Zoning Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

Ms. Sopaya, may you please read the public notice statement?

In accordance with Chapter 231, PL 1975, the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required, specifying the time and location, with such notices being sent to the Asbury Park Press and the Times of Trenton, posted on the Municipal Public Notice Meeting Bulletin Board, and filed with the Township Clerk.

Thank you very much. Everyone will please stand for a flag salute. And then afterwards, please stand silently for a moment of reflection and respect, remembering those who in the past have served our country and those who are presently serving. Thank you. Danielle, may we have a roll call?

Ms. Ormeya? Yes. Vice Chairman Bartholomew?

Here.

Mr. Cadigan?

Here.

And for the record, Chairman Mostyn is absent today. Mr. Bartholomew will be in his place this evening as the chairperson. And Mr. Ferrara, Mr. Sintra, and Mr. Galdesi are all absent this evening. Mr. Cox will be seated for Mr. Ferrara.

Thank you. Greg, you completed the oath of office for Mr. Couch? Yep. Okay, thank you very much. Next is the approval of the April 22nd minutes. Did everyone get a chance to see them or have any questions, comments, or concerns?

No comments.

All right, no comments. Can I have a motion to approve the meeting in minutes?

I'll do the motion to approve.

I'll second. Thank you.

Mr. Arpaio? Yes. Mr. Bartholomew? Yes. Mr. Cadigan?

Yes. Motion approved. That's it? Thank you very much. And then for the annual report review, Greg, we're going to carry that, correct? To the July 22nd meeting? Yes. All right, that's complete, so we'll move on to resolutions. The first one up is resolution ZB2026-08, and that was the tree expert services. Does anyone have any thoughts, comments, or concerns with that resolution? I do not.

I do not.

Seeing no one, may we have a motion to approve? Motion to approve.

And a second. I'll second that.

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, that is for our licensed tree expert, who was Sherry Spiro from CME Associates. The company has been acquired by Arpium, and that is the reason for that update. Also, we'll just finish that one. I apologize. Ms. Arpaia? Yes. Mr. Barthmas?

Yes.

Mr. Cadigan?

Yes.

Mr. Lambros?

Yes.

And Mr. Couch? engineering services. We all heard from Matt Shafai at our last meeting that he has retired. We wish him the best in his retirement, wish him luck, and we're excited to see him go, but we are happy to welcome Gregory Flash, who has been a partner of his in the same firm, Liana Sabakian, and we are looking to amend our resolution to include

Great. So that's what Resolution 202609 is. Correct. All right. Would anyone like to make a motion? First of all, welcome, Gregory. Appreciate you being here, and we look forward to working with you. You too. Thanks. It would have been nice if Matt actually told us at the last meeting he was here.

That would have been nice, too. Instead of sending an email.

I'll make the motion. I'll do a second. Mr. Armaia?

Yes. Mr. Bartholomew?

Yes.

Mr. Cadigan?

Yes.

Mr. Lambros?

Yes.

And Mr. Couch?

Yes.

All right, the next one.

Mr. David Wassinger. Yeah. Go ahead, Greg.

Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'll jump in on this one real quick. So that's a resolution where we granted an approval for certain improvements to the residential home. The last meeting was carried because Mr. Pate wanted to review the resolution with his professionals. Following that... Is that Mr. Merkle? Oh. This is Wassinger. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to... We'll have to skip to Merkel since I already... Let's talk about Mr. Merkel. Go ahead. All right. So part of that resolution, there was two issues that we put as conditions, and Mr. Pape wants to ask the board for clarification. One was, if you recall, there's a shed where the goats are going to live. I think they were like the pop, crackle, and something like that. Snap, crackle, and pop. Our ordinance requires, and we discussed it, that the shed had the same material and colors as the main house, which in this case would be siding. Now, that's in our ordinance provision. It's required if the shed is over 200 square feet, which in this case it is. Mr. Pape, after discussing with his client, requested us potentially to modify that to a different type of material for the fear that goats are going to eat the siding, and he wanted something Better to protect the goats. The second issue was, if you recall, as part of the approval, there was a garage in the rear. And one of the conditions they needed, impervious coverage variants and the like, one of the conditions and discussions was that they were not going to put any gravel, any type of material, anything to make that a driveway, if you all recall that. Mr. Pape's client was thinking, talking about potentially installing a plastic structure that's underground that's covered with soil and then grass as a potential stabilization. So the resolution I drafted don't have those two issues and generally if the attorney makes changes to my resolution which I don't think are minor that really don't need major changes. I'll just tell you I did it. But for these two items, since Mr. Pape was going to hear, I didn't want to agree to any of them without discussing with the board. So why don't you quickly address those two issues and the board can decide whether they want to modify the resolutions for that.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, on behalf of Dan Merkle, There are two requests of Mr. Merkle. The first is the language for the shed is that it shall be the same materials and the same color and the same style. Mr. Merkle has no issue at all with the colors, and he has no issue at all with the style. His home has a clabbered-style vinyl siding. It looks like clabbered, but it's vinyl. Goatee vinyl. He has asked, can I use wood clabbered or cementitious clabbered? Same color, same style. Just not vinyl. Goats won't eat the wood and they won't eat the cement. That was the first one. And the second, Mr. Merkle had found a grid, a plastic grid that you bury in the ground, soil over it, sod over it. It's not a driveway. From the surface it'll be lawn, but you'd like to put an apron of this across the front of the garage just so that the area, immediately in front of the garage, has some stabilization. The goat issue is critical to Mr. Merkel. The other one, if you're comfortable, he'd like to do it, but it's not critical.

So it's more so the ground doesn't sink, you're saying, as he puts the vehicles in and out?

It's a product that's out there. It just stabilizes the soil below the surface.

Yeah, I was going to say that our new engineer, Mr. Gregg, will put you on the spot right away. What do you think of that type of system?

I don't have a problem with it as long as it's mostly used for, like, fire accesses, for fire trucks and stuff, so it gets very stable and can take a lot of weight. My question would be is when you say in front of the garage, what's the width and the depth of this going to be? It's not for a driveway.

No, no, it would be like a two-foot apron.

Just by the width of the doors?

And the width of the door, just to stabilize the area in front of the door.

And I would have no problem with that. Okay, I appreciate that.

would he actually need approval from us for that yeah well technically since our condition was they were not going to install anything to make it a driveway okay and this kind of puts some stabilization while it's not a kid it's not rock it could be considered like creating a driveway underneath grass so i it was just better to have the board address, understand it, and if they're okay with it, I can modify the resolution.

And if I can, Mr. Chairman, about the materials question, the language that Greg used in the resolution is straight from our ordinance at 4-9.11, accessory building size restrictions. It cites matching the siding and roofing material and color, as was listed. So I think they're still proposing clapboard, if I'm not wrong. It's just not vinyl. It'll still look the same. So the interpretation is is this a different material or is it the same as the main house, which we would always require. It is clapboard, though. It's just cement slash wood versus vinyl.

Does the board have any problems with those two changes? No, I don't have any problems. Okay, so then we need a motion and a second to adopt the resolution with The modification that permit the applicant to provide a grid no larger than a two-foot apron by the width of the door installed below the surface, as well as permitting the applicant to replace the vinyl siding with either wood siding or cementitious concrete siding, provided that the appearance and color are compatible with the residence to accommodate the health and safety of the goats. So we can make those two modifications. We have a motion and a second to immortalize. Second.

Mr. Chairman, are we confirming that it will still match the house otherwise?

Yes. And I'll modify the resolution and send it over.

Thank you. Mr. Arpaia? Yes. I'm sorry, who was the first and second? I was the first. I did. First and second. Thank you. Mr. Arpaia? Yes. Mr. Cadigan?

Yes.

Mr. Lambros?

Yes. Very good, thank you. Thank you.

No problem.

All right, back to David Wasenda. That was the pickleball court expansion in the unit 2C, use of variance approval, Z2603. Any issues on that resolution? None seen. Can I have a motion to approve in a second?

Mr. Arpaio? Yes. Mr. Bartimus?

Yes.

Mr. Cattigan?

Yes. That's it. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Last one is the JCP&L, Central Power and Light Company, that wanted the expansion application Z2504 and withdraw. So what are we actually approving here, Greg? We're not approving anything.

All right. So following the last hearing, we did receive a letter as identified in the resolution from the attorney for JCP&L that JCP&L has withdrawn their application. Obviously, the application was for the replacement change of numerous towers. So they're withdrawing for the application. So we need to just get it off our docket. We can't just accept the letter and move on. We just need to clean our files. So in our normal course, it's a resolution accepting their withdrawal. We're making no findings of fact, inclusions of record, files closed. Obviously, they could refile in the future. It's my understanding from talking to counsel and everything I've read, They lost funding, which is really the result of the solar farms. So they didn't have any more funding. Well, the funding got pulled from JCPOA for this project, so that's why it all went away. But at the end, it's still a good thing for Millstone that they went away. So that we don't have to worry about the hearings, the decision, potential appeals. So I see a motion and a second to moralize the acceptance of the withdrawal.

I just have one question. Sure. What does that do for us with cell towers? I know it's two separate entities.

So the cell tower application, We're not going to talk about it. I did reach out to their attorney. It was news to them. So they don't know what they're doing. Okay. One carrier is staying, because it's not coming down, but there's a new carrier. And the question is whether they wanted to go on, whether they could get on those towers or not. So if it was just the one carrier that was getting kicked off, it'd be a no issue, but there's a second tower, so they're dealing with that. I don't know if we have a date for them yet.

We're actually addressing that in a minute, so we'll talk about that in a second.

And Justin, if anyone here in the public thought there might have been something tonight with JCP and O. Obviously, it's not happening, so just in case that's why you're here, there will be no application for them. With that being said, if I can have a motion to approve this closing of this application. I'll make the motion.

And I'll second. Mr. Appiah? Yes. Mr. Barthmas?

Yes.

Mr. Cadigan? Yes. Mr. Lambros?

Yes.

All right, so that takes care of the resolutions, but I guess, Danielle, you want to talk first before we... Maybe we can jump to application one for two seconds because that's what Mr. Vallow was just speaking of.

Yeah, so they're still trying to work on what they're going to do. So they were carried for this hearing, so they've asked to be carried. Is anyone here for the cell tower application?

Diamond Towers.

Called Diamond Towers, next to, okay. They're asking to carry it to July 22nd, 2026 without further notice. I have no objection to it. Maybe it goes away, maybe it doesn't, or it comes in somewhat modified. So if the board is acceptable, we can adjourn this to July 22nd, 2026 without further notice, meaning if you receive certified mail on this application, you will not get a new one. This application will be heard on July 22nd, 2026. 7 p.m. at these chambers. Greg, is it an entire new application? I don't know. It may be the exact same application because they may take the position that A is going to get off the tower, but we need to build a tower for B, and they won't let B on the tower. So they have to build a cell tower. I don't know. Fair enough. It seems like a real lot of waste of money because it's very expensive to do that stuff. But we're getting carried out to July 22nd.

Okay, so that one's gone.

Yep.

All right, so jumping back to our first application, this was a submissions waiver request.

Yes, so this application, when Bridge Asset Management come up, If the Board recalls, they were here previously on appeal of the Zoning Orphanage Determination, Zoning Orphanage Determination, which was withdrawn. They are now proceeding with a site plan application as we do in a normal course. The applicant has requested some submission waivers, basically meaning that our checklist that they don't think are necessary for the board to make a fully informed decision. A lot of times we agree with that interpretation, but we do need them to come in and go over for sometimes we do need to see stuff where they don't want to give us the stuff or they were hoping they didn't have to give us the stuff. So council, please answer your appearance for the record.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. My name is Matthew Gilson from the law firm of Murphy Schiller Wilkes on behalf of bridge asset management. I have with me tonight, our engineer, Tom Trotto. I'll call him up to discuss the waivers.

Mr. Trotto, why don't you come on up. And Mr. Chair, we'll swear a minute first. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear a firm in the following testimony about to give us the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Yes, I do.

Please state your name and spell your last name, sir.

Thomas Trotto, T-R-O-T-T-O, 245 Main Street, Chester, New Jersey. Work for Dynamic Engineering Consultants.

Mr. Troyer, have you been in front of this board before?

I have not, but I've been throughout other...

If you could just quickly give us your credentials. Absolutely.

Yeah, I'm a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I received my Bachelor of Science Engineering degree there. Since then, I've worked for Dynamic Engineering for the last nine or so years. I'm now a principal at the firm. Testified in front of various boards throughout the state. Never here, but 20-plus boards. At least it is a good standing.

Very good. With that said, we'll accept Mr. Trotto's credentials for today's application.

Okay, Mr. Chairman, this is the application for a truck terminal where they'll require certain variances. How do you want to proceed with either, A, have the applicant's engineer go over each of the waiver, or have our engineer go over each of the waiver and let him advise us, like, he's good with that, he's good with that, he's not good with that, and discuss the not good with us?

Whichever one is more efficient. So I think the latter sounds more efficient.

I would think so, too.

Yeah, I reviewed this application. Generally, since everything is existing in the application, I went through all the waiver requests. And I don't know how you want me. I don't know if I want to go through every one of them. Why don't you go over the ones that you think you need more information. All right. Yeah, because most of them I'm going to recommend a waiver for, but the ones I do not recommend a waiver for on the checklist is items 4C, D, and E, which relates to landscaping. I recommend that we get a landscaping plan from the applicant across the front of the property because it's pretty bare. All right. The other one is, the only other ones that I would recommend is Matt had done a letter on May 1st, and item two of his letter recommended that there was five submission waivers that he didn't recommend be waived, and I would agree with him. It's just with respect to house cleaning things, digital copies of plans, tax certificate, disclosure statement, consent of entry, and a conflict and contribution disclosure statement.

Mr. Glash, I believe we've received most of them in the last week, so I'll double check that with you tomorrow.

Okay, so it kind of really comes down to the landscaping plants that they're not proposing any changes on the site. The only thing I'd recommend is we try to beautify the front of it a little bit with some landscaping. A little nicer, sure.

Does the applicant have any issues with work?

No, I think that's fine, and we'd be happy to update the plans prior to the next hearing. Hopefully it doesn't hold us up. I don't think plantings would be an issue. We're happy to work with the board and their professionals to add plantings where they see fit. Well, it's not just add plantings. You're applying to landscaping. Landscape plan, proposing plantings, correct. Yeah.

Does that include signage and all? How deep does it go into?

The landscaping would just really be a landscaping. Just landscaping. But, I mean, I also think that the plan should at least have, if you're doing a truck terminal, okay, that's what they're proposing, waiver number 18 is for sign identification signs, traffic control signs. You're bringing trucks in and out. I think the plan should have that if you're going to propose any. So we know ingress and egress and everything else.

Mr. Chairman, I'd also request a lighting plan. Again, with trucks, there could be some pretty intensive. I mean, I know we're on 33 here, but there could still be some intensive lighting requirements here.

Yeah, I had like five other comments that didn't relate to the checklist. Specifically, they're kind of brushed alongside of it. One of them also recommends to request some information of what the back building is used for. It seems to be tucked back in there. And another thing is the list of what all you're storing on the site. There seems to be construction equipment out there, more than just trailers. There seem to be trucks, bulldozers, and a back-out. And also, the problem with Kinley, there's the on-site lighting. It seems as though you have lighting on one side of the parking lot, the other side has none. So you have to provide a lighting plan to see if that's sufficient. And then I didn't know if there was any on-site employees. And if there were, where would they park and what building would they work in?

So those items, I'd submit a narrative of those items if you recall during, it's not really a submission waiver, but it's those questions we're going to eventually ask. So maybe a narrative of what's going on at the site because you recall during the appeal hearing, some of the comments was we have no idea what's going on in that building and there's people maybe living on the site. So hopefully since that hearing to now, owners have gotten a grasp of what's going on the property yes I spoke with my client today and he is finishing up negotiations with the prospective tenants so we hope that within the next week we'll be able to provide us many more specifics yeah we're gonna need a list of all that where you're proposing because McKinley's gonna have to review determine whether you need one or more variances depending on what uses you are proposing on it I would not sign a lease before you get an approval Tentatively, sir. That's fine, but I would not sign one before you get an approval from the board if you can. Yes. Okay? So if the board has no other comments, the board would grant the waivers, accept the applicant to provide a lighting plan, sign his plan, a landscaping plan, waivers. They'll provide that. Upon completion, they'll be able to appear before the board for a full application. And discussion of the back building and the storage. Yeah, that's more of them creating a narrative. It's not a checklist item. So that's more like, hey, we're going to ask you these questions, so you get ahead of the game. It's not a specific checklist item.

As long as they agree to all that, I think we're set to go.

So we need a motion and a second. Granting the waivers except for the ones landscaping, lighting, and signage.

All right. Anyone on the board for discussion before we make a motion?

And the items that Matt indicated in two, the five things, even though they may have provided some of them, I'm going to re-ask for them. Just in case you have them, you have them. Yes.

I'm okay with the request that was just made. Is anyone on the board? Any other questions, comments? All right. I have a motion to... move forward with these submission waivers and these lists of things they need to bring from next meeting. When would they be coming back?

Depends when we get the...

When they get stuff. So even though we're not going to adopt the resolution to July, doesn't mean you can't get stuff in ASAP. Got it. Motion to motion. Second?

I'll second.

All call.

Mr. Arpaia? Yes. Mr. Barthmas?

Yes.

Mr. Cadigan?

Thank you very much. Thank you very much, and we'll see you soon, hopefully. All right, before we move to the last applicant, if anyone in the public, there's a few seats here up front, a few over here on the side. If you want to sit down, if you want to sit in the back, please come forward. We don't bite. All right, let's move forward. This is the estate of Ray Holm, Frank Holm, and the Wickle Holm. Block 17, lot 1004, 25 Millstone Road. Block 23, lot 202. This is a preliminary major site plan and use variance application, Z23-10.

Okay, Mr. Chairman, this application has been around for a while, carried, applicant has re-noticed appropriately. So just so everyone's aware, This application requires a use variance, which requires a minimum of five affirmative votes of the seven board members. As you see constituted, we only have five here, and at least one of our board members who's brand new, all the way to my left. So he has to listen to the tapes. He's obviously able to participate. He can't vote. So we're not going to get to a vote tonight, just because we don't have enough people to vote. Even if they voted for zero in favor, Application would still get denied, so I know Mr. Pape would not ask us to vote under those circumstances. So, Mr. Pape, it's been a while, so I think a good refresher for the board and the public of maybe where you were at, quickly what changes you were, and then we could go over the changes based on the last meeting, which I have as... October of 28, maybe? January 25. January of 25? No.

Really?

January 25? So hold on, this was my, I never put the years in my notes. I only, like I have 1017, that's from 24?

Yes. It's on the top of the exhibit.

I know, I just...

They were here June of last year, but testimony wasn't given, so you have seen them more recently.

Even more of a reason to provide the board with where we're at.

Mr. Chairman, there was one other board member that Mr. Cadigan was not present for the first hearing, so he was only present for the second hearing.

So it may be the benefit...

And if I can make one point before you start, just so the public understands. When we're short board members, when you come back the following month or the following month after that, other board members can listen to these tapes, listen to our video recordings, get up to speed, and they're allowed to vote. uh, the following meetings, just so you understand that even though there's only be three of us tonight, we'll have more for the next meeting. Just there's clarity.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, board members, board professionals in public. Good evening. Kenneth Pape of the firm Heilbronn Pape on behalf of Frank Humm, Wiki Humm and the estate of Humm. This is an application for use variance relief and for site plan approval of two warehouse buildings. The property that's being presented to you is block 17, lot 10.01, and block 23, lot 2.02. There was a presentation in October of 2024. There was a follow-up presentation in January of 2025. There were considerable revisions that were made to the plan that were responsive to comments that came from the Board, the public, and the Board's professionals. And this evening, Peter Strong will present those revisions to you. There was also, from the public, There was a person who spoke about the ability of the township's fire department to fight fires. With permission, I've made certain that we had permission before, fire chief would like to speak about the firefighting capacity of our fire department here in town. I think that it's worth knowing just how strong our fire department is and what has been done by our fire chief and the fire department to make certain that we have that firefighting capacity. Somewhat out of order, but since the fire chief doesn't belong in a zoning board meeting, but in a firehouse, I'm going to ask that he be the first witness and give him that professional courtesy. And after Chief Maloney speaks, I'll ask that we go to Peter Strong, and it's at that point that we'll pretty much do the revisit of the site. We'll do the rebuild of the site and go into the changes. Steve Radosti is our architect. He had made a presentation. Similarly, there were some revision requests made, and he has a revised set of plans to present to you. He would be the third witness. The fourth witness is Scott Kennel. He is the traffic expert, and he would present traffic testimony. We have a total of seven witnesses. I spoke to your attorney beforehand. I don't think that, well, knowing that you had a short board, and thanking all of you for being here, We certainly are not going to be asking for a vote. I would prefer to stop after the fourth witness and turn over the remainder to the public, knowing the public has gathered so that they all have an opportunity to speak. When you reschedule us, we anticipate we can conclude with the last of the witnesses. There's an expert, there's an industrial broker who is going to provide testimony about the current marketplace. We have some operations testimony, and the most important is the final witness, and that is our professional planner, who can't testify until every other fact witness has. So if that's acceptable to the chair and the board, we would like to begin with Chief Michael Maloney, present three professional witnesses, and then turn the meeting back to the board to open it to the public and look for a continued date.

I would like to have the meeting wrap up around 10.30 tonight, latest. So if we have the public, say, 45 minutes to an hour, that gives you until 9.30. So do you think you can get all four witnesses in by 9.30, an hour and a half from now?

I think so. I think I can name that tune in. We certainly want to make certain that it's a thorough presentation. We'll agree that at 930 you'll tell me that it's 930 and it will be where we stop. So there is a time for the public. Okay.

Then why don't you call the fire chief up. Daniel, could you put up on the board A34 So at least the board can see the site plan while the fire chief testifies. So if he gets to... I have 834 as the rendering site display. 840? Yeah.

Greg, can I ask one request before we get started?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yes. When we had talked a little earlier, you had said warehousing in this site is a permitted use. Correct. But you're doing something a little different, which is why they're in front of us. Can we just talk about that for two minutes of why you're here? Sure. Again, I'm doing this for myself and for the public.

Yeah, so if I can, Mr. Pape. So this is a permitted use on the site, okay? The zoning board is... generally doesn't hear applications on commercial sites that are permitted. The zoning board has limited jurisdiction. We deal with the residential houses, okay, and certain other variances, what we call as de-variances. One is the one we see most typically is a use variance, okay, meaning I was proposing a use that's not permitted in the zone. Just like the last guy that was here about that trucking terminal. It's not permitted in the zone. So the planning board doesn't, it's not in our ordinance, so the planning board doesn't have jurisdiction. It goes before us. There are things called FAR, which is a floor area ratio when the size of the floors exceed our ordinance. That comes before us. Why they're here today is a height variance, okay? Since our ordinance makes it permitted use, they can't go to the planning board. However, the applicant proposing a height of 40 feet where 30 is permitted okay so it's 10 feet higher which is over 5% so right so if they were 36 feet they'd still be able to go to a planning board because it would be 33 32.9.

30 is the permitted.

Oh, that's right. I'm sorry.

This is a different part of the zone. I was thinking 20%.

If they did 5% or less, they would go in front of the planning board. But since they're over 5%, they come here for a height deviation. Okay, so that's the reason they're here. The other variances, building coverage, and there's some other variances, they all could have been heard before the planning board. But once the height variance is triggered, they come here and we deal with all of them.

Unless something has changed, there is also an FAR variance, a floor area ratio. Is that correct? Right. So there's actually two devariances. Yeah.

So the same floor area means we've put a limit on the amount of floor area on a piece of property. Okay. It's a percentage over the overall property. The larger the property, the percentage stays the same, but the bigger the floors can be. And the floors sometimes are multiple levels. Okay. In this case, there's just one floor. So if they're after a theoretically with double, if these were two-story buildings. Okay. So that's why they're before us.

Okay. And so we, this board, are not saying yes or no to... warehouses, we're just simply saying yes or no to these variances.

We're saying yes or no to a warehouse that's 40 feet where 30 is permitted, an FAR variance with these things, yes. Warehouses are permitted on the site, and you'll hear from the applicant's planner, you'll also hear from our planner regarding the different standards the board has to use to come to a conclusion whether to approve our grant.

Very good. And I ask those questions even though I know the answers to make sure the public understands where we are at and so there's no thoughts that we can do anything differently than what we just discussed.

Theoretically, the applicant could shorten their building, lower it, make it smaller, and go for the planning board. Correct. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Baker.

With your permission, Mr. Chair, I ask that Chief Michael Maloney be called. I ask that he be sworn and give him the opportunity to share with you all of his credentials as our fire chief.

Okay, sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear in front of the following testimony about to give us the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Please state your name with the record spelling your last name.

My name is Michael Maloney, M-A-L-O-N-E-Y, and I am your fire chief.

All right, Chief, do me a favor. You can just drop your hand. You can grab that mic if you want to. I'm going to have a seat.

Even better. We're skipping on the air conditioning tonight, so it'll get a little warm up there.

Qualifying a fire chief as an expert, I think he is our fire chief, but I'm going to ask if he would take a few minutes to just talk about what his professional background is and what his professional qualifications are. We have a most qualified individual running the fire department. I think it would be worth hearing about it. If you would, share your credentials.

Thank you. So I began my journey in the fire service as a volunteer at Millstone Township. For the last over 24 years, I've been employed as a full-time firefighter. I returned in full-time capacity to Millstone in 2005. In 2010, I was promoted to a shift lieutenant. I rose to the rank of captain in 2022, and I was promoted as the first full-time fire chief in January of 2025. I represent a growth within our fire department, a growth of our career staff, and really a change within our service delivery model. My credentials include a bachelor in fire service administration through Columbia Southern University. I'm a state certified fire officer level two, level three incident manager, certified New Jersey emergency manager. I also serve as your township's emergency management coordinator. I'm a state-certified fire investigator, hazardous materials technician, and fire official, just to name a few of my credentials.

Outside of Millstone Township, you also serve in other capacities, fire-related capacities. Could you share some of that background?

Yeah, I'm also employed on a part-time capacity with Monmouth County through the fire marshal's office. I serve as a level two fire instructor, a fire investigator, and a county fire coordinator to support large-scale fire incidents within this county.

that the reason that you offered to testify is that there had been, at the January 25 meeting, a question from the public about the Millstone Township Fire Department's ability to fight a fire. The question was not only about fighting fires in warehouses, but fighting fires in Millstone Township. And if you could take a little bit of time to share with us what the Millstone Township Fire Department has done to make itself a stronger fire department, employees, full-time employees, equipment, and also the relationships that you have created you and other firefighters have created with other fire departments in the vicinity? I think everyone benefits from that.

Yeah, so that's obviously a loaded question. So Millstone, like all the communities around us, began as a volunteer fire department. With our community being a unique makeup and going through its own housing boom in the 1990s, that showed a decline in volunteers, while on the same token an increase for the fire department services within the community. Starting in 1999, we hired our first two career firefighters, and through the mid-2000s, grew that rank to 10 firefighters in total, two being shift supervisors, staffing our firehouse seven days a week from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., of course, volunteer coverage, supporting the daytime hours, and then solely handling the nighttime hours. And that held our coverage demands for quite a few years. Things transitioned here in the late, you know, 2016-2017 era, where we began to see struggles with our nighttime coverage. And as a result of that, starting in 2018, we hired a total of 10 firefighters. We had dropped down to eight firefighters due to attrition in the early part of 2010, and then bringing the ranks back up. So we're currently at 19 employees, as I said. I represent a significant change within that organization, becoming the first chief. We are now staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We have a minimum staffing component that we retain at all times. This is supplemented on the daytime hours through part-time personnel and on the nighttime hours through our in-house volunteer duty crew. But we have a minimum of six personnel on duty 24 hours a day. Daytime can rise to as many as eight, with myself included in that equation for staffing. We've also been your EMS provider for the last five and a half years. What makes us unique, we're one of two fire-based EMS services in Monmouth County where the ambulance is staffed by firefighter EMTs. We are bringing more to the table than the average community because we're bringing cross-train personnel across the floor. So whether it's an accident that requires multiple ambulances and extrication, or structure fire, we're bringing that level of staffing to the table. What this department has done and it started really before my time in the fire service, was a reliance on automatic mutual aid. So there is a difference. Mutual aid is when I would get on radio and request services from another town to come support us for a particular incident. Automatic mutual aid is predetermined run assignments or run cards that are dispatched when we're dispatched. So meaning right now if there's a fire at this location, number of predetermined agencies are going to be dispatched with our department to bring an appropriate complement of firefighters apparatus and one of our biggest challenges in this town water to that particular incident that was something that like I said started well over 30 years ago it has been bolstered considerably in the last few years. I've bolstered it further since my tenure as chief and it's something that it's not unique to Millstone. We're running in this type of an atmosphere with all of the communities around us. The same towns that we rely on to come support us, if they had a fire right now, our personnel would be dispatched depending on the geographical location in their communities and that dictates what we respond with, what apparatus, et cetera. And that's how we're getting to those appropriate manpower levels to combat fire. So of course a concern with a large commercial building, how would we handle that? How many firefighters would we need? The reality is if we have a house fire right now in Millstone, four departments are being dispatched on that assignment that would include us. So we're getting to that optimal number for a residential fire of at least 20 personnel on the scene. A commercial building fire is a different animal and we're relying on a very inflated run card to support operations should we have a fire in one of the commercial buildings within our community. We're members of a number of organizations, both working groups and associations. We sit as part of the Monmouth County Fire Service working group where all the chiefs in the county collaborate and that's something that's really kind of taken off in the last two years here to get on the same sheets of music and adopt different standards and practices and communications aspects, but we also are members of what is some mutual aid associations, one being Western Monmouth, which represents all the fire departments in the western side of Monmouth County, and then another agency called Suburban Chiefs, where we have mutual aid agreements, and that's Western Monmouth, Eastern Mercer, and Southern Middlesex County. So it's just increasing that familiarity, that dependence on each other, and that support network. There is not a fire department in this Central Jersey area that can be self-sufficient and be able to operate on their own. I mean, in the last year, my firefighters operated at a fire within the city of Long Branch because of the nature of the building and the size of the fire. It's something I never thought that I would see in my fire service career, but that incident dictated the need for approximately 200 firefighters to be operating at, and there we were finding ourselves operating on the fourth floor of a building in Long Branch, not something that you would see on a particular day. So this is what has changed, and we have really been at a forefront with growing our staffing here, where a lot of towns have looked to us to see how have we done business, how have we increased the ranks, how have we collaborated with our partners. I'm very proud of what these guys have accomplished.

Chief, you had shared with me the number of fires. if there was a fire in a commercial building on the Route 33 corridor, the number of fire companies that would get that automatic message and would be sending coverage. Could you share who are these supports?

So right now, if I would have a fire at 505 Route 33, which is our million square foot warehouse, and when I say have a fire, somebody calls 911 and says 505 Route 33 is on fire. The following agencies would be dispatched immediately for that report. That would include Monroe Township Fire District 2, Monroe Township Fire District 3, Manalapan Township Fire Company No. 1, English Town Fire Department, Freehold Township Independent Fire Department, Freehold Borough. That covers the initial assignment. Additionally, a rapid intervention company, meaning a firefighter rescue company should something happen to one of the firefighters coming out of Mercer County. That's on the report. Once we would arrive or have supplemental information indicating that this building is in fact on fire, we could increase the assignment accordingly. We are purposely pushing a large amount of equipment and apparatus, which is not unique to Millstone. This is how we're doing business across the board. Looking at some of the fires that have occurred within our region with warehouses, et cetera, recognizing how these alarm assignments have grown, This is common practice and this is common sense to ensure that we're safe because our safety, the safety of my people is my absolute concern and priority. Our ability to serve the community and our ability to suppress and handle whatever incidents we may be dealt with.

I think the board members know this and I think that it's valuable for all in the public to know. Before we come before you, there is no application that we present to you that we don't first present to Chief Maloney and his staff. Every time we come before the Planning Board or the Zoning Board, we go to his office first and we ask him for his recommendations. I'm very pleased that he has told me that he's pleased that we always say yes to his list of requirements. On this instance, we did go to see the Chief and we We had indicated that there would be a water tower, and there would be a pump, and that there would be a generator, and that the buildings would be fully suppressed. We were asked to have a certain circulation for his fire trucks, and we were asked to have supplemental water supply on site. We were also asked to have a striping plan. I'm just gonna ask if you could, Chief, just if you could confirm that each and every one of the requests that you made to the applicant, the applicant has agreed to and they're on the plan. Absolutely. My question to you, and I don't mean it to be a loaded question, is there a comfort level that your fire department and the relationships that you have with the surrounding fire departments provides an adequate firefighting force for these industrial buildings that are proposed along the Route 33 corridor.

Absolutely, and that's why, you know, when you hear the rundown of units that are coming, that may seem like a lot to a lot of people, but there is a method to that madness. There is a method to provide adequate number of fire engines, adequate water tankers that deliver water to the scene, adequate aerial devices for things like rooftop access, and most importantly, manpower. A fire within a commercial building, even if it's suppressed, has its own unique challenges. It often relates to long hose stretches. It relates to limited visibility due to ventilation concerns. When a sprinkler system potentially activates in a building that has something like rack storage, you're faced with a scenario of what is referred to as cold smoke, meaning the smoke does not rise and lift. So it makes for visibility, it makes for challenges to locate the scene of a fire. And looking at some of the scenarios that have occurred just within our immediate area and some of the fires that my personnel have operated on, When these sprinkler systems activate in a scenario where there is rack storage, the fire may be contained to its particular area of origin, but it's not suppressed. So the companies have to go in, they have to make a hose stretch through a long distance, through a building around various obstacles. Again, limited visibility. They're locating the seat of that fire. They're having to suppress the fire, open up, and most importantly, ventilate the building to improve conditions. So that is a manpower-intensive operation, and that is why we're sending the right amount of people with, of course, the need to, you know, knowing tonight if we pull up at a warehouse fire, we're probably going to elevate that to the next alarm right out of the gate, the next alarm assignment. And, you know, for commonplace, a second alarm assignment to ensure we have the right amount of manpower coming to support us.

I have one last question, but I'm not asking that the questions stop after my last question. That is, in recent years, you've shared with me that you have, in addition to more firefighters, you've also added... equipment so that the fire department is better prepared to fight this type of a fire. If you could just speak to that a bit.

Yeah, so I obviously spoke about some of the challenges that the town went through here and in growing the fire department operations. And I shared with you how our community has grown. And let me be very clear. When I started as a career firefighter in this town in 2005, we were running 275 calls a year. You can do the simple math. That's not even one a day. My personnel answered 1,700 incidents last year. So the increase has increased. Our entire area around us has increased, and that puts a demand and a strain on the emergency services system. How we've combated that is by hiring personnel to meet the demands. And as I've said, this is something that we've looked at. We are able to hire personnel when money exists, when money comes in, when there is a windfall in ratables coming in on particular years, and obviously restricted, as you're well aware, to how much we can raise via taxation in any particular year. If there is no ratables within the taxable budget or a small amount of ratables, we're only able to increase our budget based off that 2%. of the tax base. So we've made very smart growth decisions to allow us to grow the fire department when the money has been made available. We've overhauled and replaced our apparatus to keep up with current standards. We just placed it in service last year, a 100-foot ladder truck, which replaced a piece of apparatus that was 23 years old. We retired our tractor-trailer tanker, which was well over 30 years old, replacing it with a brand-new tanker. and that process continues we're we're looking at replacing an engine now in the coming years but i'm sure if anybody has followed the supply chain demands and the national headlines about fire apparatus costs and time frame deliveries we basically are going to look this year to purchase an engine that we're not going to see for four years because this is the challenges that are that we're faced but that's neither here nor there that's the stuff that keeps me up at night so

There's a comfort level that the fire company in Millstone Township together with their outside relationships has adequate personnel and equipment and training to handle the type of fire if there were to ever be one?

Absolutely. And know that obviously being the chief of the department, I said it before, my biggest concern, the thing that worries me the most is the safety of my personnel. I would not stand in front of you here and tell you that I feel like we're doing an adequate job if I truly did not believe that. Born and raised within this department per se, having been in this community for well over 30 years, growing with this department, I care very much about the firefighters and about this community. So their safety remains my biggest concern. And by putting the right steps into place, I can guarantee that they're gonna be remaining as safe as possible when they're going out the door.

Mr. Chair, members of the board. I have no further questions of chief Michael Maloney. He is available to you for examination.

I have a question for chief. Yes. Were you involved in the, uh, two Lisa court fire about two years ago? I was that, I mean, when, when that happened, that was like two in the morning on a freezing night and there must've been at least eight to 10 view, you know, lined up the trucks lead, but you had a, you had one of those tall ladder,

type we did was that the 100 footer you're talking about that was from another town only because our particular ladder truck at that time was not in service we had just received it from the vendor so we used the ladder from another community which is standard on our run cars that's similar height or similar there was a hundred that was a hundred foot ladder that night as well so the house that i'm thinking of is two regular two-story it's actually a three-story house believe it or not yeah if you can have the attic no it's and that ladder that ladder was fairly much above it but

Now we're talking, I mean that house is pretty much the size of one of those little yellow squares, but now you're talking this gigantic thing 40 feet high. Do you have any comments on the ability of that ladder

So the biggest misconception with ladders and having to have justified our purchases in the past, it's not about the height of the building, it's about the reach of the ladder. So a two-story house with a roof that's 25 to 27 feet above ground, it's not that we need a ladder to go 100 feet straight in the air, it's our reach from the driveway, it's our reach from the street. The reality is that some of your developments and your own homes, we may never be able the position to get a ladder to that roof because of trees and vehicles and everything else. What is paramount and what we had tested with the million square foot warehouse at 505 Route 33 was our previous 75 foot ladder that was at its end of life could not reach the roof if there was tractor trailers in the bays. Whereas a 100 foot aerial ladder could reach the roof meaning when those trucks are detached And the trailers are left overnight. We just simply didn't have the reach to get the height there. And that was one of the things that I had conveyed here with Mr. Pape, you know, in the past year was ensuring we have those adequate fire lane markings. If you look at some of the other warehouse projects we have within the community, the trailers are dropped off. They're left for a time frame. So as long as they're not hitched to a... to a tractor cap, that 100-foot reach is not an issue. There is one particular ladder in the region that has a higher reach. It has a 130-foot reach, and that always remains as something that's an available asset that could be special called. But 100 foot is the norm, and that's what the communities around us are all running, and that's what we're running here.

So your testimony tonight, then, is with the markings and the way that the building's been laid out, that you do not see any hindrance or any reason that you could not attack a fire confidently?

Not at all. And looking at this building here, what we look for is egress, right? We're looking at egress in everything that we size up here. The larger of the two buildings gives us the possibility to have up to three-sided egress here. There is some narrow road traveling on the back of that building there in the lake. Same size. but looking at some of our egress at the top of the page to the right of that building in the lower corner that's three-sided access and we have solid access here off the base or off the top of the smaller building um and then not being able to comment accurately i can't see what the what the distance is from the road to the uh you know across the grass there etc but We're looking at that access always, and that's with every building that we're responding to. It's part, you know, it's ingrained in these guys' heads to make the right position, to size things up, where are they going to park, you know, or more importantly, where are they going to place the apparatus. That's what we aim for is place, not park.

If I could, the building, the million square foot building that Chief made reference to is, The one that is 50 feet tall. There's one warehouse in Millstone that is 50 feet tall. And that's the one that you're talking about fighting with a 100-foot ladder.

And believe me, when that building came in, we had our own concerns. And it's not even concerns. It's a change of how we're going to do business. So with the influx of the warehouses that we've seen come into the community, and really it's not even just here. We look at what is coming in around us knowing that we're going to be there. The reality that we could be operating in a hotel fire in a neighboring town is a truth where 20 years ago that was never a concern for us because the fire service was very different. So we train accordingly. We've trained our personnel. We've purchased appropriate uh standpipe kits to be able to stretch and operate off standpipes or to accommodate lengthly hose stretches through building we even brought in an outside training company to train our firefighters to how to handle operations within a warehouse and that's just you know simply staying current if we had a different challenge or a unique uh structure built in this community next year we would look at what we've got to do to change our operation and put the policies and the procedures and the training out there to to make the firefighters, you know, best prepared as possible.

Chief, you had directed that the buildings have FDCs and you had directed their location. You had also advised us that there were hydrants that were required. If you could just explain the FDC system to the board. and confirm that the FDC has requested and the hydrants have all been added to the plan?

Yes, so the FDC is the fire department connection. That's what supplements the sprinkler system. So meaning the sprinkler system activates, it activates a number of heads based off the size and the growth of the fire development there and it's operating off the building's water supply. Us coming in and tying into the FDC, the fire department connection, is our ability to bolster the pressure and sustain water supply to the particular sprinkler system there to attack that fire. Or as I said before, it seems like in a lot of these buildings and looking at the examples that have transpired within our backyards here, it's keeping the fire at bay. The personnel still are having to stretch hoses in the building. They're having to get to the seat of the fire. They're having to flow their hose lines and suppress it. It all is dependent on what is stored, how it's stored. the height of it the the difference the million square foot warehouse there's only a hundred thousand feet of rack storage within that building everything else is stored at floor level on pallets because of the nature of the occupant that occupies that building which you know when that was being built that was a big concern for us well that completely changed when the tenant occupied the building and what their their type of business is um you know that's that's their business and if you need me to speak about that i will but i

100% packed with solar panels. Every square inch of that building is solar panels.

So yes, so between the on-site hydrants, which we have a number of properties within the community, Wright Drive being one of them, for example, that most residents would be familiar with, our business district off Prattland Way, has what's called a yard hydrant system, meaning there are fire hydrants there to support Fire suppression operations, it's well supplied, it's supplied through a pond that's backed up by a fire pump house with a well to drive the fire protection for that. And then we have another couple sites that have on-site fire suppression capabilities. So if this building were to be a building that has that in place there, from our discussions, We would have on-site water to sustain fire operations. We would still most likely have to, you know, rely on our hauled water model, which if you describe Lisa Court, we did exactly that that night. We utilized the hauled water method where we're bringing water in with fire tankers. And then we also look at what available above ground or natural water sources there are. In this case, you have a large detention basin. There is a a fire pond on the existing property there that was the Colonial RV establishment that has a drafting point on that. We have the Millstone River that intersects with Route 33. So we have various options that should a building of that capacity go in and have a fire in it, we would have various ways that we would look at delivering that water to support fire suppressions, you know, operations at that incident.

And the primary supply for the fire department was to have the water tower and the pump system and the generator and that's part of, that's the primary water supply.

So Chief, in addition to the drafting points that you just discussed, Does the site have adequate drafting points or could it have more drafting points for safer operations for you and your staff? Even though the pond is on what I would say the south side of that larger building, is there a drafting system on the other side of the building that would allow you to tap in and draw water from that?

Yeah, so one of the things that we had asked in our phase here was to include a access road. And that was actually kind of spoke about before by the engineer talking about those fire access roads where it's a mountable type system where it has a grass coverage on it, but it's got a hard base to drive full size apparatus on there. And we had requested that as we've requested that with a number of projects in the past here. it's all going to depend steve on where the fire is in the building the particular use you know of that building where's the fire located how what is our needed fire flow meaning how much water do we need based off the the size of the building the percent of involvement etc so that would dictate where apparatus access and park and like i said we're we're also you know fortunate here that we have a a river system that is right at that intersection that would supplement our water We're bringing hauled water into this event with mutual aid tankers. And then we have an adjacent pond here on that previous location that we test every year as well. So we, you know, of course, having that access is paramount. And that was something that we spoke about was making sure that we had drive up. The biggest challenge with that is when the drafting points are too far from the water, you typically end up over time. You have breakdowns of the pipe and failures. We've gone through this with some of our subdivisions that have been built When the drafting locations are a considerable distance from the bodies of water, they just don't hold the course over time and they become more of a challenge. It's a considerable distance to vacuum that water through and pull that out to the fire apparatus. So it's not really a conducive thing that we're looking for.

Mr. Lambert, the Homs for many years have had diversion rights and they divert water from the millstone to their property for for farming irrigation purposes. And we've left that system in place, and that system is also tied to the standpipe. So in addition to the basin that's to the north of us that has drafting at Colonial RV and the basin that is proposed, we also have drafting from the Millstone River brought to the site. It's all there.

Any other questions for the chief?

Would you like to open it? Actually, Mr. Chair, why don't we open it to the public for any questions solely regarding the chief, and then when they're done, we could send them back to work.

All right, please, public comment, but please be concise and quick as we can. Keep this moving. Thank you.

Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear from the final testimony about to give us the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I don't know if I'm testifying. Well, it's easier because everyone just talks.

Hi, Dan Murphy, 38th County. I know Mike. He has a volunteer EMT.

He's an excellent EMT. I don't question his credentials. I watch him predict the guy.

I'm going to code 30 seconds later. We'll give him CPR. Excellent. But I do have some concerns.

And with the... Is this a... We're just doing questions for the chief right now. Yes, I do have questions for the chief.

With the increase of the warehouses, that creates increase of training and preparation... and equipment and even more warehouses is more manpower, correct?

Again, I spelled out for you how the manpower is being met. We're not hiring firefighters specifically to cover a specific building. We're hiring firefighters to meet the needs of the community and what the call volume is and to support the call volume accordingly here. So we have grown our department here over the last 20 years here to combat what is presented to us. But most importantly is that reliance on our community partners, our agencies around us for the same exact way that we rely on them, they rely on us. It's that give and take system that is what is strengthening us.

What was the budget five years ago?

Five years ago, I'd have to look, sir. I can't give you an accurate record off the top of my head. We're in the three and a half million dollar range. We're in about the four and a half million dollar range. However, however, we purchased, that's a loaded answer because we purchased vehicles off capital acquisitions of money. So that on paper, looks like a very increasing and influenced budget when it's not entirely true because it's not raised by taxation. The budget's the budget. The budget's the budget, yes.

And with more warehouses, you're going to need more equipment.

I'm not sure by equipment what you're referring to. Please be more specific.

I'm asking you, you're the expert. Yes. I'm asking you, what more equipment if we put two more warehouses, million square feet, you already have one down the road, what more equipment if we keep adding more warehouses and what is that going to do because you talked about the tax base and you're constricted by the tax base? Yeah. What's that going to do to the taxes?

I think that you just answered your own question. to further grow the operation there. If we're decreasing our tax base, that would be by not allowing any commercial buildings in or any ratables that go with that. So we're able to increase the tax base by commercial projects coming in, which exactly as I talked about before, when this large warehouse came into our community, It generated our budget in an upward trend that year of almost $300,000 of tax money that came in from commercial projects that were on the table. Now, in terms of what the impact was of those particular buildings, we're only responding to that particular address about a half a dozen times a year, a very low impact. Quite frankly, any individual road in this community that receives a good amount of traffic, is more of an impact to our daily operations. Are you a resident of the town? I am a resident of the town for the last 14 years.

Well, that's not really relevant. He's here as a fire chief. You asked him about the budget where he lives and what he pays as a personal tax. It's not relevant.

That wasn't the question. No, that's exactly what you said. We're probably paying more taxes now than we were three years ago because his response was this is increasing the tax base, like it's a benefit to the town in the tax base. But I know everybody here is paying more taxes now with that big warehouse.

Those are apples and oranges.

If he's bringing it up as it's increasing the tax base.

I gave you a specific example, sir, because you questioned me about how we rose to purchase equipment and grow the fire department. I questioned you about the budget. You did. And the real reason of why our fire department is the size that it is is because of our decrease in volunteers within this community. This community has changed. This whole region of New Jersey has changed and has become much more reliant on paid full-time personnel staffing there. their emergency services component as you mentioned yourself you were a volunteer EMT in this community until many years ago we no longer have a volunteer first aid squad we have volunteers that serve the community still through the fire department some being EMTs but their numbers have decreased year after year after year which has driven us to hire personnel and hence have an increased budget but this sounds like a board of fire commissioners meeting

I think we've got, if you have a question, the fire chiefs here say, which I've been, some that fire department can handle a fire at that site and they don't require any additional equipment to support that. That's what his testimony is.

On additional warehouses to the community, it may mean more manpower.

He should be answering that.

We're adding more warehouses. Do you know how many employees are going to be in the warehouse?

I don't. I don't know exactly who the tenant is. And again, that would be ill-advised of me to comment on that.

If it's 100 employees or 300 employees, then maybe increase the MS service costs.

Again, I can tell you based off the number of warehouses in this community, the numbers speak for themselves. Very low impact to our system. Very low impact for emergency medical response. Low impact for alarm system activations. We are not seeing a rapid increase in call volume from the commercial rateables that have come into this community in the last 5 to 10 years.

But if it was 100, 150 person warehouse, that could increase the call volume.

Let's take a step back. This is a permitted use in the zone. The fact that the town said warehouses can go here. The fact of how many employees that could go and work there is not relevant for this board. They're here not because they're proposing a warehouse in a zone that doesn't permit warehouses. They're here because they want to build it 10 feet taller than they're supposed to and larger than they're supposed to. It is a permitted use, though. How many employees there is not really relevant for us. We're talking about the height and the size of the structures that are being proposed.

He came in as an expert.

He came in as an expert.

It sounds like you're in support of this. No, I am. No, I do. You did this to me last time in answering questions for somebody that I was asking. I know the people here are concerned about the tax rateables. Aren't we concerned about response times? Should there be a fire there?

You can ask him about response times, but tax rateables are not an issue for this board. You asked him about the budget.

No, he brought it up when he spoke.

You asked him specifically about the budget.

We can go back to the minutes and we can check. Fine.

If you want to ask a question about the fire chief around his business.

I can't have you both speaking at the same time.

We're not doing that.

If you have any more questions about the fire chief. He brought it up. I didn't bring it up. I followed up on it.

Fine. Do you have any other questions for the fire chief?

What happens if there's multiple calls during a fight?

Does it slow down the response time? if there's multiple emergencies at the same time? Correct. Again, we are dependent on the partners and the communities around us. We could have a weather event come through town right now and delve us eight to ten incidents in a matter of a ten minute period of time. We prioritize what is the most serious event and we go down the list accordingly. We call in whatever assets and off-duty personnel and everything else to handle and combat We can only speculate so much, correct? I think you would agree with me on that. We deal with what is in front of us here. We deal with the nature of the incidents, the number of incidents, and respond accordingly. You're not here in support of the project, are you? I'm here to answer questions because there was false statements made regarding fire protection within this community, and I will not stand for inaccurate information being disseminated about an agency that I represent, period. Okay.

All right.

That's it. Thank you. Anyone else from the public want to ask the chief? Please come up. Mr. Pape, keep your eyes on it. It's quarter to nine already. Is it? Yes.

Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear from the final testimony about the gifts to hold you to nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name and the right to spell your last name, sir.

Izzy Tula, T-U-L-A, from 51 Elkland Road. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Tula, can you just speak a little louder? Sure. Sorry, I'm just having trouble.

Oh, sir.

Better.

Thank you. Okay, very good. So, the chief technician, the buyer from Izzy Tula. Izzy, what do you want? I-C-Z-Y-T-U-L-A.

They're going to tell you to speak slower.

Your address? The chief did mention a fire that occurred. Your address, please? 51 Millstone Road. Okay. Go ahead. The chief did mention a fire that occurred in Long Branch, and he mentioned there was 200 firefighters involved with that fire. The type of structure involved was, I think, a residential structure, four-story, maybe 40 feet tall. Wood frame building. Wood frame building, yes. Right. This type of building is a little bit different, and it has all types of goods and materials that are going to be stored in there, and they're always going to be transiting in and out. Assuming it's lithium batteries or some other product that becomes hazardous when it catches fire, are you prepared to put out the fire for this large facility?

So again, that's a loaded question, okay? So what is stored in the building obviously is subject to the approvals of the building. It's subject to review. the fire subcode official for the town, the construction department, and then in accordance with our department under its annual inspections. So believe me when I tell you that people don't always do things as they're supposed to as we find for our annual fire inspections. We do provide the annual fire inspections to the community, so we're in the buildings at the minimum of once a year, typically more than once a year because it requires follow-up inspections. So we are paying attention to what is coming in and coming out and making sure buildings are operating in permissible use of working with our partners in the construction department and fire subcovers back going through a problem with the building right now in the community so we of course DEAL WITH THAT. SO WHAT MAY BE STORED THERE, AGAIN, IS SUBJECT TO WHAT IS APPROVED. WHAT IS APPROVED THROUGH THEIR FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEMS TO BE ALLOWED TO STORE IN THERE. SO I CAN'T COMMENT ON SPECIFICS IF SOMETHING LIKE LITHIUM BATTERIES WOULD BE A PERMITTED STORAGE USE OR A PERMITTED DISTRIBUTION COMPONENT IN THAT BUILDING BECAUSE THE FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEMS WOULD HAVE TO BE ENGINEERED TO SUPPORT THAT TYPE OF CONTENT BEING WITHIN THE BUILDING. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE OR COVER WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME?

IT SOUNDS. IT SOUNDS. I MEAN, YOU MENTIONED ONE INSPECTION A YEAR. which doesn't really address the enforcement side of it. But then trucks going in and out every day, and there's product changing every day. So there is no enforcement of that product, what goes in and out. You're responding to a fire. How do you respond to a fire at that moment during an emergency type situation?

So again, how we respond to any fire here is we size up what is in front of us here. We size up where a fire is located in the building. What are we seeing in terms of smoke? Where is smoke coming from the building? Where is the fire protection system activated within the building? Is there workers on site giving us any report? mobilizations of what we're seeing conditions in front of us and Rising to that occasion and coming up with strategic plans for how to handle that So how would you treat the example that I mentioned to you like lithium batteries or some of the product that's hazardous? So so exactly that if we have lithium batteries on fire, of course we we know once again Is it a rack of lithium batteries? Is it a pallet of lithium batteries? Is it multiple racks of lithium batteries? I don't want to say that we can't get past the particular materials, but what is the percent of involvement? How much product is involved? Is it a pallet of lithium batteries on fire? Of course, personnel have to be on full personal protective equipment. They have to be wearing their air packs. We have to do things like air monitoring in the immediate vicinity. We may have concerns for decontamination of spraying down personnel that have been in that particular area to wash contaminants off their portion. Again, without speculating the question that you're asking me, a pallet of lithium batteries, a rack of lithium batteries, an entire warehouse of lithium batteries are very different scenarios.

My question is how you can prepare for that potential incident, right?

We're going to trade as we have.

I gave you an example of the four-story stick-built building in Long Branch. Yes. It took 200 firefighters to put it out.

Yes. Okay, how much manpower are you going to need for this building? Well, the scenario in Long Branch was very different than the scenario in Millstone. In the scenario in Long Branch, it was a wind-driven fire off the ocean, which we don't have that situation and scenario. The building was in a status of not completion of construction, meaning a number of open voids and hence a very wind-driven fire. That's a wood-framed building. This is a non-combustible building. building based off tilt slab cement with structural components, concrete is not going to burn. It will fail at a certain temperature if that fire protection system were to be overrun.

But the roof will burn and if there's wind, the wind will carry it into the neighboring properties.

Again, that's I don't have that concern that you're describing. We're talking about a suppressed building where a suppression system would keep that fire at bay. I gave you a number of examples of warehouse fires within this central New Jersey region and what the personnel have faced when they have arrived on scene. They've found fire in rack storage that was contained to the rack storage and not getting out of the rack storage but not fully suppressed and they stretched hose lines to the interior they flowed water on the fire, they opened up the affected area, and they completed suppression.

How much water do you need to put out a Luthien fire?

Again, sir, one battery, 10 batteries, hundred batteries a warehouse filled with batteries I guess I gave you an equation okay length times width times percent of involvement okay we're looking at what we call the need and fire flow here so the length of the building the height of the building the width of the building divide that by three based off the percent of involvement is the building 25% involved is the building a hundred you know, 100% involved, that will dictate how much water we need for that. And what are you prepared for? We're prepared for bringing in up to, to sustain a fire flow up to 3,000 to 4,000 gallons per minute.

And that addresses what type of fire?

That addresses a very significant fire. I could get up here on the whiteboard and start doing math equations for you if you need me to. Again, sir, I'm... I'm being asked a lot of what ifs, and without specifics, it's very difficult to address those questions.

I think your job here is to let us know what you're capable of, which I believe you've done, so I think we can move on.

And I think it's more about the structure that's proposed to be built is going to be built to stats for what the fire department has basically done.

whether it's built at 30 feet or 40 it doesn't matter there was a fire fighting expert who testified meaning there was a gentleman who was hired to design the firefighting system he actually was one of the people that met with the chief and other firefighters about a year and a half ago and he indicated he he went through the design of the tank and the design of the pump We have indicated that ultimately it would be subject to the fire department and the construction officials confirming that it was sized properly. We don't have any limitation on what the size of the tower is other than what we're told it's supposed to be.

Thank you. Anybody else from the public to talk directly to the chief? Fire only questions? All right, seeing none, we're going to move on to your next witness. Chief, you can leave. Chief, thank you so much. Thank you, Chief. I'm sorry, do you need a break?

No, I'm okay.

You're good? Sure. What, three minutes?

No, I'm okay. Actually, can I just change chairs?

Sure, sure. Do you need one of the ones back here? Do you want arms?

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Peter Strong of Crest Engineering is our design engineer. He is under oath. His credentials were placed on the record when he began his testimony at the earlier hearings. I will ask, is your license still in good standing as of this date? It is. Then I'll remind Mr. Strong that he is under oath and ask that he be allowed to continue his presentation.

No problem. Thank you.

Very fine. Peter, I think that it would be a good idea to take just a moment to identify the exhibits that you would like to rely upon, just so that Danielle can be ready to bring them up, and then

Let's go through your presentation. Well, I think you might want to look at a 23 and 24 in addition to a 40, which you already had up there. What would you like to do first? We can only do one at a time. What? What should we do? No problem. Let's start with 23, I guess.

Is this a... But knowing that there are new members and knowing that it's been some time, we'll try to do it in a reader's digest, but a thorough presentation. We'll rebuild where we left off. We'll get the basic testimony and then we'll go to the revisions to the plan. So Peter, most of the things that we're going to do is just repeat the property zone and the property size and the property's location. And then we'll go into the revisions.

Okay. The property is known as lots 10.01 in block 17 and lots 2.02 in block 23. It's situated along the both sides of Millstone Road. It's in the PCD zone and the property begins approximately 500 feet south of Route 33 along the Millstone Road right away. Lot 1001 is the main parcel which is as you see from the exhibit. is mostly on the west side of Millstone Road, and that consists of 77.96 acres. To the right or the east of Millstone Road is a smaller parcel, lot 2.02, which is 7.33 acres, but that's not actually involved in any, no development is planned for that particular parcel at this point in time.

The Haam family has left that piece of property as part of the application, as part of their commitment to place the entire parcel in a conservation easement. You may be aware that all of the lands to the east, that large wooded area, 100 acres plus, was by the planning board's direction placed in a conservation easement. So all the way down to just about Liberty Mutual's insurance building is in a conservation easement and the Homs are offering that piece of property that they own to also go into a conservation easement. Could we just generally talk about environmental constraints?

Sure. The site has wetlands and wetlands buffers that have been, wetlands have been flagged and identified and approved by the DEP back in 2024 with a 50-foot buffer. Can we go to exhibit? Back to the one that we had. That was what, 40? Yeah, A40. Thank you. I may need to grab that and go up to the map there.

Ask Daniel how to turn it on.

The plan that we're about to see is the most recent revision to the site that reflects a reduction in the building size and orientation from what was originally planned and was subject to the hearings in October 24 and January of 25. Okay, so this is the current proposed SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. THERE WE GO. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'VE GOT WETLANDS THAT RUN THROUGH THE SITE IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AND THEN APPROVED US TO THE LOCATION BASED ON THE DEP. AND THERE ARE 50-FOOT BUFFERS AROUND THOSE WETLANDS THAT GO ALONG WITH THOSE. pretty much avoided all of those with minor exceptions so that the area that's shown as wetlands will not be disturbed for the most part. Stream corridors and flood hazards, the Millstone River is a little unique. there is a floodplain that's associated with that and there is DRCC has some jurisdiction in that particular area buffers that are required to the stream corridor based on the DEP and the DRCC that we have respected in this design. So we're taking that into account.

A pointer, if you want it, Mr. Cannon.

Okay, great.

Thanks. I think if we could, just a 90 seconds summary of what the applicant is proposing, the two buildings, and then let's go into some detail of the revisions that were made being intended to be responsive to comments from the board, the board's professionals, and the public. Sure.

So the current proposal is two buildings. Building A is... 216,000 square feet on the northern side of the property. Building B is 135,000 square feet, which is to the south of building A. And the building B, at its closest point, is 555 feet from the southerly property line. And it is 720 feet from the nearest dwelling offsite to the south. The site has one entrance coming into Millstone Road, approximately 800 feet from Route 33. And it's come along in service. northern side of the building where there are loading docks as well as there's to the east of the 216,000 square foot building there is parking and then there's another small parking area that is north of the 135,000 square foot building and the access to the loading docks for the smaller building which is also on the north side of that building itself, in between the two buildings themselves. And there's turnaround opportunities that have been created to allow traffic to circulate properly in and out and access both the car parking and the truck parking areas. There are 40 loading docks that are associated with the the bigger building, and 17 associated with the smaller building. Stormwater-wise, we have creating a pond, a water pond that would provide firefighting water, as you know, and also provide stormwater attenuation and would be used for fire sprinklers for the landscaping on the site. We also have four infiltration basins into which the stormwater from the building and pavement areas would be directed to discharge into the groundwater and then ultimately there would be a discharge out of the pond system that would go into the wetlands. That's the basics.

The changes and still a little bit of thunder You've got buildings turned in a new direction. You've got all of the loading docks pointed north into the highway. And it looks to me that you moved a distance away from the residents. And you've added a very specific landscape design along the roadway. If you could take us through those elements, and then we'll go through some of the more nuanced versions.

Yeah, originally the site had two larger buildings on the site, which were the loading docks from the northern building was flipped and oriented to the south side of the building. The other building which was proposed was kind of a north-south orientation, parallel to Millstone Road, and the floating docks were on the west side of the building in that particular location. So there was some big changes that occurred to reduce the size of the buildings themselves, truck loading areas and the activity areas to the north instead of to the south where they were previously exposed to open space across the farmland. And the area along the Millstone Road itself, we have provided for a number of berms and walls and landscaping that would be The berms and walls would be six to ten feet high overall, and then there would be landscaping essentially on top of those that would be of various types of plants that would help to screen the buildings themselves from the roadway site.

My recollection, and I think this was refreshed by reading the transcript, my recollection was that the landscaping along Millstone Road, we're asked that it be, that it become a feature, that it be attractive, that it includes some lawn areas with landscaping and then be embellished with berms and more landscaping so that from the roadway there would be an attractive landscape and then the berm that would provide the screening. If you could just a little more detail as to those elements.

Yeah, that is true. That was one of the comments that some of the board members made at the initial meeting when we were talking about the initial layout. We had at first specified that there would be natural plants and different types of plants landscaping that would be grasses and things of that nature that would not be the area that is now shown as the lighter green would be the lawn areas those would be we're going to be less Attractive, let's say, less manicured. Naturalized. Yes, naturalized. That was the intent at that point in time, but we have changed that so that the area is going to be manicured and landscaped lawn area along the Millstone Road frontage especially. and then there would be the landscaping on the walls that I described previously that would go along with that to create a scenic landscape along the roadway frontage.

Touch a little bit on the stormwater system. I know that if one were to look at the plan very carefully, the word dam shows up with regard to one of the stormwater basins, and I think that the use of the word dam is really a term of art. If you could just describe... the dam's four feet or so tall, and why there is a structure called the dam, and where it would be located on the property.

Well, as you say, what's called a dam in the DEP or stormwater regulations is not exactly what you... It's not like the Hoover Dam like you think of out in Nevada. It's just a... classification of a berm and or a wall that would hold back stormwater and it is not in any way something like you think of as a as a dam it's just the classification that the DEP has required us to use and we have them in one or two locations in this place, but as you say, they're generally less than four feet high and they are not something that you should be worried about.

If you could take a few minutes to talk about the lighting. There were some questions the last time about the lighting. I think it's important to talk about height of fixtures, type of fixtures that you spec'd on here. and also the fact that the lighting can have timing controls.

Yeah, the lighting would be LED lighting. That would be a maximum of 40 feet high to match the ordinance requirements. And the lighting would be contained on the north side of both buildings so that it would be shielded by the buildings themselves off-site areas except to the north and the LED lights are able to be turned on and off and percentage of lighting could be reduced for like off hours of the operation of the building so that it wouldn't be a light a bright light all the time on the building in the homicide.

Do you have that information first by someone else about the timing of the lights? Do you have that? Is that going to come later? It's going to be part of operations, yes.

Okay. And at this point I can indicate the timing of the lights would be something that we'd be looking for guidance from you as well as from the state police as we have in the past. Motion detection for these lights isn't the right answer every time a deer comes by. So it's working on intensity. If you could, you pointed out that the firefighting system does include the basins. And I pointed out that we have the interconnection from across the street into the Millstone River. But if you could identify the location of where the tower that Daniel Lampe had talked about at the last meeting, where the tower is and where the pump is.

Yes, yes, a very important piece of information. firefighting system would be located in between the two buildings in the island here. It's got a 32-foot diameter tank, 20 feet tall, and then a building associated with it that I believe is 26 by 12, and that would contain the pumping system and the controls. So the height of the tower tank is less than the building, whether it's 30 or 40 feet, it doesn't matter, it's less than the height of the building, so it will not be visible pretty much anywhere off site except for a possible glimpse as you drive along Millstone Road, but it's a pretty innocuous system.

If you could identify the signage that's proposed, I believe that The building signage would be Mr. Radosti's responsibility, but if you could identify the site identification signage, where it's located, just confirm that it would be designed to be 100% compliant with the ordinance.

Yeah, well, again, the design was by Steve Radosti, but it's located up in the front here by the entrance drive.

Important piece of information. Just one sign. A single monument sign to be compliant with the ordinance. Location and size. Peter, a little bit later in testimony, there'll be discussion about the buildings that are along the Route 33 corridor. And the largest building that is our neighbor is Colonial RV. And Mr. Rodosti designed that building. He can talk about the height of that building. But I know that you designed the site. Can you share with the board the first floor elevation of that building, the Colonial RV building?

The Colonial RV building, there's two parts to it. There's the showroom area, I'll call it. part closer to the Route 33, right away has an elevation of 136.5, and the area behind is the shop service area building, and that has an elevation of 136. In our site, the bigger building, the northern building is 136.5. 7.25, and the southern building is 136.5. Thank you.

I have nothing further of Mr. Strong this evening. Can we talk about the access on Route 30? Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you so much. I forgot that too. Earlier in working with Mr. Shafai, he gave you specific instructions about road widening, where the road widening should be, to what dimensions, and the controls that would be appropriate from our driveway onto Millstone Road. If you could begin with the improvements that are shown to Millstone Road, and then talk about the controls at the driveway.

Yeah, the Millstone Road itself, there's discussions, as you said, with Mr. Shafai at the time, He wanted to have the roadway widened to 30 feet wide up until it got past the entranceway into the site. Half width? Just past it, yeah. Wait, half width, Peter? The 30 foot? Well, the whole width would be 30 feet, yeah.

What's it now?

Now it's 22-ish. So he wants it widened all the way down from another 33 intersection down to pass the entrance into the site. And the remaining portion would be set at 24 feet wide all the way to the southern end of the site. So there are certain places where we would have to add some pavement along the area from the driveway to the southern end, but not a whole lot. It's about 22 feet, so two more feet or so in various places. The pavement kind of wiggles back and forth, so we'll have to straighten that out in a minute. And then the entranceway itself is designed to take traffic in, cars and trucks, into the site. The exit, though, is set up so that Trucks would have to, are encouraged to make a left-hand turn and go back out to Millstone Road. It would be signed for that purpose. I would say all trucks must turn left. And then there's a small slip lane that would allow cars to go right and go out, but it's too small and the radiuses are too short to allow tractor-trailers to make a full right-hand turn without running over the island.

Peter, two things. That was the recommendation that was given to you by Mr. Shafai as to the controls at the driveway? Yes. And Peter's office sits right at the entrance of Modo Industrial Park. And at Modo Industrial Park, some 30 years ago, Peter and I were involved in that project with a similar requirement of having no truck traffic making right-hand turns. And that's been in existence now for about 30 years. Peter, if you could just share anecdotally, you look out the window, you've been looking at that intersection. So is that signage, is it effective?

It is. Yeah, our office occupies the building on the corner of Cradlin Way and Wright Drive, and we've been there since 2004, so 22 years, and I can honestly say that I have never seen a truck make a right-hand turn out of that driveway. They all go to the left, as they're signed for. I can't guarantee that that's the case, but I've never seen it happen.

Perhaps that is because they all are good citizens and follow the sign, or perhaps it's because it makes sense to make a left to get up to the highway. It does make sense to go up to the highway, yes.

And this is closer to the highway than a right drive is.

So before I say no more questions, do you think we covered everything? I think so. I think so. I have nothing further, Mr. Strong, on direct.

I just have one question, Mr. Payne. With the landscaping part, and I think this will probably be more for your operations to talk about, but who's maintaining that part of it all?

The property owner.

The property owner.

Yeah, but all, same as every, there's nothing on here that is intended to be a public responsibility.

Well, I didn't mean it by public, I mean it, the making it beautiful. by the sketch of it all? Is it, you know, that turning into fruition? What is the control on that?

A lot of control. Most of it goes, ultimately anything that this board decides goes into the resolution. The resolution goes into the developer's agreement and the developer's agreement gets recorded against the property.

If an application like this gets approved, they're responsible to maintain their property. part of the approval as part of the development part of their site plan and you know even though they do get bonding you know you I know you're talking past two years you're talking five ten years it is still their responsibility did you say you're straightening the road as you come down towards as you go south you want to straighten it is that what you said is that what you testified because it winds around like that I don't really quite see that yeah

We're not really planning to straighten it. We're just planning to make sure that it's got sufficient width to... But if the trucks aren't going that way, what does it matter?

Why'd you tell us to do it, Matt?

I guess he identified that there was potentially some problems with, like you say, the wiggling back and forth a little bit, and maybe narrowing up the roadway in certain areas, and he felt that if it was a little bit wider, if you made a 24 foot wide width on the entire pavement, that'll give you two 12 foot lanes, which is a good

Greg, do you agree with all that? Traffic. Yeah, I would concur to the north of it from that driveway for the truck traffic. You definitely want a 30-foot wide road.

For sure, but on the south?

From the south, it's probably just Matt requested it to be widened. I don't know what the traffic flow is, but it's probably based on the number of vehicles coming by just generally working at the site. We don't know what that number is yet. I haven't heard from the traffic guy or the operations people, but it's probably just general use of that road. You want it a little wider for a 12-foot lane instead of an 11-foot lane. It just makes it a little safer. I think he said the road's 22 feet now, and Matt requested 24 feet.

I have no questions, Mr. Strong. People on the board, any direct questions for Mr. Strong?

Yeah, just part of your testimony early on was the conservation easement, and there was a map that showed that. Can we put that map back up? And Mr. Pape, did you say that the homes, that the property adjacent to this property, this subject property, to the west. Is that going into conservation easement, that whole property, or did I misunderstand what was said?

If we could have, Mr. Lambros, all of the property to the east. First eight acres are the homes and they say put my eight acres into conservation. The next hundred, and I'm saying a hundred, I think it's a little more than a hundred acres, was put into conservation when the active acquisition application came before the planning board, when that 130,000 square foot warehouse was created. So that whole thing is in conservation. As you go to the west, we don't own that. That's the farm that has the water table that's right at the surface.

So, Mr. Strong? Yes. Danielle, don't worry about it. You don't have to find that map. I'm sorry. I misunderstood what was said. You testified that the Colonial RV building was at an elevation of approximately 135 right here?

136.5 is the showroom and 136.0 is the shop.

And the proposed warehouse is something similar like 136? 137.25 and 136.50, yeah. Does that mean that Colonial Army's building is 40 feet tall? Or are they sitting up on land?

This is just the elevation of the first floor.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. Steve will tell you about that. The reason why they appear to be similar on paper is really not true because one of them is sitting up on an elevated property and this one will be on a lower elevation at the grade. Correct. There's sequential testing. What's the difference at the grade? Do you know that? I know. The grade at Colonial RV versus the grade at this site. Steve will have to tell you that.

Okay. Steve Radosti, the architect.

There's another piece of wetlands just so that it's clear. The wooded portion of the farm, the triangle that's at the bottom of their property, that will be put into a conservation easement, that entire parcel. So there's wetlands conservation easement, wetlands conservation easement, somebody else owns, but all wetlands too. Maybe you're good at your time to introduce the farm opportunity. Okay. A44. One of the questions that came up at the last meeting was, what are you going to do with the large piece of property that you don't plan on doing anything with? And we had indicated that we would let it naturalize, that we would put some plantings in and then let it naturalize. But the Homs have advised me that they have another offer to the town if there's an interest at the zoning board level and the governing body level. And that is they've spent generations farming that property and preening that property so that it functions as a farm and it functions well as a farm. The entire area that is shown as green space, could be dedicated to the township by easement or in fee. So that essentially would be a farmland preservation at no cost or expense to the municipality. If they don't have a need for it, we would let it naturalize unless there was an interest in preserving it as a farm. And if there was that interest, it's on the table. The Homs have no problem offering it to the town by easement or fee.

And it's predominantly wetlands or transition area, right?

Some of its wetlands transition. It's fully farmed. The tile fields are in place. It's farmed for generations by the humps.

Yeah, the area that's from here to the north, and outlined in the red, is an area that has been farmed. Active farmland, sure. It's an active farmland.

Just as a reminder to the board, I mean, the active farmland is unique to the site, but any wetlands transition area is required to be in a conservation easement. Anyways, they're offering something slightly different, but whether you approve this or something else happens here, that land would be in a conservation easement.

If they did take it by fee, you're dealing with a subdivision application and the numbers skyrocket.

Right. It would only be offered to the town if the town found it beneficial. The Homs ask that I make it available to the town. When you put your life into making it into farmland, watching it re-vegetate isn't what you want. So either way is a failure.

Other questions from board members? Mr. Strong.

Mr. Chairman, can I just ask one, just to jog my memory, because it's been a while. Did the original application have trailer parking for trucks, and then that was removed as part of the January 2025 submission?

Yes, there was trailer parking that went along with the loading docks for each of the two larger buildings that we had on the site originally. And all of the trailer parking has been eliminated and loading docks have been moved to the north side.

I couldn't remember if that had actually come to the board or not. Okay, that's great. Thank you.

So there's two lighter yellow. That's just where the trailers would park against those strip areas for the two buildings.

So would there be trailers there at night parked there? There could be.

That's the only place I'm saying they could be is those two yellow strips.

Yeah.

Correct? That's correct.

I think I heard at the graveyard of

It depends on how the operations go during the day, if they got the truck unloaded or reloaded and took it away or not.

Mr. Pave, I was talking to Greg. We think your next is the architect, Steve, correct? We think it might be more important to get him in now so that the public can hear all that important information before they come to speak, unless you would like to hear from the public first.

How long do you think the architect will testify? Because obviously his testimony is critical in the sense of all your major variances due to his design, height, building coverage, all that stuff is the building that he's designed. And I think the public's 90% of questions have... Why is it so big, causing all these variances?

So the facts of the design will come from Mr. Adasti, its footprint, its height. That comes from Mr. Adasti. The appearance comes from Mr. Adasti. The justification.

We understand that.

Just want to make certain, because that's other witnesses.

Yeah, so I think it's better to hear from him to understand why

He's not going to give you the why, Chairman. He won't give you the why. He'll just give you the facts of the design. He's going to give us the why.

Well, there is going to be a why because he's the one who designed it. The question is, why did you design it so high? Why did you design it so big? There has to be an answer. And if his answer is, my client wants all that, okay. I mean, that's not a land use answer. I know your plan is going to testify, but if his testimony is simply, my client wants it this... Okay, but I think we need to hear as to why he designed it that way.

The why question I can tell you is that the harms And you'll hear other experts later talk about why warehouse buildings need to be at a height of approximately 40 feet. That's guidance that was given to the Homs, and then the Homs gave that direction to their architect. Their architect designed the building based on the criteria that came from the industry. That's the short of it.

The warehouses across 33 that are kind of behind the extreme, how high are those?

Sure. I mean, we actually, I mean, so this is, I don't testify, this will be testified to, but what we did is we got the height of every single warehouse building that is in Millstone. So the tallest building is the one that is on Showplace Farms, that's 50 feet tall. The building across the street that is from us, the Skinnell building, that building is 38 feet tall. There's another one that's next to it that's 37 and a half feet tall. The one that is behind the Amazon building, that one's in Monroe, that's 40 feet tall.

That's 40 feet. That's 40 feet, yeah.

That's Monroe.

I understand. And our ordinance, sorry, is 30?

Our ordinance is 30. All of the warehouses on Wren Drive, there are three, they're all 40 feet. There are two on Burn Tavern, one built and one that is approved to be built. They're both 40 feet. The warehouses that are in the BP Industrial Park, They're not all warehouses in there. Some of them are flex buildings and some of them are mechanics buildings, but the warehouses are all at the 40-foot range. There are only three buildings that were approved at 30 feet in Millstone, and those are the three that have been on the market since 2022 with no absorption.

Mr. Chairman, if I could... Yeah, I was just going to say, can our professionals tell us... where we got 30 from?

So I know we're jumping ahead a little bit, but the 30 feet is specific in the PCD zone to properties that do not front on Route 33. So the Skinnell site, a couple of the other ones he mentioned on 33, they're permitted to go to 35 feet. So they did get variances for 37 feet, but it did not trigger them to come here because it was not a de-variance, because they're permitted to go slightly higher. Same zone, but different set of standards. The BP zone has a different set of standards that at the time that some of those were approved was also 30 feet. That zone has since been reduced in height to 30 feet. It was 40. It was 40. I'm sorry. Thank you. It has been reduced to 30 feet.

When was it reduced?

The ordinance was adopted in the spring of 22. Thank you. The years go by strangely.

It was 40 before that.

In the BP zone, which is not where we are. Correct.

Correct.

We're not in the BP zone.

We're in the PCD. So this zone has not, the zoning for this lot has not changed. But this was, I didn't, this ordinance has been in place for 25 years, so I can't speak to the reasoning behind it, but they did intentionally make PCD lots that do not front on 33 a height of 30 feet.

Thank you. All right.

Let's move on to the architect then. The architect's testimony is going to be design elements.

The why's come much later. And for the public, the reason I'm doing this is I think it's worthwhile to hear all this before you come up and maybe ask questions that we'll eventually get to. I'd rather see the information first so that you have everything you need to hear before you ask or answer or make any comments.

Hey, Mr. Rodosti, please raise your right hand. You swear in front of the fine testimony about the Gibbs to hold you to nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name with the record spelling your last name. Stephen Rodosti, R-A-D-O-S-T-I.

Mr. Rodosti testified at the last hearing. His credentials were placed on the record. I'll ask Mr. Rodosti if his architectural license is still in good standing.

Yes, it is.

And I'll remind you that you're under oath. Thank you. YOU WERE QUALIFIED TO TESTIFY AS AN EXPERT IN THE AREA OF ARCHITECTURE. IF YOU COULD LET DANIELLE KNOW THE EXHIBITS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE AVAILABLE TO YOU AND WHERE WE WOULD BEGIN.

SO AT THE LAST MEETING I PRESENTED THE TWO WAREHOUSE BUILDINGS. I'd like to give a quick summary of the building since I've been here since it's been a year. Building A is 300 feet deep by 720 feet long for a total square footage of 216,000 square feet. Building B is 300 feet deep by 450 feet long for a total square footage of 135,000 square feet. Each building has a total of up to 3,000 square feet of office space. The office spaces are located in a prominent corner of each building. The remaining portions of the building would be warehouses. These buildings would be constructed of concrete and steel. They'd be non-combustible construction and would be fully fire sprinklered and have a standpipe system to the fire officials' satisfaction. Building A has 39 loading dock doors and two drive-up garage doors, while building B has 16 loading dock doors and two drive-up garage doors. The trash compactors will be located inside one of the garage bays at each building. However, the compressors that serve the compactors will be located inside the building. This will minimize any compactor noise at the exterior of the building. And all recyclable materials will also be inside the warehouse building. We spent a significant amount of time designing the aesthetics of the buildings. These buildings will be constructed of tilt-up or precast concrete sandwich panels. We have five different earth tone colors, using earth tone colors to go along with the ordinance. We provided a darker colored water table at the base of the walls in order to aesthetically anchor the building to the earth. And we also provided a series of vertical and horizontal colored bands in order to break up the massing of the building. Do you have any pictures of that?

Images? Daniel, can we get the elevation?

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE, THE ELEVATIONS WOULD BE SHEET SKA2. IT'S IN A DIFFERENT DOCUMENT THAN THIS ONE. THIS ONE WAS SUBMITTED LATER. I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THE FIVID NUMBER.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A32. THE FLOOR PLAN AND ELEVATION IS A32.

If you scroll down, there we go. Yes, so that one's Building A, but Building A is very similar. Building A and B have matching looks. So we used the five different earth tone colors to go along with the township ordinance, and we tried to break up the elevations with horizontal lines, vertical lines, and decorative features to make the buildings interesting, and we used colors that would blend more into the landscaping. There would be total signs, there would be two building mounted signs, one at each building, and each building would also have street address numerals, and there would be one monument sign. So at the corner of each of the buildings where the office is, we have added an address numeral sign. These are non-internally illuminated 30-inch high metal channel numbers. In order to draw attention to the entrance, And so the street numerals will be helpful for emergency vehicles. At the facade near the main entrance of the offices, there will be one 3 foot by 10 foot, 30 square foot, internally illuminated backlit aluminum channel letter sign. There will be one sign in each building, so two total for 30 square feet each for a total of 60 square feet for the two buildings. There will also be one proposed monument sign for the property. And this would be designed to match the materials of the buildings with several colors of earth tone colored concrete that matches the buildings. The entire sign structure is 7 foot 6 high by 13 foot 6 long. And the signage itself will be internally illuminated and on a total of 34 square foot per side. At the top of the sign, there will be a 12 inch high non-illuminated metal address numeral. Then if I could bring up exhibit A39. It's the one we just had up. So this is a new exhibit since the last time I was here, except this was submitted prior to this meeting. This is sheet CS1, conceptual building section, dated 6-24-25. It was actually submitted a year ago. So this new exhibit is a conceptual section through building A in the short direction. And then this section through building B will be very similar. The highest point of the roof is in the center of the building and it will pitch downward towards the two longest outside walls at a quarter inch per foot slope. The roofing will be a continuous membrane. such as an EPDM or TPO. These are types of membrane roofing in a light color to be a cool, to be considered a cool roof. This would be installed on approximately six inches of rigid insulation on top of metal decking, on top of open web steel roof joists. These joists are anywhere between 2 to 2 1⁄2 feet in depth. This means that a 40-foot tall building, there would be about 36 foot 3 inches clear height in the very center of the building. And because of the roof pitch, there would be about 3 feet less clear height along the outside walls, which would make it about 33 foot and 3 inches clear at the edges of the building. The pallet sizes and the racking varies for the actual product stored. However, the typical pallets are approximately four foot on center, horizontally and vertically, with aisles between the racks large enough for forklifts to pass each other, usually about 11 feet or so. So the building height, the 40 foot building height is measured from one foot above the pre-development grade to the roof peak. The pre-development grade, plus one foot is about ten and a half inches below the finished floor of building A and B. The highest point of the roof is located in the center of the building and slopes down towards the outside walls. The outside walls are made of concrete sandwich panels. So these would be solid concrete walls about ten inches thick, but they would also have two to three inches of insulation sandwiched between the concrete panels. And then the roof would be framed with steel open web joists and there would be steel columns and beams. And then these concrete walls would either tilt up construction where they're built on site, or they'll be constructed of prefabricated concrete panels made in a factory and then shipped to the site. Either way, the look and the construction would be basically the same. And the continuous foam core makes the panels more energy efficient than concrete block walls. And the concrete on the interior and exterior sides of the wall are physically strong, protecting the insulation, giving the final product a nice look to be painted with the five different colors on the exterior. It also has a pretty good fire rating. Typically it's about a three hour fire rating for the exterior walls, which is pretty much as high as you can get. The building will be designed to meet S1 construction classification as far as the building code is concerned. That's the International Building Code 2021 is the current edition. So since the building is constructed from concrete and be designed to meet an S1 moderate hazard storage building. This means the building can store combustible S1 and non-combustible S2 goods and no hazardous materials will be stored. One is combustible materials, the other is non-combustible materials. Things that are combustible are things like wood, Wood products, electronics, leather, cotton. Non-combustible are things like metal products, stone, clay, ceramic, or glass. A 30-foot tall building versus a 40-foot tall building will reduce the number of pallets at every shelf by two to three pallets. So in our building, as an example, instead of eight or nine pallets high, we would have five or six pallets high. So in a 216,000 square foot building, this would be a reduction of 2,160,000 cubic feet, which would be thousands of less pallets than if it was in the 40-foot tall building. Hold on.

You said that at a 40-foot height, it's eight or nine pallets, correct? Yes. And at a 30-foot height, it was five to six. Correct. Correct. So it's a reduction of... About three. Three. Yes. Okay.

And it really depends on the exact spot. As you see how the roof pitches down, you can see how the pallets kind of step up towards the middle, so it really... It really depends on the area of the building.

So the 2.1 million cubic square feet you're going to lose, is that for both buildings or just one of the buildings?

No, that's the one building. That's the larger building. Since I did this through the larger building, I used that as an example.

Okay, so 2.1 million for the large building. How many cubic feet you're going to lose if you were conforming height on the smaller building?

Yeah, I guess half of that since the building is about half the size, right? Uh, yes. I have to do a little bit of math, but yes. Um, and then, um, The last thing I had here was that no building mounted lights would be installed on the residential side of either building. They would only be on the non-residential sides.

And Steve, the roof construction, although there's no commitment to having Solar panels on the roof, the roof construction would be designed to handle the weight of solar panels?

That's correct. We would make sure that the structural capability of the roof would be increased so that we can install them in the future.

The state of New Jersey has actually stepped in and said buildings of this size, you must be able to handle, on your roof, 40% coverage of solar. So you have to have a solar-ready roof that can handle a minimum of 40% coverage of solar. comfortable advising the board that that will be a criteria for design.

Yes, I am. All right. Just so the record, the smaller building is 62.5% smaller than the larger building. So times that by 2.1 million, you're going to lose, well, the increase, we'll call it an increase that I'm losing, 1.312 million cubic feet. So by you increasing it, you're gaining your clients grabbing 3.412 million cubic feet for the additional height. And you don't have any, how about for the building coverage variance? Because you're also over by almost 5%. How much is the increase of building coverage providing your client? I think it's important to know of the deviations and what's the effect of them.

That's the planner's testimony to go through the FAR calculation.

Christine's going to do all the math.

Well, that's her responsibility.

They testified as 2.1 million cubic square feet for the larger one, for the Ahead of Night. And the smaller building is 62.5%, smaller than the other building, which equals 1.312 million. So you add them two up, it's...

Almost 2.5 million. It's almost 2.5 million. 3.412. I mean three. 3.412 million cubic feet just for the Ahead of Night.

And obviously, that's for the whole.

Right.

The addition of building coverage would be less than that.

Okay. Good math. Thank you.

And you said there's no lighting on the residential side. It's literally pitch black.

Yes, there's no lighting there. There'll be emergency lights at exterior exit doors, but they'll only come on if we lose power. And they're the 60-watt incandescent bulbs. Right, they're small bulbs.

So if I'm south of this looking north at it, I'm not seeing any light bulbs in there.

Yes, there's no reason for me to have lights up in there.

That's Mr. Rodosti's direct testimony. Mr. Rodosti, did I miss anything? No, I think that's everything.

So he's not covering landscaping, right? He's not covering any landscaping. Somebody else is going to do it.

Peter did the landscaping presentation. We met with Shari to make sure that she was satisfied with it.

So the one thing that I have for Peter, anyway, if this gets approved, you know, No tall grass. I think that was a note from years ago, right?

No tall grass. He actually said we got rid of the tall grass.

Okay.

Sorry, you had a question?

Yeah, where are your mechanicals?

They're not on the roof, are they? They're not on the roof. So the intention is it's not intended to be, the warehouse is not intended to be cooled. It's in tended to be heat and ventilation. So radiant heaters would be inside the building. There'd be ventilation inside the building. So there'd be some louvers. But that is it. The office areas would be cooled. But the office areas are 3,000 square feet, up to 3,000 square feet per building. And the roof over there, this is lower. Yeah, if needed, the roof over the office could be lower, but given that the office is in a corner where the parapet is higher The office area is under 3,000 square feet. The units there would probably be on the roof. However, they would be screened with the parapet.

The parapet never changes its height. It goes straight across. It's the roof that drops down behind the parapet.

Right. The parapet... Mostly goes straight across, but it does have some aesthetic ups and downs to it. On that one, I only drew the parapets on the end because the other parapets are far in the distance. So the parapet does go up and down for aesthetic reasons. One of the ordinances in Millstone is that the roof line is not supposed to be straight across, so we do drop it in order to meet the design requirements. But yes, the roof stays one height in the center of the building and then it slopes down towards the edges of the building along the short direction.

So the parapet is more significant at the corner and hides that air conditioning.

Correct. So since the office would be in one of the corners, the parapets are higher in the corners, it would conceal it. That would be the only place that would have air conditioning units.

You said with all the calculations about the square footage going up, cubic footage, how much bigger is the land? Did you say 5%? Is that what I heard someone say?

So they're also asking for building coverage variance. So our ordinance only permits a building coverage of 15%. They're proposing 19.7%. So they are 5% over, but to do the calculations of that, it's not... simply five percent it's five percent over the full entire lot area which is like 1.7 million square feet isn't it who we get no the total buildable the total builder area allows 1.73 square million square feet that's usable areas i guess what i'm

That's coming from the planet. I'm just interested why we over on that dimension. 5% seems trivial to me, but let's hear it. All right, so any more questions for the architect? All right, I think, are you all done? Yes. Thank you. I would like to get the public to be able to speak. They've come here to

You can use five minutes?

All right, let's do five minutes. We'll convene right at 10 o'clock sharp. The public can say a few words and give the feedback. And then we'll try to get out of here by 10 o'clock.

Jar to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Jar to you and me. Jar to the world. All the boys and girls. Jar to the fishes in the deep blue sea. I'll shower your heart with tenderness endlessly. I know you want to see me, but you're afraid of what I might have on my mind. Did no one ever tell you the facts of life? Well, there's so much you have to learn. And I would gladly teach you if I could only reach you and get your love. Lady willpower, it's now or never.

Thank you.

Let's go to San Francisco Where the flowers grow so very high Sunshine makes your mind grow Lots of sunny people Walking hand in hand They're not worthy people God bless you. Let's go to San Francisco Where the flowers grow so very high Thanks for watching!

Meet me in the country for all day. And the crowd is growing bigger.

No, no, that's so great.

all right so what we're going to do is for the next 25 minutes if the public would like to come up and ask comments questions give feedback it's important you you know express all your concerns so the applicant can hear them this is a interesting and difficult situation that we're all you know have to understand applicant versus the community. So at the best, you know, please don't come up and say it's going to kill the kids. I don't want to hear that. Tell me exactly, you know, a precise question that the applicant can answer. And we'll see what we can do. So right now, we'll open it to the board at 5 after 10.

We're going to open up questions or comments because you guys have been out here for a while. If you come up now, you're not being precluded to come up again when more witnesses testify and towards the end. So don't feel like this is your one last opportunity. That is not the case.

Correct.

So if you have any questions regarding the architect or the engineer or want to give a statement or a comment. Come back up. You've previously been sworn. You can start right off. Just state your name for the record.

Is he Tula? Slower and louder. Thank you, Mr. Tula. So first question is, what is the as of right total volume footage for the buildings versus the proposed square footage volume?

The architect indicated that he hadn't calculated those or done that comparison, but we'll agree to have that at the next meeting.

And according to the charge from our planner, For a building coverage percentage, the maximum permitted building coverage is 267,488 square feet of building. We're not talking cubic. And they're proposing 351. So that's the building area size. Not what's inside, just the outside perimeter. That gives you some idea. And that's roughly 83,000 square feet larger than that's permitted.

I have other questions.

Right, I just wanted to give you that may help you out.

Thank you.

So, Mr.

Pate, you'll have that. Yep. As of right, cubic square footage that would have been permitted at 30 feet at 276 versus 40 feet at 340. Got it. Thank you.

Anyone else? Well, then, if nobody else wants to come up. All right.

Come on up. Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm in the following testimony about to give us the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name for the record, respond in your last name, and give us your address. Fred Nurko, N-U-R-K-O. Did you guys get that?

Fred Nurko.

Nurko, N-U-R-K-O. Your first name, sir? Fred. Fred. And your address, sir? 60 Nurko Road, Gilson. You know?

ironic here last night a couple observations i made tonight when the fire chief spoke i was very impressed with his uh presentation and my concern was do we have the capabilities of putting a fire out all right and what's happened i remember 20 years ago we had the building in 20 30 years ago when we had this building influx with residential homes all right The owner of the property across the street from me was six acres, and he wanted to subdivide it. Well, come to find out, it was 5.99. Well, all my neighbors are up in orange. We're going to get a petition going. We're going to stop this. I said, wait a minute. Time out. Say you own that property, and you want to subdivide that property for one of your children. Would you want the board to turn you down because of a petition of one one-hundredth of an acre? Let's be honest about it. So I looked at it, and I looked at the 30-foot versus the 40-foot difference. It's 10-foot, all right? By the old testimony, the 30-foot warehouses, nobody wants them. They're not, nobody wants them. Again, you're talking 10-foot. The fire chief said, We have the capability of putting the fire down. It's non-combustible, you know? And I said, what's the issue? It's only 10%. It's 10 feet. The other comment I want to make is I've been a lifelong resident. My family's been here for many, many generations. You know, I've heard the argument about tax rateable, blah, blah, blah. Well, hell, I can go back to 1960, 1970, growing up in Millstone. But it was strictly an agricultural community, OK? It has since evolved. Progress moves on. I didn't like seeing all these developments moved in. I liked seeing it how it used to be. But who am I to say to stop progress? And over the years, Millstone has evolved, and evolved in a good way. Right? I know a lot of new residents, they moved here because, oh, we love the rural atmosphere of Millstone. It is. It's still a beautiful town. But it's not the town I knew. But I never complained about it. I accepted it. But in the meantime, my taxes go up because residential homes Do not bring in the ratables. It's going to cause your ratables to go up for school. You have a commercial building that helps reduce the ratables for the homeowners. So it makes sense to me. So I'm in favor. I'm pleased to provide that variance that they need.

Sir, please raise your right hand. You swear from the final testimony about the kids to hold truth, nothing but the truth. Yes, I do. Please state your name for record. I'm spying your last name because of your address, sir.

My name is Frank Juba, J-U-B-A. I'm at 17 Running Brook Drive. And my concern is that the original zoning, so 30 feet, somebody put some thought into that, I would assume, town planners 20, 30 years ago. We all knew the day was going to come when this wouldn't be the agricultural town. They limited the footprint of retail, and they limited the footprint of businesses. And at 30 feet, is the 30 feet designed for line of sight or light pollution, which I think is getting to be a concern. And I know it sounds like it's only 10 feet, but 10 feet on 30 feet is 33% larger, taller. Does that set a precedent for the next variance that somebody's trying to get? Those are my questions and concerns.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone else? Come on up.

Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear from the final testimony about the gift of the whole truth, not the book of truth? I do. Please state your name for record. Spell your last name, sir.

Mickey Spooner, S-P-O-O-N-E-R, 745 Primeville Road. Born and raised, 50 years just turned. As Mr. and our coaches watch this town change from dirt roads to kindergarten across the street from the Clarksburg Inn when it was still here, And the one thing that we're not going to stop is the evolution. I've known the Hump family for many years. This is their legacy. This is their livelihood. This is their retirement. Most of us don't have these opportunities to grow up in an environment like this. It's their livelihood. I ask all you guys to look at what's your livelihood. This is what they have to leave behind. They've donated tons of land in this area, in this community, down the street from Battleground Road, Preserve Farmland. They gave up future development rights. for this town. So all they're giving up is a piece of property for some development that is actually zoned for that area. So that's my take on it. I wish you both federally for a long time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ma'am, please raise your right hand. You swear from the fondest but about to give us the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

I do.

Please state your name for the record.

My name is Elizabeth Boland, B-O-L-A-N-D. I think it's disingenuous to pull on hard strings. No one is... What's your address? I'm sorry. I'm sorry, my address is 302 Windcrest Court. It's disingenuous to pull on hard strings and make it seem as though we don't want them to make money. I'm very sorry that your retirement plan does not fall within the guidelines of an entire town. If your retirement portfolio was based on stocks that underperformed, should we compensate those people as well? I just think we made those decisions for a reason. We made the ordinances for a reason. And I think your responsibilities to the town as a whole, not one thing. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bowman. Don't be shy.

Come on. Please raise your right hand. You swear from the final testimony about the gifts of the whole truth, nothing but the truth. Yes. Please state your name for the record.

My first name is Barbara Ann, and my last name is Noon, like 12 o'clock Noon, and I live at 104 Aggress Road. My question is, we talked about fires this evening. What about flooding? Any issues, anything I missed at previous meetings?

There's floods. While we have the engineer, Mr. Strong, why don't you come up? Why don't you talk about drainage on the site and flooding, et cetera, that you've designed as part of your plan. He needs to be the one that would testify to that, ma'am.

Okay.

There's a couple of questions that I can ask him to set the stage before he goes into deep drainage. So, Peter, I'm going to ask if You're familiar with the township's stormwater management ordinances? Yes, I am. And you're familiar with the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection stormwater statutes?

Yes.

Can you advise the board that this plan has been designed to be 100% compliant with both the township ordinances and the NJDEP requirements.

It has been, yes.

And the system that you have designed by state law must be maintained by the property owner pursuant to a written operations and maintenance agreement that is reviewed by the township engineer and recorded as a lien against the property.

Yes, I am aware of that.

And in perpetuity, the responsibility is on the property owner with the township having the power to tax if they fail to do so. That's correct, yes. And if you want to spend a little bit more time describing what your stormwater system is, but I think those are the important elements of a stormwater system.

Well, I think I briefly alluded to it when we were talking about the exhibit. There's four infiltration basins that are going to be built around the buildings, and there's one pond that's also going to be built. So all the stormwater from the building roof drains and the impervious areas for the driveways and loading docks and that sort of thing would all be directed to the infiltration basins and to the pond. And the whole premise is that the infiltration basins will allow as much water as possible to infiltrate back into the ground to recharge the groundwater. And then any excess would be then directed to the pond should be used for irrigation and other purposes for the site, firefighting and lawn irrigation. And the discharge from the site has to be 50%, 75%, and 80% of the 210 and 100-year storms under pre-development conditions are allowed to be discharged. So the actual discharge from the site will be less than what the current discharge would be under the existing conditions.

So it'll handle the wetlands?

Well, we're not going to disturb the wetlands, but... Oh, I thought warehouses disturb wetlands.

I thought there's so much research that's been done... that warehouses do disturb wetlands. Yes, they do.

We know where the wetlands are.

It's not. It's actually a fact.

One person talking at a time. I'm listening.

I'm listening to you.

I just said that we know where the wetlands are. We designed the site to avoid the wetlands as much as possible. And the wetlands would not be adversely impacted. Especially since they're currently farmed, so there's no wetland vegetation or animals or whatever that would be utilized in that area because it was farmed several times a year, turned up and harvested and that sort of thing, so we would not be harming the wetlands beyond their current conditions.

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Newman.

Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear from the following testimony about to give us a whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes. Could you say your name off the record, spelling your last name? Ryan Moran, M-O-R-A-N, 7 Nathaniel Drive.

My question is due to the traffic and the trucks.

If the road is scheduled for a 12-ton weight limit, how are we allowing tractor trailers on the road that weigh 88,000?

There's a traffic answer and there's a legal answer, and when Mr. Scott Kennel testifies, we'll post both of them.

So you're going to have a traffic engineer testify? Yes. But what's the legal answer? They're illegally traveling on a road. You're a lawyer. Sure.

Can they get tickets?

No.

Why can't they get tickets?

When we put the traffic on, we'll do it as a comprehensive investigation.

Hold that question for the traffic engineer, and he'll have to answer that.

Okay. Because the road's not wide enough, right? True. We're going to make it 30 feet wide. That's what we testified. Sir?

Yes, that's what he said. Okay, okay. 30 feet wide.

Do you think that's wide enough?

The township engineer did.

Okay, so we need to talk about that. All right, so what we'll do is the next time they come, they'll be addressed by the traffic engineer.

And so when he comes up and we open up for questions, that's my time. That's your time to jump up. Thank you.

All right, thank you, Mr. Mayor. All right, seeing no one else, Mr. Pape, if you want, you have 10 minutes, 12 minutes, if you'd like to, is there anything worth discussing or you want to start your next meeting? I don't know if there's any value.

I think that the appropriate thing to do is to ask, Mr. Chair, that you identify the opportunity that the board can hear this application again so that we can check with our professionals. I don't want to. and make certain that we can all get back to see you.

Right. I know unfortunately we're approaching with July and August. It's always a little hard to get a full board. Oh, yeah.

Tomorrow's going to be fun. Is your August 26th?

WE HAVE CELL TOWER IN JULY AND TWO OTHER APPLICATIONS. ARE YOU GOING AWAY?

NO, BUT HISTORICALLY, AUGUST IS A MEETING THAT'S VERY HARD TO GET A FULL BOARD.

IT JUST IS HISTORICALLY. CAN WE DO A QUICK POLL HERE? ARE YOU GUYS AVAILABLE, AUGUST?

AUGUST, I'M AVAILABLE. AUGUST?

So far you are, right. I can't guarantee anything, but at least we have a couple of yeses. I'm around, so I think I am.

We have two board members, that'll give them two months to get their backs better. Or you want to do September, Mr. Pape?