Council - Regular Meeting

We have on the floor discussions about what is the quorum and what kind of communication can be made. And so I thought that was a conversation we can have as a council. So you looking for the definition of decorum. So Mr. Clerk, that'll be on you to describe that. What's the definition of decorum? And I guess when you say what definitions can or what conversations can be had, Dr. Pow. So I you mean between the audience and

Yeah. So let's start with the um addressing the the question that came about concerning the quorum and I think our international master clerk can can um clarify for us if you bas it on what the charter says. Yes, please.

So and based on the charter and the code [clears throat] city council meetings are ran by Robert's rule of order. Ideally, the mayor as the chair of the council or whoever has the gavl, you know, they control the they they're the ones that ultimately decide what is the decorum of the meeting. The mayor can decide to recess the meeting if he felt the meeting didn't have to quorum as we brought the ordinance as as it relates to public participation. There's some guiding principles to that, but ultimately the decision maker as far as it comes down to the quorum would be ultimately the mayor. The council as a body through Robert's rule can make a vote, a point of order type of vote to request certain things, but

the male or the sitting person chair presiding presiding chair. There we go. Yeah. [clears throat] So, I can't define the word the quorum. Okay. So for us as a council um you as the mayor now can determine and dictate what that looks like and I think for the um the residents

well what it looked like for me is what it's based on on from the charter and when we read that card the yellow card in the back of the yellow card it it states what we expect out of the quorum. Now, it doesn't go into details as far as definitions concerning um what was those those like being disruptive, being uh aggressive or being there's no definition as to that on the card. Uh, so the law has changed now too, right, madam attorney? In reference to what we put on the back of that card,

can you clarify? You're talking with It depends on which the quorum you're talking about. Are you if you're talking about the quorum from the audience, that's one thing. Uh, we do have rules for that in in our code and that is has changed as the mayor mentioned. Um, and we made amendments to the ordinance based upon that. So that's done. Um there are also the corums. I'm sorry. Um I'm sorry the attorney. Can you clarify for our residents the changes

to the ordinance again? Okay. So we changed the def we changed the section of the code that says you must only direct your comments to the chair. So people if they want to reference a council member by name or however when they're addressing their public comments, they can. We also took out definitions and just referred to Webster and Black's law dictionary because that's a, like I said before, an evolving area of the law. And so most codes in Miami Day County still say that you can do what our code said you did because that is just a case. So when cases come out, they kind of change how you have to do things. But we've addressed that provision, those provisions in our code already. That's why I bought the ordinance. And if you're speaking like as the clerk already said the corum from the day that that's outlined by Robert's rules of order and our code says that we refer to the Robert's rules of order. So I mean so for clarifications um the anyone coming to speak now can actually speak directly to or name a specific council member if they choose

according to that case. Yes. Okay. And but the quorum per se is dictated by our charter and our rules by the presiding not the charter. It's an ordinance. The ordinance not the charter. The ordinance the co the or the council's ordinance on decorum and public meetings is what governs and it refers to if there's not a rule that's specified out we refer to Robert's rules of order that's in the ordinance itself. Okay. And a prime example would be last council meeting.

Um people were allowed to speak and say what they needed to say in reference to any council member up here and I did not stop them. Uh before it was you could only address me, the presiding officer, and this council, but now they're they're able to based on the the law, they're able to address whomever they want to address. Are we able to address them? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. So, you are too. So, when there is a public comment,

but we're not going to do it in public comment. Oh, oh, but but what I'm saying, let me let me finish up. If there is a c public comment and it is spoken erroneously, like errors are said, lies are told, whatever you want to call it and and we know that that is not a factual situation. At what point and when is that corrected for the record? Okay. So there I'll read to you what the Robert rules of order says about you what you all do and then you could so No, but what I'm asking I I'm that's that's how I'm going to address it because you have a right. You do have a right as same first amendment rights they have you have.

Okay. But is it a part of how we do business here? That's what I'm asking because we we've I I've not seen in public comment essentially anybody but the chair of this dis speak to something that might have been said that was inappropriate that was not true. It was only addressed by the presiding officer. Right? And so what I'm the question that I'm asking is is that if there is an erroneous um personal whatever uh comment that is made that that does not necessarily have to do with the business of of of of this dis um a historical issue which means that it is not being heard by this dis and or it continues to be an issue that is brought up when we have said that it's a dead issue and So what I'm saying is what um are the kind of parameters that allow us to hear what our residents need to say to us and we can be relatively comfortable that we have heard enough on that issue and we can move forward. You know because it appears that we have dealt with things in our meeting and six months later we're still talking about the same thing from that position. Not that it's a new issue, but that it's just an issue that um we're not there's nothing that we can or or are going to do about it. At what point does does that begin to um have some some bearing?

Okay. So, two things. You all have what you call open public comment here. Not all cities do. City of Miami doesn't. Miami Day County doesn't. City of Sunny House Beach does. A lot of cities don't allow open public comment. So because you allow open public comment, we cannot censor what people have to say. Even if it's a dead issue in your mind, they have a right to speak. That's the first amendment and it's a strict scrutiny test. So because you have open public comment, then you open yourselves to having to hear things over and over again. That's just the way it is. The cities that don't, what they do is they have a process where you can speak to items that are on the agenda. So if it's not on the agenda, it's not we don't have they just don't have an air something on their agenda called open public comment. Um those cities and we are required also in accordance with our charter and the Miami date county charter as well to have what we call citizens presentations. So there's generally a process for that though. So like for example, if a citizen wants redress from you all for something, they have a right to seek that seek uh you know redress from you because you're elected. Um the process if we were to do something like that, the process I would recommend would be something similar to what Miami Day County does, which is you have to we have a process where first you got to take your concern to the manager and the manager then tries to resolve it um with the person. If the person's not satisfied, then ultimately they still have a right to come before city council. But it's not an open it has to be something that's within your jurisdiction to handle. So that that limits it right there. But there's no you don't have to have open public comment like we have now is what I'm saying.

Can I get a clarification? So my understanding that the way things are right now with public comments any person any resident can come and speak on an issue and infinitely. Yes. Even by law. Okay. And it and now and it doesn't have to be anything that is on the agenda, right? It doesn't have to be. So a person can talk about an agenda item from last September if they chose. All right. They could talk about something that was never on the agenda if that's what they choose because you have open public comment.

Okay. All right. And back to the I think um Councilwoman Wilson was saying um I think a concern about now responding as it is. We can respond directly at the time of public um comments. No, you have to respect your chair and he is the chair of the meeting. We don't get to just respond. Now you can make a point of order. If somebody said something that's out of order, you can ask the chair. I say I have a point of order and the chair recognizes you and you can clarify at that point in time but we still follow the rules like you know

I I guess the problem that I'm having with that is there have been a lot of erroneous disrespectful statements that have turned the decorum of our meetings into a a show that is not necessarily cool, you know, and I I don't know that I'm a I'm not necessarily against public comments because I really like hearing from the public. But I have seen it become so repetitious and it is now falling to a low level of operation. It's not respectful in many instances from some residents. I'm not going to take all residents and lump them into a category. That's that's not my intention. However, my intention is to be able to say that I I I do believe that residents ought to have an opportunity to be heard. I just think that there is a point at which we cannot lose sight of what that is supposed to be like and what that decorum is supposed to represent. We, you know, on this side of the dis, we're not allowed to respond to anything that they say, right? But but on that side of the of the dis there should be a way in which they are able to present themselves and not come in with personal um disrespectful things here. Here's what happens, right? I'm going to give you an example, right? You have people that come up and they'll say something. I'll use this one as an example. They'll they'll say something that offends a whole another group of people like like I had seniors calling me saying what what they mean that it's a click you know and I I had to say don't don't don't take that personally you you know like don't let that be anything that that you that causes division with you

all you know so you're you're people become offensive and then they dislike a person who it just gave their personal opinion on something But it was but they took it really personally. And so my point in saying that we don't need that kind of division in our community. We don't. And I I don't have a problem with the advocacy because that helps me to define what my focus needs to be. But I do have a problem when it comes willy-nilly and and people then become very divided and become very offended by what was just a public process of us being able to hear from our residents and to understand better what their conditions are and how we may have be may be of assistance. instead of becoming a somewhat of a circus of insults um of um um um almost uh you know personal attacks not only on this diet here but on other residents. There needs to be some type of way in which you come in anybody can come in and state their business. State what it is that you're concerned about. State what it is that you need. state what it is that you'd like to see and then move on, but don't begin to attack the things that you personally don't like when it has nothing to do with your personal things. So, I think that somehow or another, if public comments are going to remain a part of our day, our operations when we come on this DAS, there has to be a defined decorum for that. You can't just get up and say what you what you want to say, however you want to say it and whoever you want to say that about because it's offensive and is very divisive and it is disrespectful. It's disrespectful.

You know, I can disagree with people and and have a disagreement. I can I can actually have a disagreement with them, but I don't I don't have to attack them to take my stance. I I don't have to go after that and and and take it to the next level. And unfortunately, I think that that's where this has gotten. It's it's moved beyond just the issue and it has become a direct attack. Okay? Let's say it's become a direct attack. What do people do when they feel attacked? Okay. And so then we end up on something else other than taking care of the issue of taking care of what our residents need because we've taken it too far out and we need to draw that back in and get down to the business of what the people are saying they are needing. And I and unfortunately I I I mean, you know, actually public comments can be held in town hall meetings. We we could vote today to not even have public comments at our meetings. No, I just got to say what I got to say.

I'm letting you say what you got to say here.

Okay. We we could say we don't want it and we'll see y'all every quarter, which is what other folks have done. I don't know if that's the will of the council, but I can tell you that it's not my will. I I I I I don't have a problem with seeing my my residents or seeing the residents here. But what I what I do have a problem with is is just seeing the showboating and the blatant disrespect of people on this dis and even of people out there. And if we can just bring the decorum in line so that anybody that has a desire to speak and want to be heard that it's done so in a manner that is mutually respectable because right now it's getting ready to become a circus through the mayor to um the city attorney. If I can have clarification, the council can respond through the mayor. You can't

and request to respond to any comments made that are directed. Yes. I have to be clear. The first amendment is is something you know. Yes. Everybody has the same right under the first amendment and the courts are very clear on when it can be limited and when it cannot be limited. Now, you all have different rules that you operate by than the public because you all are under Robert's rules of order. So, you have to be recognized by the chair. You need to call a point of order. You also have a time in the agenda when you get to speak. So, the rules of civility apply, but as far as what people say, I'm not I'm not in the business of policing it because the case is very clear that unless it's abusive, and that's why we changed the code has to be abusive language.

Um, even some profanity in the case loss, they were good with it. And that's just the world we live in now. Um, but yes, I believe that the same way people have a right to speak, you all have a right to speak. And and and let me say this, let me say this. On this day is as the chair, you'll have an opportunity to speak during your time as uh a council member. When you're giving your reports, you have time to speak. But if we try to address those issues during public comments, we will be here till next week. And so we can't we can't address every public comment because at at that time at the public comment time that's why during

but then if if you guys are willing to sit here all night see this is and and go back and forth in public comment. I don't think that this is a matter of of of people having the freedom to speak because nobody here is determining that people should be not be allowed to speak. What we're saying is that that there has to be a decorum by which everybody abides by and if if if a if a council person chooses to make their comments at the end or immediately following the public comment that there should be a space for that because here's the thing right

well there is but it'll be up to me to determine when you ask it'll be up to me to determine whether or not I will allow it. So it is a it is not a freedom then it is regulated for us. The moment that we get to be regulated up here in terms of what we need to say and there is no regulation out there then what has happened in in in with regard to this is that there's a recording that goes around and people assume that what they have heard when there is no dispute is the truth and it is not necessarily the truth. We oftentimes get up here and there are people in and and you don't have to address all of them. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that every time somebody says something and we know that they're wrong that we need to correct them. But there are times when the the civility of our meetings is compromised and when it crosses that line, it ought to be stopped because the residents the vast majority of the residents of this city don't like that. They don't they don't appreciate when when there's an uncivilized or an un um an you know there's not a decorum or a standard of decorum that actually everybody has agreed to and abide by and I'm sorry the first amendment doesn't allow you to cry fire when there is none that exists. It doesn't allow you to do that. We have a responsibility to conduct these proceedings where every citizen that comes in here feels that they're going to be heard, including the ones that serve as public officials. And I I I I don't seek to overthrow anyone, not you, not anyone that's a that's a that's a resident. I cuz I I know how I feel about being heard, but you just can't come up and just think

you could say anything you want to say how you want to say it and and and and with your ways. You you you can't do that to anyone. No one deserves that. No one deserves that in this building. No one deserves that on the street. And it we've we've we've got to harness this thing and bring it in, you know? But we we've got to bring it in because it's getting out of control. And and and let then I'm I'm going to be quiet on this one here and and and for a minute.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Cuz I have a voice. I have a voice and I have a right to be heard like everyone in here. And my rights are not going to be denied because I sit on this dis. What I'm going to do is seek the same amount of respect from you as you seek from me. And we're not going to agree all of the time. But you know what we can do? We can agree that we are going to disagree. And although I may not like what you said, I'm going to sit here and listen. And to me, that needs to be the foundation upon which we conduct our meetings. that there is no reason for the disrespect. Make your point, let let us hear, we deliberate, and we move forward. But all of the other stuff that this is coming down to, it's going to get even uglier. And when we live in an inflammatory time where people are not regulating their mouths, they're saying anything and everything about one another. They're calling each other from the president down. We've got to say no. That's not what's going to happen here in Miami Gardens. We're going to conduct ourselves. We're going to seek to solve our problems. We're going to work together as much as we can to get these things taken care of without disrupting the meetings because I I don't want to see that happen here. So, it's easier for me to try to work to solve the problem than to have all of this fanfare that's unnecessary. Mr. Mayor.

Yeah. Um, I could just, you know, bring it to a head. I think our forefathers, you know, when they created the city, they wanted to make sure that our residents had the opportunity to express themselves, right? So, that was the form, that was the reason why they formed Miami Gardens, so we can take control of our own taxes. We can control our own destiny. We can have uh candid conversations. But we do uh with open public comments, it's something that's needed, especially in our community. So, we understand what the residents are going through, what we can and cannot fix, and direct them in the right location. But we do have uh through like the city attorney said, we do have the option that if there's something pressing or dire, you know, through you, we can ask for a point of privilege. We can ask for a point of order to clarify that. I know every public comment doesn't call for that, but if there's something egregious or something being said to that extent, we do have that right to ask you for a point of privilege. And

absolutely, I don't I don't see you denying us when it comes to a point of privilege like that. You you know, you're very you're a fair person and you make sure that even the residents when they go over their time, you extend that opportunity to them. So, we do have um outlets in order to respond. But since we're governed under the Robert rules of order, we have to follow those rules in order to respond back to them. Absolutely. And I I just don't want it to turn into a circus where we get going back and forth tickytacking with each other. And that's how it shouldn't be that way. And and I'm not going to allow it to be that way. I don't

So, um, just for clarification, I I guess I have to go, um, defer back to our attorney because I heard, um, Councilwoman Wilson mentioned something that I guess we should be pretty clear of. Does the First Amendment dictate that what is said have to be true? No. They say does it have to be whatever they want to say. Does it say that it has to be said nicely? No. Does it? As long as it's not aggressive. No, it can be aggressive. Tell a lie. It can be aggressive. Come up here and and abusive. Mayor, I think is what

abusive. That's the word I'm saying. And that term is, you know, that's one of those terms that what someone may consider abusive, someone else may not. That's exactly right. But so, so, so what I'm saying is, excuse me. I apologize. So my understanding, first amendment allows for lies. It does. It allows for aggressive tones. It does. It allows for what I may consider disrespect. It does. Because it's that's, you know,

um I I think that that's that's a that's just simply not necessarily all the way true. what the what it allows for you to do is to have the right to speak, but the people govern what that is like. The people are the ones that determine the tone of it. So when we talk about telling lies, there's a there's a when you break a law and you start telling lies, there's a penalty for it. So, what I'm saying is maybe what we need to do is to start looking at penalties for coming in and disrupting an environment in this in these chambers that there's that there needs to be a penalty when you've been told what the rules are and you continue to break them. See, because one one of the things that is going to happen is that the civility under which we currently are trying to conduct these meetings and have been doing it for almost two decades is eroding every moment. Every moment when we allow this environment here not to be put in check and I mean it doesn't matter on what side of the disas that it occurs. What matters is that we all agree that we don't use profanity in here. When we all agree that we don't name call, that when we all agree there needs to be that we don't come in here and raise our voices at each other in ways that that's that's combative. I'm I'm I'm saying that to you because there are some people that are in this very room, right, that can come up and have a conversation with you with the from that das and not raise their voice that that that they that they that that they are able to to to present themselves and the information that they have without being combative and and can tell you that they I feel that you were wrong. I think you need to look at this. They make their points assertively, but no one is offended when they walk away from the the podium. So, we can't allow people to come up to the podium and think that because they insult us that that's okay. It's not

okay. It's not okay to insult us because guess what? There is somebody else in the audience that may find what you said insulting to them. And then we open this Pandora's box of of a of a terrible environment that is unacceptable. We have to be above certain behaviors and a certain environment and we cannot allow the the the hollow chambers to become poisoned because that's what is happening. is becoming poisoned by people who in the name of advocacy in the name of advocacy are not advocating on a level that is respectful that is honorable and that is in line with where we believe you ought to how you ought to conduct yourself in this chambers. So I I think that we have to revisit this as a reality. I I think that we have to revisit this as a as a standard of how we are going to operate in this in this chamber during the conduct of business of this city and it's not ma a matter of a first amendment right it is a matter of decorum you don't get to come up and do that and you don't get to do it on this side and you don't get to do it on that side I mean it's just it's just simple It's it's just simple. It's it's called class. It's called class. These are dignified. You see you see see. Let me tell you something. As a classroom teacher, there has to be consequences. If you're going to teach, there has to be consequences. If you're going to lead, you cannot allow disorder because you will not achieve your goals. We all have to agree that we're going to be orderly.

That that's it. And and and I don't think that that's that's too much to ask for. I don't think that we ought to be getting up in here yelling and screaming and insulting one another. We're better than that. And there's no rules uh the the Robert's rules of order. It ought to just be our own core standards of who we are. There's so many times I've been places. And you know what they'll say? We don't do that in Miami Gardens. Miami Gardens don't play that. No. When Miami Gardens do this, it's like this. It's a standard. And because you may not like me or I may not like you, it doesn't mean we compromise the standard. We got to be better than that. And everybody needs to be able to say what they want to say, need what, but say it in a way that's respectful and honorable. Don't turn this into a gutter. You don't have the right to do that. You don't you don't have the right to do that. You don't you you don't have the right to to make this a gutter. Imm no. [cough]

No, you don't have that. And you know, as a as a one one last one. One last one.

One last one. You know what I realized when I I because I've been a teacher an educator for 40 years. And in the classroom, if you let two children, maybe just one, they'll tear a whole classroom up and change the whole atmosphere and disrupt the learning that needs to go on in that one classroom. Just one. And what I'm saying is this. Those same children will sit in that classroom and you know what? Some of them will say, "You need to be quiet because they are there to learn. They understand their purpose." So what I'm saying here is that in the city of Miami Gardens, we have advocates who are here to advocate. They're not here to disrupt an environment. They're not here seeking political office. They're not here seeking donations. They are here about the business of this city. That's their concern. But there are those of us here that we've got to check them when they come in and they interrupt our learning. When they interrupt the environment that we're attempting to maintain, otherwise we're not going to be learning. I I don't disagree with you on a lot of things that you said in reference to

you. All right. You need a minute? No. Go ahead. You sure? Yeah. Yeah. I got stuff coming up.

All right. All right. I I don't I don't disagree with you on on some of the things you said. It's about how we were trained, our home training, and all those things. But we are subject to law and we have to follow the law. We can make a plea to our residents that please when you come to public comments, let's conduct ourselves like the standard that you say that we have. But then we have to address ourselves too. and address our and we have to hold ourselves to the standards that we requiring our residents to hold themselves at.

And I think that when we able to come together and do it that way, conversations that need to be had may need to be had with individuals. There need to be some time where residents can reach out, email you, or call you and say, "Hey, I got a problem with this. I got a problem with that. I need to sit down and talk to you." And we need to be able to respond to them and sit down and hear what they have to say. And then what we may have to say, because we get facts and they may not have the facts. So what we may have to say may not be in agreement what they think but the conversation has to and the communication has to remain open cuz when we start looking at it and before it get to a point where it turns into something that's totally out of place I will bring an ordinance to do public comment at another time. We will hear our residents.

I don't have no problem with that. We will hear what they have to say and we will listen to what they have to say. If you need to address an issue during the public comment, ask the permission. I'll give it to you. But we won't go back and forth. We're not going to do that during public comments because we still have business we got to finish. So, are you saying I just want to be clear about this. So, are you saying that a person can get come up to this meeting and say the same thing over and over and over? According to what? According to what our attorney just I just want to know. I just want to know. No, no, no. According to I I can only base this on law, okay?

Because And I'm gonna tell you why. Because I have to be the one that sit in front of judges, okay? I have to be the one, okay, that sit and have depositions done for eight and nine hours. I understand what you're saying about some of the things that I'm only saying to you is that from my standpoint, there are other people who say, "Well, I'll come down there and do A, B, C, and D." And what I'm saying to you is that that contention that's building out there, it you need to kind of say that this is not the place for that. This audience, this is not the place for that.

I'm telling y'all right now, this is not the place. And I'm not going I'm not going to allow that. I'm not going to allow it. And we could get sued every day. I'm not going to allow it. But we got to conduct ourselves. That's it. Decent and in order from both sides. From both sides. It has to be in decent and in order. And the law says that. Well, you know, like and and we we

But you know what? One of the things I want to be clear now because I'm not going to change on this here. When we talk about the law, what we have to do is develop rules and rep and and and regulations that allow us to interpret interpret how we're going to execute the law. See, when you when you begin to talk about a freedom of speech, it doesn't mean crying fire in a crowded room because that's a freedom of speech, but it's also endangerment. And so when we begin to take a look at the decorum under which we are going to operate with the freedom of speech, we've got to have parameters under which people are allowed to come in here and conduct themselves. And so what I'm saying to you, I again, you know, I I'm so serious about this. I really I No, but I'm I'm so serious about this. You know, I don't I don't I don't I don't laugh and joke around when people are talking because I'm serious about this. Th this is this is not funny to me. This is this is real serious to me and it's serious to me on both sides because if I'm if I'm ever at that that podium, I'm going to want people to hear me just like I want to be heard up here.

Absolutely.

I want undivided attention. No, I'm I'm I'm you know, I'm serious. And you know, I don't I don't want no I don't listen, when people are talking to me, I don't take that as a joke. And I don't want anybody to feel that I'm I'm I'm playing around when they're when they're having a conversation with me. Because eventually what we're giving rise to is for you to laugh at all of y'all out here. For me to for me to be able to say, "You're not important. I'll get up and walk out. But if I'm going to sit here, then let's be respectful of each other. Yeah. Uh-huh. I walked out because you know what I didn't want to do? I didn't want to lose it. I didn't want to become disrespectful. So, I said, "Let me take a moment and breathe." But what we are doing is that we are disallowing for the law to be interpreted in a way that disallows what for what it intended to stop. And that is for the decorum of meetings that we have here in this in this in this chamber and for when people come up in here and speak that is done so in a way that's respectful. That's that's it. And I don't think that that's hard.

You just got to want to do it. That's what you asking the public now. No, what I'm asking not only the public, I'm saying all of us. That is a part of the overall enforcement. Yeah. Of the quorum of this chambers that there are certain things that we don't allow. And if you come in and you break that, then you won't be allowed to speak. If you're going to come up in here and name call anybody on in here or anybody out there, you you're not going to be allowed to do that. I mean, it's just it I don't and and I'm having a problem trying to figure out why that's hard. It's hard because the law says they can.

So, they can come up here and call you all out YOUR NAME AND DISRUPT the proceedings. No, that ain't what it says. It says you have a freedom, but you don't have the freedom in this chambers. They if you HAVE THE SO, WHEN YOU GO TO THE SUPREME COURT, WHAT HAPPENS THERE? Do they allow you to conduct yourself there? When you're in the chambers of Congress, do they allow you to conduct yourself there? No. they will escort you off those premises. So when WE START TALKING ABOUT THE FREEDOM of speech, it doesn't incorporate the fact or include the fact that your behavior when it falls beneath the expectation and the guidelines that are said is going to be allowed. Madame attorney, I I pose that question to you.

Well, I heard two different things. I didn't I never said that anybody could come and be disruptive. Dr. Power posed specific questions to me and I answered those. I got asked whether a person can be repetitive and I said yes. That's a different issue than somebody being disruptive and disrupting the meeting. So no, I'm not going to say somebody can come and disrupt the meeting. Nobody from the DES or the audience should be disrupting the meetings. What I'm saying is we have to be careful when we're trying to regulate the actual speech itself. What comes out of your mouth and can they say the same thing at every meeting? And I'm telling you that yes, they can because the law, the first amendment is under the strict scrutiny test. We don't we're not allowed to put limitations. Well, I told you what the limitation is. You can stop it all together. You either get rid of public comment all together or you come in compliance with what the case law actually says. So when a person is disruptive, that's up to the mayor, the chair to be able to remove that person from this chamber

or tell them to stop being disruptive and comply with the rules and you'll be allowed to split. However, the mayor Yes. And understanding disruptive being affecting the flow of the meeting, I'm going to define it because you know what? At the end of the day, Dr. Pow, when you start trying to say what it is, you have to know it when you say. There you go. And so, you know, the I was gonna let the mayor chair the meetings because that's what he's supposed to do. So, so it's up to the mayor to make that determination. See, here here's the point, though.

Go ahead. Thank you, Mayor. I got all my critics. Go ahead.

Which means that I'm going to go for what I believe too, right? And what that means to me is this. I'm not talking singularly about a disruption. I'm talking about the decorum and there's a difference. When you come in here, you ought to come in here carrying yourself in such a way that recognizes that what this chambers is. You don't go into county meetings anymore where they turn the meetings out. People come, they're allowed to speak, they speak, and when they're finished, they sit down. They don't get up insulting the c the the commissioners. They don't get up there, you know, calling them names, calling them liars, insulting them. They don't do that. So the decorum of these hollow chambers requires all of us if we're going TO PARTICIPATE TO AGREE THAT WE'RE going to conduct ourselves in on a way that doesn't offend even other people that doesn't frighten the ordinary citizen from coming in here and wanting to have a moment to talk about whether or not you know you know they power on. Nobody should have to endure that. And and it's not because it is of everyone. It's from a a small group of people and and and and and to me we have to have the courage to say not here. Not here. So if we want to turn this into a town hall meeting where we hear all of the concerns for our residents at that town hall meeting, then have the meeting and remove the comments. You want to just have the comments, then abide by the rules and that's it. But to come in here every week name calling, saying things about people and

it's getting worse. It's getting worse. And it's getting worse. The meetings are becoming and the public comments are becoming less and less respectful, not just of this place, but of other residents who since I've been here have been coming to every single meeting and they [clears throat] call me up and they say, "Councilwoman, I don't want to come anymore because of the vibe that's going on." And there's no reason for that to happen. There's no reason for that. But because we are afraid to tell some people, you can't do that here. That's a problem. I I I go back to running a school. Sometimes it be five kids that'll tear the whole school down. Just five. Tear the whole school, disrupt the whole environment. And then and it's not it's not all of the the kids. And it's not fair to all of the other children who are coming every day to do what it is that they are supposed to do the way they're supposed to do it for them to be penalized because we can't control a a few folks. We've got to stop it. And whatever it it takes for us to be willing to say, you know what, no, we're not going to go there. If we can sit down, whatever the case may be, but we've got to stop it. We we we've got to stop it. We just can't we just can't have it. Anything?

Anything you can say? Y'all got anything? Thank you everyone. I think is there anything else that we No, sir. I think we've accomplished the communications that we needed to have. Thank you so much. Well, where do we go from here?

We We've communicated. We're not going to make any decisions today, but tell me, how does this translate into meaningful action? Because we we've we we've got to have some parameters when we we need to review the parameters of how we have public comments, whether or not we should, you know, what are not just the card that needs to be read, but really examples of how and what you ought to do and say when you come before here. Now, here's a one more thing, mayor. You know, I I say all of the time that wherever I go, there are so many people out there that are proud of this city.

Absolutely. They are proud of the way this city handles business. They are proud of the way people conduct themselves and we need to continue to do that. Absolutely. Especially now that it's televised. It's it's it's it's if if you if it's not

so if you you have any ideas that you want to run by the city clerk and then Mr. Clerk, you can let us know or if anybody on the day have any ideas that they may think the the city attorney gave us options. So, if anybody got any ideas or where do you want to go with that, we can

Here's what I think. Sit down and talk. I think that that's a great point and I think that maybe an even better um addition to that is not only from the dis but also from the community. Let the community have input should they desire and we can put it up at our very next meeting where they can go and make comments about what they think is a better way to improve our public comment process. some of the things that they think ought to be restricted and or allowed because this isn't about singularly a Katrina Wilson issue. This is about people who have contacted me and have said to me things about people that get up and talk. All right. And I don't want to just just, you know, that's that's not my my goal is but but this is a participatory uh city. All right.

Okay. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine with me. All right. Y'all good? All hearts and minds are clear? Yes. All right, Mr. Clerk. 2 minutes and we start this meeting. Okay, mayor. Thank you. All right. Three minutes.