City Council - Regular Meeting

In order, the City of St. Cloud regular meeting for Thursday, August 20, 2026. Can we all please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and the invocation? First, the invocation by Pastor Eros Santabria from Soul City Church.

Thank you. And will the clerk please call the roll?

All right. City manager, you have any agenda updates?

What's the date of that meeting? September 26th? Oh, 10th, sorry. 2026. 2026, okay. Mayor, may I make a motion to approve? Yeah, of course you can. We have a motion from Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Does it have to be read first? Thank you, Attorney.

Clerk, please read public hearing number two.

All right. And do we have to? We're just moving. We don't need public comment on that. No, it's just a continuous. Can I get a motion to continue to September? Motion, please, Mayor. Motion approved from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Second from Council Member Irvin. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Thank you. Dan, would you like to speak about the St. Cloud Citizens Foundation, please?

Yeah, and as y'all know, Donna Cooley, she has sat on this since its existence. And y'all know she's retiring tomorrow. So I've spoken with Coop and Tawny Bailey, Bailey is her last name, is replacing Donna in her current position in the finance department. So I felt it was appropriate that she would be the appropriate replacement for the finance, the treasurer position on that. For the other seat, I thought we need somebody that's really entrenched in the community, that really loves giving back and loves being involved, and somebody that I know we're all familiar with is Billy Rocker, and I

You did not win that. Okay. I believe Wawa donated money for that. Nice try. And something that's great about it, there's a foundation that gives, I don't know how, $1,600, $2,000 every year, and it collects interest. So it's really, we've put it to great use there. You know, the hospital, Brian Wetzel over at Orlando Health St. Cloud, they donated $5,000 to it to go towards the Veterans Council. So... That's it. We're just wanting to get it going and keep it moving. So I just felt that Billy would be one that could fill that spot. So I want to go ahead and make a motion to add Billy to that b

Oh, and Tony. Yeah, we need to add both of them. And Tony Bailey. I'll second that. All right, we have a motion and a second from Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll?

All right, next up we have presentation for Employee of the Month of August by Chief Gerke.

All right, first up, we have the consent agenda. Next portion of tonight's meeting is consent agenda contains items that have been determined to be routine and uncontroversial. If anyone in the audience wishes to address the particular item on the consent agenda, now's the opportunity for you to do so. Additionally, if staff or members of the city council wish to speak on a consent item, they have the same opportunity. All right. I'm going to go ahead and just for conversation, I want to go ahead and pull 11 and 12 off and just make some comments. As you all know, What's going on with the stat

Nobody, I believe it would come from staff, right?

And all of that goes into the, what do they call it, the Ohio ditch?

Why is it called the Ohio ditch? Is it on Ohio Avenue? I don't know, maybe Mr. Faulklinger knows.

I got a call from a friend of mine I went to high school with. He said, hey, so I heard you're going to be touring it with the DOT. They said the mayor is going to tour it, so they were supposed to go mow the ditch. that area so I can walk into the ditch. I'm like, I'm from here. I'll walk into a ditch with high grass.

Kevin, can you come to the podium, please? Thank you, John. Yep. You met with DOT. Yes, sir, I did. All right. What were their recommendations out there? I wasn't at the meeting, but I will be having a Zoom meeting with them talking about their recommendations.

Okay. So, but Mr. Dorsey, you said that DOT does intend next year to bag one of them.

I wanted to be there. I'll get on a zoom call with them and I'm going to get it straight for them.

All right. I'll get more information on that. I'll talk to D. O. T. As well. And I'd love for Kevin you to be there and I'd like, let's see if they tell us the same thing they told you the first time.

If you can provide his information. I have his information. He's emailed. Oh, you do? Okay. All right.

Okay. All right. We're going to have a Zoom meeting soon with Misty. Misty? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you, John. Thank you, Kevin. Yes, sir. Next up, Nicholas Steinkamp.

hey nicholas thank you um yeah i really don't know what you're talking about but thank you i appreciate it no sir we only speak from the podium i do appreciate your time up here i don't know what march 28th references but um i don't know i didn't have time to put my calendar but thank you very much Well, that didn't wake everybody up. I need some more coffee. Maybe. I don't know. Shawnee likes you the most. I don't know anything about Ken either. All right. In all seriousness, Everybody up here cares about the citizens of this community. Nobody thinks anybody's a sheep. I, I think everybody tr

All right. Next up we have Ms. Paula Stark. What does NIMBY mean?

Well, we may not have the large stage. Well, it says the day of the event's 2007, so.

Council Member Irwin. Thank you. So I've had multiple conversations with Ms. Stark and several members of her Main Street Board, and I've made my position pretty clear as we went through this budget process and as we are staring at a legislation or a ballot amendment in November that's potentially going to eliminate property taxes for Homestead. residents um i don't i didn't think that the city should be funding outside organizations at all because we we have our own budget to look after with with these dire circumstances however with that said um since we're we're kind of phasing that in into

All right. Well, this is the request here for this right now.

Well, with something like that, we've got to dig right back into the budget again. We've got to open that hole back up. So I think that's going to be...

Yeah. And I've spoken to our city manager. Um, I think that there's. Uh, availability in the budget to do that, if that's what the council wants to do, but I don't know what the process is on.

How do we do that for other nonprofits and allow them that same opportunity? Because I think that we've opened the budget up and now we, and we've closed it to, to move forward, to, to preparing it. So we're going to open it up again, the conversations. Because we just balanced it out for the first time in 31 years, so we got to move to get that money from somewhere else.

all right that would work for me as long as it keeps us in the from not using prior fund balance correct we're still good with that correct okay councilmember paul and i was gonna for the record also met with rep stark and was gonna bring up the same thing as well during my comment time but since we're talking about it i just wanted to put it out there on record of reconsideration so okay but right now you're looking for an answer on this too correct okay we're good with that you got three

Okay. I'm good with these numbers. That's not, those aren't, you're bringing the events downtown. In fact, I think our agreement, our prior agreements, we've required that, I think, right? We've asked for four events. Yes. Which is the purpose of it, so.

Is this coming out of this budget or next year's budget?

I think we're good with that. I don't think I need a sponsor, do you know? All right, do we have to vote on this or would we just give a nod?

What's on the 17th? She's coming back, giving a report on? Last year's stuff, okay. All right. Would anyone else in the audience like to address the council this evening? Yes, sir.

Thank you, Alex. Have you addressed that with the County? That's a County road. So County project, they can't, it's not our money. No, no. And I get that.

All right. So you can stay up here, Alex. We can still talk city manager.

When Stevens North, that development, there's going to be sidewalks on that side of the road. There should be.

So you're saying the ditch north of, what's the road you're on? Just south of the ditch? The ditch that crosses underneath? Correct.

He's a ways from that. We were talking about Stevens North. Yeah. Massachusetts is a book.

Your subdivision is just north of Bramblewood. No. What's that?

There's the one that it connects over to Missouri. And then if they go to the old, the hoop property through that subdivision, you're just south of the high school. And their sidewalks there. Is that the route?

All right. Pretty much to keep the kids from having to walk up to 17th and making the 17th walk. That's the cut through some of this other. All right. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. All right, anyone else in the audience like to address the council? All right, with that, we will jump into our public hearings. Public hearing number one, will the clerk please read public hearing number one.

Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jeff. And we have a few members from the public that would like to speak. We have Jim Shrek.

All right, Jim, we sat and we met, uh, but you said you closed, you closed at 11 o'clock. Yes. But you wanted, so you had special events that you asked if we could make the exceptions for that. And I, I thought that was a good idea. Okay.

And I know we've got a few others that are going to come up here. But gosh, we've been on this for the past year, right? It's been a while. Ever since I took office, we're dealing with issues that are five-plus years old. Not just this. Hell, we're dealing with issues that's 10, 20, 30 years old at this point. We'll address this one. It was crazy to me that it seemed like the rules created a footloose town here, but everybody was just breaking the laws anyway, right? There was dancing, there was pool tables, everybody's just, and that's fine. I think those were ridiculous anyway, so those have

I thought that was, it was almost laughable that was even in our code. I like shooting pool. I like all that other stuff. I don't believe that, I mean, you have a kitchen in your restaurant.

Okay. And I don't think it was meant to target any one individual, but you do realize there was something you left off that list, which is really the black and white issue is here. What differentiates a liquor license from one of these 51% food sales, right? Yes. We all know that. Let's call the elephant out into the room, walk his butt right in here. Let's say what it really is. We're not going to muddy the waters with everything else. Cause we know that's what it is. We're not going to blame our police or anything else. We, you were in that meeting when Tisha read a whole laundry list of vio

And I wasn't even happy with that because I got, what do you want us to do about it? I said, I want you to do your job and nothing against her, but I mean, it's just, just because stuff's been allowed to happen for forever on a multitude of things in our city. we're the ones that are being tasked with cleaning up and it's, it's vilifying us when we're just trying to say, okay, here's the code. What makes sense? What doesn't make sense? Calling heads and tails on this stuff. So I appreciate you giving those comments, but I'm, so what makes sense about the 11 59?

Okay. All right. But you agree with everything else in it?

Where's our finance guy? Yeah. Write the check directly to Cooper over there.

Okay, I didn't know there were discrepancies. We just wanted more information on that. Oh, okay, all right.

Cloud Main Street would love to take a check from you Jim I'll give it to them they do so much for this place so okay thank you Jim all right all right next up we do have Trevor Estill Richard Estill same person right

All right, I'm gonna ask a question, Trevor. Okay. We can replay last year's meeting, and you said the total opposite. I love you to death, brother. I don't believe so. But you said the total opposite. In fact, you said it wasn't enough. You didn't think that we should even allow them to stay open and take out the restaurant portion or the kitchen portion. So that's really what's on the table here. And I know Mr. Parsons is here, and he'll come up and speak about his own restaurant there and nothing against it. But we had a laundry list of items from our staff.

when I became mayor, you were the first one to call me and say, I need to sit down. And it was all about this. I mean, you are the, the, the genesis of this. I understand that. I mean, you're, you're also catching five prior years of frustration. You had your three minutes. I'm going to talk. Okay. Yeah. But you said you had, you were done. Okay. Let me just finish up. I'll give you 11 seconds here in a second, but you have to hear me out. Okay. You have said you have not been listened to for how many years now? And I'll let you, we don't have to hit the clock start on that. You can answer tha

And I spoke to you on the phone and you didn't object to this. I did talk to you about this on the phone probably about a month ago. And so that's where I don't understand is why did you wholeheartedly want us to intervene on this, which is you were the driving force of this. And now that we've found a solution, I thought it's amicable. And now you're saying, stop, we don't want any of it. So you.

I am Trevor. I I'm it's not what I'm saying. So what do you, what do you want this council to do? If not this, what does Trevor Estill want? I'm just for cure. I'm curious.

I don't know where that even comes from.

Trevor, I'm baffled by these comments because why would that even come out of my mouth? You have a liquor license. We can't dictate that.

I'm going to take the floor again. I'm going to take the floor again because let's set this straight exactly what this is. We've got somebody with a liquor license. I believe we've got two downtown, right? Thank you. Out of the four in town. All right, we got two. You have been crying. We have to differentiate between liquor license and the 51%. Sure. Right? They don't have a kitchen. They don't have a kitchen. Our code says you have to have a kitchen. You got to have pool tables. You want us to pay attention to all that. I really don't care about the pool tables and all that stuff. I like the

Okay, so that is the whole point of this. What differentiates between what you have and what a 51%? What is that, the 4COP, what do they call that?

Okay, the last time I heard you and another stakeholder, you guys were cursing each other down New York Avenue.

It was back and forth. Don't put me in that basket. I'm just saying that that's the last interaction I've seen. And I think you guys are great business owners. You do your things. We've always wanted you all to get along and work this out. And now you guys are telling me you want to come together and work it out somehow. And I... You never called me and said you were in opposition to this. In fact, it was the opposite. Somehow we have to differentiate, and I'm gonna turn to the council on this one right now, because we are voting on this tonight. Council Member Urban.

So I think, I've had many conversations with Mr. Still as well, and from what I understand, what you've explained to me is that the code has not been enforced It's been business by business. So I think that's where your main issue is. I do, too, have an issue with the midnight closing. I am not in favor at all of approving this with the midnight closing and telling a private business what to do. I don't think that's the government's job. I do think this cleans up a lot of the issues, like the mayor said, with the pool tables and the karaoke and everything. I don't want to be a footloose town w

All right. Well, do you think you guys in the next month can do that?

Amazing. I make a motion to move this to the next September 10th council meeting. We have a motion. Second by Council Member Paul. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Thank you all. Jim, sorry, Ray, would you like to still come up here? You can come on up here. I know you do. We're moving it to the next meeting anyway. So, uh, I apologize.

All right. Right. Can I name an address for the record, sir?

Now, and to be fair, look, so you stay open until 2 and you don't have a kitchen, so you use... No, we do have a kitchen. You have a kitchen.

Is that your staff in the kitchen cooking? Cause if Jim close at 11, it doesn't have to be ours. No, I'm just, I'm asking, trying to understand. Okay.

So basically Jim was fighting to stay open because his employees are still working during that time, right? So is that right? Your employees are working during those hours until 2 a.m.?

All right. Ray, I'll be honest with you. None of this was on my radar until, and I love Trevor, I love Jim. None of this was on my radar until Trevor brought it to me. That's I believe where all this stem from. I'm not blaming Trevor. I think there's been them. People have changed opinions on things and I'm glad everybody's getting along. Um, but what I've been told was that you didn't have a kitchen. You don't, you're not operating in accordance with the code.

It's my dream. Well, thank you. Right. And you know, we're going to move this to the next meeting. So we're going to get a lot more information over this next month. Tisha, can you please come up to the podium? Ray, this is about your, I mean, we're still talking about this topic. Tisha, you presented a whole list of items where these number of facilities or these establishments were not in accordance with the code.

What were the violations? Do you recall?

There's never been any conversation about a kitchen from staff?

Ray, I'll let you come up and speak on this since we're still talking about it. That's fine. Thank you, Tisha. And so everybody understands that we're being told that the code is this and our staff and our attorney is saying there's violations. I have a business owner downtown coming to me and saying there's violation after violation. They're being ignored for seven years. Our job is to call balls and strikes and make sure every citizen is treated the same. So if the code is the code, that's what it is.

I think over this next month, we'll clarify a lot of this. There's a lot of confusion with this now. And I do... There's nothing that I, I obviously want the business owners to get along. I know you're in Kissimmee and you've got staff here that, but between Jim or Trevor or everybody else, I want them all to get along and be on the same page and coexist and work together, as you said, through the CRA and that. But there's also staff and our attorney saying, here's what the code is. And I think that was the trade off. So we're not just pulling this out of thin air, right? Like I said, none of

Why wouldn't you do that? You don't even need to get Jim's food. You can just order in your own food from Uber it in. That's my point. You don't even have to have a kitchen with this, but we have a kitchen.

Hold on, hold on. According to the City of St. Cloud Code and the City Attorney and the staff, they're telling us we're citizens up here, right? You know, I'm not going to say unfortunately. Fortunately, we get information from them and we have to make our determination based on that. So when business owners are saying this is not in accordance with the code, staff is saying it's not in accordance with the code, our own city attorney is saying it, our city manager, everybody is saying this is not in accordance. Who am I? I'm one of five people sitting up here to say am I going to be the only o

No, no, no, no, no. The code is about the kitchen on site. That's the code, the violation. The other things, those are the easy ones. That's the low-hanging fruit. We all know that. The elephant in the room is the kitchen in your establishment. That's what the other individual who owns another business came to me over and over again and said, here's the problem. They don't have to have a kitchen.

I think at the time, I think that was done back in the, I don't know how long, how old the, that code is. Dan, do we know how long that code's been in effect?

I'm not sure I could research it, but we've been blessed with having to clean up the messes of a very long time. And so we're trying to do our very best. I know staff is as well. So when they present a solution. Hell, I thought this was the best solution where everybody gets to still dance and karaoke and sit at high tops and play pool. And you still get to stay open and you don't have to build a kitchen. That's why 1159, and then I thought it makes Trevor happy. I mean, of all the code that staff has ever presented to me, I thought this one was an A plus of all of them, 100%. You may not feel

Over the next 30 days, we're going to look at more information, and hopefully we can really flush out all the details on this some more. Is that good?

Yes, sir, Ray. Thank you. Council, any comments? Anybody want to say anything else on this? Are we good? Okay. Well, this is a fun night.

Mayor, I think Jim has a... Yeah, Jim, come on up.

Thank you. Thank you, Jim. I'm just telling you. 100% it would work.

You got time, right? You don't have a job, right, Ken?

All right, anyone? Okay, we're moving on from that.

Next up, we have council action number two. City Clerk, will you please read Council Action number... Nope. Number one. Sorry, I got moved over to another page. Give me a moment here. What is in the Kool-Aid today here in the city?

Is that what... Okay, that was number... Are we all ready on that?

That's okay. Yes, will you please read council action number one?

All right, thank you, Jamie. Anyone from the audience like to speak on this item? All right, and council. Oh, sorry, Raelynn. I'm going to be nice. As long as you're going to smile. Okay. Well, after we approve it or deny it, then you can't talk about it. You sure you don't want to talk about it? At this point, she needs to talk about it. That's right. I've been forced up to the podium before. Great to see you in council.

Yes, ma'am. Council Member Fletcher first.

Thank you, Mayor. I just want to say that this project has been in the works for a very long time, and it's obviously something that I'm very passionate about. I know everybody up here on the council is, and previous councils and staff has put a lot of work into this. I had the opportunity to meet with the finance director and the folks at the deputy mayor's request. I know that there is a lot of concerns about the budget, about operational expenses, especially with the property tax reform. With that, in our park impact fees, we have about $10 million in park impact fees. Speaking with the fin

I think Council Member Fletcher took everything that I had to say, but I did want to say I did take Deputy Mayor Gilbert's advice to sit down with our finance director and the bonds people regarding this discussion, and I think right now i am in agreement to move forward i think the master plan was budgeted in 2022 so here we are in 2026 and i think it's just time to move forward and get this dream into a reality for the community here in saint cloud so that's all i have to say all right councilmember urban uh

Same thing. I took the deputy mayor's advice, and I met with the bond people and our finance director, and it brought a lot of clarity to this project and how government bonds are used a lot of times. Government finances, even five years in, it's still hard to get your head around. But I agree. I would be honored to help move this project forward.

Well, thank you, Council, for having those meetings, and that's what we're supposed to do because we can't communicate. So if there's no objections, I'd ask the mayor to motion to approve this at this time.

All right. So you're going to make the motion to approve, Deputy Mayor. Before that, anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item? All right. With that, we have a motion on the table from Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Thank you. Will the clerk please read Council Action Number 2?

Jabari, what was EDAC's comments? Like, why would they want us to go for submitting a request?

All right. Was that all the members on that committee? Was it a full slate?

Thank you. All right, with the applicant. It's not, you're not really the applicant. Uh, crabby bills. Would you like to speak on this item?

Sure. Hey, good to see you. Thanks for coming to council.

Okay. I do have some concerns. It's not really Krabby's. It's... Unfortunately, we have to act like it's our building, right? Right. We're doing what's in the best interest and the best business deal possible. And I just, I have a hard time understanding the $75,000 credit, but that's just, you know, maybe we can talk that out here tonight. Okay. Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Well, thank you, Mayor. Our consultants, Gorman, has been great. I'm not in the restaurant business, so thank you for your evaluation, sir. Ken, if I may. $75,000, I do have... I do have commercial buildings that are rented. And when we signed a longer lease, we used those $75,000 or whatever for structural things, for windows, doors, patios, flooring, ceilings, things that are structural for that commercial building. I know these $75,000 were for tables and chairs, booths, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. what my understanding is that you can shake your head all you want, but let me finish. O

So, um, here's where I've met on this. Um, I, I think, you know, we, we, we talk about making decisions on this council that are going to basically outlast us that are sitting here. This is a 10 year lease. I would agree with the edX recommendation to put this out for an RFP and maybe Krabby's comes out on top, but what does it hurt to put it out? It competition breeds success. We can keep Krabby's there while the RFP process goes through. Um, I just think we, we need to put it out and, and, and that just, just see what else is out there to, that this is not, I mean, this is the, the residence

Yes, sir. I swear I just had deja vu. Weren't you at the same workshop with the other, the downtown stuff?

Thank you, sir. Thank you for clarifying that. Council Member Fletcher.

I just wanted to say thank you for being a community partner. You have been here a long time. You've served a lot of residents and visitors throughout your time here. here in our city. That is a wonderful building and a wonderful space. I know that you guys work very hard. Unfortunately, I am in agreement with EDAC that I believe we should put it out to bid so that other businesses, local businesses, have the opportunity to possibly have that space and keep up with their design. Perhaps you would come out on top, kind of what Council Member Urban had said. I had said that from the beginning of

So you're referencing more exterior improvements now than like windows that's with the 75,000 credit.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, council member Paul.

Um, Are you able to provide like the list of, um, the upgrades that you guys would plan on doing?

Thank you. Carly, I'd like to ask Ken to come on up here. No way he didn't waste his time driving here without Tim. We pay them pretty good money to give us advice on this stuff. Is it good money? I don't know. It's not bad.

I assume they have an onsite kitchen, right?

I think one of the things, like if we got to replace windows, I'd rather them put money towards stuff like that, you know, because then they're going to come back to us. I think, Dan, real quick, I think when they first built it, I think there was some issues with the windows. I remember the water was coming right through that wall. That's right.

Thank you, and I appreciate the relationship that you have with the city. I have two questions. One, unless, I mean, I don't remember if it was provided. I don't have it in front of me right now. So how did we come up with the 10,000 plus the 5%? Were we looking at comparable properties in the area?

So what would be the comparable properties that we looked at to come up with the 10,000 plus for the base? So for the base, so what were they and where?

Absolutely. Cause I mean, if, if I was to rent a property, like say, okay, so we need to find a property that, you know, as this square feet has this kitchen and his waterfront. in a downtown, close to a downtown. I would compare other areas and property to this and then come up with the base and then, like you said, align the interest with the 5%. Now, the 5% is attached to gross sales. If it's 10,000 plus 5%, what are we looking at?

Because I don't know what the gross sales are that they're doing. I don't have their financials in front of me to make that decision.

Okay. And I just don't have that to be able to make the decision. Then my second question is... Obviously, they've been a good partner, but if we did put it out for a request for bid, with it being such a wonderful property down there and beautiful, it would be true that we could potentially have somebody submit a proposal and do substantial improvements at their cost to operate there. That would be a correct statement?

But that's not it. We don't even want a credit. We want that. But we wouldn't know that unless we actually put it out there, right?

I'm just asking the questions. So if there was an expansion of that, Would park impact fees cover that building? No, because it would be a replacement of items. It would be a replacement. I appreciate the partnership. Thank you.

All right. Uh, deputy mayor. Yep. Thank you for your insight. Uh, when I looked at this project, Six or eight months ago, I was in agreeance, put it out for bid, do the RFP, do that. I listened to your instructions because you're the professionals of it. I do rent commercial buildings. One, you have a tenant that will take some time to move in. Two, you're exactly right. They're not coming in and say, we're going to put in 500 grand for a kitchen. You got to put in the 500 grand. I've been there or those improvements. I'm not trying to convince council whatsoever or any way because I was on th

Again, I'm not... But again, that's... I'm sorry. I just want to be...

It's the toughest industry I've ever... That's why I say so far away from it. It's so tough of an industry. You look at the failure rate with the first three years, it's incredible.

So you don't want to sell Domino's pizza with me?

If a beer's $4.50, I'll sell them a slice for $4 or $4.50, whatever you want to do, Mayor.

Yeah, again, there's always a risk. I mean, we took the risk with, frankly, with your firm. We said, hey, we want to go in a different direction, and so we put out an RFP for an economic development firm, and I'm glad we did. I think that was the right decision. I would rather the city take the risk and get this right than to just continue just because we've always done it. And Krabbe's, like Sean said, has been a great partner. But I think we owe it to the residents to get this right and put this out for competition. You mentioned that this is a destination restaurant. And I have a couple of

Carly, you need to come up to the podium. There's a second podium. Oh, yeah, we'll get two. The mic works the same, smaller podium.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, council member Paul.

Um, I would ask if we can continue this until we get more information. And also I would like to, um, have the opportunity to go on site, to look at the, um, I still have questions about the improvements and actually go on site to see what improvements, you know, nothing beats then going on there and actually looking at it for yourself. So, um, ask if we can continue this.

10 days. All right. Well, let's, can we go ahead and just grant an automatic 30 days?

I'm good with that. I mean, because that really doesn't, yeah.

I'll catch Deputy Mayor up. So city attorney said that their lease expires in 10 days. So credit bills, Carly's asked about a 60-day extension. Council member Paul asked if she would like to go out, out on site, kind of look at the, what improvements would be done. Council member urban kind of agreed with that as well. So just catching up. I figured it.

Well, thank you, man. I would just like to ask that to be a four to six month extension because then we can really do due diligence, uh, 90, 180 days. I blinked my eye and half a year's gone. Uh, you know, so something that's, um, feasible for both the crabbies and both us.

And that's the extension of the lease. We'll still talk about this at the September meeting. We're pushing this item to the September meeting.

But at least give them the common courtesy of extending three months at 180. Something where they're confident that we're serious and we're confident that That timeframe is just too tight for me.

That was my biggest thing I put in bold. We don't want to freak people out.

In that service industry, it's an industry that you have to paycheck to paycheck people. No disrespect, but a lot of them, you don't want to. They've got a plan, too. Certainly. And we care about them.

Jeff Cooper. You want to come up here real quick? He's the numbers guy.

Deputy Mayor, why don't we just continue with the agreement we have? If that's an annual increase, let's do business as is and do it that way. And the increase will be just formidable to what their annual increase is. And then we go from there. We're asking them to hang in. and we should honor our agreement with them for the rent increase. Uh, I yield back to you mayor. I'm sorry.

So you're saying it will increase September.

A pleasure to counsel. It's fair to both parties.

No matter what the decision is next month, that gives plenty of time for one decision or the other.

Well, I think we're going to be talking about this in a month anyway. I think we're all, I would love to go out there myself. I think council member Paul as well. Council member Fletcher.

Um, I was just prepared to make a motion to continue it to the September meeting.

Okay. I'm going to go ahead and take public comment really quick because I didn't do that yet. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? Nope. With that council member Irvin, do you have anything else to say? Oh no, sorry.

Okay. Uh, all in one. Uh, I'm okay with that. We can do it all one.

Throw it all and mix it up and spin it up.

Motion to continue to the September meeting and allowing a six month lease extension as currently written second.

All right. We have a motion from council member. Fletcher has stated second council member, Paul, all those in favor. I'm sorry. No, we can't do that with a clerk.

Thank you all. Thank Carly. Ken. All right. Thank you. Let's go ahead and take a 10 minutes. We will go ahead and call this meeting back door. Uh, chief, did you have something you wanted to say? Do you want to address that? I was hoping you would intervene at some point.

All right. We had some loose screws, you know, you have a screwdriver or something. I don't know. So, um, that was council.

All right, thank you, Jabari. Would anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? I know we've got some citizens from that area here. Jabari, really quick, if you don't mind. So that 32,000, that gets divided up between, or is that how?

Okay. And they were given an option of an HOA, but they don't want the HOA idea, right? That's correct. Okay. That's how I recall the last. Okay.

Okay, and this is essentially what the county... Like the makeup of the deal with the county and the residents over there? Yes, sir.

All right. Anyone from the audience? No one else? Council?

The MDU with Osceola County was the assessment of these fees, and I met with some people during our break with the chief of police, and I told them we were just shifting those funds over to the city council funds to do that, and they just wanted an explanation. They were here, and they left. I met them outside with the chief of police. They just wanted an explanation, but this is just an MDU changing over to us to do that, and I'm not looking forward to, but this is something we're going to be addressing as we continue to annex and continue these systems. I agree with us passing this because T

Yeah, and folks, we're sorry, obviously, with the little kink in the system there, but I'm glad we were able to work it out and get to this point and find a way through it. Obviously, the annexation of properties is somewhat of an inconvenience for some of the issues here, so I'm glad we're making it through. All right, and if no other comments, can I entertain a motion on this one? Motion to approve. I'm sorry. No? Oh, Council Member, did you have a question?

Motion to approve. Second. You get a car.

You get a car. We have a motion from Council Member Fletcher and a second from Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll?

And we're also at the next one. It's the very similar, though, right? And will the clerk please read Council Action Number 4.

69 property, same thing. It'll be divided up between the 69?

You just remember that number off the top of your head like Rain Man, huh?

If I may ask a question. Yes, sir. This is another thing we talked about doing, but I would ask the City Council to put an expedition on cleaning the frontals of their properties because they've been in a quandary in some of the... lawns and maintenance has not been taken care of because we're, they're waiting for us to take this, take this over. So I would just ask the council, I don't know how to ask, but if we can put a priority on this, clean this thing up, show them what we do as a city, be proud of our city and, um, get this work done, uh, as soon as possible to start our, our, our partn

Anytime you adopt a baby, you give them a new blanket and food. and we're doing that, we need to take care of our residents. We really do. I just love your analogies. Well, no, yeah. You just have to. You got to feed them? No, they're good people. These are great people. They love City St. Cloud. We love them. We just have to show that we love them, I would say.

Anyone from the audience like to speak on this item? Yes, sir. Take your time, sir.

Mayor, may I ask you a question? Go ahead. Yes, sir. This isn't a net gain, this is a cost.

So does that mean we get the road too if we annex that subdivision?

Thank you all for coming to council. Appreciate that. Okay, anyone else from the audience that can speak on this item?

I think what he's asking is the trim notice. It doesn't include this. It will. His actual tax bill will include it. Yes. That's what I think you're saying.

All right. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item? All right. Council comments? Motion to approve. Council Member Urban, second. Council Member Fletcher. Will the clerk please call the roll?

All right. Will the clerk please read item number five?

All right. I had, uh, we'll go ahead to council member, uh, deputy Mary Gilbert.

I just had a question. You can go back a few slides. Um, talk about the other, the special assignment relating to the boards and all that. And obviously I, I'm on a number of, um, committees myself where like the Osceola chamber, like their retreat or, um, obviously there's Tallahassee. Well, you add the two of those up and that may hit above that number. I, I don't, No, I opted not to go to the chamber retreat last year because it was in Washington, D.C., and it was based on the finances of that. I just didn't feel that that was much needed. But in lieu, I think I went to the planning. I thin

But I am the Tri-County representative, and also I'm on Florida League of Mayors. Correct. So last week, I was down with Florida League of Mayors, and then it was the Florida League of Cities Conference. So that's where, obviously, I've taken on a larger load with those. So I don't know where that hits on the number. But I can always bring each one of them back to council, I guess.

And that makes sense, okay. Ken, you go up to Metro Plan, and there's some out-of-state or out-of-town stuff there, too. Deputy Mayor, you've got your light on, so go ahead.

Well, yeah, and I do thank you, Mayor. I'm on a few boards, as you are and all the other members are, and for the first two and a half years, I just didn't... ask for reimbursement. Now, we fill out forms and we get reimbursed, which is great, but these policies are great because we, I live less than two miles away from here. If it's not city business, I'm not doing it. And when I do go on city business, I think these policies are great policies. I think it's a win-win for the city and also for us that we don't have to track, oh, I went to this ribbon cutting, I went to this. How many speaking

I thought you don't like acronyms. I don't. It's a terminology that we do with Metro Plan is that if you travel, you get 69 cents a mile.

Now, I will say this, and that's what I was going to say in my last statement. These funds will be taxed. Yes. So you know, as counsel.

If we elect the allowance, you can take 33% off and be a taxable deduction, but that will be on us. I just don't like writing down everything. I don't mean to sound bad, but I could spend two days writing this down or two days working on getting us a new pool or getting streets and roads. I think this is fair to council. What they say, our exorbitant pay at $18,500 a year. You're going to get a raise. You've earned a raise. I yield back to you, Mayor.

Yeah, no, I, I understand. And I do appreciate that. Um, you know, just yesterday, you know, that was my, my first meeting was at the links office, uh, for, for, um, oh my gosh, what was that for? No, it was the east central Florida regional planning council. And with that, so I represent this council on the tri-county league of cities and from the tri-county league of cities and representing Osceola county. I sit on the east central Florida regional planning council where I sit with I mean, the guy on my left, Thad Altman, former state senator, county chair over at Brevard County, Lee Constan

On the record, we had a meeting last month, and I talked about the pool of cars, and sometimes I talk without knowledge, and then when I investigate it, there's only three cars for pool. So I want to go on record saying I was mistaken. I've seen city cars in the lot. And I assumed that they were carpool, but there's only three. So I want to go on a record that I did make a mistake and did say that. So I, I didn't have to, well, no, I, I have to, because, uh, the truth will set you free that I heard that before, but, uh, I made a mistake and there's three carpool, uh, things. So I want to go on

Yeah, I have noticed that they go in and out all day.

Um, you know, the staff goes in and out on that.

So, all right. Any other comments on this? Motion to approve motion approved council council member Fletcher. Second deputy mayor Gilbert.

All right. Next up we have discussion and possible action regarding the appointment to seats on the veterans council. Um, city council or city attorney, I'll let you jump in on that.

So we're going to put this on the February schedule.

We're going to point now, but the next one will be appointed in 2027. There will be no appointment in February, 2027, but 2028. Yes, sir. Will be the next time. Yes.

Cause I'm on it. That's why it's unusual.

All right. Well, I'll go start off with, with seat number one, of course, uh, Steve Monteiro, he's no longer at Channel 6. He's in another position. So unfortunately, he notified me he can't continue to serve. But I would like to nominate Kevin Martin. He's a 20-year veteran of the Army, served in Afghanistan, Iraq. And it's funny, because when Steve told me he couldn't do it anymore, it was at the very end of us accepting applications. And I happened to meet this gentleman. And I told him all the things we were doing. And he actually, he and his wife told me, he said, we moved to the city of

Yeah. So seat number two, let me, let me, can you explain again? So seat number one, um, seat number two is a two year.

Perfect. Okay. Yep. For seat number one, I'd like to appoint Kevin Martin and seat number two, Francesca Langston wants to continue on there. So I'd like to nominate her for that as well.

All right, and so we've got Council Member Paul.

Yes, I'm nominating Carlos Jones with creative one.

That is seat number three, Carlos Jones. That's Carlos with two S's, right? Yes. And then seat number four.

I reached out to Mr. Campbell, and he still wants to be on the council, so he's my second nomination.

All right. Council Member Irvin. For seat number five, I'll nominate Heather Stockdale for reappointment. And for seat number six, I will nominate Robert Mailhot.

When Council Member Paul said Tony Campbell, I go, soup. There it is. Sorry. It's getting late. My wife is going to get it. I'm in trouble again. Sorry. Sorry, honey. She's watching. I'm in trouble. But Brian and Amy have done a great job on the council. They're both reputable folks here in the city of St. Cloud, and they're great to the council. I did talk to Stacy about the reapplications, and I want to make it simpler for these people that donate their time and efforts to be reappointed to not have to go through the system again. So I'd ask council to try to find another way to say, yeah, w

All right. Amy and Brian are both good to go?

Well, you've got them expiring 2026, not in February, 2027. Didn't we just say it's going on that the February?

Don't listen to me. What month are we in? Um, everybody expired.

You can tell that everybody did their homework here with all these red nominations, and then mine's left out. I don't know. Ken didn't have one. So for seat number nine, I'm going to appoint William de Jesus, no relation to Rafael, and then I'm going to reappoint Ed Mateo.

Awesome. Yeah, and I had spoken to Ed. He enjoys being out there. He was at one of the Soldier City markets and said he wanted to continue as well, so that's so cool. Yeah, because when did he get on? About four or five months ago, I think, after he retired. Yeah, right after he retired.

Well, just before he retired, yeah. And Bill is a 20-year veteran, et cetera. Okay. I think he'll do well. We're so blessed to have such a good veteran.

Is Bill related to a nonprofit or anything?

Yes, he is. He's, I believe, the quartermaster of the VFW. He participates a lot, and I think he'll do well with you guys.

Yeah, and that's what we've been really trying to get that VFW there. The Legion sets up on the Saturdays.

I think they'll be a great, great asset to you guys.

I know Raphael's busy, but he's always doing stuff. Look, I think that's a great slate. I just want to go ahead and brag. Francesca, Frankie. you know, from the McCormick Institute. She's heavily involved. Tony Campbell, I mean, Tony's a rock star, obviously. Heather, really getting involved with the Veterans Day Parade that we got coming up. Bob Mailhot, everybody sees Bob everywhere. Bob and Teresa. Yeah, that's true. Where was she tonight? And Brian Wetzel, let me go ahead and brag on Brian and Amy. Brian, Orlando Health, I think we talked about earlier, kicked in $5,000 to help kind of jum

Motion carries 5-0. So when does this start? Not tomorrow. It'll be last year's slate tomorrow, but then this starts in the next September meeting. Okay. All right, and next up we have first readings and introduction. The next items on the agenda are ordinance before the council for first reading and introduction for the sole purpose of council authorizing the publication of the ordinance for a final hearing. The council will not take final action on the items tonight. Full presentations and public input on the ordinances will occur at the final hearing at which the council will consider final

All right, and... I don't know where that one was from, but there's no public hearing on that. And can I get a motion on this? Motion approved. We have a motion. I don't take public comment, no. Motion approved, Council Member Urban. Second. Second, Council Member Paul. Will the clerk please call the roll?

All right. Will the clerk please read first reading number two?

All right. Dan, I got a question on this. Sir. Can you explain the Board of Adjustments?

Yeah. We're saying that the Board of Adjustments is going to serve as the Construction Industry Board of Appeals. Yes, right. Because I was under the assumption it was already doing that. I was told by your chief building official, city manager, over a year and a half ago that it was. All right. We're going to have to have Bob in here. Bob, because I asked Bob, I said, what's going on with construction board of appeals? He said, oh, we use the board of adjustments for that.

So who have we been using? I just, I guess.

Yeah, I'll ask him, because I asked him specifically. It was New Year's a couple years ago. I think it was one of the events down here. But I want to ask, so what's the composition of the Board of Adjustments?

Who do we have on there right now? Can we have a list? We have a list of the Board of Adjustments. Well, and I guess my concern is I just think they're totally separate boards for totally separate reasons. And one... from my experience, one that doesn't seem that they're qualified, uh, with the experience to act as that. Um, cuz I don't think we, when we set that board in February, we didn't make those the requirements that, that the construction board of appeals that we're supposed to, uh, look at the experience. We never made that as a qualification.

So when you, so why would we do that now? Why not wait till February and set it?

Yeah, but haven't we been using IPMC for many, many years? Okay, so why now? I just, because is it the mobile home part? So why now, just because it's a multimillion dollar project, we have hit citizens with this for. Since 2009 use this code. So why now, just because it's a, somebody with multi many millions, I assume because they paid millions for the thing. Why now? Why set it now and why not wait for an appeal? As you guys know, I got a lot of experience in this.

So the IPMC doesn't, they don't put any... Emphasis on experience. Like the city council.

It says nothing about that. They don't care about any experience. It says, I mean, cause I've seen it where it says a lot of experience that they should have, should be experienced in those fields. It says a minimum of three people. Now, and Dan, you and I probably know more about this than anybody in this room and probably in the entire city of St. Cloud. I'm disturbed that we're just doing it now because we've hit somebody else with this code when the citizens, I don't care if somebody's got a $200,000 house or a $5 million mobile home park. Using this code against a citizen is just as impor

So the clock starts now. How many days do they have to respond and appeal it?

Diane, everybody's got that information. Come on. What is the appeal date? the timeline it was just a notice i think that's all there is that's the requirement they just got mayor they just got their courtesy notice which is the first step of the code enforcement process when you say they don't get an appeal in code enforcement they don't get the appeal code enforcement with ipmc you remember that you sent a letter to me saying you don't get an appeal in code enforcement on the ipmc when code enforcement uses it so why are we talking an appeal board when they don't get that they're only appeal

Yeah, but you just said it's the code enforcement doing it. But then that's not the chief building official. I've been part of that. I understand the process. You guys said when the code enforcement does it, there's no appeal process. And you said this is a code enforcement action. They don't need an appeal board.

I've only seen compliance by the actual code enforcement officer. Well, so why, why do you need the code enforcement, the building official, if it's the code enforcement officer? That's who you've got to show that they're complied with.

But then we're not hitting them with the IPMC until that, with the building official. The IPMC, you've put it in the code. You adopted that portion in 2023, if you recall. Where the chief building official is the one to use this code.

Correct. So that's where the Construction Board of Appeals or whatever you want to replace it with, that's where it would fall under there. So until that chief building official makes that determination, you don't need that appeal board.

I believe all of our citizens deserve the appellate board, every single one of them. So why are we waiting now since 2009? I mean, everybody's known this. It was advertised on the website. Well, the city manager, you were deputy city manager. You asked my dad to join that in 2017. That was nine years ago.

Well, Dan says you don't need experience. So how the hell, how do we get all these applicants?

Well, you said IPMC doesn't require experience, but I believe it does.

No, no. The, the IPMC. And I think we just need a lot of clarity as to actually what the Construction Board of Appeals is, what's the process. I've asked numerous times for this appeal form. I want my hands on that appeal form.

Where's it at? I've asked for it for a very long time and nobody will give it to me.

The city clerk created the appeal form. Yes. So when people appeal, how come that has not been handed to them? How come when the chief building official goes and makes that determination, or code enforcement, how come they're not given that appeal form?

Dan, let's go back to the beginning. We're not gonna go too much in the weeds, but I really wanna talk about how problematic this is, because this thing was created in 1994. Has this board ever been set since 1994?

Okay, but it was a hearing since you've been city attorney, but you weren't here in 1994. You were here in 1998, right? Yeah. All right, so the four years prior, do we know? I mean, we've got to have records of the city, right, of meetings. It's not that long ago. I mean, it was 32 years ago.

I would assume, but why hasn't this board been set every year? Like, what stopped, just like these other boards that we sit every year?

Um, so, um, yeah, but I don't think once, and we, we didn't get any applicants and that of course, 1994, that was, um, 15 years before he adopted 2009. Right.

That's when you started using the IPMC code.

How many days in a court, according to the 2009 IPM. So IPMC code does a citizen have to appeal? So let's just say this guy, whoever that park is, we hit them with the chief building official. Bob goes out there and does this or that and says, you got to do this. And they want to appeal it.

Let's say they're appealing the chief billing official's decision and it's something related to that. That allows them to appeal it. It'll be on the form. So when they get the form, what's the amount of days that they have to turn that form in? That's IPMC, but did we adopt that? B101, did we adopt that in the 2021 IPMC?

And that's okay because the city's got it right. But the city says 15 days. If we look up the city code, it says 15 days, but IPMC is 20 days. The 2009 IPMC is 20 days. The 2015 where citizens were hit with the 2015, all those years says 20 days, 20 days.

It's right online. Let's go ahead. I've got it right here. Do we want to go into this now? But I will tell you, the 2015, a lot of citizens were hit with the 2015, but it was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud. We went straight from the 2009 to the 2021. Nobody, Dan, you, me, and a few others understand this. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud, but I gotta tell ya, I got about 50 cases right here. 2015 IPMC that's code that was never adopted by the city of St. Cloud. How can we hit people with code that's never been adopted by the city of St. Cloud? If the

Uh, no, we're talking about the 2015. Okay. So it would have to be 2015 up until at least 2021. Cause that's when you got, uh, maybe even then it goes back and forth. Sometimes staff would use 2015. Sometime they use 2021, then they go back to 15.

But you know who the same person is. You got Jack up there, and Jack should know the law. You had Jack during these. That's the constant. Jack should know, which is why you know that when I first got on here, I wanted you to be up there because I do not believe Jack's competent in these cases. I do not believe he represented the city of St. Cloud well. And I got to tell you, I went through this process as a citizen, and we all know this. Let's call it out for what it is. The IPMC, if we adopted the 2009 IPMC, it says you got 20 days. But that's not on a B101 appendix. That's actually 101. That

No, I'm I'm saying, what is it now? I don't have that one. It, what has it been? Why is it 15 on the website? When did it change to 15 from 20? Or why was it never changed to 20 on the website? And why is your chief billing official hitting people saying they got 20 days? Walk me through this process. Somebody gets hit with this code.

If they're not given that form, because it actually says, it says that the appeal has to be written has to be submitted on the notice that is the form from the code official. So I contacted Deb Clark, who was your city clerk in charge of the boards, and I said, Deb, walk me through this. How do I appeal this? I believe that was day 18, maybe 19 of that. That becomes the 420. I don't know if y'all know that or not. I inquired about that, and she sent me this. This is actually from her email to me in April 2019. And here's the actual email. She says, Hi, Chris.

Attaches the establishing documentation for the Construction Board of Adjustment and Appeal. The city currently has no appeals, but if an appeal is received, a board can be seated. And I said... Thanks, Deb, I had a few questions regarding this process. Can you please call me when you have a moment? She says, hi, Chris, I'm forwarding your email to Doug Tillery, chief building official. The construction board of adjustment and appeal would be supported by the building department, and I'm not sure what the processes would be. After 1994, and Deb had worked there, I believe Deb Clark had worked

It doesn't matter. You guys pay the insurance company, pays the attorney. Sir.

The city of St. Cloud, Dan. I'm saying the city of St. Cloud. Thank you. I'm not here to fight with you, but you know what happened. You know how this went down. And so I'm asking you, is this the process? Is it 15 days or is it 20? I want you on the record to tell me what our code is.

How is it that? How is it that? But it's not that. I will bet you a million dollars it's not that. It's 20 days. When did you guys change it? When you guys went from, you were here in 2009, the last time you changed the code or the IPMC was 2023.

Under that section again, but then you adopted the 2009 IPMC, which changes that to 20 days.

What is the code? When the city council votes to adopt language in the code, I don't care what Muni code says. It is what actually happened in the meetings. And three years ago wasn't a long time ago. And neither was 2009. And I can show you the full agenda packets. I can show you everything that was adopted. And it's 20 days. You adopted the 2009 IPMC right here.

You adopt in its entirety unless you want to change things because you adopted all of this.

Okay. So why would the chief building official, when he goes and does this and cuts the power lines, puts 20 days? I can't answer that question. I'm going to put this on the screen. That's March 27.

I had a question too. And we can do that, but I want to clarify this. That is March 2019. Can you go to the last page, please? Second page. Go to the second page first. That is the International Property Maintenance Code. The next one, sorry, after that. Right there. IPMC. See all that? There's the acronym. You see the bottom, means of appeal. Can you zoom in a little bit, please? Application for appeal, any person directly affected by a decision of the code official or a notice under this code shall have the right to appeal to the Board of Appeals provided that a written application for appea

Well, how would they not be? That's signed. Would you say that that's appropriate? If you're saying, Dan, the code is 15 days, would you say that letter from the chief building official copied to you? I see your name on there, too, and Terry Sparkman. Do you think that that's appropriate and illegal? Do I think it's correct? Do you think that's correct?

So when somebody is given that by the chief billing official and they submit an appeal or try to appeal within the 20 days and then a hearing is not held, why? And then... has to go through a process and then the city lie in federal court and say, no, no, they had to do it within 15 days. We would have given them the appeal, they just did it too late. Well, do you realize when I got that, this letter from Deb Clark, the email, was day 18. Well, that's past the 15 days. So inadvertently, I had already missed out because I was given 20 days.

No, that never came out. We never got to that step because the city lied and the judge just said, well, he just took the city side. City never provide their code. We never got to the evidentiary hearing.

No, the law firm that defended you guys.

Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not litigating my case. What I'm saying is what, why, what is the day? How many days? Because that says 20 days, the city of St cloud adopted the 2009 that says 20 days come to find out I'm being in the 2015 is also 20 days, but the city never really adopted the 2015, but yet hit people on that for years. until I believe Mr. Barrett notified you and said, hey, this isn't even code. That's when you rescinded one against me, a 15, changed it to 2021 code, and then hit me with the 2021, but left it against other people, the 2015. I'm now on council, and you're asking me to

I agree. They had problems. But you can't hit people with code that doesn't exist. Okay? You can't hit people with code that doesn't exist. And when you do, you have to give them, if you're telling them they got 20 days, and that's what the actual code says. We'll go back to that if you want to say that. The 2009, I'm not done yet, Dan. The 2009 says 20 days. The 2015, but you guys were using the 2009. It says 20 days. So that process that Doug followed was actually right. It's 20 days.

In the Munich code. So you don't believe that when we adopt code right here where it says they have 20 days, the means of appeal for the IPMC, that they don't actually get 20 days.

But you did not adjust this. You adopted in its entirety. There were only five items. That's where you adopted.

But you also adopted this. Hold on. This is the 2009. This is the code. This 15 never existed. You guys still said you had the... Means of appeal, any person directly affected by a decision of the code official, we'll say it's him, or notice or order issued under this code shall have the right to appeal to appeals. Provide the application is filed within 20 days after the day of the decision, notice or order was served. An application for appeal shall be based on a claim that the intent of the code, the rules legally adopted, but it has to be on a form provided by the chief billing official. T

Okay, so how does somebody file an appeal if the form doesn't exist until now? How come the form was just now created and I've got emails saying I'm trying to file an appeal to the chief billing official? And I said, because you didn't provide me with this form. Made it impossible, impossible for anybody to have a right to due process here. And that's what I'm afraid with this, because if, if you're now, if we're now saying no, no, it's 15 days, I gotta tell you, I don't agree with you. And, and I get, you know, you're an attorney and, and, and, and I think you're a smart man, but, but when th

And that's why I don't feel comfortable with this. There's more information that needs to be had.

So there's no 20 days. There is no code. We do not have code that allows these folks 20 days. No, I'm asking the city attorney, please. Right now, currently, when this was adopted, which nothing should have changed since that, 2023, you guys adopted the 2021 code, but left out the B101, so the days should have stayed 20. Had you adopted the B101, it would still be 20, I think.

That's from 1994. This is 2009, but it's been the moment you adopt new dates timelines. Well, we adopt, we just, we change language in code all the time here. And I expect whether it's a, if it said 15 days and we doubt the language that when they get to appeal that language and it says 20 days now, It's my understanding that's the amount of days now, because the ordinance actually says, if you look at the bottom of all our ordinances, it says that, um, um, all, all things in, uh, in, um, you know, contrary to it or several are repealed basically that language. So it's 20 days. It's not 15. It

I really believe so. Absolutely. And with that, I'll let council member and go ahead and say something. Motion to continue, uh, item two, we have a motion to continue item two, uh, from council member urban.

This is just a lot of information. It sounds like you guys got a lot of things to work out.

And it's not personal, but I believe it's going to warrant a special workshop that we're going to have here very shortly. We have a second from Council Member Fletcher. Will the clerk please call the roll?

Next up we have a city manager, sorry, city attorney.

all right that's all i have so we've closed on it and city manager so we've got everybody looking at it to get plans done and um public works director is already trying to contact contract with ct shoe regarding uh well the architect ct shoe is that how it's pronounced i don't know hsu is that okay Um, we had a planner, her name was Shua, but it was S it was actually spelled out that way. Right. Okay. All right. Yeah. And, and when is the anticipated, have we looked at what it would, how long it would take Kevin, give a little insight. Can we have it done by new years?

I think it's a wonderful building. I think, um, it dang sure beats building one, that parking lot. And then we get to kind of keep that for, um, for our downtown.

All right. Thank you, Dan. Um, I have one other question. Was it of Kevin? Kevin, let me ask one more question. I'm sorry. Regarding Mr. Dorsey earlier, you still believe that the SOC is not the right method?

Todd's got the money. Kevin, we gotta pay for it? Okay.

It's like asking an electrician to come and finish up a job. Same thing, exactly.

I look forward to that. I really think that will be a shot in the arm here. and another tool in the toolbox.

I mean, I'm not opposed to you asking Donna for an extension on the inspection and that we can fine-tune the numbers or try and get a concession on the price. So what are y'all's thoughts on that? Ken? Oh, sorry. I was actually asking you because I knew you hit your light.

Deputy Mayor. Well, I've purchased properties, both commercial and residential properties, any time to go through an inspection, and there's numerous costs. When I've been the seller of the property, I had to cure it. And when I've been the buyer of the property, I had to get it cured. Right now, we either have to tell them to cure these things because I've read the report, or there has to be enough of depreciation value of the property that we can cure it with those dollar volumes. Let's just say we buy something for $10 and then we find out it's going to be $3 to fix it. We have the right to

That's why I think we need to try and renegotiate that price down, but call first thing in the morning. I mean, have we talked to her and tried to ask for more due diligence time since? No, based on... Because you didn't need us for that. I mean, like, we could have extended that.

Right, but due diligence time is free. I mean, we probably should have done that already. But, yeah, ask, see if you can get her to get the owner. I think he's pretty quick to respond to her. Council Member Fletcher.

Coop, I have a question. Okay. so the purchase was made with park impact fees it's intended to be made intended right so any are the repairs that would need to be done to the property would that could we use in park impact fees to do that or no what would the funding source be i would have to defer to legal i know he's going to do that to who legal lawyers

Those repairs again, I suppose you could just use the revenue from the building over time, but I mean, it's, it's gonna take a while.

There's 25,000 to 45,000. That's a big, what was that? The roof number.

And that's why during the due diligence time before we back away from the same.

But I 100% agree. I don't want to get into the remodeling business.

Because even if they came down in price, we still have to come up with money to do the repairs.

It's general fund money. It's not part of the records. I understand that.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, we knew we needed a new roof. I think you and I walked out there and knew right away, and we still couldn't get an estimate on that in 30 days, 45 days. I mean, I really think I can get an estimate on a roof in a day.

They zoom into Google earth and say, all right, this is what it'll be.

25 to 40, and that's a gutter too. Did that include the gutter on hers?

I would, like Council Member Fletcher, Deputy Mayor said, recommend going to them, seeing if they will cure it themselves. If not, we might have to walk away from this. This will be too much, I think, for the city to take on and find the funding on its own.

That would be my recommendation. So what is the number that we're asking? So we want them to cure, regardless of this, just say give them the report, cure everything on the report?

It's definitely going to take a lot, and I agree. That's... We don't want to be sitting here and be slumlords either. Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Thank you, Mayor. I'm just going to give you my opinion and that's totally at the council. The pleasure of the council decides what they are. When I walk into a building, either buying or selling a building, I always have to cure that building through the inspection process before I sell it or discount the cure the amount that it costs and and mayor and council i don't know what that cost is but i know that it's there's some cost there and this is it's a tough thing i i i bought a building it was built in 1926 and i went to sell it and i had to spend 175 000 to just to fix it before the buyer

Again, I'm not here to persuade in any way. I just know that Spending the citizens' money, I would like to spend it like I would my money for any purchases that we do. And any sales that we do also, I'd like to make sure that we sell it on an appropriate basis if we sell any of our properties and a buyer comes in. I yield back to you. This is a tough thing. Done it. Been there. You've got to buy with your head, not your heart. uh i i i don't know what else to tell you but i thank you mayor and i thank you council i i'm not going to vote either way but i'm just telling you that these things con

I believe when this was brought up, the original intent was to help either expand the park, continue commercial across, things like that. We're still moving with the overlay or whatnot, correct, to encourage some commercial activity?

So Florida and 14th? It wraps around them. We stopped at Florida, I think, and then New York has it, but that little strip in between doesn't have it.

but we can still move forward with that without buying the property. Yeah. So if a private investor wanted to come in and buy it, do whatever they wanted to, do all the repairs, we would still be encouraging that development like the original intent would be. Yes.

I would still love that if that happened. OK. Yeah. You know anybody who wants to buy it? Ken? I got to go home to my wife. What did you say earlier? Oh my gosh.

So what I heard was if the seller will agree to cure

I say we include that in our consensus saying yes, if they will not extend it, drop it. And if they're gonna extend it, go ahead and give them say we, we want, we want this stuff fixed, add that all to it.

And you're not going to do that in one day. Right. That's why. That's why. Okay. Well, yes, if you, if they don't give extension, drop it. Okay. That's my.

Yeah, that's a lot better than the Seminole County model that they did back then. Well, he actually informed me that... Weaponizing, deputizing every employee and...

Having a tax collector in a city building.

Well, again, and thank you, City Manager, for clarifying that. I was made for the appointment. It was canceled. I made other additional plans that got rescheduled. But I have to say something that... Now we're looking at a savings over $100,000 to get somebody in security to take that. I also have to envision our 77,000 people, which we kind of agree upon and sense it's offered a great service. I mean, there's no doubt about it. But they do take up parking. They do take all that. But we went to the table, and we got 100 grand. I would think for a security officer because if we have to put a po

I don't think we need an officer. And I defer. Because Doug wants to sit there.

I just defer to our chief because, as we know, we have the best police force in the United States and, of course, also Florida.

Chief Gerke, would you like to come to the podium, please?

What is your thoughts, Chief? I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you about this.

No, we've had a police officer. Oh, you mean sitting up front. Sitting up front, because I remember you had people in OUC. Oh, yes, you're right.

Chief, do the person that they hire and they pay for, is that qualified? Because I know when we go to part and settlement, they have uniformed. And it seemed like a police officer that I greeted as soon as I walked into Rotunda.

I don't want to burden you, but I... Will Bruce cover the cost?

I mean, that's pretty close to what we're paying.

Well, we're T and T we're T plus two, but that's a difference. One times 0.5. And that's the difference that that person would be a full time employee. I, I'm just asking you chief, I don't want to not have folks here, but I just hope we have the most qualified people here.

That's it. City Council Member Fletcher.

Would it be possible to go back to Bruce and asked for reimbursement costs for an officer that was dedicated to that position. That way they're fully equipped.

What about putting that money towards it and then what does that leave us, Chief, for having an officer up there? If he gave us, say, $60,000 a year to put towards an officer, what's the balance?

My concern is if there is, you know, I've been in the simulator, um, with you guys, and if you have an emergency, this is a lot faster than let me find my cell phone.

Council Member Fletcher. Would it cover the overtime that we're paying? The dollars, like if he paid the amount.

What do they do? They have an officer. I don't know if he's a county. I don't.

their tax collector space. And just as a reminder, we were, we were for cost savings.

We were already talking about doing that. Okay. Were you going to say something? No, I'm good with it. I think it's a good compromise.

Somebody's going to have a gun down there. Somebody. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Train them.

Our police chief is the greatest guy ever because he wants people with guns to qualify.

He is. Well, because when they're in his department, he makes sure they're top notch, right? Yes, sir.

Which brings me to this, and I know everybody up here likes to eat and drink coffee. I would love to see us take advantage of that traffic that comes in and maybe put out an RFP for a cafe or something to be put right up in that corner and every person has to walk right by that counter and they can eat behind the escalator and get coffee. What are your thoughts? I think Council Member Fletcher.

There's a good example of that in the hospital on Oak Street in Kissimmee. I spent 45 days there a couple months ago.

You walk through and it's right there. Yeah. Okay. City hall in Orlando, right? That's the kind of stuff. Can we go ahead and maybe Kevin or somebody kind of measure off an area and then bring it back and we can do a put it out for bid.

Do you want me to bring it back or just go ahead and work on putting a bid out?

You wanna put it out? Go ahead and put it out. Yep.

Deputy Mayor. Chief, I certainly appreciate you looking at a $187 ticket going directly to the city plus three points per fraction is what I'm thinking driving through a school zone. That's just the minimum. Civil infraction is $100 but it's not no points because you don't know who's driving. I'm a big proponent of safety in school zones and I think everybody here in the council is and so are you. I would request whoever our vendor is to fix it. They just need to fix it. I'm not telling them how, I'm not telling them why. If not, tell them to go bye-bye and find another.

Do they have to pull permits to do that in our city to fix it? Yes. And they have not applied for a permit?

So how long ago did they do that, apply for a permit? I thought it was in March. Well, they have six months to do something, get an inspection on it, or there's no permit?

I would ask the council either you fix it or you go bye-bye and we find another vendor.

Alex, are you sure you want to sit up here?

Council Member Fletcher. Golly. Are we paying them any money outside of the money that they get from the ticket? No.

Fix it. I love lawyers. I have a son in that, but fix it. I don't know. I was only responding to the part that you said, Mr. Gilbert, about fix it or basically terminate the agreement with them.

open conversation i'm sorry it's late and it just fixes i don't know what to can we i'm sorry chief can we call them and say hey the council is looking at terminating this agreement if we don't we we have done that we did reach out to them recently and coincidentally about an hour ago i did get an email from them i haven't had a chance to look at it but

And we've collected fees, but we've not done anything with them because waiting on this to see what happens.

That is correct. Wait on the lawyers to argue it out.

There's other cities too, not just counties. This group has other cities. The county is not turning them on either. Let's stick with that. They're not turning them on.

Are they harassing the contractor or the Bureau of Mobility and saying, do this?

I'm going to pray tonight a lot, but if something happens to one of those kids, then we're going to say, Oh, we need to fix it. I want to fix it before something happens. And when I was kids and when I was crossing guards.

I'm putting extra officers going 72 miles an hour. Boop. That crossing guard that's doing a job because they love it, not because they get paid a lot.

And I would I would ask you to watch yesterday's special special match I'm gonna get personal right now because my nephew runs Wayne is Inga's charter schools. He runs them in low-income areas and he has 80 schools they runs and One of the crossing guards last year got wiped out dead going 72 miles an hour dropping her kid off and under influences of ABC, XYZ, whatever she had in her body, and this was just somebody just walking a kid across the street.

I know, but when you spank a baby enough, they stop putting their hand on the stove.

So if you adopt, you gotta give them a blanket. No, you let it respectfully.

I don't remember the answer to this question, but can't we just say, turn them back on.

If that's in the statute, move them or take them down.

Are you good with that, council? Are you good with that? That's a good answer. Yep. Do it. Bye-bye. That's it. I agree. Are you okay with that council? Are you okay with that chief?

You said supplemental supplemental cameras. So is there a camera that they can place in the appropriate? That's like a temporary until this is moved.

I agree with Deputy Mayor Gilbert and the rest of the council.

That's the direction of the council. Council Member Paul said I think the four of us.

It took us three and a half years to get here. I don't want to need three and a half years before they're active.

What about wayfinding signs? You want to talk about that? Not today. All right, never mind.

Yeah. And Veronica, thank you for giving me updates as that went on. And yeah, great job, guys. That was I think I first saw it on Facebook. Nadine put it is our backyard.

Whoever texts does a great job. I don't mind. My phone's on 24-7, so thank you. Thank you. And all the citizens thanked us. I mean, that's made a tragedy into a good thing. Speaking of that, when is that road cutting through?

Now we're at that point through ever's laugh or in that area.

Just the ideas. And we've talked to the school district, I think, on that as well.

And that may fix some of the other issues with the piping and the ditch.

Yes, sir That's all thank you. Thank you very much. All right Councilmember Paul

So today I had the opportunity to go to a ribbon-cutting America swimming pool. They're located off Pennsylvania. As a board member for St. Cloud Chamber of Commerce, I did represent the city of St. Cloud and shared a few greetings on behalf of all of us. And I also, on August 6th, was invited to the South Florida facility, water management facility, did a tour there with Nicole Masters, and it was great to go out to their facility and see what they do, things they do in the community, and also build that community. professional relationship with them as well. And then last week, I did attend

all right councilmember urban i've got a couple of things uh first of all just to um thank the police chief and all the police officers out there i have been have a kindergartner now so i spend a lot of time in line waiting for pickup and drop off and i see them pulling people over left and right and unmarked vehicles and everything so i know they're out there and they're doing a great job catching those school zone speeders so thank you for that secondly At our Toho board meeting last week that I represent the city on, Toho was basically caught word or was notified that the city is planning o

Okay, did we stop that discussion, or did we give consensus to already do that?

You know what? They're a vendor of ours. We'll tell them when we're ready.

Just to give a little background, in our original agreement, the city committed to taking our charges off of their billing and they've been keeping it on there as a courtesy to us. They just need to know an answer. If the city doesn't move forward, then they're in the process of revamping their billing and they need a direction on where to go and just wanted some confirmation from the city. That was all.

I just don't want the tail walking the dog. You can call them whatever they want. They're a supplier to our citizens. I don't want them to put deadlines on us. We want to do it. We've talked about doing it, but you got to do this. You got to do this. We've been good. There are customers. There are vendors. There are citizens. All right.

In order to get it on the tax bill, when do we have to? Right. That's a better question. What is that deadline?

I mean, just so as to be on the right November.

So and that's why this process is really between the Todd city manager to come up with that. Timeline, the steps we were taking.

But Todd should be asking those questions of you. I mean, of course, it's okay that he's mentioned it to Colby, or Council Member Gilbert.

But he should be telling the counterpart over here, hey, we need to get this, tie this together. and then come to us and say, here's the timeline that we got to reach this goal.

I like that they bring this up when you need to decision by tomorrow. Can you just give us a... No, that's not what it was. What did you say? They have to know by tomorrow so it gets on the text?

Just to be clear, they're not asking for us to get it on the tax roll tomorrow. And from my conversations with Dan, this can be voted on any time for the 2028 tax roll, is that correct? Yes, 2728. 2728. So they're just asking for a timeline so we can coordinate with them as their partner. Perfect. Correct.

Can you please just give us a timeline or what we need to do?

And we still want to sell that house in Ohio, right? I saw the for sale sign in the yard.

If someone tells me I need an answer for tomorrow, I'm just weird that way. Yeah, I know you didn't say it, Dan, but if we get a year to do it, Cooper, are we cool with that?

Just last thing, I noticed the owners of the golf course were here in the audience earlier. and I just wanted to acknowledge and appreciate they were here. I've been talking with them and would like the city to continue our talks to look at that agreement and continue our partnership with them, but that's another conversation for another day.

I feel like we've had three council meetings. I'd like to say thank you again. Approving Hopkins Park was a huge milestone during my time on council and many of us up here, actually all of us up here. I would like if the council would be up to it to do a ceremonial groundbreaking sooner rather than later for it. It doesn't have to be anything. I'm sorry, which one? For Hopkins Park. It doesn't have to be a huge event. but at least a ceremonial groundbreaking for the community out there. I think they would really enjoy that. And then I know that we have talked about, you know, the moratorium. I

That's what I thought. I'm sorry, my brain kind of zoned out looking at the email.

All right. Is that it? Oh, that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Sean. Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Just one question, if I may ask the council. I got an email from a lady that's a caregiver for a disabled person, and she had asked me if, you know, she appreciates giving the free swimming to the disabled, but as a caregiver, is there any discounts that we can give the caregiver for that? My first impression was I would just find out how much it costs for a year and just do it myself. I think that's a noble cause that we'd have to give a discount, maybe a 50% to the caregivers for the people caregiving for the disabled swimming in our pool. Either way, I'm going to make sure it happens, but I

I mean, why are we charging anything for a caregiver for special needs?

I don't have that answer, Mayor. We agreed to do free for the disabled. I don't think we looked into that. You know, it's not the whole family, but it's somebody taking care of that person. So if it's a pass for both of them, Lord, please believe me, that would be the best thing ever to give a caregiver and them a pass to do that because that's what we have to do. So that's the only thing I ask besides that. I yield back to you, Mayor.

There was consensus. Believe it or not, some of us have hearts up here.

What's a vendor? A caregiver, the vendor is if you hire somebody to do it, but it's one-on-one. It's whoever's taking care of that individual. Because sometimes they bring their families.

Right. Then the physical therapist, we're not going to get a ladder.

Physical therapist isn't for a disabled person, right? If they're already a special needs individual, they get the caregiver. Whether they're going through physical therapy or not. If they're going through physical therapy just because they're going through physical therapy, that doesn't qualify as a disabled person.

No, the registration for disabled is great through Parks and Rec. There's medical records, there's all that, but just one person to care give. No matter if it's a therapist or the mom or the dad, just one person for that. That's the only thing I think of. I don't know. Council, we've got to do that.

We're not a free medical facility. We give a free pass for the disabled person and the caregiver.

The caregiver can be the therapist, Mayor. Yeah.

I think anybody that's disabled, I think we need to accommodate them. I just, that's just personal.

What kind of therapy? I mean, what are we talking about? A lot of times swim therapy.

A lot of disabled people will go in and do therapy in pools. In the shallow in there. Yeah, that kind of.

I had that conversation with Scott about the therapist. And he said if they're a business, then they need to fill out the vendor form to do that. So I think that still should be that way. But if it's someone like a mom, dad, or whatever, yes. A caregiver, right.

Somebody that's a family member or a caregiver of that, not a vendor that comes and says, hey, I got free swimming and then starts to bill people to go into our pools. People take advantage of stuff. I get that, but a caregiver is somebody that's related to or assigned to take care of that person, not somebody that makes money off of that person. I don't know the forms. I don't know anything, but I'd just like to ask council if they could consider that.

Yeah, but I don't, I mean, obviously, Ken, I appreciate the fact you're willing to cover that, but I believe that that's something that can be. Okay, thank you. I don't think it'll take anything out of the taxpayer's pockets by allowing one other person to help.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, counsel. You said what? A caregiver, not a vendor. Not for-profit vendors. Not that.

OK. Anything else you want to add, Deputy Mayor?

Just that it's almost midnight. We're going to let it all hang out after midnight.

I remember when they come out. That's about that time.

Chop up all your jokes. Ken-isms. Ken-isms. As Council Member Paul referenced, there was Florida League of Mayors on last Wednesday. I was down there. Spent time with a lot of the mayors from around the state. And then we have Florida League of Cities. she would go into some of the seminars i'd go into others would kind of break up and that way we get all the information and um yeah it is it's great to go and interact with these folks that's group therapy because i can't pick up the phone and talk about this stuff with you guys and and um girl lady sorry um it it helps you better understand yo

But yeah, it was a great experience. Um, it all just kind of ties together and, um, well, that's it. That's kind of what I've been up to the past week. And today was amazing. We had the, the police chief, we swore in, uh, he swore in a captain, a Lieutenant three sergeants brothers, the Dunn brothers. And and I did the third one was there as well, eating cake with everybody. So always an amazing experience being in the room with you folks. It's a family thing. I mean that you bring so much positivity to our city with that group. You've really nurtured them and through their their I'm so impres

He'll bring pictures next time. The new boat came in. Amazing. Courtesy of the state of Florida. So we do appreciate that. And one day Doug will have a boat just as nice as yours.

He's got a dinghy. No, y'all have a dinghy. All right, I got information section here coming up. Friday, August 21st, 2026, Veterans Council Meeting, 1 p.m., City Hall. Monday, September 7th, 2026, City Offices Closed in Observance of Labor Day. Thursday, September 10th, 2026, City Council Meeting, 6.30 p.m., City Hall Council Chambers. Friday, September 11th, 2026, Veterans Council Meeting, 1 p.m., City Hall. Thursday, September 7th, is City Hall open September 11th?

What do you care? You don't work anyway. I got retired from my retirement. All right.

Thursday, September 17th, 2026 special city council meeting 6 30 PM city hall council chambers reports warrant list number 10 fiscal year 26 recreation advisory committee minutes, may 20, 20 26 economic development advisory committee minutes. may 5th 2026 economic development advisory committee minutes june 2nd 2026 finance committee meeting minutes january 20th 2026 finance committee meeting minutes april 21st 2026 with that this meeting is adjourned and our next council meeting is 2030.