Business Improvement District Board #2 (historic Third Ward) - Regular Meeting

Call to order the regular meeting of the historic preservation commission from Monday, December 8 two thousand twenty five zero 1PM. Yeah. I'm Alden Baumacher of the committee. Please call the roll.

Anne P. Brice and Brown. Here. Sally Peltz.

Excuse.

Nicholas Hans Robinson.

Here.

Tricia Keating Khan. Here. Matt Giroz. Here. Jordan Morales. Excuse. Robert Baldwin.

Here. Alright. We have a quorum. We'll jump right into the agenda. First item is file 251,026 resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for storefront replacement at 235 South 2nd Street in the 2nd South 2nd Street Historic District for Borger Buildings LLC.

It went down. Okay.

So South 2nd is our one of our oldest commercial districts. Most of the buildings including this one are from the 1850s. So proposed is some storefront and window renovation for the Ground Floor including the 2nd Street face and the Oregon Street face. What we have now, the South storefront is from about 2000. The paneled in storefront as best we can tell is from the 1970s. I would have loved to have the old drawings, but they have not been located even for 2000.

It

looks like I would say it looks like Paul Jakobovich was consulted on the South storefront, but he certainly didn't design it. It's not up to his level of detail, but it feels like someone spoke to him about it. So get into the design here. It's the concept is okay, but the details are not there. The proportions of the storefront are off and not in scale according to our guidelines.

While the transoms do the proposed transoms do align with this newer center entry, what the feds were thinking when they approved that center entry, have no idea. That transom should not be so tall. That door is inappropriate to the 1850s. The door should not be flushed with the wall. But this all happened before we designated it. Is that

the door to the 2nd Floor basically?

Yes. Okay.

Yes.

Not their project. No. Not their completely different architects. So yes, what we do have proposed doesn't match what little we know of historic conditions. We do have some conceptual stuff from traditional designs.

But this photo on the right here, this is the best photo we have of the front of that building. You can tell all the storefronts are recessed, but that's about it. Standard three foot doors are not appropriate to an eight feet and 50 storefronts and particularly since these are not accessible entrances, it does not have to be this way. Double doors can be inserted. These doors cannot be made accessible anyway because there is a step up.

So double doors should be used. Details on the metal doors do not align with divisions of the bulkhead and glass. The rails on the door are too thick and create an awkward appearance. And the proportions of the sections of the facade do not follow the scale established by historic columns. Nothing seems to relate to the points and details in the capitals in the base of the column.

And thus there is no visual connection between any portion of the storefront system and the details on the columns. So we have our good for business that states it is possible to create a historic storefront out of modern aluminum store front. I don't think it that this amount of 100% prefab metal is what Jacobovich meant when he said that. I think he went mostly the glass component and the glass framing. I don't think it is possible to match the details of a true period 1850s storefront with modern aluminum.

You just can't get the layering and the depth and the precision of corners. And this design also constitutes a degradation of the quality of the materials of the South Storefront. While we can't require that the South Storefront be retained since it is not original, it is a higher material quality than is being proposed here. The commission has generally not allowed decreases in material quality even when things are not historic. So finally, bulkhead detailing, as you can see on the bottom here is just it's too simple and you can't get the detail level required with pressed metal there.

It can be accomplished with wood. And in newer buildings tile,

but that would you would have to

get past 1,900 for tile to be an acceptable bulkhead. Only carefully constructed trimmed tailing would be

of of construction the

She has informed me she owns every other building on this block face. So she is on record as opposed to this metal storefront and the proportions of it. And also politely requests, although we cannot require it, that they have their main entrance in the South Storefront because it is too close to her tenant which had already fills up the sidewalk on brunch mornings. So I'm recommending a hold or a denial to the loose concept is okay, but there's a lot of work to do here.

Okay. So you are representing the ownership?

Am representing the architecture firm and ownership, yes.

Okay. Why don't you identify yourselves for the record?

I am Misty Rodberg, part of one of the lead architects from Anderson Ashton.

My name is Mike Newman, Director of Architecture at Anderson Ashton. Okay. So your reaction to their commentary?

I really appreciate it. I do understand that it's 1850s construction in the Italian aid. We were trying our best to work within the fact that the current wood storefront is starting to show dry rot and having to be replaced. So that was part of the reason that we were having to do the storefront in those pieces as well for the new occupancy and also trying our hardest to keep what we could of under yes, it's hard to find information for how with the Italian aid and really trying to do those proportions due diligence. So I do appreciate Tim's back and forth input that he's given us.

I am I would really like to get a little bit more information if we go away from a metal storefront. Is there a recommendation of a couple other systems we could use instead that would keep the character? And also looking to see what we could provide to, again, to be able to occupy the building and not leave it unoccupied. It's not been occupied or used for such a long period of time. So we're trying to help it bring back the fabric of the building.

So I don't know what else to say. Everything he said absolutely aligns, but I'm not understanding what we can do. I do have front of the building, but that was after the storefront was removed. Sadly, in the 1930s, they completely ripped out 90% of that. And all I have is bricked in with a security glass block. It's the only photo that I have at the front.

Yeah. The the oblique angle, three or four of three or four oblique angles were all I could find for earlier too.

That that was it. And that that was like So we were able to do try to do justice on the side that we could see that oblique angle. Yeah, it was completely bricked in with security glass and everything. I I I did the best I could to bring it back. So I'm I'm curious what we could do because, again, we we don't want to torpedo the project. We do want to do the due diligent. We then we we do hold your guys' expertise in high regard. So

It does look like that North storefront in this photo is somewhat intact.

It was, but it's gone.

Yeah.

So I can see what kind of see what you were modeling after now. Yeah.

Yeah. Understood.

What is that for you?

Gonna This will occupy the entire 1st Floor? Yes. So wrap around the staircase going to the 2nd Floor basically? That's second that staircase, I assume, goes straight up from that center door. Correct? Yes.

It does. And it was two separate buildings with a stair tower between that in, I believe, the 1970s era is when they thought that it kind of had where it got combined into one entity. So there's a north side and the south side.

Because this post recently was used at a restaurant if I'm not mistaken. Correct?

I'm not certain.

I think so. So your your goal is to pattern the entire storefront for both bays after the what's kind of still there?

The best we could.

Well, that makes sense. But what's there now is all wood construction, it appears.

And we were having dry rot issues so that was the suggestion of maybe looking into something that was metal would look but had better maintenance possibility but either way to get it built would be.

Well I mean that's to me judging from the photograph a nice coating of linseed oil and good primer or varnish I think you are back in business with that door. It might not be stainable anymore but it is certainly paintable.

Yes. Right. I would I think part of the problem was that it probably should have been painted in the first place and not stained in that environment.

Right.

Okay. Well the recommendation is a whole any commentary from commission?

I'd move to hold and have you work with Tim and Andrew to get those details hammered out.

Appreciate it.

Okay. The motion is to hold and call the chair. Any second on that

motion? Second.

Any further discussion?

Second.

Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All right. Thank you. Moving on to item two, file 251,002 20 two resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for retroactive approval for vinyl replacement windows at 2311 North Sherman Boulevard in the Sherman Boulevard Historic District for Michael and Ruthie Gins. All right. What we have here.

Great. Thanks. We have got the Frank Kudicek house 1912 Dutch Colonial Revival on Sherman Boulevard. In October, a few months ago, the property owner received a violation for vinyl replacements without a certificate of appropriateness. I know we've been having a lot of these in this general area lately. So this is kind of falls along along the lines of what we have seen, you know, in the past few months, another applicant wishing to do an after the fact approval for vinyl windows.

So

the preservation guidelines for Sherman Boulevard state to avoid discarding original windows, doors, door hardware when they can be repaired or reused. The applicant wasn't able to provide any evidence that the existing original windows were deficient in any way. Though we did indicate that they had had concerns about some of the lead paint on the windows. The preservation guidelines also advised to respect stylistic period or periods that a building represents and that if replacement of windows, sashes or doors is necessary, the replacement should duplicate the appearance and design of the original window or sash. The original windows that were moved were fixed pane wood sash windows and then wood one over one double hung sashes that had aluminum storm windows.

Again, there is no evidence that they were deteriorated or needed to be removed. HPCs never approved vinyl replacement windows. Here are some of the windows that were replaced. So all in all, 12 windows were replaced with these vinyl double hung windows. Staff recommends denial of the approval of the windows.

Is the owner here? Yes. Oh, hi. Good morning. Good afternoon.

Michael Chimes.

Pretty much open and shut case here. Well, the windows I mean, we bought the house in 2004, and a lot of the original windows work on. I mean, there was aluminum storms on the top which were falling out, and the wood was rotted. So we've been paying these high electric bills and utility bills. We put a new furnace in, and that didn't help. And so this house is so full of lead, and that is the upstairs. We bought the house with the understanding that we could change the windows as long as we don't change the structure openings. Because Who told you that? Well, of course, the realtor told me that, but

Well, they don't know what they're talking about. Right. I mean but okay. Again have no authority to bind the council or bind the commission.

I'm not saying that, but I've been there we've been there twenty one years, and never have we been given guidelines for doing anything. So, you know, being there twenty one years and never getting guidelines on what we can and cannot do, We're just going on what we do.

Are are you a general contractor? No. Who who installed the windows for you? Window Nation. I'd call I'd call Window Nation. They they should know better. They should know to check if property's historic before selling windows. I told them

they were it was in the historic

Oh, you told them that as well.

And so the windows is there. It resembles the aluminum storms that were in there. And I thought that having more energy efficient and the design like the aluminum storms would would be appropriate without changing the structure openings.

Okay. Well, as I said, this is pretty much an open and shut case because had you come to this body seeking a certificate of appropriateness for vinyl windows, you would have been denied.

Had I known I mean, like I said, I've been there twenty one years and no guidelines have ever been given to us about what we can do.

I mean, we've HPCs sent out reminders to property owners throughout the years. Alderman Stampers held two meetings for Sherman Boulevard and Grand Boulevard last winter. So all the residents were alerted You

are going to appeal this to the council but is there any motions?

Go ahead.

Move to deny.

I'll second.

Oh, so the the motion is to deny the COA. It's been made and seconded. Any further discussion?

What did we do?

Yeah. Put win wood windows back in.

Is there a a a fund of something for

doing that? No. You you no. No. So the motion is made and seconded. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Alright.

So we are making it clear though that he can appeal to the common council. Correct? Does he understand Absolutely. Okay.

I I would call Windows Nation and ask them to if you told them it was historic, Windows Nation, I think, is a bigger outfit. They poke with them.

I'll let them know that it

was Absolutely. Yeah. Okay.

Thank Item three, file two 51226, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for removal of an elevator shaft at February, St. Mary's Hospital, an individually designated historic property for Ascension Columbia St. Mary's Hospital.

All right.

Thanks. So St. Mary's Hospital built 1908 to 1910 designed by the Buffalo, New York firm Essenwine and Johnson, the neoclassical style. Hospital building was locally designated in 2002. The applicants are seeking to remove an external elevator shaft from the north facade of the building.

It's in the interior U shaped portion of the building. So here is an aerial and we've marked the elevator shaft location in red there. Some context shots. So this is the elevator shaft, likely from the 1950s, but it's showing some pretty severe deterioration decay. The brick is falling.

The metal supports are corroded and falling away from elevator shaft. It's held together with steel braces that are detached and broken. The hospital is no longer using the elevator shaft is our understanding. So taking a look at the demolition request, there are conditions in our preservation guidelines to support demolition. The condition.

The photos provided by the applicants show that there's considerable deterioration separating of the brick and corrosion. Number two would be its importance, consideration given to whether or not its historical or architectural significance. The elevator shaft appears to be a later addition and pretty utilitarian in design. Three is its location. The elevator shaft is located within the center U shaped portion of the building.

It's not visible from the right of way. At one point in time, there was a 1951 addition to the hospital that further obscured the elevator shaft from view on Lake Drive. Number four, its potential for restoration. The elevator shaft could be reconstructed in full though there's no use for it. So it doesn't seem necessary to do that.

And five additions whether or not this demolition is of a later addition. And though no permits were located for the elevator shaft, the applicants indicated it likely dates to the 1950s. So Seth is recommending approval where the shaft is removed would be restored with brick to match the historic exterior. Exterior. So the condition of approval would be our standard masonry condition.

Okay. Any questions, comments from who you guys all represent whom, the contractor, architects, who exactly? Contractor. Architect engineer. Essential. Okay. Why don't you identify yourselves for the record so you can be Brian Weicker, Regional Director for Facilities for Ascension.

Oh sorry. You said one of you. Nabil Razi with ONS Associates, Architects and Generations.

Aaron Ellis Garcia, Tremco, WTI.

Okay. You guys good with the conditions?

Yes. All right.

Your motion?

Move to approve.

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All right.

You are good

to go. Thank you. Moving on to item four, file 251,234 resolution relating to appropriateness for roof replacement at 2543 North 47th Street in the forty seventh Street bungalow historic district for Rodney Kennel and Brian? Quappel. Quappel. Alright.

Great. Thank you.

So

we have got the Fred C. And Albina Barco House on the 47th Street Bungalow Historic District. This bungalow constructed in 1927. You can see that it's got in this street view photo asbestos cement tile roof. The house suffered a lightning strike in September which blew up the chimney and also severely damaged the roof.

Staffs recommended or issued this in the certificate of appropriateness to rebuild the the chimney currently. So the property owners are here seeking replacement material for their roof. It's my understanding that they both don't want an asphalt roof and that their insurance company has agreed to cover a more expensive material for the roof. An asphalt dimensional shingle would not really work with the architectural style and with the historic roofing material. Though obviously in asbestos roofing tile is no longer manufactured.

There are so they are proposing to Okay. So they are proposing replacing it with this Brava synthetic slate material. It's a polymer option and they provided an example of the blind horse seller in Cedarburg that had these shingles installed. So this is a photograph of this material installed locally on a property in Cedarburg. The Brava Old World is one of several polymer options that exist.

Though there are also the clay and concrete options on the market that are not synthetic, not a polymer option but can probably more closely more closely match the existing asbestos tile roof. The preservation guidelines for the district recommend that if replacement is necessary to duplicate the appearance of the original roofing as closely as possible. One of these options, clay or the concrete options are going to have a thicker profile than the Brava is going to. It will most more closely match the material that's already installed. So with that in mind, the staff is recommending denial of the Brava product though with the suggestion that if their insurance company will not pay for a clay or a concrete tile that we would reluctantly be okay with the synthetic option.

How does this play with our recent rule change regarding high end roofs as a percentage of assessed value?

I haven't taken a look at the assessed value or there wasn't a cost provided from the applicant for the Bravo?

We have that and this is our contractor, thoughtful craftsman.

Okay. We have a rule that says if the cost of a roof replacement exceeds what is the percentage?

40%? Up to 40% I believe is what

we have.

If exceeds 40% of the assessed value then you can go with alternative materials. What is the assessed value here?

238,000 and the it came back at 135,000 for the roof plus 10,000 for new decking, which

Speak into the mic.

Oh, sorry about that. Yeah. The estimate was 136,000 for the roof to be replaced. We are gonna do all copper gutters. We're doing the high back copper gutters. We have been stewards of the house for fourteen years and so we've Thoughtful Craftsman has been repairing the 98 year old roof during that time and has replaced copper valleys and copper gutters for us. Right. But yeah. So the house current assessment, I believe, is about 238,000. Cost of the roof is 136,000 with about an additional $10,000 that they discovered that the new decking has to be put in before the roof can be put on.

And our insurance company, luckily, we paid for full replacement value on the house. We have West Bend. West Bend has been amazing. The house is insured for 917,000 replacement. This is a home in Sherman Park. It's not on the lakeshore. So we have a $917,000 replacement right now with the lightning strike with all the electrical that's being replaced. Seven rooms inside the house have got have got to be replastered, and they are keeping the plaster. They are repairing the plaster. New electrical.

The chimney is $29,000. The scaffolding to put in the chimney is $8,000. So we are at $220,000 already for a house that has an assessment of 238,000.

Okay.

That's a two restoring.

That's pretty nice. And they're paying for your new roof?

They are. Yeah. We have the letters of approval from from West Bend. So and all the internals. So, I mean, it's it's a $60,000 already for just the internal repairs.

Who's doing your wet plaster work?

It's all through Kellman restoration and so they've they've hired everyone. But this happened in September and we have been meeting with the claims representative Matt from West Bend and we were just amazed that they they have just they've they've approved everything which is just

kind I'd be amazed.

Crazy. Yes. How did you get them to ensure I'm sure you're amazing. So they they did look at having slate put on the roof. The estimate for slate was $280,000 and an engineering study was going to be required because the concrete shingles, I believe, have a weight of about 400 pounds per square.

And these Brava, and we've looked all over for shingles, so the Brava has three eleven pounds per square. So if we did go with a heavier material as historic preservation is suggesting, there would have to be an engineering study to the house in order to see if it could support the weight.

Is the house habitable now or you have to move out?

The house is habitable.

Oh, okay. So you're living there.

We we are living there. In in one of the bedrooms, that's going to have to be completely replastered. But the master suite that had the chimney chase, So I was there. Brian was already downstairs. I was there when the lightning struck and the light fixtures inside the house in the master bedroom illuminated

Oh my.

From the strike and it came down the chimney. The chimney is cracked all the way down to the foundation and that's why it's gonna be 29,000 to replace the chimney and it is going to be replaced to the the style. And we did find the brick. We they actually found a match to the brick. Brick. The existing brick that is aged. So it is an aged brick that will match our current ninety eight year old home.

The chimney cap, which was the original stone, landed 60 feet away from the house.

Oh, debris shot a 150 feet away from the house.

It was

on every neighbor, the front street. It was crazy.

Lucky it didn't hit someone.

Luckily, nobody was killed and didn't damage anyone else's property. Bricks landed in the Street on 47th Street but didn't damage any cars.

They were in the bushes of both our neighbors houses underneath all their windows.

Oh my goodness.

Not a single window that was

broken. Amazing.

Oh, did you have lighting arresters? I suppose not.

They do and we are we are the largest or excuse me. We are the tallest home in that area. And so Milwaukee Police Department has a shot spotter on our roof. Oh, really? For triangulating. Good. I guess.

Do they pay you for that?

No. We we pay for the electricity for it. We just thought it was very good that we help with the crime happening in Sherman Park.

Wow.

And so and I used to work with here's a side note. Used to work for Lowe's and so we were involved with restoration of Sherman Park. I I I brought in I brought in hot spotter hard hardwired? It's hardwired. Yeah. So we pay a monthly electric bill just to maintain that.

That could have been the attraction for the light.

It it could be, but it didn't get destroyed.

Interesting.

Yeah. They tested it and it's it's still good. It's still on the back of the house.

Amazing. Interesting.

So we we have done a lot of research with this and we did look at the other materials. But, yeah, as as you're Andrew. Correct? As Andrew stated, it is a a taller material material than what this is here.

What's the weight? You said you already figured out what the weight difference Yeah.

We're about 400 pounds right now per square and this comes in at three eleven pounds per square. So it's a little bit lighter.

And the new or the actual concrete material or slate material is

The slate came back at 900 pounds per square which would require an engineering study and definitely Yeah.

You'd need to beef up the rafts.

Would have required a lot of work the attic and probably So the only

alternative there are either this material or going with slate?

No, we recommended either the clay option or a concrete option.

Okay.

The concrete is probably comparable in weight. The clay, I'm sure the cost would be unreasonable regardless of weight, but the concrete is

probably comparable. Comparable to slate. Comparable to this. Oh, in weight? Yes. Okay.

And we've worked with a historic consultant in Michigan and we've also worked with Brava. So with this exact material is being put on a courthouse in Illinois where Abraham Lincoln used to practice law. It's and it also went on to a home in Waukesha this past summer. Their historic preservation committee approved it. And then again, as you said, with Cedarburg, Cedarburg has approved its use now also.

Well, this has become an increasingly problematic area. These synthetic products, which are made to look like natural products, but they are less expensive, less lighter weight theoretically.

I mean do we I mean this house never had slight opening, just making that clear.

Well, what's the commission's thoughts on this?

What was the original material?

Undoubtedly, the asbestos cement, but it does tend to last that long.

What's the year that it was built?

1927.

Oh, possible.

And we have had it restored. We had copper valleys restored. Some of the cement tiles did shift, and they have been repositioned, put back in, but the the electrical strike caused way too much damage for even any type of restoration.

So, Tim, you said here install if the property insurance company will not cover the cost of a more appropriate concrete or clay tile. Has that been investigated?

I am not sure if they have worked with their their contractor said that their property insurer was willing to cover a higher cost material, so that is why they have suggested the problem.

Well, that is a reasonable condition because it wouldn't be out of your pocket in theory. Yes. If we the staff recommendation is that we deny a COA for this product unless it turns out that your insurer will not cover the cost of a more expensive appropriate product in which case you can go with this product. So that means you are held harmless cost wise.

And

if you give your insurance carrier a nudge saying, hey, if you deny this, we are fucking good.

Okay. Alright. Yeah, I wasn't, you know, I mean, we can definitely look at the concrete version. And what was the weight per square on the concrete that you're recommending?

I have samples in the basement of this building with that data on it, sense

We're We're to above and beyond the normal call of duty. I can tell you that versus going what we normally hear coming in here of regular homeowners. Yeah. And and properties or the like.

And then a side note, I mean, the the house was featured in the Milwaukee Journal in 2012 when we first moved here. We moved here from New York and Brian was director of guest services at the art museum when we moved here.

Okay.

So yeah, so there was and we've maintained a lot of the interior of the home and restored. We had in the dining room, we had all of the plaster moldings inside restored and then coming up in January, we already had arranged the plaster moldings in the living room are being restored.

Wow. Thanks. You have to have an open house when this is done.

Alright. You guys did they identify themselves? We have here.

Oh, I don't think we did.

I guess okay. We got it. We're good.

We're good.

Because you're the applicants. Right? And what firm do you represent? Apple Craftsman. Okay. Very good. The roofing division, not the carpentry division.

I represent all the divisions.

All right.

Very good. Okay.

Okay. All right. So the motion is to deny this while the so basically the motion is to accept the staff report recommendation. Yes. Is there a second? Effect?

I'll make the motion. Yeah.

Is there a second?

Second. All

in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Alright. Thank you again for your commendable work. Alright.

Thank you. Alright. Thanks.

Is it a denial? Yes.

Because the insurance company wanna see that denial.

It's probably Yeah.

So we gotta deny it.

It it denied it.

Oh. Letter Reworded

it or something.

Staff report says deny. And he said accept.

Whatever. It's a deny. Alright. Well, we'll. I'll

accept the motion to reconsider this item.

So moved.

There's is there a second? Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Alright. If that before us the proper motion would be to deny the application for a COA based on the conditions of the staff report.

Right. And I'm going to make that motion.

Do you a second second to that? Second. All in favor say aye.

Aye. All

right. Now we should have this position. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Wordology. Okay. Moving on to item five, file 251,241 resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for an entrance canopy on Wells Street, various secondary entrance canopies and alterations to the north wing at the University Club at 9.4 East Wall Street and individually designated property for Northwestern Mutual. Good morning everybody. Good afternoon.

So Northwestern Mutual continues their restoration of this building, they have some further requests of changes to be done to accommodate new uses, some of which are all of which are could be feasible. So we have four pieces here, a canopy over the formal entrance on Wells Street, a canopy over parking structure entrance on Prospect, a canopy over a rear service area and adding eight feet to the height of the north addition. So the university club was constructed in 1926 to the designs of internationally renowned architect John Russell Pope. At this point in his career, he had prepared master plans for the campuses of Yale University and Dartmouth College, the Abraham Lincoln Birthplace Memorial Building, Richmond Union Station and the Woolworth Mausoleum. He will go on later to do even bigger projects such as the Jefferson Memorial and the National Archives.

This however this was his only Wisconsin commission. However, he was responsible for the first reconstruction of the Saint Joan Of Arc Chapel when it was first brought from France to New York. He was I believe he had already passed by the time it was moved to Marquette. So there are as mentioned, there are four proposals here that need review. However, staff feels that only one has the potential to have a significant impact on the building, that being this one over the front. So

we are going to

go over the guidelines here. Quoting the relevant sections, the open terrace along Prospect And Wells elevations of University Club shall not be enclosed or filled in or removed as this is a major design feature of the building. Trim and ornamentation, there should be no changes to existing trim or ornamentation except as necessary to restore the building to its original condition. No additions will be permitted on the Wells Street or prospect elevations of the building as these are the primary facades. So that more or less covers the front of the building.

What they are doing to the parking annex is a notable improvement. Aligning the windows logically so that they fit better into the Georgia Revival style, adding this canopy over the Port Cochere to a building that is already from frankly use some upgrades deeply set back from prospect deeply set back from Wells in this back corner of their Wells Street parking lot is just this little black roof over the rear service door. So far back and so small as to be inconsequential.

So

back to the potentially controversial one. 15 feet above grade, 18 feet wide and 25 feet deep. It's probably the best design that could be fit into this place for this purpose. But the question is for the commission whether you think this is an appropriate change to the building and whether you think this constitutes an addition within the intent of the guidelines. Staff is recommending approval on all changes except the Well Street Canopy and is not taking a position on the Well Street Canopy.

Does that canopy fit the period of construction and the style of construction?

No. Based on the drawings and precedent images they submitted, it's I would call it neo art nouveau.

Yes, These look like the Paris subway entrance.

Yes. And it is differentiated which is necessary but I think anything would be differentiated here.

Yes, I'll tell you that looks weird. If that's a new historical standard or term of art, but that looks strange on that building.

Shall I introduce myself?

Yes, please.

Hi, I'm Michael DiMichel. I'm at 2639 North Downer Avenue and I'm the owners representative for Northwestern Mutual here. I'm joined with two architects and designers from Taylor Slater, who are the architect of record. And thank you for taking a look at this today. We are Northwestern Mutual is converting and renovating this property to a very high degree into a boutique luxury hotel.

This Wells Street entrance is going to be the main public entrance to the hotel and really requires some as many hotels do some kind of coverage in order to help provide some protection from the weather, the elements, what have you to guests that are arriving here, getting out of their car, having their luggage and whatnot and also that's where the valet is. So in order to provide we really need to provide some kind of canopy here. There was when it was a university club, fabric canopy. There was other things and it's a tough situation given the balcony that's there and the limited amount of space to build the canopy. The buildings some of the outstanding features of this building, the ones that are really predominant are these arched windows and obviously the brick and the Georgian, it's a very Georgian structure.

I don't think that the design that is being presented is really a Beaux Arts solution. I think that that some of the precedent images that he referenced were kind of of that era. But I think what we're trying to achieve is a balance between something that is contemporary because it's not supposed to necessarily follow the historic context of the building. It's not supposed to be like, okay, let's try to design something that would be of '19, I can't remember the Building 20, okay. Let's try not to do that.

Why wouldn't you do that?

Well, You wouldn't. But at the same time, this building, the elegance of the facade on this building also will reject something more contemporary and stripped down. The solution here I think is a balance. It's really trying to balance that between something that is minimalistic. There's not a lot of detail on it.

There's not a lot of there's no decoration if you will. But also relate to the building. It's trying to be as transparent and light as possible, but it's also trying to get to the edge of the sidewalk and do a lot of coverage. The other thing that it's going to do is it's going to house some heaters and things that you would see in a situation when you pull up to a very nice fancy hotel. These things that need to be there in order to help melt the snow and keep the valet guys and the bellman warm and whatnot while you're waiting for your ride.

It to perform a lot of functions. So we really did work to try to make it if you see how glassy it is and how transparent it is, you'll be able to see the details and the building through it. And really what's trying to relate to the building is the shape relative to the arched windows. So it looks like it belongs, but it's not necessarily mimicking if you will. So that was the challenge here and it really was quite a challenge to get something that both fit, that wasn't mimicking, that wasn't overly decorative.

And this is a significant it's a significant structure to build in order to achieve the weather protection that we really need to have for something of the magnitude of the project that we're doing. So that was kind of the challenge. And we do think that we've met the challenge and that this is a really good balance for all those things. And it also, if you look at that one relative to the one on wells, they also speak to each other. So that I think is also part of the challenge is to get these is to make sure both of these two things on the building are appropriate and are relative to one another and to the building.

Okay. Comments from the commission?

You said the one on well, do you mean the one on prospect?

I mean not prospect. Okay. This is

the one on wells. I meant the one on prospect.

You were doing two. Which is?

Thanks Matt. Similar steel finish and so forth but rectilinear relative relative to the belly with this one being curved. The form and the shape is pretty dramatic, that curve coming out, that's for sure. Yes. And, it seems like that's your, in some ways, your desire here as opposed because there could be a way, I suppose, of doing it just like a rectilinear like the one in Prospect, you know, where it's just kind of a slightly stepped fascia piece and that's it.

We have other examples, but they weren't as good. What

about this one? What about this very last picture here? Do we interrupt? But you have a rendering here on the very last. It was very, very simple. Maybe that one. That's representing the same design.

It's the same design just from a different view. I

see.

So it is again, it is we are trying to keep it as light and as minimal as possible.

So I think the thing that's kind of messing with the console is in this perspective because of the curvilinear, you know, that that Art Nouveau, you know, kind of feeling I spent, you know, quite a bit of time in Paris. And it really is a emotion provoking design near that. I think, overall, I think that does I mean, it's a beautiful addition to the building, but I think a lot of times, you know, just as a fellow architect, we struggle with the concept of what is the period of significance when it comes to buildings that have been added on over time. Right? So with this one, to select something that isn't necessarily, you know, historically accurate as opposed to when the actual original building was built and then to select just in error that matches.

I think that's what we're all kinda struggling with because from this perspective, everybody's like, oh, that could work. It's because they're imagining something rectilinear, but with the same profile, sort of like that. Yeah. If you go back to that one with the side entry where the the carports are. So not this entry at all, but

the one that shows getting there.

Okay. That one. So, technically, we wouldn't know if this was curving out at us if those were straight on perspective. Right? So everybody's like, oh, yeah. That seems very appropriate. I think that's what everybody's struggling with right now is because of the curvilinear nature of that other entry. That really match. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like, I that's what

I do. But I also I also when you look at the the the addition that this particular prospect one is put on, it's a simpler addition with rectangular punched windows. And so I think that the rectangular canopy seems to go better with that those rectangular windows in this because it almost stands alone. And then when you get over to Wells Street though, you have those majorly dramatic arched three arched windows that are double they're taller and they just they have such a strong position on the building and such a strong, I guess, image to what you're walking up to. This the rectangular shape did not seem to hold as true on the well side.

I can

understand what you're talking about. That's all was saying. Those buildings have been added on over time. Was trying to select a significant period to mimic. What you're basically saying is, hey. There's a dominant feature on this facade that you're designing, you know, this more, you know, stylistic canopy, and you're ultimately speaking to that. So I understand where you're coming from.

Right.

Thank you. And I think more so, I was just like, I'm the guy in the council that really tries to decipher where we are so we can try to figure out where we wanna go. So I think right now, I think what people are struggling with are just the fact that this canopy does indeed speak to a specific feature that they might not see as as significant in the design of this over office side, if that

makes sense.

I just

So I

don't know where the concept goes

with not to I I agree

Say something here too.

I'm not opposed to the concept of a canopy and whether it's circular or square. What I'm struggling with is that that particular one thing that looks like it's up and it's going to be blocking the facade of the building. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. It looks like it's ringing up from the building. Is that an extension?

It does have well, we to get the water off it. So it is sloping back to the building yet because it will go to some the water will go into some gutters and then go into some internal conductors. The water will get taken away it does tip back, but it's not really it's It's

minimal fast. Just

for water. Yes.

Okay. When I look at the drawings, it looks dead flat.

Yeah. It only needs enough.

Can see the exterior elevation COE side. So somehow that's been turned back to

Correct.

Yeah. I think the perspective, like, being up that close and with the rendering program, what it's gonna do is make that perspective a lot more dramatic up close. So this is probably a lot more

Yeah. You

know, out out one that you just had. Yeah. That's probably the level of pitching, you know, that you're gonna see. It was that perspective that's kinda from the side that you just showed a second ago. That probably shows the actual pitch of the canopy a lot better, especially this one from the front. I am we totally understand. It's super glassy, so you're not hiding any gutters anywhere else. It's literally the actual structure that's gonna act as the water transfer. I totally get that. Mhmm.

So, I mean, to be honest with you personally, it even though it's dramatic, I don't mind it, but I do understand the sentiments of my fellow committee members when it comes down to this is a very bold move, and, you know, it's kinda something that has to kinda be accepted if that's what's going to be the move.

You have another perspective image. Can you go to the next one and hit from there? That one. Yeah. Like, it's pretty dramatically sloping back to the building. Part of that is because drawings, I don't is see pretty flat in your drawings.

Direction, so it is arched and curving and

slight. It

like barrel vault and it is modeled flat.

Yeah. It only needs to go, you know, quarter inch per foot probably back to the building.

Can you tell me a little bit that's is this like are these French balcony? Is that what that is? That's another odd condition. You have the canopy and you have that kind of

That's right.

Three feet of balcony or something. And then I noticed that's on the front facade or on the other facade of Prospect. Right? Can you open the windows? Is that or what?

Yeah. They're Juliet balconies. They're they're basically

Juliet or front balcony.

Right? Yes. Correct.

They're you can open whatever, your French doors and feels like you're in a balcony. So is that what happens out there? You can open the windows or No. Okay.

Those windows go all the way to the floor. There used to be heater boxes that were about 3.5 feet tall in front of them. Those are we can remove. So it's quite dramatic when you are inside. Those windows will go to the floor and you will be able to see right The

other thing, it does seem to be a pretty long canopy. Now, you have, you're showing, you know, the tensile support back to the building, but you're also going to need something for upward force, too, so you're going have a little bit more force than we see there. That's not just a tensile rod holding that down. You also have to prevent it from blowing up, as you guys know. I want to mention this also to the commission, too.

Some of these are rather difficult, you know, to analyze these kind of proposals because they are a little bit unusual. You want it to kind of be seen and you want it to kind of add a little bit life to the thing, I think Nick was saying. The other thing that I like to also rely on very much so is the kind of reversibility of these kinds of things. Okay, that ultimately at some point you haven't done damage to the building proper. You haven't removed terracotta, stone, you haven't gouged into the existing, and if for some reason five or ten years, some other time, I tend to be a little bit more open minded about architectural appendages, maybe that don't totally represent the building.

You know, I mean, it's not you don't just kinda look at this thing as many of us wouldn't go. Now, there's a proper Georgian colonial brick and pilaster building and be done with it, and you have some sort of a parapet and decorative parapet and so forth. It has a rather odd element on top of it.

That's a nineteen fifties edition.

Yeah. So, in some ways, the purity of this whole thing, I don't want to use the word compromise, that's a tough word, but I mean the kind of purity of this as a style representation is compromised a little bit because of that and kind of some of the other things that are going on. I'm tending towards this kind of position of saying it is unusual, you know, and it is maybe in some regards not confusing the viewer that this might be part of the original building, which is kind of an important aspect of preservation and adaptive reuse too, is that you're not kind of faking someone out that this is a 100 year old thing. But, does that mean we have the answer? No.

That's why we have a commission, because these things become kind of subjective, you know, on is it sensitive enough? And I think the Park Service staff talks about is it having a kind of a little bit of a discussion, you know, with the original build. You had mentioned the arched windows. I don't know that I would make that relationship so much, but certainly the big kind of curved, and I think Nick was saying the big the curvilinear thing on top of the roof starts to suggest that there's a a family of curvature here, you know, that's that's part of this building. It's not just a strict conventional, you know, Georgian, you know, sober building.

I mean, there's a little bit of a kind of an odd flare to it. So I tend to want to allow a little bit of freedom for architectural expression and signature, but I really want that to be in the context of reversibility. You know, you're not changing window openings, you're not extending parapets, you're not adding on a masonry, you know, that you do. Iron columns or anything like that to ease that long overhang? I mean, you're going have to went back into that existing building.

We haven't structurally engineered it yet. And so I mean at this point, we are going to be able to hit a floor with structural concrete behind the columns on where the tiebacks are. But we don't think it's going to need columns. It certainly if it did, we'd

have think to come have questions by the commission, but I think that's an important thing. It's a

point It's of

going be worked out for a while. So I might make a motion that we hold this to next month's meeting.

Okay.

And that you do the proper engineering, whoever your engineer is. Pierce or who's

It's ZS but we do have, I mean, it's going to come down to the size of Excuse the me. So ZS are the structural engineers.

ZS, yes. Okay.

And it has been engineered to the point where we're confident there's no columns. It's going to come down to the tie back sizes and whether or not we need cross bracing between the members. So columns have been ruled out at

this

point for structural engineering. There you go.

Okay. And Ziyad said those wires are going to hold this sucker up.

Yes. We're talking about the diameter of those bigger than this We talked about four inches potentially, which on the size of this canopy doesn't is actually isn't that large. It seems large to us when we hear four inches. But the whole point of engaging with them was to rule out

columns because I was No. And I just wanted to bring up that I think it is outstanding, gorgeous. I think that because it is now becoming is it a going to be a hotel, a public hotel?

Yes, ma'am.

Not just for Northwestern Mutual Everybody.

Business? Your family. That

instead of it being a men's club, which is was the original purpose of this building that was probably very sedate, etcetera. And now it's becoming something showy, something public, something very I suspect it's going to be costly to stay there and it's going to be something that's dramatic.

Something that Milwaukee does not yet have.

And that Milwaukee doesn't have. Have to tell you, it looks like something yes, you've used, you know, the French terminology in terms of and that's what it looks like. It looks like a little piece of Paris. And I think it is absolutely stunning. And in terms of the parking structure, it's just fine. It's just fine. You know, that is there never was a sense of a main entrance to the building all the years that I was a member. It was odd. Let's just put it that way. But odd because it was probably, you know, done in a very sedate manner.

It was very private. And now it's not gonna be private. And so this is all news to me that this is going to become a new hotel in the city. How many rooms?

35.

So that's quite elegant. 35 rooms and it's going to be used for private events?

Well, ballrooms will remain on the 2nd Floor. There will be a restaurant on the 6th Floor. It has

To the public?

Yes, sir. That's Well,

I think it's extraordinary. And I know how much work has gone into this building because otherwise the university club would still be there. But it obviously was unaffordable anymore. And so it had to be converted to a brand new concept. And if it wouldn't have been Northwestern Mutual, god only knows who might have come along, if anybody, because it was so there was so much maintenance work that needed to be done on this building. So I thank Northwestern Mutual, and I think it's pretty elegant. So I am in favor of this.

Okay. I do want to mention one thing also for the record because we never part of this still kind of bothers me to go by the auditorium and see that inappropriate lacy metalwork at the entrance of a public prairie style building. I would never have something like that on it. And that and after about three winters, if you recall, it started to rust. And that's a rusting mess up there.

So, I think that's Yeah. That's disgrace. And I wouldn't want this. Happen. But, anyway, we'd be looking for actually a round of good details, maybe acknowledgement from the engineer with confidence that there's not going to be all of a sudden some field change, you know, as the things being put up or that you have factory finishes and coatings and things like that, which I think you do.

I mean, when I make it larger, it looks like a pretty substantial piece of metal construction. Let's avoid that stuff they put at the auditorium, whatever the heck that was. You know

what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do.

And, it's attached, and when I blow it up, there's like an attachment to the limestone and so forth that you can see now in perspective, I guess you can see the drawing, you know, it's like, again, that kind of a little bit of a nod to that sort of French iron work, know, That's simpler. With the circle and

A

the bracket. Kind of looks Sally looks kind of interesting. Where is

she? No, here. It's, you know, and again, the other building that we are going to try to save, yeah, they ruined it by putting this very

Right. So I've been naturally very cautious about these sort of decorative features going on our historic buildings because that's such a disaster. But there like I said, I think there's a substantial quality to this thing and I think that careful engineering and construction and no compromises are really going to be important. But, I don't suspect Northwestern Mutual is going to compromise on this.

No. You're not. Can I ask these it looks like black brace brackets or are they rain gutters that are coming down from the edge on either side of the door?

I think that's the bracketing.

That's the bracketing. Where do the rain gutters go? Inside the building?

Yep. The water will come to the building and then will go into the building. Okay.

Well, just across the street is an AeroSeren and Kalatrava combination. Yeah. I think we can have a little interesting combination No,

so the

is the solarium for restaurant.

Right. Yep.

Correct. Which is also, it's white, not black, but I mean it does, so you have that kind of light metal, lacy vocabulary happening in that area. True. Good point.

Are you going to show us the interiors?

We have no scratches on the interior.

So the motion is to hold this to the call of the chair? That's motion you made? Yes. All right. Is there a second

to that motion? What's

the motion?

The

of Directors

January?

That would be okay from a timing perspective if that's

That's what you're biggest concern

for So in order for us to just get more real with the drawing and what is that are you going to review it, Matt?

I would be happy to review it. And even with these really good renderings, I don't know if it's software you guys use, still there is probably some other kinds of images just for the assurance that this thing isn't quite so cockeyed to the building.

So what I'd ask then is that we don't hold the other items.

Fair.

And that because we do need to move ahead on the annex, which is being raised slightly. So if you just want to do this and then if we can just work like we do in the 3rd Ward, Matt, with you on kind of details on this one here? Right. But conceptually, is it a conceptual on

that? Well,

yes, almost a step beyond conceptual. But I like that reference though to the Canopy now as it moves forward, Pete, analyze, I'll be happy to meet with those guys too, know, looking at it and if there is anything that we're really questioning, it will come back to the board for review. Okay. So there's something like a motion there. So I move that I make that motion. Okay.

The motion is to hold the item regarding the Wealth Street canopy approve the remaining items in the application.

Right.

Okay. Historic designation to the Brady And Firewall Historic District on the Eastern corner of East Brady Street and North Firewall Avenue in the 3rd Aldermanic District.

Okay. Thank you. So before us today are the East corner of the Brady And Farwell Intersection. So the four properties, four residential properties shown here, 1700 To 1716 North Farwell and 1516 East Brady. So if you're familiar with this area of Farwell Point, formerly right across the street, the CVS, just to the south here, right at the end of Brady Street where Brady sort of angles down as you get towards Prospect.

So these are the four properties in question in the proposed historic district, a prominent location on the Lower East Side. Taking a look at 1876, this is the approximate location of the historic district. Brady Street never went straight, so it always angled down. So this was shown before it was actually plotted, before the streets existed in this area. By 1894, three of the properties are located there.

The property on Brady was actually moved from Prospect in 1892. We'll talk about that a little bit. But the corner was still vacant in 1894, constructed in 1897. That last residential property now anchors the corner there in 1910. So we'll take a look at the four individual properties that make up the historic district.

The Joseph B. Oliver House was constructed first in 1874, moved to its present location on Brady Street in 1892. It's an Italianate style residential structure designed by Henry Coke, a national register listed in 1990. The Hover House is an exceptional and for Milwaukee rare example of a frame upper middle class Italianate style house that retains most of its decorative features. It's a two story frame building in T plan configuration with projecting central block balanced by east and west, shallow wings that are set back from the front.

The house rests on a cut stone foundation. The main portion of the building has a low deck on hip roof while the wings are gabled. It is sheathed with asphalt shingles and the chimney projects from the west side of the roof.

Andrew, if I could just interrupt. Properties that you are showing us are all owned by the company that is listed in the

Correct. They're all owned by F Street? The F Street. Yeah. I

so this home is not individually owned. I'm sorry. This home is not individually. It's owned by the corporation.

Correct. All four of these are. I see. Were recently sold to a developer.

I see. I I got it.

Yeah. And who's the developer?

It's f street development. F Street.

You're sitting in the back.

Alright. Come up. Mhmm.

Mhmm. I'm a real

estate investor, not a developer.

Okay. Just for instance.

Yep. Thanks. The Italian style was popular in Milwaukee from the mid eighteen fifties to the late 1970s. It was a versatile style that introduced picturesque new building shapes to the local architectural scene. The Italian knit could be rendered equally well in masonry or frame construction and a large number of houses illustrating the full range of sizes and degrees of architectural pretension and costliness were built in the city in both mediums.

Joseph Oliver House is virtually last remaining intact frame Italianate house in the city of any architectural interest. It exemplifies a flowering of the Italianate style when with applied decorative features, in this case, in Victorian Gothic inspiration that were used to ornament the increasingly complexly masked low roofed Italianate style house. It's the finest frame Italianate style house in the city. It was built by Joseph b Oliver 1874. That would is now 1671 North Prospect, so it was located just south of where it's presently located South Of Brady Street on Prospect.

Oliver was a successful meat packer and commodity trader who also briefly served in the US Army during the civil war and had a distinguished career in the army. He bought and sold property in Whitefish Bay and throughout the city of Milwaukee including along Prospect Avenue. He eventually amassed a large tract of land known that he referred to as the farm South Of Brady Street on Prospect and going all the way to Farwell. This is where he constructed his family farm excuse me, his family home in 1874. Though he eventually turned the property owner to over to an associate and it's unclear if he was having financial difficulties or if he sold all these parcels in order to raise funds for other business ventures.

But eventually all of the parcels were including the parcel that contained his family home. There was a new brick residence that was going to go up in that location. So either because the Oliver's were attached to the home or they couldn't afford to design and build a new one, they decided to move this basically a block north to a parcel that they had mortgaged in 1892. So they moved the house by 1894, though they eventually ran into financial difficulties. They missed tax payments and they missed mortgage payments and the property was eventually sold at auction.

A number of years later, it was reacquired by mister Oliver's mother-in-law who who allowed the the family to move in where they resided until 1914. Following that, it was rented by various parties and became a four unit property in 1941. So it's been rented as a multifamily unit since then. Currently is. I believe it's yes.

I believe so. In addition to being one of the finest Italianate houses in the city, it was also designed by prominent architect Henry Koch, who was born in Germany, came to The United States as a child, received his education at the German English Academy, and apprenticed with architect George Maiget. Following the US Civil War in which he served, he started his own firm. And by the nineteen seventies, became a fairly well known professional architect. There were numerous commissions including residences, churches, institutional buildings, governmental and commercial buildings, though virtually all of his residential commission commissions from the eighteen seventies have been been demolished.

There are only, in addition to this one, three of his residential commissions that are still extant in the city. They're all modest brick structures that are either national register listed or eligible, all three of them. By the after the nineteen seventies, he moved away from residential construction and began work on his school buildings, commercial buildings. Amongst his best known structures and commissions are the building that we're sitting in, Milwaukee City Hall, Turner Hall on the west side of downtown, the Ward Memorial Theater as part of the National Soldiers Home District, and the Golden Mayer School. All four of these are national historic landmarks.

So that's the cream of the crop in addition to other numerous properties that he has listed on the National Register. The remaining three properties were all constructed by Eustace and Margaret Vava Vava. So Eustace was born in France, 1829, relocated to The United States by at least 1855, married in Ohio, briefly lived in Buffalo, New York before the family moved to Milwaukee by the nineteen seventies '8 excuse me, eighteen seventies. He he was listed in city directories as being an engineer with the Eagle Flower Mill at the West Side of the Milwaukee River at Fleet Street. In 1878, he commissioned architect James Douglas to construct two identical residences for him on adjacent properties at Brady And Farwell.

They were designed in the high Victorian Gothic style and each residence had a cost of $3,000 The buildings are good and highly intact examples of the high Victorian Gothic style, elements of which are exhibited in their decorative brackets, ornate window hoods, limestone accents, pierced barge boards, their general vertical emphasis. The city contains other notable examples of high Victorian Gothic architecture, but the staff is not aware of any other paired examples like this. So it is pretty unique in the city of Milwaukee. So the house on the South, 1708, was intended to be the family's home, though they didn't occupy it for a number of years after it was constructed. They they did move in in 1882 and lived there until mister Valla passed away in 1897.

Following his death, the daughters resided at the home for a number of years, but it was new residents were listed by 1900. By 1937, it's listed as a two flat and it had various occupants throughout that time into the 1980s. The property was purchased by attorney Joseph Zeno in the 1950s and held by the family or the family's firm and a trust until December 2018. The property to the north, the investment property, had a series of early occupants and it was a rental property, an attorney who lived there and later later another gentleman who was a bookkeeper from the Eagle Mill, so may have known mister Valla. In 1939, permit indicates it was being used as a rooming house that had two apartments and a sleeping room on the 1st Floor, three apartments and a sleeping room on the 2nd Floor, and two sleeping rooms on the 3rd Floor.

So it had been fairly well carved up already at that point. It was later converted to a four unit building in 1954 owned by Joseph Zeno again and held by the family or the family trust until the same time it was sold with the neighboring properties. James Douglas, the architect born in Scotland, arrived in Milwaukee and was involved in construction of numerous early landmarks including St. John Cathedral, Holy Trinity Church, and the first Milwaukee City Hall. He began work as an architect with his brother.

And though much of his work has been lost demolition, his remaining designs include the Sanford Cain House, William Merrill House on Prospect, the Elias Calkins Double House, the William J Turner House which is locally designated, and the Grace Episcopal Church on Capitol Square in Madison. The remaining property, the last one, Eustace Valla, constructed in 1897. At that point, his wife had passed away. He hired CF Ringer and it was designed in the then fashionable Queen Anne style. So this was constructed he pulled up a permit for it in April 1897.

He passed away like a month and a half later. So he never lived there. It's a two and a half story Queen Anne clad with cream city brick. It's front gabled with prominent cross gables on the side facades. It does have a nineteen fifty one story brick commercial edition on the front of the building, which now places it firmly on the corner of Brady And Farwell.

But the Queen Anne characteristics include the asymmetrical facade, the rounded corner projection that implies a tower, overhanging gables that project from the main mass of the building and a mix of windows shapes and orientations along with decorative features like arches and limestone banding. The home was first occupied by popular physician Ralph Chandler and their family. For eighteen years, he acted as a surgeon for the first light battery known as Battery A of the Wisconsin National Guard. He was also on staff at the Johnson Emergency Hospital and a supporter of the Children's Free Hospital. Following his unexpected death in nineteen o four, his wife immediately sold the property to the family that's probably the most significant family to live here, and that was the Harry and Louise Shenuate family.

Harry Shenuate was born in Pennsylvania in 1873, later lived in Baltimore where he served as a professional musician. He and his family moved to Milwaukee in nineteen o four, and they founded and he was the director of the Shenuwit Conservatory of Music where his wife was the associate director. They operated their business, their school out of this home for the first number of years before they outgrew the residence and relocated to the Alhambra Theater on Grand Avenue. Shenuot was an organist and choir master with the Saint John's Cathedral, and his his daughter Irma was a child prodigy and a famous concert pianist. She gave her first performance at the age of five as a grand concert pianist, was touring national nationally at the age of seven, later joined the vaudeville circuit, and performed a concert for the king and queen of England.

So her first forays into performance and her learning to play the piano occurred at this house in the early nineteen hundreds when the family moved to moved to Milwaukee. The house had a series of occupants for the remainder of the 20s and 30s. It was modified. The Ground Floor was modified for commercial uses in 1934 for a bookstore that was located there. There were a number of other commercial endeavors on the Ground Floor.

It was purchased by Joseph Zino who who operated his his law firm out of the building for over fifty years. He was born to Sicilian parents in the 3rd Ward in 1911, grew up in Sicily, moved back to The United States at the age of 16, put himself through law school at Marquette Law, where he graduated with honors in 1945. And again, where he operated his firm out of the Ground Floor of the new addition, the commercial addition that he constructed in 1950. The upstairs was a series of rooms. It essentially was a rooming house with 10 or 11 units up above.

It was constructed by Carl F. Ringer, also went by CF Ringer who was born in Germany and came to Milwaukee in 1870. He was an apprentice for George Miget, one of the city's early architects, also worked with Edward Townsend Mix and was a construction foreman for architect James Douglas. He opened his own firm in 1881 and he was adept in working in revival styles and commercial architectural styles of the day of some of which are shown here. All of these are National Register listed properties.

So staff is recommending permanent historic designation for the following criteria. F3, it's identification with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city. Excuse me. The Valet House at 1700 North Farwell was most closely associated with the second occupants, the Shenuate family, who were all musicians in the city and operated a successful school out of the building. While they were still there, in nineteen o nine, article states that the conservatory was, quote, one of the best known institutions of its kind in this location of the state.

It has been in existence for many years and graduates have attained success in their chosen fields. Irma Shenuate and later Shenuate Hall resided there and learned how to play piano there and began her career as a child prodigy while living at the house. Following her retirement on the road, she also moved back to Milwaukee where she operated a music school for numerous years and at its peak in the early nineteen sixties had over 200 students. So F5, its embodiment, the distinguishing characteristics of an architectural style or specimen. All of the properties are outstanding examples of their respective late nineteenth century architectural styles.

The Oliver House being an excellent example of a frame Italianate residence. And though there are a number of brick Italianate residences that survive in Milwaukee, practically all of the ornate frame buildings except for the Oliver House have been demolished. The Vallet Houses are excellent examples of high Victorian Gothic style and even more rare in the fact that they are paired examples. And then the last Valor House is a great example of a Queen Anne represented in brick. Often these are found in frame, but less frequently are they found in brick, especially in the city of Milwaukee.

Also F6, its identification is a work of an artist, architect, craftsman or master builder whose individual works have influenced the development of the city. We spoke about all of the architects here, but all four were designed by some of the city of Milwaukee's top nineteenth century architectural firms. And finally, F9, its unique location is a singular excuse me. Location is a singular physical characteristic which represents an established and familiar visual feature. The four properties within the historic district, thank you, represent the residential vestiges of the rise of the Lower East Side, particularly Prospect And Farwell Avenues.

While these are not as grand as some of the Prospect Avenue Gold Coast mansions, they do represent superbly designed middle class commissions. All four have anchored the Eastern corridor of Radia Farwell for well over one hundred and twenty five years.

Okay. Very good. Any questions or comments? Commission to the staff.

This be adjacent? Would this be up against the Prospect Historic District?

There's a little bit of differentiation. So there's a difference between the Mansion District. Between the mansion. Yeah.

Okay. This does require a public hearing. So is there a motion to open the public hearing?

So moved.

So moved.

Second. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Any members of the public wish to testify? Come on down.

I only have a question. I'm Rosemary Muller.

Only your name and address for the record

here. Okay.

Rosemary Muller, m u l l e r. Rosemary, two words. 1707 North Prospect. We're in the Edgewater Terrace Building to the north of everything you're talking about. I just want a copy of all that.

How do

I get

the copy?

I'd be happy to get you. Okay.

You got my address. You can mail it

to Sure.

Yeah. Okay. We need that information for our building.

Okay. Anybody else? Stand down please.

Hello. Carl Bonneman, Menomonee Falls. I'm here representing the Milwaukee Preservation Alliance. I'm on the Board of Directors. We strongly support the staff's recommendation for all the reasons listed.

But I think some of the things that made it more unique to us is the fact while those houses all represent different styles maybe of architecture from late nineteenth century, kind of having that cluster together of those different styles really made it stick out to us and we thought that was important. Obviously the architects that worked on these properties are significant to Milwaukee and to the state of Wisconsin. And also the fact that all of the commercial development that's taken place around there, we don't want to lose any we don't think the city should lose any more of that. So we think it's important that we continue to support these so they can be preserved in the right manner and retain some of

the fabric of Milwaukee history.

Thank you. Me. I see that McCatch was the nominator. Is that through your organization?

They they did not? No. He he he reached out to staff indicating that he wanted to nominate these. So

that he's in addition to?

He was the nominator. He was having some health issues that precluded him from attending in person.

I understand. But my point is he is representing himself? Himself?

Yes. He

is. Representing as an attorney someone else?

No. He's retired.

So he's representing himself? Yes. I see. Very good.

Nothing. He is doing nothing other than as an ordinary city resident in this case.

I I hear you.

Thank you.

Okay. This kind of reminds me of the Peck Row House dispute thirty years ago. Mhmm. When you had a bunch of rooming houses basically, they were very dilapidated. Someone wanted to come in and demolish. There was a big fight over historic preservation. Right. Exactly. And now they are thriving, high end actually, row houses that look great.

Oh, yeah. I used it in lot of lectures. It challenged us because them in themselves independently, that was a tough sell back then too. And then allowed the garage additions around the back. So you see cars going in there. And that's one of the things, you know, with the arena, auditorium. There can be modifications to make these things work in contemporary circumstances. Alright? As long as you preserve the story. Yeah. It's very much like the Peck Roadhouse. Yeah. One block south.

Okay. Anybody else wish to testify? Anybody online to testify? You know what appears to be? Am I allowed to speak or no? Yeah. Sure. Good

afternoon. My name is Scott Leary with F Street. I am a local real estate investor.

For

this is my first time in front of you because I generally don't don't work in Milwaukee, but I'm here today. The reason for mister Hatch's motion today is nothing more than slander of title as far as I view it. I have no intention of developing as you suggested my name as a developer. I'm not a developer in Milwaukee. I'm a real estate investor.

I bought these because I think they're a great investment and the condition of them happened to be just fine and we don't have plans to buy excuse me, build in Milwaukee or knock these down. So while I don't have intentions to do so, obviously having a designation that would harm title seems to be an inappropriate action based on mister Hatch's according to him, his walking through the neighborhood only triggered by my recent acquisition of these assets. These have been there since I think you said eighteen something and no one has chosen to put them on the registry or be part of your organization until my name got associated with it, which to me seems to be all of the reasons why we shouldn't be putting distinctions to real estate. It shouldn't be about a person. It should be about the real estate.

And if your distinction is to associate real estate with history, that's wonderful. I have no objection to that. But it shouldn't be history and a person. And I'm the person. I'm the target that has been brought to this table as a developer. I have no intentions to develop, so I'm not a developer. That's that's not a true that's not true history. That's just someone reading something on the Internet and then associating me with something that which isn't fair. So I have no intentions to develop these. I plan to be a good steward of the real estate as I have for all of my real estate.

I don't think I need to go through the process and the cost and the argument and probably the unnecessary aggravation of mister Hatch's desire to submit a nomination for the $25 that he was able to pay to be listed here and sit in front of you today because he believes only in his mind that my actions will hinder something related to his value of some real estate or his area or his preservation he's cared about which is fair but remember, these are these just just these properties didn't just arrive here. They've been here for hundreds of years and because you put the target on my head, I don't think that's what your organization and what the purpose of this governing body is set forth to do is to harm people. We're here to preserve real estate, and this is nothing more than a slanderous title action against me because of who I am, and I don't even develop in Milwaukee. So it's not fair.

Why why would this harm you if you don't plan on violating the historicity of the structures? What I guess, what do you care?

Well, you don't care. You just never know what the future brings. Right? So the future is always unknown. Yeah. And so when you put distinction on product, whether whether whatever it is, it has ramifications. Everything has ramifications. And so if no ramifications were there before I bought them, which they weren't, and they were able to mister Hatch was able to walk by this property for the last hundred years, and I don't know how old he is, but let's just say 20. He could have done this at any single point in his time. Now today he's doing it, which does have an impact to us. I don't know what the impact is, sir. You're a 100% right. It I don't know. And I don't have intentions to, and candidly building an apartment in Milwaukee is probably on the least desirable thing I have in my mind right now, so I don't know. If the world changes, who knows?

Right? I just can't read that book for myself or maybe my kids who would end up owning these properties or my partners. Who who knows? But to sit here and have somebody for a $25 contestant fee gets to come in and throw his name in and slander something because I'm associated with today. I'm the new owner. Right? Here's your prize. You get a $25 problem, and we can have the fight. That's fine if that's what we have to do. All I'm saying is I think it degrades the responsibility and efficiency of what you guys do as an organization because I support a lot of what you do, and I think you guys do a wonderful job. I have some buildings that are part of it, But for it to be done by an action of to a person is very harmful to the integrity of everything. Sure.

I I'm not aware of the applicant or the background or his history with you.

He's your prominent real estate attorney from Foley.

That's where

you need to know.

And it yeah. And it doesn't matter to me either. But if his intention by nominating was to harm you, I'd say it backfired because being designated a historic property is a great honor.

Well so it's an let's be clear. It's an honor. There's costs associated with it. There are I sat through part of your hearing that unfortunately everyone doesn't have Northwestern Mutual's checkbook. So when you have to go back and make modifications and cut in holes and do stuff that would be mostly cost prohibitive to a lot of people, we we we suffer through those same problems.

Mhmm.

So I'm not suggesting that it wouldn't be a prize. Right? And if I wanted that prize, one would think the property owner myself would have applied for this. But I I didn't get that. There's a random constituent who I happen to have just known his name, who I've never done business with, but I know mister Hatch has done has a nice successful career in real estate. I have nothing more to say about him. I don't know him. But for him to do that, there's more to it. He's he's not a random guy walking down the streets of Milwaukee saying, let me look this one up for a history project. That we all know that's not the intention of the of the action.

And so I I encourage you to hold this the integrity of what you're doing high and to not simply just say, oh, yes. We're going to make every recommendation for a motion for the next hearing. All that's gonna do is cost money. I get it. We'll be there. But my my conversation really is on the grander picture is we shouldn't be, I shouldn't be the target of his nomination.

I just wish you wouldn't look at it like being a target to be nominated to be as, you know, I live in a historic home myself. If I wanted it, I

could have had

I'm not a Northwestern Mutual money bags either and you've got a it aids in being a good steward of the property and I mean, if you look where I live, which is Sherman Park, you can very clearly tell the houses that have been designated historic. They're the most desirable houses in the whole neighborhood.

I'm not suggesting so are you a baseball fan? Yes. Hockey? No. Okay. Let's just say I'm the greatest hockey fan in the world. I wanna go to the hockey game. That's not my choice. I can go. You could be a baseball fan. I can be a hockey fan. Right. I'm not a huge history fan. Okay? I'm not saying that to say that my my is better than yours. I'm just that's not what I do. Right. I do other things. So but in the same in that same light, I if I wanted it to become a history or if I wanted to become the designate designated as the historic, I I should have been able to want to apply. This is a non related third party who applied for not the spirit of what your your your mission is.

Okay, Scott. You know, I I think you have misinterpreted the role of this commission. Generally speaking, it is outside people that come in and create the nomination. It it often is not the owner person or the developer, whatever it is. It often is I mean, so you are not being singled out in that way. I'm just saying it happens. 99% of the time, it's an outside group That's true. That comes in or somebody living in the neighborhood. But it it it rarely is the scotlery.

Sure. It's I I don't disagree with that.

Don't have a target on your back. Please don't look at it that way.

I'm not looking at that way, but let's let's go to the alternative. Let's go to the nuclear scenario on the opposite side of it. Okay? Let's say for the intent of the world, I was buying these buildings to knock them down to build a luxury tower. If I got if we went through this and this was granted, I would have more problems.

Yeah. Right. That's what we want.

No. No. No. That's what you want. No. I can't

To preserve the building.

I I I'm with you. So all I'm saying I'm I got what you're here for. I'm not I'm not I'm I'm not saying that. The reason that mister Hatch applied you you know who mister Hatch is? I'm assuming by your asking about him.

Yes.

I do. And you know his prominency in real estate as a lawyer fully. Yes. See. This guy's no dummy. Okay? I I don't know him, but his intention is to prevent what would be a ground up development across from this beautiful what is that beautiful hotel that's going up there?

Right? There's not going

up there. Whatever's gonna be there? I don't know. I mean, that's what he's preventing. We we know of the mission. Right? The mission is to prevent me from doing what I'm to be doing or not to

be doing. Hold on, though. You have it so incorrect. You really do. It's just that he as yes. He's an attorney. Yes. He's highly respected. Yes. He's he's he's well respected in this field for years.

There's no question about it. And people who love and in in from one city to the next who really want to maintain original historic structures in cities, whether it's Boston or whether it's Milwaukee or whether it's Chicago, often have commissions like this. Agree. And now hold on a second. And they are based off of and again, maybe you could explain this a little bit, off of federal guidelines. This isn't something that this commission makes up.

No. I'm not suggesting any of that. Just suggesting the timing of his actions are very, very, very tied to my acquisition of this land. That's it.

Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay.

I said no more.

He's had twenty years to

do that.

Why does somebody from the outside, whether it's a neighbor or whether it's a real estate attorney or maybe an individual does it just as an individual, put in an application like this is because when it changes hands, they are fearful

Right.

Of not knowing what the new owner is going to do with the property. Just as we've gone through this long dissertation in regards to this property. It it it it it it it's still around.