Town Council - Special Meeting

okay working i think they are okay um karen would you please call the roll that's president paul m roger here vice president thomas p welch iii here councillor peter d connerton senior here councillor christopher m logan here councillor charles r roberts here councillor dennis b toronto councillor barbara avon villas we have a quorum mr president

Thank you, Karen. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. okay good evening everyone and welcome uh it's the first uh public uh hearing for uh uh budget so let me just read it in and we'll get started um so number one is public hearings advertised in order to the town of middletown it's the first reading in order to amendment to the audiences of the town of middletown general fund parks and recreation fund sewer fund refuse and recycling fund appropriating revenues for the fiscal year july 1st 2026 to june 30th 2027.

motion open to public hearing.

motion to second to open all in favor. Aye. Um, before we get started though, um, I just, we just found out that, uh, no moment, no moment of silence tonight. No. Okay. So we'll do it next meeting.

Excellent.

Okay.

Thank you for the correction. Sean.

Good evening. How are you? Good. How are you?

I am well, thank you.

the microphones should be in good operating condition tonight.

If not, we're going to have to budget for new ones.

No, I think we're fine. So the configuration issue. I'm going to quickly run through a presentation that covers the proposed budget. prior to you opening up the public hearing tonight, but really recapping a lot of information that you've received at our Saturday meeting. So if Nate can put the presentation up on the screen. Go to the first slide. City Council Chambers, going to start out first with the impact on the taxpayer just it will come back to this at the end of the presentation in this budget, looking at the median home value. City Council Chambers, For residential non residential commercial single family usage and proposed beach fees. City Council Chambers, What you'll see is a budget that results in a overall on a consolidated basis, an increase of $268 for somebody who owns real estate in an own a resident owned property $343 on a. City Council Chambers, piece of real real property that's not a non resident owner occupied and on the commercial side $577. We'll go through this in pieces, but I think just from an impact standpoint, I just wanted to set the stage for the amount of spending that's included in the program that you'll be considering. We go to the next slide. We have a number of budget challenges. A lot of them you've heard, they continue to compound the way the economy continues to evolve. City Council Chambers, Personnel and employee costs are a big cost driver we're a service organization, so it is a number one driver of costs, year to year, one of the bigger costs that we have this year that's increased is medical it is up 13. roughly 13% year to year. That's for both the town and school. There's a number of reasons for that. One is the changes in pharmaceutical costs. It's also related to the change in rebate programs that are no longer offered between the different health care providers. So that that is a big part of what's going on. There's also a bit of catch up that's happening where Because of labor contracts, employee cost didn't reflect increases from COVID or from inflation. As we work through those contracts, there are some higher wage impacts than we've had in prior years. John Kane, Intergovernmental funding is a challenge, both at the State and Federal level. Basically, what we see is that as money is dries up at the Federal level, the State tries to make up for it, and as the money dries up at the State level, the town tries to to make up for it. So That is a real challenge and something that we all struggle with infrastructure and facilities. A big part of what we are managing is the cost of infrastructure, maintaining it, as well as constructing new infrastructure, as well as the cost of the facilities themselves. Uh, cost allocation planning, we talked a little bit about this at the last meeting, uh, at our workshop. Uh, we are working on a cost allocation plan. Our use of shared services between the town school library are increasing. Uh, we need to develop a more mature cost allocation plan. Um, and that's something we're working towards and something that will have an impact in this budget and future budgets. One of the major pieces in this budget is managing capital financing. The school, we will be borrowing upwards of $190 million to finance the school. Our second phase of borrowing will happen here in the late summer, early fall. One of the challenges is that cashflow is basically a year behind. And one of the things that we don't want is to increase taxes when we know there'll be reimbursement coming from the state to offset the project cost. So what the finance office has done is come up with a plan to use fund balance to essentially cover the cash flow of the new debt service that will come on to the books. And we will replace that fund balance in a future period when we get catch-up payments from the state to reimburse us for those dollars. And then lastly is economic volatility, the war with Iran. it's a war, whatever we're calling it, is having a significant impact on the economy at all levels. So if people are struggling to fill their cars with gasoline, costs are going up. Inflation was 3.8% reported just last. 30-year bonds, I guess that was the news yesterday. The rates are higher than they've been in a long time. City Council Chambers, These are all having different effects on different people within our Community and it makes putting the budget together that much more challenging. City Council Chambers, So that's that's the last piece on the next slide is going to run through some highlights on general fund expenditures. On capital expenditures, there's a decrease, and that's mostly due to non-recurring capital improvement projects that took place in fiscal year 26. Probably the largest of those projects was the cost of replacing the two tanker fire pumper trucks at the fire department. So that would have been in last year's budget, not in this year's, but is a major driver in why there's a decrease this year. There's an increase in educational funding, which is due to operational expenses of the school department itself. Debt service increase is the interest payment that we anticipate due on the school bond, the new school bond that comes online. finance and administration we're seeing an increase and that's mostly related to step increases related to new employees, as well as the cost of providing medical and dental benefits. Under general government there's an increase that's associated with the hiring of a deputy town administrator, which would be a new position in this budget. City Council Chambers, Building and planning there's a decrease and that reflects mostly non recurring costs in the planning department related to consulting that that was related to projects that have been completed or at a point where we need no further study. There's an increase in the police department that's related to contractual obligations, as well as bringing in 2 new recruits. Those are positions that are already authorized. They're not new employees, but there are some costs associated with that also impacting that department or medical and dental payments. City Council Chambers, Under fire protection it's a decrease, and that is due to the fire pumpers that were mentioned in the beginning, but we do have that decrease in that department's budget because of that. City Council Chambers, Public works there's an increase, and that is mostly related to increase funding for roads, as well as some architectural and engineering studies. City Council Chambers, Grant expenditures are increasing grant grant funded expenses and those are related to two grants related to the middle town prevention coalition, the p fast grant. City Council Chambers, The stop grant and on the public safety grants safer and the cops grant so that's why those are increasing. Other associated activities. We see an increase in costs related to the library, the new library coming on board, and that's related to new staffing cost. Also funding the labor contract, bringing those salaries better in line with comparable communities. And lastly, cost associated with a 30,000 square foot building, the library's portion of that. So there's an increased cost there. And then finally, you'll see the increase in transfers out to other funds. And a lot of that transfer is related to transfer of money related to the new hotel tax revenue that we were able to get legislators to pass last year, the transfer of that money out of the general fund to the capital improvement program fund.

Go forward a couple slides need.

For capital improvements just quickly running down this list under technology $265,000 and that's for upgrading. servers that are related to virtual work environments under support services is $186,000 that's mostly related to key card upgrades on buildings throughout the town under the police department $235,000 for vehicles. under the fire department $175,000 which is mostly related to an upgrade to a locker room that's necessary to address. We've been working within the building we don't have enough space so we're expanding the space that's available for. female female locker rooms. under public works, $1.2 million, and that's related to a number of vehicle purchases. There's three large dump trucks, one administrative vehicle, a Ford F-450, a larger small dump truck, and then a roadside mower tractor. So that would be the last vehicle that's in that budget. under the library there's 103 000 which is related to the hvac system and under the school department uh there's a number of items uh there's three hundred thousand dollars in technology equipment There's two vans where we've been looking, we talk all the time about one of the biggest challenges we have with students is transportation. So we're adding to two vehicles to the fleet, which would allow administrative transportation during the day and after school getting kids to different opportunities related to their, their educational programs and There is also a security system at the forest Avenue school that is included in that dollar amount. and go to the next slide, talk a little bit about the levy. We've broken the levy out, just part of it for the CIP, education, all other municipal. Last year, we appropriated out $2.4 million to the capital improvement program. There is in the budget ordinance, a recommendation not to increase that amount this year. So it would remain steady at $2.4 million, $2,384,910. The reason for that is that we're transferring in the hotel money from the general fund, the new hotel money. So it did not appear that we would need to increase the amount going into the capital improvement program this year to give ourselves a break. So that that's why we held that constant. Under education, there's a four percent appropriation that's at the request of the school committee. One million, three hundred and sixteen thousand one hundred and eighty dollars. Also, this is year five of five for the deficit reduction plan. So we have an additional two hundred thousand dollars of funding that goes to the school to basically what we were doing is trying to correct the use of fund balance a number of years ago to fund operations. The school department finally ran out of fund balance. So over time we've been using arpa dollars to slowly uh in year one or whatever it was we used some arpa we used a lot of arpa money so to fund the deficit and a little bit of tax money and then each year we basically have weaned ourselves off of that so this is our last year uh with the total dollar amount being uh will be coming from taxes once we appropriate this two hundred thousand dollars That gives the school a total appropriation from taxes of $1,516,180, which is a 4.43% increase. Under all other municipal departments, we basically have $199,862 going towards the library, and then $421,184 coming to the other town departments. Total of $621,047, which is an increase of 2.92%. Go to the next slide. PB, Harmon Zuckerman, Net assessments think the lot of big numbers here. PB, Harmon Zuckerman, There's a basically you'll see in the third column. There's a shift. PB, Harmon Zuckerman, In assessments from the non resident residential real estate to the resident residential real estate and what is being reflected in that shift is the short term rental change that you recently made, whereas a someone who has that short-term rental, and Peter can probably explain it better, rather than being immediately classified as a non-resident, paying the non-resident tax clause, if I'm grandfathered with a short-term rental, I'm eligible for the... Yeah, this was the change to the ordinance where the council was trying to incentivize the use of properties for long-term rentals, and...

determined that if you had an investment or a rental property that wasn't your primary residence, you could still get the owner-occupied rate if you rented it for at least a year to someone who used it as their primary residence.

Yep. So we had the meetings on that, and that just recently passed. So that is the estimated shift from the assessor on how that will impact us. Page 7 is just a graph basically showing the ups and downs. If we go to the next slide, Nate. Same numbers, but you'll see there's the shift between the. The resident the non resident and then you'll see slight increases in the commercial and personal property assessments. On the next slide we talked about the proposed rate and levy. Uh, the tax rate increase that we, you know, that is estimated with this budget proposal is 3.2%. So for a real estate owner occupied, it would go from $9 and six, six and 0.4 cents would go to $9, 35.4 cents, which is a 29% increase, a 29 cent increase. Real estate tax rate for non-owner occupied would go from $11.78.5 to $12.16.2, which would be a $0.38 increase. The commercial tax rate would go from $13.58.5 to $14.02, which would be a $0.43 increase. And then personal property is frozen at $18.70. So that's on the rate side again. Overall, it's a three point two percent rate increase. The way that breaks out for the levy is that twenty percent of that increase would come to the town four hundred and twenty-one thousand one hundred and eighty-four dollars. Nine percent of the increase would go to the library one hundred and ninety-nine thousand eight hundred and sixty-three dollars. and 71% of the budget budgeted levy increase $1,516,180 we go to the school department and again that's that $2,137,227 that we would raise with the 3.2% increase in the taxes. We go to the next slide just looking at the school department. What you'll notice the their budget goes from $46,279,279,270 to $47,975,126 most of that cost is in their operating line. At this point in time, and most of that cost is related to increases related to the cost of special ED and. light items around special ED the special services that are associated with it also with transportation that's the major two drivers and the school budget. Just benefits it's it's medical it's it's healthcare and dental that's what's driving that factor. Going to the next slide this just reconciles the request from the school committee. The last year, the amount was $32,904,494. The 4% increase, $1,316,180 gets to the total unrestricted appropriation to the school department at $34,220,674. the other appropriation is from the deficit reduction plan and as i said this is year 505 the total amount that's appropriated is nine hundred thousand dollars and that reconciles to the amount of the deficit that was uh recognized uh five years ago when when that was an issue uh the total town appropriation would be thirty five million one hundred and twenty thousand six hundred and seventy four dollars On the next slide, we just talk a little bit about the library. We've been investing more money in the library. Part of it is to reconcile the salaries and to recognize the employees, the hard work they do, as well as what the similar employees get paid in comparable communities. uh you'll see that uh again we've proposed an increase for fiscal year 27. um the increase from prior year is 19.7 percent 199 863 dollars and you'll see really over the last couple years as we've taken on the library project last year uh The increase was 32.6%. And again, this year is close to 20% so And I think I'll just loop back, you know, one of the big things that we have in the upcoming budget is we will be bringing three buildings online. City Council Chambers, In the upcoming year we just signed off on the agreement with the state for the reimbursement related to the library. City Council Chambers, At your June one meeting, we should be executing the gmp to start work on the library, so that project is going to be moving forward with a ribbon cutting expected right around the first of the year. So that's that will be moving quickly. So we'll have a big move to that new facility. And really work to move from the high school and the middle school has already begun. Mr. Collins is already working on working with this teachers as far as packing materials, getting rid of John Potter, books and things that we no longer need. But when we're here next year talking about this, I expect the staff will be fully engaged in trying to figure out how we're we're going to be getting hopefully our, you know, a conditional Co. On those buildings, and we will be in moving mode. So everyone should have a John Potter, you know, box box cutters and lifting belts, because it's it's going to be all hands on deck. And I guess my point being you know the while there is somewhat of a difference of six months between when the library open in the school buildings it's all going to be happening and that that is going to be our primary focus. So that's a big change on the next slide. specific appropriations. Those requests went through the outreach committee. Basically, they have a set of recommendations that have been provided to you. The difference between what was budgeted and what the committee recommended was three hundred and forty nine dollars. So that's a good thing. There's no we're right. There's no additional appropriation necessary from when we prepared the budget documents. City Council Chambers, The one thing i'll point out, we identified during the Saturday workshop is, we have to add an additional $50,000 for the Florence Gray Center and that will be reflected in the motions that the finance office have prepared. City Council Chambers, When you ultimately adopt the budget so. City Council Chambers, The variance has been identified in a funding source to pay for it has been identified. City Council Chambers, The next slide talks about the sewer fund. The sewer fund budget goes from seven point nine million dollars to eight point six million dollars. The major issue that's impacting us there. Part of it is debt service related to improvements at the Long Wharf pump station. But the bigger issue is emergency repairs that are necessary for the primary clarifier at the wastewater treatment plant. I want to say the total cost is twenty four to twenty five million dollars, and our share of that's roughly nine million dollars. So we are planning to have to take that debt service on to the sewer fund. Unfortunately, that will result in the rate increasing by nine percent overall for the budget. And again, most of that is in that that fee that we pay for the capital replacement, and that that's an obligation we have.

Do you mind just explaining that a little further? Because it's Newport's property, but contractually, we're obligated to pay for some of their infrastructure improvements. So I just want to make sure that people understand that's where that money's going.

Yep. The money's going to the connington wastewater treatment plant, and essentially we talk about regionalization. It is a regional operation. There's essentially three partners, the town of Middletown, the city of Newport, and the Us. Navy base. And when there's a capital improvement or a major repair, what happens is under our agreements is that, based on the design year utilization. So our share of in this case, using the wastewater treatment plant, a percentage would be allocated to the town of the total cost of the project, a percentage to the city of Newport and a percentage to the Navy. The great thing for the navy is the Federal Government has lots of money, so they just write a check, and that's that's really easy to do on the town side. We do. We have conduit financing through the city of Newport, because it's, as Paul said, it technically is their building. We don't have a building to borrow against. They go to the infrastructure bank, and they they get the financing, and then basically that loan, the percentage of Middletown and Newport is allocated between the two communities. we enter into an agreement, and then we're obligated to pay that over the upcoming years. Typically, ultimately, the Council will get that amendment to review. You'll review that debt agreement before we can start making payments, and that typically is vetted by our who specifically works on that. We have an expert that looks at that to make sure that we are. We are being fairly assessed that that debt payment. So but that is part of the cost of our sewer system is we pay. We have a portion of the Washington Street Cso. The Longmore pump station. the Coddington Treatment Plant, and I think that's it, those three stations. Thank you.

Yep.

Go to the next slide. So the sewer maintenance fee for every 1,000 gallons that's assessed, it will be $21.44, which is an increase of $2.05 over the prior year. So while the budget increased by the 9%, the fee will increase by 11%. There's a customer service fee that people pay. That is set by the PUC. So it's not negotiable how that gets paid. That's a fee that we have to pay towards the reading of the meters, the water meters. The water meter is the basis for the sewer maintenance fee. that fee will be forty, seven dollars and ninety cents in the upcoming year. That's a two dollar ninety, seven cent increase over the prior year. Water usage decreased from forty, three thousand five hundred and eighty two gallons to forty, two thousand five hundred and thirty gallons. That's the average uh metered user in the system uh so the single average single family fee will increase to 959.74 which is a 69.76 over the prior year and the table below that breaks out the uh the different fees that the average rate payer pays so that's the sewer fund on the next slide refuse and recycling. There's a 3% increase in operating cost. It goes from $1,428,839 to $1,473,911. That's mostly driven by a 42% $42,000 increase related to the Republic hauling contract. as well as increase in tipping fees for uh trash recycling and uh refuge uh so uh one of our smaller funds but uh it does have a three percent increase uh because of that going to the next slide nate uh we do see that we'll have to increase the annual permit from 180 uh 185 dollars to 190 dollars that's a five dollar increase We're also proposing that if someone has a second refuse barrel, a new fee, which would be $25 to raise additional revenue to offset the cost. And then lastly, we are recommending that we use $43,000 of the fund balance to balance the fund out. We do have a small amount of excess fund balance. So we are using that to stabilize the fee so that we're only raising it by the $5. The cost per bag is unchanged so we're not making any changes to the to the bag cost. On the next slide the last fund is parks and recreation. City Council Chambers, The amended budget last year $3,413,000 increasing 6% up to $3,617,523 one of the major drivers here is simply compensation and that's coming from minimum wage. City Council Chambers, minimum wage is increasing by $1 this year will increase by $1 again next year, so we are trying to basically deal with that, as we hire kids to work at the beach that that that is our challenge. They do get paid a little bit more than minimum wage because jobs like lifeguards, it's actually very, it's a competitive work environment to get enough lifeguards. We go through a full analysis looking at other communities as well as at what rate are we filling the job so we're not overpaying. So I think we have a good plan in place. But again, it's still with that that increase in minimum wage. It does add up. There are some salaries not related to seasonal salaries that run through the parks and recreation fund. Those are allocations from people like myself, public works director. So there is an increase in benefits twelve to thirteen percent. There's an increase in operating costs, $21,000, mostly related to beach maintenance, the buoys, picnic table frames, fencing, some stone wall repairs. And then lastly, there's a decrease in capital. There's some non-recurring capital from 26, but it's offset by money we need to invest in the Wyatt Road soccer field, replacing the irrigation system. The irrigation system there that's right now is pretty patched together and requires a lot of repair and has failed at times and it's a tough property to have it fail, because when we constructed those fields there's a lot of sand. That was placed there so without a lot of without the irrigation system, the grass, the grass will burn and die during the summer it turns orange quick, so there is a recommendation in the beach budget to replace the irrigation system. Go to the next slide, and i'm going to read it from here because I don't have this with me. There are some recommendations to change the beach parking fees. So for residents, we're proposing that the fee go from ninety dollars to one hundred dollars. It means the the non-resident fee will go from one hundred and eighty dollars to two hundred dollars. On the senior fees we're recommending that those remain unchanged. So a senior would pay eighty, five dollars that would stay at eighty, five dollars. Non-resident senior would stay at one seventy, and then for motorcycles that would go from forty dollars to forty, five dollars. Non-resident motorcycles would go from eighty to ninety. daily parking fees. This is where it gets a little bit funky. The current rate is $25. As you're aware, we've been talking about the State is charging a tax of 7% sales tax on parking. So We're proposing changes in the parking fee to help offset the cost, but also we end up with an odd dollar amount. Twenty, eight dollars and four cents. Weekend of holidays goes from thirty, five dollars to thirty, seven dollars and thirty, eight cents. Motorcycles and scooters goes from twenty dollars to twenty, three dollars and thirty, eight cents. Those around off at thirty dollars, forty dollars and twenty, five dollars. Once the taxes applied, the problem we have is We we receive thousands of people each week that park. I was looking at the numbers today. It's between four and 5,000 people will buy a daily parking sticker each week in July. We are not equipped to make change for someone at you know $28 and 4 cents. So it's we've got to round up. So the the best the best operations we have is when we can at least round to a $5 bill. So that's partly of what's going there. So part is to fund the cost of minimum wage. The other part is to deal with this tax issue. That legislation is pending. We're pushing. We should probably know next week. We'll see the budget come out from the General Assembly. That means 90% of the budget up there will be set, and then we'll have a few days to lobby and get our legislation considered. Go to the next slide. This is that original slide it's just got a couple columns added just to give it some more perspective so again impact on the taxpayer actually have the slide mark save me so for the the median taxpayer. The total that person would have paid last year for real estate, sewer, refuse, beach. They would have paid $5,723. With this budget, they'd see $183 increase in taxes, $70 increase in sewer, a $5 increase in their refuse permit, and $10 increase if they bought a beach sticker. The total of all four of those, $5,991, an increase of $268. So that's what the... average uh resident tax rate or resident tax uh real estate property owner would see for a known uh for a non-resident it would be 343 dollars and for the commercial rate payer it would be 577 dollars so i just again just wanted to start with what the impact of the budget was and end on you know what the impact is relative to the total bill people pay And I think with that we would start the you know, barring any questions the public hearing process. Just like to thank the department heads for the work they did putting the budget together. They did a really great job. I think they are very mindful of the cost of living in Middletown, mindful of what residents are facing in their own budgets. At the same time, they are trying to maintain the services that residents rely upon and the expectation that they improve. I mean, that's another part to all of this. They have gotten creative and how they deliver services, as well as how we we pay for them so. That I will turn it over to you, Mr President.

So now the 183. For the average resident. that's what's the what's the percent is it 3.73 point to 3.2 okay.

Okay, that was based Can I ask one question on that?

Yeah. So you're based on what we were you saying is the average, the median $631,400.

That's the median home assessment in Middletown for 31400. Yep. For a non resident, it's 868 684 200.

And then commercials 1,165,550. Well, that that average, though, is not hundreds. I thought you said it was 337 a house, right? At the beginning, what's the average homes tax is going to go up on a dollar basis this year.

That would be the 183.

And commercial sorry I thought you.

Commercial would be 507 non resident would be 258.

The 3.2% is 29 cents. We're talking about the rate earlier.

Yeah, so.

3.2 is 29 cents increase for 1,000 for a resident. 38 cents for a non-resident per 1,000 and 43 cents for commercial per 1,000. Yep. All at the 3.2% increase if it was adopted like that. Correct. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sean. Okay, so... We're going to open it up to any residents that would like to or anybody that would like to make comments we're not this isn't a workshop it's a public hearing, so I want to make sure that we stick to that. If you have questions. or recommendations. that's what we're looking for so. There anyone to Chris.

Christopher row 177 chases lane just a quick question on under the capital improvements and listed for the library 103,105 for HVAC improvements is that that's talking about for the existing library. Chris you need to address oh sorry they'll answer the question okay i'm like my question is that 103. 1,105 HVAC improvements for the library. If that's for the existing library, is it because that is, I mean, I guess I'm trying to figure out how to form my question. If we're getting a new library, then why are we putting that 105,000 into improvements on existing library that's going away? My question.

Sure. When we looked at the original right library program, we looked at the fact that the Hvac units had some life to them, and that would be something we would replace on over time. Fortunately, we've been able to secure a large grant excessive of half a million dollars from the Champlin Foundation to replace the units on the library.

to fully replace all of the units we need this additional dollar amount so that all of the the rooftop units can be replaced he he's he's he he's referring to the old library he wants to know if we're putting any money into the old library this is the new library unit yes this would go into the new library yeah and we're going to get that through a champlain grant which they were generous uh with us so correct Is there anyone else that would like to have any questions or recommendations or comments? Don't make it this easy. Okay. Any councils have any questions?

I have a few. So anybody else want to go before me?

I'll go, Paul. Thank you.

Thank you for putting this together, finance team and town administration team. Appreciate it. You know, I'm having a hard time, I guess, John Potter, Passing a three point two percent tax increase. I understand the reasoning in a lot of cases. I really do, you know. But when you look across the board, and I know this is a lot driven by contracts like John Potter, we got to do something about the health health care costs in this town. I wish we would have gotten ahead of it a little sooner, but that that's a significant blow here, and i'm not sure we can do a lot about that. But i really you know coming from the private industry i look at the salary increases across the town and i didn't get an increase this year it wasn't because i didn't do my job it's because it's private industry we didn't have the money this year and i think we have to as a town really make some difficult decisions if if that's what's driving our costs every year i mean we have these increases every year and it's you know it doesn't seem like a lot to some people but it is a lot to some people and people are moving out of this town um people can't afford to live here and I I just you know I've told many times as a town counselor my job is to create policy set policy it's not my job to go through and and go line by line until we get the budget season then we're told that it is and it's so I I for one you know would like to see us come back with a two percent increase to our time I don't know where we get it I'd be happy to come in this week and work as hard as we can spend as much time as we can but I just I can't justify our taxpayers out there who are already seeing huge increases in their assessments of their house and and we're giving away four to six percent pay increases for everybody in the town it's it just doesn't sit right with me it does not at all and you know i i don't think this i think this town and it's not our talents our state our state has a spending problem we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem and you know I understand we have to supply services but I think we really have to dive deeper and and see a way to at least keep this to a two percent increase this year and work towards maybe maintaining that every year um I just don't see how I can support a 3.2 percent tax increase to our to our homeowners and to our residents thank you okay thank you Charlie any of the councils have any other comments

Oh, thanks so I'll just push back on Charlie a little bit and I appreciate your comments, Charlie. Um, as far as the salary increases go, you have sat here along with the rest of us. When we negotiate contracts for all of the different departments. And I've been here just a little bit longer than you, but what I have seen, I always feel as though. teachers, the fire police, all the rest of them. It's like, if it were me, I would be fighting against what we give them. Um, and we've heard the town administrator stand up here a number of times and say, the reason that we have to put these increases in for employees is because we are losing them. People come in the door and they leave. We are just, I mean, we see it every time he puts it up there, comparable communities, how much they're paying. We're right in the middle. We're right about there. We're not paying over the the other other municipalities are in our area. I think we're right in the sweet spot. And that's the cost of doing business. We are a business. The town is so. I mean, did you say four to 6% increases in. Salaries.

Sure, but you said, yeah, it's in this book right here. We have all the salaries from the town.

OK, but but we all sit here and we all agree Or we vote anyway I shouldn't say we all agree, but we all vote on every contract comes before, so I don't know how you can come back now and say that's too much money. I want it to be 2% because we have already agreed that we're going to pay that money, I also agree with the your statement, and I mean I do agree with your statement about healthcare costs are ridiculous. But we also heard mark stand up there and say we're at 13% where other municipalities and state are at 20 so it is out of control. But I don't know what we're going to do about that. But here we are today going forward. Can't close the door now after the animals left the barn. You know, we can say for next year, I would like to do better on health care. I would like to, we're going to look at the contracts a little tighter, but we're here. So I... same i agree with the the uh thank you to all everybody that put their heads together try to make this happen um and taxes are an easy thing to swallow but if you look at every other thing in your life in your costs that you bear as a as a homeowner everything's going up i don't know how you can not expect the town is just like a big house right it has Ability costs and energy and all the rest of it. Everything is the same. I don't think this is out of whack. So I'm all right with it.

Thank you. Just one point. I've only been involved with a couple of the contracts since I've been here. Understood. So I get your point, and I completely understand. Like, these are contracts, but, you know, I don't know. I don't see how this is sustainable. I really don't. Again, I come from the private business. I just don't see how it's sustainable to keep doing this. I don't know. So I think we, you know, maybe we have to look at some of our departments and say, do we have too many people in those departments right now? I mean, that's, I know people don't want to hear that, but they work for the town, but maybe we have to look at that now. You know, maybe that's where we're at in this because I, you know, we're not, we can't just be going to revenue. The state comes in and take all our revenue right now, you know, and that's, so when the next time our delegation comes down here, I think all of us should lay into them and say, you're taking all our money. And we don't get anything from it you're mandating stuff down to us, so we have to do, and you don't give us money for it. And it's ridiculous and I hope people go to the go to the election this year and they get rid of some of our representatives, because I don't think they're doing anything for our town.

Okay, thank you guys. Any of the Councils or anybody in the audience yes Teresa. Before we go, come on up, Teresa, sorry. I do want to say that during the budget workshop that Saturday, the school has cut $819,000 in salaries. So to say we haven't cut salaries, that's not factual. 20 positions. They've cut 819, call it 820, 819 and change in salaries. So there's been some cuts. It's just, you know, those are some hard decisions that need to be made. Sorry. Go ahead, Teresa.

That's okay. Teresa Spangler, 132 Peckham Lane. I'm here as a resident tonight. I understand what you're saying, Charlie, but realize that as a taxpayer, I have a business and my home, so I pay taxes twice. The commercial got me a little flustered, but it's less than 80 cents a day per resident if they're within that tax as an average taxpayer. And if you think about it, people go to Starbucks every single day of the week, and they're spending $8, dropping $8 on a coffee. And so, you know, not everybody does that, and I understand that, but I want my roads plowed in the snow. I want to be able to leave my driveway after the blizzard. It took three days to get there, but they got it, and they came down, and they cleaned it. Those things have to happen. The lawns need to be mode. The sides of the road need to be clean. The leaves need to be picked up off the street. The trash needs to be picked up. I mean, nobody wants to see our taxes go up, but we live in a beautiful town, and if we don't maintain it and sustain the infrastructure and the safety and the the public safety, the fire that all of those things, it's not going to stay the way it is. If we start cutting positions that are um you know to save a thousand dollars here and a thousand dollars there next thing you know we're not going to be the town that we are middletown's not going to be middletown anymore i don't want to see my taxes go up 78 78 cents a day either but you know in the grand scheme of things it's it's it didn't go up i don't know one year we didn't have a raise at all or if it was insignificant but in order to maintain everything is going up i don't know about you filling your oil tanks this winter but boy i'll tell you what that hurt and driving to the pump every day is killing me too you know to go fill my gas to tank it for my van at four dollars and fifty cents a gallon so yes it's tight but i also think we have to look at the grand scheme of things of keeping this town safe, clean, and healthy. Because if it's not a clean town, it's not going to be a healthy town. And so I understand it's tough for young people to live here. I know my kids are that age of not being able to afford a house in this area right now. But I also have to say, as residents living here, we need to be able to sustain a pleasant, wonderful community that we have built all these years. I think raising the beach parking is a very good decision. I think it should be that way. We're bringing tourists in. Let them pay. Let them help pay some of our bills down. you know, increasing the recycling. I mean, is the refuse extra sticker for either one, whether it's blue or or gray or is that just that was my other question. Extra gray. Just the gray, not the blue. Okay. So, you know, I think that if people are having their houses full of people and they're producing a bunch of trash, yes, we should. You should pay $25 extra for that barrel. So I just think it everything in moderation. But if we try cutting back more, and cutting salaries. We're not going to have the safety. You look what happened at Second Beach yesterday. If we didn't have our police force to do what they would need to do, we would have problems. And we had to bring in extras. Besides, obviously, that was a large crowd. Thank God it wasn't our Middletown kids though, right? But I'm just saying, you know, we can't cut any more than what we have. So I just think that it is it is tough. But I think people need to look in their pocketbooks and say in their wallets and say for 80 cents a day, if I can live in this beautiful, beautiful community. that's what it's going to take i'll just cut back on something else for $350 a year, you know, so I mean I know what you're saying my elderly parents lived here for until they passed so it's not easy, but I think that. We all have to be responsible for our town to and everyone needs to put their part in thanks don't raise my taxes extra okay.

Dennis yep.

Thank you, and I appreciate everybody being here this evening i'm not going to repeat what Charlie said, but I in agreement with him. we've raised taxes very high over the last three years. we've invested a lot of money in this town, we really bought a lot of equipment. We we've we've filled roles we get minimum manning. We don't have much choice in a lot of our contracts, because the argument kind of goes like this well, we can go to arbitration and we can argue well how much will that cost three $400,000 oh well let's take the least of the pain and just will push this through. And we sit here and negotiate and we, you know, sometimes scratch our heads thinking, wow, how are we doing this? So, you know, lawyer fees and all that stuff. So we have to make decisions based on how much we're going to pay a lawyer to fight it, or do we just pay it? So everything here is up, up to the right. We're getting taxed more by the state. We're getting taxed more by the utilities. The cost of living is through the roof. food costs are way up. And as a community, we need to step up and protect our citizens who are financially strapped right now. I remember we were raising taxes in 2008 when people were losing their jobs in their houses. I don't agree with this. We need to find a way to cut expenses to 1% And I think we should look at what it would take to do that. Let's say we're going to do it. Let's see what it would take. I requested this information and I got the numbers back. Like the school dead and I was told that we can't do what the school dead. In regards to our administration can't tell us like I asked what would it look like at 1% 2% 3% just like the superintendent dead. He said at 3% it would look like we'd have to we cut this and if it was a two we would cut this and if it's that one we could cut this so. We have lots of CIP projects going on millions of dollars okay. i've seen action happen when I was told we don't have any more money to be able to afford see a deputy town administrator, we have no money. Then I sat in another meeting and they came up with $300,000 and said, well, we couldn't use that for a deputy that was had can only be used to help by the library i'm like why. So. I I don't run I don't run this town right where we make policy. And we we get told that. And so what I was told was. If we took the proposed levy was 60 million 816 200. At 3% we would have to lower that by $244,000. That would bring the taxes down to 3%. 2%, we'd have to find 1.477 million. And we wanted to go, I'm sorry, 2% was 887,000. 1% was 1.477 million. If we went to zero, it'd be 2,000,077. Okay. So I'd like to see it. I'd like to see an exercise that would say, if we want to get to one or 2%, what would we have to cut out of this budget? That's what I would like to see. I can't go through all these numbers. I mean, I've tried for years. It is so difficult. I don't do this every day. I don't look at these numbers every day. Our finance department looks at these numbers every day. Our departments look at these numbers every day. They know what they need and they know what they can do without. So I think we have to make a statement and a stance for the residents of Middletown to give them a break this year. I think we need to see what it would look like at one or 2%.

So if we can look at that for sure. Um, but when you look at the total dollars and the increase in the total total dollars, um, I think 199,000 was the library. 421,000, I think was the town, which includes fire police, public works, you know, senior center, this town hall. Um, and then you look at, and the rest of it's a school. So, you know, those are the decisions that we'd have to make. That's really what we'd have to look at. Um, Be able to make those cuts if that's what we do. That's what we decided to do. But when you look at the total dollars and you see where those dollars are allocated based upon what's what's proposed. That's where it's at right there, you know, one point 1.3 out of the Out of that is school at 4% so I'm not picking on the school. That's, those are just, those are the numbers. The numbers don't lie. So that's decisions that we'd have to make. So we've been, the school did give us what it would look like at 1%, 2%, 3% or 4%. Thank you.

So I'd just like to add to that and say the school is one department. And I think it was a good move by the superintendent to come back because this question has been asked before. And quite simply, they're losing even at the 4% cap, we're losing teachers, right? So they could say, well, if you want to make it 3%, we're going to lose more teachers, 2%, even more teachers. The town is a series of a number of departments. I don't think it's fair to say to Sean and Mark, hey, what does it look like at 2%? It's like, where are you taking the money from? If we're deciding, then you've got to say, I want less fire trucks. I want less dump trucks. I don't want to sand the road. You've got to give them some. You can't just throw that out there. That's a crazy exercise, first of all. And second of all, the CIP budget, if you go back to times I don't know if you're here or you weren't, but when there was no increase in the budget, what happened? I'm going to use the example of the fire trucks. We just bought two new pumpers, right? We bought two. Why did we buy two? That is not the way that it should have happened. However, when the CIP budget is not funded or you don't make those purchases, you spread out the two pumpers five years apart. because that allows you some time in between as they age to not have to buy two, but we didn't do that. We didn't raise the taxes. We didn't put the money in the CIP budget. And all of a sudden, those two pumpers are on top of each other. Now, what does that do? That means not only do we have to go out and buy two, but all the time that we didn't fund the one that we should have at that right time, We are paying to maintain the one that is past its prime. And we're paying money for repairs and we're asking for extra communities to come in and help us. And it goes further than that because now the pump that was supposed to go to the reserve is getting used as a frontline. Now we don't have a reserve. it just it's the domino effect that goes and it's dump trucks it's snow plows i don't care what it is if we don't fund the cip budget then that's what happens i mean you think that no taxing it just doesn't make any sense to me we're we're on it now we are we we do have you're right we did buy some equipment but we bought it because we haven't been doing it we're finally catching up we're getting to the sweet spot where if we keep going same as the police cars to cruisers and an administrative vehicle every year. Why?

Because that's what works and we stay on top of it.

So, A, I don't agree with pushing back on the administration saying, what does it look like at 1% or 2%? And I am never going to be in favor of not funding the CIP budget. Thank you.

Mike, can I respond to that, please? Sure. Hang on, Mike. So, I appreciate your insights. I was around when we did the zero. There was a reason for that we didn't know where the money was being spent. We were asking questions about where is the money being spent and no one could answer the question. We asked about certain things and we were told one thing, and then the next meeting we're told something different. And we said well how are you going to get to where you need to be and we didn't get any answers, so the President at that time said, if you can't tell me where the money's going we're not going to give you anymore. I honestly feel that that was brought out what the deficit came out because there wasn't any extra money to go and move around. The CIP we put money into the CIP every year. same percentage as we raise in taxes. Okay, it just keeps going up and up and up. If we have an issue with the middle of the year that some pops up and says, we need to put a new sewer line in. And we have to do a fiber optic line and we have to get roads for the generator and things we just find that money somewhere. It comes out of the budget, it comes out and what means some projects not getting done or it's money we have an account somewhere that we're going to spend. That's hard to find, though. So I think that we can, as a town, look at the CIP. And I agree. I mean, part of the argument was during COVID that it was going to take us umpteen years to get these vehicles and these fire trucks. So we're like, we got to put them on order. So I get it. When I look through here and I see the lease payments that we have on equipment right now, it's a big number. We've bought a lot of equipment. And so I get it, but if you don't have money coming into your home or your bills are going up and you're not getting raises enough to cover those bills, you don't go out and buy a new car, even knowing you need to, but you're probably gonna have to pay maintenance. But maybe there'll be a better day. Maybe a year or two from now, it'll be a better economy. You'll get a raise. But it's a team effort because your wife needs to be aboard, your children need to be aboard, and everyone has to be pulling the rope from the same end. I don't want to tell people no. I don't want to say no, I don't think you need this. That's not my job. I don't run the town. I'm not here every day. For me to say you need a fire truck or you don't need a fire truck or you need a pumper or you need public works or this or that, I can't make that decision. I don't run the town. These guys run the town. Sean runs the town. He is the CEO slash president of the town. he's got big departments i think between all of them they really know what it takes to run this town they do run a really good town theresa you said middle town isn't going to be what it's going to be unless we keep spending middletown is not what it was we're not gonna we're not gonna okay let me try to rephrase that you said we got to keep paying and doing these things if we want to continue to have the nice things that middletown is and if we don't do it it won't be nice as nice right so i get that i grew up here i wanted to be as nice as it is but i also wanted to be affordable Our resident I think we're at a pretty much I can say resident versus non residents about 5050 right now. Center average. It's going in the wrong direction, why, because people can't afford to live here. This Council takes things away from people who use things to try to create more income, so they can afford their taxes, because they don't like them in their neighborhoods. People don't want affordable housing in their neighborhoods. Guys, if we don't make a change, we will be 75% non-residents and 25% residents, and over time, it'll be hard to find someone who's a resident here. We need to make big change, and we gotta start by cutting. Not keep spending and I understand the capital, I understand that we got you know that the town at one point was financially struck and Sean came in and and. got it back on track, which we're all very happy about, but the CIP program to me is kind of we put the money of allocating them to these projects, if the projects don't get done within two years, the money goes back into the general fund. Correct?

After two years, yes.

Yes. And I've been asking to see if there have been projects or if we don't, if we got to find money, we don't do projects and they get pushed off. So these are just the things that what I'm trying to get around to is, I don't want to say no to anyone, what they're asking for to be able to do their job on a daily basis. But in my job in the private sector, I got a lot of things I'd like to get and they're like, you're not getting them. The economy's not good. Our customers aren't buying. They're not that happy. We need to buckle up. And I feel like we need to buckle up now. I'm only one vote, though.

Okay. Mike.

Michael Flynn, 34 Warren Ave. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. This time of year for all of you guys, I do not envy your positions. I appreciate the time and effort you all put in. It's a tough job, and you don't make any friends, or maybe you do, but it's a tough job. Having said that, I support what Council Roberts was saying. I support what Councilor Toronto is saying. It's a bad time to decide, oops, we've got to raise taxes. Instead, we say we've got to cut somewhere. And asking a department head, I mean, we've all had jobs. I've been in positions where they said, you get nothing this year. And I said, I can't do that. But guess what? I did. Because you had to you got no raise you couldn't keep a guy or a woman who said, I need a raise and if if not i'm leaving and they left it happens, but both Council Roberts and Council Toronto are onto something you know it's you either you either. get more revenue by raising taxes or you cut your expenses to make it work and asking a department head for one, two or 3% budget. What's it look like to his or her department? Nothing wrong with that. They should be able to do that pretty easy. Thank you.

Thanks Mike. Okay. Anyone else? Uh, Sean.

City Council Chambers, I just want to clarify Dennis reference to an email I had sent the Council about our responsibilities and the administration and your responsibility on the Council. City Council Chambers, I think if if it's okay i'd like to read that email into the record, since this seems to be the basis of the discussion that's happening here in a discussion about what my role and responsibility is as the administrator versus yours as members of the town council. John Potter, Dennis had sent an email to the Council with a request. John Potter, What would the budget look like at both 2% and 1% levels, similar to the slide the school presented and my response to the Council Council and I try to cover what the responsibilities are of myself, the town council and school committee. John Potter, Dennis I appreciate the question and want to be sure the Council has the information it needs. City Council Chambers, I can provide the Council with the budgetary impact at the 1% 2% and 3% levy levy scenarios compared with the proposed levy. City Council Chambers, So, with a 0% increase the levees 58 i'll just go with the differences at a 0% scenario, we would have to reduce the budget by 2,077,308 dollars. 1% increase. We would have to reduce it $1,477,000, 2%. We'd have to reduce the budget by $887,000, 3% increase, $244,000. And then there's the proposed levy. As we recently discussed at a public town council meeting, City Council Chambers, The Charter places direction with the town policy direction with the town Council, while the town administrators responsible for preparing and administering the municipal budget. City Council Chambers, consistent with that direction if the Council wants to reduce the amount of taxes raised below the proposed levy the Council should first review the proposal and provide general policy direction on where the reduction should be made. The charter also requires the budget to remain balanced. A reduction in anticipated revenue from a lower tax levy must be matched by a corresponding reduction in appropriations, unless the Council identifies another revenue source. City Council Chambers, This is a Council level budget decision because the Council is responsible for the consolidated budget and must be determined and must determine how limited dollars are allocated among education. City Council Chambers, Public Works public safety planning building and zoning general government Community services and other municipal responsibilities. City Council Chambers, The school committee can provide an estimate of reductions, because it is responsible for a single town service education. The town council's role is broader. It must adjudicate the consolidated budget as a whole, including the relative priority of each dollar spent across all town services. Once the council provides the policy direction, I can go back into the municipal budget and prepare a detailed recommendation for reductions consistent with the council's guidance. This is particularly important because the charter gives me no authority to increase or decrease the school committee's budget request. The town council may change only the total amount of the school committee's recommended budget and the school committee would then be responsible for determining how to operate within the total amount appropriated by the council. City Council Chambers, The Charter requirements and responsibilities have not changed accordingly, I can provide the Council with a financial impact of the lower levy scenarios. City Council Chambers, But direction on whether to reduce the amount of taxes raised and where corresponding reductions and appropriation should generally come from should come from the town council before I prepare a detailed municipal reduction plan. City Council Chambers, And I just want to be clear on that, and I think you know, an important part, you know we talked about town departments. City Council Chambers, I the Charter specifically says, I, I am not the individual responsible for modifying the amount of money appropriated by the you know requested by the school committee. City Council Chambers, that's a request from the school committee to the town Council so just even in that aspect I. to to go back to the department heads and we've done this we've cut the budget we've operated with zero percent, this is a new territory for myself or any of the people that I work for work with work for I work for him to. But the Council has a responsibility to say where you would generally like to see these reductions. I I don't think that's a lot to ask for. We had this discussion at a town Council meeting. I stated it. I have followed it up in writing. I'll state it tonight. If you want to go in a different direction, that's my job I work at the pleasure of the town council you tell me where to go that's where we had again we've done it before this isn't a new exercise for me i've been here for 26 years, this is, this is a tough budget i'll tell you every year we do this it's a tough budget. But I think it. the Charter is clear that you have to provide me some guidance. I'm not the mayor. I'm an administrator. I'm not a manager. I serve at your pleasure. These are your policies. I'm not suggesting that you're going to go and do the accounting, but you need to be clear, you know, we're going to cut education. We're going to cut the library. We're going to cut public safety. I need to have an understanding of where your priorities are City Council Chambers, Before we go through this exercise and that's not only being fair to me, but for the department heads that that also work, you know, for the town. City Council Chambers, And I would say the last piece is from a transparency standpoint if we're going to start that discussion, you need to state what it is in this meeting or in some sort of memo so that. City Council Chambers, As we have these discussions residents are aware of the areas that you do want to reduce because it will be a reduction in services so. City Council Chambers, Again, I want to be respectful to the Council, I observed the Council for 26 years and hope to continue to do so. City Council Chambers, i've been here for really hard decisions harder than this, but I think when we made those decisions in the past, the Council has given me some guidance on where they wanted to head. City Council Chambers, And I would ask for that same consideration consistent with the Charter tonight if that's in fact what you want to do.

Okay. Thank you. Terry.

Thank you for this opportunity. I wish more people would take advantage of it, because it affects everybody. Terry Flynn, 34 Warren Avenue. A few thoughts came to mind. I wanted to share them with Council and with anybody else listening. The two pumpers, Councillor Welch, I understand also it's a package decision. I think at the time there was also an issue of supply chain. And there was going to be a delay, and so part of the decision was order them now, and we'll get them when we need them. So there are other variables that were part of that, as I recall, and you know, emergency services, as you were talking about the needs that that category demands. City Council Chambers, You know, maybe that's something that needs to be considered to be regionalized as well on this island, we talked about making affordable housing, perhaps. City Council Chambers, Or we heard it the other night at the priorities meeting maybe affordable housing should be an island wide conversation and this all comes back to the citizens paying taxes and having the services that they need and collaboration. And Mr. Council, she also said that it's a crazy exercise to ask for a 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% view of what those various cuts would look like. And this council for years has asked the school department to do just that. You're saying it was unreasonable for the council to ask the school department to do it, and the council shouldn't ask the town hall to do it. I think that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I think it's a responsibility for the Council to be fair and to present that and be transparent to the people that they're asking to pay for the budget and provide those views of what the cuts might look like and what services they would do without at each level to see what's okay with the citizens. City Council Chambers, Many accounts, I feel, in the budget have a built in buffer, and I think that this exercise might reveal that and we could give the citizens a break. City Council Chambers, At least show the citizens, if only for optics that you're you're trying that that that it's worth a try it's additional information to make a decision on you might end up in the same place, but that's Okay, you tried and you tried for those you're representing. And even if you don't find that 800,000 or a million or whatever the sweet spot is for the percentages, at least find a little. A little bit will make a big difference for a lot of people. It is time to be creative in reducing expenditures instead of being creative in going into debt. PB, Lupita D Montoya, Middletown debt and 2023 if I recall these around numbers was about $20 million, it is three years later and Middletown debt is over $200 million that's a tenfold increase that's a problem. Councillor Welch, you were kind of correct when you said that the government is a business. Really, it's more like a house because we keep hearing two different things. Oh, the government's like a business. We're running this like a business. And then you're in government is not a business at all because of all the exceptions and nuances of being a municipality. It's really like a house. We all have budgets. We all end up at a bottom line that we can't afford and we all have to cut. So why can't we just try a 2% across the board? Everybody loses 2%. Tell us what services we may not get in that view. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Terry. Yeah, Tom, go ahead.

Thank you. I just want to be clear. what was just said that whatever the number was, $30 million, however many years ago, and now we're at 200 plus million dollars in debt. Well, to be fair, you need to say that's because we're building a new school. and that a lot of that money is reimbursable so just to say that we're wildly spending and now that we're over 200 million dollars is not a fair statement and i also will push back on what you said about the fire department pumpers it is absolutely true that we did not buy the pumper when we should have and that we got jammed up and then it was compounded by the fact that it was coveted And that's what happened, you can go back and look and then we sat on it and we didn't do it, it caused a huge problem, so it certainly was. bumped up on top of each other, because we did not buy them and I so you're asking for. And the town administrator is asking for the Council to decide what our direction is what do we want to do well i'm just saying I don't know if we're going to how we're going to decide this. When Sean came here, we all heard the story 100 times right where what what. The finances were of the town at that time. In every angle that you look at our bond rating if you look at our funding of our pension liabilities. Every year we go along. I wish he would do my budget at home. I honestly do. And everything that comes out of there, we never come back and say, hey, you know, I told you guys we were going to do this, but this is what happened. I don't see that. I look at Mark Tangway. When he comes up here and tells me something, I'm good. He is always on the money. They put all the time in. And one person up here, 3.2%, $268 for the average person, I'm in.

Thank you.

Okay. Anybody else in the Teresa?

I just wanted to Sean made a comment before and any when he was talking about the lifeguard and the beaches minimum wage went up again a dollar an hour. It's going to go up again in January. So if we don't budget for that accordingly, and for example, lifeguards, you can't hire them unless you're paying them a reasonable wage to be competitive to other beaches. So if we don't do that, then we're jeopardizing safety of our residents and anybody who steps foot on that beach. So though it's And it's going to be about 80 cents a day. Minimum wage is going up. I understand you didn't get a raise. I didn't get a raise either. I work two jobs. I own a business and I still work a second job. You think I like that at my age? Nope, not one little bit. But that's what I have to do to make ends meet. And it's not fun. But the point is that if minimum wage keeps going up, we have no control over that. We have no choice but to keep our employees competitive. So to cut salaries because, well, it looks good on paper, isn't going to give us quality employees, whether it's police, fire, teachers, public works, or town employees. You can't raise the rate of $17 an hour to a teenage kid being a lifeguard at Third Beach or Second Beach, and then turn around and say, you're not gonna raise somebody who's got credentials and professionals and they've been with us for 20 years. It just doesn't work that way. You have to pay for quality. And we are a quality town. We have to sustain that. I'm not jumping up and down. As I said, I have paid taxes as a resident and I pay taxes as a business owner. And I keep watching my taxes go up every year. And I'm on well and septic, by the way. So I have to worry about those expenses above and beyond on the east side. And we talk about fire trucks and pumpers. Without those new pumpers, my house could burn down. My school could burn down because we didn't get a vehicle.

I'll use my I thought I was had a big enough mouth.

Sorry. Yes, thank you. I'm sorry. So I just think it's important that there's there's all of these factors here. It's not just one budget of salary. I can stand here right now as a school committee member for 24 years. I'm going on my 20 finishing my 24th year this year. I've sat through 24 budgets. Let me tell you, this is nothing new. We always sit here and say, there's the budgets are tight. We always sit there and say, it's a challenge this year. It's a challenge next year. It's a challenge. It's hard work. It's hard. Not one department head gets up here and says, oh, I'm just going to ask for 4% because it's frivolous and they're all the I wants. No, every single department head gets up here and stands here and presents to the town council and the citizens of this town with needs, necessities, no fluff and stuff ever, ever. Not in years. I don't know what happened before my time on school committee or at the very beginning of the years, things were different in the school departments, but that's changed a long time ago. And I can guarantee you before when the other superintendent was here, we never stood up here for fluff and stuff. Our current superintendent would never stand up and just say, oh yeah, we're just going to keep all these teachers on because we cut 20 positions. That's it. That's a lot of people.

Isn't that some of that due to population decline in the schools? That's what we were told at the Saturday budget meeting. So when you keep saying 20 positions are cut, I don't think it was 20 at that meeting. We had to restructure.

Yes, as enrollment has changed. Correct.

We're not cutting for budget. We're cut because some of that, we were told here at the Saturday Budget Meeting, that half of the positions were cut because the population decreased in our schools.

And so we cut, but we also cut problems. We have to be clear about that. We cut French. Yes. Okay. So we had to cut programs as well. So I'm not suggesting, I know I wasn't here that day, but I'm not suggesting that some retirements we didn't replace. So yes, that can happen as the time changes. But I also can tell you that we've had to cut programs. And so it's something that we have to pick and choose based on declining enrollment. We had to cut certain programs like that. So that is true, but it's still cutting programs. So I'm just saying that if a minimum wage goes up, a dollar an hour, not a dollar a day, a dollar an hour, and we're asking taxpayers to pay less than a dollar a day. I'm sorry, I think that in order to keep the public safety and health of this community, we have to pay for what is appropriate. And I agree we need to fight with the state more about money, but I have to say that we need to understand that less than a dollar a day, right now, during this time, we have no choice when minimum wage went up. A dollar last year, a dollar this year, and a dollar again in January. That's $3 in three years, an hour. How can you not expect to have to generate revenue to pay those salaries? So I'm just saying, you can't cut and cut and cut and cut and we won't have the quality and we won't have the staff. I don't want my house to burn down because we didn't get two pumper trucks. Right? Tom's in the same boat I am. We're all unwell and we don't have city water and we don't have fire hydrants down our streets. So I think it's important that has to be looked at too. It's not just about let's cut, cut, cut to save pennies. We have to be fiscally responsible. And I believe that Sean has dissected and Mark has dissected every single penny in this town. And I don't believe one penny of this town is being spent frivolously. Because to me, that would be an insult to our town administrator, our superintendent, our police chief, our fire chief, our public works director. All of those positions do due diligence with their budgets, and they present very fiscal responsibility, responsible budgets, in my opinion.

I don't think anyone said frivolous spending is going on. I just think we have to make some tough decisions.

But you voted on the contracts, as Paul said. I voted on two contracts. But those contracts just didn't get made in the past two years. These contracts are three-year contracts.

I understand that.

You can't go back and cut those salaries when those dollars have already been committed to the unions. And that's part of, we have unions. So we can't change that. And so if you want to say, okay, we've got contracts coming up this year, and then slash those contracts You lose people, you lose quality. And I think that just, you know, we need to be very careful as a town.

Well, thank you, Teresa. And as we all know, some of the differences between private and new municipalities is a lot of private industries aren't unionized. So, I mean, that's a whole different ballgame. I'm not saying there's not opportunities when that happens, but like when Dennis said earlier, you know, it's... You know, we do, we look at comparables. And we're not at the top, but we have to be competitive to be able to retain people. And that's, and that's what's happening.

And I haven't had a raise in three years either, which is why I go and work a second job.

And so, but it's not, it's not just that it's, it's the healthcare is going up 12, 13%. It's. um it's the state digging on the towns with you know the middle town again is losing 260 000 this year again in reduction in state aid it's it's they're reaching into the pockets down at the beach for parking fees a few years ago it was building uh inspector fees or building some permit fees um it's uh you know uh transportation costs are going up 12 percent You know, all the macro issues right now, you know, it's tough to predict those. I mean, right now, because of what's going on in the Middle East, you know, you see what's happening with the gas and the oil. Right. I mean, you know, it's scary. So, look, nobody wants to raise taxes. Nobody wants to raise taxes. Nobody wants to do it. Not one of us want to do it. Not one person in the room wants it to happen. But yes, we provide services so and contractually in contractually we're bound by some of these things and getting back to what I was said about what Dennis was saying earlier was it's true. You know it's Okay, so you get to a point where you're just about an agreement, a reasonable fair agreement with a Union. And then they might want something else or something else pops up and, oh, by the way, we want this. And if we don't get this, we're just going to go to arbitration. Like Dennis says, that's another $300,000 to $400,000. So what do we do? You settle. because it's less to settle than it is to go pay an arbitrator that might give it to him anyway. So now you're going to give it to him and pay an arbitrator.

But then you also get other things, so you can pull things out of the contracts, and long-term you can get some good stuff.

But having said that, when you break it down right now, if it stays where it's at, it's $67 an increase a quarter. for the average for the average not for everybody for the average um that works for some it doesn't work for others i get that um but um you know going back to the state it's just it's a combination of of everybody jockeying for dollars and that's that's the decisions we hard decisions we have to make it's you know we got a new school do we not fund it right

I just want to say about the health care. I don't have health care because I own my own business. This year, my Blue Cross went up to $1,950 for my daughter and I. $1,950 that I have to pay out of my pocket every month. Every month. Because I am a private.

Now you think about that. My health care costs went up through the roof, too, and it doesn't pay for anything, Teresa. I don't know what to tell you about that.

I mean, I get bills sitting up like that. So I'm just saying that. What I'm saying is. In the union, he's over her time.

Actually, I understand the president. You're going to ask to understand. You just can't stop learning.

When the union said to me, we have, we are in the trust. So that does help. But in the private sector, it's, it's, you know, it's astronomical. So listen, I'm not jumping up and down either for 80 cents a day. And I forgot what the $500 and $600 for my business. And that's what, depending on that's the average business. But at the same time, I don't want to go without services in my life. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. The other thing, you know, Dennis, you brought up about capital improvements. And, you know, that's a double-edged sword for me because, you know, all we'd be doing was deferring maintenance, you know, and something that's absolutely necessary. We're not just putting things out there just because we don't need, you know, it'd be nice to do. We're putting them out there because they have to be done. And if we don't do them now, You know, that deferred maintenance cost is going to be who knows what it would be as we see things continue to increase. So are we perfect? No, we're not. Have we made some tough decisions? Generals, general generational decisions? Yes, we have. And we have to do that to set the town up down the road. When I look back and we gave zero three years in a row. you learn from those things. Maybe it should have been a one. Maybe it should have been a one and a half. I don't know. At the time, it was the right thing to do. When you look back, you learn. And again, every budget's not easy. As you stated, every budget's difficult, but all the combination of things between what the state's digging into the town's wallet and revenues and The increases in inflation it's it's not easy because they're trying to balance that it's trying to create that balance of affordability, which is increasingly difficult to do. But you have to provide services in and and and and and there's been recommendations in the past from you Dennis that i'm not picking on you that we cannot create structural deficits.

Well, I know you you you bleed that for sure.

I get it. You know what I mean?

Sometimes, sometimes. have an organization a group that covet hits right and all sudden you need to spend money on something immediately to hire some people to do something right we we had to get an after-school program because our kids needed to get back on track right so we were fortunate that we were able to use the arpa money to create to support that program Well, that ARPA money wasn't guaranteed. It was going away. In fact, a lot of it went to bail out the school. So I get that. But sometimes you've got to go into that line of credit and put it down and hope that two years from now you can get off of that. We have millions of dollars that sit in accounts waiting to be spent. We allocate it to certain projects. All the projects don't get done. So that money moves around. So all I'm asking for is an exercise. We do this in my company will say, Hey, we can only do 1% this year. Come back to me and tell me what, what, how that's going to affect you. Okay. So that's, that's all I'm asking for is an exercise to look at that. And if he needs direction, I want to fund the school. I want to fund the library. I want to fund civic appropriations.

Those would be my top three.

Okay, so that leaves about $400,000 if that's your top three. Because the rest of the other $421,000 is to run the police, the fire, or the increase. I shouldn't say not to run. The increase in the police, fire, public works, town hall, senior budget. So there's five. I think I got all the departments. That's five departments that, well, not the ones included in town hall. I'm just using town hall as one big department. So that's what would be left. That's your top three. So those are decisions that you would have to make. So, okay. Hey, it's really good discussion. I mean, you know, we'll, we'll figure it out. How we get there. We don't know, but, uh, we will figure it out.

So anyone else in the audience like to say anything about our recommendations, recommendations for the budget?

The counselors. Sure. What do you got?

They heard at me. So I have to say something. You don't have to say anything. I was not going to. This may hurt some people up here, but it is what it is. I'm going to go back to your 0% comments. Cost of doing business and the maintenance of those contracts and the required payments had to go out. Didn't get paid in those years. They got deferred. They got deferred to now. those contracts that had increases in salaries were paid this year they're being paid down that's why the tax increase is high when you chose when previous councils chose not to replace cruisers and pumpers and equipment you deferred that cost to now that's why you're in a pickle So that 0% hurts because you had contractual obligations that had to be paid for. I would tell you probably the 1% increase across the board in the budget is those contractual obligations, right out of the gate. Just taking a swing at that, by the way, because of the contracts that we've agreed to. And there's a reason for that, folks, because wages have to stay on par for the municipal employees to provide you services. When somebody leaves their town position, The cost is not to the bottom line, the cost is in now the recruitment training and getting that person efficient to do their job. you're six months behind there's a cost to that it's not hard dollars it's a cost of the lack of service that you demand that you were expecting. that's just deferred costs, the future, so why do we have to continue to keep wages on par, so we don't have turnover. That's not an easy task, not an easy task at all. Capital improvement programs. I've been doing budgets for 25, almost 30 years now. There is an operational impact on every single capital project. Is it accounted for as a budgeted line item? No, it's an expectation. Trucks break down, they gotta get fixed. buildings fall apart they gotta get fixed now luckily enough our administration and our finance department based upon policy that we set maintained a pretty robust fund balance to cover that on a rainy day what is our fund balance policies at 16 percent

Minimum eight, maximum 16, and we're a little over 16. But were you going to use four point something million to pay for the school, the first wave of school debt so that that gets reimbursed? That'll come out of the general fund and that'll get reimbursed once we start. The general fund will be replenished once we start getting the reimbursements.

Right. But there's a reason why I brought this up, because that's good accounting. so those first payments are going to be paid with the overage that we set aside on policy so it doesn't hit the tax but we're sitting up here sparring over things and I get it we need to take a hard look at where we're spending money but again I I would say that we as a council should be forcing the people up in Providence to give us our due respect back The funding formula for schools in the state of Rhode Island is a laughable joke. Laughable. For a state that says education for all, except for you down there, which you can generate a lot of tax revenue, that ain't education for all. They keep cutting, and it's death by a thousand cuts from them up there. Let me bring up something else that nobody wants to talk about.

You're on a roll. Keep going.

I'm going to. what's the effective tax rate for a hotel night stay six percent what do we get back from a hotel night stay one percent if we're lucky where does the rest of that money go all those services are driven by us in town those business owners and those tourists that come here but five percent of that goes to other communities across the state that have zero tourism that's revenue that's taken out of our pockets for a service that we provide because we live in a lovely area it's a damn shame it's a damn shame and we should be holding Providence accountable for that we should be at the state house saying you know what you get one percent we get five percent of hotel tax because we're taking our resources we're taking our infrastructure we're providing the service but we're not seeing the benefit from it That's where this is upside down. I could fund those schools all day long. I could fund every single department with that 5% from hotel tax year over year. I could do all the capital projects I need. No, we're being robbed. The state is the biggest pickpocket I've ever seen. They got nothing on New Orleans. No offense, New Orleans, but I know a lot of people that have got their walls stolen walking up Bourbon Street. We're walking down Bourbon Street and Providence has got their hand in our pocket. It drives me bananas. And luckily we have a town administrator who had the forethought to go up there and say, you know what? We need to levy 1% this year and give that directly back to us. Why do we gotta fight for that? It's ridiculous at this point. We deferred the cost of certain items to do what we thought was the right thing at the time. We made generational mistakes. we're paying for those mistakes now we're thinking long term about the town the infrastructure the schools and everything else and doing all the right things it's going to cost us a little bit of money but we're not getting the revenue that we do we're not and I think we've done a hell of a good job over the last few years having these conversations thinking about where we need to go and I wouldn't change any of my decisions and you could put that in the paper thank you

Because I want to stand up and clap Chris I do that was awesome still nice job.

you're not wrong, so I just want to add a couple of points you speak into the mic okay just I don't have the um um. Nancy E. emotional kind of passion passion, yes, yes, yes, I try to look at things on very logically, but there, there are just two points that I would like to make one that hasn't been mentioned at all, is the concept of inflation. um if you if you buy something if you don't buy something this year and you wait till next year or you wait till the year after it's going to cost you a lot more okay so that's just a small point um the other thing is i do want to go back to what sean has said If we're going to cut things, we have to do it. We have to up here say, you do it. You do that, Sean. You make that cut. You do that. You do that. And I think for us to be up here and be complaining about all kinds of things when the fact is we're not doing our job by saying you have to cut this, you have to cut that. So those are the two things that I want to say. That's it.

Well, okay. Dennis?

Mrs. Vaughn, again, I look at Sean, Mark, and these guys, and they run this town every day. I'm not here every day. We're not here all day, every day. that's where I have a little just issue, how do I go about that, you know and prioritizing what the town needs, you know if we have to pick projects, you know I don't think i'm the person that should be picking those projects. When these people run the business every day that's just where I get a little stuck so that's I guess that's government right, so they want to put it on us. So we got to go through it line item by line item and come back. and Based on Sean's email because I requested this at 1% I have this same email Sean thanks for reading it. If we go to 3% we have to find $244,000. We increase the road paving this year. from 600,000 to 1.3 million. So right there, if we said, no, we're not going to put the money in the road over there. We're going to take that money and lower taxes. We do that, right? Do that.

Yeah, we can do. We're the ones that... I don't want to say we can do what we want. We're going to do what is right and makes sense.

If we were looking for it, if I had to come up with something just off my cuff right now, is that the right thing to do? I don't know. parking recreational capital fund if you go into the cip and you look at the projects that are going to be done today or this year they're going to be approved at the end of the year we'll have 873 000 in that account at the end of next year that'll be the beginning balance for the next year 2028. it's 873 000 could we use some of that money

So that's non-tax generated revenue out of that fund. You could use it, but again, you're creating a structural deficit.

Why?

It's $873,000.

Where are you going to get that money now?

If you're moving it to something to reduce taxes.

Just the beginning balance, if we went in, I'm not saying take the whole thing.

It doesn't matter whether you take the whole thing or you take $1. You create a structural deficit, and that's not what we do up here. Well, on that particular fund, that's a bad example.

that's my opinion i just think there's those those are revenue dollars sitting in there and hopefully in a year from now or two years from now we'll be in a better position that we can raise taxes or we go to to you know whatever it could be i'm just looking i i don't i don't think we're i think we've made some really great investments okay so i'm not i'm not going against i'm not saying we haven't done what we need to do what i'm saying is i think we need to give the tax people tax payers a break there's a lot of expensive things going on and you know people say well it's only a dollar a day that's just the increase how many dollars are they already paying How many dollars are they paying in gas? How many dollars are they paying in incremental taxes? How many just, it adds up, it adds up and adds up. And then all of a sudden it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. And we're seeing people in the middle class being forced out of this town. There's a wave going across our town of non-residents moving into our community because our residents are selling. They're gonna go to Florida. They're waving down there to say, Hey, we're not gonna have any property tax. That's gonna take some people. And there were probably people up here who would say, fine, let them go. But I'd like to see 80% residents, people who live here full time. So that's what I'm saying. I could look through this book. There's a number of things. Can we fill the hole today? take some of this move it over there for now structural deficit I don't agree 100% with that Paul I think there's ways around that um again programs can come and go if also in two years you know that program's not the right program any longer fine then that's out you cut it if we can't afford it any longer you cut it but if it's a mission critical service to offer to the town then obviously we're gonna we're gonna keep it yeah and we might have to raise taxes to keep it all i'd like to try to get back to is we've really hit the residents hard over the last several years we hit the non-residents really hard and again i'm sure there's people up here who don't care that they don't care about those 50 of the people that are residents here non-residents But i'm just saying those are just off the top of my cuff looking at this, could we use those funds, those are millions of dollars that are going to be left over after this year in the CIP that we can maybe move over.

So. So I want to go back to the structural deficit because I just want to make sure we're clear that just based on the example you gave, there are probably other ways to do certain things, but on the example that you gave, that creates a structural deficit. And then you have to scramble next year to find that money to plug the hole in the budget. And we don't make decisions like that. so we have never made decisions like that we're not going to i'm i'm one vote i'm not going to make a decision like that as far as affordability i don't disagree with a lot of things you're saying um but a lot of it has to do with the non-residents who come here and and have discovered this beautiful place and pay and we're paying crazy money for for property um and driving up the assessments So a lot of it's an assessment issue. I'm not saying there isn't budget opportunities because there always is. But a lot of times it's a beautiful place we live and the assessments property values have now, property sales have slowed down. But in the past five, four to six years, five, six years ago, it was through the roof and increasing. So I'm not passing the buck, but those are just facts. So whether it was people coming in in short-term rentals, and buying up as investors and paying crazy prices. But we can't go backwards. We have to go forward. This is what we have in front of us tonight. These are decisions we have to make. Sean, I would like to see what we could do. There's no harm in the exercise. You guys can, and if we don't look at it, I think we're negligent not looking at what would be a 1%, a 2%, or a 3%. I know you gave us total dollars.

And I would ask, so at least Dennis said he would fund the school, the library, and civic appropriations. So I would balance coming to 1 or 2% based on the remaining departments or? Well, it's 421,000 left over. That's it. I just, the council. I would like to see, that's what I would like to see though, is the council. I work, my work is based on four votes of the majority. So I would like to, or I might expect. Are you asking me for the whole council to decide that?

You, I would think that you would have to have that discussion and we'll have it right now, would you like to see it. 123% what it would look like.

I think I'd like to see 2% i'd be happy with that.

I think what Sean is asking is for. some general direction from the council as to where those cuts would come from. Because that was the whole point of his email and I think his description of what the responsibility is.

Understood, but we can make a better decision if we see what it would look like at those percentages.

I think it was clear in what I've been communicating to you. Your responsibility... I know what my responsibility is.

You don't have to repeat what my responsibility is. I think I know what it is.

then I would simply cut the schools. Okay. Okay. I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. I need some help. You know, again, because I don't, Dennis is saying one thing, and I don't know what the other six of you want. So I would just need some clarification. I'm not trying to be fresh. I know you're not. But I guess just arbitrarily throwing a number out is very difficult for myself and the staff. Understood. Golly.

yeah and i want to be clear like i'm not complaining up here i and i've talked to sean today about this to say i i'm willing to come in next week take time out of my job and come in and sit down and go through the budget and see where we could if we can if we can't then fine that's it but You know, I'm not, I'm not shying away from the responsibility up here. I just as a whole. I think our town needs to look a little harder at this and do what we can for our residents and you can have fun to your breath. All you want comes from like, you've been doing this entire meeting when someone else speaks, but that shouldn't be allowed. So I am willing to come in this week and meet with Sean, the administration, the finance team, whatever it takes to get through this budget to see if there's some way we can get down to 2%. That's all I'm asking. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Charlie, Tom.

Oh, can I just, again, so Charlie said 2%, but I would just ask for the follow on what areas we're gonna get there in a minute. Okay, yeah.

Thank you. I was gonna say, I mean, Dennis has laid it out where he would want to see the percentages come from. And I think we have to be on board in order to tell them to do it. Okay. yeah that's what i'm going to ask next understood okay who's on board and who's not on board because i'm on board i just want to see what the you're not what the dollars would be okay are you on board what it would look like one two three percent yes but you're not saying from where exactly you're just saying across the board and he's asking for direction that's what i don't understand dennis is given direction But nobody else has.

I know what the school would look like at 1, 2, 3%. We have that right here.

Understood. Right here. I know. I know. I understand now.

Yep.

so why can't the town provide something like that because there's a bunch of different departments are you just saying every department we've done it before okay i'm just asking the question i didn't see it before i wasn't i don't know what the struggle is here because he's asking for direction are you saying one can you or can you not provide what it looks like at one two three percent what are we cutting what are you cutting he's looking to cut well we take recommendations from sean on everything right

Oh okay he's asking for our record okay that's right. Okay, we have to tell him what to cut Okay, I think, at a minimum, I think the minimum if I could ask one thing so when I get annoyed but right now I gotta be honest with you, one thing this isn't the way it's going in the past and all of a sudden. This is the way you guys want it to go and if that's where you want it to go that's fine we'll go that way, but that's not what we've done in the past. I don't understand. Came back and said, it's very simple, Tom. Came back and said, just like the school has, this is what it would look like. Correct. No, no. Overall, this is what it would look like. One, two, three percent. I'm not saying by department. I'm looking at dollars. And then he needs to figure that out.

No, that's not his job. That's what he's saying.

Okay, okay, Barbara. It's not, it is his job. What do you guys want to do? Because I'm not going to sit here and argue about it all night. We've done it in the past. You guys want to make a spectacle of it? Make it. What do you want to do?

of a spectacle it is saying i'm okay then that's and i already said that you wanted to listen do you want to yell at me well no because you know what when we want to play your way it's bad and guess what i don't speak up a lot but i'm speaking up now i trust that man i do too okay it's not about trust peter and i've only been on scouts my second term but we've heard complaints you don't maintain buildings you don't maintain roads you don't do this They're consolidating the services of the schools. That's a bump. They're looking at future contracts, eliminating certain benefits going forward. They're doing a lot to work on. We keep putting crap on their plate and expecting they're just going to do it.

there one on paper happens what do we want to do if we want to cut what do we want to cut okay so what I'm asking is what I'm asking is Peter Sean said earlier they would have to cut this mountain dollars to be at this percent this amount in dollars to be at two percent and this amount in dollars at three percent that's all I'm asking for I don't understand what the big deal is then we can make decisions let's see it on paper I don't have it on paper in front of me I heard him say it earlier That's all I'm looking for. And if you don't want to do that, that's fine. Then we'll vote. And if the vote is no, we're not doing that, then we're not doing that. But we have to make an attempt. And if you're okay with it, then you're okay with what's proposed. I'm fine with that.

That's your prerogative. I don't know. I don't want to say it for the 17th time the same way, but what I don't understand is we know what the numbers are 1%, 2%, 3% down, right?

I don't know that. He said it. I don't have it in front of me. Do you have it in front of you?

Is that all you want?

That's all I'm asking for. Oh, I thought you wanted to know where, how. Let me explain it again. I'm just looking for the total dollar amount at 1%, 2%, 3%. Okay. Yep. Understood. And then we can figure out.

That is in an email that we all got. Then we can figure out. Okay. Excellent. I'm okay with that.

Listen, I don't need a comment from you from out there without addressing the council properly, okay? I'm in agreement with that. All right. That's fine, then. Let's have it. Yes.

At 3%, we would have to just jot this down real quick. All right? Because I have that email. I have that email here. I brought that this evening as well. So if you were to lower it to 3%, it'd be $244,503. So we'd have to find that much money to go to 3%. If we're going to go to 2%, we would have to find $887,066. If we went to 1%, it'd be 1.477 million. I'm not even going to say zero because we're never going to do zero.

Those are the numbers. If we can find...

$887,000 or $888,000, we would be able to only raise the taxes at 2% for the residents of Middletown. We could find we could find that's and if he needs help trying to find those, like I said, I just quickly went through and looked at some of these numbers, but I think his departments were no best. He would know best. That's what I haven't I I would go to my managers and say, Hey, This is our goal. We want to get to 2%. What can you cut? What can you put off for a year and see what they come back with? I think we have an obligation to the library because we're building a new library and they're hiding this, these personnel, and we want to come out with, you know, open with a roar, I would say, you know, and, and see how it goes. And who knows if the library, if they don't take advantage of it and the programs all aren't going to be attended, maybe the following year, it might come down a little bit, a number of employees. I don't know, but in the school, I think our kids are on the right track. i'm bummed that we don't have the beyond the bell program after school during the school year i'm excited that we were able to keep it for the summer i think we have some really great stuff going at the school because that's and that's why i'd love to fund that i'd love to fund the library and civic appropriation i know we help with the civic appropriation in a lot of different ways but when i sit through those civic appropriation meetings and we give folks dollars 5,000, 10,000, I always get the feeling it's not enough. So I just feel that I wouldn't want to cut that. That's the same as it was last year. So I just think there's no increase there already. So those are the reasons why I chose those three groups. Besides that, Sean runs the town. That's why I would think it would be better for him to come to us and say, hey, guys, if you want 2%, I met with my managers, and these are the things that we would, what we do any up. That's all.

Okay. This is Flynn.

Thank you. I have a question. Terry Flynn, 34 Warren Avenue. Could I have the charter passage that is being quoted here that has the council directing the town administrator on the actual line items of reduction? You know, the council's job, I was always under the impression, is policy. That kind of calculation City Council Chambers, It seems to me would would be something that the the town administrator should do we have I think middle town has the highest paid town administrator in the state of Rhode island and those are. City Council Chambers, Those are mechanics that I don't think belong on the shoulders of the Council, so I just would like to know the the Charter passage that's being followed here. City Council Chambers, If possible.

City Council Chambers, I don't have it right now, Terry.

I believe it's been referenced.

I'm sure somebody can get your copy. It's probably online. Matter of fact, I have a copy of my book.

I don't have my book. Oh, I can access the charter, but I hope you're not asking a resident to read the whole thing to find that particular one that's directing this conversation.

Well, Sean did not say that it's the council's job to go line by line. Sean asked for some general direction as to the areas of the budget. That the Council from a policy standpoint wanted to cut if the increase were to come down from what's being proposed so.

Would the policy, thereby be here's the policy, nothing from library nothing from school nothing from civic appropriation and now make a recommendation is that fair to say.

I'm not going to get involved in any and I just don't understand administration, but that's that's if you can help me understand what was said yeah I just don't understand if you can help me job to at the end of the day, to approve the budget.

And that's recommended recommended or negotiated so I just wasn't understanding where this was coming from I wouldn't mind doing a getting a direction on where that is outlined.

Thank you, though it's section to eight of the town charter town budget expenditures prior to adoption of annual budget and loans and anticipation of tax revenues fiscal year defined. upon receipt of the consolidated town and school committee budget from the town administrator the town council shall the town council shall give to said budget two preliminary readings coincident with such consideration it shall set dates for two successive public hearings regarding the budget One hearing to follow the first reading and one to follow the second reading. Notice of the time and place of said hearing shall be posted in three or more public places in the town and advertised in at least one newspaper of local circulation at least 10 days in advance of each hearing. The council shall take final action on the consolidated budget following the second hearing before the start of the next fiscal year, which shall begin the first day of each July unless and until change by ordinance. The town council can change only the total amount of the school committee's recommended budget. the town council can increase the total amount of either part of the consolidated budget as presented by the town administrator, only if it makes provisions for increasing anticipated revenue to match increases in expenditures in the budget. In the event that the annual budget has not been finally enacted by the town council at the start of the fiscal year, for whatever reason, the town council may authorize expenditures by town departments and agencies not to exceed the rate of expenditures for a comparable month of the preceding year. Such authorization shall be valid For no more than 30 days without renewal by the Council, the Council may negotiate loans and anticipation of tax revenues repayable and no more than 12 months time in order to provide funds to cover such expenditures so it's it's section 208.

Okay, thank you. So if you'd like to reference section to await you go you won't have to read the whole charter. Chris.

Christopher Rowe, 177 Chases Lane. I'd like to say thank you to you, Paul, and Dennis, and Charlie, for bringing up about this whole thing about differences and looking at potential decreases, 2%, 3%, 4%. I looked at what my pay raise is going to be this year. On July 1st, I get a dollar an hour raise. It comes out to 3.5%. City employees some city employees might be getting a 6% increase twice almost twice what mine is I had when I turned 65 this year. I got a almost 350% increase in my health costs. As far as the across the board, you know what's being asked and being brought up and saying well what exactly do you want to do you want. sean to be directed to cut well you gave your answer paul gave an answer across the board that means everything so that is an answer that's what he wants to be looked at across the board the thing that needs to be remembered and looked at though is by department you know it's not your jobs to micromanage every department and everything that should be cut for this program or that program within a department you asking to look for a percentages, as mentioned, 2%, 3%, 4%. But then when it's looked at, maybe one department ends up at 4%. A different department ends up at 3.5. A third one ends up at 3. Maybe one of them doesn't get cut at all. But by having that across the board, every department percentages it gives you the ability to look at different departments individually and maybe have a sliding scale instead of saying it's got to be straight across the board everybody thank you thanks Chris uh Billy I have a question for you for the superintendent yeah please yeah I don't think a resident could hear your answer from back there

So, transportation costs. Where are we with those? I know there's a 12% increase, but I know there's something in motion as well, looking at bus routes.

Or in the early stages.

Potential savings there.

we're in the early stages of an audit um mr collins just had a first meeting with the company and we're looking at identifying efficiencies in the bus routes so we are setting up a meeting i think soon but i don't have any any outcome to that yet okay what about the um um technology director We do not have one yet.

I know. So is that part of this budget or not? We're looking, we're working on that. So not a hundred percent. What does that mean? We kind of want to put you on the spot, but we're going to go hot on the budget. So let's talk about it. And so it's either in the budget or it's not. If it's not in the budget, what's your plan to, if you do, you know, I know you're faced with a loss of deans and potentially and, you know, behavioral specialists and other things. So, you know, I know you're probably looking to put your, where you're going to get the best bang for your buck. But I don't know how you run technology without a technology director. That's a good question. Or is the town working together to do kind of,

We've created some synergies. We've talked about that as well. So we have a couple cases right now, one in particular. I'd rather not to go into detail about special education stuff just because some of it's identifiable because it's pretty specific.

Okay.

But we are looking at possible opportunities to save money there. And before it's finalized, I don't really want to comment on it. It's okay with you. Which may realize some savings that we can use for what you mentioned.

Okay. Okay. Those are my two questions. When will you know about the transportation?

Hard with the timeline, I'm not sure, to be honest with you. So like I said, Mr. Collins reached out today about meeting with him, so we haven't set the meeting yet, but sooner than later. Okay. Sounds like we need to put a rush on that.

yeah so and look um everyone the the the budget is we're on we're on track to have a second public hearing next wednesday the 27th and that doesn't mean we have to approve the budget that day Don't mean that if we're not in agreement, then we'll, we'll keep going until we can get an agreement and, or, you know, a majority that wants to approve a budget. So we do it early. So we have built in a little time buffer, um, to see if we can't, uh, can't flush out what we need to flush out or agree upon what we agree upon.

Okay.

So I don't get a little testy and I'll get a little pissy, but that's just the way it goes. Sometimes we all get passionate about what we think and. and um no disrespect meant to anybody it's just out of the process the way i see it not make saying it makes it right but makes it exciting okay thank you yes mr flynn like plan 34 warren ave that paragraph that sean quoted doesn't address how the budget gets cut it addresses how

It only addresses how you can increase parts of the budget line items, it does not say anything about how the Council is supposed to say. We want to cut like you're suggesting 1% of let's say it's leave the school out of it just the department's budget, it does not address that the same.

So Mike after some of my my. My excitedness I was thinking, trying to think back to previous Councils and as I've said here, there was Councils that have made recommendations that I would only support this budget if we added this or we reduce this so that does happen.

City Council Chambers, I and I, I think you should do that, I think you, you should recommend what does a 1% across the board or 2% or pick a number look like to all the departments of the town, excluding perhaps the school because you really all you can tell them is. An amount to cut, right? You can't line item cut.

So I could just say, hey, you know, it's not going to be 4%. It's going to be 3% or 3.5%, whatever it is.

Plus the school already took out $800,000 for whatever reason. They've already come down a little bit. Right. So maybe that's not a fair thing. But the town budget, what it looks like at each percentage, doesn't seem like a bad ask.

Thank you.

Thanks. Okay. Any other one else like to comment on the budget? Public hearing? Thank you for the reminder. Okay. So, again, we will have the second one next Wednesday at 6 o'clock.

The public hearing will remain open. Motion to receive the said ordinance on its first reading.

Second.

All in favor? Aye.

Okay, I got a reading number two.

an ordinance of the town of middletown first reading on into the. An ordinance amendment to the town code of town middle town title three chapter 36 and title fee schedule sex and age refuse and recycling department to use a fee. motion receive said ordinance on its first reading second, and this is the potential potential increase in the user fee that was proposed by the time administrator Okay, so we have to read that in as well. have a motion to second all in favor aye and number three in order to the town of middletown first reading odds remember the town code or the title middletown title three chapter 36 entitled fee schedule d section d parks and recreation one beach parking fees motion to receive said ordinance on its first reading and and so this was the proposed um um parking fees um uh for the beach We have a motion to second. All in favor? Aye.

Okay. Motion adjourned.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Okay.

We'll see you next Wednesday.