City Council - Regular Meeting

Father, thank you so much for giving us the privilege of serving our city. I pray, Father, that as we discuss the budget this evening, make decisions and craft policies, that we will always keep in mind that we're doing this for the people and for their best interests. Remind us, Father, that we are in this position not to be served, but to serve. Father, bless our staff, our city, our residents, and protect us all. We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

or any questions about the tax rate or calculations with it mr mayor and lisa i think we should proceed at this point at the no new revenue rate but i'd also like to postpone number two to the end of the meeting we are yeah all right just about when we get to the item so the differential in revenue that you're kind of looking at is um

I got too many mouses up here. From the current rate to the 1919, it's only $167,176.

So we're good for the INS? For the interest in sinking funds?

So you're saying that HB9, I just want some more clarification on that. Is that like the business had to be valued above that before they were taxed or they're able to take that off?

I think it's gonna get trickier going forward. Oh, it will Yeah, yeah, that was one of my biggest concerns when I got on council was to be The one thing that we just don't pay attention to is what happens at the state level and how that affects us. And here's the very first tickling of this coming in.

They are going to. And there's got to be some type of an amendment for cities her size

That's not counting the 141,000 that go by on the free ride.

My own. My only question, did you utilize zero-based budgeting, or did you use prior year's budget and just build on top of that and assume everything's going to happen that happened prior year without looking at cutting as much as you can?

If I have a department, I would think to me, we've laid out all the expenses I had this year. I can say, do I have to have all of this, do I have to spend all of that again next year, or can I trim this, can I trim that, and go line by line and trim as much as I can, especially if we've been coming under it traditionally?

decreased what increased stuff like that so each department had had to come forth and say this is what I busted for travel and entertainment last year I'm cutting as much as I can to save the city in these areas so my new budget for travel and entertainment next year will be this amount did every department do that

I think that's what that's not zero based budgeting. Yeah, I think it needs to be more specific if I'm going to send this this this person to entry-level training program Next year I'm not going to have that person do the same thing because he's already trained So I can cut that for to that particular training program out next year it would be better to go by department and by person and make each of those lines a Determination for each line trying to save as much as you can cutting as much an example is the the money that we spend for the city for events of Going through I know Charlie is goi

Civic Club. And it would be nice if every department had that attitude and looked at it and said, what can I do to save? Because we don't want to take taxes up if we can help it. And if we have to, take it up as little as we can possibly take.

So it looks like, I mean, if I'm reading this wrong, please correct me, it looks like our total yearly new recurring cost is somewhere around 800 grand.

Yeah, for police, pay parity, municipal court, net impact, bulk trash, equipment replacement contributions.

And then even if we go up to 0.19, as high as we can without having a tax election, What what is that going to give us an extra 165 grand if you go to the VA but just below the BAR?

So the biggest one is? Equipment replacement contributions. That's a one-time deal.

Yeah, no problem Well, the biggest things are personal expenses and contractual expenses That's really we're A lot of this is police.

You just want to talk about the whole general fund, not department fund?

Well, no, I'm not trying to make you do any work. No, you're good. I'm here, you know, so... We had the budget a week when the first thing, you know what I mean. And I'm going to pick on Ernest here. He didn't have time to really look at this. You know what I mean. Nor did I. Nor did... I don't think any of us. No, really. So I don't want to prolong the meeting. I mean, just for the sake of prolonging the meeting, but I do want to talk about some of these things.

So I'm just looking at it, and I don't have the whole thing, But we're talking about admin, okay? So their salaries and wages went up 2.4% to the tune of $9,000. The dental, accidental disbursement went up 9.42%.

I understand, but the effect of the whole budget that we're talking about, because we are going to get to the bottom line. Well, that went up. Then the group insurance is up 23% to the tune of $72,491. And those are all figures that were on the sheet. FICA's up 1.7. So when you take all of these, that's where you get your 4% personnel expenses. It's hard to sit here and just look at all this and not really know where all the little pieces are in there.

And see, going forward, this is a recurring every year. Yeah.

What was the percentage? I'd like that recent column, just the total of that.

Does that fall into, does some of that fall into the step?

So realistically, for all the different departments, we can look at, we can plan a 3% increase pretty much per year.

Is the, probably a part of what I'm, I guess I'm looking at. I know there are some costs that are associated with it. The insurance, those types of things are, a lot of that's out of our hand. The only thing we can do is shop around for a better place unless we have restrictions on that. What I'm really looking to get at is what were the percentages of the revenue for salaries? Where did that fall? What was that last year?

Just the salaries general ledger, I mean account We had to be a whole lot last year because we had the police parity but that wouldn't afford to not for admin So

Is there a way to extrapolate what 24 then was over for 25? Or you can do the 25 to 26. No, we haven't agreed on that one yet.

But just do you have available 25 to 26 of what they wage difference or increase was from 25 to 26?

So Joe, to your point, admin went up 2.4%. Finance went up 3%. There's 14, okay. Pretty even on... I don't see the salary and wages on police went up just 4% this time. It was 22% last year because of the parity. But you can find all of that. You know what I mean? But there's so much more in category 61, which is personnel expenses, the whole thing. It's what Lisa was just talking about.

And a lot of that's out of your control.

Yeah, I guess what I was just trying to get at, and 100% understand all of the variations that... An employee isn't just, I got a paycheck. Yes, it's all the other factors that go in. It's all the other factors that go into it. We need to be aware of that. So many of that, if we want to provide those benefits to our employees, which we do, those are control factors that are out of our hands. And really what I was trying to get to kind of goes back to What is the actual take home for them? Because a lot of people, benefits are benefits. Sometimes they, some people understand the importance of i

It's a completely different thing. And so my only point, and I don't want to labor it any longer, was just to try to get to, what are our manageable? And are we doing the best program for doing that? And I know that I brought it up as an agenda item, talking about, do we reconsider our process? Do we take a look at our process? Do we need to make some changes? Do we need to modify it? Are we not paying enough? Um, you know, are we not, you know, as we just give someone a, you know, a program to raise and honestly their value is greater than that. We don't want to lose that knowledge or there a

I was going to allude to that. You're in luck. Yeah. So I know that we're, but I wanted to just talk about it because these are considerations. We can consider the things we can change. Yes. Can't necessarily affect the other items if we want to provide them to our employees.

Been there, done that. Let's see, our revenue is dependent on sales tax, which we can't control at all who shops over here. Yeah. Or if they go away or COVID comes along or whatever, which devastated us several years ago.

Yeah. And the way we have it right now is our taxes is such a high dependency upon them performing terrific.

But then you sit, Joe, and look at Oak Ridge and everybody around you, and we're well below all of them. You know what I mean?

And that's good. I'm not... Yeah. It's just that I want council to look at the whole budget.

That's the landmines right now, in my opinion, for what can come down from the state. We cannot plan that.

And you have to have the sales tax. The state's 6.25% and more too, of which a half a cent is MDV.

If we run over, we can just get it from available cash. Well, you know, I'm off. What's already encumbered of it? We don't know. And I've asked her. She's done a great job addressing that. You know what I mean? So even though this says there's $3,000 in available cash, not the 180, but just the $3,000, it's really $900,000. Right?

you look at your last monthly report and that's what you had oh the three it's a three million yeah the three yeah the unexigned unsigned sorry but in other words encumbered we said we're on tam in the road with a million nine mdd said they're going to put in there you know and that's all even their money's in this pool that's what i'm concerned about why i started looking at all of this and feel the pinch that we yes we want police office yes we want to pay them but It's going to come to a point where we're between a rock and a hard place. And it's going to come, and it's close. And so do we

I do too. And I just want to make sure that we're going line by line. I'm not trying to pick anybody apart. And the things that we can control that we could say, look, I can cut here and I can cut here. I'm going to cut to the bone if I can until it hurts the city. And then that's how much I would budget. On areas like gas and things that are totally uncontrollable, yeah, you've got to take a swag. but the ones that we can control to cut it as much as we can. And there are several items, I think, that every one of those lines have to be looked at by each department head and reviewed by SAM.

They're not spending what they budget. The budget is just about, we intend to spend this amount. And if you go over, you have to have available cash like this.

If you guys will just give me a little bit of forbearance. I'm still trying to get my feet on you. Sure. I've got a very complicated, sort of a complicated question. And part of it is for CBB. And part of it is for our reserve policy.

These aren't separate questions. OK. All right, so the other separate question. So my question is this. I know this is an impossible question, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is there a way for you guys to predict general fund returns on CVB expenditures? I know that beds and beds is our phrase of choice. I'm sorry to ask this question now, it's difficult to predict, but are you guys able to look into the future and say, you know, our activities are probably going to generate so much money for the general fund?

You guys have done a great job, and I'm not questioning that. And maybe when we get to that section, I'll restate a different question. And I guess what I was trying to get to is this. We have a budget challenge, it looks like, in front of us. And my question was, and maybe it's because of my experience, is if we could revise our budget surplus policy enough to help bridge based

In a sense, if we could project activities to future income, only because we, I think we have the statutory right to have a budget stabilization. We could generate a budget stabilization if we adjusted our surplus policy. I think we could do that maybe one time. I don't know how many times we could do that. And you're right. aware of the swings in the economy and i apologize i'll i'll switch this to the cbd discussion later i was just curious because it's a complicated thing um i don't want to i mean i mean our we provide services we provide protection we provide continuity for all everyone wh

I want to jump in there are Our board has met a couple of times now, and in one situation John presented an event opportunity, and they endorsed that. They just wanted to make sure the council understood that. Hopefully John will have an opportunity at some point to bring that forward. We're hoping that he has success with it. The other thing is the board wants to participate in the annual conferences. and training opportunities. We've already scheduled them to attend Destination Texas. We opened it up to all of them, of course, and we would extend an invitation to council. I had a communicati

Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that we need the opportunity to evaluate that as a board to see how many we would like to go to. I know that Councilman Pollard is planning on going to one in October. We have several of us, including just at least five, I think. Isn't that right, Sam? Five or six from the board? And perhaps even a staff person. I'm not sure. But with that said, it would seem to me that this is a good time right now to go ahead and plan for that. We know what these conferences are. There's historical data I'm sure that you can draw on to calculate your budget for travel and hotel

I think that's very reasonable. The whole point behind that, for the benefit of our public who's listening and such, is you have a group now that's a new group. They need to learn about the best practices of the CVB operation. They need to learn what their role is. They need to understand how hot tax is used and the benefits of what we can do with it and what we cannot do with it. And the limitations. And such and such, yeah. And so the whole, it is, it's an educational process. And they need to understand and see how, John and his team connect with other CVB directors and staff across the sta

We should be able to pay for it very simply because of the ideas that each of us bring back to help our city. These conferences can be tremendous.

Thank you. You just brought up one more thing. What about taking advantage the fact that we have a really strong revenue stream that comes into our CVB. And looking at our budget and perhaps adjusting some of the expenditure level, maybe advertising and some other line items. And what about setting up a visitor's center again? I know we had one at one point, but it was way, you know, it was kind of like off the beaten path. What about having something right out here on the freeway? simple easy to get to place that has a storefront and create some space for staff and and maybe even put a police

I just had a question on, just one curious question. What is that, the capital project that was 299,000?

No, that's 45. The next item you're going to talk about, I just wanted to find it.

What about the groundwater reduction plan?

You passed through, so it's a $27,500 increase, but really that's kind of...

I'm trying to find out what you're talking about. Oh, the 52?

Is there one plan to replace the meters?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Those meters are very old. They're getting new meters.

Lisa, I thought this was really interesting. when I was looking at this graph and the major event issues. And you could see where, when COVID hit, that dip was not as dramatic as I thought it was gonna be. And then the way we bounced back from that, it just, it did, it saved the day, but it was the fact that we recovered so quickly. And that, to me, and look at Harvey. When Harvey came through, how quickly we recovered from that. And it just, in my mind, reinforces the fact that, yes, we absolutely have to have a reserve. That is a good business practice. I think we just probably can back off

But that's fine. But now we're in a situation today where we had to raise taxes last year. We're looking at what our needs are going to be for the future. If we free up some of that for the future and classify it the way the council thinks it should be, whether it be you know, committed to certain funding-type activities. I'm not suggesting that we just unclassify it and leave it there, but maybe some of that could go into available cash for the future. At any rate, I personally feel like 90 days is a pretty good number.

My question is, what does it cost us based on you know, what it has maybe over the last five years, how much have we had to put into the reserve to keep it at that $180,000?

It's self-supporting, basically, Joan. I'm sorry. It's self-supporting, basically. $100,000, $90,000.

That's money we didn't spend. That's money we did not spend. Right.

Yeah. Do we have an official austerity plan already? Have we already looked in case something happens?

We don't have a policy written. No. But we have a good plan of what to do. A priority plan. You know what I mean. But it's not etched in stone.

Well, I'd like to propose that we revise our reserve policy and that we ask our city administrator to make a recommendation to the council on the number of days. Have his input on here as well.

You never mentioned warrants, FTAs, for example, that kills the police department.

It was a big annoyance to the residents. I got called up here, I think, about twice a year to serve on the court, and I hated it. Everybody I know hated coming down here for that. And it irritates everybody. It also gives the image in the community how bad we are, how bad our police force is.

If we did need a jury pull, it would be our... We don't have that many people in this community to go to those meetings. And what was it, every Tuesday or so, every Wednesday, you would have a court?

Thing to do All right Can municipalities share court facilities and split costs are in split revenue I

Well, sure, I gotta jump in here. As you all know, I sat on his side of the bench when it came to public administration, and all my organizations did this. This is actually fun to go through. For a council to go through a strategic planning session with staff, you get together, you do a retreat, you spend time. Establishing what your vision is, what your mission's gonna be. You identify those things, you set goals. Usually, I've seen, I think anywhere from six to eight major goals will evolve. They'll come out of this conversation. Goals about staff, goals about public works, goals about parks

You have a comprehensive plan. Comprehensive 10-year plan, yeah. There's a big vision required by a statute, basically. The state's required. How are you going to deal with these major projects? Mobility, all that kind of stuff. This is how you're going to operate.

I just, more of, I guess I'm still trying to, I've been through different things of this, and so definitively, depending on who you're talking to, what industry you're talking to, haven't been, haven't done that here in this industry, and so I'm just trying to find out what's this kind of scope, you know, the tangible scope that you can grab onto, say this is, This is the vision of looking at what we want to do for the vision that we see. So there has to be so many different types of tangibles. You know, that's, so I guess I'm looking for the financial goals.

And Joe and everybody in here, there's a couple of places you can go. go to the Woodlands Township. Look at their strategic plan. You'll get it immediately. You'll understand it. Or go to Just just let me there's a couple of other towns up in the Dallas area that have some really good ones, too I can send the council some examples of links to cities that have strategic plans you can get an idea what we're looking at

Right. So I think we'll have that conversation in our next board meeting. I suspect that you'll have a consensus from that group as well. So you might as well go ahead and move forward.

Is it getting harder to find these qualified, fit people?

Yeah, I think if you're carrying multiple certifications, we're making our people too marketable.

Do we ever, have we ever, or can we? Honestly, we did this when I was in telecommunications when we put people through certifications that we had them sign a document that they're going to be around for at least a certain amount of time. I didn't know if that's, you know, you can do it or not.

And it just helped. Texas is a right to work state, so it's a little harder. Yeah. Did it hold water? Yeah. I've tested them.

How's the turnover in that side of the engineering? For operators in specific? I was an operating engineer in New York for 33 years, but I was on the hoisting and portable side, not stationary side. This is what you're talking about. This is stationary.

But you're looking right now for someone that is an operator that's going to step into this?

Yeah, you all probably should have already had this person. in place, you know, in reality because of the amount of work that those guys do.

Raleigh, you said you want to have the best public works department in the state. That sounds like a goal and a strategic plan.

Well, that brings up, at the top, the leader there. You've got the leader is highly certified, highly sought after, I think. I think he's nearing retirement. Do we have a succession plan?

private ourselves and our employees and we're not going to take care of them. Yes, sir. Whatever their job.

Is it appropriate for me to just say what a pleasure it is to work among a group of people who aren't yelling and screaming at each other? Thank you guys, all of you.

I came here worn out today. It's been a very intense month for me. But all I wanna do now is smile because I know that my family's being taken care of here. And I really appreciate all of you guys, all of you, I really do.

Last year, I don't remember the numbers in front of us, but how far out of the line were we?

And that was from what number? I can pull that. Sorry. I'm going to pull that presentation up.

Chief, isn't Conroe's 20% jump? That's really because they didn't do anything last year.

That's why it's so yeah My I guess my question is And I tried to ask it the other day before But I didn't formalize that my words wouldn't come out of my mouth correctly. Yes You still can't get my last name, correct I But part of me is, now, as far as giving raises and things of that nature and having people reach the next pay level, especially in the police department, and excuse me, but that's, you know, You place your lives in danger every single day. And so I believe that means something, also. And the thing that I was thinking about, though, going back to it, is parity. How much, how lon

Yeah, and I and I Goodness, I appreciate one thing, your philosophy approach to how the Shenandoah Police Department should not be reactive, but should be proactive. And I think to have individuals like that, you want them to be of the highest caliber in their So, no, I'm just, you know, I'm just, I guess it's mainly for me, it's how we're evaluating it. You know, I want to make sure that, and I've even expressed this to Sam about, you know, performance-based and certification-based. And, you know, we want the right people.

And the question is, but, I know and understand the necessity for, well, and this goes to, you're picking, your guys go through a probation cycle, so you're able to observe people, you're able to watch them, and you have an understanding expectation. And the thing that you say, if you stay here, here's how we're going to take care of you and your family. Correct. And I appreciate that. And I'm not to... saying and trying to say anything I just people are you know you're just two dollars worth you're worth two dollars an hour more right yeah whatever that's that's not the thing I'm trying to co

Well, I think what I'm saying in performance, and I'm not saying in how many tickets can you write. That's not. So that would be, yeah. That's a word jumble right there.

And I guess that's part of it. You used the term PIP, and I have no clue what that means, but I'm sure it's a performance improvement. And so my thing is there are measurements that we're doing. We're not just saying, I'm bumping you up, period, regardless of how you, I felt you, And a lot of my saying this and bringing this up is for our citizens who are listening. They're not sitting in here and hearing about this. And there's a lot that we're getting here in Shenandoah because we made that adjustment. But I don't want to see... I see these... I don't want us to be almost representing we're

Yeah. And One of the points that I wanted to make is that I just want to get some warning signs, because we got out of alignment. We just went out of alignment with pay. And then all of a sudden, we have this type of large crevice that we had to cross and build a bridge. And it was a tax increase. And if it makes sense, it makes sense. But I just want to make, internally, we need to have guidelines established like, hey, this is the exact same thing that happened that took us to where we were. non-responsive, if we have to do a parity evaluation every three years or whatever. I mean, if it rea

You made a good point there. We have a responsibility to the citizens I think what's important to understand that we have a responsibility to the citizens and that responsibility is to make sure that we have the absolute best that we can deliver in the way of services. I always think about that. What's the best benefit for the resident? I want them to have the best officers out there. I want them to have the best public works people out there. We were really in a good position, if I recall, until external forces changed that dynamic. Isn't that right? Correct. Did it start with the DPS?

What happened? The nation definitely was an uncontrollable, unforeseen.

So Mr. Mayor and Sam and... Lisa, I'd like to propose that Lisa take this amount that he's asking for per office or whatever, apply it to the personal expenses of the police department before we adopt the budget and let us see it that way. I think it would be a lot better than just talking about all these attributes and everything. If it's all right with you. Did I make sense?

No, no, Lisa. If everything stays the same. I'm just trying to put it in perspective work.

You know what I mean. I understand Joe. I know him equally as well. I know where both of them are coming from. But monetarily, I don't. You know what I mean? In our picture that we're talking about.

The number you're asking for and the number you're just saying, at what stage in the parity plan?

In my thing, we're to the good $91,500. I know you don't see this. Yeah.

Wait a minute. If we're going to revise our reserve policy...

Ask this question. You might be very right about that, but I'm not. Sure. Okay? So you have to help me understand that. Yeah. But Sam isn't it possible or is it possible that we could? Allocate out of the because we make the change In that 90 days versus 180 days that we have freed up some resources that we use a pot since we established policy here Financial fiscal policy can we not allocate some of that? to the police department to cover some of this expense and keep from raising the taxes and

Wait a minute. If I understand what you're saying, I don't know. If we make an agreement, if we... set policy that the reserves are 90 or 120. The difference of that is not, how is that going to be applied to a one-time loan if that's

But we need a gap period here. We can cover these expenses, not raise taxes and get out there and do what we need to do to generate more revenue for the city. And we're having some discussions about how we can do that. I'm just, I'm looking for a period. Give us a year to work through this.

Yeah, and I agree with you that extra money sitting over here is not a long term. Yeah.

But if we can, if we change it and say that it's 120 or 90 days and whatever that difference is, that frees that up to be used how we set policy on it. Correct? Correct. OK. So if we wanted to use that, best practice or not, I come from a family of accountants.

Sorry. My phone was going off. So if we use that money to get us through, if we find something that can continue to feed this and take care of it ongoing for the future, but that buys us the time to get there without raising the taxes during this time. Is that what? Yes. Yes, exactly.

There are so many what ifs in the world. What if, you know, press would actually tell the truth. Yeah.

And that's what you're supposed to be doing, and I appreciate it.

Yeah. And thanks. No. And because I'm... It's... I think what it is, and it's not saying to... We want to... we're making decisions that are, it's a gamble.

No, we're making a decision not to raise taxes and use this money to cover that until whatever you know can be put in place to support it on going past that yeah it's it's it's like saying we know somebody's moving in but they're not going to be here for a couple years you know but can we cover it between now and then without raising taxes i look at it as it's it's the cost of doing business when you're investing you're investing in your future right now and you have to take a little risk And that doesn't impact the reserves.

Exactly, exactly. We have an item on the budget in revenue, and it's called fund balance. a place where we fill deficits in the general fund. And it comes from available cash. It comes from the next item we're going to talk about, trash pickup. It comes from cutting expenses. I mean, it can come from a lot of different ways. Or raising taxes. What we don't want to do is raise taxes. We don't want to. We want to keep the police department 100%.

That's the whole thing we're talking about.

So if we just make it a common dollars and cents, here's what it is, then we can make a better decision and get all of the emotions out of this conversation. That's all I'm saying. Because I want to do the best that we can. And can we support it long term yeah? We did something with the trash. It's going to go right back on the rest I mean, it's yeah And we don't know what the state's going to do to us So if I hear you right what we want to do is is

Yeah, right. We're saying we don't bring it to 90, maybe 120, or whatever that number is. Let's see what that is. It protects us still.

No, you're good. You just got to put it in one lump sum. Say, OK, here it is. Takes the emotion and everything. Then we can figure out how to pay for it. OK. No. We will.

If it affects other sides of the budget, we want to know that too. So that's why I asked the way I asked. It's going to be more work for you, yes.

Yes, I do. That's not nearly as much of that. I thought that was a good thing. I know you wanted to bring it out of not department, but yeah.

Remember when Rich Wheeler asked, what's the true cost of a police officer? True cost of water? Exactly.

That would not affect the contract adversely.

There you go. So now we've got everything in place.

Well, no, you brought up extra cans, which I get that question all the time. And the fact that it's $7.50 per can, per month, it's not the can they're building. It's the trash that you put in that can that they're hauling to the dump.

It is. That is the cost. And so that is on... Not on the city. That's on the residents. It is.

What was the percentage that wanted a pickup, additional pickups?

I was one of them, and I had ten. Ten people called me.

I suspect this is more an issue of poor planning for me and my neighbors rather than an actual need for an additional day. And I also imagine that if we raise taxes to cover additional pickup days, the hue and cry would be far greater than we need to have more bulk trash days. So I really don't, for me, I personally wouldn't support any additional heavy trash days because you guys have this amazing, we have this amazing yearly deal here anywhere. If you have a bulk, if you have a, I don't know, a can of plutonium, you can bring it here. No one's asking any questions. So I think, and I'd like to. You just made that public. Seek us out. You can buy uranium on Amazon.

You weren't going to say anything, remember?

But the thing is, the only thing that I've heard that is curious to me is when people have said that, hey, they missed my cans today. Now, that's unacceptable. If we're paying the guys to take care of the business, they need to take care of their business. That's an administrative thing between you guys and our vendors. Other than that, I like the new service. I love the new cans because they're not dragging mine across the pavement to make holes where water will get out. I think for us it's been working well. We are one of the 2% that pays for the extra can. We use it. We're happy to pay it.

You know, it seems like things have really settled down now. Don't you think? Not hearing any concerns anymore.

I think that's legitimate because maybe the one time a month for the bulk pickup seems to be acceptable.

Is that how I'm not strong enough to pick up a car?

The other thing I'd like you to address is on bulk trash day, what is available, what is correct to put out there, and what is not. There is no list.

So Home Depot has these really strong bags that you can put pretty much anything and just wire it shut. I'm just saying.

Put it in that blue thing and away it goes.

And that would have to be all across all 1,400, whatever? Yes. I'd apply to every account.

Forget that idea. Bad idea. Back to your rooms.

Word, almost. Yes. No, I think we'll get that. Oh.

As I remember being in that meeting, wasn't it more intuitive even, it would give you traffic flow, traffic congestion, points also. So any studies that we want to see as far as supporting data information on Grogan's Mill and Vision Park, all of these different areas, time of day. It was a very impressive data type of accessing software that they can do.

Yeah, because it even showed traffic flow. You pick it. It provides whatever you dial into it, whatever the information you're looking for. For the price, I was surprised at how much usable data within a reasonable time that you can get.

Has the police department looked at it? I was just going to ask. What do they think about it?

What would you do with the data, Chief? Would you assign an officer to patrol that more? Good question, though, I know.

But this is a little different than a complaint. This is actually.

We're down to do we spend $10,000 for that Just to make us feel better

Well, this is not the traffic ones that the chief is putting in right now that they purchase. Those are...

Well, no, no, no. They're more than signs. They have a Doppler radar that reads and counts that vehicle going to the stop sign and away from the stop sign. It also tells you the size of the vehicle, if it's... you know FedEx or Someone else so it gives you some more intuitive the product the software that Joseph's referring to that we watched It's actually it's not a real-time Right now we can pull up the data right now and see the cars going right now. It's not it doesn't average you so That's one thing about it, but their data the pulling it up has advantages to it. I guess my only question

I would propose that you put the money in the budget. It's not a commitment to sign a contract or buy anything, but you have at least covered the cost by putting it in the budget now. And let them do some more work, research, termination, sell us on the concepts if the council's feeling going in that direction.

The reason I ask is law enforcement enforces claim areas. What does that mean? It enforces in-claim areas. This is their publication. Elected officials, political champions for eligibility. I don't see a lot of benefit in all that. I'm just thinking feature-advantaged benefit here. You're answering a lot of the questions.

I mean, it does display the actual speed. Yeah, part of it.

It displays the fee, the speed, the traffic flow. Yeah, we got it.

Even when even when it jams up on Holly Hill, I've sat up in that parking lot just to watch the reaction of people when I hit that speed sign. And you can see those brakes, the people hit. It is causing people to react and slow them down. I don't speed in the neighborhood, and I slam on brakes, too, like, oh, no.

So, you know, just it has an effect on people. Are they willing to let us run a pilot just to see what kind of information they're going to provide?

It's live data. They're collecting their data collection points. I'm kind of freaked out at how many data points are in a vehicle or on you that they're reading from and they're collecting it.

So you're saying we already have access to our neighborhood or our city?

I get that the data is already there. I'm asking, I mean, you've already answered the question. Me personally? Coming from that world I wouldn't be willing to entertain their offer unless they were willing to show us data on our on our city as in a pilot I understand front their position and understand what they think they're protecting but traffic patterns change throughout seasons if they're unwilling to share the product and Software companies do this all the time and data companies do this all the time. I personally I'm not interested in entertaining them understood

Sir I Don't see a need for this It's nice.

It's cool to have but I'd rather put my money into Compensation for our police officers same Yep, that makes sense.

I think it's a value needed when it's there. Oh

So would they be using data we already possess and analyzing it to provide? Do you have a list of what it is they would be providing for the cost?

Based on how the usage of the... Mm-hmm. When you get there, are you talking to page number one?

What form would the product be that you receive as a result of the subscription?

Yes. Do you have access right now? Subscription. No. Do you subscribe to it? Waterworks. You know, I'll look them up. I'm asking because if we already possess the data, I'm not trying to dissuade you from looking at these folks. This can be done in a few days with the current tools that we possess. Not Excel spreadsheets, but actual programming.

Chris, tell me the top five things that this software would provide to you, and then what would you do with that?

Are there specific things it would give you that would help you?

So using predictive analytics to give you a forewarning of potential asset failure and shortfalls in revenue.

So the current contract that we just approved that's going into effect, that has digital That has data that's already coming to us to let us know, like, if someone thinks they're only using 150 gallons a day, but then they're actually pumping 300 somewhere. We already have that, right?

Don't sell yourself short. You're a dozen-man team.

All right. And if I go to... Waterworth software, I can probably see examples of, and these are tailored to our city, right, would it be?

Is it clearly out of the box or do we have our own?

I'm not opposed to this. You said one thing that got my interest to just, it makes your job easier. Yeah. And you do a lot of work, and I appreciate that. So I'm just curious.

So you have already identified, in your spreadsheet, you've already identified the things that you need versus the things that you want to receive after. So if you input data, you've already identified what you can input and what you want after.

I think we should do it. I'm just going to cut it short and say it. I support that. Anything that's going to help you make you do your job better. And you don't have to hire an employee to do it.

So if not, you should do it. Do they do any other thing as far as other? measurements that we are doing or monitoring, can they expand or do we have anything else?

Well, not as far as features of its ability. As it stands right now, does this company make anything else that we currently have that we're... Oh, I've never used them on...

And this comes out of the enterprise fund?

Right. On the east side of Grogan's Mill. It's a walking trail, basically. Oh.

I'm sitting here thinking of a street that you've got some house. On your side of the street. Go ahead.

Yep. Hmm. I think that would be a wise move I

Give it to the police. You could be an engineer.

Let's do it. Have you broken out just...

They're just saying that is it replacing cables are the cables but

So you already know their specs for the cabling that they use, or they use what?

Is it unreasonable to wonder if there are other vendors? It seems like a large amount to just go straight with. I know we have a relationship with them, and I appreciate that. Do you have any idea what other vendors might charge for the same?

Did Ricotta, did they bid? their own project to you, so you have a breakdown of what's going to happen, what it's going to cost, what it's going to cover?

You said we've already decided on the concept. Have we already paid for it? I'm asking this because I don't know. If this is the one in the cloud, I mean, there are tons of cloud servers. And I'm not trying to get into your business, please understand. But this feels like a capital expenditure to me from the business side of things. I would love to see two other quotes.

No, but there are plenty of cloud providers and plenty of companies that have their own cloud. And they should. And they should be also ISO 27001. We should be their minimum of their security. This is typical in a signature standard. Sure. It's a big purchase. And we're pinching pennies because we have a little bit of a, and we're talking about altering our reserve policies because we have a little bit of a challenge with our budget even if even if somebody else was 10 different that's 24 grand that could i don't know go somewhere i'm not saying i'm not saying we shouldn't use these guys i wou

Well, if we continue using their portal at $3,000 a year. If the greater project is $240,000, I'm not particularly personally worried about $3,000. I'm saying there are other security options, I think. In a city like Houston, there must be.

Well, sure, there are other products. Can I ask a question? When we chose Ricotta, because we're currently using, what aspects of their service right now?

So we're currently using it. What was the process to choose Verkada? Good question.

My point that I'm getting at is that we did go through a process of choosing this, this, and that. And this is an add-on to that. And that this is an add-on.

Sure, and so we have... You were aware that they went through... So are we contractually obligated to them for... Oh, no, no.

It sounds like we're buying a whole other system already.

So we're adding cameras at a quarter million dollars to the existing service of three grand a year to servers that already exist to a company that we're comfortable with and already using.

I'm not comfortable. We were already committed to it.

If we're contractually committed, then this is a different... Chris, it sounds to me like really what you're doing is upgrading.

But we're gonna upgrade all those sites, not just here.

We're gonna put Verkada cameras in this building. Now I understand. So the other sites already have the latest and greatest cameras? Yes, sir. And we're not upgrading any of those? No, sir. Different conversation, thank you very much. Correct.

I believe cameras are effective. I believe they're important. I believe $240,000 is a lot of money. Even if we had two separate services and it saved us 50 grand, I would be interested. I mostly would just like to hear, and this is the reason, a lot of companies get very complacent and very comfortable working with municipalities. and and they're very comfortable and happy to just do whatever with their prices i'm not saying this these guys are i'm not please understand no i understand um but just to keep them honest not that they're being dishonest hell i would just love to see another quote

Well, you're describing sounds a little unethical. not on your part well it's just it's the way some of these vendors work and i totally understand because i get it and because of the way these vendors work i just would like to see it sure the only thing i could do is go to another vendor that deals in verkata and ask them to re-quote it but i would get the exact same quote it's okay to it's okay to even consider a completely different system the fact is you could have two homes right next to each other with a completely different security system and still get alerts from either one i'm not sa

Where, okay, where are they made? Who's the, where are they manufactured besides China? Verkada makes their own cameras. Besides China, where are they located?

Okay, I'm good. I just, I'm going to, I'll support this. I just. I love seeing various quotes. It makes me a little nervous and scared when we have such a good relationship with a vendor that we don't even bother getting quotes.

So even if a quote supported and showed how amazing the prices were, wouldn't you feel better? Hey, man, we saved 50 grand going with these guys. Absolutely. So would it cost anything to get another quote?

I'm 100% sure council's got your back me personally I just love to see quotes, but understood we are where we are. Okay

I think we should take the staff's recommendation, put this in the budget. We've been through a process. We have a policy on how to appropriate funds. We also have a policy on how to spend them. We went through that process. Did we not? Yes. Okay. And I think that I see no reason in asking a staff member to go through another drill or exercise that's not going to really prove anything. So put it in the budget. That's my recommendation.

No, no hard feelings, man I come from a business world and and I would be scared to death to go to my boss with a cost of like that without other clothes Understood. Just just just as plain as that.

But I'm sure they're good. You guys are very confident, which I'm sure they're good.

Comments? I think it's a good one. I agree. I'm all for it. Yes.

I've been in the field with those guys, and I see them cussing about it. I mean, they hate it. They absolutely hate this system. Well, don't ask Mark.

So, Chief, the data on this video, Is it sometimes evidence submitted as evidence?

Who's doing the migration of our current data?

Okay. And that's kind of the question I was going to ask. Go away is sort of ambiguous. Who's going to destroy those? That data storage medium so it can't be exploited?

Perfect. Okay. That's where it's headed. Thank you.

Are you going to get rid of that and start hiring some people to answer the phone?

Can you make it sound like John Wayne? I was going to say make it sound like John Escotto.

I think that would be fantastic. And we have plenty of audio from all the council meetings you could use.

They're actually quite good. They're loose. They're fluent. They're actually quite good.

Yeah, even if they get to the point where they can leave a message with the person they want to get to instead of going back to the menu and listening to the whole menu.

Well, I work with call centers and call paths for 30 years.

I'm getting used to AI. It's a lot better than the menu, bouncing back and forth.

I don't like to have a personal up there answering at all times the people and answering the damn phone. There's people talking to people because we're a small enough city. We ought to be person to person.

We're going to have two classes of people who are calling in. Those who literally genuinely want information and those who want someone to console them and understand that they're hurting and emotionally damaged from some city policy. The AI is not going to emotionally connect. And those people are not going to be happy with it. However, if you genuinely want information, you'll get it. The others will be routed to a voicemail. And they can leave their passionate, impassioned plea for whatever in the voicemail. Well, then we'll be directed to someone who is there.

I'm like, how come this screen won't change? Yeah.

I keep swiping. Yeah, so, yeah, 35... Are we going to be able to zoom in on them ourselves? No, sir. Unfortunately, these are only...

And that well number two has served us well over the last 50 years.

It's only got a 16-inch line, but it worked. All right.

I'm for it, 100%. We need to get it done. We need to have it. Very important. It's been on the books for four years. Yes.

We've got the effluent line. Not the redundant line under the freeway. They want to replace the whole effluent line, right?

It's going to be side-by-side for a while? I'm sorry? You're going to put them side-by-side and keep them both or just going to increase it?

Rural, yes. About four years ago at the TML conference, I talked with the people on this that had sensors that listened to the water going through the lines and effluent. Sewer lines and water lines, okay? Is that what we're talking about?

It's good. Yeah. Yes, sir. It fell on deaf ears when I brought it up four years ago. It's all about money. I understand. That's how old they are. Well, that was great because you could tell and you could actually find where the impact is coming from. And then when you have a 16-inch water line on Vision Park blow up, you don't have to wait for SCADA to tell you, hey, the water tank's empty. You know what I mean, the hydro tank.

Which has happened, what, twice? Oh, many times, yeah. So, yeah, I'm all for it. I saw this in action. It's just phenomenal.

You can just approve the tax rate, because you're not- I would let council to decide how far up they want to go.

1918 would be the max you can go without a with okay 1911 that's my motion what was your motion to adopt it to the night well not adopt to propose to below proposed we're not adopting anything tonight to below the 19.4 right to below the 19.4 yes okay so we have we have a motion to approve

So we're gonna try to come below this but we want to have the option to go here we have to

Yes later Exactly what I'm saying. There's our option. Yeah, it's a good plan.

You can put it on the 26th, and he can pull it.

If we adopt a change in policy, you'll factor that in?