Historic Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

Two of them. Have you started the other one?

No, no, I'm still.

I have like three chapters there. I'm not excited about it. It's not very well written. The narration is irritating. Yeah, to me. I think he's of the same opinion, but I think we're going to be nice and kind.

Okay. It wasn't his recommendation?

No. Oh, no, the first one. Oh, the first one. The one Scarlett recommended. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit like, I don't know, a little Pollyanna-ish sort of thing. I don't know.

It's not.

But it's okay. Yeah. We're going to be nice to Scarlett. Are you seeing us, Patricia?

Yes, I am.

Okay. How exciting about your daughter becoming a citizen.

Yes, oh my God, it was so emotional. It was people from all over the world.

That's great.

Now American. And now they're Americans. Yeah, now they're Americans.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm very happy to hear that. No, let me text her.

Hey, good evening. How are you? I'm well. We haven't started yet, but I'm happy to put you on speakerphone. We have Jeffrey, myself, Madam Chair, Patricia joined by phone. I will put you on speaker, but I'll mute you. And I'll let you know when you hear what we're starting. I'll unmute you.

Of course. On speaker.

Any since the chair and vice chair aren't here, I figured I would start the meeting as a senior member. Just waiting for Paola. I agree. Okay. I texted her, so we'll see.

Yeah, we need her for a quorum.

We do, yeah. The stuff that was sent out was just the stuff Warren sent, right? You have, legal hasn't reviewed any of this, right? No, no. Okay.

And I did add, I added the whole chapter of the historic preservation. Excellent. Okay. And I added, so I added that item, which is... number two, exhibit number two, and then I added exhibit number one.

Okay.

Which was an amendment that was done last year. Right. But it hasn't reflected on the muni code yet.

Oh, it hasn't? Even though it was accepted by the council?

Correct. So what happens is that muni code is a non-for-profit website, right? So all of the private cities translate their ordinances to muni code and then they take that task of uploading it. Every city has a different protocol. I've been at cities where it's done quarterly. Apparently here at the Village it's done once a year. I believe that process has begun now in the month of April.

You know, that particular change, like we accepted it for expediency, but there has always been an issue, and I think that someone highlighted it here, where it talks about a zoning district. It's like where we would approve certificates of recognition for individual sites and designated properties in a zoning district. And that was really supposed to be a historic district, as opposed to a zoning district. But this would be page three on exhibit one. I think that the attorney suggested it. We somehow approved it, which is OK. And the council approved it. But it really should be a historic district, not a zoning district. We don't have anything to do with zoning, right? Patricia, I have to hang up and try to call Pablo, okay?

Okay.

Okay, chat. I mean, I don't know if we want to tackle that or not, but I don't think it makes a huge difference, but it's not technically...

Hello, Mr. Tours?

Hi, Paola. Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. I called the wrong Paola. I apologize. I was trying to call another Paola. This is Jeffrey Sade. My apologies. Oh. Yeah. No problem, Jeffrey. No problem. Thank you.

I'm working on your... Oh, no, I said to you about this already.

I think I owe you a piece of information or two. Yeah, just... That's okay. Just my last email. That's great.

Yes, the other confirmation post and something else that I have it on my file to send you, but I still need to get one piece of info and I'll email that to you. That sounds great.

Okay, thank you so much. Bye-bye. That's about our Peru trip. She's a travel agent for our Peru trip. Yeah, we're going to Peru.

Hi. She's walking in.

That's great. Yeah. OK. Okay great, Paola's here as well. She's coming, she's coming. So I guess we can go ahead and get started. So in the absence of the chair, the vice chair, I call this meeting of the Historic Preservation Board to order. This is Jeffrey Sade. Okay, meeting minutes. Do I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes?

Second the motion.

Sorry, roll call. Thank you, yeah, roll call.

Mr. Sada, here. Mr. Serrano. Present. Chair Bonaduce.

Do I have a motion to approve the minutes from last meeting?

Yes. Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Approved.

Okay. The next item is the discussion item around proposed text amendment to Chapter 11, Historic Preservation Board. I know that Warren Bittner has joined us also on the phone. If you want to give any guidance, Eddie, or... I think you can just go right into your discussion. Okay. And do you suggest that we review the proposed changes line by line?

Most likely, yeah, because I think you would have to have consensus amongst the board members. Sure.

Okay. Why don't we go ahead and get started then? Let's go to... Let's start with exhibit one. I guess these are Recommended changes, but it's not clear to me that on page What is that? page three In section one. I'm sorry section 11-4 historic preservation board on page three There are some underlying items the board shall have the power and duty to approve Struck out as approved historical markers. Recommend approval of historical markers. So is this the current language that we changed last year, or is this proposed language? No, you're correct.

So it's approved language. This is approved language. Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 2 are your current rules. Current rules. Okay. Very good. Okay, so that's already which are those are the two items I added right and then all the other items were provided by Mr. Bittner. Correct. Okay, so exhibit one exhibit two.

I recognize is chapter 11 Entirety and then we have exhibit four and the proposed changes so I read through these, and I think for the most part what these are doing is bringing our code in compliance or to the same level that the county code is in, as far as I can tell. Mr. Bittner, did you want to add anything since you're on the phone?

Uh, that you've summarized that, uh, correctly, uh, what this, uh, proposes to do is to, uh, mirror to the extent of possible and to the extent that, uh, we may be a little different from the county, uh, uh, the powers and duties that are granted by the county. to the County Historic Preservation Board. There are a lot of these powers that our code, that Miami Shores code, is just silent about. And what prompted this, of course, as we remember from last meeting, is that now there is a new thematic group two on the table for you all to work on. And the current code in Miami Shores doesn't permit you to work on it unless all the houses or properties are already designated. This would... expand that authority on your part to consider a thematic group that had at least some of the homes historically designated right okay and we're taking we're proposing to take advantage of revising that and also making other changes to bring it in line with the county so

sounds good let's just go line by line then um on page two um he's proposing the strikeout of the introductory section plus one two and three replacing that with powers and duties and then a new definition the board shall have the following enumerated powers and duties provided However, that nothing in this section shall be deemed to restrict the power of the Board to take action pursuant to its authority and furtherance of the policies of this Chapter. I'm okay with that. Item number 1, if you have any comments, just stop me. Item number 1 is recommending to the Village Council the designation of historic landmarks, districts, and archaeological and paleontological zones. Anybody have anything on that?

So historic landmarks, incumbences, residences, and different typologies, other spaces, churches?

Yes, other than single-family homes, exactly. Number two, issue or deny certificates of appropriateness and certificates to dig. We have that responsibility now. Any comments? Okay, number three, recommend to the Village Council the nomination to the State Historic Preservation Office for inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places, a property that had either been previously designated an historic landmark, or there's part of a thematic group containing one or more properties that has been previously designated an historic landmark. So this is where we're saying that it doesn't have to be designated to be recommended to the historic places. National Register yeah okay number four recommend to the village council the co-designation of a street based upon documented historic presidents like naming the street after maybe a historic figure I'm assuming that's what that means like a historic figure in addition to like like 96th Street is Shoreland Boulevard right yeah is that that is what you meant here right Warren I'm going to make a request.

Can Daniel call me back? My connection seems to be disintegrating.

Okay, happy to. One moment. Okay, thank you. Disintegrating.

Hi, Warren. Okay, I'm here. much better okay so Warren I was assuming that coat item four on exhibit four I was assuming that code designation of a street means like name it giving it a name other than the actual street number or whatever right like Shoreland Boulevard is 96th Street Is that what's meant here?

Number four is something that the Historic Preservation Board hasn't done for several years, but it was the Historic Preservation Board that recommended the co-designation shoreland boulevard uh my my and that was done before my board uh but my board did west dixie highway it did biscayne road uh and and that's the origin of this language we were doing this and the code was silent so uh uh in one of the amendments along the way this got added okay because we were doing it

Okay.

Any issues?

No. Okay. Number five. Recommend to the Village Council approval of A, historical markers, B, guidelines for historical markers, and C, certificates of recognition for individual sites and designated properties in a district. Looks good to me. Yes. Leticia, chime in if you have any questions. Okay. Yeah.

What's that?

Eddie sent that. Yeah. I mean, Warren sent it. Yeah. Warren sent it. Yeah. But Eddie has printed what he sent. So what you have in front of you is what he sent out. Number six. Recommend zoning and building code amendments to the proper authorities. What does that mean?

That's right from the county code. I'm curious to know.

Yeah, that's in the county code for the Historic Preservation Board, you're saying. Right, Warren?

Yeah, that's right from the county code, number six.

Okay. I may have an issue with that. I don't know. Do we have power to do anything with zoning? Like, what would be an example?

Well, it's recommended, first of all.

Yeah, it's recommended, definitely. All of this is recommended, yeah.

Yeah. that when it is a historic home, the applicant maybe produce more information on one of the features that is going to be, for example, renovated or, you know, be a little bit more explicit. For example, that could be a recommendation. It could be a recommendation to the zoning, you know, to add to zoning and, well, building.

But this says that we would recommend changes to the actual zoning for whatever area that house is in and the building code, not the house, like a building code amendment. So I don't know about this one. Yeah. Like we would recommend a zoning change or something. I'm not sure how.

Well, there is a group of, I mean, I don't know if it's, If there was a group of homes, for example, in something that could become like a historic district or, I don't know, that could also be a change on the zoning. Nothing comes to me of a building that is directly related to...

Yeah, so the way that the municipal laws are set up right now in Miami Shores, it's kind of like tailored that every board has like their own code section. Like for example, building has chapter six, the planning and zoning board, they have appendix A, historic preservation has chapter 11. And this language seems to intimate that the board would have authority to essentially go into other jurisdiction that's not within Chapter 11.

So that would be my concern. Like if planning and zoning see this, like are they going to say why are they recommending zoning and building code changes? It doesn't make, I don't know.

Yeah, it's out of our purview.

Why don't we bring this one back? We do a little bit more research and bring it back. Because it may have something good. but maybe we don't know about it. We can do a little bit of research of how the other locations or other... Well, it comes from the county preservation. Correct. But it looks like we're not informed enough about the subject. So why don't we, instead of saying yes or no, why don't we table it, that one, and we'll come back to it.

Otherwise, Warren, do you have a different interpretation of number six?

Well, number six, this is a Chinese menu. You pick what you want, everything or some of them or whatever. But number six, why wouldn't you want to have that power? Just to – other zoning sections and building code sections – affect historic preservation. And if there's a problem, like for instance, the amendment to the Florida building code to allow the salvage and reuse of historic Cuban tile. uh technically you all didn't have the power to be recommending uh that change 30 years ago because it just wasn't there but we did it anyway and this just lays it out that you're allowed to recommend this now the uh it's just a recommendation that it's uh still got to be approved by either the planning and zoning board or the uh village council uh this is just allowing you to make a recommendation

Well, that was a good example. So like the Cuban tile I think is a good example. We could recommend that we allow historic properties to, I don't know, include or replace or whatever. Okay. So I think I'm okay with it if it's a recommendation. And with the example that you mentioned, what do you guys think?

Yeah, I think it's apt. It covers us in the future. It's just a recommendation.

And we might have to revisit it once it goes to the council because they might have an issue with it, maybe. I don't know, but I say let's keep it in there for now. All right, number seven. Promote the awareness of historic preservation, including the preservation of architectural, archaeological, paleontological, cultural resources, and its community benefits via workshops and seminars.

Sounds good? Yes.

Number eight, conduct historic research or other related action where necessary. Sounds good. Number nine, review and update the historic survey inventory for its quality and professional merit and validate the findings in the inventory as bona fide and sincere. I think that sounds fine, yeah?

Everybody okay?

Number 10, implement the authority of this chapter and fulfill the task set forth for this board by the alleged counsel in this chapter and other ordinances.

The numbers may not be exactly the same Is this is this wording this comes right this comes right from the county code Word for word

the only thing that's changed is that village council is substituted for board of county commissioners okay so it is the same okay so number 10 we're okay with that's good number 11 with the assistance of the village clerk record and maintain records of the board's actions and decisions that's good i guess done currently yeah number 12 on behalf of the village and with the approval of the village council be responsible for the receipt and custody of donations of property and artifacts can we go back to number 11 for just a second i wanted to make a comment on that yeah

I know from reviewing over the years the city clerk's website, she has an archive for various boards, one of which is you. A few years ago, that archive went back all the way to the 80s, and it included the entire time that I sat on the board. uh now it is has been shrunk to perhaps the last five or six years now that's disadvantageous to both the public and to the board and uh number 10 excuse me number 11 uh would uh you know assist you in uh helping the clerk uh Get those back online. So that was my thinking, although this comes essentially from the county code. My thinking with this is that it could assist you in getting those older archives online in the archive.

Okay. I believe that at some point some of the archives were shifted over to the library. Are you familiar with that? Warren?

I'm not, but that very well could be. The clerk may have sent over copies to the library. I'm not aware of whether that's true or not.

If I may, Jeffrey? Yeah.

All the donations have always been to the library. The only donation that we did to the village was the database. But all the artifacts and all the materials, are always being donated to the library.

Yeah, but this is speaking specifically about the board's actions and decisions, I think, for the meetings. I think that's what this is referring to.

It is. It's specifically to the board's actions and decisions.

Like, Warren is saying that the meetings are archived only, like the meeting minutes and stuff, are only archived back for five years. Okay, well, I mean, this is part of the county code, so, and I think that, I'm okay with leaving that in. Are you guys okay with that?

Yeah, I just don't know if staff will have enough resources to sit and do all that work.

Well, I mean, they may just say it's going to be going forward, right? Because there are five years there already. It's everything that was older than five years. We don't know where that is. So it could be some putting it online would be.

If it was to be found, I don't know if they would do that.

Yeah. So should we let them push back, suggest it, and then they could push back if they need to?

I mean. If somebody volunteers and they are OK allowing somebody to do it, I don't see why not. It's a good thing to have the archives. But all that I'm saying is that knowing how things evolved around, they're not going to assign somebody to just sit and do that. But it could be that they allow somebody to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's leave an M for now. Yeah. Yeah. And then if there's any pushback, we can deal with that later. Okay, number 12. On behalf of the village and with the approval of the village council, be responsible for the receipt and custody of donations, property, and artifacts. I thought we covered that one already. Is this duplicated? No, we just went back.

Yeah, that's already in the village code.

Oh, gotcha. Okay. We went back. Okay, number 13, provide an annual report to the village council. Okay. Number 14, follow and abide by the laws of the United States, the state of Florida, Miami-Dade County, and Miami Shores Village. Okay, D, jurisdiction. So let's see, what does an underline mean? Is that an addition?

Yes. Underline means it's added text. Added.

Okay.

Or proposed. Okay. So I'll just read the paragraph up to there. It might be just easier.

The board's jurisdiction shall be limited to the village. The board shall be concerned with those elements of change. rehabilitation, and or preservation that affect the quality of the village. No individuals or organizations shall at any cost designate structures or sites within the village without pertinent data being submitted to and approved by the Historic Preservation Board and the Village Council. Okay, this is new. Unless the interior of an historic landmark has been specifically designated, means the inside of a house, for example.

Like right now, that is not designated.

Yeah, we don't have, to my knowledge, I don't think we have anything in the interior.

You don't have anything yet, but you may have in the future.

That's what it's saying. Well, no, what it's saying is that, so I should read the full sentence. The full sentence says, unless the interior of an historic landmark has been specifically designated, the board shall not consider it interior arrangements for building features not subject to public view, nor shall they make any requirements except for the purpose of preventing development or demolition obviously in Congress to its surroundings. So all of that exists already. This is existing text. But he's suggesting that if in the future, for some reason, If we designate the interior of a historic landmark as historic, then it would be, that would be exempted, yeah. So the only way I could think of something like this would be if we designated the interior of the library, for example.

Well, no, let's say, for instance, someone like myself wanted to designate the interior spaces of a home like the living room. That's never been done before, but it could be. Miami Beach does it to the lobbies of hotels. This would allow you, you know, right now you have language that prevents you from considering interior arrangement or building features not subject to public view. But add this little phrase and in the future, if someone came to you and said, I'd like to designate the interior of my home, you could do it and consider the interior arrangements and areas not subject to public view.

So you're saying that future owners of that house would not be able to modify the interior of their house?

Someone may want to do it. I'm sorry, Warren? Someone may want to do it. It happens on Miami Beach concerning lobbies of hotels. uh you know the art deco ones uh there's a possibility that someone might come to you and ask to designate the interior of one of their homes for instance i may do it in the future and this would give you the power to consider interior arrangements and features not subject to public view right now you're not allowed to consider any of that yep

I'm not sure that I would support this modification we have always made it a point when we designate houses or when we talk to the public that we are not in any way dealing with the interior and I think Putting this in here might create controversy and might discourage people from coming forward and designating their houses.

On the other hand, it's not like we're obligating people that if they want to designate the exterior, they have to do the interior. It's more like, let's say, I think that my house has certain features that cannot be replicated, which I think it will be probably the 0.1% in Miami Shores. I understand Miami Beach hotels and things like that. But it's going to be so little. that if maybe somebody wants to do it, you allow that opportunity. Of course, if somebody buys it from that person, they cannot do the change, but they will know it. It's not like you would not be obligated to buy the house. Like when you buy right now a historic significant home, you know that you're buying into that. You're fully aware of it. The only case for example that I see that I think that it will be worth considering the beams remember we're talking about the beams of Mr.. I forgot his name in another house So They are beautiful as they are and they are historically significant so maybe I he would like to designate them. He would like to.

But then would that just be, would the language in that case, just specifically talking about architectural features inside, I'm interpreting this as furniture arrangements, as the handrail. Yeah, it's very broad here.

This is very broad. It's talking about the entire interior. And I would think that I know in Warren's case he wants to do this because he's got like the original furniture for the house and he's got stuff like that in there. I think that would be too restrictive myself and I don't know.

What if instead of saying the whole interior it could be interior or interior elements?

The way this is listed, it's the entire interior. Correct, right now.

That's what I'm saying, what if we adjust the language so that it gives the opportunity to either be one or the other based on, again, nobody's being obligated. It's something that if somebody wants to do, and if there is really the, enough information for it to be really considered historical, of course, no?

Yeah, I just think it goes against our history of only looking at the exterior of a home. And there's been some controversy about designated homes here. And misconceptions. And misconceptions.

I would worry that this would add to misinformation around what we do.

Exactly. So I would propose that we strike that. and leave it the way it is. Like if, Eddie, on a particular change, would that be something we would vote on separately from the overall document?

Right now, in real time. In essence, as we have gone through each line item, everyone has had consensus. When you reach an item where there's not consensus, you would essentially ask for a vote. How many are in favor of this as it is? How many would like for it to be removed?

Okay, so I don't need a motion. I just need to ask for a vote on this. Okay. So, my recommendation is that we not include that sentence. So how many in favor of removing that. Sentence that was added I as well.

Okay.

Me too. Me too. Okay.

And what about emotion on. I didn't I didn't additional language. So that is not.

Not that phrase, but... Not exactly like that. Propose the language, and then we can vote on that. If you want to propose language, we can vote on that. But as it stands, this has failed, so we will not be including that.

Okay. I think Patricia wanted to say something.

I think she just wrote it. Yes.

I agree that inclusion in the interiors might complicate the main reason we have been promoting all these just to designate houses. it's already complicated to, I think, to add more pressure with interiors, okay? And that changes because every new owner changes everything. So I know it's the right thing. I know it would be great to have interiors and exteriors as well, but I agree with Jeffrey that we have to keep it as it is. And now that I'm I would like to add, when we finish this, I want to add something about the historic and national designations relationship.

Okay, we will get to that after we are done here. So did you want to suggest some other language that we can vote on? Yeah, yeah.

Okay, what would you like to suggest? Maybe the language, and you know, it may not be very refined. I have like, you hear like- Okay, I'll write it down and refine it. But it could be unless like specific interior architectural elements. That way it's not like, oh, I cannot change a furniture, I cannot change a tile. It could be interior architectural elements, and the owner can decide which ones, because for example, there may be a beautiful fence, or inside of the home that divides two spaces, or the beams that we were just discussing, but that doesn't mean that you cannot touch anything else. That way it allows, it allows us to, be able to save some of these important elements that are not only limited to the exterior, but at the same time it does not create the controversy and the tension that could rise out of this?

Yeah, I still think we need to stay away from the interior. That's my opinion. So I don't think I would be supportive of that.

I see your point, especially if it's an architectural element that is... Or a railing or the stair, I don't know. Yeah, I was going to say something substantial that was load-bearing or structurally important. I could debate that, I think, but other things that may be decorative would be tough. I don't know if I'd be willing to debate that.

Plus, I don't know how we would enforce it. Like, they don't have to get a permit now to paint a beam or to do something like that. So I don't see how we could enforce it myself. That's the other problem. Mm-hmm. So I would prefer to just leave that out. So should we take another vote on Paula's suggestion, or are you okay?

I mean, at the end, responding to the question about how we enforce it, it's the same way that we enforce when somebody is going to do a kitchen. I mean, there may be somebody that is going to do it without consent. It can happen, but it can happen any way right now. with the building department or

Yeah, I mean, but the building department doesn't care about somebody painting an interior beam, for example. They don't issue permits for that, right? It's just structural changes, maybe.

Yeah, I'm not so concerned about the painting, more concerned about taking out, for example, the beams of a living room or the fireplace of the living room that has that historic significance.

I understand your concern. I do understand your concern. I still think that I would not be supportive of putting this in there.

Yeah, likewise. I would not vote for that.

Okay. So it doesn't mean we can't revisit it in the future if we come up with some idea of some other way to do it, but I think for now we should leave it out. Okay. The board shall not consider detailed design. And that was struck down. Interesting. Interior arrangements or building features not subject to public view. Nor shall they make any requirements of the purpose of preventing development or demolition obviously in Congress to the surroundings So everything here is existing But you're suggesting removing detailed design Yeah What do you mean by why would you remove detail detail design would be like Your plans I would think So design refers to interior plans and things like that?

No, it's kind of vague. No, because design is very broad. It's not only for the interior.

Yeah, but this paragraph has to do with the interior. This has to do with the interior. What it's saying here is that we are – so with the current – ordinance says is that we're restricted to the external of a building. So that's what this is saying, that we cannot consider detailed design into your arrangements or building features not subject to public view. And by detailed design, I'm assuming we're talking about plans. Warren, is that what you're... So tell us why you struck detailed design, for example, what your motivation for that is.

Are you addressing a question to me?

Yes. Okay.

Can you repeat that? Because the phone is kind of sketchy.

Okay. Section D. We're still on Section D. So you struck detailed design as part of what you're suggesting here. And I'm assuming that means... Sorry? Okay. So I'm assuming you mean that... we would have the ability to review interior plans and documents if you strike that. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean, the idea was to make your authority to review a designated interior workable. So detailed design didn't work in that.

But if we strike out the first part, yeah, it wouldn't make sense to strike this out. Right? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, exactly.

All right.

So if you're not going to, yeah.

Yeah, I got it. So let's put back detailed design. That should stay. Okay. Okay, detailed design stays, now that we struck the first part. Interior arrangements for building features not subject to public view, nor shall they make any requirements except for the purpose of preventing development or demolition, obviously incongruous to the surroundings. Now, you've struck out this whole section, and I guess rewritten it. The board shall have the power and duty to recommend approval of, one, historical markers, guidelines for historical markers, and issue certificates of recognition for individual sites and designated contributing properties in a zoning district. The board shall, on behalf of the village, with the approval of the council, be responsible for the receipt and custody of donations of property and artifacts. So this is language that we accepted last year.

Yeah, all that material you just read was moved to the previous subsection.

Right. Okay. That's great. Okay, so I agree with deleting it from here then, if everybody's okay with that. Yeah, that's number one.

It's in the other section.

Yeah, it's in the other section now. In the event a historically designated property is a subject of action taken by another village board or department ruling by the Historic Preservation Board... It used to say, shall be considered advisory to the other Board or Department, and the citing Board or Department shall consider the Historic Preservation Board's recommendations and their deliberations. And you are suggesting that it said, in the event a historically designated property is a subject of action taken or another village board or department rulings of the Historic Preservation Board in conflict with said action may be appealed by the city manager to the village council for resolution in accordance with section 1110. So what you're saying is that it would remove the advisory nature of that recommendation and uh it would uh make it that the city council would have to rule on it as opposed to that other board taking it as an advisory that's what how i'm interpreting it yeah the the origin of the language that currently exists in the village code came in the mid 90s

uh as a just a an amendment by at the spur of the moment i don't know how it got in there but it is inconsistent with this the date county minimum standards and also it's just um It is inconsistent with Florida law. The decisions that this board makes are what are called quasi-judicial, meaning that you are applying a set of facts to policy established by the village council. It is binding on the property owner and the village when it's final. But this, in the next breath... makes those quasi-judicial decisions simply advisory, which is, that's unlawful, and it's inconsistent with the requirements of the county, which require you to have the authority to make quasi-judicial decisions on certificates of appropriateness, for example. So this is just clean-up language.

I agree. I agree with this. Everybody okay with that? Okay. Section 3, no changes. Section 4, no changes.

That's just boilerplate. You're reading boilerplate now. Okay. All right.

Okay. So, Eddie, just... Just some advice on that. So now that we've gone through it and modified it, now what would be the next step? Would you take that to the attorney based on the modifications?

The next step is that there's a forms that there's a board form that's issued to all the committees and whenever they're in this um exercise they are i believe it's the chair that fills out the form okay um i was able to acquire it so i wanted to see how the discussions went tonight so i can circulate it tomorrow okay um and then essentially you fill out the form and you provide it to the village clerk and the village clerk Essentially coordinates with the council members, and then they make the decision of the next step. Okay. So correct staff. So somebody needs to update this. That would be it would be clearer if it would be clear.

Okay so. Warren, did you want to update it or do you want me to update it based on the changes we made? I can certainly do it.

Yeah, let me do it.

You're right. It should be an official board member. Okay. So I will update this. So do we need a motion to just accept it as amended? Probably, right? Well, we want to do it line by line.

So yeah, it's probably a good idea.

Okay. Can I have a motion to accept the changes to exhibit for Historic Preservation Board Powers Ordinance?

I motion.

Second?

Second. Okay.

All in favor? Aye. Okay, great. And I will modify the document and then you'll send out that form. Okay, super. Thank you. Okay.

guess is there another exhibit we have to go through again through now or is that it and um when we released our agenda yeah uh i received a report from chair bonaduce but we had already released the agendas but she asked me to circulate it so i did print it out and you have it it's the last ITEM IN YOUR PACKET, AND IT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION REPORT FOR 2024. OKAY.

BEFORE WE GO TO THAT REPORT, PATRICIA, YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, YOU HAD A COMMENT TO MAKE THAT WE TABLED UNTIL WE FINISHED. DID YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT?

OR, YOU KNOW, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO

say that um i want to ask to discuss i don't know when this was ruled that uh i my understanding is that only if the property is locally designated it can be proposed as a national designated

That's what the code currently says. So we've proposed in this ordinance change is that not only it doesn't have to be designated, but it has to be included in a thematic group that was previously submitted for national recognition. Because remember, the whole reason for changing it is because we have this thematic group, that second thematic group that wasn't submitted that we may want to submit for the National Register. Many of the houses on that thematic group are not locally designated. And so if we don't modify the ordinance, we would not be able to submit those and include them.

Or even work on them.

Or even work on them, yeah. We are proposing that we change the ordinance to remove that requirement. Yeah. Perfect. Okay.

That was my question.

Yeah. Okay. And then do you want to talk about your report?

Yes. If you have it printed, thank you so much, Eddie. I didn't ask you to print it because I know it's As you know, by law, we have to present not only Miami Shores Village. I'm talking about Miami-Dade County. It's required now before for all the boards. And last year, as you all know, was an outstanding and special year because it was our centennial, and we all worked really, really hard to make a ton of celebrations, and I think This deserves to be on public records for anybody to have it online and check it out anytime they want. And also bullet point everything that we did. So I started from day zero until December and collect some pictures of all the events for you or to review. Maybe it's too big, maybe it's something that I missed, but I just wanted you to have it, and maybe maybe you can put it on the next agenda to approve it, so we can just present it to the village council as

Yeah, so you did a lot of work here, Patricia, and it looks really great. Great. Yeah, it looks really great. I mean, I don't know that I'm going to have any substantial changes, maybe a couple of little typos or grammatical things, but it's not a big deal. So this is really great. A lot, a lot of work that you did in here. And it summarizes the activities really well. Yeah, of course. We did it. Yeah. Yeah, we did. Yes, we did. Okay, so then do you want us to just give you email comments and then we accept it at the next meeting? I think so.

I think it takes a large time to check it out.

Yeah. I would think we would, yeah. Yeah, so I'm looking at a calendar. Our next meeting is May 21st, which means that my agenda would be due to you by the 14th. So I would need to have the finalized copy of this before the 14th of May. Okay.

I don't think that's a problem. The earlier the better, but... So can we instead... Okay, so it's okay if we provide, but do you sit with the email comments on this? Not a Sunshine Law issue? Yeah, I'm asking Eddie. Yeah, I'm asking Eddie.

Or I'm trying to think what's the clean way. Yeah, what's the clean way to do so? Okay.

This is a first draft, correct? It is. It is a first draft, so it's never been read aloud to the public or anything? No. Then no, the email would be fine.

Email is okay? If we provide our feedback in email?

It hasn't been officially added to any agenda.

Correct. Okay. Super. So that's what we'll do, Patricia. And then the target, we have to have it finalized by the 14th, and you have to send it to Eddie by the 14th to make the agenda for the 21st. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Super. Is there any other item or discussion? No. discussion item from the board anything else that you'd like to talk about just confirming our next four meetings at 21st 21st yes yep yeah I'll be there in advance

um okay if there's nothing else i have two announcements sorry yeah i'm sorry sure so um the parks department asked me to formally extend an invitation april 26th that's a sunday from 3 30 to 7 30 is the green day 2025. i understand mr sade has already been in contact with parks there's going to be i think a tent set up but they wanted to extend for the entire historic preservation if they wanted to be on the station and I guess inform the public as to what the duties are, what the board does.

We did that last year and for Green Day we had a booth and a tent and we had some material that we handed out, some stuff about the centennial events and things like that, but maybe we can do other stuff. But yeah, it would be good to have whoever is available that day.

When is it?

It's the 26th. May? April. April 26th is Green Day.

Oh.

Saturday.

Yeah. It says Sunday. So they confirmed that they're going to have a tent for us and a table for our... Well, she asked me to reach out to the members to coordinate the tent.

Okay.

I felt like it was... Do I need to talk to her? Her name is Jacqueline. I'll send you her info. Okay, that would be great.

Do I need to pay?

Huh?

Is there not like a fee for that?

They're, I think, is the village paying the fee? Because I know that the Chamber of Commerce usually has a fee.

It's like 200 bucks or something.

Yeah, I think last year it was 150. All those details, unfortunately. Yeah, I can ask her. I think I was in the email. Yeah, just forward me whatever she sent, if you don't mind, and then I'll talk to her and see if they're paying the fee or if we have to come up with a fee.

And this email didn't reference anything. It didn't reference the fee. No. Okay.

It will be April, are you sure? 26. The 26th is a Saturday. Yeah, it's a Saturday.

26 is a Saturday.

So it's a Saturday. Yeah, it is a Saturday. It's not a Saturday.

No, it's a Saturday.

Oh, yeah, I have it here. Yeah. Yeah, 3.30 to 7.30. So you're going to send me whatever that you... Yes. Okay. Yeah, I'll send it to you. Okay, good. Yeah, we just... It starts in the afternoon, remember? Remember last year we ran into you, yeah. Yeah. All right, very good. So Green Day is April 26th. We are going to have a table and tent, so anybody that's in town, please plan on manning the booth with us.

And then the meeting, the next meeting is 22nd, correct?

21st. May 21st. That should be a Wednesday. And we do expect at least two certificates of appropriateness on that meeting.

Those are always fun.

Those will be fun every time. These will be a little different because they're window door. So this will be different.

You're going to send it in advance, right? By the 14th, you'll definitely have it. Yes, Patricia.

I don't have yet confirmation from...

Laura Fetalski about the date in June.

Okay.

You know that I cannot be so cheap. I'm in contact with her and she's brainstorming the date. She already knows her house is going to be June house of the month. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily push her considering the situation, like you said. Let's just wait for her. I also have emailed...

Sounds good. Thank you. I have an email that was submitted with the application, and I've reached out to them because when a property is designated, there's a covenant that has to be filled out, and I'm not getting any responses.

Yeah, her husband is super sick. So that's the other thing, Patrizia, is like there's the covenant.

Yeah, and I also have the plaque here also.

Yeah.

I know, I know.

So... I know that you don't want to push. It's not good to push with him being sick, but yep.

So... Well, maybe on May 3rd when we have the tour, maybe they just get enthusiastic and, you know, they just come out and we can just re-touch the subject.

Okay. Sounds good. Okay, so everybody has an action item to get Batista comments on this and do it in the next like week or two because she's got to finalize it by the 14th. Okay. All right. Do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting?

I just have one more question. Did you get in contact with the owner of that other house?

Which one?

The one that was on leaving. Did he call you back already?

He did not. He texted me back and I said, he said, let's talk tomorrow. And I sent him, he asked me to send him an email with a description of the tour and stuff like that. And I sent it to him, but I haven't heard back from him. And I texted him again. We're waiting. But we have two houses now on the tour, which is great.

Hopefully he says yes, because then we're going to be three. Yeah, we'll be three. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Do I have a motion, somebody? Second that, yes. You'll second it? You'll propose a motion? Okay. Then the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye, Patricia.

Thank you very much, Warren.

Thank you, Warren.

Yeah. It's definitely beneficial.