City Council - Regular Meeting

I have had a lot of stuff show up. Everything was going into my junk email. Have you guys noticed that? I haven't. I have like six resident things I was just looking at here. All these big cities and counties. It just started like a week or two ago. It's like there's this, I see something in there right now.

No. So who was the original? You BCC'd who?

Good evening, welcome everyone to tonight's City Council meeting We appreciate those of you who are here attending in the chambers and also those who are attending online We like to begin our meetings each Tuesday night with a prayer followed by the pledge Do we have a volunteer for this evening's prayer? Ms. Christensen, thank you.

Our dearest Heavenly Father, we are so grateful to be gathered together this evening. We thank you for the opportunity we have to... help out the residents of Sandy and to make living in our city a better experience. Heavenly Father, we ask thee that we be able to articulate our thoughts and be able to listen to one another and provide direction to our staff. We are so grateful for all of our blessings and we say these things in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen.

Thank you, Councilwoman Christensen. If we could please stand, we'll all recite the Pledge of Allegiance together. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, everyone. So we will move into our introduction, starting over here with our staff, and then we'll come around the dais.

All right thank you everyone. So we will move into our agenda just for notice for everyone in chambers and online we do take public general citizen comment not before six o'clock. So if you are here or interested in commenting online for general citizen comment that will not happen before six o'clock but we do finish an item of discussion Once we've hit the six o'clock mark when we wrap up that discussion then we will take general citizen. But tonight is a voting item and we will take public comments on our specific voting item as well. So with that I'm going to move into our first item on the

I move to approve the consent calendar. Second.

All right, we have a motion to approve the consent calendar and a second. I believe this is, I can just say, voice vote, right? All in favor?

Any opposed? All right, seeing none, we will move on to item number two. And item number two is a part of our ongoing conversation. We've been gathering a lot of information, getting a lot of questions answered, having robust discussion. And tonight, that discussion continues. We will continue to listen to one another, get questions answered. And then ultimately, once we feel like we've had the discussion and we're ready to move forward, Tonight, the goal is to identify a number. So with that, I'll open it to the council. I don't think we have a formal presentation. I think everything's been p

The item I brought up last week, I wanted to thank for getting the explanation why we shouldn't put and sale or portions of the sale on there. Can we, if we put in the motion tonight, whatever the motion is, and to have bond language for sale put in the voter information packet, would that be okay? Because that's where they recommended it go.

So if we said, and bring back the bond language, or the voter pamphlet to the council to approve in the motion?

It sounds like I'll try to answer any questions You want to go down to standing reports and get time there's hardly anybody in the council here it seems kind of odd maybe people aren't expecting to

Only if council if the only questions council has would be Directed at them then I could see value. Otherwise, I think it's important that we have our conversation and hear where everyone is Comments but not questions

And you're feeling that we need bond counsel and finance advisor here for that? So you're willing to wait until they are here? Yeah. What about, is there anything you would like to discuss or questions that we don't necessarily need bond counsel or a financial advisor here for? Yes, please, Mr. Sousa.

I have a question. I'm not sure. I don't think that this is a bond council question, but I don't know who to direct it to. So whomever looks like they know the answer and would like to, that would be great. In terms of a process, let's hypothetically say that there is a vote to put this on the ballot in some form. The following process for the voter pamphlet What is the process for that? Does that come back to the council? Does the council get to review it? Is it all administrative? How does that pamphlet specifically work? Oh, I was going to say, I don't know.

Does it is it a formal conversation and a vote of the council to approve? Whatever is ultimately going out or what do you envision that team effort to look like?

I don't remember what we did for the fire station.

And part of the reason that I'm asking is because last week, I think, or a previous discussion, and Council Member Nickel has had some things that she wanted to convey to voters in a way that is appropriate for, you know, disseminating should this go on the ballot? And how do we ensure that those things are in the voter pamphlet? Because I think I made it clear that that was important to me should this go on the ballot, that certain information be guaranteed to be shared through that voter pamphlet.

Okay, and so you anticipate from an administrative standpoint that that same argument Process will be followed in this particular case. Should this end up on a ballot?

All right. I think that that's really my only question right now.

Thanks Thank You councilwoman de Souza miss Nicole. I

Thank you. I don't know who this question is for. Maybe for bond counsel. I don't know. But I have some language I'd like to talk through with you. It says financing for the purpose all or a portion of the cost of acquiring the former Crescent Middle School. I would like that to say, I would like to strike a portion and put just all. Because I don't want this to be funded any other way than the bond. It says a portion of this could be – I want this money to go to specifically for what people think they're voting on, which is Crescent. If we say a portion of the cost in acquiring it, it almost

Okay. Thank you. Any other thoughts on that?

Any thoughts on what Ms. Nichols shared? Okay, other oh, yes Mr. Sousa, thank you.

I don't know that I have a thought but it seems like Maybe councilmember Nichols question or concern was resolved with the response or do you still feel it's important and I'll just say that I understand and like the reason and I agree with it because I don't want to say all of it if we don't need to spend all of it, right, so that would be That would be my thought on the other side

I'd like to propose a language change on page 29 of the packet paragraph 4. Whereas the council desires to submit a proposition, I would like that to either say the city or the mayor and council.

So I'll jump in with a question there. I'd love to have you elaborate on that. My understanding is we are the authority that executes bonding. So I don't want to confuse necessarily the public

That's the only paragraph where it specifically says the council. Everywhere else it says the city.

So you're saying perhaps change it to the city to be coherent with everything else saying the city. But we would clarify or perhaps we've done enough of that clarification that it is the city council that has this bonding authority. Okay. I see what you're saying. Other thoughts or questions on that?

I know nitpicking this document, but it's really important to get this right. Which section are you in? I am on page 29 of the packet. The resolution. The fourth paragraph. The council desires. Oh, I'm sorry. I see the city council in the first one, too. So that is not. It pops up a couple times. Yep.

Sorry, I'm also seeing it about, it's the council that holds the public hearing.

Okay, council members, any other questions? We're quiet today. I thought we had lots more questions to go. Okay, well seeing no questions, I would love just to have some deliberation like sharing, not necessarily making a motion unless that's what someone wants to do, but sort of starting the discussion and hearing thoughts because I've heard several of you say, I don't really have questions, but I have thoughts. So anyone want to begin the process of sharing where you are?

I do have one other additional item that I'd like to discuss with the council. Sure. I don't know if this is good or bad. I know we can take the proceeds in tranches. But we're getting a pretty good interest rate right now. Me, my feeling on the market is I think rates are still going to go up. So would it be better to do the whole amount at once versus two tranches or three because we actually have closing costs that we have to pay with those two So it's more expense to the taxpayers to do it incrementally as well.

I think I actually, oh, please, if I could add my thoughts to that. We learned a lot at dinner that I think is maybe what you're going to share as well in terms of some time stamped things that have to occur if we were to borrow it all at once. So I think he's ready to answer that.

But we're accruing interest, right? Can we use the interest, some of that, to pay down the payment? And that would be larger on the larger number, right?

So there is – Is the rebate a portion or all of it?

Great question, and woo! Thank you, thank you. Great responses. Ms. Christensen had a follow-up.

No, I just was thinking about that smart question. I like it. One other aspect to think about is that if we just issue enough to do, if we did put the bond on there and it passed, if we had enough to do closing costs and whatever improvements we needed to get going, then we wouldn't have the money issued. And we wouldn't necessarily issue it until we had a plan that we were comfortable with of what we were going to do. So just a different thought.

And I'll add to that as well because I think I've said this before but I appreciate the flexibility that the series approach offers. I appreciate that tonight is you've been very clear. Thank you for reinforcing always, this is what your discussion is tonight. This is what you're voting on tonight. But I appreciate the visioning for. And what would come before you next would be some recommendations around if the voters say yes to whatever is put on the ballot, here would be our recommendations. And so I think that might be where you would come back and take into account Ms. Nichols' question o

10 years from the time voters approve it or from the first issuance? Approval. Approval. OK, 10 years to issue. The full amount. OK, great clarifying. Thank you. I see Ms. D'Souza.

All right, sorry. These are kind of onesie, twosie questions, I think, as we're talking and deliberating. In terms of repayment of the bond, this particular one that we're, do we already have an idea in mind? And I guess I'm asking, what is the earliest that we can repay the bond?

Okay. So then I have another question and I'm thinking about who knows what the future holds. Okay. And we purchased the property, all, all 17 acres. And at some point down the road, we decide that we want to sell a portion of the land, the proceeds from that sale. I mean, I'm assuming that they have to go back into. the repayment of the bond, is that correct? Because it was used for collateral? Okay. But as long as it's not repaid in full, then we're not in penalty, is that?

What if you determine that the portion that you sell can't be sold for as much as you counted it worth when you issued the bonds, then what?

And what type of valuation would make the determination on where it is or was?

Great questions. Thank you, Mr. Sousa. All right. Anyone else want to share thoughts?

I have a question. Does the resolution include all of the other items that are in the packet? So like the official ballot proposition, that's included in it?

And so. OK. And on page 40 of the packet on the recorder certification does she sign that tonight. Or does it imply that she signs it tonight? Because the minutes aren't adopted from this meeting until the next meeting, and it talks about minutes.

Great question. Thank you. OK, ready to share thoughts? OK. Yeah. Because we can take public comment without a motion. So love that. Let's go ahead and pause our discussion. Good questions. And we will open this up for public comment. This is not general citizen comment. That will happen at or after 6 o'clock. This is public comment on this particular item. This is a voting item, the Crescent View Middle School proposal that we are discussing. So we'll go ahead and open it. If you are interested in making public comment, there's blue cards in the back. You would fill that out. Bring it over he

Well, I saw them stand up. I'm not sure what the order is. But you're at the mic. I guess we'll pass those down.

I'll just go on the order that they're here. Thank you.

All right. My first card is Don Can. Please come on up. Remember, you will have three minutes.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, next we have Paul Godot? Godot? Godot. Godot, there we go. Thank you for correcting me.

That's AKA, my Home Depot buddy. I see him every time I go to Home Depot.

Thank you. All right, we have Marilyn Berry. Sorry, Berger. Thank you. I was trying to decide if that was a G or a Y. Thank you, Berger.

Sorry, I know you're, there you go, perfect. Can you hear me, is that better? Yep.

Thank you. All right before we move to those who are have joined us online anyone else in the chambers make sure you do fill out a blue card and let us know you're interested in public comment. I do not see anyone moving to that so we'll move to online. Mr. Sorensen if you'll give those instructions.

All right. Thank you. Neither do I. So Madam Chair.

Mr. Sorensen did you see the email from Phil Snyder.

Yes. Thank you. So before we close public comment. Thank you Mr. Kaiser. We did have a request. Same three minute limit applies.

Thank you for reading that into the record and for the reminder Mr. Kaiser. So with that we will go ahead and close public comment on this item and bring it back to the council for further discussion. OK, I'm not seeing. I'll go ahead and share my thoughts then. And then again, hoping to hear from everyone. I think what I would like to start with is just reiterating what a deliberative process this has been. And I think we've really leaned in. We've asked a lot of good questions, including questions that I've asked tonight. I think we've surfaced important information. We've engaged the public

Thank you Madam Chair. I'm going to support the 21 million dollar ask that the administration recommends. Again no one has more experience in doing this than Martin and I really trust his judgment and what they've said we can buy the property for and put money into it to make it fully functional. I don't think there's transparency issues about whether it's 21 or 30. I think the council could can always increase property taxes and so it's not unique to this situation. I think we're saying to the residents 21 million this is what we're going to get for it and that's good. I think from a fiscally

Thank you, Mr. DeKaiser. Looking for additional comments. Ms. D'Souza.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to channel a Recent colleague and say I'm struggling with this decision tonight. I really have I feel dissonance I feel some dissonance between where I think this is going and maybe how I really feel based off of all of the information that's been presented to us not just on this particular item but throughout my time on the council and all that I know about the city and our needs and the costs and and and not just the city, but our residents and our businesses. And I think that it's, I'm gonna say this and I don't mean to accuse anybody of doing this, right?

Thank you, Mr. Sousa. Anyone over here want to share thoughts? Who? Yes. Ms. Stroud? Okay.

I think in hearing some of this, so after I hear from the other side over here, I may have some more thoughts to add. And all of us have a very unique perspective to this. And listen to a... We do our best to listen to the entire city, but it's whoever has our ear. So people that we have interacted with the most, people that we've received the emails from, that we've received text messages, that we've been able to connect the most frequently with. So it will be good to hear from everybody to see what those groups are because You know, often we have residents that contact all of us, and then we

I'm going to go ahead and answer the question you asked. So you sort of lumped two separate questions into one. So I want to break them back apart. So in the question that asked exclusively about interest in buying the property, 61% of District 4 expressed support for purchasing the property and 47 percent of that was strongly support. So that was a separate question was buying the property for 61 percent of those who responded who are identifiable as district 4 residents. Then the piece you were discussing was when they were shown the actual price tag and asked to choose one option you're rig

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what's been said. I still think the $21 million is a good spot to be to put on the ballot. I have concerns about the tax increases, especially in District 1. I think that's an extremely valid concern. And if I live next to the park, I would be like, yes, let's do it and be out there campaigning for it, because I wouldn't want whatever the option other than a park was. But the further you move away from the park, the less I think support there is in the rest of District 1. And I was just looking at the master parks plan. There are six gaps in our master parks plan. F

Thank you, Ms. Christensen. Ms. Sharkey.

Thank you, Ms. Sharkey. Ms. Nichols, do you have thoughts?

I want to thank Allison for bringing up the property sales. I love that idea. I love us talking about ideas to fund it. But when we talk about that, and if in the ideal world we do sell property, are we going to allocate one-time funding for something like an improvement in that, right? That's a one-time fund. But if we're looking at it to fund The ongoing maintenance? No? Okay, all right, yeah. That would become a little bit of an issue. But, yeah, I love this idea, and I love how people have said they've analyzed data, and I realize that how we analyze data is different, right? And so I see

All right. Well, we've heard from everyone. And so obviously, we need to move this forward. So I'm going to go ahead and make a motion. And we'll just.

Okay one second if you'll clarify because we really need to move this conversation.

And you shared your recommendations last week.

Thank you. All right. So we need to kind of get something started here. So I'm going to go ahead and make a motion to approve resolution number 26-78C at the, and I know we've been told that you'll be able to take whatever number we land on and get this tuned up. But I'm proposing inserting the number at 30 million with all of the following calculations to follow. Okay.

OK. Thank you. So we have a motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion?

Who first? OK, Ms. D'Souza. Thank you. All right, so it kind of goes back to my very first question, which had to do with the voter pamphlet. And it was really, really important that in our communication to the voters that we are as open and transparent with the material facts as we have them. And the one that is kind of the most important for me is ensuring that people understand that the operations and maintenance will not be included in this bond. And so I just want to make sure that when this comes back, administration, that that is communicated, because I wouldn't be able to support anyth

That's all I have Thank You mr. Sousa comments on from this side Okay Yes, mr. Um, I you know and maybe you know miss Sharkey you can help Help me better understand, you know the 30 million you've brought up. I mean I several times this week, last week, and maybe even the week before with voters. And you're saying, you know what, I want them to see everything, phase two. There could be a, I don't know where. I mean, $13 million is a lot of money. But there could be some other proposal that came up that was more than $13 million. And I don't know how to ask this that's not going bother you, but

I just have a question. When we're talking about tranches, maybe this is Brian or Lynn. Do we have to have the same hearing process for the second tranche?

You're looking at me, but I think you want them to answer, right?

So if we were to say the 21, and it did become $30 million, we would have to go through the process again.

Wait, can I ask a clarifying question? I want to make sure I understand you. Are you saying if we put on the ballot $21 million and it's supported and then we decide later we need more, you're asking would it be another ballot proposition?

Not a ballot proposition. Oh, yeah, it would. Or a vote.

OK, yeah, it would. Or it could end up just being an imposed property tax increase. But I want to make sure I was understanding if your question was, so for me, what I'm thinking about is, if the number's $30 million, we bond for $17 million as the first tranche. So that's what I was trying to differentiate. Are you saying?

Yeah, that's my line of thinking. So another reason. that I think is a great reason for Cindy saying that the cap is 31 is that 30, excuse me, 30. It would have the effect of not having to go back to the people to the bank again and ask them again. So just my thought on what was said about that.

And that of our own right could be its own public process.

So I just want to make sure. Yeah, yeah. When we're talking about what number. Yep. Very helpful. Thank you.

Yes, please, Mr. Sousa. I have one more bond question. This may be for Brian. So. If we bond for this, we put it on the ballot, let's say that it passes, how does that affect our ability to bond for something in the future? Because we have a few bonds outstanding right now. Is this going to impact our future ability to bond for something that may come up along the way that we don't know about right now?

Thank you. Thank you for that question and for that answer. Other comments? Okay. Seeing that we have a motion and a second, we could do a roll call vote, please.

Thank you. OK, so we do not have a motion. And I know I'm stating the obvious, but either we take action or, in essence, we're making a decision that it will not go on the ballot. Voters will not weigh in. And what we've been told is there's other buyers waiting in the wings to purchase this. So I do believe some action is needed.

Go ahead and make a motion with everything except, I mean, just to kind of see where we are at the $21 million. Kind of see where we stand. So with all of that language to it, do I need to pull that up specifically? The 21, yeah. Second. Indicate.

Okay. Just Mr. Sorensen, do you have clarity? Was that clear enough? That motion?

Thank you. Thank you. So we have a motion and a second. Discussion on the motion? Seeing none, we'll take roll call vote, please.

Are we supportive of a recess? OK. Mr. Sorensen, we've had a request for a recess. Let's just make it five, because we always take more than we actually say we're going to take. But let's try to be five minute. Yeah. Five minute recess. Are you wanting to go talk somewhere?

OK. Welcome back. Thank you, everyone, for pausing with us. We do have two council members who are soon to rejoin us, but we do have a quorum. And so we're going to move forward. Here we are. We are back, full seven. So council, bringing it back, do we have a motion? Ms. Christensen.

Okay. I'm going to say something, then I'm going to make a motion. Right? Okay. I feel very strongly that this needs to be voted on by the public. And so with that in mind, and it feels like the only option we have at this point is if we make a motion, I make a motion to move forward with the $30 million on the bond. Okay.

So the motion was resolution 26-78C with 30 million as the number. And I am seconding that motion. I don't know. Am I allowed to second?

Because you voted against. No, I voted for. The second can be.

Yeah, I don't know. But just for clarification that you're Because you were the opposing. Yes. You're bringing it back for reconsideration. Okay. Right.

So that's what we are needing. So then maybe I don't second because she's bringing it back for. So.

Okay. So we have a motion and a second. Discussion on the motion?

Oh, Ms. Stroud. Kind of a question with this. I mean that's – I feel strongly this should be on the ballot as well. You know, we're already at this point. Do we have to have a decision this week? Do we have one more week?

Thank you Mr. Kelly. Any other discussion? Mr. Pace?

Okay. Thank you for that additional statement. Any other discussion? All right. Seeing none, we'll do roll call vote, please.

Thank you. Thank you, council, again, for a very deliberative process. Appreciate all the good questions. Thank you, staff. Over time, I know a lot of hours were spent on this. So thank you, all of you. I do want to move us into our general public comment. Again, we've already taken public comment on the item that we just did. This is our general public comment. And again, I'll start with the cards I have here, the blue cards from people that are in the chamber. If there's anyone else who wishes to speak for public comment, Please fill out the blue card, and then we will move to online. So, Mr

Thank you. And Paul, we have you wanting to speak again. This is our general citizen comment. Please come on up, and you'll have three minutes. Correct. Yeah.

Thank you. I do not see any other blue cards and I'm not seeing anyone in the chambers move to speak. So we'll move to online Mr. Sorensen.

We're just we'll take all of our comment from the public and then we'll address that just if there's see if there's anyone else online Mr. Sorenson I don't see any other hands Neither do I. Thank you. I do think that's an appropriate request. I know, counsel, typically we do not back and forth, but I think I'm hearing from the group in the room as well that maybe it was a little faint. So would you be willing to read that back, Ms. Edwards? Is that the appropriate way to do it? Or do we want to read it?

Tell her it was for 31. 30. 30. I don't know why I have 31 in my mind. 30.

Station 31. That's why. You're thinking station.

and then voted upon six to one. I'm hoping that that helps. Those in the chambers, does that help as well? OK, thank you for speaking up so we know that perhaps there was a little audio issue. OK, so we've now closed general citizen comment. Thank you for those who participated. And I will bring us back to our agenda for our standing reports. I believe that's next. So we'll start with our staff over here, please. Standing reports.

Okay I think that's staff so Ms. Sharkey.

Thank you Thank You miss Christian said nothing All right, I've got a couple here. Speaking of the balloon festival, I just want to say my grandson Ollie turned two, and he absolutely loves hot air balloons. So Pops and Cece, that's grandma and grandpa name, were able to send images of balloons, hot air balloons, floating over our house to ollie and say sandy city says happy birthday ollie and he was over the moon but he kept like of course they're in north carolina so so my son and daughter-in-law were like he kept he kept wanting to it to hit play so he could because he just watches endless

Also on my social media, if anyone... Wants to get the code there.

Oh, perfect. Perfect. So those who are following Councilman Christensen has been made available there. Thank you. And that's all I had. Mr. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Start with the balloon festival. So the Youth Council was there with Miss Edwards Friday morning. Unfortunately, they only had a couple of balloons launched before that wind picked up. It's it can be. Perfect and 200 feet in the air. It's just going like crazy. So You know last year we launched on both days But today they had just a couple on Friday and then Saturday morning all of them went up that wanted to You know Youth Council was there on both days helping out with Stars and Stripes and then also with Monty You know, that's the big sheep balloon You know, it's a it's great, you know, I g

So that's all. Thank you, Madam Chair. CHRISTIE WOODARD- Mr. Mecham.

Yes please come up provide the same recommendation. Keep as focused and concise as you can. Thank you. We've had a long

We want pictures, too. Thank you. So good to meet you. Is that all, Mr. Mecham? Mr. Pace? No? No? You know, we're spreading the wealth here. Do we have, help me remember, do we? Yes, we do. Okay. Parks and Recreation, or I think it's specifically update on. The Sandy Recreation Center.

Council, any questions? Thank you for this update. It's exciting. Okay. I think that is our final standing report. So we'll take a motion, anyone?

Second. All right. We have a motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. All right. Thank you, everyone. Have a good evening. We appreciate you being here.