also required the owner to build a 6,000 square foot daycare center, which no one has ever seen a daycare center in the Alistister. The building is assessed at $18 million. I just told you that it sold for $78 million recently. That's $60 million of value which we cannot tax because when the re-evaluation is performed in 2028, that's $60 million will not be subject to tax. But there's going to be 60 homeowners in Montlair whose homes are valued at a million dollars. and they are going to have to pay the tax. More history because Mike Hanley claimed his financial projections were based on

history. More history to South Willow. The project cost $87 million. It was completed in 2021. The certificate of completion was issued in November of 2023. One year later, the building was sold December 2024 for a 20% gain. There is no there is absolutely no reason for pilots to be issued to any developer in the township of Monontlair. Hi.

Hi, Laya Mayer. I live at one Clover Hill place across from the proposed development. I'm going to continue to read Joan Pransky's letter into the record starting at the beginning of the paragraph where Bonnie left off. The supermarket in Lacawana Plaza is designed to serve the residents living inside Lacawana's 8 acres so that when they get off at Bay Street, they can stop at the market, grab a few things, and go to their units. There's nothing wrong with a market designed to serve the residents of Lacawana City. Such a market makes those units more desirable to the occupants and promotes increased rents for the developer. But BDP should not pretend that it will serve the needs of the greater community. I provided Ellen Birmingham, my council person, with the article entitled the supermarket rent sweep, analyzing multif family rent premiums generated by grocery store anchors, which she can hopefully share. Many such articles exist. In addition to some of the above comments from the planning board, the board noted its concerns regarding density, height, scale, explaining that the buildings are out of scale with the scope of the surrounding area and would significantly impact the quality of life for neighborhood residents. It detailed many other elements of the plan that did not truly meet the town's needs. For example, with regard to open space, the report raised concerns about the scope and quality of open space, whether it was truly usable to the public, whether the limited amount of open space was an adequate trade-off for the increased height, bulk, and density. With regard to traffic, the report identified overburdened main traffic roadways. You simply cannot live in this town without experiencing the downtown traffic and parking headaches and worrying about the nightmare that a fully developed Lacawana Plaza will bring. The planning board's report prepared during the coun councelor Loffman's time there is thoughtful and comprehensive. I ask you all to take a look at the report to understand the limits of BDP's offerings to the town as compared to the town's

giving to BDP. It is also worth remembering that prior that the prior redevelopers of Lacawana Plaza, Hampshire and Pinnacle Companies had been approved for only 153 units, not the 300 units approved for BDP. And its plan included a set aside for 20% affordable units and a supermarket as well. Nothing about BDP's redevelopment plan warrants a pilot. Certainly not 10, not a 10% pilot. The Wellmon East pilot was 13% year 1 through three, then 14% year four, then 15% beginning year five. As part of the Wellmon deal, Wilmont built a parking deck spending in excess of 10 million. The parking deck belongs to the township and generates about one4 million yearly for Montlair, which will increase over time. Wilmont also took responsibility to for the care and maintenance of the surface parking area for the town's permit parking area off South Fullerton. Still, the Wellmont developers walked away with a generous profit. In 2024, the township provided a chart showing the payments to Montlair from its pilots as compared with what it would have received if the same properties had paid taxes based upon their assessments. I will let him thank you. Oh, I just want to add I I wanted to read that portion of it because being right across the street, I still I've been this conversation's been going on for a very long time as you know. I cannot fathom what's being proposed across in that parking lot. 300 units. I don't understand. The traffic is going to be a mess. It's already a mess there. So, just, you know, please consider what's happening not only to the entire n neighborhood and all of Montlair, but the neighborhood around too. Thank you.

Thank you. Next guest, please. Hello, my name is Candy Cooper. I am a longtime resident of Mont Clair uh Midland Avenue and I am picking up on the Joan Pransky uh letter. Uh the town received a 5.9 million in pilot monies. Had the same properties paid taxes, if build in full, the total to the municipality would have been 7.5 million. That's a loss of about 2.6 million, a loss that other taxpayers shoulder. Go back over the last years to see just how much of a loss loss from pilots that Montclarians have borne. I hope this helps you in your dealings with BDP regarding any pilot request and that you are not persuaded to be more concerned with its rate of return than to making sure to secure the most tax money possible for Montlair residents who are now facing dramatic tax increases. I do remember many of you raising concerns about pilots, whether they were truly necessary to encourage investment in Montlair and whether they truly served the town. You now have a real opportunity to act get to get the most tax dollars for Montlair citizens. It seems clear that the township is giving the BDP an incredibly generous deal and that no pilot is needed to make the Lacawana Plaza project work. You are empowered to reject any pilot or to set a maximum percentage and a minimum duration. It seems equally clear that the township and its citizens are disserviced by a pilot, especially a minimum 10% pilot for a maximum 30-year duration. With regard to the redevelopment agreement itself, I urge you to make

sure the agreement details a construction timeline setting forth a prompt beginning date and short end date over which the Lawana project must be completed, providing significant consequences to BDP and a simple enforcement mechanism available to the township paid at BDP's expense in the event the project is not timely built in accord with the agreement. We are presently witnessing the Church Street property idle and partly constructed. As you probably know, BDP's holdings principal, David Placeic, has purchased numerous properties in Montclair, many surrounding the municipal court building. These properties have not yet been developed either, and instead they too are in various states of disrepair. Any redevelopment agreement regarding the Lakawana project should carefully spell out a responsible construction timeline and enforcement process. In addition, the redevelopment agreement should address the order of development. BDP's commitments to the township such as the affordable and workforce unit and the supermarket should be set to be completed first. The township should also make sure that the agreement includes a performance bond financially guaranteeing its commitments to the town. Thank you.

Thank you. Next guest, please.

Good evening. Stuart Rubin Road. Hi. One of the few things that all sides seem to agree upon nationally is that there's a housing shortage. At the state level, all the states agree there's a housing shortage. At the county level, it's probably true also. Once it gets to the local level, you're not alone, right? Anti-development, pro-development, it's being acted out throughout the country. So, what do you do? You hear from people that are you're now going to vote on the pilot. You hear from people, lay people, but they're really experts on pilots and they have the data. For me, if there's any money in this deal, it's a no-brainer. There's symbolism in in action on this. The town is taking hits left and right. and to let this go by this opportunity which is here because it's not the perfect one. It's not the greatest one. It's not the one that we can anticipate 20 years down the road what the markets will be like. There's speculation. There's risk all over you know being too conservative. There's risk in that. Uh I really think you have to advance this. I you know everybody speaks out it's such a valuable property and I could see it is it's the best the biggest intersection in town. two county roads, but yet nobody's done it in the 37 years I'm here. So if it's so desirable, why why didn't something get done? So you have this deal. Everybody, you all must know David Place by now. If there's a guy that seems pretty trustworthy, all the questions that have been raised, he does to me from what I

Excuse me. Go to the fundraiser, see what he's doing. you have somebody who's who is involved in the community and understands the community. The fact that you're that people the murmurss are crazy. You know, last time I I held up a picture last time, some zealot kind of followed me in the hallway. He's screaming at me. I mean, everybody's got to like calm down. You've got a big decision. You you have to balance this and come out on the right side. And the right side has has a symbolism to it about the township at this point in time. Don't let the veto chorus out here. You know, everybody wants to say it's no because of my issue, my issue, whatever it is. You have to do the balancing here and represent the entire community. I think you should vote yes. I hope you vote yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Um I just want to um please re remind all of our guests in here that we try to run this in a respectful manner and if people say things and you're not in agreement with it's okay, you'll have an opportunity to come up to the mic also. and I hope that when you're speaking, people will give you the respect of your time when you're here. Thank you. Good evening. I'm

Good evening. I'm Kyle Wright, uh 242 Grove Street, resident of Monontlair for the last six years. Uh I share the same sentiment of the last gentleman. Um, I've been coming to a couple of these meetings and noticed there is a contingent of folks that have their sort of opinions around stuff and I am all for a comprehensive sort of plan and the the construction of this project and I know that all of you will follow the rules and keep David and BDP holdings under, you know, the right accountability for the project. It needs to happen. It's taking too long. I thank you. Vote yes. Thank you so much. Next guest, please.

First of all, no one said it. Happy St. Patrick's Day. And to you, too. I like that green. Thank you.

Well, one thing maybe we can all all agree agree upon. Uh Copeland Burchie, uh former resident of Montlair, but first moved to Montlair in 19 for 19 1948. So, I have some stature and only recently moved. But Montlair is the center of the surrounding community and what happens in Montlair is still extraordinarily important to the entire in to the entire entire area. In 1948 when I first moved here, Lacawana Plaza had two tracks and one of those tracks brought in the cars for half a dozen car dealers and the other ones were commuters. Things have changed over the time, some some for the better, some for the worse. But the one thing about Montlair that not has not changed is a diversity of opinion about anything and every and just about everything. Is this project per perfect? Of course not. And and it never will and it never will be. That's that's the art of compromise and that's and that's what life life is all all better. But I ask you to take a different view of all of this and and what's the alternative? And what's the best alternative to this? I doubt is to have it goow for another 10 another 10 years while we try to find another developer who may or may not be attracted to come after the last few have have have failed. As far as the pilot is concerned, I'm not going to address that directly other than I think it is a a pure fact that the developer will have a very hard time getting the ne necessary financing to do this project and to do it to the standard that we would like to see it done without the support of the town. And I think we need to stand behind it. I think we need to move move forward for forward with it and not and and not let the diversity of opinion uh stand in the way of what's the what's best for all the uh uh for for the entire community.

As the old saying goes, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the any of the good. So, thank thank you. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Next guest, please.

Um good evening. My name is Levi Seagull and I live in Ward 2. I'm a senior at Monontlair High School and I urge this council to vote yes on the Lawana project. I plan to study urban planning in college as as over the past few years I become deeply invested in housing affordability and sustainability. What I've learned is that restriction on building denser housing is a significant contributor to the housing shortage that Montlair and the rest of the country is in. When we constrain new housing from being built in a high demand area like Montlair, we drive up prices as a demand uh as the demand for housing outweighs the supply. As a result, home ownership is nearly intatable for young families. The more you restrict new housing, the more affordability worsens. It is so important to have an even distribution of affordable housing so that every resident of a town can get the same opportunities as every other resident. While issues over neighborhood character and traffic are important, they are not incompatible with growth. Look at the recent Seymour Plaza and Valley and Bloom apartments. Those development include higher density housing, but also include human scale elements like public space that enhance the quality of life for nearby residents. The Lawana Plaza, the Loana uh plan is exactly what we should be encouraging by adding hundreds of units, many of which are designated to be affordable. It gives hundreds of people the opportunity to live in Montlair and contribute to our vi diverse community. In addition, the amount of high-quality public transit options nearby gives future residents abundant job access without the financial burden of car ownership. And since residents will not need to own a car, this development will not substantially increase traffic levels like we may like we would think. I do not believe that this development undermines Montlair's community. I actually believe it strengthens it. I have always known Montlair as a lively, walkable, diverse, accepting community. This development contributes to this aspect of Montlair that I love so much. If we are serious about making Montlair more accessible, affordable, and environmentally sustainable, then we

need to allow more homes to be built, not fewer. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Good evening, everyone. My name is Noah Gail and I have been a resident of Montlair since I was 5 years old for over two decades. since Friday, June 24th, 2005, and I am now almost 26 years old, grown man, adult, a grown-up man, adult. Anyway, um I and I love everything about Montlair. However, I highly encourage you to vote yes on Macana Plaza, just like what Diane England said and other speaker and some of the other speakers have said because do you know what? She made a good point and I actually agree with her. just when we voted you into office, you said all of you, you said you were going to do things that um that you promised. And I feel like we see this on both sides of the aisle, no matter who it is, on both sides of the aisle. That I always I notice a lot lately that politicians, they always say they'll get their promises, they'll get things done on the campaign, but then the problem is once they're elected, once they're sworn in and take the oath of office, they don't do anything. Please do your part and do what you promised your constituents, your residents in the township, your voters. Please get your promises done. Vote yes on Lalana Plaza.

Thank you. Also, um I am here tonight. Let just see how much time I have. I know I only have three minutes. Okay, good. I have time. I just wanted to say bring back first night next New Year's Eve, please. Thanks. No, this part is just for this ordinance, but you can come back later if you signed up and give us discussion on some other things. You can get another three minutes. Sounds great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We appreciate you. Next guest, please.

Claire Silata, 279 Park Street. I believe that the town is at a crossroads here. When I moved here, it was because it had houses, not apartments. I've lived in New York City. I lived in many burrows in New York City. I lived in Hoboken in apartment for many years. I loved it. But Montlair is known for houses. And now what is happening is it seems that most of the things that come before the planning board are not about houses. there about apartment houses that are changing the character of this town in ways that we can predict. For example, traffic. I live on Wong Plaza. I used to like walking there. Now I take my life in my hands. So if you approve this, which I do not agree with, so I want to be clear about that. If you approve Lacawana Plaza, who is responsible for seeing what happens and correcting any problems? Who is responsible for making sure that the developer keeps whatever word he gives you, whatever agreement he gives you? because we've seen at Wong Plaza that you've given permission for people to build apartment houses and they do not keep their word and nothing happens. So you are about to give a huge gift to this man and I agree there's no need for a pilot not with prices in Montlair today and the we are going to pay for it. The homeowners are going to pay for it. He's not going to pay for it. He's going to make a bundle. So, who is responsible? Are you responsible? Is the planning board,

which seems super pro-development, responsible? Who checks up as to whether this is done the right way after it's completed? How long it takes to complete? Who of you is responsible for that? Because when you approve these things, it's not just this moment. It's forever. You have changed the entire community by these decisions. So, I'm asking you to please, please let me know. I'll send you all emails. Who is responsible for cleaning up any mess for making sure that this guy holds to what he agreed to? Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Nicole Farjiani. I'm winging it here because I came for another topic. But I was inspired by all these speakers and mostly inspired by Miss Pransk's letter to you all

and I hope everybody was listening. And I I if I was thinking correctly, I would have compiled a video of any of you up on there that before you ran for this office what you said about pilots. I can go back and we can make cuts and make a little video of what everybody said back then because it seems like people say things to get elected and then when they get up there they change and that's that's unfortunate because a lot of us remember what some of you said about pilots. Now I am not against development actually. Um Monontlair um Monontlair um is losing its specialness though. It's losing its specialness and if you all don't have friends that are being pushed out by the cost then find yourself privileged because a lot of my friends have been pushed out and your votes matter and your votes are pushing them out. So we will all remember who did this and why Monontlair is losing its specialness. You have an opportunity to have development that is smart, that is thoughtful, and that keeps humans first. We're not Trump here, right? We're not that kind of developer. We try to keep humans first in our thoughts and in our votes. So if you're not helping people that are getting pushed out of their homes by some miraculous lowering of their taxes so they can stay in Monontlair after they've been here for generations, then why are you giving a developer that will make a ton of money on this a break? If you're not helping actual people stay in their homes to raise their kids and hopefully their kids can raise their grandkids, your grandkids here. If that can't happen, then what is this? What is this? Is this just Trumpville? Should we

rename it? Because developers will come and as smart people looked up the information. Thank you. They make they make bank here. So pe keep people first in your votes because we're watching as you can see. Thank you. Next guest, please.

Linda Cranston, resident of Montlair. The New Jersey state controllers comprollers office has been warning municipalities in New Jersey for years not to use pilots other than in rare circumstances where there's need for development and there's no other way to get it done. They did an an analysis in 2010 that you can look up googling New Jersey state controllers report PDF file pilots to get the details on how detrimental it is for communities in terms of revenue. Millions of dollars was lost to New Jersey municipalities. And a a simple summary, they found that pilots often lack transparency, oversight, any formal evaluation, creating a system that disadvantages school districts and counties. Municipalities frequently use these tax abatements without analyzing if they were needed. often directing resume res revenue away from schools to municipal budgets. Millions of dollars has been have been lost. They've been pointing that out. So I you really need to look at the details of that. That's our that's our state expertise that's available to all of you before you make a decision.

Thank you very much. Mr. Cranston, next guest, please. How are you?

Hi, I'm Eric Schroer. I live at five Roosevelt Place. Uh, I'm on the school board. I want to make it absolutely crystal clear. I am not speaking for the school board. I'm speaking for myself and myself only. Um, one thing I do know about pilots is that the district does not get any money from them. And when we've raised this issue with you all before, many of us about sharing, you've talked about new pilots. We can't do it for the old pilots because that money is already allocated. But we can do it or it's possible well it's possible to do it for the old ones and I would request you to do that. But now if you're thinking about entering into a new pilot there will be children in those in that building hopefully fair number of them because hopefully they're affordable uh that will be going to our schools and we need to educate them and we need the money to do that. And one of the things that I haven't heard and haven't studied up on, and I hope that you can uh explain to me how much of the pilot money or what percentage of the pilot money, if there is a pilot, will be shared with the district to educate those children. So, uh I hope that you'll consider that and make that a crit a critical priority. We need to get something built. We need to get it built right. We need to have it fair. We need to have affordable housing. And we need to have money to educate those children. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Good evening. My name is Lonnie Summer Padilla and I'm a resident of Montlair. Um, I think that there's a bigger picture here if we zoom out a bit. And I think it, you know, also if we just boil it down, it comes down to affordability. Um, we just had a vote to decide on whether or not to raise taxes to avoid serious cuts to our school district. The result isn't clear, but what is clear is that our community is truly split on priorities and approach. Now, if you vote on this pilot, that means that the tax burden for homeowners will not be relieved. But it does mean that the township will have a new source of unrestricted funds, which can be used to offset some of the burden to taxpayers to fund the municipal budget. It also means that the township can share some of that pilot revenue with the district. Now, it looks like the result of the vote to raise the tax levy for the schools on question two didn't pass. And it just and it is just not okay for our community to say no to the schools with that vote and to also say no to a pilot that can be shared. So, our township and schools are facing skyrocketing costs to cover health care benefits and other items. The reality of our situation in Montlair here is quite dire. There are ways to address affordable housing with policy and we should. The pilot is too low. It needs to generate revenue for the township and have enough to share with the schools and then when that happens I think we can move forward with the pilot and the development of Lacawana. It's time. Thank you.

Thank you. Next guest please. Good evening. Good evening and happy St. Patrick's Day.

And you. My name is Johanna Coxer and I live in the fourth ward and I hope somebody can clarify the pilot I thought was not covering the schools and it's better to not have a pilot so that the money does go to the schools. So hopefully somebody can clarify that. Uh but I'm here to just briefly say a little bit of math. Why are we giving developers pilot subsidies when history shows that as soon as they get their certificate of completion, they turn around and sell the property for 20 million more. This was true for the Alistister and it was true for South Willow. So the last thing I will say is thank you very much. Thank you. Next guest please. Madame Mayor, council Ro third ward resident. Um the proposed lack of one apilot agreement has several provisions that taken together materially limit the likelihood that residents will ever get to participate in the upside of the tax concessions, density bonuses, zoning approvals, and most importantly, town culture helped create. The most impactful of these is the inclusion of returns on institutional equity financing in the definition of debt service. This is highly unusual. As you know, equity holders are legally entitled to all cash flows that remain after taxes and interest are paid. So theoretically, the developer could distribute all cash flow after interest and tax and never report any net profit at all. So no net profit, no excess net profit, no excess net profit, no resident participation. This single provision makes it highly unlikely that residents will ever participate in the project's upside. The agreement also allows the developer to expense against net profit 100% of total project costs over the life of the agreement. So in practice, residents are paying for both the lost income associated with the affordable housing units, which we're doing via the pilot tax break, and the

entire project itself. This is expensed before net profit is even calculated. So we're effectively paying for it out of what would have otherwise been our cut.

Notably, if the developer refinances and pulls most, if not all of his cash out of the property, the agreement allows them to continue expensing total project costs. I'll also note that institutional equity financing is undefined in the proposed agreement and accordingly is open to interpretation. On top of these provisions that make residents participation conditional at best, residents are explicitly excluded from the two biggest windfalls that the developer will experience. Those being cash out refi and property sale. When the project achieves stabilization, the developer will likely refinance the construction loan into a permanent mortgage. Because stabilized value is typically in excess of project costs, the developer could be able to pull most if not all of his initial investment out and residents would not only get none of these proceeds, but we'd be on the hook for continuing to expense total project costs. We're also explicitly excluded from any proceeds on the sale of either condos or the entire project. Um there are a number of other nuance deal points um that I don't have time to cover here in 3 minutes, but I've included them all to you in an email. Um I just want to highlight that these are policy choices. A yes vote on this agreement is currently drafted as a willful decision to exclude residents from participating in the success of a project that we help make possible. This isn't a an anti-development position. I urge you to revisit these terms to come to a more balanced approach, and the community is happy to help you do that. Um there's been a lot said of um housing affordability, but it really comes down to simple math. You can't reduce the average cost of living when you're adding four luxury units for every one so-called affordable unit. you're only exacerbating the affordability crisis. We only build luxury because our policies only promote luxury. We need policy that encourages private capital to build lower cost units if we really care about affordability. It's not about building more units. It's about building more lowerc cost units.

Thank you. Thank you. Next guest, please.

Ariel XT, uh, First W. Um, first I just want to say that I think Lacawana Plaza is the most exciting project um that is happening now and that has happened in years and that I truly hope that it gets built. Uh that said, I have many many questions about um the plan which I'm not going to get into, but specifically the pilot and the previous speaker, Rody Moore. Um I I just want to emphasize some of the things as and ask questions around what he has brought up and what he didn't say is he has uh 15 years of experience as a banker specializing primarily in commercial real estate and who has managed multi-billion dollar commercial real estate loan portfolios as both a credit approver and clientf facing lender. And I say that because this project has been plagued by lack of expertise across the board. Um in the um the the fact that uh the developer has not developed a project uh anything like this before and that the previous council had not anyone on the council who had any experience uh with a multi-use project like this. So, is it true that the developer can pay investors as a project cost while reporting little or no net profit, making it difficult for residents to participate in any upside because we were told that we are partners in this project? Is it true that the developer can refinance, pull out cash equal to or exceeding its entire equity investment and give it to investors, leaving residents with nothing? Is it true that whether the developer

sells parts of the entire project or the entitly excluded from participating in any gains? Is it true that despite having invested only 35% in the project, the developer uh that the agreement allows the developer to expense a portion of the total project cost annually, shifting the risk to the township? Is it true that we are excluded from sales proceeds and refinance proceeds? And are we expense for the total project cost and all cash flow after interest and tax can get distributed to investors? So in what scenario is there ever anything left for residents to participate in? I'll just say in my last moments that we are facing major budget crisis across the board and we need the answers to those questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Good evening. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Scott Kennedy. Uh I own property 423 Bloomfield Avenue properties. Um

thank you guys for doing everything you've done to get to the word. The main word here I see is agreement. And you guys have worked really hard and your staffs on both sides of the aisle, on both sides of the project have worked really hard to get to this point. And you've come up with an agreement. And I've watched that parking lot sit there for 30 years. And I'm happy that finally we're getting to the point where we might see some movement on there. Um, and thank you guys, the community that I live in. Thank you. You're here. You're important. So that's it. Thanks.

Thank you so much. Okay. Um at this point in time, um without objection, I'm going to move to close the public comment of the meeting and I'm going to move um the public hearing and I'm going to move to uh council members. If council members have um questions, then please feel free um and we can begin wherever. Let me second the motion so we can Thank you.

Madame Clerk, Deputy Mayor Anderson, yes. Councelor Birmingham, yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller. Councelor Williams. This is to close the hearing. This is the um public comment. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Thank you. So um yeah, council members.

You want to go? I'm gonna um I'm gonna ask our deputy mayor. would you like to begin um some questions for Mr. Hanley and our other

Sure. So just uh you know we do have our professionals that um you know worked on this with us um and provided information. Um and first of all I want to say appreciate all the questions and the the comments that we've received um that I personally received by email in person uh you know during public comment and during the public hearing. Um just to sort of uh start off, I was wondering if you might be able to um Mr. Hanley sort of explain um one of the one of the questions has to do with whether or not we can share and let's sort of that we're partner that there were equity partners. Can you please verif like clarify what the relationship is um if in the event that we do any agreement? The township's role in this project makes them a partner in the revenue stream not in and that's the annual gross revenue that's produced by the project each year that the developer will have to provide an audit and that audit will say exactly what the revenue was and the township will receive their share of that revenue your your share of that revenue that is the limit of the obligation. You're not investing in it. You're not writing checks to participate in the project. You are changing the way you're paid. And the way that you are paid is a percentage of the revenue that's generated on the project.

So, thank you. You, you know, you have either upside or downside depending on the way it performs.

Thank you, Councelor Birmingham. Oh um um yeah thank you. So can you go through a little bit of um just the difference between development and when you are sort of at the beginning of a project and investing hundreds of millions of dollars versus when you're buying mature assets and how that differs in what you are expected to return. Um it like we're hearing, you know, that something was sold at X, you know, amount. And when you have a uh asset that is returning guaranteed income, like you have it, you know, for example, the um and let's just use the Seymour property since that's been discussed. you know, you that project I think began in 2016 or something like or 2017. So, you're taking construction loans that are high generally higher interest. You're taking them well before you are actually going to ever see any income, right, from a project.

Correct.

So, you're you're you're sinking tens and I think in this case it was tens of millions of dollars. That's I think it was about an $88 million project. And so you're you're sinking that money in well before you're going to see return on that investment. And then so you do you if you finish it in 2021 and then you sell it a year later for you sunk 88 million and then you sell it a year later for 98 million. that you s you spent the 88 million 7 years ago or something that to me as an investor again and this is where it doesn't seem like a tremendous return on investment and again not not to be like too specific but I think just this idea that like you are taking a lot of risk and I I want to get a little bit more into the idea of a supermarket in a minute but just the the way that we're the way that we think about this. How like can you can you just give us like a framework in terms of what investors are thinking and and how feas and how they assess how if a product a project is feasible and and their again return on investment and what they're going to expect.

Sure. So in the current marketplace in order to get finance what you typically see is hot greater. Excuse me. Is everybody able to hear in the back cuz Oh yes, no. No. Can you just try a little bit?

Minimum underwriting criteria currently is in the high 6% yield range. like 6.75 to 7% is what a lender is looking for in order to lend to a project. So, and that is that takes the projected revenue stream and divides it by the project costs. Um, equity investors want a rate of return that is between 10 and 20% in order to invest the equity because otherwise you could invest in something that is as little or no risk, an existing project with cash flow or a treasury or some other alternative investment that doesn't require you to spend years getting approvals, taking risk on construction, construction costs, taking risk and operational costs, etc. So like investments of this type require a return profile that looks like I'm describing and is justifies support when it can't get it under conventional taxes if you want the development to move forward. Now, developers can still do very well, and you don't actually want projects to not be successful in your town. I don't know the exact details of every project that was built in the past, but a significant amount of success or failure has a lot to do with market risk. You saw during a period of time where interest rates were held very low for a long period of time and revenues went up significantly. Those projects did very well and they

were they outperformed an expectation that might have happened at the time the project was built. But no one knew that those conditions were going to happen. At the same time, in more recent years, lots of developers have had no return on their equity or had to get out of deals because projects underwritten with four or 5% interest rates as an expectation saw seven or 8% interest rates when permanent financing was required. And when you only have a five or 6% yield on cost and your costs dramatically increase your annual cost of carry, that means you lose. So there are developers that have wild success and there are developers that don't. And in many cases, it doesn't have much to do with them. It has to do with the way the marketplace changes. I mean, we've all experienced what's happened with costs and we we know it when we go to the supermarket, when we go to the gas station, etc., right? And you those things are happening in development as well, whether it's cost of materials, interest rates, um you know, the whole supply chain was disrupted. And so those are all risks on $100 million, $200 million, in this case a $30 plus million investment that can turn out very well or not. And it's unknown. And it's why the legislature built a law that allows you to take projects that haven't been successful and sites that haven't been successful in the past and create an incentive that allow them

to move forward so you can meet your policy goals. And you know the township has lots of policy goals that you know the planning team and most of you know the supermarket was important. Getting the historical nature of the building and the site invested in in a way that was valuable. Getting affordable housing units. I mean the net value of an affordable housing unit is probably half of what it costs to build. So you need a multiple number of market units to justify the investment in one affordable housing unit. All of those things create economics that either justify your assistant or don't. I think you know we've talked many times and I believe that this project absolutely needs the assistance that's being offered. Um, and you know, kind of going bring this all around, the idea that the millions of dollars that are in your budget now from pilots are somehow a punishment to the town doesn't recognize the fact that those pro those sites were producing far less and may or may not have been developed without this the assistance that's provided. probably they would not have been developed or they would have been developed differently. So the taxpayer is receiving millions of dollars into the budget that don't have to be raised in conventional taxes from them. It is and you know you would want to go forward with this if you want to to generate that those additional dollars.

Go ahead.

Thank you councelor Damato. Yeah, I just wanted to So, there are kind of two different ways you can do something unwise or dumb, I think, in in the way we do it. One is to do uh something that's not great that everybody else does, but it's at least standard. And then there's something that you do that's dumb that you're doing it all on your own, which seems even dumber to me. So really what I want to nail down is like is there anything that we are doing in this agreement that is unusual and specifically by not you know uh somebody had a couple of people had mentioned this idea that we're we're being left out of upside participation on like the exit on somebody cashing out. How common is it for a municipality to have in a in a pilot or or in an agreement with a developer some bonus that they're going to get as like essentially equity participation. Now we we are looking at upside if the thing does well in terms of the revenue we get more revenue. I understand that. That makes sense. Everybody should understand that the gross sales go up of the thing we make more money. the sales go down at the supermarket and the rents we make less money. But is it a normal or do you know of cases where a municipality will get actually even more money if they sell it and we'll get a piece of that action and B I know in inside of this thing is an excess profits mechanism and so the second similar question would be how how uh normal are those mechanisms and how often are they triggered so that an excess profit stream from that comes to the municipality.

I would say they're exceedingly rare. The excess profit limitation is to pre prevent like massive overperformance. Okay. And it's defined in the statute. It is. Yes. And so the way we are doing it is pretty normal. It's absolutely normal. And then the first question is is it normal or how how rare if you want to put an adjective on the rarity of of a of a deal in which the municipality you know if they sold the building for x amount that we would get a special check for that.

I it extremely rare. I don't I can't say for sure I've ever seen it in a project where the municipality was not actually like the owner of the land or contributing cash dollars into the project in a project that is simply receiving a financial agreement. I can't say that it's never happened, but I would say it's exceedingly rare if it has happened.

Okay? because that's for me very important that we're not doing something unusual that may be lousy. It's just what we are doing is quite normal except that the requests in the in the in the development agree development agreement are pretty ownorous on the other side that we are asking for a lot of things that are that's unusual. the I mean that's that's what's not so unusual is that and this is why the redevelopment law exists. So you can get the type and quality development that you are looking for but when it comes with a cost or requires cleanup or has other challenges or you're in an area that can't produce sufficient revenue etc. like all of those things create a cumulative e economic picture that either has need or doesn't.

Thank you, Councelor Harrison. Okay. Just and then I have a couple questions for Mr. Ragna, but while you're there, um, so there's been discussion tonight about concern about net profit and ways that can be minimized, but is the revenue the township receives based on the pilot based on net profit or gross profit? Uh, gross revenue? Gross revenue. Yes, it is unconcerned with profit. the if a dollar comes in you know depending on the year you get 10% 11% 12% of that dollar

no matter what that is what's required and that's the way the agreement the agreement is clear okay and the statute's clear yes it and the definition we have in the re the financial agreement is identical to the definition in the statute is that correct yes

okay and then Mr. Mr. Ragnaro to do a couple things and then one will have to wait until Mr. Scott returns. Um the transfer provisions in terms of um to follow up on what um councelor Damato was asking, does the statute allow for the township to share in the proceeds from any sale of all or some of the

No. No, it does not. But it provides that on the trans on a transfer uh which has to come to you for consent uh you're entitled to a fee of up to 2% of the annual service charge the pilot payment. There's no provision for sharing in the in the gain on a sale. And is part of our discussions did we explore the possibility of any workaround on that statutory provision? And was it your conclusion that the the only revenue we can get is the 2% of the annual service charge if there's a transfer? That's that's the only provision in the statute which addresses it and it addresses it uh plainly.

Okay. And there were also questions raised by members of the public concerning what is this urban renewal entity that we're entering into the agreement with. Can you describe why the statute what the statute requires in terms of the entity that enters into the financial agreement and then we also had discussion about uh what you determined as to the current membership of the urban renewal in

certainly so the long-term tax exemption law which is the enabling statute requires that in order to apply for and have a project which benefits from a pilot you must form term an urban renewal entity. Uh every urban renewal entity has the phrase urban renewal in it. That's how we know what it is. But it's a singlepurpose entity uh uh which is limited to the project uh which is being proposed and whose uh profits are limited by law. That's the uh net profit um limitation that was discussed previously by Mr. Hanley. Uh in this case the redeveloper uh was the um uh was not the urban renewal entity. He was Mr. Placeik's original uh applicant as redeveloper. He that entity was approved but then because of the application for the pilot. Uh he formed an affiliate as the statute requires which is the urban renewal entity which is the applicant for the pilot and which would get the financial agreement. uh we looked into in response to questions about the makeup of that urban renewal entity. Uh it's a single member LLC and that sole member is David Placeic.

So the only person involved in the UR at this point is Mr. Place. That's right. 100% interest in the urban renewal entity. Okay. And then uh Mr. Scott has raised at a couple of meetings uh possibility of having the developer agree to being subject to the rent control um ordinance. Well, first first let me ask you is there a statute that for all new development exempts the development from um rent control ordinances for a period of up to 30 years. Is that correct? And there is provided the proper paperwork is filed on time.

And and did we ask you to explore with Mr. Placeik as to whether he would be willing to forego that exemption? Yes, I had that conversation with his counsel. And what was the result of that? The result of that was that he would be unwilling to agree to such a term. And um Okay, I have nothing further. I'm sorry. May I follow up with Deputy Mayor Shin Anderson and then um Councelor Birmingham.

So with respect to the state statute that we were just talking about, are you aware of any other situation where an exemption has been, you know, part of a red, you know, a pilot agreement or redevelopment plan? I I am not I do I do a lot of this work. I have not come across that. Councelor Birmingham. Um, can I speak with Mike again? No.

Um, I want to go a little bit further into this um the the development. So, I think what a lot of concern that people have is that um by giving a pilot, these properties are not paying their fair share. Um, and so, and I know we've talked about this, and I will admit I'm I'm a pilot skeptic, and I was here, as someone said, I this is I believe pilot money should go to the schools. I will say that. Um, but in terms of right now in Monontlair, we have 13 pilots and I believe six of them are related to affordable housing, so I'm going to leave those out. Um we have seven that are either mixed use um commercial um residential um seven of them and those pay together five about $5 million in pilots. seven seven properties paying $5 million. All of the other commercial properties in Montlair and all the apartment buildings defined as five or more units. We have seven about 760 of those properties and altogether they pay $35 million in taxes. So this goes back to I'm going to say it again. We are residential. It is residents paying most of the taxes in this town. So you have 760 properties paying 35 million, five seven paying 5 million. So to me that is not disproportionate deal for the pilots from what from what I can tell specific to supermarkets because this is something we I just mentioned like you are requiring in

first phase a supermarket to be built and it's a large fairly large supermarket. it. We have three supermarkets in town and two of them in the past few years have h been reassessed and their value has been reassessed $2 million less on the improvement on the property. So, I want I'm bringing this up because about expectations because we've talked about when you're when we're going to see revenue from this project, when this would be. So, the the three supermarkets in our town currently, they sit on about 5 1/2 acres of land together, the three of them pay a little more than $500,000 in taxes. So, big big um supermarkets sitting on an acre and a half are paying about $150,000 in taxes. So the expectation just so we're clear for when we would potentially see revenue from this project when you're building. So they're going to take a lot of they're going to need hundreds probably over hund00 million to build a supermarket. It will not be we talked about this the other day. Supermarkets are are not um they don't generate a ton of revenue. This is just they're they're sort of they don't generate a ton of revenue. So even the gross revenue that we would expect when it we are in that phase just so everyone is clear we will not be expecting a lot of revenue when it is just the supermarket. Correct.

Correct. Okay. And that is in line Go ahead. And that is in line with what other supermarkets in town contribute to the town from what from what it looks like they're paying in taxes. No, no, no. But we have to be clear that you're not getting the revenue of the supermarket. You're getting the rent of the supermarket, right? Supermarkets have a lot of revenue. But but but yes, this is and this is another point another point that

we do not know what the rent will need to be set at to attract a supermarket to come into this um development at this point. We have an idea, but it's it's yes the but the whatever the rent that is ultimately paid is the municipality will get its share of that revenue. Right. Right. We would get that share as it will with all the other types of spaces that

Right. But just to be clear, like the Whole Foods is paying $138,000 in taxes. So, we should not expect that a supermarket in Lacawana Plaza would be paying all of the sudden a million dollar in taxes when it's just the supermarket phase. So the the money the revenue comes or where the is from market rate housing is that like my understanding for the

I mean the money comes from you know this is a truly mixeduse project. I mean which is what most municipalities desire. You have lots of square footage of retail, lots of square footage of office, lots of residential units, and they're all going to contribute to the revenue stream. And the developer intends to build as quickly as possible and deliver various pieces of the development in as short a time period as he can because it's it's in his interest to do so.

Okay. Um so all of the square footage is going to be contributing and the you know the revenue is all coming to the taxpayer regardless of the pocket it happens to be placed in you know the other than the 5% that requires to go to the county the pilot above the land tax is entirely entering the municipal budget which defers costs that would otherwise have to be borne by existing taxpayers. Okay. Um others

councelor Toller please. Oh sure. Thank you. Um earlier you mentioned which some you answered the question about Montlair um Lacawana urban renewal and the statute limits the profits of an urban renewal entity. I'm just curious how the gains can be allowed because it sounds like the law is designed to maximize one interest versus the other. Can you just explain that in detail? You said it was a statute limit.

The profit limitation is a calculation that is the percentage each year the redeveloper can only earn a certain percentage above the total project cost. So you multiply the 12% by the total project cost and that is the maximum amount that can be gained. If that were to be exceeded, the developer would have to write checks back to the municipality. Okay?

There's no reason to believe that that's going to happen. This is a protection that the law provides, but if it happens, it would be many years down the road. And I have seen it happen but it's in places that had you know basically geometric growth in the revenue stream where a project was built in one environment and got you know 10 or 15 years later the revenue stream had increased so much that they did in fact have to write checks. Um you know Jersey City is an example of place where that's happened. But I I the it's a protection. It is not the likely event. The if you know this shouldn't move forward because of the potential of sometime someday in the future receiving net profits. It should move forward because this revenue stream that will be created is valuable and the components of the development are valuable. But the decision to move forward or not should not rest on the possibility of someday getting net profits.

Thank you. Um and just for the record, because there were some questions brought up at the firehouse uh for the community meeting where the projections that you shared show a revenue stream in year one, but the project won't be done until year 9 or 10, which is odd, but perhaps you can highlight what year one where that revenue is going to come from and about how much do you think it will be? Uh yeah, I mean the proforma, you know, anticipates pilot starting around a half a million dollars, but understand year one is when something is completed. There is the redeveloper needs to get year one is not today. The redeveloper needs to get approvals, construct the project and so it is sometime in the future and the expectation around delivery is that it will probably take four to five years to deliver the cumulative product

and you also and I'm sorry I'll read my last question. No, go right ahead. Sure. Um at the firehouse there was discussions about the projected number of students that could possibly come out of this project and the numbers. Can you clarify or speak on to that because it seems from what your projections and the information that you shared that the revenues like you said it's going to be the project re will I guess generate about 2.5 for both new students in the BOE and the cost yeah I mean the pilot is expected to be over $2 million when the project stabilized.

Okay. So how did you get those numbers? I'm saying what what numbers did you believe the number of students would be in our schools from this particular project? Uh the range of students expected was between like 25 and 30. 25 and 30 and that's um about how much per child for that? Well, the cost of classroom instruction according to the board of education budget is about $11,000.

Okay. And I just wanted to say for the record because you said you didn't know of any other project or you weren't involved in the two South Willow. That project was very profitable and it has less affordable housing than what Lacawana has proposed. So I just wanted to clear that up because you mentioned it very early on in your speaking. You said you weren't aware. You said the affordable housing cost was half. Right. The I ask the question again for me. It wasn't a question. And I was just clearing something up cuz for the record you said that to South Willow the affordable housing costs were half and I'm saying that that project was very profitable for the developer.

That's all. Just putting that profitability in the future does not determine whether a good decision was made today because the marketplace has an huge impact on that and you h have to make the best decisions that are available today.

Okay. And the project may do much better than expected or it could do worse than expected. And that is, you know, based on outside economic interest there. There can be wars, pandemics, there can be an influx of capital that makes rents go up, costs can go down. Like there are an unlimited number of variables that can change the result. and to, you know, five or six years down the road look back and try to say it was good or bad based on the result is not fair to the decision-m process. You only have the data that's available today.

And if if any if anyone else has a question, that's fine. But I just wanted to ask you a question. Based on all the comments that you heard tonight, is there anything that you would like to share to address any of the residents comments that were made tonight? Um I mean there were many comments. I would I would take your lead as to what you think is important.

Thank you very much. I I appreciate that. At this point in time, I would like to um make a motion that uh because we have had such a robust discussion and I'd like to thank each and every one of you for coming here, for raising questions, for even um opening our eyes perhaps to some things that we hadn't um given thorough discussion or thought to before that we table um the vote on this until or we table further discussion on this until the 24th. 4 of March.

Mayor, just one uh housekeeping matter. Uh Mr. Hanley's analysis is encapsulated in a a report and memo uh dated March 13th. Um addressed to Steven Markx. Um this was distributed late last week. It's part of the record for your consideration in this matter. Okay. And just and but we will put that on the township website. It should be up tomorrow.

Yes. And one other thing if I might just to amplify Mr. Hanley's qu answer on excess profits. Uh councelor Toller the second part of your question was uh how do we factor in the gain on the sale of a project or a part of a project in the excess profit calculation and the statute expressly excludes the gain from the sale of a project. That's why it's not counted. Okay. Um, and so I made a motion to uh move table this until the 24th of March. No, we should do the vote.

Was there a second? No, Bill second. Um, Madame Clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Uh, abstain. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller, yes. Councelor Williams, no. Mayor Baskerville, yes. Motion carries.

Thank you. And and I I just like to suggest because I received and I I heard people that I really respect your opinions on talking about, you know, we need to just go ahead and vote and I I respect that. But another way that we could look at it is that we are listening to you. So if we invite you to come in and share questions and comments with us and then we just vote right away, it almost would seem then that we're not listening to you or paying attention. So I think sometimes when we do go back and give consideration to what you said, that's probably it could very well be a good thing and not necessarily a negative thing. So I guess it just depends on uh how you look at it, but but we certainly do appreciate all of your um input in the process. Can

Yes. Um, councelor Birmingham, I also just wanted to say about the existing pilots, I believe we are moving to put the audit reports which are due annually online as well for public view. Okay. The next um thing on our agenda is new business ordinance. I'm going to pull it. Yeah. Thank you. And so the new business ordinance that is listed in ordinance of the township of Montlair County of Essex, New Jersey, rescending ordinance 07-43. I'd like to make a motion, please, that we pull this until April 7th. Do I have a second? Yes, I'll second it. Madam,

Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. I'm sorry. This is a motion to table ordinance. Item B until April 7th. Right. It's from Jan. So item B, counselor. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. April's the 7th. Yes. Okay. Damato. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison. Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville.

Yes. Thank you. Okay. Okay. And so now this portion is um a portion that I know many of you have been waiting patiently for and we appreciate that. This portion of our meeting is called public comment and we hope that you've signed up at the table for this. When you come forward, please give us your name first and last is a preference and then you will have three minutes to um share with us. So we can start with um our guest number one, Noah Gail. Thank you.

Of course. Anytime. Mayor Dr. Renee Baskerville Township Council. My name is Noah Gail. I spoke earlier tonight about Lacawana. Um I so um again I definitely think you should vote yes on Lawana tonight because and plus Lacawana has been sitting empty for nearly a dec for over since November 7th, 2015. Over a decade when um Pathmark closed. And um I don't remember another when J plays used it as like some thing last summer and um during the holidays. I don't remember anyone ever being in there. So um so I think something definitely needs to go in there. Thank you. Also um I'll be quick, don't worry. I spoke earlier about bringing First Night back for New Year's Eve. I suggest you bring First Night back for New Year's Eve. I spoke many times about about bringing it to attention again at the council meetings. A familyfriendly, kid-friendly event. When I was a kid growing up for the first 10 years of of my life, first night was a thing and everyone had fun. And I feel like we do recognize all holidays except for New Year's Eve. So, we should definitely if don't bring for if you if you decide not to bring first night back, we should definitely do a town New Year's Eve celebration somehow. Also, um, tonight I I know many people are speaking on behalf of ICE, so I wanted to bring that to attention as well.

Thank you. Um, what I was going to say is the immigrant trust act. I hope you signed it. I wasn't at the last few council meetings, but I hope you signed it. It is very important. We are we have been going we have been through we have been going through frightening times. These are not normal times we're living in and I say all are welcome in Monontlair. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest please.

Good evening again. I'll try to be quick and I really appreciate you guys taking the time on Lacawana because all of us that do miss Pathmark and all that it was one day. Um we do hope to see a smart development there that is fair to all residents in Montlair. Um, I came tonight um and I will be speaking at the board of ed. Maybe my husband will come tomorrow. His vote um and people might think it's not worth speaking about here, but I think it's important for the town to know that my husband's vote was rejected in the special election. Now, he voted the exact same way as my son and I did. We we got our at-home ballots and we put it here at 205. All the same way, all three of us. my son and I on one day and my husband on a different day, but I was with him and I made sure it was sealed exactly the way it was. Today I find out his vote was rejected and it can't be cured. They said his vote was found outside the envelope. Now, this to me is very concerning. Every voice should be heard through a vote and I wasn't getting answers back from Essex County today. They said they will have someone call me back. And then the same guy called me back and said he needs to put it in an email. That was at 2:00. We received no call back. No email. Now he he his what what is very concerning about it is I heard it's a fatal flaw if the ballot is outside. I personally saw it sealed. So, um, the the person I spoke to on the phone said it was received on March 2nd

and rejected on March 12th, 2 days after the vote. So, this is very concerning. And I came to you today honestly just to alert the public that they should check their votes. There's a website online if you go to Essex County Board of Elections to check your vote. Um, the reason I couldn't check mine online, it kept coming up and saying, "Voter not know recognized. Please call." And that's because I wasn't using my middle initial. And the only reason I called it was because I wanted to check on my own. And then he gave me my son's vote. And I said, "No, I'm looking for mine." He said, "Well, yours and your sons was received." And um and I said, "Well, while you're there, can you look at my husband's?" And he said, "Yes, it was it was rejected." And that's when I was found out it was received on the 2nd, rejected on the 12th. And right here, I have another vote by mail for our next election. It says right on the vote. If it's rejected for any reason, you'll get a call or a notice. We We got nothing. So, I just want everybody to be aware and hopefully they can figure it out.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Uh, good evening. My name is Maria Vadrigo. I'm a resident of Montlair. Tonight, I want to read a letter written by uh a 9-year-old child who has been uh held in detention at the Dilly Detention Center in Texas for nine months. In this letter, the child asks uh for one simple thing, his freedom. Uh um my name is, and it's redacted. Um I'm 9 years old. We have been here for 9 months. I really miss playing with my toys on my watch. When When will we get out of here? I want to go back home. All my friends left. I miss all of them. Why can't we be released like them? I really want to be released. Every day we see people leave, but us, no. I want to get out and eat pizza and bananas. I really want to go to school. I miss my friends from school so much. I really miss my sister. I really may miss my mom's food. Please get us out of here. I hear I hate core civic. This is not happening somewhere far away. This is happening right now in the United States and it should never be happening at all. Under federal standards, children should not be held in immigration detention for more than 20 days. Yet children are being held for months. They are living behind fences, separated from normal childhood and enduring harmful and traumatic um conditions. Where are the politicians demanding their freedom? Just this past week, I saw a video from Ver Vermont where ordinary people form a human chain to stop masked Asians from entering a home. Think about that for a moment. When communities feel they must physically

stand between their neighbors and the go and government agents. It shows how abandoned people feel by those who are supposed to protect them. People should not have to defend themselves alone. I understand the limits of the local of local government. I know this council cannot release those children from detention. I know you cannot stop federal immigration rates, but there are things that you can do. You can ensure that Monontlair Police Department does not collaborate with I collaborate with ICE. You can refuse to sign agreements or contracts with this federal agency. You can require that ICE present ice present a judicial warrant before uh making arrests in our community. These are real steps. These are meaningful protections and they are within your power. Tonight you have the opportunity to show what Monontlair stands for. You can pass the Monontlair Trust Act as an ordinance, not just a resolution, a real enforcable law that protects our neighbors and and affirms our community's values. So I ask you directly, will you do it?

Thank you. Next guest, please. Uh, good evening. I'm Soul Demifac. I'm a senior at Monontlair High School. Good evening.

So, as I'm sure you're aware, in June of 2017, Newark became Sanctuary City. Newark has been regarded for a long time as one of the pillars of New Jersey and was recognized by President Barack Obama himself as a pillar of diversity in the United States of America. My question is simple. Why can we not follow that same precedent? We've taken steps. We've supported the Immigrant Trust Act through resolution and for that action I am extremely grateful. We have made efforts to make Montlair a welcoming town, which has happened so far. But there's one more step that's missing, and that's becoming a sanctuary city. This is an absolute. We need this to happen immediately. A welcoming town is nice, but ultimately excuses are lies wrapped in reason, and we are making excuses for not becoming a sanctuary city. We're already on a list released by the Department of Justice

of cities targeted by President Trump as sanctuary jurisdictions. So why can't we take this title with pride? Why can't we just accept that this is who we are? This is our identity as Montlair in New Jersey of the United States of America, a country found on immigrants to begin with. There's no reason for us to be holding out on this any longer because we have the absolute ability and power to make this change immediately. I urge for two things. One, that we became that we become a sanctuary city as soon as possible. And secondly, that the Montlair Trust Act, for the sake of keeping eyes of Montlair and other federal agents who will intend to impede on the rights of our citizens are kept out. Donald Trump's agency, as I'm sure we're all aware, has already violated the law. It has violated the United Nations protocol using expedited removal to take anybody out of the United States within two years of coming here without a fair trial, without due process, violating the 14th Amendment as well. This is simply unacceptable. And if we're afraid of retaliation because of taking action to pro to protect our citizens in our town, then let them come. Frankly, we're fighting for what's right. And when the history books say who was on the right side of history and the wrong side of history, I want Mlair to be on that right side. Let's not just be, you know, lies wrapped in reason. Let's have words wrapped in action. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Hi, my name is My name is Greg Pac, 97 Pine Street. Uh, and I'm here to support uh what's being called a Montlair Trust Act ordinance to show opposition to ICE and to support our migrant and immigrant community communities. I'm part of an ad hoc group of people calling ourselves ICE out of Montlair, in a broader way, ice out of New Jersey. And I am so inspired by the students in this town. I mean, the walk out was inspiring, but just to talk to some of them and hear from them, it's they're speaking better than I am. Um, we need an ordinance, something uh on on the books with teeth. We need to come to to we need to as a community take a stand and tell ICE they cannot stage their secret police actions on our property. And we will not provide support for their violent, racist, racist, and xenophobic actions. So, please consider or I I'm I'm asking you to push put forward what's being called the Montlair Trust Act as an ordinance, not a resolution. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

My name is Dorothia Cook. Um, and I'm at nine Laurel Place. quote, "Kids have the audacity to walk out of the schools to spend their valuable t school time for some oarant social cause which will have no impact on anything but padding college applications." Now, some people in this room may have heard this before. This is a comment made by callous disregard on the article on from the Montlair local, Montlair High School students walk out to protest ICE. Now, absolutely this is the opinion of one maybe Montlair resident and not some display by the town. However, it does highlight the underlying belief that activism in Montlair cannot create true change because we are already so changed. This is not true. Movement and activism is not a show simply because it is surrounded by support and Montlair is not perfect just because it wants to be. Montlair is not a sanctuary city. Currently, as Soul pointed out, Newark is a sanctuary city. That means they are more aware of these issues and more willing to advertise and act than Montlair. If we want to be the lovely, progressive town we advertise to be, we cannot be one that stands for our neighbors and fellow Americans dying, disappearing, and suffering. Makeclair a sanctuary city now. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Good evening. I'm Kayn Kinsula. I'm from the fourth ward. Hi. I proudly stood with my fellow students who are on the audience in the anti-ICE walkout and we have received backlash saying that we're just privileged kids whining about something that we just want to skip class. You've obviously missed the point of what we did. As of February 7th, 2026, Immigration and Customs Enforcement held 68,289 people in detention with 50,259 or 73% having no criminal conviction at all. At least 32 people have died in the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement custody in 2025, making 2025 the deadliest year for ICE detaines in two decades. US government accountability office reports have found that ICE has failed to establish performance goals for the 287G program and did not have measures in place to system to systematically assess its effectiveness and therefore concluded that ICE would be unable to provide effective oversight over law enforcement agency partners since there is no standard to determine their compliance with the MOA. A report by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found that the first year of operating the 287G program in Meckllinburgg County, North Carolina cost a total of $5.3 million. I think everyone here is aware that we have deficits to pay off. We do not have the legroom to pay for that, nor should we be paying for that. ICE has caused immigrant communities to become fearful of local police, often avoiding them altogether, even to report crimes or seek help. In places like Alminance County, North Carolina, and Maricop County, Arizona, past 287g programs led to widespread allegations of civil rights violations, racial profiling, and lawsuits. A Department of Justice investigation found that sheriff's deputies in Maricopa County routinely

targeted Latinos for traffic stops and arrests based solely on race. Other sheriffs have spoken out on how these agreements divert limited and essential law enforcement resources away from core public safety priorities. The Supreme Court ruling through their ruling on Noam versus Vashquez Peridomo permitted the Trump administration to use race and ethnicity as one of a group of factors along with speaking Spanish or working in an immigrant-heavy profession such as landscaping or contracting to establish reasonable suspicion in conducting immigration enforcement through roving patrols. The most recent census of Monontlair shows that 10.6% of the population identifies as Hispanic or Latino. 14.1% identifies with two or more races and 13.4% identify as foreign born persons. Why must we dance with the possibility of instilling fear in our immigrant communities? This town and this council needs to stop this performative advocacy and do something. Make us a sanctuary city now. Next guest, please. Good evening members of Oh, good evening members of the council and Mayor Baskerville. I am Cassia Lang Robertson and I live in the third ward. Like many of my peers, I'm here to talk about Montlair becoming a sanctuary city. We all know the danger that ICE presents to our community, detaining people for the crime of having black or brown skin, for the crime of having an accent, for the crime of speaking a language other than English. We already know that ISIS has targeted and racially profiled many Americans, citizens and non-citizens alike, even young children are not spared. We know that ISIS is illegally imprisoning people in horrific detention centers for months at a time with rotting worminfested food, non-existent medical care, rampant abuse, and sadistic guards that take pleasure watching detain suffer.

These are not just far away news stories from Minneapolis or California. This is happening less than 10 miles away in Newark. John Wilson Brutus died recently due to the awful conditions in Delaney Hall. This is also happening in West Orange where ICS is raided and taken people. Many are even saying it's beginning to happen here. ICE is planning to build another facility in Roxbury, a town only 40 minutes away from here with high quotas from for arrest and now the possibility of two different ICE facilities within a 25 mile radius of this very building. Do you really think this community is safe from ICE? Because what we have seen in other towns can happen here in Montlair. And when it does, we need to assert that we will protect our community. We need to take a stand against ICE. We need to become a sanctuary city. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Thank you.

Uh oh, sorry. Just get my speech pulled up here. All right. Uh good evening everybody. Uh members of the council, Mayor Baskerville, thank you for your time. As you all know and as you have just heard here, many students at Monontlair High School recently walked out in protest of the actions of Immigration and Customs Enforcement under the administration of President Trump. To me, and I hope to you all, it is quite significant that we are seeing this protest at this time. And I certainly believe that now is a time to be paying attention to what we are all saying. In the last year or so, we have all been witness to a number of disturbing actions across our country. We have seen masked federal agents roaming the streets of American cities from the Atlantic to the Pacific. We have seen many individuals deprived of their rights to due process, a right that is guaranteed under our Constitution. They have deported individuals to foreign countries on little more than a suspicion of gang activity. And just earlier this year even, we have seen a surge of immigration agents terrorizing the city of Minneapolis, opening fire on American citizens, executing improper searches and arrests, tearing people out of cars, and hassling protesters who are merely standing up for their community. The reason that I mention all of this is because I intend to demonstrate that we have seen the damage that this agency under its ongoing administration can do. People across the country, be they in red states or blue states, directly affected or just seeing things unfold on their phones or televisions, are scared. And naturally, that includes many in our own community. That is why we must be concerned because even if these events are not occurring right here, right now, that fear is still present and the events around our

country mark the possibility of what may come. Now is our time to choose where we will stand, not only on the issue of immigration, but the issue of dignity and the issue of justice. Will this township stand to defend the truest principles of our country and defend those among us who are being targeted by injustice? Or will we stand idly by and for whatever reason refuse to take action? I do not stand before you today to advocate for a particular course of action. But what I do ask is that you consider the calls of my fellow students who have worked tirelessly to consider solutions for the issues that we see today. Um what I ask you to do is to make our community's stance on this issue known. To make it known that we as a community will not allow these ongoing injustices to transpire under our watch. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Hello members of the council. My name is Jules De Benadetto and I live in the third ward. As you may or may not know, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has been present in Monontlair a number of times recently. We know that they have taken at least six members of our community. This occurs because we are not a sanctuary city. Montlair identifies itself as a welcoming community which means and I quote a formal commit commitment to equal respectful and dignified treatment for all residents regardless of immigration status end quote. This term is used to avoid becoming a sanctuary city which for those who don't know is a quote policy that limits or defines the extent to which a local/state government will share information with federal immigration law officers end quote. As you also may or may not know, there was recently an anti-ICE walkout at the high school where a large group of high school students walked out of class at 9:15 a.m. and marched to this building and protested for over an hour. This event was organized by myself, Nola Kim, and Victoria Luna. All of which are present at this event along with MANY along with many individuals who were present at this protest who are also taking time out of their day to be present here and speak on this topic. There were hundreds of high school students present at this protest because they felt that ISIS's existence in Montlair was enough of an issue that they had to miss their classes to protest it. You as the town council and as civil servants have the responsibility to serve this community and make sure that it is safe for all members. This includes immigrants. By becoming a sanctuary city, it ensures the safety of the immigrants that live here. Especially since ICE has permission to racially profile the racially profile people following Gnome vers Vasquez Pedo, a court case closed

on September 8th, 2025. Monontlair needs to become a sanctuary city. We must protect those in our town from having their rights infringed upon. If we truly care about this town, why would we neglect those who are a part of it? If Montlair really were a welcoming community as we claim, we would be a sanctuary city. Thank you for your time. And please, as humans, consider the lives of our peers, of the mothers, the fathers, the sisters, the brothers, the daughters, the sons, the aunts, the uncles, and every single person who has been hurt by immigration and customs enforcement. This is not just the individual taken into custody. Those people have families. And I trust that you will remember them and keep them in mind when you speak and when you again as civil servants decide whether or not it is actually important to protect and love the people of Montlair. Again, thank you and have a good evening.

Thank you, Miss Steve Benadetto. Next guest, please. Good evening, council. Um, I'd like to start by saying that I'm so pleased to see so many of my fellow students here tonight. I hope that our show force means something to all of you. I'm a sophomore. I'm sorry. Would you please tell us your name?

Oh, my bad. I'm Victoria Luna. Um, I'm a sophomore at Monontlair High School and I'm a part of the Center for Social Justice as well. I wrote a letter through that um class as um earlier this year um and I like to share it again now. I've lived in this town since I was two years old in the same two-bedroom townhouse with my parents and my two sisters. Both my parents are immigrants and both are legal. My mother was born in the United States. Her family moved back to their home country, Greece, when she was a baby. At 18, she moved back to the US and made her life here. My father was born and raised in the Dominican Republic. In his late teens, he came to the United States and served in the Navy. My mother has birthright citizenship. My father is a veteran. My family and I have every right to live in this country and feel protected by our government. And although we are not leaving, we don't feel protected. Not when the Supreme Court decides that ICE agents can racially profile anyone during an immigration raid. This blight on our rights is a disgrace to the so-called melting pot that is this country. It's so easy for anyone to say that they're against ICE. It's easy for someone to talk about the horrors of these policies. What is not easy to do is to take action. And that is what's important. I urge you to take the first step, hopefully one of many, and pass as an ordinance the Monontlair Trust Act. This will protect many of the people in Monontlair who supposedly seem undocumented. Please keep us safe. Please do the right thing. Before I go, I'd like to pose a simple question to you all. If you're not passing this ordinance, what is your plan? I'd love to know, what are you doing to keep us safe? As I see it, if you don't pass the ordinance, even if you pass it as a resolution instead, you're not taking action. You're taking an easy way out. Silence is complacency, right?

You're excusing these corrupt actions and allowing injustice to take hold of our community. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." Yes. So, how do you want to be remembered? For making a change or for saying, "Yeah, that would be nice." Thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you. And and I appreciate your activism. I understand that you were one of the people that helped to organize the walk out. So, thank you.

Good evening. My name is Nola Kim. I'm a sophomore at Monler High School. Recently, I along with Jules De Benadetto and Victoria Aluna helped organize a student walk out. Around 400 students participated to speak out about immigration issues and the impact of ICE in our community. This number of students showed something very important. The students of Monontlair care deeply about fairness, safety, and what kind of town we live in. A lot of people said that we only did it because we got to skip class. This is not true. We gave our time, missed test classes, and got marked absent because we believe that our voice matters. And we are here again because we still believe that. So I have to ask, do you believe our voices matter? Will you listen to us or will our time and courage be ignored? Most people in Montlair believe this is a diverse, welcoming town. But this means nothing if not backed by action. This is why I'm asking all of you to consider adopting an ordance similar to the Hoboken Trust Act. One that will help ensure fairness, accountability, and protection for everyone who lives here. Policies policies like these aren't about just about politics. They're about people. They send a clear message that everyone, no matter who they are, deserves to feel safe and welcome to their home. This is something that can't wait. There is real fear in our communities right now. That fear comes from uncertainty, from wondering if they will be safe, if their teammates, neighbors, friends, and family will be safe. They are waiting to see if their town truly stands with its values. Every day that passes without action is another day that people feel unsafe in their own homes. That fear is real and it doesn't wait. We are asking you not only to consider this, but to move quickly and prioritize it and expedite its process so Monontlair proves it is a place where everyone can feel safe and welcome. As someone who is growing up Montlair, I don't want to live in a town that just claims it's inclusive, but a town that proves it. We've asked, we've already used our voices as students. Now, we're asking you, the leaders of our town, to act before fear dictates the reality of our community. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Next guest, please. Hi, good evening.

I'm Claire Barry. I'm a sophomore at Monontlair High. I'm sorry. Can you please repeat your name? Uh, Claire Barry. Thank you. I'm a sophomore at Montlair High. Um, I am not a person who spends a lot of time reading the news. I'm the type of person who finds out what's happening based on what I'm noticing around me. However, I wouldn't say I have a lack of knowledge about what's going on, especially when it comes to ICE and what they're doing. While I can't tell you the exact politics of what's going on, I can tell you how it's affecting me and others around me. Do you know what a friend is? The definition of friend is a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, trust, and intimacy. Intimacy. Does this sound like ICE to you? I doubt it. ICE is not our friend, nor do we want them to be. I have friends who have started to carry their passports around with them everywhere they go in case ICE shows up. We have marched and protested and spoken out against it, but we are not being heard. It is affecting our education, our lives, and our community relations. There was a walk out less than a week ago where my fellow students and I miss school in order to show our upset with ICE, and I'm sure many of us would do it again. So, please take action. Something I've seen a lot of people suggesting and I believe others will mention is making Montclair sanctuary a city. I am not an expert on this topic, but I suggest you listen to people advocating for this as they will be able to give a much more compelling argument than myself. I know I'm last in the list of high school students or at least close to it. And I know whatever decision you will make will directly impact not only the homeowners and moneymakers of this town, but the students and educators and people who typically have no say. So, please listen to what we have said and what I'm sure will continue to be said and think about the future you are creating in the world you're sending us into. Thank you.

Thank you so very much. Next guest, please. Hi there. Hi there.

Um, my name is Rachel Fineberg. I'm a 10ear plus resident of Monontlair and I'm here to speak on a different topic than the students who spoke before me, but they offer a good segue to the topic I'm going to speak about. I really appreciate their passion, their concern, their humanity, their intelligence, and I am here to ask you, the council, to adopt a resolution to share pilot revenue with our school district, because I have a young daughter and I am concerned that by the time she gets to high school, she will not have the advantages that these kids had. And that shows. So please, please share that revenue. We cannot continue to underfund our schools. And this is something we can control. The state law that makes that problem sort of ongoing and insoluble, we cannot control. If you have a revenue source, please share it with the schools. Take care of our students. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Hi, I'm Caitlyn Bourke. Um, I'd like to ask you to allocate a portion of pilot funds to the schools. Um, the new superintendent is managing the district through this crisis. She has put so much time and effort into communicating with parents and the community. She made cuts in December and Renaissance is closing. If Q2 is a no, which it looks like it will be, the budget for 2627 will have many more cuts and she'll do it. But too many elective and language cuts means the teachers won't have planning periods. And then higher class sizes and support cuts means the kids who are struggling will get even less attention. And the district, like the town, is facing pressures that will continue. Growing healthc care costs are a big part of that and we'll have to cut and cut and cut. The use of pilots should be rare and they should also at a minimum cover the municipal costs and the school district costs the development will create. We need you to be responsible with granting pilots and we need you to share pilot funds with the school district. With higher taxes, Montlair becomes even less affordable. With continuous cuts to the schools, parents will not come here. I can't tell you the number of parents who have said it might have been a mistake to move here and raise their kids here. Parents of different ages, incomes, and races. Parents who are new to the town, and parents who grew up here themselves. They didn't expect a private school education for their kids, but they did expect a good one, something like these kids have had. Many parents still have hope. Please work with our schools. I also wanted to mention and I was asked to mention um that we should have virtual comments. Um at this time, parents with school age kids are helping them with homework, having dinner, doing bedtimes. It's a burden to be here. We have the technology and if we want to

encourage participation, which I think we do, I think it would really help. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Hi, I'm my name is Lindsay Pvette and I'm going to share what Alana Kaufman was going to share, but she had to leave to do the things that Caitlyn was just describing as a parent. Um, so these are these are Alana's comments. I am here to express my support for the pilot sharing resolution and to urge you to ensure that any pilots approved for the Lacawana Plaza development project are shared with our schools. First, pilot sharing ensures that property owners do not disproportionately shoulder the burden of funding our school district. The current resolution, which links pilot sharing to the number of students residing in pilot properties, rightly ensures that developments fairly support the very public education system that is likely attracting residents to these developments. Second, for new developments like Lacawana, pilot sharing does not shift existing money out of the municipal budget. It simply allocates new revenue between the town and the schools. It does not detract from other municipal needs. It prioritizes all of our town's needs, including our schools. Third, and most importantly, our schools really need this money. Even a small amount of pilot funding will make a difference. The 2026 2027 school budget is going to slash teachers, programming, and a school that make our district special. The smallest amount of additional funding can mean keeping teachers, clubs, electives, field trips, which I can't tell you my six-year-old is in tears about losing, curriculum support, and other items that support our kids inside and outside the classroom. It's no secret that the school budget crisis has caused divisions in our town. And if there are two things that people agree on, it's that one, we all care about our schools. And two, raising taxes sucks. Pilot sharing is a sustainable win-win. It supports our schools and it is more equitable to property owners, not less. I'll end by saying that I hope this resolution is just the start of our town's commitment to pilot sharing. I look forward to the day when this council passes a resolution to share pilots from all developments that pay them, not just residential ones. Until then, let's take the first step in the right direction, make pilot sharing a

priority, and pass the resolution. Thank you. Thank you. Next guest, please.

Good evening. Excuse me, everybody. Um, I had something written. Um, a friend of mine, um, um, her children had wanted to be here. Her her teenagers had wanted to be here tonight. And I really wanted to thank all of the incredible students who have been spo speaking out and who took the step to protest um and walk out the other day. Um that's not what I was going to say, but um that they're just absolutely amazing. So, these two particular individuals who I was expecting tonight um did not come because in about a year and a few months they're going to be up for their citizenship hearing and they were very wary about being seen on camera and um you know, who knows what DHS is going to subpoena in terms of our public records. As somebody said, we're on the radar. Um so, they're not here tonight. And in support of what I was going to say, my friend wrote to me and if I have time, I'd like to say what I had written. But um she said, "Oh, it's true. We are always afraid. This is an immigrant friend. We we are always afraid of what will our country, our president say of what we're doing." I clarified with her and she said, "Mean here. Um if it's normal for everyone else, for us it means that's not entirely correct. We have to always walk on high heels, you know, thin thin ice. Um, for immigrants and refugees, the horror of our times and the threats to our human rights and civil liberties are multiplied. Many have escaped deprivation and oppression. But it's a century old American tradition to extract, separate, incarcerate, and obliterate. And that's what we're This is really nothing new. It's just coming back to us um in a in a

different different form. This has been the history of our country. Um council meetings on the public record. Well, I kind of addressed that by what my friend was going through tonight. Um well-meaning words need the power of enforcement. Um I am here indeed to support the Monontlair Trust Act. We really do need I don't know what the phrase was used before about wrapping words something wrapping around words. I'd like to watch that again and hear it. But it's so true. Um we need to go down in history standing up for the will of the people for doing what's moral and right. This should be our promise and responsibility. No more and no less. No one is safe until we're all safe. Thank you so much council for I know there have been or I have heard there have been a lot of discussions and debate and um consideration um regarding this topic and regarding whether it should be p voted on as a resolution or as an ordinance um I feel that we need very strongly the power of law. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest please. Good evening, Mayor Baskville and council members. Good evening.

My name is Jeffrey Robert Grayson. Last week, I witnessed the March 9th planning board meeting regarding the application for 260 Park Street in the second ward. The applicant had made revisions to his initial proposal and of a shared commercial residential space that included included a spe shop that would now become a bagel shop. The seating in the shop was reduced from 17 to 10 and minimum parking requirements were met. Therefore, no variances would be needed for approval. Several residents from the neighborhood spoke out in opposition to the project, citing traffic and safety concerns as well as the building being out of character with the rest of the neighborhood. Board members empathized with the residents but felt that their hands were tied by existing zoning zoning ordinances. Therefore, approval was imminent. The applicant, his attorney, Mr. Trembleac and town planner Miss Tally felt that this was a done deal. That is until board members Anthony and Yualli and Mayor Baskville questioned whether or not the area was zoned properly. This started a vigorous debate between Miss Tally, Mr. Tremulac, the planning board attorney, Mr. Inuali, and Mayor Baskville. When the vote was taken to the surprise of many, the board the board voted to deny the application. Miss Tally looked stunned. Mr. Tremulac looked angry. The applicant was so upset that he suggested that his shared heritage with Mr. Inuali should have made a difference. One thing that strikes me as peculiar is that Mr. Tremulac has previously served as the Monontlair Township attorney, the attorney for the planning board. He has given legal advice to the township on

municipal land use and also advised the zoning board. Now he is the go-to attorney for developers seeking approval from those very same boards. The developer meets with Miss Tally. Miss Tally introduces the developer to Mr. Tremulac. Mr. Tremulac takes the developer before the very boards whose ordinances he helped create. If that's not a conflict, it's certainly a is is a convenience. Only in this case, Mr. Mr. Inuali and Mayor Baskville flipped the script. I couldn't help but compare the 260 Park Street denial with the application that came before the planning board several months ago regarding 10 Hartley Street. Same developer, same attorney, same town planner, same planning board member saying their hands were tied by the existing zoning ordinances. Who is it that is putting the board in bondage? Residents came out to speak again speak out against the project saying that it was out of I'll be finished in a second. It was out of character with the m with the neighborhood. Despite the similarities between 260 Par Street and 10 Hartley Street, the Hartley Street application in the fourth ward was approved. I wonder what made the difference. I truly believe that Monontlair is in need of a new vision, a new attitude. We are Monontlair, New Jersey, not Brooklyn West. We need a new master plan and a new town planner. Janice Tally, the time

Janice Tally, the time has come for you to move on to another town that wants to be overdeveloped, gentrified, and have its soul ripped out. Monontlair, it's time to break the strangle hold that Janice Tally and Alan Tremulac have on Monontlair's developmental future. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Hi, Claire Solata, 279 Park Street.

God, I wouldn't want your jobs, this job. Um, one of the things that I wanted to talk about is an overall thing. There are a lot of things that have happened in the last year that were mistakes that came out of this building. We've got the the board of ed. We've got the big one, the board of ed. Then we have zoning issues. And as he just said, we were told their hands were tied. Well, who's tying your hands? You know, what does that mean? The deer cult, which took a long time to come to the conclusion that we shouldn't kill deer. The sidewalk issue, no apology, nothing. The people in this town are beyond angry. I really believe that the board of ed vote wasn't just based on the board of ed. It was based on all of these issues that I'm talking about. The snow removal. People say, "Why do you have to we we pay money to plant the trees? You're going to put the snow with salt in it on trees?" Why why would you do that? Can't you put it somewhere else? But I understand now having gone to lots of these meetings how there is no real coordination. I I feel for all of you because you are presented with all of these things expected to become expert on it and make decisions on it in our favor. I do think that that is possible. I think if you have a decent town manager and I want to agree that our planning department only seems to work for the developers that has become incredibly apparent to me,

incredibly apparent to me. And that needs to change and hopefully you have the authority to change that because that is not okay. So whatever you can do, I present this to you because from the kids talking, which were wonderful, you hear it all, but also there's a demand on you to respond to all of it. And I don't know how to do get you to do that effectively because every one of these issues requires a lot of talk, a lot of discussion. Oh my god, Lacawana Plaza, you could talk about that for a year. So I I wish that I had the magic answer to this, but I do want to say to you that the temperature in the town is very very hot right now. People are really, really disgusted, angry, upset. And I believe that if there were words from all of you saying we recognize this because none of this has been recognized, not one apology, not one mayulpa, nada. Please think about it. Thank you. Facts matter. Facts matter.

Good evening. Matilda Carvajal, fourth ward resident, last 20 years. I'm here simply to show my support for the Monontlair Trust Act to be passed as an ordinance. I am the co-chair of the Civil Rights Commission. I'm a volunteer with the Navagadores program in Monontlair. I'm here as a Latina. I'm here as a human. I'm here to let you guys know that if you if you're afraid, that's fine. We're afraid, but we still want you to pass this. Okay? We're all afraid, but we still want you to do something. We still want you to do something for our community, for your community, and for everyone that's not here that looks like me, that looks like you, that has any other language that they learned before English. That's who I represent, and that's who I think you need to represent, too.

Next guest, please.

Um, hi. Um, name is Levi Seagull, Ward 2 senior at Monontlair High School. I would like to reiterate that I think it is crucial for this town to make decisions that do not artificially constrain housing supply as it directly worsens our affordable and environmental goals. I've heard that dense housing development will cause traffic issues. It has a lack of parking and it does not fit in with the character of the neighborhood. I believe that this opposition is root in a deep skepticism of change that we shouldn't build apartment buildings in our suburbs of of a suburb of predominantly single family homes. But I want to offer a different perspective. Higher neighborhood density does not make traffic worse. Traffic ultimately comes from house uh traffic does not ultimately come from housing. It comes from car dependence and higher housing density, especially near public transit, reduces that dependence as residents don't need to own a car to access all essential services. This relieves residents not only of a higher living expense, but it also benefits our environment when there's less cars on the road. Building more parking lots actually incentivizes more cars in the road, which is what actually increases traffic and that creates more CO2 emissions. And concerns over fitting into our own architectural standards and neighborhood character tend to overshadow concerns over affordability, which often prevents needed progress from being made. Our lack of action continues to worsen affordability and prevents future families the potential to live in Montlair. Projects like 260 Park Street and Lacawana are the correct direction. Our town should head in a more affordable and sustainable future. Any future opposition to those projects, I believe, threatens those goals. Our town should be just as accessible and welcoming to everyone, not just residents who already live here. Just because we may be starting to look more like Brooklyn, does not mean we should

ignore these goals. Thank you.

Next guest, please. Hi again, Lonnie Summer Padilla and resident of Montlair. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Um, today all day I've really been hoping that our schools and our township find a pot of gold or two because we definitely could use it. Um, in lie of that pot of gold, I am hoping we can do something with payments in lie of taxes. It is time to start sharing pilot revenue with our schools. In 2023, this chamber was filled with residents begging the council to do just that, and the request has continued to be asked since then. We were and continued to be told that it can't happen. We were told that there was no way that the township would share with the district because the district would not do the right thing with the money. And while the district didn't do the right thing before, the fact of the matter is the district still needed the m the extra money then and it certainly needs it now. And right now we have a superintendent who is doing her job and is balancing the budget. In January, the district cut 100 positions. Last week, the district announced that they will be repurposing Renaissance Middle School. And there's also a possibility that Edgemont may be closed at the end of the next school year. The district has plans to make million millions of dollars in cuts for next school year should the official vote turn out to be a no on question two. And those cuts will not just change Montlair schools as we know them, but will change the township of Montlair as a whole. We have also been told that pilots can't be shared with the district because that would mean that our taxes will go up in order to balance the municipal budget. But when the CFO in 2023 was pressed on that, there was an admission that it would be possible to share pilots without raising

taxes if the township decided to make cuts instead. Manager Markx has already proposed 5% in cuts, and he is right to do so, especially with the increase in health care expenses. But the district is making more than 5% in cuts. The township has other sources of revenue to tap into, such as the pilot for Lacawana and also the tax on cannabis. Where are all of those cannabis stores? By the way, I know one is soon to open if it hasn't already. So, please do not tell us it isn't possible because the truth is that it is possible. It's simply a matter of choice. And I urge you to consider the implications of choosing not to share with our schools. Like they teach us in kindergarten, sharing is caring. Since I have some extra time, another outstanding item on the list is virtual comment for council meetings. Several parents would have commented tonight if they had the option to participate virtually. I'm sure that is true for other residents as well who may be homesick or unable to drive in the dark. and also please pass the ordinance for the Montlair Trust Act. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Hi, good evening. Uh, Mayor Baskl, council members, my name is Dan Hayitz, uh, Ward 2. Uh, I am here tonight on behalf of Impact. Uh, we're an organization. It stands for Bontlair uh, Partnership for Accountability, Clarity, and Trust. Um we formed last fall uh to focus on our schools to support accountability and transparency within our school district and to explain the complex policy and budget issues relating to our schools so we can inform the voting public. We've published documents, we call them explainers on school busing, making budget data more user-friendly and transparent. Do uh DOE appointed state monitors, state DOE appointed state monitors, uh letters to the dis and we've written letters to the district uh and BOE advocating for accountability and transparency. Uh today we published an explainer on pilots. Um the author uh principal author uh is behind me uh Tara Defari Kapoor who's a professor. Um our work focuses on our schools but we took on the issue of pilots because it has an important impact on our schools specifically on our school taxes and potentially on school funding. uh EMPAC did not take a position in this document supporting or opposing the use of pilots uh supporting or opposing the Lacawana development or supporting or opposing using pilot funds for schools. What we support is clear and thoughtful and careful decision-making. I'd like to direct you to the recommendations that we make in the document. You can access it at uh www.mactmacctj.org. um specifically the idea that whatever decision you make about the Lacawana project that you carefully consider the impact on our schools and our taxes. I can see how carefully you are weighing the decision to approve uh this pilot uh as evidenced by the fact that you have

uh tabled it uh this evening. I strongly urge you to consider carefully the impact on our schools, how it imposes a new development imposes burden on our taxpayers uh to support education for all of our students. Once the pilot is granted, it can't be undone. I understand that in the discussion of council member Damato's resolution uh in December uh that would require the use of some pilot funding for our schools there resistance to the idea of putting funding towards the schools because of the mismanagement and the concern that in essence it would be good money spent after bad. Our schools are in crisis right now and dramatic changes are being made uh to write the ship. I'm the parent of a child who uh attends a school that will be closing in the fall. Um it's a decision that I personally do not fight because we have to make sacrifices. Um but the efforts that we're making right now to put our uh schools in better financial footing uh being led courageously by uh Superintendent Turner I believe will just I'll just finish very quickly. The issue is that if we simplistically wave away considerations of our schools and school funding and school taxes when we vote on Lacawana, we risk consigning the town to underfunding our schools for years to come despite the changes that are underway that very likely will succeed. Uh and so we really have to make sure we carefully consider this development. Thank you for letting me go over time. Have a great night.

Thank you. Next guest, please. I'll take less than three minutes so I can give it to Dan. My name is Taradafri Kapoor. Um I'm a resident in Ward One. Thank you so much for being here today and listening to us. Um I'll just add a little bit to what Dan said. Um but you know, our superintendent has made so many hard decisions. Uh she has closed a beloved middle school. She just had a meeting with parents at one of our elementary schools letting them know that they maybe just have one more year. I think perhaps the town can also start making some hard decisions. I think perhaps the town could also look at the municipal budget and think about where we can make cuts. Um we are one, right? It's not the town versus the schools. We are one. We need to talk. We need to collaborate. Um other municipalities in New Jersey have found ways to share pilot monies and pilot revenues, especially for residential developments which impact school enrollment. I would strongly urge our council to really consider taking this into consideration with the Lacwana Plaza development that's coming up and I would urge you to adopt a policy of pilot sharing revenue with the board of education so that our fiscal decisions that we are making reflect our shared responsibility to Monontlair students and taxpayers. Sharing pilots helps to reduce the burden on homeowners from the school tax portion of the levy that they're asked to pay. Um, also I would um like the to ask the council to please pass the Montlair Trust Act ordinance as well as to consider reinstating the animal transfer program to the Montlair shelter. I have lots of things. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please. So if a pilot project generates the students for the school district and that district is not receiving a portion of pilot money or a fair share of pilot money, it means the taxpayers are paying to educate those students. At the same time, pilot funding is not reducing our burden as taxpayers because it sits outside the tax levy and above it. So you exercise your full authority to tax. You take usually just 01% less than your full 2% tax increase allowance and then you get the full amount of pilots on top of that. So pilot funding in the township has been supporting municipal overburden. It supports a police department that's larger than it needs to be, that is stop heavy, and has an abysmal clear rate. It supports a fire department that is larger than would be in nearly all towns our size. And yet, they're bullish, they're entitled, and they're asking for more. It supports health insurance that's more expensive and more generous than the health insurance of any of your taxpayers who have jobs in the private sector. It's supporting municipal over burning. Right here at 205, we have more than we need. And at the schools, we spend more than we should. We have less than we need and we still spend more than we should because of federal and state mandates. We're in a hard place. Now I think you have three choices with pilot. You can choose not to grant them at all. You can choose actually four. You can choose not to grant them at all. You can choose to fund municipal

overburden which is what you're doing. You can choose to actually create taxpayer relief. And one way you could do that that is actually explicit that would show up on my tax bill and your tax bill is if you use it to pay the type one debt. and then not exercised your authority to le to levy the separate le the local school levy for the type one debt that discount would show up on our tax bill. You don't have to explain it. We would all see it. So if you care about relieving your taxpayer burden, you can do that. Otherwise to say the pilots relieve taxpayer burden at the municipality, it's a lie and we're not done. It's gaslighting. The other thing you can do is realize that our kids are getting less than they need even though we're spending more than we should. And then you could share some of this funds with the schools because it's needed and because it's right. And the like on a pilot, by the way, is probably going to send between 30 and 60, not between 20 and 30 students to the municipalities. That's based on data from the actual number that actual pilot buildings in Monontlair sent to the school district in 2023. If I had more time, I'll give you the calculations. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Uh Sarah Avery, a Montlair resident. I just wanted to bring up the uh Mills Memorial Social Services uh building. Uh there was a case in uh 2023, the former owner uh went to court to have the uh debt restriction removed from the property. And I and I don't understand why we use attorneys in this town who really are not interested in the uh are not working in the best interest of the residents. You know, I pointed out that Joe Ragno of Waters McFersonson McNeel, he is the architect of the pilot deal at the Alistister building, which when you look at that pilot deal, the the rents were capped per unit, $3,300 at the end of the pilot term. and we know the rents are far in excess of that. How can we employ a professional who has worked to damage the town? I I can't comprehend it. And to that point, Riker Danzic, Derek Freimile, why are we using an attorney who has worked against the interests of the resident? because um that agreement states uh the the agreement for the settle the settlement of the uh the case. Wherever in this agreement the words selected corporation appear, they shall

mean charitable or elus eleation. Um, the placeic family foundation is not a charitable organization. It is simply a nonprofit corporation. How am I so certain that I am right? I'm an expert in taxexempt organization reporting and compliance. When I retired, I was the taxexempt leader for a an accounting firm with 800 people. So, anybody in that 800 person firm, if they had a question about a taxexempt organization, they called me. I was it. And that's why I am 100% certain that the place family foundation does not satisfy the requirements to be the owner of the Mills Memorial Social Services Building. It was it was a ploy to transfer the building to place so he could sell it back to the town and make money. And I think that is a conflict of interest that cannot be overcome. To top it off, it's the Montlair residents who paid Riker Danzig's bill for this particular matter $40,000.

Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Hi, my name is David Grinbomb. I'm a resident of Montlair since 1966 with a bit of a lapse in the middle. Um, and um, I just want to say something on the record. I want to make sure the monster local captures this. The Lacawana Plaza that we know today has been designated by top authorities as a national historic designated landmark. It has also been designated as a state historic landmark as well as a local historic landmark. Now what constitutes that landmark property? the entire property including the train shed section that's clearly defined in its designation published designation by architectural authorities who felt it important to preserve this property. Now what does that mean? Is it a relic for us to look at like a a relic in a museum to ponder? No. In fact, in the 1980s, a brilliant architect named Richard Blender, who was responsible for the restoration of Grand Central Station, the Beacon Theater, the Apollo Theater, Lincoln Center, parts of Empire State Building, was a Monontlair resident who oversaw the redevelopment of Lacawana in which he guided the architects on on the project to create a glass enclosure over the train sheds. Now what did that do? It preserved the original structure as it had been as well as created an extraordinary interior space that is still viable.

That space is architecturally brilliant space. Presently, it's partitioned with non structural partitions and dividing it up into the separate retail stores. There are three distinct rows of atrium space. I would describe them as almost a glass cathedral. That space is brilliant space that warrants a great use. And I believe it'll be incredibly commercially viable to be used in a number of different ways. and I do not believe it should be demolished as it is presently planned with the current plan. So I believe that we have seen and I've been through as a commissioner in this town. I've watched the compounding the compounding and the compounding of error in this project and it saddens me. And the person who I hold most responsible for this is Janice Tally, who I believe has acted completely with subtrafuge to push through and frame and guide and and and hide information. Bottom line is regarding the pilot, the gentleman who is the township expert says the best decision that can be made today unlimited number of variables and the based on the data available today to come up with his calculations. Well, why not have that model available for us to run sensitivity analyses to determine under different scenarios what different outcomes will be realized? What outcomes in terms of the effect on number of students based on revenues to the town, the timing of revenues?

He himself indicated there's an unlimited number of variables. Let's test them all out and understand our options. Good. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.

Ariel Alexat, Monontlair resident. Um, so we are our schools are in crisis right now, dividing our town and we are providing the developer a subsidy for a pilot that gives no money to the schools. It makes absolutely no sense. In addition, the calculations in the pilot say that the per student cost is $11,931. The per student cost for Montlair is approximately $28,000 per student. I do not understand how this number is being used. And when you add it up, also the number of students is greatly uh undercounted. um when you add this up it it comes out to a huge number. So not only is uh are we giving a minimum pilot no money to the schools I think people not only need to ask for money for the schools but to raise the pilot or to get rid of the pilot alto together so that there is a normal tax base from which our schools can be funded. I feel it's not an accident that these things have happened at the same time and we really we we need to think globally now about about these issues and how we can solve them. And uh just as a last thought um on a few other unrelated things, I I am curious why in zoning and planning board meetings the experts are put under oath but not in this meeting. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I'm

curious. Um I hope you guys pass the Montlair Trust Act and our trees are just the suffering. I mean, if you guys have been past Essex Park, it is so sad to see this. It It looks like 20 feet of salty snow against these beautiful not only old historic trees, but also brand new trees. And I I I just I I know that the the tree ordinance that this has been trying to be passed for such a long time. I I really hope we can get this done. Thank you. Thank you very much. At this point in time, we're going to move on to the consent agenda. Okay. You'll be our last um person for public comment and then we're going to go on to our consent agenda.

Thanks. Hi, Jessica Stoolsburg, Monontlair resident.

Um I hope that you'll listen to the youth that was here speaking so powerfully tonight. And let's not delay the Montlair Trust Act. Um, I honestly would if if you don't want to pass it, I hope you'll tell us why not. Um, I think the theme that comes up at a lot of our meetings is um, safety and security, different ways, fiscal, personal, human, um, etc. So, because it's budget season and I know you guys are thinking about where will you be allocating funds for the next budget, I need to return to the sidewalks, which does connect to issues with street trees and the tree ordinance. um and money to reimburse all the residents who were wrongfully charged to and cited and spent thousands and thousands of dollars to repair sidewalks that they did not need to repair. And I they still need to be compensated and how they just are told no is I'm still baffled by that. Um, I also hope that money will be found to mitigate what's happening at Essex and Eerie Parks that continues day after day after day when it really could that you could put some money in and some manpower in and get people power, excuse me, and get what's there out of there as soon as possible. Um, so ahead of the the storm out came an emergency um or it was actually after the snow. was about the uh the need to clean sidewalks and this is what we got from the township. Cleaning sidewalks and curb ramps is essential for people with disabilities, wheelchair users, seniors and parents with strollers to travel safely through our community. When there is no snow on the ground, the sidewalks of Montlair are not safe for strollers or people with disabilities and very often seniors and honestly everyone else. And we I've talked about that before, so I won't get through to

that. Uh, repeat that. Um, money is spent for safety a lot. We've heard that a lot from you. Why you're you're interested in investing in new municipal buildings so that the employees at the at the police are safe. Um, the Clary Anderson, you needed to that building and the ice skating community to be safe. They got a million dollars. You needed your ground crews to be safe. They got a $300,000 new truck this year, log truck and a new plow. And you mentioned safety for your employees. Pedestrians are all of us. 40,000 of us. Visitors even more. We walk and walk and walk our streets. The employees may not walk our streets, but we do. We know most we, you know. So, I'm going to quickly read to you. Oh gosh, I'm running out. So, please bear with me. Fanwood, New Jersey. The burrow may elect to replace sidewalks that are raised by the roots of a burrow tree. Edgewater. The burrow will be responsible only for repair and maintenance of sidewalks. When a sidewalk is damaged by burrow trees existing or planted in the public right of way Trenton, where sidewalk damage was caused by roots from street trees, the city will assume the cost of replacing that portion of the sidewalk. Wayne um need of that growth of trees or their roots or shrubs or uh are owned or were planted or caused to be planted by the township. Princeton. If any sidewalk is found to have been raised or damaged by municipalityowned trees, the cost of any work done to remove, repair, or replace the tree and/or sidewalk shall be borne by the municipality. The system, you did not cause this problem. You inherited it. But you can solve it. Councelor Damato, you said the buck doesn't stop. I don't believe that the buck does stop. You can decide to adopt an amendment to our sidewalk ordinance and allow your trees that break your sidewalks to be your responsibility. And in so doing, you will make so many sidewalks more safe for 40,000 people.

And when you talk about taxes going up and you can't do it because you raise our taxes, how come you weren't concerned when you found a million dollars for Clary Anderson or when Mr. Ashley got a new log truck? that raised our that was our tax money. So, please I don't think you'll hear complaints from us or residents. Maybe raise your hand if you would be sad if the town invested money to pay for their trees that broke your sidewalk or their sidewalk, but it's in front of your house. I think people would be grateful and I think it's the right thing to do because the system we have is leaving us unsafe every single day and there's no system to make it work and the citation system isn't working because code isn't proactive they're reactive which means there are no citations for the street trees and nobody's taking care of them and I ask you to please find money this year and get started start making count I am happy to help I have other people who will help you we can figure out we can document all of them let you know their location because nobody's going to call it in because then right now they're turning in their neighbor.

Thank you so very much. We appreciate you. All right. Now we're going to move on to the consent agenda. Huh? Um now we're going to move on to the consent agenda. So we have um 13 items there. Does anyone want to have anything pulled out of the consent agenda? 25 and seven 8 11 and 12.

Um 10. Okay. So we have Yeah, we have one 5 7 8 10 11 12 four 13. What else? Four. Four. Okay. So we don't have a consent agenda. We're going to start with the bills list.

Well, I I'll go for it.

I you know, I asked some questions which I received answers to. I I just want to make a couple of points. one, we keep getting old bills being paid and I was told that Verizon we still have at least one more trunch coming in and I'm hoping we're nearing the end of this. This is, you know, I have board of education nightmares of bills being found in drawers and whatever. And I know we're not quite there, but it is disturbing to be paying, you know, these Verizon bills are from 2022, which is not normal. My other comment is on um the Shroger Group snow removal 700,000. Multiple comments here. I one they used to do a good job. This year they did not do a good job. I don't know how much of town they do, but we did definitely did not get our money's worth. It led to the need to some I thought some of it unnecessary. remove snow from streets because they had not been adequately plowed, which led to a very undesirable would be my nicest word situation at Essex Park and Erie Park. um which is ongoing that um you know will need to be looked at carefully and this council needs to adopt a policy for next winter as to when where snow is being taken from the streets and where it's going and do that and those are my comments.

Okay. Um anybody else have any other comments on the bills list? Okay. Number four. Oh, councelor Toller. I Thank you. Um, so we're going to go to page. It's a question. Page two. Um, I see there's a payment for vendor number 5766 and $24,000. Um, just want to know, you know, what type of supplies these are for and what kind of testing or safety diagnostics. Where is that for?

Vendor number what? 5766 on page two 5766 Drager safety diagnostics I do not know I will have to find out and report back okay so then we'll move on to page three I can't figure out which page

I'm just wondering the payment for Hudson County Motors, which vehicles are being repaired because I thought a lot of the departments got newer cars and we're still repairing vehicles. So again, it's page three and the vendor number is 4263. Right. That that's another one I will have to look into and report back. Okay, we're going to go to page five. I have a question on Where's your page? Did you see page number? They're in the top corner on your right side.

Um page five, vendor 101187. We're paying tree planting services $50,000. Where where are the trees? Where are they going? Who's planting them?

Just uh I can answer that question too. Uh 5766 Drager safety diagnostics. The Alcatus supplies are for the police um breathalyzers. Thank you. The trees I gave um one of the counselors a list of all the locations um supplied by Dr. Johnson of all the locations. They're paid through a grant and um the types and kinds of trees are also um with the backup if you want it. Can you supply that for all the council members, please? Sure. Thank you. That would be great because I'd love to see where the trees are going. But um the other

you said you would check on the the vehicle repair for vendor number 4263 if just curious which vehicles. And of course we're going to go to well you mentioned Verizon. Thank you council Harrison. Um I'd like to pull two bills off of this bill list on page seven. uh vendor number 25501 which is Angel's Landscaping as well as vendor number 8107 which is Shoger. Um if you'd like for me to clarify uh why I would like to pull them I'm happy to do that.

Yes, please. Sure. Uh so Angel's Landscaping uh prior to this meeting I did email the manager. I don't think he said he said he didn't get it in time which is fine but I wanted to see the invoices and I also want to pull uh vendor number 10 1315. um for Mark Vanero Trucking. Okay. It's for $77,000. But for Angel's Landscap and I'd like to see the invoices um cuz that particular snowstorm I texted the manager that day and um you know Angels was just hanging out in Nishaw Wayne Park for a good two hours. They're supposed to be moving snow just parked there relaxing. I'd like to see their invoices. Uh I'm not sure.

I'm sorry to interrupt you. the um the two that you just mentioned, angels and um I could just go get them. You had asked that question, too. I have sher. Okay. But so I could get I have angels printed upstairs.

Okay. Well, I'd still have to go through them and I'm willing to come in tomorrow and I'd like to have all the invoices for both of these vendors because going through Shawers is quite interesting. They've actually submitted duplicate bills with different dates but the same job number. the amount of money that they have things broken down. For example, and this is because someone said they wanted it on the record. Um, invoice 114248 uh is for $53,000 for February 2nd. No, February 3rd and 4th for 30 hours. They have another invoice here uh for $59,500 for February 5th and 6th for 30 hours. So, is 30 hours $59,500 or is 30 hours $53,000?

I think they they also have the they also have the time sheets of each of the people. Yeah, they submitted duplicate time sheets with the same name. So, like I you know, I don't know how many staff members they have. Um, but these duplicate invoices with a job number of 25-35 with a storm date of 118 2006. There are accounts and controls in place that should prevent any duplicates. If there's any suspicion of any of any invoice being a duplicate, then I would just recommend that we pull it and then we

Yeah, we actually total up what they've submitted to ensure it's going to cover this $59,15,000. That's my thinking. What's your thinking? So, I I would recommend that we pull those three items from the bill's list and and we uh further discuss. Thank you. just because I wasn't done. Sorry. Go ahead. Um, if someone can explain, uh, vendor number 8652. Um, I think I know what this is, but just for the record, it's Calgone Carbon Corporation. Is that the same page? Uh, this is on page eight and it's for $63,000. What's the name of the vendor?

Calgone Carbon Corporation. Vendor 8658. That is for uh filters for the water utility. They filter the water. Okay. Thank you. And I think that might be my last one. Yes, it is. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Uh I wanted to just I think Dr. Johnson came down and I I appre Yeah. Thank Thank you. I appreciate you responding to my um my questions and verifying that the uh the $50,000 was paid for by a grant and um if you could maybe provide a little bit more information about where this these trees were planted. No.

Yeah. Yeah. So um thank you. Uh the cost also included increasing tree pits. So we went through the business district of downtown Monontlair and tree pits so we could fit bigger, better trees. And the trees were planted on Orange Road. So before we only had 27 trees on Orange Road. So this increased that number to reduce the heat island effect. And then we also did a big planting throughout the bid through the business improvement district. So that's primarily where the trees went, but then they were scattered throughout different areas as well. You're welcome. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Are we going to Oh, we going to vote on the bill list now and then or we going to I just want to make sure those three are being pulled. Yes, trucking,

angels, and shelters. They're they're being pulled off right now. Okay. Just the the trucking I asked about also and my the response was this was to pick up salt from Hoboken and bring it to town for it was to pick up um it was to pick up salt from the port of Newark, I believe, and deposit it in our salt shed and then to take the snow that was removed in that removal project away. I don't know where it went. Away.

So that's maybe a one time thing that happens annual, you know, one time perhaps once a year this happens or you don't know. Salt every day or every week. This is for it was in in anticipation of the the second major snow event that we had. Okay. All right. We don't have to pull that one then. That's an explanation. I wouldn't I don't think it's necessary. Okay. number. So four. So it's just shocker and angels. Angels. Okay. So there was there were Okay. Shockers. I'm sorry.

I'm Should I move the bill list and with those two deletions? I move approval of the bill list minus the uh bill invoice from Angel's Landscaping and Suburban and the invoice from Shroger Property Services, Inc. Second. Madame Clerk, Deputy Mayor Anderson, yes. Councelor Birmingham, yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller, yes. Councelor Williams, yes. Mayor Baskerville, yes. Thank you. Number four, please.

Um, yeah, Mayor, thank you. I just This reads as an emergency appropriation, and I just wanted to be clear that this is not an emergency. This is sort of a um routine thing that we have to do before our we pass our we adopt our 2026 budget. But I wanted to just and I'm going to be on this um soap box. I wanted to just point out that we are making this the mandated pension payments of um almost $10 million. And I just want to be clear that we have a $10 million pension payment and almost 7 million of it is unfunded liability. So th this is the state over decades mismanaging the pension system where now if we just had to pay our normal pension payment

for the employees that we have now who are working now, we would be paying something like $2.6 million. but instead we're paying $10 million because of this the state messing up the pension payment. I just want to be clear on that for people about in the past it was artificially low because this the the cost of employees because the the state was kicking the can down the the to the next generation and we are that generation now and our costs are artificially high by multiple millions of dollars and I just want to put that out there for people when we wonder about affordability and Montlair is impacted more than most municipalities and I just want to put that out there and I will stop talking. Thank you.

No, thank you very much. Excuse me, Madame Mayor. Yes, you're on number four. Did we do two and three? They're going to be I wanted to pull two. I had a question. So, I didn't know. This is the first I'm hearing. So, we'll go back to two unless anyone else has anything on number four. Okay. Then, um since we just did number four, um anybody want to move it and pass it? And I'll second. I'll move it. I got second. Madam clerk.

Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison. Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. This is item number four. Oh, he's absent. Okay. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Um, number two, councelor Toller, please. Yeah. I just had some questions because I see Eastn Armored Services. Um, I'm just wondering what this vehicle is for, who's using it. It's it's basically a bank to pick up uh deposits for to be uh deposited in the bank. So, it's for armored car service, right?

It's it's an actual service. It's not for a vehicle per se. It's for armored car vehicles like Okay. So we security guards carrying weapons, you know, picking up cash from our tax collector's office and depositing in the local bank. Okay. Thank you for that, Mr. Man or sorry, Mr. Marks. Oh, I'm sorry. Um, Deputy Mayor, thank you. Is is this a new thing or has this been done before? Do you know to be it is not new? No. No. Oh, so if I can ask what what are we doing in cash? Yeah. maybe uh like tax uh you know we have a water utility a sewer utility uh tax collections a parking utility

you know I don't want people are paying in cash or you mean for check it's you it's checks paper checks there there are a significant number of people who pay their taxes in cash and and even water and sewer in cash so it's not you know it's not something where I would feel comfortable just sending an employee with cash to a bank you spend $35,000 to protect. Okay. So, now we're going to um have the roll call vote, please, on number two. May I have a movement and a second, please, mayor? Um, move it. Second. Second. Okay. Okay. Deputy Mayor Anderson, yes. Councelor Birmingham, yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller,

yes. Councelor Williams, absent. Mayor Baskerville, yes. I heard you from the back but this is not the time and so that's why I didn't call on you. If you want to have that ask maybe after the meeting someone can help you there but I did hear you. I just not going to call on you from there. Okay. Now we're going to go to number three and we can do um I'll move that second. Madame clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller,

no. Councelor Williams, this is item number three. Councelor Williams, a resolution for budget transfers. Yes. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Number five, please.

Okay. I I just I don't have a substantive problem. I have a problem where the ending was worded and I'd like to delete the first paragraph that starts now therefore and just simply for the last paragraph have it read now therefore be it resolved and then continue with the rest of it. I don't think that's changing anything substantively. It's just worded very awkwardly the Okay. I so move second with that amendment. What was the amendment? To add on the normal to add on the normal whereas language.

Delete the now therefore the paragraph that starts now therefore and have the next one read now therefore be it further resol be it resolved. Okay. It's duplicative. Yeah. Madam clerk please. I'm sorry. I was making the amendment. Oh, I apologize. Who was the movement? I moved. And who was the second? I second. Deputy Mayor Anderson? Yes. Councelor Birmingham? Yes. Councelor Damato? Yes. Councelor Harrison? Yes. Councelor Toller? Yes. Councelor Williams? Yes. Mayor Baskerville? Yes. Thank you. Um, I move number six.

Second. Madame Clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison. Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Thank you. Number seven, please.

Okay. I I'm very confused. I don't have a substantive problem. I just the three and four were directing the attorney general to do things which I think is very nice but I don't think we can but that more significantly there's nothing saying the township will accept the township will apply the township some words as to the township getting the money. I know what you're trying to do. I just don't think the wording gets you there. We we do the same resolution every year for 10 years. They're they basically have a bullet point of things you have to include in it um as part of the application. It's a it's a boilerplate application that we get from the attorney general's office

pretty pretty much. Yeah. They give you a checklist of things you have to include in it like the total cost of the project which is just the the officer's salaries the the like you said the the we can't direct them to do things but they need us to say that in the resolution for whatever reason but and it is that we accept the the funds. May I? But mayor. Yes. So this is a sub award from the attorney general. Is that what we're getting? It's just $45,000 to defer the costs of

Right. But I officers I just want to clarify because there's in paragraph um one um it indicates that we are it is a sub award. Yes. Okay. So there we're getting the funds. It's a pass through from the attorney general's office. Is that right? Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. That's what it looks like. Yeah. Okay. Um, just did you move it or where? I'll move it. I Okay, I'll second. Madam clerk, next year let's show me what they send because it's very confusing. Yes, sir. No problem. Thank you very much. I'm sorry, mayor. No, I'm sorry. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes.

Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller, yes. Councelor Williams, yes. Mayor Baskerville, yes. number eight, please. So, um I just wanted to I thank you. Um I I did pose a question to Mr. Marks about um you know uh this is a to approve a contract with this company DeFo Associates to um look at the operations um of the solid waste and recycling collection system. Can you just kind of explain what prompted this if you don't mind?

So, um, Monontlair Monontlair is one of two towns in Essex County that pick picks up its own, um, solid waste, uh, trash, uh, and recycling. The other is the city of Norc. Um there so they are there are municipal employees basically picking up the you know picking up solid waste carting picking up uh garbage. Um the contract and the past practice is that uh the employees in the solid waste and recycling divisions generally I think this the workday starts at 6:00 a.m. and they're generally done by 11:00 a.m. So they're they are full-time employees uh with full-time benefits and full-time, you know, salaries. Uh but they're only working fivehour days. Um there's a contract for union employees. There's a union contract that references industry standards. Um that hasn't been the contract itself hasn't been updated in 25 years or longer. Um so Mr. DeFeo is a recognized expert. Used to work for the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection and the New Jersey uh Board of Public Utilities and Solid Waste Divisions. Um so he is a recognized expert in solid waste carting and uh recycling um those industries in the state of New Jersey. Um he will be doing an audit not not a financial audit but an operational audit of our operations to make recommendations to make our solid waste and and recycling divisions more economical, more efficient, etc. I have a question. Were you?

Yes, councelor Toller. I'm sorry. Were you done? Councelor. So, he's coming in to basically school the township on how to handle solid waste. Wouldn't our sustainability officer be or director now be able to help with that? Well, sustainability and the economics of solid waste and recycling are two different things. Can you sign it? I mean, we have to

I would not I would not I don't think that despite all of um the sustainability director's um qualifications and her advanced degree, her background is in sustainability and not in solid waste. the economics of solid and not only the economics but the you know the the law there's New Jersey has very particular laws uh with with waste flow um with solid waste card how it's organized at the uh it all the pickups occur at the municipal level but it's organized um environmentally and legally at the county levels there's solid waste flow control there are a lot of things that are involved that he is intimately familiar with that I don't think um the director of sustainability is familiar with. It's two different. Maybe there's a little bit of an overlap between recycling and sustainability, but they're two totally separate things.

I'm just curious when he does his report. I would like to see what our recycle looks like because um our recycle is often taken in the middle of the night, so we're losing revenue and I don't know what other words if they're hearing people in their cans at night. Um

actually, recycling these days has a negative value. So, it's it's only it would cost more to dispose of recycling um through the solid waste stream uh to actually put it in a landfill. Uh but we're from my understanding, we're basically still paying a reduced rate. We're still paying to actually um uh eliminate or or take away recycling. It's not it's not it's something 10 years ago 15 years ago you actually there it was there it was considered to be a commodity and there was something there was a positive value to recycling today there's a negative value to recycling not not

environmentally negative not socially negative I think there's net positives environmentally and socially but economically um you know recycling doesn't have a value as a commodity anymore so it's still saving money if we were to incinerator.

If we if we were to send all our all of our recycling to an incinerator or to a landfill, we'd be paying, you know, three times the rate that we're we're paying probably more um of uh sending the recycling materials to a a and that's one of the I I think I heard a question about Atlantic Coast Fiber on the bills list. I think we send our recycling to Atlantic Coast Fiber at a reduced rate. We're still paying to dispose of our recycling.

Okay. So, solid waste. I mean, I'm just wondering this tipper truck that we paid for that nobody's garbage can can be used with that tipper garbage truck. Would that fall under this as well? Get help us or help residents understand what we need to buy or the municipality think about giving out these cans? We we the council approved for a tipper garbage truck and none of our cans can be used on that garbage truck. So what are the like best practices in the industry? What after analyzing our solid waste and recycling operations, what changes can we make to actually save money and to improve operations and make the um the organizations the divisions more economical and efficient?

Well well well Mr. DeFe always interesting to know what where people ended up after they left the state. But will he also look into other options in terms of uh other places we can bring recyclables or you know if we break the stream up differently or you know I know he's quite knowledgeable I I yes I I know him but okay so he'll look into that that's part of this

and we should acknowledge now some residents have come to me uh seeing that occasionally a truck will be comingling um recyclables uh you know taking two streams and put it into one which is obviously very disheartening to see if you've you know if you've spent time you know keeping them apart and people should continue to do that because there may just be a temporary breakdown in the system where uh there's I guess only one truck or or something else but we have not moved away from two streams or or the crews were working at night dealing with snow did you call Yes, exactly.

Who who who wanted to hear that? You. I second. Madame clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Thank you. Um I move number nine. Second. Madame Clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Uh, number nine. Yes. Council Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato. Yes. Councelor Harrison. Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Council Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville.

Yes. I ask for 10, 11, 12, and 13 to be um pulled because they're just not complete yet. We're getting new um applicants every day, which I think is a wonderful thing because I know deputy mayor was suggesting that we should reach out and try to see if we got, you know, some other people and we are. Um I don't know if you all have had a chance to interview them all yet, but I I I certainly have not. I'd like to move number 10. Second.

Okay. Can you help us, you know, with that? There's there's nothing on here to move. You would have to say something. This is a a resolution appointing a member of the planning board. Um, right. We table this. No, I know I know what you're doing, but mine doesn't have a name. So, where are you? Your yours has a name. Yes. Okay. So, can you read that and walk us through that, please? The name is Nicole Wallace to the member of class. Sorry. Um Nicole Wallace uh appointing proposing appointing her to alternate number two.

Okay. Um discussion. I I am I'm not in favor of this. We have someone um who has demonstrated time and time again that they are extremely uh well-versed and knowledgeable about um planning in particular in New Jersey. whereas um this individual background is not necessarily in New Jersey. And um the people that are on the planning board that I had an opportunity to speak with felt that another candidate should be um considered. So I'm I'm not in favor of voting on um that person for that particular seat. Any other discussion? Isn't this up for a vote?

Yep. No, they have an opportunity to discuss if anybody else wishes to discuss. I know you're ready to go because you've made it quite clear with your comments, but we do have a right if anybody else wish to discuss.

Um yeah, if it's up for a vote, my vote is going to be no. Um we had interviewed two people. Uh the other gentleman is far more qualified. Um and an architect is needed on the planning board. Um, I understand that from his responses, if you will. Um, it kind of fits in with the values that we see in Montlair. Um, young lady was lovely, but her qualifications in my opinion just don't they're not matched. Um, those are my opinions. Um, I think I've shared on via email with some folks here. Um, you know, I'm very concerned about um people being neutral when it comes to making decisions on the planning board. um and if they really understand our community and what we need and what we stand for. Um I have not seen this demonstrated on certain platforms by this individual. So I have some hesitance and some concerns uh regarding being neutral and making fair decisions that equitable across the entire township.

Um so those are my answers and I just believe the other gentleman is far more qualified um than this young lady. And it was also brought to our attention on the um planning board side that the other candidate is a landscape architect and that that was something that very much could be needed at such a time as this when we're doing you know things you know sustainability and with the development we're trying to do environmentally um you know green things and so for that reason I'm I'm not in favor. Anyone else? I I think we have a more qualified candidate and I think Ms. Wallace is a qualified when you have a more qualified candidate and that it is important to select the best candidate.

Can I can I can I just Madam clerk I'm just going to say something before we do the vote since everyone else had an opportunity to speak. Okay. Rushing us. I thought we had to. Well, I'm rushing because you know we have a 3minut clock and routinely people are going over the 3minut time frame. So if we could I'm going to say what I need to say now. Routinely I'm going to if if you don't mind I'm going to say what I I need to say now. Students were felt that it would be very kind to let them finish what they want.

Okay. So let me finish the way you let everybody else finish. Okay. I find I find what we're doing up here to be very distasteful. And the reason being is meeting after meeting, we keep putting these folks on the agenda and then taking them off. And we've been doing this for months. That's number one. The second thing here is look, we all have a right to express how we feel about certain things. And I don't have an issue with that. But I think it's just we have to understand here that we're speaking about people and I don't I don't notice this person here, but we are speaking about people into a microphone in front of everyone. And to say, "Hey, this person's not qualified or this that and that." I I think that's highly inappropriate here. You know, if you don't want to vote for the person, just say, "I would like someone else for it. Uh I'm going to vote no or something like that." But I think it's embarrassing to do that to somebody up here. And you may disagree with me and I'm not going to get into a back and forth. I'm just expressing myself the way everyone else did. That's it.

Good. So, regarding taking things off from from here, you may not remember, but certainly I remember that I tried very hard for at least three meetings in a row for a while to get these things on. Nobody had a problem with it but me and so they were kept going off then. Now all of a sudden since we're doing a new approach, it was suggested that we get um you know some more input from other people. These names are all the exact same names on here that I tried to put months ago when people took them off. So either we've wasted everybody's time and I agree with you or we have agreed to a group that it might be beneficial to get other people. These names I'm looking are the exact same names that I tried three times in a row to put on and the group here took them took them off. So that's all I have to say on that. Roll call, please.

Deputy Mayor Anderson, yes. Councelor Birmingham, yes. Councelor Damato, yes. Councelor Harrison, no. Councelor Toller, no. Councelor Williams, yes. Mayor Baskerville, no. Motion carries. 11. I mean, unless you want to So 11, 12, and 13 are the same ones that we had on here before. I'd like to Yes.

for number, if I may, for number 11, I'd like to move that we um appoint the the following people. Um Soul Demifac, who is the Montlair High School student, Ayanna Nelson, who's the MSU student, and Leslie Brown. Um the others um I think there were some questions um some some is uh some potential policies that you had wanted to discuss.

No, I I I would like to to move these individuals here. They've been outstanding people in on the uh civil rights commission. I tried to put them on and I agree with the um councilman over here. We shouldn't keep them waiting. So I'd like to move all of the people that are on here to be appointed to the Civil Rights Commission. waited for a long time. I just want to say there's a student on here that we have two students. We have to have one. Yeah, we have to take off. Soul is going to be the one from the high school and then we have Ayana from Montlair State. Where is there another student?

No, no, no. I was just saying in general because the deputy mayor only wanted to appoint two and I wanted to just put on the record that we have to have one high school student and one college student. So, it wouldn't be but No, I know that's what we have right here. If if I may, the the chair of the commission wrote to us and said that or at least called called us called me that that uh this the MSU student who was identified is not responsive right now is not returning calls and then I just pass to you and this is not I'm not expecting people to agree with this.

It's fine. just in terms of my own guiding my own votes here. I gave you a list of three, you know, sort of guidelines that I'm going to follow about board appointments. One is a residency requirement. I believe that people should be residents and they should be full-time residents

around, you know, around around the year. I do not believe that people should be serving on more than one board at a time. Um for a variety of reasons uh to maximize the number of spaces for this you know for residents to make them more diverse and to minimize like burnout because we've seen it and and to minimize concentration of influence that people not be appointed to multiple boards. Now we can obviously there are cases when that's required by law like we have boards that require cross cross membership and certainly you can have ad hoc committees and we can have an exemption for like you know blue ribbon panels or we can just wave the exemption with like a super majority. I'm comfortable with that.

I'm going to ask please that we move on and vote because this wasn't on the agenda for tonight. You're just giving this to I'm not asking you to vote on people. Oh, okay. I'm saying as a as a rule. Okay. So, in other words, I'm going to vote against this, but I wanted to show you that I was being thoughtful and it's not about We We've all talked about this. It's not about individuals, right? We talked about this. You're saying this is for committees or just for boards? Boards and commissions and advisory committees. Oh, okay. So, you might have to add a caveat for the boards because people's finances have to be up to date to be appointed to zoning and planning board. They can't have I mean their taxes have to be up to date. Okay. So, can you call the vote, please?

Okay. Mayor, I just want to make sure that this resolution we're going to strike the MSU student. Is that correct? Okay. Deputy Mayor Anderson. So, everybody else? Yes. Except for the MSU student. No. Councelor Birmingham? Yes. Councelor Damato? No. Councelor Harrison? Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. Motion carries. Okay. So, for number the next one, which is number 12.

12. I'd like to move the individuals that have been sitting here for for a while to be appointed. I'll second it. Can I just ask really quickly? Are how many seats are on this committee on the which one are we on? Parks and recreation committee. Quite a few. There's more. I just want to put that out there that there are open seats. The park and volunteer um on your desk today. We got a new stack of forms. So great. We can go.

I would guess without without having that exact number here unless it's on the paper and I just don't see it at the time. I would guess there's probably at least five to seven more seats open for that. Um, so I'd like to to move that and I second it. Madame Clerk, Deputy Mayor Anderson, yes. Councelor Birmingham, yes. Councelor Damato, no. Councelor Harrison, yes. Councelor Toller, yes. Councelor Williams, yes. Mayor Baskerville,

yes. Number 13, I would like to to move the individuals on number 13. We just have the two people, Wendy McNeel and Alan Cohen on on here and they've been here waiting to be appointed and we have um I would guess maybe 10 more seats open. I mean a lot more seats on this. I'm just I know it's a lot of people um that that can um be considered for this and and I do um you know I I do like the idea that we're reaching out to to other people. So I I'd like to move that second. Madame clerk. Deputy Mayor Anderson. Yes. Councelor Birmingham. Yes. Councelor Damato.

Yes. Councelor Harrison. Yes. Councelor Toller. Yes. Councelor Williams. Yes. Mayor Baskerville. Yes. I'd like to make a motion to adjurnn. All in favor? I. Any opposed?