Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Move the page up. Thanks, Dan. There you go.

First, to confirm for the public's benefit, these three distinct items are all tied together. They're intertwined in the sense that if one fails, they all kind of fail. Is that a correct statement? That's correct.

And just David and I had this brief conversation before the meeting, but David, just for the benefit of the public, obviously the variance petition and the conditional use permits are recommendations to council. The site development plan is does have a unique council tie-in component because there's an off-street parking arrangement. But hypothetically, if the site development plan were to be voted down today, I'm just speaking in hypothetical, the way it would procedurally move would be they would appeal it to – they could appeal it to council as the Zoning Board of Appeals. Is that the right

Okay. I just want to make sure I had that right. Dan, you mentioned alternate ways of addressing parking requirements and that being something to consider in the code. My question to you is, is that a mandate or is that an option? In other words, do we have the discretion to utilize or not utilize alternative ways or is that not up to our discretion?

That's helpful. And I guess the only other thing I wanted to mention, and I'm sure a lot of residents feel this, there were obviously some delays in getting all this up, which is frustrating. And I don't want to get into an issue of who did what where. I will say this. For my own benefit, I actually added up the total number of pages. We're at almost 500 for all three of these things. It's a beast. On the plus side, 83% of those pages are things that have been posted since March in some form. In other words, they haven't changed. Only 17% of the page count is new. The majority of those were up

Okay. I was going to ask about that, so thank you. The one thing I just want to make sure of, it was a little frustrating. The traffic information study, the applicant did submit a revised memo, right? That's correct. It just didn't get captured, although I did see you put it in your staff report. That's correct. Okay. And the revision is relatively un-material. I mean, in case this comes up, and I don't know how much we're going to get into a substantive debate on this. Like I was, my head was saying if this is, because we had a conversation late last week that, you know, we don't know when t

That's what I figured. Okay. I think that's all I have for you. I just wanted to mention that. That's all I have for you, Dan. A lot for the applicant.

Do you have questions for Dan and staff? Yeah, I do.

Do you guys feel like proceeding? Yay, nay? Okay.

Just a few thoughts. We're in part here because of my fault. I motion to reconsider this after the April and May meeting. And I think we did the right thing as a board in reconsidering this because of the information that came to light between the April meeting and the May meeting about some of the parking and some of the advertisement issues with one of the vessels in particular. This is now, by my count, and I could be off, the fourth meeting, I think, in which this has been an item of discussion. I'm struggling to see what kicking it back would give in terms of the marginal value of new inf

All right. Well, as Brad said, it's my ballgame, right? I think we have a lot of information here. I think I would argue that Hayden's point was 83% of the stuff was the same. I would suggest that there's possibly a higher number than that. We've had conversations about cruise ships at the last meetings. As Brad said, there are a lot of smart people on the island. There are a lot of smart people in the room. And I think we have the benefit of their involvement here, via email, at the council level. There are a lot of smart people on this board, without sounding like we're bragging. But I mean,

But they're going to appreciate the time that we put into this. I know Hayden said he got through it. I'm sure Brad got through it. I know I got through it. And 8 o'clock Saturday night, I was exercising, and I got an email from staff. 8 o'clock on a Saturday night. Collier County wouldn't do that. Kudos to staff, right? 8 o'clock Saturday night, we get a packet with a lot of information. I'm reviewing it Sunday morning. I assume other people on the board were reviewing it Sunday morning. I was sending emails. I was getting responses. I believe that the majority of reasonable and involved citi

And there's a room full of citizens and I don't hear what they have to say.

Well, and I think respectfully, I think if citizens come up and just say we need more time, I don't know how to resolve that. Again, you know, We have an elected body of council. Council has appointed us to do heavy lifting and make decisions to benefit them and benefit the city. And I think that we're 100% capable of doing that today. So I would suggest we move forward.

I did have one minor question for staff that I forgot to ask Dan. Dan, am I correct in saying in the prior parking matrix, if you didn't count the transient slips that I know staff was iffy about, they would have had a surplus. But now if we don't count them, they do not have a surplus.

so does anyone else have questions for Dan and staff at the moment or should we invite the applicant up good afternoon planning board for the record Zack Lombardo here on behalf of Marco River Marina

Could I chime on that, if you're okay? Yeah, I'll chime in sometime. Okay. My sense is the applicant could suffer damages if the vote doesn't go the way you want it to go. Is that correct? I mean, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not speaking legalese, but...

The conversation might not be impartial. Yes. The vote might not be impartial.

If Brad recuses himself, is he allowed to participate in the hearing or is he simply not able to vote on the matter or matters?

I would say this, and if it comes back to bite me in the ass, then so be it. And I know I'm not supposed to say that, but I said it. So here's the thing. I'm going to assume we're going to have a thoughtful conversation. I'm going to assume that we're going to do our best to be impartial. And if we get to the point where there's a vote that adversely impacts the applicant, they can raise that as an issue. Can they not?

I'm going to go back to my previous statement, urging us to move this along, and I'm going to use the same logic. I'm going to say there are seven thoughtful people up here who have been appointed by council, and I think we can have a thoughtful conversation. I think we can have an impartial conversation. I think we can... I think we can give you a fair shake. That's my assessment. And if you want to chime in, Brad, feel free.

I have done nothing. So do you feel like you can be impartial?

Can I just say one thing, though? The only thing that troubles me about this, Brad, is the strong position you took about the NIM when we've had this issue come up before with far more objections, far more emails and concerns when there were changes. So that's my little itty bitty concern that you are 100% unbiased because you took a strong stance even after counsel gave you the code and his opinion.

Are you finished? Yes. Because my concern still stands because you took such a strong opinion. And we have expressed that this has come up before. And the NIM was months ago. So I just thought it was an unusual request because of the times we've had before when there's been additional information even later than this time. And especially when staff is making recommendations in some part as a result of concerns by community members and the applicant has made adjustments accordingly. So that's just my point. And we'll proceed from here.

The Chair made a decision. I think we should proceed.

Yeah, this doesn't need to be a circus. I mean, if you want to recuse yourself, you can recuse yourself. I've spoken and said I don't believe that you personally need to, but, you know.

Wait a minute. That is not what I said. I said I had a small concern. A small concern. I did not ask. It's a serious accusation. It was a serious opinion of mine. Accusation. And I'm entitled to give my opinion.

I don't appreciate it. Excuse me, everybody. We have an important matter. We have citizens who are here to hear on the matter. So why don't we just do a quick consensus?

And we'll go back to Brad's statement. It's my ballgame, right? And for better or worse, I think Brad can participate. And, you know, let's respectfully, let's move on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Off you go, Zach.

I'm okay if you keep going, but does the board have any questions at this point?

Sure. Thank you, Zach. Very thorough. I do have quite a few. Let's start with talking about your feelings about the mica conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it your statement, and I believe it's my memory, that we've seen that condition or similar conditions phrased in the same way on other staff report recommendations? Absolutely. So your objection is because of MICA's action that they've taken essentially?

I don't think it's in the record because I don't remember seeing it.

Which I guess would be my point, which would be, I understand MICA has made whatever intervention they've made. Again, I don't think anyone on this board has seen it. So it's a little bit difficult for us to make an informed decision on. But my instinct would be, just because they've said something shouldn't justify the alteration of a verbiage that we've used time and time again for site development plan conditions. That would just be where my head's at on this.

My own read would be it doesn't convey that.

Yeah, that's my opinion. Okay, parking. on the second to last page of the parking study we have the rosemarina proposed wet slip usage and passenger counts table um which i appreciate you putting together i guess my question would be how first question would be how did we arrive at those passenger counts for each vessel on that chart

Could I interrupt right there? Yeah. Just because I had something in the same vein. So I spent a handful of hours... searching the old interweb for uh... parking information relative to some of these vessels and i don't need to get into the weeds on it but there are some discrepancies and so to your point where you're gonna bring these all your tenants into compliance this could be a conversation to have before we make a motion but would there be any uh... opposition on the applicant's part if one of the conditions, if a condition was added such that prior to any COs that all of your tenants w

And I don't know if the seal of the restaurant would be the appropriate time. I don't know if...

Yeah, I mean, one of my questions was going to be what is the longest duration?

Thank you. Thank you. So follow-up, Zach. Relatedly, the Hemingway Shuttle, for example, says on their website right now it's 34 passengers is what it is. In the parking, the wet slip table, we have 30. So they would be required to put on their commercial land use certificate 30. And how would you practically enforce that? How do you ensure that the vessels are adhering to those limits?

Would you be willing, I don't know if we can even do this, but even like a sworn affidavit that you've reviewed the marketing material for every advertised vessel each year to ensure consistency with the commercial land use certificates?

Well, this is unique, and we've had unique issues that have been found here, which kind of leads me to the next line of thinking here, which is you've indicated that the All the vessels here are going to have to come to the level that is listed on this sheet. And I'm looking for, is the Princess on this? It's down at the bottom. It's down at the, why am I not seeing it? Oh, it's underneath there. So let's talk about the Princess. The parking that you have would be sufficient for 100 seats, correct? Correct. That you provided. What does the operational data that you have suggest the average sea

So one of the things... if I'm understanding it correctly, is because of the bussing arrangement we're being asked to contemplate, that would enable the parking, or excuse me, the passenger capacity for the Princess to exceed the 100-person limit. So right off the bat, we're being asked to consider an arrangement that would allow the vessel to exceed what would be on their commercial land use certificate. Is that a correct statement?

What would the commercial land use certificate say?

Okay. And we don't know how frequently that happens.

The Key West Express would have a similar issue.

Right. And I guess that was... The reason I bring it up is because of the letter from the operator of the marina that we all received. And my understanding was you were trying to accommodate this through this arrangement, which is through, Dan, if I'm not mistaken, the pathway that you articulated, the sort of the planning board can consider alternative ways to meet the parking requirements.

I'll just say it would have been helpful to have, and it was under my impression you guys had the actual operational data. It would have been helpful to have that today because it was referenced in your April 21st letter. It would have been helpful to know how many instances were over 100. Putting that aside,

Understood. It was earlier mentioned that you gave the example of FWC having a boat stored there, and I think we also received a letter regarding potential other emergency response vessels. Obviously, for the reasons that were articulated, those aren't reflected. Their passenger counts aren't reflected because they're formulaically counted differently. Where are they? Are they in the wet slip non-charter category? They are reflected. We're still seeing the letter.

It would be in the second data table, very first row I'm assuming. If you're looking at that.

That's what I thought. I just wanted to confirm that. Okay, you mentioned something a moment ago about the buses, the cap on the buses being a constraint effectively on the number of those large quantity of over 100 foot vessels converging at once. My question to you is, is there a scenario in which you could have all four vessels, thinking about the two over 100 in Factory Bay, the two over 100 that you're capping in Magnolia, on site at one time?

Who is hiring these buses, the operators of those vessels?

Are we setting up a potential enforcement conundrum where the person who's hiring a bus for their wedding party didn't talk to the person at the American Cruise Line and we have multiple buses converging in excess of the captain?

I want to talk about the Bend site for a few minutes. Obviously I think a lot of – I'll speak for myself and the people I saw comments from and I think you – we all have concerns over the 16-foot possibility of a screening going there that is of that length for if no other reasons than safety reasons, not to mention it would be an eyesore. I am struggling with the fact that the – Practical implication of what screening means is somewhat vague based on our code requirements. And I think your argument, and correct me if I'm wrong, is whether or not it can be distinguished in a meaningful way fro

Well, and that was going to be my follow-up. Do you have any – I know Dan showed his AI rendering of an eight-foot fence with some palms. Do you have any reaction to that?

Well, no screening in practice in 1985. Sure. I understand that and I understand your position is different from staff. Staff is giving us a recommendation. They're giving us a condition which you disagree with and which I understand why you disagree with it and I'm sure many people living on Magnolia Court wouldn't want to see a 16-foot fence of that height. I get it. My follow-up question to you would be simply put this way. And I'm not saying we would grant this, but wouldn't it make practically more sense for you to have come in here with a variance request for the screening requirements t

No, I understand. But I guess I would ask you, Dan, if you were advising an applicant – would you suggest that they come in for a variance? In this instance, if they don't want to put up a 16 foot high fence?

But it is staff's interpretation that this direction, without the second condition that you've attached, which is the 16-foot high fence, is not compatible with the screening requirements.

Thank you. That's a problem, for me anyway.

All right. Could I pause you for one second? Jeff has been patiently waiting. Do you want to chime in, or do you want to keep waiting?

Yeah, actually, I did have – He made a few questions. I've got a couple questions. I'm sure we're going to have more, Zach. But just to hammer down on this fencing to myself, I have – not like the concept of the 16-foot fence since I first saw it. I think it's a horrible eyesore. The four-foot fence, and I took in the pictures, hides the clutter of the racks themselves. And you're right, boats comes in all sizes and shapes. Dan, a question I hadn't ever asked you. As a staff, we've received a lot of letters from the people in the neighborhood, some pretty good comments, and some pretty realist

If you could go to your number five on your conditions for me, because I caught something I hadn't seen before. Which doesn't mean it wasn't there, I just didn't see it. Actually... Or was it a different... It was the other number five. I noticed...

Well, what I caught when I noticed it is, there we go, staging slips, all right, where all the boats coming off the dry dock and everything else go in the staging slips. They're otherwise stored in dry storage or for non-commercial transcendent use. That, to me, means people that are coming from Tampa to Key West have come into the marina for a period of time. That's transplant use? Do you know how many of those at any given time are being used? Is it a big? I think it was a ballpark.

Yeah, that was my next question. You have a limitation. In other words, I can't stay there for six months if you're slick, or can I?

Okay. So the liveaboard question, obviously, you don't have anyone actually – live aboard, you know, living on their boat in a long-term basis. Correct. That's not something that you're... Right, we don't allow liveaboards. Not allowed. Correct. I just, when I saw that, it kind of raised my interest a little bit. Dan, while I got you, I look at that 1985 picture, and I go into the 1990s myself. Rose Marina, Mark Weiland Marina for that, had a lot of repair work A lot of mechanical work going on. All the spilt oil in the parking lot and the bottom paint and everything being done. I believe you

So back to Hayden, but, you know, in your submerged land lease, in one of the several that I have, without liveaboards is a condition in the submerged land lease, and I think some of those were in that area, were they not? The transient slips?

Yeah, I mean, just to put that on the record.

Can we go back to that? Yeah, we're stuck again. Yeah.

All right. My final question for now is – and I appreciate you bearing with me, Zach. I know it's a lot. On the variances, I realize the variances did not change from where we were when we talked about this to now. But in contemplating them and discussing them further and in reviewing the variance section of our code, I realize that all of the variance requests you're asking for would still constitute an improvement over current conditions, and I'm perfectly willing to concede that, and an improvement over historically what's been at the site. My question to you is this. When we're evaluating

Anyone else have questions? Would you like to take a break?

I'm just saying before you go to comment next.

Well, we'll do public comment a little bit. But yeah, we can take a 10-minute recess if it's the pleasure of the board. Come back at 3.20? Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you, everyone. Does anyone else have questions for the applicant?

Zach, I think that we talked about a lot and everything you're doing and there's development going on and improving a land that, as you described, that's not perfect. You know, reading the transcript from the NIM and all the comments from the public, there's concerns about density and intensity. And I think maybe we should talk a little bit more about the perfect storm. Hayden started going down the path with all the parking and everything. The perfect storm is the Princess has a full house. American Cruise Line's in town. The Patriot's got a full house. Key West has got a full house. And ther

They're not always jamming the parking lot. The restaurant, the addition of the restaurant, I think there's concern from the neighborhood because that's going to just bring more, right? Sure. But I think it needs to be explained about the traffic flow and the buses is going to help. And reading that the Princess was also going to agree to bring, to lighten that load up a little bit.

What is peak season for? Maybe the GM can explain. What's expected of the peak season for the neighborhood to know that it's going to be busy for these eight, 10 weeks, three months? What is it? What is it? Can you?

There you go. As it's been for 60 years, probably. All over the island, we have that, right? Thanks, Chair.

Anyone else have questions? I know I keep looking at you. I figured you had questions.

I have a question. So these buses that are following these cruise ships from Tampa, are they coming empty, or are they coming with passengers to embark once these people are disembarking?

Yeah, I did one quick thing, and I don't know if staff or Zach could help me here, but we've talked a lot about 488 in respect to the debarkation vessels. I'm looking at the code, a Munich code right here, Could someone point out the specific section that is dealing with and the language for the sort of alternative way to meet the parking requirements that the debarkation vessels engages upon?

Ah. Gotcha. That's what I figured it was. But on the... So there's two pathways, right? There's the, whether it's a use that's not specifically referenced below or it's such a, it's a use of a unique nature. In this category, or in this instance, it's falling into the second category?

Really? I mean, but the marina use is listed below.

Yeah, Zach, I got a quick question for you. Sorry, bud. You don't want to sit down yet. No, no. And I apologize. This is not part of the actual variance in the SNF. But I think it's something that needs to be brought up. You mentioned the buses. We hear a lot of communications about these buses, people coming in on the ships, and this and that. Tuesday night, I was at a rotary function. And one of the other rotarians brought up the fact that he actually works at the museum on our island. And these buses do bring people down to the museum, which I've been part of the museum. I think that's a pr

I'm going to triage my paperwork if that's okay, so I'm going to skip around a bit. So the most current version of your submerged land lease in your position has language that permits the vessels that are there and that are contemplated to be there. Is that correct or incorrect?

Okay. That'll be recorded at some point. It is recorded? Oh, I couldn't find it. I could only find up through like 2009, so. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

Okay. So just a couple of things just to put on the record. So when I looked at the agenda and I compared a lot of the new stuff, the civil plans, 7-16-26, I mean, that was fairly close except the parking matrix and the big drill down. The landscape plans, other than like a date change, seemed like they were nearly identical. Correct or incorrect?

Yeah. Brad asked the question about the traffic information from Norm. I had some concerns about a bus catching fire in the boat building, and Chris Byrne told me that – That's a new building, so it's fully sprinkled. So I shouldn't concern myself with that. Good question. I'm going to mention this, even though it's probably wasting my breath. project up at the north end of the island that has not been built yet you know they they did something that I didn't love when they said oh yeah we've modified our layout to reflect lower seats yeah I mean you you modified your layout to reflect lower se

Yeah, and I did want to drill down on something else because it had been mentioned. I know I put you on the spot already via email, Dan, but I'm going to ask you and David again. You know, the whole notion of compatibility with the comp plan, right? And in the staff report, you sort of talk about the idea of 16-foot being consistent with the comp plan you have some members of the board suggesting possibly an eight-foot fence so i don't want us to be in a position where we recommend something that is not consistent with the comp plan do you want to speak to that i'd like to speak to that what t

Well, that's what I want to confirm. I just wanted to confirm that if we decided to recommend something other than 16, are we not compatible with the comp plan?

No, it would be a wall. I mean, there's no hurricane-approved 16-foot tall fence. It does not exist. So it would be a mess. Okay. Okay. A few people have touched on this, but I wanted to talk to you and possibly Dan about this. A couple of questions. One, have you thought about hours of operation for the restaurant? Is this breakfast, lunch, dinner? Is it lunch, dinner? Is it dinner five days a week, lunch, dinner two days, seven days a week, brunch on Sundays?

Okay. Another thing that I think people have touched on, and I wonder if you would confirm this or not, I'm not going to go back into the detailed parking matrix, but my sense is from seeing the detailed matrix, how many of those vessels operate during daytime hours only as far as charter fishing, jet skis, things like that? And the reason I ask that question, obviously, is because how many of those people would not be there after 4 o'clock or 5 o'clock? Good question.

The really well-done one with all the funny colors.

I don't know if you want to go line by line.

Right. I mean, does Dolphin Explorer do sunset or do they just do dolphin during the day and all the six shooters and Miss Morgan and all the fishing boats? I mean, they're 730 to 330 out by 4 o'clock.

And you have some of these boats that do do, like the Dreamlander perhaps does sunset charters or no?

Marriott, the Blue Cat, the Red Cat, whatever they were somewhere?

I'm trying to get a sense of... In season, in the evening, what is real world sort of peak

Without being excellent at math at the moment, let's just say you've got five, six shooters, Miss Morgan, time for you, wild thing. I mean, let's say you've got 66 to 72 spots for some of these boats that are daytime only. And you don't have to say that's absolutely correct, but if we're just looking at numbers and guessing, right, if you've got 72 spots that will not be there at night that would be used for restaurant or other uses, that's where I'm going. And is that general sense of your business operations an accurate assessment? I don't know if that question is phrased any better. I don't

Right? So they're not going out in fishing charters at night, are they? They're not going shelling at night, are they? And if there's changes that are going to be contemplated, you have to modify the parking matrix. You have to get new CLUs.

I don't know if I'm asking if they have more available to them. My concern and other people's concern is that you will exceed the parking that you have in the matrix. There are going to be stresses on your property, stresses on the neighborhood. And I'm trying to ask the question, if perhaps some of these uses are not used at night, to some degree, is it less stressful? And I'm not saying it's not going to be stressful by virtue of adding a restaurant. You're talking about adding a restaurant with 200 seats. You're adding a use, you're adding intensity, you're adding parking. But my question i

Well, who eats dinner at 9 o'clock at Marco?

So it's not something that – I'm asking a question for sort of just putting a different perspective out of the – No, I understand that.

Or is it perhaps not as over-parked as – some people might be worried about. I don't go out in season. And I know other people don't.

Well, they are a spec developer in the sense that you said they hadn't identified a partner to operate the restaurant.

Fair enough. So a question. In one of these conditions, we're talking about this language number five, where it's no more than two commercial vessels over 100 feet or over 100 passengers. And so 100 passengers, is that defined by operational data? Is it defined by Coast Guard data? What is that?

And Key West Express is 100. 195. Even if it seats 195.

Okay. uh... your proposed uh... street improvements and i'd hope to get more information on this but i'll rely on you guys and and the staff that's here so because you have a modified bus layout right we didn't have this at the last hearing or prior we have a bus that's going to turn into like the boat barn and drive through and all that by virtue of that I guess I would have two questions. One, does the proposed improvements, do those need to be modified to account for the bus turning into the further south entrance to the marina? That would be one question. And the second question would be,

So you didn't anticipate having frequent enough bus traffic to require any modifications? I mean, that's your position? And I think the position is – And the position of the city was the same?

Okay. Well... Yeah. Yeah. You will be pleased to know that is the last question I have for the moment. So does anyone else on the board have any questions? All right. So I think we have three issues we need to vote on. We have public comment. So I think what I'd like to do, if it's OK with the board, does anyone want to entertain making a motion? We'll make a motion on the first item. We'll have citizen comment on that item. And then we'll do each subsequent item, read them into the record, make a motion, have citizen comment, if that's okay? All right. So does anybody feel like making a motio

We can make a motion on the site development plan. First resolution as read, I would move for approval. Second.

For the restaurant, perhaps. We had talked about that. But that needs to be a consensus of the board, too. I mean, I guess just the motion maker and the secretary. That's right.

So I would adjust my motion as to council's recommendations. And I second.

Thank you Does the motion include? The language for condition number nine as it's written or yes as it's written.

Oh, I thought we were going to consider adding The condition does not create any deed restrictions

I'm okay with council's recommendation. Me too.

So we have a motion and a second. So why don't we do citizen comment on the STP item? So thank you everyone who has waited here to speak so patiently. I will just call your names in order. Dr. Blana.

Thank you. Next speaker is Ms. Fitch, and she's had time ceded to her by Ms. Yawitz. So we'll give you six minutes, and if you babble on a little longer, we'll try to be courteous.

The reconstruction of the street, I believe, is part of the SDP.

And I'm sorry, you've been sworn. We're supposed to ask everyone if they've been sworn, right?

Thank you. Those are the speakers who have signed up to speak on the site development plan. We have one more. Ms. Foster.

Okay. Everybody else who spoke was sworn in, so...

Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to speak on the site development plan? Mr. Martini.

Anyone else? All right. Seeing no one, we'll close public comment for that portion.

Zach, can I ask you some questions based on the public comment? Roadway improvements, it was mentioned previously, I thought you guys were assuming that. Am I incorrect?

By the way, we're putting up signage, let's go forward on... no parking in the swales for towing logistics. Who handles that? Is that at the marina's expense? Is that at the city's expense?

Okay. Can I expand on that? I'm assuming this is like down at Landmark by – swallow no parking be handled the same fashion that's correct where and how far along bald eagle would these no parking signs extend i think i showed that in i apologize was that yesterday it was a long time

I mean, wasn't it the entirety of their property on both sides of Bald Eagle?

And their property goes all the way down to Magnolia?

Zach, it was mentioned about the TIS being based on the last 2012 count. You guys did do some counting, as you mentioned, right? There were actual traffickers.

Is it accurate, not a traffic question, sorry, American Hunter, American Patriot, are those overnight vessels?

They are. Okay. So you could have folks – those spots could be taken up for days?

Okay. It was mentioned about captain and crew. How are the – I'm sure this is dealt with or contemplated in some way, but how is that dealt with?

It was also mentioned – One of the public commenters testified that they have observed currently as many as four buses at a single time on the property. Do you guys have operational data or any information on how many buses may have been on the property at one time? And if it was over three, would – are you then essentially self-committing to constrain that going forward? MR. Yes.

Have we monitored in the past whether or not there's been more than three?

MR. Okay. The only reason I ask is I could see if there has been more than three, and operators have been used to that, the constraint creating issues since we're not reducing the intensity of uses on the site. It's only being increased if you consider the restaurants and some of these others. Last question I have is, I want to go back just for a minute to the construction of the, and if this is the very last thing, the second to last thing on the parking study that Rosmarina proposed wet slip usage in passenger counts. It was testified to earlier that you all arrived at these passenger counts

I'll just close with a comment. This is probably one of the most difficult votes I've taken since I've been up here. And I'll just say there are two competing things in my head that I'm trying to reconcile. One is you have an application that's clearly had a lot of time and consideration put into it by an applicant that has made concessions. And it's on a C-5 property. We have no C-6. where a restaurant and all these other things are uses by right, obviously there are variance in conditional use purposes, but I'm speaking about the site development plan. On the other hand, I'm also internally

No, you can't do that because of weather.

I mean, okay. I'll ask one question. Has there been any consideration to changing the speed limit in this area, lowering the speed limit? Has anyone suggested that? Has anyone said it was necessary? Is it a stupid question?

On the road, yeah. I mean, if we have additional pedestrians crossing the street back and forth...

To use Jason's words, not to beat a dead horse any deader and drag it into the ditch, But that did kind of perk my interest. In regards to that, I don't know if Dan can answer. In regards to this cruise ship overnight thing, in the number of years that you've had these ships at the dock, do you have an honest answer? I mean, honest that you know, not, you know, not to be honest. An answer, how many times this actually has occurred where these ships were loaded with passengers and stayed overnight?

I'm going to tell you where I'm sitting, and I was a little on the fence about this, and the fact that you're talking about the possibility or you're not saying that there is no possibility of overnight cruise ships in the future has me on the side of the fence that you probably don't like. I'm just telling you that. Shh.

I don't know how you reconcile that, but I'm just telling you, I mean, I don't know. Anyone else have any questions for the applicant or staff?

I have a comment. So these overnight passengers and the concern for the residents is the noise. And you say there's a noise limit. Has anybody measured that noise limit from the generators?

And I would go a step further. It's not just the noise. It's the water and sewer requirements. It's the strain on, again, we're having conversations about level of service. And if we have a cruise ship here once a week, twice a week, five times a week, and there's a need for water sewer pump out and things like that, what does all that look like? I feel like that's a little bit different than having some cruise ships here during the day.

Right. And so the cruise ships during the day is one thing in my mind. Overnight cruise ships is something different in my mind. I understand.

The Key West Port is different from us. The Key West Port is set up deeper water. They're set up for the impact environmentally, pumping sewage, fueling, trash removal. You're not set up to do that.

Because that's what I read. I read that there are ports in Florida where they go for that. Marco Allen was not one of them.

Normally around 5 p.m. Do we want to have the motion maker amend the motion to add an additional condition?

I would be most comfortable doing that. And I would be most comfortable seconding that.

I sure don't want to say the because that contemplates a specific vessel. No debarkation only vessel.

Right. I mean, if you think about their business, if they could stay until 9 and leave instead of staying overnight.

If the bus breaks down, I mean, I don't think we need to make it. My motion stands as it's been stated thus far.

Okay. Well, so we have an amended motion. We have an amended second. Anything else from the board? Daisy, would you call the roll, please?

The item is already approved. I'll vote yes.

All right, so that's the site development plan. So we move on. Sherry, would you like to read the next item into the record, please?

Now is the variance right? We're losing them.

As you know, the site development plan is tied to these other two.

And is there anybody in the room that hasn't been sworn in already that might like to speak on the item? If so, you need to stand up and be sworn in. I don't think so, but I figured I'd ask. And I don't see anybody, so we're going to do ex parte again, correct? Or not necessary?

Okay. So why don't we do the same thing again? We'll make a motion. We'll have citizen comment and go from there. So does anyone want to make a motion on this item?

All right. We have a motion and a second. So why don't we take our public speakers first? Ms. Fitch? Did you want to speak on the conditional use as far as screening and buffers? Or did you want to speak on the, I know you're supposed to be up here. I'm getting in trouble. But you want to speak on the items around the restaurant and the right-of-way buffer?

That would be this one. That would be this one.

At the original meeting, I believe, wasn't it?

It was the conditional use we didn't talk about.

Yeah, I mean we shouldn't have back and forth.

Mr. Vilk, did you want to speak on this item as well?

Anybody else in the room who would like to comment on this item?

Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Seeing no one, we'll close public comment. Did you want to?

All right. We have a motion and a second. Anything else from the board? Daisy, would you call the roll, please?

Final item. Chair, do you want to read that in the record, please?

Thank you. All right, so this is the conditional use. We had some discussion about.

So we did have some discussion about this. This was the one where staff initially recommended 16 foot. We've had a conversation about a few different things. Does anybody want to make a motion?

Yeah, I'll make a motion on this to be approved, but I'd want to change that to an eight-foot fence.

Do you want to include any landscaping or anything else?

Well, I would state the same, I think. What was the landscaping?

There is no landscaping, I don't think. There's nothing in our...

It's just the eight-foot fence. Similar to the Anglers Cove site, it's an eight-foot fence. Yeah, there's no landscaping.

Do you want to add? Dan showed the picture with the palm trees, with the eight foot, dressed it up.

They have to have, they can't be planted. Anyway.

Yeah, no, Dan, the picture you showed with the eight foot fence at the beginning of this meeting is what I would want that to be changed to from the 16-foot fence.

That's the original thing I saw. It started the whole discussion. Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to approve it, but changing the 16-foot fence to the 8-foot fence with the palm trees.

I understand but I'd like to be given an opportunity to have the landscape architect show what can go there as opposed to saying well we're making a recommendation to council right so you could always go to council and say we recommended this the majority of council will probably be privy to our discussion in the context and okay there was an AI design that you did that was an AI design correct that's right yeah so a eight foot fence or similar I mean you might want to just say or similar recommend the landscaping be approved so we have a motion we have a second

Shouldn't we just say 8-foot? Or similar seems awfully ambiguous.

Okay. We have a motion. We have a second. Public comment. Mr. Vilke, you had signed up for all three. Would you like to speak again? Please come forward and state your name.

I've been giving people leeway. I mean, people are talking about impact fees and stuff. Yeah.

I did have one other registered speaker, Ms. Scheppelman, but she may have left the building. Anyone else would like to speak on this item? All right. We have a motion. We have a second. Anything else from the board? Daisy? Would you call the roll, please?

All right, so we've heard our items. We have no new business, board communications, anything from the board? If not, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. All right, we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you.