Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good evening, every everyone. Welcome to the Middleborough Finance Committee meeting on 04/09/2026 held in the small conference room at Middleborough Town Hall, 10 Nicholson Ave. We are being recorded by MCAM for broadcast on Verizon and Comcast. It is 07:00. I will call this meeting to order.

Please join me for the pledge pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We will start the finance committee meeting with reorganization. I will take a motion to nominate a member for the position of chair. Are there any motions?

I nominate. The motion. Bob Sullivan.

Okay. Mister mister Sullivan has been nominated. I have I have a second by miss mister Phillips. Any discussion on the motion and second on mister Sullivan? Hearing none. I'll take a second call for chair of finance committee. Hearing none, I'll take a third call on chair for finance committee. No other nominations will take a roll call vote. Eric Machado? On mister Sullivan's nomination and second. Aye. Mister Alan Kirchner. Aye. Mister Nate DeMers. Aye. Mister Bob Sullivan. Aye. Mister John Barela. Aye. Mister Matt Phillips.

Aye. Congratulations, mister Sullivan. You are the chair. Thank you. Congratulations. And you now get to have all the mail.

I'll go off speaking to my thanks for this. We'll move on to the vice chair. Do we have any nominations for vice chair?

I nominate Matt Phillips for vice chair.

There's been a nomination for Matt Phillips, the vice chair. Do we have a second? We've had a nomination for Matt Phillips, the vice chair. Do we have a second? I'll have a second call? A second call for nomination for vice chair.

I nominate Nate Demers. Second.

We have a nomination for Nate Demers for vice chair of the Middleborough Finance Committee. I have a third call for nominations for the vice chair. Last call for the third call for the vice chair. Then we'll move on.

So we'll have a motion to the nomination is for Nathan Demirs as vice chair of the finance committee. Roll

call, Matt Phillips?

Nay.

Mister Barella? Nay. Mister Machado? Aye. Prushner? Allen? Aye. Nathan Demirs? Aye. Bob Sullivan, aye. Congratulations mister Demers. Thank you. Is the secretary something that we just appoint or just reappoint or

I believe so. Yes.

Yes. So I would like to make I I would set the motion to have Jessica McEnough be the secretary for the finance committee for the next next year. Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you, Jessica.

Yes. Thank you, Jessica.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So the next item on the agenda is the approval of minutes. We have the March 30 03/30/2026. We have a motion for discussion to accept these minutes.

So moved.

Discussion. Second.

Bob, sorry. What was mister chair, what

was the date on those? March 30 Monday, 03/30/2026. Okay.

Got it.

I believe we have a second. Is this is there any discussion? I would just like to add an item. Number four, it's e. I believe it's the word is least and not least. Chia Machado, and it's on the end of the first sentence. And on the f under the number four, four sentence down, I believe the term would have been stabilization and not the stability funds.

I got a new computer. No. I don't know. Like, I went from Google to Microsoft Word, and it's been a week. We're delayed. It's been two weeks with this. I'm like, you might think I never did it, but the templates, when they cross, they're a little wonky, so I apologize for that.

All in favor of the March?

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Okay. Unanimous. And the next set of minutes is the Monday, 04/02/2026. Do we have a motion to accept these?

So moved.

Second. You got that, Jessica? Yep. Are there is there any discussion on the April? There are none. All in favor? Aye. Unanimous. Thank you. And there were two time sheets. I don't believe we pulled on those Is there a certain number right? No. Right. I think we've all accepted that. You get a copy of them and we move forward.

So next item on the agenda is the discussion of the FY twenty seven budget with interim town manager, mister Perkins.

Thank you, J. S. Sullivan. I I just as a resident, I just want to point out, I am very happy to see that the select board and this committee have unanimously selected their chairperson. I believe that sends a good message to the community.

I know I'm optimistic about being able to get through this difficult time and I just want to commend all of you and the Select Board's members for unanimously picking your your chair and your de facto leader. So I think as a resident, people need acknowledge the good things too. With that in mind, just an update on what's been taking place. I have met with, myself and the HR department have started the impact bargaining process, under label law. I think it's one fifty e.

We have met with the clerk's union, the police supervisors, police patrol, fire. We have yet to meet with GMEG in the library. We do not have to meet with DPW. As as of right now, the DPW looking at the numbers, DPW is able to give us some vacant position possibilities and expenditures that are cash related versus personnel related. So there is no impact bargaining in vacant positions and or cash, from what we've been told by labor council.

Labor council has been very specific, as I mentioned last week, on the process. The impact buying process begins with, the town, stating factually the position, the financial position, that we're current currently in, try to attempt and demonstrate, the shortfall, and then advise that their employees or their union members may be subject may be subject to layoff. The big thing with that is and I know there's been a lot of commentary in town. Why did the why did they get notified through the union? Because that's the law.

They are met the union members. We follow the, guidance of one fifty e and, collective bargaining agreements. Yes, it is probably a very cold hearted way to hear about it, but unfortunately, that's what's required of us. So again, I wanted to be clear on that. I know there was, you know, people were upset. I've had a difficult couple of days, very emotional with employees. We've offered them EAP. We've offered them the services of the mental health director in town. He's been quite busy. Trying to address it from a human side, it's a lot.

Sitting behind a computer and looking at numbers, not associating people's names with them is a difficult process, and then coming to that number and then actually seeing people find out is horrible, and I've been on that side. But, again, I don't think people have really experienced this. There's very few employees in town that were here and currently working in the '4 for the o five budget. The last time we've experienced this, it was a hiccup, I think, in '10. I don't think there was a lot of personnel issues.

Arriving at the number. As I've said all along, it's a big number. And I think the reality is starting to set in with people that are affected by it. And I've said it before, and it is a process to go through this, and there's a lot of anger right now, first stages of grief, denial, and eventually we'll get to acceptance, but again, acceptance rationalization, however they want to look at it, it's a terrible position to be in. And again, I want to remind everyone in town that people's, livelihood is at stake.

People are very short-tempered, rightfully so. That is not lost on me. I just ask that people consider that.

That's all I have.

Through the chair. If I may take a minute to commend mister Perkins on everything he's done to this point. I think it's worthy of recognition. It's a thankless job he's found himself in right now. I can just about guarantee

that

when this job was offered to you, this was the last thing you expected to have to deal with. I think that you thought, basically, this would entail just keeping the seat warm until we hired a permanent town manager at Jay's replacement. And it's been anything but that. You've been having to face us head on to communicate these uncomfortable truths about these numbers that we find ourselves in, and I think it's worth noting that I can see your emotion right now. It is not lost on you.

And I, for one, am very thankful and grateful that we have you to lead us through these difficult times.

I appreciate your kind words, Matt, but I really want people if there's there's any sympathy and empathy, it needs to be directed towards the people that are gonna get laid off. And that's why I think it's important to understand how we conduct the business. I appreciate the back and forth and, you know, what's going on, But I really, really need think that the town needs to take a time out and get us to town meeting and work through this. Until then, I think that any any distractions as far as, you know, what happened, how we got here, I I understand that. It's it's a lot of people upset about that, but I think we need to hold, pause, and okay.

We need to get through this because probably about approximately I can't put a number, but it's 30 or so people are gonna lose their jobs. It's just difficult. So

I'd like to speak. I'm looking around the chair. So it appears we're gonna be meeting Thursdays. Think that's what we've decided as this goes forward and attending Monday night presentations on Monday. And what is it short term over the next couple of weeks do you see So finance committees?

I I I think I've been thinking about that. Again, I was optimistic that, maybe a little naive that we could show some unity and collaboration, recognizing after that there's a process, a label off process. Again, I mentioned it last week. I don't have the ability to share as much You are the town. The select board members are the town.

And right now, the town is engaged in impact bargaining through the town's representative, which is happens to be me. I think it's important to again, for the anxiety issue of the employees, people hear things or they think they hear things. When they're told actual things, the shock is so much that they're not hearing everything. These are some of the issues that, you know, I've been experiencing this week with with with affected members of the town of Middleborough employee staff. And, again, it's not it's not an attempt to control the narrative.

It's an an attempt to limit the anxiety, and it's I I it's probably like putting the genie back in the bottle. I think we can't do it, and people need to know, But, again, how the process is, it's we're really restricted on how we move forward. And it's a cold hearted process, And we just need to have a little bit of compassion and empathy for the people that are going through it. And I think right now, town leadership, that's the best best thing you could offer them. Make sure that, you know, we have services in place.

It's been a utilized program and process. People are using the EAP. They're using the services of the mental health director. They're trying to figure out how they're gonna pay their mortgage. They're gonna try to figure out what they're gonna do for insurance.

So these are some of the things that they're asking, and it's hard. But we have to get to the number, and trying to balance that cold heartedness with how it's actually gonna affect people is tough. And I really think the town needs to leadership in the town, that's why I mentioned it, the unanimous votes on both boards. That's a step in the right direction. That's what we need to be able to show leadership, show that we're taking it seriously, and we're not distracted by why we're here.

I totally agree and support the why. I can't be involved in the why. I think leadership should be focused on the now, looking forward, and not looking in the rearview mirror until we get to town meeting. Then after that, do whatever you need to do.

So then that framework, the numbers I mean, there was an update, I think, the information online from the other day. I I don't know.

Some Oh, the newsletter?

Not the newsletter. Oh. No. I'm talking about so we don't have the numbers firm enough for us to really wrap our

say this, and I've said this to the union membership. Look at the budgets and you do the math. How do we find $3,300,000? And you need to look at the personnel lines and not associate people with the number. That's what I do in my office, but then I have to go out and see the people.

Mhmm. That's the part that you put a you put a a face and a name to a number, and it's easy to look at numbers. But I think that, again, is your strength as a finance committee to look at numbers and understand to when we do present in a joint session, the final budget and the impacts, you I would lean on you to, as a committee, to have looked at those numbers together and said, okay. What are some things, again, the guiding principles that you're trying to look at? You know, looking at what I've been looking at, that's a professional statement.

I'm looking I see numbers, and I'm I'm trying to from the perspective as a resident, how am I impacted by this? And I think the first the first way I look at it is what department affects the the most number of households and people in the town, and that's one department I don't really have a lot of control over, but that's obviously school department. If they don't have a child in the school, they might have a grandchild or a relative, so the the touch radius to the community is huge. You know, then you look at peep what do people want to enjoy in the town as a taxpayer? They want, you know, to enjoy the for their families to go to soccer games or little league games.

They wanna go to the library and, you know, take take out books or participate in kids programs. You know, they wanna bring a family member to the COA or you you yourself wanna go to the COA. What are the departments that touch the most people in the community? And I think you work from that starting point out. And then, of course, you need to consider, okay, people wanna be feel safe.

They wanna know that they have good public safety departments. So that's how I've been looking at it and trying to be fair with the number versus the people. I keep like, I said it from day one. You can't just say, hey. We have 3,300,000 against 27,000,000 with just the general side of the government at that that's 14%. You can't do do that across the board. You need to look at there may be a 100% cut in a department of two. There may be a 1% cut in a department of two. There may be no cuts in a department. So how do you still get to the number?

And that that's the human element of this looking at it and say, I we still need to provide the services of that department to the people. And how's what's the best way to do that? Forward facing community touch or community radius? That's that's the that's the chore.

I'll continue. Guiding principles, have have we have a standard will we have a standard that the select board are looking at and we're looking at? Or

So I I think, again, being able to present at a joint session and you looking at the numbers and knowing what the number you need to get to to balance the budget, you can do the math. Look at the bottom line of the proposed budget for each department for '27, look at head count, look at what they do, how how how how much do they interact with the community, what's the, their importance of their role. There are some departments that you just everybody needs, and then there's some that okay. That's and there's obvious obvious issues in the budget that can be addressed, I think, just by the common person asking a question. What services that benefit me?

Those things. And, again, most of the people in the community are they don't really understand town government. They just know they wanna go and get their birth certificate. I just wanna go to, you know, the field and watch my granddaughter play softball. I wanna make sure that it's a safe community and when I have a dangerous situations, I wanna make sure that, you know, my neighbor's kids go to school and get a good education.

That's all really it'd pick up my trash. That's all I really want. Obviously, there are some obstacles that we have as a town without a deficit, you know, where they have the most roads, I think, in any community in Massachusetts. You know, we're asking DPW to deep do even less, do even more with less now, but I know that's an issue. People want roads they can drive on that they're not gonna blow a tire on.

These are the things I'm trying to look at from, you know, the human side, the citizen side, and try and make that determination. And it's difficult because the number is big. I'm just talking here. I need this, I guess, cathodic session with you guys moment. But I'm asking you, look at the numbers because when to answer your question, when the night comes, and I think it probably will be April 27, just looking at the timeline, if we're gonna do town meeting on June 1 with Memorial Day in the middle, being able to post a warrant, being able to go over the warrant after presenting a budget, and then having a one week, I think, is the way to time.

One week that, okay, we have a week that this is set, the budget's set, Taumeetin's set. We have a week. We have a holiday. We have a week to decompress, maybe wait for some extra numbers to come in before we actually get to Taumeetin. And then once that warrant's posted, I think it goes as presented.

And, you know, I need to check on the particulars of that and make sure can I if the cherry sheet numbers update in that time, can I last minute add something? But when we present, I think it's important that everybody understand that the approach how the approach was taken, and you looking at the numbers can, you know, confirm through, yes, this is a good process. This was, you know, this is the number we got got to through you. I think, again, I I mentioned it before. You can call me.

If you see something, hey, and I'll give you a perfect example. Someone called me and asked me about one line item in one department, and I realized that's $32,000 that I didn't see. We can save $32 from one person looking. And I think that's those are the types of things to look at and understand. I I again, I think that's your role. You excel in that. I'd rather look at numbers than look at the people that are affected, to be quite frank.

Mister chair, through you, I'm gonna give this to you, mister Perkins, that is dated from November 17. That was supposed to go through to department managers, but it didn't. But there are 12 guiding principles on this document. So I had foreseen a lot of these issues coming down the way and I would just simply ask you, if you would be so kind as to share this with department managers because I believe that out of these 12 guiding principles, they may find some benefit to looking at this. They're not inquisition questions.

They're not interrogation questions. They are designed to highlight guiding principles. They are designed to facilitate conversations and discussions not only within their own teams but across teams. I think that if we operate within silos, you have a lot of performance issues there and I think that the more visibility on issues across departments and between departments that we can help them see and understand, the better off we'll be. Mister chair, this will be a document. I will give to you. It has been in Dropbox for some time. What's what's six p?

Oh, that's GP, guiding principle.

Yeah. That's why I

identified as the dozen guiding principles that you had just sort of alluded.

So just in the first department request and questions, like, I I've actually done these. Obviously, the vehicles are an issue. I I think you know that we are making sure that all the vehicles are registered with official plates. That's taking place tomorrow. Yeah. List all employees who are paid stipend. I've looked at that. There are stipend cuts in the proposal. Yep. Department prior actual.

Yes. I've I've done that. Oh, yeah. I've been looking again, at if if people listen and are watching, if you look at the the '27 proposed budget, the 186 page document, not the correction plan. If you go through and you look at the department's budget, the last column all the way on the right when you're looking at line items is the increase from fiscal twenty seven '26 to '27. Mhmm. Those are the numbers you need to look at, and why is it going up? Mhmm. So those are the questions that I'm asking. So all of these Mhmm.

This is this is what I've been doing. And when I do have a question, call a department head. Yep. And everyone every department has been extremely extremely helpful, and when I ask them to bring me impact statements and the five, ten, and 20 cuts, most, if not all, brought me these types of answers. What do we do? Why do we do it? How do we do it? What will happen if we get a cut? Yep. So that's again, the department heads have been spectacular.

Great. In cooperative, the unions, obviously, they're questioning, and I've encouraged those conversations between department head and employee. But again, the information has been everybody wants to know what's the number. And it's as I've said publicly before, it's a jigsaw puzzle. And every time I say, what if this? Okay. Then then this is cause and effect. We do this, then this. Okay. Let's not do this.

Try that. And it's literally a moving target. And trying to narrow it down, that first step was just notifying employees through their collective bargaining units that there is a potential that this position may get cut and this person works in that position. Doesn't mean that's the the the cut. It we have to tell them there's a possibility.

So, again, when we get into those impact bargaining sessions, that's the first thing I tell the unions. You the names are on the list because there is a potential. What's the probability? I don't know because I'm trying to nail those numbers down, and I am up against the time window.

And I just wanna follow-up. I didn't get the top paragraph, which I do wanna read out again. I did read it back in November, and so department managers and directors can be very clear that this was to should have been provided as

a gave this to the department heads already?

No. It was given to the chair, the former chair. He was supposed to have delivered that to the town manager, but, let

me just stick to the topic here.

Okay. It just says this list is being provided for your review and response. You are respectfully asked to complete it to the best of your ability. While the scope of this request may exceed prior submissions, your time and effort are sincerely appreciated. Your participation is essential to advancing the highest standards of government oversight, accountability, and transparency principles our taxpayers rightly expect and deserve. Thank you in advance for your time, dedication, and cooperation in fulfilling this request. So it was truly designed to be a resource for

And I think the prominence is well aware of that now Yeah. Just because of the situation we're in. But again, I can't commend the department heads enough

That's great.

To be have that collaborative attitude. Again, it's their job to advocate for their department. That's their responsibility. They've done it well. I don't want them to think what they say to me falls on deaf ears, but everyone says I can't do without. But unfortunately, everybody's probably gonna have to do it less Yeah. Not without. Yeah.

To the committee, I will work with Jessica to get this to each of you because I think the drop the Dropbox is something I I find it very been Dropbox. Well, I find it clunky for me. Yeah.

I I know there was a I'll email you. A current select board member who had a problem. A new select board member who had a problem. We had to actually work through it with her too. So it is clunky. I agree with you. I don't use it. Just email you what I need

to be I'll just I'll work with you so seven seven of us will make sure that we have it. That it was given to from the committee to the top interim top manager.

I'll send it to you, mister chair. I'll send it to you and Jessica tonight.

That would be very helpful for Jessica.

Of course. My pleasure.

Mister chair. Go back to the manager. So so I what I heard was April 27.

That is the target date For budget to present a balanced budget to a joint session of Fincom

Okay.

Select board and possibly school committee. Again, I I don't think we need to do school committees, the school, they are they are we've just I've met with acting interim superintendent Mike Perrone. We've had multiple discussions. I know he met with a different department head today to try and look at shared services. These we're looking under every rock.

We're trying to come up with plans, shared services plans, meaning for the people that don't know what shared services are are, one department providing a service to another department at no cost versus that department spending money when we have someone who in town who can do it. So those little things, that's just that's how how deep we're going into actual budgets. I I don't feel like I should share the number, but the school has agreed in principle on a cut, and the conversation has been no teachers. There's still enough of the the number that we talked about that it wouldn't be an impact on teacher staff. So I I think that's important.

Again, what department touches the most people in town? It's obviously the school department, But it's still a big number.

Yeah. No. I think think that

And it does have a ripple effect on other departments, if you can read between the lines. So yeah. Yeah. So you might have an an unattended cut in another department because of school says, okay, I can cut this, but it may impact somewhere else in town. It's the opposite of shared services. It's okay, we can't do this anymore.

Those types of things. Okay.

Okay. Through the chair. So Oh, good.

So so April 27 will come together, have

That's all.

Then we can do our review

of Yes. Budgets subsequently. Department by department is how I think again, that's why I keep asking you, look at the department by department. Make notes. Call me. What what are you seeing here? And I think those conversations and that type of collaboration as finance committee members, you are the town. This is your job. Being able to help and understand what I'm looking at. Are we looking at the same thing?

And then when the presentation happens, you can say whoever wants to, you know, give me a call and go over it, then, yeah, we looked at the same numbers, and you guys can bring those numbers back here, and you could talk about the numbers. You just really can't talk about the people. Right. And I have no problem having those conversations. But I think it's a good process, being able to come back and alright. You know, I had a discussion this budget. You know, what's the impact with a 20% cut? What's the impact of a 100% cut? Those are the things you need to look at.

So I I know I thought Oh, good. I I was I'm good. So the document right there that Yep. That is continually being updated.

So

That becomes our

The the front side of the book, the revenue side is up there. It's the correct operational, correct budget, and correctional plan, I think is the the the name we named it. That right now is where we're where we that document is where we're at right now. Mhmm. That's the revenue side. This is the number we have to work on. Here's the expenditure side from the old budget book Mhmm. Put next to it to the adjusted projections and revenue with the deficit number in parenthesis on the bottom side. Three three seven five.

So it would be just to be clear, we're using the revenue that's

That set the correctional plan. Go back into the other document that's side by side Right. And now you can look in the departments. Mhmm. That's where you'll see, You can look at department by department, employee by you don't have names, and that's But the benefit of it, I'm not looking at who. Mhmm. I'm looking at and I'll just say it because I was a police officer, step two x, you know, and then their final pay. Looking at the line items of the entire budget, not just the personnel. Okay. Vehicle maintenance.

I'm just throwing one out. You can look at, oh, what's the increase? Why is there an increase? Those are the questions that need why is there an increase from 26 to 27? That's the first place I started because if we can save money without hurting people, that's what we need to look at, and that's what I've done. Then I have a number, and okay, I'm not close to that number. So I keep going and going and going until, alright, this is the number. These are the people, not names, positions, and then you notify the unions. HR knows the names. I other than police, I mean, this I don't really know.

I know most, but not all. I don't wanna know the names, but HR plugs in the position with who the name person is, and then their salary, their insurance, offset, unemployment, offset, or liability, then I get a number, and then I use the bottom number on my sheet, the insurance difference, the unemployment offset, and those numbers all have to work together. And it's okay if I don't cut here and this affects this position, then we won't have to pay this unemployment, but we still have to pay the it's all it's a jigsaw puzzle. It's back and forth, and this is the time consuming process, and I can't define every position in person. That's why we had to approach it through the unions with these are the positions.

HR says, these are the people. They put it on a letter. I signed it. They sent it out to the unions. That was the process.

So May I ask you a question?

I I can't just come I'll lose track. Sure. So on the twenty seventh, that's tentatively where we're gonna have a presentation Yes. Of the numbers. Yes. Where the revenue has been looked at and now we've looked at. So the finance committee has less than three weeks and you're gonna want a number before the twenty seventh.

Yes.

Do you wanna hear our

input? So I would yes. I would say, as members looking at it, try to get to 3,300,000, but then consider. If you hit 3,300,000, if you're looking at there's not a lot to look at. There's all it's people mostly. Mhmm. If you look at that, then I need you to put a number in your head, $600,000 for unemployment. And about half of that will get in return for health insurance. So there's that. So you get to 3.3, but then you gotta do the math out.

So any input that the finance committee comes up with

Yep.

Should be in your hands so the twenty seventh can be a full presentation. Yes.

I need you to tell me Mhmm. These are some from our discussions in open session of what I'm looking for, you look, call me, hey, these are some things that we see. Okay. I'll look further into it, or I see the same thing, or I didn't see that. I don't know. I can't tell you. Mhmm. But to be able to look numbers wise, just numbers, that, you know, if you have anything to add, I I'll take your call, and we will that's what I'm looking for.

Right. Because what I'm looking at

Yep.

Is

all seven of us sitting down, taking the time Mhmm. To do that, looking at revenue and looking at

I think the revenue side is set. Oh, what Yeah. The expenditure side is really the operating budgets of what we need to pay down.

And that's what you want to hear from

us? Yes. I mean, you all each have a liaison to a department.

Alright. Yeah. Well, I'm struggling with that and then bringing it back together Okay. Opposed to the amount just working

Right.

That we would be sitting down as a group and taking the time to go through Well, I what we think is

After I leave, then I think you guys can have that conversation. Okay.

I'm just Right. You need it well before the twenty seventh.

Yes. Yes. And I think if you'd spend an hour you don't I mean, look at it together as a group Right. Discuss the numbers, ask questions. I come back next week, you tell me this is what we looked at, we want to discuss it. I can't talk about people, can talk about numbers.

And we can do that?

Yes. I have no problem with that. However you want it. I just need

Okay. And the final input would be maybe the twenty second?

Correct.

Third?

Yes. Alright.

So Yes. I'm just looking for a

Timeline.

Where is this going? Okay. That's what I'm

looking for.

Yep. Mister chair. I think you would yeah. Yep. Yes.

I've put a bunch of things together through Excel. I'm happy to bring the projector and put it up there so people can digest it. It's sliced up by department. There's a lot of good information, and I think it'll be very helpful for the committee to see it.

Anything that will help us move forward?

Okay.

Tonight? No.

I next next go around.

Yeah. Think

we have three weeks. Possibly three more meetings?

Yes.

Well, if we're gonna go weekly. Today is the ninth, and if we're only gonna go on the sixteenth and twenty third.

Yeah. So two. But I think I would take, like, this. I I like this. This I've been doing this. Yeah. Know. Yeah. But to be able to alright. We have, you know, a few numbers. Just say, hey. Do you wanna give me some documents to take back with me and plug in and look at? And if this this this situation is we hit the number, but there's less people or less positions, not people. Or, hey, we can here's some money over here that we can pull back. Have you considered that?

I think talking money, I can tell you. Like, I'll give you that example. There was someone told me, hey, it's $32,000. Why what what's that? I'll find out. Made a phone call to the department head. Oh, yeah. No. And I said, good. This third 30 2.

We're working our way towards the number. That was, again, getting more eyes on this process, more input, and then questions get answered. I can then call the department head, talk about what that issue is, get back in at the same time, have an impact meetings, and they they know. They they're asking me the same questions. So they'll every union has emailed looking for data, being able to confirm, okay, this employee makes x, the fringe is x.

So every there's a lot of data sharing going back and forth, and I think if we got three weeks to get it done, the survivors talking about four weeks ago, hey, we need to get get on this. Trying to do something that's awful. The more people that do it and collaborate on it, I think it's shows the town and most specifically the employees that we took it seriously. And we did look at alternatives. That's what I wanna tell people.

Like, we looked at everything. If I can tell someone, look them in the face, and tell them this is this is the only solution, they're not gonna like it, but at least they know we tried. Right now, this this obviously in the future, there's alternatives. I'm not going there yet. But to get to town meeting in July 1, June 1 town meeting, July 1, the end of the fiscal beginning of the new fiscal year, to be able to get alternatives now, that's really give me ideas is what I'm looking for.

One And I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to get my head, I'm trying to get there so they can do it as a committee. Yep. And you're not getting seven different phone calls.

Well, I appreciate that.

Not that you won't because you probably need them because I someone will have an idea

I appreciate the thought. I don't mind. I I I feel more comfortable actually. If you see something, call me. But I think you should do work to together as a committee. But, also, if you're doing it at home and you see something and you're a liaison to that department and you, you know, recognize, hey. They just got this item this year, they don't need it again. Those things, like, those are the things I need to know. But you're the liaison to the department, so you might have some information.

I'm not dismissing that. Yeah. But as a committee, we anyways. You're right.

One thing I know we can't discuss just a little bit, but I wanna make a a qualified statement on potential reserve allocations. We do not have the financial calfers back for fiscal year twenty five as you know and we're not expecting them for another few weeks. And it's we're now almost eleven months post audit. In the event that we're pleasantly surprised and there's some extra funds, which I'm not anticipating, I could could be completely wrong. I have no idea.

It's just a hunch. If for, the sake of this conversation, the CAFR comes back and it adds to the number that we have to mitigate or to minimize any additional, either loss of service, but more importantly, layoffs. That's the the first focus I have. Is it possible to plan for that as a contingency basis? What would we do in the event that it comes back and and we need to get more money?

So I think we need to get if we have a balanced budget Mhmm. For a town meeting Mhmm. And we enter into the fiscal year '27 Mhmm. And we recognize, maybe there's a shortfall we didn't realize. Mhmm.

Hopefully, by fall town meeting, free if there's free cash. Yep. It would be certified, and you could supplement budgets through that at through an appropriation at town meeting. Special town meeting. Yep. You could also do it in the spring at Special Town Meeting. But again, I the free cash situation, I wouldn't wanna rely on that. It's already right now, this year, it's already earmarked for snow and ice and BP. Yeah. It's I'm sorry. Health insurance. Health insurance. Yeah. It's already been rolled forward for that. I get it.

But again, these are we have, and that's why I said it in my original presentation that the BP thing is is a sword hanging over our head.

Figured I'd throw it out.

Yeah. Well, I think people and I another thing that people need to understand, and it's my problem because I live in the town, but what does '28 look like? If we have a spike in local receipts this year, and we probably will, as I mentioned in my presentation, I'm hoping to exceed 11,500,000 this year

Mhmm.

In local receipts, and then resetting local receipts for '27 at eleven five Eleven five. And we spike a half $1,000,000 there. Those are good things. Yep. But we're spiking because of specific projects.

Mhmm.

So '28, if you don't have that spike, and using that one time money.

Yeah.

One time money to build a budget is inappropriate. Wait up. For example, I had the conversation with the fire department union president Mhmm. Talking about repairs to a fire truck, and Okay. Those those types of things, that's what you use one time money for, if it's a big number. Mhmm. Like, that's how you get those fixed. Mhmm. You go to special town meeting, hey, Whatever. This truck broke, and it's $25,000 repair. You can't take that out of the operating budget. Right. So take it out of go to town meeting either fall or spring every six months, and hey, we have this unexpected expense that needs to be fixed. Yeah. That's what you use your one time money for.

But in '28, revenue wise versus expenditure wise, there's a lot of contract commitments coming due in '28. And if the revenue is flatlined other than a couple of spikes in local receipts, 2627, those one time monies, you can't build or address the gap that is created with the expenditures operating budget expenditures going up because of our CBA commitments. So we could be having another problem next year.

Sure. So you're kinda hitting on the nail on the head a little bit. What the point I'm

gonna make is that I know, like, we're we're looking at the expense I'm not saying this excuse me. I'm not I don't want anyone to take me out of I'm not saying this I don't know. I'm just saying, I'm hoping that everything hits, like new growth, all those things. But I know if this this obviously, year, the budgets the operating budgets gonna increase because this collective bargaining agreement's in place for three years ahead of time. So people need to understand by addressing it now, yes, we're fixing it now. Next year, everyone needs to be aware. Okay. And I'm not saying there's $3,000,000. It might be, hey, we're a couple 100,000. We need to tighten our belts.

That's tightening your belt. This is not tightening your belt. This is going and getting a leg cut off.

Well, my my question is more of a of a of a long term plan and question for local receipts. One of the things I mentioned in the previous meeting was, you know, maybe like a fee study for what we're charging for permanent.

Yes. Has been that. That has been mentioned. But again, and and I think that is a perfect scenario for whoever comes after me. If Mhmm.

If this is going to make this job more appealing, you're taking you're taking the issue serious now, you're making the appropriate cut to balance budget that's in sound it sound fiscally. Now you have someone who can come in that may look at the revenue. How can we grow the revenue? And that has been asked to increase some fees, and there are some people, depends on what school thought you have. You know, what what fees are you talking about? One time fees? I I know are you increasing certain things? No. I don't. I don't.

But this I've had these conversations. Yeah. And there is there is a a you can compare our fee structure for all different things in town to other towns, and we may not be maximizing what we should be charging. I I agree. I can't change the fees tomorrow and collect enough money to get us to July 1.

Exactly. This is that's a long term solution to help to help the financial health of the town grow. And that is a perfect situation for the next person that sits in this chair and has that understanding of municipal government, and to be able to grow responsibly. And that might be a a a nice little source of revenue growth to win back some of the cuts that are made this year. So that is a very optimistic approach, but I can't get it done before July 1. I think you all agree, we're not gonna collect enough. No. I think it's one just one piece to the puzzle. It's an awesome idea. I've had that conversation.

I had someone come into me the other my office the other day. You know, hey, we can raise fees. Yep. We can. I can't do anything in time enough to save this.

Mhmm. I

just want to go back to the prior conversation. I thought I heard discussion around use of free cash for the budget. I I I don't think that's a good idea.

It's not.

Free cash, one time money Right.

Towards That's what I I I mean, I think that's historically and maybe not long term, but has maybe that's been the practice, and it's kinda helped put us in this situation. Mhmm. You can't use one time money for operating budgets. So your free cash that you get back is one time money. You don't know you're gonna get that same amount back next year.

I think you can use it to supplement things that aren't expected. You can use it for one time purchases, you know, unintended, issues come up. Again, the BP thing, that needs to be addressed. We kick the can on that till next year. And it has to be someone that's sitting in in this seat next year to be able to come up with a a solution. Maybe we pause. You know, if you do raise fees and you get to a point where you have that extra money in the budget, again, that's a decision of finance committee, permanent town manager, select board. Okay. What do we address first? Services and hiring back people?

Or alright. We need to take care of the BP issue and build it into the budget. So again, these are the long term decisions that this committee has to do, and I I applaud all of you, and I will be doing it from my living room when I am not the interim town manager.

Mister Chair, just, on fees, the planning board discussed it Tuesday night, our fee schedule, and we have, come up with 20% increase in all fees. And then we sent the planner back to scour and make sure that every single fee that we could possibly charge will be on that list for us

to I heard the number from that conversation. I was impressed. Like, that's a good number. We can't get that number into next year's budget. And But Yes. We But that's a long term recovery solution. And, again, a responsible approach to responsible growth on the operation side.

Well, we did find out that we hadn't raised our fees since 2022.

Yes.

So we did 5% for every year, so it came up to 20% as catch up.

Mhmm. Mister Phillips.

Through the chair. I just heard that 20%. That's a significant increase. The only thing that I would caution on that is because you don't wanna have a knee jerk reaction where it's like, hey. Let's just jack up the fees. Well, then you have people that say, oh, I'm doing business in Middleborough. So you're capturing nothing. So as long as it's commensurate or Comparable to Comparable. Comparable. Comparable to our neighbors,

fine. Yep.

That's that's good. But just

You don't wanna be broad strokes. You don't wanna be the most expensive town to do business with.

No. Because people just won't they won't do

won't come here. Correct. And I agree with that. So. The conversation that that person brought to me, I thought it was wonderful for the next person that sits in my chair. They they can take that and run with

it. Right.

We can't it has zero impact on what we're looking at today. Right.

And, like, I mean, as far as long term strategies, I know previous meetings with chief Thompson that I had, one of the discussions that we had was getting town run ambulance service. And, again, that's a long term, you know, obviously, there's a significant upfront cost associated with it. But long term, it's something that could supplement the fire department's budget. You're you got firefighters that are working it, but there's a huge untapped resource by way of money that currently the town is forfeiting by not having an ambulance service.

Right.

Every medical that's called fire fire department rolls out on. They're going out, and then we've got right now, we've got coastal that's coming. They're charging the insurance company, and Middleborough gets a big fat goose egg for their time and effort on these medical calls. So I think, again, long term vision Correct.

But in this, I have also have a few other things. I I can let you guys know. I mean, I've I've seen some different municipal setups. Health insurance is gonna be a problem too. That might be another another conversation for another day, but these are the long term things that I've looked at and realized never really understood as a resident or a municipal worker. I didn't realize, you know, how that really looks on paper. But there are things that I've heard. Hey. We do it this way. I'm like, really?

And there's there's other all alternatives out there. Again, I don't wanna be premature saying an idea, but it may be a discussion for the next person in this chair with you, looking at alternative ways to provide health insurance. Just things that I've heard about. Again, as you said with the ambulance, start up costs Mhmm. But long term savings. So having the person that sits here next is a it's a very important job. And I I'll be honest, I took it for granted that the role is this this is. I really did.

Anyone else for the interim town manager?

Hey. I I I don't wanna speak if you guys wanna speak.

Yeah. I think

I'm wondering. Mhmm. So a lot of times in private sector, the price of health insurance is based on you know, in the private sector, we just assume it's a certain price, but really it's based on how much health insurance your company covered. And also sometimes towards your medical care. So is that the same with municipal? And what I'm trying to say is, for example, I worked with a company once who had five p a very small workforce, like a 100 people. Right? And five people got cancer. And they had to cover the care through their health insurance caused through cancer, and then it skyrocketed everybody else's health insurance for the next year.

Probably didn't have a catastrophic policy.

But I'm just wondering if municipal works

the same way. The municipal the any municipal organization for health insurance purposes can get a catastrophic policy if employees or their families have cancer, catastrophic illness, that's part of what an idea. It's again, how do you do the other part?

Is Right.

Okay. You need to look at some of other ways, and there are communities in the state that do it differently. I think we have a very high expense when it comes to that. Maybe we could

And I'm not I'm not asking in the way that, like, anybody who's sick should pay more, but what I'm saying is, does it in fact affect, for example, like, what did 2025 look like versus 2026, and does that affect the rates for 2027? And how do you carry that on?

We have GIC. So it's it's the state of Massachusetts. I don't know what the acronym is, whatever the GIC stands for.

But they are insurance

company. They offer different plans. The plans that they're like a broker.

That's okay.

So the plans that you have to pick from, I think looking at whatever type you have, it's all some the increase for next year is 4%. Some are 1213%. It all depends on what the employee picks for a plan and what they're comfortable with. And we can't con I mean, we we only we only told what the increase is. We don't I don't know how they calculate the how much they are going to charge the individual that selects that plan, and then that's directly related to what type of plan it is and what the collective bargaining, particular protect collective bargaining unit unit has agreed, and it's it varies throughout town.

It used to be ninety ten when I worked here, when I first started here. It's not ninety ten anymore. I guess too,

I just think maybe if we're if you're projecting anything, and though I hate I hate to say it, like, if you're projecting something, for example, if you knew as a pool or HR could give you an idea, for example, 90% of our people are generally healthy. Right? But then we've got these 10%. We know that's going to affect our insurance next year. And how? Like, as an umbrella statement, not like granularly not being in people's business, but I think it's an important calibration. If in fact because I don't know how the municipal or that, you know, that pool works for for municipal, but or the state. But I just wonder if it's something you can at least use as a, like, top level projection. There are alternatives. Yeah.

There and I know of one, and it's pretty impressive.

Group Insurance Commission. Thank you. You're welcome. That's why I really I think our year is coming up,

isn't it? Next year, we're up.

Yes. Certain number of years, you have to stay in it and then you have the opportunity to look outside and see if if those rates could

We've been in this since Been a while. I believe Charlie Cristal was a town manager. It's all been it's been a while. Yeah. But again, there's limited alternatives, but there are alternatives.

Oh, yeah. So Anyone else? Did you wanna sit in front of this TV?

I'm gonna No. I'm gonna sit in front of the TV and watch you guys talk. I'm actually watching Survive of 50 with my wife, so we gotta get catch up on our shows. What are you laughing at? It's a good show.

So you have the people.

I don't. I have I have Hulu. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you guys. See you later.

Thank you.

Good luck. Thank you, ladies. Yep.

So this is I guess an add on to the discussion with the town manager. And so we do have a meeting on the next two Thursdays. And then we're at the end of where we're supposed to be. But this one thought as as he was talking, was thinking, okay, what what's how do you do this? I am not dismissing anyone picking up the phone and calling them up and say, hey, just just had a great idea from Jolly down the street.

But I was wondering that we should take some time and go through the the expenditures and go line by line. And it can take a while, but you know, you all have your ideas. It's great to hear people bouncing ideas off each other. And I know it will take time, but this is an extraordinary time. We don't meet in July. We don't meet in August. That's my thought. Any thoughts on how? To

Yeah. I agree, Bob. I think if we need to spend the time that we need to go through line by line, I'm also not opposed to doubling up in a week if we need to do two nights. We can't get next Monday, obviously, because we're I think we can advertise it quickly now. But certainly, we could do the Monday after and even the Monday after. That might be the twenty seventh by then. But so we could do additional meetings as well. Any other thoughts?

I think that, yeah, everybody's gotta take a really fine tooth comb to their departments, and I'll have something broken out by department, by expense all in. I can show people on a projector. We can do it here. We can do it the other room, whatever is easiest for the company. But I can do it all pretty easily, and you guys can see what we come up with. And if you wanna borrow the data, you can borrow the data. It's up to you.

Everybody's thoughts, everybody's input is void. So I'm just I'm not struggling, but, you know, I I believe we need to take the time and, you know, it it may not fit everybody's calendar, but, you know, get as many of us together that if possible and go through it in in such a way that we can sit back and say, yes, we did and we went through this. We we took our time and this is what we came up to give to the town manager to be part of that parcel that he has to present. I I I I'm just looking for Yeah. It would be too late to do something on Monday.

Tomorrow's Friday. So I'm looking well, if we're just gonna stick to the Thursdays, it would be the sixteenth and the twenty third. And I think that week of twenty third, not that I'm going anywhere, but it's a vacation week for the kids. Mhmm. But I don't have any kids whenever. I I don't have to babysit that week.

Yeah. I was gonna suggest that Monday, Bobby.

That might be Patriot's Patriot's I'm sure it is.

Yes. And

I'm not running, but I'm running out of Yep. No. So if if we couldn't get a meeting in the thirteenth, which is next Monday, I don't know if anybody have a problem with trying to double up on the fourteenth, fifteenth? We have the sixteenth that we've decided beforehand. Thursdays would be

I have I have commitments, so I will I can be here for what we discussed the Thursdays, but beyond that.

Mhmm.

I'm out.

So are you projecting something at April 14 and that's a Tuesday. Is it is that what you're talking

about? Tuesday? Well, you know, Tuesday or Thursday. Tuesday or

Wednesday. Right.

You know, I don't know what's people's lives are, you know, maybe Tuesday is better for the majority and Let's see.

Tuesday, I would need it later, probably 07:30 ish.

We could start at seven and and people come in as they can come in. I think Wednesday.

Could do Wednesday or Thursday. I can't do Tuesday.

Nate? I was gonna say the the small conference room is available on Tuesday. Just looking at the town calendar. But I can do whatever days you guys would like to meet.

Supervisor Tuesday seemed to be not

I'm just gonna have to push it back. John's

Well, my schedule just rotates on a constant basis. Yeah. Okay. Typically, this is the time that I don't work. So I just adapt my schedule.

Can I make a suggestion?

Can I just If

you can't use the small coffins oh, sorry?

I'm I'm just trying to get dates, and then it it then we'll see if it fits because

Oh, it's just

We're flowing.

Letting you know Right. If there's another room

Mhmm.

The camp.

Yep. That's great. That's all.

Yep. It just if it's not

You said you couldn't do Tuesdays?

Right. Yeah.

I can do Tuesdays. You can do Tuesday. You can do Tuesday and be coming late. I'd be late. Yeah. Even if your schedule, however it fits you. So the fourth the the where's where's the fourth? One Tuesday. Right? Yep.

So join. You can't make

Can't do Tuesdays.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Can't. Yeah. It's Wednesday.

Wednesdays or Thursdays.

Wednesday, the fifteenth, and make sure the sixteenth. The following week, we know the twentieth is a holiday. Mister Chuck?

Yeah. Sorry. The the fifteenth, the select order room, the small conference room in the MKIM Studio is not available. They're all reserved. Just look at the town calendar.

How about the police station?

Let's see here. Doesn't list

the police station.

Do they have this on the town website?

I think they do because they

didn't think the the two rooms do because they the board of trustees has

Right.

Theirs and then they have the big room that has

That's a good suggestion.

I don't know if the big room does, though. Maybe the board of library trustees does.

Nancy? So MCAM is like what was it? Bank? Mhmm.

The annex.

It's at the annex.

Is that something that no? That's it says.

That's the MCAM studio. That's the one that's the

You can meet there if you need to. It's the one in the front. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Also the Library Trust Room, I think generally has the camera. The big conference room put down by the kids does not. It has to be manually done. And that's a stand up camera with someone operating it. But I believe the small truss room that they use for the Bolt does have, I believe it does because I've never seen someone set up the camera, but I believe there is a camera in there. But you can ask, Laurie or

Oh, it was a

high school too. Right? I think you

had They they're under a different thing.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Different one. I wouldn't try to get into that. So right now, the fifteenth is being looked at just we need a location. Mhmm. And discussion is MCAM or library right now? Is that what we're talking?

The thing would have to be the library. Library. MCAM is Okay. So the MCAM studio is being used for the permanent cable condition.

Alright. Kick them up. Alright. So we'll see if we can get them in in the library. And then sixteenth, I'm gonna assume we can stay here.

Yes. I'm just looking at the town calendar.

So Wednesday at library on the fifteenth?

Potentially. Attend attending. Yes. Unless it's no. Yep. You must nope.

That's and then, yeah, on the Thursday, the small conference room is available from

What date is that? That's Thursday the sixth. Thursday the sixth. Yep. And if you do you

wanna maybe consider starting it a little earlier so we have more time?

Yeah. We know Alan might be a little late, maybe

But that's on Tuesday. Maybe on Wednesday, maybe not somewhere.

How early can people do it? I mean, I can do five.

I could do six.

Just yeah. That's just me. Six.

Six is yeah. Six is okay.

Subject to the availability for the library, then six here, which should be fine since we're.

So we're doing six instead of seven?

Yeah. Six on Wednesday. Wednesday. Wednesday, six. Thursday, did we talk about we didn't talk about time for Thursday.

It's typically seven. Alright.

And we'll go seven again. So 06:00, Wednesday the fifteenth, hopefully in the library. Thursday the sixteenth at 07:00, hopefully here. The twenty third, it's a Thursday, hopefully here again at 07:00, which leaves open. Do we do something on the twenty first or twenty second? Or do we wait to see how far we get on the holiday? We gotta get the posting posting it. I don't know if the holiday counts as a day or not. Yeah. So we would be pushing it. I think you

have to know by the end of Wednesday Right.

To post on Thursday or next Tuesday or something.

So

should we set it up for another Wednesday, Thursday or do a Tuesday, Wednesday? Tuesday, Tuesday, Thursday the following week?

Probably the Wednesday, just John's calendars.

That's right. Yeah. I'm you're

a Wednesday guy. Locked out on Tuesdays.

Alright. So Wednesday, how and how's your little thing? Tell us on Wednesday the He's got a

man here. Yeah. Wednesday looks like it's available. This? The Wednesday, the twenty second. This room? Yes. Okay. 07:00? That's fine with me.

And then Thursday, the twenty third, we've established that it's 07:00 and? Yep. This room Yeah.

And this room's available for both days.

Okay. And then again, picking up the phone and talking to the town interim town managers, I I never thought that would be something. But I thought it would be important for us to be working together and bouncing ideas off and maybe spark something else. Anything else on that? Because they are open in the afternoon, how do you tomorrow? Yeah. You can

do it all

through email and Oh, okay. Do things. Oh, alright. So if you just if we're done with the discussion on the budget or if you

I just got a question, mister chair. That document that John gave you that's gonna be emailed out. We were talking about I heard discussion about issues with Dropbox. Can we, as a committee, go back to just do an email and avoid Dropbox? Because, first of all, I'm not on Dropbox, and there's a good reason why I'm not on Dropbox because data can be added, deleted, added, removed from Dropbox, where it's if we have it via email, I have it forever.

Yeah. So I think, especially in light of the fact that people are having issues accessing information from Dropbox, I believe you were one of them. Said the thing's a little funky. Interim manager, clunky. Clunky. Thank you. Interim tile manager expressed the same sentiment. So I think moving forward, can we just go back to having emails?

Short answer is yes. And use the Dropbox too.

Right. I mean, use that as like a backup

Well

if you will.

I'm not arguing. We get the Dropbox, and I was gonna ask for everybody to give if you would actually give it to Jessica. The primary email that you'd like to use to get information, a phone number in case I need to contact you. I have most oh, I have yours now. If I can get everybody's phone number in case something's going on and we have to cancel something or something's happening that we need to. So I was gonna ask if we could get that into Jessica's hands so that we could at least have a a database that that that we're comfortable with. But, yeah. I I I wasn't looking at yes. Dropbox, however it works, I'll figure it out. And I I I rely on the email too. Perfect.

Thank you.

Anything else in discussion of the budget for the the town manager? So last week, the last time we're together, I had talked about some kind of way to have guidelines on how our meetings would run. But then I considered that that probably isn't the way to do it. So just let me so I do appreciate the confidence you have placed in me as chair. I am honored and I take this responsibility seriously, especially given the financial challenges currently facing our town.

What gives me confidence in this committee? Each of you brings valuable experience and a different perspective. It only works, however, if every voice is heard, every question is welcomed, and our discussions remain focused and respectful. To support that, I'm gonna provide you a copy of what I consider as a working document There's two. Okay. I have one that says

copy. Thank

you. And Jessica. Oh, yeah. Jessica. Here you go.

Thank you.

So so to help us remain focused and respectful to support that, have been I'm providing you with a set of operating guidelines. I am not asking the committee to adopt them by vote. Instead, I will be using these guidelines as a framework to guide how we run our meetings. More importantly, I invite you to use them as a way to measure my effectiveness as a chair. If I'm doing my job well, you should see meetings that are organized and focused, fair opportunity for all members to participate, respectful professional discussion even when we disagree, and clear movement toward decisions.

And if at any time you feel we are falling short, whether in tone, process, or participation, I expect you to say so. Open communication will make us stronger. We will not always agree that is part of the work, but how we conduct ourselves, how we listen, we question, and deliberate will determine the confidence that our community places in us. The work ahead is serious as you can tell from the town manager. If we stay disciplined, respectful, and focused on our responsibility to the residents of Middleborough, I am confident that together we can handle this well.

And I look forward to continue working with you all. So I'm looking at this as measure what I'm doing. And if it's not meeting these guidelines, then I wanna know. And if it's not working, then there's ways to take care of that too. So I'm not asking you to vote. I'm just giving you what I'm looking at, what what I'm gonna use for my guiding principles. And I I need you to know, I am not going to not make mistakes. Okay? I need to be called on it. And you all have my oh, maybe you don't have my number. You have my number now. And so anyways, that's all I wanted to say about this. I think

it's great.

And I guess we now have public comment. Does anybody I'm sorry. Does anybody the committee wants public comment?

Sure. Nancy could follow-up concerns that you said and on. The only thing I wanted to say is if you guys generally only have a meeting for an hour on Wednesday, you may be able to get that McCann for that hour slot. If you guarantee to be out in an hour, probably, it might let you.

Thank you. That's all. Thank you, Nancy. I anticipate this would be taking more than an hour, though. I'm just saying, yes, thank you,

at least at the start.

No one else? Yes. I might just

probably comment. I'd just like to say thank you both for taking on the role. I look forward to your guidance and leadership. And I'd also like to recognize and thank Eric for this past year's leadership and support to the committee. It's a yeoman's effort to be chair and often an unrecognized position. Thank you, Eric. And thank you, Bob, for

Thank you, Eric. Taking that. If there's no other business, if if you know Jessica doesn't have your information, then maybe you can send it to me and then I'll get it to her. Thought I had a sheet of paper, it's not still here. I recognize a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you very much.