Borough Council - Regular Meeting

Yeah.

So, we're good. I'm going to tell

suggest whatever

something's in there that Yeah. Get it done tomorrow.

If there's a Sometimes. Yeah. Oh my.

Good evening. I'd like to call the November 11th, 10th, uh, 2025 Burough Council meeting to order. Will the clerk please read the open public meeting statement? Adequate notice has been provided as required under chapter 231 public law 1975 specifying the time, date, and location of this meeting by posting a copy of the notice of municipal building on the municipal website and providing a copy of the annual notice scheduled to the official newspapers of the burrow. Notice is also on file in the municipal clerk's office. Will the clerk please call the role? Council President Dan Brana here. Councilman Collins here. Councilman Mango. Councilwoman Payne here. Councilman Posnansky here. Councilman [clears throat] Potter here.

Mayor Murray present. Burough attorney Peter Vnolo present. Bur engineer Mike Mlen here. Bur engineer L Pascanka present. Bur administrator Fred Carr present. I also am present. Now is a time for public comment limited to the resolution. Salute to the flag.

Oh, I'm sorry. [laughter] Will everyone please stand for the salute of the flag followed by the moment of silence first to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Try that again.

Now is the time for public comment limited to the resolutions on the agenda only. If you wish to speak, please step up to the microphone. State your name and address for the record. Again, this is the public portion is limited to the comments only on the resolutions listed on the agenda at this time. There'll be a fivem minute time limit as set forth by the rules of council. If someone raises their hands, please cl come up to the microphone. State your name and address for the record. Seeing none, I'll close audience comments. Ordinance introduction first reading. This is an introduction on ordinance 25-1576. There'll be no public input on the ordinance tonight. The introductory summary will be published as required by law in the second reading. Public hearing final adoption will be considered on the November

24th 25th 4th 4th thank you 2025. Full copies of this ordinance will be posted on the burough website on the bulletin board of the municipal building and available at no cost in the office of the municipal clerk between the hours of 8:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday. Will the clerk please read ordinance 25-1576 by title? An ordinance to amend chapter 25 water section 25-7.23 replacement of water meters of the revised general ordinances of the burrow of Miltown. May I have a motion in a second, please? So move.

Second. Is there any comments? Yes, Mr. Mayor. I think this $250 a month is too high. I think we should lower that down. Quick question. Did this come u I guess Councilman Mango, this this uh this was the suggestion from the utilities committee? Yes, this was the uh this was the motivational charge that is only levied upon people who uh have not had their meters done that would incentivize them to basically get out of the way of the grant and the people who need the grant.

Thank you. I I also agree with uh Councilman Collins. I I could see the 250 a month if if at the end whether it's stated or not stated that they get some kind of a return which would be some kind of a service charge say a $50 charge but the $250 I do not agree with. And and that's $250 a month so they're going to get $750 in a quarter. Exactly. Well, I'd I'd also like to say I I wish people the forces were that adamant at getting the tax money from Ford Avenue. $7 million plus from Fort Avenue as they are with this.

So, Councilman, if I may imagine, 250 is a considerable number, but the council has been talking for 4 months and calling people. The utility department has been calling people for 4 months and people are not making appointments. That's four months that they've been calling them. That's six months before that. that they had all the time to get it done, free service. And there were six months before those six months where it was clearly disclosed that this was coming forward. And in a town where we have rates that everybody wants to complain about, there's finally something set in set forth to create some type of progress and perhaps to help that which will cut down on the labor cost in the future. and the people who won't get out of its way, who won't schedule the appointment. I uh Hi, I'm Councilman Frank Mano. I have no mercy for that. Just do it. Just get it over with. There's grants. It's free. We'll figure it out. There's more grants coming once we get everything done. But it's for the good of the town. And uh it's Miltown. We need to do it. I don't think it's really I don't think it's something that we could we should argue about. I think it's all just as a rule. Did we do did we vote to do the meters? We did. Did we get the funding? We did. I think this is just a final step in whether we want to go, oh, 250 is too much. It should be 200. Oh, they should get some back. Maybe we enact this and suddenly in a month and a half they'll all be done. I guess we'll find out. It

won't be a month and a half, right? Because it's quarterly billing. Lou, real quick, how many how many we u How many residents still need Well, I think once it's passed, [clears throat] then it's motivation. Yeah. Until it's passed, it's just chatter. I'll say for myself, I'm an elected representative. I work for you. All of you. You don't work for us. Period. That's I I I You're just going to open up the door. We're going to get a couple seniors down here, you know, at the at the council meeting and they're going to come down and they're going to say, "I got a $750 bill and I'm on a fixed income." Uh what are you going to say to them then?

I'm going to say that you should have gotten your mean return. We had I don't know 6 months to do it, another four months. We talked about it and we talked about it last year, you know. And I guess there's a customer service phrase that applies to this would be uh failure to act promptly on your side does not constitute an emergency. I mean you're going to have seniors down here that are, you know, 80s and 90s and they're not going to what they going to be barely get in the door and they're going to come down here saying I got this big bill. I mean, you got to have seniors suffer no more than a family of four or a family of six. Or a family of one.

You know that? I didn't know that. When when when bills go up. What are you talking about? When bills go up. What are you talking about? I'm trying to tell you. If you want, if you got a minute, I'll let you know. Yeah. I'm listen. If everybody's look when things get more expensive, two people, right, if their water bill goes up, their water bill goes up. If four people live in a house and the water bill goes up 3%. Mathematically, it should go up more than the two people. But typically, in a household of four, it's two working adults and a couple of kids. So there's still just two incomes. So I think we're not talking about the rate. We're talking about

You're right. You're talking about literally a fee for not doing what your question, Councilman Collins, Councilman Presidenti, is this a simple program. Once you call and schedule your appointment, you come off the list. Simple as that. Mr. Carr, I understand that sounds too, but I have a right to speak for the res. Oh, absolutely. Yes, sir. I'm just explaining I'm explaining that

the purpose of the conversation is to encourage people, okay, to make a phone call. It's a free phone call for a free installation of a free water meter in your home for those people who can't seem to make their call. I said, I agree. You charge them 250 a month. If at the end and they pay up, they pay they get everything back but a $50 service charge for someone's time. But to charge $250 a month, and I understand that that some people get lost in this, I do not appreciate. So anybody who has made an appointment doesn't get charged. I understand that.

So So I Yes, sir. So that's if that's your recommendation, sir. Council can act the way they want. What I've said for the last five months, I'm expressing my opinion, which I will. You should. Absolutely. That's right. I mean, it's easy to sit behind a desk and pass out the bills, but we have to listen to the residents. What What are we going to say to seniors? Simply say that you need to schedule it and it goes away. Why don't you come to the senior center and do that? I will. Um, I'm free as far as I know. Thursday. Good. What time are they? There'll be the men's club meeting Thursday morning at 9:30. Yeah. I can't take off at work. I got bills to pay, too. You know, we have water things.

$250 a month. Lou, how many how many do we still have open? There's 195 unscheduled at this point. But there those are some commercials, isn't that correct? We've taken the commercials off the list. [clears throat] Still 193 residential. There's um of the 195, there's 173 residential. 173 residential. [snorts] Thank you.

And how many does the burrow still remain not installed, Luke? There are um so you got the 195 unscheduled. You have 24 on the call back list who are scheduling appointments. We have one that is scheduled and that is all of them. So that's uh 15. So Lou it's moving along though but it's moving along. 220 220 have not replaced. And you have 15 burrow ones that are not replaced, correct? Yeah, they're being scheduled now. Okay. Now,

we were, as you heard from the call, mayor, uh, last Friday, we're waiting on the correct meters to come in.

So, I do have a list of the 24 um that were on the call back list. Uh, a lot of them, the comments were there was no dates to schedule. Um there were repeated attempts [snorts] to schedule. Um Chris, I know the one date that they had was was out there. It was uh November 6th. Uh I'm sorry. Uh there's going to be one date, December 1st. Um as of the November 6th meeting, there's only going to be one date in December. December 1st. Um, some could some are working during the week and it's they only have weekends available. I saw two like that. Um, so we have to try to figure that out.

Yeah. Before December 1st hits, they've agreed to open up another date. So there's always one date open as as we progress. But Fred, you're saying if they make the call, they come off the list. So the ones that you were saying, Mayor Y, they've already made the call. So they wouldn't be on the list. Yeah. on this list that we're going to that they want to put the search charge on because they're making an attempt.

Could I um could I just ask um maybe for some clarification um just for the public? Um why it is so important to schedule these replacements because as I understand it, it's so that we can begin the leadline work, right? And so that we know how many people will need financial assistance from the grant that we so generously received right from the assemblymen. Um do I have that right, Mr. Core? Yes. Yes, ma'am.

Yes. So I think that um there's a really important reason why we're trying to create an incentive here. And I guess what I haven't heard yet is is there an alternative plan from Councilman Collins or Councilman Puzznansky. Do you have another suggestion in terms of creating? Well, I I can tell you that there are towns because I've looked into it that people have been able to opt out. We don't have an opt- out program. We could have an opt- out program. It would cost the people more money, but some people have wanted to opt out and some people have said that to me. That's the first I've heard of that one. Well, you don't speak to me anyway. Opting out of opting out of new meters or an opting out of what? Our water system. Well, I'd like to ask the professionals if that's true.

I'm listening. Is an opt out as Mr. um as councilman, there are towns, they have opt out programs. They have a program like this. They have an opt out program. No, I hear what you're saying. I'm asking professionals, have you heard of something like this? Can you clarify what the optout means? What is what that means? I I never heard they opt out of this option, which is not an option, but they want to they'd want to opt out to they know they'll pay more, but they don't trust the system, which is what I have heard. So, they have an opt- out program where they do have someone come through the house. They pay more a month, but but they do. I wouldn't do it, but they do it. But our professionals have not heard of that as an option. So,

Pat, I'll tell you, next meeting I will bring information. Is that for you? Is that water or is that water meters or is that electric meters? That's for both. Okay. I'll bring information because I have information for both. I've looked into both.

So, if I may answer the council's question. So, the the water meter, this is talking specifically about the water meter replacement project. So if the burrow who has hired uh corn mine and vapo to do the water meter replacement progress if vippo who's being paid to do this walks away they've indicated for the last month or two that because of the reduction of the calls to their call center that they're no longer going to be able to sustain coming here to work because they have other contracts to work at. Then they will get to the point where it now becomes the responsibility of the burl. They're going to say, "Look, uh, for all intents about to put too final of a point on it. You're wasting my time. I can't get these done because I have other projects to do. I have to send my resources someplace else. And now we get to do it ourselves." Last year, the water department in the burrow of Miltown before we hired VO replaced these water meters, these new water meters themselves. It took them all year to get about 50 meters installed. That's because there's only Don Herman, uh, Ian Brown, Senior, and one other person in the water department. And there are other they're doing other things. They're working through the list. So, if you say you have about 200 meters left, it's going to take them four years to replace the meters in the rest of the town. That's four years to replace the meters that we already have sitting up in a box. That's four years to get into the house to replace the meter, add the sending unit, get the software, which is no longer supported by uh census. Okay. Had the little sensing unit where it downloads automatically and evaluate that person's individual service line in accordance with the law.

All right. to meet our 31 uh 20 2031 deadline by DP. Now, we're doing very well. We're way ahead. We got about 200 give or take, depending on the math. But it's just going to take it a longer time. Next year's 26. That gives us 26, 27, 28, 29. All right. Before Don and the boys can do these other meters, okay? And by then, we'll be behind the power curve. But if council chooses to change the rules, that's okay. I'm just saying the purpose of this is to get it done, start the lead line replacement project, and do good things for the town using free money. That's it.

So, Mr. Car, I just want to say one thing about that. So, so that's good, but uh we haven't made a determination that we're not going to wait for all these meters to go to go in and then we're going to start the replacement. That wouldn't be fair to the people who already made the appointment and have a lead line. They've been identified as having a lead line. I would think that wherever those people are, they go first to the list. Lad line gets done as soon as possible. So CME has that list and they're they're preparing a proposal to start working through that list for the council to take action. Okay. Using the first million dollar or $800,000 that's available to start replacing individual lead lines in the car based on the people that we have the knowledge of. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, there are some who we have identified previously from the letter that we sent out like the lady who was here at the last council meeting. She got the certified letter as required by law that says, "Why do I get this?" Cuz until we replace it, you get a letter. This isn't just a program to replace this the water meter. It's a two-fold program. It's to replace the water meter and to check for a lead line service. Correct, sir. Two things going on here. Correct. And now that we have a clean list, we'll be able to start helping people. Yes.

Or we tell people it's your line. It's your problem. You pay for it or not. You can opt out of it. Okay? You you don't have to replace the lead service lines in your house. Okay? It's up to you. But when you sell that house in a few years, the new owner may insist that that line is replaced before they buy the house, right? At which time it'll be much [clears throat] more expensive for you, the homeowner who's trying to sell the home and go to, you know, Florida. Lou, I got a question. Go ahead, Pat. I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry. Just one just one more followup question, Fred. So, [clears throat] to Gary's point in terms of the sir charge, let's say that someone paid someone calls in January, right? And to try to avoid the search charge to Frank's point, right? And and will they get build that anyway if they schedule in January? So, if you'll see the ordinance, they have to be notified. We're going to send out We're going to send out We're going to send out 225 certified letters. Yep.

To people again. We might not We didn't sort send certified before, but you know, consider the staff sending out 225 give or take a few certified letters to people reminding them again to please call the burrow and make an appointment. Okay. uh and at which time based hopefully that will will encourage people to make the appointment then on the list. Okay. But then this council has to decide how do we move forward, right? How do you want to move forward? We chose not to shut off water which we're unable to do because people are denying access to our meter. Fine. I understand that. But at the end of the day, what do you want to do? It's not my choice.

Okay. My recommendation is to move forward. You have to come up with a the carrots not orchid. I just want to just be clear sort of out loud for the public, right? So that the search charge will happen if you do not schedule before December 31st for January. So when we talk about January on on on the 1 of January, magically everybody's not going to have a $250 search charge of the 223 meters that have not yet been installed. It's not going to it's not going to happen that fast, right?

We need to go through the legal process providing people sufficient time most likely for most of January and then people hopefully will start calling and we'll get we'll get people on the list in the project there. But now let's say it's April, now it's March, right? Okay. And we still haven't in spite of our best efforts, right? You know, so I just wanted you to say that. Thank you that there is plenty of time. It's November 10th. People have plenty of time to get the schedule to avoid paying the search charge. That's what I just wanted. I want the public to hear that.

And so to the mayor's point, so we get to the point in the conversation where we have now 25 people or so on the call back list. And of course, people work as you know it's not inconvenient when I once vo Cormain maybe they have a 100 people on the call back list. Maybe now it's worth their effort to say, "Okay, I could get right. I could be here during this entire week, right? I mean, while they were had the project going on, they were installing meters every day, right? Okay. They installed meters in town every day because lots of people were calling, lots of people were making appointments. They installed on the weekends as we all know. Okay. They installed late at night. But now, how do you install? How do you make those hours available when no one is calling?"

Right? That's our challenge. Thanks. I just wanted to refresh for everyone. Council Pain, I want to apologize and I've wanted to since I said it. I I used your first name and I'm sorry that I did that. So, I've been wanting to apologize since I did that. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I have my opinion here. Whether whether it stands or not, everyone can have their opinion and and I just I just voice mine. So, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I got a question, Lou. Is there or maybe Fred is there any correlation between the lead line people that have lead lines and non-compliance with the meter replacement? No,

there's no there's no correlation. There's not a bigger people because have they have lead lines or it's just that people don't obviously we haven't gotten into the houses. We don't know if they have land lines. You don't know. They haven't been out there. But that won't hold the that won't hold [clears throat] the initiation of the uh replacement the replacement up. No, the meters go in Nevada regardless. Correct. Uh will you have that ready for the next council meeting the the scope of the replacement water uh the water line lead line replacement? Sure. Sure. If you could. Y so we could get the ball rolling on that. Thank you. Yeah,

as last mentioned, if your interest is in protecting our people, the people of the town, maybe that the longer they wait, the less chance they have of getting any grant money. And then at some point, that's a whole different conversation. The 250 a month, that's one conversation. But the conversation that happens in a couple years and they go, "Well, there was no grant money by the time I was left." Well, where were you on the list? That's going to be a real hard conversation because that's probably more like a five to $6,000 conversation. So, um, you know, I try to teach my kid not to, uh, to look both ways before they cross the street. Once in a while, I may have raised my voice. Yelling is not good. This isn't all that nice either. However, if you're just going to let them do it, at some point when the answer becomes there's a bill, there's another bill, you missed the grant, sorry, that's going to be an awkward conversation as well. I like to have my awkward conversations right from the beginning. Just

will the clerk please call the role. Council President Zambbrano, I. Councilman Collins, no. Councilman Mango, I. Councilwoman Payne, I. Councilman Posnansky, no. Councilman Potter, I. Motion carries. Mayor,

ordinance. Introduction. First reading. This introduction of ordinance 25-1577. There'll be no public input on this ordinance tonight. The introduction, summary will be published as required by law and a second reading, public hearing, and final adoption will be considered on the november 24th, 2025. Full copies of the ordinance will be posted on the bur website on the bulletin board at the municipal building and available at no cost in the office of the municipal clerk between the hours of 8:30 a.m., 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday. Will the clerk please read ordinance 251577 by title?

An ordinance to amend chapter 25 section water section 25-4.1 water rates of the revised general ordinances of the burrow of Miltown. May I have a motion in a second? So moved. Second. Have a motion made by Council President Zenbrana, second by Councilman Potter. Is there any comments? Yes, Mr. Mayor. Uh, no. There's nothing about sewer in here. Do we know if sewer is going to go up or is it fixed? Cuz our water bill gets the sewer bill also. So the water So the notification from East Brunswick is that the water rates are going up 3.5% in January, sir. New Brunswick. And that

Yes, New Brunswick. Sorry. And the sewer rate is tied to the water rate. Thank you. Seeing no further comments, will the clerk please call the role? Council President Zambrana, I. Councilman Collins, no. Councilman Mao, I. Councilwoman Payne, I. Councilman Posnansky, no. Councilman Potter, I. Motion carries. Mayor,

ordinance introduction, first reading. This This is an introduction on ordinance 251578. There'll be no public input on this ordinance tonight. The introductory introduction summary will be published as required by law and a second reading public hearing final adoption will be considered on the November 24th, 2025. Full copies of the ordinance will be posted on the borrow website on the bulletin board at the municipal building and available at no cost in the office of the municipal clerks uh between the hours of 8:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday. Will the clerk please read ordinance 251578 by title please?

An ordinance to amend chapter 22 electrical service section 22-38 general service of the revised general ordinances of the burrow of Miltown subsection 22-38.3 service rates. May I have a motion and second please? So moved. Second. I have a motion made by Council President Zimbran. Second by Councilman Potter. Are there any comments? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the role? Council President Zambbrana, I. Councilman Collins, no. Councilman Mango, I. Councilwoman Payne, I. Councilman Posnansky, no. Councilman Potter, I. Motion carries. May.

Ordinance in introduction first reading. This introduction of ordinance 251579. There'll be no public input on this ordinance tonight. The introduction introductory summary will be published as required by law in a second reading public hearing and final adoption will be considered on a November 24th, 2025. Full copies of the ordinance will be posted on the burough website on the bulletin board at the municipal building and available at no cost in the office of the municipal clerk between the hours of 8:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday. Will the clerk please read ordinance 251579 by title?

An ordinance to amend chapter 2 administration section 2-7 business administrator subsection 2-7.5 qualifications of the revised general ordinances of the bur of Miltown. May I have a motion and a second please? So moved. Second. I have a motion made by council president Zbranis. Seconded by Councilman Potter. Are there any comments? Yes, Mr. Mayor. I'm just uh reading the second. It says no elected member of the governing body may receive such an appointment as administrator during the member's normal term of office within 3 years of a normal expiration of members term of office except for the poss possibility of interimm appointment to full an absence 90 days. Is that correct?

That would mean anybody up here. That's correct. That is what the ordinance reads and that's what your ordinance read. That's not something that's being changed. That's already a part of your ordinance. The portion that's being changed is subsection B of the first paragraph.

Qualifications. Qualifications. That's all I have. Okay. Will the clerk please call the role? Council President Debr. I. Councilman Collins. I. Councilman Mco. I. Councilwoman Payne. Hi. Councilman Posnaskki I. Councilman Potter I. Motion carries. Thank you. Authorizing payment of municipal obligations. Next on the agenda we have authorizing payments of municipal obligations. Will the clerk please read resolution 2025-351 by title.

Resolution 2025 351 authorizing the payment of bills, claims, and statements against the burough of Miltown in the total amount of $654,6041. May I have a motion in a second, please? So move. Second. Motion made by Council President Zebrana, second by Councilman Potter. Is there any comments?

Yes. Well, I um this is for Mike or Lou. I just like clarification if I can. Um battery storage system 567575. Can you It's That's uh 1270 25 1270. Can you Can you tell me about that? Hang on a second. What second, Mr. Sorry. Which one is it? Um Oh, it's uh it's uh 1270 251 1270-1270. It's uh the battery storage system. Is it for because I'm trying to find out if it if it's the for the battery storage site that we're having come here. Yeah. What's the vendor name? See me vendor. Coc.

Yes. That's us coordinating with the It's the It's the engineer doing helping with that. That's right. We're doing coordination with construction. Okay. Um, a couple other things. I wasn't sure what the whether it's us or something. I'm I'm sorry. Um, I also have uh 1713 uh the main Main Street speed study. That's correct. You were authorized to prepare the study with regard to speeds on on Main Street. Okay. and uh Ford Avenue litigation, the legal aspect, you're involved in that because I didn't know that. Yeah. To the extent that there was, if you remember, there was a need to have us appear at the planning board uh for the redevelopment project. That's what that charge. Okay. All right. Just checking. Okay. Just checking up on you.

No, no, it's okay. Council, you do it anytime. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. Will the clerk please call the role? Council President Dan Brown. I. Councilman Collins. I, Councilman Mango, I, Councilwoman Payne, I, Councilman Posnansky, I, Councilman Potter, I. Motion carries.

A consent resolution has been prepared for the resolutions listed on the agenda. All matters listed under the consent agenda will be considered to be routine in nature and haven't been reviewed by Burough Council will be enacted on in one motion. Any [clears throat] items may be removed from the consent agenda at the request of any council member and if so removed will be treated on in a separate matter. As any items requiring expenditures are supported by a certification of funds. If any member of the council wants any resolutions acted upon individually, please give me the resolution number and it would be pulled from the consent resolution.

I do. It's 2025-355 355 you said. Yes, sir. Is that it? Yes. Okay. Will the clerk please read the consent agenda resolution?

Whereas pursuant to the rules of council, the council may establish a consent agenda for any regular or special meetings upon certain conditions. Whereas each of the following resolutions presented before the Burough Council at its regular at its November 10th, 2025 regular meeting appear to have the unanimous approval of all members of the Burough Council. Resolutions 2025, 353, 354, 356, and 357. Now therefore, be it resolved by the Burough Council of the Burrow of Miltown that each of the above listed resolutions be approved and adopted by the Burough Council with the same legal effect as though each was read in its entirety at the November 10th, 2025 regular meeting and adopted by separate vote. May I have a motion and a second, please? So move. Second.

I have a motion made by Councilwoman Payne, seconded by Councilman Potter. Will the clerk please call the role? Council President Zambrana. I. Councilman Collins. I. Councilman M. [clears throat] I. Councilwoman Payne. I. Councilman Posnetski. I. Councilman Potter. I. Motion carries. May. Will the clerk please read resolution 2025-355 authorizing certain personnel actions. Deputy municipal clerk. What's the pleasure of council? Make the motion this resolution be adopted. Second. Motion made by Councilman Potter, seconded by Councilwoman Payne. Is there any discussion?

Yes. I have um I have some questions. How much experience does this position call for in the ad to whoever wants to answer or not answer? I think the job posting said two years uh in the municipal clerk's office. Does this person have have that kind of experience? No, sir. But but that's what this position calls for. I I believe she works works at at your site. Yes, sir. And she's been there since March. Yes, sir.

Okay. She's had a lot of lot of jobs. I' I've looked at the background. Um we need stability here. Do you see stability here? I I mean to be honest, sir, you'll be here for another six weeks, correct? So correct this doesn't this doesn't affect you but it does affect us and and I think that maybe um a new committee would be would be better suited to to look for a person in my opinion and that can happen at York.

Okay. I don't know her. I have nothing against her. I I just I just know that I I looked at the resume and it was just just a little disconcerting to me because we do have issues here with people coming and going rapidly and I wouldn't want to see that happen there. Do you know if this job was posted on a state website or anything?

So this uh the position of the deputy clerk has been posted on the New Jersey legal municipality since Mary left eight months ago or whenever Mary and the deputy clerk left. We have gone through any of a number of iterations, brought in any of a number of possible candidates. It's still an open job search. Um, Councilman, the lady approached me uh in my job in Spotswood, asked me if the job was still open. I said yes. Uh, she talked to Gretch and she was interviewed by the personnel committee. Yes, her knowledge, uh, she's knowledgeable. uh as you could see from the resume, she came from the pharmaceutical industry which is going through a considerable flux.

Well, I I see a lot of things there. It just concerns me because the the job um the the timing on her job is is is every other year, every year, every other year. It just it just concerns me because you want some some stability here. It's here. I totally agree. Uh, but there are, as you well know, there are factors out there that we, you, I don't have any control of. I will say that right now there's no one in the clerk's office of Gretchen. I understand. I understand. And I know

and it's been that way. And it's been that way for three weeks. So, this lady's not showing up through the end of November. uh clerk's office and this council has talked back and forth for the last year and year and a half about how many people we should have in the clerk's office. Lots of philosophical conversations about whether we need two, whether we need three, then we need two and a half, whatever. But I will tell you one is a lonely number, but you want the right second one. Yes, sir. Absolutely. But you know, I I remember when there were three people in there. I agree. I'm not saying it was it was efficient because maybe there should have been two, but but I remember when there were three people there. So I I know that other bodies are needed,

correct? But they need to be the right ones. So So Councilman, there is a there is a 90-day probationary period. Correct. Yes, there is. So if you do have this person come in and if they're not working out, they you can let them go. Let them go. But you don't want to have to go through that. But we need the people in the office because we're getting complaints that there's there's we're lacking uh employees. So this is and this also was approved by the interviewed by the personnel committee, right? Yeah. And I want to assure you uh Councilman Pausnansky that the personnel committee has been interviewing as Mr. Carr has said consistently since the job was posted. So we have done our due diligence and we need someone in the office. I understand.

You know, so right now it's a necessity. Um and um you know I think she I think you know I was there for the interview and I think she's a good fit for right now. So we interviewed a couple of candidates who had considerable experience in a municipal clerk's office but we but we could not offer her them the salary that they wanted. Correct. And they said well I'm not leaving my current job unless you give me 75k which we would not offer in our salary ordinance. So they said okay and didn't take the job.

Mhm. I do agree when I I being part of the interview process that it per movement in transition they uh you know it it was I was aware of it and I do see where you look at that and you say that um I do think that the last employment or the current employment uh a lot of those tasks cross over into what you'd be doing here that position was part-time and expected to become full-time but is no longer going to be full-time there and that she needs a full-time position. Um, you know, your concerns are valid. Um, but again, we have a 90-day probationary that kind of covers us. It does seem I do think she interviewed well. Um, and you know, the skill set that she possesses will translate into being effective in a timely manner. Perfect.

I mean, I I agree with Councilman Bosnansky. I mean, this uh this should be a career path for somebody, not just a stopover. And if we're just going to do that, you know, I mean, you're just going to do what the same thing you're doing. Career path. What's that? Who says it's not going to be a career path? Well, oh, I don't know. This is a lengthy resume and it's doesn't seem like there's a clear career path here. Oh, okay. Do you I mean are you going to just hire somebody to fill the seat because you spent so much time in the in the burough clerk's office and you know the ins and outs of the burough clerk's office.

Well, I mean then you obviously have to address the problem instead of just putting somebody unqualified in there because uh we've had people here that somebody hired needed a file clerk and they lasted two days and they walked out. So we went through all this process for it was nil. Correct. But you're also assuming that everything that you're talking about we didn't address during the interview. And that's a lot to assume. That's right. I wasn't at the interview. I'm just asking the questions. Correct. Well, and I already said that we did a very thorough process. So all the issues you raised, I'm not saying that they're not legitimate. We had the same concerns and they were addressed.

I mean, if if it was me, I'd be hiring somebody on a career path to be a municipal clerk. But this way, but you did hear me say that we have been interviewing for months. So, has she addressed the the fact that there's no experience in the clerk's office? We asked her all the appropriate questions during the interview. We don't know what the questions are. So, that right because you're not on the committee. So, that's correct. In turn, it might be refreshing that you and Councilman Pasnansky trust your other council members doing our committee work as we trust that you are doing your committee work with due diligence.

Well, I also have a different perspective. My mother was a burough clerk in her town 40 years and her deputy clerk who became your clerk, I'm still close with. So, I I have an understanding that that other people may not and that's why I express my concerns here. Maybe you should have talked to Councilman Business first. Maybe I just had one question. Uh the former deputy clerk, didn't she have her certification for deputy clerk? No, sir. She was Sorry. She was taking Mary Mary was getting ready Mary was getting ready to take the classes. She was taking classes. She was getting ready to take the classes. Yes, sir. Is there a requirement that the physician take classes for it? No.

No. But during the process, during the interview process, she did express a desire to take those classes and do those. Uh you can see she has a college degree. Very knowledgeable. She's smart. Uh the uh we did not in my long convers I had a few conversations with her in Spotswood. Gretchen interviewed her separately herself extensively before we brought her to the personnel committee. Uh we did reach out to another candidate, Councilman Paznazki, uh who had more experience but never responded back. Uh we've had any of a number of I think the term of art is ghosted. Okay. Uh where we have called people and they've just not responded. They've just not responded like thank you for the invite. Thank you. No, just no response. Okay. Uh the world's different than it was 25 years ago when I started this profession or 30 years ago. I knew clerks like your mom who had been there since high school. They left high school and became work in a clerk's office and 40 years later they retired. You know that world is not there anymore. Be it for anybody in our professions.

Well well months ago you hired you hired someone for in the finance office and I know that [clears throat] you moved her into that office. Is she a help in there? Absolutely. Okay. They've done considerable effort in that office. Uh in fact, you know, we should during my council comments, I was going to talk about supple Clooney, but that's now's not the time, but the uh because you expressed some concerns in there. I mean, if you go to my office, you can see that they've made considerable off getting control of the paper. Oh, I know. I was going to talk about that tonight because I I saw firsthand.

Yes. which they did not have to which we did not have an opportunity to do last year at all uh or the first part of this year because we're busy just working. You never catch up.

Will the clerk please call the role? Council President Zambrano. I. Councilman Collins, no. Councilman Mango, I. Councilwoman Payne, I. Councilman Pnansky, no. Councilman Potter. I. Motion carries. Mayor, reports from elected officials. Council President Zimbrano. Mr. Mayor, I don't have any reports this evening. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Collins.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just have a short report for the uh library board. Uh the library will be closed on November 11th for Veterans Day. Rita Pooch, Saturday, Saturday 11:15, 12:30 p.m. Yoga with Marcy on Monday, November 17th. Registration required. Creating journaling, excuse me, creative journaling on Monday, November 15th at 4 10:45 p.m. Estate planning for everyone on Monday, November 15th at 4 p.m. Exploration Stations, ages 1 to 5 on Tuesday, November 18th. Registration required. After school movie, Tuesday, November 18th at 3 p.m. Library board meeting, November 18th at 6:30 p.m. Open to the public. Movie matinea, Wednesday, November 18th at 2:30 p.m. Friendship giving bingo and cover dish Saturday, November 22nd. Registration required. Library book club Monday, November 24th at 6 p.m. Vigna slow flow yogurt, Monday, November 24th. Registration required. Drop in play, Tuesday, November 25th at 10:30 a.m. Bingo at the Senior Center for Seniors, Tuesday, November 25th at 1:15 p.m. Tween craft Tuesday, November 25th at 3 p.m. Movie Matinea, Wednesday at November 26th at 2:30 p.m. The library will be closed Thursday, November 27th and Friday, November 28th. And happy Thanksgiving for all in the crochet for beginners on Saturday, November 29th at 11:00 a.m. And that concludes my report, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councilwoman Payne.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, police uh statistics for the month of October. Between October 1 and October 31, the police responded to 1510 calls for service. Um, during this period, they conducted 110 radar details and made 560 motor vehicle stops. During this period, the chief had asked me to be very clear in terms of the statistics because with our new recruits, uh, our numbers are going up and that's good for our township. Uh, there were 13 arrests made, uh, and that involved, um, arrests for burglary, possession of stolen property, shoplifting, DWI, possession of controlled dangerous substances, and active warrants. Um to note for traffic traffic traffic safety um there was a permanent solar powered speed radar sign that was installed on Ox Avenue just recently. Um it's a new sign cloud connected allows the police department to monitor traffic speeds and patterns in real time. Uh and this was at the request of several residents in that area that were complaining about um cars driving much too fast and creating a danger. Uh and so with that permanent sign um that should be really help that area um with those traffic concerns. Um on behalf of the fire department uh the total number of incidents for the month of October was 21 and 294

[clears throat]

um to date. Um what's important to note is that in terms of their process um with respect to replacing officers that there will be a nomination for the vacancy of deputy chief for the term in November and the fire department has proudly introduced its first Hurst extraction tool in October. I got a lot of information about the Hurst extraction tool. I'm learning a lot about all this equipment. The tool can be used to assist the rescue squad or enforcable entry scenarios or forcing upon o I'm sorry forcing open automotive hoods for engine fires. Um so there's a complete ensemble of rescue um equipment along with hydraulic lines and pumps. The cost of the equipment was estimated at $75,000. I'm happy to announce the cost to the bureau was zero. Um, members are needed and so the chief asked that I make an announcement as at tonight's meeting. Candidates who are interested in joining the Miltown Fire Department are encouraged to stop by the firehouse on Monday nights at 6:30 or email join Miltown Firegmail.com. And my final report is on behalf of the rescue squad and there were in October 78 total calls. Um they happily reported that for them an uneventful haunted riverwalk is a quite a success and they were able to spend a lot of time with the eighth grade class helping them um have a successful event. They too are looking for recruits. Um and you can email if you're interested at recruitment uh it's recruitment rescue squad.org. Um and that concludes my report for tonight. Thank you, Councilman Hazanski.

Sure. Um, this is I'm going to start with the senior center there. Uh, the remaining November trips include Thursday, November 12th, bus trip to Delicious Orchards. Monday, November 17th, bus trip to Mammoth Kitchen. The bus will leave at 11:15 a.m. On Wednesday, November 19th, a bus trip to Camilo's Restaurant. The bus will leave at 11:30 a.m. And Monday, November 24th, the bus trip to Amazing Savings. The bus will leave at 9:30. and upcoming events. The VNA nurse will be available for appointments on Monday, November 17th from 12 to 3, and the service is available for Miltown seniors free of charge each month. Please sign up on the bullet board if you're interested. And we're also having bingo with Debbie Miller. Um, new council woman. Uh, on Tuesday, November 25th, 1:15 with prizes. All are welcome to attend. [clears throat] And for the DPW, it's it's a short report. Um, leaf bags again are available Monday through Friday and Saturdays 8 till noon uh through November. And the leaf cleanup is ongoing in parks and will continue through November. And branches are being trimmed also throughout town. And Ralph Jazinowski and I uh walked Albert Avenue Park because the new bike path will be coming in and we're trying to determine the best area for it. And um also for the seniors um and I hope Ron Dixon is watching this in honor of the men and women from the American Legion Women's Women's Auxiliary and Sons of the American Legion Post 25. I would like to thank them for the generous donation for the senior center. It's greatly appreciated and will be used to help those in need. Um Commander Dixon dropped off a check. I believe it was $2,500. It may maybe have been more, but it wasn't less. He didn't he didn't do it to get any kind of recognition for it, but I want to give him the recognition for it. And uh that concludes my report. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Butter.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. From the uh Miltown Recreation Department, we've had a fun-filled and successful fall season and several of our adult programs are scheduled to wrap up mid December. Our recreation advisory meeting was held this past Thursday, November 6th. The fall co-ed softball championship game was also held on Thursday, November 6. Congratulations to all of our teams for a great season and especially to team number four, this team this season's champions. Our fresh theater program will present its final performance of Descendants on Tuesday, November 11th. Our late fall indoor soccer clinics kick off this Thursday, November 13th at Parkview School. And we're thrilled to share that registration numbers are at the highest we've ever seen. Don't miss your last chance to join. The registration deadline is Tuesday, November 11th. New this fall, cooking classes at Marcel's Kitchen in East Brunswick. This fun, hands-on program will run for four weeks, beginning Monday, November 24th, and concluding on December 15th. Uh, it's designed for children ages 9 through 12. The registration deadline is Monday, November 17th. Winter youth basketball registration is now open. We're excited to see several volunteers who have already sign already signed up to coach and take advantage of our $25 coaching incentive which offers a discount to one child's registration. More youth programs are being offered this fall. Chess, kids yoga, and mad science funky forces. Registration is now open for all these programs on community pass. Adult winter program registration will be open in the next few weeks, so please keep checking Community Pass for updates. Mark your calendars. The annual treelighting ceremony is scheduled for Friday, December 5th. We'll be holding a winter cult drive at Burough Hall from December

3rd 1st to December 19th. Help families in need this winter. We're accepting gently used or new coats, scarves, gloves, and hats for both children and adults. We reserve tickets at the state theater for Friday, May 1st for the Price is Right Family Fun Night. Registration opens this week. Seats are limited and could make a great holiday gift. Please contact the registration department with any questions at 732-828-2100 extension 141 or email kimgraphtown.com. And please be sure to visit our recreation web page and familiarize yourself with upcoming programs and help us continue to make meal time recreation a community in motion. From the planning board, the meeting in November was cancelled and the next meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, December 3rd. And from the Miltown Fourth of July committee, two upcoming events, Saturday, January 24th, karaoke night at the Miltown BFW. and Saturday, April 18th, our first annual Red, White, and Brew event at the American Legion. Stay tuned for more details uh being shared in the upcoming months. And Mr. Mayor, that concludes my report.

Thank you. Uh I just have a brief report. Uh the Schwinman uh subcommittee uh met at the cabin. We did a walk through with Mr. Jazznowski and uh we were uh trying to schedule the next meeting within the next two weeks. Um more reports after that. Uh reports from burough professionals. Mr. Peter Vinolo. Uh Mr. Mayor, uh just one note, the executive session for this evening does not need to occur. That can be taken off the agenda. Um and I have no further report. I apologize. One second. I'm sorry. All right. Um, Councilman Mango, sorry.

That's all right. Uh, utilities were in the forefront tonight and there's not much to report on. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um, a couple of things to report on tonight. The Northbrook Drive phase one project is nearing completion. The contractor recently restored all the lawn areas with sod, um planted replacement trees, repaired uh sidewalks that needed repairing and um we're working towards closing out that project. Um the North Brook Drive phase 2 project um has had the survey work completed and the road design is underway. Um that's the same for Albert Avenue bike path phase 2. um survey work is done and the path design is underway. And finally um and with regard to the green space self- storage project, the board approval for that project required a water mane loop that loops from Ryder's Lane through the site to the end of Leonard Road, which is a dead end water line. Um that water line is mostly installed. The contractor needs to make the connection on Leonard Road and that's going to require a water shutdown. Um that's scheduled for November 18th and the homes that are going to be affected by that have been notified this past Friday. And that concludes our report. Mr. Mayor,

thanks Mr. McQueen. No. Okay. Uh Mr. Park.

Yes, Mayor. Thank you. So, I just had a quick followup to our conversation last uh council meeting. Councilman Pesnowski asked a question regarding supply including and what do they do? I thought I would bring in. So this is you know one month's of bank reconciliations or bank statements that they do for finance. There's 16 of them in here uh that they do every month for the bureau uh especially in finance. Uh if you look at the one for the current fund or the fund that we use to pay the bills, it's about 12 pages long. Uh that's a substantial bank statement to reconcile every month to the penny. Now, in my house, if I get my bank wreck and I'm a couple of bucks off, I just sort of punt and I move on or I put a note to myself. You can't do that in the business that we're in. It has to be to the penny all the time. Uh and that's a that's a timeconsuming, laborious uh conversation, if you will. You look at tonight's bill list, there were 65 checks on that on that bill list just for tonight. And tonight's a light night. Uh next council meeting, uh I spent some time this morning uh paying the school and this county, you know, I blew through about $3 million worth of money today just paying the bills for, like I said, the school and the county. Plus, we're going to have a substantial bill list, you know, as we get closer to the end of the year. U it's a lot of work. Part of what she does is that I'll get a one she does this every month or when they do it month every month I'll get a Excel spreadsheet where we now move money within the accounts and now of course tied into Edmonds not just not just tied into the bank itself but these numbers are tied into Edmonds where then for instance we pay postage I'll get a little spreadsheet that says move money from current to uh claims or claims the

current as we pay all these different bills to settle it and make sure it's tied out to the penny every month. Uh, anybody would like to look at these uh, you know, you can look at them. I ask that you not obviously take them with you since they have our bank account numbers on them and we don't want to find them in the trash can. And Mayor, I'm finished. I just want to say, Fred, that also adds to the fact that that's an independent auditor. Yes. And so that not the in-house are not people are only looking at it and you know

it's always good even with the audit if you consider that our audit current audit of uh PKF Okconor last year uh Samuel Klein it's always good to have an outside look as part of the internal controls a fresh look because we as humans have a tendency you see something uh and you see the same mistake and you don't see it I mean how many times you proofed your own paper when you're in college or high school or any document and then you give it to somebody else and they they point out a huge obvious mistake that you know you've been staring at this document all day and you didn't see that you're using the wrong word. You totally out of or you said it twice and you just didn't even break the code. That's all I have. Thank you, mayor, and I thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. No report.

Old business. Does any member of council have any old business to bring before council? Well, I do. Um, it it it dovtales into what Mr. Carr was saying about the the new clerk. Um, I' I'd like to express my appreciation for the new clerk in the finance office. She's ripped through files sitting for years in three weeks time. And I'd also like to thank the original clerk in the office. I I won't use her name, but she knows who she is because she had told me that she found an old resume and went through it and contacted the person and uh I believe she's the right person for the for the job. Um at the same time, the DPW when a clerk was out on sick leave, her co-orker working part-time was limited by her hours for helping residents. Um as I recall, we hired another person in the finance department who may or may not still be there. Uh she was vetted, voted on, and hired. Uh we had another person and and she's in the clerk's office now. Um we have a lot of movement in one office and not not enough in others. Um I believe there must be a needs assessment for different departments. Annual reviews are important for employees. Also union standards may apply yet not all employees are union. All of our employees are important to the residents are appreciated and are appreciated by most. They must also be treated respectfully by officials as well as by the residents. And that concludes that report.

Okay. Uh close all business. Does any member of council have any new business to bring before council tonight? Are we going to address the notice of change of rules of council? That's a news business. Yes, sir.

Well, I I just think this is foolish. This is like changing uh the rules in the fourth quarter and say, "Okay, you guys got to apply a new rule. We should just wait till the beginning of the year." I don't see why we'd want to change this. Second of all, I think this impedes someone's first amendment rights limiting a council person to five minutes. I don't understand. I've never complained about it. I may not like what some people have to say up here some days, but I listen to them and I respect their first amendment rights. I don't certainly don't want to impose upon if they have something to say and a point to bring across. I'd want to give them their 10 minutes or 15 minutes because it's imperative that they exercise their first amendment rights. I I don't know why someone would request this, but [snorts] um I I I I would I'd rather spend 20 minutes listening to somebody here than I would rather to deny them their first amendment. Right. So I don't understand. I would just like I'd rather move this and postpone this till the first of the year.

Well, I agree with Councilman Collins and I have a lot to say about it. I was going to say it tonight, but I'll say I'll save it for the next from the next meeting. But uh also to to uh to infringe on the the speaking rights of of people here, elected officials, that our job is is to relate to the residents, to the taxpayers, what they need to know or maybe what they'd like to know or just our opinions on things because that's why we were elected here. That's why we were put up here. So I I appreciate what Councilman Collins is saying and I will have more. I actually wrote something to to to speak about tonight and I will read it next meeting.

Yes. I I mean our our job up here is to educate and inform the public. Uh you know whether that takes more time for us. It that depends. But I'm certainly I I've never had anybody up here complain it about anybody else speaking too much. Although there are some people that do abuse it. So, as the gentleman who created or requested the creation of this change, uh that was me again, Councilman Frank Manuel, Miltown, uh just we all know. Um simply, if the people who elected us, when they come up to make comments, they're directly told five minutes. After everybody speaks, you get five more.

Is that how it works? Yeah, that's kind of how we've been doing it. That's kind of how it's said every I think that's kind of how what the mayor says. So, I kind of figured you know what is that? Why do we cuz comments also do not I'm timing you right now by the way.

Well, that's great. Well, see this is under new under new business. So, doesn't really follow the same parameters. New business is typically where we create new business and this is new business. But the other way of looking at it from where I was sitting is also that in comments there's statements. They don't they don't create litigation. They don't create things for the town. That's typically where new business or old business. That's where that stays or that's where that starts. So comments are really more arbitrary and the town does not suffer uh any loss if an opinion gets shortened or presented as uh as John Stewart of the Daily Show created uh I blame FDR because he started the first podcast and since then uh they've taken over.

I mean pardon my frankness Frank but you've abused it more than anybody else. [laughter] And then I guess I'm doing them a service by silencing my own tongue. Well, I don't think you're doing a disservice, you know, violating people's first amendment rights. I think that's I think the First Amendment is the worst thing you can bring up in this. It's ridiculous. No one's stopping anyone from talking. It's basically just saying you get five and then you get five later. And if you can't save the world in 10 minutes, then probably just, you know, say what you can and move on.

Excuse me. I'd like to one more statement would be we don't own Fort Avenue. So everybody who thinks that we can do something or we should have done something it's not ours. So I would like to invade the moon or possibly colonize it can't do that either. That's new business. So if we could vote on that next but also at the top of this it also mentions at the reorganization meeting on January 6th. That's when we would adopt this. So, this is just putting it out there so you could read it ahead of time, but they were talking about January, not anything special or immediate.

Nope. Actually, just for the record, uh both of the uh notice of changes for tonight would be something that would be placed before the council for adoption as an amendment to the rules at your next meeting. So, you guys need to decide what you want to do. Maybe you should have read the council notes, Frank. If if if you could let me finish, councilman, for a second, I appreciate it. Um we we've focused on one of the changes tonight, but there are two changes proposed to the rules of council. The second being uh having uh committee reports read at each meeting as opposed to just the first meeting. So and that is that is a secondary change to the rules of council. That was proposed for this meeting. I believe was uh profered by Councilman Pausnansky and uh as well as you Councilman Collins last meeting.

Well, that's the way it was for 18 months and somebody somehow changed it, but we didn't get to vote on it. Well, it's actually been only at the first meetings in your rules since January. Um whether or not you decided not to follow those rules is your prerogative, which I've indicated many times before. Like like I said, I'd rather I appreciate my fellow councilman's first amendment rights to be able to speak. Although some people go off on a tangent somewhere, you know, start talking about Kissinger in China and a $20 lunch, but that doesn't have any I would just merely indicate that, you know, the First Amendment is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner rules. Um and That's what we ask the mayor for. He can gabble us down on that.

Well, just just for the record, the the council has seen fit to tell the public that the reasonable time, place, and manner of their comments is 5 minutes plus an additional five. So, if you were to impose that upon other council members, it would be a reasonable time, place, and manner restriction on your on your speech. So, so is it the council meeting or is it the public meeting? I'm sorry. Excuse me. Is it the council's meeting or is it the is it the the audience? I don't I think we're having an esoteric uh you know theoretical discussion regarding something that's really unnecessary. I think it's the burough's meeting and you're conducting the burough's business.

Right. How can we put a timer on there? You going to put an hourglass on it? Turn it over when we you know our time's up. I'm sorry. I I I will not be a proponent of holding that timer. Sir, I'm just merely indicating that you know that that restriction would be reasonable. That's all I'm saying. Whether or not you choose to vote for that restriction is your prerogative, sir. Well, I I mean, doesn't that impede our First Amendment rights, sir? I think I just answered that question.

I think part of this is, and it's it's it's not really being spoken, is that there are people who who speak and there are people who don't like this what what is spoken, and I and I'll be honest, I'm I'm the one who does most of the talking during council comments. So, if if if if the uh the motion is levied towards me, I welcome it. And we'll have a nice discussion next meeting. Sounds good. because I am prepared. All right, seeing no further new comments. Could I ask one question, please? In preparation for the next agenda, are we just talking the one rule of council to be changed or both? Whatever. Whatever's on here. There were two. There were two.

There were two. Yes. The the secondary one was the request that you and Councilman Pausnansky had last meeting to remove from your agenda an indication that council reports would only be read at the first meeting of the month. I had emailed you and Councilman Pausnansky about that. Um hadn't heard back. So I decided that in light of the fact that we were already addressing changes to the rules of council, I would include it in tonight's agenda. So that that is there. That is something that's be being you can decide you don't want to do that anymore. You're prog.

I'd like to do that, but I' I'd like to know how it came about that every meeting it was expected that reports were due. I mean, the reports came, I believe, to the clerk, just like they came to Monica, and there was no discuss. There was never a discussion that it was only supposed to be one meeting a month until there was a problem with the council comments and then it was it was looked up and reverted back and which is why I wanted to to change because I understand like like you said, uh, Mr. Mr. Vinola, that sometimes we don't follow Robert's rules. Correct. Sometimes you don't follow your own rules. I mean, well, Robert's rules are aren't they aren't they one and the same? Generally,

your rules and Robert's rules. No, you your council rules are your council rules, and they are supplemented by Robert's rules of order. So, you you you utilize them as part of your rules, but your rules lay out how you conduct your agenda, what you do and you don't do, how long people can speak, how your committees are created, and all of that is in your rules. Um, it's But but you see the agenda before it comes out, do you not? Do I see the agenda before it comes out now?

Well Well, you Well, well, like when I'm speaking about I I mean, and it's silly with with the committee reports, we're supposed to do them once a month. We've been doing them twice a month. Did Did you notice that like past year and a half that again I've I've I've mentioned it many a time. It it is not my prerogative to tell the council what it needs to do or not do with respect to its rules and whether it follows them. They are they are rules. they they are not a a a law that is going to be uh you know subject to some arbitrary third party coming in and saying that they've violated them and there is a punishment to be accorded. I mean you guys follow them or you don't follow them.

I'm I'm not expecting you to to to opine on that. But at the same time, it's just interesting how we've been going about consecutively doing reports at every meeting even though it's not called for. And then um it's abruptly changed because council comments were brought back. It's just interesting to me. Well, I think the what was done was there was a concern that the council wasn't following the rules that it adopted in January to the letter and in light of the fact that there was a concern because they had been changed without any vote that they were returned to what they were and at that point if the council wanted to change the rules to be something else, it's the council's prerogative. I think

I appreciate that you're that you're speaking about it, but other people who are the ones changing the the the rules or the laws have not said anything. I don't think anybody's changed the laws. No, no, they may have changed. So, okay. Um, January 6th reorg. Yes, sir. The the the law that we passed here to to have the agenda template. Was that a law? Yeah, you can decide. Was that a law or was it not a law or was it Robert's rules or was it was it or by law? A set of rules that you decided as a council you were going to abide by and it was changed. Correct. The rules were changed. The the rules were changed twice. The rules were changed.

But but who changes the rules? Is it twothirds majority of of council or is it is it the clerk or is it the business administrator? Because the the the the uh the council did not change. I I think you know the answer to a councilman. No, but I'm asking you. But can you tell me can you tell me then? I we have opined on the rule change or the No, but I'm asking you to tell me who changed who changed the the law because it was a law. Am I correct? It's sir. No, I'm asking you. I'm Am I correct? Was it a law or was it not a pass law on January 6th? Sorry. It was a set of rules 2025-22. You adopted a resolution. You adopted a resolution for a set of rules you were going to abide by and then decided not to necessarily abide by the rule. Who who decided?

I think the council did when it decided it was having committee reports at the second meeting. No, no, please. I'm not talking about that. I understand you're not talking about that. But you are, but you're changing the the council comments. Was that voted into law or was it not? Was it voted into law? Did we Did we vote on January 6 to have council comments? Yes. I I'm not speaking in riddles here. No, we're speaking in circles, sir. Are we I think we are. I think I I think Oh, okay. Who Who gets to change the law? Who who gets to change the law to to get rid of council comments? I think there was an attempt made to streamline your meeting. I think that

by who? But but does council not vote on that? Sir, I think you know the answer to the question. Otherwise, we wouldn't be back to the way it was. I'm finished here. Okay. So, my my question is if they're going to bring this as a resolution to the next meeting, is it both of them or just one of them? It's going to be it'll be it'll be two separate resolutions because I don't like to do things like that in conjunction because it creates some confusion as to how you vote on the resolution. So this was proposed as two different notices of change of the rules of council, one for each of the uh you know respective changes and they will be presented as independent resolutions at the next meeting. Council

I'd like to close with new business open to the public. The public comment portion of our meeting is to allow the public to bring to the council's attention their concerns or comments. The council will respect the public's time by refraining from any comments until speaker has finished. It should be further noted that the public comment portion of our meeting is not structured as a question and answer session. Please state your name and address for the record. when you come to the podium. Just a reminder, under the rules of council, individuals wishing to speak uh the during the public input part of the meeting should be limited to a five minutes and may after other speakers have finished may be allowed to speak for a second fiveminut period. If someone raises their hand, please come up to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. Uh Debbie Miller, 92 Ford Avenue. Um after the last meeting, I watched it um the next night or next night after that and there was a lot of static in the communication. So I watched a couple others the same thing. I think that the residents deserve better and if there's money to improve that, it should be used to improve it. The other thing I I have a question about or a comment are I guess they're um watching how that electronic speed thing works on Oats Avenue and I know Main Street is probably um a county road, but has there ever been a consideration to maybe put one of those in the beginning of Main Street,

you know, when people are coming from North Brunswick and also though on Ford Avenue cuz the trucks are seeming to go faster and faster. Thank you, Debbie. Could if you could send me an email and I'll follow up with the chief on those questions.

Thank you. Weisenberger, 99 JFK Drive. Uh, I'd just like to get a little information once again on a township acquiring property. We're talking about rules, state, county, whatever. What rules would Miltown follow to acquire property? Is that state rules.

You know, if we're going to purchase a piece of property, the town, are they they're not council rules. So, those are coming from we're following state statute, something as far as what the uh purchasing, we would purchase property just like everything [cough] like everyone [clears throat] else would. Uh unless you're talking about eminent domain. Is that what you're referring to? Well, that would be one case, but just like when we exchange property for the uh the electric substation, we had to swap and we did a land swap. Correct. And there was a lot of documentation swapped in an ordinance. Typically, it's an ordinance that would be adopted. Yeah. Pursuant to, you know, a state statute.

Yeah. because my my point to that uh I've read over 1,300 township ordinances from 2016 up and uh a much lesser amount of uh well resolutions a much lesser amount of ordinances and once again there's nothing in there about acquiring the pond. So I'm just curious once again how that can happen and my understanding then four people or four entities get involved in that. It would be the council, it would be the township engineer I believe would have to be involved, the tax assessor and the planning board. So that's what I'm saying. this this problem with the pond and there's nothing out there on this is is just, you know, a nightmare. I I don't get it. And I just want to bring that out because I'm I'm trying to understand this thing yet. Uh but we're going to we'll change to something else. Now, in the newspaper archives, I've been digging back again and uh I'm curious now. Mike might be able to answer this. uh the county planning.

You're a long time leader. Yeah, sure. Well, cuz you're associated with many towns in the county. Yes, we are.

Right. So, this bit about the chain of lakes. Uh when I started digging back, I got recent information that was in 2000 when they were talking about dredging that whole thing. And now I dig back and this is going back into 77 when they started talking about it and talking about dredging the whole thing 12 1/2 ft and then 9 ft. So for 23 years this dragged around. There's a ton of articles. And then in 2000, that study came out by Army Corps and everybody else, the 900,000 cubic yards. And since then, nothing another 25 years. So, I'm curious if CME hears anything from the county, what's going on down here, because they they treat it. It's one of the most valuable resources we have the water and the whole county's involved. State of New Jersey is involved yet. What's going on? [clears throat]

I have not heard anything from the county or any municipalities that we know of that we work with that uh about the dredging.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, the judging, but the I'm just wondering who the contact is then with the county, the county planning board that who's who's running the show down here, you know, cuz this has been put off now 50 years and and nothing's going on. So, this price tag is going ching ching ching ching. And, you know, we need the water. There's no question about that because all these articles pertain to everything where the water comes from South River, the aquifer, all this stuff, saltwater intrusion, blah blah blah, the whole thing, and uh the Runion waterershed, old bridge and all that. All in trouble, pollution, whatnot. This one here is one of the best and yet it's just being treated. You know, nobody cares. I don't get it. That's what I said. I don't know whose door we got to knock on down here, but I'd love to know. They paid a ton of money for a ton of studies. Nothing. So, I just wanted to bring that up tonight, you know. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Seeing none, uh, no more, I'll close audience comments. this council, any council members have any comments? Yes, Mr. Mayor, just a short comment. Uh, it's it's an ask to the entire council. Um, we have two meetings scheduled in December. Uh, the first meeting is on the 8th. The second meeting is on the 22nd. Um, would you um uh like to have one meeting on the 15th instead of having two two weeks uh apart? I'm fine with 15th. No, I'll fight with two two one one one. I'm good with one. Sounds good. Good idea.

All right. So, changing from the 8th and the 22nd to just the 15th. And uh we did check with Joe Zanganger, our CFO, uh just to make sure that he could do that and do whatever budget transfers he had to do. Um we go from there. Thank you. Thanks, Phil. [cough and clears throat]

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to just a couple comments. Uh, first I would like to say a heartfelt shout out to Jimmy Walsh for completing his 10th and final New York City Marathon. A remarkable milestone in a journey of dedication and purpose. Over the past decade, Jimmy has raised tens of thousands of dollars for ovarian cancer awareness, a close cause to his heart following the loss of his mother and mother-in-law to the disease. In honor of his mom's memory and inspired by her birth date, October 26, 1026, Jimmy set out a personal goal to run 10 26 mile marathons from 2016 to 2025. This year, he proudly crossed the finish line of his 10th race, fulfilling that promise. Jimmy, on behalf of the mayor and council, congratulations on this extraordinary achievement and for making such a meaningful impact in the fight against ovarian cancer. [applause] And uh finally, Mr. Mayor, in uh in honor of Veterans Day, we extend our sincere thanks to all of our veterans. Your service and sacrifice are deeply appreciated and we are forever grateful for your dedication to protecting our freedom. Thank you.

I I have something also, but I'd like to ask Councilman Collins if he'd like to speak about TK1 because we met with them last week. Sure. Uh yes. Uh in qu in answer to Mr. Debbie Miller's uh question, we did have TK1 in here. Is it TK1 or TK TK1? TK1. TK1.

Yeah, TK1 in here. And uh they said they could do this in a matter of weeks, I guess. And uh it's not a substantial cost. I think they could do it around $2,500 to $5,000 to have the whole sound system and camera system redone, which hasn't been done in I guess 30 years, right? So um you I just also like to say thank our thank your veterans and for their service to our country. Without them, we may not be at this meeting tonight for fighting for our country and fighting for our people. Thank you.

Go ahead. Sure. I'd like to read something. Um, the 11th hour, the 11th day, the 11th month. 1918 was when the fighting stopped and armistice was signed. World War I was over on this date in 1919 became the first armistice day, which in 1954 became Veterans Day to honor all veterans for their service to our country. I'd like to say to all veterans, you deserve nothing less than our respect, gratitude, and respectful recognition of your sacrifice, duty, and service. And I have a couple quotes. I've included u our debt to the heroic men and women and valiant women in the service our country can ever be repaid. They have earned our undying gratitude. America will never forget their sacrifices. That was from President Harry H. Truman. And there's another poignant quote for our veterans. Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they ever made a difference in the world. A soldier doesn't have that problem. President Ronald Reagan. I will also honor the United States Marine Corps who today are celebrating their 250th anniversary, their 250th birthday no today, November 10th. Their motto sefidelis always faithful. And uh I will thank Fred Carr for your service. And that concludes my report for tonight. If I may, uh, I would like to say that when I was running for this position, uh, that year, we were aggressively mentioning how, uh, we felt maybe Republicans or whoever I was, we were running that the council had done a disservice by not getting out in front of the rate changes on a year-to-year basis. and we pointed it out in last year's things had to go up and all. I'm just happy that this year um

we did that. We are trying the council is actively trying to work to keep things from ever swelling to a boiling point where you get hit with big bills. It doesn't make it doesn't make any decisions good or better. It doesn't make them any easier on the council, but it's the right thing to do. And some of those things are hard things to do, hard things to say, but they are done in the best interest of the town. And sometimes it whether it seems like it's a choice, it's really not. The bill's got to get paid just what it is. Uh I do thank all the veterans. Um, one other thing I would just mention, um, the 12U Miltown Padres's are planning a trip for their 2026 Coopertown trip and there was a fundraiser this Wednesday at Chick-fil-A in North Brunswick. Um, you mentioned them and they get some that helps them pay for their trip. Something to think about. Thank you very much. Seeing none. Okay, I'll close council comments. Uh I have a couple comments. One, I'd like to congratulate the 250th celebration of the Marine Corps uh as well. Um I also um I thought about this uh in great detail. Um, Miss McCarthy, I am vetoing ordinance 251576 regarding the replacement of the water manes due to concerns about the fines outlined in the proposal. It is unreasonable for the burrow to impose the penalty of $250 per month on a residence when the town itself has approximately 15 meters that are not yet installed. The burough currently

operates uh not being uh operates not being hindered and remaining less than 10% of the meters awaiting installation nor by the existing list of service line replacements. Additionally, residents with the lead or galvanized lines would under current plans be placed on the end of the replacement list funded by the million-doll grant. Has each council member considered the fine of $250 per month placed in a serious financial burden on the residents potentially even in lie of possibly losing their homes through the burrow through annual sales tax sale. We should be acting as responsible neighbors and representatives, not imposing punitive measures that could harm our residents. I urge you to reconsider the priorities reflected in this ordinance as I think you need to check the priorities instead of trying to rule the burrow with an iron fist.

Thank you. Um Peter, are we doing executive session? No executive session items. Okay. I have a question about the veto power at this time. I'd entertain a motion to I have a comment about your comments. Mr. Vnola, can you explain how the mayor's veto power works to the council? You had your comments? No, I'm asking him a question. I couldn't comment until you vetoed, mayor. So, I want to know what to be fair at this point, the mayor's veto may be a little premature. He's merely advised you of his intent to veto because the ordinance hasn't been adopted on second reading. When the ordinance is adopted on second reading, assuming it is, the mayor has expressed his intention that he will veto that ordinance.

Well, it's good to know ahead of time, mayor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. probably would have been good if you would have mentioned that during the the reading so we could all spoke about it. At this time, I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. I had a motion made by Councilman Collins, seconded by Councilman Potter. All in favor? I. Any oppose? Thank you.