Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

and you will have three minutes to address the commission. If you've previously sent pictures or a presentation for the meeting, they will be displayed on the screen and our city clerk will help you run the presentation. If you've established you are speaking on the behalf of a larger group like an HOA, where others from that group will allow you to speak on their behalf, you will have up to 10 minutes. After all those who've signed up in advance have spoken, we'll invite anyone else in chambers or on Zoom to testify. If you wish to speak on a topic, you may come forward in chambers, or if on Zoom, press the raise hand button, or if you're only listening on a telephone, please press star nine and your name will be called. If you're listening on multiple devices, such as a computer and a phone, please be sure to mute those extra devices so we do not experience feedback and we can hear you clearly. When you're finished, if the commission does not have questions for you, you will return to your seat in chambers or be muted on Zoom and no longer have the ability to speak. And please remember, we will not call on you a second time. After all testimony has been heard, the applicant will be given another 10 minutes to come back and respond. When the applicant is finished responding to questions and concerns, we will close the public hearing and the commissioners will have the opportunity to discuss and hopefully make final recommendations to city council or decisions as needed. With that, we will start with item number two, H2026-0004, live well at 3175 North 10 Mile Road for a modified development agreement and conditional use permit for animal care facility. And commissioners, we are the recommending body for this because there's a modified development agreement, so this will go to council, okay? We'll start with staff report.

Good evening, commissioners. So this is an apple. Again, this is an application for conditional use permit and development agreement of modification. This site consists of 1.164 acres of land zoned LO and is located at 3175 North 10 Mile. In 2021, a request to rezone the property from R4 to LO, to the LO district was approved. The request was made per the provisions within the Meridian Comprehensive Plan for the purpose of constructing a 10,000 square foot office building in lieu of residential development and a development agreement modification to replace the existing agreement and enter into a new agreement to develop the site consistent with the proposed development plan. Council granted the off issues. Slash zone and pretty provisions outlined in the comprehensive plan. Again, this application is the modification to the existing development agreement to include an animal care facility as an allowed use as the current development agreement limits the uses to professional services. Personal services and health care and social services. That's where the animal care facility a conditional use permit is required. For this is required to be approved for this use. Access to the property is from Eustrick Road, which shall be an interest only and appropriate signage and striping to inform patrons that this is not an exit for the site, excuse me. The applicant will need to work with ACHD on any allowed curbing within the right of way to help ensure this access is for ingress only. And on 10 Mile, this shall be a right in and right out only. That kind of has stated that the business hours. For this will be 9 am to 6 pm Monday through Friday and Saturday 12 to 6 pm. In this district in the low and seeing districts. Business hours are restricted from 6 am to 10 pm unless otherwise were conditional use permit we will be requiring the applicant to operate within the hours that they provided. So the rig the existing da require the applicant to provide a 30 foot landscape buffer along these parcels as part of the provisions of the da so the applicant provided as you can see on the landscape plan, this is what they provided. As far as specific new standards for animal care facility, all animals shall be indoors at all times, except for when being exercise and that such times animal shall be under the supervisions and direct control of the caretaker. The applicant has an outdoor area. that shows the location where dogs will be able to go and relieve themselves and they will have a caretaker with them at all times. And if they don't have a caretaker that is available to go with them, they have an area inside where the dogs can relieve themselves. So they have to comply with all the specific use standards for this. And they will need to work with Republic when they go in for their certificate of zoning compliance to determine the exact location for their garbage containers. This is a floor plan for their office. So they did provide conceptual elevations. Again, a certificate of zoning compliance and design review will be required for this application. And they'll have to meet the design standards required by the city. And again, I don't know if you got this is the same type of facility that is located off of Eagle Road behind take five next to Raising Cane. This appears to be the exact replica of that building, if you haven't seen it. For the score footage that they are proposing, they are required to have eight parking spaces, but they provided 43, so they exceed their parking requirements. There were no written testimonies for this application, so staff is recommending approval of the proposed CUP as we find it in compliance with the comprehensive plan and the UDCs with the conditions that are included. in our staff report, and we recommend approval of modification to the development agreement to include animal care facility as an allowed use. And at this time, I'll be happy to take any questions you have.

Would the applicant like to come forward?

Thank you. Chad Jones. My address is 1119 East State Street, Suite 120, Eagle, Idaho, representing ALC Architecture. We concur in its entirety with the staff recommendations. Any of the conditions or requirements that they presented within their staff report, that's really all I have. I will stand for any other questions if you have any.

The other location on Eagle Road, how long has that been in operation?

Oh, shoot. I have no idea. Can you help me with that?

A year, six months, two months?

I mean, is it brand space? It's fairly new. I'm going to introduce...

Neil D. Smith. I'm with Mission Pet Health, which is the owner of the facility here. So 417 Devon Drive, Birmingham, Alabama. The location on the Eagle Road is not yet open. We've passed certificate of occupancy. So we'll be occupying that space in the next 30 days or so. But that building is complete from the exterior. And to your point, yes, it will be a pretty much replica of that building and was there this afternoon. It turned out really well and very attractive for the neighbor.

Are these the only two locations you have in the Treasure Valley?

We own, so Mission Pet Health owns a number of locations across the country. And so I think in the greater Boise area, we own about 10 different animal hospitals. So we operate those under independent names. The Live Well Animal Hospital is our new animal hospital brand that we're opening under a singular brand. And so we've got across the country, 35 to 40 of those and continue to scale those across the country.

Any other questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you very much. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to testify?

Thank you, Madam Chair. No one has signed up, and no one online has their hand raised.

Gentlemen, did you have any other comments before we close the public hearing? Are you good? All right. May I get a motion to close the public hearing, please?

So moved. Second.

it's been moved and second to close the public hearing for application 2026 dash 000 for live well all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries. This is a, this is a challenging corner because of the roadway. you know, the way the roadways have just kind of evolved over the years. If the applicant is fine with the right in, right out, you know, and the neighbors are good, I think that 30-foot buffer will definitely mitigate any kind of noises. I know when, this is an animal hospital as opposed to boarding, so I know my dog always ended up in what they called the choir room because he was always a barker, but Um, but, you know, it's a nice small space that could definitely have a niche product there that, you know, would definitely add to our community. So I'm in support of this.

I agree. It's also Sorry, I thought I had it on. I agree. I think this is also good, relatively low volume use. Right. That also can give a complimentary service for the local residents. I think this is great.

I'm supportive of the application. I think, as you pointed out, the corner is challenging from a transportation standpoint, but it's probably also why it's attractive. Right.

as anybody on the parks commission will say uh and testify i've always been a huge dog person and uh i'm always interested to see the growth in that sector uh also in favor of the application will echo uh your your comments as well madam chair as a just a point of clarification i don't want to assume but uh being that you brought up the the topic so With the hours of operation being what they've established, we're assuming that there is no overnight boarding in this particular, will not be overnight boarding in this particular facility? Okay, thank you.

Yeah, just a hospital.

Perfect.

All right, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend file number H2026-004 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of June 18th, 2026. With no modifications to go on to City Council.

Second.

It's been moved and second to approve Live Well. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much, gentlemen. The next item up is file number H2026-0017, requests a conditional use permit for Seven Brew Coffee at 3570 East Fairview. We are the deciding body for this conditional use permit, and it is a tier two. We'll start with the staff report.

Good evening again. So this site consists of 0.64 acres of land. It's zone CG and it is located at 3570 East Fairview Avenue. The site was annexed in 2007 and subdivided in 2011 as part of the Central Cal subdivision. With the annexation application, a development agreement was approved and a concept plan consistent with the building location as proposed. The subject site is among a wide range of commercial uses in the central Cal subdivision, which is the village at Meridian and surrounding area near the intersection of Fairview Avenue and Eagle Road. The proposed use as a restaurant with a drive-through aligns with the desired uses specified in the mixed use regional designation in the comprehensive plan in conjunction with the already approved retail. restaurants, recreation facilities, et cetera, in the broader area. The proposed use satisfies the general mixed use regional future land use destination for this area. So again, this is considered a tier two drive-through and it requires the conditional use permit. So the applicant is proposing a 910 square foot drive-thru restaurant designed to accommodate seven vehicles in the stacking lane. They have indicated the intended hours of operations are from 5 a.m. to 11 p.m., seven days a week, with the possibility of going 24-7 if the demand is there for extended hours of operation. In addition, the applicant has indicated that Seven Brew typically has 10 to 15 employees per shift, which an average of 400 customers per day. The applicant's narrative states that their business model of using runners instead of a traditional menu board for ordering will speed up the process and prevent queuing from backing up into the dry vows and roads. They have provided three parking stalls, but are part of a shared parking agreement for the village at Meridian. So staff in the Meridian Police Department expressed concerns about the overflow stacking. As a result, the applicant provided a transportation study from a Seven Brew location in Santa Rosa, California. This provided data showing approximately seven seven vehicles per vehicles per vehicle trips per hour. In addition, they included a queue and data for 12 similar seven brew locations, which show the average maximum queue of 7.4 vehicles per lane with wait times varying based on employee count at each location. The applicant also indicated in the event of an emergency that they would have customers go into the escape lane. However, they do not anticipate needing this regularly. If this becomes a regular occurrence, the applicant will need to apply for a tier three drive through establishment, which means that they will have to go before city council. So the affluent submitted conceptual building elevations for the whole structure, but building materials consists of stucco, stone veneer, aluminum panels, and glazing. The conceptual building elevations appear to meet the guidelines set forth in the architectural standard manual. The final building's design will be subject to commercial design guidelines and will be reviewed with design review application. there were no written testimonies for this and staff is recommending approval of the proposed cup application and find it in conformance with the comp plan udc and conditions included in section four and five and findings in section five and at this time i will stand for any questions you have would the applicant like to come forward please

Madam Chair, we have Sandra Fox online.

Hi, Ms. Fox, if you can state your name and address for the record, please. Yes, ma'am.

My name is Sandra Fox. I am with Core States Group and the address is 409 Pine Street, Klamath Falls, Oregon 97601. My name is Sandra, as I stated, and we are working with Seven Brew. We are the consultants for Seven Brew on this project, and we understand that the queuing is a concern. As was stated by staff, we have provided information that at one of our busier locations, we are able to accommodate the amount of traffic at that time. The store is... Sorry, staff is willing to... to take traffic and put it into the queuing lane. Apologies, my computer was glitching. So we are willing to use that bypass lane as a queuing lane if need be. We do not anticipate the need to do so. We also have the ability to stack additional cars within the parking lot should those parking stalls be vacant. So we are not proposing to, block any of the parking stalls that are used, and we will have staff outside if we have too many vehicles to accommodate in the queue. I'm happy to answer any questions. We are very much looking forward to being in the city and opening up the store.

Currently, do you have any stores that are 24 hours?

We do not on the West Coast.

Okay, and then there is no place to go inside for customers, right? It's drive-through only?

Correct. It is an extremely small store. It is drive-up only, and there is no public space.

Okay. Commissioner Smith, did you have some questions for the applicant?

Yeah, so quick question. For that busier location that you cited, how many cars do those stacking lanes accommodate?

That is a very good question. Let me see off the top of my list.

12 12 okay um question for staff um so we're talking about there's a tier two if it becomes a regular issue of them having to use that second lane they'd have to apply for a tier three what if that tier three gets denied do they have do they lose their license to do business in the city or what is that what is the mechanism by which you enforce that

Madam chair members of the Commission. A couple couple distinctions here so one when we change the code. The applicant. If they go from a tier 2 to a tier 3 that is a new conditional use permit which would come to you as a recommended body and then go on the City Council for review for their decision. The other part of the code that changes if they do use that second lane. then they lose their escape lane and no longer meet the standards of the code as well, which would also trigger a conditional use permit modification. So, they could get denied and then they would have the right to operate under Tier 2 and they couldn't use that extra drive-through lane except for an escape lane only. So, the mechanism would be a condition that says you can't do that or revoke their condition of approval until they correct the violation. That's usually how it works.

Mr. Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

Is there anything around that? Let me, so it sounds like if they use a solution to a problem too much, we prevent them from being able to use the solution that doesn't get rid of the problem. So if they do have overflow into the rest of the lot, is there any penalty for that?

Madam Chair, members of the Commission, not necessarily. Really, the intent behind drive-throughs is that you're not impeding traffic through circulation through the development. So even if they were to stack a little bit in drive-outs, there's many ways to get through that commercial development. It wouldn't halt. It wouldn't... It wouldn't have vehicles backing up or stacking up on Fairview. That's really the major roadway there. That's what we're trying to prevent is vehicles from stacking on the main driveway as you turn off a Fairview into the site. So if they can contain it on site, they can move customers to designated parking spaces, or they intermittently use that other lane to kind of help move along at peak hours, probably going to be fine. Keep in mind the code only requires that they accommodate up to six vehicles. That's the minimum standard, and they're saying they're allowing. They can accommodate up to seven, so they already exceed what the minimum code required is for stackingly.

I'm sure question for the applicant. Do you have an idea of, I guess, what your, you know, the curve of your daily volume looks like? What are your peak hours? You know, I guess, do you have an idea of what percentage of your traffic comes through, say, after 6 p.m., after 8 p.m., you know, anything like that?

Our peak hours are in the morning, so it is the coffee crowd, and then in the evening. So we would not be competing necessarily with the hours of operation of those visiting the retail stores or the the In-N-Out Burger. We also have, I believe, approximately 75% of bypass traffic. So traffic that is already traveling either to these businesses or along Fairview is how we are accommodating our customers. So it's not that we are creating 100% new traffic for the area. And our hours are usually opposite or conducive to other businesses in the shopping center. I'm sure.

Commissioner Smith?

Just to follow up on that. I ask because there's discussion of potentially if there's enough demand of becoming 24 hours. So it seems to me that there's some data somewhere showing that you have enough sales in the PM hours to potentially justify having staff. I'm curious if you could just elaborate a little bit more on, and I don't need specific numbers, but a ballpark or an idea of what percentage or what amount of, I know it's not the majority, but what amount of your traffic comes in maybe the afternoon or evening hours?

Because this is a new West Coast brand, and I don't want to say we're testing the market, but essentially we are. So to answer that question, the anticipation is that the evening hours, the later evening hours are going to be weekend oriented or weekend. during events. I do not have, and I apologize, I do not have the percentage, but if I were to guess, and I might get fired for this, but I'm going to guess, I would say probably 70% is going to be morning and evening combined, so that there are extreme highs, and then the midday is much lower. Does that answer your question?

Yeah, thank you.

Sure.

madam chair commissioner jessamine a quick question for the applicant uh sandra so when going to the discussion of the uh escape lane when a vehicle uses the escape lane can can full through traffic still circulate around that around the building simultaneously or does that vehicle block the private drive aisle

that vehicle would block that private drive aisle. So as was stated by staff, we do have the opportunity to stack in the shopping center drive aisles as well as request those customers to park in a parking stall so that if we have a large order and to not block that queuing lane, we may ask them to park and we will bring their drinks and their order out to them. The intent is not to use that bypass lane for stacking. It is almost an emergency situation that it very well may be used on opening day during the quote honeymoon period of a new store coming to town, but it is not the intent to use it on a daily basis. Understood.

Thank you.

Question for staff. For this conditional use permit, how, is it two years?

long is the permit valid so uh madam chair members of the commission it's they have have up to two years to commence the use but the cup runs with the land unless they cease the use for a year and then they they have to start over okay i didn't hear all that so if they have two years to act on the conditional use permit and then what And then it runs with the land, so it remains in place in perpetuity unless another use goes in there or it ceases for a year, up to 12 months.

I guess I'm just trying to understand, like, what's the mechanism from the city to say it goes from tier two to tier three? Is that from code enforcement to say, hey, this is a little bit more crazy than we thought it would be, and they need to be able to go back in front of council or because once it leaves the planning process, right, and they build and they're open, what mechanisms do the city have to put that condition on saying we're going to move you from to tier two to tier three?

yeah madam chair members of the commission it would be a complaint driven action by either code enforcement or somebody at the a citizen per se and then they would go out and investigate it and if cars were actually stacking and orders were being taken from the the second the escape lane and they would be notified that they're in violation and they need a cup okay and they would if it if they want to do that so the way they could remedy Remedy, the violation is either not use it and then go back to the original conditions of approval or apply for that tier three conditional use permit and ask you and the council if it's appropriate to allow a second drive-through lane.

So Sandra, the reason why we say this, have you been to the site personally?

I have not. So I have only been Google Earth and some photos.

So the Village of Meridian is a relatively newish shopping destination, and it continues to grow. And I understand exactly why you want to be there as long as well as the other outside businesses of this. But the interior of the parking, what you're going to be competing with is in the evenings, you'll be competing with in and out. But during the day, you'll be also competing with parking. health club, you know, that and it gets it gets pretty gnarly in there at times. And there are occasions where there's just not enough parking for the people who go visit this destination of, of shopping, dining, eating, and playing and all that kind of thing. And that could really impede, um, your circulation for your, for your, um, your business. And I think that is the concern of this commission is that, you know, we look at connectivity, we look at safety, we look at making sure that, you know, we're not getting people, um, agitated because they just want a that's one of the reasons why we're asking all these questions is because you are in a high traffic area, which is great visibility for this new brand. And I'm sure that coffee lovers will flock to this, but you're also going into high volume in and out and the village all stacked on top of each other. So those are our concerns. Is it your long-term intention to possibly do this 24 hours? Are you really on the West Coast looking at that 11 p.m. closing time?

Thank you for making those statements and clarifying that for me. Right now, we are just looking at the 11 PM and the market will dictate that 24 hours. So the request would be that if market dictates that we would like to be able to do 24 hours. That being said, sorry. Go ahead. the the difference between a seven brew and in and out and i know you did not compare them um is the um the level of service and the quickness of service because we are not cooking food we are not preparing food it is a quick drink order that is immediately transferred to the kitchen our service times are extremely quick and so we move traffic through very rapidly completely understand and you are correct that is why we would like to be there is because the majority of our traffic is bypass traffic and if you're going to the gym or from the gym we would love to have you as a customer so um there is a synergy but i also understand the commission's concern about a conflict um i don't know if i answered your question

Your early morning hours are fine because In-N-Out doesn't even open till 10 or 11 in the morning. So you'll be able to do fine. You'll be competing with the health club more than anything else. And even the stores in the village don't really even open till 11 a.m. So there is that window of opportunity. But it is a very, very busy parking lot. And, you know, if everybody's going every which way direction, there may be days where they might not even be able to get to the cube until a few people move out of the way. That's how busy this particular parking lot can get. I can't. um confirm or deny that that actually happens early in the morning when you be open but that is going to be one of the challenges that you will face all right um commissioners do we have any other questions for sandra sandra um sandra uh

what for the east coast cities or metro areas where you have 24-hour service what's the population size generally of those metro areas i am going to look that up um but i did want to let you know that that seven brew does have some other potential sites coming um and we are so

Essentially, we would cannibalize off of the store to locate another store within the city. I would say 25% of our sites are 24 hour and population wise.

I'm still looking apologies.

I want to say, and I have somebody else online trying to help me out. I want to say about 75,000. Okay.

All right. Any other comments before we take public testimony, Sandra?

No, I'm, I am hoping that I answered all of your questions. And like I said, your concerns are valid. We, we deal with traffic at our other sites and we want to be a good neighbor. Um, and so we will, we will work with whomever is onsite or with city to, to ensure that we don't cause issues for, for the other tenants.

Okay. Thank you very much, madam clerk. Do we have anyone signed up to testify?

you madam chair no one has signed up and no one online is raising their hand um any other final thoughts sandra before we close the public hearing no thank you very much staff has been wonderful to work with um we know that it's difficult to have a new tenant that can um bring traffic but uh the conversations have been very helpful okay thank you very much i'm sure commissioner smith i do have one question i'm just ruminating on before we close the public hearing

Sandra, you mentioned cannibalization from other stores. I'm trying to square the circle between bypass traffic being the main driver and other stores cannibalizing traffic from here. There's a little bit of Are the stores a drawing point? How much of a drawing point versus how much bypass traffic? I know we said the majority is bypass traffic that you're expecting. Is that 51%? Is that 90%? Again, I don't need exact specifics, but those two statements seem kind of contradictory to me. I'm trying to understand.

They do approximately between 75 and 90% at some of our stores, depending on the access. So if it's a full signalized intersection, we usually will have more bypass traffic. This is right in, right out. immediately adjacent, but there are other avenues to access the site. So we are estimating approximately 75% bypass traffic at this site. That being said, that honeymoon period is when it is a complete draw. It is something new. And if we are to locate another store elsewhere, We are not necessarily creating new customers, but some of those customers will bypass. So these stores can be located fairly close together. And so some of those customers that were bypass traffic at our original store will be bypass traffic at our second store. And so that's where that cannibalization comes in of which store are they going to go to.

Thank you.

Can I get a motion to close the public hearing, please?

So moved.

It's been moved and seconded to close this public hearing for Seven Brew Coffee. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

I'll start off by saying I agree. I actually go to the gym in question that's right here. And I agree I'm not concerned about morning hours per se. Um, and I agree personally, I would love, I'm a big coffee guy. I'd love to be a customer, but I, I just really am struggling to make the math work out here. Um, I understand, um, this is a tier two and this meets tier two standards. Uh, however, I, I don't know that it fits the spirit of what a tier two is, uh, To use an analogy, if Chick-fil-A came in and put in one drive lane and all the tier two kind of accommodations in substance, I don't think that would magically render it tier two levels of traffic. I also don't know that a business plans to put that much capital down for new stores if they don't anticipate creating new customers and creating some sort of draw. And so I understand that this is a new brand. I understand it's near the West Coast. It's an interesting competitor in this space, but you look at some of the businesses that it's competing with and they have 16, 20 lanes. So I don't know that you get to a tier two justification just because you're resourcing the establishment less. And I think especially my concern is around midday and after. It's not a substitute product. versus In-N-Out, so it's not competing directly, but it is competing with traffic, especially in the evenings. You go to In-N-Out, even if the drive-thru line at In-N-Out is not busy, especially in the summertime, especially during spring break, that has become a third space for young people in Meridian, which I'm all for third spaces, but that can be a very dangerous corner. There's a dangerous part of the parking lot. Um, so, you know, I, I would love to see seven Bruin Meridian. I, I'm not even inherently opposed to this location, but right now I don't know that the concept has been proved out or proven out that this can sustain with just seven, seven spots or seven stacking, um, slots for cars. Um, and, and I really just am made uncomfortable by the lack of enforcement, um, The city has, it seems like our only recourse is to take away a potential solution to traffic overflow and not actually enforce better traffic flow. So I don't think I can support it at this time. I think I'll have to oppose. um and there are too many questions that continuance couldn't answer um i would encourage the applicant to keep looking at place at locations in meridian and we love having new business um i just don't know that this this application at this time at this location is the right fit madam chair commissioner jose mino

I share a lot of my fellow commissioners, Commissioner Smith's sentiments. I also use the gym facility at the village, the Villa Sport, particularly in the evening. I can't speak for the morning times either. I agree it does meet the standards of a tier two application. My concerns are also all transportation related. The applicants comments of the business providing quick service that that is great i'm glad that in their business models and in their stores throughout the you know the geographical mapping of where their other stores are located, they have seen quick service. my concern is that my and i'm going to assume because we're i want to imagine dutch bros style it's going to be staffed mostly by younger adults and there are days if their friends pass by in the drive-through they'll want to chat and talk and and then service isn't going to be as quick That parking lot, especially as Commissioner Smith stated with in and out also a younger crowd it's going to be even more crowded. As our valley and our city continues to grow and population grows with the. consistent growth in people moving here, I just you know it's the one. It's the one consistent concern of not only the citizens of this city, but many others who do business and work here and live here is the traffic and the congestion. You know, as pro-business as I am and welcoming as I am to new businesses bringing their business here to the city of Meridian, I do also have those concerns and will oppose this application for now.

Okay. Madam Chair, can I interject just for a moment? Sure. of give two thoughts to the Commission on this and that's certainly your prerogative to I think we're kind of looking at this as sort of one of two choices approve or deny but I just want to raise two thoughts with you one is you also have the ability to add or modify conditions to address concerns you might have so I'd encourage the Commission to and look at the conditions being proposed by staff. That's in section six, pardon me, section four of your staff report. So if there's a way, that's a third option is, rather to say yay or nay, it is to either modify conditions or add conditions that might address your concerns. And then related, period. The next thought is related to that. However, I just want to remind you under state law that if the commission does ultimately deny the CUP, which is your prerogative to do so, We also have a legal obligation to tell the applicant here's what you could do to bring back a project that would be approvable so. So i'd encourage you to think about conditions in both those contexts, one is that might be a third option available tonight, but even if you deny. The application, we need to be able to articulate what could the applicant do to bring back an application that would be acceptable and comply with the city's code, thank you.

Like to weigh in on this sure.

Sorry, Madam Chair, if I could just maybe piggyback on some of legal's comments. Certainly appreciate the conversation, understand the traffic impacts. We know that Fairview and Eagle Road is what the second or first busiest intersection in the state now. It's getting close anyways. It's up there. We understand those transportation challenges. would just want to just re emphasize for the Commission that the the project as proposed or presented is does meet code so I just want to be clear on that it does mean a tier tier one or excuse me a chair to drive the tier two drive-through standards looking at the staff report and kind of piggybacking on some of legal's comments, there is a condition of approval where staff has requested the applicant provide us a stacking exhibit. You know, they need to demonstrate if they do have more than seven vehicles, how are they going to address that? How are they going to make that up on the site? So that's something that staff has already conditioned as part of the CUP. However, we've conditioned it to at CCC level and not your level. So certainly if that's something you want to continue this application to say, hey, we have concerns with your stacking, how are you going to impact site circulation? We can continue your application and then you can demonstrate us how this is going to work if you do go over that seven and still not violate city code or end up putting people in that exit lane. I know staff has been part of a lot of these high-capacity drive-throughs, and I understand there's going to be a buzz around this, and there's going to be traffic when it first opens. As we know, over time, it kind of diminishes because there's either more openings or people just get used to it, and it just kind of works itself out. But there has been cases where we've had applicants work with the police department and figure out ways that we can control traffic and push traffic through And that's what happened with the Raising Cane site. So we have some abilities to add conditions and maybe mitigate some of your concerns. But certainly happy to, at least I want to give you some of that information as you deliberate on this application. Again, we're happy to sit down with the applicant again and maybe bring back something that gives you some assurances that it could potentially work or address some of the concerns that I've heard with site circulation, access, traffic, and maybe even competing hours of operation. Currently, I would mention there are no restrictions on hours of operation for the store, so that is something that you could also require assistance. As part of your purview is at a condition of approval that they operate between certain hours of the day as well to minimize some of those concerns.

So, I'm sure before I go into my. Not rant, but anyway, my state, in my opinion, kind of clarification question from Bill. So Bill, you said that staff has requested a diagram or a traffic flow, whatever, however you want to phrase it, as part of the application, or just that you said that we'd like to review it if this is approved?

Well, this thing doesn't stay on. Madam Chair, members of the Commission, so the condition reads, applicant shall submit an overflow stacking exhibit to show where additional cards will be placed if stacking exceeds the seven cards proposed. So under the ordinance, you have the ability to say if your stacking lane can't accommodate The vehicles, then you have to dedicate certain spots for overflow traffic to pull into parking stalls and they can walk those out to the customer. So we don't have those details for you tonight, but the code does. One of the provisions we wrote into the drive through standards did state that we could. Require that. And I think that's where staff landed. We have the, we have the police department having concerns. Staff is kind of on the fence with the seven, although it does meet the tier two meets the requirements of six or more. But again, if there's parking and they're able to dedicate, have some dedicated spots on site for overflow of the drive-through, then maybe that helps you guys understand how it can work in those high traffic periods. I don't know if that addresses your concerns, but it may if you can see there's three or four spots where customers can pull forward and they can deliver the goods and move forward.

Madam Chair, just for echo all that 100%, just for clarity, Bill talked about this earlier. He didn't reemphasize it, this last comment. But right now, the way that condition is worded is you would be approving the C.U.P., if you went down that path. And then staff would ask for that prior to the certificate of zoning compliance. As Bill mentioned a few minutes back, a different way to do that is you may want to see that before you make your decision. And so perhaps that's an alternative is to continue the hearing, get that information, and then you want to be the decision maker instead of having that come later after you've already approved a conditional use permit. So I just want to reemphasize that as another alternative or thought.

Thank you.

So, Madam Chair, I appreciate Bill providing that information. My initial reaction was it meets code. I have concerns because of my background regarding the transportation and also my personal frustration with trying to drive through parking lots. But the only thing that primarily raises a red flag for me on this is the 24-hour operation. That based upon the metro area populations or city populations that Ms. Fox shared with us, we have that population in our area. And so if that serves as a template, more than likely they're gonna go 24 hours. But I'm not sure them operating 24 hours is actually gonna be a problem overall in the parking lot and with the stacking in that area um and especially based upon my own personal driving leaving the airport coming back from the airport there's not that many people there at that time um the 24 hours they have to come back they have to come back to count they don't have to come back they could just change it yeah okay so um The main thing I have concerns about is the stacking. And so personally, I would like to see the traffic overflow plan before we take a position or before I vote yay or nay on this particular project. So I'm for continuance and asking them to provide that traffic overflow plan to us at a later date for our consideration.

Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

To that end, and I kind of also want to just get this on record, because I'm open to continuance. My opinion is never set in stone. But if this is continued, I also candidly, I didn't look too much into the Santa Rosa location. Being vague, I'm not an expert. I don't live in Santa Rosa, obviously. But having been and having some familiarity with the area, I don't know that there is a corridor where this could be in Santa Rosa that has similar daily traffic to Eagle. And so I would like to see, I guess, some more clarity in and maybe perhaps more comparable ways traffic studies, and I'd like to see those include, you know, vehicles per day or average daily trips, whatever the metric is, of those locations relative to this Eagle corridor. This is the busiest corridor in the state. I just, that is a major issue that I have is that, and I also would, Beyond just simple stacking, if there is additional mitigation regarding the parking spots, kind of if you go to a... McDonald's or the Culver's on Ustick, you know, there's the extra parking spots you can pull into an actual dedicated parking spots. If that is an option, how they would enforce that given kind of the nature of the evening traffic, evening crowd there. I think also my concern, yeah, 24-7, my concern is not 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. My concern is, I don't know, I can't give you a specific hour, but call it, you know, 6 p.m. to midnight. Right though that's the that's the time where i'm significantly concerned. And i'd like to see better mitigation specifically addressed to those hours, so I can't say that a continuance is going to significantly impact whether I think this is appropriate but i'm open to hearing the applicant come back if that's something that commit the rest of the Commission wants.

um question for staff did you say there were designated parking spots for this location did they have three specifically and then they would use the shared um parking lot if they needed more correct correct Kurt, is it appropriate for us to open the public hearing to address the applicant again to see if a continuance is something that they would consider? Or should we just go ahead and vote?

Madam Chair, I think you can do it either way. So if you'd like input from the applicant on how you may want to know how much time it would take to gather that information and what a convenient date would be. So if you would like to reopen the public hearing for that purpose, that would be fine. You don't... Commission independently decides you need additional information before you can make a decision. You can just do that, you know, laterally. That's your prerogative. You need all the information that is required before you can make an intelligent decision. So, I say if you want some input from the applicant as to, you know, clarity on what's being asked John Potter, Of them how much time would it take to prepare it what's a good date to have a second discussion that'd be appropriate to reopen the public hearing, but if you. John Potter, don't need answers to those things you could just unilaterally continue it until a date certain and be specific about what you are with what additional information you need to between now and the next the date of the next hearing sure so.

Question for Kirk. So regardless of whether we ask the applicant the question as far as can they do that or are they open to a continuance, process-wise, don't we have to reopen the public hearing anyway to do a continuance?

Yeah. Madam Chair, Commissioner Stoll, that's correct. So you're correct. We're going to have to open it for the continuance itself. I agree.

Yeah. Just want to make sure I understand the process.

Okay.

So, Madam Chair, if I may.

I'm taking my breath here for a second. Commissioner Stowell?

Unless you wanted to share anything. I move that we reopen the public hearing for this application. Seconded.

It's been moved and seconded to reopen the public hearing for Seven Brew. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. So Sandra, the public hearing is open again, so we can, you've been able to hear our conversation back and forth of some of the concerns for the commissioners. And Commissioner Smith, what was it that you really wanted to see again? Can you reiterate that please?

Sure, Madam Chair. So I think specifically mitigation plans for traffic in the PM hours. specific comparison data for traffic in comparable markets with comparable transportation grids and including average daily trip numbers and things like that. And additionally, I mean, I'd also like to know if there are any other stores that have limited hours, specifically limited evening operating hours, if that is something that Seven Brew is open to, what those boundaries are.

Sandra, would you like to respond? Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

We are willing to modify the hours of operation and take that off of the table so that we will not request that 24-hour operation and abide by the typical drive-through hours. We did submit a... an exhibit showing how many cars we could stack in that escape lane or the bypass lane as well as where cars could stack within that parking lot. We did not, however, we are willing to identify those parking stalls where we can park cars and bring orders out to So what you are asking for, we have essentially prepared minus the request for the average daily trips. But those are, we knew what the draft conditions of approval were. And so we were preparing that. And I believe we provided that to our planner who's not here this evening, but

Just to clarify something, Bill, or the question. So my understanding from what you said is if they use the overflow, the emergency lane, whatever, the overflow, whatever it's called, that's a violation of the CEP, right? And that would trigger... enforcement action or review of the CEP. Is that correct?

Madam Chair, members of the Commission, that is correct. As currently reviewed, we are saying that's the required escape lane per the specific use standards. But realizing that that the applicant is opening a new franchise. It could be popular for the first few months. I mean, obviously, we understand that we have to move traffic through there and we don't want to create an undue or any issues entering or exiting the site and stacking on Fairview. If that were to happen on an interim basis, probably not that big of a deal. Not saying it's not a violation, but it makes sense to do something in the interim to make sure that they can get through that opening period, that grand opening. But long term, that's not the solution. long term if that was to happen on a continuous basis from a year from now or after the the buzz wore off no pun intended um that would be a violation and we would probably say you need to come in and probably modify this to be a tier three if you're going if you want to use that as a stacking link or they could amend their application now and do that now and just get it approved and We can continue them, allow them to amend their hearing. We can go backwards, re-notice it for tier three, and we can go on to city council. There's many ways we can get there. It's just whatever you and the applicant want to do.

So I just want to make sure that the applicant understood that the use of the overflow lane is not a long-term solution. It's part of a mitigation plan. And I see she's got her hand raised.

Yeah, she did say that they did anticipate to use it for long term, just for the honeymoon period. Sandra, did you want to make a comment?

Yes, thank you. Exactly what I was going to say is that we completely understand and we do use that escape lane to move vehicles through. So if someone were to receive their order and they're third in line, they are able to use that escape lane, leave the line. and we are able to move additional cars in. So the escape lane actually helps us move vehicles through. Again, it would be in kind of that emergency situation where we know that we could be causing problems and we'd like to avoid that. But again, parking those cars, delivering drinks to them, that's our main goal.

So Madam Chair, members of the commission, I apologize. I appreciate the applicant saying that they provided that exhibit. Linda and I have not seen that. And she's right. Nick is the planner that was assigned. But Sandra, you have the ability to share your screen and share that with the commission. So if that's something you're willing to produce tonight, you can share that and they can take a look at it and see if they agree with you or not.

The magic of computers. Let me pull this up.

Madam Chair, while she's pulling that up, I do have a question for staff. If this work continued, would it be possible for staff to do a survey of drive-through coffee shops in Meridian and get an idea of what tier those would be classified as? And all things are possible, but is that, would that be an undue burden or is that something that seems like it would be achievable?

Adam chair members of the commission. It's, it's achievable. It just takes work. But I can tell you most of the Dutch bros that we worked on are tier three, just because they have dual drive-thrus and dual windows. So they automatically classify the fall into that, that, that classification or definition. So it's, I know a human being has some of those dual drive-thrus. So it really comes down to, Again, the premise behind a Tier 3 was that they were going to be the high-volume, high-capacity drive-through. So we were trying to counsel, wanted to act on those. And so that's why we had very specific standards on criteria for what classified a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. So any Tier 2 is basically one window, one stacking lane, one ordering point. A Tier 3 is two windows. two stacking lanes, two ordering points or a combination of that. So it could be still two ordering points, one stacking lane and two windows like a McDonald's. So that could still be classified as a tier three. So really it's, it's really meant to address some of those concerns. So that's why when we met with the applicant, we pre-app with them, they were very clear that they always intended to be a tier two. So that's why they've drawn the plan the way they've drawn it.

Commissioner, just a minute.

Just a quick question. A light bulb kind of came up in my head when you were mentioning the Dutch Bros. A similar location that I was considering that has a very tight area of parking and drive-through. Off the top of your head, Bill, do you know what classification the Black Rock on Fairview is considered? Uh, tier two, tier three, the black rock, I believe it's.

But the new one near, um, locust grove.

Yes. Yes.

Madam Chair, members of the commission, I think the important thing to remember here is at the time that these were approved, there was no tiered. It was a different ordinance. So that's the difference. Code has drastically changed from when those were approved to what we're talking about tonight. Because we wanted to have more express standards to make sure that we can minimize these conflicts. So that's why we've beefed up the standards to make sure that we could address all of these different drive-throughs. That's why I informed you that they do meet code. They're doing exactly what the code has asked them to do. That's why I want, as Kurt mentioned, Again, a conditional use permit allows you to add additional conditions to mitigate the concern. And so I would encourage you to go that route. It's a little bit more difficult to deny a conditional use permit. It's meant to mitigate a concern. And so you do that through conditions or getting more information so that you can make an informed decision on it. Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

I know the applicant has this open, so I want to just close the loop on this to... In the event of continuance, just to give guidance to staff, my goal isn't to necessarily get a raw tally and compare past developments to current developments. The thing that I'm struggling with is the idea that Tier 2 versus Tier 3 has no capacity measurement, and there's no way to judge if something... ought to be tier two or tier three rather than, you know, it is based on the characteristics of the building. And so I'm trying to get a better, I don't know, maybe it's something other than what I actually asked for, but I'm trying to get an idea of, The other comparable locations in Meridian seem like this is a new concept from the applicant's perspective. And so there might not be as much comparable information from that side. But getting an idea of the impacts of traffic, the impacts on traffic of these coffee shops in these locations based on the tiers, based on, you know, it doesn't doesn't matter. But I'm just trying to get a better feel for that. And I don't think we have that right now.

Madam Chair, members of the Commission, certainly there is. So a Tier 3 does have a minimum capacity. So you have to remember it's six vehicles per stacking lane. So if they have two stacking lanes, they have to accommodate a minimum of 12 vehicles. So that's the difference. A Tier 2 is six vehicles. Tier 3 is 12 vehicles and an escape lane. So there is a minimum standard there that we've built into the code.

And Madam Chair, to be clear, yeah, my goal is not design accommodation, but expected impact. And none of us are soothsayers, you know, we can't predict the future, but some, you know, that's the question I'm really after is not what is it designed for? Because again, like I mentioned, Chick-fil-A could come in and design a tier two, and I don't think that would be responsible. That's the main question at hand. I don't want to overload your plate with a bunch of research. You know, I guess that's just giving clarification around my ask of if there's anything that could help speak to that. If this does continue, that's just what I wanted to mention. But I don't want to know the applicant has been waiting patiently.

Well, and I think the challenge is, is that because the concept of the three tiers is relatively new to our city. And if you use Human Bean or BlackRock or Dutch Brothers, they were all approved under a different standard. And so you're really kind of comparing apples and oranges at that point in time. I'm not sure if a continuance would be in anybody's best interest, but like Bill said, maybe we put more conditions on there. The applicant was definitely open not to doing the 24 hours, but they would have the limited hours and that kind of thing. Sandra, can you hear me? I don't think she's on the line.

No, I am here. Yes, you are there.

Okay, so tell us what we're looking at.

Okay, so what you were looking at is one proposal. And as you know, you know the parking lot better than I do, but there are many drive aisles. And so the intent is to have traffic circulate a certain way through whether we have signage, whether we have employees that are directing traffic to a route that is the least impactful to the parking. So what you're seeing is our seven cars that are in the queue closest to the structure. There are the eight cars, which we know is not a permanent solution in the bypass lane and then I believe we have another 12 cars at least stacked in the drive-through lane. Knowing that these cars are not parked but they are moving extremely quickly through the queue, the potential for for impact or for incident is low. We also, as we stated, are looking or are willing to designate specific stalls for people to order and either use the bypass lane and park, or they have the ability to stay in the queue. So there are accessible parking stalls to the east as well as to the south. And so that is what we are looking at. And again, this was just one proposal of a possible layout of how additional cars can stack.

Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

Question for the applicant. Do you have any ability to, or do you have any rights to any of these parking spots to block them off as dedicated parking? Again, I think like McDonald's has just spots in their parking lot sometimes where you drive through and they say, hey, go to lane one or spot one and we'll run it out to you. Do you have the dedicated right, not like cross-access agreement or anything like that, but the ability to isolate and dedicate any of these spots and how many and which specific ones for overflow parking?

Sure. So the dedicated, as staff stated before, we have three dedicated parking stalls, one being ADA accessible. We do have the ability to state that these two parking stalls are specific for ordering or for waiting for orders. The remainder are through the cross-access and cross-parking agreements.

I'm sure.

Commissioner Stoll.

Just follow up on that, Sandra. So it's going to be stenciled saying just for Seven Brew parking?

No, we're not proposing that by any means. So this would be only in those cases where we are exceeding the queue.

Am I looking at this table correct? Maybe Linda can answer this question for me. There's no access to Fairview Avenue at all. It's only through this lane or road going between In-N-Out and Seven Brew. Is that correct? So there's no... I'm not seeing a likelihood of the stack going out onto Fairview or blocking...

highly unlikely it's going to be blocking fairview it's just an internal circulation for the parking lot itself is that we're concerned about okay madam chair mr smith um question for the applicant i know you mentioned being willing to to go to the 24 7 parking knowing that like again the 2 a.m to 4 a.m it for example wasn't the main concern i i'm curious about your locations and kind of their average close times. How early do some of your locations close? Is there a 25th percentile, 75th percentile? Do any of your locations close as early as 6 p.m.? For example, that's a core question of mine. I'm curious if you have any info on that.

No, none of our stores are closing that early. I shouldn't say none. I shouldn't say none. A very, if any, very limited. So maybe a handful.

Is typically 10 or 11 p.m. your closing time?

Absolutely. 5 a.m. to 11 p.m. And why we do that, we have a lot of shift workers, so whether it be first responders, hospital workers, those types of folks that usually come in prior to their evening shift or right after they get off in the morning.

Right. Any other final thoughts Sandra before we close the public hearing again?

No, I appreciate the, there was a statement that we were being patient, but no, we appreciate the conversation and the back and forth. We're happy to answer any questions. We would rather avoid a continuance if possible, just because we are on a quick build timeline. So we would be looking to obtain permits as soon as possible and hit the ground running. So thank you for your time.

May I get a motion to close a public hearing?

Madam Chair.

Excuse me. Commissioner Smith.

I think we should probably discuss if we would want to continue first or what the commission's position is. Because if there still was a desire to continue, I guess by any commission, not to deliberate before we vote, but then we'd have to open the public hearing again, I guess.

I don't see how she could really provide any new information. I mean, she provided the exhibit, which is what you asked for. You know, the hard thing for me is that you're, we're trying to put a crystal ball on something that we just don't know if it's gonna work or not, right? We already know the challenges of the area and she does too, otherwise, I mean, they want to be in a high visual, high impact area. And that's their choice. And the market will decide whether or not it's successful or not. I mean, if the queue is always going to be backed up and people get frustrated, they're not going to go. And that's going to be the end of that. But if the market is driven and people think that this is the best thing since sliced bread and they want to wait, then that's people's decision. It's not necessarily ours. So is there any new information that can be provided for you to make a decision, gentlemen?

Not from my standpoint. I have the information I need.

Okay. Commissioner Smith, are you okay with that?

Yeah, I think I'm able to make a decision tonight.

Okay. So with that being said, may I get a motion to close the public hearing?

So moved.

Seconded.

It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for Seven Brew. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. I'm going to take a little different view. I don't have a problem with this thing being here at all. I mean, having the runners coming through, they're going to hustle. They're going to move that coffee through. I think the first three to six months during that honeymoon period that kind of Bill mentioned that the stacking lanes, both the emergency and the regular are probably going to be full. And as they continue to open new locations, then you can get your seven brew someplace else and you don't necessarily have to go to the village for this point in time. I think their business model says that there's 400 customers average a day and their queue is usually 7.4 and their regular stacking lane can handle that. And then if you're number three out of seven and you get your drink first, then you pop through and you get out of there. So I think it complements the area because Thinking off the top of my head, I can't think of another coffee place within at least a half a mile to this, whether you're down on Eagle or on Fairview. And like she said, they want the visibility. They want to be there. And the market will decide whether or not people get too frustrated with this queue. And if they do, they'll stop going, period. And let the market decide whether or not that this is the right space for this. Um, I don't think there's really a lot of things that go 24 hours in the city of Meridian. We're just really haven't been that community up until this point in time. Um, maybe as we continue to grow as a city, there, there may be more needs for, um, 24 hour services, but, uh, you know, pulling up the carpet and shutting off the lights is not necessarily a bad thing either. So, you know, I'm in favor of this application. I think, um, I don't drink coffee, so I'm not your customer. And so I really couldn't say that, uh, You know, I would be waiting, but even if the kids were coming through, they don't want to wait either. So they're going to want to get their drinks. They're going to move through. There's no place to go. You can't even go to the restroom in there. And their business model looks like based on their application is they take your drink, you get it and you get out. So I know that both you and Commissioner Gelsomino and Commissioner Smith, you use the space more as a consumer for other things there. And so I understand your hesitation based on just the geographics and the challenge of the village itself. But they have a right to be in that space. It's not necessarily our decision on what should go there. And you got to be careful what you wish for because it could be, if you would deny this, then the next application could be something worse. So, but I think it's a good fit for the area. Commissioner Stoll, did you have some additional comments?

So Madam Chair, the applicant, after we reopened public testimony, answered my question as far as the mitigation plan. And in looking at the layout of the parcel, my other concern as far as having any impact upon traffic on Fairview, that's been eliminated. They have met the requirements of city code. The only addition that I'd have is that the staff As far as a condition would just be that the staff approved the mitigation plan prior to it. Certificate of the opportunity. Yeah. So I'm in favor of it. So. Madam chair. I'm not sorry.

Madam chair. Um, yeah, I just, I'm not in a position where I can support this tonight. I think, um, and in terms of naming specific things, I think the, um, I, I, I think the mitigation plan, um, is inadequate for the type of business in this type of location. Um, when the average, um, of this business, uh, you know, stacking lanes is about 12. even accounting for those extra slots, so you get nine, seven stacking in the lane and you get these nine, two parking spots, that's still 25% less than average. Again, not to beat a dead horse, but if in and out of Chick-fil-A, if so many of the Raising Cane's came in and designed for seven cars in a stacking lane with one drive aisle, I think a lot of the commission would understand that's an irresponsible choice for that location. and and i'm not comparing this to directly to those but there is a line somewhere um i think from what limited knowledge we have based on the applicants numbers themselves show that they tend to plan for higher numbers they tend to plan for higher traffic the fact that they're looking at expanding in the area shows that they're anticipating enough traffic to justify what's ostensibly likely a large capital expenditure, right? I think, and I don't want to in any way insinuate that I think the applicant is being disingenuous, but I think there's a lot of, there's your stated preference and there's your revealed preference, right? There's your stated, what you claim to believe in or what you do believe, and then what your actual behavior as an individual or as a company, And I think there's a disconnect there, and I don't think that's intentional. I'm not saying the applicant is doing anything subversive or anything like that. I just think that the concept, the numbers haven't proven themselves out to where this is justified to be designed as a tier two. I don't know that that is the case when a lot of these comparable locations are tier threes. They designed for tier threes. They plan for tier three traffic. And a lot of those places aren't even on our busiest arterial in the state. So I think there's a lot of significant issues there. I think also regarding our role, it is not our place to tell this applicant whether there deserves to be this here. Our role is to mitigate externalities, mitigate the impact on the community, whether that's on Fairview or whether that's to local business owners. We have just as much of a duty to those local business owners the same way that we have a duty to residents to ensure that residential development is – planned reasonably to not have an undue burden on the area as part of the staff analysis. And so I think I just can't get to a spot. Potentially there's some stuff in the continuance that maybe it could change my mind. I don't know that the applicant would be amenable to it. I just, I don't know that I can support without having seen prior track record of this type of this concept which is new to this to the west coast or new to the western u.s um in comparable locations with comparable you know average daily trips uh you know and comparable hours i wouldn't be comfortable doing that without significantly limiting pm our operation so i can't support it i understand the rest of the commission's position i just i i have again with the inability to claw back any of that approval and only eliminate solution opportunities if they're using the emergency access too much, we can only hinder them more. We can't force them to alleviate the traffic better. And so that gives me significant pause for anything that is operative in perpetuity. So those are the reasons I'm opposed.

Commissioner Gelsomino, no pressure or anything.

Madam chair I don't have to make it you don't I mean I just need to know like where you're where you're thinking I'm evenly torn unfortunately the the policy side of me says it checks the boxes the citizen side of me when I saw the applicants diagram that she pulled up my you know, the hair on the back of my neck stood up because I immediately started seeing all the cars lined up. And my thought was, okay, I get to the gym by four 35 o'clock. I spin around and around and around and around trying to find an open spot to park. Uh, And by the time I find a parking spot, it's time for me to go home and make dinner. So and I didn't even get to go to the gym and work out. So it just as much as I would love to see that dirt plot filled, because especially during rainy, terrible weather, kids like to drive through it and spray mud everywhere. It just becomes a muddy sinkhole. The congestion is just something I cringe at. But again, the policy side of me says it checks the boxes. The citizen side of me starts to think it's going to impact the clientele of, you know, Villa Sport and others who are using that or whose clients, other businesses whose clients use that particular parking spot.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, there is a high probability that we're going to be split. We can vote and, and achieve that. Or do we continue it to have another commissioner present so that we can have a meaningful vote?

Madam Chair, I think both options are possible. You can call for a vote this evening, but if you feel like, you know, the commission's not there that, you know, based upon your deliberations so far that that's not going to be productive, I think you also have the option to continue and have a fifth and or sixth commissioner here as well. So I think you can do it either way. Traditionally, I would say we typically would call for a vote and confirm there is a tie before we, you know, continued and waited for a fifth vote, but I think you could do it either way. Okay.

Madam chair.

Commissioner.

Oh, after consider. Just making sure the mic's on.

Yes, I know. Got a lot of little gremlins tonight.

After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve file number H-2026-0017 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of June 18, 2026, with the following modification, that the... mitigation, traffic mitigation report be reviewed by staff and approved prior to a certificate of occupancy being issued?

I second that. It's been moved and second to approve the conditional use permit for Seven Brew Coffee. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any denies?

No.

So we are officially tied.

So Madam Chair, I may have a question for you as chair, but your colleagues, fellow commissioners may have an opinion as well. So I think you have two choices now. We've confirmed there's a 2-2 tie, and so you do need a fifth commissioner to break that tie. So my question to you is, if you want to allow additional information into the record when your fifth commissioner is present, then you'd likely want to open the public hearing again, continue it, so that you have an opportunity for your fifth commissioner to ask questions and bring new information into the record. That's choice number one. I would lean slightly in that direction, but also you could just continue with, we're just going to... delay the vote and tell you how your fifth commissioner present and not take any more information into the record. That's a possibility as well. I would lean, I'm going to ask my colleague, Mr. Parsons, if he has an opinion about that. I kind of lean toward a lot, if you're going to have a brand new commissioner present, it would probably be fair for that individual to be able to ask some additional information if they needed to, in which case you'd want the opportunity for the public hearing to be opened. Bill, do you have any opinions about that?

chair members of the commission i i concur with you with legal i think it's fair to the process ask for a continuance obviously you need to get more information and we need to get another commissioner here to vote on it so i i agree with that okay and i'm not sure if i can ask this question of just generally of the commission are there other conditions that would sway their vote that they want to offer right now

I mean, we're open to make a new motion as well.

Madam chair. Commissioner Smith. I have them written down. I'm happy to make that motion for continuance or commissioner. So if you have, if you'd like me to offer, give you information so you can make the. Not only continue. I'm just asking if anybody has any conditions that they. I have three that could potentially change my mind or yes. Three that could potentially change my mind for a continuance. Continuance.

I think at this point I'd like some input from the applicant. And then when we open the public hearing, Commissioner Smith, you can reiterate that to Sandra. So that way when we do have another commissioner here, they can tailor their presentation to those bullet points that you would like clarification on. Is that fair? Yep. I get a motion to open the public hearing for file number H2026-0017. So moved.

Second.

It's been moved and seconded to open public hearing for Seven Brew. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Sandra. Commissioner Smith is going to list a few concerns that he has, and we would like to continue this application so that we may have more commissioners here so that we can make a thoughtful decision for this conditional use permit. Do you, Madam Clerk, what dates might be available for this application to be heard again?

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have July 2nd or July 16th. Those are the dates for July. Do you want me to look at August as well?

Let's ask Sandra if either of those dates can work for her.

Yes, July 2nd would be fine.

Okay, so that date's available. And Commissioner Smith, would you like to share with her some of the things that you would like to hear in the next presentation?

Sure. I mean, I could also just make a motion to continue. I guess I can provide them to you, and if none of them are feasible, you can let me know. But I have written here the average number of cars that are designed to stack in the 25th median and 75th percentile of your locations. Okay. So the average stacking at the 25th, 50th, 75th. The daily trips, average daily trips, of um the roadways on which your uh your comparable locations um are located at the 25th median and 75th percentile um a number and or percent of stores closing at or before 6 p.m and 8 p.m um and then the others the only other one is for the ask from staff are any of those unfeasible

No, they're not unfeasible. I would ask, are there specific numbers that you are looking for so that we may make conditions of an approval so that if the average daily trips on the roadway are X and the 25th, 50th, 75th percentile meet a specific number, can staff then approve it?

Yes, I guess for your information, if, for example, your stacking numbers are significantly higher than this, I would, for me to support, I would need to see a design that even though Tier 2 is 6+, I would want to add more conditions to have non-emergency stacking that is at more of a commensurate level. So that would probably need to redesign. So that's what I'm looking for. And if your numbers are significantly lower and I'm off base, I'm happy to approve. So that's why I'm asking. I just need the math to math out.

And what I am asking is, do you have specific numbers in mind that we can give to staff so that the... the project can be conditionally approved if we meet these specific criteria.

And that way it's- Yeah, I think it's the totality of information. And so we would decide that at the continued hearing.

Okay, so your answer is no, you're not willing to put those numbers down so that if we can show staff that we meet them before that July 2nd date.

No, I would just like to see those maybe as additions to the staff report or as appendices or something like that would help me in my decision.

Sandra, he's just one commissioner, so everybody has their own threshold of what is acceptable for your stacking lane. So that is something that he would like to see, but there is no magic number saying if it's 7.4, then you're for sure in whatever the average is that he would like to see. And then based on that information, we can make a better decision.

Understood, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Kurt, do we... Do we motion a continuous in the public hearing or do we close it at this point?

So Madam Chair, the recommendation both from Mr. Parsons and myself would be to continue the public hearing until July 2nd. So to continue it, that would give you the opportunity on July 2nd to receive more information into the record, including from the applicant, but also give your 5th Commissioner and or 6th Commissioner an opportunity to ask questions and get that material into the record as well. So I'd recommend that you continue the hearing tonight until July 2nd.

May I get a motion to continue the public hearing for Seven Brew Coffee to July 2nd?

Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

After I moved to continue. Sorry, this isn't the file number. I moved to continue file number H-2026-0017 to the date of July 2nd for the following reasons. To allow, I'll start with this one, to allow staff to gather information regarding uh, comparable, uh, comparable locations or comparable, uh, developments in, within the city of Meridian. Um. including stacking and or traffic numbers, whatever is reasonable under staff's purview. And then to allow the applicant to provide data, including the average number of cars that are designed to stack in non-emergency lanes across their locations to the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentile, the number and or percent of stores closing at or before 6 p.m. and 8 p.m., data showing the average daily trips on transit corridors where their stores are located to the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentile stores. And 75th percentile.

Do I have a second?

Seconded.

It's been moved and seconded to continue Seven Brew Coffee. with the aforementioned reasons for July 2nd. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you for your patience, Sandra. Does anybody need to take a quick break or are we ready to carry on? All right, we're going to move on. Item number four on the agenda is item number H2025-0048 for Blueberry Hills subdivision requests annexation and a preliminary plat at 4315 North 10 Mile Road. And we will begin with the staff report.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the commission. The next application before you is a request for annexation and zoning and a preliminary plat. This site consists of 8.87 acres of land. It's owned RUT Rural Urban Transition in Ada County. It's located at 4315 North 10 Mile Road on the west side of 10 Mile midway between Eustick and McMillan Roads. A little history on this property. In 2008, an amendment to the future land use map and the comprehensive plan was approved that changed the designation of the subject property from mixed use wastewater treatment plant to office and low density residential. The current comp plan future land use designation is office, 1.65 acres of the site along 10 Mile Road and low density residential. which is 7.25 acres on the western portion of the site. That designation allows three or fewer dwelling units per acre. The applicant is requesting annexation of 9.36 acres of land with R4 zoning, which is 7.22 acres of the site, and LO zoning, which is 2.14 acres of the site, for the development of 20 new single-family residential homes with four office buildings along the frontage of 10 Mile, as shown on the concept plan. The proposed uses and residential density of 2.77 units per acre is consistent with that anticipated in the comprehensive plan for this property. A preliminary plat is concurrently proposed to subdivide the property into 24 building lots, that's 20 residential and four commercial lots, and 12 common or other lots on 8.87 acres of land. The plat is proposed to develop in two final plat phases due to the city's inability to provide sewer service at this time to the five western lots in phase two. And that is, if you can see these purple ones right down here, those are the ones we're talking about. Lost my place. Just one moment. The project lies within two different sewer sheds. The white drain trunk shed will provide service for phase one and phase two will be served by the black cat trunk shed once sewer infrastructure becomes available. There is an existing home and accessory structures on this property that will be removed with development. There is also an existing access easement and driveway from 10 Mile Road across proposed lots one through six block one that currently serves the home that will be removed and two other properties. So the home that will be removed is located in this area right here and That home, the home on this property, and the home up here to the northwest all have access from that access easement here from 10 Mile Road. The easement will be vacated with the proposed plat and the driveway will be removed with development. Access will be provided for the two remaining properties via an access easement and common driveway on lot six, block one. And that is this lot right here. When those properties redevelop in the future, the access easement should be vacated and driveway removed and the area landscaped. One local street access is proposed via North 10 Mile Road for the development in alignment with West Belltower Drive, a collector street on the east side of 10 Mile. Stub streets are proposed to adjacent properties to the north, south, and west for future access and interconnectivity upon redevelopment of those parcels. A drive aisle stub is proposed to the south from the office development on the east end of the site, which will serve as a backage road along north 10-mile road and connect to the drive aisle being constructed to the south with 10-mile storage. And that will be in this location right here. Cross access ingress egress easements should be provided between all commercial lots in the subdivision and to the property to the south. A conceptual redevelopment plan was submitted as shown as requested by staff for the two out parcels adjacent to this site that shows how they could possibly redevelop in the future with access from proposed local streets in the subdivision. A 25 foot wide landscape street buffer is required along 10 mile road and a 10 foot wide buffer is required along bell tower drive on the yellow zone lots as shown on the landscape plan. landscaping is required in accordance UDC standards along internal pedestrian pathways and within common open space areas. A minimum of 12% or point eight seven acres qualified open space is required to be provided in the are for district. 15% or 1.08 acres is proposed exceeding the minimum standard, which includes 50% of the street buffer along 10 mile road and open space areas within the development, including a large pond and linear open space areas as shown on the exhibit before you. Based on the area of the development, site amenities totaling a minimum of one point are required. Walking paths in a picnic area on a site greater than 5,000 square feet in size are proposed totaling two points exceeding UDC standards. Conceptual building elevations were submitted for the proposed single family residential detached dwellings as shown that represent the quality of development proposed. Conceptual building elevations were not submitted for the future office buildings. These buildings should be designed to comply with the design standards in the architectural standards manual. No letters of testimony were received from the public on this application. The applicant did submit a response to the staff report that they are in agreement with staff's recommended conditions of approval. Staff is recommending approval with the requirement of a development agreement with the provisions noted in the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions. The applicant is here to present tonight.

The applicant would like to come forward. The mouse if the mouse is not working, try your arrows. Yeah, would you?

Okay. Sorry, it's not it's a little funky. She's sensitive. Okay, we're ready. All right, thank you. Madam Chair, members of the Commission, hello and good evening. For the record, my name is Sabrina Durchey. I am here on behalf of the applicant, and my business address is 5179 South Boven Avenue, Boise, Idaho, 83716. And this evening, I have the honor and privilege of presenting to you our applications for Blueberry Hills subdivision. So, first, I'd like to welcome you to Blueberry Hills. Blueberry Hills is envisioned as a thoughtfully designed upscale infill community that brings together attractive single family residential lots with complimentary light office uses within a tree line setting. The two uses have been intentionally planned to complement one another with the office component fronting 10 mile road and providing a natural transition into the quieter residential portion of our community. This rendering that you're seeing shows the primary entrance into our light office portion of the development from 10 Mile. You can see the entry monument, layered landscaping, and natural materials that all have been intentionally designed to create a strong sense of arrival, but also super welcoming. So as you enter the community from West Bell Tower Drive, you'll pass through the light office portion of the development. Parking is located behind the office buildings, keeping it largely screened from the main entrance and creating a more attractive streetscape along 10 Mile Road. The rear parking area also provides additional separation between the office buildings and the residential portion of the community. Beyond the parking lot, generous landscape buffer provides another layer of screening and helps create a comfortable but gradual transition to the adjoining single-family homes. As we move along beyond the light office buildings and the parking area, you arrive at our residential portion of Blueberry Hills. The monument shown here clearly signals the transition and creates a distinct entrance into the neighborhood. Its materials, colors, and design elements were intentionally coordinated with the light office monumentation so the two entrances really complement one another. Together, the signs create a cohesive identity for Blueberry Hills, reinforces the sense that the office and residential components were planned as one harmonious, thoughtfully designed community. Here's an overall view of the entire site, really showing our main entrance to the light office tucked along 10 Mile, and then the transition into our residential portion of the site. From this perspective, you can see that the office and residential components are distinct, but they're also intentionally planned as one cohesive development. So getting to the nut and bolts of our project, Blueberry Hills, we're requesting annexation, zoning of LO and R4, and a preliminary plat. We are asking for four light office lots, 20 single family lots, and 11 common lots. Our gross density will be 2.77 units per acre, and our diverse residential lot sizes will range from 8,000 square feet up to 12,270 square feet. As Sonya has mentioned, the current comprehensive plan designates the site as low density and light office. And as you can see, our layout perfectly matches up to the comp plan designation for this area. So I always like for us to take a step back and to better understand how this site really fits within the area. It's really important to take a closer look at the surrounding context in detail. So immediately north of the site, we have Drawbridge Subdivision, a nine lot, low density residential neighborhood, along with two unincorporated Ada County parcels that are directly adjacent to our application. Farther north is Volterra Development, which includes a mix of residential and commercial uses. To the east, we have Bridge Tower Crossing Subdivision. This is a medium-density development featuring a mix of single-family homes and complementary commercial uses along 10 Mile Road. The southern boundary of the site is adjacent to, which is currently being constructed, 10 Mile Storage Development, as well as the City of Meridian's Wastewater Resource Recovery Facility. And then to the west, we have parcels that are currently owned by the City of Meridian. So the surrounding context illustrates that Blueberry Hills is well-suited for this location. The proposed office uses along 10 Mile respond to the more active demand of the corridor, while the residential portion of the development provides a compatible transition toward the established neighborhoods to the north and to the east. Together, the proposed uses create a thoughtful connection between residential, commercial, and municipal, and storage uses that are already present in this area. As we've discussed, we're requesting two zones. So based on the comprehensive plan, which is really our guiding document, we are requesting LO highlighted in purple, and then our R4, low density, which is in yellow. And Sonya touched on this, but this is an infill site and we would typically do this in one phase, but unfortunately the site is kind of like bisected by two trunk shed boundaries. So 15 lots will be within phase one that will be served by the white drain trunk shed and the remaining five lots will be served by the black cat trunk shed once sewer is available. Now I'd like to walk you through the homes within Blueberry Hills. The elevations here illustrate the architectural character envisioned for the residential portion of this community. The community will include a mix of single story and two story homes with varied roof lines, garage configurations, and front entry features that create a visual interest throughout the neighborhood. Although the individual homes will offer a range of styles and floor plans, they will all share kind of a cohesive design language. Elements such as board and batten, siding, masonry accents, metal awnings, decorative gables, and warm wood details really establish the upscale timeless character envisioned for our community. Usable open space is a top priority, forming the foundation for our community's amenities, pathways, and overall connectivity. Blueberry Hills provides 1.07 acres of qualified open space. And then, are we have for pathways the connectivity and walkability is also a priority within our little infill development. Blue depicts our existing sidewalk and long 10 mile road purple depicts our five foot Community sidewalks and orange depicts are five foot micro pathways for a total of 660 linear feet. This slide really illustrates the overall amenity and landscape framework and vision for blueberry hills and highlights the amenities and overall theme and design for our Community. Our primary amenity area is located in the northwest portion of the Community and is really designed to serve as a welcoming gathering space for residents. The concept plan includes a pond style water feature with benches a covered picnic pavilion and open lawn area that can support both active and passive recreation. The pond here becomes a centerpiece for our little infill development and allows for a beautiful view and open space for the lots that back onto it. And this slide shows a great perspective at the very edge of the open space and shows the beautiful flow of the pathways and amenities that surround the pond. And I do wanna note that these amenities will be built within phase one. And then within this slide, you can see our covered picnic shelter. We've also incorporated a blueberry patch into the amenity area, because why not, to offer a unique feature that reinforces the identity and character of our community. And the amenity area is connected with surrounding homes by sidewalks and pathways, allowing residents to comfortably walk throughout the neighborhood and access the open space. And just to quickly summarize, we feel that Blueberry Hills is really a thoughtfully planned, high quality infill community. And it's designed to provide a balanced blend of attractive housing options, functional and inviting open space, and intentionally designed gathering areas that encourage connection and create a strong sense of place. This project all together is Complementary residential and light office uses within a cohesive, well-landscaped setting. With its distinctive architecture, generous landscaping, connected pathways and amenities, and coordinated entry features, we feel that Blueberry Hills will create an attractive, welcoming, and enduring addition for the City of Meridian. And again, we wanted to thank staff for their help and coordination for this application. We're in full agreement with the staff report. And I would like to thank you all for the pleasure of your time, your thoughtful consideration, and respectively request a recommendation of approval to City Council this evening. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Commissioner, do we have any questions for Sabrina before she sits down?

Madam Chair.

Commissioner Giacomino.

Sabrina Thank you for your presentation this evening I you know they're very elegant homes and as a former parks, Commissioner, I always enjoy amenities that are interactive such as the the blueberry patches that you'll be implementing in this design, just as a quick and sing only question I have for you. Have the owners of the Elk Bugle Lane properties been formally notified that the current easement access will be vacated at final plat recordation and have they consented to the new common driveway arrangement?

Yes, Madam Chair, Commissioner, that's a great question. So I did not handle the neighborhood meeting, but it was discussed then. And when I came on to project manage to be planner for this project, I was adamant that we need to reach out to the neighbors. I set up a meeting with Kevin, me, one of the neighbors. Unfortunately, the other neighbor was having surgery. We went to the house. brought down the plans. Um, they seem very amenable to it. Um, and of course, um, during construction, there'll be a lot of coordination with the neighbors to make sure everything goes as smoothly as possible. So we have reached out to them. Um, I have not heard from any of the neighbors. Um, the one person, um, Mr. Um, Darren, I told Kevin, you know, after surgery, if he wants to reach out to me, I'm happy to come down again and meet with them. I haven't heard anything. So, um, That's as far as the communication has gone. So yes.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Madam Chair.

Commissioner Smith.

I know you just said that you didn't actually handle the neighborhood meetings. I didn't, no. Were there any other concerns brought up by any residents at the neighborhood meeting? Any discussion of any?

Yeah. Madam Chair, Commissioner. As far as I'm aware, no. I think that they were really pleasantly happy that we're asking for a low density. They're going to be larger lots. And again, we have a lot of storage bias, a lot of commercial. It's already developed. So I don't think that they received a lot of opposition. I think I would have heard or staff would have heard if there was. But again, I wasn't there. So I can't give you exact information.

Thank you.

All right, thank you very much. Yes, thank you.

Madam Clerk, do we have anybody signed up to testify?

Excuse me. Thank you, Madam Chair. We have Lynn Carrillo.

OK. All right, anybody else on Zoom? I have Larry Bowman. You're good? OK.

And Madam Chair, no one online is raising their I'm sorry, excuse me, I do have Ted Burke that did sign up online and he is present.

Okay, okay.

Ted, did you wish to say anything?

Yeah, I'm just here as the civil engineer for the project. So I was standing by if if anybody had any questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Sabrina, did you want to add anything else before we close the public hearing? Are you good? No, I think we're good. May I get a motion to close the public hearing, please?

Moved. Second.

It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for Blueberry Hill subdivision. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

I'm sure.

Commissioner Smith.

I don't know if you quite classify this as infill, maybe on the border of infill, but it's not normal that you see it's a project in this kind of proximity to existing neighborhood neighbors be so, you know, well received. So I'm in support. I don't see any issues. I think this is really thoughtfully designed and it's a good transition space from the main road into lower density areas.

I agree.

Seems pretty reasonable support.

Great.

All right. I'll take a motion.

Madam chair.

Commissioner Smith.

After considering all staff applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend approval. The City Council file number H-2026-0048 as presented in the staff report. Seconded.

It's been moved and seconded to recommend approval to City Council for Blueberry Hill subdivision. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much. Our next item on the agenda is H 2025 dash 0025.

The office building and associated improvements remain on the property. Comprehensive plan future land use map designation is low density residential on the western 50 acres and medium density residential on the eastern 26 acres. The low density designation allows for the development of single family residential homes on large and estate lots at gross densities of three units or less per acre. The medium density residential designation allows for residential dwellings at gross densities of three to eight units per acre. The applicant is proposing a new development agreement for the proposed development, which includes an additional 26 acres of land to the east and a new development plan for the overall development. This property will no longer be subject to the original mills development agreement, the proposed development plan is for 321 single family residential homes and office uses on 75 acres of land. The annexation of 27.11 acres of land is proposed with R15 zoning, which consists of 2.74 acres, and LO zoning, which is pass their buyers into spectators, and then these spectators become friends.

And then we have the playground. And you know the playground