P&z Board - Regular Meeting

It's 6:30, so we'd like to call the meeting to order. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. May be seated. Next, we have the approval of minutes from the uh August 12th. I'll make a motion to approve them.

All right, we have a motion and we have a second. Want to go ahead and call roll first as well? Yep. Board member Deasier, present. Board member Cruz, present. Board member Julia is absent. Board member Leonio present. Vice Chair Rodriguez here. And chair Senra present. Chair you have quorum. And there was a motion to approve the minutes by board member de laser. It was seconded by which board member? Mr. Chair. Okay. So let's go ahead and take role further minutes.

Board member Cruz. Yes. Yes. Board member Julia's absent. Board member Lonzio. Yes. Board member Deassier. Yes. Vice Chair Rodriguez. Yes. And Chair Shenra. Yes. Okay. The minutes have been approved. All right. This segment now is uh for public comments. Anybody that is going to uh speak on any issue uh retain retain pertaining to uh I guess the subjects that we have. Before I'm going to go ahead and swear the swear yet. Yeah. Not for the public comments. The instructions for public comments. Yeah.

State your name, address, and state your name, address, and Yeah. Good evening and welcome to the planning and zord meeting. If you are here, planning and board, zoning, planning, and zoning.

Yes. If you are here and would like to participate in public comments, please approach the podium. State your name and address for the record. Anyone wishing to part participate in remote public comments online or via Zoom, please raise your hand by clicking on the reactions icon and select raise hand. Those of you joining the meeting via phone by any chance, please raise your hand by pressing the asterk or the star symbol and then the number nine. It will then allow you to speak. Each member of the public is afforded three minutes including those here as well. So again, welcome to the board meeting and you have three minutes.

Mr. through the chair to the clerk. Um, you want to also advise them that if they're going to speak after they get sworn in, they can they're going to if they're going to speak on the same issue, they'll have to get sworn in afterwards. I believe he's here just for public general public comment. Thank you. Yeah.

Good evening. First, let me say uh Mr. Chair, members of the board, town staff, my name is Michael Coot. I reside at 14621 Dade Pine Avenue. And before I get started, I want to say thank you for all the work that you do. Uh typically you don't hear from people unless they're they have uh some bone of contention. And so it's a thankless job for the uh volunteers I know and for the town staff. It's also thankless. So thank you very much for what you do. Uh recently I went into the permitting office and uh I requested to put a fence in my front yard and uh I was asked, "Well, what kind of fence? You're talking about a hedge?" I said, "No." "An ornamental fence?" I said, "No." They said, "Hedges that uh don't exceed 4t greenery." I said, "No, no, a privacy fence. I'd like to have a privacy fence runs along the length of my uh front yard up to the sidewalk." And they almost laughed me out of the office. And said, "That's not happening. It's against code and there's a number of deed restrictions. You cannot do it." I said, "Well, that's funny because the reason I'm here is because that's exactly what I have." In the June 10th meeting, a variance was granted for my neighbor who resides at 6985 Maple Terrace. His home sits perpendicular to the other 40 homes on Dade Pine. As a result of him enclosing his sideyard, I now have a privacy fence that runs the length of my front yard and it runs into some greenery there that has effectively made it a a fence that goes all the way from the backyard to five feet from the uh sidewalk. So, I know sometimes, you know, you make decisions and you don't get the the total picture. And what happened here was I never received a notice. So, the first thing people say, "Well, it's kind of on you. You know, you're you're the guy that needs to speak on your behalf." I didn't receive a notice because of my uh chapter 119 protection. So, that's

another issue that we need to address. However, having said that, the town uh recommended against the variance and because only one of the seven conditions had been met and this the condition that was met that it would not cause adverse uh I forget what the wording is exactly would be approved causing substantial detriment to adjoining properties which I might take issue with. So, what ended up happening is I now have a a fence in my front yard um that was granted through the variance process. I understand that there's little I can do about it. We we have addressed with staff how we can potentially get around the variance uh the notification issue, but I would recommend conceivably giving somebody a packet, a handheld packet that when they're requesting a permit, they have to go over to the neighbor and give it to them because as was mentioned, people are on vacation, people rent properties, maybe they don't see it, they throw it out. So maybe something that would ensure greater transparency and uh issues like this we could perhaps keep from happening in the future. So, um, that that would be, uh, I think the large part with the three minutes I have say maybe maybe we can consider adopting some type of, uh, of packet that would include or I'd leave it up to town staff, but the fact that I didn't get a notice, I'm dependent on the, uh, the council, the board to make the recommendations based on the criteria, and I know you're trying to please a lot of people, but in this case, one of seven um, of the criteria was met, and it was still approved and now I have a a privacy fence in my front yard which I'm sure nobody on the board would be happy with. I'm certainly not. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Anybody else? Is there anyone else providing public comments at the chambers? Okay, there's no one online as well. And for the record, we did receive the written comment that was sent to us via email. You do have the physical copy and we did email you it as well from Freddy Partardo in reference to the variance ending in 0152. Just for the record through the chair of the clerk, did you print that out those letters or is this only on email?

Oh, is this this packet right here? Got it. Thank you. So, are we ready?

It's up to you. Yeah. Let's move on. No public comments here. You're the man. You want to swear everybody in? All right. I close the uh public comments segment. Perfect. Chair, if I may, before moving into the quadrant judicial public hearings, um any applicants uh that are providing testimony should be sw to be sworn in at this moment. Okay. Those of you that will be providing public testimony, please go ahead and rise. Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth? So help you God.

Thank you so much. You may be seated. Prior to moving into the quadrant judicial hearings, if anyone on on the board has any exparte communications or needs to recuse themselves one by one, you may do so at this time.

Yeah, good.

Okay. Please be advised that the following items on the board's agenda are quasi judicial in nature. An opportunity for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentation presentations on each item. All testimony including public testimony and evidence will be made under oath and affirmation. Additionally, any p Additionally each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination. If you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn, your testimony will be given its due weight. The general public will not be permitted to cross-examine witnesses, but the public may request the board to ask questions of the staff or witnesses on their behalf. Persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization. Any person presenting documents to the board should provide the town clerk with a minimum of 10 copies. Further details of any of of the quadrant judicial procedures may be obtained from the clerk. Okay. So at this time we'll move on to the first matter before you which is item number VA2025-0367. That would be folio number 3220500220720. The applicant's name is Rammon Hustamante and the property is located at 16741 Northwest 81st Street 81st Avenue rather Miami Lakes, Florida 33016. Mr. Chair, first we'll hear from the town of Miami Lakes. Good evening board. Justin Teleria, planning and zoning. So we're presenting VA 2025-0367 applicant's name Raone Hustamonte and the staff is recommending denial for

this proposal which is one variance to allow a two-foot setback from the interior side property line for a driveway where five minimum 5 ft minimum setback is required. The variance is being requested to accommodate a vehicular entrance to the rear of the property where the garage is located. That's all. And for the record, we just want to uh bring to attention, board member Julia has arrived to the meeting.

Any questions uh to the town staff? I have one um through the chair. Um in this property though is this is the one that has the garage entrance through the back. Yeah. Right through this through that side. Yeah. And the proposal is that they want to extend the existing driveway or replace that one. They they want to extend it um yeah further to the interior side property line. Two feet from the interior side property line. And right now it's how how far is it now? I think it yeah I think it is five. Um I think it's compliant at the moment but they want to extend it

and the the applicant didn't submit any plans. Uh I don't see any. Yeah. Yeah. You do you do have something on the pack through the chair. There's something on the uh on the drawing. I drove to the property this afternoon took a look at it. the chair. Um, so page 18 right now, right now our standard width is 10. No, no, I'm talking about the the driveway, the actual concrete driveway. There's a there's a maximum, correct?

Where the driveway cuts the the sidewalk, the maximum is 20. um or 10 for a max for a maximum added width of 30. 30, right? Yes. Okay. That's not being effective. So that it can be 15 and 15, right? Or 14. Yeah. Remember when I did mine, it was the same way. I have 20 and 10. Yes. Or 15. Or 15. Yeah. Whatever it is, it equals 30. Yeah. Whatever grows to 30.

Yeah. And um again to staff, why why is the why can't they take over the green space in the center island instead of going outward? That's a good question for the applicant. Yeah, they are. That's we're going to do this driveway here. Yeah. Right. But what's the exist? They only have a little straight straight drive in now. Right. But I don't see a picture of existing. Yeah, but I went to the Okay, I got you. If you look at it, you look at it. Okay. So, this this is this is the new plan. That would be the new plan. That's not the existing plan.

No, that's not existing. That's what they're proposed to do. Okay. They have a straight driveway.

Yeah, it works. Anybody have any other questions for the town through the chair? Wouldn't they need a variance for our landscaping uh percentage for compliance because there's no landscaping here? I mean the green area

again depending on how like how much they get and if you realize that they're ask we're asking for hold on that they're requesting um the variance for the setback um depending on how you grant that variance they may or may not need that additional variance. Does that make sense? If if because it's 40 60 on the front right now they still have 40 60 even if they go too close to the edge in the front. Does that make sense? Right now the art is I thought they were supposed to have 30% that green area. Right. That's what I thought.

40 60 40% 40% more. There you go. Yes. And right now they have 4060 because if you see that center island is really really large. So, right now they have 4060 even with the increased um um even with the increased width of the driveway and they're not using the full 30 ft long. Correct. They're only going to go 26 feet. Actually, they're not going to use the full 30. Realize that there's five feet on the other side. This drawing is a little bit deceptive because it's showing some of these markers are not correctly drawn. Uh if you see on the on the uh let me see where is north and south.

Um north is to north and south is to the side on the left on the left side of the page which north south runs on either side of the this way. Okay. So the north side of the property you see that that setback on the other side is actually five feet. It doesn't look like 52 feet but it is um and again you know so it's not drawn to scale very well. Right. Right now the the lot is 9,350 square feet.

40% of that is 3,740 for landscaping area. If we go based on the 40%. They have a huge concrete slab on the right side of the property going all the way to the back. There's hardly any green area here. I don't I don't see 3,700 square ft of green area in here at all. And what what is the purpose of the five foot uh of the uh reduction on on the on the side setback?

Uh Omero, I think that the calculation for the percentage of green area is for the front yard that is determined at this point for the whole property everywhere. So the determination of the green area that we would address would be for the front yard only, not the complete property. Yeah. But I think what he's saying is you already have a concrete pretty much driveway there in the side in the side. So increasing the front you you you really are taking or adding a lot more concrete and mostly mostly concrete. I mean if they're using it for parking or aesthetics then we that's

through the through the chair. We're doing a lot of discussing of the item where we should let them talk and hear what they have to say. discuss any item at this time. Any other questions for the staff? Is there any violations on the property? Uh, let me check. I believe no. According to our records, there are no open building permits or code violations. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you. Thank you.

Mr. Mr. Chair, we can now hear from the applicant. If you please state your name and address for the record,

good evening. Um, commissioners, I appreciate name and address,

the opportunity. My name is Rammon Justante. I live in Royal Oak at 16741 Northwest 81 Avenue. I live there 39 years. I was the first one building in all royal. In the beginning when we building this house, the only concrete for to go in the back garage that I had is a a small piece like you see maybe you had in the pictures over there, you know. And I have just for the entry I had just two feet more or less of the grass in my side. Another no problem. No, what I wish for you is that to make one exception. I want to build a circular drive after many years I never have. I want to build a circular drive but I had a problem with the right side which is will be for my enter in the garage which in the back is a difference from the community I know but if I need to leave five feet the grass that will be a little narrow for me to enter my car. Yes, I can do slowly. I can do enter. But the another problem is that I had a gate from here to here all the space that I have. First of all would be a little narrow to go for my car and secondly I would be

very uh close close and audible to had my grass here in the front of my uh gate all those my gate that's will be terrible is the problem is the 44% of the grass demanding the low that will be no problem. We can um make more space here in the island in this green island. Rather it to be uh 12 feet could be maybe 11 or all the need and we can make the 40% for many other area that will be no problem to continue to please the law. the 40% the area green you know but that is very important for me because my garage is in the back all those and I had a concrete enter all those and that will have uh from the beginning if you thinking this is a problem with the the wret is not I live 40 years there and never have problem with this my neighbor My neighbor has most high property than me and also has a claim. They go in the uh in the street the water will be no any problem just aesthetic and I know the law but any any law has his exception and this is the they asking you to make the seption you know give me

two feet the grass and complete the 40 uh in another area I need to make requires the island. I do. No problem. This is my petition for you. I have I'm sorry. I had my neighbor here and I he is no problem. Uh can you come? This is my neighbor. [Music] You have to name sworn in we have to trans we have to translate otherwise it's not going to work. translate.

Oh, she could translate. No, staff cannot translate. Cannot translate. Staff cannot translate. Justin, you can't translate, buddy. Staff cannot translate. Stay there. Mr. Justin, sorry. Can you translate for your neighbor? Yeah, I will. My name is Bernice Costamante and I live at 16741 Northwest 81 Avenue, Mary Licks. And I'm his wife, but you need to translate for him. Okay. And this is this is Jorge. And his address is

Oh, yeah. 16. Okay. So, he's across the street.

Across the street. Right in front of our house. [Music] I agree with his uh petition. So, I'm I'm trying to figure out why through the chair.

Um, why you need the extra two feet? No, no, no. Okay. It's okay. Well, actual I had more or less two feet, right?

And that's is normal. My gate, my property is here. My gate is all those area. And actually have two feet will be like this. If we put five feet, that would be a little narrow the concrete to go in because the concrete's coming here all those and also the the green will be so terrible because it's like make a a gate horrible, you know, it's it's not good. One of the biggest is a little difficult to go inside. Yes, I can slowly I can but it's not really is the problem is the again is 40% this weekend. No problem. We make more the island bigger the island.

Yeah, I'm not worried about the 40%. I'm worried about why you're going with but now I understand. I I I went to Google Earth and I I I see what you were saying about the small driveway and I understand. So, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Well, but if if the approach if the approach is 13 ft, is isn't the uh the uh the length of the driveway inside the property 13 13T also? No, because it's going to go beyond the two feet or 3 feet. I I don't know exactly how it's only going to be 13t right on the sidewalk, but then it opens up. approach you 13 ft, right? And then it opens up, I think. No, there's no need to do that.

The thing is through the chair. No. No. Can I ask uh Ramon currently the concrete that you have there now, is that going to be removed? Sorry. No. in the in the front. No, in the back right in the front the the concrete slab and the width of that area is it currently

how wide is that currently now do you think? actual is 2 feet of grass here almost two feet right now. You have 10 copies. Mr. Just a do you have copies of what you're holding?

Yes. Here, if you want, hand it to me and I'll pass it on. Thank you. I think he's replacing everybody quick through through the share to Aalino's uh Aino's point if if they're asking for a two foot sight setback. Okay. And by public work standards on the approach, the radius has to be no less than 2.5. That radius will be encroaching on the neighbor's property the approach on both sides. No, no, no.

They're not requesting all the way to the sidewalk. They're requesting to within 5 ft of the sidewalk. So if you see the drawing again, it's very hard to see because it's not drawn, but you see that there's like a there's like a camper that comes out 5 ft out, right? So the the actual cut at the sidewalk continues to be 13 and they're campering out to 2 feet extending out by by an additional 3 ft. The clearance they actually can make the two driveways a little bigger, get the whole 30 ft. Yeah, in the center they'll have put in your room and they'll have

and u just to answer your previous question that I worked out the actual uh numbers their uh uh total uh front yard is 2,125 square ft. The 60% of that would be 1,275 and they're proposing with the new configuration 1398. That being said, they are not requesting uh additional square footage, which means that if the variance should be granted, condition of approval would be that uh the square footage be removed from elsewhere to meet the 1275. Mhm. Make sense?

The the right now from what I'm looking at the picture there's a blue line And yeah, it extends already. This is the blue one is the five feet, right? According the concrete is you see. So my property is almost 2 feet, maybe less, you know. And and so this property, this part was part of your original permit when you built the house. Yes, I had the original U blueprint here and and what basically right now the concrete goes almost all the way to your property line the one that you have there now.

Almost. Yes. So what you're proposing is to replace it and now leave about two feet maybe may maybe more uh because there is not two feet probably less. Right.

I want to uh asking you to let me two feet of the grass to have very nice enter rather than five feet. It's one side only is because I have my garage in the back. This is the sidewalk and this here. What I'm saying is that if he has a third 13 foot driveway here, why doesn't he keep going over the 13 ft and maintain the five foot green?

Follow the blue line. Is that okay? He doesn't have 5T. I don't know that that was I mean my comment is that if you if you have the uh 2.5 radius at uh why don't you keep going straight and maintain the five foot setback in the green area. Okay. No, no. Could you repeat the question, please? Why?

Okay. Right. Right here. Okay. This is the sidewalk. This is the sidewalk, right? Okay. Yes. And I assume that this here is where the uh the orange the approach the approach orange the approach. So my question is why don't you maintain the blue line

as green area. That's because this is five feet and you see pictures look like this but reality is in the beginning is not like this. It really is big one. It's wider at the beginning and that green area there breaks up the picture is look why a lot

is kind of like at an angle. You should know the angle. I took a picture of it this afternoon. I went to the right you want to pass it down so you can see it. So looking look looking at your measurements. Correct. Looking at your measurements. Yes. Okay. The gate from wall to gate is 15 feet. Correct. Yes. the gate. So that's

that's um more than what you need for a standard car. Yes, you're right. But you take one and a half feet to the column plus 6 in of the gate with the poster and everything plus six inches another side with it the wall of the house, you know. that will be more and more narrow. I don't know exactly, but it's right. But we're still talking about 12. Let's let's say it's three feet, right? You're still talking about 12. Okay. And then a standard car is what? 8 ft wide. The standard parking space is 8.

Yes. Standard parking space is 8 ft. Standard street uh and a and a driveway in a parking lot is 10 ft. A lane is 9 to 12 feet depending if it carries trucks. a truck a trucking lane that carries heavy traffic. So I mean you have a lot of space a lot of space.

Yes. I told you in the beginning that I can go take my car enter. Yes. But will be not what is normal and as is and so very terrible to see from the gate uh five feet from the gate. both feet over there close to the green and the rest. Yes, I can. I told you I can slowly I can enter but it's not what really anyone which likes to do but the gate will open

through the chair. Have you considered giving the having the five feet of grass correct that the code requires? And then as you approach the gate then having a a a smaller poured concrete and you take less footage. That way you'll it won't look so awkward like you're saying. But it the the the problem is not the awkward look because you're going to landscape it. So if you landscape it, if you put a hedge, if you put something nice there, you I I understand what you're saying about the foot and a half. Go ahead and translate. Yeah. Okay. I think you understand. And you say from start from five feet

and then you go from the sidewalk in the right from the sidewalk and then when you get close then you put a small piece of concrete. That's it will be possible all the pain uh how far away from the sidewalk to start a curve right two feet you give me very very nice you know I would be four five feet and turn until two feet that could be was that was that miss Alonzo was that something that was that

was that was that suggested to or is that still doesn't meet the code? They still need some variance for that. Correct. I the time of our initial meeting uh the applicant was offered an administrative variance for a foot which is what I can do without uh without the board's approval uh because you know 4 foot setbacks are present in some places and you know a foot would be um other than that anything else would require a variance. Yeah. So he could have gone one foot one foot. So he would be a total of 13 from the 12 that he's we're calculating give or take. He would have been at 13. Okay, I got enough information. So we can give him an extra foot

through the share. I have made this point before and I I want to clarify it one more time. Your house is in Royal Oaks, correct? Yes. Do you understand that you have to go through the HOA and get an approval as well besides the approval that you get here which let's say that here as the planning and zoning board we can go ahead and grant the variance but that doesn't mean when you go to Royal Oaks to the architectural review board that they're going to go ahead and approve it they might disapprove it and you might not be able to do it because we do have bylaws I present and I had approved you Sir, I have not with me but in the moment where I going to

just want to make sure because I know the I am the president of the HOA and I know the people that sit on the board I am very very uh concerned that a lot of the times we get cases that they get approved here but when they get in front of the a ARB they do not get approved because they they do not comply with our bylaws. I had and then again those are two different things that here we can go ahead and approve it and whatever issues we have with the HOA is the HOA but I always said it before one day we're going to have a case where the HOA might end up suing the town because there might be a conflict of interest

because it has to obey by the bylaws. our bylaws are are the rules of the HOA to the chair. Yeah, you can make uh chair member, thank you for making mention of that, but just for the record and for the purposes of taking a vote today, that is not to be taken into consideration. I just wanted to put that on the record. Correct. Okay, I understand that. Okay. Uh but he he brings a genuine question. Maybe the attorney can answer it. Whatever decisions are here, the HOA has no no override on it. uh the the HOA hasn't override themselves. If if our bylaws are restricted, there's no liability to the town for the decisions we make. If the bylaws of the HOA are strictered than the town,

the HOA has Yes, the HOA wins. You're absolutely right. But there's no liability to the town, right? Want to hear from the town attorney?

Yeah, Mr. Vice Chair, thank you uh for for that comment. Just and I've made this comment several times to this board. Um the HOA is its own governing entity. If they want to take action, they're free to do so. But their opinions, uh, especially that of the president because he's making an opinion as a president, not as a board member, is not to be taken into consideration. You guys are an independent board, uh, of the town. You're here to, uh, look at this application solely through the lens of a board of the town and through its the code of the town. Uh, if later the HOA decides that it wants to take action, it can do so with its own independent council, it own independent board, and that has is irrelevant to to the town's decision today. No, no, I know, but that's not what I'm

And I do understand that and we've been this avenue before. I just want to make sure that he him as a resident, he knows that they need an approval. I completely completely agree with you. My concern is the statement that you made that the HOA is going to have problems with the town and sue possibly sue the town. There's no liability to the town for a decision we make because the HOA has the final approval on that on that area. They're mutually exclusive. They're mutually exclusive. Exactly. the decision you make today is is a decision you make today based on the the town's code. Right. Right. The HOA ultimately has their regulations. They can do whatever they they want on their own.

I mean, we like like the town at any time can grant let's say the the council decides we're going to put boats everywhere. Well, you can't do it because there's a deed restriction. Although it's open to all other areas that do not have the deed restriction, the deed restricted properties are still locked into that deed restriction. So, there's no liability on the town for that. Correct. So, another great example of that, uh, Vice Mayor, is the, uh, HOA of of Royal Oaks doesn't allow for basketball hoops, but the town does. So, if you want to have a basketball hoop and you don't live in Royal Oaks and you don't have an HOA, you can have one. In Royal Oaks, they they don't allow it, but that's separate. Exactly. Is that Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you.

Any more questions to the the applicant said that he already has a He already has an approval. Yeah. All right. Any more questions? All right, let's open it up for discussion here for the hearing first. Yeah, let's close the public hearing.

No, we open it up for the uh board to discuss to see if we can come to some kind of compromise. I mean I in okay in my opinion I don't I don't think it makes sense to to have that um that um that turn and it is more more visible in the um in the in the sketch that he has where in my opinion he should follow the yellow line

and I and and it shows in in the picture that um Mr. Uh I think that uh the town will allow him to go four feet on an administrative uh give him a foot that the town will give him a foot on an administrative uh right format. So if we give him the foot then he doesn't have to go through all of this and just go four feet all the way and make a motion to do that to allow him to go four feet all the way across. And the reason for that is because There are other properties that have been given the 4T, right? That's that's standard. And we need a place for the water to go. You're actually giving them one foot. One foot, right?

Not four. No, we're leaving a 4ft green area. Giving them one foot. Mhm. Which administratively, Miss Alonzo said that they would do. Okay. Any more discussion? Is that Is that a motion? That's a motion. Yeah. I'll second the motion so we could open it up for discussion. Okay. So the motion that we have is to uh allow four feet of greenway right of greenway or five is right instead of five where five is required right go to four

that's a compromise uh to to work with you guys. So we have a motion and we have a second. Yeah, I I think at the end of the day, the new driveway will actually be um further away. There will be more green area with the new driveway, at least as to the neighbor on the right, which is the really the principal person technically affected because I think the existing driveway encroaches further. I don't think there's almost any setback on the existing drive. And on the way back, if you notice the the house goes away from the side property line, so it has 18 feet, still have 14 feet, so he can turn into

they can still turn in. I I I completely agree with the motion. I mean, he's he's getting, you know, an additional foot administratively already. Hey, I I think that that that the town did the right suggestion and I agree with Miss Alono's uh recommendation,

but I I would like to make a um a comment again that um I mean I I really don't have the the the numbers here, but visually I cannot see 40% of green area in the front. So, just to reiterate the calculations that I just did really quickly here, uh, their total um, front yard area right now is 2125 2,125 ft. The required um, open space, this no, the required um, maximum, let me say if I say this right, maximum uh, paved area is 60% of that, which is 1275 square ft.

Okay. The configuration you see right now including the additional five feet of um of park of driveway is 1398 which yes it is more than 1275. However, because they're not requesting additional square footage as a variance. Mhm. Uh whatever you decide to give or to grant or not grant would be contingent on then shaving off enough square footage elsewhere to come to the 1275.

Right. So yeah, and I believe the applicant said like on one side if it had to be instead of 13 ft 12 feet on the other side towards like where the pool area is, he will make the adjustments there. He just doesn't want to make the adjustments here because of the garage entrance which is all the way in the back kind of they would need to shave off how many feet? A little bit more than 100. So they would be at 87 feet if they go 4 feet from the uh because I just did the the run there having the 4 foot green area. Okay. So that's 87 feet right there. It's about that's about half of what they need to shave.

So we could include in the motion that they say shave off 120 square ft of the concrete area. I think that's they're not asking for the variance. So at the end of the day it has to be the 40. You know the 6040 rule is to they're not asking for a long put five in the front here. They can make it three feet all the way across. Yeah. But if if we give them the if we if we do nothing administratively, Mr. Alonso can still give him the foot. If we vote on it, he still gets the foot. Just so you know that I if if at this point my offer of doing anything administrative is sort of off the table because we're here. The point of the administrative variance would have been to not do this. Right. Right.

Okay. Now we're here. So now it's on you. So if you want to grab the foot, that's on you. If you don't want to grab the foot, that's on your feet. Understood. So you want to repeat the motion? Uh, member Gier. Yes. I would give them a 4ft green area all the way down, which gives them an extra foot all the way down the the side uh to the back and that they should reduce the rest of the paved area so that they end up with 120 ft less than what they're showing here. Now, Yeah. To meet the 460,

we'll do the 4060. Okay. Anybody second? Second. I think it's the same. Yeah. Same motion. I just 4060 plus a foot that they be for right away. Right. Okay. You want to call the role? Yes, sir. Calling roll for the motion made by the board member Deasierra and seconded by board member Julia. Board member Cruz. Yes. Board member Leonio. No. Board member Julia. Yes. Board member Deassierra. Yes. Vice Chair Rodriguez. Yes. And Chair Senra. Yes.

The motion passes. Okay. We got an extra foot. Chair, may I call the second matter? Yes.

Okay, perfect. Next hearing the for the next hearing, it's number V A RH 2025 0152 folio number 32205 011 0590. The applicant is Marco Marco Alfonso and the property is located at 16581 Northwest 84th Avenue, Miami Lakes, Florida 33016 if we can hear from the town. Yes. So this is VH2025-0152 as was mentioned by the legal team. Um the applicant's name is Marco Alfonso. He's requesting two variances from the town. One of them is to allow a spiral staircase with a rear setback of 17t 6 in where 25 ft minimum are required. And the second one is to allow a spiral staircase with an interior side setback of 5 feet 7 in sorry from the interior side property line where 7'6 in minimum are required. Um staff is recommending denial for the proposal as shown in the attached plans. And something to note as well is there's an open code violation for work without permits that was issued on November 26th, 2024. Um the uh the code for that is C2024-1700. Work without permits of an aluminum st spiral staircase and balcony. And that is all question through the chair. You're saying the violation is for the staircase and the balcony there. So there's two violations or one violation or is there a stair or

the staircase and the balcony is one thing? Yeah, it's it was combined into one violation. And they were done without a permit. Yeah, the balcony and the staircase. Yes.

Is there a specific code for staircases that's different from any other part of any other structure or is that considered the same? Not as an allowable encroachment. Excuse me. Not as an allowable encroachment. Uh the the allowable encroachment list in rear and sideyards does not include it includes balconies, it includes uh bay windows, it includes cornnesses, it includes awnings, it includes the roof overhang overhangs, but it does not include a stairway. Okay. So that's why we're using the 76 instead of everything. Stairways are usually considered part of the main structure.

Okay. I have through the chair, I have a question for staff. I noticed that there's a red wall in the back and it goes all the way back almost to the property line that was part of an original permit. That particular I've never seen that before. Um encroaches all the way across over the top of the pool and it goes right to the edge of the property line. Yeah, that was original to the home. That that was it was a quite interesting is is quite interesting architecturally speaking. Yes. Home I think. Um, I think probably the applicant can explain a little more about the origins of the home, but yes, that was designed like that to be

that was an original design. I've never seen it go so close to the back of the property line. Yes. Okay. No, just and it's large. No, it's huge. It's very It's very prominent. I saw it. I saw it. And I question the applicant did not submit any uh any plans of the um proposed uh variance. I mean, I don't see it. We have a plan. Um, let me see.

Yes, we there should be a plan on the on the survey. At least it was roughly drawn on the survey. And then there's also a um elevation and um a description of the balcony railing and the whole balcony that should be attached in the in the packets.

Is there a door that goes to that balcony on the second floor? My understanding is yes, cuz I don't see one in the picture. It's hard to see. So So the drawings that you have are um not complete elevations. Um the applicant was requested to submit complete elevations of the facade as in how this meets uh but their architect couldn't produce it. So this is what we have. But these are obviously only shop drawings for the actual stairs and do do not contain how this structure interacts with the main structure.

So this is a wraparound per se. It's an L-shaped the the the It's a circular stair. No, no, no. I'm talking about the the platform, the balcony, right? Was it was an existing balcony and then they changed it or No, this was this is a new balcony that they added to the second floor of and I believe that there was a window that was turned into a door ah in order to be able to access this. But does this I think we can ask that of the applicant because now I'm just repeating what I've heard. So So the top of the platform goes all the way to the end of the house.

Yes. What is this? Do the board members have any other questions for the town or do you want me to bring up the applicant? Mr. Chair,

any other questions for the town? No. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We can now hear from the applicant. Sir, if you can state your name and address for the record. Marco Alonso, the owner of 16581 Northwest 84 Avenue. He's going to speak on Hi. Um, good afternoon members of the board. My name is Rafael Faro. He is my brother-in-law, married to my sister, Baba Rafo, and we need your address. Oh, my address is 12211 Southwest 93rd Street, Miami, Florida 33186. Thank you. So your position bring the microphone closer to you. You're welcome.

Just bring the microphone closer to you. Are you speaking for him or Yes, I'm speaking for him right now.

Okay. Well, um members of the board, we're here obviously to ask for these variances. Um the addition of a spiral staircase, which primarily is going to be used to access the pool deck from the master bedroom. Um secondary use would be emergency for emergency purposes. Um uh basically it's um like you already know we already have a structure to within 5 ft of the rear of the um property in question. And um we're just asking for a little bit of space to put in the um spiral staircase, which by the way is aesthetically nice as you can see. And um basically that's what that that is our request. Now I heard you um question uh wrapping around uh the building. It does have an existing balcony with a sliding glass door with a sixft sliding glass door. If um the permit is approved, our intentions after further analysis is to maybe add to that existing balcony maybe a sliding glass door that faces the rear of the building. But I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself right now.

So in other words, you the the staircase was built without permit without a permit. Well, without any kind of plans to the town. No. Yeah, we do have plans. We submitted it to the town. I'm sure you have a copy after after it was done. Yes. After it was done. Well, it wasn't done. It was stopped. We stopped um the building process. Mhm. But there was an existing um there is an existing actually balcony slab which originally had an aluminum rail

through the through the chair. Okay. Just just um so the house was designed just so that I mean using it as a fire escape. The house was already designed with an interior staircase and it's a second floor. So the town would have not given you the probably not permitted as a fire escape uh because the house is already designed as a it's a two-story home. So it doesn't require an exit from the second floor. Okay. So, retired firefighter, I can tell you that I'm listening that that that staircase um right would would not be considered a fire exit anyway. Okay. Well, the primary use

I understand the access to the pool deck. I just want to Okay, I understand. I understand. I understand. Was was this window that's in this picture was that window originally there? Can I step up? Mr. Attorney, Mr. Okay. Oh, yes. Yes, sir. That window was there. Sorry, couldn't see. So, so just to get this right, I'm looking at the plans, right? You have an existing uh slab and then you attached another concrete slab or did you attached a metal a metal floor and then kept wrapping it around towards the stairs?

Well, I have not attached a metal floor yet. It's only the beams are the only thing that's put up. But that's where where to make a Lshaped sir to the stairs a wrap. Yes sir. Now I got to stand like this right Juliet have a purpose. So, so there's a there there when the house was originally built or at least there was a balcony in between the red wall and the houseing the red wall with a sliding door where you step in and sir, if you could speak into the mic. Yeah. Okay. I'll say I'm in my in my bedroom, right?

There's a sliding door facing the red wall. When you open it, you step out into a little Romeo and Juliet balcony that two people can't fit. Right. Okay. So, there's like no real purpose for that balcony there. My idea was to wrap it around so I could actually have a balcony to sit on facing my pool. Now, the idea of the staircase, yeah, aesthetically to look nicer, right? Can Can I ask you why you didn't just put the stairs at the very end of that wall instead of bringing it all the way towards your neighbor's home? at the end of the red wall or at the end of

No, the end of the property. Okay. So, you had the end of the you had the end you had your balcony that was already there, right? And you're saying that a balcony was a two-ft balcony. Romeo and Juliet meaning a semi- round balcony. Okay. And then you ex you why didn't you just extend it to the end of the of the of the wall of the the primary home and wrap it around? That probably could have gotten approved through the town. Okay. The reason why that wasn't done is because then the staircase would not meet code cuz it would not fit between the red wall and the house itself. That c that diameter would not fit in there. If we were to put it smaller, it would not meet code. The stairs, the risers would not meet code.

Any other questions from the any members. So it is right now that staircase then is not attach it's like I guess the staircase is there now and there's some beams there. Yes. It's exactly the way you guys have it in your your picture right now depicting right has exactly stayed that way. But it doesn't go all the way to the existing balcony net yet.

Just a beam. Just a beam. Just a beam. Does and this is more a question for staff. Is there any requirement? So if there was no staircase, the balcony extension would be okay or would that also need a variance? So the balcony uh gets five feet uh as an allowable encroachment because it is one of the contemplated exceptions for encroachments onto rear yards and sideyards. So

so they get the 5t right. So my understanding then is if there would not be a staircase it would be the wraparound balcony would be approvable. They would not be here. They would not be standing in front of you for for the balcony. They just have to pull approval. Correct. That's the staircase. Any other questions?

Have you considered doing what the town allows? Well, the primary purpose was, yes, obviously the balcony we knew it was allowed because it's exactly at 5T, but the primary purpose was to have access to the pool deck. We know that the staircase is what's in question right now. We didn't think when we started this that it was going to be an issue. We thought the setbacks to the side of the house was five originally and we didn't think we would have a problem with the setbacks to the rear considering we have that red wall which is over 20 ft high and 5 ft from the property line in the rear.

Right. But the the the red wall is not out of code. The the the house was No. Yes. Yes. Correct. The house was correct. The house was built that way and you purchased the property with that. Correct. And we understand that two wrongs don't make a right. No, no, no, no. I'm just want to make sure that we we have that clear. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Through the chair. Do you have any letters from any of the adjoining property? Any letters? No. I mean, all my neighbors say yes, except for the one that made the complaint was to my right. But do you have any letters? Oh, no. I don't have them. I mean, you don't have any letters from anybody? Okay.

I mean, I have my neighbor to my left has a balcony overlooking my property. Um, the complaint was that the staircase with the balcony was going to be an invasion of their privacy looking into their yard. But my other neighbor listen to my yard all the time. No, no, I read that part. I'm just curious if you had Oh, no. I mean, I can bring I can bring them in. They're more than welcome. All my surrounding neighbors say yes, except for the one on the right that made the complaint. You needed to bring it here today. Oh, okay. And you needed to bring 10 copies of that so we would have it. That would have been good if you don't have it. That was the question because I saw this.

Right. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Any other questions? One more question to to staff. So again, just just to clarify, the balcony could go on the wraparound with the permit up to where it it's at now before the stairs. Correct. Could it go all the way to the end of the of the end of the the house? Yes. And he can even encroach a little bit on the sideyard. Not five feet onto the sideyard, but yeah. Still um allowing him to overlook the prop the next door next door property. Correct.

Okay. Is this I'm assuming this one is also in Royal Oak. So, this would still have the same issue. No, this is across the street. This is not a royal look. We still have our HOA thing. You have an You do have an HOA thing. Yeah, this is this is in Royal Oaks. This this house was designed back in the days when Mr. Lavell was still in control of the HOA and it's a an ultra modern house. This is this used to be Tishel's house. Tel designed this house back in 1988. Ters Martinez, the architect. He's done a lot of things for the town. He moved about four years ago. This was his house

when no modern houses were allowed to be built in Royal Oaks. Lavell made an exception and he allowed Ters. So he fought it graduating from Making sure that he wanted a Miami vice house. So yes. Well, I mean I thought the staircase would look nice. Tears TO is very respected in the town. what he what he did what he did for the town of Miami Lakes with the youth center is something that we we the town uh it was priceless very happy with yeah he he really did a fantastic job and and saved the town hundreds of thousands of dollars there yes he did

any before I I just and I'm just throwing something up in the there. So, there's two variances here. One for the side and one for the back. If perhaps the staircase in the beams are still, can that still be moved so that at least you don't have to have the side set back? You mean to move the spiral staircase within the wall of the house towards the red wall?

Okay. Well, our intentions are to put a sliding glass door in that wall in question and that would not leave any room. Once we do that because the stairs itself over maybe six feet wide in diameter of the staircase. If I'm to do that, it's left with just a corner almost just the corner of the house. I don't I don't know what I can't really tell the dimensions here of anything. So, if you move it to the north, do you want the sliding glass door or the stair? Well, we were hoping they get both. Well, my question to you is, do you want the sliding glass door or the stair? I would rather have the stairs.

That's my question to you. Thank you. uh through the chair, Robert, that uh there's a sidewall that I don't know how and it's there because I I I know the house and and the sidewall kind of uh doesn't let you see the the staircase so much from the from the front from the outside. Oh yeah. If you're standing, if you're standing in front of the house and you can't see the stairs, blocks the view. There is no way unless you They have a wreck now that are there.

No, no, but even before that, even before that, the way it's positioned, you literally need to go in through the side of the house in order to see it. Now, obviously, probably would have never been known that I would have put it there. You guys would have never seen No, I saw the stair today from the street. I was there. Oh, well, right. I went after we were informed. Huh? After you guys were informed, right? Well, but yeah, I get the paperwork and I drive out and I see what it is. It's not If you don't know it's there, you can see some sections of it. A little bit. Right. Right. If I was driving by, I wouldn't know it was there. But if I had paperwork to go see it, obviously stand there and see. Absolutely. Yes. If you take the time to look, yes. Yes, you can see it.

If you're walking, you would see it, but driving by, you don't see Well, actually the side of the house, I don't know if you noticed there on the um survey, it's got a window which protrudes out towards the um to this point. Yes, you do see a little bit of Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yeah, you see a little bit of Yeah, a section of it. I I have one more question. So, the the previous balcony that was there, did it have a door exit? There's a sliding door. There's a sliding door already. It's a sliding door and a little balcony that goes Right. But there was a there's an existing door already there. Yes. Yes, there is. Okay. So, we we go back to the question.

The stairs or the the second sliding door. You already have one. So, you already have a means to get into that balcony. Yes, there's a means to get to the balcony. There is through the to the chair. Is it okay to ask him to approach a second so he can point out where that sliding glass door is? Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's fine. Can you point it out right here where that sliding glass door? I think It's probably where it says 10 ft or where it says.

Oh, so it's over here in the back. Sorry. Thank you. That's what I wanted to know. So, the sliding glass door is here.

Yeah, it does. The red wall goes across the pool, right? Yes. Over the pool. It's pretty cool, actually. You guys are more than welcome to But but whose red wall is that? Is that your wall? The what? The red wall is yours. Yes, it is. Is it attached to any building? Is it just attached to the pool? It goes through the whole middle of the house. It cuts the pool in half. It's above the pool in half. Sorry. It cuts the whole house. It cuts the whole So the pool is under cuts the house in half. Right. Right. But this that is actual part of the structure of the house. Yes, it is. This is So it's called a statement wall. Statement wall. Yes. It's very It makes it makes a full statement for sure. It's actually very nice. You can look at it from Google or from above.

Yeah. Is there is there any other way to to kind of I guess there's no other place to put that stairwell. There is no other place to put that stairwell. Does not fit between the red wall and the existing house structure. Well, they could move it closer to the pool this way. Yeah. You could you could you could always do the fireman pole into the pool because you don't think about a slide. You could do a slide, you know, into the pool, you know, you could do that, too.

Do the chair. Do we have any more questions for the applicant?

No more questions. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll uh close the for member discussion. Yeah, I was actually looking at it through the chair here that it's a five five foot walkway. They could almost do a straight stair down more towards the middle. Yeah, they came out. straight down. There's not there's only 5T between the pool and the house. It's really difficult that spot

to the chair. Are you ready to close this? Yeah, it's close. All right. Can we ask the staff some questions? Yeah. Uh, Miss Alonso, so was the staff had any recommendations other than denial, I understand, but was there any structural concerns, any any You guys have basically gone through the entire conversation we had at the time of the application. Can we move it here? Can we put it there? Can we squeeze it this way or can we squeeze it that way? That's you've you've gone through the entire array of our conversation at the time, word for word. So which at that time it was not acceptable to them. Same. Yeah.

It's not denial from the top. Prove this administratively because it's beyond No, obviously not. No, you can't.

Does anybody want to make a motion? I'll make a motion to um agree with the town, deny the uh the petition as it stands. Um I'll second the motion for discussion.

Uh so to the chair for discussion. Um, I I just I mean I see what what we're saying about the stairs and I understand the neighbor's concern. Um, regardless of the neighbor's concern or not, that balcony could be made legal and brought to code. Correct. The balcony would be allowed. Yeah, the balcony would be allowed. It's a canal lever balcony. Yes. Right. As long as they have an engineer that can attest that it would not fall, right? Like as long as it meets they have they have they have engineering drawings, correct? So So so so the balcony is an allowable encroachment into the rear yard,

right? And and they get five feet for it, which is what the And how about the side? Not on the side. The side is zero. Zero. Yeah. The size you get the the same encroachment as the roof. So it's like I think it's 18 in. So just for but the staircase now is only encroaching.

But the stair is not allow an allowable encroach. No, no, no. I get that. But what I'm saying is in terms of visibility for the neighbor, the sidewalk is I mean the sidewalk the staircase is what like at the biggest radius protruding maybe the stair 6'8 set back from the property line from the neighbor's property line is 6 feet 8 in away from the neighbor. Right. So it's not even a foot. 6' 8 in. But there's a Right. But it's not encroaching not even a foot. No, it's not encroaching anything at all in the setbacks. The stair is not. It's 6' 8 in.

Right. So this the the balcony could actually be further on than this because if you're saying it could go 18 ft. It's a foot and a half from the 7 and 1/2 which basically means you would only have six feet right be between the end of a legal balcony and the side neighbor. So the staircase actually brings them further away from the neighbor. I am not understanding what you're saying.

Okay. My understanding was that the balcony can encroach on the side setback about the roof overhang 18 in. If it ex if it let's assume there was only 7 and 12 ft there. If it's 18 inches that the balcony can extrude it, then the end of the balcony would be six feet from the from the from the neighbor. Yes. 6 feet 8 in. No, no. If there was a balcony, there was a balcony. Oh, no. The balcony the balcony was the wall was 9 ft 9 ft 6 in. He's talking about this. I'm looking. He's talking about this. Oh, because No, wait. It's 9T.

It's 9 ft n It's not seven and a half. No, no, it's 9 ft. 96. So the side the side set back. Okay, I get it. So you could go two feet into the side be 7 foot 7 foot instead of the 68 that this one. So this the staircase does actually extend a little bit further right on on the correct. So he they could actually make that balcony a little shorter and there's an area there it looks like 6'7 from the edge of the pool to the edge of the balcony. So they moved back two feet and left a 5 foot 4 foot seven walking area there past the pool. It would make them almost 7 ft away from the

right because that's what that was the other thing was to move the staircase a little bit closer to the pool but I don't know how close he can. You don't have a lot of space. You don't have a lot to minimize the encroachment towards the side is what I was trying to figure out. But remember, we have a denial corner of the pool. No, I know. I know. I get that. I can withdraw. I can withdraw the denial. No, no, you have to. No, there's a first and a second. No, no, no. I can withdraw the denial. We have a way to go. We need a motion to discuss. We're discussing. We can make an amendment. Yeah, we can make an amendment. I amend the motion, but we don't know. Just

withdraw it. to make a point from from the start from the start when they they built this house back in the days and still the setbacks is seven 7 feet 6 in from the side right when you see that sidewall is a 52 I don't know how that got approved unless went for a variance or they just overlooked that at zoning back in those days and uh and if you see the the staircase actually is in line with a 52. So the staircase right now is about 5'2 in from the neighbor's house

through the chair. You with uh Mr. Chair, you withdrew your motion. Yes. And now you your We need a motion to continue. We need a motion. I'll make a motion to continue the discussion. I mean even the house at the beginning is not seven and a half motion. What is it? There's probably the discussion. I withdrew the first motion. So, right. The second motion was was seconded to continue discussion. Yes. Pretty sure if we go again, we will have to go back in this house was built in 889 Miami Day County Records in microfilm. Probably he he probably went for a variance on that side setback because even in the front there's only has 6 and 1/2 ft.

Mhm. And if you look in the back, you're supposed to have a 25 foot set back and it says 24.5. So you're missing 6 inches, too. Well, no, but but he he has a a CMU wall in the back. But sometimes uh I remember a case back in the days with the county that they actually made us go through a variance. We were still not a town for about 2 in on a gazebo, not complying with the 5 foot setback.

Good to know. I don't see a big problem with the site. Now the question is does it bother us a lot that they don't comply with the 25 25 ft setback in the rear and they won't be able to. Does that really matter from the neighbors? Uh I've seen worst.

Miss Alanso, do you know if the um how far from from the actual balcony structure the stairs would have would have protruded away? So the balcony is 4T 5T and the stairs are they even along the path? Very good question that I have asked myself. I believe that the width of the stairs is a little wider than the five feet that the balcony uh goes out. I think the total width of the stairs is six and change. Um if you look at this one floor plan on page 28, you have the SD3.

Yeah, the balcony is 5 foot long. Yeah, the balcony is five. I think the staircase is 72 in showing the balcony. It's about a foot. It's about another foot or maybe foot and a half more. And that's by code. No, that's code. That's code. Yeah, cuz you want you want at least 36 in. You need 36 in. Yeah. So, it has to be 72 in wide.

Well, I mean, it it has to be look at, you know, look at the rad. You know, the stair starts here. This is 5T. Yep. So, so if we can't move it to the center or narrow the the steps. What do we got? It's just a Well, you could you could move it further in.

The stairs cannot be in and cannot be in an error because that that that's a minimum minimum code and you have the pool almost right there. It's it's you know it's move it closer to the pool. Are you able to move it closer to the pool? That's the question. I don't know. Should be at least five feet away from the pool. And from what I can see by you know by by it's it's it is very close to the pool right now. Yeah. Because

6 foot 70 to to where if this is done to scale then I probably where it's at now. It's not going to be probably 4 feet 4 and a half on the pool. Where it's at now.

So there's really no way to no way to go. It's either leave the basically the decision is have to be leave the staircase where it's at and encroaching or no staircase and they could still do the balcony and the neighbors still will have potentially a very similar situation because the balcony I mean honestly the balcony now you could actually stand there. I doubt anybody's going to stand in a staircase. Right. Right. But right but that was that's my that was my whole point in in in the questioning of of the balcony. the if if they Can we close it here? No. If they if they legalize the balcony, you still have the same overview and it's perfectly legal to code.

Yeah. The only thing we're really discussing is the stairwell, right? Well, then eliminate the stairs as as the motion of Mr. Cra. Yeah. Yeah. Look at the neighbor the other way. Yeah. No, but I'm just saying you're still going to get it doesn't make a difference. the issue with the neighbor which I guess is at least to me is a concern because we're trying to balance right but it the the neighbor's issue unfortunately becomes irrelevant. Yep. When with or without the stairs or without the stairs that's what I'm just wrong there through the chair. If you read the neighbor's statement

totally at some point he's he says if it stays he would understand. If you totally read No. Yeah. I saw it. You totally read it. And there's He's not He's not happy that they can look into his pool area because you can see the pool. You can look and his pool is very attached to this area. Well, that that's his pool. No, no. And and I'm looking at the area the way it's designed. His pool is very close to this property. Yeah. The neighbor basically says that like uh now how often and who would want to be at that balcony looking at somebody else in the pool? Yeah. is a little bit, you know, it's a little bit

Yeah, but the house is is a two-story house. I mean, if you're if you're, you know, in the window inside your house, you're going to be just like being in the bathroom. So, that that point is is I just wanted to make the point that yeah, he's unhappy, but he's understanding also. And and and he does mention that we can and I imagine we can u there's already you already said that there's a lot of vegetation between one and the other. I guess I noticed add that as a condition that would have been planted. Yeah, because I I don't know what is our code for height of fences even with trees. Six feet. I think it's six plus two feet of vegetation. Eight eight.

Right. So I don't think we could approve and say that you have to do 10 feet of vegetation because that would be against the code. The records don't don't count as a right. No, that would be for bushes, not for regular not for trees. Trees can be as 40 feet. Right. Right. Right. So, it's fences or bushes that behave like a fence. That's where you have the 8. Yeah. The hedge can't be more than 8 ft. It's a obviously we know that there's other ones out there. Clarify. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. You you can find hedges of 10 foot high six foot 10 foot. Am I right? Yeah. Oh, no. No. But what I'm saying, you you cannot plant them.

Oh, no. No. How about if we make uh uh through the sheriff if we and and satisfy the neighbor somehow if we ask them to go ahead and do some hedges at eight on their side eight 9 ft. The fence is about six feet. You can go with landscaping another two feet. Okay. Nine. And at least with that u it's not going to be a lot. It's not going to be much because I mean you they're still going to go up and down the staircase and they still going to have the balcony like Nelson says the balcony is irrelevant. They can still build it.

And and the issue is the staircase. I personally don't have a problem with this staircase is is nice. It's nice design. It's aluminum. It goes with the design of the house. is not something that you're doing out of taste or is there just for no reason whatsoever and it's nice to have your room your master bedroom in the second floor and come down to the pool if you wish especially in this design you know it's kind of I honestly don't see a big problem with that and uh perhaps on our motion we can go ahead and ask them to do some green area to separate and buffer the area

and maybe not just a hedge which obviously would only be about the B8 ft, but maybe a strategically placed Yes, a strategically placed palm tree of some sort that might create a little more bushiness at the height of the of the nice landscape area in the back that blends with the design, you know. I mean, yeah. Well, that is what goes with the area. That is what the neighborh suggest. That's exactly what the approval. Yeah. Put it a condition installation of dense evergreen screening or or barriers in it. Mhm. Yeah. But it has to be green. Yeah. Green. Correct. Yeah. What do you think? That's your motion. I'll second it. I think that will work.

A nice little Sylvester palm right there just with a nice So my motion will be if we can Can we make one now? Yeah. Yes, you may. Yes, we can make a motion. So, my motion will be to allow them to keep the uh the staircase and uh do some nice green area and landscaping like Susan uh suggested maybe some palm trees and make it private. Make it more private and it goes with the design of the house. And with that, I'll I will go ahead and and approve this item. But those palm trees um what would be your motion as to the height of those uh uh palm trees at planting? At planting I would say that at least six to eight feet.

Yeah. Yeah. So that they're nice the the nice mature mature what they call nice mature ones. Yeah. So the motion will be uh adding the palm trees no less than 8 ft and uh make a little bit of the area more landscapable to have some privacy between the two houses. Okay. The the the uh the trees would be um 6 to 8 foot high. How how far on center to center? You know, as long as you put one strategically where the stairway is? Yeah. To cover the staircase. the Yeah. to actually cover the stairway. Right. Correct. Yeah. To shield things. Yeah. With a couple two or three palm trees in that area is more than enough.

You don't really want palm trees. You don't really want them any closer than maybe seven 10 ft of center. Yeah. Because you don't really want them to crowd each other either. So, okay. Yeah. So, between six and eight feet and no more no less than 10 feet on center. Between 10. Yeah. 10. So, that will be the motion on the floor. I'll second that motion. Ready to call the roll. Ready to call the roll. Okay. Motion or the motion from board member Cruz, seconded by board member Julia. Board member Leonio. Yes. Board member Cruz.

Yes. Board member Delasier. Yes. Board member Julia. Yes. Vice Chair Rodriguez. Yes. And Chair Senra. Yes. We'll make it unanimous. The motion passes. No, that's Please be good with your neighbor. Yeah. No, please. Please be good with your neighbor. No. And what Mr. Deasierra brought up and it says so in the letter, that's what he asked. you know, if it's it's going to stay the way, make sure that it's that we have the privacy. So, just make sure of that,

right? And and he also suggested maybe putting some um you know, like a plastic guard around the stairs so that which makes no sense. I understood so that you can't see as you're walking towards that. You'd only see right up to the edge. But to me, I rather I rather have it open. So if somebody's staring at me that they're not encroaching down or anything like that, I'd rather be able to see them. It makes that's that's you know, that was the neighbor's recommendation. I'm like, "No, not for me." That's something to pick up mold trees or whatever. The palm trees are better.

Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Mr. Chair. for our third item of the evening and our final. Yes.

All right. Perfect. This item is reszoning of GU to RU1, an ordinance of the town of Miami Lakes, Florida. Miami, Florida, amending the official zoning map to res re reszone a 7.7 acres located on the east side of Northwest 74th Avenue between 143rd Street and Northwest 145th Street as more particularly described at exhibit A from GU general use to the RU1 single family residential district providing for incorporation of recital providing findings providing for direction to the administrative official providing for repeal of laws and conflict providing for severability, providing for exclusion from code, and providing for an effective date.

Through the chair, I'd like to ask a question. Is this going to require that they have sewer and everything brought to them by What a good question. Huh? Not at this time, but actually, hold on. Hold. We have a little feedback. Now, this is the uh this is the area that nobody knows that belongs to Miami Lakes. That is Yeah. And and the boondocks there. There's like 15 homes there. There's there's Yeah, there's eight eight homes and it's uh Yeah, I think there's 10 lots.

All right. Bicycle back and they're the acorage. My best friend, my best friend from high school lives there forever. The anchorage is where the FBL has the Eastman back there. By the way, it's called Wellness Way. Wellness. Yeah. 72nd Avenue. Somebody named it Wellness Way. You have all the urgent care. So, ask to the sewer. This, right? My question is that we're going to approve this for residential, but they're not going to be able to do septic tanks in the residential air because there won't be enough space. So, they will. Is this contingent on them bringing water and sewer. No, at this point we're only reszoning.

There is no permits. There is there is some applicants that are seeking permits. This is not approving any building permits. This is just reszoning the area so that we may begin to regulate how it may be developed in the future. Now, as to whether or not sewer systems are required or allowed, that's a separate conversation that will be had in a separate occasion. And at this point, the only thing we're contemplating is reszoning and only reszoning again so that we may begin to regulate the area in a in a in a reasonable manner. Right. Will they be able to pull a permit once it's resone? Not necessarily. That's not a good answer.

So, let me give give a give a full answer on I think Susanna went to law school. I'm convinced she went to law school, too. She just doesn't want to tell us. So, No, she's been around long enough to uh

the the area is that that that you're looking at right now and and um we're we're there's still a lot more work that needs to go into this. So, it may not be go for council for a little bit. Uh and that's a separate conversation I need to have with staff on on some things that I've I've kind of discovered in the last week. But this area is really was considered general use, which is an interim zoning by the county. Right. Most of the properties that are located in here uh do not were not formally platted ever. This is an area that the the Grahams never uh for whatever reason and we've asked them never purchased, never platted. Uh so the majority of the homes that actually have they never owned they never owned right. They never owned it. So so the majority of the properties that are there right now,000 acres

have their homes built through a waiver of plat process. Miami date county has exclusive jurisdiction when it comes to planning and and they have this process which is completely a legal process by which you know they instead of doing a formal plan process they do a waiver plat process they create the meets and balance and they create what are the requirements uh for for the building of of properties on this area. So there are a series of homes uh that were built uh through that waiver of plat process. Uh none of the homes that exist now are uh the product of any uh building permit uh that the town of Miami Lakes in other words none of these homes uh are before two occurred after 2000. They're all predate the the town of Miami Lakes. Um the idea with

Miami date county

yes they predate Miami Lakes. So they're all done through Miami date county. So the the idea with with the zoning and again this is something where you're you're looking at it and and you're wearing your hat as the local planning agency is to uh give it what is the predominant uh zoning in the area. The predominant zoning in the area is RU1. The way that our comp plan has it uh provided provides for it right now is as low density residential. uh lowdensity residential includes town homes includes different designations but the predominant one in the area is uh RU1 uh because closest areas that are around Sable Drive. Uh so that's what the characteristic we we'd like to give it and then u create a plan to bring it up to that level of service of of an RU1 area.

Didn't we didn't we have uh some kind of an issue with uh somebody that owned uh property in that area? We we do, but there's not only one applicant. There there's a couple of at this point that are looking towards uh a path of being able to uh have have a building permit. Uh a building permit can be obtained in that area. Uh but it is through a separate process than the other zoned areas. So through the board, this is to reszone it but not plat it. Platting is a completely different process. So platting would be question Yeah. planning would have to take in order to pull a permit has to be platted. Not necessarily. Well, how do you the waiver of

through the waiver of plat?

So, the county has original jurisdiction on all platting. Uh and through a waiver of plat process, you can uh obtain uh a permit. You can obtain a site plan. There's other uh commercial areas here in the town that have gone through a waiver of plat. The most recent one that went through a waiver plat was was a grand property uh that that requested one. So, it it is common. It's been more common here in the in the in Miami Lakes through commercial areas. Uh and I'm not sure if maybe industrial as well perhaps than than residential. Residential it's been a little bit been been a little different. Uh but but it is it is something that's seen common in in other areas of Miami date county. Uh and once it's platted through Miami date county through a waiver of plat then we can't impose a uh the we can't impose a for the person to have to go through the replat process again. It's already set

through the chair and he's very familiar with this under RU1 this would be 7500 many minimum square foot lots correct correct and right now um if there were there are some parcels there that obviously have more than that um all of the parcels right now are larger than that yeah they could subdivide uh correct but That would require my understanding currently in Miami date county property appraisers office if I go there trying to divide and get uh different folio numbers they are now requiring zoning department of the municipality to agree that is correct

and that would go through a planning process if they were to subdivide and the process at Miami Lakes would require what that they have to do the platting correct it would at that point you're you're you're asking for to to build on a property that's has a waiver of plat. You're asking for a division. So then that would require replplatting which now under the new uh statute is done administratively. The platting process. Yeah. Uh this year Florida statute changed uh and now Yeah. So now all this year effective now October I think October 1st uh all planning has to be done administratively. It cannot be done quasa judicially. And that that applies to the whole state of Florida.

Yep. because I just I was just in front of Southwest Ranches on a plat. So now you know I'll I'll I can give you the statute after and I still have to go to Broward now. So Broward it would be administrative is no longer it's it's applies to all local governments. Okay. Um um through the chair I have a question. So I know most of these homes are at least an acre. Correct. Most of these lots are Yeah, they're all rather large. Yes, they're mostly large lots. There is some very unusual subdivisions going on.

There's one that may or may not have a property line through the main structure. There's there's there again the the fact that this was not done through the regular pathway of what a development of a single family area would have gone is visible throughout the district. That's why they don't have streets. That's why they don't have uh sewer systems. That's why the the every lot is a different size and they're looking every other which way. Some of them have two. Do they have So honestly, I'm I'm looking at rightways are dedicated partially. Some other

So there's three there's two lots that are two or three lots that are over an acre. All the other ones are about 17,000 square feet. I just So I mean I I've been out there and and and I I I remember as a councilman getting calls from one of the neighbors on Sable that one of these uh homes was renting their yard for parties. Um and so you know uh it became a mess and you know was I remember that.

Yeah. So you understand. And then um we were trying to get the uh the over side of the FPNL to use it as a boat lot and then our current city manager, our town manager was the uh architect of fighting against that. Um so uh but but you know the the people's will won. He brought 110 neighbors and you know they're the ones that directly impacted it. Didn't impact me, it impacted them. So you you have to go with with what they need. My question and my concern here is it it I mean I I know it's got a wild wild west type situation is what I've heard people refer to it as before because they they've done whatever they wanted to do for all these years. Um, but is it going to keep that? I mean, I what what I don't want is to destroy those uh when we do this to to for one person to buy a lot and say, "All right, I'm going to build uh you know, three town houses or a quadruplex."

So, the idea with the res low density, right? The idea it is considered low density on the comp plan. So, that's that's one thing. Now, to to reszone it as residential would be consistent with that. Um and and what it's doing is is making it really what is the pervasive uh zoning in the area which is really RU1 and giving it that designation that is the uh lowest density let's call it that uh uh zoning that our code offers. Uh under also new Florida statute uh we can't create a zoning code that is more restrictive than what exists right now uh for a period of about five years. So it's SP 180.

So even if even if the town wanted to right once you zone this RU1 and even if the town wanted to um one of these homeowners can say, you know what, I'm going to build a quadruplex or a duplex. They'd have to come in with a reszoning application. Right. Right. I understand. But it meets the RU1 criteria, doesn't it? No, it does not. No, it does not. No duplexes. No, it would have to be a single family. Single family home. Single family. Ru1 is single family on on on a 7,500 foot.

Right. So So it Okay. Because I because you said um I thought you said low density. So the comprehensive plan, the flume, the future land use map, the designation in the future land use map. Remember when we first when you all got first on the on the board and I showed you the maps? Yeah. The the map that we want to be when we grow up has this designated as um low density low density residential which spans the the the gamut from RU1 to RM13 which is multif family with 13 units to the acre. Right. We can choose zoning within those.

Right. So at the at the council and the planning board's discretion, right? So, I would I would suggest to the council to, you know, keep it a minimum RU1 and then um also, you know, I mean, if if I I just don't want and I know I've spoken to a couple of the homeowners here that I I've known for many many many years and they don't want to lose that country style, you know, environment and and all of a sudden have, you know, a large project built because you can I mean, you can build homes right now. You can build homes, right? But no, I know right now right now an an a project could walk in tomorrow and we would have to take their application and consider it.

Yep. For all the way to RM3. So, which is 13 units to the acre, right? And we would have to consider it as an application. Yep. Again, whether or not they could get a permit based on the fact that there's no service in the area is a different story. Zoning it down. Well, you're not really zoning it down because we have to be careful with that. Yes, we're not zoning it down. We're not we're not zoning it down at all. And if you read the actual context of of what the code provides on GU, if somebody were to come in right now and want to do the ARM 13, could you consider it? Yes. But the planner would have to say and and justify that that zoning is a pervasive zoning in the area and it's not the pervasive zoning in the area is RU1 and and the

and I would have to justify that we meet level of service for such an intense use. So I would have to go through the exact same process that we do for an application and go consider whether there's water uh adequate water facilities, adequate roads, adequate everything and write a big long report that says everything. My question and concerns have been answered. All right. And the other issue is obviously if someone that has a a big lot with one folio, you could only build one single family home there until Correct. It doesn't if it's 40,000 ft, you could only build one house. Correct. If you want to build two houses, you got to divide that whole unit and that's a whole different process. That would be through a plat process. Correct. So,

or they would have to come in as a planned unit development. So, like like as a as a as a development where we're going to have so many houses and they may be a condominium association of some sort, but it's still going to be single family. So, yes, it would still have the 75 and you'd have to the lot would have to be able to be split 7,500 the minimum. Correct. Yeah. So, yeah. What what we I don't think we can is say we want the lots there to have a minimum of 15,000 square feet and do EUM like they do in the county. You cannot. Right. We would have to create a new Actually, the county can't do it either right now. No. Right. Because of where it's at now. Yeah. But that's that was my that would be the ideal. That was my intent. I know that's my intent to go there. But

there's a couple of laws. Obviously the attorney the attorney throws out these laws and you know you got to go by there's a statute though I mean unfortunately but listen you got to abide by the law and I completely agree I just you know I just know that they don't want to lose that that feel best be someone buy all of them and turn them into R1 at one point in time I think there was an intent yeah someone tried to buy by somebody to buy them all buy them all out and turn they couldn't get a there was an intent there was an intent a year and a half ago Yeah, through the chair. Question for the attorney. We do have two participants, two residents from that area. Okay. At which point, if any, can they provide public comments?

They can. Yeah, of course. Certainly. I mean, if through the chair, if you wish, it would be appropriate since this is an LPA item to to hear if you if you desire. Sure. Yeah. You guys are ready? Yeah. Okay. Mr. Naji and Panagi, if you can go ahead and unmute yourself. It allow them to speak. Hello. Can you hear us? Yes, we can. Are you able to turn your camera? You're coming out. Yes, the camera is on actually. You should turn it. Oh, this way. There you go. And we can hear you. Go ahead. Welcome to the meeting. Thank you.

Thank you. So, good evening everyone. So, my name is Sufan Naji and this is my uh business partner uh Peter Panay. So, we currently live in 1470 uh 36th Street, Miami 33142 and um we are we are here as the owner of the property located within the vicinity uh and their consideration um and I arise in support of the staff's recommendation to reszone the area entirely to uh RU1. Um so first I just want to point out that the property that we own uh is already have an ordinance that is an RU1 uh not a GU which to generally use. Um and uh as the town have the ordinance on record and that ordinance was the reason why we bought that property and allowed us to own that subdivided piece of land. There were some conditions that the town arrives uh like platting, but our attorney was able to locate uh from the archives that the property was granted a waiver of plat and provided that um it meets the conditions that they mentioned that associated with the IU1 um zoning. So as also included at the at the deed that the waiver of plat and record as well as the dedication of the public road uh was established. So there are some forms of significant infrastructure in place like water line um the atlas u the atlas wire and the families are living there. So they're using the road every day under the corporation of the municipality which is uh shared by the homeowners in the area. um in the vicinity as an RU1. A lot of properties there are considered RU1 from the other side and sharing the same as built um

which is the water line. So, so the residents use of the area is basically dominance by the IU1. So now I understand that some of the residents may oppose to this change because they might feel that the general use zoning gives them more flexibility and the countryside home. Um but they're also worried about potential um assessments. They might not want to be uh regulated or have any sort of restrictions which we respect uh both of us we respect their opinion but development has already reached the critical level here that it's affecting new owners. So to ensure fairness, stability and consistency, it is important that all properties in the neighborhood are treated the same. So we are trying to build that we are not able to pull any permits or do any work. So for nearly like three years now right

two years

two years and um and so the we haven't been able to pull our permit yet. We have spent significant time money legal fees and we tried to just simply enjoy our property rights like the other people are doing right now. But under GU we have been um facing a lot of difficulties. Uh even even though they were some some permits they were issued in the in the area and I do have this um this permits for record if you would like to see them but they were not significant. They were just renovation permits. So the other uh how like the other home owners they're able to use their homes and living in every minute and second enjoying their property rights while new owners are not able to. So, um just wanted to um state the facts here for record and to support the position of uh the RU1 resoning and that this has created a violation of our property rights and by proving the reasoning the town will help ensure that all the neighborhood develops uh an orderly consistent formality while keeping the con the compat the compatibility of the area as well.

Mr. Naji Pinagi if I may there was a bit of a lag difference with it setting the timer if you can go ahead and wrap it up with your public comments for beyond the 3 minutes. Sorry if I took a little while. So for for that reason uh we respectly ask that you know you guys approve the ordinance and move the parcel into the RU1 zoning with all the reasons that we have mentioned and uh we support the staff's recommendation for this matter. Anything you want to say Peter? No that's it. Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. So the the idea for you tonight um is [Music] that was it.

Okay. So uh that was not my music. That was somebody else's. Uh so your job tonight is as a local planning agency of the Talm leaks as the town will be has already considered this in first reading. You're the second bite of the apple. the the final decision is not going to come for for a little bit of time. Uh but it's for you to provide any suggestions uh that you have with regards to uh to this resoning application

and we have to vote on it. You have you so there's three types of actions that as a local planning agency you can do. What you're doing is you're transmitting your recommendation. That's your requirement. uh as per Florida law, you can transmit your require your you can transmit to the council that you you approve it as as you can appro make uh transmit to the council uh your suggested changes. You can say to the council you neither say yes or no you with no no opinion or you can give an opinion to the council not to adopt it. Those are your four things you can do.

Thank you sir. I'll second it. I'll second it. The only thing I would like to is that that they should bring in the services. It's very important to bring in the services.

Yes. So the next step on the entire operation first is to reszone and then we're going to be looking into how we bring the area into the proper level of service so that it may be so that permits may be granted because right now the the challenge we have is that there's no level of service for many areas that we are required by law to to provide services. Uh so granting new permits is very challenging for for the town because we're we find ourselves in violation of level of service. So here's here's my question. Um that wouldn't be by majority of homeowners because there's homeowners that do not No, it's not. Uh it has nothing to do with with the uh the homeowners. It's it's once you It's not a special taxing district. It's not a special taxing district at all. No, no, no. I understand.

Yeah. So it's the reasoning is is an application being put forth by the by the town. But none of that land is public, right? The roads aren't public. No, some of the roads are public. Yes. Some of the roads are public. Some of the roads are under the jurisdiction of of the town. Okay. Yeah. And when they have never been paved and they have never been properly signalized. Yes. Which is something have never been that we're looking at and we're going to get into and I'm just saying it it I I don't I mean I know there's some there's there's one elderly resident there that would be an un a huge amount of burdens to to have sewer and be brought up to our house. The the roads were all transferred to us through the road transfer agreement and that road was included in the some of those roads were included in the RTA. So yeah, that I know. So we're looking at into all that now.

I know. I know. But I'm saying bringing sewer to those homes could be very very very expensive. Yeah, sewer is a different thing. The the code does provide and Durm does still allow for certain homes to have uh septic tanks and and some of those home actually that that do exist there do have septic tank. And they have water already. Yes, they do. They have to meet the square footage. They're not using well water. I'm sorry. Square footage of the lot for the There is at least one home that is using well water. Yeah. Right. But I I believe most of them had had day county water. They they do, right? Yeah. I mean, if they if they went through the if they went through the waiver of plat process, the waiver of plat process in order for them to to comply required them to have essential services which included the the uh taxes,

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The septic tanks, the the road had to in some cases had to be paved for certain areas. um uh there were just a series of of issues that had to be complied with electricity uh storm water you know potable water and those sort of things. Now we don't know again and that's why there may be homes there with wellwater if every single home was actually built you know going through a waiver of plat process that we don't know at all and and there's there's no way there is ways but it would be very expensive for for us to check every single lot the the ones um the few that at least are right now have their applications yes they have the waiver plan the waiver plat similar to a plat requires that certain conditions be met before that's approved

yeah I can see from Google Earth that they have trash cans so they always they're getting serviced by the county. They're getting serviced by the county. Yes. So, and and and any home would be uh they would have to pay some impact fees and all that other stuff to help with some of the some of this costs. Absolutely. They would but the what are we talking about? Any new home or any new homes would have new ones are there. They would have to mitigate the similar to any other development any other development in the city. There there's no waiver on that. There's no waiverss. No. Because it's obviously going to cost money to the It's in order to meet services there. Exactly. In order to to mitigate, you know, and and make sure you meet concurrence, you have to pay those impact fees. Some of them are through the county, some of them are through us, just like any other development that we see.

Exactly. But that wouldn't that wouldn't impact that only impact the homeowner that wants to improve their property or build on the property to build on their property. Correct. Right. The current homeowner, if they decide to do nothing, they're not paying any additional fees, anything like that other than other than what would what would have to come up. Right. Right. Right. But I'm saying Right. I'm I'm talking about current. We'd have to take a look at each each of them and each one will be looked at on one by one basis. Some of them as as as we move forward in that area and and improvements, some of them may become legally non-conforming uh properties on there until they come and and they want to do something or changes to it and then we can I'm sure Durham wants to get in there too. So, I'm sure everybody's want to get in there.

All right. So, I made a motion to u go with the staff recommendation. It's been seconded. Correct. By Julian. By Julian. Ready to call. I wanted to say that they would supply services. Okay. As a suggestion to count. Okay. Can you repeat that, please? That they would supply service. Service. Services. Level of service. Yeah. Level of services. Okay. Calling role on the ordinance. Board member Julia. Yes. Board member Cruz. Yes. Board member Leonio. Yes. Board member Deassierra. Yes. Vice Chair Rodriguez. Yes. And Chair Senra.

Yes. All right. The motion passes. Okay. We're done as a report. Anything else? Does that report from the I do want to report that we will be hearing this uh this item on second reading in October, not in September because there needs to be 30 days advertising. So they that we could only hear it in October. Um I think in your October meeting uh we will be hearing from um the transportation master plan and the vision zero uh master plan that we're working on. So it's going to be very transportation intensive. So come prepared to ask all your transportation questions. So what you're saying is October is a long meeting. bring bring your own.

I the the consultant that is helping us do the transportation master plan and the vision zero is coming in and he already has a very good uh amount of information to put out that is very interesting and and you guys are going to love it and but please bring all your questions because you know I I want you guys to grill him. So come ready come ready. All right, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you, gentlemen.