Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay. All right. Will the regular meeting for Tuesday, October the 7th, 2025 for the Planning and Zoning Board of the Town of Melvin Beach please come to order? First item on the agenda is a roll call. Chairman David Campbell here. Vice Chairman Kurt Bellston here. Member April Evans here. Member Dan Harper here. Member Gabbor Kashi here. Alternate Todd Albert here. Alternate Jason Judge here. Interim town manager Lisa Frasier here. And town attorney Ryan Knight here.

And deputy clerk Sid Cardwell is also present. Next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the August 25th 21st meeting and the September 9th meeting. Does anybody have any changes to the August 21st minutes? Hear a motion to approve. Motion to approve. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Those minutes were approved. Next is September 9th. Anybody got any changes to those amendments? Motion to approve. Second.

All in favor? Second by saying I. I. Next is site plan approval for 411 Habiscus Trail, which is new home.

I have a question. The additional pages that were left in front of us Are these the ones that at least I got delivered yesterday? Are those duplicates or was there yet another change? So, I believe the only one you didn't have delivered would be this item right here. Um, you did get it. It was sent via email, but we did not receive these until this morning. So, this is the final revision that was approved. It should just be a two-page document tabloid.

Mr. Mr. Chairman, can I ask a question? The uh uh you know, the normal process was for the building official to approve the plans and sign off and then they would come to us to also approve. And uh in this case, who's the building official that signed off on these uh plans before they came to us? You're asking me. Well, I I know Robert's not here anymore. Anybody was it? Did he sign something? He was he was a bunch of stuff.

So um you know technically it's supposed to be um not saying we can't go ahead, Mr. Chairman, but technically it uh you know our ordinances say that it has to be signed off by the quote building official. I thought perhaps that Gory or Corey Gorman was doing that, but uh apparently not. So u I don't know what you want to do with that, Mr. Chairman, but you know, we could still go ahead, but technically it's it should have been signed off by a building official technically.

What is everybody else want to do? Go ahead and go with it. the building official was going to be using these plans to to check the house. So, I'm okay going that he hadn't that we don't have some piece of paper with his signature on it.

Yeah, we're going to be using a third party inspector anyway. So, we're going to be using Universal Engineering. Uh, and when I spoke to Roberto, when these when these plans, the 12 copies had to be submitted, that was prior to his leaving. So, there were no questions and there was no deficiencies in the plans at that time. Um, and I don't believe he left until just recently. So, had there been any deficiencies, we would have, as you can see, we're pretty responsive when you ask for documents, we give them to you right away. So, had there been any, we would have certainly, you know, resolve that. I understand there's some issues with the official leaving. So, that may have been the reason for the non-stamp.

Well, I guess it comes down to does it meet the height? Does it meet the setback? Does it meet the lot coverage? meets the height, meets the setbacks, and it meets the coverage. Meets the coverage. Meets the coverage. Yep. The 30%. And it uh as proper drainage. Yeah. Um agree. Since we actually have the town attorney here, is there any reason that we shouldn't uh be able to send these on to the commission with a recommendation contingent on being signed off by the building official.

No, my understanding was I think Mr. Marino just left yesterday was his last day, right? Friday. So, he would have reviewed these submissions. Okay. But we don't have anything that tells us, right? So, if you wanted to, you could approve it um contingent upon verification that he did sign off on them. Would you like a contingency of Universal Engineering doing a plan review for you and signing off? Is that what you're looking for for code enforcement or something of that nature? Is that what you're looking for?

No, just technically the building official does his own due diligence, says everything, checks, signs off, gives us to us, we look at them, but you know, we rely on his primary check, if you will. code requires that it's that there's an approval by the building official, then that's what we need to have. Why don't you put that in a motion? So moved. It is. It is. I know what you mean.

Okay. Well, unless anyone has any objections, um, you know, I I make a motion that we approve these plans to, uh, approve sending it to the commission with our recommendation to approve contingent on getting proper building official endorsements on. I'll second that. I done. And what is that duration for a commission approval and building official stamp of approval? I have no idea about the uh building official because I have no idea what our real situation is. But generally speaking, this goes straight over to the commission. It's their next meeting.

Next meeting. And when when is that? Their meeting will be of every month. The reason I'm asking it'll be next Wednesday. Okay. The reason I'm asking is is if if these are approved, I'd like to get started building. Of course, you know what I mean? The sooner the better. We're we're coming out of the rainy season. We'd like to be building in the spring and have them in before Thanksgiving next year if possible. I think at this point it's it's out of this board's hands. Okay. Um now it's the the town's but the next town commission meeting it will go before them. Okay. Do you guys see any reason why it wouldn't be approved or given a stamp of approval? No.

Mr. Attorney? Looks good. Am I able to put a sign up? We're not the people to ask that question.

Uh, what kind of sign are you talking about? Just Oh, yes. That's not an issue. It's not a violation of code or anything. Okay. Sir, now we're dealing with new signed ordinances tonight, too. Of course we are. Yeah, I just before I put my sign. So, yeah, any sign ordinance wouldn't go into effect for a couple months at least. It It takes a while to get that caught. [Music] All right,

that's it. Thank you, sir. Uh discussion on the report from Dan's regarding the landscape proposal.

Uh chairman, on uh on that report, we were requested by the uh they here at the last minute. Unbeknownst to me, there was a request from the EAB to defer this until I think you got a I think everybody was supposed to get a copy of this. So, um I didn't know what I'm prepared to report and have a vote. If uh if our commission decides that's how they want to proceed or if they want to defer until November, then um I'm willing to do that. Also, I didn't know what the desires uh were of the of our board.

The EAB asked us to defer to next month. There's stuff on the trees and since this is tied in with with the EAB, I would say we'd wanted to defer to next month with this, too. Yeah, it sounds like that's what EAB wants, that work. That's fine.

I don't have a problem doing that. But I would like to say that uh by and large I'm uh I really appreciate your report and and I tend to be substantially in agreement with it. Uh, I just thought, hey, believe me, I I'm I'm comfortable with uh with reporting and voting uh today and I guess my only qualification is uh chairman if if we did move it to November is um I was a little taken back by the last minute uh bailout here. I I had a sense of a little bit maybe not completely uh little disingenuous perhaps. Uh so if if we were to bump it to November, I want to be uh understood specifically that we're voting on this proposal, this specific proposal that's included with our materials. It's been before the town commission, not once, but twice. It's also been sent to the town planner. So, I just didn't want a new version 2.0 popping up next month. I want to complete the process on this version one. So, um I'm April. I'm okay deferring it or doing it tonight. Whatever any whatever is the consensus of the group here. Uh I'm okay either way. I thought the EAB if they were here, they would not be giving a presentation though. They would simply be giving their threeminut public comment. They're not queued up to give another presentation and next month it would be the same thing. They would give their three minutes of u feedback if you will public comment is all they would be doing. The text of all their material what we' be

deciding on is what you have reviewed. It's uh so I I was just leaning over to you know trying to give them every consideration I guess but having said that I was a little I was a little concerned on the last minute. I was under the impression the entire month which they had been given notice of that they were going to show up and my communications were consistent with that. So I was obvious from the email I got or the letter I got this this was the last minute something come up. Yeah know what I don't know what either but I was a little I was a little

So does everybody in favor of tableabling it to next month? So moved. Do I hear a second? Second. In favor of saying all in favor signify by saying I.

Those opposed? No. Table to next month. Next on the agenda is Robert's rules in order. Robert's rules order. Ethics in the sunshine law. So you have a handout in your packet. Um Robert's rules. I'm not going to go through that. You all have been on the board for a while now. So you know that. I just want to give a few reminders um for each agenda item. If there are people out there and they would like to speak on the agenda items that you have, just make sure you do have public comment. Um, of course, that would be limited to three minutes uh for whatever they have to say. That should also be done at the end of the meeting as well. Uh, if anybody has any public comments, then they can make those. But other than that, just the normal stuff. You know, you're being recorded. Make sure you're talking one at a time. Um, and um, that's it for Robert rules. Robert's rules. So, just take a minute to review those. Um, same thing with the Florida Sunshine and Public Records. LOL. Uh, I believe I also handed this out last year um, to y'all. So, please review that. Just keep in mind any communications that you'll have amongst each other regarding anything that could potentially come before the board would be subject to Sunshine Law. Um, make sure if you are emailing uh information to another member of the board that uh if you do copy the other members, make sure it's a blind copy so you don't hit reply all and inadvertently commit a sunshine law violation. That also applies to text messages as well. And um emails uh further we've had some situations in other cities where text messages have been erased or emails get erased. Um if it's anything pertaining to something that could come before the board, just make sure you do not erase

those and retain those for any public records request. um do have to remind you that you could face a noncriminal infraction with a fine up to $500 for a sunshine violation as well as a uh criminal uh infraction secondderee misdemeanor for knowingly violating the sunshine law and that is something that we want uh to avoid. Um if you have any questions at all regarding sunshine law or Robert's rules, please feel free to reach out. But other than that, just take a look at that as a reminder. Um, and let me know if you have any questions. Thank you, sir.

Um, Mr. Knight, I have a question. Um, I I realize public comment needs to come in with the commission with the um, yeah, commissioners, that all is done at the very beginning of the meeting as opposed to at the very end. Our beginning is not that far distant from the very end, but there's also public comment after a motion is made and there's discussion, but I don't see that in here.

Yes. So, if whatever you have on the agenda when you are taking a vote for that, if it's something that does require a vote, then there should be a question asked if there's any public comment. So, you can either do it at the beginning or the end. That's up to the board. But for each item on the agenda, there should be um public comment allowed for anybody that would like to comment at the beginning or at the end for each agenda item. Right. So say for the site plan. Uh once there's a vote or a motion in a second, then you can ask for public comment. If there is anybody that would like to speak, then they'll have their three minutes. Same thing for the next agenda item. Yeah.

So I lost my front page. Yeah. So I know what's next.

Where did I put that? Robert. So we have a public hearing on sign ordinance. Yeah. All right. Next item on the agenda is discussion on sign ordinance. New sign ordinance. Can uh Mr. Chairman, can somebody provide some context as to why we're entertaining a new sign ordinance? I noticed that it's principally in principally red rewritten in the area of sign removal. I just wondered what what the reason is for it, what the problem is that they're trying to solve. And I don't is there somebody here that's prepared to say that?

I have no words for the idea. When I saw it, I thought I can address that. So, at a regular uh commission meeting, there was discussion about rewriting the signed ordinance. Um the previous signed ordinance uh was done before Reed versus Town of Gilbert, which is a Supreme Court case that did invalidate um some uh signs and sign regulations that municipalities had. Um, so I took a look at the code um and made some revisions uh pursuant to that and pursuant uh the direction from the commission. So that's why that's before you and this particular provision is in the land development regulation. So that's why you have it.

I knew how we had it. I just didn't know why we had it. You need a motion for us for our approval of the proposed rewrite of the sign.

Yes. So it would be a motion and a second to recommend that the or to make the recommendation for approval to the commission. Um essentially what was created is a chart which you see in there. Um, so anybody would be able to look and say, "Okay, if I have a garage sale sign, um, how many signs can I put up?" The answer is one. Um, and the sign can be no larger than four square feet. So, it just makes it so it's a little bit easier to read. Um, and it also gives the uh the duration um for that. And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. So, anybody got any comments in the public on the sign ordinance?

It's a great job. Yeah. I So, you reminded me about two minutes ago essentially the I have a because we don't have usually have a lot of people. There's almost nobody here. I know. I have a tendency to forget about it. No, I know it's easy, very easy to do. I'm sorry. the uh essentially the only real change that I see is we're adding in a provision for the town to be able to remove signs. Is that correct? More or less.

Uh yes. So your the previous um version of this ordinance um it didn't really have um sign and height requirements for every single sign on there. This does do that. So somebody can't put a 12-oot garage sale sign or political sign on their property. Um, so really the main changes um are the height and size requirements as well as uh some have durations now that they can be uh placed on there. Yeah, there's a couple changes that I'm aware of that I that I do agree with. Perfect. I make a motion to approve this to pass on to the

commission. Second. All in favor signify by saying I. I sign approve sign ordinance is approved. All right. Next old business don't have any public comment. Just took care of that. No, not for meeting in general. We public comment. Okay.

Uh Mr. Mr. Chairman, I have just one one further thought before perhaps we adjourned was uh to keep the uh city or the town commission prised of our process and the fact that we were delayed a month. I would uh like to have my report along with that uh report of the uh arborist uh passed on to the members of the town commission. That would be okay. Uh I don't have a problem with that except might confuse them. They might think it's approved. It's not. Well, in that case, in that case, let's uh delay that then. Mr. Chair,

may I may I um suggest something? Um this has not I checked today and this has not gone before the city planner. Has not been reviewed by the city planner. And I am not certain that the the attorney has looked at it either. Am I correct? The landscape code. I did review it uh to answer questions that were posed from the board, but I did not write the ordinance or do the revisions or anything like that. But if the planner has not looked at it, then I think between now and then he should look at it. So I would recommend we go that route first. Yes. The planner has it has not been tasked to review this landscape ordinance proposed change.

Are we allowed to spend that money?

Just Well, just a second. Let me tell you what uh what the minutes of the town commission said. They approved $1,000 for uh Mr. Corey, the town planner, to review the specific proposal that you've got in your packet and he's I presumably has had that in his possession. Um we have to uh move or pass. So, we need to vote up or down on this ordinance proposal as part of our role on planning and zoning. We are an independent recommendation body to the town commission and um I don't see uh the town commission is the ones that requested the plan the town planners input from us. I think our responsibility is to evaluate the the uh proposal and uh and either recommend yes or no. So in that regard I don't think uh we need to have the planners land planners feedback for what our mission or or uh objective and uh and ch what we are supposed to do as a body. It's nowhere written in the uh in the ordinance that you know the somebody sees the relevance of of adding the land planners. We didn't request it. The town commission did. He's reporting to the town commission, not us. Um,

well, the the the only thing is you're you're and again, you know, I'm day four, so excuse me, that I don't know the history down pat, but if you're you're suggesting that the city commission town commissioner, I apologize, uh, approved $1,000 for the planner to review it, what I'm saying is that the planner has not reviewed it at all. So, so if if we are revising an ordinance, we are making revisions to an existing ordinance, then that should be looked at by the city planner and those recommendated changes then be brought forward to you all because you're the ones who recommend ordinance changes to the this the town commission. So, that's all I'm suggesting as we move forward. And as far as just adding a little history, we are not bringing this ordinance forward. This ordinance is brought forward by the environmental advisory board. It's come to us just to either recommend up or down

to the town commission. That's our role. So, if the town planner wants to get back to the environmentals uh on some version two, they're welcome to do. This version has been to the town commission twice off to the planner before us a couple times. The train has left the track or the station on this proposal and we plan to vote for it up or down next next month.

So here's a so here here's what we can do. If there is an up vote, then I would ask the uh planner to look at that just so we can get a final draft ordinance there that he can review and look at assuming it's an up. If it's a down vote, then um at this point there's no need for him to even look at it. Okay. So, we'll vote next uh next month and go from there as far as Yeah. any follow up with the town planner? Yeah. The town planner won't be engaged until such time as as we vote. We vote. Yep. I agree with that.

Anybody got anything else? [Laughter] Okay. Motion to do we have reports from our

I do not have any reports. Uh, one thing that you will be getting before your next meeting, um, is a memo on SB 180, which is Senate Bill 180 that passed, which has to do a lot with land development codes. So, I will probably have a five or six page memo for you all, um, summarizing the bill that passed and the different regulations and prohibitions that are included in that bill because it is, um, a significant bill um, especially with planning and zoning and land development code. Good.

And if I may, I'm Lisa Frasier and I have uh I don't know if you know any of my background, but I have all over 30 years experience in public sector and local government. And I am a certified planner, have been for over 30 years. I date that by my second daughter. Um and so, uh I have sat on many planning and zoning boards and I have ran many planning and zoning boards. I have written many codes. Um, so I am excited to help you all along. And I've got to say, you all get to work and move along. This was the most efficient and effective and and fast meeting of a planning and zoning board. I I swear in my 30 years. So,

we're good. You guys are really good. And I thank you so much for your time. Truly, thank you. We've now got to add at least two more minutes to every meeting because we've got to remember to ask for public comment. Oh, well, motion to adjourn. Meeting a journ. You stepped out. He did. He did ask. But what do you want? So the commission meets tomorrow or this Wednesday.

Next Wednesday. The deadline to have all the documents in was an hour and a half ago. So So will it will it be on the agenda for next Wednesday's meeting? Yes, it's already in the agenda pack. It is being put together. Okay. All right. Just wanted to be sure that it it wasn't going to go another 30 days or No, something like that. It's already in the packet. It was anticipated. Is Is there a need to attend? I I Yeah, I wouldn't I would say it wouldn't hurt. Is it here? Yes, it is. 6 PM on the 15th. I'm sorry. 6 PM on the 15th. 15th. Okay.

Yes. It's usually first. I would say if it does get pulled from the consent agenda and placed down uh to another portion, um just let the commission know during public comment and then that way they're usually able to accommodate you since you're here for that and you won't have to wait until the very end of the meeting to have them address it. Okay. So, and I guess and if you just if you want to you can just approach me and just Yeah, because That is okay with me. about to get in.