Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee - Regular Meeting

Mister Larson, would we send out, some sort of resolution to her or no?

I don't know the inner workings on on Arba.

Okay. Okay. No. That's okay. And that's on my part. That's okay. But thank you for for letting us know. Thank you.

Yeah. If miss Bellby is there, we I believe the order is still open, but, and we will talk she we can talk more later, but the fees being appealed have been waived.

Okay. Okay. So just go ahead and follow-up with them. Okay? Thank you so much. Uh-huh. Thank you, Jamie. Do I need to hit the recording button or not yet? On, GTM, or did you do that on your end? Okay. I'll just wait for, for the chair.

Thank you, Jamie.

Cancel her. Got new dates. This one? So I got blue.

Well, this is Vince Baba. Can you hear me?

Yes, sir.

Okay. We're just gonna wait another minute, and then we'll commence. We have 08:59. We start at nine.

Sure.

Mister Babrick, just so you know, we have, our newest member, mister Ruzan. Yep. Ruzan. Yeah.

Well, welcome to the board. Alex, how are you doing?

Doing pretty good. How are you? Good.

For some reason, I don't see you on the screen.

In the corner.

In the corner.

He's in 301A.

He's watching.

You on the screen.

Are you there in person?

Yes.

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Oh, that's fine. Now I see you. Okay. It is 9AM. Are you ready to start, Joanna?

Hang on one second. Let me get me familiar with the numbers here. It looks like it's only

I'll adjust it, but I think we can let me get the report button.

Jamie? Get started, miss Babin.

Okay. Well, good morning, everyone. My name is, Vincent Babin. I'm the chair of the Administrative Review Appeals Board, and, this is the, appeals meeting for 02/13/2026. And at this time, I'm joined by our vice chair, Kendrick Gandel, member Elizabeth Hammer, and our new board member, Alex Bruzan. We do have one other board member. That's Alderman Deandra Jackson. Is he there?

Yes. Okay.

Good morning to all board members. At this time, I'm gonna call our item number one, which is the appeal of bar Bobby Robbie Sargent, 2316 West McKinley Avenue. Is Robbie Sargent in the audience?

Did he come and see that, sir?

He was what? Oh, there he is. Okay. Good morning, mister Sargent.

Good morning.

Our policy is what happens is that the city is the first to go and and and elicit testimony regarding the violation you allegedly had occurred. You're gonna have an opportunity to question the city. You're also gonna have an opportunity to, tell the board, about your appeal. So at this time, I'm gonna have our assistant, Joanna, swear both witnesses in.

This only affirm that the pains and penalties of perjury that testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Thank you.

Yes.

And who will be appearing for the city?

I will. Ben Brannan, property maintenance compliance manager for City of Milwaukee Forestry.

Okay. Good morning, mister Brannan. You may proceed.

Okay.

I believe this appeal has already been before the appeals board once before. I'll just go through the summary that I already did the last time as well just to review everything. File number is 25114. The address is 3525 West Center Street, and this record was PWCFDash24Dash09697. On 12/09/2024, the property was inspected and cited for a hazard tree, complaint.

On January 20 or 01/14/2025, the property was reinspected and sent to contractor for removal of a hazard tree in the the rear of this property. On 03/27/2025, the property or the hazard tree was removed by

This conference will now be recorded.

On, 03/27/2025, the property the hazard tree was removed by a city contractor. The fees associated with this, file is a $1,950 contractor fee for removal, a $50 admin fee, and the tax associated is, $158, bringing the total to $2,158. Along with the summary, there are inspection photos of the hazardous tree. There's contractor before and after photos as well as the GIS layer showing the tree is on mister Sargent's property.

Okay. Am I correct in that this is the second time? And then the first time, I think we adjourned it because he was going to produce a map of the property. Am I correct in that assertion?

I have a map right here. I had an appraisal done on my property.

What excuse me. Mister Brannon, well, the the the question is to mister Brannon. Is that correct?

That's my understanding. Yes.

Have you had an opportunity now that mister Sergeant has he's here today, and he's holding up a piece of paper that I believe is that the map of your property, mister Sergeant?

Yeah. It's your protocol. It's showing the neighbor's house and where my garage is and where my house is, where the footage

Is is that have you had an opportunity to see that map, mister Brennan?

I have not.

Mister Brennan, that map you have, is that a certified map of your property lines?

Yep. That comes from the, Milwaukee County GIS layer. That that property line is, provided by, I believe, the assessors. And so that's the most current property boundary that we have.

Well, is the tree within the boundary of mister Surgeon's property?

Absolutely. Yes. Okay,

mister Surgeon. Do you have any questions of mister Brennan?

No. I just paid for an appraisal, and they threw it out on the map and then the garage and the the bot next door. So they they even told me that it won't have property. They went to the house next door, the people living in.

When you say they, who are they?

They're the duplex next door, and they have a fence up, and it connects from there to my garage. And I have a piece of board up from the end of the garage with the orange label. And when I purchased the property about over ten years ago from Roy Shelton, he showed me where the lines were and that's when we put the fence behind the garage because people were going in behind the garage drinking and going through the alley between the two houses. So we fenced all that off. And then the neighbor takes the fence down and drives up there and parks from behind. So that's my understanding of when I purchased property, there was a property mine, and that's what I've been maintaining.

Yes. But the piece of paper that you have there in front of you, is that a certified map of your property?

It's part of the appraisal. I paid for an appraisal, and it shows the property, and it shows the address, my name, and phone number, and case number from your appraisal. I refinanced the property.

Well, I've always been under the impression that on property lines, you actually have a survey. And on the appraisal, I I don't know how definitive or accurate that is on the property line. So that's where I'm having a trouble with right now. Mister Brennan, are you able Brennan, are you able to shed any light on his appraisal where he has the property lines?

The only, other information I could, give is, in the last year, we had a similar situation where, somebody was disputing the property lines based on the map layer that we have. We I contacted our our land surveyor, for the city, and they showed that our our map layer was correct and that and they reinforced at that time that that is that would be the correct boundary based on this GIS layer. I suppose something I could offer is that we could

work with

the land surveyor and just make sure that our end is correct again, but that's based on what I've all the information that I am given, this is our property or this is the property line. So if he has something that, disputes that, it would have to go beyond me. That would have to go to to our our land surveyor.

Okay. Mister mister Surgeon, I I'm inclined to adjourn this so you can connect with mister Brannon so we can see what your information you have, and they can check their data to see where the actual property lines are for your, your homestead. I don't know how else we can how else we can do it.

Well, if I would have known I owned that, I would have had that tree cut down. So it's not that I'm disagreeing with it. It's just when he called me, we got into an argument, and I didn't appreciate that.

Well, I think the best we can do is you'd have to pay to have the tree cut down, which is 1,950. And I can ask the board if they would waive the administrative fee and and save you on that. But right now, without that, we'd have to confirm this boundary line situation. Are you willing to, pay the $1,950?

That's too much for a tree. I could've got it cut for 500. So let's wait.

Well, I I saw the pictures of a tree, and I have to disagree with you.

I paid 900 for a tree. I have three of them with the professional LLC guy. He cut the tree down and splitting in half. So, you know, that price is way too high.

Well, right now, we're in committee. I'm gonna entertain a motion of whether or not we're gonna accept what you have as documentation or go with the city or entertain an adjournment. Do I have a motion?

Mister chair, a motion for adjournment because, this this happens a lot in the city. I've actually experienced this before. They tore down a house on the property, but the city tried to charge me for it. I had to go dig into the catacombs and get the actual records to show that that wasn't my property. So I this happens. But if he does own a property, he should also know that that's his property so he could maintain and take care of it going forward.

I'm sorry. Yeah. For adjourned.

Yeah. I have a motion by Alderman Jackson to adjourn it to do further research into the property line dispute concerning the tree contained therein. Do I have a second?

Second.

And that second was from

Kendrick Yandell.

Kendrick Yandell?

Yes.

Okay. Any further discussion?

All those are think you would have to have I think you would have to have, some sort of a survey. I don't know that an appraisal I don't think that that's gonna cut it here. I mean, we don't really know what the appraisal is based on. We don't know what sort of information this appraiser used. I think in order to make sure that we have the correct information, he's either gonna need a well, I think he's gonna need a survey. He can work with the city, but I I I just have a hard time seeing how we can resolve this without a survey.

I wholeheartedly agree. That's why we're adjourning. Mister sergeant, we have to have a survey. We can't appraisal is is not gonna be enough for us to decide in your favor, and that's why I'm adjourning it. That's why the recommendation is to adjourn it. Because right now, from what you provided, I would probably expect to entertain a motion to deny your appeal.

Well, if I had enough time to cut the tree down, I would have already done it myself. So that's why I'm saying I don't think it's fair, but this has happened to other properties of mine. Same thing for trash. Same thing for other things. But I'm a landlord in Wisconsin, And I'm trying to clean up the area, and I didn't get enough chance to even he only sent me a drawing showing the tree. There's two trees there. One of them they cut down. I would have paid somebody not what they offered to pay down. I didn't get no letter in the mail stating that they were gonna do it. It was only a drawing that he drew showing that the tree was on my line. If I had known you 1,900, I would have found somebody else and got rid of it instead of paying them that.

Well, my understanding, sir, the issue here is whether or not the tree is within your property lines. And we're willing to adjourn it for you to get further proof. If not, I would entertain another motion by board members to deny your appeal or to grant it.

Money. I don't have more money to pay for this. And I can't take off work coming for half an hour or do a Zoom call from the possibility. This is a second time.

Okay. Well, then my understanding is that right now you want it resolved today, so I'll entertain a motion to to cancel the motion by Alderman Jackson and entertain a new motion.

Move withdraw.

Okay. Alderman Jackson has withdrawn his his motion. Do I have another motion concerning the appeal of Robbie Sargent?

I mean, that come back to you.

Mister chair? More money.

We had more money on our appraisal for for that.

Mister chair?

Yes.

I would move to grant in part and deny in part. I would grant the appeal as to the administrative fee and the tax and deny the appeal as to the cost of the contractor's fee.

Yeah. I have a motion by vice chair Yandell to grant the appeal in part and deny it in part. Basically, we would hold mister Surgent responsible for the $1,950 contractor fee. Do I have a second? Second. And that's Alderman Jackson? Yes, sir. Okay. Any further discussion?

So that means I'm responsible for the house of the tree.

That's correct. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Mister, sergeant, we granted your appeal in part and denied in part. You will be responsible for the contractor fee. And if you want to appeal, you'll be getting written notice, excuse me, of our decision, and you can appeal to circuit court. I wanna thank you for coming in. I'm gonna make one last, comment on this case.

On the cost of the contractor, we've been encouraging people and contractors to bid on these contracts to lower the cost for individuals that have the city go and do something. So right now, this is an open bid, and, basically, that's the contractor that won on the tree removal. Okay? At this time, I'm gonna call item number two, Robbie Sargent. I understand we settled that one. Correct?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Then we're gonna move to number three, which which was the appeal of Xiang Yang Zhang. Is Xiang Zhang in the audience or on the screen? Okay. We're gonna pass this briefly and recall it. I'm gonna call item number four, the appeal of Heather Grove Hanson. Is miss Hanson in the audience? Because I do not see her on the screen.

She is not, mister chair.

Okay. We're gonna hold that briefly too, and get back to it. At this, I'm gonna call number 5, which is the appeal of Michael Mansky. Is mister Mansky available?

Yes. He's here. He's here.

Okay. Mister Mansky, good morning. Good morning. Okay. Who is gonna be appearing for the city?

Mister chair, it's Pete Larson with Neighborhood Services. Good morning, mister Larson. Okay. This is chair mister chair for mister Mansky, to save time, the city is gonna waive the $2.54 fee. I apologize for not getting to mister Mansky sooner with that information.

K. Mister Mansky, my understanding is the city is now withdrawing the $254 fee that you would have to pay, and this matter is concluded.

Okay. I fine.

I wanna thank you for coming in today.

Thank you. I'm sorry. Had the I said, by phone, it's just.

Well, things like that happen all the time. I'm gonna now call number 6. 6. And that is the appeal of Zagman Serafin.

Mister chair?

Yes?

I I got a phone call yesterday from mister Seraphin that he was unable to attend this meeting today. So he's requested for the item to be held.

And did he cite a reason? If you recall. Not

that I recall, sir.

Okay. At this time, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn mister Serafin's appeal before the board.

Mister chair?

Mister Iandel.

I would move to hold this for another hearing.

I have a motion by mister Iendel to hold the matter for another hearing. Do I have a second? Do I have a second? I have a second by board member Hammer to any objections? Hearing none, so ordered. We're now going to number seven, the appeal of Kenneth Brown. Is Kenneth Brown is that you, mister Brown? Who's representing Mr. Brown? Is Mr. Brown in the audience?

No, sir.

Is anybody here representing mister Brown? Are you a representative mister Brown attorney Arena? I think mister Brown is with attorney Arena, but, apparently, mister Arena is not hearing us. Attorney Arena? Are you able to hear me, Joanna?

I can hear you. It it's probably his sound.

Okay.

Yeah. He probably has the volume super low.

The reason I know it's attorney Arena is because he had called me to get the the codes to get into the hearing by well, I guess we could pass until he goes online. I'm trying

to email him and see if he pays attention to the computer screen.

Oh, that'd be great because right now he's blowing his nose. But he

seems like he's talking to whomever is at his desk. So Okay. And we have no no, guided no we can control his volume from our end.

Okay. Yeah.

He's afraid of talking.

I'm gonna move over to number nine. I've got appeal of Jonathan Smith, and I got that HCC cannot make it.

That is correct. No reason was given either.

And that's the appeal of Jonathan Smith?

Correct.

And just my round of clarification. Who's HCC?

What's the question again, sir?

What is HCC?

Well, it's it's it's my internal note. Hold to the call of the chair.

Oh, okay. Okay.

At this time, I'm gonna entertain a motion on number nine to hold the call of the chair, the appeal of Jonathan Smith for reinspection fees at $6.01 5 South 80 ninth Street. Do I have a a motion? Yes, mister chair.

I would I would, move denial.

Okay. I have a motion by Alderman Jackson to deny. Do I have a second?

Mister chair, I think I'm confused. I I don't think I understand what's going on. Are we moving to hold this, or are we moving to deny the appeal?

Well, right now, I'm entertaining a motion to hold it. And right now, we have a motion on the table from Alderman Jackson to actually deny that and and post judgment. Is that correct, Alderman Jackson?

Yes, sir.

And just so I can confirm, we have a no show by the, by the appellant, and we have no reason for the no show. Is that correct?

Is correct.

But when Joanna when he the when Jonathan Smith is the one that called you?

Jonathan Smith was the one that called requesting requesting a new date.

Any reason given by him for the new date?

He said that he was unable to attend today's hearing.

But he wasn't specific on the reason?

Not that I recall, sir.

Okay. Well, I I would draw a motion and return another motion.

Okay. Alderman Jackson has withdrawn his motion to deny. Do I have a motion to hold for the call of the chair?

Mister chair, I mister chair?

Yes, mister Yandel. I would move to hold this matter. Okay. I have a motion by vice chair Yandel to hold for the call and the chair, and I have a second by commissioner Hammer. Yes. Any further discussion? Any objections? Hearing none, so ordered. And we also have another one for the 09:00 for hold of a call on a chair. The appeal of Freda Webb for reinspection fees at 3373 To 77 North Doctor Martin Luther King Drive. Do I have a motion?

Move to hold, mister chair.

I have a motion by Alderman Jackson to hold. Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by mister Yandel. Any objections? Hearing none, so ordered. I'm now gonna return to the ones that we passed up. And

Attorney Arena?

Do you have Andy Arena on board?

Let's see. Anecdotally, I don't believe that's mister Brown, but that's just anecdotal.

Yeah. I don't know what the let's let's go back to the counter a little bit. Number three, the appeal of Zaya Zhang. Is Zaya Zhang with us or in the audience? Okay.

I'm going to number three, the appeal of Zaya Zhang. Seventy o four zero one West Derby. Well, I'll entertain a motion to deny based on that appearance. It is 09:25. This was scheduled for 9AM. Do I have a motion?

Mister chair?

Mister Yandel.

To deny for non prosecution.

Okay. I have a motion by vice chair Yandel to deny for non appearance. Do I have a second? Second. Second by Alderman Jackson. Any objection? Hearing none, so ordered. Okay. I'm gonna go to number four of the appeal of Heather Grove Hanson. 2818 North 72nd Street. It was on our agenda as number four. It is now 09:25. Do I have a motion to deny based on that appearance?

Motion to deny.

I've got a motion by Alderman Jackson. Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by mister Yandel. Any objections? So or okay. We have we have attorney Arena standing up now, and I I was under the impression he was on number seven seven and eight because he called me for the access codes. Mister Arena, can you hear me?

Well, I don't know what else we can do. We we can start with our 09:30. I mean, how do we get ahold of mister Arena? Do you want me to try to give him a call saying he called me on my cell phone and I could call him? What are That's What is the is the pleasure of the of the board?

Yes. Give him a call, please, because I I would like to just, close these out. So if you give him a call

and Okay. I'm gonna give him a call right now because he did call me for the access codes. I'm gonna put it on speakerphone.

Hello?

Attorney Irina, this is chair Vincent Bobbeth on administrative review board of appeals. We've been trying to call you for the last ten or fifteen minutes.

My sound isn't working in my computer, and I don't know why. I mean, I I use it all the time. So can can we do

it through the phone?

Well, the problem is is that with the witnesses, we have to hear them speak. And we we've got visual. We had recording. We're on a speakerphone. I know. But we have visual, but I I don't know how that's gonna work for us to figure this out. For

mister Arena, if if you

go to your settings Hold on a second. Mister Larinson has something to tell you. Hold on. Okay, mister Larinson.

Mister Irina, don't know if you've already tried this, but if you go to your settings button and go to microphone and pick your own microphone, I had to do that earlier myself.

Did you get that, attorney Arena? Attorney Arena, can you hear me?

Yeah. I can hear you.

Did you get get

you done.

Did you get the suggestion by mister Larson?

I said go into the settings and go into the microphone, which I've done that. I'm turning on my microphone.

Yeah. We got him.

Okay. Miss Arena, can you hear me? Attorney Arena.

Apparently, it's not working. Okay. Can you hear me now?

We could hear you now.

Okay. I found some button to push that worked, but all I can tell you Say something, Ken. Yes, sir. Can you hear any other people in the room?

Yes. Okay.

Thanks.

Okay. I'm gonna call well, we're having a technological day today. I'm gonna call the appeal of Kenneth Brown. 3536 North 93rd Street. It is number seven on our agenda. Who is gonna be appearing for this city? Mister Larson. Mayor mister Larson. And who will be appearing for mister Brown?

Ken Brown and Mary Brown.

And could you state your appearance, attorney Arena?

Canon Mary Brown appear by attorney Andrew Arena.

Okay. Okay. At this time, Joanna, would you please swear in the witnesses?

Raise your hands.

Do you solemnly affirm that the pains and penalties of perjury in the state of Wisconsin that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the

whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do.

And could you have your client speak up, attorney Armenia? Because I could not hear them.

Yes. Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you. Mister Alertson, you may proceed.

Thank you, mister chairman. 3536North90Third. I trust that the board has got my packet. I'll go in a brief narrative. We the department originally received a complaint regarding outdoor storage in June 2024.

We issued orders to discontinue outdoor storage. There was noncompliance in August, noncompliance in September '24, which then was referral to municipal court on a municipal court judgment of February 2025. We then received an additional complaint 06/09/2025, issued an order again for outdoor storage. We made direct contact, with, the property owners on 06/27/2025. In July '25, there were multiple contacts with the owners.

Reinspection noncompliance 729. At that point, per our procedures after a municipal court judgment, the order is enrolled in what we call our monthly reinspection program where we come out monthly, and charge a reinspection fee until compliance is obtained. There was a fee charged $9.30 25, a fee charged $10.10 25. The appeal was filed 10/16/2025. And then subsequently, there were reinspections November, December and January where reinspection fees were charged.

So total charges after the appeal filed 1524. I've submitted photos from the reinspections. I'm available to answer questions.

Well, attorney Reen, do you have any questions for mister Larson?

Is mister Larson aware that there were meetings scheduled with Mary Brown and officials of the Department of Neighborhood Services Due to her health problems, things couldn't be done, and those meetings did not happen.

Uh-oh. I'm

forgive me, mister attorney Irina. You're you're very fairly audible. I'm not sure if if I can hear your question, but is your question I'm I'm aware the meetings did not happen.

Well, yes. She had contacted she had a major health issue going on at that time period in the 2025, and she was trying to work with the Department of Neighborhood Services to get time to get this stuff under control, and they had scheduled a meeting. She couldn't make it because of her health problem, and then they stopped having meetings. It's do you have any notes or, any comment to that history?

Let me let me pull down.

Could you hear me better with that, by the way, on that?

We spoke some briefly. Supervisor Kim Lyon spoke with mister Brown, July 14. Supervisor Ms. Zabkowski spoke with mister Brown, July 14. And then there was a contact again with a special enforcement inspector August 6.

I can go back. On July 27, as I mentioned, Mary Brown, met with supervisor Kim Lyons. So the way it works in terms of monthly reinspections, we do have an ability to waive fees, in a given tax year, provided there's compliance. But in terms of pure procedure, once we've established our contact in terms of reinspection fees, that's the limit of our burden in terms of the procedures that the board recognizes for the validity of reinspection fees.

Any other questions, attorney Arena?

No.

Okay. At this time, mister Arena, you may call your first witness. I take that back. Any questions from, board members concerning the testimony of mister Laritza? Hearing none? Okay. Miss, attorney Irina, you can may call your first witness.

It'll be Mary Brown. We have to shuffle some walkers around there.

No problem. Take your time. Good morning, miss Brown. Good

morning.

Hey. Attorney Aretha, your witness? Can you please state your name?

Mary Kay Brown.

And do you reside at this address on North 93rd Street?

No. I reside at 9300 West Hour Avenue.

And does North 90 in the 3rd Street, that a property that your name is on the property? Yes. And you heard some testimony about a meeting in July of July 14 of this last summer twenty twenty five. Do you recall that meeting with, mister Lyons?

I'm I did not meet with mister Lyons in July. Ken and I met with miss Lyons in June down on South 6th Street, 6 in Layton, and the tower Building or whatever it's called and talked to her in person. We were scheduled to meet out at the properties at a date after that. But because I had a health crisis, I couldn't make it. And I called in and let them know, requested that we reschedule it, and I never got any communication back.

And then my health continued to deteriorate, and Ken had to deal with things because I couldn't.

And does Ken Brown also have health issues that cause him to be unable to sometimes do the things that Yes.

Required? He has also critical health issues.

Now who resides at North 93rd Street?

No one does right now. We were going to have our son move in there, but he's taking care of me at the house on our avenue. So it's property all waiting to be occupied by a family member.

And so the house is vacant, and you're aware that you have orders concerning storage of items in the yard.

Yes. Since

those orders were issued, was there any effort taken to remove these items in the yard?

Yes. We some of the stuff had been removed. Ken had removed some of the stuff. He had talked with different inspectors over the time, And, yeah, that has sort of fallen by the wayside. It became not a functional relationship.

Are you aware if Ken was ever expressly told specific items? Yes. How to deal with them?

Yes. Because he had car covers over the covers, and he had over the cars. And he had put ladders on top so the covers didn't blow away. And he had been told by the one inspector that those ladders had to go and something else had to be oh, a door had to go over the one the one gri the one shed thing needed a door to it. And if he fixed those, then things would have been in compliance at that time, which he took care of that. But then we had a different inspector who then said, no. It wasn't in compliance.

Okay. I have no further questions of this witness.

Okay. Any questions from board members, miss Brown? Miss Brown, I I have a question for you. How long has that property been vacant? Around this time, and that's in question.

We have not lived in it. I don't remember what year we bought it. It was intended for our son to move into after he graduated from college.

And And my understanding is that you were you were found guilty in minis Milwaukee Municipal Court for this type of violation?

For outside storage?

Yes. Did you go to municipal court?

Yes.

And were you found guilty or enter a no contest plea?

Enter a no contest, I believe.

Have you since paid the forfeiture?

Yes. Except for on the last tax bill. I haven't paid that yet because I was waiting to hear what we decided to what was being decided today.

Do you have any idea on the things that were stored outside who those belong to? We have pictures of them. And were those your items?

They're not my items. My husband has placed things there.

Alright. So to your knowledge, those items were placed outdoor by your husband?

Yes.

K. I have no further questions, miss Brown. Do any other board members have questions of miss Brown? Okay. At this time, we're in committee, and I will entertain a motion.

I might have another witness.

Oh, I'm sorry. I I apologize, attorney Arena. I I apologize. Okay. You may call your next witness.

I'm gonna call Ken Brown.

Yeah. I just wasn't sure if

Hello. Well, that's okay. Walker. Can you state your name for the record, please? I guess he's been sworn in, I believe. So

Yes. He has been sworn in. You may proceed.

Can you state your name, please? Yes, sir. Kenneth Brown. And are you an owner of the property at 3536 North 93rd Street? Yes, sir. And You heard about a meeting on July 14 that you had concerning that property with mister Ken Lyons. Do you recall that meeting? I believe it was a miss Lyons. I'm I'm sorry. Miss Lyons.

Do you recall another inspector being present at that meeting? I believe there was a inspector with her. I believe his name was Lancaster. Okay. And the order that was entered back in 2024, what did you do to get in compliance with that order?

I was told at that time from inspector Rusnak that if I remove the ladders off the top of the cars that were there just to keep the car covers in place and I installed sliding doors on the garage addition that faced the north, we would be good to go. Were there other items in the yard that need to be removed and put in the garage? At that time, there was nothing mentioned to me about having to move any other items other than doing those two functions of the ladder removal and putting doors on that garage addition. How would doors on the garage addition stop or abate the actual outdoor storage that you were accused of? On the garage addition, I've got that with with items in that garage edition.

And, obviously, somebody had problems with viewing them even though I've got a fence up. And so they told me to put doors on that garage addition, and I put sliding barn doors on there. The only thing I haven't done yet is paint them. So these sliding barn doors prevent people from seeing what is inside the garage? Yes, sir.

Along with the fence. What other items do you have in the yard other than what was put in the garage at that time? I probably got a few more ladders, and I've got a a snowblower way in the back that I have to widen the walkway that I've got a pallet of bricks there to to widen the walkway, and I've got some railroad ties that I have to put along the walkway to keep the dirt from eroding away. So you're talking about things that involve work that you plan on doing to the property? Yes, sir.

Was that made clear to the inspector at the time that you were going to be using those materials on network? Inspectors normally don't come around to speak with you on September 30 when mister Rusnak came by even though he was not supposed to be on my particular case or agenda. He just stopped by and looked in the driveway from the sidewalk, went to the neighbor's driveway and looked from the sidewalk, and sped away. Even though I tried to stop him and talk with him, I could have been invisible. He wouldn't have stopped unless I would have thrown myself in front of his car.

Now what are your health issues that prevent you from getting this done in such a a timely manner? For what I've had, I've had six shoulder surgeries in a matter of a couple years, and I've got stage four kidney failure. And I've got some mental issues going on that I've been treated for by a Janet Burns all by my health clinic on Lilly and Capital. And other than that, yeah, I'm diabetic, and I'm 70 years old.

And

I've got limitations to what I can all do. I've got visions of doing more than I'm capable of doing. But as far as trying to do, I'm I'm not I'm not hanging it up as far as not being able to try to do things, but I'm not as as strong as I used to be. Now you have a reinspection fee of $508 a month that you've incurred over a number of months. What does this financially do to your your life your life's death?

I guess it's a choice for one pay the inspection fees and and buy groceries, pay your insurance, and I can't even afford to pay my my deductible on on my GLP one medication. They want $650 for that as a co pay. So, yeah, I'm off that. And without that, I my blood sugar plummets in the afternoon. I'm I'm trying to get on a program with Mounjaro, but you don't even get to talk to a person with them.

It's all machine. So are you asking the city today or the board of appeals to give you some relief on this financial reinspection fee issue in order for you to get in compliance. Yes, sir. I would like that if we if we could work something out. I'm not opposed to trying to help out doing things, but I've got my limitations.

And, unfortunately, I'm not a young man anymore. So it's, it's that I I wanna do these things, but I I'm doing the best I can. I have no further questions, mister chairman.

Well, thank you, attorney Arena. I have one question. Mister Brown, were you the one that put those items outside for the outdoor storage?

I guess you'd have to be specific on it, but I'm the only guy that would be putting stuff there. My wife's incapable of doing things.

Okay. Well, thank you. Any any questions of mister Brown by other board members?

Yeah. Yeah, mister chair. I I'm just curious, mister Brown. How many ladders are we talking about?

The ladders that were on the cars, there was one per car.

And how many cars would that have been? Three? And are the cars parked on a a paved slab? Yes, sir. Gravel? Okay.

No, sir. Concrete. Everything I've ever done over there with any kind of garage addition or a a a little shed that was built to the back of the garage. That that was in addition to by the previous owner. That used to be lantern stone chunks, and I removed all that and poured that all in with concrete.

I Mr. Brown Mr. Brown, are they, like, aluminum extension ladders that are sitting on top of the cars?

They were, but they're not anymore. I took them off. The inspector told me to take the ladders off, and I did that. I replaced those ladders with some polyplastic service pallets that are 40 inch by 40 inch. And they're a a black plastic and that fits on top of the car covers that are a gunmetal grade.

Any further questions of Mr. Brown? Mr. Chair? Yes. Mr. Yandell.

I have a question. So what is your plan to get rid of these items or to remove these so that they're no longer visible to the public or your neighbors?

I guess that, you know, it's a side drive, and the the neighbor that would have been to the south, they found it necessary to move, and they made a a healthy profit on the home.

Pardon me?

I'm gonna have to remove a few items and make it prettier, I guess, that that everybody's happy. But like I said, I've got my limitations as far as I I can't work in cold weather even though we're getting a little bit of a a warm up now. As far as I can, I will make it more aesthetically pleasing? I always keep the front of the house aesthetically pleasing, and I've got a sign up that says no trespass. I'm not asking people to make a tour of my home on the outside.

I always thought the driveway would be a private issue, but if I if I have to put gates across the driveway, I don't like to do something like that because that doesn't leave a good impression with people. But if I have to remove a few things that that are somewhat affecting people's thoughts towards me, I guess I have to. I try to keep the front looking real nice, and I've even been told by inspector to remove my Christmas wreath. They didn't like that. And I've got lights that go on for four hours every night from four or 5PM till about nine or 10PM with the little tiny Christmas lights on a wreath and a small three foot Christmas tree and a little fire pit.

And I always thought that looked nice in the front and seeing as the street lights are

Mister mister Brown mister Brown, I'm just gonna ask you to stop because this isn't answering my question. So this has been going on for two years, it looks like. It looks like there was an order first issued in June 8 06/18/2024, and now we're in February 2026. So my question here is, if you were given time, and I can't promise anything because I don't have that authority, but if you were given time to, to remedy the situation, how much time would you need to get these items out of there so that you would be compliant with the city's order? That's my only question. How much time would you need?

I guess medically and psychologically, if I was to give you a number on that, I'd be lying to you. I have to go day by day and do things as I can. I can't tell you something. I'd be lying to you. I'm gonna do the best I can with what I've got, and I was even gonna try and get some of the people during the flood situation that were down on Menominee Parkway a few blocks away from us.

They had organizations that helped clean up and help remove items of which they're still in process of Okay. Some of those homes on the Parkway. And I was going to try that, but we're also in mid

Mister Brown, this mister Brown, this is chair Bobbitt.

Yes, sir.

I think we have an idea of what your situation is and but you were nonresponsive to the question because Mister Yandel just asked you if you could give us a date of the cleanup. So any other further questions from board members?

No, sir.

We're in committee. At this time, I'll entertain a motion on the appeal of Kenneth Brown.

Mister chair, I move to deny.

I have a motion by board member Hammer to deny the appeal of mister Brown. Do I have a second?

Second. Who

is the second from?

Kendrick Gandel.

We have a second by Commissioner Gandel. Do I have any further discussion? Hearing hearing none. All those in favor, would you say aye? Aye. Aye. K. Mister Brown, we denied your appeal. You'll be receiving written notice of the denial from Joanna who is our assistant, and they'll tell you what your appeal rights are. We are now gonna move to number eight on the agenda, and it also involves you, mister Brown, for a property at 7809 West Hadley Street.

And I, all witnesses have been sworn in to my knowledge. Mister Larson, would you please proceed?

Hey, mister chair. This is a similar situation. We received original complaint for outdoor storage, April '24. Issued orders in April '24. Noncompliance in July '24. There was a referral to court and a municipal judgment 12/03/2024. Received a new complaint in April '25. Order issued in May '25. Direct contact with mister Brown via phone. Verified receipt of order, 06/13/2025.

Was reinspected June 18, noncompliance. And as mentioned before, after a municipal judgment, our reissued orders go into a monthly reinspection program. The, as again mentioned, there was contact, with the department in July '25 with the owner, multiple contacts including an on-site meeting with management. Fee charged September 11 for noncompliance, fee charged October 10 for noncompliance, and then the appeal was filed, 10/22. There were reinspections November, December, and January.

Total fees charged after filing 1524. I trust that the board has the packet and the photos, and the associated documents. So I'm available for questions.

Any questions, attorney Arena? No. Any questions from board members? Okay. Well, we're now at, mister Brown's side. Excuse me. Attorney Arena, do you wanna call your first witness?

Call Ken Brown.

This is in

the chair.

Good morning again, mister Brown. Mister Arena, you may proceed.

Mister Brown, what can you tell us about this property on Hanley? Do you live there? Yes, sir. Are there items in the yard? Yes, sir.

And are those items of importance to you? I guess if I've got them, they would be important to me. Yes, sir. And have you met with the city concerning your physical limitations to get the yard cleaned out? I don't remember ever meeting them over there about any I I've had a couple of inspections on my bird feeder or my animals in the that are that I I got on leashes, but nobody ever gave me an inspection on any items in the yard that I was face to face with, was there a court adjudication regarding handling?

Adjudication, meaning you you have a a a finding of guilty in a judgment on 12/03/2024 from the municipal court. You're aware of that? I guess. Yeah. You've received notices of your inspection fees on that property. Oh, yeah. They're good at that, sir. Have you met with them and attempted to work out a schedule to get in compliance. No. They they they don't make any kind of reach out and help you or reach out and talk with you.

You just get a note in the mail. Did you contact them to inform them that you were doing work on the order? I've I've taken notices to the commissioner's office. But So your answer is no. You you haven't had a meeting concerning No, sir. No. No. Nothing with inspectors. No. Have how long would it take you to get this in compliance and remove the storage from your yard at Haddon?

I guess from the start of spring, probably at least a few months, three to six months. Okay. No further questions.

Any questions from board members of Mr. Brown?

Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ian Bell.

Mr. Brown, if you were given three months to get all of these items cleaned up, would you be able to be compliant with the city's order within three months is my question.

I guess three months, but starting when I've got that cold weather issue.

Okay. Let me reask the question. Would you be able to be compliant by 06/13/2026, six months from today? I'm sorry. That's only four months. I would say, six months from today would be eight. So that by August 13, would you be able to be compliant by 08/13/2026?

I would have to think I should be able to. Yes. Sorry.

No further questions?

Any further questions for board members of Mr. Brown? Attorney Arena, any other witnesses?

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to note that I had submitted two statements from Ascension Healthcare concerning the physical conditions of mister Brown. One is from Janet Burns, and the other one is from Angela Micore. One describes what Raynaud's syndrome is, and the other one has some multiple issues of psychological and mood disorders. And, you know, one of those involves a little bit of supporting that goes on. I know that this isn't the first order the city has dealt with, but these are situations that are true, and they do affect with.

Thank you.

Note so noted. Any further witnesses, attorney Irina? No. Okay. At this time, unless there's any further questions, we're in committee. I will entertain a motion.

Mister chair? Yes. I would move to hold this matter until after August 13 and give the appellant an opportunity to become compliant with the city's orders. And after August 13, if he remains noncompliant, to take this matter up again for a final vote.

I have a motion by vice chair Yandel to hold this matter Okay. Date after August 13. My understanding is if that there is compliance, the motion the appeal would be granted for mister Brown. If not, it would go into a final decision and most likely judgment against him. Do I have a second? Second. Second by Alderman Jackson. Any further discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye. Aye.

Okay. Attorney Arena, we granted basically a hold for the call of the chair. If your client complies with this removal of outdoor storage material by August 13, we will schedule another date after that. And if there's compliance, it looks like we will grant his appeal.

Okay. Thank you. So in the meantime, will reinspections be stayed as well?

Mister Larson, are you able to respond to that?

Yes. No. We will continue to reinspect. As mentioned in the previous case, In the monthly program, we're looking for compliance. If we can get compliance, we can talk about internally talk about a reduction of fees. But, no, we continue to reinspect. He will have the ability to file appeals on those reinspections should he choose. But the August 13 date lines up with our procedures as well.

What is the necessary when do you anticipate the next next inspection to be?

This month, a February inspection at some point. We don't we're not held to a specific date, but, that it's a monthly check.

Is it possible that we could just make the next monthly check-in March?

I would certainly take the board's request and review that with management.

K. Attorney Arena, it looks like the board's request is that he consider not doing a reinspection till March, but he's gotta do some consultation with superiors. But it's a possibility that it could be a a fee due in February. However, hopefully, we'll hope for March. But if it's not cleared up by March sometime, then we'd be starting a whole new process, a whole new appeal because we're we're dealing with what today is gonna be set for sometime after August 13.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the time today.

Okay. Thank you so much. At this time, we're gonna now go to our 09:30 agenda, and the first one's gonna be the appeal of Annie Demon for garage and litter

Mister Terry, excuse me. Did we do number 10, item 10?

10 was settled.

Oh, okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Twelve, thirteen, and 14 are settled, so I don't recall those. The appeal of Annie Beaman for garbage and litter nuisance fees, 4136 North 27th Street. Annie, I see you on the screen. Thank you for your patience. And who is gonna be appearing for the city?

Good morning, mister chair. Laurie Gallup. Camera trouble trying to log in now.

Okay. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to because we do require

I need

to see you.

I don't on there. We do require visual appearance. I know you're here, Laurie. I can see the mic on, but we do require visitors.

If necessary, we can use my camera.

Oh, that'd be fine. So we're on just a brief

Here we go. Can you hear me?

Yes. I can. I can hear and see you. Good morning, Lori Gallop. Good morning. Okay. We're here for the appeal today of of, Annie Beaman, and she is here on the screen. And would you please swear to witnesses, please?

Miss Bateman, if you can raise your right hand for me, please. You so only affirm under the patent penalty subpoetry in the state of Wisconsin that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

Okay. You may proceed, Ms. Gell.

Thank you, mister chair. Upon receiving a complaint, at this address, 4136 North 27th Street, my inspector did did go out, conduct a inspection at the property, did find a solid waste violation, posted the property on 08/25/2025. In your packet, you will have the hard copy of the order along with a photograph close-up photograph of the posting of the order on the property. And then I provided documentation as far as photographic evidence of the posting on the front door, and then the inspector photographs, of a large amount of debris and what appears to be a vacant building with a fence that was there at one point in time. It may have gotten knocked down.

And then when our contractor went out to clean up the debris, you do have those photographs of before and after showing that there was a large amount of debris, solid waste, and then the after photographs showing the cleanup of that violation. The breakdown of the fees that were charged for this property, our contractor cleanup fee of $1,291.50, an administrative cost of a $120, and an IT technical surcharge of $22.58.

Was there a tax?

No, sir.

No tax? K. Any questions of Ms. Gelb, Ms. Beaman?

You wanna activate your audio?

Can you hear me?

Can hear you now. Do you have any questions for miss Gail, miss Beaman?

Yes. Yes. I do. I want to respond to that. This is as a result.

Hold on a second. This is the time you can ask questions of her, and you're gonna give an opportunity to tell us what you want us to hear.

Okay. Alright. Do I have Yeah.

Miss Gallup. Yeah.

My question is I don't understand this, why I'm charged for this amount. The question is why.

Do you have any idea why? I know that you had testified earlier. There was a complaint of a violation. Do you have anything other than that that you can testify to in response to that question?

Not at this time.

No. No. I'm asking miss Keller. Oh.

Yes, sir. We did we did receive a complaint. And upon receipt of a complaint, our inspectors normally conduct that inspection within our protocol is within two weeks of receiving that complaint. We did conduct the inspection on 08/25. The complaint was the complaint was received on 08/18.

We conducted our inspection on 08/25 according to chapter 79 of the Milwaukee code of ordinances volume one. Any type of litter, debris, solid waste on a property is a violation, and the order was was issued properly and posted on the property properly according to our policies and pre procedures and ordinances.

Any further questions, miss Beaman?

I'm trying to follow. I thought this was pertaining to

a period of time you can ask miss Gallup questions. Do you have any more questions of her? Not

at this time.

Any questions from other commissioners regarding the testimony of miss Gallup?

Not at this time.

Okay. Miss Beament, it is now your opportunity to tell us what you want us to consider regarding your appeal.

When I received this complaint, I talked with, inspector Kelly. As to why was I being charged for

this. There

was a large, huge pile of debris deposited in my backyard at 4136 North 27. And so what had happened, she had contacted the city to clean up the the, trash. And I asked, inspector Kelly why did she do that. And she said she was told to do so by her, by David Silver, I believe. And she said you can call him and ask him about it.

She gave me his name, his telephone number. I contacted him. I spoke with him, and I explained that I had talked with inspector Kelly, and I was letting him know. This debris was brought there during the flood, and it was for the city to clean it up. And it was not even the deadline yet. It was somewhere in August that this was put there. Because periodically, I inspect my properties. I do. And so the, debris was there,

and

it was not the August. And the city even extended the time for the debris to be clean cleared up. I do not understand why I this has been put on my taxes, and this is the amount. And you probably know. $1,434.08.

That's a lot of money that I don't have to pay for, that kind of thing. And I want to know why was I charged this for this even before the deadline for picking up for the allowing the city to clear this up as the city as the the, they were going around the city clearing up the the trash and so forth from the flood. And this all happened during the flood. I tried to explain. I called, my alderman.

And so but she never called me back. And I I didn't get any help from anybody. So I'm really upset about this be it's transferred to my taxes because I think it's so unfairly done. I try to take care of my properties. I cut the grass.

I have a business to take care of my grass two times a month, the first week and the third week. I have a business that plows my snow. So I try to take care of my property, but that's what happened. I'm done.

Okay. Any questions of miss Beaman? Mister chair? Mister Yandell.

I have some questions. I don't think I totally understood, miss Beaman's testimony, so I just wanna make sure I'm clear on it. Miss Beaman, did you depo or do you know who deposited this, debris on your property?

Say that again?

Do you

know who deposited this debris on your property?

No idea. I do not. You

okay. And then you said that you talked with somebody at the city. Actually, let me rewind. So you did you receive the notice that they posted? You had twenty four hours to remove the debris.

Pertaining to this charge that I had? Did I receive a notice?

So there was the city has presented a solid waste violation notice. It looks like inspector Kelly posted it on 08/25/2025. Did you receive that notice?

I probably did. I I I

thought And

do you know

that was my reason of contacting her.

Do you

know when you received the notice?

I don't remember.

And then you said that you spoke with somebody okay. And then you said you spoke with somebody at the city about the notice?

I spoke with inspector Kelly.

Okay.

I asked her go ahead.

And did you did you tell miss Kelly that you were going to remove the debris?

No. I did not because I expected the city to remove it. They the city was removing other properties due to the flood.

K.

So I expected the sit I expected, that when the city got around to it, that they were gonna move it. They were moving other residents' waste and whatever was put out.

Did you express to inspector Kelly that it was your understanding that the city was going to remove the property for you at no charge?

Of course, I did. Yes.

And and what did inspector Kelly tell you about that belief?

Well, during the conversation, I asked her why did she do this. That was the question that I had of her.

She said Can just answer can you just answer my question? My question is, did you share with inspector Kelly your belief that the city was going to remove the debris at no charge to you?

Yes.

K. And what did inspector Kelly Kelly tell you about your belief that the city was going to remove it for you at no cost?

Repeat that, please. Repeat what you just said.

What did inspector Kelly how did inspector Kelly respond to your belief that the city was going to remove this debris at no cost to you? I

don't think she explained that. I don't think she went into an an an explanation about that.

She just told that that was an incorrect did she tell you that that was incorrect?

Did inspector Kelly tell me what was incorrect?

That your belief that the city was going to remove this debris for you at no cost to you was an incorrect belief. No.

I I don't recall her saying that because my question to her was, when I talked with her, I asked her, about this trash. And so she told me that she had the city to remove it because her boss told her. Now did I answer your question?

No. But that's okay. So why did you believe that the city was going to remove this debris at no cost to you despite the fact that you had a warning from the city telling you that you had twenty four hours to remove it yourself?

I don't recall getting that warning. I don't recall getting a warning that I had to remove, debris that was from the flood.

When we started this conversation, you said that you had received a notice that you had twenty four hours to remove this. That's the notice that I'm talking about.

I I I I don't recall the notice, but why would I get a notice when the city was removing, debris that was caused by the flood? I don't recall getting a notice.

Further questions? Any

other questions of miss Beaman from board members? Miss Beaman, I have one question for you. Is that property is vacant? Yes. And how long has that been vacant?

I have to stop and think. I really don't. It's been vacant for a while. I don't know exactly.

Is still is it still vacant?

Yes. It is.

Okay. I have no further questions. Any other questions come from board members? Okay. We're in committee. At this time, I'll entertain a motion.

Mister chair?

Mister Yandel.

To deny. I have

a motion by co chair Yandel to deny the appeal of Anne Beaman. Do I have a second?

I'll second.

I have a second by member Hammer. Any further discussion? Any opposition to that motion? Hearing none, so ordered. Miss Beamon, we denied your appeal.

You'll be receiving a written notice of the denial if you want to appeal our decision. I wanna thank you for coming this morning. At this time, I'm gonna call the appeal of Christine Selle for garbage and litter nuisance fees at 3250 North 88. Miss Selle, are you on the screen or in person with us today? At this time, it is 10:27. This was scheduled for 09:30.

Mister chair? Yes. The city of Milwaukee DNS, we we had a conversation with her, and we reached an agreement. So there there was an agreement made on this one.

Okay. I'm gonna then move to number 17, the appeal of Steve Brick for garbage and loose litter nuisance fees at 3121 North 29th Street. And I do see mister Brick. I saw him on a on a camera. Good morning, mister Brick.

Good morning, sir.

And who is gonna testify for the city?

Maury Gallup.

Miss Gallup has already been sworn in. Mister Brick, would you please raise your right hand?

Just only affirm under the plaintiff penalties of perjury under the state of Wisconsin that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Yes.

Okay. You may proceed, miss Gallup.

To save, the commission some time here, upon further review and the photographs and another inspection of the area, the appellant, has indicated that it was not his property. Although we determined that it could in fact still be his property, we did not provide enough photographic evidence to say that all of that debris was completely on his property and that he should be billed for this. So the city of Milwaukee, will be abating this fee.

Okay. Mister Brick, your appeal has been granted as a result of the fact that the city feels that they do not have enough evidence to sustain what they're saying you did not do. So that is the end of this.

Okay. Great. But if you don't mind me adding one thing, please. This has happened at this property at least 10 times since I purchased it. 10 times, I've cleaned it up on my dime when it wasn't my tenants, wasn't anything to do with me.

And the city per up one of those cameras that I see in parking lots, looks like they're with the police as a deterrent to stop people from constantly doing this because as a landlord, I went through reconciliation of my expenses. I have spent over $3,000 cleaning up after other people to not get fined from the city. I'm asking and begging, can something be done with security cameras to prevent this as a deterrent?

Okay. Mister, can you check It's Oh, I'm sorry, mister Brick. I didn't wanna interrupt.

My apologies. This is gonna be ongoing. This is gonna continuously happen several more times.

Well, it's been noted in Milwaukee Journal. It's been noted actually in several newscasts. Miss Brick, could I mean, miss Gallup, could you relay that to your superiors concerning mister Brick's testimony today?

Yes, mister chair. After kind of viewing all of the solid waste violations and the area itself, we will provide, some guidance to my superiors and and hope that there could be something done in that area.

Mister Britt, can you reach out to, can you reach out to my office?

I'm sorry?

I was saying can you reach out to my office? Sure.

41 that's alderman Jack it's alderman Jackson. Alderman Jackson, would you give me your phone number, please?

Yeah. (414) 286-2863. I've been doing area doing work in this area. Hopefully, I get you into the First Alert Neighbor program, which provide cameras in the front and the back of property and work with the police as well in that area. Give my officer a call, and I'll get you in the program.

Thank you.

That'd be awesome. Thank you.

Thank you, mister Brick.

Alright.

Now gonna move to item number 18, the appeal of Tiffany BioSticker. Miss BioSticker, are you in Zoom? Are you there in person? It is now now 10:31. At this time, I'll entertain a motion for denial based on that appearance. Do I have a motion?

Motion.

Motion by Alderman Jackson. Do I have a second?

Second.

Second by mister Yandell. Any objections? Hearing none, so order. For vote number 19, the appeal of Martha Cooper. Miss Cooper, are you with us?

Again, it is 10:31. I'll entertain a motion for nonappearance. Do I have a motion?

Hold on, mister chair. You could go forward with your motion, but this one I actually worked on. First, I sent the group over to, this woman's house to clear a yard of the flood debris, and, they bagged everything. I'm looking at everything, but I don't have any pictures. But, a group I sent over there during the the flood time and during the cleanup time, during the resources time, they did they did about several houses in my district, and I think this is one of them. I'm very familiar with the name, but I just don't wanna do it while they're not here. So go for a promotion, but this is something I actually worked on personally to get it's taken care of during the time of the flood and when there's lot of debris and everything outside of yards.

Well, Alderman Jackson, I guess I asked this question of you. Would you be more, amenable to a motion to adjourn for hold hold for the call of the chair concerning what you just relayed to us?

Yes.

K. At this time, I have a motion by Alderman Jackson to hold us for the call of the chair due to the fact that he has personal knowledge of a group of individuals that are trying to remediate the situation. Do I have a second?