P&z Board - Regular Meeting

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e e e Mr chair think you can begin the meeting e

uh through the chair I'm going to go ahead and call the role deerra present Julia present excuse me board member Cruz present and Cher leonio pres okay you have Quorum Mr chair I think we can open up now for public comments for anybody who wants to speak on none on on an item that is not before the board tonight so on any of the items that are not before the board that are quasa judicial if you want to make your public comments I think now would be an appropriate time the minutes I make a motion on the minutes to approve the minutes so we'll um Mr chair I think now will be an appropriate time to close public comments uh anybody that's going to be speaking on behalf of um any of the cases please stand and be sworn in okay uh do you swear to tell the truth nothing but the truth so help you God okay thank you go ahead motion I make a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting I second the motion okay uh to approve the minutes uh let's call the rule de yes okay board member Julia yes board member Cruz yes and bo uh chairman

Lono yes okay motion passes to the minutes Mr chair U may I read the U quaza judicial public hearing notice Mr chair may I read the public uh the quasa judicial public notice may I read it into the record yes thank you Mr please be advised IED that the following items on the board's agenda are quasa judicial in nature an opportunity for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and the staff have made their presentation on each item all testimony including public testimony and evidence will be made under oath or affirmation additionally each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination if you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn your testimony will be given its due weight the general public will not be permitted to cross-examine Witnesses but the public May request the board to ask questions of Staff or Witnesses on their behalf persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization any person representing documents to the board should provide the town clerk with a minimum of 10 copies further details of the quasa judicial procedure may be obtained from the town clerk aboard the first matter that we have before you is variance 202 24517 uh this is uh on variance number for applicant Rolando Chino uh the location of the property is 8601 Northwest 1 62nd Street Miami Lakes Florida 33016 and we'll hear first from the uh Town good evening Justin Teraria Planning and

Zoning we are presenting hearing number VH 2024-25 Rolando jino um location 8601 Northwest 162nd Street the applicant is requesting a variance from section 13-1502 to allow a gazebo to have a 10t 6in setback from the side facing the street where 15 ft are required and the second variance is a from section 13-1502 to allow gazebo with a 6'6 in set back from the resident where 10 ft are required the applicant is proposing a 288 ft gazebo on the west side of the rear yard of a single family property per the submitted survey the side setback of the home is 15 ft but the proposed gazebo requires a 10 6 in setback as a result the Gazebo will encroach upon the side setback by 4' 5 in and the residential setback by 3' 6 in thank you through through the chair I have a same question I asked last time I just wanted for the record I believe that the side setback on this property is due to the fact that it's a corner uh lot if it would not have been a corner lot the site setback is not 15 ft is that correct that's correct that's corre yeah uh also at this time and we should have done this earlier if anybody has has had any ex party communication with the applicant uh please uh place your uh Place those on on on the record I have not Ro de I've had no comment no comments

either neither do I so Mr chair I think now we can hear from the applicant we can hear now from the applicant I believe uh you can there's a button on the microphone please state your name and address and everything please yes my address yes your name and address my name is uh excuse me I think the button you have to press the button at the base of the microphone hello there you go state your name and address speaking to the mic thank you boys thank you uh for everybody here my name is Joan cardoso I live in the 3041 Southwest a30 Avenue Miami Floria 33175 he's my father-in-law he's my father and um we coming today for the hearing for this uh permission for constructions the all the detail according with 0.1.2 and um we are want to know if you um approved that project for the property is related to the point eight um baring from section 13523 and think this is a point that we looking for approv by you according with the regulation of the

Miami Lake town I think is on code and permission for this um casivo through the chair has any of this work been done excuse me has any of the work already been done no no it hasn't been done you're going to apply for a permit yes okay thank you it is not after the fact no we request approval first permissions how come we have a survey with the improvements done you need a survey for what the survey just showing where the we have a Serv approve I think so through the ch you do understand that um there's an easement through back there so I mean I don't think you're going to be encroaching on that easement but there's an easement for utility probably around your property can you repeat again huh can you repeat again yeah so typically speaking and I'm pretty sure I'm looking that's what I was trying to look at your utility it's right on 10t right so there's a 10 foot utility easement so you got to be careful when you do that gazebo the way you're planning it around the H from the sidewalk on onto your property you have 10 foot the utility easement yes so I know that in

in your proposal you're respecting that right but I'm assuming that maybe if you doing a column back there you may when you actually do the column and you do the foundation of it you may be encroaching on that ement so you got to make sure yes we do we take you call what is it 811 or 611 I don't remember who you call the edge of the of the East therefore if you have the excuse me through the chair avalino if you can speak into the mic cuz he's not able to hear you uh the U the foundation is probably going to be at two foot by two foot thereabout yes so make sure that um it does not encroach into the Eastman yes of course so you you have to discuss that with the engineer he might have to do um eccentric footing of course okay it will encroach he's going to need an exentric he will yes you will encroach yes through through the chair if it encroaches and they need to go through that easement they will remove your gazebo area that you built of and you'll have to put it back yourself so you understand yes I understand you know ahead of it doesn't happen yes and and that's the the structural engineer will solve that relatively easy but just pointed out to him that uh that it was one of our concern okay as through the chair I have a question uh is there a reason that the gbo needs to be 288 Square F feet

six 12 by 20 yeah according to what I see here is 288 Square ft just for the record so the I don't know if the board is aware they're not in Royal LS but they're close to Royal Oaks right on the frontier on the bottom line Royal Oaks does not allow G to be more than 150 square ft and they know and we do not allow the gas evos to be on the corner lots to be on the front they have to be on the other side those are on the by laws since 8384 they're not in Royal Oaks but then again that's why I asked this a reason that has to be 288 because maybe we can shrink it a little bit and try to comply a little bit more with the setbacks and not only that you guys are going to have an issue now with the 10' 6 in on the side setback because of the eccentric footing that's going to be costly and and it's it's it's got to be designed completely different cuz I know you cannot go inside the Eastman that's that's forbidden you can they will not allow you okay um I I do want to a point of order Mr chair and this is in reference to the comments I think Mr Cruz just made you cannot consider HOA HOA has no no bearing on your decision what regulations that HOA has you are only Bound by what the ordinances even if this case was in doesn't matter it's only the ordinances of the town of Miami so you you cannot take that into consideration so that means that the town can go ahead and allow and approv

plans that when they come in front of the HOA the HOA will deny them and then that's between the HOA and the individual not the town interesting and the same thing with like basketball hoops yeah basketball hoops are allowed in the town of Miami Lakes they're not allowed in Royal Oaks because of the HOA that's an example so one of one of the things that you can and I guess we'll entertain but um you're you're proposing a 12T uh width perhaps if you went to 10 ft you wouldn't have the problem with the um utilities and or maybe less of a problem with the utilities and to do 10 by 238 whatever instead of 12 is and I don't know what the board would approve but I'm just talking out loud so okay because of my my concern since the beginning was that ho when you build that structure I'm not an engineer but I've been around a little while right and I would suspect that you were going to so my question is the L said the um om Crusade like it's permit only 150 no is pering I'm sorry that's just on the B law in Royal luus that that's doesn't pertain to the zoning code in in the in the town of Miami Lakes okay so you don't have to obey to the 150 we'll follow so according with the plan and the constructions and we is permit by the dimension to the to the space is permit to 186 is permit is is the the the distance where we have to The Limited for the for the fence and the feet permit to constructions the 186 is permit we have a space available for Oh by by Town coat you have to have a 15t set back on the side street and between structures you got to have a 10 foot set

back you you're comp with neither of those two that's why you you're asking for the variance okay if we were to shrink like Mr Julia said and perhaps not 12 and 10 now that you have an issue with the utility Eastman and you're going to have an issue with the foundation right then you start cutting down some square footage maybe instead of 10 you will go to a 12 foot setback 12 by 10 no the setb instead of being 15 you will go to 12 mhm actually you're asking for 10 right you need 15 but we we're saying that an option will be bring down the Gazo to 10 ft and then your setback will be 12 instead of uh yeah we you would do a 10 foot wide instead of the rest personally I don't really the other variant that you're asking for is has to do with how close it is to your property to your house it doesn't affect your neighbor in the back my personal opinion is however close you want to put it to your house I don't really care too much is my personal opinion not this necessarily that that's going to be the decision of the board all right um so lengthwise as long as you're not encroaching on the neighbor in the back I'm not as concerned we don't have a problem um and to the site setback I I recognize that you are on a corner lot if this was an interior lot you would only have a 5- foot setback on the side and you would you would be able to build this whole thing um I'm just thinking that perhaps reduce it to the 10 feet primarily because of your potential encroachment on a utility easement and what could happen in the future okay that's just my personal opinion but then I just normally we ask uh the applicant if they're willing to reduce it to let's say what I'm suggesting potentially a 10 foot and so we're just as I'm personally asking if that's something that you would consider

some people would say no I want 12 feet and it is no problem and then it's up to the board to decide whether we'll Grant it or not so that's why I'm just inquiring no if you so what is the best recommendation that you give it to us tonight the best recommendation for my personal opinion is I would be perfectly fine with the 10 foot uh instead of a 12T just so that it gives you the whole thing with the easement and it's a little bit smaller than more with the general area that's my personal opinion but again I'm only one vote you need yes majority okay no but if he if if he if he makes it if he makes it 11 ft okay that will put the the edge of the foundation right on the on the East but my question is when when we figure out the square footage of the of the Gazebo uh does that include the overhang because they they they have big overhangs if if you read the conditions that are stipulated as conditions of approval the overhang can only be 12 in yes and that is part of the conditions of approval no not four for Six and 2 for six no um on one side on one side is four six they have 4 foot six 4 six the the the the overhand shall be a maximum of 12 Ines as required by is uh condition number three okay there's condition number three is saying overhands will only be allowed to be 12 because otherwise they would need a separate variance for that has not been okay I was about to ask about that for doing this

do we have any more questions for the applicant no do you want to close the I public hearing if we don't have any more questions of the applicant we don't have any more questions for the applicant okay so we we're going to close the uh uh public comments okay all right thank you it would be appropriate now if someone wants to make a motion or if anybody from the public wishes to speak on the item now would be the appropriate time so I I'd make a motion to approve the variance uh subject to 12 foot6 inch setback from this side where 15 ft is required that would give do I need to give them one foot or two foot so that make that'll make the width 12T and one foot over yeah what's the setback between the house and and the proposed Gaz this one uh 6' 6 in or 10 is required okay but that's in between his house and yeah set back to the to the [Music] side I would say inad instead of being right on the east line put it a foot back from the east line so do 116 so that will be 116 okay okay so let me revise my motion my motion showing it's showing to be 10 foot five from the from The Edge

according to the survey so you want to have them make it 12' 5 so it would be then the G would be 10 okay it 12 the dimension if you look on if if you look just above where you're looking Mr lill shows it to be 10' 5 in from the property line which is the sidewalk over to the slab up on top there it's right there the SL theed SL the edge of the slab would be the edge of C so if youv wants to move it instead of making it 12T wide make it 10t wide then you make that Dimension 12 fe5 to take the two feet away and right and separate them some set okay that's what I said I'm just I agree trying to interpret Mr Julia saying so my motion would be to approve the variance to allow the Gazebo to have 12 foot 5 in setback from the side street where 15 is required allow for the Gazebo to be uh 6 foot 6 in from the residents were 10 ft with the condition um that is stipulated by staff which is is that the plans will be uh submitted in substantial comp consistency with this no other accessory structures are permitted and all overhangs shall have a maximum of 12 in as required by the code I second that

motion and go ahead and call roll board member Cruz yes board member DEA Sierra yes board member Julia yes and chairman leonio yes okay the motion passes congratulations Mr chair if I may uh read the second item into the record thank you so the next item uh before this board is item uh variance 2025 0033 uh this is for applicant yel Miranda and this is for property located at 14020 Cypress Court Miami Lakes Florida 33014 [Music] yeah it's be to hear from Staff first and then we'll hear from the applicant and then we'll hear from the public good evening Justin Teraria Planning and Zoning this is hearing number VH location 14 14020 Cypress Court the applicant is requesting a variance from section 13-1 1512 to allow an existing 600 ft of pool deck that encroaches 10 ft past the tiline to extend to ex expand by 1 6 in towards the water the second variance is a

variance from section 133-152 to extend the pool deck by 9 ft 9 in on the North and by 7t 9 in on the south to allow for a 2ft setback from both interior property lines beyond the ti line where 7.5 ft minimum are required the third variance is a variance from section 13- 1512 to allow the pool to extend 10 ft past the Tha line the fourth variance is a variance from section 13-58 to allow a driveway with zert setback from the interior property line where 5 ft minimum are required and the fifth variance is a variance from section 13-58 to allow driveway with of 46 ft where 20 ft maximum are allowed thank you does the board have any questions of um staff if not we can hear from the applicant recomendation what's the staff recommendation on this staff recommends denial for the proposal as shown in the attached plans thank you in the in in the maybe in the packet on page 82 there is a proposed site plan but I think that that's more like what was is that what was done when they got the permit for the driveway correct that was the so the property had an existing deck that was projecting onto beyond the tieline and and there

was no permits that could be found uh the applicant well the applicant tried to look for the permits none could be found we did go back in Aerials and saw that it was there Circa 1997 at least I don't have any Aerials from prior that but I'm going to imagine that it was put in with the house um the pool however was not within that deck the pool was within the the Tha line um and you can see the previous configuration in the permit that uh he had with the driveway and that's why one of the reasons that drawing is in there so you can see the previous configuration so so that what's on page 42 on the driveway that was permitted already by the city correct and that was the permit as was per now it's the expansion of that driveway is that's what throws off the 46 ft okay and when we do the the the um the amount of foot of feet on the sidewalk the pathway onto our house how does that is that contemplated in the ordinance because that was a question that I personally had when I was looking at this is that because I I know we have a 20 foot for the driveway but I always wondered I I always wondered no I in this case I was wondering when it's the path for the int to go inside the house is that included in the 20 ft they have to be separated they can't be so you can't put the 20 ft plus the 3T for the walkway they have there's got to be a little bit of separation between them if you see in the configuration as as permitted there's a little bit of a 5 foot right uh setback for the portion of the driveway that meets the sidewalk and that's fine okay so the configuration of the permitted driveway is perfectly within all requirements of the law yeah okay thank you was the uh through the chair was the fence permitted I see that

there's a fence there and not supposed to be it's according to the applicant it's been there for a while you can ask him about it I could find no permits for that no permits for that but again it could have been there for a long time as well and yes you're correct that is not this is a purchase they purchased this property that's going to be a great question for him too it's closed yeah give him a second yes no because if it's if it's an existing owner and the fence has been there all the time they can stay but if it's a new owner the fence would have to then meet the code hold on hold on let me check that's henceforth the question so the the existing driveway and and the existing walkway uh to the to the back it goes all the way to the property line am I correct looks like there's 12 in wait the the uh no that that oh that's the new one that would be on the on the on the right side yes they are requesting a variance to allow the driveway to go all the way to the property line you are correct and I guess they the concept is that they're going to do a new pool yes uh encroaching on beyond the tieline right and that one would the new pool would encroach on the tieline correct

you can call the applicant whenever you like and yes the property was purchased on September 2023 and can the applicant come come I make a motion to reopen the uh hearing I think it's no he never we never closed Oh I thought it was closed sorry no yes sorry my mistake you got to give you got to give that over there you go yeah I'll pass it you got to give everything over there thank you for

for for for for Mr chair would you like the applicant to proceed with his um presentation I'm sorry would you like the applicant to proceed with his presentation oh yes yes go ahead and proceed please state your name and address for the record go ahead and press that button on

the base the mhm testing there you go first and foremost I want to thank my Lord Jesus Christ for this new day and for this particular day I've been waiting for this day for a very long time um my name is Joyce samanda my property address is 1420 Cypress Court Miami Lake Florida 33014 I want to thank you all for being here to hear us out um I appreciate this opportunity very much I know your time is volunteered so the fact to have something like this in place to hear our residents from Miami Lakes I think it's uh it's truly a blessing it's truly a benefit um and I want to thank you all for your time and for being here today to listen to me um I'm here for the variances uh that you guys have brought up as far as my driveway and for an existing deck that I have in the back and a pool um starting from the deck and the pool I have gone above and beyond to try to find records on this thing I have gone to downtown to try to find the microfilms I have gone to 25th Street Miami Dade to find the microfilms and all I keep getting is that there was some sort of fire that I have no idea about and that a lot of these records were burnt I've gone twice to the county I didn't take no for an answer one time I I went back again and I I requested a supervisor to see if a supervisor can help me because my GC was asking me for this so he can have sort of an idea before he starts breaking ground and there was nothing that I was able to find and both of those visits and one visit to downtown

um going back to my deck as far as um I was told there was a gentleman I'm not sure if you guys are aware of his name um his name is uh Peter Thompson apparently this gentleman worked for the City of Miami Lakes many many years ago in the building zoning department he was the owner of my property back back in the 80s 7s and 80s when I purchased a property from a gentleman named uh Audrey he told me that he had he inherited the property as is as he sold it to me so all the work deck pool everything was as is as I inherited in 2025 I could imagine if this gentleman Peter V Thompson worked for the City of Miami Lakes building and Zoning that he did everything up to code and with proper permits I tried to do my part I tried to do look for records like I mentioned but I couldn't find anything as it is my deck does already extend past the ti line by 10 10 ft and a couple of inches I think it's 106 um my pool is way too close to my house way too close to the structure I have a four-year-old about month and a half after we purchased the property we actually had an incident where he ran out the door he fell into the pool you know we were around obviously we we got them out quickly but it just painted a picture to me as to things that can happen so I'm talking about it was like maybe 5T and it had like a weird design like a weird triangle that even made it even closer to my house one of those weird older designs that Paul had back in those days so that was something that always since I bought the house was sort

of like a red flag I always wanted to push back the pool eventually at some point uh and seeing how I already had a deck that was 10 ft past the thail line I figure I can work within that space that was already established [Music] um the pool um starting from that I I hired a GC to help me with the pool I have been getting bids for pools for over a year it's been very expensive to build a pool these days with the cost of material that has gone up um the GC told me that he would handle everything from permits labor material um um gave me a great price we started working on the pool we didn't get to actually pour concrete and I thank God for that because a lot of red flags came up through that process that I even question him and his experience he would mention things that I thought were common sense to somebody that had experience building pools uh location of skimmers um he'll get on the phone and ask questions to people of things that I'm like man if you have knowledge building a pool you should know these things but nevertheless he gave me a great price I gave him the job um and on December the 26 the city came to my house they told me that I was doing work without permits and they shut the project down because there was a gentleman which at this point point I can thank him honestly for having called the city because we were about to pour concrete on about 3 days

after that incident happened uh this was on December the 26th one day after Christmas um and once you pour concrete I'm talking about spending over $10,000 in that getting extensively into the job um the work stopped the gentleman never answered my phone again I confronted him about hey weren't you responsible for pulling permits and doing all this that you told me you were going to be taken care of I never got a call back again I can give you the phone number here you can call it yourself it's number is now disconnected completely his name is Felix um after that I went to see Susanna and uh Justin who have been very helpful uh as far as Ed educating me um this home is the first home that I ever buy so I'm not an experienced homeowner took me 41 years to buy my first home in this country it's been truly a blessing uh to have been able to purchase a home here in Miami Lakes um and then I started with the process with Susanna and with Justin which have been educating me as to what I can do what I can do what what I could do and uh you know leading me to this day here today um I'm trying to work with the space that I have in my backyard I honestly don't have much because of the structure of my house and the space that it already takes within my lot so I'm trying to accommodate my pool by just pushing it back I did put as a request 12et for my deck so I can have my pool at 10 ft where my deck currently is um and to be honest with you some of the ideas that I got um um and not that my decision on my variance should be held on this previous hearing

whatsoever my direct neighbor 1410 had a variance hearing about 6 months ago he requested 14 ft past the Tha line although he has a lot more space than me to build a pool more in 1,700 square feet home compared to 2600 Square home um and he was granted he was granted 11 So speaking with him I sort of had started putting the idea together it took me a while to get to this point through planning and through getting quotes to establish what I definitely wanted as far as the distance that I wanted to build this pull within the deck that I already have established um and it's where I came up with these numbers that I presented to you here today which is if I can just push back my deck just two feet so I can put my pull 10 ft where my deck currently is past the ti line that's first um my driveway I got permits for my driveway okay [Music] um it wasn't the the most desirable layout that the city approved per se um I I came back multiple times I I must have gotten like seven revisions trying to work within the rules of what I can do as you can see I put uh some pictures uh in the back of the file um the before and after they made me for some reason leave a a patch of grass uh in the front next to the walkway which by the way on the variance it says that I'm trying to to build a 45 ft driveway it's not a 40t

Drive 45t driveway it's a 35t driveway There's 7 ft of walkway so that's why uh I presented these uh folders because the folder I had uh given it to Susanna before had the whole concrete slab all together it didn't separate the walkway and the driveway so it's 7 ft of walkway and then 35 ft of driveway um why so much driveway why look we all I think have different Necessities you know I don't judge but I think we all have different Necessities some of us don't have more cars than others I came from living in a condo where it's very restricted as far as having more than one or two cars which is one of the reasons why I decided to move besides my little four-year-old getting bigger and I wanted to put them in a pleasant neighborhood with good schools and good families um um I need space for at least five to six cars my wife um who's a little shy to get up here and speak with me um she's not from down here okay uh she's from poort St Lucy her entire family lives in Port St Lucy she has zero family down here they come down very often to visit her if not weekly bi-weekly talking about three four cars so every week or two I have a mess of cars in my house I think Miami Lakes in general I'm sure other cities as well have an issue with parking I drive around Miami Lakes and you see obstruction almost everywhere people parking obstructing traffic in the streets they have no other options they have no other Alternatives I within my property have

the capacity on that right side to extend my driveway and be able to solve an issue that I have so I don't have to have cars parked in the street obstructing the right of way I even asked my the neighbor to my right at one point I've asked them a few times but one specific time we were having a housewarming party after I had the after we purchased the home and somebody came and I didn't realize they part in his grass and they messed up his grass a little bit and of course I got the comment and I had to apologize and you know move forward if I cannot bother my neighbors and ask so much on a constant basis for permission to have to either Park on their side of the their house or obstruct traffic and rather solve the issue within my property on that left side of my home and I can accommodate all those you know the events that are going to continue they're not going to stop I'm her family's going to continue to come visit us we have get togethers you know we're blessed that we have friends and families and we do get together a lot and if I can solve that issue of parking within my property you know I would prefer to take that route rather than have to bother my neighbors on a constant basis um Suzanne brought up a solution which I I I didn't even think about said hey why don't you 20 feet here and do a second 10 feet over here do sort of like a circular driveway well as you can see in those pictures I have an oak tree to my left a massive oak tree and then on the extensive left I also have uh this thing that's sticking out of the ground like a utility like a three foot utility pole I don't have the capacity to build

anything on the left side and as it is I am within the city's 6040 requirements of cement versus grass so I am not obstructing and any drainage in my property the 6040 is there the driveway is the center the walkway is the center you can see to the right is the walk is the driveway to the left is all grass and I plan to keep it that way cuz my wife loves Landscaping we're going to put some beautiful landscaping there on the left I don't even want to touch that so as far as the drainage situation goes it is a 6040 there will be no issues when it comes comes to that I do realize that um after the perment was closed I extended my driveway wrongdoing 100% not proud of it um made a mistake again I'm building a home hopefully for the next 30 40 years hopefully I can retire cuz I really do dearly love the neighborhood and the design was it was hideous honestly what they approved as you can see there they left a patch of grass right next to my walkway I mean it was just I did those circle patterns driveways and they insisted in me leaving this lone square of grass I don't know why they wanted me to leave this little square of grass right next to my walkway for whatever reason and then on the right side I don't know if you can see the picture they wanted one square Square out one square in one square out one square in and giving I guess I guess that equal the 5 ft from the other side and I told him listen I don't know why this patch of grass of 8 ft I'm going to park on

it whether you want it there not it's not that is that I need to park on it so now instead you're going to have a dead patch of grass instead of letting me put a slab of concrete there so it can look better for the neighborhood and know I can also make it more useful for me and my family's needs you know I don't have a multif family I just have a lot of cars we both do on both sides of our families that I need to accommodate in order not to obstruct traffic in order to not have to park on the grass um in order to not have to bother my neighbors and accommodate these things within my property um I also extended a little bit to the side of the house okay um which that variance is not for today and I removed it from today's hearing when I purchased this home and like I said this is the first home that I ever buy guys I've been living in condos efficiencies all my life it's truly a blessing to have this home um man I bought this home and I think we all have a side of the house that we use more than the other one we have one side where we have all of our appliances AC water heaters garbage bins our garage door that's the right side of my house when I bought this home it would rain I had mud taking the bins was a pain in the ass honestly speaking anything that I had to do to that right side was a pain frogs garden snakes obviously more grass attracts more insects so I don't really care about the left side of my house I can leave that all grass I barely even go there but the right side of my house I do use it a lot it's very functional for us for me and my wife I come home my garage door everything we do even go to the backyard through the right side of my

home and um again I did it after the permit was closed there's no secrets not proud of it um I think through this process um I've educated myself as far as that the the process of a variance is not as difficult as people think it is I know that last year when I was visit the when I was when I was trying to put one in as far as a request it took a lot longer to actually get the hearing I think it would take like 3 months to actually get it now I was so happy to hear that now you guys are doing it like every month that's amazing um so again not being educated um made the mistake of instead of doing this and hey I don't agree with what the city approved you know this is what I would like to do because I have these necessities because it'll be a lot more functional for me and my family it's a one-time thing for you know for the next 20 30 40 years as long as we live there they'll make our lives a lot easier a lot better uh on our day-to-day um I think that should I been more educated I would have done that instead of making the mistake that I did and first first home I buy you know I don't have much experience as far as dealing with City and with permits and things like that mistake that I will never make again last and and least um for some reason I don't know why there's a gentleman in this room who's a neighbor of mine his name is Bob Bob at first was a nice guy but I don't know what's happening to Bob that I believe he has a personal issue with with me and my

family Bob gets into people business excuse me excuse me excuse me yeah I don't want to hear that I don't want to hear the reason I'm going to say that excuse me excuse me I don't want to hear you disparaging another neighbor you can do I'm not disrespect him I'm no you're disparaging him you're disparaging him we understand that you feel bad but we've given you quite a long time to address us okay and now discussing someone else is here in the hearing is incorrect well I just wanted to say one thing it's incorrect at this point if you wish Mr uh chair you can uh close the uh the hearing and uh uh allow uh yes if I me just say one thing guys you you've heard that they not to discuss anything about anybody else who's going to give testimony if you'd like to say something more about your application you may do so at this time well there was someone that for some reason you know and this is what really hit home that approved a variance that I am requesting today for my neighbor for my neighbor which is his direct neighbor but it is opposing Minds extending 14t beyond the variance beyond the Tha line he signed a letter for him but for some reason he is so against mind and I don't even know why I'm a Christian man I don't like to have any t or hardships or hostility with anyone you know I leave everything in God's hands but that really bothered me right I'm not even your direct neighbor I think I think I've heard enough of what you have to say I have a couple of questions through the chair of the uh applicant uh first of all did you hire this general contractor yes did you request did he show you his licenses and

insurance um no you didn't I didn't did you hire an architect to produce plans for the work that was done yeah architect plans I did have separately you got an architect to do those plans the plans yeah and those plans were perfor uh per you know performed by whom which Architect by an architect which who who was the AR I gave him my survey and he he did the no they had the Architects have names and they have licenses also um Julio in other words you don't have the name of the architect you're just Julio because he was referred to me by a guy that's helping me okay so normally you hire always so like I don't know if he didn't want me to step on his toes like I would tell him let me speak to the architect directly but he was always afraid that I was going to undercut him and go to the architect directly that he was so secret so you never you never met the architect never met the architect okay so you never met the architect well we're taken into the city at all before you had the work started to work on the pool and stuff like I said he told me he was going to handle everything he told me this is the price which was a lot better than the quotes that I had received and he was going to handle everything labor material paperwork everything did you sign any building applications for the town no you didn't sign any building applications for the town a general contractor no the owner has to sign applications for that's only when I'm doing an owner's permit uh no you have to sign for it okay you have to be on there your name has to be there everything has to be there okay like I said this is the first one that I buy sir I'm not an expert and my last question is after you got the driveway approved and it was finished you went ahead and did additional work

contrary to the advice and requests of the Town yes okay mistake you no just I want to make sure I understood admit to that I want to make sure I understood absolutely would I should I known that the variance process was so simple I honestly would have taken that route like I said I don't make mistakes twice try to learn from them educate myself from them also you know friends and families that I know in Miami Lakes that you know ask my opinion I will tell them the same thing that the process much easier than people think okay thank you for your input thank you very much any other question I do have a question you have a question okay yes what's the current state of the pool then in the back so the old pool was removed uh yes yes but there's no Concrete Port is just a hole okay okay so so basically that was you're going to remove well you already remove the pool and you that a permit you never even your contractor never got for you or your pool guy or whatever that I'm not even a not even permit at all for the pool yeah that my understanding is that you know they did the the hole without permit and that's the you know they so the only permit pool was basically the driveway the back part driveway yes sir okay but I had knowledge of right okay so there's no steel and there's no forming on the pool no what just no steel and no forming on on the there and rebars you do have rebars and you have God God we didn't they didn't pour concrete but you did not so he does have a the pool is already formed and the steel is already in place he's done demolition ready to pour the sh cre yeah that's the only thing they need do thank you yeah okay I have a question reference to the driveway the driveway is 46 ft no it's 35 35 that's why I corrected the the paper that I gave to you guys the issue I think that that was

something that I had brought up before with the pathway M once you unite your driveway to the pathway that's how they measure the 46 that's why before they were telling you to leave the the green patch in between one and the other yeah if you if you would have left a green patch then the pathway does that doesn't get included in the overall WID that's I think my understanding of the way the code is yeah you have to leave a foot all right can I ask because I've seen so many homes that has this circular driveway 20 and 10 and they look like they even take up more than 60 my understanding of the code is that it could be 20t you could do 20 ft on one side and 20 ft on another another it's not or or 10 30 foot maximum okay so it's 20 and 10 20 and 10 20 and 10 right now if you see those pictures I have an ult Tre on my left eye I don't want to touch I don't have the ability to even do those circular driveways so I'm trying to work within that space that I have on the right side of my home and I also have a utility I don't even know what the heck it is I think it's an FPL uh thing that's there that obstructs completely from me even putting anything nevertheless 10 ft so I'm just trying to work with what I have available to me guys just to accommodate my needs and my family's needs okay thank you thank you guys for your time Mr chair I believe that there's um people in the audience that wish to speak and provide their evidence yeah people in the audience that want to speak on behalf or against please come to the podium and state your name and address Robert Madden 14,000 Cypress

Court I put something together in a hurry but it's together do you want to review the document first before we start going over it yes can you give us a second please sure

for for for course for

Mr chair Mr chair would you like the applicant to provide I mean not the applicant I'm sorry the witness to provide his testimony yeah I'm all done okay go ahead sir okay after the presentation I just saw I probably shouldn't even bother with this but we're going to go ahead with it anyway as you can see from the document that I have here not nothing here is personal this has nothing to do with the people involved it strictly has to do with the front of the house and the back of the house when you live on a lake the back of the house is important as the front of the house everyone sees what you're doing I am really not sure what we're talking about today because this thing has been so convoluted with projects was that me okaye you're good just trying to speak more closer to the mic if you can closer to the mic all right observations and discussions ex expand Drive way after the final inspection that was done in my personal opinion on purpose with no permit so therefore the person requesting the permit knew better knew to ask for permit for the driveway and then decide to say the hell with it I'm going on and I'm going to do something else dig and put the rebar in the pool we had back hes and diggers and all kinds of stuff going on in the backyard tore up everything that he had in the

backyard and then dug a ditch actually did one big ditch and then another ditch for a fire pit that now he says he's not going to do so it's just a big pile of dirt which you'll see the picture in the in the group he wants to build a bulkhead I think over one foot on the water's edge uh where the slope would hit he cut the tree in the sale so the leaves would not fall on his car and I believe someone from the city did go out and inspect an arborist was I was told I I've never heard SE a document or anything that went with it I also think in the process he might be trying to kill that tree something about a roof in a patio I don't know anything about that at all that's something brand new future projects I think he's going to be back here a lot he has a garage door I think he might these are only thoughts that I have that he might be putting a room in the garage the fence around the property is old and the CID run over by the back hose and all the other stuff that's out there and sand in the lake and tonight I hear about a gazebo sure on the second page page two we have a drawing from an engineer that for some reason doesn't even have the dimensions of the pool it it it doesn't even show the right dimensions of the driveway except going all the way over to the property

line I don't know who did this I would say I would send it back and fix it and open Terrace I've never heard about that before all along the sideline of the house there's no grass at all there existing pool to be remodeled in the same location that's not true it's going to be moved completely and you can look around this drawing I don't know if you would accept it or not as a as a drawing of it's like a poster stamp of what's supposed to happen the next page on the left hand side is the existing house you see the pool and the pool is behind the thail line towards the house and then an additional cement patio was put towards the Lakeside I think they were done in different times if you're familiar with this house or not if you took the pool and you went straight down on the old po old pool there's a overhang in this house that goes out about 8 ft that was filled in and glassed in so therefore the pool had no axis practically you were right on the pool if you look on the right hand side this is his proposed pool which is three you don't again we have no dimensions of the pool all the dimensions around the pool are really messed up you have to add and subtract and buts around with it but he is you can see how how far he is towards the

lake existing pool to be relocated in the same location well you can see from the old picture to the new picture it's far from the same location let's go to page four what I did there was on the left hand side is the request from the so-called engineer on the right hand side I moved the pool back to where the patio is and put grass in front of it that was just my idea I don't think we need to take away from the slope of our Lake and doing anything beyond the Tha line in my opinion is wrong uh we move on to page five really this is just some of the codes that you have that you're going by that you're really not supposed to do anything behind the ti line unless you're up to 16005 or whatever there are special conditions now look at the slope of the lake on the houses across from him we have beautiful green grass all the way down to the waterline that makes a difference around the lake when we have a two-day flood half of that is gone and that's just a two-day flood a hurricane go a little further let's go to page six again we're looking at two different houses and looking at their slope I got

too much of the lake that's my fault not much of a photographer and it also talks there about the bulkhead should be one foot above the water so if I took a line and I drew it from the pool directly to the water that should be the slope in the back of the house all right we'll go to page seven we're whipping right through this this is a picture from my home to a house we're talking about if you look on the left hand side I've written in there the Tha line which is right at the back of the house all of this dirt that you see here has to go somewhere if you look at the rebar that you can see right by that red flag the poys in that can you see that rebar that's what's in the pool now and if you go for uh backwards from there there is a fire pit that's been dug that's probably 12 by 12 but he's going to fill that in and he's not going to do it just another project that's not going to happen at least least in this go around I am concerned about the property lines I am concerned about the encroaching on the thaine I have many concerns I've been on this Lake a long time and we've never had a situation like this never and hopefully we never will again thank you the board May cross-examine him if you wish I'm sorry you may cross-examine him

if you wish you can ask him any questions if you'd like I don't have any questions anybody else um wants to speak good evening everyone hear me good evening my name is Christopher Crowley I live at 14151 Leaning Pine Drive Miami Lakes 33014 I diagonally across the lake uh from the person who's requesting the the changes um apparently I have a great Green Lawn I didn't realize it extends down to the lake so I don't want to I'm not going to get into the details of this I just want to talk about Miami Lakes why we live here my wife and I moved here in 1986 we bought our house uh in 98 so we've been living in Miami Lakes for near nearly 40 years we moved here from Coral Gables one of the big reasons we're here Tree Line streets streets have names pocket Parks there's a place to raise children and um property deed restrictions control of the neighborhood in raising our children here we experien exactly what we wanted we have a pocket park literally four houses away but the big Park is the lake all the way around the lake our children had lots of other children their age they're now adults they basically grew up on that Lake and that Lake they went everywhere yes we own property in the back into the into the water we own it all into the water on that Lake but everyone's backyard was their

play area they were safe they're running around I'm familiar with the property um from the owner who's here because there's a fence that extends nearly to the water far beyond the Tha line a green fence I don't know if it's there now I haven't looked recently um the kids always complain about it I defer to town staff as to whether those are fences are legal or not it's my impression you're not allowed to build beyond the Tha line so that world beyond the ti line was my children's our neighbors children's everybody running back there they threw kayaks and boats in there they fish they run around the fish aren't biting here they run around the other side of the lake on someone else's property no one complained it's exactly what we looked for and why we moved to Miami Lakes so to me the reason I'm here is the respect the thaine we all have little survey issues maybe the the ti line doesn't fall perfectly and maybe someone goes over 6 Ines on one side of the ti line but you hit the ti line on the other you have administrative variances to deal with that but this is an administrative variance this is this is a big deal this is a lot of concrete and everything else and if you start allowing significant work beyond the ti line this whole place where we wanted for our children to run around um that goes away because everyone's going to start encroaching on the Tha line and you know I knew Peter Thompson did he get a permit no idea it's it's impossible to know um that his fence extended as far as it did far beyond

someone else not a good not a good look so that's what I'm here for is it's my children are grown but I've got a new neighbor he's got kids and those kids are going to go running through my backyard which is fine I've got some uh kids that come on to the lake that fish and they go around and yeah they're on everyone's property beyond the thail line fishing that's why we're here that's why we live in Miami Lakes for that and so that's really what my comment here is this evening why I came in yes I see the ruction apparently there's an issue with whatever is going on on that side of the lake I don't know anybody here I don't recognize anyone well I recognize one or two of you just in passing because I've been in town hall once or twice well actually you've probably been to my wife's charity so um but that's what this is about right it's protecting that because once we start making a change you know the town approved a metal roof a few years ago ago a decade ago whenever it was we always had Barrel tile and now we have metal roofs so your decision that you make will impact everyone down the line because this isn't a small you know variance it's a pretty significant variance so everyone will look to this and say well okay look at this I have a precedent how far can I push this to go beyond the Tha line so that's that's my comment for tonight any questions thank you very much for your time anybody else you can close public hearings now if you'd like and then deliberate Mr chair

okay public hearing is closed you guys can already begin deliberating and discussing I I'm sorry sir you've you've already spoken you had your chance now it's the the public hearing is closed now my my my first issue that I have is what I my comment I I made uh before is the size of the of the of the driveway um being 46 feet is is excessive uh especially not not even split up it's all horrific that he poured after he got it what he had approved no I I understand yeah I think it's horrific that he came in after a permit was pulled not only filled in along the side of the house all the way down mhm but he he's also filled in a square that was left in the middle there that was required by the town in between his walkway the walkway supposed to be 3 feet it's much uh bigger than that I mean it's egregious everything that's there is egregious but right right now what I see it's it's it's a it's a a big from from from the property line no no no drainage whatsoever and then 46 ft to the South yeah I'm familiar with the property I uh know Peter Thompson I've known Peter Thompson yeah you know 35 40 years MH so that you know I have a problem with that I have a problem with the you know the slabs on both sides of the house yeah

and and I have a problem with encroachment of the pool I I agree with the gentleman 100% I live on a lake Lake Mar and uh and I I see the the children going kids not children teenagers going around and uh um you know walking through my backyard you know fishing but that's you know I live on a lake too and they do the same thing on my and I and I I have no I have no problem with it because that's that's that's what it is that's what it is that's that's and through the share we were talking about the thaine if we go back in in time that was the whole idea of the grams creating Miami Lakes and that's why we are called Miami Lakes so many lakes and the whole idea was like he says people from outside can come in and enjoy the lake the lake was not only for the residents it was for anybody to come in through the empty pocket parks and go and be able to use the lake that's what makes us unique and different and I do have an issue and before us a lot of people come up some people with a tight line to to be able to move the tight line and and that's a big issue that I've always deal with it because you put in the Integrity of the whole intent of 60 years ago yeah the chair we have approved uh encroachments into the Tha line for swimming pools on occasions that really required it in order to have the swimming in this case this property doesn't really require it that additional 10 ft of concrete that's out there should have been there you know uh the pool can be in there without encroaching that much into the thail line I I just don't see a

reason to to approve that either so neither do I because there's there's enough room between the pool right now I mean between the proposed pool and the house I I mean I can't see that di menion but uh point of order if all of you could please really speak into the mic it's very very very important um yeah my point here is that when you purchase a house you have to look into the zoning of the house what's allowed what the sets back are for anything uh if you're going to do any changes you should hire an architect to come out and do the changes according to what's available if you want to do a variance then you do it at that time prior to starting to tear up anything and do anything everything here has been done totally opposite just you get the feeling that it's what I want what the person wants and not what's the best for the town or what are the rules that's how that's the feeling that I have Susan the the current code does allow for you to go above the The Sur TI line for Tech correct of 250 up to 225 square feet of deck beyond the tieline as long as it's only 18 in above existing grade right and it the is there anything with the pools that also extend beyond the survey TI line the the we pass asked an ordinance a couple of years ago to allow the the catch BAC of infinity pool infol beyond the Tha line right so that you would see the water from the water and we don't have a survey of this property

to identify um no none was provided the only uh survey the only thing that we have in lie of a survey is the original plans from this from the driveway yeah because I'm trying to figure out the distance of that pool from the back of the house the the proposed or the existing 1 138 no but that's not where the 138 I I think that that's including the extension even Beyond so through the chair I'd like to ask Suzanne what's the town's recommendation here again uh the town is at this time recommending denial denial I make a motion as per the town's recommendation the the town's recommendation is um to deny to deny all all requests I second on the motion if anybody would like to discuss that I was just trying to figure out to see if because currently they I guess um they probably do encroach beyond the survey tieline and it's an issue as to whether or not that was ever permitted prior to incorporation correct as as far as a deck but as to the deck the pool was seems to be perfectly within the guidelines correct yes I can tell you that the uh the deck was there because I was in that yard 35 years ago yeah I went to into Google Earth and I could go back to 1990 and it seems that's there too at least the 1990 no it it was there but that was prior to the town but then there's a rule that the town has that it's okay

for whatever was existing at the time the town became the town to be there but after the property is sold it has to comply any changes have to comply to our zoning rules right h that any changes have to comply to our zoning rules once the property is sold if you're going to make a change so at this point they're making changes I Mr chair if I may State a couple things I just I I want all of you to understand more or less Your Role conversations fine you have a motion before the floor I understand when you're looking at at variances you're looking at at a few things uh to keep in mind you know whether the town has received any written support for the variance there is support and and there's also opposition uh that you've heard tonight whether approval of the variance would be compatible with the development patterns in the town and in that area uh whether the variance can be approved without causing sub substantial detriment to adjoining properties whether the variant would do uh substantial Justice to the property owner as well as to other property owners uh to justify a relaxation of the code whether the Flight of the applicant is due to unique circumstances of the property Andor applicant which would remember uh the Conformity with strict requirements of the chapter unnecessarily burdensome and whether the special condition circumstances exist on the property are beyond the control of the applicant I mean that's that's really your criteria So based on the town's uh recommendation and and the the evidence that uh was provided based on the applicant's testimony and the evidence that he provided and on everyone else that uh properly testified and provided that's what you need to make your your decision on tonight um I know that there's been conversations and you mentioned about other applications

that we did extend beyond the timeline and but those stand on their own those stand on their own based on these criteria those at that point in time met the criteria and that's why why they were passed uh so each application needs to stand on its own and meet these um these requirements I've stated I just want to put everybody in the right posture I understand I understand uh uh other uh encroachments that that we've we've approved before because there was no other no other way to approve the encroachments of those of those of the pools beyond the thail line but here in this case there is a way out if he brings a pool close to the house I mean which I understand you know he he you know he brings the uh the case of his four-year-old child which I you know I respect that but uh there there's a way out bringing the pool bringing the pool back in MH pool fence I'm sorry pool fence pool fence yeah my my son has a pool and oh no no yeah he he has a 5-year-old daughter and he has a pool fence around him yeah mhm so can we make a motion to the motion is on the already have a motion on the table we have a motion we have a motion we have to either either adjust it through a friendly uh amendment huh Amendment Amendment sorry Amendment through a friendly Amendment or just vote on it as it is see if it goes if it's approved or not or we approve the motion well I mean I

I've I've read staff recommendation and and it nothing complies nothing complies do the staff know how much um that deck goes beyond the the property obviously without a survey it's impossible to tell right surve that's not a surve that's not accurate No those numbers aren't accurate so I don't think it's a survey uh like 8 feet per the the existing deck goes 106 beyond the tieline he's proposing to enlarge it by another foot and six so the existing deck is the hashed line on the drawing you see how there's a double line in the back uh that's an extension that he's proposing of another foot 1 6 in same thing on the sides the existing deck is uh within the footprint of the house he's uh he's proposing to extend it towards the property lines to 2 feet setbacks so you're saying that the current deck is 106 away from the back of his property as per the submitted drawing uh the aals look consistent with 10t 6 in yeah Mr Julia if you look on the plan it shows the pool where they want to put

it the pool is 13 ft eight Ines away from the resident and and through the chair how how big is the pool cuz I don't see it here because no no we're not allowed to speak no we're not allowed to speak we have to reopen the hearing for you to be able to speak so I'm open to your suggestion M no I was just trying to give a little bit of room for the pool because there is a deck I was thinking of staying within the confines this thing is that I I'm not 100% sure that it's I mean there's plenty of room into that deck to go back well yeah cuz it looks here according to this there's 13 ft 13 and 1/2 ft from the house8 in to the house there you know 5 ft from a house that's correct purle 6 ft from a house correct but he couldn't build so wait a second yeah but he couldn't build it there he has to build it within the the issue is how much room is there between or at least for me the issue is how much room is there between the end of the house and the survey tieline now between the end of the house and the survey tieline there it's right there at the 15t Mark the survey TI line if you look at the cross-hatch Mark there's a there's a room there's a room that comes in all the way to the edge of the Sur Pine and there and then there's an area there that's all crosshatched that's like is like 188 correct 138 is it 188 pretty much 138 it's this 13 ft8 no no I'm what I'm trying to figure out is how much room does he have to do the pool without a

variance it looks to me that would be the 188 he would have about 7t seven or eight I would say fet to do a pool there and be away from the house I think he has a total of 188 by looking if you want to give them space into the thaine you would have to allow them to have about 6 feet into the tiine if that's what you would like to do through the share I was doing those numbers if uh if we give a five 5 ft into the Tha line and he mve us it back instead of having a a 138 he will have an 88 setback from the house yes and we can cut it in half yes yeah do that you have to make the you know the suggestion you know to if you want to do a friendly amendment to to allow a five foot watch this so I think this is this is the structure that's 188 so 188 and it looks to me like this goes all the way to the survey tit survey that would mean that from this wall to the Sur timeline he has 188 so if you do a typical full has what 15 ft that only Le 3 38 on the wall make make make the pool 12T that's the other option at the water edge right on the on the survey Thailand through the share if if we were to work with him and and again I want to respect the the thaine as much as we can and I wish we'll not be in this situation sorry for hiring the wrong person and not doing your due diligence you you learn the hard way you've invested and lost a lot of money by not getting a a licensed contractor but that's that's the past we

are here today what I'm thinking and suggesting as a friendly Amendment like the the attorney said move the tieline not even 5 ft move it 3 ft give a set back between the house and the pool of 88 and reducing the pool from 16 ft to 14 ft and that will give us only 3 ft from the tieline that the encroachment that would be your friendly amendment that will be uh I would accept that friendly Amendment uh if the rest of the property all the concrete that's been poured without permits and all the encroachments of concrete on the sidey yards is removed other than that I would not be a I would not allow a change in my uh on on your uh well I think I so that would be you know to to bring the property back into code remove all this concrete that's been poured without permits we can give them the feet that you're saying three feet or five three feet three feet ofet yeah t line so then you can have that pool so uh do we have you can't talk to us down and if you do you're creating an issue yeah uh so we have a motion in a second so do we have to there's a motion in a second then we'll have to vote we'll have to vote go ahead I was going to say say that you have to vote on his Amendment so you just disc I'll second I'll second the friendly Amendment incorporating what Mr deas said yeah well I think the amendment was only pertaining to yeah exactly was only just the bull and I agree with Mr Sierra everything else has to comply so so make that part of your motion if you can and

have that seconded okay so I go ahead and make the motion to bring it up so the motion is to allow a an encroachment of 3 ft and into the tieline the pool in between the pool and the house the setback will be 88 and the pool needs to be reduced from 16 to 14 ft and the rest of the property and the rest of the property has to comply as the town code all concrete Landscaping everything okay take a second and the width of the pool uh Mr the pool yeah um member Cru the width of the pool the width 30 ft okay the width not the length no he said 14 14 30 by 14 30 by 14 okay that that does require a second I I'll second that motion that finally Amendment okay so roll call for the motion made by Cruz second by board member Julia um board member Cruz yes board member Julia yes board member deerra yes okay and chairman leonio yes okay motion passes now for the original one okay now you have to vote on the original one as amended okay original motion as amended uh board member uh Julia yes board member Cruz yes board member deerra yes and chairman leonio yes amendment pass passes excuse

me okay that concludes the um public hearing portion of this meeting uh there is another matter uh for all of you to um look at and I wanted to make a recommendation it's with regards to the short-term rental ordinances in first reading um I know at least one of you has reached out to me and I apologize for not getting back U uh so if you wish to have a little bit of time because I know this is an important topic for many of you to read through these changes and then come back at the next meeting so that we can have more of a robust conversation uh the the town would be okay with that because we're not bringing this back to the council until March okay okay so just needs a motion to defer I'll make a motion to defer and I'll second that okay I think we could say all in favor all in favor all in favor right anything else a motion to defer correct yep okay the motion passes what when is that going for up for a second here it'll come back in March no to the Town Council in March so you have time to discuss it before and to the Town Council right okay cuz I have some comments on it that yeah if if you'd like um I could email them to you yeah and we can talk about it after yeah motion to adjer we need a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn the meeting I can take this with me right second that all in favor I I the fold yeah all right I show you my notes