Planning Board - Regular Meeting

November 25th zoning board of review meeting to order. First order business is our roll call. Thomas Heeney present. Rick Lombardi present. Christopher Row present. Anton Vos present. Rebecca Rogers here. Alicia Reyes absent. Judith Rosenthal absent. And Mark Donahghue absent. Next order of business is the adoption of the zoning board minutes from the October 28th meeting.

Need a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Second, Chris. All in favor? I I approve. Five to nothing.

The next order of business is we have a regularly scheduled meeting on the dis on December December 23rd. Uh we are going to uh cancel that meeting at this point. So I need a motion to approve cancelling the December 23rd meeting. Second tone. Rick. All in favor? I opposed. Motion passes 5-0. And then lastly, before we start our new petitions, we need to adopt the 2026 zoning board review calendar. So I need a motion to approve the calendar. The calendar is attached to your folder.

Motion to approve. Rick Lombardi. Second. Anton Vos. All in favor? I. Anybody disapprove? Measure passes 5 nothing. Okay. On our docket tonight, we have two new petitions. We're going to just call out the petitioner and the address and see if you're ready to proceed. And if you are, we will proceed in the order that the uh petitions are listed. Rebecca

petition ZBR29, Ocean State Holdings of 310 West Main LLC, uh Susan Montero, applicant and Robert Sylvia, um attorney, uh located at plot 108 Northwest, lot 16801. Mr. Silia, you're ready to go. Thank you, Miss Silva. We'll come back to just one second. Petition ZBR2530, Alexander Simmons, Jr., owner. Um, real estate is located at 1942 West Main Road, plot 104, lot 3. Mr. Simmons, are you ready to proceed?

Present and ready. Thank you. Okay, so we'll take these in the order that they're listed. ZBR 2529 and Rec Rebecca will now read it into the docket. Ocean State Holdings of 310 West Main Rowan LLC owners Susan Montero, applicant and Robert M. Sylvia, attorney for special use from 1212B2 and 1212D2B to erect a wall sign that exceeds size and number of signs allowed in use of name Newport to identify the location. said real estate is located at 310 West Main Road and further identified as tax assessors plot 108 Northwest lot 16801. Good evening, Miss Silver.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Uh for the record, my name is Robert M. Silva. I'm an attorney who's representing Ocean State Holdings of 310 West Main Road LLC. I'm here this evening with Mr. John Cessian who's the general manager of the facility and also he engaged the services of uh uh Mr. uh Jeff Carter who's here from the sign company to answer any questions that board members might have. Uh essentially this is a an old building that just got uh uh before the planning board and was granted a lot of relief to upgrade the facility itself. Uh it's a very contemporary looking building. Not much you can do with it except that the skin is being revised, the windows are being upgraded completely and the signage is being changed. uh the applicant went before the planning board for these changes and as a part of the request to the planning board. It also asked for earlier is that it's just not one dealership with one type of car. It's four dealerships. And we're asking that it be also known as Newport Ram, Newport Dodge, Newport uh Chrysler, and finally Newport Jeep. Uh we think that the uh area itself lends itself to the relief that we're rasking. Uh there's uh the character of the area itself is totally commercial. Hotels on either side across the street with signage. Uh we don't believe

there's any uh aesthetic impact uh by the sign on a public right of way. uh total amount of the sign area on the premises has been granted by prior variance relief. Uh and uh the existence of non-conforming signs on the premises there aren't any. They all conform now according to uh the the relief that was granted. and the site design and layout of the property lends itself uh for this kind of signage because it's a pure commercial building. Uh as a part of the relief granted by the zoning uh the planning board before we got to the zoning board uh there will be uh some amenities placed on the property. There'll be some landscaping, some trees on the front of the building because there's nothing there now. And along Race Street, which is the road in the back, there's a residential neighborhood that's been there for years and years. So, Mr. Narcian suggested that we would like to put up a solid fence. Right now, all you have is a chain link fence. And if you live next door and you look, you can see all the cars that are backed up and parked along the property line. So, there'll be a a an opaque fence constructed and put on that property line uh which will uh make sure that the neighbors aren't looking at the rear end of cars as they're parked. But that was granted and that will be done pursuant to a planning board decision. We're here tonight simply asking this honorable board for permission to put up a sign Newport uh which is uh 24.16

square ft and it will be uh halo lit. Mr. Nissian is here along with uh Mr. uh Carter for from the sign company to answer any questions. But I'm I'm just explaining to you the situation as I know it. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Silva. Do you have any anyone you're going to call as witnesses? Pardon me. Do you have any witnesses that you were going to call?

Only uh Mr. Narcessian uh who I could call and he could describe the fact that there are four dealerships in one building and none of the signs that are presently allowed related to Newport. I can't hear you. Speak up, Bob. Is it speaking to the mic? I'm having a hard time hearing you. I can't hear you. I'm sorry. I'm having a hard time hearing you. You speak into the microphone that we're having a hard time hearing you. Yep. Uh, call Mr. Nessian and ask him to be sworn. Okay. Question.

Would you raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony that you're going to give this evening is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Yes. State your name and your address, please, for the record. John Narcession, 115 Division Street, East Greenwich, Rhode Island 02818. Can you spell your last name, please? N is Nancy. A R C E S I A N. Thank you, Mr. Messian. Uh when did you get involved with this particular property? Uh we I became involved uh March of 2024. And prior to your involvement, what was it and who owned it?

Um the company name was Ocean CDJR of Newport and the owner was Robert Samo. And you acquired the the real estate and uh the business as such? Yes. Okay. And there are how many u brands of cars in the dealerships in that one building? Uh we represent four. Okay. And your request is to put up a sign that says Newport. Correct. And correct. Why are you looking to have that sign put on the building?

Uh to identify the business name with the brands we represent. I have no further questions. Any questions from the board? Wait for Mark. I've got a few. You want to go ahead? Uh Bob, did you say it was halo lighting or is it back lit? Back lit. It's back lit. Um halo lit, which is I think the same thing. Yeah, same thing. It's the same thing. Why don't you get up? Come up here and I'll swear you in. Swear you

raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the testimony that you'll be given this evening is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. State your full name and address, please. Jeff Carter, 18 Fieldstone Road, Warhard Island. Has your company been engaged to assist uh Mr. Nessian with this application? Yes. And what is it that uh is being asked to be done here?

Uh we're looking to install the uh sign stating Newport at 24 24.16 square ft. Um it's going to be a halo lit it. So halo lit and internally illuminated are both the same thing. It's just how the light emits from the front. The signs to the left that Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram are both actually besides Jeep. Those three signs are facelit. Jeep is actually halo and Jeep will be installed to the left of that. It's also halo illuminated. So, both Newport and Jeep will be Halo. Yes, correct. That's That's fine. What's your company's name again, please? Um, it's AA sign. AA sign. Okay.

And then as far as the uh sign itself, how is it going to be affixed to the building? And then to what standard is the sign going to be able to withstand in terms of weather conditions, those kinds of things. All the signage is UL spec. Um our install procedures are actually through a boltable with blocking on the backside. It goes through the ACM panel through through that through the ACM block to the blocking on the back side of the building. Okay.

So it so current code it's up to 120 mph winds. One more. So, it's going to look similar to what's there now. Am I right? Oh, identical. Yes. Identical to what's So, if you if you drive by tonight and you looked at Jeep and you saw Newport, you wouldn't see the difference in illumination. I mean, I drove by I I can see where it's probably going to go. And Yep. I'm just curious. It's going to look all the same. Correct. Yes. Chris. Um,

I got a I got several questions. I'm sorry, but I'm an engineer, so I catch some things sometimes. Um, I've got questions regarding what the actual size is supposed to be because in your your plans that were submitted, there are several different dimensions mentioned in different locations which give different sizes. So, I'm not sure what the actual size is supposed to be. I'll explain. Okay. The for example on page two of your of your your drawings, it says I'll just use the letter N for example.

Okay. It says the area is 425. I'll leave off the the decimal 425 square in at 1t 11 and 3/4 in AC width. It puts the height of that letter as 17.93 in tall. Okay. Okay. But then on the table to the left of that um it also talks about the area for the letter N and it mentions feet squared of 2.957. Okay,

feet squared. So that's two that's 2.9 ft wide by 2.9 ft tall. Well that that's what this and that's not what so that's not what the drawing what the letter the drawing of the letter N shows. Okay, I understand but in my in my rebuttal to that would be I didn't prod Oh, I'm sorry. We didn't produce drawings. We're actually third party installers. So this is actually from national. So for forgive me for not reviewing that for that portion. I'm going by what dimensions were giving to me. So

okay. So they got to be they must be picking up from the descender from the P and that's not the only place where there's an issue. Well, is this an issue of the difference between square feet or feet squared? Is that are you Well, that's that's part of the issue, but there's also because it's using the same symbol for Okay. for the dimension that it's calling out in in square inches on the plan.

But there there's one other issue that I've got with dimensions which throw into my my questions about well what exactly is the sign is the size of this. Without getting into the difference between what's feet squared and what's square feet, on the first page of your drawings, it shows a height of the letter N as 2 feet and 38 in.

Again, that goes without getting into the square foot foot squared issue. Your drawing, your page two says that the letter N is 17.93 inches tall. Page one says it's okay 24 in tall. So the Let me let me finish up.

Okay. So it also says, you know, I think you you based your square footage of the sign based on the 12T 1 in by 24 in and 38. I did, but I just saw the I just saw Excuse me. I just saw the uh the pickup on that from how they adjusted that. So, what they didn't do was they didn't drop the two foot down to the descender on the P. So, the actual height of the N is in discrepancy, meaning that so if you do the two foot 38 inch down to the bottom of the P on the descender, that's going to give you your square footage. So, they didn't take that line in consideration to drop down the seven the 1 foot 7 and 3/4 is the mounting holes on the sign. That's what I see as the discrepancy.

Okay, cuz my that leads into where I was going with this, which is on the letter P, you've got the leg of the P, which extends down below that 20 in. So that would look like it would actually put the overall height of the sign up to somewhere around 28 to 30.

I agree. I've been doing this 40 years and this has been the discrepancy of mine for years with sign square footage meaning that we're calculated square footage for negative space that's really not there. That being said is yeah there's definitely an error on this drawing that was produced by by the parent company for the overall height not you know for the descender of the P not included. They should have dropped that down taken in the P in consideration. Absolutely. Okay. So that that 20 that 24 in 24 and 38 in goes from the top of the letter N down to the to the bottom of the leg of the letter P from what I'm seeing. Yes. Correct.

Okay. Um those are my questions. Okay. Anybody else? No other questions from the board. Since there are no other questions from the board, I'm going to open this up to the member of people from the public that are here this evening. Is there anybody here this evening that would like to speak for or against this petition? Seeing none, I'm going to close the public hearing and go back to the board and ask for a motion on this petition.

Motion to approve. Motion to approve by Rick Lombardi. Second. Second.

Okay. Rebecca Rogers seconds. Discussion. I I I think this is in conformity with what is already on the building. Um I mean I can remember when it was Newport Ford um you know and it was a much different type of a signage out there. This is um conforming to what with what's the rest of the area which is commercial. Um what they've done to the building um as I've kept an eye and watched has been very tastefully done. The building looks good. the signage already that's there looks good. I think this is uh this should be uh no issue. Um and it just identifies it as um Newport, you know, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep. I mean, I wish it would say Middletown, but but I mean I that's a pet peeve of mine. But that said, um yeah, I I think this is uh I'm going to support this.

Yeah, I too am going to support it. When you look at the improvements that have made been made to the building already and now the signage is just going to go along with the the improvement process, it's certainly not going to cause any type of dimmunition of of the values of the property in the area. As was already mentioned, it's in keeping with the signage that the buildings have that are around other commercial properties. And then the other point that I brought up and was addressed is how the sign's going to be affixed. And it's going to be a fixed uh anchored to a standard where it can under uh under undertake up to category I guess it would be two I think hurricane winds 120 mph. So pretty significant. So for those reasons I'm going to support this position. Also

all in favor? Um, let me just one last thing I'd like to mention. I would like to see the drawings corrected. And I'm not going to say it's going to stop me from however I vote on this, but I I think it would be proper to have the drawings corrected and and sent back into the town. That way, what's with the town records is a corrected drawing with the correct dimensions and how things are are laid out. to reasonable request and I would uh suggest that I'll submit as an amendment to the application a corrected diagram.

Okay. Thank you. I'll be in touch with the national vendor on this. So, do we need to make the motion again with that proviso? Peter, uh yeah, why don't you vote on the make a motion to amend with that condition? You already make the motion. So, I'd like to make a motion to amend the motion to approve consistent with having the corrected drawings submitted. Second. Okay, good. Vote on the amendment. Yep. Vote on the amendment. Now, all in favor? I I opposed. Measure passes 5 nothing. So, that was the amendment.

That's the right motion. Motion to approve. Okay. And motion to approve the original petition. All in favor? I opposed. That measure the petition passes five to nothing. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Very good. Thank you guys. Good luck.

Why? Okay. So, stay with what you got, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Hold that real continue. Yeah. bottom of the P to the top. All right, you ready, Rebecca? We'll go with the second case.

Petition ZBR 2530 Alexander Simmons Jr. owner for special use from 1212 to install a 26 square inch square foot sign where six is with where six is allowed and a height of 9 in 9 square ft 5 in where six is allowed. Said real estate is located at 1942 West Main Road and further identified as tax assessor's plot 104 lot 3. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. My name is Mark Boyven. I'm an attorney representing Mr. Alexander Simmons Jr. He's here with us today along with members of his family that operate the farm currently today. Um, first to briefly talk about this property. This is a farm that is in a residential area. It is zoned R2A. Um, but it has been a farm since before this town was incorporated. It was owned by the cog shells, transfer the salmons, which were part of the same family. So for over 300 years, they have been operating this farm here. It is at the northern part of the town along West Main Road. As you're driving south into the town, it is the first property you hit. The town of Middletown sign is right there. There really is nothing else along that first stretch except for farmland. That's this farm. Across the street is another farm until you get to I believe it's Green Avenue. And then there's another set of lights, some residential communities which are tucked behind, not on this main road. And then you get into the general business area where there are a lot more signs, but for that stretch, there really is next to no signs except for this sign and the sign welcome you to the town. Um the

petition today or sorry the request for a special use covers both the height and the size. I'd like to first address the height. Due to the nature of the property, this land is sloped down. It is approximately I think 3.16 ft below grade of the road. We're asking for the change so that the sign can be 6 ft above the grade of the road. I believe this fits in the purpose of the ordinance which is to make sure we have safe traffic signs easily read so that people can see them along this road and appears like the town has believe that 6ft signs is that size. So based on the slope in the area we're making that request for the height. The second request goes to the size. And I know we're asking for what seems like a lot in compared to what is a six-foot sign, but again, this is a farm. This is a multi-partial lot. I believe there's five lots covering 100 acres there with multiple uses at the property, including I think there's been a farm there, a petting zoo, yoga studio. Um, this isn't just one use, but as you see from the simplicity of the sign, they're not looking for something overly complex. They're looking for something just to identify the property and some other signifier which was established 1880 which when the first person that had the Simmons name bought the property from a cockshell. If you'll see from the photographs or start with the drawing actually does everyone have a copy of the drawing of other copies if you need it.

Send a copy up and send it. Thank you. The highlight. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you.

You can see from that uh drawing and the person who took the measurements is here if you want have any questions to the measurements. Hopefully it won't be difference between square foot and foot square. Just you'd lose me. Um but you can see the size we're talking about. And then if you the other thing I want to bring up there's always been a sign here or at least there's been a sign here for decades of approximately the same size. I submitted pictures to you when I was uh brought on to this case. I am here pro bono by the way. Um family friends with them. Um this is in 2012. There's a sign there that you know was a little bit smaller, a little more detailed but approximately in the same location, same height and approximately same size. that was knocked over by one of the storms. We believe uh Hurricane Sandy knocked that over. It was then replaced in approximately 2018 with another sign which you know again approximately same width, same character. It's not much different that we're asking for here is just it's it seems a lot larger based on the dimensions but is tradition to what has been there. Um, and it also keeps in character with the area which again this is an agricultural area on a busy road where people need advanced warning that this is where they're going to turn. It'll provide safety to traffic so people will have advanced warning to it. People won't be jamming on the brakes quickly because of a small sign. You know, this isn't someone who's trying to put a a law firm in the front parlor. You know, again, they're trying to advertise a little bit more than what's available there. and something that's actually well known in the community and that people come to the area to visit. Um, and the last picture we have is the current sign. Again, if no one has a copy of this, we have additional pictures, but this is a simple sign. It's not lit up. There's not a lot to it. It should provide safe notice to people driving by that this is

where the farm is so they can be prepared to turn off along a busy road and find the location. And it keeps in character. It's handmade. It's not you know, neon. It's not lit up crazy. It is a simple country sign that matches with a character of a farm. Um, if you have any questions, I have people here to answer them. We can have them brought up to be sworn in. But essentially, that is what we have. Questions? Yep. Now, that last picture you just showed, that is a picture of an existing sign or the what the new sign's going to look like. I believe it is existing and what the new sign will be if is approved. Otherwise, it won't be.

Oh, okay. Okay, gotcha. So, it's already there. Okay, understand. U, we'll also consider other size um you know, permission if you guys decide this is too large, but we would greatly appreciate to get this wrapped up in one evening. So, if there's a smaller dimension that you are have your heart set on, we just won't be in compliance with the town.

Any other questions from the board? Seeing none, I'm going to open this up to the p the hearing up to the public. Is there anyone here this evening that would like to speak for or against this petition? Seeing none, I'm going to close the public hearing and I'm going to ask for a motion for this petition. Motion to approve. Second

discussion. I'll I'll lead off. Um I drove out by the and stopped in and actually uh talked with Mr. Simmons. And um while I was when I when I did my drive by to go out there, I took a look at other signs that are located along West Main Road for about a I looked at probably about a mile stretch. And there are actually nine other signs that are all approximately the same size, um, same style that are located between from all the way down before you get to stop and shop all the way up past the past the farm. Um, so I don't think it's a uh inappropriate or out of proportion to what things are that are already there. I had also noticed the the whole thing about the height of it and realized because of the downs slope that that height was, you know, puts it in the proper location for people that are driving by. I think another issue um that affects the size is while it is larger than the allotted size by code, it's in the section of the road where you're where traffic is driving faster. when you're driving faster, you need something that is a little bit bigger to be able to see it and read it without having, you know, looking at a small sign. There's, you know, difference between reading a large sign at 40 miles an hour or a smaller sign at 25 miles an hour. Um, so for those reasons, I think it's an appropriate size um and would recommend uh approval.

Anyone else? All in favor? I opposed. Measure passes five to nothing. Thank you, gentlemen, and my lady.

I need a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second.