Business Improvement District Board #2 (historic Third Ward) - Regular Meeting

Ann Pieper? Here. Sally Peltz? Here. Nicholas Robinson? I can see him online.

Yep, he's here.

Matt Jarose?

Here.

Robert Boutman?

Here.

Patricia Keaton? Here. And Jordan Morales?

Here. All right. Moving on to item number one, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for replacement windows and stucco repair at 2610 West Port Sunlight Way in the Garden Homes Historic District for Wesley S. Bentle.

So this is, yeah, Mr. Bentle is online. This is one that we've looked at a few times. He's come before us following the last meeting. He did get to us the aluminum-clad windows that HPC approved. So staff issued the COA in, I think, September or October of last year. So we'll hear from Mr. Bentle on where the project is at right now.

Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Bentle.

All right. The windows are in. Okay. Do I need to send you guys pictures of them? Sure. Yeah, that would be great.

But I think if the windows are in and everything else from the COA looks good, I think we'll be done with the mothball on this one.

Well, it was a mothball.

It may not have officially been a mothball.

Now, the resolution is to approve a certificate of appropriateness. It sounds like the window's already in.

The staff approved the COA, so I don't think this needs to come back for any more.

I got another issue. Okay. Good. We want to hear that. I have to do the porch and the porch rails over. I have pictures of what the neighbor did. And I was wondering if I could send you those pictures to get a certificate so I can do those over. DNS has asked me to get it done by July.

Sure. Yeah, I'll work with you if you want to give me a call or email me tomorrow.

Perfect. Excellent. All right, so then the motion for this would be to accept the staff approved... What is the motion for this?

Good question. Is the stucco okay? The stucco was repaired. Yeah, he did a good job patching that up. And you approved it.

Yeah. So the work's done. The staff has approved the COA. We'll... Yeah, well, okay, we'll move to adopt the staff-approved COA. How about that? There we go.

Do we have a second? A second.

All right, all in favor? Aye. All right. Aye. That's unanimous.

It's nice to finish one.

Excellent. All right, moving on to item 260.043, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for exterior rehabilitation demolition of a non-historic exterior stairway In a new deck at 213 West Brown Street in the Brewers Hill Historic District for Shannon Brennan and Cat Devlin. Thank you.

So this is going to be a fairly extensive, all-encompassing exterior renovation project. This is a Gabledowl house constructed approximately 1878. You can see that up until recently it was clad with asphalt replacement siding. The owners live next door. They purchased this property. They took the replacement siding off to expose the clabbered. So they're proposing... An exterior rehabilitation, that's sort of the staff report broke it out into four large parts, so we'll go over those. The siding, removing that replacement siding exposed the clabbered siding. What they're proposing to do is remove... all of the extant clabbered siding, sheath the house, and then install a weather-resistant barrier, and then reapply the clabbered that's salvageable and put replacement clabbered matching the profile of the historic where any new material needs to be replaced. Initially, their proposal also mentioned doing LP smart side on the rear facade, but they clarified that that is not what they're proposing, that they're going to do wood replacement siding on where needed on all four facades. And they'll also remove the board and batten that's in the gables and replace that with clabbered. So staff has no concerns with that. All the decorative trim and end boards and Water table will all be replaced where needed, matching the historic dimensions. So staff has no concerns with the siding. The windows, there are, I believe they said 12 windows there currently. Ten of them will be repaired and left, you know, redo the sash weights, redo the windows, the glazing. where needed. So 10 of the windows will be rehabbed. There's a replacement window that is failing, so that will be removed and replaced with a solid wood window matching the 2 over 2 design that's present. And then there was one historic window that was too far deteriorated to repair, so they're going to replace that in kind with a new solid wood window. They're also proposing moving one window opening, and I'll show this on a plan in a couple slides, and then installing two new windows where there's presently an exterior basement stairwell, and they're proposing taking that off and putting on a new deck. installing French doors where there aren't any, and then installing two new windows that would look out on the deck. And those would be, again, all wood windows that would match the profile of the historic windows. And this will be on the rear, the L part that won't be visible from the right of way. So staff has no concerns with the rehab of the historic windows and the addition of a few new windows that would match the historic profile.

This is all underway already?

They've only removed the replacement siding so far, is my understanding.

It looks like windows are already replaced. Are these the historic ones?

Yeah, I think there were storms on there and I should mention also that they are planning on adding all new wood storm windows all new new constructed wood storm windows with a Meeting rail that would match the historic profile of the of the prime windows Their doors, they are proposing to rehabilitate the historic front door and then add the two French doors or a pair of French doors. I put those a little too far back, but a time light. French door off of the deck and I'll show the plan coming up too. But these won't be visible from the right of way. There's really not much of a yard to speak of, so they're adding, they're proposing adding a deck that would be accessible via these French doors. And again, staff feels that although not, you know, appropriately for an 1876 little cottage, they're not going to be visible and the lack of yard They need some outdoor space here, so staff's comfortable with that. So this is a non-historic stairwell that goes down to the basement that you can see on the left, and then this is a shot from the property owner's current house where they live, looking across their yard at this house, the subject property. They're proposing removing that and adding a Bilko-style cellar door that would access the basement sort of in the very back of the property. won't be visible from the right of way. This is the plans. So on the left-hand side is what is presently there, and the right-hand side is what they're proposing to do. So you can see they're taking off that non-historic addition, adding the French doors, and adding the two new windows in the L section there, and then moving that one window and sliding that to the north. And where it says two new windows on the rear facade, those are the windows that were too deteriorated to repair. So those will be wood windows to match. And then they're proposing adding a – the fourth part is adding this deck, which would be a 9-foot by 19-foot deck with the French doors. It would be constructed of cedartone pressure-treated lumber. And they provided – since the staff report went out early, they did provide – baluster designs and rail designs that all look appropriate to the house so staff has no concerns with the with the proposed rear deck and Overall looks like a great rehabilitation project staff These are the railings proposed Staff recommends approval with conditions, and really they've satisfied three out of the four conditions, so the only condition essentially that would remain is just the standard wood condition. But it looks like a great project.

All right. Mr. Chair? Go ahead. Are you doing this work yourself, the windows especially? Oh, sorry. Oh. I saw two. Okay.

Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me. Of course. My name is Shannon. Hello.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. Sorry, your question was if I was proposing doing the work myself.

Yeah.

Not for the siding. Modern exterior would do the siding. For the window installation, we subcontracted Hernandez Construction, who were recommended by Lisbon Storm and Screen to install the windows. The ledger rail, we would have them do. And then the landscaper, we have a landscaper who's going to do grading and the bilco installation because there's water intrusion going into the basement. So they'll be doing the grading work. There's only first floor windows. Correct. Well, there are... basement in the front of the house there are like there are like half openings for windows but they're like it's just because it's there but we don't know such thing as a window that can't be restored if you know if you have the right materials the I've restored windows where the lower

rail was completely gone. And it's in service today.

Yeah. If you'd like to see a picture of a window that I think maybe can't be restored.

I will take a look at that. I have worked on where the lower rail was loose from the rest of the frame. And abitron epoxy can restore almost anything as long as there's some original wood left. and it's not just all powder.

The issue has been that there was so much water intrusion on that side of the house that the window is pretty much rotted out.

I think I see, is it this window in the lower, is that the window here?

That's the one, yes.

Yeah, and the sill is shot too, but sills can be replaced. I've also had that done. That I don't do myself because that requires a fairly high skill level to do sills correctly. Yeah. And they get the right material. And the material does exist. At Bliffer, you can get the, I think it's inch and a half thickness. Or maybe, you can get the right material.

I mean, so I did have the folks from, so Sunshine, who were going to be doing the windows, ended up losing one of their project managers, so we lost the folks that were going to do it for us. We talked to thoughtful craftsmen, and they came and essentially said, the person who was there essentially said, like, You can't afford to have us do this job. And so this isn't like an investment property for us. It's not going to turn into a rental. We live in the house next door. We're hoping to have family there. So we're trying to do what we can to try and make the house...

And rather than fixed storm windows, Acra Millwork has a product that works very well. It's sort of like a triple track but with wood frame. And you can install and take out the screens and the glass from the inside without having to wrestle with big fixed exterior windows. storm windows, and then you need two. You need a screen, and then you need the storm window, and they're heavy, and they're hard to

Yeah. Did you say Acra Mill Products? Acra Millworks. Acra Millworks. Thank you.

Local company, highest quality in the city. Awesome. Thank you. When it comes to millwork. Thank you. They are expensive.

Yeah.

They can, of course, do interior wood. Lisbon is fine for your average run-of-the-mill property, but at the level of work you're doing, Acra is much higher quality.

Yeah. Yeah. We're trying to – I mean, essentially, we're trying to balance – making sure that we're, you know, we already live in the neighborhood. We love Brewer's Hill. We love the look of the neighborhood. So we're trying to balance restoration with, frankly, the condition of the home that we're working with.

Well, I compliment you. You're doing things the right way, but there's actually sometimes even better ways to do it the right way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I am very open to learning also, so thank you.

Question. Pretty nice what you're doing. You're taking the wood off that we saw in that picture.

The siding, the cedar siding?

Yes. And then what are you putting on and then putting the wood back?

Yeah, so we're also using the Wisconsin, we're trying to use the Wisconsin Historic Tax Credits. So in order to use that, they want us to preserve as much of the original cedar siding as we can. The reason that we're not just trying to, like, restore the siding as it is is because for much of the house, the siding is just nailed directly onto the studs. So we're removing it. Sorry, again?

That's what he said. There's no siding behind the clapboard.

Correct, yeah, yeah.

Wow. So right now it's a very airy house.

Because that is going to pull the siding away, and you have these very shallow details on those windows and the corner board. That's a good point. So how much are you putting on? Because now all of a sudden that's going to affect the relationship of the clapboard and the other details around the windows.

Yeah. Yeah.

I would say maybe get that figured out with that. Maybe they have a solution for you.

Yeah, thank you for pointing that out.

The photos I see does have sheathing on the other side of the studs, the windows, and what is it? What's that document that's included in there?

My hypothesis about the house is that it was built in like two or three stages. So if you see where the porch is, the side with the window and the door, no cladding, no sheathing. Along that next return, none. Along the front, none. And then back about 20 feet, none. And then the rest of the house does have like...

thicker If you're taking the siding off could they put a bad insulation between the studs You know to get a good our values what you're after you want insulation Are those studs?

two by six 1870 might have been bigger

Right, but I mean they used whatever they had back in the 70s So anyway, that would be and maybe you're gonna do both both this the bat insulation and the rigid but Think about that with the detail I mean it may require your mill guy then to actually have to extend those details out And the sills and some of the other trim which is possible But make sure he has that in his bit or whatever that that doesn't become a big extra.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I

just uh just a question uh matt for you as an architect from a building science perspective do we want to do they want to do avb and insulate the studs and stuff like that with the wood clapboard sign or does that risk like not allowing the house to breathe and stuff like that

It's an excellent point. I mean, people, you know, these buildings become comfortable after 120 years, and all of a sudden you change the moisture and the vapor barriers, and it really messes with just, you know, go about it, I guess, carefully when you proceed.

Yeah, do some more research into that. Barriers, yeah.

You don't also mold on the inside of your house on the plastic.

A modern exterior siding company that's not familiar with historic properties, they'll love to sell you the AVB and the new sheathing or the zip system sheathing or whatever, and then before you know it, your house isn't drying out.

That's right. And our old houses were used to leakage. My house, oh, man, I'm sealing it up, and it changes the whole character.

Just be careful with that because you probably don't have a vented roof. Right. Yeah.

We did a vented roof last year with the COA. Okay, cool. It's had a lot of water in it over the years. Yeah. Thank you for that.

Well, you're doing it the right way. We were just making suggestions.

No, I really appreciate it.

Thank you. And maybe, too, as you're dealing with contractors, see if they've done something like that before. Have they taken siding, put rigid, and everything was okay or not?

As soon as somebody specifies Marvin, which is an out-of-state, big, national manufacturer, and they don't even suggest pricing out Acker, it may be suspicious that they don't know the field.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Also, I just did a clapboard restoration project on my own house a few months ago, and it's very easy to snap those old clapboards. So, yeah, trying to take them all off and salvage them.

Do you feel comfortable with my sending you an email? Yeah, sure, absolutely. I feel like anybody that's gone through this, I'm like, can you please take two?

Save the cup nails if you can. Yeah, yeah. Of all cup nails, rock nails, yeah.

Is it white pine?

Probably white pine.

The old stuff, yeah. Cedar's the new, would be the new.

You can get white pine. It's available, right?

Everybody comes through with cedar. That's generally what we see.

White pine can be procured. Jack O'Bolish found an outfit in New England that's still manufactured.

Okay.

I think I still have their website hidden somewhere. With the white pine guy? I know they had spruce, which was unusual. They probably have some sort of pine sounds familiar.

Okay. Any other questions from commissioners?

On this matter, do anybody have a motion on this? Sure, I'll make a motion to approve, I guess maybe with the additional comment to check carefully with these matters that we discussed here with the siding and the relationship of the trim work with the new siding and so forth.

Okay. Do we have a second?

Second.

All right. All in favor? Aye. All right. That matter passes.

Thank you all so much.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

All right. Item 260045, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for rehabilitation and signage, a new tenant. at 1300 West Historic Mitchell Street in the Mitchell Street Historic District for SCCP Mitchell LLC and Bank of America.

So this is a relatively modest alterations to the building, but we are losing a dollar. The dollar store has been gone for some months, I believe, possibly a whole year, and Bank of America is converting the existing building to a branch. Right at 13th, right behind the South Division field. Existing conditions. Signage. Changes to awnings. Most of this project is changes to the parking lot. As it is, it doesn't comply with the newer parking lot landscaping standards, and they would also like to erect a freestanding ATM, as there's really nowhere appropriate to put it within the building. This will be at the corner of 14th. It meets our standards and is at the height and is within the zoning standards for size. This will be the parking lot facade. Essentially just changing the signage, changing the awnings, and doing a new paint color scheme on the storefront window system. Mitchell Street facade, same thing, original entrance with a canopy was centered on the center under here. That is not being proposed for restoration. It would be nice to have an entrance there, but I do not, as they are not proposing any alterations there, we cannot require it. And again, some more signage and, again, awning change and color scheme change. Freestanding drive-up ATM in the parking lot with a small canopy. Brick selected to approximate what's on the building. We don't want an exact match. We don't want historic brick. I advise them to get a... modern modular brick in a in a reasonably approximate color and this fits that lighting for the parking lot and the ground plan The only issue I found with any of this is some slight tweaks to the signage, which I will get back to. On both this Mitchell Street facade, it would be preferable to have the signage either fit entirely within the existing projecting brick frame or break part of it out of the projecting frame. It's hard to see here, but... Basically, the text is on top of the bottom of the frame. So I would say either shrink it to fit or pull the text out of the frame. Similar issue over here. They can either condense slightly or rearrange the wording and it will fit within the frame. It's so close to fitting that it's going to look better if they just tweak it that little bit. There are also on the Mitchell facade remnants of the supports for the original awning. There's some terracotta surrounds on the hooks and hooks. I'm asking that they ensure that the terracotta hook surrounds remain. And that is that. As far as I can tell, it meets the new landscaping standards. PlanExam will handle that for us. We've never really asked for anything more than what's in the current parking lot standards. It's pretty good. They're going to add, I believe, 11 new trees and 55 shrubs amongst other plantings. So staff recommends approval with the three conditions outlined.

Okay. And go ahead and introduce yourselves.

My name is Connor Hanson. I'm with Collier's Engineering, representing Bank of America.

My name is Julie Clark-Kowalski. I'm with Collier's Engineering and Design as well, representing Bank of America.

Excellent. You guys are familiar with the three conditions in the staff report? Any issues with that?

No.

Okay. Any questions from commissioners?

Yeah, I have a question looking at that elevation. If we can go back to elevation.

We actually do have an updated presentation. Actually, it's on the, it should be historic Mitchell. It's the PDF.

And it's on that one.

Oh, okay.

What can you tell us for the record, if we approve this, what's going to be in those windows?

So actually, I can speak on that. So within that, no offices are going to be up against the storefront. So it's actually all, I guess, like waiting area for the actual customers. So yeah, so there's not going to be any offices up against the storefront. The only thing up against that storefront is really the waiting area and main space for the customers.

So if you're doing a drawing, A bid drawing, it would say clear glass. Correct. Right? That's correct. No intention of blocking that up with any kind of opaque window cling or anything like that? None of that.

The zoning standards would not allow that, and if a Boza case came forward, I would submit a letter on behalf of all of us opposing it.

Okay. Just want to make that perfectly clear so it doesn't surprise you in a year or two if all of a sudden stuff comes up on that client. Understood.

So I have a question. So the windows, explain it to me again. I know you just did it with Matt.

Absolutely.

Can you see through it?

You will be able to see through it. This one was just a rendering. They were trying to block out the existing tenants space. So it's currently a Dollar Tree. So they were just blocking what was currently there. But it's going to be clear glass. You will be able to see through it.

And that will be the area where people are going to be, it's a waiting area.

Correct. That's correct.

And so I'll be able to see people and people will be able to see me.

Absolutely.

Okay, that will be great. Is that what you thought too?

That's what I'm assuming. I want to make it very clear with this deal that there can't be anything like that, anything opaque on that glass.

All right Any other questions current comments concerns from commissioners?

I guess there's there is one thing that I would just like to get because I do want to get it approved and not Be a surprise to you on the new I PD or a PDF that we have up there We can scroll down actually So if we keep going, existing conditions, site plan. So that is the ATM. Those are all the, so we do have a dumpster enclosure that's going to be built that we're proposing. And it's going to be the same brick veneer that we're doing for the drive-up ATM. So it will be similar to match what the existing conditions of the building are as well. 12 by 12 and 6 foot high. Where is that sited? So that's going to be if we scroll up to the site plan, it's going to be towards the north area right up against the field. Yep.

And there's an existing enclosure there currently that's in a somewhat state of disrepair that we would be improving upon. Sure.

Okay. Is it bracket lighting for that sign or is that internally illuminated signage? All internally. So, Illuminated Letters and Bank of America. Yeah.

Yes. It's a pattern with push-through.

Okay. Okay, well it's based on that that I will move for approval and be very cognizant of the fact that you can't block those clear windows. Absolutely. And with the staff conditions, of course.

Okay. Do we have a second on that motion?

All right. All in favor? Aye.

All right. Motion passes. Wonderful. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

All right. And I'll entertain a motion for item number four to be held to the call of the chair. all right and this is because there's the applicant is unavailable to speak to it correct so okay so second for that Yeah.

I saw that. I may not be the same. I heard him say it.

Alderman Baumann seconds. I heard you say second.

Yep. Whatever.

Yeah. All right. All in favor? Aye. All right. Aye. And we're going to now move on items five through. 13 and 15 through 17. So we're going to remove 14 from this grouping.

And just hold it until next month.

And we're going to hold it until next month. So all of that is in a motion. And I'll make that motion, I guess. And is there a second for that? second second all right uh and all in favor all right excellent all right so item 14 will be held till next month uh we're going to review and approve of the minutes from last meeting may 4th 2026 assuming we've all had a chance to review those uh do i have a motion for the re for the approval of those minutes

All right. Second? Second.

All right. All in favor? Aye. All right. Updates and announcements.

The Wisconsin Local History and Preservation Conference is coming to Milwaukee at the Hyatt in October. They've never held the conference in Milwaukee before. So I hope you all join us in attending in October.

Do you have the dates?

Not offhand. I will put it in for next month. Perfect.

And this is something that we pay on our own to go to?

Yes, it's usually very minimal charge.

And it's going to be at what hotel?

The downtown Hyatt.

I see. Here?

Yes.

Why don't they do a head start? And it's sometime in October.

It's called state purchasing requirements. There we go. Okay. It's whoever, I assume it's whoever downtown offered them the best rate. Makes sense. Yeah, that's dumb.

Will you send us information on that?

Yes.

Okay, and we can register on our own or through you?

Register on your own. As far as, I have not seen registration open yet.

Okay, okay. I mean, because since it's right here in the city.

Yes.

For us not to show up. You think this is something that is useful?

Yes.

Okay.

I think you should all do your best to attend.

What's the name of the conference?

Wisconsin Local History and Historic Preservation Conference.

Historic Preservation Conference for the Historic Preservation Commission. Yeah, it makes sense that we go there. All right. Okay.

All right. None of you have to travel. It's in city limits, so you should all be able to at least go one day.

All right. Fair enough. Any other updates or announcements? Okay, then I will entertain a motion to adjourn this meeting.

It went very well. Who got the awards?

Well, two never even showed up to claim them.

Speaking of that, Bob and Jordan, you both did a great job.

Well, thank you.

And, again, my plea is that we put a little committee together and we try to get more people to show up because I think it's really kind of neat in terms of this whole theme called historic preservation. And I would love to be able to see where – The developers are announced. I mean, everyone that's up there, I would love to see them all announced so that, you know, the architects. And then the other thing is I see the mayor has his thing. Did you ever think about or is it totally not appropriate to combine the two? Because he gets a tremendous amount of coverage.

They were combined at one point. That did not prove to be a good idea. Okay.

Why?

Under... The mayor controlled that whole process. And this body was specifically taken out from under his control when we moved the Historic Preservation Commission to the clerk's office.

Not saying anything against Mayor Johnson.

He had nothing to do with any of this.

But that was under different leadership.

Yes.

And I'm not disputing that. Anyway, the projects are so good. And it's such a great marketing tool. It's such a great marketing tool for all of us. So, anyways.

The only thing, we've got to avoid having back-to-back awards.

That was the problem. I mean, the day before, that syrup, and it was filled because of the mayor's awards. And the next day was these awards.

So, anyways, it needs to be thought through. Otherwise, it's like, I mean, I love going to it, and I love the place and everything. But we could do, I think it could be that much more exciting.

Okay.

Could I know who the awards were? Is Green Street still around? Because we voted. I mean, he's around.

He's alive. It was the duplexes on 29th and State in Concordia. Yeah, I mean, he lives on our block in Shepherd. Yeah, and he's...

The Prairie on Park. The Urban Ecology Center. The Downtown Hilton. Church of the Jesu.

Church of the Jesu.

And it goes there. Infill building in the King Drive. We're on the third.

Did not receive a majority vote. Everything that got at least four out of seven votes got an award.

Okay. Thank you.

Excellent. okay uh i was looking for a motion to adjourn oh somebody made someone okay uh do a second all in favor all right thank you everybody