City Council - workshop

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS

YEAH. MR. MAYOR, I MOVE TO ADD TWO ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO TONIGHT'S AGENDA. WE HAVE SOME THINGS WE NEED TO VOTE ON SO I THINK WE SHOULD ADD A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT AHEAD OF ALL BUSINESS ITEMS. DIRECTLY IN BETWEEN BUSINESS ITEMS AND PUBLIC COMMENT, I'D ALSO LIKE TO ADD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

Yes, I do. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to amend the agenda to include a motion for reconsideration to the July 14th, 2026 motion to censure Council Member Dedman.

Mayor, I move to approve the agenda as amended. Second.

I'D LIKE TO EXPLAIN THAT UNDER THE COUNTY'S PERSONNEL MANUAL, ALL CITY EMPLOYEES ARE REQUIRED TO REQUISE THEMSELVES FROM ANY CITY BUSINESS. COUNTY EMPLOYEES. COUNTY CITY BUSINESS, YEAH.

Certainly. Okay. I move to approve amendment number one to interlocal agreement C025-25 with Kitsap County and authorize the Mayor to execute the amendment. Second.

Thank you Mr. Mayor. You know so I was just calling out that when you look at the actual draft There is no cap put on that. And so it doesn't talk about the materials or any of the things that we are pushing on that we're in the actual agreement. It is a blank agreement.

Sorry, I do have a question. Certainly. Um you said I just sorry you were giving an explanation so you said the approval of the amendment the first item.

Okay and then the work in the second agreement asks for an increase to the budget of that

And so I'm just trying to wrap my head a little bit about what you said.

Go ahead. So right now, if we approve the amendment for the inter-local agreement, what is the reason why the amount doesn't cover the amount that we need if it's already budgeted?

not completely correct i think councilmember morrissey is understanding your question better than i am i think so too so i'm going to try and provide some color here uh councilmember what i as i'm understanding this the first one we're voting on is the contract to do business with the county this allows dennis and his team say they need to purchase salt to put down for an ice event we're going to have that's going to fall underneath the threshold of a dollar amount to spend that he'd have to come ask authorization for us for, but they can just go buy that and that's their contract to be able t

So this is just in this agreement just gives the blank authorization to the county specifically for road pavement and but nothing else.

OKAY. SO WHAT YOU JUST EXPLAINED WAS PART A OR PART B?

Mr. Mayor, I move that the council adopt a resolution authorizing execution of a request with agreement for work under interlocal agreement C025-25 with Kitsap County in terms and conditions acceptable to the city attorney. Second.

No, unless you have conflicts of interest.

Well, it just seems weird to vote on something that I already voted no on. So do I just vote no again?

Oh, okay. I guess that just doesn't make any sense. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I prepared a statement that I'm going to read, so bear with me. I will also read the original motion that was made.

Sorry, thank you. Mr. Mayor, I'm making a motion to consider a reconsideration for the motion to censor Council Member Dedman on July 14, 2026, which failed in part due to my vote.

POINT OF ORDER. CAN YOU MAKE A RECONSIDERATION IF YOU VOTED IN OPPOSITION TO IT?

In part due to my vote. So yes, the answer is yes.

Isn't it... Sorry, I just wanna get a double check from, sorry, Mr. Mayor, may I get an answer from City Attorney Archer on this about if you, so the motion was for a public censure. And from my understanding of Robert Rules, the person had to be in favor of the motion SO EVEN THOUGH THE MOTION FAILED AND YOU WERE ON THE WINNING SIDE, YOU HAVE TO BE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO THEN HAVE, BE ABLE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR CONSIDERATION.

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO COVER THAT IN MY STATEMENT. SO PORT ORCHARD MUNICIPAL CODE 2.04.110 READS, AND I QUOTE, MOTIONS TO RECONSIDER MUST BE BY A MEMBER WHO VOTED WITH THE MAJORITY AND AT THE SAME OR NEXT SEATING MEETING OF THE COUNCIL, END QUOTE. SINCE THE MOTION ORIGINALLY FAILED DUE TO A TIE, ONLY SOMEONE WHO VOTED NO MAY MOVE TO RECONSIDER AS I'VE DONE. So as I understand, this motion is debatable only to the extent the original motion was debatable. And by adopting this motion, it places the original motion back before the city council as though the previous vote had not occurred. In other w

I'm gonna say for me, what changed my mind was the constant disruption. And it's not productive. It's not productive. It just makes things more challenging for us. It makes us look more unorganized when we're not. in the refusal to use Robert's rules of order. I fully believe that council member knows the rules of order. She started demonstrate them again tonight. So I'm sure she knows them. And after constant encouragement to do so, it continues to happen on a regular basis. After being asked on a regular basis to please wait your turn, you continue to disrupt. So I'm hoping that this motion

Council Member Rospepe. I have a statement I'd like to read into the record. I've given considerable thought on how to address this issue, not the censure motion itself, but how did we get here and how do we move forward as a council? Washington state law and Robert's Rules of Order are very clear on the role of the mayor as council facilitator. and the role in maintaining order and decorum. Likewise, we need to acknowledge that staff are the subject matter experts and it's our responsibility to engage staff and not marginalize or ignore them. The misinformation of the law and manipulation of

Yeah, I apologize for not being here last week, but after reviewing the recording of last week's meeting, I support this censure. In my opinion, this council person's conduct raises serious concerns about adherence to the parliamentary procedures and the expected standards of this body. These standards help ensure fair, orderly governance and maintain public confidence in the council's work. I believe this censure is an appropriate step to uphold accountability and preserve public trust.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I don't know that I have a lot to add from last week. I think I got most of that out other than, you know, when it comes back to the misrepresentation of the things that happened in said meeting. We all took an oath of office that I think we all uphold and I hope we all uphold it to the same degree. I put my full faith and being into that you understand the weight of what that holds and we need to make sure that we continue to represent ourselves well, that we don't erode additional trust with our community and that we move forward as a whole. So thank you. You have

Thank you. I would like to point out that it seems that council members Trenary, Diener, and Rosa Pepe have prepared statements. I would like to ask, this is a formal request, public records request for those prepared statements. Also, I do not have a prepared statement because as you saw the agenda, I was not aware, I just saw the agenda. I was not aware that there was going to be, nor was the public aware that there was going to be a motion for reconsideration made tonight. So give me grace in understanding that I wasn't prepared for this. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT COUNCILMEMBER DE

Yes. In reading Robert's rules, I had a question.

Point of order. Point of order. Oh, we'd have to wait on the motion to public censure. Okay, I'll wait. THANK YOU.

I STILL HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD WHAT SPECIFICALLY I'M BEING CENTERED FOR LIKE WHAT VIOLATE WHAT POLICY OR RCW OR LIKE LAW THAT I BROKE SO THAT WAY I CAN BE VERY SPECIFIC WHAT I'M BEING CENTERED ON.

CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE THAT CLEAR WHAT RULES I VIOLATED THAT I AM BEING PUBLICLY CENSURED ABOUT? I BELIEVE CITY ATTORNEY, IF YOU MAY, ASK CITY ATTORNEY ARCHER WHETHER OR NOT I'M SUPPOSED TO HAVE IT CLEAR WHAT VIOLATIONS I VIOLATED. in terms of what the public censure is about?

Yes, please restate it so that it is clear to me which policies and laws I am being accused of violating.

It's up to you. original motion i move that city council formally censure and express its disapproval of the conduct of council member deadman for publicly making statements about the resignation of former council member fenton despite not being present for that meeting her comments have misrepresented what occurred and have contributed to public confusion and unfairly diminished confidence in the integrity of this governing body I recognize that elected officials have the right to express their opinions and engage in public debate. However, those opinions should be grounded in accurate inform

Point of order. SO IT SOUNDS FROM THE REPETITION OF THAT I LISTENED TO IT VERY CLEARLY THAT I'M BEING ACCUSED OF NOT BEING PRESENT AT A MEETING AND THE MISREPRESENTING STATEMENTS MADE BY COUNCILMEMBER FENTON THAT WERE INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED SO MY QUESTION IS IS WHERE IS THE PROOF

No, no, this is a point of order, this has to be. Yes it is, I literally. It's a point of information.

A point of order, you cannot publicly censure somebody.

I'd like to call for the question, please.

Opposed because I was not stated, a violation was not stated.

I DID AND I WOULD LIKE TO AGAIN EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION FOR COUNCILMEMBER WARDEN AND DEANER IN THIS. I KNOW THERE ARE NUMEROUS nits to it and some changes that people would like to see and I'm fine with that. This was just a this is not a trial balloon it's a it's a work in progress. There's different ways of doing this. The one I've done before is basically starting with the section and then just working our way down and going from there if that's okay with everybody. So and obviously I also will say that Charlie and Brandi have reviewed this also and so you know if they please feel free staf

So in that case, Brandi will have to look at all the numbering and stuff. This was just done as a as, you know, starting with one and working our way down. OK, so does anybody have anything on page one besides that? Go ahead, John.

Yeah, so first of all, thank you to the team that worked on this. I had circled all the Xs on POMC, so I will just ignore that. I'd like to call out in section two, line two, approves the annual budget. Again, it's a biannual budget. Thank you. So I wanted to call that out. That's a good one. And that's the only thing for page one for me.

Anybody else? Yes, sir, Mark. In that same section, section two, we talk about the city council, and then we move and start talking about the mayor. And the second section of that sentence that starts, while the mayor and staff handle the day-to-day administration, the council provides policy direction and fiscal oversight to guide the city's work. That's a restatement of what was stated above. So I would like to see the discussion of the mayor handling the day-to-day administration removed. Yeah, it's a matter of this.

Okay, I'm sorry, where are you specifically?

So, Port Orchard City Council serves as the city's legislative authority. The council sets policy, adopts ordinances, approves the annual or the biannual budget, and oversees the city's finances to ensure accountability and alignment with community priorities. Boom. Just end it.

Comma, while the mayor and staff handle day-to-day administration, period. Turns it into a little more of a run-on, but I see where he's saying, because the rest of that is a restatement of what happened.

Okay, yeah, then cross out the council. Correct. This is where I'm going specific. Council provides policy direction and fiscal guidance. Okay, just cross that out.

I'm going at it. I look at this body and you guys did a great job putting this together, but oh my gosh, it's long. I think we need to condense it down a little bit. The 2.01 swearing in, that's all good stuff, but can we remove or discuss the idea of removing the oath will be recorded with Kitsap County? Where is the importance of that? I mean, we all know that's, when you become a council member, That happens, that's what it is. So that to me was a little bit much on that paragraph. Section 2.02, election of a council president. Can we just do one at a time?

Yeah, I don't want to discuss the swearing in part. Just so you know that the way this was written, we used other cities as, template basically and just changed words. I agree with you. I just don't want you to think that we sat there and tried to do some word filler make it as long as possible because I can drink some Starbucks coffee, but not that long. Yeah.

I'm not I don't want to run your meeting. I might kind of run this. It's like so what I'm understanding, John, you next just strike that section.

So I was going to take a different side. I'm thinking of somebody new who might just want to look at this section, understand what they got themselves into. You may not know that. Had I not had a decent relationship with Mayor Robb in getting my soaring in done, especially the first time I got elected because I actually had to travel, right, and there's some time in there, so I would have known those things. I would appreciate it, but I understand where you're coming from in not making it 33 pages. That's just my two cents. Take it or leave it. I'm not going to die on that hill.

Do we have a consensus to strike it or keep it? Kind of a thumbs up, thumbs down? I don't want to say don't care because I'd like to have up, down or something.

Does anybody have an issue if we remove it? Okay, that section's removed, 2.01. Okay.

2.02. Thank you. I have a problem with changing our current Council-Mayor relationship from Mayor Pro Temp and Council to now an election of a Council President. To me, that is a different form of government than what we as the City of Port Orchard have ran for several years. I don't see a reason to change it or change the terminology. We're not Bremerton, and I don't know any other, maybe Maybridge Island. has a council president, I believe, but I don't understand the reasoning why we would be wanting to change that.

Do you want to speak here? No. I'll take it. Basically, this was brought up as a change in title duties aren't are the same and The committee did not have a issue with it if we wish to change it back. That's fine, too I just need a consensus.

That's all I need But I would add to this if I may the duties of reading through this body the duties of the now council president are not the same as the current duties of the mayor pro temp

They're more they're more much more robust, robust. OK, and we get to those and we can decide decide on that. So do I have a consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down, sideways. Don't care. I mean, I don't mean to be rude. It's what can you live with? I'm not planning my statement for sure. Go ahead, Scott.

I feel like this is an important issue to decide perhaps now before we move forward and then try and decide it ad hoc throughout the document. okay what are your thoughts i'm i'm okay with it and if i mean it's an experiment if it doesn't work then we can go back but i'm okay with trying i am too sure john go ahead here sorry i just don't know what role i'll use counselor morrissey what role he

would do that's mayor, oversee a meeting. Besides that, he doesn't oversee a meeting. He's part of the council, and he speaks for council. He speaks to council. He deals with the mayor directly on a regular. As council, I don't understand, and I'd like to be educated if so, what is the role mayor word in there would he fill if, and the mayor will not pass away today, but if he did, Councilor Morrissey is not gonna automatically be the next mayor. I don't know why the word mayor would be in there. He's part of the council, and I think council president fits that scope. That's my word, my opinio

I might just add, as the guy who gets to wear that badge or say that sometimes, nobody has any clue what that means. And I think they'd have a better understanding in its new term. But again, I think I concur with they are adding some stuff. The mayor and I even talked a little bit about it yesterday. But by and large, other than I think the agenda stuff, it should remain the same based off what I read.

Is everybody can everybody live right now with Council present till we bring it back. That's the question. OK. I'm sorry. Thank you. It's shaking your head no. So would you like to win.

Oh I was with somebody else. It was. I don't think that's our form of government but whatever.

Is this page one or six? I'm on the next page. Okay. I'm flipping right now. Same section. Flipping right now. Number three.

like applicable in the sense of like when I asked for a show of hands so that it was clear who was voting it was like at the other meeting it was kind of like no so who makes that determination whether or not

Can we have that in writing? I would rather have that in writing in our new rules that anybody can call for a hand vote because if anybody's asking for it, they're asking for clarity and that it shouldn't be up to one person to be able to ask for that.

Council Member Morrissey. Yeah, so that is already a part of Robert's rules, because I have used that in the past to call for the question for individual votes and it is recorded by the clerk.

Yes, so in our new rules, what I'm asking is that in our new rules, we state that if somebody, anybody, any council member asks for a hand vote, that that be respected because it's just as easy to say yay than to just hurry up and put up your hand. because the other time there was somebody talking and then like I said, I only heard like two people say it, but then it was called as saying like it passed, even though I only heard two people say yay. And so that's why I was like, okay, we have a question up. And so I realized in that going on that I was like, oh, it's actually really important th

LIKE, WHO CARES? So in answer to part of your question is this show of hands was something that was used regularly when we were voting on matters during COVID and we were not meeting in person. And so that was the protocol at that time. It's been useful a handful of times since then, but I'll take a different twist. I've talked to people who think that doing both is the way to go. And the value in showing your hand as well as stating it is so that people who are watching this online, and you can see how small the screen can be for viewers, they can actually see who has voted by virtue of the h

I think I'd like to leave some flexibility if it's already in Robert's rules. I don't want to add it here. I'll stick to it because it already we start off this document by saying we're governed by Robert's rules.

Okay. Person who has the next comment going down down the list. Council vacancy. Yes, go ahead, John.

Yeah, so subsection C says for no less than one month. I would just point out, we didn't just follow that. Well, we don't know just I know. So I'm just saying I don't know if that's the right term. What would you like to see? That's the question. I would like to say I don't know. I think it depends on the expediency of when that would happen. I would I would like to see absolutely no less than a two week period because I think that's enough to be able to get out there. But again, we're setting a minimum there. And so I'm not to say that a future council couldn't do it for a month. I just don't

It's for the mayor to acknowledge me. Thank you, Mayor. I have a question about Right now I'm looking at the city council work study and the documents everybody's looking at, I realize they're not attached to the agenda packet. And so we're kind of going through this and nobody else can see what we're going through. Was there a reason for that, that it's not attached?

They were sent out in a separate email a week ago. which you could download. That's where I downloaded it.

I'll download that. I'll look for it. I'm so used to everything being on the agenda that I was like, oh, I just realized they're not attached here. Okay. Well, thank you.

If you don't have it, then I can send that to you. About a week ago. It was, I think, last Wednesday.

We're at C and we haven't settled on the city clerk would distribute published notice of the vacancy and it was, we went from a month to two weeks and now the one as soon as possible. That would be that fine. I'm comfortable with as soon as possible. Set yourself up for failure. Notice of vacancy as soon as possible. Okay, thanks.

big glaring one is E and that's vastly different than what you're doing. So I would say remove E altogether. Okay. I think each council should determine how they would like to define what that process looks like.

All right. So remove E. Can people live with that?

Why remove it? Well, in particular, this one calls out for five minutes. You know, so I just think that you'd probably want a little more deliberation and hear from a candidate more than five minutes. Do we want that this time?

I mean, as an example. Well, we're going to. Well, my thing is that we are setting this. When you say that a different council might want different, well, a different council might want all this different. We're looking at 15 years from now, they can just have something to follow. They can also take it seven years from now and change it as well. But we're just trying to set some sort of guidance for them. There should be a number on there for presentations, time, policy, the direction that we're gonna go when we're gonna do this process.

So my thought process is that may look different for a different council than this council. The types of questions you may be asking or not asking may look different. Again, I'm trying not to box a future council in so that they can do that because they'd have to look at this body of work, go do this deliberative process while still on a time clock to fill that vacancy. So I think there are certain things where you would like to be more restrictive and create narrow lane and I think there are places where you want to be less restrictive and have a much wider path I think this is one that could

I realize that we're talking about vacancies and all of that. And so after everything that happened, is it possible that we could include in our new rules that in addition to what is required by the rcw that we require um a written or form a written uh resignation or something where we require resignations that are made open and public um because i think that as long as we are more restrictive than rcw we're allowed to do that we just can't be like less restrictive but i don't know we have the city attorney here and she can answer that

Mr. Mayor. Yes. Um, with respect to that last issue, I'm not in favor of changing it. If somebody wants to tender an oral resignation, that's fine. Um, so I'd like, I'd like to kind of put that to bed. Is that something we want the attorney to look into?

Uh, nobody's stating that it can't be oral-like. formality of needing a written something written or maybe we just say that the formality of having it done at an open meeting maybe something like that like having the person come in and say oh yeah i resigned in open meaning verbally that way there can be no misinterpretation about people's words and i'm just saying that for the sake of our body that we don't ever want to have this kind of risk of litigation how what can we do looking forward to make sure that we as a body like don't have that happen

So first of all, I'm not sure there's I mean, there's always risk of litigation no matter what you do. You keep talking about what's happening as if that was a weakness. I don't see it that way. But also we may have people that want to resign orally and they're not going to do anything else about it. They're just like, I'm done, I'm going to walk.

We were still on presentation E, and the question was whether to keep it in or out, and I go back to the statement, what could you live with? I'm just going down that route, because otherwise we'll be here extending the meeting.

So would somebody like to, is there a way to rework it or would you like to just at this point in time, remove it? Remove. Okay, fine. E is removed. We have F on there. Can everybody live with F on page two? Everybody good? All right. We made it to page three. GO AHEAD, JOHN.

THE LAST WORD ON PAGE 3 IS THE ONLY THING I WOULD CALL OUT. IT IS NOT THE KICKSTAP ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE. IT IS THE ALLIANCE.

KICKSTAP ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ALLIANCE. I APOLOGIZE.

Hope you're getting this too. We'll compare notes later. All right, anything else on page three?

FRIENDLY AMENDMENT? SURE. HOW ABOUT ONE OF THE THREE? OKAY. I THINK AT LEAST IN OUR CURRENT CAPACITY, WE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB, I THINK. SO I WOULD HOPE THAT WOULD CONTINUE.

OKAY. CAPTURED? Thanks. All right. So I had one on page 5, lack of attendance, second line, their seat shall become automatically become. It seems like we got too many becomes in there. So their seat shall become automatically vacant. Remove the second become. And did anybody else have anything on page five?

guess i'm gonna schedule the time with the brandy too so it should be the mayor yep sure i had a question comment yeah so if somebody can have an excused absence because they get sick you're back on page oh sorry we were just talking about excuse uh you uh the absence So I'm looking at this language. It says a council member misses 50% of a meeting, it will be considered an absence. However, people are allowed to be sick. So if you, so you're stating that a city council member, although if they were sick ahead of time, they would be absent, they can't get sick in a meeting? That's kind of what

Section C, if a council member has a word. Last sentence in that section. Oh, last sentence, in addition to excessive.

Or if they even have an emergency, like anything, that statement does not allow for anything like that.

Okay, how would you word it? I'd look at it as case by case basis. We had a council member several years ago who had a family issue that required them to be out of town and that was excused by the council. Otherwise they would have fallen into being out of absences. That's on a case-by-case basis. That address it comfortably right now? Everybody's okay with that? I am. For now, yeah. Yep, they'll be coming back. Yeah. Okay, we're at six. The mayor had changed to the Mayor's House work schedule orientations. Was there anything else on six? Yes.

I'm sorry. Council President, 3.03? 3.03, yes. I'm really not a fan of two, three, four, or five, quite frankly. Coordinate agendas, number two, coordinate agendas for regular works day or special council meetings in coordination with the mayor. We're already running we'd already already like to have our agendas sooner in the week. We're now administrating another another level or trying to put in another level of administration into creating these agendas to get them out to us. Sometimes things aren't ready to be I mean finalized for the agenda until Friday morning and now we've got to task t

But it's one too many layers that we don't necessarily need to have in there. Number three, when needed to be a liaison between the mayor and city council to relay issues and concerns, Yeah, yes, I mean I can I can live with that one. It's I don't know that it happens. In my time being on the council, but I can see Eric's given me the years down the road. The state is looking at those 3, 4, it may have also happened this year.

You want to go about 4, 5, right now in America.

Well, just input and planning coordination with efforts with retreats and planning. I think currently and for the five years that I've been on on council, I think the mayor does a pretty good job in reaching out to us during retreats and making us aware that he needs our input and expects our input and gives us time frames to get that input to him. already. Now we need to again add another responsibility or layer in to this process. I, I think we're, it's an exercise in futility. I want to step back. Uh, Council Member Deener is over there with his hand raised. I think I had my hand up first.

i just wanted to point out that that when eric and jay and i were meeting about this and trying to craft up what the roles of the council president might look like we kind of threw everything to see what would stick we knew that this would probably want to be one of the more interesting discussion points i can certainly understand what mark And I think, if I might sum it, it's fairly well oiled now, so why add another complication to it? I think that, to your point, I think three does make sense, but I'm happy to look at toning down those responsibilities.

I'll use... the agenda one as an example, if Council Member Diener was Council President, there's no shot that he's doing that role with his day job. There's no chance he's doing that. Also, number one, 3.03 , number one, serve as a facilitator in the absence of the mayor. That's what it should be, not mayor pro tem. not gonna do anything the mayor does he's not gonna sign a contract he's not doing anything at all but he does get the vote he would vote anyhow when he's up there the mayor you mean the mayor doesn't get the vote i don't vote oh no he can vote it's 3-3 he can vote so he does vote

I may be wrong, but I do remember or think I remember that there was a, when the mayor was out of town and Beck Ashby was the mayor pro tem, There were a couple of issues that came up and it was that she was involved in and filling in for the mayor and making some decisions. And I, you know, so my point of it is, is if you're, if the mayor's gone and it's unreachable, it is the mayor's pro tem. Correct me if I'm wrong, mayor, but you know, it's kind of a fine line.

Let me add to that then. I'm not sure I'm comfortable. That was my question. Okay. not sure I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Council President making Mayor decisions.

Yeah. So can we ask for Ms. Archer to weigh in on this? Because I'm sure there's already been settled. Ms. Archer?

TO MOVE US FORWARD, COULD I ASK THAT WE WOULD, COULD PEOPLE LIVE WITH STRIKING and leave one, three, five, and six. This is, again, we'll come back to council. Could people live with striking two and four?

I'd like to strike the mayor pro tem. Sorry, Mark, I apologize.

I'm gonna strike two and four. And Eric, what was the last one? I'm sorry. I'd like to strike the Mayor Pro Tem verbiage and put facilitator. Well, he does serve as the Mayor Pro Tem in the absence of the Mayor. It still is a function. That's fine. Okay. Okay. We did change the one on orientation on 3.04.1. Is there anything else on page 6? Okay. Page 7 I had on mine to delete the section 3.06. Can everybody live with that one? It was a duplication. Is there anything else on page six? Go for it.

I believe 3.07A number 3 at the very end have a clear understanding of what may be said.

I didn't catch it. Okay. Going on that one. Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry, I'm laughing too hard. 3.073. Yep. Consult with city attorney and mayor regarding topics that relate to city liability and current litigations. I would like to strike the city attorney, consult with the mayor, and let him then take it to the city attorney. We need to keep our costs under control for direct, no offense, Charlie, but direct communication with the city attorney over just anything. I'd suggest we strike the city attorney, start with the mayor first. I can live with that.

How do we know that the mayor passes that on?

We can ask that's what you get an email reply back and it's a public record Typically matters of legalists.

We're gonna have an executive session Saying that a city so a City Council person has to go to a mayor about a legal risk issue for the city but the City Council is doesn't report into the mayor because the city council is not an employee of the mayor and the city council might have questions that have to do with the mayor but we should still go through the mayor to then go to the city attorney that's my understanding what was just said is that accurate um so what you're saying right now

I probably worded it the exact same way that you did when we were sitting there asking that. And that's the problem that I had as well is that I agree with you that it's, and what we said was when we were sitting there is I think it was like encouraged, we encouraged to go that process. But the attorney works for us as well as she works for the mayor. She works for us as much as she works for the mayor. So I think we use the word encouraged.

I had my hand up. I just want to clarify that when you look at under A, this is about when you're meeting with, speaking to, or appearing before community group or another governmental agency or representative. So I think the scenario that you were just talking about wouldn't necessarily fall under this Section A under guidelines.

Go ahead, John. Thanks. So I might want to just maybe there's a compromise here because I hear what Councilmember Trenary is trying to say. What if we're out of budget? we've exhausted our budget that we've set for the city attorney, how do we deal with that? So how about we make a, cause I also hear what council member Dedman and Warden are saying too, you know, what if they have a fundamental disagreement with the mayor? So what if instead of consult with the city attorney, if you wish to consult with the city attorney, you can check in with your council president or mayor, The mayor may or

I understand what you're saying, and I think Councilman Dedman and myself have the same mindset, which is he cannot prevent us from speaking to the attorney. Um, he's not, we don't work for the mayor. The mayor doesn't work for us. She works for both of us. I understand the dollar figures that go there and it's a lot fully understand. I just wanna use the word encouraged. Go ahead.

I'm gonna star this like three stars to come back to on this one, all right? At this point in time, what I'd like to do, if it's okay with council, is go to 8.30 and then look at our questions and realize that we will have to bring this back or get additional information. So if we could go through, I've started and we'll come back to that one, okay? Page nine.

Yep. i think the clerk should be included in that too so mayor council president and city clerk as soon as possible after this book so when you send that email you're just sending it to all three people as a catch-all you said you were on nine which section no no we're on page eight under media alert c comment is there any other comments on page eight go for it

So right now I'm a little bit concerned and we've been having this conversation with the fact that it keeps, we keep telling council members they have to go through a council president. So we're making it so that council members now have a boss called a council president. Is that what's happening?

So we're giving council members a boss when there's really, so we're creating extra layer of bureaucracy, why? You're saying exactly, sorry. Mayor, may I talk fast? May I ask Council Member Trenary a question? Okay, Council Member Trenary, sorry, you're saying exactly as if that's a good thing?

No, what you're stating is exactly correct.

I was hoping you could explain to me why. Okay.

So I will answer that one and if I'm incorrect, Eric and Scott jump in. The reason to communicate with the council president is you're not looking for a yay, nay. It's that the council president is the mayor pro tem in the absence of the mayor. And while he doesn't have the duties of signing contracts, et cetera, there are times that he or she will be representing the city. And in here somewhere, there's a no surprise rule. And that's exactly why. As much knowledge as they have, the better off they are. That's it.

Okay, so then I think then somewhere we need to include that the mayor has to send city council an email stating that mayor pro tem or council president is now being considered the pro tem slash the pro tem and then must then send another follow up email to city council when that is no longer the case. So we have to add that in.

Why? And I might point out we can't direct the mayor without it being a resolution and voted on by this body.

We have the same respect with, we asked the same respect with Chief Brown. Example, he was in a, know a magazine or a article or something and we were we were caught off guard with that he doesn't he does not work for us and so um i don't know maybe it's accountability or something not accountability with us but with him he doesn't work for us so we just kind of act ask for the same respect and the only reason why we asked that for him for him so because when that gets published who we get emails we get calls we get stopped at safeway saying what's this about gang activity you know we were cau

The obligation then goes to the council member to state that they have been authorized now as the mayor pro tem and then once that authority ends to then send an email saying this authority has ended and then making that clear if that's what we're responsible.

I don't think that's it. Whatever it is, that way it's always. I just can't tell him what to do. That's why I said, that's why we're not talking about the mayor. It would go on the Mayor Pro Tem then. I want to go with what she wants.

Yeah, the Mayor Pro Tem then, if we were supposed to follow that, there has to be very clear as to when we would need to address the Mayor Pro Tem as the Mayor Pro Tem, because otherwise you're just a council member.

So then, yeah. Example, what you said. the authority like with chief brown we don't have the authority yeah exactly we don't that's why i said ask ask he could say no we asked he said yes i mean i could ask my wife to go buy me a new car she can say no but it's not authority i'm just asking and so he said yes we do our best to communicate we don't want so we don't want to surprise anybody of course

So I got two things. I very much agree with what Councilmember Dedmon suggested that it does put when that delegation authority has been delegated that there is something added in here as a role of any council president to alert their peers. WHEN IT STARTS AND WHEN IT ENDS. I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY A FAIR ASK AND A GOOD THING. WHEN IT COMES BACK TO THIS PARTICULAR ONE ON THE MEDIA ALERT, I DIDN'T READ IT. I ALSO DIDN'T TAKE THAT TO ME AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT. I THOUGHT IT MEANT TO BCC ALL OF US TO SAY, HEY, I DID THAT. BECAUSE YOU CAN, JUST AS LONG AS WE DON'T ALL RESPOND TO IT. THAT'S THE WHOL

So I've made a note to look at the delegation of authority because it would not go in this section and we'll take a look where it would go and bring that back. Is there anything else on page eight?

OK, going going to go ahead. I'm sorry I'm I'm struggling with the response process. OK, what would you like to see? I would like to see the way it's handled right now. I'm.

I, too, would like to support that because I think, again, you're creating a position that's going to be untenable for the average person to sit in, and I have those abilities to flex out now. I'm not here to say that I would have that forever, and I don't... want that one either but I'm glad you said something because I wasn't gonna be the only one with that thought process because I didn't want to say I don't want to do that I would if this body asked me to but I can tell you that would be a tough nut to crack long term because sometimes we can get a lot of questions

I'd also like to add to that Councilmember Dedmon brought up earlier. We're bringing in another layer of control, if you will, and we were elected by the citizens to speak our mind directly. This particular statement right here basically doesn't allow us to do this, number one. I'll continue to add on to all the responsibilities of the council president. I still work. I run my own business. Scott's a hard worker. Many of us still have our own businesses. We don't have the mental capability and the physical capability to handle all of these.

I take exception to that, sir. I think we all have the mental capability. We may not have the time capacity.

You just got 20 years, you may not have the mental capability.

Okay, so if I could just kind of, I don't mean cut to the chase, but let's go. Are you looking at deleting the whole section or saying rework this section? One of my, I'll give you, a kind of, not a pushback, but one of the thought processes on this is I do not, when I see a ghost to all council, the first thing I do is I look to see if the mayor got it. You know, on that. After that, I make a decision saying I do not respond to every email. In some cases, it's a short response. In some cases, it's a little bit longer response. But I wonder sometimes if a person doesn't get a response. It was

I'd like to thank you for that. I'd like to strike it.

When you say the whole section, can I get clarity on what specifically? You're talking about?

Section B. Section B of 3.0. Okay. I concur.

Yeah, because there was a part of Section C I want to delete it anyhow, so let's just do it.

B. Okay. Yep. And then the following page 9.

Okay, so can everybody live with striking B and C at this point in time? Yep. But I'm talking about a different C. Okay.

We had moved on from 3.07 C. So we would be at, now we'd be on page nine, quasi-judicial D, if anybody had anything with that.

I have but one portion that would be one, two, paragraph three. Unofficial. On line two, matter shall be forwarded to the city clerk or staff lead. I don't think staff lead. I think city attorney should be put in there. This is a quasi-judicial matter.

But if it's, I guess that's, it would depend on what type of quasi-judicial because we can't receive some information on some of our quasi-judicial proceedings. So that's why I wanted to have the city attorney included. But if she's not worried about it,

You don't have a desire or a need to review that.

OK, so. Shorten what? Section D down a little bit.

Are you talking about quasi-judicial? I will ask our attorney to take a look at that section and Brandy to take a look in sections, see if we can shorten it, okay? Okay, can we shorten? I'm going to, if it's okay with you, go to, try to get through page 10, get down to 3.10 and stop there. Okay. So my question is on 3.09, council and staff interaction. Does anybody have any comments on that? And go ahead, John.

Section A, number two, I would add to the end of that sentence, and approved by the mayor. Where are you at, what page? Number 10, 3.09, section A, subsection two, and approved by the mayor.

Yeah, I got you now. Any other? Keep going.

And I'm actually not, now that I'm reading it, I'm not 100% sure why I had it subsectioned. I didn't write a note, so. Go ahead, Mark.

I've got a concern. I don't know if I'm just not reading it in here correctly or not. But I think council should, it talks about getting together with staff members. And I think council should direct all their questions to department heads or the clerk's office. And it needs to be defined so that we're not going out talking to the guys weeding out of public works or something along that lines, asking them questions. We need to ask the questions, pose the questions to the department heads, let them find the answers, the correct answers for us.

Do you have a section you were referring to?

I did, but my notes aren't showing me where they were. I think just oh, okay. So a number two because of staff work responsibilities, any meetings with council members will be at a mutual agreed upon time. That's kind of where I picked up on that.

So I just promoted to add and approved by the mayor is what we just kind of all head nodded on.

Well, I'd like to change that to department heads responsibilities rather than staff work responsibilities.

Okay that would okay that then I would delete what John added at the bottom if we're changing that to department heads because there are times uh when I'm doing work with with the committee I call Dennis up and I say, hey, what about this? Or he'll call me. I don't go through the mayor for that. So if we're changing it to department heads or department directors, then I would eliminate what you wanted to add. I understand what you were saying with staff, and I agree. It's kind of not a squishy one, but it depends on the level. I don't think anybody here would abuse that. hopefully not today i

Okay, could we get like a couple of half hours, we could be done this. Eric, I'm sorry, didn't mean to cut you there.

No, no, I just hope that when we're done with this, We move ourselves out of the employee manual. Because council members are in the employee manual. And I was talking to Ms. Lund about that, and I was stating that we should not be in the employee handbook. We're not employees. There are things in there that state, you know, with harassment and things like that, you know, we follow as well. There's a couple other items, too. And so people over there can look into that. to see what.

If we're not employees, we should just have whatever's in there in here.

I'd like to thank everybody for their time tonight and I think we're making progress and thank you. Scott, sorry.

I just wanted to say thank you to Eric and particularly Jay for herding all these kittens. It was a lot to go through, a lot to prep and so my thanks to both of you. We're moving forward.

Team, I said 835 or 837. We'll go ahead and get rolling. You know how I like to keep them tight. Before you, you have the same questions that were in last week's packet. I had Ms. Wallace print them and bring them with us. But I see you also see feedback from Council Member Diener. Thank you for providing that, Council Member Diener. Since you are the one who... Did your homework. Would you like to lead us off and walk us through your email?

So I didn't you know, I tried to be selective so that I wasn't like completely overshadowing the questions that we had in front of us. But I think some of these are pretty important. And the first one is how how would a potential candidate propose to manage growth in the city of Port Orchard? One of the things that I think we have to be aware of is that we have a major housing crisis, not just here, but particularly felt in Western Washington, but it's all over. And experts have agreed across the nation that the way to address that is through saturation of a housing market for housing of all t

I think it would be nice to shake it up. And if I may, I'd like to talk a little bit more about... Maybe it's too late.

But it would be nice if these questions could be done in confidence.

So before I get that, I just realized when I turned it over to you, I probably failed to set the framework here. And so I actually want to just set the framework with Clerk Wallace. Clerk Wallace, remind the team here what we've set up in the framework and what the candidates are expecting when they come to us next month.

I object to this discussion when we still haven't established our authority as a body to hold this vacancy.

Thank you. Okay. Now that we've set that framework and we understand that we're under 30 minutes and that kind of stuff, let's continue our conversation.

Okay. And that generated an additional question for me. Are we precluded from having a second round of interviews through this process? Good. Okay. I'm saying that we're not precluded and that's good. The other thing that I was just starting to say is I feel like giving away the questions in advance may not necessarily pull out of somebody genuine responses. maybe they're saying what they think we want to hear. And so I don't, maybe it's too late for this, but I'd love to explore a process whereby we give people questions one half hour in advance of their interview. I have found that that work

Thank you, Councilmember Deano. Councilmember Dedmon.

With what Councilmember Diener just mentioned, I believe that that would put any member or candidate at disadvantage who is neurodivergent who might need more time to prepare because of how, well, you understand why, or I hope people understand why. And so I would like to go on record that yes, I still think that it's an invalid vacancy, but also that as a general statement, we should always be looking out for, you know, not disadvantaging folks.

Council Member Warden. Yeah, I'll respond to Council Member Diener's statement. At first, I thought to myself, I like that at 30 minutes ahead of time, but we're not giving our packets 30 minutes ahead of time, right? They're coming on to Council from all walks of life, and we're trying to see their ability to communicate, their ability to work well, we definitely want to know their background for sure. And we got that. We got their resume. But I'm giving up. We're all given packets of things that we most still don't know about. And we're giving those on Friday. And we're voting on that on Tue

My response to that would be is when we're sitting here in the dais, we're actually being required to make split-second decisions, if you will, based on new information we learn about a matter in front of us. Like amendments to motions.

Council Member Dedman didn't know that we would be voting on something tonight that wasn't originally on the agenda.

So so there is there is a need for being able to you know be able to React rather quickly to issues and in front of you that may not have a lot of experience about and I agree That's not what the purpose of these But I also just feel like this can be gamed and and I think most good people would not gain this but

And because they have their own motivations, which may not be in alignment with council or city values at all.

It's kind of a torn between what both of you are saying and I would like to ask our city attorney. Is this one that we could discuss questions in an executive session so that these would not be public? By that I mean that we would be able to have these, give them to a half hour in advance. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, when I went through the process, I think we did get them in advance. But is that something we were able to do to, I don't mean to hide the question or get you a got you, get a little bit less preparation, so to speak.

Scott, I like the questions. We've got nine questions here if we do that i would ask is there a way to kind of on your questions make them a little bit uh more layman but i would like to adequate i would like to add a question we may not get to all 10 of them you know on that and my question that i would start out with is what are the duties and responsibility of a city council member because we don't you know the one where we i'm not being picky there scott but you know regularly meeting and working with the mayor i don't i don't know too many council members that regularly meet with the mayo

So I might also point out that, I don't know if you cut that in the email, I don't know that he verbalized it, he was also positioning to remove questions two, three, and five from the original. And so I'll just point that out. I did see you had your hand raised, Council Member Deener.

It was also my intention that maybe before we start workshopping some of these, we decide whether we want them in or out to begin with.

Well, I think that's already been decided. We can't do that in private. We have to do it in this open.

Sorry, let me start over. My intention was that we could certainly re-tailor some of the questions I proposed, but first, perhaps, are there any questions we want to take out of the nine or I think Jay added a tenth so that we don't spend time reframing those questions if we're not going to if they're not going to get the vote to move them forward.

So I think what I'd like to do to take this now hearing that and I haven't is anyone else want to put some stuff on the table because i also want to say hearing that we're going to have 10 questions and 30 minutes doesn't sound feasible and so i think yeah so i think we're going to end up having to edit that but i think what we should do at this point to get to that point is to say does anybody else have any questions they want added outside of the what i'm now seeing is nine questions and i think you added the tenth um that they want added for consideration moving forward Councilmember Wharto

Yes, I would like to know if their career conflicts with City Council if they have to recuse themselves What they do for a living that would require them to confuse can recuse themselves There's that could be that could get tricky. I

Yeah. If somebody from Kitsap County Parks decides to come here, which they're not, so I use that based off the applicants, that would really put us in a sticky situation because we have three people who can't vote on a lot of topics. especially the way as close as we are with Kitsap County up the hill and on the south end of the county, I guess every city is, I guess, Paulsville as well, but we're touching. Just tonight, two topics tonight, you and I had to step out. If someone from Kitsap County Parks came in here, we would be tough. As an example, though, I mean.

Sure. Can you give an example that's not related to county employment?

So I might throw one out. It would just be nice to know for that person coming in, right? Let's say it was Councilmember Trenary who was a candidate. It would behoove us to understand what little conflict of interest he has, but he has one. Now, he has contracts with the city of Port Orchard. I think that's fair for us to know ahead of time. Just my thoughts. I'm not saying that I'd rank this one.

That's fair. Now we have 11 questions. Now we have 11.

So, anybody else have a question they want to add for consideration? Councilmember Gennari.

I have no questions I want to add, but I do want to discuss a couple of things that I'm seeing on this list, as well as Scott's. Scott, your three questions, very well thought out, very detailed. I think almost to a fault. dumb them down a little bit. I would like to see something along the lines of the utility rates and capital planning question. I think the managing growth is a little bit deeper than we should be asking.

But we're so confined and constricted by GMA and UGW, or UGA, we can't expect Are applicants to have those statistics and that information? You're right that that is a number one topic. But we are talking about coming on and being one of seven. It can pick that up. So let me give an example of. But we need to find who they are and how they will fit. And if they have the time availability to really dig into this and do a good job on council because we all know when we first came on we didn't have all the we didn't have the idea of all the time that was going to be required to do this job effect

uh... i think we would be remiss in not asking a question about one of the issues that gets people most excited in terms of land use uh... and it's something that the state is foisting upon jurisdictions to take care of through unfunded mandates uh... an example of where this could be important is we recently had a couple of rezones. One of those rezones was pretty excitable. But I don't think people ever had a discussion about what is needed to help fix the housing crisis. Can we even fix it? And so I think there needs to be a better discussion about character and what that means and where ho

Okay, so I'm hearing there's no more questions we're adding to the list. Thank you. Clerk Wallace, can I get you to take our notes down from here, please? So what I'd like to do now is semi-rank choice voting for questions. And so I wanna do this as best we can. And so I'm gonna guide this without having to make it overly complicated and try and do a voting process like we did committees or anything like that. So I might take the liberty of leading this and saying, if I were only in charge, I would like to start with the question of a role of council member.

Clarification, if I may. How many questions are we trying to get down to?

Well, so I think we'd like to get through and see where we're ranked. I'd like to see where we rank somewhere around that five, six number, if that's okay, and then kind of go from there.

I would like five, but we'll see where we go.

Okay, so I'm not trying to box anybody in. I'm just trying to throw stuff out there that makes this process work.

I HAVE IN FRONT OF ME A 2026 COUNCIL VACANCY INTERVIEW QUESTIONS AND SUPPLEMENTAL QUESTIONS. I DON'T HAVE THE SUPPLEMENTAL. I DON'T HAVE THAT.

SO THAT WAS NOT ONE THAT WAS PROVIDED BY.

SO UNLESS THERE WAS SOMETHING ON THAT RIGHT NOW, I WAS ONLY WORKING OFF OF THE SHEET THAT MS. WALLACE PROVIDED US THIS EVENING. IF THERE WAS ANYTHING ON THAT, You probably printed it from last week's packet where all this was put together. There was multiple different possibilities you could choose from. So we're working off of this one that was provided to you this evening that only has one through six. So as I said, I think if I only had a say, I would ask the role of a council member question first. No hands? I'm not putting them in order here. Right now I'm just saying that would be within

One of them, why are you interested in serving on the city council and what do you hope to accomplish?

Yes, he's adding questions because he heard that I... The second one. Describe the strengths and experience you would bring to the council.

And that's also in your question? Okay. Are those from the supplemental?

Okay, it's okay, because we'll get through them, right? Okay, one last call. Does anyone else wish to add any potential questions to be asked? Okay, hearing none. Now back to this, and the way I'm going to try and do this without us just rank choice voting would be, if I were going to do this, this would be in my top list of questions. For me, the role of the council member would be one for sure. Is, we're good? I'm looking for thumbs, head nods, some kind of, that would make my top.

What are the duties and responsibilities of a city council member?

Next. I'm looking, I got two here. I don't see it on there. It's from Scott's question, role of a council member, on Scott's email. And we can workshop the wording. It doesn't have to be the way Scott put it, but it's a question around role of a council member. I'm seeing in general agreement there. Okay, moving forward, that's gonna be in consideration. Anybody else have a number one that is absolutely something that you would want asked? We can't miss this question. Council Member Deener.

I had that as my third if I was ranking them. So I too would like to have a managing growth question.

Again, we're not ranking them now. I just, I did so that I can see which ones I wanna keep in my top five or six. Council Member Trenary.

What skills do you possess or accomplish?

So he's on, I'm sorry, not to get us out of order, but he's on the managing growth. Would that make your top five? I'm looking for head nods to see, I can put it in a, we can come back to it after we get some. Okay. So right now we only have the role of council member. Now, council member Tremory, you have one that you would like, and that would be number two, what skills do you possess or accomplishment that you have done in the past that will directly benefit the citizens of Port Orchard, which I think also goes to the, one of the questions that you had described the strengths you would brin

Well, we put that on a, no, I'm not saying, because none of these are in order. I'm just trying to get the top questions.

Managing growth, make it a top question.

Okay. So we're revisiting managing growth. Do we feel comfortable that managing growth will be in

Those top ones it will be because that I just don't want to those are great questions Scott Yeah, I don't I just don't want all three of those in there I like that I also like What do you believe is the most pressing issue for a city, which is basically I agree the most imagine your health Martin You know, it's almost on the same bike for I I like four.

I'd like to, for a fifth one, I think number three on the vacancy interview questions, how would you balance a major capital project need against good financial fiscal management? Because we end up having to have a discussion on that. So that would be a fifth one.

I would also like to maybe add in and do another amalgamation and whether we include the utility rates in that. I think it's overall fiscal approach, right?

It's fiscal approach without being a specific because one of the things none of us possess all the knowledge to be a council member. We have all learned information by serving on different committees. I've served on every committee that we have here and I have learned so much during that time frame that I think trying to have somebody have a lot of knowledge coming in, I'm more interested in what are their perceptions but you know how would they handle something if does that make sense you know how do you balance this against that as opposed to hey utility rates against you know this that they

general dollars, capital for utilities versus, you know, there's just,

i couldn't imagine them really knowing that i mean that they do i mean fantastic but that's just to me to me we're really asking so can i before we go there i think what i'm hearing and i just want to make sure we get everybody on board with what i'm hearing uh is that we're actually talking about uh their approach to the city's fiscal policy as opposed to it necessarily having to be capital plan related, any of that. When we say we do two things, policy and budget, I think a fiscal policy or outlook on how they would do that would be a pertinent question. But I don't know the right amalgamati

Maybe there's a way we could reword the question.

well so again none of these questions are set in stone they're more topics so yeah yeah i want to wordsmith all of these is there a way but let's get the topics down and then we'll for sure work down yeah all right so we're settling on that right now i'm going to say fiscal policy uh just call it that and then we can wordsmith that i don't want to take a look at number three if you would in that area yeah that's what i'm trying to correct okay So right now I'm showing five, role of council member, describing of their strengths, managing growth. What do you believe are the most pressing issues

passionately about this should be considered we can still pair this back from what we have scott you had your hand up first and then i'll go i did i just was going to say that that i think five is good and we've got a half hour but you just said let's keep going and we can pair it back okay i would actually say let's stop here because the sixth question should be is there anything else that you want to add

And we can do that. I'm just making sure that we've provided all the feedback. I don't want to cut off public comment before.

So may I have a friendly on this? What if we go through the remaining questions that haven't been added which is 1, 5, and 6 and my middle question and see if any of those need to be included because like for example number 5 is a no-go for me.

number one is a no-go for me i mean so i think i think some of these naturally eliminate themselves but i'm just i'm not going to even worry about the other ones unless you guys think that we need to add them to the list but i hear these two are good anybody else mr edmund no okay uh Okay, so we have our five topics. Let's wordsmith those questions.

Because of where we are tonight, do you want, I'm not putting it on you, but would you like to wordsmith the questions and bring them back next at our meeting?

I'm okay with doing that if you guys want that, and then you guys can, we can wordsmith them out, and then we can make adjustments from there. Yeah. If this council's okay, we can do that, and we will just add that as a, I will caveat, we've got to keep it short next week because we're adding staff to meetings that anyhow. Yeah. Okay.

I think in the interest of time, I think that's the best move to take at this point.

Everybody agrees? I have three. Definitely going to need a fourth. One, two, three.

but oh for sure sorry thank you uh so that's uh uh four so uh i will work with that uh it will be my intention that it you get them before the packet comes out uh but that may only be my intention it may not be my reality uh i think all of you know the extra work we've had uh uh last couple weeks so uh i i'll do my best to get that uh over to miss wallace so she can disseminate that information Last of the bit here, I wanna make sure I don't have an agenda up. Was there a good of the order on the agenda that I needed to make sure there is a good of the order on the agenda? Anything for good of

I would like to thank Director Crocker for getting back information to let us know that a veteran who was who is suffering financial just I guess I'll say distress from utility bills um that they talked to him and they let him know about um the resources that we have available and also got him in contact with kitsap community resources veterans assistant manager program to um to to make sure that he received assistance so i really um love that we are our city is doing that kind of work um i would also i'll wait

Okay. I would also like to point out that a point of order is a formal statement or question raised by a member of a meeting, debate, or deliberative assembly to draw attention to a breach of established rules of procedure. Thus, my use of the point of order earlier was correct. Thank you.

Anybody else for good of the order? Hearing none, this meeting's adjourned.