Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee - Regular Meeting

Thousand twenty six at 09:05 a. M. I'm Alderman Baumann, chair of the committee. Alderman Stamper to my right is here as vice chair. Alderman Cogg will be joining us shortly. We're also joined by Alderman Spike to my far left. To his right is Alderman Deandre Jackson and our staff assistant is Chris Lee. Are also joined by common counsel president Jose Perez. First item on the agenda, we will call these together items one and two. Item one, file two five one seven seven three, the substitute ordinance relating to Department of Neighborhood Services enforcement of code violations for multiunit residential properties.

And item two, file two five two two four zero, an ordinance relating to penalties for code violations on multiunit residential properties. Okay. How we are going to proceed? Well, basically these two files are a follow-up to commitments made by many members of the council at a press conference held about months ago at the Concordia 27 location, 27th And Wells and that promise was that we would work on some enforcement mechanism and some ordinance amendments which would deal with the problem of chronic nuisance landlords, basically landlords of multi unit buildings that seem to be immune or unable to deal with the orders that are issued against them. These ordinance take two approaches.

One, to give DNS certain powers similar to the eighty-ten chronic nuisance ordinance only this would apply to the case of multi unit landlords. And the second is a provision that would impact municipal court in that we would allow judges to apply penalty enhancers to cases cases normally before them that the housing is that the Department Neighborhood Services brings to Muni Court. And similar to what happens in state court under the criminal code where you can provide a penalty enhancer to an underlying offense to increase the potential incarceration fines and so forth. These are complicated. These are bureaucratically intense.

So I think the way we're going to proceed today is have LRB who drafted to text to these ordinance basically explain what they do and what and how they'll work and then have department of neighborhood services explain the municipal court process, the prosecution side of their activities which I think is a little less well known to not only its citizens but probably council members as well because it's kind of an inside baseball process that doesn't get a lot of visibility. So I think that's and then we will hold these two files because the city attorney wants to do some additional legwork and research, which is fair because these are complicated matters. Unless other people are here to testify, we'll take testimony if people are present on these files. But they haven't been publicized yet. There's been no news releases.

So I don't think word is out. Although Barada knows because their lawyers already sent in multi page letters objecting to the files. So that's fine. That's their rights. Free country. They're entitled to be heard. So why don't we proceed starting out with that here?

Mister chair? Yeah.

In all. And just at the appropriate time, I want to be added as a co sponsor.

You you you're on. How about anybody else? Yes. Yes. Alright. Good. All in Spike, are you? Sure. Alright. Good. Gunner.

Good morning, Chairman Baumann and members of the committee. Gunner Rasch from the Legislative Reference Bureau. So, I'll start by explaining common council file two five one seven seven three and then I'll explain how the second item on the agenda differs from it. So, this ordinance begins by defining a multi unit residential nuisance. There is one standard defined in the ordinance in the original draft of the ordinance but based on conversations with the DNS, we have worked to refine that standard with a substitute ordinance.

The original standard would apply to any building with four or more dwelling units that has more than one code or more than one order to correct a code violation per dwelling unit on that property. The way the item number one would work is DNS would designate properties that fit that criteria as a multi unit residential nuisance. The owners or operators of those properties would have an opportunity to either submit an appeal or they could submit a course of action which the commissioner could accept or reject. If the commissioner rejects that course of action, they would provide a reason as to why that course of action is insufficient but it would allow for a process for owners or operators to avoid the special penalty assessed in the ordinance by following that course of action and remediating those issues. This ordinance would provide a new special penalty range that is three times the original penalty range provided in section 200 dash 19 dash one.

So, that does not mean that any or that any violation could be assessed to the maximum of of that range. The way that typically works is every individual violation that is covered under the penalty section of 200 dash 19 dash one has a forfeiture amount which is provided in the non traffic deposit schedule which is provided by the municipal court and approved by the common council every year. So this would provide a range that is three times. The council, if passing this type of resolution, could indicate to the municipal court administrator T Norfolk that the intent would be to have penalties that are three times as high for each individual violation, but those would not actually be set until that non traffic deposit schedule is actually approved by the common council. The second item on the agenda, two five.

Mister chair. Yeah. All over

the Just based on the first one, do you in in your research, did you kind of estimate that entire process that you talked about, the time frame on it?

It's it's hard to assess a specific time frame and that might be more of a question for DNS but I imagine it would depend on the specifics of what the issues are at the property and what what would be a reasonable time for those to be remediated.

Mike Bazmanian, Deputy Commissioner of Neighborhood Services. We haven't really thought about how we would operationalize this quite yet. But I think a process similar to any of our other appeal processes providing, you know, anyone that receives this notification with their right to appeal and then I think following a similar timeline to that would probably be the way it would work. That doesn't provide any definition but I think something similar to the processes that we already have in place would probably be there.

LRB has been working with your office, correct? Correct. In fact, quite a bit which is why this is taking a little longer than I would have liked. We want this to be workable because of an amendment which seems to have a lot of teeth but no bite is just paper. We want to make sure your department is able to administer this aggressively yet fairly and that so it has some impact rather than just something on the books that no one figures that no one can figure out that's just too cumbersome to use. So are you comfortable we can get to that point and also doesn't overburden staff to require you to hire 10 more people to administer this thing.

Right now Understood. We did talk about that, know, making sure that the way the ordinance was crafted is something that we can easily report on track and administer so that it's not overly cumbersome or something that's going to get lost because in order to produce the metrics that we need to make this determination is so intensive that it's just not workable for us. So we did work quite a bit. I think we came to a good place with number of orders that's easily reportable from our system to find that designation. And then we haven't worked through, you know, how that would work with the communication for property with property owners, that appeal process. So that's kind of where we're at

with it. Okay. All right. So

the second item on the agenda 252,240, the difference with this ordinance is that it would still create these subcategories of of violations. So for every violation covered under 219 dash one, there would be a subcategory underneath it where DNS could issue a citation for that violation as a multi unit residential nuisance. So rather than having the Department of Neighborhood Service Services designate a property and then having an appeals process or allowing for a course of action. It would be something that is handled within the municipal court. So, DNS would simply charge an owner or operator of a building that they have that with an order that there's a violation committed as a multi unit residential nuisance and then the status of that would have to be adjudicated along with the outstanding violation in the municipal court.

Yesterday, we discussed the non traffic forfeiture. What did you call that?

The the non traffic deposit schedule.

The non traffic deposit schedule. And while we had thought that applied to housing and building code issues, the administrator for the court said, no, it doesn't. You should listen to that tape. You said that it really should say the non traffic, non housing deposit schedule because there is no deposit schedule for building code violation.

Are you

aware of that?

I was not aware of that.

Don't you explain how how property gets to housing to community court? Sure. What's that process?

Sure. So basically we go, we receive a complaint or make an observation of violations at a property. We issue orders to correct those violations with some stipulated timeline. If they are not corrected at that point, we can either charge a reinspection fee, provide an additional timeline for compliance or forward that order to municipal court. So if we send the order to court, it then gets into our court system. It's handled by

our court system. It's the court system how? Is there a summons and complaint? Is there a what exactly triggers municipal court jurisdiction over the matter?

Yes. And how many reinspection fees or months before it goes to court?

So the the reinspection fee piece is is somewhat discretionary. If we have contact with the owner and they are working towards compliance, we we always want to go that route. If they have not responded to our attempts at contact, are not responsive to any correspondence, then we could just send it right to court. Apologize.

What's our termination, though? Is it a month, two months, three months? What is it?

Some reflection of the timeline for compliance for the order. If if it's to No.

Just strictly neglect. They're not responding.

Right. No. I mean, in in those cases, if we haven't had any correspondence, then generally, I think those would be sent to court.

When you say sent to go in how long? It varies.

So it varies based on so if you have an exterior order to paint your house you generally get ninety days for exterior code violations. So something more severe or interior, sometimes we have a thirty day order. The timeline for compliance varies depending on what violation. The

of compliance is not met. Is it time for the court right after that?

Yes. So if we determine that the order come due and there's not compliance will then forward it to our court section.

Court saying and what do they do with the order.

So then yes I believe you're correct they would issue a summons for this individual to appear that. And to And do contact them. If not, we'll if they don't show up in court, it's typically a default judgment. At that point, the order that we have issued gets dismissed. We reissue a order as litigated noncompliant. So the order don't take any action to bring this property in compliance or address the violations. And then that order gets sent to our monthly reinspection program. So we'll then go out every month and charge.

After the judgment been entered?

Yes.

And and is is and then does the court impose a penalty, a monetary penalty?

Yes. So.

Perpetual in essence?

I I believe so and I apologize. Our court administrator couldn't be here today. She's in court. But, yeah, I believe the court charges a a fee related to the court costs. The same thing with the citation. So it's a a amount identified from the deposit schedule. From what I understand, the individual is there and they're willing to work to resolve the issues, the judge will then reduce that amount, sometimes cut it in half.

Mr. Chair? Yeah, hold on for a

Even that even what you just described that process, what just in general, what does that look like? Six months, nine months before it gets to that point?

I think it depends on the volume of cases that are in the court system as to when we can get a hearing. Think generally it's three to six Yeah.

Okay. Is this process written down anywhere? I I can go to the rules of civil procedure for state court and have a clearly defined roadmap of how to file a summons, how to file a complaint. It's laid out pretty precisely. Of course people go to three years of law school to figure that out too but that's a practical matter one can pretty much follow that road is there any road map as to how this all works in our ordinances there are handbook are there are new municipal court rules of that they that they abide by that lays any of this out of me how would a lay person. Ever figure out how this works.

Yeah I I can't speak to whether or not there is a road map. We have SOPs for our processes.

You do?

Yeah. Related to how an order gets to court and what needs to be done in order for it to be a valid order that we can then prosecute. Beyond that, the actual court proceedings, I can't speak to the legality of of that.

Is is there any worse people can view the docket? View what cases are pending? What what landlords are in court?

I believe that's publicly available, but I I can't

say what's going on.

Is this connect to LMS or a seller for every property?

So an order that is pending court would receive a status that that note of that indicates that it is pending court action.

So a seller can can you look up a property? All this should be readily available?

Yes or if you wanted to see how many orders are pending court action you could search by that record status and

it was the nuisance process listed in a seller.

That's 80 dash 10. That's I don't think so. It's police.

I think.

But if you if you have to if a landlord has to submit a plan, put the plan on a seller.

Well, this is what we're proposing to do. It is is to parallel the eighty ten chronic nuisance process which is a police administered process for which there is no central clearinghouse either. I mean, I don't unless the police send us a letter, nuisance letter and we keep them in a file which I do a hard copy file. There's no central log that you can go to and see Database. What chronic nuisance And that

should be connected to a seller.

So it is when property gets notified, we receive a copy of that letter that generally prompts us to perform an inspection so that if if we understand that there are behavioral problems at this property, we go out and do an inspection to see that they

are. Exactly.

Yes. Okay. So when we receive that letter, it prompts us to make an inspection. That inspection or that record is noted as being related to the nuisance action.

So the police copy you on their chronic nuisance.

Yes.

But the police when the police are doing it right, they usually take inspectors with them to do some of these investigations.

Yeah.

That's true.

Should be at the same time. Yeah. But, mister chair Yeah. Yeah. So what's the ultimate result, though? Does the city take the house back if they get fined after fined after fined and they decide not to pay them? Is that a goes towards the taxes and the city takes the property?

So I I think that that order. I I think it could go a number of different ways. I can't speak to all of the the legal options that we have once an order is has not come due. If we continue to charge reinspection fees, those do get placed on the tax roll and then eventually that property would get taken in foreclosure. How that gets initiated, I think there are number

judgments are in the judgment.

I know that part.

Judgment judgment is a magic word judgments can be entered a transcript of judgment can be sent over to the Milwaukee County clerk of court that transcript of judgment can be docketed and upon docketing it becomes a lien on the property. Mhmm. And in fact it becomes a lien on all the property that the judgment that are may own which gives the judgment holder namely the city certain powers to garnish bank accounts to execute and levy on personal property to foreclose on real estate and I'm just wondering if any of that ever happens because there are tools out there believe me that every collection lawyer in Milwaukee can tell you what those tools are and they use them very effectively. Are we doing any of that? Yes.

I guess I'd have to defer that question to the city attorney's office.

Yes. A lot of this has to be cleaned up. Mean we got to know what the baseline is here as a parallel effort to change the process. We gotta know what the current process is. Would that is that fair?

So you don't know?

I I I'm to what question?

To what is The

judge the judgment issue.

The judgment of whether we can accept the property or the ultimate result of it.

Well, I think we can. I think it's a matter of how that legal path gets pursued. But I

don't think that happens in every a classic case where the the little guy, Ma and Pa Barker, who have a duplex that they rent out, they're the ones they can't they can't hire lawyers. They they aren't familiar with the statute books. They aren't familiar with any of I a

very important

point. That's case.

Case. And I

to is to process. The is court has done with those high high growth properties?

How many calls for how many confirmed calls for service?

Just a simple record

of where we I think we can provide you with that information.

Or S1, the Sam Stairs guy. I mean, we just saw there was a story in the journal today about the dreaded conditions of some of his properties. Mister Chen, had Moody had that ever gotten a Moody Court? Now. Yeah, please.

No. I I appreciate you bringing these files up. We've talked about them and, you know, I have three communication files as steering your rules on June 8. They're very specific around hearing from departments and they're all geared towards getting the information we need to improve the system we have.

I have no problem moving this steering rule.

This is this is you know the the the Sam Staircase is the second time on the near South Side. We have property owners that have several many many properties that have run drug empires. It happened back in 1617 with Churchill, now Sam Stair, and these mobile enterprises just we gotta tighten up our processes to prevent these from happening. Right. People are calling, inspections are happening, police are showing up, and the the rest of the system has work to tighten this up.

It's just right now it's not working if we if if landlords can have mobile drug empires and the impact they've had and ask about a time frame because the damage that happens leading up to getting it to court, to getting it into a plan, to actually billing status if that's the case, there's just way too much that happens in neighborhoods and people are fed up with it.

Okay. So I think we really need to get a clearer picture of what what happens now. And apparently we have incomplete information here. I I'm happy if you want to move this file to steering a rule that's fine with me and then consolidate them all. I agree.

Mr. Chair.

Yeah. All in sample.

But your presentation seemed clear enough to me. So in getting what you need clear, we can at least get that get these going. The nuisance

Well, the nuisance one is separate. The the the court one, yes. I I hear what you're saying. So That was clear.

So you're talking about after

after that happens. Happens. And the city attorney wants us to make a more detailed record of justification for doing this, which means we have to bring in maybe busloads of tenants of affected properties so we can hear their litany of complaints and grievances to make that for the record. Right now we have two city employees high ranking albeit but two city employees before us, four Alderman, five Alderman, and nobody else testifying as to the need. Now we all know there's a need because we hear from our citizens constantly.

But our knowing it is not a record per se. We need actual testimony in the record and maybe we can enlist common ground to round up those folks and bring

them in. Well, the testimony comes from the complaint. And then the complaint is

the record. So

the complaint is the testimony in the record and the amount of them makes it sufficient enough for a

court case. And we'll need that data which is

a big data. I hope I hope that's not no pushback regarding that.

No. But but not a big data dive. I mean, that's that's coming up with a lot of information. I mean, we we have a monthly report that comes out which outlined each outstanding order in each automatic district. Correct? I think we still all get that. I get that.

Yes.

I mean, that's a record right there.

Yeah. Plain records, man. You just need to be in order and take it to court.

Yeah. We I got residents near commercial corridors and neighborhoods that can provide whatever you need. So

Exactly. Alright. So any anybody else wanna testify on this today? Come on down.

Who is this? I don't know.

Good morning.

Yeah.

I am Kirsten Pizuzki. Am the new attorney for the Rental Association Wisconsin.

I hear name.

Kirsten. I have submitted a letter which should be in

front of me.

That's right? I I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Heiner Giese is in the process of retiring, so I'm

start with 19.

The the first So,

it'll help the process. I'm

here with today because number one, we were hoping that we would have some additional time to take a look at these and try to figure out how we make ordinances and help you make ordinances that are something that landlords can be compliant with and something that enforcement can be done in a just and fair way. Alderman Baumann, you had mentioned mom and pop, and very largely our organization is mom and pops. Mom and pop are not probably the people that you're trying to target here. But I have been in court, in municipal court, with people who have been very small landlords. And when you get one offense, sometimes when they come out to take a look at your property, those things kind of mushroom.

And when I look at things like this and the numbers of violations that you can have in thirty six months, you can have somebody who's not really a terrible landlord who can rack these things up. You've talked about exemptions in here and you're talking about painting the house. So there is recognition that there are categories of the ordinances which are not really what you're trying to target.

Think

question. Question.

Question.

Think that's a a

point.

That's about what we're trying to get at here? I Your introduction is talking about the and I agree with you, we shouldn't have people using their ovens to heat their premises. This is a safety hazard. We don't want that. But how do we make sure that this is something that we've got a workable statue? We're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we're not painting with an overly broad brush to try to solve problems that obviously we have here with Highgrove. We need to take some care in drafting this. I have to stand up in front of, if all of my members show up, nearly nine hundred, eight eighty eight, I think, is our current

number. Statewide or just in Milwaukee?

We are spreading through the state and I can't tell you exactly the demographics, but we have a lot of Milwaukee presence. And I have to explain to our members what this means and what they need to do, what they need to be worried about. We do have some big ones. We have a lot of small ones. So the fire disclosure ordinance one, that was a real head scratcher, gentlemen. Trying to figure out how to be compliant with that and how to make that work, we're still working on that. And we've been working with DNS. They have some wonderful people there. They come to our meetings. We really appreciate them.

And they didn't really have the guidance they needed either in order to figure out how to hit the ground running. So there are problems and we need to work together to try to figure out how to fix them. And anything that we can do to be your partner in that, we would like to be your partner. So I understand that we're not making a hard and fast decision today, so I don't need to keep pounding on the table. I just wanted to let you know that we're here. I wanted to let you know that we're looking at this as well and we hope to give you some more feedback and maybe some helpful guidance.

So you've appeared in Municipal Court then on housing matters?

It's been a while.

Okay. Maybe you can explain the process because there nobody else here.

There is a summons and complaint that's issued in the Municipal Court process.

So

I thought the municipal court process, it seemed to me like it worked pretty well but my information is pretty well.

And does the complaint specify a dollar amount that is being sought as a forfeiture?

I believe that it does and I believe that they also add the court costs on top of that. And they the last time I went, I didn't see it was like a ghost town in that building. I don't know what's going on there now. But when I used to go, it used to have a packed hallway and you were talking to somebody from the city attorney's office and trying to figure out not only how to get a forfeiture and make it a little bit painful for somebody who didn't follow the rules, but also making sure that the job got done. The gentleman to my right had talked about, and this is another thing that I was having trouble with in here, he talked about you have an interior problem and it's something that we need a more aggressive timeframe versus ninety days for painting the house.

That's something also that isn't recognized in this. Some things, yes, you need to get I've got a duplex. If my heat goes out, I want somebody there. I want them there as soon as I can. I can't fix it myself. I'm dependent upon outside contractors. But I also don't want my own pipes to freeze, so I have a lot of skin in the game as well. So, yeah, you can't have people doing that. You can't have open oven doors. But you also have to understand that sometimes the first go around, you may not be able to get a contractor in there and get it done. But the ordinance doesn't recognize that.

There are a lot They're all legitimate to me. I I appreciate all. At least we learned something today that there is a summons and complaint which asked for a certain dollar amount as a fine. At least that is something.

Believe that is

correct. Believe that correct. Yes.

And that Muni Court doesn't seem to be very busy these days.

It was hard to find somebody who could answer a question and I couldn't even find anybody to take my paperwork. It was really something Alderman.

It was funny you mentioned that because back when I practiced and I practiced for many years although not the last twenty, Muni Court was a cauldron of activity when you go in there back in those days. So right now it's the hallways, the waiting area, all empty basically.

Take a walk. It's shocking.

It's very interesting. Thank

you being here today. How is your membership divided? Do you divide them up by all the medic districts at all?

That is a question that I wish I could answer for you. I don't know. I can't even tell you the division between people who have properties in the city of Milwaukee and those who don't. They're. Okay. They're all members.

Well, because you know, you talk about understanding some of this more. I'd sit down with the landlords in my district anytime. Anytime and what my district like several other either closer downtown central city districts, have a different makeup of the amount of rental properties in districts and parts of my neighborhood are 70% rental. Would you want to come to one of our meetings? I want to specifically talk to the landlords in my district first and I can don't talk

have a nameplate. Can you remind me

your name?

Jose Perez, 12th District.

Near South Side.

So I'll talk to the entire group if if necessary but I do want to start with the landlords in my district. We can walk the neighborhood. Sure.

Yeah. I just want to be clear what the what the point of this is so you can convey it

back real quick on that. Yeah. To I'd like to offer that meeting from 15 district landlords as well.

15th District element?

That's the heart of the Great North Side. That is. Yeah. You. As is Alderman Jackson. It's just like the other the other heart of the Great North Side.

It's never become a downtown. Yeah.

I I'm going to follow-up on appreciate that opportunity.

And just to convey back to your membership that the whole and and for people in the listing, the thousands that are listening online here. The the whole goal here is to get landlords attention because there are some large landlords for whom the fee schedules and the penalty schedules that DNS hands out are drops in the bucket. That's a cost of doing business versus trying to get that contractor to come out in the middle of the night when it's below zero and the heat fails. They just don't bother because they'll absorb the fine. When you have a $149,000,000 in revenue coming in, a $200 fine, a thousand dollar fine from D and S is water off a duck's back.

Just the cost of doing business and it doesn't cause anyone to modify their business plan whatsoever. To a small operator yeah that is a big hit. And it will get their attention. Absolutely. But to large operators is irrelevant. So we wanted to put mechanism in place that would get the attention of big operators like the stairs, the high groves and all the other corporate and corporate landlords that have moved into Milwaukee. Are any of them members of your organization?

I believe some of them are.

Yes. Okay. And that's point.

Could you please let us

know? Absolutely.

Part of

that organization. Yeah.

Mister chair, I mean, I I I get what you're saying on top of that but part of the problem we're having is that we feel like we're managing these properties. We don't we can't. I don't know how often I I I do neighborhood walks or get complaints from constituents and I can't believe the condition some of these properties are in that a landlord can collect the rent and not and this isn't everyone. We've got some good landlords. I don't wanna do too broad of a brush though, but I've seen enough where I don't understand how these guys aren't walking in to their properties and saying this is unacceptable. I need to repair it or in some cases evictions are necessary. I get it. But it just seems like we're managing these properties and we shouldn't be.

And we understand there's issues with tenants. And I'm sure that's what hear we if we ever went to one of your meetings. There are issues with tenants. But the bottom line is anyone who has gone it who goes into the landlord business, that's the business they've chosen. And if they don't know going in that there can be issues with tenants, there can be behavioral issues, tenants can cause damage, tenants can destroy personal property, tenants cannot pay their rent, the eviction process is expensive, it's lengthy. When they leave, they throw the refrigerator out the window or take it with them. We understand all that. But this is the business they've chosen to enter into. They could have gone into the restaurant business. It could have gone into the plumbing business.

They've chosen to become commercial landlords and comes with that a certain responsibility to the public because the public is the ones calling us and then we're required to act in the interest that the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of Milwaukee. So that's the context here. We understand the challenges especially small landlords face. The big landlords can institutionalize all those problems. They have the eviction department and they have the property recovery department. They have the clean out department. You don't see the owners of the big operations out there rolling up their sleeves with their loading up their pickup truck. No, of course not. They're huge. They're institutionalized.

They have bureaucracy. That's who we want to get the attention of because they're so big that they can afford to ignore all the requirements in the building code if they choose to. And I might also add to every landlord listening out there, there's one way to be absolutely immune from the reach of any of these ordinances, and that is remain in compliance.

Just take care of your property. That's all we ask.

I have the same problem that you have. The only issues that come into my office are for bad tenants. I can have somebody who's got 100, 200, 500 units. They don't call me up and say, I have four ninety nine gray tenants.

That's right. I I we we actually do recognize that. Absolutely.

Yeah. So I understand and I sympathize with that because people don't call you up to say I got a great landlord. You're not going to hear that.

No, I guess I don't.

And that's the issue. When you have a 40 unit building, it only takes one or two problem tenants to really destroy the character of that building and the good tenants leave, the ones that pay on time leave, the ones that keep their property, that keep their apartment in good condition leave because don't they want to live in chaos and disorder. And so now you start replacing the good tenants with more problem tenants because they're the old because a good tenant will not want to come in. There were other things we looked at a grading system and thought oh my god go to it like the restaurants do. I said now that would be problematic in my mind but that's still on the table there are probably members of the council that are interested in doing a grading system like at a restaurant a b c and d or f.

For for the for the landowners?

Yeah. Mhmm.

Well, we used to work when I first got elected before the state took away was you had to have a license to to rent, and the license was for a year or three years. If you were a good landlord, you got it three years. If you were a landlord negligent, you got it for one year. And it would be subject to a drug deal, a drug bust, drugs. It was always it was always related to they did some type of legal activity at the house.

So we did a pilot in my district, and it was successful. We were getting better results, and the state took it away. So we've tried, and now that's why that organization was so against me when I was running because I wanted the ability to have landlords keep their properties compliant. So that got reversed and taken away. So this is where we are now. So we're gonna continue to do what we can, And we would love to work with you and provide as much help and support for those good landlords, but we would also, in turn, ask you for us for your support and for the bad landlords.

I think that's reasonable because we need to have the ability to deal with both sides of the problem. Mhmm. If either side of the equation isn't working, there needs to be an ability to people have to understand that if they don't do it the right way that they're opportunities. Mhmm. That's just reasonable.

Okay. We do have some alders online. Alder Alderman Taylor?

Yes. Thank you so much. Yes. I've attended a couple of the sessions that that she's held. I'm sorry. You didn't remind me of your name. I apologize. Christian. Christian. Yes. In fragrant language. You. And they were really good sessions. I do I agree a 100% with what you guys are saying and with the legislation. I don't know if I can sign on as a cosponsor, not being on a committee, but I definitely would like to.

You can. I think it's oh, well then, yep, if you could add me as a cosponsor I'll it. Because I think there there does definitely need to be some regulations because we don't want just housing. This is our year of housing. We don't want just housing for people, but we need acceptable housing, housing that's being taken care of as it should be. So I appreciate the legislation, and thank you for letting me sign on as a co sponsor.

Excellent. Okay. If there's no other comments, we will Alderman Jackson moves. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Alderman Samper moves to amend the file by introducing the two well by introducing the substitute on file 251773 and also moves to amend the file by introducing the substitute on file 252,240 hearing no objections to order sub A's before us on both items. Hold both items to the call of the chair and hearing no objection so ordered. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, guys.

Thank Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you. Okay. Moving on to Item three, file 252,012, substitute resolution relating to a minor modification to the detailed plan development known as St. Rita Square to allow additional building signage on the existing building located at 728 East Pleasant Street on the North side of East Pleasant Street east of North Van Buren in the 3rd Aldermanic District. Yes. All right.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Tanya Fonseca, Department of City Development. I'm here to talk about Saint Rita Square today and the applicant team is joining me. So the subject site was rezoned to a detailed plan development in 2018 to allow the construction of a senior living facility as well as a new church for the St. Rita congregation. And the senior living facility includes a six story building with independent living, assisted living, and high acuity assisted living and memory care.

This is a minor modification relating to allowable signage for the facility. And currently, the DPD allows signage near the main entrance drop off area along Pleasant and at the corner of Van Buren and Pleasant. This minor mod would approve new projecting signage that will be placed on the West Van Buren Street side facade of the building. The sign will approve a new oh, sorry. The sign will follow the provisions of the Milwaukee code of ordinances with respect to not projecting more than four feet into the public right of way and being no less than 10 feet above the adjacent sidewalk side area plan and is consistent consistent with with the the recommendations recommendations of of this this plan.

Plan. The site is also within the 3rd Aldermanic District and Alderman Brower is supportive of this file. City Plan Commission heard this item at its April 27 meeting and unanimously recommended approval and representatives from Saint Rita Square and the signage company are available for questions.

Okay. Well, this sounds pretty non controversial. So, I don't think we need to hear from you. You're here. So, Alderman. So Alderman Smiker moves recommend. Alderman Jackson moves to recommend approval hearing the So ordered. Thank you. Thank you. Item four, file two five one eight six seven. A substitute ordinance relating to the change in zoning from industrial heavy IH to industrial mixed I'm for the property located at 2156 South 4th Street and 2166 South 4th Street on the East side of South 4th Street, Southwest Beecher Street in the 12th Aldermanic District.

All right. Good morning again. So now we are within the Harbor District. This site, 2156 South Forth, is currently zoned for industrial heavy, and it is within the Harbor District Riverwalk Spas or the zoning overlay for the Riverwalk. This site has a multistory building with a surface parking lot and a city owned lot to the south is currently vacant.

The Drummond Company owns 2156 South 4th Street and is requesting a change in zoning to industrial mixed to allow a wider mix of uses within the existing building on their site. The multistory building no longer functions as a heavy industrial facility. And they've received interest in the space within the building for uses such as schools, daycares, and studios and office.

This was a school, wasn't it?

It was St. Anthony's.

Yeah, right. Thought so. Okay.

About half of the building is currently occupied by a daycare facility currently and that was approved by our Board of Zoning Appeals. This zoning change also includes the city owned vacant site to the south at 2166 South 4th Street for continuity. And it is anticipated that this site will be utilized in some fashion as part of the Riverwalk extension. The sites are located within the Harbor District water and land use plan and the proposal is consistent with that plan. This is also within the 12th Aldermanic District and President Perez is here if he has any remarks on the file.

He's not stated any objections to date. City Plan Commission held a public hearing during the April 27 meeting and recommended approval of the subject file. And Bill Cinsky from Drummond Company is here if you have any questions, including a presentation to share a little bit more.

All impressed. I have no objection. The floor is yours.

Good morning, Chairman Bowen and committee members. Bill Cinsky with the Drummond Company. So this doesn't one thing I want to make sure you know, it doesn't exclude industrial use. So it just opens it up more to other uses. They still have to get permits, go through the permitting process. So there still will be control. But the likely users of course aren't heavy in industry. So the daycare has done very well. I don't think anybody is here from Ebenezer but a great location for them. So these would be users such as some specialty schools, possibly offices.

There's some photos in the packet of the build up that Drone Company has done. It's terrific.

Okay. No, looks like I'm familiar with the building. Everybody is familiar with the building. You've never driven on the interstate.

Mr. Chair, it's kind of tucked away and it's difficult to get at because four streets a one way.

Yeah. Is. Yeah.

Yeah. So you you gotta take the long way to get there but See,

hard to get to.

Yeah. It's right on the river and you know, I'm I'm in I have no objection to the zoning change in order for the building to be maximized to Okay. Its

This is technically a public hearing so we'll open a public hearing. Anybody anybody here wish to testify on this item? No one stepping forward till the public hearing is closed. No other questions or Alderman Spike moves the recommended passage. Hearing no objection so far. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Alright. Moving on to item five, file 251,606. The sub to Gordon as related to the changes on from single family residential RS two to multi family residential REM three for the property located at 11919 West Bradley Road to allow multi family residential development on a portion of the site located on the South Side of West Bradley Road east of North 124th Street in the 9th Aldermanic District. All right.

Okay. Great. So the subject site we are reviewing today is approximately 15 acres in size and currently zoned for single family residential. The site currently includes a church which will remain. The applicant Scott Crawford Incorporated is requesting a change in zoning to multifamily residential, RM3 specifically to allow a portion of the site to be developed as housing.

The church will remain as will continue to be an allowable use in RM3 zoning. Since this is a base zoning change, specific plans are not part of the zoning change file. However, the applicant will share an overview of their concept plans in a moment. Just a quick overview though, they are proposing 100 units of housing for seniors that will be within a series of townhouse style flat buildings. The RM3 design standards will apply to the residential buildings and the Board of Zoning appeals will be necessary to allow for multiple principal buildings on the site.

Future phases of development could include a new school attached to the church and a memory care facility. This site is within the Northwest Side area plan and is consistent with that plan. The plan encourages residential and other compatible uses along commercial corridors and in areas where resident excuse me, in areas where retail and commercial activity as a primary use are no longer supported by the surrounding residential densities. Residential land use policies also recommend locating residential land uses adjacent to compatible nonresidential uses. The site is within the 9th Aldermanic District and Alderman Taylor has expressed support for this file and City Plan Commission held a public hearing regarding this file on April 27.

Alderman Taylor was present and testified in support of the file and City Plan Commission unanimously recommended approval. The development team is here to give a brief presentation and also can touch on community engagement that has already been done.

Okay. Floor is yours. Please identify yourself and name and address, please.

Sounds good. Good morning, everybody. Name is Marcus Morgan. I'm the vice president of development at Scott Crawford.

Okay.

So at Scott Crawford, our mission is to build holistic communities through financially environmental environmentally sustainable development. So part of the reason that we feel this development is very important is because not only are we adding housing to a 15 acre vacant site, but we're also in partner strong partnership with Kingdom Faith Fellowship Church. We have pastor Randolph here. So this organization is already deeply rooted in the community, so it allows us to expand the impact of kind of what's already existing. Our proposal is actually 101 units, so we and the unit mix will be spread between one, two, and three bedrooms.

We believe that this allows us to it gives the senior wait. Hold on one second. Yep. So, yeah, so this creates universal housing for seniors that are all kind of going through different stages. So whether they're downsizing, living alone, or still supporting family members, we kind of have an option for everybody.

As far as our intentions around, like, the income income requirements, we wanted to intentionally be a mixed income income property. So we are proposing 80% market rate, 20% work workforce housing, and the thought behind that is to maintain long term financial sustainability, provide access to quality housing for seniors, and also to avoid any overconcentration of any one particular income group. This development also addresses a lot of the needs that we're facing currently in Milwaukee, the growing senior population with limited new housing options, lack of quality modern units designed specifically for seniors with private entry, the need for stable mixed income communities, as well as the opportunity to activate underutilized land for an existing community anchor. So those are just some some of our plans. The reason that the rezoning is needed is because, I mean, obviously, single is is currently zoned for single family housing and it's it's it's not sustainable for us to develop that large of a site for

seniors. So churches are nonconforming use or churches are permitted in our

Churches are permitted.

Okay. And then just kind of speaking of some of our long term plans on the site, outside of the housing, housing will be phase one. So our plan will kind of be get that portion of development started under construction sooner than later. But then other phases that we also mentioned would be somewhere between a sixteen-eighty unit memory care center as well as a build out of the existing church. They currently have a large gymnasium on the side their church, so we can kind of build off of that space. We can add additional classroom space and kind of build off of the gymnasium as well. So those are kind of some of our long

term plans. So the church is a school as well?

Yes. Okay. Yeah. So the church, like, we'll kind of do, like, an addition off of the church to build the school that way, kind of connecting connecting it through the gymnasium.

Pastor?

Good morning to everybody. Good morning. I want to echo my colleague here and say how excited we are to be partnering or cosponsoring this project. I think, again, one of the most important aspects of what we're doing is addressing the need for memory care and that's in our phase two. You may or may not be aware that one hundred and twenty thousand people in the state are living with Alzheimer's right now.

So this is not an optional building project. This is an infrastructure project. This is something that, you know, essentially will address the needs that are not coming but that are. And so one of the things that I'm most excited about as it relates to this project is not only the community investment but also the fact that it allows us to address this population and allow them to age in place instead of downsizing and then having to be scattered in all of these various places throughout our community.

How long has the church been there?

We've been at this site for two years. Did

you so you acquired this location two years ago?

Yes, sir.

15 acres, really?

Yes, sir.

Very good. That's a big chunk of land. Absolutely. So was the was the church so you built the church two years ago?

No. The church is in an operation for eighteen years. So we acquired this particular building two years ago.

You were in another location? Yes, sir. I see. Okay. Very good. How big is your congregation?

About 250.

Okay. Very good. Alright. Any questions? Yeah. Alden Snapper.

So, pastor, you moved your church. I've been to your church. Yes, sir. You moved? Yep. I I haven't been in two years. Thank you. Yes, sir. Congratulations.

This looks this looks great. Okay.

This looks great. You got

a swimming pool there?

Was that a lake?

No. That's a that's a desert river that runs adjacent to the property, but, yeah, there's no lake for sure.

Okay. Do you need some napkins? Okay.

Sorry. Thank

you. What? Okay. Very good. Please, gentlemen. Tim Wlas, Angberg Anderson Architects. We're here just to give you the plans or go for Very any good.

Felipe Arnelas with Angberg Anderson Architects as well.

Okay. Very good. Okay. Excellent. This is also requires a public hearing so we will open this matter to public testimony. Is anyone here willing interested in testifying providing any input? No. Oh yeah. Okay. We also have all the women Taylor I'm I

project. They brought it to me when they first moved over there, and I was excited and just patiently waiting for them to come forward with this. So I'm I'm really happy that we're at this point now. And I know it was mentioned too by Tanya that I did support it during CPC, at which time I mentioned that our district has 13 senior homes. But what makes this one really special, and being being our fourteenth month is that it's bringing that memory care aspect to it.

And so thank you so much, to pastor Randolph for that. Seeing that need and addressing that need in our area. One of the things that I hope, for I good good that's I always call think us the district of opportunity. Mhmm. But what that means is that we are a place where people can have opportunities, but also a place where we can support individuals for a better life.

And so a memory care center that will provide support for its residents and support for its family, I think definitely speaks to that idea of creating a better life for individuals. And so I'm appreciative of that. Also, I'm appreciative of the style because we have lit a lot of seniors and many times, I guess, because we categorize 55, not knowing 55 still has a lot of energy. It's very energetic, physically can move about and and are still working. Having direct entry still gives you that privacy feel, but you still have that community feel.

So I appreciate the design as well. I think that's really important to respect that seniors, although they may want to be more involved in the community, but they still need some privacy as well. So I I appreciate the project in its entirety, and I appreciate them coming forward with it, especially in an area where was once designed for a lot of retail and commercial use, but has been sitting for quite some time. And so to have this kind of use come forward in that area, I think, is is a plus for the 9th District. So thank you so much for taking this on and utilizing that 16 acres in this very positive way to to be an asset to District 9.

Okay. Very good. No other testimony. We'll close the public hearing. Any other questions or comments on committee? Mister chair. Oliver Stamper who's the recommended passage? Hearing no objection. So are good luck, guys.

Thank you. Congratulations.

Let me

get an invite, pastor.

Alright. Moving on to item six, file 252,191, resolution approving amendment number eight to the project plan for tax incremental district Number 56 Erie Erie Jefferson Street to allow donations to tax incremental district number 89 Garfield And North and tax incremental district number one zero six McKinley School in the 4th Aldermanic District. Wow. All right.

Good morning Chair Baumann, committee members. Alyssa Remington with the Department of As City you just stated, this is the eighth amendment to TID 56. It was here not that long ago. This one though is a strict donation amendment. There are no new project costs.

We've done this in the past where surplus increment is taken from well performing TIDs and allocated toward TIDs that may not generate enough increment to cover their debt by the end of their life. So just a quick recap, TID fifty six was created back in 2004 primarily for the purpose of facilitating river walk development, public infrastructure development and streets, plazas such as that. It was amended seven times since 2004 and we have just under $75,000,000 in approved project costs primarily for Riverwalk construction, again public infrastructure improvements plazas, but also donations to other districts as well. The total revenue received from this district as of 2025 is $77,664,000 and it continues to perform according to our projections. That said, this TID is in a position to provide increment to two districts that are struggling a bit to pay off their project costs.

So the first district we would like to donate to is District 89, better known as Garfield And North. It was created back in 2016 to support the redevelopment of the city owned former Garfield School into affordable housing and then it also included the construction of a mixed use affordable housing development on adjacent properties as you can see here. Specifically that project plan comprised two major project components. The first was the adaptive reuse of the Garfield School into housing units for families earning less than 60% of the area median income. The second part of that project was the demolition of buildings along 4th And North and the construction of then the mixed use building that you see here that included 41 housing units and 8,000 square feet of commercial space, 6,000 of which is occupied by the Black Holocaust Museum.

The TID provided $1,400,000 to assist in funding the total project costs and construction was completed in 2018 and property values have increased a little bit more slowly than projected at the time that the district was created. The district has generated about $620,000 in incremental revenue and we are looking to recover $1,500,000 by the in the next twenty years according to our projections. It's unlikely to generate sufficient increment to cover that debt. The second district we're looking to donate to is TAE 106 or the McKinley School, which was created back in 2020 to assist in the adaptive reuse of the McKinley School located at 2001 West Vleet Street. This included the creation of 40 affordable rental units in the former school and then also four single family new construction homes located along Vleet Street to offer new home ownership opportunities.

That district provided a total of $950,000 mostly for environmental remediation, but also for site development, infrastructure and construction costs related to the development of those single family homes. Construction was complete in 2023 and we generated about $156,000 in incremental revenue to date. Project costs remaining to be recovered though are $1,300,000 and while that district is producing increment, it is producing it just slightly slower than needed to cover its debt by the end of its life. So in an effort to protect the city from any future dips right in the housing market, we would like to amend TAD 56 since it has the capacity to do so districts at this time. In total, we're looking to donate $1,514,000 to TID eighty nine and $1,294,000 to TID sixty I'm sorry, 106 in the next year.

All the same? Yes.

Have those single families been sold? They have all four.

They're all

like it. Yep. They are

all like It was

great. What about occupying of the building? Is that full as well?

We have the McKinley School is at about 94%. This is just in conversations, right, with the developer. And then the Griot and the Garfield are at 74% occupied and 81% occupied.

Yeah, and we put a brand new Street there.

Right. Yes.

So what will be the balance after you pay it off?

Well, once we pay this off, there will be no balance.

That's all.

We'll have yep, we would fully recover its debt and then allow that TD to yeah. Exactly. And it is it is producing just modestly, right? But, you know, provide an opportunity in the future to use

that government.

And and and the developers has has stated that renovating that school was the toughest.

There was nobody would do it. Have they ever Nobody would do it.

The McKinley or the Garfield? The McKinley? McKinley. McKinley. Yeah.

The reason This is really an example of how the remediation of a

million dollars just to demo it. Remember

that? Yeah. The TID 56 only encompasses four properties. Right. Hansen's Landing, Front, Domus, and the Marine Terminal Loft. So three condo projects and one high end rental project. And Hansen's Landing And Harborfront is the highest assessed residential property in the state of Wisconsin. Really?

Yes. And what's their address?

It's right it's right on the end.

Erie Street.

I I I 5

Right by right by Fresh High?

No. We're going closer to like the Home Bridge if you're going to the 3rd Ward.

Oh, Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Think it's

assessed at about a 120

They're condos. So owner occupied.

About a 130 units, I believe. Something Assessed values is over a $100,000,000. I believe.

That TID is generating over 6,000,000 in increment every year from those four properties.

Yes. And that allows us to fund central city projects which have less market less market potential.

This is the second time we've used this TID to donate.

I thought we did a seven time.

We've amended the doc we've amended this TID seven times but we have only donated to other districts once before in those seven amendments if that makes sense.

We have used this to do all sorts of infrastructure improvements in the 3rd Ward area. Yeah. A streetscaping protected bike lanes. Mhmm. The boulevard on Milwaukee Street was funded through this TID. So, yes, this has been an an engine of progress and an engine of investment.

Correct.

Has one done better than this one?

Yes, Park East maybe and Possibly.

Yes, I'd have to look at that. I'd have to actually look at the numbers. Yes, the beer line TID was also very successful.

It's successful. Well, good work. Thank you.

I mean, as long as property values continue to increase these are basically perpetual motion machines.

Right. This one is reaching the end of its expenditure period as of September. No new projects can be added. It's one reason why we are here

today. Right.

Very good. So Alderman Jackson moves to recommend adoption and hearing no objection so ordered. Moving on to Item seven, file 252,192, resolution approving your project plan and development agreement authorizing expenditure and creating tax increment incremental district number 133 at 2711 West Wall Street in the 4th Aldermanic District. All right. Larry. Hi. Oh, hi. I'm new. Okay.

I am Diana Kanter with Department of City Development. I was hired last May and have started doing TIF. Okay. I was I'm doing other compliance work for DCD as well

Okay.

On some other programs. So this is sharing.

Just gotta make it full screen. Yeah.

That

what we're looking for? Okay. My year anniversary is coming up, but this is my first TID to present to you your illustrious body. TID 1332711WestWells is located on the Southwest Corner Of 27th And Wells. To set the stage for the location, 27th Street used to have a streetcar run, which is why there is a build of large number of commercial buildings.

In about 1947 Harold and Laura Dvorak purchased 2711 West Wells to open a hospital with their own funds. They built the nine story building that you see in the forefront in the 1960s. Then in 1975, they purchased the Tower Theater and they remodeled the Tower Theater for use as an employee cafeteria and admin offices to support the hospital. In about 1993, Milwaukee County purchased the campus to use it for medical and social services purposes before selling it in 2015 when they moved out to the medical grounds in Wauwatosa. In 2016, property.

Direction. Is The screen, one is looking in eastward. The doctor's property hospital is in the forefront, the nine story building. In the middle of the block is the Liberty Tower, which is a five story office tower.

Where did it get that name? I'm sorry? Where did it get the name Liberty Tower?

I'm not sure.

I never heard it used. That that I I live two blocks away from here for twenty seven years. I never heard it described

as Liberty that I saw from when they did an architectural inventory from the historic for historic purposes

Mhmm.

Called it the Liberty Tower. Tower.

Yes.

Call it the Baumann Tower for all

I care.

Be careful.

He might. You might just have heard

The picture is looking west on Wells at the Tower Theater, which is not part of this project, but is part of that former campus, which is why I'm just giving the context. This is the proposed TID boundary. Lot 3 is where the Doctors Hospital, Liberty Tower and Tower Theater are located. Lots 1 And 2 will be used for about 125 parking stalls. I'm going to give the next two slides over to Pat O'Brien from Milwaukee Development Corporation.

Morning. Thanks for Good having morning. We're a nonprofit civic based developer. We're an affiliate of the chamber. We've been in business for fifty one years supporting the city.

Our thing is to do catalytic community based projects in the city that to support city efforts that the city can't do and the private sector won't do because there's just not the dollars in it. So a number of other projects, downtown area, the Grand Avenue, they reconstituted the avenue, were both projects that we did, the old Park East Freeway sites with Barry Mandel, Yankee Hill Apartments. We're involved in the Milwaukee Theater District, helped support some financing for the Bucks Arena, the Bradley Center to help buy up some land to keep it out of the hands of speculation. And in the last seven years or eight years ago, we were basically a downtown development agency. Maybe eight years ago, we actually moved actively into the neighborhoods.

And so we do a lot of support work and financing short term financing for low income family homes, single family homes and also development projects like housing, etcetera. And we support the emerging developer program and other catalytic community based. So we do things from $50,000 to $3,000,000 We help support the schools, UCC's early learning center and Doctor. Fuller's new high school and junior high school. So we provided financing for that, bridge financing.

So this project, 2,711, we've got a lot of good help on this, but we're going to own this project. Bear Development is one of our development partners in ownership. EUA, Baker Tilly, Weegan, Mandel, Cross Management Services, C. G. Schmidt is like very likely to be our contractor. So a lot of Graef is involved and Fit Investment, which is a newer company, Mike Latatoro, he's supporting the project as one of our fellows.

Got

you. Near Westside Partners, Jewish Family Services will provide internal services to us and General Capital Group, David Weiss has been a consultant for us and helps us out and get through things. So the project itself is 124 units of senior housing. You can see the description there. The senior housing, 30%, 5080% units is what I call on the low end of the low income housing spectrum and we also have social services and community services to be provided on-site as part of this project.

Veterans, people with disabilities, both mental and physical will be part of this project. We don't expect us to reach that 80% of market rate because the area just won't support that. So we're estimating somewhere around 70%. But we've got room to grow. We hope to close July 22 and we have a 14 construction start, so we hope to be up and open for leasing sometime in the 2027.

So who will be the you will be the developer?

Yes. We own 70 right now it's 79% of the we're the developer and the owner with the equity partners.

Okay. So do you basically have title to the property at this point?

Yeah. We will.

Have a

purchase agreement And with

Rick Wiggin currently owns the real estate?

Yes. Okay.

So you will step in in a developer role and he will basically step out of the deal in essence?

Yes. From a legal perspective, but he'll be Rick's working hard to make this project happen from him.

Okay. He won't okay, got it. All right. Excellent. That's good. Any further?

It'll be a $50,700,000 investment in a property that's been vacant for about ten years. The capital stack is listed. It's anywhere from our first mortgage to state and federal low income housing tax credits and historic tax credits, including money from the equity partner, deferred developer fees, seller note, reinvestment income and a pending home ARP. You should see that hopefully at a council cycle or two out from Mario's team. It will be up to $2,600,000 developer finance TIF up to twenty five years at a 2% interest rate.

There will be a cost savings provision, human resources requirements of 40% RPP and 25% SPE and 20% of the units will also be set aside for residents of the 53233 zip code through the anti displacement neighborhood preference policy.

This is actually in a 5328 zip code.

I'm sorry 5328.

Oh, okay.

Sorry. My bad. I've been doing a lot of compliance work on that program recently.

Okay. Very good. Any questions or comments on this?

No, this looks good.

This is a strong project. This a very welcome project. Building has been basically vacant for years. Well, over ten years and even before the county sold it, it was still vacant. So this is indeed great progress and the corners of 27th in Wisconsin and 27th in Wells are finally seeing revitalization which is which is extremely extremely beneficial. So any event, call over to Stanford, moves it right in

the middle. Mister Chair, real

quick.

Yeah. Hey. Have you guys is this how how close is this to the near Westside Partners?

Across the street.

Yeah. You didn't mention them. They didn't

Oh, they were in the

Did you mention them?

They're in the slide.

Okay. They're our partner. Yep.

Gotcha. Okay. As long as y'all partnering over there. Absolutely. Alright. Cool. No no objections. Move approval.

Hammer moves approval. Hearing no objections are ordered. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Moving on to item eight. File 252195. Resolution authorizing redevelopment authority of the city of Milwaukee to enter into a lease with ABM and Industries Group LLC for 634 for 634 North 5th Street in the 4th Aldermanic District. This is the parking lot, surface parking lot right behind Vail Phyllis Plaza, correct?

You got it. Thank you. Chair Baumann, committee members Dave Miski with the Department of City Development. Yes, sir. As Chair Baumann pointed out, this is the parking lot just south of the Vail Phyllis Plaza, still owned by the city of Milwaukee Brackham specifically. So this we did an RFQ very recently to engage a potentially a new tenant there to occupy that space and lease those parking spaces out. We did receive a handful of proposals selection team picked ABM Industrial Group to continue to manage that parking lot. So they do pay rent, a monthly rent. They do have a few businesses in and around that area that do also occupy a few of those spaces on a daily occurrence as well. So I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Just to

be clear for the record and for everybody watching on TV, this site has been one of the potential sites for the so called convention hotel that has been the subject of some discussion and debate

and

controversy. We have the ability to terminate this lease at will basically?

We do. It's a five year term but we do have ninety day notices both sides do.

So this site can remain definitely in play as a potential hotel?

Absolutely. Yep for sure.

Okay very good. Hearing no other questions or comments. All inspector moves the recommended option. Hearing objection. Order. Yes. Item nine, file two five two one nine four. Resolution to facilitate expansion of the Milwaukee Public Schools, Doctor. Martin Luther King Junior Playfield by authorizing conveyance of two redevelopment authority of the city of Milwaukee owned vacant lots to the city of Milwaukee in trust for the board of school directors in the six automatic districts sponsored by Aldwoman Cox. Aldwoman Cox, you want to take the lead here or let mister Biskey go forward?

She's no longer.

Oh. Proceed, please. Sorry.

Yeah, very quickly. The Martin Luther King School has four properties that they comprises their entire property. Two of them are Rackham Tour City. They want to do a reconstruction of their playground this summer, MPS Rec. They've done about 40 different playgrounds to date. This is on their cohort list currently. To simplify things, it makes a lot of sense to convey the two Rackham properties, which were acquired in the 1980s to the city so that they have no issues when they apply for permits to do construction this summer. So it's merely just a conveyance from Rackham to the city in title.

Okay, very good. Any questions or comments on this item? No, sir. Hearing none, Alder Van Jackson move the recommended option. Hearing no objection so order. Thank you. Moving on to this mystery file here. Why don't okay. We'll we'll get you guys. Item 10.

File 260026. Resolution approving the issuance of revenue bonds by the public finance authority for the benefit of Bedford Arbor Ridge LLC and Bedford St. James LLC to finance the acquisition of a 38 unit multi family residential rental property located 9607972 North 107th Street and known as the Arbor Ridge Apartments and two, A 236 unit multi family residential rental property located at 10300 West Fountain Avenue known as Saint James Place each of which is located in the 9th Aldermanic District. Is there a substitute on this?

Yes. It's in the final.

Okay. What does the substitute do?

Yeah. Mary Shanning, deputy city attorney, the substitute before you, changes the date of the hearing that we are required to have as part of this file. The notice did not get out in time for it to be at Z and D. So it'd be held in the city clerk's office by telecommuting. What is this?

What are we doing here today?

Sure. I can give you some background. Basically what's happening here, is not a city project. The city does not have any dollars involved or any property involved. But what has happened is that the developers who are looking to acquire these properties and redevelop them are seeking conduit bonds through a federal program.

They're administered through the public finance authority which is an agency of the state of Wisconsin in order to have those bonds issued and have tax exempt status. They need to seek the approval of the local governing body in which the projects are located. As part of that, there is a required public hearing which is called a Tefra hearing. Tefra stands for tax equity and fiscal responsibility act of 1982. It basically allows the public to come in and and make comment on the project. The bonds only get issued if there is public support for the infusion of funds into the

we have the authority to veto this project or this acquisition. These are existing buildings, correct?

These are existing buildings. The veto would be of the it would just not seek it would not give them the approval for the bonds. Right. But doesn't necessarily mean that they wouldn't get financing either They're

seeking these bonds for a reason and I suspect because it's lowering their borrowing cost, correct?

And so well, I'm not going to answer questions about their actual financing, the bond counsel for the project Ray Jones is on the teams. Well I'm very

curious because the local alder person very explicitly did not sponsor this file.

And that is the reason why it was brought to Z and D instead of just having the tougher hearing which is what we typically do if you know there's automatic support we do a tougher hearing outside of committee and then just bring it to council for final approval. But given the opposition by all the women Taylor we wanted to make sure she had an opportunity to speak it to all of you as well. And then as I said the developer is represented here as well.

Okay well all the women Taylor give us your state your case because I'm inclined to support the local alder person on this.

Thank you so much. So.

Hold on a minute. Alderman Stanford.

I want to be clear. So. What is it what are they requesting.

They're requesting approval by the city of the issuance of the bonds because that's a requirement for them to get before they can get bonds issued through this agency of the state.

How does it help the city? Doesn't. How what what is our

It doesn't. But how does

it help us? It doesn't.

So so the bond the bond sister the the financing program is an effort to get funds instilled into local communities to private entities without any input or out any dollars from the local community. It is a funding mechanism for development but they only get issued if they are approved by the local government. Is why this approval.

Is from

a local alder person. I think she's most well versed on the subject matter.

Have we done this?

Also, alderwoman Taylor.

Have we done this?

Yes. Thank you so much. So, yes, I I have two luxury apartment complexes that are in our district. And when this came to me, it said that they were looking to make it affordable. So having these two luxury apartments when we're struggling for luxury apartments and we're trying to put more luxury apartments into our area, and that's being challenged.

We certainly don't wanna lose the two that we have based on a developer who was not local to the area coming in and taking what we do have and turning it into, affordable units. So, these units are awful there. So they're they're not suffering in any way, but they're they're full units. Part of the Arbel Ridge is half of it is owned housing and the other half is rental units, but they're very well managed. And so we don't want to see any changes happen to something that is working well for our district.

Got you. Who is, okay, these

are two LLCs. Who are the who are the principles of the legal side?

So, I would direct those questions to the bond council who is on the phone. I, this is not a city project so I don't have all the background and details. He is How could

we possibly vote on this one? So how even know who the

Yeah. What's your They have a representation on on the in the meeting.

What's your representative? The guy from out of state.

Yeah. I'm I'm representing to you to explain why this has to come before this committee and goes to the council and why the city has a public hearing. But because this isn't a city project, I don't have the details of what is planned or what is proposed or who is behind it. But they do have representation.

Well as this ever we ever done this as a city.

Accepted these bonds yes

for for developer out of town developer.

Whether they're out of town I can't tell you every tougher hearing we've had but we've certainly had these hearings and approved them.

And no representative of the I

don't remember.

Of of the ownership group is here. Now they're online. They're on. On. Counsel. But I hope nobody from the no nobody saw fit to come and talk to us directly

about the demand. Right. Did they meet the older woman?

I believe they've had conversations with older woman Taylor. I've better had more talk.

No. No. I I will know the group has not. And their legal representation has emailed, but the actual owners have not had conversation with them.

So do we have standing to take this vote or it has to go to this hearing in Jim or Zarzaurski's office?

The the hearing is so that the public can can state any comments or objections they have. Ultimately, it goes to the council and the council approves whether to. So, can. Approve these or not.

We we can't take a vote on this today because it would be premature.

You can take a vote today or you cannot and then just wait until council but it will it will go to counsel for either up or down approval. And that's yeah I mean it's part of the process that

we would

go through whenever one of these applications You come

don't have to answer this in public but it would be good to know if we have any legal exposure depending on what we do or is that completely within our ambit?

It is completely up to you whether you want to accept these, you know, the issuance of these bonds as something good for them.

So the legal matter we can vote no for any reason or no reason. Correct. Okay. Whoever is online from the borrower, chime in.

Good afternoon. Good morning, Mr. Chair. This is Ray Jones. I'm the bond counsel also have Troy Thomas and Nicholas Artunian with the Post Real Estate Group who are online with me. And we'd be glad to talk for just a few minutes about what the goal of the project is and certainly the city attorney can. Today I'm sitting in South Carolina and as you know the properties are in Northwest Milwaukee and the gentleman who represent the coach real estate group actually work all over the country. I can't tell you where they sit today.

What real estate group could you could so that the principles of these two LLC just who exactly?

It's the post the post real estate group. Post real estate? Post

Post real estate. Okay.

And where it would if it would please the chair and the committee, I can give you a little bit more information to at least enable you to make a full and complete conversation around this. Am I able to share my screen, Chris?

Go ahead. Okay.

Just be a moment.

Yep. They haven't talked to us. Why are we giving them time yet?

Because they'll probably be still plain. We didn't give them due process.

Oh, alright. What's the name of this group again? Post Real Estate Group. Representative from Post Real Estate Group. Google. And you're Google them. And you're how long have you been a developer?

This has been active since 2005.

Okay. And your process is to just contact the local alderman, not the committee, and inform them of what you do?

Great. Do you want to?

Yeah, I'm glad to. So we contacted the city attorney's office and have been working with them and certainly made opportunities available to have conversations among city staff and the folks who are on the phone. This has been the opportunity that we've had to sort of present to you publicly. And if you'll give us just a few minutes, I think we'll at least be able to educate more about the project and then let folks make the decision in an educated way that suits everybody.

Where are you headquartered?

The developer or Your company.

Post real estate groups and national affordable workforce housing owner. We own 35,000 units across the country. We'll be working with Point REM. They're a Milwaukee based property management company.

Cool. Okay. Good.

So let me make, I guess, a couple of If I can just so the first thing is that it is correct. These are market rate units. The idea is that what the Post Group does is they take market rate units and convert them to affordable. Most communities around the country find that there's dearth of affordable housing available and so

the idea here is to take

these two projects, only the rental portions of these projects. These have nothing to do with anything that might be a condo portion of Arbor Ridge in particular, but the idea is to take these three seventy four units and convert them to one view to we're

by getting

tax a the exempt financing, city property. Attorney Shannon mentioned on the front end, it does enable there to be not only less rent, but also money put back into the projects. So we're talking about putting that there's plenty of work that needs to be done in these units. And so for instance, on the left, you see the formica countertops and on the right, you see the plan to not only upgrade appliances, but also upgrade countertops. And we're also talking about doing other work around the property to include exterior painting.

So we think 2,500,000 is sort of just to get these properties into a position where the residents have the kinds of units that we would all be proud to live in. What's important too is that I know there's the there's been a question about ownership here. So the post real estate group is going to work and partner with an affordable housing foundation. Quarter was '20 The of

what

'19. Quarter And And

get

second extent quarter that

get

that

credit enhancement from Fannie Mae. Fannie Mae is going to then monitor this project to ensure not only health and safety, but also ensure that the property is maintained properly. And so the fact that this owner is going to come in and convert it, put money into it and then will then be monitored by Fannie Mae on a go forward basis, we would suggest to you put you in a better position than you are now. It's also interesting to note that now the the

right right the

Fannie Mae oversight, and I'll finish up here, Mr. Chair, not only does it require annual inspections to ensure that the apartments are kept up, it ensures that money is set back for replacement reserves and also ensures that all life and safety issues, which would also be monitored locally, are handled and taken care of. That's the benefit of having this kind of bond financing with Fannie Mae involved. City attorney Shannon mentioned tax exempt debt under both state and federal law. This Wisconsin based issuer public finance authority won't proceed unless we have a public hearing and local approval.

Then were this to move forward, we have a public hearing on the eleventh and then we go before the common council twelfth, at which point the mayor could be authorized to get final approval, which is what's required. So in summary, there's three seventy four units that are market rate apartments right now that need work. Because the nonprofit would are We to going going be be do do that. On a rolling basis. Fannie Mae is going to have oversight over this project and you're dealing with a national real estate sponsor that's done this in multiple states with multiple units.

So having said that, we just wanted to provide this information to you for consideration and I'm glad to answer any questions as are the representatives from the company.

I guess my sense of this and building on what all the woman Taylor said, I mean, this would this may all be fine but you gotta come talk to people. The fact that nobody saw fit to even attend this hearing today to explain what you're explaining in person to allow us to size up you and your organization. And and then there's another group involved here, the Bedford Affordable Housing Foundation. What's that?

Mister chair, they've been doing it for twenty years. They know the process. Movement denial.

Okay. Alright. So Alderman Samford.