City Council Committee - Regular Meeting

All right, good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Memphis City Council Planning and Zoning Committee. Today is Tuesday, September the 1st. Gia, would you please call the roll?

Yes, sir. Councilman Canale. Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton.

Present.

Councilman Ford. Councilwoman Green. Councilman Smiley. Chairwoman Swearingen-Washington. Present. Councilman Walker. Councilman Dr. Warren.

Present.

Councilwoman White. Present. Chair Spinoza.

I'm here. All right, a few housekeeping items for committee today. Item number three and six are both going to be held until our next council meeting, which is the 15th. So we'll have those back again. And then we're going to move item number nine. the update on data center zoning requested by Councilwoman Cooper, so we're gonna move that to the last item on the agenda for the committee today. So with that, item number one, we'll read it for the record. A resolution approving an honorary street name change on Union Avenue between Dunlap Street and Manassas Street for Shelby County Mayor Lee Harris in recognition of his dedication and lifelong commitment to Shelby County, District Six, Super District Eight, sponsored by Councilwoman Green. There is a request for same nine minutes. Councilwoman Green.

Thank you, Chair. As you know, just yesterday, Mayor Lee Harris's term ended, and I had the distinct honor of working directly for him and then underneath him for the last six years. And he is a former member of this body, and I hope that I can have the council's support in recognizing and dedicating this street in his name.

Thank you, Councilwoman. Anyone else want to comment on this? Need a motion and a second? All right, moved by Councilwoman Green, seconded by Councilman Smiley. We'll go to a voice of vote. All those in favor, please respond by saying aye. Anybody against? Is that a nay? All right, we got a nay from Councilman Warren. We got two nays. All right, so we're going to go to a roll call vote because I heard two audible yeses and two noes. Excuse me, Councilman Ford? All right, so we'll go to a voice vote or we'll go to an actually individual vote on this.

Any discussion, Mr. Chairman?

Yeah, discussion.

You know, I tried very hard to have the mayor call a group together to discuss how we're spending money on regional one. Our council voted, asked them to spend money on regional, to talk about it, have a public discussion. It never occurred. I went and spent hours and hours begging the mayor to do this. And so I really don't feel good about recognizing him as much as I really love my colleague. So I expect to be voted down on this, but I couldn't in good conscience vote for it. Thank you.

All right. Anybody else want to speak on this? No. All right.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right, thank you, Councilman Ford. I'm going to send this downstairs without objection. I'm going to send this downstairs without a recommendation, and we can vote on it downstairs. Any objection to that? All right, there are none, so that's what we'll do for item number one. All right, item number two, a joint ordinance submitting the Memphis-Shelby County Building Home Program, all council districts sponsored by the administration. There is a request to add on consent agenda for the first reading. All right, Director Ragsdale.

So moved.

All right. This ordinance was moved by Councilman Warren, seconded by Councilman Canale. Director Ragsdale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Brett Ragsdale with the Division of Planning and Development. So this is a program that came through City Council last year and was approved for, it's called the Building Home Program. It's through our Housing Department. And it also is a joint ordinance with the County Commission. These are just a few updates to that that have already gone through County Commission and were approved there. And so since it's a joint ordinance, we want to bring those to this body as well. So the first amendment is to allow for an administration fee if we need to in the future if it becomes a large program, a $75 fee per application that we would be able to charge to recoup some administration costs. And then the next ones are to the actual implementation plan. So the ordinance had an implementation plan that was attached to it that governed how we administer the program. And these are mostly just corrections, just some housekeeping. So the first is just to change the URL to remove some of the specifics and just to go to our website so that in the future if we change websites it will not be a problem. And then the next couple, let's see. Frozen here. The next is just changing the deed type. So we originally had it as a warranty deed but a lot of these properties come through the land bank and the way they transfer those is by a quick claim deed and not warranty and then just some housekeeping with some of the text. And the next, I'll just explain this, so this is freezing up, but the next is to allow the Shelby County Board of Commissioners to waive any and all back taxes on these properties so that they can be conveyed to potential developers without the taxes being associated with that. And then the other is just a housekeeping, adding a five bracket. And those are the amendments, and I apologize, there, they're up here. So I'm happy to answer any questions or try to get this slide to where it will show the.

All right, thank you, Director Ragsdale. Any comments or questions? All right, motion was made and properly seconded for this ordinance. We'll go to a voice vote. All those in favor, please respond by saying aye. Aye. Anyone against? All right, the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. So number two will go down with a positive recommendation. Item number three held. We'll go to item number four. This is PD number 2026-005, District 1, Super District 9, sponsored by the administration. This is in Councilwoman Logan's district, if I'm not mistaken? Correct. Yeah, all right. Is there a motion? All right, moved by Canale, seconded by J.B. Excuse me, Councilman Smiley. He just beat Councilman Warren, I think, to second it. All right, go for it, Dr. Ragsdale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Brett Ragsdale with the Division of Planning and Development. So this is a proposal for 15 townhomes on Covington Pike. And it originally came to the Lanes Control Board as a subdivision. It was going to be, I believe, seven single-family lots. And once they got into the project, they looked to revise that. So they changed that to a planned development to allow... 15 townhomes and There were some opposition to the original because it was connecting back to a residential street in the rear here if you can see well Mouse is not wearing but there was a connection to the residential neighborhood this eliminates that connection and it only connects to Covington Pike and So it eliminated that, so it eliminated some of the opposition to the original case. And so we've talked with Councilwoman Logan about this, because she's aware of this. Cool.

All right, so motion's been made, properly seconded. I believe everybody's in favor of this. I'm going to recommend that it goes downstairs with a positive recommendation, without objection. But if you could have everybody ready to see a proposal.

Yes, and we did recommend approval, and Lane's Control will recommend approval as well.

Okay. Yeah, so Councilman Canale wants to see it. So can they be ready to do that when we vote on it? What, next, yeah, on the 15th?

In two weeks.

Yeah, so in two weeks, we'll have them ready to give us a presentation for item number four. But without objection, it'll go downstairs with the positive recommendation. And we'll anticipate that presentation. All right, thank you. That's it on item four. And then item number five, PD 2026-007. That's District 4, Super District 9, sponsored by the administration.

I made it.

Motions made by Dr. Warren, seconded by Councilwoman Swearingen-Washington. And I believe that is actually in her district. All right, so motions are made properly, seconded by Director Ragsdale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So yes, this is a proposal for, another proposal for 15 lot residential plan development in the Cooper Young neighborhood. And so it's on Tanglewood and Elsie. And it is a vacant property now with an existing building that they are proposing to demolish and develop this into the 15 lot townhomes. Here we go. So there's the vacant building. Here's some site photos. This did come with a favorable recommendation from DPD and the Lanes Control Board.

All right. Thank you, Director Ragsdale. Council members, if anyone wants to speak or see a presentation, we'll have them queued up for the 15th. All right, sounds good. Any comments? Seeing none, we'll send this down with a positive recommendation. and if you could just have them ready to give us a presentation on the 15th. All right, so that's it. Item number five. Item number seven, this is SUP 2026-009, District 7, Super District 9, sponsored by the administration. This is in Councilwoman Easter-Thomas' district. All right, motion's been made by Councilman Warren, seconded by Madam Chair. Swearingen, Washington. All right, motion's been made, properly seconded. Director Ragsdale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So this is a request for a special use permit for an event space in the South Main Historic District. And it is the space that is vacant between Ernst & Hazel's and the small restaurant building there, Devour. And they have activated that space and built out some seating, gates, and fence to use that as an outdoor space. So it comes to you with a favorable recommendation from DPD and the Lanes Control Board, and there was no opposition.

Thank you, Director Ragsdale. Any council members wish to speak on this? District 7, Super District 9.

It says Super District 9.

It's Super District 8.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So that correction needs to be made.

Great point. Super District 8, clerical error. We can yell at everybody. I'm kidding. I'm sorry. All right, so we got that. cleaned up for the record. Councilwoman Issa Thomas is not here. I'm gonna say this, go downstairs with a positive recommendation if she has any issues or if we have to discuss it, we can on the 15th. But any objections to that? All right, so this will go downstairs with a positive recommendation. So that's it for item number seven. All right, item number eight. This is, I actually requested this. This is an update on the former Exxon at the corner of Poplar and Highland. District 5, Super District 9, Councilman Ken Alley just laughed a little bit. But yeah, looking forward to getting this update. Director Ragsdale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I believe that Ms. Reeves is here to speak on behalf of the owner, if you would like. But we have been in contact with them. Of course, they did receive a building permit in December to begin work on the site. A building permit will expire after six months, and some of this was reported earlier this month or last month. and they did request a six-month extension on that. We talked to them and we agreed to a three-month extension, which would now expire on September 11th, and so I believe Ms. Reeves has an update to that of when they plan to get started.

Yeah, and I mean, I think everybody's aware, but just for the record, I mean, so many people call and ask about this. It's been like this for two years. I remember there was a fire the night of a Grizzlies game. I believe there was snow and ice on the ground, and it's in my district. I drive by it all the time, and We've talked about it countless times. It's right next to the University of Memphis. So asking for an update, and hopefully we'll get a timeline that we can all anticipate the seed movement.

Yes, Cindy Reeves, SR Consulting, 5909 Shelby Oaks Drive, Suite 200. They will be starting construction September the 7th. The plans had to be revised in order to accommodate the solar panels, and they have been revised. Those plans have been uploaded to the Acela website, And code enforcement is pushing those through to get revised permits, a revised permit set of plans approved. Thank you. So we will have everything done, and we will be starting construction on September the 7th. They had to change contractors, and there was just a lot of roadblocks. You know, they started the demo work a few months ago, and they got stopped. because a demo permit was never filed back two years ago. So they've got all their paperwork, all the paperwork is in order now.

Yeah, all right, so September 7th.

September 7th, which is the day after Labor Day.

All right, so I'm gonna drive by there on the 7th and expect to see.

I told them you would be.

Yeah, all right, good.

I told them that most of Memphis will be.

Yeah, right, it's a busy intersection.

Yes.

All right, any comments? Other council members? We got Councilman Canale, question?

Director Ragsdale, what's the norm for when somebody asks for an extension?

Yes, we typically do grant extensions. Of course, it depends on the situation.

Do you start with six months?

Yes, that is the typical request. And that's why on this one, because there hadn't been activity in so long, we discussed and we didn't feel comfortable doing the typical six month. And so that's why we agreed to only the three to make sure that we did see some activity there.

So moving forward, can we start with three instead of six?

We can certainly look at that.

So that we know that people are serious about it, because people that just continue to drag us on, at some point you've got to pull the plug.

Right. Yes, we can definitely look at that, and I can talk to my team about that. Okay.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Councilman Canale. All right. Any other comments on that? All right. Seeing none, I appreciate that. Not banging the gavel. Well, I will. Why not? We're moving on. Thank you, Cindy, for coming down. All right, so that's it for item number eight. Item number nine, we've moved to last. So the next item on the agenda, discussion on temporary moratorium on data centers. All council districts requested by Warren and Sweareng in Washington. I'm going to take a moment. You know, I missed the last council meeting. I wanted to present something at the last council meeting. The mayor, so council members, please allow me just a minute. The mayor actually made an accusation over the phone to me two weeks ago when I missed council meeting. He told me he accused me of time traveling because I went back to 2020 and caught a case of COVID. I've since called it a little bit of a blessing. Thank you for laughing, President McGowan, because I was able to watch Councilman Smiley propose what he proposed, and I'm excited to propose something today to this body. I'd written out a bunch of stuff, but I keep going back to this, and I can't believe it. I'd just thought of this today, I'm going to say this. My grandparents used to, or my great grandmother used to tell a story, a touch of religion here, that it was the difference between heaven and hell. And they would say the story went something like, you know, in hell, there's this long table and there's all this food, but everybody's got their hands tied and their mouth, they just can't quite get to the food, right? And in heaven, well, what do you think is in heaven? It's the same thing. It's the long table. It's all the food, and everybody's at the table. And your hands are free, and you could put your face in the food if you wanted to. But in heaven, everyone feeds each other. And so to me, that's really what this is all about today. And all I'm presenting today is a framework. I do want to make sure that I touch on these things. There are a lot of fears and concerns today. I see people out here thinking, you know, moratorium now. Everybody wants a moratorium. Memphis has an opportunity, and we have an opportunity to change the game. We need to make sure that Memphis and, quite frankly, the entire country participate in this new deal. This is our modern-day space race. It is our modern-day nuclear race, whatever you want to call it, but there's real opportunity here for Memphis. This is our moment. We have power. We have water. We have land. We have low density. What we haven't done in any way to this point is exercise our leverage to benefit the entire community. The entire community needs to benefit. This also includes the people who are negatively impacted because we know that's the case. I don't think the answer is to simply say yes or no. I think it's our job, again, to change the way the game's being played to one where our citizens the county, the state, and I'm going to say it again, all Americans can reap the benefit of this new technology. Some might say, and it's actually in, I think, the 22-page document that accompanies the ordinance, and Alan just gave me approval to actually talk about this today, but there's 21 or 22 other pages. Everybody should have a copy of it. But but we've gotta listen to each other, and we've got a framework, and it's really the airports, the way we operate airports is one of the things, but I'm not acting like I have all the answers with any of this, okay? I do know this, that in order for us to do this, we have to do something that right now seems to be impossible, and that means we all have to work together, and it can start right here. So I'm gonna, this is a meeting in public, and we're having a discussion today, and it's a very important deal. You know I appreciate you coming down here, but please don't do that. So thank you very much. I'll have you removed. We're trying to handle this as a body today and listen to each other. Thank you. So we gotta work together, and it's only gonna work if we listen to the people, that would include you, We listen to the city, the county, the state. We get with MLGW, TVA, and again, the people in our community who elected us to represent them, listen to each other and work together and come up with solutions. So that's what I'm presenting today is a framework for that. This is written in pencil, and everybody gets an eraser, but it's a framework. And that's it. This is a start and we've got an opportunity. So look, real quick, I am gonna summarize this as best I can. There's five pieces to it. Number one, performance, siting, and environmental standards. We need to put the facilities where they belong, protect neighborhoods, other sensitive areas, establish clear standards for noise, emissions, efficiency, and other impacts, and require accurate and real public reporting. So we know those standards are being met. Number two, rate payer and infrastructure cost protection. The principle is simple, growth should pay for growth. If a project requires major new electrical infrastructure, the operator should bear those costs. Memphis families and small businesses should not subsidize these projects through their bills. Number three, aquifer and water security. We have an obligation to protect the Memphis sand aquifer. I laugh because yes, of course we do. We should prioritize closed loop systems and non-potable water. require projects to contribute to additional water capacity when necessary, and require transparency about how much water is being used and where it comes from. Number four, protect citizens, community capital, and shared prosperity. Projects of this scale should produce a meaningful return for Memphis beyond ordinary obligations that we're used to in the past. That means a substantial recurring and enforceable community benefit tied to the scale and impact of the project with the proceeds going toward real public priorities. It also means commitments to local hiring, apprenticeships, and workforce development. Number five, local economic participation and permanent job attraction. We should use qualified local and regional businesses wherever practical, but we should also leverage the customers, suppliers, and partners surrounding these companies to attract more permanent jobs and investment to Memphis. Again, this is a first step. It's not the final word at all. but it is a framework for us, and we need to work through them. I hope we do work through them, and I expect us to work through them, but I think it gives us enough to establish the principles, set clear expectations, and again, just move forward thoughtfully. I guess my last comments on this, we've got an opportunity to be the leader on this. We already have the largest supercomputer in the world right here, and I think we all want the same thing, I know we do, and we're gonna build a model. We're gonna build a model. We're gonna build a model for how we can do it right. And I can't wait for you to watch us do it. Yeah, so that's it. I wanna say this too. If a company can meet the standards that we set as a body, we should move quickly, and we should provide clear rules A coordinated process and a predictable path, that's the bargain. We don't have to close the door on this, but we don't have to accept it on someone else's terms either. So let's set the terms, let's capture the benefits and move forward with it. If we get it right, again, it's not just gonna be a framework for Memphis, but for all around the country. I think it's pragmatic. I want y'all to please read it. I would appreciate the opportunity for us to move it downstairs tonight. first reading and get it on the same path with what's already out there on the moratorium, I think it gives us a pragmatic path forward. But with that, any comments? So I'm making a motion.

Mr. Chair, I would second that, but I'd like to be able to move the ordinance that I've been sending around down also, but I don't have copies of that made for people yet. And I'd like to talk about that next since we brought this up for discussion.

And Councilman Warren, thank you. And so to that point, let me say this. I appreciate you all, yeah, and I appreciate you all giving me the opportunity. Again, I wasn't here last week. So Dr. Warren, and in the spirit of what I'm presenting today, again, it's not like, this is just a starting point and it's a framework. So Dr. Warren, Councilman Warren wants to bring something to the table, and that's exactly what this is all about, is all of us bringing things to the table. So yes, inside the paperwork that you have, item number two is the ordinance, and you should have received it via email. It's actually page, what? Page 10, and I thought that we sent it to everyone. I know Alan just kind of gave it the seal of approval here right before the committee meeting started. So it's on page 10. We can send it to you again or make a copy before we get downstairs. Yeah. But there's the ordinance. And again, I'd like to move it downstairs today and just have it read for the first time. same nine minutes to get it moving along and catch up to the moratorium ordinance so that we can have something to consider along with that in six weeks. And so Councilman Warren, if you'd like to go ahead and speak on the item that you were going to.

So we'll move yours down by acclimation, is that correct?

Yeah, so yeah, without objection, we'll move it down. If we want to have a vote on it, we can. All right, so no objections. So we'll send it. All right, we got Councilman Smiley. With an objection. Any comments? All right, objected by Councilwoman Swearingen-Washington. So we'll go to a vote.

We sure don't.

It just goes down for regular readings. It just goes down for regular readings.

People asking for a moratorium. And now everybody jumping with all these different plans when over a year ago when we were trying to do something about it, we should have.

But you didn't.

And so this is all I'm saying. I started working with something over a year ago and you all told me that I couldn't do it. And now everybody want to be the hero of everything and try to bring this here forward. And the people already got a footprint in our city now. Erica Sugarman and I and the team were working across the street. This body and the attorneys here told me that I could not do anything and we probably wouldn't be here right now. But now I see how the game is played. It wasn't about the work actually being done and really helping the people because I've always been for the people. It was about being grandstanding again and here we are. Those things are already built. Pollution has been in this city for decades before I even got here.

So councilwoman.

Before data centers and all of that.

Councilwoman, real quick, Councilwoman White, but no, please, I'm going to say go ahead and if you want to make some more comments, please go ahead. Councilwoman White, you're in the queue. All right, Councilwoman White, you had a question and then Councilwoman Warren, your answer.

Well, I was just trying to get clarity because the last time, same thing, we got presented with the ordinance. I didn't have time to read it. And we just moved it down for first reading so that we could end up discussing it later. And so I'm just wondering why we wouldn't do the same thing Like, literally, that's what we did. Because I didn't agree with necessarily moving it down. But we had all the people here who were for the moratorium. And under advice of counsel, it was just simply that, you know, we'll have time to go through it and navigate it since we have three readings. And it just typically just goes down on the first reading.

That's right. And so I think, Councilwoman and Attorney Wade, you can opine on this as well. But this is the process, right? Go ahead, Attorney Wade. I see, I hear you, Councilwoman.

Put me in the queue.

Yeah, so I mean, I think similar to what happened here last week, right, you have, quite frankly, a thoughtful and well-put-together ordinance, and this is literally providing a framework, and if at the end of six weeks, They're running together at the same time. The intent of the framework is if this body decides to do a moratorium, we'll vote on a moratorium. This is a framework for us to have a plan, and it provides more to it. There's moratorium language in this, but this is the opportunity for us as a body to lead the way and add in, you can call it a list of demands, whatever else it is, but what is it gonna take for us to change the game, change the rules, think about this differently, and put things in that matter to our citizens and help us be successful moving forward. But go ahead, Attorney Wade.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I didn't know if Dr. Warren or Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton, is there anything you wanna say?

No, let Attorney Wade go head on. Yeah, let Attorney Wade go head on.

All right. Last, on the 18th, we were presented with a moratorium ordinance. We were presented that day without any advance circulation of a draft. Same way you're doing what you're doing today. The moratorium ordinance And I said, you know, we'll go ahead and let it go down because that's what we do. We allow members to present items. If you object to it, it goes down anyway next time. You can't prevent things from going to the body. So I said, well, why don't we just let it go down and we'll have opportunity. And I always do that. We always have an opportunity to look at it, revise it, drop it, do whatever we want to do. I think you need to understand the juxtaposition of what Spinoza is providing and what Councilman Warren is providing. The moratorium contemplates that during a year period, you will come up with something like this. And if this is adopted, the moratorium ends. So this is not inconsistent with the moratorium. The moratorium is only allowing time for this to develop. What this does is move the ball down the road faster than a year, okay? So that's what he's trying to do. That's what Councilman Warren's trying to do. Because they believe that to have some regulatory ordinance is the ultimate goal, and why don't we just get to the business of getting that done? That's the philosophy here. Nobody is saying you can't have a moratorium, but once you have something in place that regulates the playing field, the moratorium is not needed anymore. You can't continue a moratorium indefinitely. You can only continue it for the purpose of allowing you to adopt an ordinance. So this is just presenting a proposal on the table. Smiley can present his own proposal if he wants to do so. But that's where we are. Everybody up here can present their own proposal for regulatory environment. That's what this is contemplating. So I'm not so sure this hurts anybody to have this go down. This is... You know, well thought out. I hadn't seen it before last night. I only saw Jeff's last night, so I hadn't had a chance to review any of them. So, I mean, I don't know that it matters that they don't follow the same path, because once you adopt a regulatory environment, it's over. You don't necessarily approve a moratorium on third reading either. We delay those a lot. We had this come up with the oil pipeline. We had to sort through all these regulations and all these state laws, and Representative Vaughn out of Collierville presented a bill that may even negate the moratorium, may even make it illegal. So I haven't had a chance to sort through all of this, and I will, trust me. And I will give you my recommendation, but until that time, I don't have to see why we should prevent anybody from presenting proposals if that's what they want to do. That's my humble opinion.

Yeah, and again, this is a framework that is, I want the body to look at it and chop it up and change it and put in there what we need to put in there to where we all agree on what we're going to do to move forward together on this. Councilwoman White, any more comments or anything? Gotcha. Thank you. And then we got Councilman Warren, Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton. Anybody else? Let us know.

Councilman Warren. Thank you. I'd sent Alan a copy of her ordinance resolution last night. I just want to read one of the whereases in it so people can understand. Whereas the city council enacted ordinance number 5982, establishing a temporary moratorium on certain data center permits in order to provide time for the city to study and establish appropriate permanent development standards. So part of my order assumes that we do have a moratorium. But the key thing is I wanted to have us think about the big picture of things we're trying to do. And one of the things this calls for is a banning of data centers that use evaporative large amounts of water in favor of closed loop water circulation systems and prohibits large amounts of local water withdrawal for data center cooling. So we conserve water with that. And I also wanted to have a progressive use of renewable non-carbon energy on an established time schedule to where at year 10, we have 100% of their power coming from non-renewable sources or from renewable sources and not from carbon-based sources. and also it's criteria for how they expand things providing for public disclosure disclosure and penalties and enforcement of how we take care of that now i sent this to a number of people uh you know and i'm going to make sure everyone can't the council gets this but my thinking is what everyone really wants is we don't want these things coming in where we can't say how they're coming in, how they're using our resources. We don't wanna be a data center desert because everyone uses AI every day, okay? We all use it. Well, I'm telling you, you think you don't, but you look up the weather, you look up what's coming on that's coming from AI. And what happens is when these AIs come into our city, they pay taxes. So we're gonna use the same AI data as we go forward. Our kids are gonna use it for study, but we're gonna be paying extra if they're not paying taxes here. So it's called a data center desert. So you may not have heard the concept, you need to think about it, okay? That being said, I think it's unwise for us not to have some sort of situation where we're benefiting from this as we move forward and we're not just sticking our head in the mud. So we'll talk about this as a council looking 20, 30 years down the road. of what's going to be good for us as we move forward. I think this needs to go as we're talking about our moratorium. We need to put these two things together and look at what we really want as far as our city in terms of pollution and resource use and revenue base that we can get because we've got a lot of revenue needs in our city that It would be nice to have someone coming and filling a hole with tax money. So thank you, Mr. Chair. That's what this is about, and I'll make sure everyone sees it. And I would like, if possible, to do the same thing, move it down for its first reading next time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Warren. Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton.

Do we need to vote on that? No.

I've listened to all of your great framework that you all have presented to us. And is this something you want anybody to say to me? Oh, I just thought I heard something. And not one time has anybody said anything where these data centers are being placed in the black community. That's the first and foremost thing. I know you want regulations and I understand all of that. Last month, I brought Mr. Braxdale here to talk about zoning. Over a year ago, I was told that I couldn't do anything on this side about regulations, bringing things up, and now all of a sudden, all of a sudden, we got all kind of ordinance that are coming in, all kind of great work and great plans, but you haven't looked where these data centers are going. And they're going in the black community where there's poverty stricken. Now one time, has anyone on this council said anything about that? That's the first regulation we need to be looking at, zoning and where they need to be placed and where they need to go, first of all. because the data centers that are now existing exist in the communities where I live. I live right from Tulane and Holmes in the 38109 error code. And not one of you all has ever asked, other than Councilman Ford and Walker, what is it we could do different for the 38109 community? How can we help improve what is already that you all let a footprint in here long before we even knew anything about it? And that's another thing that we need to discuss as far as our authority on who needs to be discussed, when, where, and how you decide to bring a company in this city.

Here we go. That's what the framework's about. Let's go. You know, and it starts.

So the second thing is. is I have my framework that's been over there with Sugar Men, and we've been trying to get it passed, and I'm going to say it again. This body told me that I couldn't do it. So I want to know what's the difference in now than then. I need that explained to me on the legal side, Council Attorney Wade, because let me get this out, because I've been kind of dealing with this. When I ask you all not to just hold up a minute and let's just wait before we just jump into bed with somebody. It ain't about no likes. It ain't about you voting me in or out, because that doesn't matter to me. What it matters to me is I've been living here for 30 years, and I ain't seen nothing but us suffer. And then you got other nationalities suffering, too. That's another different story. So from what this here has been giving to me, we all out of order with the laws. and what's been given to me about Memphis zoning and let me put my other eyes on. Memphis zoning and regulatory authority, impose a temporary moratorium, local government regulations, qualification limitations and procedural requirements, vested rights.

So what are you reading right now?

This is something that we all should have gotten.

What is it?

This was from one of our attorneys here that gave this to me.

Okay.

That I sent some work on, some framework that I was trying to get understood on August the 8th. Okay. And then after August the 8th, I didn't get any response. And all of a sudden, here comes an ordinance with a moratorium. So I'm just trying to figure out. You don't have this. We'll read it and see what it says. Cause all of us out of order, but I'm going to give you the floor council.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Councilwoman attorney Wade.

I mean, I think we're getting off base a little bit. Essentially, This is a real issue, and it's a real issue that every state in the union is dealing with right now. It is anticipated that there will be 5,000 more data centers in the next 10 years. So this is a real issue. Now, to address your concern, nobody's undermining what your concern is. This whole process is to deal with, is to deal with siting. We will have the opportunity to address that. That is what this process is going to do. So hold your powder dry. You're going to have an opportunity. You're going to have your opportunity. But let me say this. Let me say something else. Let me finish. I've stayed in this, lived in this city twice as long as you. Hey, that's right. And I'm just as black as you too. Let me tell you something. So when you start looking at, why are you picking on data centers? You got, there's a call. You have all kind of industries that will put in industrial areas, industrial zoning, where do you think that exists? Next to black neighborhoods. Me too. Okay, so this is what we'll be talking about. What sites can these things go to? This is a legitimate issue on the table for us to debate and discuss and decide. So nobody's precluding that. This is the process for how that is done. Okay? You understand? Okay, thank you. That's all I wanted to make a point about.

Thank you, Attorney Wade. Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilwoman Walker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I've been here for a little over two and a half years, and yeah, sometimes we get paperwork and documents at the last minute, and it's circumstantial, that's part of the lay of the land, but out of the spirit and desire to wanna do what's best for the community, the constituents, the city, I wish we could have gotten this timely or received it and then maybe start with the one that was presented two weeks ago today to give us time to read it. And then this one received time to look over this. And then the one that Councilman Warren has and I'ma keep making the point, every time we discuss this, the words renewable energy need to be used. Clean energy needs to be used. That is gonna be our saving grace. Google it, put it in chat GPT, but we need to make, we need to make, however you wanna look it up, ask your neighbor, but being out of touch is not understanding the need, the significance and the role of clean energy, renewable energy in this process. I'm of the mind that we have benevolence before benefits. When they come, why not share benefits before you start making money. I think it should be benevolence before benefits. But to be threatened with we'll go elsewhere, there is a process for these data centers to get online. So they just can't pop up. There is a process. The reason why they snuck in is because we don't have regulations governing data centers. And this is what this is about. And there is a process for them to do that. And there's just so much misinformation and incorrect information that we get lost in the South somehow and find ourselves advocating for the wrong things in this process. I live closest to a data center out of the people sitting up here, followed by Cooper, Sutton, and then Ford. In that corner is not the exact southwest corner of Memphis and Shelby County, but it's over that way. And all that traffic, Tulane, Holmes, I live off of Holmes, Elvis Presley, back up the state line. It's a lot of traffic. They're parking everywhere. They're setting up temporary parking lots everywhere. Everyone needs to ride over there and see what's going on. They have temporary parking lots everywhere. renewable energy along with how the community has been impacted. People have to leave earlier for work. They have to change their routines and picking children up from school. And then John P. Freeman is right next door to the Tulane site. And that's also the football field. Their home field is the home field for Farrelly. This operation is 24 hours. So you already have traffic because it's just two lanes. and there's no red light. And so you have the additional traffic from the people working on the two lane facility in addition to the traffic from the school and then at night on a Friday night when you don't have as much traffic, you still have additional traffic. And I'm just trying to paint a picture of what life is like for people who live in that immediate area. And so if we're gonna work on a framework Everything needs to be considered. Everything needs to be considered. The majority of the people in this city and county, they don't know about this life. They don't know what it's like to pull up to an intersection and it's two or three cars in front of you, but now it's 15 that you have to wait and wait and wait because there's no traffic light. But this community is impacted in so many ways by the presence and somehow that gets lost in the sauce But as we sort through this document, the document that was presented a couple of weeks ago, and then the communication piece, I'm going to continue to talk about the communication piece. You all know that we find out about a lot of things in the media. That's not right either. That needs to be addressed in here as well. So everybody has their take on what is and is not important. but I just want to speak to some things that I feel are underserved. Thank you and I yield the floor.

Councilwoman Walker and Cooper Sutton and everyone, that's exactly what this is all about is the framework for these discussions and to address all of them. I'm going to back away from this. I'm not even trying to sell this anymore. We're going to get it out there and get it going through the process. Councilman Ford, you look like you want to say something. I was going to get Doug. There you go. Agreed. Let's go.

Hey, Mike, Mike, Mike. That's right.

He said his mic was not on. I don't want to speak for the councilman. He said we're not in a hurry to get anything done.

That's right. President McGowan.

Sure. Doug McGowan, Memphis Light Gas and Water. So I would like to just offer some information I think will be helpful for your discussions. And what I understand is you're talking about putting good guardrails in place. And I think that MLGW and TVA have good guardrails in place for the electric power. I'll talk about those in summary. We have good guardrails in place for water and gas. And I think we're talking here about zoning and environmental guardrails that need to be put into place. And as Councilman Ford said, I do believe you have some time to do that. I won't comment on whether the moratorium is the right thing to do, but I will tell you, based on the flow of information that's coming to me and the applications that have been received, you do have some time. I'll talk just a bit about the process. Clearly, electricity is the key component that all of these data centers need. So I'll talk just a bit about the process. All of them, if they're interested in locating here, will ask and make a request to MLGW to determine if there is power available. That request comes to us, they are put into a queue. They wait in that queue until such time as their time to be studied. That queue is long. Sometimes it's up to a year long before they can even get to the study because it's very complex. The engineers look at multiple variables of this load that they are requesting. Once it is studied, we determine whether there is an impact to the electric system. If there is an impact, then we go on to a second study that's a facility study that says, here's how much money it will cost that company to improve the electric system so that there is no impact. If the load is large enough, that also has to go to the TVA board for them to approve this load, which takes more time. After that, the company has to decide whether they are willing to pay for the system improvements that are necessary. New to the approval process is what TVA just put in place effective October 1st. Two things. Number one, they have to agree to pay a higher rate for their utilities. And number two, they have to agree to pay up front what is called a capacity charge. The capacity charge is equal to $1.52 million per megawatt. So for a 100 megawatt data center, they have to agree to pay upfront $152 million to offset the cost of generation so that residents don't pay that. This is the process that's going through. So now, given that process, let me tell you where things stand. Today, MLGW serves 16 data centers. Those data centers range in size from just under one megawatt to 150 megawatts, and they serve customers like AT&T, AutoZone, FedEx, the International Revenue Service, Nike, St. Jude, Wright Medical, as well as CTC, XAI, and 5C. That's what we serve today. There are two expansions of data centers that have already been approved that have been in work since 2024. And they're the two that you heard about in the paper. 5C is getting an additional nine megawatts. That was already approved there in the old Fred's headquarters. That will come on towards the end of the year. And the expansion of CTC or Colossus or XAI down at Pigeon Industrial Park. That was the project that came on in 2024 that requested 300 megawatts. They were already receiving 150. The second 150 was just approved. That will come on by the end of the year. There are no further approvals required of that. So that's the state of play. The next two nearest data centers that can come on are a request for a total of 350 megawatts. One is an expansion of one of those companies I just mentioned, 5C, of about 50 megawatts. We have studied that project and we are yet to determine how much it will cost them to build out the infrastructure to serve them. That is going to be a months-long process. The second is for 300 megawatts, again, in an industrial park. That project has been studied, but we do not know how much it's going to cost them to improve the electric infrastructure. That's going to be a months-long project. That project also will be required to go to the TVA board for approval. That project will also have to decide if they're going to pay TVA $450 million up front. And that project will have to go through a number of regulatory design changes to improve the process. So both of those are not going to get any traction until after the first of the year and into the first quarter of 2027. Now, no commitments to serve either of those have been made. We have simply studied them. So those are the two nearest data centers that could come. So what I'm saying is, in the next six months, there is no data center that will just pop up anywhere. It can't happen. Then there are 10 applications, speculative applications, that people submit all the time. These range in size from five megawatts up to 200 megawatts, but none of them have been studied yet because they are in the queue waiting for their turn to be studied. So I just want you to, I wanted to provide this information so that you know there is nothing imminent that's going to show up except for what you already know about, which is CTC getting the second 150 and 5C getting their additional nine. And the next two that won't be decided until sometime after the first of the year when they go through the TVA board approval, if they get that far, if they get through the system impact study where we decide how much money they have to pay, and if they're willing to pay all those fees up front because, frankly, some of them are looking at other cities trying to figure out where to locate. To help the council, I'm absolutely willing to come quarterly and provide you an update on what has been applied for, where they stand in the queue, and what is potential to come. But I thought this might be helpful for you to understand where things stand so you can have a dialogue about what the best methodology is to put those guardrails in place. on the environmental and zoning side. And I'm happy to talk about any of the guardrails that we have on the electric side, because they are robust. And we're doing the same thing, just so everybody knows, if there is a request for gas or water service, the company has to pay for all of the infrastructure up front before they are agreed to serve. We will be proposing a data center water rate when we bring our budget to you this year. as well as a capacity fee for people who want to have access to our water in case they need it. So hopefully that information is helpful to you in the course of your debate. Again, I'm not going to comment on the merits of the methodology that you get to, just letting you know the timeline of where things stand.

Thanks, Doug, Representative McGowan. All right, we've got, did Dr. Councilman Ford, we got you. Dr. Councilman Warren, were you back in the queue or are we going to Canali?

Yeah, I was back in the queue just to say that I've got that ordinance not in our form to be passed out, so it'll go down for first reading next time. And wherever we can see it, I'll get it back in the correct form next time if that's permissible. Yep, thanks, Councilman. And I would like to move that it go down tonight with yours. Thank you. And the other thing I think we need to do is, as we're looking at this moratorium thing, I'd like to have some discussion about what size of data center we're talking about as we're looking at it, because if it's in there, I'd like Councilman Smiley just to comment so we know that we're not taking smaller data centers like for St. Jude's or for other businesses off the queue.

Is that in there, Councilman Smiley? So what exactly are you talking? There's exclusions like exclusions for the ancillary centers associated with public education institutions like the University of Memphis and the health care institutions like Regional One and Baptist in France. There's exclusions listed in there for the ancillary ones.

What about just regular small businesses?

They're listed as well. So the moratorium aims specifically for those entities who have the sole purpose of creating – the sole purpose of AI data centers, not those institutions.

So as we do that, is there – and we can look at it as we move forward. There's got to be a gigabyte or some sort of – basic number that those things use and one of the things i don't know if it's in there we need a way to connect you know we can't let them put four 10 10 unit uh systems in and use it like it's 40 and say they only have well these are all individually four is that in there also

So what I would say this, so every like Councilwoman White says all the time, I do think we have to do our due diligence and read what we already have. And I agree with Councilwoman Cooper's sentiments. We have to talk specifically about where these data centers are located, but also agree with, you know, not agreeing. I do find it. enlightening what President McGowan said. We're spending a lot of time talking about, okay, let's do this, let's do that. But what President McGowan said, nothing is going to transpire within the next six months. So I don't, now I'm gonna say this, because I told myself I wasn't gonna say much today. I don't understand what's the pushback, considering what President McGowan said was the pushback against the moratorium at this point. I don't understand it. So with that, you know, I digress. You got any more questions specifically about the ordinance? No, I appreciate it very much. But kudos to Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton because she's been fighting this fight for a while, so she should get her flowers. Show her some love. Here's my overarching issue. As we talk about putting forth regulations, as we talk about moratorium, there has to be community input in it all. The laws that we put forth, we shouldn't just be doing it because we think it's right. I think I'm a smart guy, but this is not my lane. I think we should have the people who live in those areas a part of this study group. I think we have the experts in this field a part of this study group. I think we should have MLGW's team a part of this study group. I think we should have planning and zoning a part of this study group. But we shouldn't be trying to create this thing in our silos without the input from experts, the people, the community at large. I think that's what's needed. So with that, I digress. Agreed.

So back to my original point, I'd like to move this down, and I need a second so we can have it, and we'll sort of try to combine these, I hope, as we move forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yep. Councilman Canale.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. President McGowan, you touched briefly on the electric usage. Could you briefly mention the water usage and then on the air pollution piece, how many, if any, gas turbines are still being operated in Memphis?

So on the second, I'll say that I do not know the exact number that are being operated. I will say the 150 megawatts that for the second phase of Colossus is in lieu of any temporary generation. So when the first 150 came on from the grid, those temporary generators were moved off. When the second 150 comes on this fall, the rest of those temporary generators will move off. And there are others that are permanently backup, like a backup generator. It could be diesel or aero derivative. So I don't know the total number that are there. On the water consumption, where we are today is for the large data centers, the 5C data center is not consuming a significant amount of water. The Colossus down at... Pigeon Industrial Park was not in the top 20 water consumers in 2025. It's growing now and by the end of the year will likely be number five or number seven. That is the one in which the recycled water facility will take the place of that. The one in Tulane is using a closed-loop system that Dr. Warren talked about. They only have domestic water from MLGW, so they are not a large water user. The largest users of water in the system are TVA, the City of Memphis, PMC Biogenics, Premcor, Valero, Kellogg's, Memphis and Shelby County Schools, Shelby County Government, Riviana Foods, and St. Jude. That will change in CTC down at... uh pigeon industrial park will move into that list again the estimated date of completion for that recycled water facility is in 2028 per the restart date of january 1st of 2027 of construction there so the other smaller data centers are not large consumers of water okay thank you and uh

Not that, I know you don't have the total number of turbines, but could you talk about how the pollution is measured?

Yeah, I'm not a expert in that, Councilman, so I really do not profess to be, and I couldn't hazard a guess as to exactly how the EPA is measuring that kind of thing. They're regulated under a permit, to my understanding, for the Shelby County or Mississippi, and then through the EPA, through the Clean Air Act. But again, that's not my area of expertise.

Thank you, President Powell.

Chairman.

Thank you, President McGowan. Councilwoman Cooper's up.

Before you leave, I just need some clarity, just to make sure I understood what you just said about the water usage. And I think Councilwoman White and I are just trying to get some clarity. Who are using the most water, you said?

The number one user of water is the Tennessee Valley Authority. The second is the City of Memphis. The third is PMC Biogenics. The fourth is Premcor. The fifth is Valero. The next is Kellogg's. The next is Memphis Shelby County Schools. The next is Shelby County Government. The next is Riviana Foods. And the next is St. Jude. CTC was not in the top 25. This is the AI computer on Pigeon Industrial Park. They will move into... probably the number seven or number five spot at the end of this year, as they're still consuming less than a million gallons a day. We put a cap on their amount of water that they could use when we agreed to serve them based on the availability of water, and they have not reached that cap of 1.28 million gallons per day. The last count, they were about 820,000 gallons per day this year. The list I just gave you is aggregated use through the end of 2025. As I said, aggregated use through 2026, they will move into that list of top 10, but that's the only data center that would be at that level. And that's the one that's forecast to be replaced by the Recycled Water Center. So TVA's use and CTC's use will be replaced with that recycled water.

All right. Thank you, President McGowan. Councilwoman White.

Thank you, I was gonna save some of these questions till later, because I know last time y'all told me don't get in the weeds of things, but since we have President McGowan here, I guess I do want to go ahead and get an understanding now of the, so one of the things when I started kind of researching places that are doing moratoriums and kind of understanding the background of it, one of the concerns, two major ones, one was the impact on the grid, and then, of course, the cost being put off to citizens. And so how have we addressed those, if at all, or is there an area still to be addressed that remains unregulated that we need to look into as we start discussing how we need to regulate these types of facilities?

Sure. So I could talk about this from the referral of cost to other classes of customers, and I can say unequivocally that there have been no rates changed for residential, commercial, or industrial class customers because of data centers in Memphis and Shelby County, unequivocally. I will tell you that our role is to ensure before I connect any new customer that I protect the availability, reliability, and affordability of power before I ever agree to do that. What TVA has done and what the Ratepayer Protection Plan has done is put that into law as well as Tennessee Code Annotated has put that into law that says any new load that is connecting must fully pay for all of the improvements to the electric grid that are necessary to serve them. They all must agree to pay for an increased rate for their electric utilities whether they use that capacity or not. They all have to pay for an upfront construction cost for all of the infrastructure. And per TVA's new ruling, if TVA has to build new generation to serve that load, the company has to pay upfront for that new generation. So that's the new capacity commitment charge that any company that is above 100 megawatts that's served by TVA must agree to pay at $1.52 million per megawatt. So Again, if it's 100 megawatt data center, they have to write a check to TVA for $152 million to offset the cost of what TVA would pay to build a new generating plant to power that center. They also have to agree to a higher rate than commercial and industrial customers for data centers. And they have to agree to pay for all of the improvements to the electric grid. All of it has to be paid for by the company. None of that is paid for by the rate payers.

And then the second part, which I think was the first part of my question, is in terms of the impact study and the concerns of the grid, how do we address those, or have those been addressed in the impact study?

Those are addressed, so when a company makes a request for, doesn't matter, electric, gas, or water, our engineers look at what the requested load is. And this can be also a supply, if you want to put a generating plant on, or if you want to put a data center, which is a large load. They will enter that into our system and they will look at where it's located, what the infrastructure is available to serve it, whether it can practically be served with the infrastructure that's there at the time, or whether there needs to be new infrastructure. Our engineers run 47 different models based on outages, based on new loads that might come, and based on different configurations to ensure that the addition of this load or this new supply will not cause a problem in the electric distribution system. If there is a finding of no, there is no impact, then we can move to the next step, which is moving forward with approval for the power. But if there is a finding of impact, we move to a facility study, which, puts into dollar terms the number, excuse me, the exact amount of money that the company must pay to improve the electric infrastructure so that there is no impact to the electric grid and the reliability or availability of power. TVA does the very same thing. They will assess whether they have enough generation capacity to serve the load or not, yes or no. They will determine if there is any impact on the transmission system to get power to them, yes or no. If there is an impact, the company has to pay for all of the amelioration, all of the upgrades to the system that are necessary so there is no impact on other customers. The last thing I'll say is that also all of these customers have to agree to be in a power interruption program. The power interruption program means that when TVA needs to buy more power on the market because energy is scarce, they will ask these companies, they will order these companies to curtail. When there is a demand problem versus a supply problem, these companies are ordered to curtail. I want you to know all of that is happening today. So far this year, there have been 15 curtailment orders for data centers and they have complied with all of them. They have gone from their 150 megawatts down to five megawatts so that there is power available for every other customer on the grid. All of this goes on behind the scenes and customers never see it so that residential and commercial customers are never asked to to have to curtail their power. That is a contingent part of providing power to these companies. Pay up front for new generation, pay for all of the infrastructure, agree to a power interruption program, and pay a higher rate. So all of that ensures that the costs are not deferred on to other customers.

Thank you, President McGowan.

All of this is going on

Yes, sir.

Correct?

Yes, sir.

Right. All right. We're coming up on time. And look, I love every single word we've talked about today. That's the whole point of this. So we're coming up on time. We've got two council members. We've got Councilwoman Walker, Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton, and then Councilman Canale. Thank you for coming today, President McGowan. Councilwoman Walker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So my question, questions, this current document, Councilman Warren's document, the document that was presented two weeks ago, is it anything in there about renewable and clean energy? Okay. So if we pass all of these, then what comes next in terms of setting up the guardrails? Who, when, and what? What comes next after we approve all of this? What is first? Yeah.

So great question. And again, Councilman Warren has his proposal. Councilman Smalley has his that we started last week. And we're going to do, hopefully, Councilman Warren and the one that I did today.

We're going to be reading until the time to go to some of Harry's classes.

It's time for us to get to work. And we work through this. And then we ultimately vote on what our path is. We vote on what our path is.

I know.

We vote on what our path is as a body.

I'm not complaining. I was being sarcastic. Thank you so much.

So we ultimately vote on what our path will be in six weeks. We're eight weeks. We can hold it. We continue to hold it. We'll vote stuff up, down, and we're going to create our path forward as a city. We decide. And we can ask and require President McGowan to come here every week to answer questions. It's a framework, and we're going to build it together.

I just don't want us to sell ourselves short because we're not focusing on clean, renewable energy.

I believe the exact same thing.

Because that doesn't kill people. It doesn't make people sick.

Agreed.

It doesn't give people asthma.

This is us.

So that's what I'm asking about, is the process.

So, Attorney Way, would you answer the process? I feel like I articulated that. Okay, let me say this. Yeah.

Doug's presentation was insightful in several ways. We don't control a lot of this. The main thing that we control is siting. That is a property zoning issue. We don't control air control, water, water consumption, electric consumption, all the things that everybody's hanging their hats on. We don't have the authority to extract community dividends, which in my opinion seems like some sort of extortion. We don't have any of those authorities. So we need to be realistic in our focus that where we may end up is that we may have authority to change where industrial zoning goes or where these things can be cited. That may be the limitation of where we are. And I just want to be honest with you. We have dealt with this before with oil pipelines and There are numerous state regulations. There are numerous federal regulations. And there are numerous restrictions on your ability to control regulatory-wise what MLG&W does. So everybody wants to come to the table and say, we're going to do all these wonderful things. You ain't got the power to do all of them. So you're going to have to face reality at some point.

Thank you. All right. We've got... Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton withdrew herself. And then 3.03 p.m. All right. Councilman Canale. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Please, please, please, everyone. We're about to wrap it up. Please.

Thank you. Councilman Canale. Thank you, Chairman. So, Attorney Wade.

Yes, sir.

Would you recommend that now that we have both of these, that we move both of them forward and that we start amending them and seeing you working to come up with one?

As I did with the one last week, I recommend the same thing. If two people object and it's not overruled by this body, they automatically go on the agenda next meeting under our rules. Right, Mr. Smiley?

All right, so did we have, for your, for Councilman Spinoza's, did we have two objections?

No.

Who? All right, so let's do this. Here's what I don't understand is that nobody objected to sending that one down last time with the same nine minutes. So I think that everybody else should be afforded the same opportunity.

Slow down, slow down, slow down. If two objections, then it won't go down this time but next time unless this body overrules the objections. And if that happens, they go down tonight just like the other one.

All right, so we're going to move item what I brought, and we're gonna move what Councilman Warren brought downstairs tonight, same night minutes.

All right, that's on the floor.

Any objections? Objection from Smiley.

You have to vote on it.

All right, so we're gonna vote on it. All right, and we're gonna vote on them as individual motions. That's what we're doing. If we got an objection, we're gonna vote on them as individual items. So what I brought, to the table, we'll do a vote on it now. All those in favor of this going downstairs with the positive recommendation, same nine minutes, please respond by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any of those opposed? Aye. All right. And then, all right, we'll go voice vote. We'll start on the far left. Councilman Smiley.

Nay.

Green.

Nay.

Ford. Walker.

Yes.

Sarangia Washington.

Nay.

Yay. That's a nay. We're keeping up with this. Spinoza, yes. Canale. That's a yes from White. Yes from Canale. Dr. Warren. That's a yes. Councilwoman Cooper-Sutton. She abstains. So was that a positive, negative? Yeah, okay. So that passes. Now we're going to go to the positive recommendations.

Yeah, so.

All right. So we're going to send it down. Yeah, so it's going to go downstairs for first reading. Councilman Warren, Councilman Warren, your item. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Motion was made. Properly seconded. All those in favor of Councilman Warren's going down, please respond by saying aye.

Aye.

Nays. All right, his is going to go down with a positive recommendation. So they're both going to go down with a positive recommendation in the same nine minutes. Sorry, Councilman Warren's is September 15th. His is going down September 15th. All right, that's it. Meeting adjourned. Thanks.

It's on the agenda. It's on.