Historic and Environmental Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you you so so Thank you. Thank you. do do

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June meeting of the historic board to order. Let's all stand for the pledge of allegiance.

If you intend to testify in this proceeding, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. You may be seated.

I believe our city attorney has a note to read about lobbyists. You would be so kind.

Any person who is a lobbyist pursuant to Chapter 2, Article 6 of the City Code must register with the city clerk and apply for related city requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the Historic and Environmental Preservation Board. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering. A copy of the code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office online on municode.com. The agenda for this meeting and materials for the items on the agenda were published and made available to the board in advance of the meeting. The materials are also available online at miamigov.com. Please silence all cell phones and other noise-making devices. Any person with a disability requiring assistance, auxiliary aids, or services for this meeting may notify the hearing board's liaison. Any person may be heard by the board through the chair in pursuance to the published notice for not more than two minutes on any proposition before the board unless modified by the chair. When addressing the board, the member of the public must first state his or her name, address and what item will be spoken about. When the board takes action or votes on any proposition, it shall do so by a roll call vote to be recorded and included in the record. Thank you.

Thank you. Can we have a roll call, please?

Yes, just a moment. We also have the chair who will be joining by Zoom. And we also would need to take a vote as to whether He's able to vote via Zoom.

Absolutely. Do we have a motion to allow Dr. Hopper to join by Zoom? So moved. And the second was? Yes. Wonderful. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes.

Calling the roll call. This is Chair William Hopper. He's on Zoom. He's not showing. Calling Vice Chair Luis Prieto y Munoz.

Here.

Calling Member Najeeb Campbell. Calling member Christopher Cawley.

Here.

Thank you. Calling member Elvis Fuentes. Calling member Julie O'Dell. Calling member John Perez.

Here.

Calling member Robert Powers.

Here.

Thank you. Calling member Hugh Ryan.

Here.

Thank you. And calling member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Here.

Okay, we do have quorum. Also, we did have a request for absence waivers from members Najeeb Campbell and Julie O'Dell.

Do we have a motion to accept the absence waivers? So moved. Second?

Yeah.

Thank you. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Moving on, I believe we have minutes for the May meeting to approve. Do we have a motion to approve said minutes?

So moved.

And a second for that motion?

Second.

All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes.

Let's move on to the discussion items. Mr. Colmus? So I have no specific discussion items on the agenda. I do have some monthly updates. Please. And I will try to keep it quite brief. So I just want to bring the attention to the board that the interviews for the principal planner position have concluded, and we are working our way through the applicants for that now. the open position for the principal planner. That posting has closed, and we're in the process of getting ready to schedule those interviews shortly. I did want to let the board know that we had a public meeting with the members of Palm Grove and actually some members of other... historic districts regarding the draft for new guidelines specific to Palm Grove. We had a really good turnout. We had some really great feedback. There was a lot of participation in that. And then I do want to bring attention to the board of the intended decision appeals. I know that there's a lot of concern. There's been a lot of activity. And we do have, we've been working internally to try to address how best to address those appeals as they're coming in. And I do want Savan to discuss that with you.

So we have had an uptick in intended decision appeals during the month of May. We had 14 appeals come in, six were considered timely and complete, meaning they were submitted on time, they were paid, they had all of the correct information in, and so therefore they could be scheduled. This is the third month in a row that we've seen an uptick in those appeals, and so as a result, to make sure that everybody's time is being used as efficiently as possible. We are proposing to have special meetings moving forward for the rest of the year. These will be scheduled, so they'll be on the third Tuesday of every month. And they'll be at 3 p.m., just as your meetings currently are. So the idea is that at the first meeting of each month, we will take on historic preservation items. And then at the second meeting of the month, those will be used for environmental resources and intended decision appeals. If that suits the board, we'll move forward with that and set up those meetings. The calendar, of course, will be published. The agenda will be published in advance of each meeting. If the meeting is not required, of course, we will cancel it.

Thank you. I gather then the board needs to take action to approve the proposed amendment to our calendar? Yes.

So it's they're gonna they're all technically special meetings Because of the way that your rules and procedures are written so there's we don't necessarily need an amendment to the calendar but if you guys would all be in agreement with that then we'll proceed to Move that forward just so that it's set up in advance But they're technically all technically they're special meetings.

Thank you Is there any objection from any of the board members to what's proven proposed? I have a question

By all means, Mr. Trachtenberg. Does it act in the same manner as a regular board meeting in that we have to meet quorum? Yes. So what would that mean in regards to that type of special meeting? Is it half the board members would need to attend?

So you would need the same quorum. The quorum is the same. So you would still need five members to have quorum.

Right, so half of them.

Oh, and I'm sorry. They would start at 5 p.m., not 3 p.m. I'm sorry, 5.30. I can't read my own.

And when would the first one be?

The first one would be in July. And so that would be July. I apologize. July 21st. And then there would not be one in August, so the next one would be then in September.

Any other questions?

Yeah, I have a question. You said start at 5, 5.30? Yes. Okay. I know that we, a couple years ago, had some board business where we decided that there's a cutoff from these meetings. And I know that the tree, these are tree items, all on one day. They go long. The community is passionate about it.

So I guess my question is, how many items would you put on there?

Because if it starts at 5 and it goes till 10, listen, I got a family. And this is the second night of the month. So I'm going to have a problem doing that. And I think other people will, too. And I think out of what we decided as a board, there's a cutoff time.

So can we extend the cutoff time?

And if you wanted to address Mr. Ryan's question first, or I suppose it was more of a discussion, there wasn't really a...

The mumbling question was...

I think your question was whether it was going to be capped on the agenda.

Yeah, how many items? I know you said it varies depending on if there are going to be any or not.

So there is no cut-off time in your rules and procedures. So you would either need to just say, you know, we're going to effectively lose quorum, and therefore we motion to defer all the items to the next meeting on the agenda. So the cut-off time is what you guys make it. So... If, for example, if you're willing to come from 5.30 to 7 and then at 7 we lose quorum, then you would just need to note that at quorum we're going to lose 7 and then typically what we ask is that all the remaining items get deferred. to date certain on the next agenda.

Okay, and following up on that, I mean, I thought we came up with something that said when we hit a certain time, we have to vote as a board if we want to stay or not, which I guess is the thing.

Yeah, that was my recollection as well, Hugh. I think that was after the Playhouse, which went into, I think, past midnight.

Yeah, yeah.

So did our last board meeting go past midnight. I think it was like 10 p.m. last time.

No, we were here almost until midnight. I don't think so, Bob. Well, 11-something. But nonetheless, I would rather have us do all of our board business on one day as opposed to two. It should be an extraordinary circumstance for us to have another board meeting.

I think, if I may, gentlemen, I think the point is that it will be an extraordinary circumstance considering the number of tree appeals.

We will have six intended decision appeals for your July 7th meeting plus whatever have items are scheduled.

Yeah, okay, and on that, are we, because we do a lot of business before we get to the actual items here that kills a lot of time. Are we going to be doing that? Is this going to be strictly jumping into the tree items?

I'm sorry, and just to pin that for one moment, I believe we did amend our procedures per an email I have from Warren Adams in January of 2020. In the February meeting of that same year, we amended our procedure to create a requirement that for the meeting to pass 9 p.m. required a unanimous decision by the board.

Okay.

I'll forward that to you.

I would appreciate that. I will absolutely do that.

I really think that if we can get as much business done in one night, I think it would be better, serve this board better.

I think for the purposes of this initial one, considering we know the volume of the July agenda, we know the volume of the tree appeals, I think the most logical thing is to have the special meeting in July, and let's see how that goes. Very good. I agree.

We've also had things happen before where we have to schedule a special meeting, which is fine, but it's not indefinitely scheduled. for the third Tuesday of the month. It's just this month we're gonna take care of it and see how it goes.

So I do wanna say special meetings are incredibly difficult to set up from multiple perspectives. It's A, incredibly difficult to get quorum. It's incredibly difficult to make sure that we have staff available, not just from our staff, but also in terms of making sure that we have staff for the building and for communications. As well, and so as more consistent and advanced that I can make them, the better off we are in terms of being able to handle those. So that's why we ask for the third Tuesday of the month. And again, if there are no items, we can cancel the meeting. That's not an issue. And then if also we can only, we can set a number. So for example, if there's only more than three intended decisions, we'll use that special meeting if you guys would prefer.

I think considering that we'll have, well, no, because I guess the notice things would require more advance warning than the regular meeting. So let's have the July meeting. Okay. I think that's the most logical thing considering the agenda, and I think we should just move into the public hearing considering the number of items that we have and how many people are present. Great. Thank you. Are there any other updates or discussion items before we move into the public agenda?

Mr. Vice Chair, I have a quick question on that note. If there's an attendance... issue as far as absences for the year, and we just threw in a bunch of second meetings a month, and say I have plans, and I'm not gonna be here. So does that count against my attendance?

Let me suggest that let's take this up after the public agenda, that way we can fully litigate the topic. Any other updates or discussion items, Mr. Kalmas?

I just have a question. For clarity of the record, if we have the intended decision appeal set for July 7th, what will we be hearing on July 21st?

No, the intended decisions would be set for the 21st. We would have the regular agenda on the 7th.

Thank you.

Okay. Any other items, Mr. Comas?

No, sir.

Okay, wonderful. Before we go into the meat of it, there were three points I just wanted to bring up, just procedural clarity items. So the first is on items nine and ten, which are an appeal of the same decision. My question for council is whether we can receive common testimony on both of those items and then proceed to adjudicate item number nine or whether we need consent of both parties to do so, in your opinion.

Regarding that one, you can adjudicate both of them, considering that the tree permit applicant is already withdrawn or is going to, he's actually right over there, council's going to withdraw their application. for the tree permit, items nine and 10 have already been resolved. There's no case of controversy or anything like that.

Then that happily moots my point. So I'll move on to my second. And this is just a procedural item for the rest of the board. Hello.

Yes.

We're here for items 9 and 10.

We're not carrying items 9 and 10 at the moment. We're still dealing with board.

Mr. Cruz, I'll call you over when we move into the public hearing. Let me just finish some procedural items, and then we can have you. Thank you. So we've, under our normal procedures, I don't think there's any restriction as how we've proceeded in terms of the questioning across the board. I think for the sake of the size of this agenda, my preference for this meeting, if you're all amenable to it, would be that if you do have a question for an item, you request the floor through the chair, you'll be recognized. You can go through the entirety of your questionings. The floor is entirely yours. When you've adjourned, we'll move on to any other members that may have questions rather than request comment from every member of the board. Is there any objection to proceeding in that matter? Marvelous. And so we will do it that way. And then my final question was to hearing boards and whether I note that Mr. Elvis Fuentes has missed meetings since November. And I was curious whether there had been any communications from him as to his intended remaining with the board and perhaps he doesn't wish to be a part of the board anymore.

I haven't received anything from Mr. Fuentes.

Okay. I just wonder if there's maybe something from the code or procedures that might have say with this circumstance and whether we need to look into that.

We would need to look into that.

If you'd be so kind to do so between now and the next meeting.

Okay.

Thank you so much. And with that, we can go into the public agenda. Mr. Fuentes, or Mr. Cruz, if you would be so kind.

What was it you were going to say? I think there's the issue of changes to the order of items on the agenda, and there is the issue of items 9 and 10 and them being heard. And there's also a request for a deferral of one item.

Okay, so let's do that. Sorry, Mr. Cruz, if you could wait there for a moment. Mr. Kalmas, the changes to the agenda then, please.

So there's a request for items nine and 10. So start with five. So there's been a request to defer item number five, I believe till the July meeting.

Okay. Is there anybody from the public who wishes to speak on whether, purely on the deferral of item number five? Seeing no one, anybody from the board have an objection or a motion to move the item? Or defer the item, I should say. So moved. Thank you. And a second for that motion?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Item number five is moved to the July agenda. Now, coming to items nine and ten, Mr. Kalmas.

No. At the moment, no.

Yes.

So I will let council address items 9 and 10.

Thank you. For items 9 and 10, I'm advising against taking up those particular items, considering that the matters are being resolved. Because if the tree permit applicant is withdrawing their tree permit and appeals are, so tree applicant isn't going to be removing any trees and appeals are to prevent those trees from being removed.

For an abundance of clarity, Council, if I'm understanding the circumstances, there was an application to remove four specimen-sized mahogany trees from the public right-of-way. That decision was appealed by the Sierra Club and by members of the public. Items 9 and 10 on our agenda represent those appeals. The applicant has withdrawn the permit, therefore that decision has been vacated. Exactly. So those trees will remain in their current state? Exactly. Okay, thank you. So the request then is to remove items 9 and 10 from our agenda?

Correct.

Is there anybody from the public who wishes to speak on our agenda items 9 and 10's removal?

Yes, so I'm glad the trees are going to stay.

Elvis, your name and address for the record.

Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street.

I think we've all memorized your address at this point, but I think just for the purpose of our record.

But you confused me with another Elvis.

I'm sorry, and I'll have a hard time with that internally, but please go on.

Thank you. So while we're very glad that the trees are going to stay, it's important to note that we discovered some troubling information that we wanted the HEP board to know. And we wanted to reveal that with a public hearing and with the appeal. We feel the rug has been pulled out from under us at this late hour. And we're asking that we, meaning the public and the appellant will speak for herself, be allowed to present our information on this free appeal.

Okay, pin that for a moment, because this is an item. So at this point, the item that's being discussed is its removal from our agenda. So because the applicant has vacated or requested that his approval be vacated, there is no longer an appeal in place because the decision has been rendered. So the extent to which we can go through that now, I'm not entirely sure. So we need clarity from staff. Mr. Council, would you opine on this?

Yes, I would advise against going into the details of the appeal, considering that now that the tree permit has been withdrawn, the appeals are moot. So there's no case of controversy for this particular board to actually resolve.

OK. Bob? I think for the purposes of our procedures and remaining within the bounds of a quasi-judicial board, I suggest that any findings you have, you address to us in a letter, and we can take that up as a separate discussion item in its appropriately noticed time. Because this is not what's on the agenda today is the discussion of this. What was here was an appeal, which is no longer in place. because the decision that you wish to overturn has been effectively overturned. So let's keep this in the correct channel. So please direct a letter to us with as much information as you possibly have, and we'll take it up as its own item in a future meeting.

Thank you for that. But that does not resolve the question about refund. These appellants paid a fair amount of money to appear before this board, and now they're being denied the ability to be heard. So we would ask that the board make a motion requesting that the appellants receive a refund.

Or allow me to speak.

Okay.

I paid for an appeal that I came to show up to.

I profoundly appreciate where you're coming from. I will state that you paid to have a decision overturned on the merits of the appeal that you put forward, and that's the outcome that has been rendered. So the justice you sought has been effectively wrought by... not necessarily by the mechanism that you sought, but by circumstance. So I honestly don't know if this is within the remit of this board. I don't think we have say over appellate fees or their reimbursement or charging. I think that falls outside of our duties. Correct.

Reimbursement is defined by the code, and so there are no refunds. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, but my findings have uncovered a lot of information that I think is important for the board, and I'm happy to email you, but I came here today to present to all of you my findings on a developer and a issue with the trees that is pretty important.

Okay, understood. Let me propose the following. If we get through this agenda, which is enormous in a rapid manner, and you wish to remain until the end, we may, if the board will will it, maybe we can have a chat about that following the meeting. It was the last item on the agenda already. So, out of credit to everybody who's here for their own items, who also have busy days, let's move through the public hearing, and at the end of the meeting, if there's still time, we can chat it out.

Okay.

Thank you. Any other changes to the agenda, Mr. Kalmas? At this time, no. Okay. Let's move on to item number one, then, please.

Excuse me. I would just like one comment. Sorry.

I closed that item. Excuse me.

Sorry.

We're moving into the rest of the agenda. Right.

You do need to actually remove the items.

We need to vote to move the items. Do we have a motion to that effect? Items nine and ten.

So moved.

Do we have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. I'm sorry, madam, we've moved on to the public hearing.

Yes, you just did it when I came up.

I know, but we weren't taking testimony.

I wasn't giving testimony. I just wanted an opportunity to speak quickly. I'm not giving testimony on it.

If you wish to wait to the end of the agenda, we will maybe get into that, but there are a lot of items here, and there's a lot of people here who wish to speak, and there's an agenda that we need to follow.

Yes, no, I wasn't giving testimony. I just wanted to reiterate that money was paid.

I'm sorry, we're not hearing that, and that's beyond the remit of this board. I appreciate profoundly what you wish to do, but we can't hear that right now.

All right, thank you. Thank you.

Item number one, please.

A resolution, I'm sorry, HIP item number one, file ID 19025, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to section 23-6.2 subsection B4 of the City Code of Ordinances approving or denying a special certificate of appropriateness to permit a new construction of a single family structure on a vacant lot within the Bayside Historic District located approximately at 8 I'm sorry, at 765 Northeast 70th Street, Miami, Florida, 33138, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings.

Thank you. Is the applicant present? Thank you. Please come forward and give us your name and address.

Gabriel Chavarria. I'm the architect of record of the project. I need to address. It's 240... Crandon Boulevard, Suite 234, Key Biscayne.

And you have power of attorney from the owner?

I did in the past. I mean, the previous meeting, I did sign that. Do you need to sign it again?

I don't know. If it's already on the record, it's probably fine. Then good. Let's proceed with the staff report.

Adrian Espinosa, Valdor, Store Preservation Planner. I request the staff analysis be accepted into the record. Please. Please, thank you. Can we switch this? Just waiting for that presentation. Can we switch the monitors by chance? Well, so this is the second time this application has been here to the board.

Sorry to interrupt. Is there any way they can put it on this screen as well, so that we don't have to run around?

I can put something here.

OK. I think they just did it. Thank you. They just did it.

Yeah, it's not on me.

No, we have it. It just popped up. Thank you.

OK, great. So yep, second time this has been before the board. It was first here in April, deferred. Just kind of run off the quick questions or the what the board So you had all asked for the applicant to restudy the scale and massing of the structure Consider the wall plane offsets to reduce massing Restudy the roof pitch and form study architectural features from mid-century designs Consider increasing the horizontal nature of the building using intersecting vertical lines to break up the massing. You also asked that they restudy the materiality of the building so it was more contextual to the neighborhood. And finally, you asked for a full set of landscape Drawings delineating the trees and which ones were going to be removed out of those seven we counted only three were met effectively and so Kind of continue on we can see the changes made to the application That's what it looks like. So this is the previous rendering. Then we have the new rendering there. So fairly obvious design changes were shortening of the windows, creating more horizontal lines across the facade there. Got that clear story on the second floor from wood paneling to brick around the edge on the second floor. But again, no change to the roof line there. So the materials are essentially the same except for the brick. Here we have the previous proposed elevations and current There's a landscape plan on the left. Those are the existing trees that will be removed. So that would be three, number two, number one, and then you've got a grouping of palm trees, number four, just past the current driveway. So again, as only three of those recommendations were met, we're recommending denial.

Thank you, Adrian. I imagine you disagree with the staff report.

Yes. Thank you to listen as the in the past meeting, you asked me very kindly to decide how many days we need. And we asked you 60 days. Unfortunately, things didn't play that way. Because the staff needs stuff one month, they all the plans one month in advance. And because the dates, we only have a few weeks to finalize everything. In addition to that, you suggest to contact the neighbors' associations. We didn't have the time physically to keep in touch with them. So everything happens pretty much after we have the submittal. We evolve the project a little bit more. We talk with the neighbors' associations, which they are here also. And we believe that we are evolving the project in the good direction, in the right direction. improving a lot. We have something to show you. So this is pretty much the status. So what you have there is not what really have been evolved with the neighbors and the addressing of the... Let me ask you this, sir.

So it sounds like the plan is not complete at the moment.

The floor plan and the building itself didn't change. It's the same floor plan. We're talking about the static things that are changing and modifying according to discussions with the neighbors and based on the design directions that you gave.

So just for clarity, before we go into public comments, just to make sure we're all aligned, you do want a decision tonight. You're not asking for a further deferral.

Well, the best case scenario, I'm considering a few things. You're busy with a lot of items in agenda. So we believe that the staff, because it's not really big things, And the neighbors can agree with that and have an approval with conditions to be working out those things. And I can show you what the directions that the project is taking. So you can have some peace of mind in that.

Let's hear it then. Thank you. So we'll go through the public comment and then... Well, actually, would you like to present the project in its current state and then we can have the public comments? Do you want to go through the current status of the project?

I mean, I can. Yes, absolutely. I can. I'm not sure if you can...

So once you're plugged in, communication should be able to... I thought it worked.

So what you have right now, I'm sorry, this is the latest design that we're working with. Let me see if I can open this up. The design changed the slope of the roof, the direction of the horizontal bonding. As you see, the house doesn't change. a lot the setbacks on the plan. I mean, the rooms remains the same. But in our opinion, and I believe in the opinion of the neighbors as well, has improvements that can help going in the right direction.

Okay, so just for clarity, the scale is identical to what was presented in the previous meeting and in their current set. Thank you.

Yes.

Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item? Please give your name and address before you speak.

Good afternoon. My name is Shane Graber. I'm the historic and architectural chair of the Bayside Residents Association. It's been a while since I've seen a lot of you. First of all, I just want to say, unfortunately, the applicant was given the wrong contacts for the neighborhood association months ago when making his first designs. And I just happened to get this time, but not last time from the city, a notice in my mailbox about this meeting. So we were able to reach out to him directly to try to figure out why he hadn't reached out to us before. I'm never not surprised when the city gives inaccurate information, but to their credit, I think we should have had this conversation three or four months ago. So basically, we were not impressed, obviously, with the initial design that was submitted for today. To the credit of the applicant, they very quickly for the past few weeks have been very involved in conversations, meetings, Zoom calls with the neighborhood, taking in our recommendations. By the way, so you'll see the page that has three different versions. You'll see the initial application for today, where the applicant is now, and then where the neighborhood would like them to go, a little bit to the right. But the biggest concerns for us based upon what was submitted today is that we wanted a stronger mid-century modern feel for the house to not feel so boxy. More horizontality since there is a second story adding you know more of a horizontal feel the roof design going from a smaller I think I heard somebody call it a beret at one point to sort of a longer sloped roof design, less perceived mass in box, simpler vernacular facade, stucco coral wood accents, which are common in the area. I know slim stone brick was used last time. More cohesive architecture. And look, the goal here is very simple. Although we've had things that have been approved that not everyone is thrilled with, we want to really make sure in the handful of lots that we have yet to be redeveloped or developed within the historic district, we want spectacular architecture that's not only appropriate, But that should be only in Bayside. You should know that this is a home that really belongs here. We had a few suggestions that the applicant just couldn't continue to work on for today, which was to attempt to recess the second floor a bit more to reduce the bulkiness. The roof, we really feel that the roof can be a dramatic part of the architecture that makes this a statement home, whether it's elongating the overhangs or cantilevering it more. We're jutting it further to the east on the right side. Obviously material refinement on the second floor. Horizontal band that you see between first and second floor. We'd like it to be punctuated or at the same line going out to further reinforce the horizontality. And then also to make the carport more of an architectural feature and not just a place to park a car, but somehow maybe have that roof extended there or cantilevered more. We actually are very appreciative. It's rare that somebody that we reach out to is actually responsive listens and actually takes into consideration the neighborhood we really appreciate it I think that it's unfortunate that this has been delayed because they were given the incorrect information for the neighborhood association last time we would have been much more involved before and this is a rare case that we would actually recommend not denial and not deferral but based upon where the applicant is now and their direction they're going we would recommend approval with condition that applicant work with staff to be able to finalize the direction that they're in right now. Otherwise, I mean, you're going to be September, and we don't want to be seen as obstructionists from the association. We try to work positively and cooperatively with neighbors who want to redo their homes, with people who are building new, and that would be our respectful request.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to speak on this item? Seeing no one, I will close the public comments and open to the board for questions.

Sir, may I have a copy of the document that was provided to the board members?

Okay, anybody? Not all at once? I don't feel like you have to, Bob.

I have a question.

Yeah, so we'll recognize you, John, go through all the questions you'd like.

Well, but I don't quite have them all formulated, but I guess my question would be, I don't know if you've had a chance to look at their request versus your design. Have you had a chance?

I think they sent me something by email. Again, this was in the couple of days, in this last couple of days, we didn't have time to address this. We have other presentation also at the end of this meeting as well, so.

Okay, that was just, it seems like a lot of features, at least graphically, it seems like they're very similar.

As you see, it's not very far away. I mean, we are really close to get this done.

First of all, I want to congratulate you. This is a much better design than the one that you had previously. So I definitely want to recognize that. As much as I may critique something that I don't think is very nice, I also like to point out that this is much nicer. Thank you.

Yeah, okay.

These are maybe more personal aesthetics. Did you consider bringing the coral all the way up to the actual roof eave instead of cutting it into kind of a triangle?

We were exploring many, many other options as well, including not using the round rocks, more rectangular ones, the same type of rock that you see in historic houses, but We were exploring other options. In addition to that, let me say that I'm not only talking with them, I'm also trying to educate our team and myself on the historic South Florida architecture. We talked with a professor of the University of Miami who teaches history, and he also has a book about the... Let me see how is his name. It's... Victor Leupy. Maybe you know him. He's a professor in University of Miami. He was very, very helpful with us. He suggested books, and we have some books to investigate. And he also suggests some, for example, the Louvers is something that he tried to encourage us to put. He was very, very helpful. So those kind of things are going parallel. I'm sure we're going to get an agreement very soon, and we're going to get the best design possible that everybody can be happy with that.

Okay, I just wanted to point out some of these elements. It's very nice that you opened up, you know, there's a lot more administration, a lot more glazing facing the street. I realize some people get a little bit nervous with, you know, visibility, but mid-century modern is obviously very open, so that's nice. I like the ribbon window that you put on the corner. That's also a very nice feature. I guess one thing that I would like to point out, and actually I agree with, I think, this this design rendition, for you to consider connecting the entire element in the center, connecting it as one band on the same plane, whether it means, I'm assuming you don't want to push it in because you must have, there's a cover for the carport, but maybe bringing it out, I understand there are cost considerations, but I think it might look nice to just really accentuate that horizontal nature. And that That breaks up what previously, I guess, I didn't like so much where it felt vertical at this point, definitely the extension of the pitch roof going all the way over to the right-hand side. That's a big improvement. But I would, I guess, urge you to consider making one uniform horizontal band on the second floor to really kind of break this up into two volumes.

That's a possibility, yes. Explain then also that it's not only a design issue, it's also a code issue. So we need to play with the zoning and the maximum overhangs and things like that so it doesn't count toward the maximum area that we can build. So those things are in motion right now.

Got it. I mean, the code allows up to three... Actually, in the front, I think up to three feet of overhang without cutting towards the lot occupancy. In the back and on the sides, it's usually up to seven feet cantilevered. So I'm hoping you might be able to work with that. I think one of the points that was brought up by, I think, the Neighborhood Association is pushing things back. I guess I would urge them to be a little bit more clear as to, a bit more, to explain a little further what they want, because sometimes pushing back means asking the applicant and the owner eventually to lose some of their usable space. And as I've said before, here on this board, I have a hard time asking an applicant to reduce space space that they're legally allowed to use so if they could elaborate a little bit more to the architect you know it doesn't have to be here as to what they mean by this so that he may be able to find a solution that doesn't again affect the use of the rightful use of this property for the owner but there's other ways sometimes to get the same effect that you feel a little bit in the back but it's not actually reducing I mean this is a master bedroom in the back of this wall so I want to be

very cautious to not reducing a lot, but maybe there's ways to try to play with that.

I think extending the front volume further would give the same effect. I mean, if you basically, you pull versus pushing, it's the same exact effect and you don't lose the use of your I realize it's a very restrictive, what I call as an architect, the playground that you can play within is kind of a small box. So I understand the challenges that you're going through, but this looks a lot better.

I have a question.

Thank you. Mr. Powers, you recognize?

Yes, thank you. I actually think that the, if you look all the way to the far right, I actually think the larger windows there, that's the stairwell, is that not correct?

Yes, on the very right, it's a stairwell.

Now, on top of that stairwell, at the roof level, you have railings up there. Are you going to activate a flat roof in the back?

It is a portion of the roof.

All right, that's what I wanted to know. Okay, that's fine by me. Now, let me ask you another question. That's the master suite on the second floor, is that not correct?

It's in the right front, so the big window is the master bedroom. And the small window, it's the closet. We're trying to use a small window there.

Yeah, I get that. Now, let me ask you a question. Is that all a patio up there, a usable patio area?

In the top?

On the second floor, where all the plant material is planted, is that a patio area?

On top of the parking?

Yes.

No, no, it's a trellis. It's a flat roof. It's a trellis, not even a flat roof. It's a trellis.

Oh, it's a trellis.

Yes. Maybe you see this in a...

I'm only seeing this, sir. I'm only seeing what they're showing me here. I mean, I still think you guys should give us paper shit so we can see it, because even on the computer, you don't see it. So, at any rate, I'm just asking questions. So the car is parked underneath a trellis, not underneath a roof.

Not underneath a roof, yes.

Okay, and all the way to the far left, the west side of the property. Is that a roof there, too, or is that a trellis as well?

The left side, it's a planter area. There's no terrace.

On the second floor.

The second floor. It's a terrace area. I'm sorry, it's a planter area.

It's a big planter, the whole thing. It's a big planter. On the second floor.

It sounds bigger than it is. It's not that big. It's a rectangular L-shaped. L-shaped planter that goes a little bit to the back because that's the master bathroom.

Okay.

All right.

Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bowers. Mr. Ryan?

Just a couple of questions. I like the evolution of this. I wasn't here, I think, the first time. It was brought to us, but what was on our agenda and what's in the HEPSA middle, the work in progress is much better. The one that they're suggesting seems good. The stone itself, is that a lytic limestone? The native rock? Okay. Because in the artistic rendition, it looks like some sort of slate, but it's kind of hard. it's a tiny little picture, so if you're doing a little climb so that's that's all I need to know the other thing is just for practicality. You know people buy cheap metal things for their single car driveway and canvas in order to protect the car when does that have to be a try, I mean this is for your sake, I mean I figured to cover the car. Wouldn't that make sense? I mean, there's a lot of money being spent on having it open to the weather.

The issue here is this is a small lot, and the occupancy factor for the zoning point of view, it's very limited. So we need to create an area that they can park on the shadow of the car, but not use... interior area, so this is a small lot, this is 5,000 square foot. We're using almost 40% of the area for green area.

No, that's fine.

I mean, I understand that. If it's a code issue, I get it, but if I were to buy a house and I'd want, I mean, you know, I'd want my car covered, but you got to work that out. Maybe they'll put a piece of metal after it sells. All right, that's all I got to say about that.

Mr. Trachtenberg. Yeah, so I I wasn't here the last time. It's definitely an unconventional or atypical process of how we approve or deny applications, because we would have time to look, investigate, and understand what we're going to talk about before we come in here. Because right now, at this point, it's kind of like a little bit of a blind site, because I was actually in here. I came in here today ready to deny it based on what was in my package. That was my first time actually seeing it. But I will say that based on the neighborhood association's update and the evolution of what is in front of us today, it's definitely a huge improvement. I will say that what I'm seeing in front of me that was given to us by the Bayside Historic Association, these are AI renderings, and they're a bit skewed. So it's a bit misleading from what I'm seeing.

I'm sorry, say it again.

These are AI. I'm assuming these are AI-generated renderings.

Mines are not.

No, what I'm saying is that we're all... Wait, wait, wait.

Through the chair.

Let me clarify.

Sorry, sorry. Sorry, this is a public hearing. There's a process. Mr. Comus? Okay, yes, sorry.

Everybody settle down. AI always tweaks people out. But what I wanted to say is I understand what you're showing is different than what's in front of us. And I want to make that clear to everybody on the dais today that what you're looking at in front of you, which you all seem to be looking at in front of you, is not what is proportionately being presented. The end image is skewed. It's wider, it looks longer because it's actually a wider perspective. So that's not what the actual picture or rendering we should be seeing based on the application today.

It's true, AI changed a little bit. Yes. But I want to mention that we don't present in this board ever renders from AI. We use SketchUp, we model these homes and we focus on trying to make a realistic...

I want to make it clear, I'm not putting down AI renderings because they can be very accurate. What I'm saying in front of us today is not. So we're looking at your plans. I think what we can extract from what was provided today by the homeowners association, if we all can just look at it with a lens that this is not what we're approving, we're approving the ideas that are represented in these images, if we approve, I should say. One of them being that horizontal bar, which is suggested in your renderings, but it's not a complete, seamless horizontal bar. I think that's a very helpful design position to take for us, so that it does create that mid-century, what's being promised in this AI rendering, as close as it can possibly be within your design intent. Do you agree with that horizontal bar that's continuous? That idea?

I'm not opposed to that. This project is evolving. We're making changes.

Yeah, I understand it's evolving.

And I think it's going to go in the direction that we...

I'm just going through a quick little session. It seems like you're in agreement with it.

Perfect.

The idea of the whole horizontal bar possibly, I guess, excluding the canopy of the car being a planter. that runs across the whole linear nature of the facade. Secondly, I'd like to highlight the concept around the ulytic limestone that you're using, or you're suggesting in your renderings. I personally like ulytic limestone when it's used as a, and I understand it's just a facade technique, but it's used as an actual way of grounding the building, and then that language is continued up. That is not just a piecemeal of of facade language that you just kind of copy paste. Stone has a weight to it, and I think if it's used in a way that's sort of a facade, kind of like a, just a way of covering a facade and not actually supplying a mask to the facade, then I think it's alluding to a little bit of an abstraction of what the material is. So for instance, the stone that's kind of floating there on the second story around what I believe is her closet, to me it feels a little awkward because it stops and then it floats above. If there's a way to either remove that and shift that kind of stone language to something that continues down to the ground floor, I would think that would help.

Yeah, the left side has that condition.

Can we go to the other renderings? I think you have a perspective of that rendering that shows that, that looks like it's...

This one?

Actually, just leave it there for a second, before actually, because it's a great example. Go back one. I'm not sure which one are you referring to. Not this one, the one that you just had before, from the other side. Yeah, so you see here how the stone is wrapping, and then it's also coming down. It's creating like an architectural mass. That's what I want. That's what I'm referring to. Now, when you go to the other side, which is a good example of what it doesn't do that. Here, that's right there. Yeah, that stone is now floating. I'd rather see the one on the ground. Stay where it is. Maybe that vertical line comes up. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know. But if you just remove that one that wraps, I think we'll create a much... You understand what I'm saying? Yeah.

No, this is a game of trying things, different things, and looking at that.

I think that's more of a general principle. Yeah, okay. Again, this is all happening live right now, so there's been no preparation for this conversation. But I will say that, have you contemplated the idea of a cantilever of the parking? Because that will elongate that horizontality, and it will prevent you from having to count, I believe, count that as coverage on your lot. Because you're not going to have a way of framing in that.

Yeah, I would love to that. I mean, the columns is not something that we are trying to put a lot. I mean, it's something that more required. But what we can explore is to try to set back a little bit more the column, trying to get it away from the front so we have an horizontal floating So that's something. The column is already set back. Not really enough maybe to be able to disappear there, but the idea is to have the column set back from the edge.

Yeah, but I just think it's worth an exploration so that you can also cover that garage.

We can, yeah. I mean, we can move it back. All depends of structure.

Okay, that's all I have at the moment, because this is all, I guess, happening live, but I will pass it off to...

Thank you, Mr. Trachtenberg. Anybody else wish to add comments? Mr. Bowers, floor is yours.

All right, so now that I have more of a thing on this and I've listened to Mr. Trachtenberg speak, the thing I never, I can always tell when somebody's designing something who doesn't live here or doesn't live there. The bottom line is the west side of the house is the hottest side of the house.

The west side of the house is the hottest side of the house.

okay so I would tell you to flip the upstairs and put the closet on the west side and put the bed against the east side that's number one so then you also address his his stone thing because then the mass of this stone would be on the west side of the house instead of the east side of the house and that would be where your closet was because the west side of the house is always the hottest side of the house in this in Florida then You follow what I'm saying to you?

You mean flip the closet with the bedroom so the bedroom is on the right side?

Just take the closet and put it on the west side and take that whole massing and move it to the west side and then do your east side how you have the west side presently. Alright? So it would be you just flip it and then what you would do is you would address his issue about all of that stonework being on the far east side and looking like it's floating. Not only that, the other thing is that your closet would then be on the west side. Who cares if the clothes get hot? Nobody cares about that.

When you said to the west side means that inside the opening that we have in front of the bathroom?

Well, I don't know what it is on the inside because you haven't built it yet.

Bob, could I pause you for one second? I think for the purposes of this agenda, let's keep this germane to the exterior street visible things, the interior floor plans and material.

And I agree with him that that should be Well, I mean, part of it is addressing the massing of this big wall that's up there on the second floor. That's all I'm saying. It goes all the way across.

Bob, pause for a second. My point is, if you feel like there's something that you're seeing here that you wish for him to change, say that. Don't worry about what's happening inside. Let them worry about that. Focus on the historicity and the context.

I agree with you. Thank you. I agree that it should be flipped over to the other side, and I also believe that... all of that, there should be one line all the way across the front. I wouldn't break it up and break it back. And I would also say that perhaps you should bring that front part out so that you have more room underneath where you're going to park your car, if you can do that. I don't know whether you can do that.

I maybe misunderstood the previous comment from Mr. Jordan. You said that you don't like the idea to have A stone that ends there and not go to the ground, right? That's the concept. My understanding of your comment is because the materiality of the wall itself, not because it's there. I mean, am I correct? Or you are talking about removing entirely there and put a window?

Right. I mean, the intention of my comment was to be honest, the material. Correct. Right. Not so much about the matter.

No, I agree with that. I think it's, It's unnecessary to make that big change because it's not going to help that much. We remove the stone and it's going to get the same result.

Bob, the floor is still yours. You're good. Mr. Perez.

Just an idea, kind of building upon that. I mean I see here that obviously you want to have I think it's an 18 foot six of clear opening between the column and the wall that's basically left of the actual entry. I mean it, could you consider bringing that volume down, you know the volume that's that's on the second floor down in the form of some sort of an elongated column. to use the stone, I guess, or somehow continue it downwards and then either have the corner floating cantilevered, or if I understand it might be complicated, using some sort of a round steel column painted black so that it looks like it's just giving the effect of it floating.

I think...

I have an issue with, you know, it almost feels like this column that's on the right-hand side, this covered in stone, should be directly underneath that volume on the second floor. It's almost, and I understand this is the intent of modern architecture, it's making me feel uncomfortable. The fact that such a mass is on the second floor and it's actually, that horizontal element feels like it's actually strained under the weight. Yeah, I see what you mean. And it's accentuated by the use of the stone that you mentioned. So maybe that's just what I would recommend to maybe line up some of the, not just visually, but maybe even structurally it might help you.

I personally like the idea to have an uneven space that you walk inside the house and you have on your left side a wall that has entirely in stone and And it's an open space. I like the idea. But from the perspective of stepping back a little bit, maybe you feel that it's something necessary there to put that weight down, right?

Yeah, perhaps. I guess it would be either to remove the stone from that corner on the second floor to give it some lightness and maybe even cover it with the wood or some of these wood slats that you're using to make it feel a little bit lighter. Or... to ground that volume downwards with a stone wall or some sort of a column that would separate the carport and the walkway. That would basically be my recommendation, either or, because I certainly like the feeling of stone when you're walking up to a house. I definitely like that. And I'm not even suggesting that be removed. It's just in addition, on the right hand side, have an element that brings the stone, if you choose to keep the stone on the second floor, to bring it down so that it feels like it's being supported.

My personal opinion, and this can go or go in another direction later, but my personal opinion, removing the stone, I think is going to be, it's going to give a lighter second floor, so it's not going to feel that heavy floating on nothing. I think it's going to help. From the perspective of the entrance, having a column, I know that it's not a really wide, wide area. It's going to be a little bit narrow to the entrance. That's the feeling from the person who steps in the house. Maybe on the design and the concept it's good, but the reality, it's a little bit short. But, I mean, we can explore that. I mean, that's Yeah, I understand.

I guess that's why I was trying to give, like, the two options, either or, and I'm not here to tell you exactly how to design it, just ideas as to how perhaps some of the concerns could be balanced out.

Thank you, Mr. Perez. Anyone else? Okay. Do we have a motion? Do we have any sense of, I mean, I think there's quite a bit of feedback there. I think, John, you do have a motion?

I mean... I feel bad doing this to you, but I think this needs to be denied, and then the full set of drawings... Deferred, I imagine. Sorry, I apologize. Deferred, and have the full set of drawings come to us, especially because last time we discussed, actually, and Mr. Colley brought up that we should have a full set of landscape drawings, which is something that even in the new set, I don't think we were presented. So I think it's going in the right direction, but I think... the whole design needs to be brought again to us. I don't know how the board feels about that.

Is that a motion? Sorry, is this a lack of information on the floor plans? The floor plans remain the same.

Yeah, well, in the comments on the last, on the recommendation, or the comments on the last meeting had to do with us having full landscape plans, which I don't think we have. We have, yes. We do?

Yeah, yeah, that's what he saw. He showed that. It's all included. I mean, the only, in my opinion, the floor plan didn't change. The things are more aesthetics, and nothing changed in the floor plan. The zoning remains the same, and the landscape plan are fully complete. By the way, we didn't put the trees on front of this, because it's not going to be able to see anything. We have four trees in the front, so it's impossible to see the house. But the trees are shown on the landscape plan that you have on the records. And those are the right ones. I mean, this is not something that I'm showing now. They have the right landscape plans.

Through the chair, if I may. Yes, please. Staff would also prefer the deferral of the application so the applicant can further incorporate the comments and recommendations that you've made at today's meeting, and also so that we can see a full set of drawings. I think that it's incredibly hard to make recommendations based off of either one colored front elevation or based off of an AI or rendering. The preference is to make recommendations from line drawings, essentially, and to have all four elevations to make sure that we can see how those recommendations are being incorporated. So staff would prefer the deferral as well.

Thank you, Ms. Tyner. So on that basis, and I think just to elaborate on what Mr. Perez said, I think the point is not that there are certain plans in here. I think the point is that he feels uncomfortable, and I gather that that might be the... will of the rest of the board with the amount of feedback that you just got now from a design standpoint in a completely narrative and non-illustrative way. There is a lot of room for interpretation. You have to interpret it. Staff has to interpret it as in the will of the board. And there's just too much room for error. So it would seem that Mr. Perez's intent for a motion of deferral echoes the staff's sentiment. Is that a motion? Second.

Motion to defer.

Yes, second.

Sorry, one question. To clarify, deferral means July, could be?

Well, I think to your own preamble to this meeting, the last time we deferred it, you realize that things are very, very quick moving here and it's very difficult for you to provide the documentation in time for that meeting. So realistically, if we deferred to the July meeting, I think you would have until the end of this week to provide absolutely everything. So that's just unrealistic. I think it would be the September meeting at the soonest.

That will be September 1st?

If you say so. understand okay and since this madam was for a question for counsel because this item was deferred once before the applicant has already waived their 60-day rights so they don't need to waive it a second time correct correct okay thank you there's a motion and it's been seconded I would ask that we have a roll call vote please thank you calling member I'm sorry calling member John Perez

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Robert Powers.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Christopher Cauley.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Hugh Ryan. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg. Yeah. Thank you. And calling Vice Chair Louis Prieto-Imuñoz.

Yes. And don't forget, I think Dr. Hopper is here virtually.

Yes. And also calling Chair Dr. Hopper.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you. That passes by a vote of seven to zero.

Thank you so much. We will see you in September. Actually, I guess we'll see you in one of these coming up items, won't we? See you in item number eight. All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

Item number two, if you please.

Yes. Also, may we close the online public comment?

Please do.

Thank you. Calling help item number two, file ID 19028, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to section 23-4 of the City Code of Ordinances approving or denying a preliminary evaluation for the rescission of designation of the individually designated site known as the Little Havana House located at approximately 1016 Southwest 13th Court, Miami, Florida 33135, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings.

You ready? It's the applicant press. The applicant is indeed present. Adrian, go ahead with the staff report.

Adrian Espinosa-Vallor, Historic Preservation Officer. Oops, not officer. Sorry. Planner. You're getting a bit big for your britches here, Adrian. It just rolls off the tongue better. No, no, no, thank you. That's on the record. I'm all right. All right. We don't have one of those live buttons every seven seconds. So I request that the staff analysis be accepted into the record.

Please proceed.

Thank you, so just a quick recap. On April 7th, the HEP Board deferred this preliminary evaluation for the rescission of designation of the Little Havana House, and the Board requested that the applicant present an updated plans for redevelopment on the site that more appropriately referenced the Little Havana House. So here we've got the location and the street view, current street view. That's what the home used to look like. So here's a timeline of events. You may remember one through six. Off to number seven, I just mentioned it. So it was heard in April, and they were asked to come back with a more appropriate redevelopment plan.

Sorry. Sorry.

Oh, who caught a glimpse?

There it is.

So the initial redevelopment plan is there on the left. And after working with staff, the applicant provided everything there on the right. So we are recommending approval with conditions. So basically the condition is that after the final approval of this application, the owner will have successfully proffered a covenant to construct the duplex as presented to the Historic Preservation Board at its preliminary evaluation hearing today, June 2nd, 2026, to, in this case, and in the exercise of its authority pursuant to Chapter 23-6, H-2A and B, the Historic Preservation Board shall, upon acceptance of the covenant described herein, expressly waive and forego the application of the presumption limiting replacement structures to the same height, massing, and square footage, and to any requirements to reconstruct the same structure in its original historic form. Three, in lieu of such requirements, the board shall permit construction of the proposed duplex as presented at the June 2nd, 2026 preliminary hearing, provided that the board finds that the proposed structure is consistent with the context and character of the immediate area. Four, the covenant shall run with the land and shall be enforceable by the city, and failure to construct the duplex in substantial accordance with the approved plan shall result in the reinstatement of all applicable requirements under Chapter 23-6 included, but not limited to reconstruction and development limitations set forth therein.

Thank you. Do you have anything you wish to add to the staff report?

Yes, we do. Good afternoon. My name is Bob Della Fuente with Law Offices at 1200 Brickle Avenue. Thank you for the opportunity to come back and show you what we have done in the last two months since we were last before you. So with me today is Hassan Kimyavi, who is the owner of the property. A reminder that this is a de-designation request stemming from the specific circumstances that my client found himself in. He did not cause the destruction of the historic house. He was an innocent purchaser and only in permitting did he discover that this was a historic site. I would point out to this board that the historic designation of this site was not actually recorded in the Miami-Dade County public records. This is something that I have reviewed with the city attorney The ordinance, as you know, requires that the Miami-Dade County Clerk be notified of designations. And this, for whatever reason, did not occur here. So it is not something that was recorded in the public records. So had this been done, it would have showed up in the title work, and we wouldn't be here today in the situation. Because, as I said, Mr. Kimiyabe only discovered the historic designation once he was in for permitting. So with all that being said, we are here, hopefully, to find a solution which is acceptable to the board. and one that was arrived at after extensive meetings with staff. On the last meeting, the direction from this board was clear. You all said to incorporate design elements inspired by the original house. So with that challenge and with that task, my client will walk you through his process. And we had two extensive meetings with staff to get to where we are today. And we think that based on the recommendation from staff that this was a successful exercise, and we hope that you will agree. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Kimiyavi, and he'll walk you through the process.

Mr. Delfonte, sorry, before you go away, do you have any objections to the four conditions that staff has in the report? No. Okay, thank you. Please proceed.

Good afternoon. Sasan Kimiyavi. My residence is at 4751 North Bay Road, Miami Beach, and I own this property. So we created a presentation today to walk everybody over the process that we went through with the historic staff after the comments that you all have made in our previous meeting on April 7, so that we could make alterations to the proposed project. The summary of the events are as follows. On April 7, we had our initial meeting with the HEPB. The applications were discussed extensively with board members, and it was agreed that we would work with the HEP staff to redesign the house and incorporate elements of the historic home. At that meeting, we said that we would come back on June 2nd, and that's why we are here today. So on April 8th to 19th, we worked with our architects to study the historic property and identify architectural elements of the historic property that could be incorporated into a new proposed design of the duplex at the location. We actually consulted Mr. Kalmes and Mr. Espinoza about that as well. On April 20th, we had our first meeting with the HCP staff. We came back with four design alternatives, and those design alternatives were extensively discussed in that meeting. And one design alternative was selected by the HEP staff and promoted for further refinement based on the discussions with the staff. We went back April 21st to 23rd. We worked with the architects to refine the design further. And on April 24th, we met again with the HEP staff, Mr. Camerson and Mr. Espinoza. And we had two variations of the design that they had selected previously that we worked on further. And out of those two designs, they selected one of the designs which is being presented here today for the final design that we have in mind. Any questions about this so far?

Just sorry for your reference. We won't ask questions at this stage. We'll come back to that. So just go through your whole presentation. Don't feel the need to pause for questions.

No problem. So we found that about the historic designation of this property when our permit the process number is listed there was in process so we had no idea that this was a historic property and We found out about this about two years ago So it's been about two years that we we've been trying to figure out what to do about this What you see in front of you is the design that we had proposed and was is in our permit application with that process number You all looked at this and you didn't like it much I have to admit Now that we've gone through this exercise with the HEP staff and the comments that were made, I think that we've come up with a product that I'm personally very pleased with. I think it's a much better design over what you see in front of you. And by the way, right across from this property, there is a duplex that's being built, which is a modern duplex. It's very much similar to this and an offshoot of this design. So this particular property is not in the historic district. It's just a historically designated property. So the Little Havana House, as you can see, we kind of worked with the staff and we identified elements such as pillars, capitals, railings, shutters, siding material, windows and doors. We divided lights and we focused on incorporating those elements into the design of the project. In the April 20th meeting that we had with the staff, we presented four designs. This was option one. And as you can see, we have railings. We have pillars, and we have capitals, and we have other elements that we have there. We have things that designate shutters. They're not exactly shutters, but they kind of look like that. This is option one of the design. There's an option two. That's very similar, except that the colors are slightly different. And I think the HEP staff mentioned to us that colors are of no significance when you propose a new design. Here's option three with changes to the colors and changes to the railings and also changes to the railings in front of the sidewalk that mimics the elements of the little Havana houses railings. And then we have a fourth alternative, which included and incorporated arches on the lower level. And we had some elements, which are shutters, that are on the top floor, which basically were borrowed for the final proposed designs. So we took these four designs, we talked about them with HEP staff, and we came up with certain design changes in that meeting. So just some examples. They asked us to remove the stone from the first row of the front elevation and just use white cement siding on the front elevation to mimic the front elevation of Little Havana House and reduce massing. We removed stone and horizontal fencing on the front of the property by the sidewalk. Instead, we mimicked what's on the Little Havana House, which are just stucco walls that are pretty simple. We added railings to the roof deck parapet instead of a solid stucco parapet to reduce the massing of the front elevation significantly. We used rectangular French doors. We divided lights on the second floor front balconies instead of sliding glass doors. We added horizontal divided lights to all glass windows and doors on the front elevation. We kept the shutters at the center on the second floor to mimic shutters on the little Havana house. Changed the garage doors to mimic shutters on the second floor and also shutters on the little Havana house on the first floor. And we reduced the white stucco massing on the first floor next to the front entrance by proposing two options as seen in pictures, option one and option two. So in that meeting, these were the two options. We went back and we actually worked on this further and we came back and these are the two designs that we came up with, option one and two. On the April 24th meeting, we discussed this with the staff and the staff selected two option two which you see on the right hand side and you know this is the front elevation rendering of that option as you can see there are shutters used here the garage doors kind of mimic the shutters that you have on the Little Havana house on the first floor as well you have French doors we are using elements of the railings that are used extensively on the Little Havana house we're using the pillars and the capitals that are on the second floor of the Little Havana House. So most of those elements are reflected there. And we've ended more of a minimalist design on the railing on the sidewalk, which is similar to what we have in the Little Havana House as well. So after that, the staff decided to, as I mentioned, select option two. This is the option and also kind of a perspective view of the option, as you can see here. And compared to the original design, you see that we have the initial proposed design, quite modern house, and then we have something that looks, I think, absolutely a lot better than what we had proposed, and I'm glad you went through this. So with that said, I think we're done with the presentations.

Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item? Seeing no one, we'll close the public comments and open to the board for questions.

Hugh. I wasn't here at the April meeting. I live very close to this, and I remember the morning that it burned, and Sunday morning, mysterious fire. It wasn't you, but I should say you weren't the owner at the time. And, you know, the neighborhood zone duplex and these townhouses are going up all over the place. That's just the zoning. That's what's going to happen. All that being said, I like, you know, what you proposed for this one compared to the first one. I would have preferred the original house, but what's done is done. The thing about the new design is... It's different. It's different than all these other same cookie cutter sugar cubes with a couple pieces of wood up front. And so it looks different and it stands out. And that's kind of the idea behind historic designation for the original houses is that it's something that's different from what's being built today. So I commend you on doing that. You know, I'll let the architects go back and forth on whatever. But I actually salvaged... when they were demolishing it, a couple of those X railings, and I have it in a secure location. And the beam, it was like an eight by eight, 25 foot Dade County pine. I think this was built in 1918, the original. And so I cut that up in a couple of pieces, and my cabinet maker made furniture out of it, and I got a couple scraps here and there. I guess from being up here and seeing architects try to push modern stuff down our throats in all our districts, how much more work was it to come up with a little bit of design? Not much. It just takes a little bit of effort. Just like restoring an old building takes a little bit more thought. Instead of knocking it down and building new, fix what's there and kind of repair it. So I commend you on that, but I'll let these guys slug it out with you. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Ryan. Mr. Perez?

Okay. I guess I have my comments.

Sorry, Mr. Riz, would you pin that for one second? I think let's get some clarity on a couple of the staff conditions, because I do think there's a procedural element here that we need to make sure everybody is perfectly clear on before we go through the full process. Um, discussion. So, Adrian, would you mind terribly just running through the four conditions and specifically the implications? Because I think a key distinction between this project and everything else that we review is the matter before us now is a property that was historically designated. It was burned and likely was potentially going to be. demolished anyways due to being an unsafe structure. So it is probably the first example, I think, of the new demolition by neglect provisions in the code. So I think it is very important that we all proceed with an understanding of what exactly is being decided. So Adrian, if you could explain.

Can we go back to that slide? Because it's labeled as four separate conditions. It's more of like, no, it's more of like steps to be taken, but it's one condition. So we think that going, you know, at the end of this meeting, it should be approved with conditions, the condition being that they proffer a covenant, right? Let's go, let's just read it off here. I think specifically... The covenant will be proffered by the time of the final decision, right? So go ahead, sorry.

Now, my question, I mean, we have the conditions here, we have them in the staff report. My hope was if you could just give us the more intent behind the conditions that were added here and explain a little bit behind the...

We think the design covers what you all requested in the last meeting. But to make sure that that house is built, right, they proffer a covenant stating as such. And at the same time, the restrictions for construction on the house are removed, essentially.

So the intent, if I'm understanding the plain, just to put it in plain language for the sake of the panel board, the point is, if the applicant does not build the property as presented today, there is a reversion to all the restrictions that would have been otherwise applied under any demolition by neglect circumstance. Is that broadly right? So that's the only restriction here. So ultimately, the property will be de-designated and it falls outside the authority of the board if the board chooses to approve this on the basis of your provisions. Conditions, I should say. Okay, thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Perez.

Okay. I see why this board department would have chosen this one out of all the different iterations that were presented. I unfortunately, even though, actually, I can't say I disliked the original one from a design standpoint, but given that this is in a historic neighborhood, this was a historically designated property, I need to look at it through that lens. In fact, I designed things a little bit more towards the first design, personally, but I was always taught that when you're going to design With something traditional, you have to, this is just my belief, you have to follow the principles a little bit more closely. And I guess I have some critiques of this design. I do see that the pillars were used, and I see that the shutters were used, but I don't think they're quite, the design is quite up to the level where I believe it should be if it was truly inspired by the original structures. And I'll give you... some specific details. And maybe you don't want it to look like the original one, and if that's the case, I can see that. The original structure, the front portion, where, and I'm just going to bring up this image, bear with me, because I need to compare. The front porch had a base.

Thank you, sorry.

So the original front porch had a base. I don't know if you can bring it up. Okay, so the front porch had a base, and then there's these columns, basically these pilasters, and then there's a series of elements that create, I guess, what would be, what traditional would be like essentially the entablature or like the moldings, basically. And there's a whole buildup of different moldings of different depths, thicknesses, and even slightly they start moving around. And then they terminate in that last element. And then you have the portion above that. That isn't reflected here. Maybe it's intentional. What this looks like is, yes, I do see. You're referring to the pillars? Yes, the pillars. But not just the pillars. It's everything beneath. and above it, they create the entire composition architecturally. The pillars were certainly brought into this design, but I have to say, the pillars were simply placed underneath what looks like a concrete slab that is floating. So, respectfully, I'm saying this, this looks like a house that was modern and was remodeled to incorporate some traditional architectural elements, but isn't quite reaching to incorporate the richness of the original design. That may be your intention. So I guess I have an issue with that. I mean, I think it's headed in the right direction. So that's point number one. Point number two is, The concept of using shutters as simply decorative elements, which I can appreciate that you put them there, doesn't quite work for me. I mean, these shutters, a lot of times they're put decoratively, but the original structure did have functional shutters, which were two shutters on each side of the window. Now, I don't think it's fair to ask you to make small windows, because I understand you want light to come in, but I think a better approach would be, let's say, full windows, but with one shutter on each side, I can't see what's going on on the inside, so I'm just going based on what I see here. And then, of course, the roofline. The original roofline was pitched, had an eave. Maybe that's not really something that you want to go with here because you have a rooftop terrace. But I think trying to use those elements somewhere in this design might remind somebody that's walking by of what used to be there. And then... Just let me go. The next one is the garage door. I'm not sure how that effect is going to be achieved. Considering the NOAs and all the required acceptances for a garage door. It looks like it's evoking the elements of the original house. but I'm not sure how that's going to be achieved. So my fear always is if I know that it's challenging, and I'm not 100% sure if it can or can't be achieved. I believe it can't be achieved. My worry is we approve something like this here, and then it goes to the building department, and then under the umbrella of, well, we tried, but we can't achieve it. We're just going to paint it on. That ends up being what... that ends up being the final product. So I guess, I don't know, if your architect was here, maybe you can answer what model of garage door is intended to use there. I don't know if you're there at that phase of the design.

We can actually use louvers that can be attached to a standard garage door that would give that particular look. So you would have to work on that, but that's really something that gets done during the construction process.

Okay, so I guess for me, for this to have my vote, it would need to be composed much more so. It would need to be a lot more true to the original proportions of this. That's just my take. Maybe my professors drill this into my head a little too hard, but I'm a big believer that if you're going to go classic or traditional, you have to do it the proper way. Many times people come to me and say, can you do traditional? And I tell them, do you have the budget? And do you have the vision to be able to achieve it? Because if not, let's just go modern. If you're going to go halfway, don't do it. That's just one person's opinion here.

Mr. Escalona, I appreciate that. I've been through the budget, I can assure you, many, many times over. And we actually scrambled to work with the staff to get these designs done and incorporate some of these elements. I hope that, I mean, I think it looks a lot better, but I do take your comments to heart. I just don't know when this process could potentially end, because I think there has to be a point where we can say that, okay, it looks a lot better than what was proposed, and I'm proud of it. I'm glad you went through this process. But I just want you to also be aware of the fact that it's been two and a half years already Chasing this and I think we work with the HTTP stuff to come up with a product like this looks pretty good to me You know, I mean, I get your points, but I think it looks attractive. It really is in that neighborhood, I think, given all the modern homes that are building in that two blocks around there. You said you live there? You said you live there, sir. Yeah, I haven't seen anything similar to this.

I agree.

And in addition to being an architect, I'm also a developer, so I am very conscious of the other forces that you're balancing out. I am. Yes. I guess I'll go back to if you're going to do it, I would urge you to do it right. What that is, I'm sure it's a very subjective matter, but I guess I can tell you that you have the original picture and it is expressly there to be able to hopefully elevate this design.

I just want to point something out, by the way, not to argue against the points that you're having. When I read the historic designation report for the property, The primary reason this property was selected and designated as historic was because of the fact that the person that was living in that property owned and operated a lumber yard in the early 1900s. And actually, if you read the designation report, it says that the products that he created in his lumber yards was used to build some of the larger buildings, original buildings in Miami in the early 1900s. And that's one of the main reasons this was designated And the last thing that they were squeezing that designation report was the house itself, but the house was not anything special. And I just want to point that out. It was really the individual that contributed to this property being designated in that way. And I'm just saying that if you consider all of this, you know, And what we went through, the circumstances behind this property, and the effort that went into trying to redesign it, and also why it was designated, I think we should consider all of those in reaching a decision about what's being proposed here. And I would say one other thing. That plaque that you see in front, I think in order to memorialize that individual, the main reason this property was designated as historic I'd be willing to still do that bit of website. Somebody can go in and say, what's the background of this person? What is it that they did? We post all of that, and I think that's important to the legacy of the person. I can appreciate that.

Even though I wasn't designated because of that, I still see some beauty and some rich architectural details in the original house, which I think deserve to be honored. But again, one person's opinion here. There's many more board members that can counter that.

Sorry, let's let someone else go. Just give me one second.

I just want to clarify. There are many reasons to designate, and the owner was one. The building was significant. I was inside the building on many historical tours, interior, exterior, so we can't just say it was a wooden shack. It was a really unique building, especially for the time period and the neighborhood.

Thank you for mentioning that.

Good addition to you.

Go ahead, Jordan. Through the vice chair's chair.

Recognized. Floor is yours. Thank you.

So for me, it's a little bit about kind of the proportions. I'm just going to work with what's in front of me. I wasn't here at the last meeting, so that meeting where you were, I think it was April, so I missed out on that dynamic conversation. There are certain elements that immediately stand out that I think could be easily updated in this proposal that kind of reference the past house that was there. One being, and I appreciate that you're trying to do this, I guess, metal railing. I think you're proposing an aluminum railing with the Xs of some kind. The original one had a different proportion, right? So the scale of each of those metal panels and what you're doing, it's at the scale of a balustrade or a railing, right? Which is... almost double the size. So my first initial thought is to incorporate a knee-high wall that reduces the scale of those aluminum railings that are similar in nature to the original. That would happen everywhere you have that railing. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a reference, right?

So you're talking about these?

Yes.

Okay.

So that scale would then come back to the original proportion, right? Okay. Now, I was thinking that maybe that knee-high wall would also be the scored concept that you were having, which kind of references the shiplap or whatever that siding was that was originally on that original house. Secondly, the conversation around the... oddly just on the facade placed references to shutters that aren't shutters. I would rather see that whole entire system, where your glass is, be pushed in a little bit, like maybe a couple inches, to give a little bit of a depth to that facade. That's the glazing, and also whatever panel system you're going there. And I don't think they should look like individual shutters. I think it should feel as though it's part of a comprehensive panel system that connects those two windows.

Kind of like one of the options that we presented, which is, I mean, this is an example of them being separated even further, more.

And then this is an example of perhaps it would look like that if we put them all together. Something more along those lines, but that is of the same materiality as the shutters, right? But it's pushed back, and it's all part of the same window system.

Okay, so it's like on the same plane as the windows.

Exactly. So it doesn't feel like it's just applied to the surface. It's actually part of, it's almost as if, you know, I mean, this is a townhouse. So, you know, you're creating a kind of a continuity of that surface that blends the two together as if it was one house, right? Below that, I think that the, that, let's call it the panel system and the window wall system or whatever you want to call that. it should stop at the height of the knee-high wall. So that knee-high wall is actually continuing across the surface.

I've actually, with my finger, sketched everything I just said out.

I'm happy to supply it to staff to help. But you can kind of see the proportions that I'm talking about here, right?

Okay, so you're talking about the entire, the band on the second floor, the knee-high wall continuing right across the board over the shutters?

Well, I'm not removing your outer blockades, what you would call them. You're just attaching them from one side to the other. You see? No, no, it's just a ledge that goes along the lines of what you have here, you know? More depth to the facade. Because right now, it basically looks like a flat cast. And what we're trying to do is kind of give depth to the facade and bring it back to its original roots. And I think it's important that the panel system that you use, whatever that is for those aluminum railings, is exactly like the original, which can be made.

We had that on one of the options, actually, if I may show that quickly. If you look, we kind of mimic, try to do that on the second floor. You can see. But the scale of them, they're narrower, and, you know, the knee wall over there is going to be much smaller, more compact.

Yeah. I think that, you know, in the end, I mean, obviously, I'm taking from what's in front of me, and I appreciate your two-and-a-half-year journey. So I think, you know, this is a good kind of middle ground to get to where it needs to go. I think the conversation will be a lot different if it was in another scenario. But my last comment is about the garage. Whatever panel you're using up there, is the idea that that will be the same panel that you're using on the garage surface? I think we can do that.

I think when you have the garage and it rolls up and you have wider panels, you can put material in front of it so they also break up and roll over.

it would look similar to what we have. That's kind of what I was getting at.

It's a construction matter, yes.

I would use the dimension, like if it were me as the designer here, I would use the dimension of each of your window panels, because you have a mullion going through, right? Right, right. Carry that language. So I think you have maybe one, you'll have one, one, two, three, four, four or five panels, which would match up with what the garage would have.

I think that makes sense. Yeah.

Okay. And I'd be happy to share this with them.

Thank you, Mr. Trenburn.

Mike. What?

Let's let Mr. Cauley go first, since he didn't speak at the last time.

Go ahead, Chris.

Thanks a lot, Louis. I have a couple questions for, I guess, for staff, maybe. First of all, thanks a lot for coming. Obviously, you've been working very hard to get this all squared away and to try and make the architecture more appropriate, right, based on the context. And I guess my question for staff is, is you can see how these reviews of these projects are evolving, especially today, right? And I guess my question is, in a scenario like this, because I think it's fair that we try and be as upfront as possible, at least from my point of view, about what the expectations are, because if we're gonna have lots of different opinions about the architecture and the design and the massing and the materiality, as the staff members who worked with the applicant diligently, obviously, to get, I guess, the facades of the building to a point where you were comfortable with them from a historic preservation, or comfortable with them based on the comments from our last hearing, what would be the expectation, right, that we're gonna approve conceptual elevations and give you comments about change this item change that item and then that's going to get worked out at the staff level because if we're going to sit here and we're going to do this over every single project in this particular case we would expect to see something finalized

because this is a rescission of a designation it is a two-step process so should the board have further refinements that they wish to see that can take place between now and the final hearing on the rescission if the board's amenable to that right so WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING, THE BOARD WOULD MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE PRELIMINARY EVALUATION FOR RESCISSION BASED ON WHAT THEY KNOW WITH REVISIONS TO THE REQUEST FOR REVISIONS THAT WOULD BE SHOWN AT THE FINAL.

THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. I'M POINTING THIS OUT BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING IS YOU'RE RECEIVING COMMENTS AND FEEDBACK. At the end of this hearing it's going to be okay approve this project and straight to the building department. And i'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news i'm trying to be I think this needs to be pointed out earlier in some of these discussions about what we can achieve. What we can't so you know you know I mean, maybe you take some of this feedback think about what's happening, I mean, from my perspective. Mr. Ryan, all of our board members have a lot of experience in this and in this neighborhood, especially, and they all seem very positive about the direction that you're going. And I think you have the opportunity. You've done amazing work, and your attorney has, too, in showing how you're... understanding of the system, it's unfortunate that you purchased this property and you didn't know anything about that previous designation. So I think if it's understood in that context, and we're all providing a little bit of feedback in that context, then I think it would be more helpful to you to understand maybe what the next steps are, right? Because otherwise it seems there's an expectation for being let down, like is what I think can happen if somebody thinks they're gonna get approval, And then everybody's got opinions, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, yeah, come back next time. So that's important for me to mention because this is a gray area project, right? In the context that my understanding is that the last time you came here, it was because you had a full set of drawings in the building department, right? You had structure, MEP, landscape, civil. Plants processing, all the things that went along with it. And then, oh, it wasn't mentioned that it was a historic property. And now, in essence, unless you can figure out the direction of this project, you can't do any more engineering or anything And you are stopped.

Mr. Khalid, actually the changes to the facade and the elevation are not going to affect the floor plan and the structure. And we'll vet that and go through that. There were a couple of changes that were proposed today, which I think makes sense. The knee wall up there, I don't think structurally that's going to really affect too much. And... And I think the rest of the comments are easy enough that there would be elevation changes rather than structural changes. So what would happen is that I would keep the knee wall concept, which I think is great. I also thought about that a while ago myself. Into this design, and if everybody's okay with that, what I can do is then I can basically just vet the plans that are in front of the buildings department against this type of an elevation, update the plans, and then I can share that with, you know, Mr. Kalmes, and we can move from there, if you're okay with that, because I like the changes that they've proposed right now.

Well, to me, it's very helpful to hear that procedurally, how that can work for everybody, right? So that then these architectural comments and these aesthetic feedbacks can be taken in context, you can take them in, and at least there's a solid path forward for you to be able to move you know, in the right direction. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Chris, do you have specific design feedback for the applicant?

Well, that's why I'm asking all these questions, because are we going to see a set of plans?

If I understand the circumstances as presented, and think in the interest as well of the rest of the agenda tonight, my understanding is that whatever is decided, so let's just say hypothetically the board is willing to indulge the applicant for the next step of this, and they believe validly that what will come before the board will be sufficient to justify a final rescission of the designation, the best thing here would be to give them as much feedback as possible to ensure that what comes next would be a full set of plans and make sure the applicant understands what that approval threshold may be. And also, I think, make it clear that a full set of plans is expected before a final decision is made. Is that in line with the code, Ken, that statement? I did note the applicant stated that he would be amending a set of plans that's already with planning. As I understand it, the decisions being made here are not necessarily final. The final set that's approved would be what comes to us for the final rescission of the opinion.

The final rescission of designation.

So just in the interest of that, if I'm understanding the tenor of the board at this point, it's that they're generally okay with what they're seeing, but they'd like to see a fair bit of detailing change. Am I capturing that correctly, or is anybody blankedly opposed to the matter in front of us?

It's all detail.

Okay. All right. So coming to the details and in the interest of moving this along, I think Mr. Trachtenberg and Mr. Perez had the most detailed feedback as far as design. I know Hugh made some points as well. Bob, you didn't have a chance to give some specific feedback on the design?

Yes. Just real quick. Okay. So on the original house, you had fretwork on the first floor. That was one design. And then you had fretwork on the second floor. That was another design. My personal opinion is to follow what Mr. Trachtenberg told you, but on the second floor, what we would call in the United States the second floor, is to do what was found originally on the first floor there, and then to do the fretwork above there in the smaller detail at the top. The house is out of proportion from our perspective. A lot of people have said that the The problem with the house is the proportions. There's a little bit more concrete before the windows on the second floor all the way up to the roof. It's just not proportional to what the original property was. That's all. And those things are things that can be done by making that a little taller, the shutter work a little taller, you know what I'm saying, to break up that mass at the top. But I understand Mr. Trachtenberg will be sending you something about how the knee wall on the second floor should be and all the rest of that.

Yes.

Also, the front gate, on your front gates where you enter into your things that face the street, I think that you should copy the first floor, what you do on the second floor. You should do that for the gate work. that faces the, I'm not talking about this gate that opens for the car, I'm not talking about that. But on your gates, your entry gates that go in there. The other thing I would tell you to do is that house had shutters on every window. I don't need you to do that, but I would put the shutters to the left and to the right of the window downstairs, just that can be folded over that window. I'm just saying that because historically, that would look correct.

Okay?

It would just look correct on the first floor that there would be that window. I'm not even talking about the second. Yeah, the first floor. That that window would have, well, it would have had a shutter over it, actually. Because on the first floor of the original building, it was shuttered. Everything had shutters on it. So I'm just saying to you that that would be my only other thing that I would say to you is to come up with some type of a, And, you know, they do open because I had them on several of my own old houses, had those, and they were actually removable. You took them off after hurricane season.

But at any rate, those are my only comments.

And my third comment to you is...

I'm sorry, may I get just a clarification? So the two final options... Yeah, there you go.

Right. We had a shutter there that means... Well, I'm just saying I would bring that back. That's just my personal opinion. I think that would look better. I just think that that would look better.

And then my only other comment is the garage.

I don't like that big space above it. I think you should either do some type of a rounded effect across the top of it. Because everything is so square on that house. And I think that that would just add to it and make it look a little bit more...

We did have an option here. Yes, right there.

Is that what you're talking about? I wouldn't go that far. What I would do is I would take the shutters and just copy the shutters and kind of like a round pattern above it. That's all.

Are there arches on there?

Like arching. No? No?

Yeah, I mean, there are no arches on the original. It seems pretty... There aren't any? Nothing. Then, whatever.

I just think that that's... Dude, that's just like a lot of cement above the front thing. It looks out of perspective. That's all.

But if I look closely, you're doing like a shiplap, like a fake... Are they? When I looked close... Well, I don't see that.

God is going to tell you something. That's why drawings in person are so much better, because then we can see... We can't see it on this. It doesn't show that. So if there is some type of feneration or some type of Like, thing, then I don't disagree with you. Then it breaks that up as far as being just a flat space.

It looks like the whole front has the fake shiplap, like Hardy Border or however you... All right, never mind.

I belay my last. I belay my last. I'll take that away.

Then forget it. Colonial revival, Bob. I don't think we need archways. Let me take a quick stab at this. I haven't spoken... So, coming into the siding issue, how much... What's the elevation from the ground of the first floor?

I think it's just one step up or... It's one step up.

So, okay, so it's about...

Yeah, so you're almost flat with the ground. And then the first floor height is 10 feet. The second floor height is 9 feet. And the reason that you have all those spaces there is because of the new structural codes. You have to have a fairly large...

you know, floor space there, you know.

The joists. The joist system, of course, yeah. It's a trust system there to allow for utilities to pass through.

I think one of the glaring things to me with this, and I'm not an architect, so this is considered a historically enthusiastic lay perspective, the fact that the shiplap or the beadboard or clabbered, whatever that siding is, because the treatment always sees horizontal lines, it's hard to see what that, so that's just stamped concrete?

What we were thinking, there were two ideas. Mr. Kamis suggested that we use fiber cement boards And what I suggested, I would prefer that we have stucco with grooves that go across that would mimic that same look, and it would be better lasting, perhaps.

I think I would be inclined to agree with Mr. Kalmas on that. I think I also think it'd be important to make sure that you terminate that above the bottom. It should not come all the way to the ground. And I think you should maybe try to express the crawl space that existed in the original property somewhat. So that it's a little bit more reflective of that. I think one of the defining things for these vernacular houses is the fact that they all did have a crawl space. I mean, I think that was a fundamental part of their design. So to the extent that you could capture that, and perhaps some...

Implied ventilation. How would you propose I do that? Because then I would have to go redesign the entire house. I'm sorry for clarity.

I don't mean to raise the property. I'm just simply saying don't terminate. So do the fiberboard, but terminate it above the ground. Give it a base. Put the statue on a plinth sort of thing, if that makes sense.

How would you make that base? What would you propose for that base?

I think stucco, just base. White stucco? Yeah, and maybe have some, so look at the, we could pull up the picture from the staff report.

Just like the knee wall that was proposed by Mr. Trachtenberg, right? Just like the knee wall, but at the bottom there.

Sort of. I think, I mean, it would basically, the best example I can give you is the picture from the staff report. If we could pull that up.

Give it a second. If we can switch to mine. Give me a second.

To your thing, if you do that, then the pilasters move up as well. That run along, no, no, if you raise that where the thing, I don't disagree with you, but then the poly... Look there, that's the best example.

So if you see the integration between the siding and then it's onto the masonry base of the structure, and then you can see the ventilation of the crawl space, that's what I think would be an important integration to make this evoke a little bit of the practical reality of what this architecture did. It was to create... a breezier, more breathing house. So I think that's an important detail, which I would hate to see omitted. Otherwise, I broadly agree with the architectural feedback that you've gotten.

And you also see in this photograph the difference in the design of the railings on the second floor and the first floor, which is an important distinction to make, gentlemen.

That's all. Thank you. The detailing that we're seeing there in that molding, is that something that's being expressed in the new structure?

It's very hard to see from this. The columns, the actual pillars that you see are being turned around. So there's a third pillar like in the corners here. You do have a third pillar there as well.

You have that as well? Yeah. What about this little crinulated band underneath that lip? The dentals. The dentals.

Yeah, that's what they're called, dentals. Right. You're talking about this item here? This? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, as you can see, it's right on top of those two pillars. You have that little cap under that band there. Is that what you were asking, sir?

No. See those little squares all along the... Look up there.

The dentals, the dental moldings. I mean, if you start to put those kinds of features on this house, then we have to like propagate it everywhere. And then it's going to start to look a little bit different. But we can put dental moldings, but I think it would go against the character of that.

No, no, I don't disagree with you. I think more so that's a point of study. So you will come back to us with a final set of plans. You've gotten a lot of feedback here tonight. So in the final rescission, assuming that this goes in that direction, we will be reviewing a final complete set of plans, I would assume.

Yes, we would do that, but if I may ask, I would like to enumerate the changes that were proposed, make sure that we put them in the plans, and if you would like full set of plans, that means I have to go to full structural and all the elevations have to be changed on the actual CAD plans to reflect that. And for me to take that effort, I would like to know exactly what are the changes you need to make, one, two, three, four, and then I'll be more than happy to do them because I agree with everything that was said here today.

So I will say, yeah, I think that's very fair. I think it's certainly in the best interest of all parties that whatever feedback my colleagues on this board wish to give you tonight, Let's go through it. Let's make sure everybody kind of captures what they want to see, if they want to see anything at all. And then I'll remind you, all of this is recorded, so you can go back and watch this presentation in its entirety and kind of take whatever context you need away from that to finalize it. Thank you. I do think it's important that whatever you do get tonight, this board always retains its deliberative power. So just because somebody says, I'd like to potentially see something, what you're asking this board to do through this de-designation is an enormously... It's it's an enormous step for a board that's tasked with historic preservation. So no one's taking this lightly and I think we reserve all of our deliberative powers despite the fact that we're giving you feedback at this point this is only for a Preliminary rescission for clarity even if it were to go in your favor.

That's fair sir.

Okay. Thank you So gentlemen, I think for the sake of moving this along, maybe let's just go down the line. Oh Dr. Hopper, do you have comments forgot about?

I have a question

So we made a list, if you'd like us to. Sorry, there's a question. There's a further board member who is remote, and he has a question for you. Go ahead, Dr. Hopper.

Thank you, sir. I'm Mr. Fechtenberg, and I was wondering what I was thinking.

Also, I was wondering, maybe above the new wall, part of the second floor, is to say the floor of the second floor, rectangular

Dr. Albert, we're having a very hard time understanding. The connection's not great. Could you type it into the chat, and perhaps the clerk could read it out, the question?

I wouldn't do it.

Okay, I think that was a yes. Sorry, Doctor, the connection's very bad. Okay, while Dr. Hopper asks this question, maybe we can just kind of run through the line. Chris, do you have any architectural feedback here? Okay. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said pass. Go ahead.

No, no, I just have one quick thing. So I knew this was going to happen, right? You're going to have to look at this in total. So when you do, my suggestion is to do a little landscape plan, put a palm or a tree on each side of the property, which would mean that if we were looking at your elevations, We'd actually be seeing it totally different, but I'm looking at the site on Google Earth right now, and I think you have plenty of room to do that, and you can keep it super simple, but I really think that'll help integrate your property, and you'll be happy that you did.

Yeah, it would look nice.

Yeah, okay, thank you.

A couple of palms on the landscaping. Yeah. Left and right.

Thank you. Hugh.

It's all been said.

You're clear on your feedback? You're comfortable that that's on the record?

Yeah.

John?

I definitely have my comments.

I sketched some things out, which might illustrate what I'm trying to communicate.

It might illustrate what I'm trying to communicate. I'm not suggesting you follow my design to the T, because of course I'm not here to tell you exactly how to design it, but I guess my thoughts were, if you're not inclined to use the pitch roof, because it's not incorporated anywhere, then the other direction that I guess this would take was, the original house had the shiplap on the sides, the pitch roof, and then a very prominent element in the front. So assuming that Pitch roof or not part of the menu let's just say then I would as an architect approach it as okay we're going to be we're going to take quite a bit of inspiration from the front element so some of the main things that I would venture into incorporating would be essentially to. to detail this series of moldings, which could be done with stucco, not in a very complicated way. I wouldn't tell you to do the dentals because that is complex. Then also the base, for example. So now it starts to to start breaking this up into, let's say, the three parts. Three parts, right, like this, which is something that comes up in classicism a lot, which would now give the ability of making these pilasters a little bit more proportional in relation to what the original design was. Now, again, I don't know what's going on behind this, but one consideration would basically be to put additional pilasters in between The original element had doubles, doubles, and then some smaller ones in the middle. So basically, one idea would be to break this up into one module, then this one could just be made up of louvers, and then basically mirror it on the other side. Now, this could be a window with maybe some minimal, you know, muntins, not necessarily the entire grid, because I can appreciate the desire to have visibility out. And then, you know, another one of these pilasters, pilasters. and maybe the door that goes all the way up now i realize that there may be limitations on door sizes what i sometimes do is i let's say i go to the maximum size door and then i paint this a gray color that may match this so at least the verticality is is basically expressed there over here again i would continue with the louvers all the way up even if they're applied on a different plane so that you're still kind of going from the bottom all the way up. I realize here there isn't the possibility of a base because the car needs to go in, but at least it's being expressed in some of these locations. I would urge you to detail some of these front elements in the same kind of style or with these same details that were being used you know, here, just to kind of give it a nod. Part of the original design had these elements that came up that also had these moldings. Again, I'm not suggesting that something complex is made. It can just be achieved with stucco. For these portions, I would urge you to you know, to do this detail, which was the one that was above and not necessarily the one that was at the bottom. On top of it, you're probably going to need a lot more to be able to reject the four-inch sphere compared to what you have right now. And then my thoughts were, I guess my issue was these vertical planes simply turning into these elements above. So let's say on this side, because I realize this is going to go all the way around, I would suggest just having one small molding because it's on a secondary plane, putting some louvers on the side. I don't know if this is all the way up against the side, but putting one on each side. And then perhaps considering if this is the language that would be adopted here, to bring it up again to the second floor basically taking this up and once again putting another base breaking this up and let's say window louver louver palacers louver louver windows again this concept of the three three elements one two three one two three kind of mimicking this one two three and then perhaps also recreating this molding over here considering that it's only going to have to go around the corner and you don't have to run it all the way around the building this you could probably terminate it right after you go around it so you don't have to go around but even then i would maybe take one of these moldings and run it around the building to give us some horizontality and again My suggestion would be to use the same detail here and then also detail these elements in the same way that they're detailed there. So these are just ideas of how you might be able to incorporate it. I understand that more pilasters is additional cost. But I also believe that possibly it might. And I would like to hope that it might turn into a higher return on investment. Maybe you get a buyer that can appreciate these elements. I hope you do. So these are just ideas of how I would approach it.

So to that point, sketches that are being presented, do you need to provide it to us and to hearing boards?

My suggestion was going to be, why don't we have whomever has done sketches to provide them to you, Ken? And so as you liaise with the applicant, that feedback is codified somewhere.

Again, the last thing I want to say. This is not, I don't show these details in an effort to have you, you know, make me happy because you like my design. These are just ideas of how I would approach it. Obviously, it's up to you and your architect to interpret it. That's the way I took it, sir. Thank you so much.

I think they're good ideas. If you give us the option to incorporate some of them, we appreciate that. So we don't record that as an item, if you don't mind. But I would like to incorporate some of those items as long as I have a copy of it. And I'll discuss that with Mr. Kalmas.

We just need to make sure that they are recorded for the record.

Yes.

Thank you for listening.

Okay. My feedback was recent, but just to recap it for you, it was the fiberboard siding terminating it high enough to express the call space. And studied the molding detail, and it didn't come up prior, but Mr. Cauley's comment reminded me. I know there is a large mature point cyanotree in the frontage of the lot, correct? I would very much like to see that remain or be moved to the greatest extent possible.

Okay. The idea of the two palms on the side, I think, you know, if we... I'm sorry? Yes. Yes, I mean, the driveway is at the center for the two garages, comes at the center. That tree is slightly to the left of the center. If you have the option to remove that tree and plant new ones, I would prefer to do that, if possible.

Is that what you were asking? My preference would be to... to whatever extent possible, keep that tree. Certainly, it's contributing enormously to the character of that. It does link the two properties from the existing, from the previous property where that was the frontage of it. It ties into your new structure, so I would very much look kindly upon the preservation of that tree. Or, in a worse case, a relocation of that tree, which is also an option.

I think that's a huge tree, and I believe that most of our disciplines in the building permit have already been approved, but including the landscaping plan, historic was the only thing that was remaining. We, of course, have to go and vet everything and look at things. Would you be open to the possibility of replacing that tree if, in case, we cannot implement the current design because of its interference?

I think I would be. I can't tell you how I would review something until we've viewed it. I would say that, to the greatest extent possible, you should try to keep that tree. Absent that, I would like to see that tree mitigated to the greatest possible extent.

And what would that mitigation be, sir?

something in kind of similar size or of, you know, multiple things of similar size that would create, I mean, what I don't want to see is a six inch or a four inch tree that's just been blocked in front and a payment into a mitigation fund.

I got you. So if you don't, if you take the tree out, we have in kind other trees that would be planted of similar size. maybe on the left and right of the property to accommodate that. And if you're able to keep it and still maintain the design and the driveway, I think it interferes with the whole design. But if you're able to keep it, we'll keep it and implement the current design.

Great.

Yeah, that sounds good.

Thank you. Okay.

This is why you need a landscape, a legit landscape plan, a legit tree disposition plan. A survey showing what's there in an intense plan isn't reviewable. So I just want to make sure that you know the expectations so there's no surprises. But you can see where this is going.

Thank you. I think he's being flexible, so I appreciate that.

I see Dr. Hopper may have posted a message. Would you mind reading that into the record?

Yes. Per Dr. Hopper, it says, could you incorporate the more rectangular shape form with the included interior rectangle And raised in the railing at the floor of the second floor above the knee wall.

Thank you. That should be in there already.

And the cross hatched on the roof line.

Correct.

Like on top of the original front porch.

Correct.

Okay.

Yes, thank you, Dr. Hopper.

Yes, so to be clear for Dr. Hopper, to be clear to Dr. Hopper, I think your concerns have been addressed by Mr. Powers already.

And I believe Mr. Escalona also had the same suggestion for the rating on top. I'm sorry, Mr. Perez. I apologize.

Oh, yeah, Mr. Escalona sits here. Thank you. I'm not Mr. Escalona. That's the commissioner. I'm Mr. Perez.

Sorry about that. Thank you. Mr. Trachtenberg.

just asking for additional commentary or are you supposed to reiterate if you would just give him the feedback you gave him earlier just to reiterate for clarity so he can uh consider that with their redesign right so um i've already sent it um to staff but what i had mentioned earlier i also resented to hearing boards if you're confident that it's in your if it's clear enough in your thing don't feel like yeah it's cleared and noted and i think they understood perfect thank you mr powers do you feel like you need to stress any of your points or are they well accepted at the

I had four.

Go for it. The roofline thing being the crosshatch, as also Dr. Hopper wanted and Mr. Trachtenberg wanted. The same design on the second floor as what was on the first floor. The front gate that enters into the house, I think that you should do the same design as what's on the... Second floor, do that so that it mimics that.

I just think that'll look so attractive. Is that correct, sir? You're referring to that design? Yes. Double squares with a cross. Okay.

On your front gate, and just restressing the... And you have the three columns, the three columns, right? And then you want to raise it up, correct?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Those were the only things that I remembered, and everything that Mr.

I'm sorry, these columns?

The columns that are wrapped around, like the three that you pointed out. Exactly. Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. Anything else that we want to add? Do we have a motion? Moved. You've got to make it, Bob. You can't just say so moved.