City Council Regular - Special Meeting

I'm like, is it okay that I sign your name? Oh, thanks for doing it. I'm going to ask you your permission. That's all good. She's asking for forgiveness. Good.

Can we have a roll call, please? For Eschke? Here. Flourish? Here. Burke? Yes. Eskew? Here.

So I guess I should wait till the end. But I was talking about legacy lands. I mean, that's the open space, right?

Eventually, I think things are going to equal out. Things will balance out. I think you're doing a great job. I think the city's doing a good job.

Chris, how do we account for Lackamas Park or William Clark Park? I mean, those are regional parks, but especially Lackamas is considered a campus park.

A nationwide for places that are our population, correct?

Within our size, we might be more closely related to the average, right?

So can you help me understand programming? Is it the events we have or it refers to something? Like the note below says some of the experience expenses are related to.

Sure. And recreational programming, what What does that mean?

and i suspect within another couple years we will be right at or above this number so i'm very happy with where we're at with volunteers and the direction that we're going uh yeah go ahead you should never tell me i can interrupt in the middle of a presentation um let me go back to that yeah no so all of these graphs are representative of what you put in right that's right and so it could be a little different um depending um also we're not comparing apples to apples right we're not comparing um our similar population to other populations these are across the state is that correct too so acros

Yeah, Chris, thanks for this. It's very interesting, and congratulations on Crown Park. I think that's an example of how we can do a great job with the limited resources that we have. And I'd like to congratulate you on having one quarter of the full-time employees of Other cities. So you must be super efficient. I'm guessing you're using AI. You're saying I'm AI. So as I just listened to you, because I looked at this slide earlier and I said, this is interesting, but it doesn't. how do we raise more money? How do we get more volunteers? How do we get up to the level? But it's good thinking, b

Councilmember Hyatt. Thank you, Mayor. Chris, thanks a lot for the presentation, and I completely agree with Councilmember Elzingray. I think you nailed it on the conclusion in terms of where we're at, and I think this is really helpful. And you've been really consistent, too. If we go back to their, I think, time in April, a lot of asset management. several other presentations evergreen mountain bike there's several things that are all coming together so the strategic plan will be timely especially with like this season coming up and i think you've got realistic timelines the deferred mainten

Thank you, Mayor. Chris, good information. Great. Great to know where we stand, plenty of the numbers, but this last page, the last item, staffing, I think you're very understated. I've been to a lot of meetings where you remind, generally remind people that you, 20% of the admin were in the higher department. I don't think we want to hire professionals like that to be admin. And I think we really need to talk about finding some level of staffing to do that because if he's doing 20% of it, the rest of them are doing the other 80%. And is that what they should be doing? I don't think so. So I'm

Yeah, I agree with everyone. Just want to go back to the asset management. I think it's really key for future decisions and come with priority. It's kind of impossible to me if we don't know where our assets, where we are with, where we have deficit, what's the cost to each program or item we have. So Chris, when is the asset management available?

So part of those data gathering for asset management, maybe we rely on some volunteers. I know part of it gets technical. You need more technical eye on that. But then maybe a group of the students can help. A lot of people were excited to help with Park when we had the Crown Park grand opening. I can bring some army of students for you instead. Yeah.

So the work in progress, is it more like six months ahead of us or a few years ahead of us?

Well, the only question I had was we had some parks that were taken out of service because the play equipment wasn't serviceable. So does that in this type of survey end up as open space or do we count that as a park even though we can't use it? And I think it plays into the deferred maintenance subject.

Thank you. And thank you, Chris. So deferred maintenance is upsetting to me that we keep buying more property. I mean, the city keeps buying more and we can't take care of it. So is it an issue of not deferred maintenance, but when you keep buying more property, we're never going to catch up? So do we own too much property? Do we need to look at what we own and look at what we can maintain?

If I may say one thing, I'm sad to hear that Oaks Park has been closed for seven months. I know that services a lot of our citizens.

It's got to be a day in history today that you bring us

Member Hine. Thank you, Mayor. Kayla, I've got just a question on construction. What do you mean by construction assumed at 16% in 2027? What's that compared to? Is that prior year? Is it 16% of budget? What is that 16%? What's the negative 23%?

Okay. And then 28, it drops down significantly.

Do you know if they've factored North shore sub area that 28 planning and beyond, or is that? And I know, I don't mean to be peppering questions. I know you're new, so. That's okay. Yeah.

I have a question from Council Member Hine. Thank you, Mayor. I have a question on ARPA funds. Yeah. If I'm trying to recall, specific ARPA funds were utilized, I believe, for capital enhancement and not non-recurring expenditures, correct? for this intended purpose of not relying on future funding that we knew was going to go away?

I appreciate you weren't here at that time, but I thought we used it for the library as well as police funding. Yes.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for this good information. I want to be clear though on the examples of utility taxes. We're currently at 2%, but if we go to three, we don't generate, we just generate the difference between those two numbers, right? So- We don't pick up a lot of money by one point or even two points. Right. Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. And thank you, Kayla. I've just been reeling through this whole process of this presentation. So forgive me if I'm all over the board. Let's be clear that these are all projections, right? Yes. And one of the most alarming things I've heard is this can be managed through policy levers. And then the next slide. is increasing utility tax. So when the utility tax was established, it was supposed to go away, and it didn't. And Vancouver's at 29% now. I was afraid of this. We're going to keep creeping up. And as Council Member Szilard said, oh, 1% isn't going to do us anything. Le

I just got excited because I saw utility tax and that makes me excited. So Kayla, I did not mean any disrespect and thank you. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, I had a question about, there was a reference made to transportation benefit district going from 10 to 20, but I think I've been paying 20 on all my vehicles. So what was that reference?

Well, I have several vehicles that I pay for, unfortunately, and I thought they said 20. I'll go back and look at the registrations, but thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. I kill it. The question I don't expect an answer. Now, but when I looked at your presentation, which I found was really comprehensive and insightful, and I also liked the format, I was able to understand it. So thank you. The thing that concerns me the most is that three months ago, it was just not what I understood in a previous presentation.

And at some point, I would like to understand what's changed other than the RFA. Because it's three months ago on a previous presentation, it was not the situation that was for them. And in the end, we just need to know what the facts are so that we understand what the future looks like and are able to make some decisions. So I'll be curious what you think.

Thank you, Kayla. Thanks for stepping in. Thank you, Mayor. And I have, I think I'm gonna point this to Administrator Quinn. I have a lot of questions about this. Partially, Councillor Hines' comment, this is not what we thought even three months ago, not the assumptions that we had. And I have zero Finance Commission meetings, committee meetings on my calendar. So I think rather we have a 45-minute discussion after this. I think rather than me raising all my questions now, can we get a Finance Committee meeting? and get the recurring series on the calendar.

I can appreciate all that. Absolutely. I just think I have four or five detailed questions that people here probably don't want to listen to. So I would be happy to hold them until we can have a finance committee meeting.

Yes. Thank you, Kayla. Great job presenting. It was very clear, easy to understand. So several of my questions were already answered. Thanks to everyone for the good questions. Only one I want to ask now, and I'll wait for later. The depth we are showing, I think it's page number 45 in our package. It's a graphic that talks about expenses trends. So showing all different category for the expenses we have. The debt is the amount, what is included? Is it what we pay annually or is the whole bond? I think it's just the annual payment, right? Is it normal to have this debt or is it a problem to co

Also, the capital seems a capital expenses. Yes, those are getting a smaller and a smaller just don't know.

Yes, it helps for the capital. But on the debt, maybe when we have opportunity, I'd like to learn more. Thank you.

who wants to go next i'm happy to go next go ahead thank you mayor council members thank you mayor um thank you for opening things up maryland so um this was brought to council in 2018 and council decided not to put it to a vote to people um And I don't ever want to say it's wrong to put a two vote to people, but then you look at the cool bond and that was a mistake. I don't think this is the right time. I think people are happy with our form of government. I think it would be a mistake to bring this to folks when they've got other things on their mind and they're happy with their government a

I'm going to be really brief. I have talked to as many people as I possibly can about this. I get two comments. Either they look at me like I have two heads because they have no idea what I'm talking about, or they have a strong opinion. And I have an opinion, but I'm holding that aside until I can talk to people. Em and I have also talked about having a town hall to talk People with whom I've spoken that have an opinion, so far it's unanimously against them. So regardless of my own feelings about it and the excellent work done by the committee, I couldn't support it. It's based on the convers

that but for now I'm going with with what I think the people of Hamas that's how it goes okay thank you thank you get it easier uh council member esky yeah um so we have uh want to say that first when it first came to me I said why same as a lot of other people say why we we were all doing Great, especially with our current mayor or city administrator, we are functioning very well. And to me, why was a big question. And then I put so many hours in learning, reaching out almost to every committee member I talk with one-on-one way to just understand the pros and cons better with a more open-mind

Thank you. And I agree with council member SG on a lot of those things there. One of the things I keep hearing is the mayor is the only person accountable to the voters. Well, every council member is accountable to the voters and a A council manager form of government can be much more nimble in making changes within the community. Just as you say there, if you get a mayor that goes sideways on you, it takes a long time to fix that. One of the other things that I wanted to point out, and I've said this to different council members, in private conversations, but I'm going to go ahead and go publ

Council Member Hine. Thank you, Mayor. I agree that you should go to community and ask. If you go to town halls, I do believe If we have a neutral presenter, then not us. We inherently, no matter how hard we try, we're going to have biases. And I think that the information has to be presented as objective and unbiased manner as possible. It will be at the town halls hearing response, but I think it neutral third points and representative of the city beneficial. Um, This has been the top topic over the last two months, for sure, from all community feedback. And I agree with Councilmember Elzing

There's two hands up. I wasn't sure who was.

Thank you. Thanks for your great input. Just want to say I was part of the interview panel when we were hiring for city administrative. It took over a year. We finally hired someone and he left shortly after. So we are lucky to have Mr. Queen, but it was not easy to find city administrator. Actually, the person, one of them I remember was very well qualified. We lost it to the city that they were, I think Tacoma, that they were hiring for city manager versus city administrative. So I definitely, I don't really, based on that experience, I don't really see it's easy to hire or future city admin

Do you want to go? Oh no, I was, I just, I didn't see her. I saw her raise her hand and I got, that's why, that's why. Yeah.

Instead of like, I don't have people to show up. It will show up.

I have more to say if nobody has other, okay. So my engineer brain always comes with what's the plan, what's the schedule, look at this. I drew some graphic for myself. I think without planning and schedule, we just talk, at least for my brain, I need to know what the plan is. So according to the plan and the schedule, we say, okay, we have townhouse, we have public, we just have to have more structured plan for the public engagement rather than I would say we need to take it more serious. As mentioned, we're all happy with our mayor and administrative. So our look at it as if we want to make

I want to say thank you. I agree with your process. The timelines, I mean, speaking for myself, it seems to make sense. The line might be a little tight. Yeah, just we're there. But we ought to be having, go ahead and have this communication. We should be starting August and maybe a little bit into, we're anticipating vacations and travel and stuff too. But I'm just tossing that out for discussion.

If we don't have a date, it won't happen. I think Marilyn's correct. We probably do them all. Because we usually only get about 10 people.

has to be submitted December 26th. Okay. So then you've got time to get into those. If the council approves it, it'd have to be submitted for ballot.

Is that not clear? No, actually. What I want to ask you is, so here's my concern. Right. I think you're right where there's, hey, it's going to be on the ballot. Okay, that's the lightning rod.

Right, right. My concern is that I wouldn't feel confident in supporting that yes or no until I got more feedback. You know what I mean? It's kind of the, I need to have, I would need to have a hall meetings just to get a better sense over We have a town hall. When we have town halls, I hope we can have it. Not just have to show up. Accessibility. Be able to maximize attendance. Got to get it. Got to get rid of it.

Thank you, Mayor. You know, you guys talk about 10 people coming to your town halls. Just by virtue of what I do, I talk to 30 people a day. So I have a finger on the pulse, in my opinion. I could be wrong, but from what I've learned, people do not want to change the form of government. I am in favor of going forward and saying yay or nay and moving forward. And I think what... Councilmember Burke was saying, well, maybe say we're doing it or not before you go to a town hall, because then people may be more apt to participate. So whether we go or not, let's do it or don't. And I would like to

Thank you. It's important to me to have town halls. We give public a chance to start with us, bring their opinion freely to us. I was hoping actually to have town halls sooner than September in August, maybe second town hall in September. But what I also learned, once we put it in resolution, yes or no, at the town hall, the discussion would be different. We have to just provide facts rather than discussion as a council. So, and I really agree with Council Member Hoyne. We need someone that doesn't have bias. It just brings the good education for the public. And town hall to me, the one I atte

Thank you. What I'm hearing tonight is we should have some town halls. And then I feel like we need to make a decision tonight.

And I really think we need to hear from the people out there.

And a good cross section, not just business owners, not just developers, but residents whose lives are impacted by our government each and every day. So try to get a good cross. cross-section of the folks in the community to see what they are feeling about their form of government. And I concur with several council members in that a lot of people just want to live their lives. They want government to work for them, get the job done, keep the water on, keep the streets paved, keep the fires out. But sometimes we have to engage them to say, here are the different options you have and what would

Just want to recap. Sounds like majority wants to have town hall. And then there are just want to update my schedule based on what majority thinks we should do. I was going to propose August 17th. Yes or no to resolution assuming we can town hall in August and July.

I just want to make sure we are not leaving without knowing what the majority wants to do.

Thanks for asking that. Yes, ma'am. is to decide even if we should move forward with the resolution based on what our... Are you two in agreement as to consider a resolution?

Thank you, Mayor. I think I've been clear on my position. However, if if the majority of council does want to go through tent halls and whatnot prior to making a decision, why wouldn't we have this on the November ballot where we're going to get a higher turnout and not cost taxpayers more money to have a special election?

It's a matter of timing. So you have to if you want it on the November ballot, you've got to submit it to the elections office by, I believe, the first week in August. And so that doesn't really give us enough time. That'd be what is that three weeks from now? So less than four weeks. So it doesn't give enough time to get the input from the community.

So, Mayor, sometimes the special election is in May and sometimes it's in April. And it just depends on when the elections folks set that. So if that election is in conflict with filing week, then you would run into an issue there that people may not know what's going on the ballot before they file. And I want to thank you for clarifying that that could have been November of 28. I was thinking that the reference was November of 27. But I would encourage you to check with elections because sometimes... Filing week doesn't line up with the May election.

We're going to have town hall either in August or September, right? We're going to work with city clerk. Is that right? Okay. And then I was just going to say town hall is one kind of public engagement, but to me is not. We need to look at that. And we need another maybe session to decide what to do, what other things. I want to ask council if they want to talk about whether we should move with resolution or not in August 17th or September 7th.

Another workshop based on the input we've heard. Talking about yes, we move forward with resolution or no. Either end of August or we have September. September 7 or 21.

I'm ready to do it now, so I'll take it.

Thank you. I was just going to say, I would prefer a minimum of two and possibly three dates. We can't... rely on one date for the input. Maybe people would miss that date.

The date I was proposing was when we should talk again as a group about it, but we want to make sure we have enough time for town hall to work.

Yes, August 17, maybe versus September 21.

I mean, to discuss the resolution or have town halls.

Discuss resolution for saying yes or no to move forward with the resolution.

Yeah, I think we need to know sooner. If we're going to have a town hall in August and September, I think we need to definitively standing over potential dates and venues by next meeting. Because next meeting is already, this is the sixth, it's going to be the 24th, right? 20th. 20th. So I think by the 20th, we need to know what are the dates in August, what's the date in August and location, what it is in September. We're going to get behind. Does that work?

No, I'm, yeah, yeah, you follow my stuff here.

Yes, August 17. That is just for a town hall. No, August 17 is for the council to say yes or no to move forward resolution.

So yeah, it's August 17. Otherwise, September 1.

We won't have time to do town vote here, right?

August 17th has been. I don't think we can get town halls on it not to be for that time.

So why can't we do the first meeting in September? What I've heard is August 17th or September 20 something. Is there something going on in the first meeting of September that we can't vote on a resolution then? That should give us enough time to have at least two town halls and get some feedback to see where the voters are, where the residents feel.

September seven is totally fine. I just thought if they're going to be town hall in September, maybe the first week is not enough, but I just want to remind myself and everyone, the school will be in session August 22nd. So we have the last week of August. 24th, sorry. 22nd is Saturday. Instead of August 17, we want to push it to September 7. This is for council to vote yes or no to move forward with resolution based on what we hear from now until then.

Yes, let's do that, and then we can maybe change it if it's needed for September 7th. And that was a placeholder, August 7th.

Thank you. Is there a reason not to vote tonight in our regular meeting so that we have some direction on where our town halls are going?

That way we can discuss that with the public before we decide on .

Thank you. So what I was hearing was let's get the input at the town halls. And now what I'm hearing is, well, maybe we'll do a, a vote to bring the resolution back to make the change. But what if we find out from the town halls people don't want it, as some have suggested, right? So what are we voting on tonight, potentially? Or what could be a motion that could come up tonight? Is it to generate the resolution before we have the town halls to get the input as to whether or not we should do this?

Not that at all. Uh, may I address council member North directly? Yes, please. Council member. No, I cannot, I cannot answer your question. Well, what, but what I, I cannot answer your question because I'm confused as well. I thought we're trying to decide on, on town hall dates. We could just get information and make a decision if we're going to move ahead.

That was the majority of what I was hearing is let's have some town halls and get feedback from people. Right. Um, I guess I look at it this way. Do I want the resolution? Yes, I want this process moving forward because that's my personal opinion based on the feedback I get from folks. But I also believe that we should have a broad amount of input out there. So the message we're sending is, hey, we're going to have a town hall to get what your opinion is, but we already voted to have this resolution put together to put out later in that. So... Let's put the horse in front of the car. Which way

In my experience in the community, town halls were to share information with the community and get additional information, but they were already on courses of action that were decided. We did it with the RFA. We did it with the pool bond. We've done it with other things where we have unbiased input, but we provide information to them. Once the council has decided, they want to send something to the voters. And so that's the councilor Norris' position. Are we getting the cart for the horse?

Are you done? Okay. My vantage point, I would say how did the first RFA vote go and how did the pool bond vote go? They both didn't do well enough because we did not get enough public feedback. Not act upon that. Disagree.

17. If you, if you have a motion tonight.