Planning Board - Regular Meeting

This meeting will come to order.

Thank you. This is a regular meeting of the planning board and it's the uh first meeting of our planning board year with new members. Um we have two new members of the board. We lost um Michael Fenton who always brought u a reasoned and balanced argument to all of his uh comments during deliberation. And we lost Leon Amarant who always was wellprepared and presented his uh arguments very articulately. I hope they both continue their interest in planning board activities. The two new members, we welcome back Art Weber who has been involved with planning board activities for more than two decades. It's a great resource. Welcome back, Art.

Thank you. And we welcome a newcomer, Matt Kruinski, who not only brings youth to the planning board, but tremendous energy and enthusiasm. I look forward to working with you. Welcome to the board. Um, since this is the first meeting of the year, our first uh item of business is election of officers. And the first office that we um select is uh the chair of the planning board. So nominations for chair are open. May I have nominations for chair? Mr. Chairman. Second.

Hold on a sec. Okay. Steve. Um, in the year that I have served on the planning board, I have been especially impressed with the thoughtfulness, diligence, and huge respectfulness shown to members of this board, to applicants, and to members of the public by Paul Croachi, who I believe is an excellent leader. and it would be my honor to put his name into nomination to be reappointed as chairman of the board for the next year. Second that.

Thank you. And I didn't pay for that either. Thank you. Other nominations? No other nominations? Uh then nominations are closed and since there's only one nominee as chair, I uh declare the uh candidate elected by acclamation, which I believe I'm entitled to do under Robert's rules. Yeah. Okay. So, thank you all for your uh trust and confidence in me. Appreciate it very much. Um next office is that of vice chair. May I have nominations for the vice chair position? Nominate Charles Valanc Court.

Charles Valanc Court is nominated. Are there any other nominations? Other nominations? I'd like to second that. We have a second for Charles. Other nominations. Again, since there's only one nominee as chair, I declare the candidate elected by acclamation. They have nominations for secretary. I would like to nominate a new member, Art Weber. Although he's not really a new member, he's had an interest in the town for years, uh, serving on various committees, and I think he would be very, very good. Thank you. Do I have a second?

I'll second that.

Um, are there other nominations? Other nominations? Again, as chair, since we have only one nomination, I declare the candidate elected by acclamation. Congratulations to Art and Charlie, who's not here tonight. Next item on the agenda are the appro approval of the minutes of the regular meeting of February 11th and the special meeting of February 3rd. Um, does anyone have any comments on these minutes? Um, I do. So, I'm going to take them separately. So, may I have a motion uh to approve the minutes of the February 11th regular meeting?

So, moved. Do I have a second? Second. Motion is made and seconded to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of February 11th. Does anyone have any comments? Second.

Okay. Um, I have comments on page uh two, item 4 A3, where they're talking about um the building. Uh in the third line, the sentence begins, "Some of some of the existing parking areas would be replaced with permeable pavement." And I think we should change that to read all of the existing parking areas not covered by the expanded building, which I believe is the case. All of the existing parking areas not covered by the expanded building. on page three item for A 13. The last one in bullet C. It some words are missing or we should add some words. a copy of the closed circuit television inspection of what will be provided to the board. It was in the the cover memo. We should have those words in the minutes.

Also on page three, in the last paragraph, uh, CI, the first sentence, Mr. Wansky explained that the amendments to section 728 would allow adaptive reuse projects to enlarge a building footprint by up to 50%. and or add an additional story within dimensional requirements. on page five. Um, in the, um, first large paragraph halfway down, there is a sentence that says, uh, this provided more of a New England aesthetic and was more favorable to the Abutters and also to board members who attended the site visit. The last part of that sentence should be stricken since there are no deliberations at these site visits. Also um in quite a few places in this whole um item 5A the word metal should be changed to metal and it occurs many pieces.

And on uh the last page under the updates, item 64 says the Middletown Senior Citizens Advisory Committee. That should be the Middletown Center Citizens Advisory Committee. So the maker of the motion, are you willing to accept those amendments? Moved. Is the second willing to second it? Uh to accept amendments? Yes. Then uh all those in favor of the minutes as amended say I.

I oppose. Nay. Those minutes are approved. You have a motion to uh approve the minutes of the special meeting of February 3rd, the site visit. Second. Motion is made and seconded to approve the minutes of the special meeting on February 3rd. Is there any discussion? Those in favor say I. Oppose. Nay.

Those minutes are approved. The next item is correspondence. We have one item, a memorandum of the town planner dated February 27th, 2026 concerning an administrative subdivision application of Bailey Avenue LLC and Peter Gallipo Living Trust involving properties fronting Bailey Avenue. further identified as lots 409 and 410 on assessor's plat 126. May I have a motion to receive this correspondence? So moved. Second.

Motion is made and second to receive this correspondence. Is there any discussion? Those in favor say I. I oppose. Nay. Yes.

That correspondence is received. Uh at tonight's meeting, we're going to be uh continuing four items. Items 5B, 5 C, 6 A, and 6B will all be continued. That's 5B, 5 C, 6 A, and 6B will all be continued. We will also be moving item 6 C to before 5A. Item 6 C will be moved before 5A. So with that, you have a motion.

No. Oh, yeah. I need a motion to continue those four items. Thank you. All right. Motion made. Second. Motion is made and seconded to continue items 5B, 5C, 6A, and 6B to our next regular meeting on April 8th. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Oppose. Nay.

Those items are continued. Thank you, Aron. Now we're dealing with item 6 C. Item 6 C, application of Newport Pickleball LLC for a minor land development project, including installation of outdoor courts and other site work and including requests for special use permit per zoning ordinance section 902 and 902G to allow out outdoor commercial recreation. Property located in the general business zoning district located at 105 Chases Lane, Tax Assessor's Plat, lots 150,151, and 152. This is a public hearing. May I have a motion to open the public hearing?

Second. Motion is made and seconded to open the public hearing. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say I. Oppos? Nay. Public hearing is over. We have a Oh, we have a speaker. Sure. Is it related to this item? Uh, normally we have the uh Are you going to make a U a comment from the public? I am the public and I'm a 50 year res. We usually have them present the project first and then we open it to the public. Okay. So, wasn't sure the protocol. Just let me know. Let's hear about what the project involves.

Are you speaking for the project? Yes. Please identify yourself.

Thank you. Good evening. Michael Manow, attorney for the applicant, Newport Pickleball LLC. Uh as you just noted uh this is an application under unified development review uh for both minor uh land development project approval and also a special use permit uh to permit outdoor commercial recreation at the site. Um the property uh consists of three assessors lots which are um on assessor's plats 150, 151 and 152. Uh however, the proposed outdoor uh expansion um would be on lot 152. Uh we will talk about uh the other lots as well though in the context of parking and um a few other uh impacts. So, I have several U consultants here tonight uh on behalf of the applicant uh who will testify about various submissions that were filed uh in connection with this application. Uh there were a number of supporting plans and materials filed which are already part of the record. Uh those were filed through the portal. Um and those include um surveys um existing and proposed conditions plans uh a development impact letter which is the uh January 14, 2026 letter on Newport pickle ball letterhead. um a construction schedule, uh a floor plan, some uh imagery and specifications, a landscape plan, uh a lighting plan, a noise level report, a site plan. Um and then in addition to those items and the other items which have been filed, uh we'll also be introducing a couple of

other uh documents tonight, including two new renderings uh that were prepared by uh the architect um who's here to testify. Um and also we have uh James HooL here uh who will be testifying about a report that he's prepared u in his capacity as a real estate uh expert and appraiser. Uh before you go on, you said you submitted a landscape plan, but I don't have a copy of the landscape plan. Ron, was that submitted? Okay. Landscape plan. Yeah.

Okay. Uh did you also submit a landscape maintenance plan?

You have everything. Okay. All right. So, um just briefly uh before we get into the plans, um I do see that the existing conditions plan is up on the screen. Um so if you look um on that plan on the right side is lot 152. It's the rectangular shaped lot. It's that lot on which the uh four proposed courts would be located. Um kind of in between where the existing building is and the abuing property uh to the east. Um two of the courts proposed are pickle ball courts. Um and the other two courts would be for a sport called padell um which is a very new but fast growing sport um that's uh significantly different from pickle ball um especially in terms of uh the noise that it generates um as well as um the style of play and um how that court is enclosed which we'll also be talking about. Um and so at this time now I'm going to call um our project engineer uh Lynn Small to testify about uh the plans that were filed and she can walk you through um the plans uh submitted from Northeast Engineering.

Good evening. Lynn Small, Northeast Engineers 600 to the mic, please. Couldn't hear it. Okay, sorry. Um, Lynn Small, uh, Northeast Engineers, Six Valley Road. And, uh, I understand that, um, Miss Small appears regularly before the board. Uh, the board would consider accepting her as an expert. I think that I can go through her qualifications. Any objections? No. No. So noted. Thank you.

Thank you. First, could you just walk the board through the existing condition and and layout of the site?

Absolutely. Um, so the property is accessed through um the shopping plaza where the Home Depot is located. Um, it is almost entirely impervious. It is the old um cinema and bowling alley. Uh it's has a very large building in the center um center north I suppose and then uh wrapped on three sides by parking. There is some landscape buffering on the west side um between that residential um housing that's west of the overall project.

That's the uh the parcel on the left side. Talk to the microphone, please. Sorry. The landscaping that you just mentioned is on the the far side of the building on the west. Correct. Correct. The west is the left side of the plan as you're looking at it on the plan. Do we have the hand mic? Hand mic doesn't work. Oh dear. Um, well, maybe one of you could go to the screen and point while the other one is speaking.

I'll do that. Try to speak

or or you can engage another member of your team. Great. Okay, I'll hold this like it's portable. Um, okay. So, the site is accessed from the Home Depot um plaza. Home Depot is located in this general vicinity, which is south of the building. and you come through the access drive uh that's on the souththeast side of the parking lot for this um particular building. This area that's very on the very far west side of the project is existing landscaping which separates from these residential homes that are further west. the rest of the develop the the project site is is commercially occupied and developed or is a roadway gate 17 access roadway to the north

and um currently is there any landscaping on lot 152 which is where the proposed uh expansion would be? Um Pam can go into that in more depth during her testimony if she has. Um there is a tree at the very south corner right where we're entering um parking lot, but for the most part the site is um asphalt. There's a very small strip um around the perimeter uh that is not asphalt. Uh, but I don't believe I'm not I mean I it's not nice landscaping.

And what is to the north of lot 152 where the proposed uh forts would be installed? To the north of lot 152. I mean we're we have asphalt right up to the property line. Um but just north of that you're in the right of way for gate 17 access roadway that does have vegetation and a swale. So there's a a space about 12 15 feet wide between the edge of the property line and the edge of the pavement um for gate 17 access road.

And could you uh just briefly discuss the uh the change in parking by eliminating uh the current uh parking area that's part of lot 152. That might be easier to do if we could flip to sheet two. Okay, so on sheet two, we do include a parking calculation at the bottom um of the page which demonstrates that the required parking is more than um act more than met um with the proposed changes. Um the proposed changes include the development of four courts and a paving uh a seating area in between. Um we have on the north side the pedel courts. Um these are surrounded by um a glass enclosure fence line. I believe it's 14t tall but Dan can go into that detail. On the um southern side is your pickle ball courts. two pickable courts.

Lyn, I I just want to point out on on drawing C2 that the courts are mislabeled.

They are. I appreciate you noticing that because we were going to tell you that. Um I was I had a revised plan to send into you. I didn't want to send in a plan after you got your packet. So, I was going to explain to you we made a typo. Um all we're going to do is change these are going to stay where they're located. And these are the bigger courts. They are the Padel courts. The smaller courts are the pickle ball courts and they're going to be on the south side. So, we're not changing the plan. We're fixing the typo. I appreciate you bringing that up, though. That is absolutely correct. Um the from an engineering standpoint, we're cutting the asphalt and putting in the quartz. There's no new grading associated with this project. Um it will result in a reduction in imperous surfaces. Um it is a redevelopment site. It doesn't it's under 9,000 square ft of changes to the project. So there's a lot of um triggers in the storm water regulations uh that try to promote this kind of development. We've incorporated uh additional screening along the perimeter. So there's increased vegetation around the perimeter of the project. Um, we have pvious surfaces that we're incorporating into the um, development. So, like I said, we're changing asphalt to a more pvious material.

I wonder if you could please elaborate on that. Starting with explaining to us what is the storm water management for this property now where it's like 99% impervious surface and a big roof and so on. And secondly, you say it will be an improvement because some of it will now be pvious. Can you be more specific in terms of how much? And lastly, was any consideration given to applying best practices for storm water management?

So, um, as you are all aware, um, we're required with every project in Rhode Island to follow the codified state regulations for storm water um, controls. Right now, the site has zero provisions for storm water controls. It has conveyance systems which bring the collected storm water down towards access road and out to the coast eventually. There's no proposal to change that existing conveyance system. Um the proposal before you is for the redevelopment of the area between on the on the east side of the existing building to incorporate the four courts. Um in doing that we have increased the pvious surfaces for the project. When you have a project that is um under 10,000 or 10,000 square ft, you can qualify as a redevelopment site. This is in line with the state co codified regulations. What that does is gives you some provisions on when and when when you need to provide water quality treatment and how. um this project doesn't meet those triggers. Um but we are incorporating more pvious surfaces. So we're not required under the storm water regulations which the town has adopted um to provide the more conventional water quality treatment systems that you've seen with sand filters or rain gardens or underground treatment systems. this project because it's so small, we only have to provide green space or areas of nonimperous surfaces.

And what would count as those impervious services? Pervious surfaces, impervious rather. Right. So, as I mentioned, we've enhanced around the perimeter of the project um green space uh which will help both screening. It'll help soften the edges from, you know, neighboring views, although we do have some vegetation on the north side. We've enhanced that within our boundaries as much as we could. Um, and Pam can go into more detail on what she's done for that. Got a question.

It says here that the use will comply with the following criteria subject to its use category. demonstrates conformity with the mental town noise ordinance town code ch130 whatever 130- da how do you know what the sound is until it's built is stick out there that will tell you what the sound is going to be there are now I'm not the

um am I breaking because generally the complaint complaints that have come all over the place with pickle ball is it's too noisy and here I don't know how we can demonstrate conformity until we have a surface on a bowl. I understand there are studies that have been done for pickle ball courts and I believe we're prepared to answer that. I don't know I'm if unless there's any more questions related to the civil um the only utility that we're bringing for these are is just lights. So there's it's a really low um impact project as far as my office is concerned. Yes,

I have a question. So So my question is are the court surfaces themselves pvious? Um we can make them a pvious um material if we need to. There's two options on the construction of the courts to make them impervious or pvious. Um right now the plans show them as a pvious um material. Okay. So for the to simplify it right now the site is an old site with old asphalt and it's basically when it rains it sheet drains to the area you described. Correct.

In this new plan with the improvements on lot 152. It'll still sheet drain. There's no new storm water management, but storm water will have the opportunity to filter into the planted areas. Absolutely. And then be absorbed, you know, into the ground in the pvious areas, right? Correct. All right. Exactly. I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. Nope. That's exactly how it works. Yep. Lynn, did you say that currently the courts are planned to be pvious surfaces? Yes, they are shown as pvious on plans. Steve,

I wanted to um that was helpful the exchange that was just had with Miss Purrick, but I want to understand sort of percentagewise what are we talking about? Are we talking about 5% of what is impervious now becoming pvious through the landscaping? Are we talking 2%? Are we talking 10% of the site? And the other question I had for you, Miss Small, is you say that if it's under 10,000 ft, the state requirements um don't don't pertain with respect to best practices for storm water management. Is that 10,000 ft just the prior the piece being redeveloped into the pickle ball and paddle courts or is it the whole site?

So is a redevelopment of the the site? So that is this project before you? Um and the water quality treatment is changing the impervious surface to pvious. That's an accepted low impact development technique which qualifies for water quality treatment. We don't have to put in structures that people then have to maintain. Changing asphalt to grass is a recognized water quality treatment device in the regulations. So changing asphalt to landscaping is an acceptable practice. We're not trying not to follow the rules at all.

I understand. But so what so how much of the asphalt percentage- wise is being changed into landscape? I can run calculations. I don't need I don't need precision. I mean order of magnitude, please. Well, these are the courts and this is the site. So I mean that looks like it's like 25% 20% maybe. I don't know. I'm guessing though. I have not run that calculation at all. But but I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm confused. The the where the courts are going to be you're counting as pvious. The courts themselves and the landscape areas around them.

Okay. And how do quarts how how what is the material that makes the court pvious? I understand grass but these are not grass. So like pvious pavers, pvious concrete, pvious asphalt. The surface is more like a pvious concrete. Pervious concrete for all four quarts. Yeah. Okay.

I'm sorry. Another question from No, I I since Lind since you're up there. Um parking. Yes, there's a parking table that I can't read at the bottom of the screen. So, The notes I wrote down after review of this prior to the meeting was that there's the elimination of parking spaces with the core construction. Yes.

And my question is has the has is the parking from one lot 152 replaced elsewhere on the site? And if the answer is yes or no depending on that then I was going to ask you about what is the requirement and do we meet the code? We do meet the code for the minimum required parking on the site within the confines of our property. How many approximately how many spaces would you say we're losing with the courts? Oh, all right. It's blown up. I don't know if I can.

I think I could uh answer that. I'm sorry to interrupt. one one of the uh materials filed with the application was uh a impact statement um on the applicant's letter head dated January 14th. Um and that document um in part addresses uh the net change in parking. So there'd be a reduction to 119 spaces where 77 are required. In addition to that, um while we don't expect there to be um an issue with parking capacity given uh what's already available even with uh this proposed expansion, um our client also has u the right to overflow parking in the Home Depot lot. So there's an abundance of parking even with uh this development and the elimination of associated parking spaces on lot 152. Got it. And uh there was a sheet three to your plan set, correct?

Yes, those are just details. U now as noted on sheet C2 and um detailed more uh particularly on C3. Uh will there be lighting installed? There'll be lighting for the courts. Yes. The lighting plan's not part of my set though. Um but the locations of the lights are u identified on your plan. Correct. Correct. Um and there's further detail here on sheet C3 uh regarding the dimensions and materials for the proposed courts. Correct. Correct.

So I'm coming back to what I said before. Which one of these experts is going to tell me about how you define the noise that's going to be made before it's built? How do you do that? you go to a laboratory with the that and the ball and all that stuff. They actually have studies of other pickle ball courts and padell courts that have been installed already. Um but again, like I said, I'm not the right person to be speaking to.

Okay. Well, who is? So our our client as part of the application filed um a noise level report and they cited to um studies in that report um which uh provide the average decibel level at different distances um from uh pickle ball being played um and also the uh reduction in decibel level the further that you travel from um a pickle ball court where it's being played. So here um and we'll I other witnesses will testify about this. Um the nearest residence is um across the access road on the other side um you know at least 200 250 maybe more feet from where the pickle ball courts would be. And there's actually several different um levels of uh attenuating factors between where the pickle ball courts are and that closest residence. Um so the first being uh the pedel courts which are on the north side and closest to the access road are surrounded by a 14t um clear plexiglass type material. Um, and so those courts are entirely enclosed with a 14t high uh barrier. So there'd be a barrier on the south side and another barrier on the north side of those pedel courts which would u definitely mitigate um and reflect sound back. In addition to that um as uh will be presented um as part of the landscaping plan there will be additional landscaping along the north side of lot 152 which will provide um further attenuation of any u sound from

the pickle ball courts. And in looking at um the noise uh study uh or the noise report that was filed and uh what the average decibel level is um at the source. Um, I think that the board can not only accept that, but in looking at the distances uh to the nearest uh properties which might be affected uh determine that uh this will not uh result in a violation of the town noise ordinance and certainly any activity uh on the site will be subject to that noise ordinance. Um, this is not a situation where you have a residence right next to a pickle ball court with no barriers or um landscaping of any kind in between. That property to the east um is used for commercial boat and equipment storage. Um so there wouldn't be any impact on that property. And um to the south you have the Home Depot outdoor garden center uh with vehicles and forklifts driving around um a very busy parking lot. Um and not just Home Depot, but you've got all the other stores and uh restaurants in that plaza. Um and uh on the the west side of the courts is u a concrete wall which is the uh the east wall of the building. So you really had these courts surrounded by either a parking lot, cement wall, vegetation with u no residential use on the other side or um a busy access road after you get through those multiple levels of attenuation u before you'd get to a residence which is uh on the other side of the street.

Excuse me, a point of clarification. the the ordinance, does it specify an acceptable sound level at the property line as opposed to the nearest house? The property line. So, you should be looking at the property line, not the nearest house, right? And and

comply with the ordinance. And I'm suggesting that even measuring it at the property line, given what the average uh decibel level is of pickle ball play, by the time you travel the 200 plus feet to the the edge of the property line, it will be below what uh the ordinance uh limit is in Middletown. And if I could have um one of our client representatives is here. if he could uh comment further on this that might be helpful.

Thank you. Uh my name is Chuck Irving and I am uh one of the investors in this pro in this club along with John T. Verge my friend here. Um first of all I want to just correct something. The nearest residential property line is probably about 178 ft. The nearest you're bound you have to meet the requirement at your property line. Right. Well, no. I should say the nearest residential property line to the pickle ball courts is about 178 ft if I measure from the pickle ball courts. If I measure to the nearest house structure or probably about 250,

but I believe the ordinance requires you to meet a certain decel level at your property line. I do not know the answer to that. Um, Mike. Yeah. So, it's a when you look to see if someone's in violation of the noise ordinance, you measure it from the receiving land. From where? The receiving land. So, whatever the receiving land is is what you measure it from. And the receiving land is the

right right on the other side of the property line. However, if there's, you know, I think on the the north side of the slot, there's a roadway access road. So, if you were if someone across the street said, "Hey, I think they're in violation." I can hear it. You would measure it from their property line, from the receiving land. So, it just depends on whichever is that the wording in the ordinance? The receiving land. Yes. So if there's a roadway in between you and the receiving land that that changes things. Thank you. I I there's the court.

What I what I might suggest if it it would be okay is I think you're exactly right until they're built. How do we measure it? And so I think our group would be okay with discussing a measurement level at the receiving land that would be acceptable and if it exceeds that then we could implement mitigation measures to achieve that condition and it has a condition. Let me I've got something to say. Well, let me give you a real life scenario. Yeah.

Okay. I have a home on Island Drive. I sit out on my porch and I read a lot of books. in Slate Hill, which is to my south, about 150 ft away, the owner of that home has a pickle ball court on his driveway. And if the wind isn't blowing or anything else, guess what? I hear the pickle ball. And that's the way it is. I have never said anything to him. You know what the heck? It's If he's happy doing that, that's great. It doesn't bother me that much. But that that's a real life situation in my experience with pickle ball. So I just throw that out. Okay. How many feet and all the rest of that stuff. It it can be annoying if you aren't I'm a very patient person and I like my books. So if they're having fun over there, that's great. But a lot of people aren't happy about that. They hear the noise. They're closer than I am to it. So, pickle ball's great, but we'll get down into this. So, it's noisy and all that stuff. So, those are the things I think are the major issues.

What are your expected hours of operation for the pickle ball courts?

Um, you know, it's we're not going to have this covered. So, it will be mostly daylight hours. I we will have black lighting, down lighting, so we'll have the ability to probably go to 9:00, John. Um, and um, if I could just get back to your comment and I'd love to when we selected this facility for pickle ball, there were probably about six different choices on Aquidnik Island we looked at and we've always planned for an outdoor experience to go along with this. This is the one of the main reasons we selected this facility because it sits in kind of an industrial retail area. And then if you look at the plan, the reason we selected that positioning for those two pickle ball courts is because it put it the furthest away from any residential property. Our wall on the building goes up over 19 ft. So that is going to bounce sound toward the landscaping company next to us. The walls on the pedel courts, which are glass, go up about the same height. that is going to bounce the noise toward Home Depot. In addition, we're going to have fencing surrounding the entire 18,000 ft area and we're going to have landscaping to absorb. But if it is a problem for a neighbor, we are going to be there to mitigate it because there are mitigation measures that can be put in place. Um, I'm the first to acknowledge that that rat tat if it's not addressed properly is annoying and we're not going to do that to any of our residents. We promise that. Um, given your willingness uh that Ron, can we put that as a condition that uh once it's built you make measurements and mitigate it if necessary?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Um, Mr. Irving is it? Yes, thank you.

I wanted to um thank you and your partners for um bringing a really wonderful facility to middle middle town. We're charged among other things with economic development opportunities for the town and everybody bemons the loss of the bowling alleys and then the movie theater and so on. So, it's nice nice to have this. On the other hand, we have to balance that with our responsibility under the code to protect neighboring properties from uh nuisance uses and and and and so on. We've talked about noise. You heard a fair number of questions regarding storm water management where right now it's it's there is none to something that you're doing that is uh modest. I wonder it. But there still is a big chunk of the undeveloped land that you're doing that is going to remain in imperous surface and not a lot of uh landscaping. I wonder if you could provide us some reassurance that everything that is reasonable in the way of landscaping, trees, pvious surfaces has been done or is it possible to do more than what has been presented to us tonight?

Um, I'm not the best judge of reasonleness. So, I'll I'll I'll try to address it more specifically. The impacted area that we're talking about, the whole paved area is about 18,000 ft. The pvious surfaces, and I believe Lynn, they're both under the pickle ball and the pedel courts. Those areas add up together to be about 7,000 ft, maybe 7,500 ft. So, we're taking an area of that amount and we're making it pvious. In addition, we're probably adding about 500 feet of greenscape, which will also be pvious, which is not there now. So, I I hope we're doing what's reasonable on the boundaries. Were already benefited by a green strip between us and the landscaping uh company as well as between us and the access road. On those two green strips, we're going to add vegetation, trees that is outlined in our landscaping plan. So, I I hope that's reasonable. We're And let me just add this initiative comes from our membership. They want they came to John and I and they said they want an outdoor experience. They love the club. They're proud of the club. It's it's an affordable club for people on the island, but they in the summertime they want to be outside. So, within this area, our goal is not just to create a couple courts. Our goal is to create a green, enjoyable space so you actually feel like you're inside a a rackets club, not sitting across from Home Depot. And I think that'll be part of it.

Well, that's what I was trying to encourage and I just wonder if you have done enough to achieve that goal. So, for example, the rest of the space other than the courts you're keeping as asphalt. Is there a reason why the rest of the space surrounding could not also be impervious surfaces? Uh, excuse me, impervious surfaces. Why keep the asphalt? What else can be planted? What else can be green?

Um, I I'm going to let my landscape architect come up and and answer that those some of those questions. We're we are absolutely open to suggestions about that. Um our uh our objective is just to create a very very pleasant atmosphere. I had one of my friends who said when we chose this site, he goes, "Well, this isn't really doesn't feel like a club location." And I said, "We're going to make it feel that way. We're going to make it feel great." All right. We are aligned, sir. Okay. And I'm sorry, did I answer your questions about opening hours? And

yeah, it mostly pertains to I mean you guys have indoor facilities that obviously are not going to be a noise violation, but you just don't want to be having rackety at like you know 11 p.m. And uh my sec my second question you did by the way. My second question was are you guys going to shut off those those large lights that you mentioned they're dark sky compliant but are you going to shut them off at night like when you guys close it? Let's Well, we will we will definitely shut them off at night. We'll have some probably for safety reasons low-level security lights that will be below the fence area. Um, but once again, we're committed to use technology that does not splash light beyond this area, but they will be shut off at night.

I really appreciate you guys using dark sky compliant lighting that has zero degree cut offs. It's incredibly important with light pollution levels. So, we're trying to reduce that. And with 50,000 lumens of lighting, you want to make sure you shut those off at night after you guys close. Right. And I apologize for hoging the No, that was that was helpful. Um stay there and that because I have a couple of comments. One is um uh Mr. Hutler touched on a point that I was going to raise too. The areas to the north and west of the courts that you're building, you're retaining the asphalt. Could those not be made grass? What was that?

That's my first question. My second question is the uh light poles that you're putting at a 21 ft high. Is that within the the uh required by ordinance 21 ft? Zoning official reviewed the plan and confirmed that the proposed lighting conforms with the with the lighting ordinance. So, um the lighting is fine. My question uh could those imperous surfaces be turned into grass which makes it more like a a club environment?

So can you say what my hearing is terrible? I apologize. if the the other imperous surfaces could be turned into grass or impervious. Um certain parts of it do I'll we have economic limits in terms of what the membership can pay for membership here versus what this is going to cost us. So um we will look at anything that you suggest but to make the entire site pvious may be economically prohibitive but uh whatever and and I I hope our landscape architect is going to get a chance to speak but um whatever suggestions you have for us we'll take into account. I promise.

Bring your landscape expert. That's a good segue. So actually um do you want to present over there so you can refer to your plan?

Hi. Identify yourself please. Uh Pamela Rogers, landscape architect uh Verde Design. And um have you appeared before this board uh to testify as an expert previously? Yes. Um given that I'd ask if the board would consider um accepting her as an expert. So noted. Thank you. Thank you. Um you filed a uh landscaping plan as part of this application package. Correct. Yes.

Could it's on the screen. Um could you just walk the board through this plan and then if there have been any um updates um since this original plan was filed?

Yes. So um this is the original plan and because um you know there are there is fencing all the way around it. We only added the um arborites along the section where it would be more exposed in between the neighbor and the courts. But um at the request of the tree commission, we revised that plan and we extended the aberite um north and south along that property line. So I have an updated plan and copies if you'd like to see those. Um I can pass them out right now if you'd like or I can continue reviewing the plan.

So if there were revised plans, they probably should have been submitted. Um the board needs to have those in front of them if they're going to consider voting tonight.

Yes. So we uh we have copies here uh which we can submit for the record. Um I believe the change is relatively um minor and what she just described. Um and I'd also note too um as with the u engineering plans uh there was a mislabeling originally of which courts would be the pickle ball and which would be the pedal. But other than changing those names um nothing else uh changes as to the dimensions of the four proposed courts. So the u uh there would be another condition that they would uh use the updated landscape and landscape maintenance plans.

If the board is going to vote on this tonight, you have that as a condition. That means that you won't have an opportunity to re to review the revised plans. If that's your intent, that's fine. How extreme are the the updates? Like, excuse me. Do we know how extreme the updates are? Like, is it is it a numerical change or is it like It's it's really this section right here and this section right here. So, it's really just adding more screening along that east side. And it increases the quantity to 53.

Thank you. And why again were those uh updates made to the plan? They were in response to a comment made by the tree commission or a recommendation that the tree commission made.

Thank you. And I also see on these uh updated plants in addition to the full row of trees um the labeling is the correct labeling uh for the courts. donuted. M Miss Rogers, we heard that there was going to be about 500 ft of green space. Can you identify where that is? So I think um that would be here. This is 500 square ft.

I'm sorry. Where the row of arbivite is in the new plan. So right in the new plan, it it extends along here and all the way along here and then all the way along the back. 500. So I think it's actually exceeds 500 ft. There's 300 square ft on the north in the old plan. So that's a total of 800 ft in the old plan. The new plan has 500 feet on the south extending all the way up the side which is not illustrated in the old plan. And then it looks like an expanded area in the back whereas before there was just a small strip and that goes all the way

from left to right on that parcel. Correct. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So we essentially doubled the landscaping. Okay. Which it's a it's a row of it's a perimeter row of arbivites. Yes. No. But there's no gu garden or green space per se aside from there'll be a planting bed space but it'll be no there won't be any lawn space if that's what you're referring to.

All right. And to um Chairman Croch's question, the pro the property the the the asphalted area to the west of the two pickle ball courts and the patio. Could that be converted into some kind of permeable green space? Or I guess that's redundant into green space. I understand. Yeah, I think that's something I would have to um consult with my clients about if they would consider that. Okay.

There might be some access issues because there is a door. So I I I the asphalt area in the middle is made simply so we can have outdoor furniture and people can watch the games but complementing that asphalt and reducing some of it with some green space or maybe some small plantings we would be totally open to. Thank you. Yeah and I think actually that was something we discussed early on anyway um as a phase two. So that's something that we absolutely can incorporate more green space

and uh I see noted on the landscaping plan um notation about the fence uh being repaired. Could you describe um any changes to the fencing?

Yeah. So in this corner over here um not to disturb this tree which is existing and it's it's a fairly nice tree um we can't really um extend that arborite under the tree. So there is a wooden fence that is already existing there, a board fence that is screening, you know, the courts from the road. And we're we noted that that would be fixed as needed and repaired. And it's just a short section. It might be at the most 16 ft. Uh does the board have any other questions uh for this?

Any other questions for the landscaper? Thank you for adding more trees like the um suggestion of the tree commission. So, thank you. You're welcome. All right. Thank you. Um next I'll call Dan Perkin Rother from Birkworks Architecture. Hello Dan Herkinrother, Herkarts Architecture 36 of Quintnik Fav. And uh have you appeared before this board as a expert before? Yes, I have.

And again, I'd ask if the board would accept uh Mr. Hen Rosler as an expert. Objections. Objections. So noted. Um, could you walk through first the floor plan and site plan that were filed as part of the original application materials? Those should be part of the packet.

Um, yeah, I mean the the floor plan and site plan, it's pretty redundant. Um, Lynn's plan showed the same. My drawings were the first of the table and then Lynn's drawings came in after mine. So, uh, it shows the same. uh my drawing is labeled correctly. So, it does call the Padel courts uh to the north, pickle ball courts to the south, and then uh I have submitted the two additional renderings to help show some context of where we're adding the courts and the surrounding site. And um these two renderings, is that one of them on the screen? That's correct. Yes. And I have copies of these to distribute.

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. you please walk the board through these two renderings starting with uh A73 which is the one on the screen.

Uh sure. So uh we can see here these are the two pickle ball courts that are located to the south and these are the two pedel courts the north. Uh this shows you the glass enclosure that's going to be around the podell courts. Uh this shows the center patio area that's going to be used for seating. And then uh I just showed greenery. U this greenery isn't to certain spec. It just shows there's going to be greenery. This would be the arbor we talked about. Um this 500 ft that's being added right now. There's just asphalt there. That's the 500 ft we were talking before about being added to. And then this is the arborvite that Pam mentioned along the uh east side of the property. And then this side is just an a mixture of a lot of additional uh existing planting that's on the side of the road. And then they're going to add some more here. And then right about here is the access road that you can that goes to the Navy base. Thank you. And um 704 um is that just a zoomed out view of what you were just referring to?

Yeah, I thought 704 was helpful because you can get a context of all the surrounding um buildings. Uh this is the landscape building. This is the Home Depot building. And then when we talk about residential, this is the bulk of the residential. This is a pretty good size neighborhood over here. And as we mentioned, it is light years away just because it's on the other side of the building and there's planning and all kinds of stuff. Uh and then there's uh three houses that are located here on the other side of the access road.

Does the board have any questions um for Mr. Herkin Roser?

Um yes, please. on 703. Go back in back of the two paddle courts. So, there's a glass wall at the back and then there's a set back to where there's the I don't know if that's the row of arborite or whatever. And and then it looks like there's a no man's land there. Can you tell us what that space consists of? Uh yeah, that's I know that that dimension is 20 ft. As to what's going there, I would refer to Pam or Lynn uh because that would be outside my scope.

Okay. This area here, 20 ft. It's a lot. So currently that area is asphalt and but that could be something that could be converted into um landscape area.

Great. Which would also help with the noise issue. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. There are no other questions for Mr. Herkin Roser or nothing else. Any other questions for this witness? Well said. Thank you. Thank you. Um and next I'd like to call James HooL. Um and um Mr. Mr. HooL, have you appeared before this board? Uh I have

to testify in your capacity as a real estate expert and appraiser. I have. Uh Mr. Hoo, pull the mic to uh toward you, please. Thank you. Is that better? Much better. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Uh James H, 198 Union Street, Portsman. Um go ahead. Uh thank you. And um did you prepare a report um in preparation for testifying tonight?

I did. I apologize for not being I got called in a little late on this. So it wasn't submitted. And I think I u already requested this before, but just to make sure it's clear for the record, I'd ask that the two additional renderings um as well as the updated landscaping plan be um included in the record. Um in addition to that, I have copies of Mr. Hoo's report, which I'd also submit for the record and can distribute uh right now to each of you.

Ron, uh this has happened before where Mr. who comes in with a report at the hearing rather than submitting it a week before which is required. Um so if you'd like I can ask Mr. HooL um to testify regarding what's essentially the contents of his report but I just thought it might be helpful. Um and I only just received this as well. Um he was brought in late. Uh but if excuse me, let let me let me get a sense of the board whether they're willing to accept the report or simply hear his testimony. Hold on a second. What's your pleasure? Pleasure.

I think there's a process have it in there for a reason. A lot of this gives us an information for listening to you and everything else. And it's not fair for you just because we don't know exactly everything we need to know. That's that's I Mr. Weber, I don't disagree with you. I just didn't I would The time frame was too short. How long is the report? It's only about seven pages or eight pages. So I I suggest that um uh you just give testimony. That'd be great. And and in the future get your report in a week early. You have it here in front of you.

I do. I do. And so we're not sharing the microphone. I'll just use the one over here. Um so you can press Mr. H. Did you um visit the site? I did. And um what is um and there's been testimony already about the existing conditions of the site, but did you um note anything in particular regarding the proposed locations for these courts and the abuing properties?

I let let me I'll I'll go on sort of if you don't mind and I'll embellish somewhat. I of course read through the petition and all the material and then visited the site. The site, as it's been testified, is currently used as a parking area. Um, it's fully paved. And what I was very conscious about was the proximity of any of the residential properties. As Mr. Hurricane Rother just said, there are three residential single family houses across the access road to the north. There is of course a development of single family houses in back of what is Home Depot and there are three single family houses that are essentially along Chase's road right in back or of the um people's credit union. Though I was very cognizant of the residential properties because when I viewed this I didn't really see the potential for any impact from um the the courts to any of the commercial properties. And of course the commercial properties dominate this area. You have the Home Depot. Um you have the plaza, the hotel on the um on the access road, the there's a gas station, there's you know the the people's credit union is right on the other side. So it's really it's dominated by commercial uses. There's commercial uses of course all along West Main Road and and across where um you know there's office buildings on the West Main Road very close by. So I I really wanted to target this the residential properties because I thought

that was um probably more important than anything else. Now as um has been testified um and stated earlier 602 section 602 requires uh allows this use but requires a special use permit. So, I was very cognizant of the special use permit criteria when I was looking at the property. The first issue, of course, is whether or not it'll have a significant dimminion of property values in the surrounding area of the district. Now, the conversation that's gone on up until this point about the noise that's created by pickle ball has sort of dealt with the pickle ball in a vacuum. But in real estate, when you're looking at the dimminion of value of a use that's being introduced into a neighborhood, you're not just looking at the use in a vacuum. You're looking at it in the context of all the other uses that are around there. You have very high traffic on the access road. You have high traffic on Tra's Lane. you have massive amounts of traffic within the parking lot of um Home Depot, the plaza, the credit union. The um hours of operation for Home Depot is till 10:00 at night. So, you have that traffic goes later than is being even proposed by the owners of this property. Uh when you when I look at the I was very careful. I did a lot of exploration of the sound that's created by pickle ball. It's a 70. The swat of a pickle ball court is 70 dB. But I mean of a of the ball is 70 dB,

but within 100 ft it reduces down. And to put that in perspective, that's about the sound of a typewriter when you um who ever can remember typewriters. and and then you have uh within 100 ft it drops down to about 50 dB which is sort of the murmur of an office building. So if you think about the amount of traffic that is being generated all around as it was stated you have the garden centers right outside. you know that all of these commercial uses that are in the area are receiving deliveries on off hours so that they are early in the morning and late at night. Um those the this the sound of all this the the 70 dB at the right at the point of contact and then 50 dB 100 ft away is going to be completely lost within the context of the noise that's all around it. So when I look at it in terms of the negative impact or the dimminion of property values that it just is not going to be increasing sound. Mr. Weber referred to the pickle ball court that's in the housing development to the south of his property. I have a pickle ball court across the street from me. There was um and I went out and measured it because I was curious and it's 400 feet from my house and and in a a housing area, a residential area where there is no other real traffic being received, you can hear it. It's not overwhelmingly painful by any stretch of the imagination, but um when you're in this type of a commercial environment, you're simply not going to hear it. there's too much

ambient noise all around at the same period of time, same time. You also have to look at the fact that most of the problems that have been created that you read about in metropolitan areas where they've in um installed a lot of pickle ball courts, the pickleball courts are there are numerous and so you have a constant throbbing of that noise. These are only two courts and they are indeed completely buffered by the building by the plantings by the commercial property on the other side and then to the south side the parking lot of Home Depot. So I don't see these courts creating any kind of additional noise factor that's going to create any kind of a problem. And so therefore, I I look at it, it's visually much better than it was as a parking lot. Uh because you have surrounded by green area. Um the there's not going to be any certainly any odors. It's dark sky compliant on the lighting. So I don't see any factors that would create any kind of a dimmonition of property values in the neighborhood. And that was that is the basis of my thinking for that. Uh would it create a nuisance? No, it's a Did you have a question?

I do, but I want you to finish your testimony first.

Okay. Uh I don't see it creating a nuisance in the neighborhood for exactly the same reason. Uh it's not going to increase traffic anymore than it already is. Uh as was stated in the abstract um the number of players that are already going during the winter to the indoor facility drop off during the summer. So that these are this will not be increasing traffic over what has already been received in the winter that is there. So I don't see any uh any factor that would create any kind of a nuisance. uh will it be detrimental to or or substantially or permanently injure the appropriate use of properties? No, I don't see that. It's very this is already an existing recreational facility. It's a continuation of that and it's no um it certainly is very much in keeping with the rest of the uses um that are in the area. The comprehensive land use plan calls for infill. I refer to this all the time within uh existing commercial areas. This is exactly an infill lot in a commercial area right next to an existing facility. Though I don't see it uh being detrimental or permanently injuring appropriate use. The granting of the special use permit will not reduce in hazardous conditions. Uh there are certainly no hazardous conditions that uh will change at all from what's existing and has not been a problem. Um is there um proposed use could um foreseen to create hazardous conditions. The use will comply with the following criteria. Uh demonstrates conformity regarding noise. I think I've addressed that and it was addressed that it really

is the noise off of the property. I don't see it traveling and I don't see it superseding the existing uh ambient noise in the neighborhood. Uh there's no significant negative impacts to ground or surface water quality. The engineers testified to that. Uh no negative traffic or parking. again it's not going to increase or change what's there and will comply with commercial development standards uh because this is also a land development project we have um per section 404 uh there are criteria that I looked at uh there the proposed development is consistent with a comprehensive community plan um it is uh a legal it is a an approved use it a legal use albeit with the special use permit. Uh it's a permitted use in the neighborhood zone and clearly has anticipated this use in a general business zone. Um I don't as I said the infill the talking about infill in commercial areas satis is satisfied. Uh B the proposed development is compliance with standard provisions um standards and provisions of the town zoning ordinance. Uh it is there we're not asking for any variances. Uh there no significant negative environmental impact. I don't believe there would be. there is a little bit of an increase in green space. All attempts are being made to uh increase as much as possible during this conversation. Uh so I don't see that there are any negative there's not going to be any creation of any uh product on site or anything that would create any kind of additional environmental impact. U no subdivision u so there's not going to be uh individual

lots. uh all proposed land development shall have adequate and permanent access has the same access that it's always had which is adequate. So all in all when I look at the standards both for the uh minor land development as well as a special use permit I feel that they've all been adequately addressed and the pro the projects in conformance. Um, you finished? Yes.

Um, we've already uh received testimony from one of the investors that he's willing to mitigate any noise issues should they arise. My question is, did you look at any potential impacts from lighting? I mean, the light poles are 21 ft high and uh will there be any light impact issues? We know that dark sky compliant um lighting is required. Um I didn't I didn't look at it beyond that simply because of the fact that I anticipated that it would be dark sky compliant. I I understand with dark side lighting it directs the lighting downward but these are 20 ft in the air.

I so I did to a degree question you and and you did you or did you not look at that?

I did I did I didn't see it as a problem only because of the hours of operation. Um, it's already been stated that they're not going to uh likely be on uh beyond 9:00 at night. These are outdoor facilities, so that it will still be light for a good portion of the time that these would be in operation uh during the year. So, I don't see that uh the light pole, regardless of the height, is going to have any kind of an impact if they're being shut off at 9:00 at night and they're dark sky. the lighting is dark sky.

And if I could just comment on that. Um, so as I mentioned, one of the materials submitted with the application was a lighting plan. So there are specifications and some uh schematics in that plan um regarding the proposed lighting. So these would be basically u four poles um 5 to 8 mters high around the court perimeter shining down onto the cord uh in addition to being dark sky compliant and um as was uh stated earlier. Um you know these would be in keeping with the current hours of operation and um in uh most cases probably not past 9. Uh regardless, even though uh there's certainly still traffic and uh significant lighting at that time uh from the Home Depot parking lot and building, um so this would be um substantially uh less of an impact than any of the other lighting that currently exists at that time uh in this uh shopping plaza. Um, and we do have um we have a illustrative uh photo of one of these proposed lights. Uh, like I said, a schematic um and detailed specifications about um the proposed lighting and uh the various ratings and standards uh that it would satisfy. Uh if there are additional questions about the lighting, I can have one of our uh client representatives come back up and address those. Other questions?

Okay. No, but I do believe that we may have some members of our board up here that do play. So, I thought you would be interested to know that they have a really more than just a normal uh interest. Thank you. I think we're all set. Um if if the board has no other questions u for Jim just want to wrap up. John if you want to just come up for a minute this is the

Hi everyone. I'm John Turge also one of the investors and uh and manager of the uh pickle ball club. Um, and could you just briefly describe the sport of Padell and how it's different from pickle ball? I think everyone's familiar with pickle ball, but maybe not Fidel so much.

Yeah. So, um, Padell uh, or paddle is uh, the fastest growing sport in the world. Um, and um, I I saw some faces, right? I did not know that a year ago either. Uh, it started in Mexico. um uh went over to uh basically southern Europe. Spain is the largest right now um grouping of pedel courts uh in the world and because of the popularity and I think it became popular for several reasons and I'll explain with the game in a minute. One is it's not hard to pick up, especially if you have a tennis or racket background or squash background. Um, it is played on a astroturf uh surface, so quieter. It's played basically with a tennis ball. It's a it's a modified tennis ball that Wilson and Head and all the manufacturers have. And it's played with a a foam core paddle, very similar to platform tennis that I think everyone knows about. There's a bunch of courts here, Jamestown, Newport Country Club. Um, it's always played in doubles

and it is from a impact. It's lower impact than tennis or squash certainly or even paddle because of the surface of the paddle court. Um you know orthopedic doctors love paddle because of it the the way it stops uh you know when you're when you're driving on it. Um so um and the game is a much more of a patience game. You can play it off the wall. So the reason for those 14t walls is you can play it off the walls similar to u platform tennis and if you have tried it which I now have several times it is addicting and um and it's for all ages. Uh I was traveling in Europe uh visiting my son and we were in Barcelona. They have something like 25 courts up in the Olympic village. All of them were packed and it's all families that people you play for an hour, hour and a half. It's it's really a social game and it it is in keeping as my partner said when we thought of this building you know we thought of of extending the community nature of of that building. It's always been you know uh uh you know nightclub. I I way before me, I know it was a bowling alley. Then then it was uh you know the beloved movie theater and here we are now with a community hub. I mean that building could have been a lot of different things, right? But it's still for us, you know, the center of a community. Uh we have a lot of people of all ages and now it's an extension to have it outside which you know um traditionally it is both pickball and pedel an outdoor game. We brought it inside because of weather and noise but now we've hopefully convinced you guys that we have been very thoughtful in how we want to go do this outside and it's really for the betterment of the

community but also for our members and guests. Right. Thank you. Sorry. Uh, Mr. Deurge, I don't know if I got that right. You did. Great. Not a lot of people do. So, I understand that you're the manager of the facility. I wonder if you would be um willing to prepare an operations and management plan for the outdoor property that would be filed with the town that would address uh hours of operation, decorum of the player of the participants, how many can be out there at one time.

Yep. reasonable efforts to um address noise issues and training of staff that oversees it. Yeah. No, no problem. In in fact, what you're asking for is actually an addendum to what exists today in our facility. So, in our facility, we have an event center, we have uh nine courts, we have a restaurant, and we have all of those uh operational uh manuals. And so what you're asking for has already been started if not completed which is the operational for the outside. So yes. Thank you. No problem. Anything else questions?

You guys only have the pickle ball courts inside right now, right? Correct. Well, no, no, we have one indoor pedel court. Yeah, which some of you have when you visited the site visit, you saw it in there. It's a it's a I will say it's a nonconforming court because of the ceiling height. So, it's really what we call a development court for people to come in and try it and learn it. Uh it's a big volley game. Um it does have a height restriction inside. This allows us to be a conforming two conforming courts. Good. Thank you. All right. Uh does the board have any other questions?

Any other questions? I think we're good. All right. Thank you. Uh well, I believe we've addressed um sufficiently the criteria for both the special use permit and the minor land development project approval. Um I appreciate the board's questions and feedback and I think our client is uh definitely willing to take those into account and uh hopefully address any remaining questions or concerns that you had which were discussed. Um and uh that's all I have. Um thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Um at this point, uh there are no other comments or questions from the board. We can open it up to the public. Is there any member of the public who would like to speak?

Have a um Kim Blast, Compton View Drive. I just have a couple questions on this. Um, my first question is, is this um, I hear club, I hear membership. Do you have to be a member of this or can anybody come? I know you would have to pay, but you have to be a member or become a member of this. Not been uh, yeah, talking to a microphone. Yeah, you do not. We're open to the public. So you're open to the public. Anybody can

in fact I would tell you the from a utilization of the courts we track it and I would say it's almost 50% of the people who use our courts are non-members. The only reason for membership there's really one um uh reason you would get a member. The biggest reason is you can you can book a court early. Oh okay. That's it. If you wanted to walk in right now you could go and play. Okay. I just want to make sure it's for the community. Club is a misnomer. We like the acronym NPC. It's it's on some t-shirts. Newport pickup club. Yeah. No, I just heard club and membership. I was thinking is this you have to join.

No, the only reason you would do member uh be a member is really to get an earlier court. Okay. Courts book up on a weekend. You cannot get a court. So members are 10 days in advance they can book a court. Okay. Thank you. Um, I just have another question. Um, I know the planning board and the town council approved when they put in Starbucks and I'm hearing from the town council even today the parking lot, citizens bank and Starbucks and how it is unbelievable how to get in and out of there. It's it's just um a disaster really.

This is you're talking a different area now. I know, but I know, but this is this is my question here. Um, Home Depot in the summertime is very very busy and now you're opening this up and there's going to be a lot more cars if it's um if this is all approved coming in that shopping center and going through and and it's tough coming through Home Depot. You have to be very very careful. And I know at night time when they had the movie theater there, you can get in and out at nighttime it was not a problem. But like I said, Home Depot, that parking lot is packed in the summertime. And I'm just wondering, is there a is there going to be um better coming in and going out of that parking lot because there are going to be a lot more people. And I I can tell you this, the the area that you referred to has its own special circulation problems. The planning board did not approve that plan.

Okay. I'm sorry then, but I know the town council keep talking about it has it has created it has created a traffic problem. Okay. I don't see that happening here. Okay. I I just want to make sure because circulation is quite different. there's going to be a lot more cars coming in and out of there. So, I'm just worried about, you know, all the traffic in and out of there. Circulation pattern is quite different. Quite different. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, BJ.

Yeah. Uh speaking of such things uh in that area of Starbucks, we were all intrigued about the circulation. And I specifically, I didn't mean to make it sound silly, said uh to the developer, I said, "Would you please pretend that I'm a car and that I'm going to go in and I'm going to want to go to A and B and C." and he looked at me and he said, "I can't do it." I was absolutely astounded. And that's what's, you know, I'm not surprised that uh everyone's having problems there because even the developer said to me, you know, can't, you know, can't even pretend that I'm a car.

Any other questions? I know you had one.

Hi, I'm Martha Kosiara from Miller Street in Middletown. Um, I came here for a couple of reasons. I probably spent years of my life in that building because a friend of mine and my husband's built it, the late Lefty Reapa. And I went through all the different iterations when Lefty uh imagined it first as the bowling alley and then it became Yeah, we do miss our movies. That's for sure. Nobody really wants to go to Fall River. Um on the west side. That's Oh, by the way, best rendering I've ever seen. Fabulous. Um it's it really is. It's fabulous. Thank you. We appreciate that. Um, on the west side, the west wall, on the other side of that wall is the Chase's estates. And those homes have been there for decades and decades. In fact, when my father-in-law first retired from the Navy, he had one of those houses while he was building his own house. And to this day, I have friends who live in there. and this the impact of the sound when you're talking about four different courts which could all be in use simultaneously. I don't think depending upon the variables like wind and that sort of thing and because it is outdoors you can't count on the sound just going in one projected area. It's not necessarily going to be focused. So you could in fact have some impacts um from the outdoor courts um on the people who are in Chase's estates. Those those houses are pretty tight together. And I'm just wondering since you do not have a landscaping plan for the arborite

along the west side, could a a type of baffling sound baffle be put in after the fact if the neighbors start to complain? And I'm losing my voice again. You did say you were amendable to making changes if they were necessary. I did and I think that's a good comment. If they start burning you in effigy, you wanna, you know, do something about like mitigating the noise for the people and and I want them to burn John first. But

um no, I like as I said before, um we're part of the community. We do not want to be a nuisance to our neighbors. We acknowledge that pickle ball rat tat is not a sound you want to hear in your home or even in your backyard. And so if our neighbors discover that what you're describing happens, we will take measures. They're not going to have to come to you on bended knee and beg. Well, they'll have to tell us that it's happening, but they will not have to come to us on bended knee and beg because if we're not a good neighbor in this community, we're not going to have members. Yeah. And the reason I bring that up too is because that is one of the rare

Move in please. I beg you pardon. That's one of the rare rare neighborhoods in Middletown that kind of serves both ends of life. Those homes are small. They're more affordable for young families starting out. And you also have a lot of older people who that's going to be their last residence beyond, you know, assisted living or something like that. So, you know, noise could be a factor. Um, the other thing, do you see what I have here? I do.

Okay. All right. So, one of the reasons I was very interested in who was purchasing this building, um, I did do some research because I wanted to find out what the overall intent was for this area because it's so close to the middle proposed Middletown Center. and I found out about Chuck Irving and he's a a very successful super duper developer mostly throughout as far as I know Massachusetts and I did my mother's best friend lived in Springfield most of her life and so I was interested in learning that he built the MGM casino in Springfield and also built and owns much of the abuing property surrounding it. Um, and I found this online and this is this is pretty nice, too. This is something I can see you doing. It's got the renderings and that sort of thing. And it talks about something called um his his main street corridor and it's the armory district with retail shops and that sort of thing. and it's built around the um the very famous Springfield Armory. And so I found myself looking at this and then I found this, Mr. Irving, which was an interview that you did with a newspaper in in Springfield where you were talking about your vision for that area, which kind of sounds like this. And I'm wondering if there's application to Middletown, too, because you you talked about the proposed Davenport Square area being a short walk from MGM Casino in Springfield.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Uh, could you make your comments related related to I am making my point. May I finish? I am making my point.

Please hurry then. I've only said about eight sentences. It says here, "The entire reason we invested there was the MGM Casino and Mr. Irving is or was a member of the board of directors of MGM and also Vichy Properties. The entire reason we have numerous tenants calling us up saying they want to be involved with the project such as this is because of the casino. And my question is what I'm worried about is given your history is have there been discussions about bringing an MGM casino to this area

suggest that that's not before that's not before the board tonight. Um that's not relief um or a project that we're seeking approval of. Um and there is an existing very successful indoor facility which you toured uh at the site visit. Um and this is simply um an outdoor expansion to allow for some outdoor recreation in addition to the existing indoor courts and I believe a casino is not allowed in that zone anyway.

Any other members of the public? Thank you. Come up. Hi, how are you? Uh, my name is Selene Angier Mitchell's Lane. Um, it was unclear from Sorry, it's gone from the Oh, there you are. the the rendering. Yeah. Um, appreciating the community aspect of this, the fitness. Did you speak into the microphone?

Sorry. The appreciating the community aspect of this. Um, the fitness. Um, I'm also a fan of your restaurant. I love that meatball. It in the presentation here, it's unclear like are people driving up and then walking to the to these courts? Are they going inside and then coming out a certain door? I know that there are doors on on this side of the building, but it's unclear in this rendering and in the proposal like how that would happen. Um, the safety of the walkways to this space. Um, so I'd be curious about that. Um, and then the hours of operation weren't clear. It said it would go till 9:00 p.m. Um, but when does this start in the morning? Um, how many days a week? And what's the seasonality on it? What months are you expecting to be open?

Hi, how are you? I'm Chuck. Hi, Chuck. Sling. Um, once again, good questions. Um, we are going to have all people go through the main entrance of the property. There will be a gate in that open space that you see. What we're trying to do is not create an attractive nuisance. You know, we do not want to encourage kids from the neighborhood to come over and play around on the or skateboard or anything else. So, that will be a very private area and the only way you can get to it is through going through the main entrance of the building. and then walking to it outside and as my attorney just reminded me our hours are till

well indoor facilities open until 10. Correct. Correct. What what time do you open? Done. Okay. And then when you will you be when will you be booking in the outdoor courts? We'll probably mirror that. I mean, we'll have our staff there, so we would want to make it available whenever we're staffed up. So, from 7 am to 10 pm at night. Yeah, if that's acceptable. Okay. There are other there was another time at 9:00 p.m. Okay. Like a little um u Yeah, sorry.

I think the comment about 9:00 p.m. was that they didn't anticipate uh play on the outdoor courts regularly past 9, but um again, the the hours inside are till 10. So, um we're not necessarily um suggesting that we be limited um until 9:00 only. Okay. Are you saying your outdoor hours will go to 10:00 also?

That's stated. I'm I'm I'm going to be opposed to 10 p.m. I think 9:00 p.m. is appropriate given the neighborhood. Um so my client would agree to that as a condition of approval. Thank you.

And so you're coming out the side doors here to go to your courts. Um, and that would just be for people who are booked on the court. Are other people allowed to to sit in there and hang out? Is it a hangout in community space? Can I sit out there with food and drink? Are people going to be ordering food and drink out there? I can sit out there, but can I order food and drink? Use the mic. Use the mic. I'm sorry. Your name again? screen

you um so to Chuck's point, this is this will be cut off. You'll come out through the doors. They'll be sitting in here and again open to the public. So if you wanted to come out and enjoy the outside, watch someone play, um you're welcome to do that. We are fully open to the public. Okay. And but food and drink served from your Yeah. Okay. So you would just take it yourself and bring it out there? go out and we'll probably have weight staff that'll take an order and and bring it to you as a service probably. So, there's dining out here. Is there alcohol? Is there

We have an alcohol license. So, we would have it extend uh to the out. We if someone wants to take a a drink outside, you know, it would be allowed. Can I just can I just We're not seeking an outdoor sales alcohol license. We're going to sell all of our alcohol from the inside in the existing bars that exist today. And if somebody wants to take a, you know, a beer and sit by the court and drink sip their beer and watch it, then that's something we'd like to encourage. But we will not be serving and creating a bar outside. Um, and with the glass with the the glass walls when people play, I was very intrigued to hear about this uh fast growing sport. Um, is there any potential for the balls to go over the lake there and like and are they all staying on your property? Are they going in?

There's definitely there's definitely times when the ball can go over. It's unusual, but there is definitely times it can go over like a tennis court.

Got it. Okay. Um, and then the arbor vites for the the landscaper. Uh, the you said the lights are 21 ft tall. They're down lit, so they're dark sky compliant. And the arbor vites at installation, how tall are you expecting them to be? And then like at like lifetime growth, like how tall are they going to be? Um so at installation there's six to seven feet um which is the minimum requirement and then um you know an average or upper vite can be 15 to 20 ft. It depends you know how they're maintained.

I think the council may want to ask more about the food and drink outside. I I I feel like there's um restrictions around just walking outside with food and drink that isn't served outside. You know, the patio laws, all all of that. I I don't know what they are. It just is a concern in my mind.

This is what I intended when I said that part of the management and operations manual will deal with uh decorum of guests outside which would include eating and and drinking and smoking. So, so even um with food and drink that's if it's alcohol licensed I can just walk out of the door of a building and as long as I'm on the property I'm allowed to drink that drink as far as I know

that a problem. So the assuming this is approved this outdoor area they'll have to comply with the existing uh zoning law and if they want to serve alcohol outside or serve food outside then they may need to apply to the town council for an extension of their liquor license or an extension of their evictionling license. However, there's not necessarily um anything that I'm presently aware of that would prohibit someone who orders a drink inside from taking it themselves in their own valition and sitting and watching someone uh hit paddle on the court. Now, you know, that may be something that's prohibited by the ordinance, but before they engage in that activity, I would encourage their counselor uh to look into that and make a determination as to whether they need to apply for an extension uh of their liquor license. Um, but it's either permitted or prohibited by existing law and this application won't change that in any way.

Okay. And then the the seasonality again of the the courts, like what months are you expecting this to be open?

So any outdoor court is weather dependent. No one's playing in the winter. We think this will go probably eight months. Um but we do have people I know in Holland Park and others. They they're playing today, right? So, what is it? March 11th, right? So, it's like a golf course. If the if the weather's there, weather's there and people are willing to go put gloves on, the courts will be open and ready. Um, but realistically, I'm guessing it's probably eight or nine months. Got it. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Anyone else from the public who wishes to speak?

Anyone online? Run. Anyone online wishing to speak? Uh, you can raise your hand. We have a motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Motion is made and seconded to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Oppos? Nay.

Chair votes I. Motion passes. Public hearing is closed. Uh so uh we are voting to um give a special permit give approval for a special permit for outdoor courts subject to um now the TRC had no conditions but we have at least three or four that we've mentioned right could you go through those Ron so the conditions that I've noted are um that the applicant will be responsible for uh monitoring the sound levels after the courts are in operation and address through some form of mitigation any concerns that are raised.

Mhm. Um second one I have is uh Steve's comment about wanting to see an operations plan or policies document. Mhm. Third one I have is a re revised landscaping plan to add um green space to the revised landscaping plan that you have tonight. So a further revised landscaping plan. Yes. that add green space to the two areas. The area uh between the building and the west end of the pickle ball court and the uh the 20 foot uh no man's land in the back north end

north side north end north end. Then the fourth one is uh the requirement that the outdoor courts will cease operations at 9:00 p.m. 9 p.m. Yeah. So may I have a motion then to approve the special use permit for outdoor courts subject to the four conditions that were just mentioned? So moved. Second. I have a motion that is made and seconded to approve the special use permit for outdoor courts subject to the conditions is there any and the findings and the findings. Thank you. Um is there any further discussion?

Second. Uh no

no I I I just wanted I had two areas that just a general comments right number one there's been great given give and take and discussion tonight and items brought up for discussion and clarification um that I think by the applicant and the public that are greatly appreciated and I'm sure everyone on the board feels the same way um in looking at the the parcel size and the area that's impacted in the development statement. If the courts are 7,000 to 7,500 ft, the initial landscape plan had 800 square ft of additional pvious area. I see a pvious area going from from and Lynn, you can correct me from zero today, right? There's zero pvious on that site today if I'm correct. Right. All right. I see it going in the original plan to 46.1% if the courts are pvious and now with recommendations and modifications it's probably going to be over 50%. To me I applaud the developers for that. Going from 0 to 50 is I've sat on this planning board off and on for maybe seven years now the most I've seen. So kudos to that. The second thing I want to mention is you know we talk about the use bowling alley cinema and now paddle courts and there was a little discussion about the developers resume and I just want to say um being involved in retail development being able to successfully redevelop retail into some sort of an experience-based retail where you activate the outside area is what makes retail successful today. So, you know, when there's concern over noise and lighting and, you know, uh

landscape area, I go to Home Depot at least once a week and I'm I'm I'm uh scratch my head thinking Chase's estates. Um I haven't heard a whole lot of comments about noise and impact from Home Depot. and I've been in there and that place is cranking busy. Um, but activating the outside place places with the courts for the public to me is is applaudable and um I just couldn't be more in favor of the application with the conditions that we've set forth.

I also want to thank uh Mr. Diverge and Mr. Irving for their accommodations tonight. Other comments? Uh, I too would like to express my appreciation to the willingness to cooperate with the plan important. Much appreciated. No further comments. All those in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Nay. Chair votes. I. Motion passes. Now you need to a motion to approve the land development project. Motion to approve the land development project. You've approved the zoning relief that's required. Now you need to approve the plan. Oh, may I have that motion, please? So moved. Second.

Motion is made and seconded to the same conditions and findings. Findings. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Oppos? Nay. Chair votes I. Motion passes. Thank you and good luck. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you everyone. And uh Mike, if you could prepare a decision for the board. Sure. And if you need any help with the forms for that, contact Ron's office. I'll prepare a draft and uh start filling. Thank you.

Next item on the agenda is item 5A, review of discussion topics for the March 16th joint meeting with the town council. Um now before we get into discussion I want to mention why um I asked Ron to put this back on the agenda. Um there were two reasons why I want this on the agenda. First is to allow input from the two new members who have not had input to this document before. But the second reason is the more important reason in my mind, and that is that I think every item on this list that we submit to the town council should have a champion on the planning board, someone who's willing to speak up and exchange comments with the town council on it. And I mentioned that because two of the items on this list were uh put there by uh one of the members who is no longer on the planning board. And uh I want to find out uh do we have a champion for these items now or should we remove them? Those two items are numbers.

Four and six. Six and seven. I'm sorry. Seven and eight. Seven and eight. Seven and eight. So I will ask if there's anyone here who feels um that seven and eight should be retained. Yes, I'll be the champion for seven. Seven. Okay. How about for eight? Eight has to do with the uh development impact fees. I'll take eight.

You'll take eight. Okay. So, uh, if the council asks questions, champions should step up and be ready to have discussion. Who's the champion for number four? May I ask? I am, if no one else is. Who's Who's for number two? Number two. Uh, I I think the whole board has housing as a priority and the council has housing as a priority, so we felt it had to go on there. Okay. I feel like that's one and two are very any other questions or any other input from the new members. I think this is a good list.

Yeah, go ahead. I want a second. I'm not comfortable having this uh be discussed um at regular meeting of the council. And I say that for several reasons. I'm not sure how that would work with us sitting up there and then going back and forth through the dis. The way it's generally been done in the past, it's a special meeting and we all sit around with each other and I think we get a lot more information because I'll talk about say it's my turn to talk about something, okay? And I talk about it and then Mr. Hutler says, "You know, right, I just thought of something too." and we get more of a dynamic about the things we're that are important and and the conversation flows and then it flows back. So, we're getting we're putting it out and we're getting it back. And I I think that's Ron. Am I wrong that we have haven't we done that an awful lot of times? Um I believe you're right that at least one of the joint meetings was a special meeting. Um this is before the regular meeting so it's I mean you could consider it a special meeting. I don't know that I mean it's just terminology but yeah you'll have a dedicated amount of time uh to talk with the to the town council.

I think art's concern is has more to do with the setup of everyone sitting around the same table so that we could have a dynamic discussion.

No. So I don't have any control over that. That that's up to the council. But but I I also agree with Mr. Weber. Um if if it's to be a um mo maximally effective discussion with the town council, there's got to be a format that facilitates give and take and back and forth and with someone at the podium and and up here. And I I don't think it is as natural. It's certainly more awkward and I don't think it would be as as as as productive. Um, and so I I I think that it would be behoove us to ask the town council if we could not do it on this coming Monday, but find a time when the two boards can meet together and for, you know, an 90 minutes to go through a list of questions. We're doing the new comprehensive plan. We ask about housing, but we don't ask about economic development. We don't ask about transportation. We don't ask about open space or cultural or historic resources. There's so many things we haven't covered in here.

Historic resources. Yeah. There are some issues that um are um crit critically important to to to discuss such as extension of water to the east side where there are no hydrants. We haven't addressed housing from the perspective of what's coming in terms of Noah and Naval War College and so on. So, I think um I think if we really want to have a helpful discussion where we're informing the town council as to our thoughts and concerns and where they're hearing uh where we're hearing their priorities, it a different format would be very helpful.

So, let me ask you this, Ron. Um, could it be um, first of all, if we did it on the 16th, could we have a roundt type setup? No. Not saying no. I'm saying it's not my call. I think probably the I would suggest that if you would either like to consider a different date or consider the setup of the room that perhaps the chairman could contact the council president and have that discussion. I would be happy to. So, and excuse me and open on a on a regular Monday. Why couldn't we meet on a Saturday?

We'll find a We'll find a date. Okay. So, I I will have the discussion with the council president about um setting up a special meeting where we could have a round table set up for a dynamic discussion. That okay with the board? Yeah. Right on, Bros. Okay. So, I'll have that discussion and um why don't you notify Wendy that we will seek a new time for our joint meeting? Okay. Or do you want to wait and talk to Paul first before I tell her anything? You can tell her that we won't we won't meet we will not have the joint meeting on the 16th. Okay.

And that we will be seeking a new date. Um and let me talk with Paul about the setup. Okay. That okay with everyone? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Very good. Thank you, Art. Uh, so before I leave this item, are we in agreement that at least we will delete item eight on this list? Item eight. Wait, delete item eight. Wasn't I taking that one? I thought you were taking seven. Oh, you you were No, Art

is taking seven. Taking eight. I'm sorry. You're right, Matt. My mistake. Okay. Okay. So, um, well, now the memo stays as it is, Ron, and I will talk with, uh, Paul and get back to you, right? Okay. Anything else on this item? Do we do we have the ability to add anything to this or like Well, this is the time to speak up. I mean, Steve mentioned transportation and I feel like

let me let me uh point one thing out. all of the things. I mean, Steve mentioned a long list of things and and we're routinely involved with all of these things. It's not like we don't address them. Okay. Uh Ron reports every meeting on transportation that he's that his group is working on. So, it's not like we're doing nothing on. So, I the the purpose of this memo was to try to highlight our priorities as we see them and we expect to hear excuse me what the town council's priorities are. Okay. Okay. Good enough. Good enough.

Okay. Anything else on this item? No. Okay. Moving on.

Second. Next item is um item 6D, discussion and recommendation to the town council on proposed amendments to Middletown zoning ordinance to uh town code chapter 152 to address legislation adopted in the 2025 session of the Rhode Island General Assembly, including bills H5796, H5797, H579 98 propos proposed amendments to section 400 602 603 604 728 and adding a new section 731. Um Ryan, you want to give some background?

Yeah, I'll just I'll run through this quickly. So, this is the uh second set of amendments coming from the uh 2025 legislative session. So, you've already um dealt with a bunch of those that have been forwarded on to the council. So, this is the last group of amendments um that you'll be considering to send to the council as a result of last year's legislation. Uh regarding bill 7, I'm sorry, 5796. Um, that bill requires or prohib I should say it prohibits single family zoning in areas of town that have public sewer and water. Um we in most of the town don't have that issue in any areas where there's public storm water for the most part are areas and zoning districts that allow for e either uh two family or multif family housing where we run into a problem um with the new with the new statute is there are portions in the R60 zoning district that are served by public sewer or public water um where only single family housing is require or allowed. So that would be in conflict with the new statute. The proposed amendment uh to address that would be to amend the use table to allow two family dwellings in the R60 district by special use permit. So having it by special use permit, there is still that level of oversight. It would be an allowed use, but would require um someone to come to the board or or to the zoning board most likely um to uh seek a special use permit. Any questions on that one?

I I just Hold on, Matt. I I have a question. Um these co-l livingiving um I haven't gotten to that one yet. Okay. Can you have your So, well, can you just explain very briefly the difference between a special use permit and a um just by right, I guess since um well, by right is is as it sounds that um there's no need to seek um approval for the use. It's a use that's allowed. You don't need to ask to be a So, why are we not allowing these other housing types by right? That's entirely up to the to the town. Um, you can allow whatever housing you wish, not you, but the the town the town council ultimately

um has the ability to make whatever changes to the zoning ordinance that you would like. Um, this amendment is simply addressing what we're required to do as a result of the legislation. Okay. Well, isn't it interesting that the biggest lots, the R50 60 people don't have in many cases town water or public sewer. So, they're they're exempt from anything to do with affordable housing just because of that situation. Well, it makes it more challenging to do higher density housing because of the lack of utilities,

right? So once I get my dream and we have running water in those districts and public sewer, we can then put all these little houses in there just to torment them. How's that?

The the I mean to Ron's to Ron's point that that was pretty good. But um to Ron's point, you have to have a certain density to actually justify having sewer and water. There's a reason why Portsouth doesn't have sewer and has water. It costs more to install it than to, you know, if you have only so many hookups, you're never going to actually pay off the sewer charge. And it's going to be a burden on the other people of the town subsidizing those very low density neighborhoods that do not have well that have sewer if they were allowed to.

Well, if we can stick with this idea just for another minute. I find it hard to believe we have never put fire hydrants in in the entire town. Number one, not only for fire safety, but what about the poor schmuck whose well fails? What's he supposed to do? Dig another well or move out? So, I think those two uses, fire protection and a potential loss of water from a well, are important. And I also think we need an inspection system of all the people who do not have public sewer. I mean, it's not the year 1200 over there. I mean, and it's easy to set up. I've been up to Portsmith and I see how they do it. We can do it and it's just sitting there as an issue. It will never happen, but I'm going to keep going. I have a lot.

You're right. It will never happen. You're right. It will never happen. But it should. Yeah. I I know it should I agree with what you're saying especially about fire safety. By the way, there is a there are hydrants some places on the west side on the east side rather. Well, Mr. Hagle lives in one of those those places over there where So, Ron, can you just give a quick overlay um of how you compared these? Is this following directly state law or is it following um like we have precedents in what the town already has for these other already approved things and then we're just kind of following the same

general understanding like the lot sizes and setbacks and all that like did you just base it off previous town ordinance? So for this particular item single all all that's changing is allowing two family dwellings in the R60 by special use permit. That's all that's changing. Um, no changes to dimensional

60 district. Okay. I mean, I would like, this doesn't have to be tonight. Just my personal opinion. I would like to see in the future further discussions allowing more housing other than single family and maybe not the lowest density. Is lowest density R60 or R10? R60.

R60. Maybe not the R60, but the R10 and maybe the R20 allow more of these housing types by right. Doesn't have to be talked about tonight. I know we're running out of time, but um I I think we approve this tonight if and then we have discussion maybe in the R10 and R20 to allow duplexes or triplexes or multifamily housing by right at a later date. Been there, been there, done that. Um, so that's currently a provision that that the planning board is still working on. It was on tonight's agenda, but needs to be continued because we're waiting from some lang waiting for some language from the solicitor's office. Um, but the the But you're right on. He's right on. I mean, we're

planning board has suggested to the town council that multif family housing be allowed in the um R10 and R20 and now our I think R30 has also put on the table. So that's that's great. So you'll see a modification very shortly as soon as a solicitor addresses the wording. Thank you guys. Not necessarily the assistant solicitor. Any other comments

on that part? Okay, proceed Ron. So then the next one has to do with co-l livingiving housing. So this is a specific definition that's been added to the state uh statute that we have to include within our um zoning ordinance. And also the statute specifies um that we need to allow uh or we have the option of allowing co-l livingiving housing uh within within the town. It's very similar but not exactly the same as congregate housing. So we already allow congregate housing. Um, so what I've done is obviously had to insert the new definition for co-living housing and then within the use table have the use uh that new use allowed consistent basically with where congregate housing is allowed. So trying to be consistent there.

Ron, what's what's the difference between this and ADUs that are attached? ADU is a separate dwelling unit. So congregate housing and co-living housing are are situations where you've got rooms that are let to individuals that have a common kitchen or common living area. Um so you're basically renting a room, a bedroom and you're you're whereas ADUs have all the facilities. ADU is a separate dwelling unit. Well, but they they can be attached though. ADUs can be attached. Yeah. An accessory dwelling unit just has all of the living facilities ordinary. So this is more like a dorm if similar. Similar. Okay. Okay.

So again, it's it's one of these things where we have to comply with the state law in terms of adopting that language into the ordinance. We're already part of the way there by the fact that we already allow congregate housing, which is very similar. It's just a matter of getting that language to jive with the um with the state law. Couldn't make this less complex, huh? Couldn't makes it less complex. Comments. the comments. So, we have to make a recommendation to the town council to adopt these changes. One more though. One more.

Um, so the third one, and this is regarding bill 5798, requires that we allow attached fingle single family dwellings, which is kind of the way the way that it's defined is kind of a contradiction. It's basically what we would think of as town houses, which often people think of as multif family housing, but under the again the state definition, it's it's considered attached single family dwellings. So basically town houses and as part of that, we have to allow for each of those town houses to have its own separate lot. So right now when we allow in town a townhouse to be developed. It's basically a condominium situation where you've got the town houses on a single piece of property. There may be exclusive condominium use areas dedicated to each of those units, but it's not a separate legal lot.

State law now requires that we allow for separate legal lots. Why does this aid in housing? I can't answer that. Um I you know I think they think it covers all bases. I think the just I think the reason is if you have like two two adjacent lots that are small and we can't build well the town can't approve via zoning laws a large condominium on one singular lot. If you have like two smaller lots next to each other you can build two town houses like one two that wouldn't conform to our current zoning laws from my understanding.

Well that that would work. Yeah, if you've got small existing lots, but this this also allows for subdivision of larger lots for this for this same situation. So, and it and and because they're attached units, it we also have to allow for zero zero lot lines. So, zero what? Sorry, a zero lot line. No setbacks um between the building and the lot line. Yeah. Because obviously the units are connected. So, the lot line is going to go basically on the wall. a shared a shared wall, right? Yeah. Okay.

So, that that's also provided in the amendments um stipulating that there is that provision to allow for zero lot lines, zero setbacks. Um again, it's it's it's one of these things that you know it's the the question is required by the state. We have to do it. Y so we should make a recommendation to the town council to adopt these changes. That would be the action. Yes. So, may I have such a motion, please? So moved. Second. Motion is made and seconded to recommend to the town council to adopt these changes to comply with state laws. There any further discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

Oppos? Nay. Chair votes I. Motion passes. Next item is u item six, committee reports, tree commission. Oh uh yes. um could put down April 25th. The the uh tree commission is establishing a work party at the Albero Woods and everyone is invited to help. There'll be more information coming out as the time goes on. So that's April 25th.

What are they going to do to Alfur Woods now? The trees down or what? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're cleaning they are cleaning up Alber Alber Woods. Okay. Um, I skipped over the uh project status report. I'll come back to that. Skip the number. Please wait. Don't speak unless you're recognized. Sorry.

Um, the next is open space and fields committee. We have to appoint a new member. Uh, that member will be uh Charlie Valanc Court. He will be our representative to open space and fields conservation commission. Uh Matt, you're going to now be the uh planning board representative. Yours is a special case from these other ones because on the conservation commission, even though you're a planning board representative, you are a voting member of the commission. Yep. Okay. Well, watch out. Oh, they don't have a quorum right now. So, it's we're trying to actually create a new date in order to facilitate that quorum, which I guess I would be part of since I'm a voting member.

Yeah. You're a voting member, so you're a part of the quorum. Yes. Yeah. Uh and the um the Middletown Center Citizens Advisory Committee, the new representative from the planning board will be uh Steve Hutler. So, I've I've got a question. Well, why you got a goddamn planning board and why do you have a citizens advisory group sitting out there and because the council I don't know you can ask the council when we get together with

Okay. Uh the project status report. Does anyone have any comments on the project status report? Um, by the way, Ron, uh, um, since we're going to, um, move the meeting, will the traffic guidelines still be held on, uh, Monday, Monday's town council meeting? I guess that that would be all right. So, I will be there for that uh, discussion. Okay. Okay. Any other comments uh, to bring before the board? You have a motion to adjurnn, please move.

Second. Motion is made and seconded to adjurnn. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. Oppose. Nay. Meetings adjourned.