Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Any questions? We've been through the same application process constantly and this one usually falls within a duplex range. That's what we've done in the past. But you're making a good argument from my point of view.

I recall the one on Riverside, and I think that lot size was 20,000 square feet. And so the general rule of thumb was two units per every 10,000 square feet. And so that's why I'm thinking Riverside. The other one, I don't remember.

So it's a smaller unit, lower rent, less expensive to build.

More affordable for people moving in. Understood, we understand. I'll tell you that I'm just trying to be fair with everything else we've seen the last, you know, whatever number of years, five years, 10 years, whatever it was, because we've tried to decide based on the code that you're reciting. And so for us, the code is open to interpretation and there's a lot of gaps in it, right? And so you do the math and yeah, you're correct. You come out with, I believe my math is 4.7, right? And so... yeah technically it's four units but in the past we've always looked at minimum lot size 10 000 squar

So, question. I'm sorry, did you get your answer? Yes, I did.

Okay. We're going off of the existing ordinance, right, that's in place, and then understand there's a UDC that got, it's not in effect yet, is that what I heard earlier? It's adopted but not effective. And so is it appropriate to discuss that during, because we're not looking at that, we're not looking at that future ordinance, but I'm wondering if there's literature or, or if there's something in that ordinance that would allow what they're proposing, but that's not gonna be adopted until a future date, I guess. And is it appropriate to even discuss?

that Tanya had an existing structure on it, I think, right? Existing and, okay. Okay. So I tend to agree with what the applicant is saying, right? Yeah. I'm just trying to be fair with past, but there is change involved and there's trend and housing is needed and there are a lot of these lots that are out there that need a higher density so that builders and investors come in and make it profitable. And so that's where we're at, right? And everybody here's gonna have a different opinion or a different take on it. So we're just trying to decide.

Well, all I'll say is that the next item is also similar to this one. And so it's, and we have a room full of neighbors.

We didn't have nobody opposed, but the next item is very similar to this, but it's a smaller lot size.

And so, you know, it just opens up a new branch, it opens up a new, so I'm just, I'm curious to the new code, like, for example, the number of bedrooms affects your parking spaces, just straight up, the number, like this one, for example, if it was four units times three bedrooms each, that's 12 units, so you need however many parking spaces, two parking spaces per unit, so that's eight parking spaces that you need, for example, and then it reduces by, based on the number of bedrooms. So I think it's a Pandora's box if the new code doesn't address all this. We're gonna be- Right.

Okay. I have another question. And I'm just... There's a duplex behind you, right? And so that one came through here and they were only allowed a duplex. I don't remember the details on that, but I'm wondering, you don't have to answer, right? But I'm wondering if you're the owner, if not the owner or whatever, because if I'm the owner of that duplex, right? And I wasn't allowed four units and I have to build a duplex. And now I find out there's four units come up behind me. I'm not happy. So I'm wondering, who the owner is, right? But it's what it is, right? But that's what we come up against

And then further on Steadham, on the other side of the block, there's another duplex on there, there's another lot. That other R2 is a duplex as well, so everybody's, or the people that have come in have been granted duplexes, and so we need to be able to justify why this would end up being more than just a duplex, right?

We don't know. But what came here, they might have been advised before it got to us, you can only do a duplexer. We don't know. But that's a good point. What did they ask for? And that's what we're trying to base it.

Yeah, and that one was 13. Oh, okay, yeah, it's a little smaller.

Okay, so. Okay. I'm ready to like, I guess defend my opinion or my position on turning the corner and trending in a different direction going forward. Right. And that's because I see Socorro is just, my God, it's just so much is going on. So much is happening. Okay. So I'm willing to go in that direction. Okay.

So six bedroom is like a duplex with three bedrooms?

So I'm thinking that the subdivision, when it was first platted out or whatever back whenever, that all of these lots of minimum lot size in here is 10,000 square feet, right? And so staff is saying that the property area is 10,000 square feet, but the applicant stated that it's 9,914 square feet. So I'm curious to see if the applicant has a survey or how he's determining that the lot is 9,914 square feet. On clarification, what is it actually, what the applicant is saying or what staff is saying? And again, I go back, because these subdivisions, the minimum lot size on a lot of these are 10,0

So can the applicant tell us if there's an existing survey that they've ordered, they've recently purchased? Well, a survey by a... Do you have a survey from a licensed surveyor?

I think that's important. Okay, so we're looking at the site plan. The site plan was done by but there's no... engineering seal from a licensed surveyor on here. And so I'm just going back to that these subdivisions are all minimum 10,000 square foot, right? And we're getting 9,914 off the applicant and he's getting it based off of that diagram right there, right? Done by, that's a site plan done by a draftsman. And so I think that that's, very important right there it needs to be determined exactly central appraisal district says that it's ten thousands per feet so it needs to be verified i t

So exactly, let's say, yes, you're correct. If it's 10,000 square feet and you apply the math, it comes out to like 3.44 units, maximum three units. But right now what's being stated to us is 9,914, which gives us the option of saying not even a duplex is allowed unless we do the variance, right? To get the extra 84 square feet or whatever to get to 10,000 square feet. But it's important because all these lots, minimum, when they were platted, were minimum square foot lots of 10,000 square feet. So again, I'm just trying to be fair. I think it should be, I think it should be tabled in a survey

Okay. Do you know if they placed like a pin with like a stake, a metal rod with like a little red flag or something?

So I think the most, the license behind the surveyor, he's the one that can tell us exactly, okay, this is 10,000 square feet or the plat, the original file plat, you know, whatever, wherever, I don't know where you can find that. But I think, you know, as far as my decision, it's like, it's important.

Just to clarify. The other thing I'm taking into consideration is that neighbors were notified and they are making an effort, they are here. And that is a factor as well that we take into consideration.

So when is, what's the timeline for it to go into effect, for it to be signed, sealed?

What's the time? And just for the timeline, would it be like January 1st or 60 days?

Beginning of the year. Okay, but that's not written anywhere, that's the goal.

And so there's nothing we can go back to and reference right now?

No, but I'm looking at everyone that's here and I'm thinking just a mention of, so they kind of get more familiar, I guess, but how many pages are in this code again?

Of a new ordinance that's gonna govern everything that we talked about, everything that comes through here. So it's a new ordinance coming into play. It was voted on and put into play August 2nd, I think? 6th. Or August 6th, and so that's the discussion, right? So it's a lot of information that's out there that I already memorized it, I don't know about you guys. It's a lot of information, so that's why we're asking, because it helps, because that's where Sapporo's going, right, and so, yeah.