Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I am calling the meeting of the Planning Commission of July 15, 2026 to order. Could we have a roll call, please, Ida?

Thank you. Bruce, would you lead us in the pledge, please?

Are there any additions or corrections to the agenda?

Do we need a vote on that? Do we have to have a motion and approval or can we just accept it?

Thank you. Public communications, I don't see any cards for public communications. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak? Is there anyone online, Ida?

OK, then we will move on to the consent calendar. We have the minutes of the July 1 commission meeting. Are there any corrections or changes? Hearing none, could I have a motion, please?

Wait. Abstain, right? Because I wasn't here. Abstain.

Okay. Disclosure of site visits and ex parte contacts. Brad.

Yes, I had a brief conversation with Mr. Blatz, the attorney who I understand is representing Cretona Institute, which I've spoken with Lucas and Mr. Cardenas about, but brief conversation with Mr. Blatz.

Katrina? I did not go out to Cretona, but I did go to item number three, the Ventura LLC.

And the same with me. Okay, moving on, we will open the appeal of director decision regarding penalties imposed by the community development director for removing a protected oak without permission. Property owner is Cortona Institute of Theosophy. Is there a staff report on this item?

I'll do the same. Let's hear from the applicant then.

Thank you, Mr. Blatts. Does that conclude the... Okay, come on.

Thank you Mr. Mallett. Do you have any questions for the arborist?

In your evaluation or valuation, can you explain how that's done and because in my mind it seems like a hazardous tree would have zero value so looking at attachment B seven of seven is your valuation can you explain how that's done and why it wouldn't be zero if it was hazardous so sometimes that's a great question that we valued the tree kind of

So, but, like, for condition rating for health, you said 40%. You gave it a number, and that was just your discretion.

You could have said 0%. Mm-hmm. Okay, but you thought maybe there's some life in it or? Okay. All right. I'm just trying to clarify how that's done. Thank you.

That seemed to indicate a significant risk Thanks When did the tri-valley tree service do you know when they collected the what they thought the submission which they thought was the permit from your office

to submit for a tree that is in a quite dire or emergency kind of status. It's more just like you try to go to them directly and be like, hey, guys, we've got to really watch out. But there isn't a protocol that you've ever known about to submit for that?

Do you regard it now as a situation that was an emergency?

At what point would you go to this other process to deal with an emergency?

Yeah, so just, I think maybe just to like, I think maybe what the question there was at, what Katrina's question was about in this, so it's not your assessment necessarily that the tree was gonna fall down tomorrow, but it was definitely a tree that was at a, in decline and was based on this context, the electric lines being near homes, that it was more advisable to remove it than to, for it to remain.

Okay. Is there any other person from Crotona that needs to speak? Yes.

Yeah, and I have a few questions if no one else wants to come up.

Could you please give us your name and later? My name is Elena, Elena Doval-Santos. Okay.

Thank you, Elena. I am now going to open the public hearing can you save them for our discussion you have another person okay

Is there anyone else from Crotona that wants to speak? Okay.

I just wanted to speak to that Thank you At this time I'm going to open the public hearing and the first card is from Bill Miley

Thank you. Thank you, Bill. I have a card from Guru Prasad. You're not going to speak, okay, thank you. Is there anyone online who wishes to address this item?

Okay, then I will close the public communications and we will return to the Planning Commission for discussion.

you have some questions brad uh yeah just a few things um and i'm gonna start with just a couple of questions for the staff uh to help me get my head around this a little bit um and i have a lot of experience i've lost several trees and have applied for the emergency policy and so Unfortunately, I know this world a little bit. Question for the city. What is the annual revenue from these kind of penalties look like for the city? How often do we have revenue from these kind of penalties and what are they like?

Okay, and so there's no annual budgeting or appropriation or hey, we're planning on 25 grand a year that we put in the city budget or P&L, 25,000 a year that we set aside because we know we're gonna have 25,000 bucks worth of fees or anything like that.

Okay. Does Crotone have any history of tree violations? Is this the first time?

Yeah, okay. You know, and I think it's pretty clear At least it'd be interesting to hear from maybe the guy who actually cut the thing down, but it does appear that the circumstances are pretty well agreed with everyone on the fact that somebody came in and cut the tree down and kind of jumped the gun a little bit. I guess kind of a follow on question with that. I've dealt with several of the tree vendors in town. There is a wide range of quality in people who cut trees in the city of Ojai. And I'm wondering on our side as the city, if I want to come here and be an arborist or do something lik

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I only ask because I've had very specific experience here with people who are represented. They have arborist licenses. I followed up and checked on those licenses. Yes, you did 10 years ago. You do not have one today. You've done a bunch of work here and solicited work from us and so on and so. and kind of the root of that question is could a person reasonably grab an application and think it was a permit and would there would there be anything that they had familiar familiarity with to say hey that's permit that's a that's an actual application for permit and so I'm jus

And in terms, so I live in the Arbolada and every Saturday at 8 a.m. the chainsaws crank up. And people presumably are cutting on the weekends when they know no one's gonna be around inspecting. And it can be a little bit irritating for sure. And I guess I'm wondering, to me there are signals that violators put off a little bit. They do it, somebody mentioned under the cover of night. That's a signal. Another thing they do is they do it on a weekend or a Sunday afternoon or something like that when nobody's around. Typically a signal of someone violating a process, to me, would not be that the

Katrina. I just have a couple questions. So who pays for the peer review? Is that the consultant or the consultant? Is it the city or the applicant? City pays for it. Okay. So city pays for that. And does the city have a designated consultant arborist? Is Jan the city's arborist designated or is it just somebody you selected?

Can I continue? Okay. So the city doesn't have a designated consultant. And Jan... actually worked for Cretona in the past and has looked at all their trees, but he didn't this time, but he's been involved with Cretona. I just wanted to point that out. That's interesting to me. Does the city have a designated tree committee?

And does the city have a consultant suspension list of people you don't think their reports are any good?

Okay, and there's no list that exists that says this person, we've had trouble with this ISA certified arborist and we don't want him doing reports anymore.

All right. Thank you. That's what I was going to say. That's all I have.

I just have a comment kind of based on what you were saying, Katrina, a little bit. You always have to ask the question, are we giving people the tools they need to catch what we are pitching? So we're pitching a policy that I think everybody agrees with. I don't think there's any opinion otherwise on this. But that catching piece, if I knew a vendor that was city certified or city educated or had the little sticker on it you know that tells me this person has gone through some vetting or education of something as a buyer that would certainly give me a a much higher confidence in their ability

I was just curious what the yeah what this well I was cut a couple of questions I guess one is knowing how important trees are both for safety and for the aesthetic and beauty of Ojai like where where does a I mean because there's a lot of questions I think about the timeline of this now obviously it's a there's not it's a small staff I'm sure there's plenty of applications still coming in, but is there a way that these are prioritized, or how are applications prioritized? Obviously, there's an emergency path, but either way, it might be argued that a tree question where it's being claimed tha

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I felt like there was definitely some language in the report where it didn't feel like something had to happen tomorrow. I guess I was just curious, though, within the context of Ojai.

No, I agree. I mean, I kind of just, I guess I wanted to, just in thinking about this and thinking about what kind of precedent it sets also and how we think about it or how you guys think about it, it's kind of a question of, you know, clearly there was follow-up from the arborists, and I don't know what kind of, you know, intensity Bill was adding when he was following up on his report. But just, yeah, this is the question of whether there's ways of, or whether you guys consider different prioritizations of types of projects, I guess, as they come in.

And then if, before, just one second, before, so, it wasn't until basically kind of I guess let's say there was 30 you had 30 days let's say it was 30 days you looked at the application and at that point you determined oh I think we'd like to get a second opinion because you were just concerned well can you speak to why you requested the second opinion

I just wanted to mention something, and this is ancient history I guess now. There are policy changes in how each director handles tree permits, but back in the day when a hazardous tree permit came in, with a report written by an ISA certified arborist, we would do them over the counter. Because the assumption is if it's hazardous, it's dangerous and we need to act on it now. And if it's an ISA certified written report that says it's hazardous, It's emergency. We did it that day, you know, so That's just been a change where you're doing the 30-day review and having a third party come in That'

Okay. While we are dealing with multiple issues, the response time by the city could and ideally would have been faster. There's the misunderstanding between the arborist and the contractor No fault of Crotona, but it was their problem that they did not communicate appropriately with each other. And we have different views from two respected arborists in town. So what are we going to do? It is my opinion $58,000 feels like a lot of money, just me. But I think that reasonable people here can and should be able to come to an agreement to mitigate this problem and I would want to see all parties

going to help me here well I I agree with you that I think the property owner is still responsible for that removal it was done without a permit and as a planner I know that's very annoying when that happens when you know you know there's a permit in place or in process and people go ahead and do what they're going to do. I know from what you're saying, the property owner didn't know about it, but they're still responsible for that. What I'm recommending is that we have the penalty for the removal without a permit by doubling the standard permit fee. I think that is reasonable because the tree

Requiring additional trees to be planted to offset the loss of this oak.

Well, I think we as a city should promote the planting of trees. We have a mature forest here, but we have no young trees coming in. And partly that's because a lot of people are afraid to plant any trees because they don't want to have to deal with this in the future.

This is a very good point. I mean, I would not plant an oak at this point simply because I wouldn't want the future problem. But we could ask them to plant another kind of tree.

Yeah, we're not encouraging the planting of oaks, which is just crazy. And that's because we're being too punitive at this point, and especially for an applicant who has actually come in with an application and an arborist report. It said it was hazardous. The ordinance says very clearly that when it's hazardous, the permit fee is waived and there's no mitigation. So I'm saying we waive the mitigation requirement because it's a hazardous tree and the ordinance says the tree permit is waived and the mitigation is waived. However, I would say Cretona has a lot of property We should encourage the

I think that there's some flexibility here in the term hazardous. It seems like the two... arborists had different opinions about what that definition is.

Right. And if the arborist, if Mr. Miller, Mallet had considered it, well, I've asked him about this and there is this range of hazard and apparently he did not think that this tree was gonna fall over tomorrow. So I personally would prefer to see a requirement for mitigation purposes, yes?

I think that's kind of maybe unknowingly that's a little bit what Judy was saying also that I think some level of replanting would be desirable. So maybe now that you realize that.

I also heard the applicant open to that. So I think we can come to some. agreement about how to conclude this and whether that should be all of us in this room working it out or whether we have a smaller group work with staff.

Maybe like maybe the recommendation you're looking for is to remove from number one remove provider replacement oak of equivalent size. I mean that would also be a very large investment. And hard to locate. Possible. But maybe just the replanting of at least two trees of the same genus. That seems to be a little more ambiguous as far as, like, what that is. So maybe that would be something you guys, I guess, could figure out afterwards. remove or we could I guess dictate it and then remove the potentially remove the the ISA appraisal value and so kind of cutting out half of one in cutting out

I just want to say, yeah, it's really expensive to have a replacement oak, to your point. And even two trees of the same size to replace that diameter is going to be very expensive. It's going to be a big box. Those are two big box trees. But there is provision in the ordinance to allow for multiple trees, more than two, you can have five trees as long as they are at least two inches in diameter. And those wouldn't be too crazy expensive.

And I would like to change it from being of the same genus because I think that this oak tree thing is getting to be an issue.

Well, if we're requiring a replacement, wouldn't we require the oak?

I think that there's reasons the oak is here, as annoying as our policies might be around them. So I don't know. Well, hang on a minute.

Planting a tree for stability and we have an expert in house here I'm sure who could testify this planting for stability typically happens in younger trees planting a large tree actually nearly guarantees the tree is gonna fall over because the roots are developed and they're not developed in the way that a young tree being planted would develop and So we're a little bit wrong-headed with some of the guidance, but I actually think that, Lucas, you said something really important. I'm paraphrasing, but you said there's really not a clear definition on what's hazardous or not. Now, I look at it,

That's too bad. I was just going to ask for his advice on the size of a tree.

well commissioner stewart's right i mean the the smaller the tree and you know starting from acorns is the best right then saplings then moving up as they but yeah the younger they are the better and you can do multiple saplings you know and they grow pretty quickly um i will just say this given that crotone has been there for over 100 years i've already had this discussion so i

Okay, thank you, Mr. Blatz. Mr. Miller, would you come back up and talk to us about the size of a tree that would be more than a tiny. Yeah, an appropriate, yeah, not so big that it's going to become hazardous in and of itself by transplanting, but big enough to not be just a seed in the ground.

Could you also address the issue of replacing an oak with an oak versus the possibility of a variety of kinds of trees, whether that's a good thing to do or not?

And because we had all elm trees, it just took out the whole town. So I guess that's why I'm prone to wish for a variety of trees, but.

But we wouldn't put them in the exact same location. We'd put them elsewhere on the property, right? Yeah. Just want to make that clear. Don't want it in the same spot.

Thank you. Thank you. Are we getting ready to bring this together and wrap it with a motion?

Okay, so the process would be that we would dictate what we would like in the resolution and then you would bring it back at our next meeting in that format.

Well, that would move things along. we need to address the fee the tree permit fee we need to address what we're going to do about the fine and we need to address what we would want them to do in lieu of that fine the number of trees in 15 What were those 15 gallon boxes?

So we're saying that we are, I mean, with the way this is kind of outlined, we're willing to uphold the elements of the director's decision for the tree permit application fee.

Don't worry so much about the resolution.

You've got to come up because there's an audience online waiting with baited breath for your answer.

Presumably Elena is going to have someone plant that for her. So let's operate on the 250 figure.

Okay, is anyone ready to do a motion on this to... Let's talk about real quick what the motion would look like so that we're precise. My understanding of the...

Yeah, and tune me in here any way that's needed. But my understanding of kind of where we're at is that we are prepared to introduce a motion to direct the parties as it is to go back to the table and come back to us with a new resolution that takes into account the dialogue here, that has some resolution of the fees in some way, whatever that might be. We could either direct some of the specifics of that or leave that to the group to solve. My personal preference would be the group, but that appears, I'm hovering around the motion, but that appears to be where we're at.

I think the staff comes back with the resolution.

We have to direct them to come back with a new resolution, yes.

So my motion would be adopt a resolution to grant the appeal to deny the community development director's decision to require penalties as specified in the conditions of approval for tree permit 2107956 with the condition that the applicant must plant a 15 gallon oak tree. I would say multiple trees and double pay the fee what is a 15 gallon what's the diameter what's the caliper of the trunk roughly an inch well it has to be a minimum of two inches per code

24 inch box okay we could just put this to bed tonight by telling Katrina would you so that's better Katrina would you be willing to add under the supervision of a licensed arborist to those plantings yes okay yeah

So then do I just choose a number? I don't think we're going to choose 30 because that seems like a lot.

Well, I'm just recommending one. No, I'm not. It was a hazardous tree.

I feel like one is a bit of a token because I think.

It is a token, but it will grow into a big tree. Of course. I mean, the bottom line is we have an ISA certified report that says it was hazardous and our code says when you have a hazardous tree, the fees are waived and there's no mitigation. That's what the code says. So the real violation was that they cut the tree down before there was an issued permit.

I think we can come to a medium on this. Would you like to suggest a number or a medium?

Well, I'm a little bit reluctant because, you know, 100 acres, you might have four or five different planting zones that have, you know, different impacts and so on. So, you know, to me, leaving the box open a little bit to say to them, you know, more than one but, you know, not more than a rational number, you know, that gives us the ability to have them also hopefully bring it into a larger landscaping plan. Somebody made the comment of, you know, with 100 acres, you could add a lot. That gives them a minute to thoughtfully contemplate where they might place a number of trees. And so.

And if I heard Elena correctly, they're already making plans for this. So it's probably not a big stretch. Multiple, can we use the word multiple in your motion?

No. No, okay. That doesn't give direction

to them, no, then that multiple would be then something that staff would have to work out with Cratona. I was trying to avoid having staff figure this out.

Okay, if we're trying to avoid that. Let's give a number. Let's give a box size. Let's give a number. Let's give a tree genus. Let's...

Does this tree, Mr. Mallard, have to be irrigated with a system?

Okay, so we're not just talking about planting a tree, we're talking about putting in an irrigation addition to whatever they have.

I would like to see that permit fee paid because there was a violation and the staff has spent a lot of time.

Okay Thank you. We have a motion on the floor Could you help us with that motion, please John I

What I want to do is get that original motion specific so that we can amend it The original motion was for one 15 gallon Somebody want to second that motion

Okay, that motion does not have a second, so it fails. We would now entertain another motion.

OK, if no one's going to make a motion, I will. I move that we accept the resolution with changes to accept the doubling of the permit fee. and waiving the fine to be mitigated by two 24 inch gallon 24 gallon box trees of the appropriate oak tree genus to be determined by the arborist, depending on where they put them. I assume you would have recommendations for the specific kind of oak. Does that? I'd second that. Okay. Further discussion?

OK. Motion passes. Thank you, Katrona, for your stewardship of that land. And I hope this has been a satisfactory resolution for all of you. Going on to our agenda, our next discussion item. the design review permit conditional use permit zone change and so on for the 107 Ventura LLC Assume we have a staff report for that Yes, hold on I'm gonna pull up a PowerPoint here No, it's quite comfortable here Okay

How many people do you anticipate working at the spa?

So the parking, you're losing the parking spaces for the meditation garden, right? Yes. But you will retain eight. Yes. Is eight sufficient to cover your employees? Okay, and when local people come to use it on off-peak, where will they park?

Where do you encourage your employees, the hotel employees, to park?

and I never have heard a traffic or parking issue brought to my attention since we've opened our doors so basically the eight parking spaces would be available to the local clients that you would serve yes okay do you have any other questions for him

So the house that's there, is that a caretaker's residence or is that just a separate rental?

You probably want to keep your options open to rent it out separately.

The trash area is going to be replaced by the meditation garden as I look at your plans. Is that accurate?

What fixes have you come up with for the pedestrian movement of your clients between the two buildings?

I looked at it today and I thought your guests are going to come out that door. Yeah.

I'm not sure I understand what you're envisioning.

You know, just a couple of thoughts. I mean, a lot of the, so we're basically, you know, we're taking a village mix use and down zoning a little bit to allow it to be for private use. And I think in general I'm okay with that. And I would say my broad orientation is, is that you guys have created something very special in town that has been what I would call a deposit in the Bank of Ojai credibility. So you've done a good thing, I think. And looking at the local citizenry, a lot of people drive out of town, work Monday through Friday, whatever, they come back on Saturday, no ability to use thi

you know a couple of comments on the walkway piece go ahead I'm just we're gonna have a discussion time among ourselves to give him feedback this is just questions in case we need that those answers for just

Yeah and I'm just you know making a comment about the walkway people will go where their organic eye line is you know and so with the existing entries and exits you have there I think you can do a lot of stuff but when people come up from wherever and they visit town they follow their eye line for sure and there are a lot of people crossing the middle of the road there so.

Okay, did you say your architect was here and ready to discuss also?

Is the fence going only on the west side?

Another interior fence, is that what you said? Yeah, show us.

Can you just walk us through the entry sequence? I think I'm not quite understanding it yet.

I see. Okay. Got it. I thought you'd come in through the lobby.

You might go, would you, would they go through that gated area on the north side between the back of house? No, no. That's, okay.

So you don't really walk through the courtyard that you see right now from?

Why would it be closed off? Why are you promoting that?

There is an outdoor treatment center next to the retail. I when I read through this I was expecting people were coming in through that courtyard into the lobby so I am upside down here Well the site plan is showing all the exit possibilities that was a requirement from staff

Sounds to me like You're going to be having to determine that based on how these people walk across the street from the hotel. If you bring them in through the retail, you're putting them into the middle of the busiest

area right I think that's why they're proposing to bring it from the north side through the gym I mean whatever we think about the interior organization of it by having that be the entrance it's gonna force people up to Matilla walk across street most of the you know parking is on the north side yeah right yeah most of the access to the sidewalk that gets you to the entrance is on the north side so

So that's all it would be nice if the Courtyard could be at least visually Available to the community because it sounds like it will be beautiful your folks doing meditation have a great spa area over on the west side you've got a place to do your outdoor therapy and this whole huge courtyard yeah I know you're gonna make it beautiful and we would like to share that when we walk by maybe a solution other than a fence might be what you're asking for to some degree

I would hate to see a six-foot wood fence there.

The hotel has gorgeous landscaping. I'm sure they're going to do an equally good job.

We don't have anything to respond to is what my point is.

Will you guys be running special events out of this location or is it more meant to be a private environment for guests?

I would like to take your offer of a tour. I toured a year and a half ago when things were still little rough and I've been to the hotel but there's a sign that says you can't go out the back way unless you're a guest so I would like to see what that looks like for your guests who are going to be exiting the hotel and going to the spa and that's kind of where I would be curious

Yeah, on your note there, one of the interesting things is I was asking myself, what are the impact on the other businesses that are in a like for like business with what you guys do? And I actually think there's no connection. I think this is an additional service. We're not putting any of the other places that provide these kind of services out. And so I do think this will be a very popular service. That's part of why I want to maintain it for the community. I have had a lot of people say, hey, I can't go back behind there unless I jump in and stay a night or two or whatever. But I think hav

Do we have any other questions or comments for this team.

I don't for the applicant but I do just have general comments and questions for the staff.

Thank you. Yeah I'll just I'll just reiterate about the I think the fence on North Ventura Street. Yeah, just to make sure that, I mean, maybe it's a fence, but as long as it's very welcoming. I mean, I feel like it's a very modest, you know, touches the changes between what's existing, what's not. It's a simplifying, you know, kind of a stripping down, making it sort of be, you know, kind of blend in with the hotel across the street, you know, but I think... to make it still feel open, whatever that looks like. And it could still be screening, but to feel open.

Thank you. I think it's going to be a big asset. I hope it works out for you.

And did they determine it was significant for any reason?

It's hard to comment as a planning commissioner without all the information. The historic report, the phase one, they said the building was not significant even though we had some very famous people that studied through World University. It was City Hall at one point. There's no significance to that. That's so surprising to me. Huh. Yeah, that just surprises me. So I'm curious to read that report. Is the city doing an initial study on this?

OK. Lucas? That was one of my questions. Are we doing public input? I think there's a hand raised I have more questions but I probably should do that after public input Let's do the public input We have two cards we have Bill Miley

I don't know how you do it Thank You Larry Okay We have a hand raised. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. Say that last sentence again. I couldn't hear you.

Do we have any further questions or comments to?

A question just legally to make sure I have a correct understanding. So right now there is no mechanism in the city to do the quote unquote merge of the lots. Is that a correct understanding? There's nothing codified to do that.

Do you anticipate having that put into code?

I guess my comment would just be we have to be very careful on sequencing to condition this on something that doesn't exist as code in the city. We've just gotta get that right or at least have a perspective on the lot line adjustment or the certificate of merger of some sort or whatever we're gonna do.

And they're both legal and they're both on the books in Ojai. Well, the lot line adjustment, which is appropriate. I mean, you can use it to do the merger. have used it previously under uh... previous legal advice the legal advice now is that we need a voluntary merger but i mean we can so we we would have to codify a new ordinance for a voluntary merger to give to them yes of the idea of using the lot line adjustment that we already have right so the other

I would hope that the next staff report will expand on this subject considerably if we need to make decisions I'm going to need to understand it better yeah I can certainly go into a lot more detail on that currently the the lot line goes right through the middle of the building right correct so that's why we have to do a merger

you're doing any building permits at all on a single building that crosses two properties you need to have a merger so that's why we're doing it so to answer ginger's question yes we're gonna require that I mean we should I should say I mean I'm only one person who's recommending to the City Council but I mean that to me is a no-brainer you have one building crossing a property line You have to have a merger. You can't, because where does that property building permit go if they sell one of the properties?

rectifying old parcel maps and you know you get some benefit from from simplifying through this type of action yeah part of my research on this was looking at the subdivision map act and I'll quickly add I am NOT an attorney but it did seem that there were pieces around that that speak directly to the the convenience of that you're talking about and Katrina it is kind of a common-sense guideline of if you have a a contiguous building across two pieces that, but it looked like there had been a little bit of a change from the state standpoint of them trying to control this subdivision mapping pi

Could I also ask, who is the final authority to give a go-ahead on a crosswalk?

Yeah, and we just need to pay attention because we also have a knock-on fact that I would like to understand a little bit about, and I don't know the full issue, but remember there's been the discussion of the state with the parking there at Westridge on the strip right in front of Westridge that's currently marked as no parking. And I know in one of our meetings in the past, there was some consideration for what would happen there. And I would definitely want to know what's going on with that because now you're talking about in front of Westridge on what's currently red, 30 cars sitting there

I don't know if the crosswalk is necessary if we're going to block off that whole entrance. Well, apparently it's not an entrance. The courtyard.

Just to make sure I understand the merger thing real quickly, you're saying that the voluntary merger is not in the provision in the code right now, but they can use that mechanism Right.

So in a way, so what's complicated here is in the staff report is the contiguous law merger is saying we'd like you to use this thing that's not yet in the code.

The voluntary merger would be nice to have because it's a simpler process.

They demand it, but we can't use it. Yes. Got it. Perfect sense. Yeah, just getting on the same page. Okay.

I just have some clarifying technical things. I actually, I like the project. I think it's great. I've been to El Roblar. I've been to a special event there in the ballroom, and it's fabulous. It's amazing. It's better than I can imagine. i even imagined so i i just love the whole building and how it was done so great job um so it's just some clarifying um things regarding the spa there in this um in the staff report it said that um c1 wasn't an option because um spa wasn't part of the c1 not allowed but it is i just checked it it's allowed under um health and fitness facility But the resident

So VMU would allow other residential options other than a caretaker.

So anyway, that was just a point of clarification. We did get letters from two other people besides Craig Walker, Debbie Sweetak and Leslie Hess. And they had similar comments that they wanted a public benefit analysis of the zone change and the general plan amendment. And they had issues with parking. and one of their comments they both said it is don't give away public land but I just want to clarify that it's not public land it's privately owned and it is designated as public quasi public as a general plan and zoning designation currently so it's not

On public land. So I just wanted to clarify that.

But within that, I guess, right, there may be also, right, it's a designation, which I guess if the city were to,

purchase some other land at some other point in time we consider changing that over to public was a public right so I mean if the city bought that land I mean you could actually the city could put a park there they could good so it's it's really not there's no downside I think to making the zone change and the general plan amendment It allows more flexibility with that zone. It allows more uses. It allows more housing, which is consistent with the general plan. So anyway, that's another point of clarification. I just wanted to say if anybody out there is thinking that the city is giving away p

I know this has been a problem in town before.

I would just make a comment. I agree with you that going from VMU to private doesn't necessarily mean everybody's prohibited.

Well, it's Village Mixed-Use going to... No, it's the other way around.

It's public quasi-public currently. It's current.

But is it currently zoned VMU? No. That's what we'll be going to, yes. My mistake. At any rate, the spirit of my comment is going from all public to private does change it, and I think it warrants being open to hearing people have a viewpoint on that and being able to listen to that. And then the only other... would be to have an understanding, you know, typically in a business like this. Do I have it wrong? Oh, okay.

I was just trying to see what it was. What does it really mean? It's like what is possible in the public versus what's possible in the VMU. We'd have to kind of dive into that to really make sure that it makes sense.

Inside of the business, I would imagine there will be service level agreements of some sort, and that might be an avenue to look at some of those issues. Between the two entities, it's likely they will have what's called a SLEI, which will be a service level agreement. It's likely there will be a connection there, so I wouldn't necessarily say that because they're two entities, they're two different things, really. There will be a way that they will be linked that we could look at. they wanted to sell it at some point in time isn't that when they would create the agreement well if anybody want

I Would like to just make note of the fact that if this were a historic site The outside of the building is not being changed so What's the problem? the historic location the only The only restriction that you have is to not change the outside of the building. You can do anything you want inside. So I guess other than that fence, I don't understand why this is really even a problem.

and i think that's what katrina's saying is like the fence seems like it's the biggest thing impacting the formal expression of the building on the street and how it interacts with you know we don't like the fence well yeah we've i think no i think that we've discussed it and they have been responsive and i think what we also probably know from the el roblar and just from this proposal is that they're yeah they're trying to do the nicest thing they can so likely, in the end, if they put a fence up, they might look at it and be like, yeah, maybe this wasn't the best idea. So I think we're going

I mean, it's complicated, but I think it's the start of, it's just the part of this larger conversation about driving and parking and walking and how we use Ojai now and into the future. So, you know, I think it's an interesting... wanted to have as part of the dialogue. I don't have much else to say. I mean, I think that this is, it's all looking pretty nice. I mean, I think that there's, yeah. It'd be interesting to see it next, on the fifth and maybe have a better sense still of how the kind of entry sequence all works.

Okay, I think we've given you all of our opinions at the moment, and I hope that you're able to use them to your benefit. And with that, we will close the subject and look forward to seeing you back on the 5th.

I'm sure now that you, yes. Bye-bye. Okay future agenda items is next.

Good. And do you have anything else for a director's report?

Okay. Commission member reports, anybody have anything? Who's up for the next meeting that Mac has? Okay. And you're in town, and you're all set to go.

on the agenda so there's probably have to be something substance okay um our liaison uh council member whitman is unable to be here this evening uh contacted me this morning about that so but he'll he'll be here next time um anything else anybody okay with that we will adjourn at 9 22.