Village Council - Regular Meeting

I'm going to take a little bit of credit, and I'm going to hand this to you. Can we get to see? Yeah. Okay. This is a whole bunch of them. What is this?

Good afternoon, everybody. It's Tuesday, May 5th. It's exactly 6 p.m., and this is our meeting. that we don't get through the 16 issues. All right, so what we'll do is I've called the meeting to order. I will have the clerk call a roll of the members.

Let's do a pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. Mr. Del Prado is in the audience. Let us know if we screw up or do anything crazy from the other side.

All right, does anybody wanna pull anything on the consent agenda? Hearing none.

I'd like to pull tab 3. Sorry, Mr. All right, tab 3.

Does anybody want to speak? Does anybody else want to pull anything on the consent rejection? Hearing none. I'll ask if anybody wants to speak on anything else on the consent agenda, tabs one or two. We'll open up the public comment for tabs one or two on the consent agenda. Seeing none, we will close the public comment on that, and we will take a motion on tabs one and two. I'll move. Oh, by the way, I want to introduce everybody. I forgot. This is a blast from the past. Council Member Jim McDonald is back after how many years?

I last served, I finished my second term in 2020.

2020, so you were first put on in 2012, and you were honorably discharged in 2012. That is true. Right?

And then I got recruited to come back for six months only, though, folks.

That's okay. It's a limited engagement for six months. It's residency like in Las Vegas. There you go. Welcome back. Good to be here. All right, don't mess it up. I'll coach you through it. There you go. Okay, we have a motion on tabs. We have a second? All right, we motion a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All right, Mr. Fairman, tab three.

OK, so tab 3, we deferred from last meeting. This is the raised crosswalks. And we had a meeting on site and looked at that. I think for right now, and Madam Manager, just to confirm, we are changing the styling and the construction a little bit as far as materials. we're gonna approve the contract and you'll be renegotiating the contract for any change orders which shouldn't make the whole set of crosswalks less expensive. And you're gonna consider two, I know we have a drawing basically that's similar to whether it's gonna be stamped concrete or brick pavers for the ramp portions of it.

Okay. Thank you, that's all I wanted to bring up, Mr. Mayor.

Okay, great. Anybody wanna make any other comments on this item? All right, seeing none, we'll open the public hearing. Does anybody want to speak on this item? We'll close the public hearing. We'll take a motion. Okay, motion and second? All second. Okay, motion and second. All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Number three passes. So we'll go to the agenda and order of business. Does anybody mind if we pull out a special request to take tab 16 and do it after the proclamation presentations? Does anybody hate that idea?

Right, okay. Perfect, we'll do that. Okay, so with that, we have our special presentations. Back after a year's absence, we have the Teacher of the Year and the Rookie Teacher of the Year recognitions, and Councilmember Greenberg is gonna do the honors tonight because you're so involved with the teaching stuff.

We have the names. They're all pronounceable. Thank you.

Yeah, it does. It looks pretty good. I can still screw up some of these, though. I don't know who's here. If you're here, then you can come. Let's read them all. I'll ask you all to come up, and we'll give you your proclamations. If not, we will get them to people otherwise.

If they're not here, ask them to raise their hand.

Raise your hand if you're not here. That's why I did not make it as a teacher or rookie teacher of the year. Starting with Howard Drive Elementary, our teacher of the year is Linda Holcomb. He's here in spirit. Our Rookie Teacher of the Year is Jordan Butler-Putt. All right, excellent, excellent. Welcome here. We'll see who's, are we doing them one at a time? Yes, come on up, come on up. She's coming up already. How do you wanna do this? Do you wanna have everybody? Let me see who else is here. From Palmetto Elementary, Brittany Batten-Jones is not here. She has little kids, I'm sure. Pinecres

Yes. Maria is here. Drone is here. And still. High school.

I know, what a great. Really good seeing you. It's so good to see you here. Is anyone from the school? We'll get the other one. For some?

Okay, our next item of business is a, Priscilla, it's a proclamation, correct? Yes. Okay, we have a proclamation here, and this is for the Miami Villagers, and Alana, you will be receiving the proclamation?

can make you wait. We probably won't get done until midnight, 1 o'clock.

Okay, you can take it now or you can take it behind what's door number three.

You're there? All the villagers are here. Well, I want to read the proclamation first. I want to read the for the Miami villagers on the occasion of its 60th anniversary. So it says here that whereas 2026 marks the 60th anniversary of the villagers, Miami's oldest historic preservation organization, obviously founded in 1966 with a mission to protect, preserve, and promote the rich architectural and cultural heritage of our community. For six decades, they've played a vital role in safeguarding historic landmarks throughout Miami-Dade County, ensuring that future generations may experience and

It's an encore performance. All right, is the applicant for tab 16 in the building? Let's do it. They wanted me to do it now. There's an issue with doing it. Let's do tab 16. Let's see what happens.

Yeah, should we wait on Mayor Greer? She wanted to be done early. Did she say she was coming in person? It sounded like it.

Does someone need to make a presentation?

Is tab 15 here? 16. Well, if it's 15 here, we can do both of those.

You know, I think they're probably anticipating more close to seven. If the mayor walks in the door, we'll do her. Let's go to tab four and just start knocking these babies out. Tab four. These are all second reading.

I'd like to hear from the police chief just real quick, partly on the training and how we're thinking about doing that, whether we're going to offer classes a couple times a year due on demand. And you told me a story before the meeting about somebody getting killed by an unauthorized vehicle, and I think that's an interesting story as well.

I have a question. Yes, sir. Chief, so you catch someone with an e-motorcycle on the street. You intervene, but what does that mean?

Got it. And you can tell the difference, obviously.

But the major difference is the speed, the ultimate speed of it.

It doesn't have a pedal. It's a motorcycle. faster than 20 miles per hour. And if it's faster than 20 miles per hour, it doesn't fit any of our e-bike classifications. And therefore, by default, it's not an approved e-bike.

All right. Anybody from the public want to speak on this? All right. We'll close the public hearing. We'll take a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion and a second. Ms. Clark?

Okay, anybody have any comments on this one?

Seeing none, we'll open the public hearing. Would you like to comment?

You typically give two minutes for public comment. I think you've emailed everybody this.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Is there anybody else that wants to comment on this ordinance?

I just have a couple of questions, and it may be for Mr. Poe or Mr. Bierman or whoever wants to answer them. And first of all, thank you for the presentation. I mean, I think there's interesting issues here.

I mean, first of all, the zones are set by the boundaries. What's defined is the schools. I'm talking about primarily around the Palmetto Middle slash elementary rectangle, for lack of a better word. Who set that? I mean, how was that set? Was that by the village? Was that by the school board? And when and how long has it been? It was their determination that those two, the middle school and the elementary school, are treated as one?

And obviously, the high school, too. They established that, right? OK. And just one other question right now is the concern about ex post facto. I may play a lawyer on TV, but not right here. I mean, is that a concern here? I mean, is this a criminal? violation that we're dealing with or are we dealing when it comes to these I mean I understand the traffic violations most certainly can be but in this context are these criminal violations?

I guess my issue is that it seems that what we're talking about here, the questions that Mr. Arnold is raising, and again, that's a really interesting issue, but are really about the way that the school zones are set up. It's less a question of our cameras and our enforcement and more that. I mean, to me, it comes back to that core issue. And that's not our issue. And I think based on that and based on the legal advice that we've been given, That's why I don't share the concern. I do if it's OK. I mean, Mr. Oro, I would like hearing the response to that. If I can just briefly, I don't want to,

I wouldn't do it, but we'll take them out of order. We'll take them out of order.

If the city had not done the ordinance, we wouldn't be here today.

Thank you. I met with Mr. Arnold, and I think I understand his argument. But I, like you, see it in the sense that the city doesn't do those things. We made a public records request for the city's engineering study for school zones. The city has given them everything we have because we don't do school zones. The schools do that. that every school has complied with the law in setting up a school zone and a speed limit and all those types of things. It's 100% Miami-Dade County's responsibility. We can't put striping on the road without their permission. We can't put a sign on the road without th

I mean, just I think the mayor just said it, but am I correct? Is it correct the attorneys believe that this complies with the law?

I'll move the question. All right, we have a motion. Second. Do we have a second? I'll second. OK, motion is second. Ms. Clark?

I just have a question for the attorney or staff, because there's a bunch of ordinances that are related to the code. And I have one specific comment as it relates to accessory units as a building for temporary guests. Don't know which tab exactly that would be covered under, but I wanna make sure that we don't cover whatever tab that is without having had a chance to talk specifically about that topic. That's 11?

All right, when we get to 11, I'll still, however, make my little comment, because it might just help since we're deferring, it helps us prepare for that when we're ready. That's okay. All right. I'll relate to six then.

Which item is it? 11. Tom, 11. Well, let's defer it. Well, if you want to do that right now, we can do that. Might as well in case somebody's here. Anybody want a motion to defer 11? I'll move.

Well, hold on, because if we defer it, we don't get to talk about it. And I did want to, however, make a comment that serves as input. So we'll at your meeting.

So it doesn't have to be in this venue at the moment, but prior to... WHILE YOU'RE PREPARING FOR SECOND WEEK. OKAY.

I DO HAVE A QUESTION ON SOMETHING IN 11, THOUGH, WHILE WE'RE BEFORE THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO RAISE. AND I SPOKE TO MANAGER BRIEFLY ABOUT THIS, BUT ON PAGE 76 IN THAT TAB, THERE'S A SERIES, THERE'S SOME ADDITIONS IN BLUE RELATING TO BICYCLE RACKS AND OTHER MEANS OF STORAGE THAT IS JUST, THEY'RE SUBSTANTIAL. We didn't discuss them in the workshop on this or anything. And I just, I know the manager had to explain where they sort of come from, but I do think, I want to make sure we.

Okay. All right. I just want to, I want to just flag that I would have some concerns if they were, but if they're not, then my concerns are.

OK, so I'll just flag that if it is in there, I think we're going to have to have some discussion. But if it's not, then we won't.

That's fair. We should have a discussion. Yeah, absolutely. However, it was mentioned in the workshop as a topic, as a request by me, where he specifically talked about the possibility of having bike racks installed. along US 1, shopping malls that today don't have any, et cetera, et cetera. So that topic was raised at the workshop. However, we did not cover it to the extent that it's documented here with this level of detail. So I think that would be new. To your point, might be worth a conversation if we can have this included. Great.

It may be totally fine. I think that's all I just wanted to point out. Let's see if the state lets us.

All right, but we're on tab six, so what do you guys want?

OK. Is this tab 11? To defer tab 11. All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? All right, tab 11 is deferred. Back to tab six. What? No, we haven't. Did we vote on tab six yet? No. We just kind of dropped it and went to 11. All right. Can anybody do a presentation on tab six? Does anybody want to do a presentation on Tab 6?

You can call Mr. Olmstead. We can do it. He's still here. All right. So does anybody on the public want to speak on Tab 6? We'll open the public hearing. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Do we have a motion to approve or not approve Tab 6?

We have a motion to approve. Second. We have a second. Ms. Clark?

Yes. Motion is approved. Tab six is approved. Okay, let's go to tab 16. That is the planning item.

Any questions for the staff? OK. Would the applicant like to present or?

I was going to cross-examine the applicant. Please do. No, I think I'm good. What type of trees are they all talking about? Are they Nate?

Yeah. All right. Is there anybody that would like to speak on this item for or against? We'll open the public hearing. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Ms. Clark, there's nobody online that wants to comment on this, right? No one registered, Mayor. Do we have any debate on the council? Do we have a motion to approve? I'll move. We have a motion. I'll second. We have a motion to second. You call this one, Ms. Clark, or are we?

Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, moving right along. Tab seven.

What's the penalty for failing to remove the garbage receptacles?

They're repeat offenders. So we're going to have some notice to everybody in the village about this.

But why not just have some notice to everybody that this is changing?

We worried at all since we're on that topic about residents that are elderly living by themselves and then rely on the help of a relative to maybe Take the trash out and bring it back in and if that's the case wouldn't this pose a limit or a friend or a neighbor being able to help them with that task? Is that a scenario that we may come against? And if so, are we concerned that we're actually doing something that potentially just generates another source of stress for them?

We thought about it. When we talked about this in the workshop, I think it's a fair concern. And that was part of why I think there was at least some talk of making it even earlier.

which I think we did, but then the pickup we kept as it is.

Right, right. So it could be the theory being, and your point's still good, that taking it down is when it's going to be heavier. It's typically more of an issue for people. And the people have, I mean, it happens in my street. I'm not the elderly one in this relationship, but there are people who help others bring it up. And usually it works. I suspect if somebody has a problem, my sense is that if there is that problem, code enforcement would talk to them and figure something out. You could probably even help find neighbors to do it. My concern is not having anything means people just leave

As long as we have a way around it, like we

But my understanding is this for chronic abusers and that we're going to be customer friendly when it comes to the individual circumstances. Like I can't imagine the person that goes out of town for one day, one incident where they kind of put the trash out early or take it in late is going to get fined.

And so we're gonna we're gonna yeah, we would hear that and I think that council member Myers point I mean to the extent there is a resident who has that sort of issue It's precisely the sort of thing It's good for the village to know so that we can help and neighbors can help and and as typically as happened before so there's We send a notice out letting them this is the rule and then we also include

accommodations all right does anybody want to from the public want to speak on tab 7 so I'd like to appeal to my fellow representatives on two issues page 5 of 16

I'm sorry, this is still that same tab. Where are we, six? Seven. Top seven. Top seven?

And at the bottom, it'll say five and 16. So this is the issue with writing citations or violations for algae and mildew on roofs. Even though I'm a parking lot person, I've been looking at a lot of roofs lately because of this topic. There are so many brown tile roofs. black metal roofs, different color roofs. I don't know why Pinecrest needs to weigh in on whether somebody's roof is the right color or mildewed or not mildewed, unless, of course, it's having a deuterious effect about the house. Maybe mildew and stuff is running down the walls and the whole property is a mess. But there are a

I happen to agree with you. I'm being told that it's a chronic problem, right? It's one of the things we get complaints about a lot.

See, I share your concern, but the fact that it's in and it seems to be working

I just don't know if it's working. And nothing about our code compliance people. They handle whatever the issue is brilliantly. We're very fortunate for that. I think we all received a list and some pictures. Since 2021, there's roughly 330 violations that involve mildewed roofs. 70 of those involve other parts of their structures and their property. Those I understand, but when it's just the roof, I think it gets a little bit arbitrary that it has to be a neighbor complaining or a code officer sees it. If you look around, there are hundreds and hundreds of mildewed roofs. many on spectacular

Mr. McDonald? Yeah, initially I thought the same when I'm reading it, and then I hear Esther say it's been in the code for as long as, probably for as long as Pinecrest has been a village, and you're not encountering pushback, and what I think I heard you say was A mildew roof sometimes indicates other things on the property, sort of like a warning sign. But you see that it might lead to other violations. But I'm hearing you say you've never had any pushback. And when you go to say to somebody, hey, you've got a mildew roof or a mildew fence, what's normally the response you get?

I guess what I'm hearing is if it's not broken, it's been around for 30 years, we don't need to fix it now. Or if it needs to be fixed, we ought to take more time to get more input. I mean, it seems to me like, as I said, I agree with you. When I read it, I said, what are we doing this for? We're not Coral Gables. But if we've been doing it and it's not causing problems and there's no pushback from the residents, then I would say leave it in for now. And if we want to study it more.

So my sense on this is, It's possible that we're not getting pushback from residents because most residents are law-abiding residents. And if we tell them that the roof has mildew and it's against our code, most people will say, OK, give me some time and I'll fix it. They won't push back because I think they want to be compliant with our rules. Maybe you have a case every now and then of someone pushing back, but it's not the norm, right? Most people want to be law-abiding citizens. That doesn't necessarily mean, however, that therefore it's working, right? And I think, I'm with Council Member

I mean, if your side of your house is all mildewed because the mildew's running off the roof, if you clean off the side of your house, Fine, if you're not savvy enough to understand it's coming from the roof and you don't clean that too, well, keep cleaning the side of your house. So I'm not considering it like a secondary violation.

Again, my point, we're just adding algae to this thing that we've been enforcing since the beginning of time. And we get, and I agree with you, but we get complaints about the silliest things. This is never, I swear I've never gotten a complaint about this. How about algae? Or this whole thing. This whole thing about roofs. So I mean, I frankly didn't even know it was in the code. And I thought I would have known it. I mean, I wouldn't put it in the code today. If somebody said, hey, you want to make sure people clean their roofs? I'd be like, no, I think that's kind of overkill. But it's been

Well, the old saying, if it's not broke, you don't have to fix it. And I would say, if we want to take a more Thorough look at this that's fine could be done at a workshop or whatever, but I don't think Removing something that's been in the code for 30 years.

We should be doing it just like we're doing here my limited time on council and Different issues that people bring up and complain about the idea that nobody ever complains about getting a notice to clean the roof and I find that hard to believe. I'm not calling anybody a liar. But to say we get no pushback, that nobody ever gets upset about it? I mean, I got pushback from 71st Avenue a couple of people after their whole drainage debacle started getting violations for mildewed roofs, which kind of just added this because brown roof, brown roof, black roof, mildewed roof, mildewed roof. You've

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying it's one of those things that I rarely get complaints about. Until recently, I can't recall a complaint about it. I didn't even know it was in the code. So that's a good thing. So you must be doing a good job, because I get complaints about a lot of things. All right.

If we don't have three on that, I do have one other issue. I just, you know, if we had three or more people. The last issue, and I'm going to make it one last plea on this one. For all those people that work at home or in Pinecrest day in and day out, page 15 of 16, for all those people that work at home and have to put up with the lawn crews day in and day out, those people that want to Enjoy a quiet, peaceful weekend. I would ask again for your consideration to prohibit commercial lawn maintenance on Saturdays. If you wanted to add the length of time Monday through Friday, I could see where

Mr. Greenberg, you seem to have something.

No, I mean, I guess if there's, I mean, given the amount of time we spend on this, I don't need to belabor it if there's not. I don't know if people want to revisit it. I mean, to me, we spent time on this.

I'm just asking to be reconsidered time.

I mean, again, as we talked about, There's plenty of quiet time. There's Sunday. We are the only, there is no muted, we have already the most restrictive Saturday maintenance rules in the county. including Carl Gables, including everybody. Ours, as it stands now, is the most restrictive. All that we did, based on the concern you raised about early morning, we did push it back an hour. So it's 10 to 3. Frankly, that puts maintenance people working in the heat of the day. But to allow the sleeping in, OK. There's no reason for us to be any further restrictive than we already are. This only refer

And I agree with you. Ken, I was sitting out in my yard the other day, and more leaf blowers and more leaf blowers. It seems constant on the weekends. It's frustrating. But again, I think we did limit this, and then we did run over this cap a lot of times in previous meetings.

And I empathize with you as well, because I obviously hate that noise any time of the week, not just the weekends to begin with. And, you know, I think the problem is the type of equipment that people use makes a lot of noise. Our ordinances have limits on noise. It's hard to enforce, but, I mean, we already have some of that stuff in there. And so, you know, the way I solved for this, because I hated it as well, is I talked to all of my neighbors that were doing their service on Saturdays. except for one that would refuse but at least that helped manage the noise in the weekends maybe yeah I'

I wish we could have an incentive to do the work on weekdays instead of weekends. Maybe that's the way to address it. Maybe that's just the way it goes. Well, I want to run it by you guys, see if we can admire the adherent takers.

Would anybody from the public like to speak on this now? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Do we have a motion? Does anybody want to amend it? Or are we good with it as is? We'll take a motion.

I think we should test to see if we have three votes to eliminate the roof mildew. I'll make a motion with the amended rule that we remove the mildew roof requirement and algae and the other elements that we're looking for when it comes to aesthetics on a roof. Leave everything else as is.

OK, so what do we do? We vote on that. You're voting on the trash amendment, or are we voting on the algae?

Yeah. Well, I would vote, I would agree with the trash, but not agree with the roof. So you would vote no. I vote no. Okay, no.

Three no's on the roof. Okay, that's it. All right, that doesn't work.

All right, Chapter 15, Planning Item at 7, no later than 7.

All right, excellent. The question is that these three lots, the resulting are not smaller than the minimum lot size in that zoning district, is that correct? Okay, so there would be no reason really to deny it, because that's the primary rule. Okay, any other questions for staff? All right, can we hear from the applicant? Don't lie. What do you got?

All right. But they all are above the minimum lot size on this one?

Probably not. We would have stopped you way earlier than today. All right.

I'm here for any questions you got, though. Anybody got questions? They look like three different properties right now on the maps. So are they rearranging them a little bit, or? I guess. That's right.

There's going to be one house on each lot in the future, right?

All right. Any other questions? Okay. Anybody from the public want to speak on this? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Anybody, any discussion, any motions, any amendments? Yes, sir. We got a motion.

Take care. Not my service. Appreciate it. See you later. Bye. Tab 8.

All right. All right, who owns this? Who belongs to this? This is 8th. All right, any discussion from the council? Tab eight. All right, anybody from the public want to speak on tab eight? Second reading, we went over this ad nauseum on the last meeting. Seeing nobody wants to speak on this. Dare I ask if anybody is on the internet that wants to speak on? All right, so with that, we'll close the public hearing. Do we have a motion to approve? We have a motion and a second. Ms. Clerk?

All right. Questions, comments? Second reading. Seeing none, I just have one.

It's really a completely, on 20, let's see, what is this? Page three of six, under definitions. One, I mean, this is really just being a lawyer. Vehicle shall mean the functioning, everything is plural. It should be singular, that's all. Which one? It just says vehicle shall mean functioning automobiles, trucks, buses, trailers. It really should be just vehicle shall mean functioning automobile, truck, bus, trailer. In other words, vehicle, singular, it's all minor.

Well, vehicle shall mean functioning automobile, Okay, so we got that. Anybody from the public want to speak? We'll close the public hearing.

All right. Down the stretch we come. Tab 10.

I just had a question, and maybe this was explained to us already. The Blues, at some point, the 500 and the first one is crossed out and made 250. And at least it appears to me on the second page Yeah, but on the second page, is the 500 supposed to be crossed out? Because it looks like it's, maybe it is, it's just a blue. Yes, it's crossed out. Okay, what is the reason for that?

All right. Anybody from the public want to speak on this? Seeing none. Why are you all here, by the way? They're either in the YAC or they're running for council. That's right. One of the two. One of the two. Maybe some of both. On each or staff. OK.

There are generally people. Everyone cares. Everyone cares about village members. I can tell.

By the blank stares that I'm getting, everybody's enthralled with this meeting. OK. Well, they left. All right. We bored them. Okay. We'll close the public hearing. And does anybody want to dispense with this one? Motion. I'll move. We have a motion. Second. We have a second. We have a clerk.

All right. Let's mix it up a little bit with the reports and recommendations. I see. All right, let's fire it up with the I'd see one see one coming Village Council number one a one.

Mr. Meyer There's three items I'm gonna start with probably the easiest one first which will be the agenda procedure this actually stems from Or not the last meeting, but the meeting prior to last meeting where we sat here until 1 a.m. I remember.

No, that was the one prior. I think the March meeting. Anyway, but it comes from there and the fact that we had a 1,000-page packet that we received on the Thursday prior to the council meeting on Tuesday. and that we needed to review thoroughly. There were a lot of changes, comprehensive development master plan, the new land development regulations, and a pretty hefty agenda of regular items to cover. And then on top of that, I believe in marketing communications to the village. sent the email about the agenda a day before the council meeting. And so that sparked the thought, shouldn't we may

I think it's important for the staff to speak on this. My understanding of this is that we get complaints about government being slow all the time. Maybe not necessarily here, but everywhere you go with the government. A lot of times it's because the things that get to council tend to spend a lot of time in administrative review, right? I mean, the work by staff typically, staff report typically gets done relatively quickly. And then, you know, we get it, what, the Thursday before Tuesday meeting, and then it's got to be to the manager probably days before that. And it's got to, you know, so i

And that may be my fault. I mean, in retrospect, I would have likely, if I had known we were going to go to 1 o'clock in the morning, I would have requested that we take half of that stuff off.

We had to kind of like deliver. But listen, if it was a one-off and it's never been a source of frustration for other fellow members of the council that you believe you have enough. have enough time to review and prepare for council meetings, then it's a one-off. And it doesn't really require a change of how we do things. But if it's not a one-off, then this is your time to voice your frustrations.

I think you raise a really important point. My thought on it, look, I do think the last month, that thing last month that we talked about, it was a one-off. And some of this may be the difference between having been on the council for, what is it, 18 years and a year, a year and a half. So I understand it takes time. I think there are things that, and this may be, something for whoever the next mayor may be to address. But I think, just speaking generally, but I think that how they want to space it out. But I think there's certain things that perhaps Like when there's a quasi-judicial matter,

We did workshop all that stuff, though, right?

I didn't see the final form, I don't get it.

I remember going until 3 in the morning on the Gulliver thing, so that was a marathon. I would just say, from my experience, staff, we have limited staff, and they work very hard. Sometimes, I mean, 1,000 pages, certainly that's a lot of reading. Whether we're going to read each 1,000 page, I'm not sure. Some of that stuff, thick agendas, is stuff that is not necessary to read every, it's not necessary, but I think staff does the best

we should change procedure um because you had one meeting that went and apparently you had a lot of information that was late in coming and whatever if it's a one-off and that's how the council receives the matter then i agree we wouldn't change procedure for that other than just noting let's try to avoid a situation like that because we're all trying to do our very best including ourselves representing

Mr. Mayor, one comment? Yes, sir. So I'm glad this came up, but is there any way to get maybe a basic outline a little bit earlier, just so we know exactly what the subject matter. Because sometimes, if we're working and it's tough to get to come by and meet you or meet somebody else's staff, it would be nice If there's any further advance warning we could get about, these are the items coming up. So if we have questions.

Well, any days earlier just gives us more time to.

You know, the basic, these are the topics that are coming up.

I don't interfere with you. Take all that on your own.

I got six months to go, so I might start pulling stuff.

I get up at 2 and lay there for like four hours just rolling around.

All right. So that's on that then. We'll fix the marketing when we have a director of marketing. And in the meantime, if the PR firm can do maybe just slightly better sending the agenda out a week before so that our residents, unless that out a little bit more in advance of the meeting. All right, so the other topic is the sidewalk design standards. We had recently an opportunity, I think many of us do, to provide an opinion with regards to a very innovative form of sidewalk design on 112th Street and 69th Avenue. road almost, and I think it was designed with good intention. It was designed so

No, it was the intention to plant trees. So those are all the right intentions. The problem is that that is not an ADA-friendly sidewalk. That's not a friendly sidewalk to anyone that wants to ride a bike on a sidewalk or that wants to maybe use a scooter on a sidewalk. And now you have to pay attention to the turns while you're on that sidewalk instead of being able to look out for cars driving in and out of the driveway, etc. So it doesn't really follow a standard. And so that to me is what sparked the thought of bringing this up to the agenda and encouraging us maybe as a village to introdu

I brought the picture that was just up. No, the previous one. Sorry. The reason why I brought that up, yes, there's a sharp curve further up in the picture. But also, this is a new sidewalk. This is a sidewalk on Red Road, on the west side of Red Road. allowing for the driveway to stay as it was. The problem is that, again, that just puts, you know, creates complexity for people that may be riding on a sidewalk because it adds other elements of friction. And if you can show the other one, the last one, sorry, I won't bug you. I think you get the picture. I think we've seen that one before. But

I think what Council Member Meyers, he makes a good point. You know, some of those, Sidewalks we just saw are not compatible with riding a bike. So I think he makes a good point. And I tell you, the one in there I saw with the driveway going through it, with the artificial turf in the middle, that's an accident if a bicycle is coming. And I don't know how much you would sink, but that's a great way of flipping your bike if you're riding. But I think it's a good point, that we should keep it, whether we adopt standards or not, when we design sidewalks, to keep in mind that people will be using

I guess a couple of thoughts. I mean, one is, you know, I actually have to say, before this was an issue, I had emailed Public Works. I liked the one-on-one.

And I was told, you know, the first one they showed. And I liked it even before I knew the reason, which was for trees. Now, granted, I'm biased toward the running or walking, so I get it. I just want to make sure we have some flexibility. Because when we talk about whether it's a shared use path or a sidewalk, whether it's 60 seconds, 60th, 111, 132nd, whatever, one of the biggest concerns and one of the biggest oppositions is, well, there's trees, or there's something that's been there, or there's this quirk in the road. And the only way to get these projects done or I think maybe the best w

It's over time. I'm not advocating for going back and fixing all of these sidewalks that were designed in the 50s.

But moving forward, especially since I saw that one on 112th, I'm like, oops. What function we wanted to perform.

I think our public works director is right in line with this. There's just some, it takes some time. There's a lot of stuff that's been done before. Right. I like what they did with the curves. It should have been stretched out a little bit more. Because actually the picture makes it look pretty cool, but it is a pretty tight slalom course there.

Your house, the vice mayor's house, the vice mayor's mansion has a nice.

Has a serpentine sidewalk running through it. So now I would like us to entertain the idea of going back and fixing some of these really egregious sharp corners. Some of it's because they built a new house. They ripped up the old sidewalk. We told them to move it. So they moved it. And when they got to the property line, they jagged it real quick to go back to the existing. And it could have been worked out If, I don't know, that's our staff looking at the plans, making them do it nicer. But I'd like to go back and fix some of these. When I rode my bike up to the Kendall ribbon cutting,

I mean we have sidewalk funds That's what they're even because we have a new public works guy even for him to see okay Here's how we could change this to make a little smooth still really pretty looking but much more navigable. I think that'd be great Yeah, okay

ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO FINALLY, AND I JUST WANTED US TO THINK ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE PROJECT WHEN IT COMES TO THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT what they imply in terms of impact to our financials as a village. So at the last meeting, we approved, I believe it was somewhere, you know, a budget, the, assigning a contract to one of the, to the contractor for somewhere close to, I think it was seven million, right?

Which is not enough to execute the full scope of the Aleda Maas build up as we saw from, from what was presented to us many, many months back by the design firm. I believe that if we wanted to execute that entire scope, that would be a $13.7 million project. So instead of the 7.5 that we approved. So there's a gap. And the manager said she has a little bit of time to work that out. that it will probably be a topic for our budget conversations to see if we wanted to cover from our next year's budget some of that balance or a portion of that balance. However, the reason why I bring this up is I

I'm not saying that we will. I think it will have to be a consideration. But what we're not discussing is a consideration of rethinking the scope of the project. That if we wanted to keep it at $7.5 million, and delivered at the entire scope, then the scope needs to be adjusted. And that's another scenario that I don't believe we're contemplating. We're going for the scenario that we will do the full vision, as was originally discussed, for $13.7 million.

MR. Mr. McDonald? MR. Yep. Ariel, with all due respect, what you're talking about is not We're not at a budget session. We're not at a workshop. What has happened in the past when I wasn't here, I have no idea. I just know the park is there. We shouldn't be having, you're speculating, you're throwing out numbers we're gonna raise millage rates. We have no idea what the budget's gonna look like until the manager presents us with a proposed budget when we start working on it in August. and at that time we can evaluate elita moss see where we're going where we've been and how we're going forward

I disagree and let me explain why. I'm not advocating for a military decrease. I'm saying that it's a possible implication, a possible implication, not a direct implication.

However, what I'm advocating for is that we're only considering the scenario of the scope as it was presented to us a year ago for the design of the park. Now we know that scope implies a $13.7 million investment for the buildup of the park. And what I'm saying is we're not considering a different scope for the park. We're not considering the scope that fits within our means, within the budget that we have available for us this year, the funds that we've set aside for the park. And that's what I'm advocating for. I'm saying, should we not be considering a different scope or a different design

Mr. Donald? Well, yeah, I thank you. Thank you, Madam Manager, for that. And I thank you, Council Member Meyer, for bringing it up. but this council's already made decisions to move forward, but I totally understand what the manager is saying, and at some point between now and I'm not sure when, first decision's gotta be made, are we going forward with this contractor, and then secondly, during budget workshops, we're gonna have to address the whole thing, whether we're gonna build it out completely or pare it back, depending on revenue, et cetera. I get that, we're not gonna make that decisio

But that doesn't mean that we're stuck to any budget, does it?

But you're not saying that you'll know if we can do that park for that money in June?

So this discussion is probably better had in June.

Hold on. I mean, it's still dependent on the budget discussions because even if the manager comes back and says, yes, we can afford it, at what cost? And what is it that we won't be able to afford for the next four years as a result of this? And we have a long list of things on the strategic plan that the council has identified our priorities for our community. But it could be an implication. I'm not saying with certainty. I'm saying it could be an implication of the fact that we could make this work within our financials as the manager comes back to us in June. And yes, we can afford the park

OK, so what I'm hearing is it's hard to execute this project at a lower cost than 13.7 unless there's a substantial change in scope and design because the manager has done extensive diligence on on this, right? And we've received multiple bids and she's also gone above and beyond and done her own research to see if this could have possibly been anything lower. And maybe it's $1 million less. But other than that, then you're sacrificing scope. So those are the marching orders that she's getting from us. It's like, continue executing this project with the original scope and try to work out how i

By anonymous vote. That's what happens. Yeah, I don't get all this. Right, so we're not in a position to change it yet.

Mr. Fairman, go ahead. If I may put an opinion on this, I look at this, if I'm building a new house or remodeling a house, and I think it's going to cost, it's got everything I want, and it's going to cost x amount of dollars, and then I find it costs x times 2, I'm going to think, OK, what can I build that I can afford? Or how do I get somewhere in between?

Yeah, we could do that too. Try to solve problems. It's probably going to be a combination of all of the above, right? Fair enough. And the fact that you're looking through the plans My intention is to get with you and look through the plan as well and give you my two cents, because I am a representative of the public. And the public wants a lot of things, but they also want us to watch the dollars and cents too. And the things that you might really like in a park, because I love our parks, but our parks are fairly clean, simple, easy to maintain, nice properties.

All designed by who? Right. Right, me. Right, there's nothing. There's not a lot of archways, fancy stuff, all kinds of things. Not a coy pond when you have another pond.

So I'm agreeing with you on that. I think it's, for me, I feel responsible to look to see, okay, we know it's going to cost a lot more. Is there something we can live without that will help bring that down? Can we find a place in the middle B? And I know that's a possibility where we're going and it's all moving parts and I appreciate it.

So just like when you would make any decision on any project the financial implications of a project are a variable that you consider and when the time comes to move forward or not, or whether you need to readjust the code. Now we have a lot more information about this than we had two years ago. So I think it is doing the right, I said, you know what, let's still move forward with what we want because that's what our residents told us they wanted. That was the original vision. It's more expensive, but we learned that delaying is even worse, and so on. So I think it is a conversation at some po

I'm not disagreeing at all. I think I'm just saying with the time we're going to have that discussion, it's going to be soon. Yeah, it's coming up. Yeah.

stay tuned mr mayor while we're on village council i have a couple of announcements if i could make that i don't see any plants here tonight no plants here tonight but wait for june this coming monday 1 30 in the afternoon at st louis catholic church the school is having the freedom 250 mobile museum come in the town And it's after it leaves here, it's going to FIU. What is it? It's the Freedom 250 Mobile Museum, U.S. History Museum that's coming to St. Louis Catholic.

That'll be Monday the 11th. They're inviting any council members to come. There'll be a little ceremony then. Also, this Friday at 430 at the Inspiration Center at the Gardens is the end of year party. So we would love to have council members show up for that and talk with the students. share our wisdom and everything with them, and they can talk to us. It'd be great to have you all show up.

She's going to kill me, but our deputy clerk, Nicole Tobias, on Monday is going to be getting her master's, who has earned already, but we have bestowed upon her her master's in public administration.

But we can't let you leave. Congratulations. That's great.

I was hoping to do that at the gardens. It should take about 10 minutes.

So she's here, so we're going to do it. But can you fill me in in the future?

If we get asked, we kind of know exactly how it's being presented.

So I know Mayor Lerner, Council Member Ross, they're involved in this group, and I just happened to have a couple random conversations with people that had gone to this presentation and were completely wowed by it, and in part a lot because Christina was speaking very frankly, honestly about it, and then they could tell, and then it got me thinking, The public's gonna be hearing more and more about this and we have a group that's out there working on it that the council should be on the same page so we're not misspeaking or misrepresenting anything that's going on. So thank you for being here.

And I think it's something I'm eager to hear more about. In addition to the cost, I'm interested in the impact on, and we've talked about some of this, the impact on neighbors. Because I know there's some concern about that. And also the well-being of the birds. And if not wanting to have birds, it could otherwise be free, be confined. And I know this is all stuff that's looked into. Those are all just topics I want to explore with you and with the folks pursuing this.

So I look forward to that. I have one question. And that is, how many donations have you received so far? It's been the progress.

And the other thing is, fund-raising and building this up, I get this. What's going to be the cost to run this every year? And what are the impacts to the operating budget?

Because I think that is in large part maybe the largest portion of the commitment that the village will make if unless there's other ways There's another way to fund it.

I have a request for a village council meeting. Oh, no, no, no.

We got to go for the village clerk. Anything, Ms. Clerk?

Mr. Attorney? Nothing from me. Mr. McDonald, would you like to do the honors of adjournment?

Not yet. Sorry. I wanted to request if we could have a different date for the July meeting. Oh, wait. July? Yes.

Maybe not. Right now we have it set for the 14th of July. I'm out of the country. I could do the 7th of July if that's an option for everybody else. If not, then I might have to just join virtually or not join at all. It could be otherwise the 28th of July.

No, I'm out of town as well. No, 28th is bad. I knew the 21st.

It's still the same. I'm out of the country. But it's okay. or pre-meeting, but only absences can we have. That's tough, because I'm going to be on a very different time zone. But it's OK. So it doesn't work. July 6 doesn't work. Or 7, I'm sorry. That was the option. But that doesn't seem to work.

No, I think I'll be out of town for the holiday.

And I'm out. You're out, too. I can make it where we've scheduled it. I've sandwiched it, being here between.

OK, we'll leave it as is, and I'll try to join if not be an absence.

Mr. McDonald. It was a motion. Can I second my motion? What, the second leading? Motion to adjourn. Second. All right.

I thought it comes with a seat, right? It's the seat that's to adjourn the meeting.