City Council - Regular Meeting

Council meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the roll.

Here. I reform present. We'll proceed. If everyone will rise for the invocation led by the clerk, followed by the pledge led by Council Member Schultz.

1:01•DMDerrick Murphy

indivisible, and liberty and justice for all.

At this time, Mr. Mayor, I will turn it over to you, sir. Do you have any reports? I do not, sir. All right. First up will be Dr. Lopez with the audit, the long-awaited audit.

6:57 – 7:18•DMDerrick Murphy

Mr. President, Melinda, Dr. Lopez, what's your thoughts? Opinion about I know a lot of discussion have occurred about the audit and need to audit City finances and of you gave me several presentations. I just want to give you get your two cents on this audit as well, too and great presentation as well So

8:18•DMDerrick Murphy

Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Dr. Lopez.

Mr. Smith? I think given the council's opinion, I think if Dr. Lopez would stay through the end of this term, we'd be happy about that. I'd like to ask the young lady, and I don't know if you're prepared for a question like this, but where do you see the city's debt service at this point?

I'm just wondering, how do you find the debt service as far as the amount of debt service that a municipality should have versus assets and income?

That's probably really not a proper question for her then, is it?

Mr. Schultz. I have a couple of questions. This particular audit ends on September 30th, 2025. Is that correct? So this is for the previous administration. Is that correct? Okay. So with that in mind, it doesn't have an opinion of whether the city actually complied with the applicable laws or regulations. The only things that you report are tests that you performed. Is that correct?

Is there anything that remains that should have been tested that pertains to compliance?

And so with them being materially incorrect, would you say that was an issue with management at the time, or would you say that the auditors last year missed it?

Very good. Thank you. Absolutely. Mr. Marks, you have a question?

12:39 – 13:20•DMDerrick Murphy

Last follow-up, and I apologize. Dr. Lopez will not typically call you and ask you. Do you know offhand, if you don't, that's fine, S&P Moody's, what is our credit, and how beneficial that we may be able to get the triple-A credit What does that look like down the road, if that's possible? Because I think the Cash O'Han calculations have to be a little bit higher now to achieve some of those goals. So can you just go over that just a tad bit?

Any other questions? Has the city had a higher rating with Moody's?

Ms. Schultz. The audit was a little delayed. Number of hours that you spent on this, can you estimate how many hours you spent on it?

I just want to thank you and your firm. I know everyone laid eyes throughout the firm, top brass and everyone. Dr. Lopez, you and your staff for all the work that y'all did. Yes, it was significantly delayed longer than we would have liked, and we're confident we're going to get it on time next year. Dr. Lopez was adamant that we get this correct, uh, not, not sacrifice speed over accuracy and due diligence. So, um, for that kudos to you and your staff. Thank you. All right. Um, moving on, uh, everyone received a copy of the agenda. Do I have a motion for adoption? Mr. President make a motion

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed, the ayes have it. We'll open up with public comments. And I apologize if I get this wrong. Ami Aiken? I'll help you. Okay, come down and set me straight. Candidate for District 7, congressional candidate. If you didn't know, tomorrow is Vote, get out and vote tomorrow, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Next up, we have Ronald Bradstreet with the American Legion Post 9-11.

This young fellow sitting right here, Walt, raise your hand.

Any questions for these guys? Thank you all for listening. Thank you for your time. If I could, could we get a picture of y'all up front here, Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind?

So this body met on Thursday and went over, before we get on to that, I'm sorry, there were two other people that signed up for public comment. However, I see those are for agenda items. So the public comment portion during this time is for non-agenda items, general comments. When those come up during the agenda, I will invite you to come down and speak on those subjects. This body did meet on Thursday night and went over each item in detail. For the consent agenda, we will not discuss any of those items unless there is an item that the member of this body or the public wants to pull off the c

Those are all the consent items. Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve all the items on the consent agenda. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to the regular agenda, Ordinance Number 262709, Mr. Waldrop.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we adopt ordinance number 26-2709. Second.

I have a motion and a second. We will open this item up for discussion. Any member of council have a comment or question?

Mr. President, I'd like to reserve my time for after we hear from the public.

Mr. Shorts. On Thursday, I asked if we could have a, I was told that the Shelby County had approved that the school begin operating if this ordinance goes through. I received a letter from Mr. Griffith today, attorney for the church. Is Mr. Griffith here? Did you receive the letter from Shelby County?

President, should he come down to the microphone so he can be recorded? Yes.

Well, it would be better if he was on the microphone.

There'll be some additional ones. People at home can hear you better if you're speaking through the mic.

But not to dispute it, but we have nothing. We have just the word right now. That's correct. Yeah, I was unable to obtain anything in writing. Yes, sir. All right. I also have a question for the pastor, if he would come up. Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for coming. Our discussion on Thursday, one of the items that was discussed was, would there be any chance of you vacating the property, selling the property? And your response to that was, no, you're in for the long haul in where you are right now. So yesterday, you sent me an email. Actually, it was yesterday you sent me an email And the

Got it. I may have some additional questions once we hear from anyone else. Thank you. At this time, any other comments or questions from counsel?

I'd like to ask the attorney real quick. You indicated that they gave you verbal authorization that they would allow you to open the school tomorrow without having to file any documents or you might would file the documents but without having to go through planning and zoning or receive any Any other permissions from the county?

And what if the county was to turn you down in the end?

Thank you, Mr. President. I've got other questions, but I'll wait. Okay, Mr. Lovell.

So I just wanted to address the email that was sent last night as well as it says that the recurrent concerns that have seen or heard regarding deannexation have come from social media and in particular from one page that I believe provides an objective view of our situation as I understand it. The principal concern is that deannexation would cause a city to lose control over the future use of the property. And I just think it's important to highlight why you guys are here this evening. is because you're asking for conditional use. And so that illustrates the importance of having that type of

Yeah, I do have some questions about it as well.

So if they do de-annex, there will be a restrictive covenant placed on the property?

Mr. Walter, what did their attorney say about the time in between? After the application was filed, would they allow them to operate as a school?

38:29 – 38:40•DMDerrick Murphy

I think you answered that. The only thing I would say is if so, it will still remain, have to be used for a church.

Mr. Waller, can that covenant be modified by a future administration if they so choose?

So it's not put in stone. It could be modified. There's a procedure.

We're all three in agreement. Mr. Martin, can you speak to the current zoning of the property?

And can you enlighten everyone what C2 means?

So... If the de-annexation with the restrictive covenant goes through, this would be a much more restrictive use of property than if we kept it in the city of Hoover as is.

40:47 – 41:09•DMDerrick Murphy

Thank you. Mr. President, Mr. Martin, so walk me through one more time. Shelby County will give them a conditional use if an application is submitted. Now, Hoover's standpoint, why wouldn't we do that? I mean, I understand the rules. What is the difference in that piece of it?

42:00 – 43:01•DMDerrick Murphy

So there'll be a ordinance change to allow that. Okay. So let me ask you a question because technically I don't know what Shelby County ordinance states as well to whether they have a mechanism as well, or they're going to do it based upon however the vote. I'm not aware. Yeah. So, so Charlie, let me ask you this question. So legally could we, I mean, again, this is, you know, to de-annex for another entity to allow it to take place conditionally until they approve it, how can we do the same thing? That's my question. I mean, I don't want to technically... stop the church from proceeding forwa

43:05•DMDerrick Murphy

Not an ordinance. And we can't modify anything today.

I'd like to add something, Mr. President. Can you guys just explain in layman's terms, because I know we have folks in here that are not super well versed in planning and zoning, what is the point of a conditional use? Why do you even have that in the process? Why is that important to have?

And then on that topic, is the public able to provide input in that process?

So they would technically have two separate opportunities to share more about how they feel on information that's been brought to light through the conditional use process? And so things that could be brought to light, is a traffic study required for conditional use?

Okay, that's good to know. I feel as if sometimes the conditional use process is almost seen as a roadblock when in fact it's an open door for the public. And so I believe that foregoing a conditional use takes away the rights of individuals who should have a say with what comes to their neighborhood. So that's just what I believe and hopefully that's provided the public with some more information about the importance of a conditional use and especially in that part, that area just across the street is a place called Tattersall Park and there's been a 20 year battle, if you wanna call it that,

And I think just another, just to add a little bit more, is just down the street is a property called Pine Tree Acres. And that property was a tremendous asset to the community. It was a summer camp for children with disabilities. And that property has... changed its purpose over time. And that's to no fault of anyone, but the fact that things change, that's one constant in life is that things are gonna change. And anyways, just wanted to add that.

I do wanna speak on a couple items here. So for one question, currently the city does not have a process in place to provide a temporary conditional use for this church. Whereas Shelby County is able to provide that, the city currently does not. I don't know of a method that we have tonight to provide that. I will speak on our current conditional use ordinance. I think this is a good example of why we need to take a good look at the conditional use ordinance. and the inefficiencies, how it's currently written to process things in a timely manner. Not speaking to take anything away from the pub

I want to kind of follow up on that right there. Mr. Martin, why are we here tonight?

Let me stop you right there. Let's suppose that had not happened. Okay, let's suppose they did not have a concern about a traffic signal, okay? Would we have known that they started a school? I would not have known. Would anybody have known besides the people going to the school?

And then what would have happened? And then we would be probably right here where we are tonight having this discussion. If it was after August 11th, what would have happened?

Okay. But that's the process we have. So we're here because of a traffic light.

Mr. President, I just want to clarify that does Shelby County have a conditional use, expedited conditional use process, a temporary conditional use process in place, or are we saying that they just wouldn't enforce what's happening?

Does it, one last question, does it concern you that you guys would invest time, energy to also distribute Choose Act funds to a situation where it's temporary conditional use, so there is a likelihood that you guys would not receive approval and now you've gotten to the point where, or is it just an assumption that you guys are going to get it?

And then one other question I want to add is that there has to, you know, in the event that this does not pass, you know, there's plan B. I mean, have you guys reached out to any of the, on 119 alone, there's Briarwood Christian School and there's also Westminster School. And so have you guys thought to make arrangements there? Can you tell me about that?

One other question. Ms. Weld, are you done?

On Thursday, you were not in favor of the covenant. What happened?

Financing for... Sanctuary addition how much is that financing for a roundabout not that estimate? roughly I Think the the the financing would be for about three and a half million that sound right Carl some somewhere in that ballpark So y'all are significantly pouring back into this property investing in this Ross Mr. That miss president my last question question for you Sunday's traffic, right?

57:44 – 57:55•DMDerrick Murphy

So I get them. I'm a process guy. So I How do y'all navigate Sunday's traffic for the church? Is it light there now?

58:23•DMDerrick Murphy

So currently right now, do you have police that operates support?

58:30•DMDerrick Murphy

Okay, does it cause any traffic? No. Okay. What about Wednesday night service?

58:55 – 1:00:15•DMDerrick Murphy

I guess the reason why I'm bringing this up, because doing the planning discussion, a lot of these questions are kind of discussed as well too. Um, cuz you gotta look at safety as well. Uh, you know, it concerns me as a tab and I don't know the traffic. What were the traffic Sunday is different than a weekday when everyone's driving to school and new drivers, you got, uh, I don't know how many different schools right there in that area right there, but Shelby County, Hoover, You name it, they're, you know, so again, look, I went to Catholic, went public school K through eight and Catholic scho

And actually, yeah, I want to build on that as well, just because with the, I drive that intersection every day, multiple times a day, so I know what you mean when you say it's like awkward, but that's a, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that streetlight is owned by the city of Hoover, but it's on Aldot. property, so is there, have you guys even, is that light, is there even enough right-of-way to accommodate for, because you can't just move a light, you have to go through the ALDOT process, you have to go through the right-of-way, you have to, those types of things, has that, because that's a

Just concerns about your conditional use with Shelby County? is dependent on Aldot and their ability to position that traffic light. And I think it's a real, I mean, am I unfounded by bringing this up with Aldot and the right of way, Mr. Martin?

Mr. President. Yes, Mr. Dean. Mr. Wilder, they brought up there, wishes as part of the covenant. Was it Mr. Barnett that worked up the document that we have before us tonight? Did you take into consideration their communication for the covenant?

Right, but I didn't know if their they knew about the covenant on Thursday if since then if their wishes for the covenant because of the lending whoever their lender is they wanted it in such a way that Mr. Barnett would have featured that in the document that we have before us this evening. And is this the document that we're voting tonight or would we need to substitute?

Well, with the portion of this document where it talks about the covenant and the city's first right of refusal. Yes, sir. Are they happy with that? Because he had mentioned that they had communicated with city attorneys. That's right. I'm assuming it was you.

So is the church... If the council was to vote this, and I don't know if we will, if the council was to vote this document, is the church happy with this, with the de-annexation, with the covenant, the city has right of first refusal, should this property ever go up for sale?

Okay. And it's fully executable to where no third party can interfere with the covenant itself.

That's a pastime. I'm not a president anymore. No, I was talking to that person.

This is not the document that is currently before us. We would have to substitute. Substitute that document. This is not the ordinance. that is currently before us, 262700.

The requirement, or does this replace the document in whole?

So the majority of this document is what we have before us, because we just received this this evening, so that's why I asked. Yes, sir. So the majority of this document is what currently exists.

Okay. Ms. Lovell, and then I'm going to ask us to hold off until we allow the public to speak. Ms. Lovell, do you have one more?

How common, Mr. Waldrop and Mr. Barnett, how common is a first right of refusal for a city municipality for a property like this? Is this a common thing?

At this time, we'll open up comments and questions from the public. Anybody from the public want to comment? If you will come down and state your name, general vicinity where you live, and you'll have four minutes. I will ask that you keep all comments and questions directed to the council.

Thank you, Ms. Breed. Any other comments or questions from the public? Yes, sir.

Mr. Ely, I just want to comment. We've addressed the issue that we don't have a process in place to allow them to open up their school. And our conditional use process, probably the earliest we can hear that, this body was October, I would say. And that speaks to the... kind of to the inefficiency of the process a little bit, but also to the due diligence of the process.

Mr. Thomas, and I'll ask Mr. Waldrop again if there is a possibility of a temporary solution, but I think you hit on the issue with a possible temporary solution if we say give them temporary grace here. Basically what that would be doing is promising a result of allowance, future allowance, then that's something we can't necessarily do.

I'm not going to speak on what Shelby County is doing.

This is going to be a tough vote. I don't think it's going to be unanimous either way. Derek said he's a process guy. Ms. Lovell has concerns over oversight of this property. I look at it as sometimes you have to compromise when compromise is an option or available. It's not always what you want to do, but... You know, we just all look at it different ways. But I think what you're seeing is healthy discussion on the topic. And that's a good thing. We're ferreting out the best, you know, what the solution is going to be. Sometimes it's not the prettiest in the public sight, but it's necessary.

1:18:29 – 1:19:30•DMDerrick Murphy

Ms. President, and I'll say this, Ms. Thomas. I always try to look at too, I've been thinking about this all weekend, you know, this is not our first school that has asked for consideration on certain things and they had to go through a process associated with it. It's a lot of unknowns, I don't know. When I mentioned about Sundays well, you know folks not going to work on Sunday, so I don't know the traffic count on Sundays compared to traffic count of workforce plus school plus just other things are going on, packages being delivered. There's generally an uptick on your weekday versus the we

Any other public comments? Yes, ma'am. Good evening. Good evening.

Thank you, Ms. Baker. Any other comments from the public?

Ms. Baker, I want to address that, kind of dovetail to Ms. Thomas' comments. My notes here say, let's find a way to make it happen. And the response was, It's going to set precedent. But we tried. We genuinely tried to make a way to make it happen.

Any other comments from the public? Any other comments from the council?

Mr. President, I would like to ask the city attorney. In the covenant, it talked about should the property go for sale. What about annexation? What if they chose to annex, say, into another city? It doesn't mention that. Can it?

Right. Can we, can we, if, if we were to do this, would it include annexation?

Before we vote whether to de-annex, do I have a motion to amend the current ordinance?

Mr. President, I would like to say real quick before we go into the procedure itself, the first young lady that came down to speak, she was very eloquent in how she said it. Whoever made the decisions, and I'm not trying to belittle anyone, and please understand what I'm trying to say. Whenever the choice was made to start the school, somebody dropped the ball on finding out what the requirements were gonna be. And that is what has caused us to be where we are today. And y'all have basically dumped that in our lap. Y'all's mistake has dumped this in our lap and have put us in a very serious si

Mr. President, I make a motion that we amend the ordinance to include the restrictive covenant.

Can we include the verbiage for annexation as well as sale of property?

You can add that to it. Mr. Smith, you want to make a motion for that?

I would like to include that as a motion as well. Of course, it will need a second.

I have a motion. Motion and a second. Mr. Waldrick, can you reiterate what this motion and second does?

But I believe someone else would need to second my motion. We have a second. We have a second. Yes, sir.

OK. We have a motion and a second for an amendment. That's what we'll be voting on only at this time. Mr. Dickerson, if you'll call the roll for the amendment. Substitute for the substitute.

Aye. With six ayes, the ordinance is amended. Now if I'll have a motion for ordinance number 262709 as amended.

Mr. President, I make a motion to adopt ordinance 262709. 09, as amended.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Any other comments by council? Ms. Dickerson, if you'll call the roll, please.

I'm going to say aye. So with five nays, one aye, the motion fails. That's okay. So we'll move on to resolution number 89-17-26.

President, I make a motion that we adopt resolution number 89-17-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Any comments or questions from council on this issue? Mr. Grimes, did you have something to present to us tonight in addition to what was Thursday night?

Thank you. As Mr. Grimes stated, this is a public hearing, so we will open up that public hearing. Mr. Grimes.

Comments or questions from council? This is a public hearing. Any comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 888926.

Mr. President, I move that we approve resolution number 888926.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Any comments or questions from council? Any from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. Come on down. We'll open that public hearing back up. You'll give us your name, please.

I appreciate your time. Well, thank you. Indian Springs is a beautiful community. You've got a lot to be proud of. I will say this is not a trauma one emergency room. So whether there will be ambulance services, it's not the same as you're going to hear from a true hospital. We have a freestanding emergency room on 280 now, and then also one on 150 next to Sprouts.

So in my case, I've taken my family there when we've, so my son is special needs. If he gets sick, he may need fluids, you know, water. Without having to go to the emergency room where people have severe life and death situations. You have minor issues, even broken bones and so forth. You can take your family there and get an expedited care that you wouldn't have to sit through hours at a hospital. Does that make sense? I do absolutely understand.

I'll have to rely on Mr. Martin to clarify that.

Thank you. Any other comments? Okay, now we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 889026.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 889026.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we will open that up. Any comments or questions from council? Any comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 891826.

President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 891826.

We have a motion and a second. Once again, this is a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Any comments or questions from the council?

Mr. Smith? Mr. President, I believe we need to hear again from... The staff?

If you'd like, I know y'all discussed this Thursday night as well, but if you want to hear from staff again.

Whether or not we need to have that on record tonight.

Is there anyone else from the staff you'd like to hear from?

It's my understanding that the staff has a negative recommendation.

Mr. Martin, would you like to address the... Good evening, Mayor, Council.

Thank you. Any comments or questions? Thank you, Chief. Any comments or questions from the public? If you come down, please. If you'll give us your name and area of town where you live, please.

Thank you, Ms. Autry. Any further comments from the public? If you'll come down, please.

All in favor say aye. I'm sorry, I did not have my microphone on. I'll restate that. We're closing the public hearing. No more comments. So all in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay. The resolution fails. Moving on to resolution 89-19-26.

Mr. President, I make a motion to approve resolution number 891926. Second.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we'll open up a public hearing. Do we have a recommendation, positive or negative, on this issue?

No affidavit was received. And that's part of the process?

Can we hear a positive or negative recommendation on this issue?

Okay, very well. Do I have a motion to remove this for consideration then?

Mr. President, I make a motion that we remove resolution number 89-1826.

Second. I have a motion and a second to remove this item for consideration. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Those opposed, we will not hear this application tonight. Moving on to resolution number 89-2026.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 89-2026.

I have a motion and a second. Once again, this is a public hearing, so we will open this up for that process. Any comments or questions from counsel? Uh, I will say I was not here Thursday night. Um, but I understand this does have a positive recommendation from staff, but this is, this is a grocery store. So this was a little bit different than a standalone store. As I understand it, this is beverages only. Okay. Very good. Any other comments? Mr. President, I'm going to be abstaining from the vote. Very good. Any other comments or questions from council?

Then you cannot make the motion if you're abstaining.

Okay. Do I have another motion? Do I have a second?

I have a motion. Mr. Murphy made the motion. Mr. McClinton made the second.

Okay. Very good. No, I'm great. Yeah. I just want to make sure that Mr., Mr. Schultz understood that he can't abstain and make the motion.

Mr. Schultz's abstaining is noted, so any other comments or questions from council? Any from the public on this issue?

Very good, thank you. All right, no further comments. We will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The resolution passes. We move on to...

Mr. President, one thing I would like to say is it's not necessarily about the products. It's about the staffs doing their due diligence and reporting to the council.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Duly noted. We will take a motion to withdraw two resolutions, resolution number 89-21-26 and 89-22-26, due to them being cut for satisfaction. Do I have a motion for withdrawal?

Mr. President, I make a motion that we withdraw resolutions number 89-21-26 and resolution number 89-22-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. We will no longer consider those resolutions. Next, I'll take a motion for resolution number 89-24-26 and resolution 89-23-26 together.

President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 89-2426 and 89-2326. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Mr. Waldrop.

This is a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Mr. Martin, do you have an update on these properties?

Any comments or questions from counsel? Any comments or questions from the public? Ms. Beavers, come on up.

Mr. Martin, can you speak to the process? And what options there are available to us for repeat offenders?

Very good. What about repeat offenders? What options are there for recurring? You just have to go through it every time, huh?

So, Ms. Beavers, we're kind of limited on state code here. Any other comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to a first reading only. No action will take place tonight for ordinance number 262710. Mr. Waldrop.

Very good. We'll take that up at the next meeting. It comes to the end of our business portion. Any council comments tonight? Yes, Mr. President, I have a couple. You're only limited to one.

Twenty years ago, on the 12th, is when we started an organization called BluffParkAL.org in Bluff Park. It was our first dealing with the city. I wanted to, we held a meeting in September of that year and I remember contacting the then chief if he would be in attendance and he said he will be well represented. But 20 years ago is when we started and we will be celebrating that this week. Good work.

Mr. President, I'd like to add, are you going to say something else, Robin?

Are you going to say something else? I took my one.

Okay. I wanted to add, I wanted to thank our legal team, specifically Mr. Barnett and Mr. Waldrop. I blew your phones up talking about these issues, and I learned a lot through the process, and I just really appreciate you guys for taking the time to walk me through things.

Mr. President, I was not able to go to the Bulls in the Park Saturday night. I was hoping to hear how that went. Mayor, did you ride?

Any other comments from counsel? With that, we're adjourned.